Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #263: Pennsylvania’s Outbreak Fight, Amish Freedom, and the Questions Behind the Headlines

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Episode #263: Pennsylvania’s Outbreak Fight, Amish Freedom, and the Questions Behind the Headlines · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really great time in history, at least in medical history for our country.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot in the press right now about vaccines, but in particular about people starting to talk about them.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: All I know is that the that you don't help yourself by trying to cloud the controversy in secrecy.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, welcome to another Beyond Labels podcast with your hosts, Joel Salatin, the farmer, that would be me, and Cena McCullough, our great um scientific researcher, who has been following the whole vaccine vis-a-vis measles uh situation in Pennsylvania, the sparring between Governor Shapiro and RFK Jr.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and just what's happening around the world with this discussion of vaccine.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not all negative.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, just being able to bring this taboo subject into the open, into the public discourse is uh actually a bit of a of a gift.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So Cena's been actually working on this um uh behind the scenes, and I'm gonna let her lead off and we'll see where she goes with these discussions of measles and vaccines and other things.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to start off, Joel, by saying that I think this is a really great time in history because at least in medical history for our country, because I have found a whole bunch of stories.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot in the press right now about um vaccines, but in particular about people starting to talk about them.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I know you and I on the show were really um supporters of informed decisions.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So whether or not people choose to vaccinate, I feel like it's none of my business.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you do what you feel compelled to do.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: We just want people to have the information so they can make the informed decision.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like right now there's momentum behind that sentiment.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, uh on September 8th is the first time that Canadian lawmakers are hearing testimony from Canadians who are injured by a COVID vaccine.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Allison Inquiry, uh, led by a Canadian conservative member of Parliament, um, Dean Allison.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Senator uh Johnson, Ron Johnson from Wisconsin, uh here in the U.S., is actually speaking or actually spoke at that um, you know, at that inquiry meeting.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, uh an American senator spoke at a Canadian Parliament meeting.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so this one, so it wasn't like an official meeting.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this was um this can this conservative member of parliament is hosting this what's called the Allison inquiry.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a kind of um, it's a kind of uh uh it's called a senatorial side hustle.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so if he's invited other people and they're streaming it, you know, you could actually live stream it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh one of the main guests is Senator Johnson.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we have, you know, this is now it's it's like a globe, it's become a global issue, and there's people working together in these different countries um to actually kind of to help bring truth about.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I saw the opening of it, and he talks about how uh and and so this is the Canadian lawmaker, and off the bat, he rambled off things like the government hid myocarditis reports.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's the ejections may cause cancer, there's flawed science, there's corruption um in industry, government, and academia, like on and on.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and so here's one example.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Then you go over to Australia, and there's actually this Australian event that is calling for a Royal Commission into COVID, and they're having uh doctors, um, academics, lawyers, politicians, one politician who was censored on YouTube is attending this event.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Barry Young is gonna be there.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Have you heard his story, this New Zealand whistleblower?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I haven't heard his, but but just before we but just to make sure we're bringing all of our listeners along with us, everybody needs to realize is as bad as as bad as COVID was in the U.S., I mean, as far as public policy, Canada and Australia, I can tell you, were two or three time magnitudes worse than the U.S.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: in COVID policy.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Cena, we had a we had a lady in the farm store, uh, her brother is it lives in Australia.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: She was in the farm store uh buying something, and she told me she'd that morning she'd gotten a call from her brother in Australia.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: He'd gone out to the curb to pick up the newspaper.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when he got about 20 feet from his front door, a drone came, hovered over him with a loudspeaker saying, Get back in your house because he had ventured too far from his house.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot leave your house unless you gave a 15-minute pre-warning registry to the a government, a government database, who you were, where you were going, and then when you got to wherever you were going, you had to check in within 15 minutes that you got there to the government database.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was wow, it it it made us look like like we were a free country.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I think I think the fact that Canada and Australia are the first two countries you're talking about in having this discussion is significant because they they were they were so um draconian in their in their covet responses compared to the US.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and we have uh one of our listeners, Barry Green, uh is the one who tipped me off to that event.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: He he lives there in um Australia, and he's on Taurus Radio, you know, great guy.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he was telling me that so this is a global event now because you have somebody from New Zealand, you have somebody from America.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's Senator Johnson's gonna be there again.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And this Royal Commission into COVID, it's the most powerful inquiry he said that they could get.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: He also said that the mood, he thinks the mood of the people there in Australia is turning against the major parties.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like they've had enough, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: They they want um transparency, accountability, you know, just some honesty.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I I think it's a big deal.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the New Zealand whistleblower, in short, um, he was a database administrator and um he built the uh New Zealand um COVID vax database and he he said that he had found um disease clusters uh linked to the vaccine and he released the data.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's my understanding that he released it to the public and then he faced legal repercussions.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So he was arrested in December of 2023.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: He was charged with accessing a computer system for dishonest purposes.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And he felt that people had a right to know.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like people were dying, children were dying.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: He pleaded not guilty, it's in court now.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the court apparently is reviewing if he qualifies for whistleblower status.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the latest I heard, uh, Barry sent this was that this the information, you know, this data that that is in this system is being withheld from the judge.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the other lawyer is saying that we're not gonna let you see it.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the judge has said, No, you need to let me see it.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is this is absurd.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: It it's it's it's really crazy.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's even there was even a paper, I found this, a paper published um out of the University Um of Auckland, if I'm saying that right, business school.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is in June of 2025, defending Barry, saying that the government is not transparent and accountable.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, quote, whistleblowers have become the last line of defense for safeguarding the public interest.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's the the article goes on to say that protecting public sector whistleblowers is not only a moral duty, but also a practical necessity.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: But whistleblowers can still face criminal charges when they disclose government information to the public.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so they're saying they don't deserve to go to jail, right?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what else are you gonna do in a system where the government is not being transparent and not accountable?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's why we have whistleblower protection laws.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so I'm following this one.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see what happens.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is he is now he came to this Australian event as well.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So again, people from other countries are coming together.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then in the UK, you know, the government has just changed hand hands.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: They have a new prime minister.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a letter that was sent by over 160 medical doctors, scientists, other health professionals, and some public figures like Woody Harrelson and Rob Schneider.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they they've signed this open letter that is demanding rigorous, independent inquiry into the potential harms of the vaccine.