Latest / Basic Folk / Keb' Mo' Defines the Blues as Honesty Music, ep. 350

Transcript

Keb' Mo' Defines the Blues as Honesty Music, ep. 350 · Basic Folk

0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi and welcome to Basic Folk, where we have honest conversations with folk musicians on the Bluegrass situation.
0:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Cindy Hous, this is Basic Folk episode 350.
0:23
[SPEAKER_00]: What an accomplishment, congratulations to us all for making it this far into the process.
0:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to thank my co-host and workwife Lizzy No.
0:33
[SPEAKER_00]: The Bluegrass situation shall be Williamson, Amy Wright now are Jacobs, and the rest of the crew for being so supportive.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just been incredible where this podcast has taken us and the great conversations that we've had.
0:46
[SPEAKER_00]: We're so thrilled to welcome Kebmo on the show today for episode 350.
0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we get into that, I want to encourage you to sign up for basic folks mailing list.
0:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a once-a-month email that tells you who's coming up on basic folk who's been on recently.
1:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You can also follow us on social media, Instagram mostly.
1:07
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1:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We're a listener supported podcast and you can make a contribution by going to Basic Folk.com slash Donate and all of those links are in the show notes.
1:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we were so honored to welcome Kebmo aka Kevin Moore on the show for our 350th episode.
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: After many decades of incredible music, his new solo acoustic album The Breakdown was written and recorded at his home studio near Nashville following open heart surgery and personal life changes.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: He's also recently released his second collaborative album with the legendary Taj Mahal.
1:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Lizzie is currently in transition right now.
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: She is moving to Ireland for grad school.
1:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So we were so lucky that Lizzie was able to talk to Kebmo.
1:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually asked her to send me a voice memo of her self giving me notes about what the interview was like.
2:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that what she said was so perfect.
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to her to say it in her own words.
2:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So please excuse the quality.
2:10
[SPEAKER_00]: of this recording because she was doing it when she was on the go, but what she's saying is really wonderful.
2:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's Lizzie No talking about her interview with Kebmo.
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we should highlight and maybe start the intro with Kevin's definition of the blues, which is honesty music.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of debate nowadays, whether the blues is something that is
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a formal set of requirements, is it a genre?
2:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it a type of sound that's trapped in a particular historical era?
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I asked Kevin, like, what's your definition of the blues?
2:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't even give the time of day to any of those.
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Nurtier, more gay, keypory explanations.
2:51
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, if the, if the music has that honesty and has the moan and the sense of like, I'm speaking to black experience for a black audience for people who understand what it's like to struggle, that's what the blues is.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: He defines the blues as a feeling and an act of honesty.
3:09
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a spectrum of humility to ego in music and there are artists for whom,
3:16
[SPEAKER_01]: music and the act of performing is a vehicle for their own notoriety.
3:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And during their interview, I was struck by how far on the opposite end of the spectrum Kedmo falls.
3:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like from the very early days of childhood, when he was learning the guitar for the first time, and just like even before he started playing his own music, like his first impressions of hearing music, it was all about learning and being in awe of
3:45
[SPEAKER_01]: players who he greatly respected and being humble before this tradition that he wanted to be part of.
3:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Kevin went from being a kid growing up in Compton and asking his friends for a guitar and like,
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: just knowing how much $25 men in those days, like that was the cost of his first guitar to now being an artist who sponsored by so many guitar companies and he's someone that people would love to have him play their guitars, like he still knows the value of an instrument and how one guitar is more than enough and he still remembers a time when the idea of having a collection of guitars was kind of crazy talk.
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Communicate in the intro is just the humility and the awe that he has always approached music with.
4:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when we got to the end of our interview, I asked Kevin, like, what does success mean to you and do you think you've achieved it?
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And his answer was, I get to keep playing and I don't have to get a regular job.
4:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to him, it's still, even after all these years, so many
4:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a privilege to be a part of this tradition and to get to go play in front of people, play his own original music in front of people.
5:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanna shout out how generous Kevin is.
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: As a conversation partner, I came into this interview nervous because he's one of the more legendary guests that we've had on the show and I found myself a number of times having to sit back and receive a compliment like he's the first to be like, that was a great question, you're really thoughtful, you're killing it.
5:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was really lucky to interview him.
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's take a listen to a clip from Keb's new album.
5:31
[SPEAKER_00]: This is fussing and fighting, and then we'll get to our conversation with Kebmo and Lizzie know on basic folk, okay, that rhymes.
5:56
[SPEAKER_02]: We couldn't get enough We were easy to please We had everything But so this changed And I can't do nothing right We spent their round Every day and every night Focusing and finding It's got to make crazy Where is the love we used to know From a long time ago It's focusing and finding
6:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It ain't gonna face me, give me all of me More than you know, this person ain't biting You've been ever going to stop I'm giving you everything, everything that I got I'm waiting for all the things You and I can give it all, just like we used to
6:55
[SPEAKER_02]: When we were going strong, a star was shining So brightly on us, but lately It's been a little rough, but it's time That we had a transformation Time to step away from our bad situation This person inside it is driving me crazy
7:26
[SPEAKER_02]: In my long time ago, this person invited It ain't gonna face me Baby I love Loading in love, this person invited Is it ever gonna stop?
7:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm giving you everything Everything that I've got, let's go back To the way it used to be
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's have some fun.
8:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Kevmo, you are a legendary musician, creator, and champion of the Blues and Folk.
8:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for joining me on Basic Folk.
8:11
[SPEAKER_03]: You're welcome.
8:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Happy to be here.
8:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to jump right in talking about the blues.
8:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been categorized as a blues artist from the very beginning of your career, even though your music encompasses a wide variety of genres, from jazz to folk to country and pop.
8:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you hear the phrase, the blues, what does it mean to you?
8:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it a feeling?
8:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it a genre?
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it a style of playing?
8:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's your definition?
8:38
[SPEAKER_03]: truth, realness, that's what the blues is.
8:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So I like to think that the blues divides the defines and everything I do in some kind of way that it has to be honest.
8:50
[SPEAKER_03]: We say blues artists is just honest, you know, the truth ours.
8:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
8:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a simple and good definition that I haven't heard before.
8:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people try to pin it down to a particular genre.
9:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, we're kind of genre.
9:03
[SPEAKER_03]: We like to categorize things.
9:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a problem with
9:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Being put in the category, I never have.
9:10
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the category you want to put me in.
9:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to stay in it, but you could put me in it.
9:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
9:19
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you get introduced to Delta Blues in particular?
9:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Delta Blues was like, I was introduced to the Blues as a child, basically.
9:30
[SPEAKER_03]: But as far as, like, really, the Delta Blues,
9:39
[SPEAKER_03]: We're when I heard the Delta, but when I really heard it, I probably had heard it before, but hadn't paid much attention to it.
9:47
[SPEAKER_03]: But when I heard it after being involved with the Blues by for the last five years before that, I was saying, okay, that's the real stuff.
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:01
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the truth.
10:02
[SPEAKER_03]: There was no screaming to talk to an aunt.
10:04
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just some dude.
10:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Just got through it.
10:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been working, playing some music, saying a song.
10:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, and it came then more and more on that old, southern moan, that was an interesting thing.
10:20
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it was like, so I looked at that as like, oh, that's, that's honest and that's what I have to be.
10:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to be honest like that.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen the audience and like the appetite for the blues change over the course of your career since the 90s?
10:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I've, I've, I've, right now I've seen more artists show up.
10:43
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, more blues on, it's best the young ones showing up and embracing the genre.
10:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't really notice the audience because I've tried not to pay attention to what shrines are.
10:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I just try to pay attention to what I'm doing and make sure that I'm doing what I'm my intentions are pure and clear.
11:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And then all that stuff, the audience and whatever they're doing.
11:06
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's what they do.
11:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't control them.
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hopefully they show up.
11:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's the reason.
11:12
[SPEAKER_03]: So everything is about, you know, is it reading?
11:16
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a reading back to me when I'm recording when I'm performing.
11:19
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and I'm kidding.
11:22
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, am I connected to myself, first of all, do I believe it, you know?
11:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And is it, am I presenting it in a way that's pleasing to myself and to the audience and cohesive?
11:36
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just pay attention to those things, I don't really pay attention to how, you know, I mean, across I see it, I mean, I'm like a, you know, say that I don't, but that's where my,
11:51
[SPEAKER_03]: That's where my focus lies mostly.
11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I want to ask another question about your origins as a performer.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You've based aspects of your performer identity on the short stories of Zora Neal Hurston.
12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell the basic folk audience about guitar man?
12:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, who is he in the stories and who is he on stage?
12:14
[SPEAKER_03]: You're the first person that ever asked me that question ever.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, I love to hear that.
12:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't even let him think about that, you know, because guitar man basically was a catalyst, the good role of guitar man was to be a catalyst to get to where I am now, basically, you know, was probably the beginning of the first things that I did.
12:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to, I don't know, I didn't look at it as a character, I was just accompanying the actors, you know, I felt like I was a kind of like a Greek chorus, so to speak.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
12:56
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, in the background doing things and I was there too.
13:00
[SPEAKER_03]: who helped push the story forward as opposed to actually being a main character who he was.
13:05
[SPEAKER_03]: He was in there, but he was a presence of that feeling of that, that blues, that sound.
13:14
[SPEAKER_03]: He made the sound that, in terms of music, that the actors were making with their dialogue.
13:24
[SPEAKER_03]: No, so I remember for the first time first time I worked with it.
13:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't the main guitar man.
13:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I was the understudy of guitar man and so but I was in the production that George C. Wolf was directing.
13:44
[SPEAKER_03]: So I got to go to all the meetings, the pre, the technical rehearsals, all the things there and he was He would comment on it.
13:52
[SPEAKER_03]: He would talk about it.
13:53
[SPEAKER_03]: He stared at the archetypes and the people and the characters with a mint And he would comment on it and just All what he was saying like the demon on the porch if you for me, but you know those guys You know, I just I felt like I'm on the three men on the porch Yeah, you know and
14:12
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just about that, man.
14:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you've seen those two men on the porch.
14:17
[SPEAKER_03]: They're there.
14:18
[SPEAKER_03]: They're in all cultures.
14:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it's two men, sometimes it's four.
14:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And they sit up.
14:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And they ain't got nothing better to do, but watch everybody grow by, you know, and just calm it and sit and lie and just talk crap.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's like the ongoing commentary as the action takes place down front.
14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's an important job even if they can be tricky sometimes.
14:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but that role was, you know, thanks.
14:53
[SPEAKER_03]: That adds to that question.
14:54
[SPEAKER_03]: You're making me dig.
14:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
14:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on.
14:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on, busy.
