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“What Does It Mean to Be a Man? | Sophie & Jimmy Fasig Discuss the Cornell Allegations” · Stronger With Sophie

• 0:04
  Speaker A: Today we're going to talk about the Cornell rapes. This girl who's anonymous, but people are calling her Jane Doe online. She went to this fraternity house and she was gang raped by seven members of the Chi Phi fraternity at Cornell. And so tell us about that, dad.
• 0:24
  Speaker B: So ultimately, this was a situation where there's a lot of allegations against seven fraternity members who are named. Who are named. There's been a civil lawsuit filed and now a criminal investigation has been reopened. But the allegation is that the, that these seven fraternity brothers raped Jane Doe, who is an anonymous girl, that for. For like seven hours, and that they were sending texts out to other fraternity brothers saying that this girl is, is passed out and she's available to have sex with. It was a really horrible, horrible, terrible thing for our society to.
• 1:17
  Speaker A: Insane.
• 1:18
  Speaker B: Yeah. And so there. So what we want to talk about this is a podcast, Stronger with Sophie. We want to talk about how, first of all, acknowledging that this incident is a horrible mark on humanity. It is an absolute tragedy. And the question though is how can we as a society come back stronger and what can we learn from it so that we can. So that A, this kind of thing happens less often and B, that we can become a better, higher and better version of ourselves?
• 1:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:57
  Speaker B: At the end of the day, Sophie, when you hear about this story, you're 17, about to turn 18. What does it make you think in terms. I mean, how do you feel about it?
• 2:07
  Speaker A: I mean, it just. It makes me feel almost disgusted. I mean, definitely disgusted towards those men who, you know, raped her. But in general, I feel like in school and just online, girls are always taught to, you know, dress a certain way so that men don't look at you a certain way and to cover your drink and to walk with a group and to, you know, always protect yourself. But at what point does it become the man's responsibility to learn to respect women? You know, it's. It's made me start to think like, I think we're kind of teaching the wrong thing here. We're learning the wrong thing. And it's. It becomes evident when this poor girl, she was intoxicated, she wasn't able to legally consent to any sort of, you know, sexual interaction with these men. And so it just, it comes to that sort of question and it's. It's almost like it feels as though. As though it should be flipped, you know, the roles.
• 3:08
  Speaker B: So I have some really strong thoughts about this.
• 3:12
  Speaker A: Right.
• 3:12
  Speaker B: First of all, because I have three. Three daughters.
• 3:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, of course.
• 3:15
  Speaker B: But let me Tell you what the deal is. These young men, they think. I. I'm. I'm concerned that they think that having sex with a woman makes them a man. Having sex with a woman does not make. Having sex with an intoxicated woman does not make you a man. It makes you a rapist. By the way, in Florida, how. It is in. In. In New York, but in Florida, it is a crime to take advantage of someone who's intoxicated and have sex with them. That is a crime. And you can be convicted of rape. So. But a. That's. That's one of the biggest challenges, because you're talking about fraternity brothers in an Ivy League school who should know better.
• 4:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, they should.
• 4:02
  Speaker B: They're. They're educated young men.
• 4:04
  Speaker A: They are, you know, learning amongst the, you know, smartest people in the country.
• 4:09
  Speaker B: Educated young men. They're super smart, and yet they don't have the core values. Let me tell you what makes you a man is having core values.
• 4:19
  Speaker A: Morals.
• 4:20
  Speaker B: Morals where you love your family, you love your community, you respect the people around you, you respect women, you respect men, you respect everybody. So what we're talking about is a complete and total disrespect.
• 4:34
  Speaker A: And so of all your morals and all of your values, it just. It feels as though if you engage in such an act and you kind of bypass all of those standards that you should be setting for yourself, like, that destroys all of your credibility as a man in general. And looking at it from, like, a teenager's perspective, it feels as though it just kind of makes me feel a little bit disheartened and just disappointed.
• 5:01
  Speaker B: It's in general sucks that you have to worry about covering your drink when you go to a bar.
• 5:06
  Speaker A: I shouldn't have to.
• 5:07
  Speaker B: Have to worry about going to a frat party and not. You got to make sure you don't drink too much because somebody might take advantage.
• 5:14
  Speaker A: Right.
• 5:15
  Speaker B: Which I hope you're not drinking too much anyway. But at the end of the day, it sucks that you have to even think about those things.
• 5:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 5:24
  Speaker B: But here's. Here are the takeaways that I think. And I think that what happens a lot of times when we have really, really challenging things in our lives, the takeaways are learning what we don't. What we don't want. Right. For example, for society, I think this is just a massive highlighting lesson for society of who we don't want to be. Right. We do not want to be the kind of people that take advantage of women.
• 5:56
  Speaker A: Right.
• 5:57
  Speaker B: We do not want to be the kind of people that think of other people as objects. I mean, there. There was absolutely no humanity there. Absolutely didn't care about this woman's self respect, her dignity, her self worth. They had no. They had no care for that whatsoever. That is not the kind of people that we want to be. And the way that society is going to come back stronger from that is learning that lesson.
• 6:23
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 6:24
  Speaker B: Having that just kind of as a big old billboard to say, this is who we don't want to be.
• 6:29
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 6:30
  Speaker B: Right.
• 6:30
  Speaker A: Put that in your notes. Handwrite it, memorize it. But, Dad, I actually have a question for you. So you were obviously a teenager once. You were in college, and you've, you know, you've had girlfriends. So what do you think you wish you would have been taught earlier on in kind of the category of respecting women and almost just realizing their true worth?