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying that the boosters should be stopped until the data has been independently examined um and there's like a review panel on it.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's Canada, Australia, the UK, I mean, they're they're all right now holding these events and submitting, you know, uh asking for accountability.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, these these are these these are all primarily British uh British cultures.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're all they're all pretty British cultures.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and um if I could just add a a little um oh a little personal uh note here, you know, I've I've I've been to Australia 16 times, uh been to Canada way more than that, and the UK uh a bunch of times as well.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, speaking, and and you know, it's amazing those those those British kind of leftover British um uh cultures, they're they're way uh they're way more conformant con conforming than Americans.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Americans, I mean, we were rebels, you know.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: We threw off the British, we got rid of the king.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean rebellion and and distrust of authority is kind of in our DNA, in American DNA, but Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, they didn't throw off the throw off the king, and they're much more willing to just bow and take it, if you will.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just just you know, go on.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and be because they didn't um they didn't throw off anything in their um in their respective histories.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and and you I really see it in they're just not as um as free loving as Americans.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I tell a joke, and here in America, you know, you tell a joke and people just you know, they fall out of their chairs and laugh, and they're perfect completely, you know, um spontaneous and free.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: In those cultures, it's a very controlled, you know, um, you know, a very um we're we're royalty, you know, and we have to put on uh a certain decorum.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um we can't be just uh free-spirited like you, uh you uh rambunctious Americans.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: We have a certain uh you know modicum of civility we have to you know put forth.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So so for those kind for those countries to be coming to this point is way more profound than if America were coming to this point.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're kind of wild, free, rebellious spirits that rambunctious, yeah, yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, so that's fantastic.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: That yeah, and and again, you know, your it's your choice, whatever you're choosing to do.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm just saying I think it's great that we're having conversations about it.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um because that's the whole point.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's discuss it.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's the secrecy, it's it's the secrecy that's so culturally destructive.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, that's what's going on right now with the with the pushback on data centers, um because of the secrecy and these these uh non-disclosure agreements and all these local local elect local elected uh um uh politicians that that that can't discuss what's coming to town and what the plan is and what the tax concession is.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they got all these NDAs, and and so it's just they're all I'm not here to take a big position pro or negative on data centers.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: All I know is that the that you don't help yourself by trying to cloud the controversy in secrecy.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the only the only way you can move beyond mistrust and uh and and all of that is um is transparency, get it out in the open.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I I agree with you.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's I think it's wonderful uh that this is happening.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's too bad it's so late, you know.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of, well, glad you finally showed up to the game, you know.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but we'll take it.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So speaking of mistrust, uh, I don't know if you've been following what's happening in Pennsylvania, but it's a hotbed right now.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: This this is crazy.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of people posting that they no longer trust the governor, Shapiro, um, and they're saying they're calling him a liar.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is the thing because they're not being transp, he was not being transparent um with information.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's jump into that story next.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I want to tell you though, I'm excited to share what I have found today because that story sparked like a maternal instinct in me, and I went down the rabbit hole.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I have some great things to share about how to protect your children uh from measles.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so first, so the um the if you haven't been following, the governor of Pennsylvania came out, had this like press conference, uh, I believe it was August 25th, and saying that two people in Pennsylvania had died that were from uh measles associated deaths.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So they had died from some kind of a you know illness that was associated with measles, and that they were unvaccinated.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Kennedy posted on X that the governor uh may have fabricated the cases because the governor would not disclose information about the two deaths, and they were trying to get information, so people were talking to the coroner, for example, and the coroner was not corroborating the story that the governor was saying.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so Shapiro fought back and accused Kennedy of playing games.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean it was it was pay pretty much like mudslinging, you know.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it became a a national news story.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: New York Times, you know, legacy media outlets ran headlines saying things like six-week-old infant died from measles, the Lancaster coroner said.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: But there wasn't any explanation, any follow-ups.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So what we know now at this point of us recording this is that there were two deaths in Pennsylvania.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: The they were both in infants.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, infants are too young to get the MMR vaccine.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So they could not have been vaccinated, right, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So they are it is true that the two deaths were unvaccinated individuals, but they did not qualify to get the vaccine.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: They were in Lancaster County, right, home of the largest Amish pop Amish population.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: One of the infants has the last I read, the coroner confirmed that the infant tested positive for measles, but did not die of measles.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: That infant died of a lacerated spleen.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: The second infant had a fatal genetic.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Was it an injury?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the last report I read, this was not from the coroner, this was from somebody else, said that it may have been during labor that the spleen was lacerated.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: A birthing, a birthing injury.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, you know, unconfirmed at the time of us recording this, but that is the leading theory that I read.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: The second infant had a fatal um genetic defect, is what they how they've described it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that specific defect leads to a very small brain, which impairs the immune system.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And typically babies born with that genetic defect don't live past six months, and they are typically killed by some sort of respiratory virus.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So even a common cold can can kill them.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: That baby was tested positive for measles, and the last I read that one was declared as um caused by measles, and that's based on the CDC's definition of how to classify a death.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of reminiscent of COVID caused by or you know, died with this one, I believe, based on the CDC's definition, you have to list it as the cause of death because it was the measles, you know, that that triggered this demise based on this underlying genetic condition.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: For that second baby, the second infant who died, um, this is the one that had the genetic defect.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: The they haven't actually told us how they determined that the baby had measles.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: There they've said that the doctors, like the attending and treating medical doctors, evaluated and diagnosed this baby with measles based on like clinical findings and medical history.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't know at this point, uh as of the recording right now, we don't know if they used like antibody tests or they used PCR testing.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: If they used antibody testing, then it's possible that the mother had measles at some point and developed antibodies against it and transferred those protective antibodies to the baby.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So in that situation, the presence of antibodies in the baby could actually indicate protection against measles.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: The other path is if they used PCR or polymerase chain reaction testing.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And in that sense, then we don't know how many cycles, for example, they used to determine if a quote-unquote virus was present.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So did they use too many cycles?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: We saw this.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is the same playbook that we've seen in recent history.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that has to still be teased out.