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's an I think it's really interesting because, you know, you're a solo performer.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what people know you for, but you also have your origins, you know, on the stage and in literature and in being someone that like comments on things from the bird's eye view.
15:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's an important role to play.
15:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I try to comment without taking an opinion.
15:24
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what happened.
15:25
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what we're dealing with.
15:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Whether you think and people kind of,
15:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really
15:58
[SPEAKER_03]: and as far as what my definition of singing was was a very high bar, which I heard of course in the Baptist Church growing up.
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
16:07
[SPEAKER_03]: So I wasn't thinking about singing, I was going with you.
16:12
[SPEAKER_03]: If you can't do that, stretch your mouth, go sit down,
16:18
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all this other stuff's not singing, but singing became a part of the tool I needed to tell the stories.
16:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So I had to muster up enough singing, singing skill, to tell the story, to push that forward.
16:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And what I found was that that was enough.
16:38
[SPEAKER_03]: If you get the right melody, the right structure, and if you get it right, and you mean it, and you've went through all the words, and the words are displaying the emotion that you want to portray, that if you say the words and sing the melody, the story and the emotion is already in there, even if I don't feel it on a night.
17:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's basically the song kind of sings itself sometimes.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a real humility there in letting the song do its work and letting your voice just be a vehicle for the bigger story.
17:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's all I got.
17:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't do that though, thanks.
17:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Where your voice becomes like I was I said a video I have to come up with a shorted seizure I think you know, she was preaching and she was in front of the song and she took out the story and And the story she was telling the story but the enhancement of the story was quite emotional and quite
17:48
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, you know, and that's like telling the story, but she's also delivering a message of attitude, culture, she's telling y'all about the South, feel the hollows.
18:05
[SPEAKER_03]: The gospel, where we're being as a people, she's telling you a whole lot of things that are unspoken, and everybody understands all those other things that are being said, without being said, even though we had seniors like that, a successful singer, or not, I've been singing, we're mom and a little bit before it starts singing.
18:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Just to let you know.
18:28
[UNKNOWN]: You know?
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:30
[SPEAKER_03]: You know?
18:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
18:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it starts with like a shared understanding of what we've been through and like that's the just the starting point.
18:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's fun.
18:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I love watching what people do and why it works and not trying to be anybody but myself.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It comes through in every single one of your recordings.
18:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say that.
19:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I read an interview with you in Americana Highways where you were talking about your Oklahoma album and the interviewer asked you about one of the songs like the songwriting behind it and you said it came into my space which I thought was a really interesting kind of visual way of talking about inspiration and how it can show up in your life.
19:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm wondering like what's your actual workspace like when it comes to writing songs?
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like do you have to put yourself in a
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Headspace, sit at a desk, like, how do you get yourself ready to receive inspiration?
19:42
[SPEAKER_03]: What I do is open, open up to it.
19:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it's always there.
19:48
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a big faucet running.
19:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It's critically just coming down out of the sky and throws, and I don't have to really have a special anything.
19:57
[SPEAKER_03]: If I just, I just think it's a main and song.
20:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Open and plugged in and get your mind sometimes, get your mind out of the way and sometimes if you're so clogged up with life and you can't hear it, you just start writing all the gibberish that comes out and then it's pretty soon like at some point it starts making sense.
20:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
20:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
20:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you keep a journal for that purpose?
20:26
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
20:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty lazy.
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that about you.
20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: For someone who's accomplished so much, you make it sound simpler than it is for a lot of us.
20:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, what I, because I'm kind of like unmotivated, I'm unmotivated, but basically unmotivated to get out really hustle and really like, I'm gonna, you know, this.
20:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I think what I do is, I think, I
20:57
[SPEAKER_03]: whatever I manage to do has to count because I'm so lazy, you know, it has to really, you know, it's got to go so kind of way.
21:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So then I spent a lot of time just honed in my skills to observe and to listen, like oftentimes I'm actually very unemotional person.
21:21
[SPEAKER_03]: because I think we're growing up.
21:23
[SPEAKER_03]: My mother was so emotional at three sisters and everybody was so emotional.
21:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I figured out a system I had to shut down and just hear things.
21:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course, I'm a little scarred from it, you know.
21:38
[SPEAKER_03]: But I pause and I hear something, and I don't immediately jump to conclusions.
21:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't wanna try to defend myself against.
21:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't wanna understand what you're saying.
21:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And even if it's a brother or something, it's a constructive attack on me or just someone sharing what they feel or just, you know, something like, I don't want to hear and I just sit with it for a minute and I don't talk that much really about my feelings, I have trouble setting boundaries, you know, my parents are where people can say to me and things
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds like a blessing in a curse.
22:29
[SPEAKER_03]: It is.
22:30
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's, it's multi-time.
22:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm probably kind of misunderstood.
22:35
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I can be perceived as uncaring.
22:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not, you know, I don't know some kind of things, you know, just no.
22:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm not numb.
22:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a coping mechanism that protects my little child heart.
22:55
[SPEAKER_03]: from bursting and becoming, even though I'm almost 75 years old, you know, it's like I'm still like trying to figure things out for the song process is really fun.
23:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And I love the way I, the moment of the system I've used to kind of protect myself and to create from a standpoint of, you know, so it's just what it is.
23:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I find that relatable, I'm a songwriter as well, and I do think it comes from that childhood place of the big people misunderstanding me and feeling like I couldn't say my feelings in conversation.
