Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Lessons learnt from 10 years as a wedding photographer - with Sam Gavins

Transcript

Lessons learnt from 10 years as a wedding photographer - with Sam Gavins · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

• 0:00
  Sam: I'm still learning.
• 0:02
  And that's where the Wedding Pro Members Club has been absolutely invaluable
• 0:07
  because all the information that you give out to us, I just absorb like a sponge.
• 0:14
  So that's, that's been really, the business side was quite
• 0:18
  a big hurdle, definitely.
• 0:22
  Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business, marketing expert,
• 0:24
  speaker, and blogger, and you're listening to the wedding pros
• 0:27
  who are ready to grow podcast.
• 0:29
  I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
• 0:33
  examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
• 0:36
  If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
• 0:40
  and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what you
• 0:43
  love, then you're in the right place.
• 0:45
  Let's get going with today's episode.
• 0:49
  Today I'm chatting with Winchester based wedding photographer Sam Gavins.
• 0:52
  I've been working with Sam over the last few years and I've loved
• 0:55
  watching her and her business bloom and grow over that time.
• 0:59
  Sam describes herself as a fitness lover and coffee connoisseur and she
• 1:02
  really values documenting moments and memories through her photos.
• 1:06
  She's a fab photographer and she even captured some images of me on stage
• 1:09
  recently which I'm super thankful for.
• 1:11
  Sam, welcome to the podcast!
• 1:13
  Sam: Hi Becca, how are you?
• 1:16
  Becca: I'm very good.
• 1:16
  I'm so excited to have you on.
• 1:19
  I absolutely love more than anything chatting to my members on the podcast
• 1:24
  because I think that's what people really like hearing the real stories behind
• 1:28
  the real people and the real businesses.
• 1:29
  So thank you for agreeing to do this.
• 1:31
  Pleasure.
• 1:32
  Okay, let's get started then with going right to the start because
• 1:35
  I think often people's journeys.
• 1:38
  best when we understand where you've come from.
• 1:40
  So just let me know, how did you get into photography in the first place?
• 1:45
  Is it something you've always done or did you work in other areas first?
• 1:48
  Sam: Yeah,
• 1:48
  it's sort of one of those cliches really.
• 1:50
  I've always, always loved photography.
• 1:53
  I remember having my first camera when I was about eight years old,
• 1:56
  having a little Instamatic and then I did O level, that shows how old
• 2:01
  I am, but I did O level photography at school and we had a darkroom.
• 2:06
  Which was great.
• 2:07
  So I would be able to experience photographing and then
• 2:12
  developing, which was wonderful.
• 2:14
  And then when I finished my O Levels, my, I remember going up to my
• 2:20
  bedroom thinking, Oh, it's all over.
• 2:22
  It's great.
• 2:23
  That's wonderful.
• 2:24
  And it was on my bed.
• 2:26
  I saw this box and it was an SLR camera.
• 2:29
  So that was the first proper camera that I had.
• 2:33
  And that was from my parents and they didn't have a lot of money.
• 2:38
  They worked really, really hard just to pay the bills.
• 2:41
  And that was such a special thing to have.
• 2:44
  This camera on my bed and it went from there, really, it was a really,
• 2:49
  really lovely hobby, a passion that's just grown into my business.
• 2:53
  So
• 2:54
  Becca: I love that.
• 2:55
  I love it when people really know what they love really early on.
• 2:58
  And it sounds like all along you've loved taking photos at that point though.
• 3:02
  Did you ever think that it could be something that could turn into a career,
• 3:05
  something you can make money from, or did you just think it would always be a hobby?
• 3:08
  Sam: I don't think I really looked further ahead than it being a hobby.
• 3:12
  I mean, I was.
• 3:14
  I trained as a nurse, so I definitely didn't think about training as, or
• 3:19
  being a photographer, or doing any, any further education with photography.
• 3:24
  It was just something that I really enjoyed doing.
• 3:26
  So yeah, no, it was, it was later on that.
• 3:30
  way later on that that happened.
• 3:32
  Becca: Okay, so let's talk then about that way later on.
• 3:35
  So you've just said you trained as a nurse, very different to photography.
• 3:38
  So how did you end up going from being a nurse to being a
• 3:42
  photographer, which you are now?