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Kennedy is not convinced, apparently, that measles caused that death of that second child, the second infant.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it has not been posted yet on the CDC website, and they said they're looking into it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: So he's not convinced.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's waiting for this information to come out.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I want to say that I know we have a varied audience, and measles is is defined as a quote unquote virus by mainstream medicine and science.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: And You know, that and that means the PCR testing may be totally void anyway.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that is a bigger topic than what we're gonna cover today.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not discounting or dismissing that.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm gonna bring you some new evidence, um, a brand new study that's been released about um transmissibility of um measles and such.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to just bear with me because today we're just gonna talk about what mainstream is saying.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I am separately doing this deep dive into what do I think measles actually is.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: There is a strong micronutrient deficiency component to measles, but we're only gonna touch on that today.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Again, this is a huge topic, so just stay with us on this.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if anyone's interested in me doing that kind of deep dive into what do we think measles actually is, um, and what is transmission and you know, things like that, then let us know.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Send us a message, let us know.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: For right now, we're just gonna go with what's being talked about on the mainstream, um, and you know, the data that we have at hand.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time of this recording, the CDC said that they're gonna review the cases.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and they they've been trying to review it, they've been having a hard time getting information.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's one of the reasons why Kennedy fought back and said that basically this is this is a political stunt that you're doing because why aren't you giving us the information?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, this went back and forth, and it prompted me to actually start looking at, well, what information do we have on measles?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And like how deadly is this?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as a as a mom.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right, wait, but before you go there, um were both of these so one infant was how old were these?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the one if if it was it was if it was in delivery, it was an injury in delivery, that baby was that you an infinite, an infinite, an infant can be anything from you know a day old to six months old.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm I'm not a I'm not a pediatrician, but I would call a six month old an infant.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so how old were these?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Was one just literally hours old and the other one a day, or how old were they?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the one case that involved a ruptured spleen, it was a a newborn.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they're saying.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: A newborn.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: The other one was six weeks old.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Six weeks old baby girl from the Amish community.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, died from a respiratory died from a measles-induced respiratory illness.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Were both of them were both of them Amish children?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I believe so.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let me see.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I'm going somewhere with this.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just um I I I think from from what I've read or heard, they were both Amish children.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: They were both Amish in uh Lancaster.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh and that started a bit of a uh what would be the word?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a bit of a push is too gentle, but uh a kind of um a coup in the Amish community uh from Governor Shapiro to get Amish kids vaccinated and to you know to to to kind of single out the Amish community as a problem.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and so they've done some things that have been called out by some alternative media.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the questions that I had was why did he hold a big press conference on this, you know, like and and and okay.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I've got I've got a theory for you.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, go ahead.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't read I haven't read this anywhere, but I am extremely friendly with the Amish communities around the country and the biggest ones in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's the biggest one.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in the last election is the first time that thousands of Amish voted.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: The Amish are conscientious objectures, they they're uh they're pacifists, so they don't do military, they don't vote, uh, they they take a very strong position that we're not of this world, we're pilgrims passing through, and so we're we're we're disinvolved uh from the world.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and one of those is that they don't vote.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: But in the last election, uh there was a pretty aggressive push in Lancaster to uh register them, to get them to the polls.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Many of them voted for the first time.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you um numerous political pundits, we'll just say it that way, have said Trump won Pennsylvania.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was just enough votes for Trump to win Pennsylvania.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Amish don't vote for Democrats.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'll just I'll just I know them well enough.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: They don't vote for Democrats.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're vibrantly right to life, they're vibrantly, you know, leave us alone, small government, low taxes.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so uh they are vibrantly um Republican, even though even though they would never sign up as a Republican, you know, uh they would never join anything.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so there's a there's a lot of resentment in Pennsylvania Democrats of what they consider to be a um an unprecedented involvement in the election that they can kind of count on the Amish as being uh you know a non-starter, they're a non-entity in the election.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, suddenly they became an entity.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a lot of resentment there.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So are you saying it's retaliation for them voting for Trump?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm saying that that is a possible theory, yes.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yay, because that was one of my possibilities I wrote down.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so it it could be uh you know, retaliation.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Also, it could be um a land grab.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Katherine Austin Fitz talks about how she thinks a land grab is happening because they want the Amish land.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, and so this might be part of trying to chase them off.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if you've been following in New York, they may have implemented a similar tactic.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: So just to get people up to speed, New York ended um in in 2019 under Governor Cuomo, they basically ended your right to exercise religious exemption from school vaccine requirements.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they impose fines if you don't comply.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a one-room Amish schoolhouse in upstate New York that is currently facing a combined$118,000 in state fines because they will not comply with that new state law.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, basically, they're not giving their children the vaccines.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, these are private schools, they don't receive government funding, you know, from what I can find, but the government is charging them a$2,000 civil penalty penalty per violation.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And each day that each unvaccinated student attends school is a separate violation.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: So as long as the kids are in school, they're gonna keep running up this bill.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the Amish families in the school sued the state.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: They said that it was an attack on their First Amendment right, you know, religious freedom.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened is the case was actually rejected by the Second U.S.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Circuit Court of Appeals.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: The lawyers, the their lawyers petitioned the Supreme Court in July of 2025.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: In December, the Supreme Court sent the case back to the Second U.S.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Circuit Court of Appeals and ordered the court to reconsider the case.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: In July of this year, the that circuit court again ruled against the Amish family.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And just last month in August, attorneys for the Amish announced they're gonna petition the U.S.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Supreme Court again to take up this court, uh, this case, they're gonna file it in September.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's the thing, Joel.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: If the Supreme Court takes up the case and they they um you know rule against them or they decline this, you know, second petition and New York continues to enforce fines, their attorney, which happens to be Aaron Seary, says that it could result in the government uh confiscating the Amish land in order to be able to pay the debts.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: So just think about the you know, um when I was in college in the late 1970s, the Ohio Supreme Court, and this didn't go to the U.S.