23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all kind of too much and overwhelming, but it starts to make sense when you put it into verses.
23:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when it starts to rhyme and there's a melody attached.
23:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no one can tell you, that's not true when you put it in a song.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It all makes sense when it takes the form of music.
23:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm always surprised.
23:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Like yesterday, the day before, some of the last couple of days, one of the songs from a new album got released
24:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I'm going to start crying if I think about that song.
24:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so good.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so deep.
24:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, I was like, I was like, hey, man, that one that they were like, whoa, I was like, really, you know, because it's, it's some, you know, and I wrote it with my friend Colin Lindin, the same guy I wrote life is beautiful with.
24:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And Colin is, he's a Canadian, he's from Toronto.
24:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's well, he's got real sensitive guy and I met him a long time ago with he was playing with Bruce Cooper.
24:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just, the two of us when we write, something happens, you know, and it happened again and that's all Monday away, you know.
24:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Just wait, smiling, wait, it's just like,
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: it'll come.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get into your new album The Breakdown.
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really, really special body of work that strips away a number of things like structures in your life, musical elements.
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: it gets to the to the root of things.
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to start with living in the moment because according to what I've read about the album, this is a song that took a really long road from its inception to the final recording that we're hearing today.
25:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So can you talk about the original inspiration behind that song and kind of the journey that it took to get to this album?
25:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a song written in the late 70s, my opinion early is probably at 70s.
25:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and with our right energy, well-to-man, you know, and we were right songs.
25:56
[SPEAKER_03]: We had a lot of the song we wrote and stuff, and that one my sister heard, you know, she heard it, and she liked it, and she was always saying, how do you mean that would require a living in the moment, you know?
26:12
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, I felt like I had evolved a long way away from that song, a living in the
26:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So I said, okay, I think it for her, I mean, that's honest enough for me and another friend of mine, you know, another friend of mine.
26:28
[SPEAKER_03]: He called me day before yesterday, and he's about to, he's called me, it's really a crazy call.
26:37
[SPEAKER_03]: He called me from his dying bit, he told me he was dying, and he wanted to hear that song too.
26:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like that song found its time, not through me, but there were a couple of people who were really resonated with.
26:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So I put it on, and when I put it on, I found out that it had to tweak a little bit.
27:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Because in 1979, I wasn't as particular of a musician that I am now.
27:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't just teaching the, I was always a detail,
27:16
[SPEAKER_03]: not to the degree that I am now about things.
27:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So I went back to you.
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the details?
27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so curious, musically, like what were some of the details that you felt like this has got to change before it is, you know, stamp of approval.
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
27:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it's just the way you put it on the guitar, where you play it, what shapes you use, you know, what key you're doing in.
27:41
[SPEAKER_03]: The melody, sometimes your melody is a step or a half step off, and what it should be, you know, the real melody.
27:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And I go through them and like, not just work, Leon, what I spontaneously came up with, but go back with that and then go.
28:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Sweet.
28:03
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all about the tweep.
28:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like times in the hall, I was going to remember him.
28:08
[SPEAKER_03]: He was like, oh, he can't put his tweezers.
28:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
28:32
[SPEAKER_03]: of the band or whatever the instruments are on there, between the story and it's going to be a dance, you know, between those things to deliver their message.
28:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So those songs like that and on that old, after going back and fixing, and even with the new song, you have to fix it when you're becoming the master recording that's going to go out and represent that song for the first time, because you know, the city is only
29:02
[SPEAKER_03]: you know?
29:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
29:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And that song, when it, if it makes impression on the first time, well, that's your shot.
29:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of my missed, I feel like I had some songs on my record that I kind of missed opportunities, you know, because of one reason or the other.
29:20
[SPEAKER_03]: But um, living in the moment, that song grows to the occasion.
29:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And Andrew Welman was like, It really does.
29:26
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, she's a librarian now.
29:29
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, wow, that's amazing.
29:31
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, kids, you know, I've been a librarian.
29:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, you know, I've been a librarian.
29:35
[SPEAKER_03]: We're old.
29:36
[SPEAKER_03]: She's old lady.
29:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a old man.
29:39
[SPEAKER_03]: And the song comes out of the second, you know.
29:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I had another moment with the song.
29:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, the song has a moment.
29:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Quiet moments.
29:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the song on the Oklahoma Auto.
29:51
[SPEAKER_03]: You know?
29:53
[SPEAKER_03]: and Oklahoma was on Oklahoma wasn't, yeah.
29:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Quiet moments, because Christian Chinnois did a part on it, and she's from Oklahoma, you know.
30:05
[SPEAKER_03]: It resonated with people from Oklahoma, the person I wrote that Oklahoma saw with this Oklahoma.
30:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was thinking about Oklahoma, and my experience with it, like visiting Oklahoma after to NATO was like, I'm from California,
30:23
[SPEAKER_03]: That tornado, whole whole body.
30:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, it used to be this.
30:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought about all the things about Tony, Oklahoma.
30:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I can feel the spirit lifted me up, taking me higher.
30:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I could never get in there.
30:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought about a local home, cardboard and chopped up.
30:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
30:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Slides like me at the rodeo, saddle me up, then I made it.
30:47
[SPEAKER_03]: On the bridge, I made it.
30:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
30:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It should be to the gap there.
30:52
[SPEAKER_03]: which is an overall green wood archer.
30:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
30:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, let's get back there.