• 3:43
  Sam: Well, I had a bit of a gap.
• 3:45
  I had four children and then I I remember thinking, At that point, I was
• 3:51
  photographing friends parties, doing loads of photographs of my children, and
• 3:57
  just loved documenting everything that was going on in our lives at the time.
• 4:01
  And I think somebody just said to me, because I always had my camera at
• 4:04
  parties, and they, somebody said to me, well, you should do this as a business.
• 4:09
  And at that point, I just, I think I doubted myself.
• 4:13
  I, I didn't really think that I could.
• 4:16
  charge people money.
• 4:18
  I mean, that was for something that I loved doing.
• 4:20
  You know, I had real imposter syndrome problems at that point, but yeah,
• 4:26
  I just thought about it a bit more.
• 4:29
  I did certain things to make it happen and.
• 4:33
  And ten years later, here I am.
• 4:36
  So it's great.
• 4:37
  Becca: I think that's a really common theme actually, people feeling like
• 4:39
  just because you enjoy something, that you shouldn't charge for it.
• 4:42
  It doesn't feel like work, so therefore I shouldn't charge for it.
• 4:45
  Obviously at some point you made a decision that it was
• 4:48
  okay to charge for something.
• 4:49
  Do you remember getting your first paying client, your first paying wedding?
• 4:53
  Sam: Yeah, I do.
• 4:54
  And I remember talking to the clients and saying, I've second shot at weddings.
• 4:59
  before, not very many, to be honest, and she, she was so, they were so lovely.
• 5:05
  They just said, well, somebody has to start somewhere, sorry,
• 5:08
  everyone has to start somewhere.
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  And I just charged her very bare minimum, but it was like, well, it's amazing.
• 5:16
  I 200 pounds or something.
• 5:19
  And I remember being so nervous, being awake most of the night,
• 5:24
  going over everything I had to do.
• 5:28
  Actually, it all went perfectly well, and they were, they were such a lovely couple.
• 5:33
  And I, I'll always remember them and be really thankful to them for that.
• 5:37
  Becca: And so how did they find you?
• 5:38
  Were they friends of a friend?
• 5:39
  Where did they, that first client come from?
• 5:41
  I think I put,
• 5:42
  Sam: I put a mess, I put a post on Facebook asking if anybody
• 5:48
  was getting married, saying I was new, and she came back to me.
• 5:52
  So that was really lovely.
• 5:54
  She's, she's from Winchester.
• 5:56
  I bump into her sometimes and she realizes she still follows me on Instagram.
• 6:01
  Becca: I love that and everyone has to start somewhere, right?
• 6:04
  But she got an absolute bargain because I assume that you are, and I hope the
• 6:09
  answer is no, you are no longer only charging 200 for wedding photography.
• 6:15
  Sam: No, no.
• 6:17
  I'm not.
• 6:19
  Becca: Good.
• 6:19
  So you did that first wedding, you got a bit of confidence.
• 6:22
  So then what?
• 6:23
  Did you start taking it more seriously?
• 6:24
  Did you up your prices?
• 6:27
  What was the next phase of that journey?
• 6:29
  Sam: Well, I really felt that I needed some, some formal education,
• 6:33
  although I'd done O level photography, I hadn't been to uni to do it, I
• 6:37
  didn't do a photography degree.
• 6:40
  I did an online course which was a diploma and that was sort of something
• 6:47
  that I could pick up and drop when I, when I, when I needed to because
• 6:52
  of time factors and family factors.
• 6:55
  And I, I did that over a year.
• 6:58
  And also just the amount of YouTube videos, workshops that I did, I just
• 7:04
  did as much as possible to try and get myself up to the level that I
• 7:09
  needed to be confident, I think.
• 7:12
  I mean, I might have always had the, the eye and the artistic side of it,
• 7:16
  but it was, again, I wanted to be able to say to people, I've, I can do this
• 7:23
  and this is what I'm charging you.
• 7:24
  It was about that imposter syndrome again.
• 7:27
  I don't have that anymore.
• 7:28
  It's okay.
• 7:29
  That's gone.
• 7:31
  Becca: Good.
• 7:31
  I'm glad that you don't have that anymore.
• 7:33
  So let's go right up to present day then.