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Supreme Court, but the Amish were in the Ohio's went to the Ohio Supreme Court who ruled in their favor.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of people don't realize that pre-1960s the Amish kids went to public schools.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the Amish kids went to public schools all up until the late 1960s.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Late about 19 late 1960s, 1970, the Amish were so were so fed up with the public schools that they started doing their own schools.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's when the Amish schools started.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and um so Ohio Department of Public Education took the Amish schools to court um for tru for truancy.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: That that that that these were not real schools.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and so they were, you know, you're you're not letting your kids go to school, you know, truancy violations.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: It went all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court, and um this was on when I was on the debate team in college, and so we were following this very closely, and because I was at a private college, and um and the Amish won, and at that time the Ohio Supreme Court created the um the uh the criteria differentiating a belief, a religious belief, a conviction, from a preference.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh and and they said the First Amendment does not protect preference, it only protects conviction.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they created a a checklist of if if your belief is uh moves to a place of a religious conviction versus just a preference.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the some of the rules that might be interesting to you, um, I well, I can't remember them all, but one is uh you have a true conviction if if you don't require if if believing it and standing for it does not require anybody else to stand with you.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: All right, that's one.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um because in the courtroom, as you can imagine, the Amish, they they of course, you know, they they use the Bible a lot, and uh and they invoked they said they they they pointed across there was a public school across the street actually from the courtroom in the final court hearing.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they they said that school there, that's a Philistine school.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's the Philistines.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a school too.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um and they're both schools, but one is one is biblical and one is Philistine.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh that's the way they separate.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Another criteria was that um that no no um coercion can make you change your mind.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um in other words, no threat, no coercion, no incentive.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing that can make you change your mind.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: So these were and and and my understanding is that these are still, they were landmark, that was a landmark case.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was uh Ohio versus Levi Wisner.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's how much I remember that.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um Levi Wisner was the Amish, was was the Amish guy.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and and he prevailed.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and my understanding is that those, you know, like four uh stipulations are still used today to defend religious liberty.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow in in American in American courts.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's fascinating to me.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what's really fascinating to me is that at that time the the Amish won basically saying our school is our church, they're not two different entities.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Our church is our school, our school is our church, and they won on religious liberty.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Today in New York, we're back with the Amish, and the state is saying the same thing.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're a school, not it's this, it's the same argument, but not from a curriculum, it's from a it's from a health mandate.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's the same issue, it's the same issue, the same people.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: One one was a one was a truancy, your your right, your right to not go to a public school, and now it's your right to not go to any school that the government deems fits a school definition of a school.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it almost seems like so they won the case that the church is the school, and now there's like, oh, well, now that you're a school, you have to now abide by our rules and they have to be vaccinated.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're seeing this pr progression, we're seeing this legal thinking progression, um, which is which is far worse now, the the the way they're interpreting this in New York.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what they're saying is here's the definition of a school.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, teacher, students, building, I mean you know, I don't know, whatever, whatever their criteria is.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a school.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: And in order to go to a school, um, you know, you have to be vaccinated.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's a and so so here we are back in New York.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I think they're gonna have to argue again, this is not a school, it's a church.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be back to the same argument that they won in Ohio back in the mid-1970s.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I was thinking about this case, and I thought, so why should the typical American care?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're not Amish.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: But if they can get to the Amish, right?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: If they can force the Amish to say, oh, well, you don't get religious exemption for vaccination, I feel like all the dominoes fall.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh any any private school of any stripe of anything is going is going to be uh put in the same in the same uh box.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because the Amish are kind of like that last, that last stronghold.
• 38:45
  unknown: Right.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the like if if anybody has a religious conviction, it'll be them.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was gonna um read this to you to see what you think because uh one of the Amish fathers, Joseph Miller, he's the lead plaintiff in this New York school um fines case.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: He submitted a statement, a written statement to the U.S.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Supreme Court.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and this was uh last year.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm when I I'm gonna read this to you, Joel.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: And as I'm reading this, think of when was the last time you had this much conviction?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like this was moving to me.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: He said, our forefathers came to America for freedom of religion and concerns of living a God-fearing life and bringing up our children in a way to hope through salvation and everlasting life in eternity.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: To do this, we need to put our full trust in the Almighty, Almighty God.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, our Almighty, Almighty God wants us to fully put our faith and trust in Him, which is in conflict to put our trust in vaccines.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: We are commanded to not be conform to this world.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: And since some of the vaccines are based on fetal or aborted cell lines, we believe it would be an abomination to our creator to inject such into our bodies.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Then um, the the next one, Ezra Wingard, the Amish elder, he was elected by the community to represent the New York Amish schools in dealing with the state.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Check this out, Joel.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: He said the Amish will choose prison time or a martyr's death before going against their convictions.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he says it's our utmost desire is to live a quiet, peaceful, undisturbed life and obey those in authority over us.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: But once those laws are in conflict with what the Bible teaches, then we are commanded to obey God rather than man.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it takes my breath away.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's straight out of that.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's what Peter, that's what Saint Peter told, you know, the um the Roman guards when they came to tell him, you know, to quit uh Acts, uh John, the the the original apostles, um that we will um nobody nobody can tell us not to preach in in this name, the name of Jesus.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just yeah.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's straight.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's quoting straight out of the straight out of uh Acts, the early church stuff.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk yeah, yeah.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about conviction conviction versus preference.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that screams conviction to me.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: I wish we could all be so convicted.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's um okay, so here's how New York State responded.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a senator on record of j who just who's trying to justify the 2019 repeal of religious exemption.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is what he said.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: The matter of fact is that religious exemption in New York State is made up.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's fake because there is no religion that objects to vaccines.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Not Islam, not Catholicism, not um Judaism.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: There and an assembly amend went on record that says there's nothing, nothing in the Jewish religion, the Christian religion, the Muslim religion that suggests that you can't get vaccinated.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is just utter garbage.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: So literally that's how they think of it.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my goodness, that that's what the Amish are up against there.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I will tell you, interestingly, so I think this is like I'm saying, this is all kind of coming to a head, not only globally, but you know, here in America.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you have you have that case coming, you have um you have Kennedy on X on August 25th, the same day that the Pennsylvania governor came out with that press release claiming those two people, you know, unvaccinated people died for um uh you know, measle associated.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: You had Kennedy posting a video on X.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was a deposition of Stanley Plotken.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: He was the inventor of the MMR vaccine.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: This video is where Plotten Plotkin admits to using 76 aborted babies in studies that led to the to the development of the MMR vaccine.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: All of those 76 aborted babies were apparently over three months old and normally developing.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got Kennedy posting that on X, which verifies, you know, validates what the Amish are saying.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is against their religious belief.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of it's kind of trying to poke a hole in this belief of this vaccine narrative that's been created in our culture.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think there's a lot of politics happening behind the scenes, as we've talked about.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also um there's a there's a poll that came out that said that the vaccine issue is dividing Republicans.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the midterms were coming up, and if that poll is true, and you know, if Trump and the Republicans got a hold of that poll, then They may be trying to shift the perception, right?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to grab some of these voters.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And because why else would all of a sudden Kennedy be allowed to post this video talking about aborted babies in the MMR vax, which is the same MM, it's the same vaccination that the governor is trying to get the Amish to take right now.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so aborted using aborted babies is a Republican issue, right?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: So would a so by the New York definition, would a homeschool be a school?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know what the New York definition of school is, but probably, I mean, I think they just took it all out, right?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: That you can't have you can no longer have a religious exemption from the I mean, that's a really good question.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's from schools in general, like all schools.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean here, I can look at the.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Weak argumentation um by saying the word vaccine is not in the Bible.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um because that that's called that's called arguing from the silence.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: And there are lots of things that aren't in the Bible.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: There, you know, there's no computers, there's no Coca-Cola, there's no um, there's no automobiles, um, no McDonald's, no Happy Meals, um, no um the word the word pornography is not in the Bible.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's you you can't you can't argue from the silence of a historic document.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's simply not um not an argument that holds water.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so for him to invoke just because it doesn't say something means that um that the the principles surrounding this don't have um religious ramifications or biblical ramifications.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean look is is um it's a it's a pretty vacuous it's a pretty vacuous argument.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I looked it up you you can still homeschool in New York and not vaccinate, okay?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you're strictly homeschooled.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yes, so to your point, so it could be retaliation against you know the Amish uh for their vote, uh for the Republican vote.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you follow that land grab uh theory, then there's a clear path where the state can get their land, right?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Suing them for fines in New York, that can happen.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: And actually 25,000 Amish in New York are discussing leaving the state right now over vaccines.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Joel, if they leave the state, it's a win-win for New York because not only do they get the I'm assuming they could get the land because right, they have to pay the debt, but also the those Republican votes leave.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the the land, the land would simply be, it would, it would just simply go on the market and be able to be purchased by you know whoever wants to purchase it.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I I don't think that land would go to the state.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um it would it would it would stay in the private sector, but the um but the but it would not be owned by the Amish.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I don't know.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Siri is saying that it can result in confiscation of the land to pay the debts.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: So well hundred and eighty-six thousand dollars, believe me, believe me, huh, um the Amish are not gonna let the money determine what they do.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if if if if uh for$186,000, they'll just pass a hat, pick up an offering, and pay it.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: So so I I I don't see it as a confiscation of land.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I see it as a as a I mean as chasing them off.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I get that, but I don't see it as a state confiscating their land.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: I see it as a situation that becomes so untenable that a group of people leaves leaves an area.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and and um because trust me, the the Amish are not gonna let this build up to a million and then two million and three million, it ain't gonna happen.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Ain't gonna happen.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's more of a um, well, okay, so there's a couple ideas that I had as well.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: So one is running them off, like you're saying.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other is it could be, I mean, and obviously I think it's more than one thing.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just you know one strategy, but they could be trying to remove the quote unquote control group in this vaccine experiment that's going on um in the world.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, so now interestingly, so the Amish are thought of as kind of this last stronghold in or the last control group in the vaccine debate because most people think that they're not vaccinated.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's not entirely true.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, as you said, Lancaster County is the home of the largest Amish settlement in the country.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: And according to uh the Pennsylvania state and local officials, they're saying that the community, the Amish community in Lancaster County, has 25% of the Amish vaccinated against MMR.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the government itself is saying 25% of them, a quarter of them are already vaccinated against MMR.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what they've done is they're putting in these MMR pop-up clinics across the state.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: They started that in April.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: They have 91 of them up.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's 40 more of these pop-up clinics planned.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one of their statistics says that they've already administered over 4,000 MMR doses to the Amish at these clinics.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: So they're popping up these clinics in the Amish community, right?
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're bringing the vaccine to them.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also turn uh said I also read that they're doing in-home immunization services.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that, you know, door-to-door, they have buggy clinics, they're doing pop-up vaccination booths at MUD sales, which are their community auctions.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing visits to the Amish schoolhouses.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this is all actually documented in their state's technical um like their strategy that that it's it's all listed there in the strategy.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know what's amazing is how fast the government can move when they really get behind something.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: When they're motivated, like Man, oh man.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think about the the logistics, the people to hire, the pop-up, the the infrastructure, the walls.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, man, oh man.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if they if they really want to do something, they can they can do it.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: They can make it happen.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: And yep, fast.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so if that's true that they're trying to remove the control group, we know that they have these pop-up clinics.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: We we know that they're pressuring the Amish to get vaccinated by singling them out in you know in the media, in these press releases.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and actually, in uh there was a there was another measles outbreak in 2014.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: In that measles outbreak, I was in Ohio and in that measles outbreak, it was reported that 8,000 Amish got vaccinated.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: So 8,000.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they they accepted the mass vaccination.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason, according to this scientific article, is the public shame.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the media singled them out, yeah, and there's public shame around being singled out, and that they caused the public health crisis, and that increased their compliance.