30:59
[SPEAKER_03]: There's an elevated state of mind.
31:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Keep on reaching for the sky because when they go low, Michelle Obama, we go high in Oklahoma.
31:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Oklahoma is this way.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and you got the chance to meet Michelle Obama, right?
31:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you've talked about... Oh, yes, she's quiet.
31:15
[SPEAKER_01]: She's smell amazing.
31:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to imagine.
31:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
31:18
[SPEAKER_03]: She is quiet.
31:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't get that close, but she is...
31:21
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
31:23
[SPEAKER_03]: She is...
31:25
[SPEAKER_03]: If I was married to her, I'd be president.
31:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
31:29
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
31:31
[SPEAKER_03]: She is.
31:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
31:32
[SPEAKER_01]: No, she's the secret sauce.
31:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, definitely.
31:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely.
31:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you get around, if you're sitting around,
31:39
[SPEAKER_03]: because in the whole body, you see, in that energy field, you lower the power is, so, it's fun.
31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about your song, they don't make them like they used to, which is a really fun song on this album with Take Six.
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It reminded me of the collaboration that you did with Rosanne Cash, put a woman in charge.
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you have this theme of speaking about the power of women to potentially a male audience, like you need to pay attention.
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: and afford women the respect and not assume you know how women are supposed to behave and how they're supposed to treat you.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel a sense of responsibility of educating people and telling men to evolve in their relationship with women?
32:40
[SPEAKER_03]: No, once again, I just tell the story.
32:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Man made the fire, then the wheel went from a horse to an automobile, and so and so on, you know, because it's not about having an agenda.
32:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like telling the story as it is.
33:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So why not?
33:02
[SPEAKER_03]: So after that, after I'll be in a sit, hmm.
33:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's put a woman in charge, you know, how about that?
33:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I didn't, I didn't really resonate when it first came up.
33:15
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a little like what you talking about.
33:17
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it, that's it.
33:18
[SPEAKER_03]: But it started to resonate, you know, I think it keeps resonating.
33:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, it was some places where I can watch the people's faces.
33:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I think men get a little uncomfortable sometimes, you know.
33:34
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what you're saying there, a young man, not a young man, but you know that look on there, you know.
33:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
33:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but don't make them like the used to.
33:44
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what stands for the Grand Mon Grand Park.
33:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And I had to change some lyrics in it because the women went in an upward.
33:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's one line in the song that I left it in just one time.
33:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just a line with a...
34:02
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a, it's a, I have to probably a pop.
34:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I probably have to apologize for it.
34:06
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, going forward, it's like this, this is like, they don't do what they supposed to do.
34:13
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
34:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
34:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked that line.
34:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I liked it too, because I think it's honest.
34:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you can't expect women to act, how you think they're supposed to act.
34:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like women are, the times are changing.
34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Women are taking different liberties now.
34:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, I think that's a beautiful thing.
34:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's from a standpoint of grandma.
34:34
[SPEAKER_03]: The grandma's talking about this stuff.
34:36
[SPEAKER_03]: She's here, you know, you better, you better buckle up, buddy.
34:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
34:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Tires are changed.
34:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
34:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
34:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that song.
34:48
[SPEAKER_01]: How?
34:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And speaking of the arrangements and like, you have talked a lot about getting out of your own way and keeping things simple.
34:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And the arrangements on this album are very,
34:58
[SPEAKER_01]: strip down to an extent.
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: How does your guitar playing change when you have take six entering the mix?
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, do you have to be conscious of not stepping on each other's toes?
35:11
[SPEAKER_03]: No, first the first thing I do is I sing with just me and the guitar.
35:16
[SPEAKER_03]: It takes six idea is the afterthought.
35:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Because after thought of, okay, how can we make this kick a little more?
35:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it starts out like a gospel quartet, you know?
35:29
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, maybe this can buy you.
35:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Ask me a biscuits, you know?
35:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, I thought about it.
35:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I said no.
35:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I could have called any bunch of guys to come into a gospel quartet thing, you know?
35:46
[SPEAKER_03]: But I thought a gospel sixth hit.
35:52
[SPEAKER_03]: 6.
35:52
[SPEAKER_03]: That's another level.
35:53
[SPEAKER_03]: With a little more, a little more pronounced to it, not like a lot like the Dixie hummingbirds and the five blind blind blind boys.
36:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I called them and I called them on the day.
36:05
[SPEAKER_03]: They were in town all in town in Nashville and they did it.
36:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just my as well.
36:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I just my my as well and I take six.
36:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I was stuck with they do.
36:16
[SPEAKER_03]: they're just amazing.
36:17
[SPEAKER_01]: The math of how they arrange their songs is so amazing to me.
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw them do a Beach Boys tribute with Michael McDonald at the Dolby Theatre, I think, out in LA.
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just feel like I'd never heard the Beach Boys quite that way because there were such an intricacy to the harmonies that you're hearing like the whole band and orchestra just in their voices.
36:41
[SPEAKER_03]: They're an instrument.
36:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
36:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
36:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
36:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
36:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing.
36:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's such a great song.
36:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about some of the other special guests that you had on this album, the Soito Gospel choir feature on hand it over.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you feel like they're needed to be a moment for faith and prayer on this record?
37:05
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
37:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't.
37:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt like it just happened.
37:11
[SPEAKER_03]: These albums make themselves, I don't make these albums.
37:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I just get out of the way and let them ring down.