• 6:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. What do you wish you were taught?
• 6:58
  Speaker B: I wish I was taught not, not just for the women, but also for myself. That your body is sacred.
• 7:03
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 7:04
  Speaker B: And that I, I. This is kind of something that you and I talked about, like, a week ago.
• 7:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 7:14
  Speaker B: And that is that whenever. If some. If anybody touches you, it should be. Absolutely. It should be consensual, and it should be 100% out of love. It should be an act of love.
• 7:29
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 7:30
  Speaker B: And for. And when somebody reduces sex and all sorts and any sort of romantic touching and everything like that to just a base act of. Of a gang rape. Not just gang rape, but even if it's just for nothing but lust, it actually leaves a scar, unfortunately. Jane Doe. Jane Doe has been scarred for life. But you know what's also terrible is that every single one of those young men, they are also scarred for life. And that's exactly. That is exactly the lesson that I would want. I hope society takes from that.
• 8:16
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 8:16
  Speaker B: This is. This is causing pain for not only the boys, but it's causing pain for their families. It's causing pain for their school. I mean, Cornell looks really bad. It does pay for their fraternity. It causes. And think about Jane does family and what they're going through. I mean, the misery is just astronomical and. And it's actually causing its spread throughout society. Like, you and I are even sitting here right now, and we're outraged about it.
• 8:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, we are. But. But that. Let me interrupt you for a second. That actually kind of goes on to prove that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I feel like this situation for Jane Doe specifically is. It's almost kind of encouraging for me because I've seen So much movement and so much of a community being built online support of this woman who has gone out of her way to make sure that she is heard and make sure that her story has been put out there and that people are supporting her. Like, this is. I mean, people are outraged, and I think that should show a little bit of hope. I mean, there are. There are people who are posting on TikTok, on Instagram who are just like, I'm disgusted. There are people who even attend Cornell University or people who got into Cornell for, you know, college, and they're just ashamed of it on almost. They're embarrassed. There are people who have literally said online that they are embarrassed to go to Cornell now because people are. You know, I think there's something in people's minds where it's kind of clicked for them that this is like, this is the reality that we're facing, and it's. It's so wrong. But that does. That does show a little bit of light in the situation. Obviously, it's tragic that she even had to go through that in the first place for people to start, you know, thinking a little bit more logically about this. But it's still, like, you know, a positive aspect of the situation.
• 10:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, I get it.
• 10:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:13
  Speaker B: It's hard to twist it into something that can be. But the. But you've got to try to take. You got to try to take the lessons that you can from.
• 10:21
  Speaker A: Absolutely. Which is what we should be doing as a society in general.
• 10:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 10:25
  Speaker A: And I think. I think that can kind of bring us to, like, a closing point almost. I think society overall just needs to take this situation and really grasp it, because, I mean, there have been plenty of rape, criminal offenses.
• 10:43
  Speaker B: That's another thing, you know, important, though, so. And you mentioned that she. And I mean, she's not coming out and stating her name, but she has filed a civil lawsuit. And so because of that civil lawsuit, she is being heard. That's probably. That's kind of what I do. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself, because when you stand up for yourself, then that gives other people courage to do themselves as well.
• 11:09
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 11:10
  Speaker B: Another one of the takeaways that I think are. Is important because you got to use your voice when some use. Use your voice. And in this situation, there was. She did use her voice.
• 11:22
  Speaker A: She did.
• 11:23
  Speaker B: She did use her voice.
• 11:24
  Speaker A: She did go to the police, and that's really admirable.
• 11:26
  Speaker B: Police didn't actually. The police didn't actually look close enough into it until the civil lawsuit came out. But now they're reopening the investigation. And so because she decided to pursue the civil lawsuit, she wasn't. She wasn't just going to let it lay down.
• 11:42
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 11:42
  Speaker B: And. And. And so because of that, she's making. She's. She's opening people's eyes.
• 11:49
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's a beautiful thing that's happening. So I think the major takeaways, I want to list them off.
• 11:56
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 11:57
  Speaker A: First of all, men need to start respecting women and become more educated on certain aspects.
• 12:04
  Speaker B: What it means. I think it's important for them to know what it means to be a man. Being a man is loving your family, loving your community, respecting the people in your community. What you have to do to make the world a better place, that's what makes a man. And then not having sex with a thousand women, that. That has nothing to do with it.
• 12:25
  Speaker A: It doesn't. And then being your own advocate, standing up for yourself, speaking up for yourself, that's really important, because who else is gonna do it? You're your own, like, hero. You have to be in this world. It's just you, yourself and you. Yeah, I was gonna say me, myself, and I. But then, like, that didn't work. But, yeah, I think those are the biggest things. And I think on that note, we should close off. So thank you guys so much for listening. I mean, this is such a sensitive topic, and it's. You know, it's scary standing up and speaking up for yourself. But we're really proud of whoever this anonymous girl is. Jane Doe, I mean, that's. It's really admirable that she was able to do that, and the community that she has built and the people who are supporting her online and, you know, in person and protesting like, this is. This is. You know, it's leading the right way. You know, it's opening people's eyes.
• 13:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's definitely opening up conversations, and that's. That's what it's all about.
• 13:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So thank you guys so much for listening. Make sure to tune in to future episodes. We're on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all your other podcast streaming platforms, YouTube as well. Make sure to, like, comment, subscribe, and. Yeah, see y' all later.
• 13:40
  Speaker B: See you next time.
• 13:41
  Speaker A: Bye.