• 53:04
  unknown: Right.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: So this may be a repeat of that.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Single them out, cause the shame, you know, and they'll do it.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um the what's also interesting is this is making the rounds in more of alternative news.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: Around the Amish community, some chemicals are being sprayed.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying that, oh, this is just standard, we're spraying against West Nile and we're spraying against mosquitoes.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the chemicals that's being sprayed is thought to result in measles-like symptoms.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the other sprays contains synthetic pyrethroids, and those have been associated with autism in a UC Davis study.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: So coincidence?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is it coincidence that they're spraying a chemical that can make you appear to have measles symptoms and could also uh make you, you know, have autism, or is this intentional?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I have no idea, but it's interesting.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's uh that's almost as sinister as saying uh George Bush brought down the Twin Towers.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're saying this is just routine stuff.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: And in either way, though, whether it's intentional or whether it's coincidence, why are we spraying chemicals into the air into these communities that could cause that are known to actually cause autism, you know, um, and can mimic measles.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: This this seems like a bad idea.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of the chemicals is a neurotoxin.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: This just seems like a bad idea.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, whatever the intention is, I'm glad that this is starting to come to light so people are aware of what's happening.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's all about informed consent, you know?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so oh, and the reason why that connection to autism is important is because they're giving them, they're trying to get the Amish to comply with getting the the Measles Mumps Rebella MMR vaccine.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a hotly debated topic for a long time is whether or not the MMR vaccine causes autism, right?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: The government is adamant that it doesn't.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where you have um Andrew Wakefield, who was um he's a researcher.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I most people probably know this story, so I won't belabor it, but this was back in '98.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: He published a case series in a Lancet um scientific journal where he reported regressive autism um being associated with inflammation of the colon.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: And this was in children who were vaccinated with the MMR vaccine.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: And 12 years later, the study was actually retracted.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is the time when he was about to publish the second study.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this second study revealed that there's abnormal neurological development in male monkeys after they got one dose of a thimerosol-containing HEP B vaccine at birth, so mercury-containing vaccine.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: That second publication, the manuscript was accepted.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was published electronically, and then it was removed without any explanation.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly, it was printed in a different journal without his name on it.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if people don't know, like Wakefield was um he was basically dragged over the coals, right?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: He was discredited, they took his license away.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it it was really bad.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um, he was said to be a fraud.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: And now what's happened is that there's actually been uh people saying that maybe Wakefield is vindicated because uh Paul, oh, what's his name?
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Paul Thorsen?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Paul Thorsen was uh he actually just uh pleaded guilty of um oh I just lost my notes.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh do you know that story?
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well I yeah, he pleaded guilty to um what was it, falsifying data or something?
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's so he didn't plead guilty to falsifying data, but what happened was so he was actually a former CDC Center for Control Disease Prevention Scientist, and he played a really critical role in building up research that was debunking any link between vaccines and autism.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: And his research was used in part to debunk Andrew Wakefield's research, right?
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and to basically pile on that Wakefield lied.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like they accused Wakefield of falsifying all this data.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the CDC guy uh was pled guilty to wire fraud and money laundering.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: He he faces two counts of wire fraud, nine counts of money laundering.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, he allegedly took about a million dollars in CDC grant money, and he used that grant money to buy a home, two cars, and a motorcycle when the funds were really earmarked for autism and public health research, but he pocketed it.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the irony here, right, the guy who helped create this pile of studies saying there's no link between autism and like MMR vaccine, for example, yeah, and said that Wakefield lied and falsified data is the guy that now has pleaded guilty to these other crimes.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so now they're thinking, okay, people have said for years, oh, um, he manipulated the data, Thorsend did, Paul Thorsen.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like, where's the proof, right?
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they're hoping that somehow the proof, the truth is gonna come out here.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um because that's the obvious question next, right?
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like if he was willing to pocket a million dollars that was earmarked for autism research, did he cheat on the data?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how did they have the money to fund these studies if he took it?
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we we don't know that, right?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is speculation at this point, but um we do know that other people should be called into investigation as well.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, Thorson's direct grant supervisor was Dr.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Diana Um Shendel.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: And apparently they were um intimate with each other.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: And she approved all of his invoices for the expenditures from the CDC grant money.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, did she know what was going on?
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was she part of this?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, they did have that romantic relationship.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and she actually later accepted a position at Denmark's um RS University, leading autism research over there.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: So Thorson Thorsen is not American.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's uh Norwegian, I think, right?
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or Swedish.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: He's Scandinavian.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they they nabbed him, they nabbed him in uh Germany or Austria, Austria or something when he was traveling, and um they that that's how they got him back to the US to face charges.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, it's all uh it's all a pretty um uh seamy affair, isn't it?
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is okay.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um that also just hit the newsstands with you know, so it leads more credence to Wakefield's data.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I will say, I started looking into the literature because I'm wondering, well, who who's right here?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: And did they really just bury Wakefield because you know, Big Pharma got to them, for example?
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I found that in 2006 there was a um vaccine strain of measles reported in the bowel lesions of autistic children.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: And now this was preliminary of a preliminary report, and that that research work was stalled due to lack of funding, right?
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because who's gonna fund that?
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: You find uh a strain of measles that was caused by a vaccine in the bowel lesions of an autistic child.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna fund that work, right?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's another study by a Japanese group, and they were able to publish their data, and their data revealed that um RNA from uh like measles, so you know, measles will have its own genome.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that RNA from measles was found in the white blood cells of um three patients with ulcerative colitis and nine autistic children who also had the intestinal issues that Wakefield had identified in his research.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, get this, Joel.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: The sequence, the RNA sequence of the measles that they had were consistent with the vaccine, the vaccine strains.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, meaning vaccine strain measles virus was found in these patients, meaning that there the research is starting to make a connection and has been making a connection between getting the vaccine and getting not only autism joel, but ulcerative colitis.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they also found the vaccine strain in children with um autoimmune hepatitis.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: And some of these researchers are reporting that that vaccine strain can be in the body for many years after the person got vaccinated.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, I mean, that was a new finding too.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, your body basically, it's a live attenuated virus.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: So your body basically replicates it at some low level.
• 1:03:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but anyway, that's a new one that came out.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but here's the other thing I was going to share with you that could be a possible reason why they're targeting the the Amish here is number one, I think the governor of Pennsylvania probably wants to score points with the media and the Democrats.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and right now, because he wants to run for president, right?
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if he is if if he is going against Secretary Kennedy and Trump, then it's probably gonna score him some points, right?
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: So double downing on uh put you know, gonna double down on the vaccines and the message that the Democrats want to hear.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the other one, you probably already know this.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: But guess where the MMR vaccine is made.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have no idea where it's made.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: China, I suppose.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know I that was that would have been my first guess too.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: China.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's made in Pennsylvania.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, made in Pennsylvania.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it does really just come down to money.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's made in uh Pennsylvania by Merck, and um it is made in their like largest pharmaceutical vaccine manufacturing facility in the U.S.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: The governor in 2025 actually boasted that more than one half of all vaccines that are administered in the United States are made in Pennsylvania.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: So in Pennsylvania, vaccine production is responsible for 4,700 jobs, and it generates about 4.74 billion dollars for Pennsylvania's economy.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of money.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's got to keep the vaccine manufacturers happy.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's this whole long list.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just Merck.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: So um Merck actually in July of this year, we found out that they invested nearly$3 billion to expand their campus in Pennsylvania.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was in July we found that out.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was late August that the Pennsylvania Department of Health ramped up their um vaccination campaign with those pop up vaccination clinics ramping up.
• 1:06:00
  unknown: Up.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was August 25th that Shapiro announced the two measles associated deaths.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it could be coincidence in timing.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: GSK, another uh, you know, vaccine company, is also located, you know, in Pennsylvania.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: They've increased their footprint in Lancaster County.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: They got$21 million in state subsidies.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: Eli Lilly in January of this year got$100 million in Pennsylvania state subsidies.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so Niffee Pasture just in June got$10.6 million in Pennsylvania grants.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: They, by the way, make over 40% 42% of all the U.S.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: flu vaccine doses.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: So Pennsylvania seems to be in bed with pharmaceutical companies, you know.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: So they might have a little bit of a bias there and they do need to keep them happy.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's got his economy there in Pennsylvania has to do well if he wants to run for president.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: So just one more reason that they might want okay.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: So Cena, we're almost out of time.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you told me at the top of the program that you were that this all pushed you into diving into a little bit uh of your uh your mother hen uh uh mother hen protective instinct about protecting your kids from measles, and if they get it, what can you do?
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes in a couple minutes, can you run by a little bit of protocol that you've um that you've found on that on that end of the problem?
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, definitely.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um I didn't I have like 20 pages of notes here that we didn't get to, but let me tell you like so the bottom line, and if if listeners want, we can go into this more in a later podcast.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: But a couple things that I found that helped me to not be afraid.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some of these are remedies, and then some is the overall trajectory of measles history.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: Measles used to be really feared, and it did kill a lot of people.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this was even in the 1800s.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: There were measle epidemics that occurred about every two years in the US and in England, and up to about 20% of children died on average.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a very, very big deal, okay.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um by 1960, the mortality fell in, for example, England and Wales to 0.03%.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: So people still got measles, but it was usually mild in the developed world.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in the US by the 60s, by the by 1960, the deaths from measles, the mortality rate was 0.24 per 100,000.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's 0.00024%.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was a 98% decrease from the peak.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: So have I emphasized enough for you how much it declined by 1960?
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody on the same page.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was pretty much gone.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: Was that because of the vaccine?
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was not because of the vaccine.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, this is the biggest misnomer.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the vaccine wasn't even licensed until 1963.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: So by 1960, I gave you the stats.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: There practically were no deaths.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: By the time the vaccine was licensed, there were zero deaths in Massachusetts.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: The Washington state death rate was 0.3 per 100,000.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's the 0.003%.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: Deaths from asthma, Joel, were 56 times greater.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't the vaccine.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then people will say it was antibiotics.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't the antibiotics.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: Penicillin wasn't even mass produced until um 1944.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: And by the 1930s, the chance of dying from measles had already dropped to about one to two percent in the US and in England.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so why did we actually see the drop?
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was in large part because of better nutrition.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was better hygiene and better nutrition.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So this might kind of surprise people.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that went went out that went out of fashion was breastfeeding, right?
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um in the 1940s, there were about only 25% of infants initiated with with breast milk.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, it's gone up 35% in the 70s, and today it's about 75%.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_00: That uh breastfeeding protects children from measles, surprisingly, for some people.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's the a lower risk of contracting clinical measles after being breastfed.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh one study, Joel, shows that that protection can last up to 10 years.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, isn't that incredible?
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just from breastfeeding the baby.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's there's some breastfeeding in the 1860s?
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this was one I'm saying, this is something you could do now.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, but we they had they didn't have the same nutrition that that we had today.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing that a mother could do now.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or hygiene.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, 1860s, you took a bath once a month, whether you needed it or not.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: That yes, the hydrant and the nutrition.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now, um, so the other one is vitamin A.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So these are some of the the the nutrients that can help prevent um you know can getting it and um and help you if you do get it, help you not have um like complications from it.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin D, and also vitamins B, zinc, selenium, and protein can help.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to highlight vitamin A, for example.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So vitamin A um helps upregulate the innate immune system.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's actually been well known to reduce mortality and you know, other consequences.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So this has been known for a long time, Joel.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_00: In the 1920s, they theorized that vitamin A could be used to fight off disease.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was actually dubbed an anti-infective vitamin.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: In 1932, there's a report that well-nourished children rarely died or had serious complications from measles.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So they already knew this now in the 1930s.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_00: They already, scientists at that point, found that the mortality of children who are hospitalized with measles would drop by 58% if you gave them cod liver oil.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Joel, 58% drop in mortality rate just by giving cod liver oil, right?
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in the 1990s, in poor countries, so you'll still see more deaths now in poorer countries, right?