37:21
[SPEAKER_03]: They'd always tell you what they want.
37:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Once you get the songs, we put it together, and it just, the song, the album, the body of work starts to take on the life of its own, and it starts telling you what it wants.
37:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, walking on water and the lower being right next to each other.
37:45
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a spiritual moment.
37:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah Walking on water.
37:49
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a that's a a cover that I remember with Rosa Jill Colucci and beat a cool engine and it's like she did it on her album.
38:02
[SPEAKER_03]: So I
38:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, I asked, come see, you might have tried to do it too, I think I have to do it too.
38:06
[SPEAKER_03]: She said, yeah, you know, so I just put it on there and I don't even know how they're going to fit.
38:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes I'm looking at these records and when I look in the group of songs and I have, I go, my God, they don't fit together.
38:22
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, all over the map, but they always do, they always fit.
38:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe that comes down to the sequencing.
38:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the sequel thing, yeah, that's what I mean.
38:33
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, it's absolutely the sequel thing.
38:35
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't, they don't, and so if you get on with it, if you get, if you put out of the team together, I think, and you don't worry about how it's gonna come out, I don't know, it's just, mm-hmm.
38:48
[SPEAKER_03]: It always works, because I'm not that smart, really being able to put the sun.
38:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm not saying I'm dumb, but I'm not that smart, or I can see that fine.
38:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, two in advance, have us yet in advance to have a plan.
39:02
[SPEAKER_03]: But when I just go with the way it's rolling out of here, the way it's coming, coming in, it always never let me down yet.
39:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's life, too.
39:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a question about stitched up heart.
39:24
[SPEAKER_01]: That feels like a level of vulnerability and personal writing, like even deeper than maybe other releases that you've had.
39:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you had the chance to perform that song live?
39:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like does it feel like you're singing about your own guts and body?
39:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't had a chance to perform it live.
39:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I probably don't know if you have about three songs on the record.
39:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You got time.
39:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I got that.
39:53
[SPEAKER_03]: So, but that song is the woman that was the lead surgeon on my, when I had heart surgery two years ago.
40:01
[SPEAKER_03]: She came in and, you know, and she was, she was very thorough.
40:05
[SPEAKER_03]: She was, she was a badass.
40:07
[SPEAKER_03]: She was on it.
40:08
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I immediately like knew I was interested in this one with my life.
40:12
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and it's really a homage to her, you know, you know.
40:18
[SPEAKER_03]: She walked into the room.
40:19
[SPEAKER_03]: It was love at first sight.
40:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Not that kind of love, just, you know what I mean?
40:24
[SPEAKER_03]: She knew I was.
40:24
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but a deeper love of a deep trust.
40:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she knew I had a problem, and she could make it right.
40:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
40:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And so on and so on, you know, different there and we're talking about like her.
40:37
[SPEAKER_03]: The whole process, like, even insurance, like, oh, yeah.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You're deductible.
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you mentioned on one of the verses.
40:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, just talk to go on.
40:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I pay you not to talk to go on.
40:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a really good lyric.
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so good because people sing about the heart all the time.
40:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like one of the most addressed topics in song.
41:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But writing about the process of actually getting your physical heart.
41:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Operated on and stitched up is another level for me.
41:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved running.
41:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I really came in.
41:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I was literally in the company.
41:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't walk through the bathroom, but I, you know, and Rebecca Kirby, I came over with it.
41:19
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
41:19
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's it.
41:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, okay, all right.
41:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And we picked up that song and I stitched up hard.
41:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And just, you know,
41:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was, that's about as honest as you get, you know, when she gave me a magic potion, you know, I felt asleep and her loving eyes.
41:48
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I trusted her completely, you know, just keep me safe from her, but while I was sleeping, she pulled out all the tools.
42:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, this saw in my shit in half, and there's nothing pretty about it.
42:12
[SPEAKER_03]: When in the end did who knows what, and I woke up to tell about it.
42:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Think goodness.
42:17
[SPEAKER_03]: gratefulness, and it wasn't that it's a gratefulness, you know.
42:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a deeper kind of love.
42:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I found that coming back to your voice, I think your vocal performance on more yesterdays.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Tells its own whole story.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in addition to the lyrics and the music and the production on that song, there's fragility, meeting strength, you know, the mystery of the future, meeting the certainty of the past.
42:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you talk about what it felt like to write, perform and record that song?
42:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's another old, that song's 15 years old.
42:59
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, like, 18 years old, it was like whatever.
43:03
[SPEAKER_03]: It could go.
43:04
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a correct one.
43:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I came to Nashville when I first moved here with Mark Beeson.
43:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And at the time, I really wanted to put it aside.
43:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I just went, no, but I mean, I never forget certain songs you never forget, because I don't have so many songs that I'm going through like volumes and volumes of songs that I like.
43:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
43:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I like to keep things simple.
43:28
[SPEAKER_03]: But I can record in process 9, you can keep everything you're recording, you can go through and you can cut and paste and put things on, you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
43:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Every song was written about something.
44:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So, sometimes the time just is not right.
44:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, living in the moment, the time is right.
44:05
[SPEAKER_03]: More yesterday's, the time became right.
44:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Because at the start, I felt the song.
44:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I was too young even though I approached in 60, like, you know, I was still too young to live in.
44:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel pretty good.
44:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I was on late 50s.
44:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I was feeling like 40, you know, I was kind of...
44:22
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but, you know, so I didn't really, but after that, they cut my ass open.
44:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, okay, now let's just do that one, go that one in there, you know?
44:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So it all like- It sounds like you have a really good intuition of when it's time because that song really hits home on this record and a way I can't imagine it
44:52
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
44:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
44:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Give me a like, give me more ice.
44:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Give me ice cream.
44:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
44:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a party.
45:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
45:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Why ice cream?
45:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
45:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on.
45:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's the simple things at this point.
45:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to talk briefly about your relationship with hero-turned, collaborator, and friend, Taj Mahal.
45:20
[SPEAKER_01]: In and in, I have this old copy of a acoustic guitar magazine I was reading on the plane.
45:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And you guys did an interview together where you said, we are Taj Mahal and Kebbo, but together we become a third entity.
45:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you speak to that third thing?
45:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Who or what is it?
45:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's an entity, like a marriage.
45:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's the husband, the wife, and then there's the marriage, and then there's three things operate.
45:54
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so partnership, there's two individuals.
45:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And what the two individuals create together is a thing.
46:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I just listened to like, I was listening to like some albums of Tosh and this is the Taj Mahalbo.
46:10
[SPEAKER_03]: and the Taj Mahal was different from anything, what we do, you know, it's not the same thing.
46:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
46:16
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, because I mean, and we were, we were Taj Mahal is like, I thought I never get to do.
46:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I got there, I wasn't even like, I wouldn't even like dream in it, you know?
46:29
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I was just kind of like, this Taj Mahal is good, you know?
46:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And every time I play with him like sometimes sometimes I'm like, I'm going to stay with him.
46:39
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, I'm kind of chillin' dated, is he here looking like this and go, which is what you do.
46:48
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the first time I was like, stay on your toes.
46:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, because he's a, he's, he's on the lookout for uh, wankers he calls him.
46:59
[SPEAKER_03]: He'll be a wanker.
47:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Watch out for these wankers.
47:05
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys wanted to do merch, a t-shirt that says don't be a wanker, I would buy it.
47:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, maybe he's, I mean, I got and he'd like trusted me.
47:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not came in.
47:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I started working on, I started working on the first Tajimo record.
47:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And he'd like, he, you know, he said, okay, all right, you know, and I just, you know, just kind of drilled
47:34
[SPEAKER_03]: But like, you know, I knew what at the same time while I'm driving the boat, I'm never going to get to two hours.
47:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm full of myself thinking I'm driving the boat because I'm not driving the boat.
47:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm just a passenger, you know, and that he is, he's listening to his music and what he did, what he did, what he wrote, he laid down allowed me to be on the road
48:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I can't step that thing and I'm cute to something.
48:08
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's like, no, no, you're just, and when he opens his mouth to sing, I go like, yeah, that's what makes the whole thing really, you know, the difference, what we both bring to it.
48:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the history.
48:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I first heard Taj Mahal that is high school assembly in 1969 and it caught in high school.
48:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And so,
48:32
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, now I was like, okay, that's different.
48:36
[SPEAKER_03]: What was that?
48:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it was like the blues, but not kind of like the blues of my mom and my folks were listening to after church on Sunday.
48:44
[SPEAKER_03]: This was like some other kind of shit.
48:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me, sorry.
48:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's mine.
48:48
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it was just like, it was a some other kind of stuff.
48:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
48:51
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so, and always, and I was always directed.
48:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't start following around,
49:01
[SPEAKER_03]: But I got, I was gifted by a foretrack to sit, not when the cassette tape, but before eight track tapes, there were four track tapes that had a brief thing, and then they immediately went to the eight track tape that helped most of them.
49:19
[SPEAKER_03]: But a friend of mine, Robert Mann, you know, I was in one school where he brought this
49:31
[SPEAKER_03]: He said, hey man, here, why don't you take, I don't like this, you take this.
49:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't take, I wouldn't think.
49:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you start painting that mini box and you know, just talking about all that stuff.
49:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh my goodness, it was just like, yeah, it was, it was just crazy.
49:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, this is, this is it right here.
49:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I know the two of you have tour dates coming up.
49:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there sonic territories that you still want to explore together?
50:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is there uncharted stuff you still have left to accomplish as a duo?
50:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I, I, I never look at us as a, I looked at that first Taj Mahu album is a one thing, one time thing.
50:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
50:15
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
50:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't know.
50:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
50:17
[SPEAKER_03]: We did it.
50:19
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, leave it alone.
50:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Then here comes Conqueror because you guys think you want to do another one?
50:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Nah.
50:27
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't know.
50:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Inquiring minds want to know.
50:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And they manage to convince us, and so we did it, and it was fun again.
50:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think it's probably an infinite amount of ideas we could explore together.
50:45
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm still, I'm still wanting to explore some things.
50:51
[SPEAKER_03]: on my own channel call that I look behind that I haven't even like probably put in front of an audience either never or as much as I should have, you know.
51:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm still digging into my channel on my past channel, I'll come in.
51:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got to fish some more out of here.
51:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And because making records, I kind of like, I don't know what the name by the cares anymore, I don't know record.
51:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I can speak for the basic fault corner of the world.
51:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still very exciting.
51:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this new record of yours is really moving.
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think people are ready or able to anticipate the feelings that they're gonna feel when they hear the songs.
51:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not even, I mean, yes, it's about your catalog, but it's also about how you as a performer keep evolving over time.
51:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm grateful that you keep making new records.
51:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, every time I make a new one, I'm scared to just scare, because I know I have to show up again, you know.
51:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's why I don't think I write all the time, because I don't want to exhaust my, my, my, all of my ideas trying to write a whole bunch of songs.
52:04
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I read the just pick my, pick my battles.
52:10
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I did.
52:12
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I wrote about that.
52:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's grow them and let's get it though.
52:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's not a squad play.
52:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go.
52:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go have dinner.
52:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go visit the family.
52:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go.
52:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's get out of here.
52:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what life is.
52:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we have to be have some life to have some songs, so I don't know.
52:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, success means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but especially as musicians, for some people, it's money, awards, this or that, then you being your own boss, what does success mean to you Kevin?
52:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And do you think you've achieved it?
52:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And depending on any day you ask me, you might be in a slightly different answer.
52:55
[SPEAKER_03]: The day's answer is, I still get to play, and I don't have to get a straight job.
53:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Hell yeah.
53:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Last week, that's the success and everything above that to me is like more gravy, that's just dessert, but basically I get to go play, I get to write songs, I get to perform, I get to share my work with other people, you know, that's the thing.
53:26
[SPEAKER_01]: My last question for you before I do a little lightning round if you're down is what has
53:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Love has been teaching me that I'm kind of wimpy.
53:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Look, yeah, we're gonna go, we're gonna go, I'm gonna meet you back to early in our, our, we touched on it with my temperament.
53:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Is then I don't said boundaries.
53:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm very easily offended.
53:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Not offended when you make me mad, but,
54:01
[SPEAKER_03]: because I'm just a little, I'm a simple, I'm a heavy-handed screwdriver.
54:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm simple.
54:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And like a kid, like you can go up the end.
54:13
[SPEAKER_03]: So I take things literally, and I don't know the bit of femininity, femininity.
54:20
[SPEAKER_03]: The bit of it goes on.
54:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't understand.
54:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't always understand it.
54:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Both the questions again.
54:26
[SPEAKER_01]: What has love been teaching you?
54:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's been teaching me to speak up and continue to pause and to listen deeper and to be, yeah, it's just, I don't know, don't run so quick.
54:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are good insights.
54:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
54:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, time for the lightning round.
54:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, for the lightning round, just answer quickly.
54:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't think too hard.
54:56
[SPEAKER_01]: One, two, three, go.
54:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, what is your biggest pet peeve?
55:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Somebody trained upon me.
55:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Not cool.
55:06
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your most useful, non-musical skill?
55:10
[SPEAKER_03]: My ability to speak out.
55:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
55:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Which do we prefer, sweet snacks or salty snacks?
55:21
[SPEAKER_03]: all sweet snacks.
55:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your pre-show beverage?
55:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Throat Co. A lot of lodgins, fishaments, friend, and water.
55:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Your model citizen, for singers.
55:36
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your favorite vacation destination?
55:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have one.
55:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I put on a so few vacations that I don't know.
55:45
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, well, before we talk next, you owe yourself a vacation.
55:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Go, go.
55:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Go on home, that's my favorite vacation.
55:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is a great musician from California that everyone should know about?
55:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care.
56:01
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't even know about it like that.
56:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Great film games.
56:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Cool.
56:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What animal would you like to be reincarnated as in your next life?
56:10
[SPEAKER_03]: An eagle.
56:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's a good one.
56:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think any other guest has mentioned an eagle.
56:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And finally, what makes you hopeful?
56:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, maybe hopeful is that I think there's always in the midst of chaos is always something better coming.
56:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think we're on a cycle of chaos, clarity, chaos, clarity.
56:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's really loose around.
56:38
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what the one day away in silence has about like, there's something coming.
56:44
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's going to come back.
56:46
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when life is problem solving.
56:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's, you know, why not do the other problems and they're going to go away.
56:54
[SPEAKER_03]: You're never going to have a life without problems.
56:57
[SPEAKER_03]: So just knowing that, just owning it and just being okay with it.
57:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Acceptance.
57:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so that's smart.
57:05
[SPEAKER_03]: You got that woman brain.
57:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just summarizing this stuff you just said.
57:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Good.
57:11
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my trick.
57:13
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm hearing you right, it's this thing.
57:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast.
57:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You are a legendary musician and we're just so stoked to have you on the podcast.
57:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm glad to be here.
57:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for taking your time.
57:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, thank you.
57:26
[SPEAKER_03]: This was a very, very nice interview, very nice conversation.
57:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't call you in a corner of the top.
57:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you.
57:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Very well.
57:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Put together.
57:35
[SPEAKER_03]: You ask me some brilliant questions.
57:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for being here.
57:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
57:40
[SPEAKER_00]: This episode of Basic Folk was produced by Anthony Cabrera, Dietrich Strauss coposes our music.
57:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Basic Folk is a production of the Bluegrass situation podcast network.
57:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find all of our episodes there.
57:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You can search for Basic Folk on the Series XM app.
57:54
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find us on folkalli.com or folkalli's mobile app.
57:58
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go to our website, basicfolk.com or you can listen wherever you get your shows.
58:02
[SPEAKER_00]: If you enjoyed this episode, I recommend sharing it with a friend.
58:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone who has a really hard and fast definition of blues music haven't taken a listen to this and maybe that'll change their mind.
58:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, thanks for listening.
58:14
[SPEAKER_00]: All the way to the end of basicfolk 350.
58:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you next time.
58:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye!