Latest / High Five Hot Mess Podcast / She Built a Handmade Business… Without Losing Herself|Marci Scharko of Turnrow Bath Body & Home
Transcript
- High Five Hot Mess Podcast: a couple of technical difficulties, nothing two badass GenX ladies can't handle, right? I mean, we're gonna just figure that out and then we're gonna do laundry and then we're gonna finish the dishes and we're gonna come back and do more cool stuff. Like that's just how we roll, right? But I was thinking about this, like with your business, because you're kind of in a renovated barn and we're gonna talk more about that later, but do you have technical difficulties like with your brand? anytime I have to use the computer, it's a technical difficulty. I am not my strong suit at all. Yeah, yesterday we had a whole Wi-Fi outage and cellular service outage in the area. It was affecting everyone for the entire day. I had to go down to Kroger of all places to use their Wi-Fi just so can print off shipping labels so I can keep things moving. I just got to be flexible sometimes. do have to be flexible and you just got to be patient, like patient with yourself. Like I just, I get to this point where I get real worked up and it's not a big deal. I don't know why I panic. Like I panic and get real emotional when it comes to like technical difficulties. Girl, same. Like the computer really does put me over the edge. So a shout out to anybody who can help out with these things because I, ⁓ We need you. you're expensive. I've been looking for help and it costs a lot of money. You deserve it, people. Don't take less than you deserve. But it's definitely been a real challenge. And when you put a podcast out on YouTube, it's like a little mini TV show. So you could spend a lot of time editing. Well, I don't know how to do any of this, man. I'm not a podcaster, you know? So I've been watching so many YouTube videos. I mean, I watch so many YouTube videos over 48 hours. I'm pretty sure I'm Gen Z now, like maybe Gen Alpha, because I have no patience. Like I want it done right now. Like it's like for real, you know, but we, I mean, I'm doing all this because I care about the product. I care about our brand, right? But a lot of that is also like, I've been getting a lot of advice from a lot of different. directions, like everyone's kind of coming in with their own feedback on what they think we should be doing or what it should look like or what it should sound like. And I feel like I'm kind of losing the core, the core heart of what the podcast is supposed to be about. And I know that as an artisan and as a brand developer, you probably had that issue too, right? And if you did, what did it look like? mean, isn't that the truth? That's always the case. You know, you want to keep things. at what you started this for. What was the meaning behind it all? And that's the truth. Also, scaling, it's important to think about that. For me, what do I still want for lifestyle? Because sometimes it's not always about scaling up. Sometimes it's about scaling down, too. It's finding what it is that you... Finding the balance between producing the quality of product or content that you want to produce and also maintaining the lifestyle that you want. And like for me, if I want more freedom and time for travel and whatnot and things that are important like family, I got to keep that in mind. How much do I really want to be doing to keep that balance? Sometimes that looks like scaling up. Sometimes it looks like scaling down. A lot of times it looks like getting help. from people who know more about things than I do. think you got to know when to raise the white flag, right? And be like, all right, this is, I can't figure this out. I need somebody smarter than me to do this. So I should probably let people know what's going on. Hey everybody, welcome to the High Five Hot Mess podcast. My name's Lisa Wilson. I'm with Marcy Sharco, who is the owner, creator, beautiful mind behind Turn Row Bath Body and Home. They have 50 products, which is insane. You've been in your renovated barn, hand making everything, which I just think is so incredibly awesome. And if you haven't seen Marcy on her Instagrams or on her website, I mean, really like she's got this wonderful from scratch brand and product that... So Marcy, when did you realize that this was going to be something bigger than you just making a few candles? or making some soap or like whatever. I'm trying to think of how many years and I think I was, I'd been doing this on the side while I worked full time for the public school system. And when I say on the side, I mean like at nights, evenings, you know, on the weekends and selling, sometimes going to work all day and then going to a market in the evening. It was a very long day, but I did this for a couple of years until it was like, more than just a side hustle. I can pay my mortgage now, you know? And when I started talking to more people that I was working with, especially those that were close to retirement, they were like, oh, honey, please, you should go. Like, if you can do that, you should make that your full-time gig. I'm like, well, I would love to, but you know, there's important things like health insurance and whatnot, you know, that I'm getting from my family. And you know, when I crunched