• 7:35
  Where would you say now, when you look over the years, where do you think most
• 7:39
  of your couples come from at this point?
• 7:43
  Sam: Definitely word of mouth.
• 7:45
  I have a lovely couple that I'm still friends with.
• 7:48
  They've just had a baby recently actually.
• 7:50
  And for example, they had a big group of friends and over the last few
• 7:56
  years, I've just been photographing the whole group of friends.
• 8:00
  It's been great fun.
• 8:02
  So I see everybody again at another wedding.
• 8:04
  And I also did, this year I did her sister's wedding.
• 8:08
  So people just refer me, which is really nice.
• 8:13
  Yeah.
• 8:13
  Becca: And that's a good confidence boost as well, right?
• 8:15
  Because if they, they must like the photos from their friend's wedding, otherwise
• 8:18
  they wouldn't trust you to do it again.
• 8:20
  Sam: Yeah.
• 8:20
  Yeah, definitely.
• 8:22
  Yeah.
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  And I do, I do get really nice feedback from just people saying,
• 8:27
  Oh, we liked having you there.
• 8:29
  You were calming influence.
• 8:31
  You didn't get flustered.
• 8:34
  Those sort of things, which is, which is nice to hear.
• 8:37
  I'm just being me, right?
• 8:38
  You know, I'm just, I don't really try to be like that.
• 8:43
  It's just how I am.
• 8:46
  Becca: Well, that's all that we can be is just be ourselves and
• 8:49
  the right people will find us.
• 8:50
  So I think it's interesting in the wedding industry, because a lot of times people
• 8:52
  say it's a difficult industry because we can't get repeat business because
• 8:56
  often people only get married once.
• 8:57
  And even if they get married twice, they're not going to use the same people.
• 9:00
  But actually, when we are a good person, and we do do a good job, we do get
• 9:04
  repeat business, but from the friends and family at the weddings, that's a common
• 9:08
  story, which is why it's important for everyone listening to remember, like.
• 9:12
  Just go out there, be nice to everyone in the wedding party because you don't
• 9:15
  know who's getting married next and as we know in life, often, as you've just
• 9:19
  experienced, groups of friends get married over and over again between each other
• 9:24
  over the next kind of 2, years and there's lots of work out there for the taking.
• 9:29
  So when you look back over your 10 years of photography, what do
• 9:34
  you think have been some of the biggest struggles along the way?
• 9:38
  Sam: Well, my initial huge struggle was having kit that I could afford.
• 9:44
  And I remember a really good friend of mine runs a film business
• 9:50
  and they had the same lenses.
• 9:53
  So I'd bought the bodies, which I had to sort of Use from
• 9:58
  savings or buy from savings.
• 10:00
  And every time I needed to do a shoot, I, they lent me these,
• 10:05
  the lenses, which was amazing.
• 10:08
  The only drawback that became was that obviously they needed them.
• 10:12
  So I couldn't really plan far ahead.
• 10:15
  So I just had to.
• 10:17
  keep plugging away until I'd raised enough money to buy, to buy them
• 10:21
  myself.
• 10:22
  So that was the first hurdle.
• 10:25
  I think that the biggest hurdle for me having no business background
• 10:30
  was the business side of it, you know, which I'm still learning.
• 10:35
  And that's where the Wedding Pro Members Club has, has been
• 10:39
  absolutely invaluable because all the information that you give out to us.
• 10:45
  I just absorbed like a sponge.
• 10:47
  So that's that's been really The business side was quite a big hurdle.
• 10:53
  Becca: I think that's true for a lot of people.
• 10:55
  I mean, it's why I'm so passionate about doing what I do and why it keeps me
• 10:59
  going, because actually, you know, there are a lot of people out there who are
• 11:02
  incredible at what they do, taking photos, making flower arrangements, making cakes.
• 11:07
  I'm terrible at all of those things, but.
• 11:09
  You know, they're not, they're not necessarily business owners.
• 11:13
  And when you go into this world of self employment, you think,
• 11:15
  yeah, that's, that's easy.
• 11:16
  I could just take photos and I'm good at taking photos, but actually we
• 11:19
  forget all of the other things that are involved, like from the marketing
• 11:23
  to the finance, to the insurance, like it is an absolute minefield.
• 11:29
  I also love what you said about not having the money at the start,
• 11:32
  because I think that's a real, real struggle that people have, because at
• 11:35
  the end of the day, business, we do have to invest into our businesses.
• 11:38
  Before in order for them to grow, but that can be difficult.
• 11:42
  So I love that you were borrowing equipment.
• 11:44
  I love that you've been really honest about that.
• 11:45
  And often I see people doing things like they'll, you know, they get
• 11:49
  their booking in and then they'll buy the next piece of equipment
• 11:51
  because that's how we have to live.
• 11:54
  At the start.
• 11:55
  So thank you for your honesty in that.
• 11:58
  Now you mentioned the Wedding Pro Members Lounge.
• 11:59
  One of the questions I wanted to ask you really was why you think it's
• 12:03
  important to keep on investing in your own education, in your own learning,
• 12:08
  in your own community and what benefits those things have bought your business?
• 12:13
  Sam: Yeah, I think it's really, it can be really easy to become complacent and just
• 12:19
  carry on doing exactly the same thing.
• 12:22
  As you've always done, and one of the things you always advocate is
• 12:27
  to, for us to go out of our comfort zones, which is what I'm doing now.
• 12:32
  This is just so out of my comfort zone.
• 12:35
  And when I saw you last, I had had a glass of wine, but only one.
• 12:41
  And I said, yeah, yeah, okay, I'll do a podcast.
• 12:44
  But I think if you hadn't have encouraged that, I wouldn't, I would just.
• 12:48
  I'd be doing what I normally, I'd be sitting here editing now, I wouldn't
• 12:52
  be doing a podcast with you, so.
• 12:54
  And I think, yeah, that's quite important to stretch yourself, however
• 13:00
  many bookings you have or however good you've become, you know, it's just to
• 13:07
  keep stretching yourself and do things out of your comfort zone, definitely.
• 13:11
  Becca: I'm glad that you've agreed to do this and you're stretching
• 13:14
  out of your comfort zone.
• 13:14
  And it's true, we need someone in our corner sometimes just encouraging us
• 13:18
  and saying, yeah, you can do this.
• 13:21
  Just, just don't hide away.
• 13:22
  Get out there, meet people, get in front of venues, all of those
• 13:25
  things and come on the podcast, Sam, because you won't regret it.
• 13:28
  I promise.
• 13:29
  I promise you won't regret it.
• 13:30
  It's great to have you here.
• 13:31
  And I'm glad you're here sharing your story with us.
• 13:35
  Now, I just mentioned about venues, so let's, let's stick with that because
• 13:38
  again, one of the things that I know we've talked about over the last few
• 13:41
  years is, you know, how do you get on these recommended supplier lists?
• 13:44
  How do you get in front of venues?
• 13:46
  How do these things happen?
• 13:47
  And I know because we've talked about it over the last couple of years,
• 13:50
  you have got on some of those lists.
• 13:52
  So as a photographer, it's difficult to do that.
• 13:55
  What do you think has helped you in order to get on the list that you have?
• 13:59
  Sam: A couple have been really easy and some haven't.
• 14:03
  So the ones that haven't.
• 14:05
  I think what I've done is, is to offer them something.
• 14:10
  So, chatted to them about them and got to know the, the wedding events coordinators
• 14:18
  when I've done weddings there.
• 14:20
  And just, even just do things, or even say when you're there, is
• 14:27
  there anything I can do to help?
• 14:28
  I've got a bit of a lull here.
• 14:30
  You know, is there anything that I can do to to help you today.
• 14:34
  I've offered to photograph the venues as well if they need anything for marketing.
• 14:41
  One of the venues, I actually photographed a baby shower for one
• 14:47
  of their It was actually one of their staff, so and I didn't charge, so
• 14:52
  that was sort of my gift to them.
• 14:56
  And I think it's been really just helping them, just so
• 15:00
  it's a two way thing, really.
• 15:02
  Becca: Absolutely.
• 15:03
  Perseverance and Offering to do something for them.
• 15:06
  Two things that I talk a lot about, and I'm glad that that's
• 15:10
  the way you've been going and it does work, but it does take time.
• 15:13
  It does take time, but also it's surprising how few people do actually
• 15:18
  have that approach to think, you know, I will go and I'll offer to do something
• 15:22
  to help them, but it does work and I'm glad that it's working for you.
• 15:27
  And I know that that's.
• 15:28
  That's been a successful strategy for you.
• 15:30
  So keep going with that.
• 15:31
  Keep going with that.
• 15:32
  And if you're listening to this and you're feeling disheartened,
• 15:35
  listen to what Sam's just said.
• 15:36
  It's about perseverance, keeping going, not giving up, and just keep
• 15:40
  being a good person and keep offering.
• 15:42
  See what you can do to help them.
• 15:43
  And those things will come back in kind.
• 15:46
  They always do eventually.
• 15:48
  Now, Sam, we know that Running a business can be an emotional rollercoaster.
• 15:52
  Every single one of us has moments where we love our business.
• 15:55
  Every single one of us has moments when we hate our business and want to quit.
• 15:58
  Every one of us has moments where we feel like we're really successful
• 16:01
  than other days where we feel like no one wants to book us.
• 16:04
  So through that journey over the last 10 years, what things have
• 16:08
  kept you going and kept you in the world of wedding photography?
• 16:12
  Sam: Gosh, that's a really difficult question.
• 16:15
  Because it's, for me, not at one point have I felt like I wanted
• 16:20
  to give up, which is a really lucky thing to feel, I think.
• 16:26
  I mean, when, probably earlier on, I used to feel, Oh, maybe I'm not,
• 16:31
  you know, maybe I'm not good enough.
• 16:33
  I'd have, I'd have doubts, but I just really enjoyed what I did.
• 16:39
  And I think I really enjoy being with people.
• 16:42
  So that was always a good thing to have.
• 16:46
  Can you repeat the question, please?
• 16:48
  Becca: So through your business, things have been up, things have been
• 16:52
  down, sometimes we find things easy, sometimes we find things difficult.
• 16:56
  What things have kept you going and kept you in wedding
• 16:59
  photography over the last few years?
• 17:01
  Sam: So it's, it's knowing, for me, one of the things is knowing other
• 17:05
  wedding professionals and having the support from other people that know what
• 17:10
  you're going through, which is really important, which is why the Wedding
• 17:15
  Pro Members Lounge is really important.
• 17:18
  Although I don't see many, many of them face to face every, every Monday
• 17:24
  morning is, you know, it's, it's really nice to hear people from the,
• 17:29
  who are going through the same thing.
• 17:31
  I've also got, made quite a few friends locally.
• 17:35
  I've got a really good friend who's a cake maker.
• 17:38
  We share a lot of, yeah, ideas and, and problems together.
• 17:42
  So having people that know what you're going through is really important.
• 17:46
  Becca: Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
• 17:48
  I think it's, it's can sometimes feel lonely, right?
• 17:50
  We're in our own businesses in our own worlds.
• 17:52
  And as much as our friends and family love us, they don't really understand what it
• 17:56
  is like to be in the wedding industry.
• 17:58
  So I think it's really important to surround ourselves with like minded
• 18:01
  people who can go, yeah, actually we're going through that too.
• 18:04
  This is what we're doing to make it better.
• 18:06
  Maybe you can help them and they can help you.
• 18:08
  And we all grow together, which is why I'm a big believer in community
• 18:13
  over competition, because even other photographers, you've got a lot that
• 18:16
  you can help each other with and definitely helps your businesses to grow.
• 18:21
  Now, Sam, there might be people listening to this who are
• 18:23
  newer to the wedding industry.
• 18:25
  Maybe they're where you were 10 years ago when you felt like you
• 18:28
  didn't know if you're good enough and you're only charging 200 pounds
• 18:31
  for your wedding photography.
• 18:32
  So if there are people listening who are wanting to get.
• 18:37
  What tips or advice would you give them if they're aspiring to be in that place?
• 18:42
  Sam: Don't take everything or try not to take anything personally.
• 18:47
  There will be always people, other people, that are better or
• 18:51
  worse than you, it's just life.
• 18:54
  I think, try not to always compete with other people, other, other, so,
• 19:01
  I, I do follow other photographers, but I don't get hung up about whether
• 19:08
  I think their photography's better, or whether they're getting more bookings,
• 19:12
  you can only do what you can do.
• 19:14
  And obviously you can learn from them, but you can only do what you can do.
• 19:19
  I would definitely have joined a business group earlier on if I'd known about it.
• 19:26
  I think that would have helped my business side of things hugely.
• 19:32
  So that, I think that would be definitely my number one piece of advice.
• 19:36
  Becca: Really helpful.
• 19:37
  Thank you for sharing.
• 19:39
  So what's next for you, Sam?
• 19:40
  What, what are you looking forward to for the future?
• 19:43
  Where do you see your business going?
• 19:44
  Have you got any big dreams or aspirations for 2024?
• 19:47
  Sam: Oh, well, I need to come to Las Vegas with you next year if I can.
• 19:52
  Becca: Yes, please.
• 19:53
  Let's do it.
• 19:54
  Sam: It's all a bit slow actually for next year, to be honest, but I'm not
• 19:59
  too worried about it at the moment.
• 20:01
  It's this time last year I had lots more bookings.
• 20:05
  But every year is different, so I'm trying not to worry about it too much.
• 20:10
  Yeah, so I'm, I'm just gonna, I just really enjoy what I do, so
• 20:13
  I'm gonna continue doing what I do.
• 20:17
  Becca: Absolutely, continue going out there, getting braver,
• 20:21
  bigger, better all of the time and Sam, I think you're incredible.
• 20:25
  I love that you've been brave enough to come on the podcast
• 20:27
  today to share your story.
• 20:29
  And I think you're on a huge journey and I think there's still further to go.
• 20:33
  And as for next year, because I know people listening will be feeling the same.
• 20:36
  Next year is a funny year.
• 20:38
  Lots of people are saying it.
• 20:39
  However, as I always say to each and every one of them.
• 20:43
  The bigger the budget, the less time they take to plan.
• 20:45
  So don't lose hope for next year because there's still some big budget weddings
• 20:49
  that they'll get engaged this Christmas and they will get married next summer.
• 20:52
  So there is still work out there for each and every one of you.
• 20:55
  So hold your nerve.
• 20:56
  Don't drop your prices because that's what it will feel tempting to do.
• 20:59
  It's a discount if you haven't got much work for next year, but actually you
• 21:02
  want to have the opposite mentality.
• 21:03
  Hold strong because the bigger budgets haven't even got engaged yet.
• 21:08
  Now, Sam, I always end my podcast with the same question, which I'm Which is
• 21:13
  what's one thing you personally wish you'd known sooner in your business?
• 21:18
  Sam: Well, I think I've just covered that really.
• 21:20
  I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, but again, joining a business group and having
• 21:25
  the knowledge to help with my business, but also the support from other people, I
• 21:31
  think also to ask, I mean, I did I did ask cause those friends lent me the lenses,
• 21:38
  which, but to ask more people can only say no, if they don't want to help you.
• 21:43
  Yeah.
• 21:44
  So I think join some support group with knowledge to help you with your business.
• 21:49
  And also to ask.
• 21:50
  Becca: Yes, I love that.
• 21:52
  Ask, ask, ask.
• 21:53
  If you don't ask, you don't get.
• 21:55
  Just like all those venues you were talking about earlier.
• 21:57
  If you didn't ask them what they needed help with or if you could do
• 21:59
  something for them, then they'd have just ignored you and you wouldn't be
• 22:02
  working with them in the way you are now.
• 22:04
  Sam, it has been such a pleasure.
• 22:06
  I hope it wasn't too painful for you stepping out of your comfort zone.
• 22:09
  Thank you for being honest, vulnerable and sharing your story
• 22:12
  and I'll speak with you soon.
• 22:13
  Sam: Thank you very much, Becca.
• 22:17
  Becca: I loved chatting with Sam and she's so brave coming on here because
• 22:20
  I know it was out of her comfort zone.
• 22:21
  But as I said at the start, I love interviewing my members, chatting with
• 22:25
  them and finding out their stories because you listening at home, you're
• 22:29
  in the same kind of places and actually you don't always need to hear from
• 22:33
  the big names and the big educators.
• 22:35
  Sometimes it's much more helpful to hear the raw honest truth from
• 22:38
  people in the business just like you.
• 22:41
  I'll see you next time.