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_00: The ones that don't have as many nutrients, um, they're more nutrient deficient.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So in 1990, there was mortality rates measured in measles cases.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what they showed was that even in these poor countries, if you gave vitamin A to patients who are hospitalized with measles, you'd have a 60% reduction in the risk of death.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And in infants, you had a 90% reduction in death.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_00: 90% just from giving vitamin A.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I would do it in cod liver oil.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't think that's applicable today, then this might blow your mind.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_00: There was a study out of 1992, um, in 1992, out of California in Long Beach, where they studied 20 children with measles.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_00: 50% of them were deficient in vitamin A.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So even here in America, we're having lots of kids show up as deficient in vitamin A.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So one of my strategies is to ensure that my kids are sufficient in vitamin A and start giving them cod liver oil.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing was shown with vitamin C.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, during the 1800s, that's when we still had people dying of scurvy, right?
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and what they saw even back then is that you could give vitamin C at high doses, and it was effective at reversing it at stopping measles.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So this was even back into the 1940s.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So vitamin C is well documented, um, just like vitamin A.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there's simple things that you can do actually to protect your children um, you know, from measles.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I will say so.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_00: We could uh like I said, we can unpack this more later if people want.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_00: But there was another study that just came out.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_00: This was in August 14th of this year.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this at least should garner a conversation with people because as soon as we have a measles outbreak, the headline is the same script: unvaccinated child or unvaccinated person sparks an outbreak, and they're it was preventable, and now we have to mandate everybody gets a vaccine, right?
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sound familiar?
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's a study on record saying that if you are vaccinated against measles, you can still transmit measles.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's 70, 70, they looked at um uh so they they looked at a whole slew of people, but 70 out of 890 vaccinated people got measles.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_00: So first of all, you can still get it, you can still get measles.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_00: 70 people out of 890 who are vaccinated got measles and they passed it on.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that 7.9% of them, which um about a third of them did get two doses of MMR.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you're said to be fully vaccinated when you have the two doses, right?
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you look at how many people those 70 people, 70 those 70 people gave measles to, right?
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_00: The downstream effect, those 70 vaccinated people infected 812 people.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is documented in a scientific study.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'll put the link in the show description.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So number one, you can still get measles even if you've been vaccinated.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, you can transmit it to other people.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_00: But Joel, here's the really interesting part to me.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_00: The authors of this paper were they were so it wasn't a French paper.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the authors of this paper were from the CDC.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So one of them was a 16-year director of the CDC immunization program, one of them was CDC's measle laboratory chief, one of them was from the World Health Organization's current measle program lead, one of them was from Johns Hopkins.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one of them was a top immunization official.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_00: These are high up people who are standing behind this claim that you can still get measles and you can actually pass it along.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I see, I got a question.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: 70 vaxxed people infected 812 people.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Were those 812 people vaccinated?
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It it didn't say.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um the other thing that we don't know is that um were the transmitters carrying the wild type measles, or was this the vaccine strain virus?
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's thought that the vaccine strain virus is not transmissible.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So the person who gets the vaccine can have measles produced in their body, but it's thought that they don't transmit that.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So but this study didn't differentiate between the two types.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't have the answer to that.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what we do know now on record is that they can transmit.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a it's it's it's probably gonna be less likely in a vaccinated than an unvaccinated person.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_00: But we also have examples for over 40 years of measles outbreaks that have erupted in populations that have reported a 95% or higher vaccination rate.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_00: So in 1985 in Corpus Christi, uh these are students that had an outbreak.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_00: 99% of them were vaccinated.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_00: In Montana in 1985, again, 98%, 98.7% were vaccinated.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_00: There was one in Colorado, Quebec, Brazil, Cape Town.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_00: These were, you know, these were all um, you know, vaccinated populations.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we do have a long record of measles popping up, quote unquote outbreaks among highly vaccinated populations.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I did not know that before the mudslinging between Shapiro and Kennedy caused me to do a deep dive.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so what's interesting to me is that in our culture, it seems like we have this belief that if you're vaccinated, the only thing that's a harm to you is an unvaccinated person.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm saying is I think that deserves discussion because we're seeing in the literature itself, not fringe literature, and we're seeing in the historical records that's actually not true.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's fascinating.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um all right, so um so question.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you feed your kids collid over oil?
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I do now.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's uh I think it's a fair question.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know we have we have listeners who who do vaccine, some don't, some do.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's all over the board.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_01: But um you know, you it seems like the more you the more you know, the more this stuff comes out, the more you you just realize that um the human the human um expression is to complicate things that are simple.
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we and we just we just love to do it.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_01: We like to kind make we like to simplify the complex and uh and complex the simple.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like uh what we want to do.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Huh.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, good.
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I think you've given us a good strategy, lots to chew on here, and um fascinating politics of it all as it as it continues to um unwind.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and um our question of the day is are you giving your kids cod liver oil?
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um is is there a way to run out of cod liver oil?
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, is there plenty on the planet?
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh in the oceans?
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well I mean if if if everybody started giving cod liver oil, would it get would it make a shortage?
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so are you trying to tell us we need to stockpile?
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just I'm just um I'm just kind of thinking out loud.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm a I'm a whosoever will guy, you know.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_01: If if we have a solution, it ought to be a solution that everybody can do.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, okay, so one thing, you can't stockpile it really because it goes bad, right?
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um actually I just looked it up and it said you can have shortages, though a total permanent disappearance is unlikely.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so gosh, maybe I'm gonna before this episode, I guess I'll buy some and put it in the freezer.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like all right.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I think we've uh we we've run uh up and down around the measles here.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh thank you for diving into it, um, Cena, and um and for leaving us on a real positive note.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh give your kids some cod liver oil.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe take some yourself.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um course, you know, adults don't need it.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you've had measles, you know you don't need it.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um everybody doesn't have to take it.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually the best immunity with that you're seeing in these studies.
• 1:23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I can go on and on, and maybe people can write in or tell us too.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do they want more information on it?
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Are they confused?
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know as a mom, I want to make sure I'm doing the best possible and I don't want to live in fear.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe if people want us to do a bonus episode, we can walk through the whole history and what the research says, but I don't want to bore people with more information than they want to know.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So let us know if you want us to do a bonus episode on that.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_01: How much how much measles can you take?
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, listen, everybody.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us on another Beyond Labels podcast.
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we just appreciate you uh investing in us.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, we'll see you again next week on another Beyond Labels.