numbers and I found out I could actually afford the healthcare more affordably than I thought. It was like, okay, it's time to just go for it. Just take the leap. And it was scary. mean, because then now it's all on me. I really have to do this. But sometimes that's the push that you need. You need to know it's all on something. So you keep going and you really work through any of those hardships that come up. And so yeah, it's been almost It's been almost 18 years now doing it. Yeah, and I love it. did you have a big startup fund or like, how did you decide to go from like, and why did you start making stuff? Like, what was the origin story? Yeah. So yeah, origin story. was a young mom. 20 years old when I had my daughter and young and pretty broke. Okay, let's be honest, I did not have a career job and funds at that time. when my daughter had some sensitive skin issues coming up and then subsequently our second daughter also had the same like eczema issues and just sensitivities to all kinds of things, we had to look for simpler ingredients. And now back then it was not easy to find. the more natural whole ingredient products on the market were very expensive. And if you couldn't afford that, your other options were cheaper products made with a laundry list of ingredients. And so it's really hard to figure out what's bothering your skin when there's such a long list of possibilities in there. So I met a soap maker that encouraged me that like, it's easier than you think and showed me how to do this. So we made a batch of soap for our own use at home, but even the small batch makes a lot more soap than you really need. My in-laws were farmers. They were going to farmers markets at the time and just invited me to come put a couple of bars out on the table and I could sell it there. It was a really great way to make my money back. My initial investment was very small. I would say less than $50 for ingredients and a stick blender from a thrift store and a container that I could use. stainless steel spoon, you know, like it was very simple. I didn't have a lot of money. I was really putting it all out there. And at that time, it was really nice to find that a lot more people needed what we needed. And that was just like something simple and affordable. And so it's just grown since the beginning because I've taken, I take time to really listen to what people need, what they need, what they want and what I can do. I'm not trying to do it all. And if I don't want to make those things, I will find someone who does do them really well and recommend that. super smart. I mean, so what do you want people to know about you that maybe they wouldn't know from like looking at your website or looking at your products, like the heart behind the brand? I don't know, that I still want to maintain that. Like I want to make products for all the people. I want you to feel like this is something thing that is worth trying and that I'm not just going to make something cheap and quick and we're going to give you a quality product and we're going to do it as affordably as possible. Now that doesn't mean it's always cheap, but it will be, I don't know, responsibly priced, I guess. of the things I think is really cool about you, Marcie, is that you still go in person to all the farmers markets. You still... If someone sends a message or a note to you, you respond personally. And on your Instagrams, it's all you. You really are still so focused on being the face and the person that people see with your brand. And in a day where everyone is automating and AI-ing everything and hitting the easy button so that they can do whatever else in their business, you really seem to focus on making sure that you're the face of the brand. and that people know you and like you feel accountable to that. Yeah, and I do, you know, I really do feel accountable to people who are listening to me and I take that seriously, you know, so I want to provide like the most accurate information that I know and really show like a true behind the scenes. This is us making everything because we are in a time where there's a lot of there's a lot of maker sites out there and there's a lot more resources to do this kind of thing at home and for people to make things and So with that comes a time where we hit a point where we need to learn a little more because it's right there, but we don't always know. So sometimes we think something is homemade and it could just be from a base that's already created and you're just melting it down and mixing things in. Well, that is still a little homemade. A good bit of that is also not made from scratch. And so do you know what all is in those bases? So these things are just like good to know and good to see that like from our standpoint, when we're making something, we're making it from individual ingredients mixed together to make that whole base. Like everything comes from a recipe we've created and we've mixed it all from scratch. So that way, you know, if there is something in there that you can't use, like we're gonna have that listed on a label and we're also gonna be available for you to talk to. We're really, really big on people knowing. what's in their product. We will never use like proprietary wind on something. don't like to hide ingredients. ⁓ I really, it's really important that people can reach out and talk to an actual person. And I think that's something we're missing, you know? I think people want that now. We really do. And it's so available because there's so many people that are making great things. And if we all support the small businesses that are doing this, like, man, we could have something great. mean, we can have everything will be batched. Like, one of the things that I appreciate about you so much, I can reach you, like I can send you an email on your website. Like, for example, I'm running low on my smoked sage candle, which I absolutely love. burn it like 24 seven right now when I'm working on the pod, right? And so I messaged you. And I was like, hey, and you're like, well, we're out, but let me see what I can do to help you find something that will meet that sage need that you have. I mean, that just, means a lot, right? Like you're not going to get that, that approach, that best friend vibe, right? I have a best friend in the product business from like a large scale retailer. And I just think it's so great that you haven't lost that. See, that's great. I love to hear that because I do want to be your best friend in the product business. Yeah. For sure. So have you recently, I mean, again, like I'm sure that this happens all the time, but have you created a product where you're like, yeah, this wasn't a winner? Like I didn't really, I thought it was like such a great concept. Cause and I'm saying this selfishly, cause I've had that a lot happen where I've thought something was going to be so great. And then in the execution, it's like, ⁓ like didn't work. Do you have that in your business? Yes, I've had a lot of them. So everything is trial and error when it comes to building a recipe. It comes with like trying it, trying it, trying it again. It needs to be consistently good before we send that out. And being that I chose to use like all natural botanicals and things for colorants, I've had a lot of learning on that note, like making soap beetroot is not going to give you a beet-tea colored red. No, no, it'll turn brown. it'll look like you made a Tootsie Roll, okay? Like, so not as beautifully charming and natural as you think. Like, so some things have really been trial and error and I've learned to make a lot smaller batches when I'm trying something new because you just never know. Yeah, a lot of emulsifications have separated and now I have products that are just two things. There's the water, there's the oil. It does not want to harmoniously mix. mean, so do you have any stories where like something happened in the barn where you're like, all right, this was, it just went all went sideways. Is there anything else like that? I mean, I've definitely made my mistakes and I make the point to anybody new who comes to work for me in production. Like, just, just know that there's going to be a time where you mess up a whole batch of something and that's okay. I'm already expecting it. I've done it. I still do it now. Even almost 20 years in, I can still mess something up. We can still get too tired and skip an ingredient and realize, ⁓ no, I've thrown the whole batch off. I have filled my wax melter one night. This holds about 50 pounds of wax and you can set it to the temp you need it and it'll hold it. It will hold it endlessly. It could stay on for weeks, for days. and hold that wax, right? So that's really important for me. So I thought, here I am going to get ahead of myself and be ready to roll in the morning. I'm going to come out and have all this wax ready to go. And I filled up the melter, turned it on and went to bed. When I came out in the morning, it looked like I had an ice skating rink. My entire shop was filled with wax on the floor. because all night I had left the spout open and didn't realize it and it was just leaking wax, melted wax all out on the floor. And now I have to clean up 50 pounds of this milk. I can see this. I can see it in my mind and I'm already like overwhelmed. Like so the whole floor of the barn is covered in like probably a nice gross layer of wax. I think thin slick is shit layer of wax. Not only do I have a mess to clean up, but I have like an OSHA incident if I'm not careful. like, okay guys, we're going to walk real slow. Exactly. And like scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape. But you just, you got past it, right? You were just like, all right, we're just going to make the best of this situation and keep moving. What can you do? Sometimes you got to be flexible. You just got to be flexible. do have to be flexible, especially when people are counting on you like that. You just got to keep the boat rowing, which is not always as easy as we make it look. Part of what we do in our podcast is we take these moments, these crazy moments that we all have every single day and we just find the positives in every situation. In part of doing that, we have this thing that we do that's called the high five hunt, which is we try to remember the like, turn down the noise, turn down, you know, the emotion of our week to make sure we focus on things that gave us a high five, right? Like that high five moment that we had that week and we like to talk about it. And you are my high five this week, like a hundred percent for one, cause you're here, which I selfishly wanted you to come because I really wanted to. tell you how in love I am with this new product that you have. So I ordered some candles from you and in my candle box I got a little teeny tiny vial of the Glow Serum. And you had just done an Instagram story where literally like you're like sparkling like diamonds and you're like, look at this new serum. It's amazing. And I'm like, I want that. That's what this is. I'm going to try it. And like normally my skin is really sensitive. And I get these little red rashes when I put stuff on it, it doesn't like it. You can't really see them. It's just like under the skin bumps. I don't know if that makes sense. And, but I was like, all right, I'm going to try it. So I started using the little tiny vial. And as someone who has been like two inches from my screen, editing podcast videos, like nonstop, I can tell you that like my skin looks so much better. after I had just used it for like a week. You could see the difference from one week to the next. And that made me buy the largest bottle that you had. I absolutely loved it. And I just, I've got it right here. I'm just going to show everybody. This is not a paid ad. Like I'm just, I'm here to tell you that like I ripped this package open like it was Christmas morning. Like I was so excited to get this serum. Like you guys, is really, it's awesome. It's not that expensive, like comparatively. So are you hearing a lot about this serum from your other customers? Because if they're like, I don't know what they're missing if you're not. am because I created that originally just for my daughter who has rosacea and some other friends that have skin sensitivities and redness and may feel like they need a little help with some wrinkles or whatnot. And so we made that originally just for ourselves and we're using it and they're like, This is really nice. I need you to make this all the time." So I put that out and found that there's so many different people and different skin types and different issues have come back and said like, wow, this is really working for me and I love it. And now it's to the point where I will see... Usually it's a guy with a cell phone in his face and he's looking a little confused like, where am I supposed to be? need to find this thing and then... say, do you have this? And show me what he's like. Yeah, you're in the right place, man. Okay, so his wife, his sister, his brother's cousin, his neighbor has all sent him to come down and buy a bottle of glow serum for each of them. it has become a real bestseller kind of cult favorite because it works for so many different skin types. And I just love it. I love it for that. It's really easy. And that is kind of my thing. That's my Jan is just like an easy... product. I want something that can do more than one thing. And so that's just going to give you your moisture and treatment all in one. And it's really easy to use. And it's really simple, whole ingredients that you can read. I mean, it is awesome. I absolutely love it. And I needed a serum as well because I just I was told I looked very dehydrated from my aesthetician who gave me the business about it, but this serum was just, it's magical, like glowy, glowy goodness, magical. So thank you for making that. I appreciate it. You had mentioned that you made it for your kids. So are your kids involved in your business? Do you guys work together or? Well, growing up, they helped for sure. They would help with... ⁓ making things. Sometimes they would help me with selling a lot. They're great at selling at the farmers market. They're really great at all that. Now that they're older, they have their own separate jobs and sometimes they still come back and help me sell. But ⁓ my oldest daughter, she now has her own business and she's a flower farmer. She and her boyfriend own a flower farm and it's really, really cool because they sell at the same markets that I do. Some they sell at markets that not, we're not in the same place, but the ones that we are, we're side by side. So that's really fun. And we still get to have that kind of vibe of like, if I step away, you can fill in for me and sell at the booth and vice versa. I can always jump in and help them out as well. So it's just still really fun. I cannot wait to see all the flower farm stuff that's coming up, cause it's flower time, right? I'm sure. So I'll be watching your Instagram for that. I think it's totally cool. I love it. So did you have any high fives this week? Like what is your high five moment this week? mean, other than being on a podcast, which is great. I haven't done this before. I always love doing new things. But I also got asked by a friend who had an extra ticket to the Ren Fair Renaissance Festival. Do know what that is? Yes, I know what a Ren Fair is. I've only been once before and it was like many, many, many years ago. So I kind of forgot what it was about and I went and it was so much fun. It was like a bring your pet to the Ren Fair day. So that made it even more fun. Like people were dressed up and they had dogs that were dressed up, a couple of cats and a tortoise. So saw that. So like it was really fun. that's two turtles. Yeah, two turtles this week. That's right. We've seen turtles. So what does it mean? Yeah. I saw a turtle this week and I was like, so I have this whole nature saga going on where it's like the universe is talking to me and I'm like, I don't know what it means. But then I got a clear sign this week. I was standing out in my backyard, like touching some grass, you know what I mean? Just needed a moment. And I look out in my backyard and there is like a gigantic turtle, like hauling ass across the grass. And I was like, What is this? Like what? You just never see it, right? And I'm like, okay, universe, what? So I come in and I look it up and it's me. And then I had, called Lisa Smith and she looked it up as well. And we confirmed it is a sign that you need to keep going. Like, and if you see it near water, it means to dig in and keep going. So I was like, okay. Like that could apply to a lot of points in my life right now, but I thought it was very cool. is cool. You, I've heard some of your stories. You really do have the animal encounters over there. Never before, never before this year, not before the last, like, like I want to say the last 60 days have just, it's just been wild and nothing has been, nothing has come to conclusion. So I'm not like all these different things out in my universe that I have going on, like nothing's been resolved. So I'm just kind of like. We'll find out, right? But along the lines of that high five for the Ren Fair, I just think that's awesome and so much fun. And I just want to go to a Ren Fair so bad. I just think it would be awesome. I love it. So as far as the whole wellness stuff. Do we have what we, we have a, make your own happiness board where we kind of track all these different wellness things. And basically we have goals. Lisa's is to find peace. is to be blissfully happy. And this board is kind of like our vision board for making those goals happen. But we got asked a question that kind of made us rethink everything, which I thought was really cool. And so now I'm asking all of my guests this question. So I'm going to ask you. So. If a genie showed up today, it's like mercy. You can have whatever you want. What is it? What would you wish for? Man, so many things. Stay, so many things that you wish for. I know, I think I would really love the ability to be able to travel more and still have things running here while I'm traveling. to be able to see more. And it's not just for the sake of travel. Like I really love to kind of dig in and like see what other people's worlds are like. What is the everyday rituals and celebrations and just what is life like in other places? What do the stars look like somewhere else? know, like it's just being more present and aware outside of my everyday. And I just would love to be able to see more places. Yeah, I think that, I mean, look, we all, the more we know, the better we become, right? I've been very lucky. I've traveled a lot, but I think it's something that's given me a real perspective on like what I, what I, it shapes your world, right? It shapes what you love and what you don't love. Travel is the best thing ever. I wish that everybody could travel. So yeah, I'll throw that into my wish bucket as well. The goal is to travel. The goal is to stay true to your brand. The goal is to keep like not overscale, but just scale just enough, right? To make sure that you're happy, right? And you feel fulfilled as a creator and as a brand developer and as an artisan. So what is something about running your business that people probably wouldn't know? Like about, about the challenges of running your business or the joys of running your business. think the real joy of running my business is getting to create my schedule, you know, and if I want to take some time in the morning to have a cup of coffee and walk around and look at all of my flowers, which is what I do every day. ⁓ I need that to get started, you know? So I can make those times accordingly, like everybody come in at this time, because I need a chance to walk around my yard, take in the coffee and feed my little outside feral cat. And that's how I my day started. I love it. to ease into things. as much as we go, go, go, and I've worked really tired late nights, I am not an early morning person, but I do work with my employees. And if they are, then I just say, go on out there, you know what to do, get started. That's so important that you've built yourself a support structure with your team. And they're a big part of your brand and of your culture, right? Within for turn roe back body and home. And I just, I love that for you. and it's like, what would you think is like the secret to that? Like, how do you think you manage that when so many people out there do not? I think it's also my curiosity for people and just learning more about each individual because it takes time. You really do need to get to know the people who work for you and really show that appreciation. I could not do the things that I do without their help. And I make a point to tell them as often as possible that I really appreciate them, glad they're here, I feel lucky to have them. And I that goes a long way. And also listening, just listening and hearing when someone, just because they might be good at something, doesn't mean they want to do it all the time, you know? So finding a way to strike that balance. And if someone feels a little worn out, having done the same thing for a while, then it's time to move around. And it's always great to get to know all the roles that make the whole machine work, you know, because it goes a long way when we can understand what someone else is doing and appreciate that they're doing that. If that's not the thing that's for me, I'm really glad that they're here and that they are doing it and that we have an appreciation for all of the roles, kind of like when we were talking about the tech help. Like, it's just, good to know what it takes to do that because that really confirms for me that I don't want that job. And when someone else is doing it, I'm really appreciative that they're doing it. Over time, you know, of having maybe bad bosses or a job where I don't feel appreciated enough or overworked, I've decided I just don't want to be that boss. ⁓ it's so hard when it's personal and it's your, your livelihood, your brand, your creation, right? It's so hard, at least for me, I really struggle with not everybody is going to be as excited about this as you are, right? So how do you temper that in a way that gets people to be like, yeah, no, I'm excited to be here, this is great, and not like, oh my God, here she comes again. How do you do that? It really does feel like a fine line, like a balance, you know? But I think that's just it. The more you put it out there, be you. Be as excited as you are about it because there's going to be people that are as excited about it. And the more it's out there, the more they can find you. And so I know that's got to be a challenge for your line of work as well. Just got to get out there. I know I love to listen to your podcast. When I'm working, I love to listen. You guys have a great delivery. It feels like I'm listening to friends. talking, you know, and it's usually about something that also is relevant in my life. So that's really nice to hear. It's great. I really enjoy listening to podcasts while we work. I love it. So if someone's listening right now and they've been sitting on this idea or they make this one thing that they really like making, but they don't know how they would scale it up for a business or they don't know where they would start, like What would be your advice to a baby business person? ⁓ Definitely get to know who you're selling to. It's really important. Know your customer base and if that matches up because sometimes we enjoy making something, but do we have the audience for it? Do we have a customer base nearby that will buy that? You do have to have those things kind of aligned. know what people need, know what they want and how to reach them. And if you can get those things to match up, you probably are going to have success. think that's great advice. So do your research and don't be afraid to try. That would be my advice as well. Right? Absolutely. Don't be afraid to try. But one of the things I definitely wanted to talk about that we love, but is that your brand, especially in a time where everyone is scaling up super quickly and everyone is automating, like customer service is automated. Their ordering process is automated. There's no human in the loop in a lot of these large-scale production environments. Whereas with your brand, one of the things I love that kind of still just was like, ⁓ this is nice. You still handwrite all your notes, right? I do, yeah. I like to include a handwritten thank you. And maybe there will be a day where it's not feasible, but I'm going to sure try until I... until I can't anymore. you had a number of how many handwritten notes you do like a month or a year, would you have that number? Do you have an idea? I don't know, enough that my hand hurts sometimes, so that's nice. I can appreciate that. If my hand's cramping up from writing thank you notes that day, I'm like, that's not the worst thing in the world. You know, I'm grateful. I am grateful for every note I have to write. I loved your handwritten note. Like it really took me back for a minute. So I was like, Because sometimes it looks like it's handwritten, you know? And I order things from Etsy a lot, where I know that the person that signed that note is not the person that I ordered the product from. Because you can just tell in the things that they say or the way it's disjointed. But when I got your note, was like, she legit wrote this to me. And I felt very special. Well, if it's a friend or someone I know that's ordered, then I do love to be like, hi friend, it's great to see you here. Because it's true. I just like to keep that real. I would love to receive a package and also say, hey, how have you been? And it's the same if I have long time customers and I see their name pop up multiple times, like to include that, good to see you here. So happy to have you. mean, again, when everyone else is hitting that easy button, it's real easy to... to figure out ways that you could do less, but instead you're staying true to your brand and staying true to your customer. like your core part of this whole thing was that you wanted to help people and you wanted to provide something that they needed through what you made, which I just think is amazing. And I mean, I feel like that probably touches a little bit on like what you're doing as well. You're providing this like great entertainment, but also like this real moment where we get to connect and you're like, yeah, you're also thinking these things. You're also feeling these things and having these moments, like, cause you're not alone on the self doubt. Like, and it creeps in all the time. Like it creeps in even if you've been doing something for a long time. But in a way it's almost like when I feel that little twinge, you know, I'm like, it's a reminder that like, I'm learning something new and, I need to keep going. And also, a reminder that I have felt these things before and moved past it. You know, it's not the first time. It's not the first time. It's not going to be the last time you're feeling it. And it's going to be great when you get to look back at the early stages and go like, wow, look at how far we've come. It's one of those things that it's, set a timeline where we're like, okay, we're going to do this for this much time and then we'll see how we're doing. But it's that, like I spoke to a friend, like, I don't know if you have mentors in your business and people that you talk to that you're like, okay, when I grew up, this is who I want to be, right? Or if you're that person, you probably are that person for a lot of people. But they were like, yeah, I never even looked at our statistics for the first year. We never even looked at it. And I was like, how do you not look at it? And I've tried. I have tried to not look at the views and not look at the likes, but... Holy crap, like I don't think I'll ever be that person, right? So how did you, with your brand, like, and you've been like, okay, I'm gonna get past this, I'm gonna work past it. And I'm interested to hear how you still have these moments, even as successful as you are, how you still have these moments that kind of happen, where you're like, ⁓ maybe I'm not doing this right or. ⁓ my gosh, I mean, especially when it comes to this like social media work, that is not something that I grew up doing. and so it doesn't come. And I'm also not on it all the time. So I don't think about doing this every day. But in a business, I kind of need to. I still don't do it nearly enough as I probably should be doing it. And I'm definitely making myself do it more often now, like making videos, reels, posts, whatnot. And then I have to just really humble myself. Man, I am talking to all five of you right now. not be a big crowd and it's going to be fine because one day maybe it'll be 10, then it'll be 20, and it's just going to be what it is. But if I don't get out there and just make a crazy, even if it's just like a cringy whatever post, I got to start somewhere. And I know that when I look back a year or two later, it's going to change and I'm going to be like, wow, I really learned a lot and I've grown and my posts are getting better. But definitely, I don't want to compare myself too much because then it becomes, it just kind of steals the joy out of it. But it's hard, you know, and of course you still look at ⁓ those stats. Like you've got to if you're running a business and I don't know how to work the algorithms. really don't. Someone else has got to be better at that than me. But I'm trying to put myself out there more and just do it. Just do the thing, even if I'm not great at it. Like I will be one day. I think that is what's really cool about getting to peruse something like social media now is getting to actually watch people in their real lives. We have some overdone moments where you can tell it's overdone, but some of the most genuine content is just seeing people make their mistakes and also see them win, just genuinely having real life moments. I do want to share more of that. think that's really like... You might feel the same with your podcast. know, it's like, just, it's about real life moments. To get used to asking for help more, you know, I think it just goes back to like the whole Gen X thing too. Like it just don't, I don't think to do it, but I will give that advice real easily to other people. Like, don't be afraid to ask for help. I say this a lot, you know, I have to take my own advice sometimes. I mean, we both do, we both do, right? But, um, I just, it's just always so interesting talking to somebody who is where you hope to one day be, right? And I think that you can always like learn a lot from their journey. And I'm so grateful that you took the time to talk to us this week and you know, like technical difficulties be damned. Like we will figure all of this out on our own and make sure that we can see you in the podcast and that we can hear you. ⁓ We've had a couple of near misses, so we're going to make sure that hopefully we get it all worked out. But I just genuinely love your brand and I love you. And I think that anything that we can do to get you out there in the community and the world at large is going to be a good thing and leave the world better than we found it. ⁓ thank you. That's really sweet. I really appreciate it. All right, you guys, that's it. That's our episode this week. If you are watching us on YouTube, please make sure you hit subscribe. And if you're listening to us on Apple, please make sure that you share our episode because that's how we grow on Apple. And with that, you guys have a wonderful week. We'll talk to you later. Bye.