Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / BONUS: Gill Connections LIVE at USTFCCCA 2024 Convention (Orlando)

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BONUS: Gill Connections LIVE at USTFCCCA 2024 Convention (Orlando) · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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Bonus time every year at the USTFCCCA convention down in
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December, we do a live podcast event where we sit down with
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coaches from around the country for 5:00-ish minutes and talk
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about a certain topic. This year, December of 2024, we
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sat down with coaches to talk about the NCAA, what's going on
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with the NIL, transfer portal, roster caps, all those kind of
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good things. And there's some interesting
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feedback and tidbits from everyone who chose to sat down
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with us. So here we are the audio version
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of that. You can catch the video version
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over on YouTube. Just search up the Gil Athletics
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podcast and look for our live events content and you'll find
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the three that we've done 2020 four 20/23/2022 and we'll do it
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again in 2025. All right here we go.
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We are live on Twitter and YouTube for the Gil Connections
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Podcast bringing you every year. We just try to do something just
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a little bit fun, a little bit more fun, just a little bit more
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adventurous. And this year, so we're gonna do
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the same air quotes there, right?
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We're gonna do a live podcast here for the next hour or so.
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We're gonna be on Twitter and on YouTube.
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And you might actually be listening to this in the future,
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listening to it on the podcast. That's how Podcast World works.
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And but this year we're going to have a theme.
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So each one of our guests that we have, we are going to ask
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them their opinions, their thoughts on all the changes that
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are going on in the NCAA. So we'll see.
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Everybody has the right to answer it on their own.
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They can say no comment, that's completely fine.
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And we'll veer off to somewhere else and and then some will have
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very in depth. And so we're going to start with
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one of my good friends here. I know I already reduced them,
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but I can introduce himself. Introduce yourself my friend.
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Yeah, I'm Blake Bolden, Franklin P Johnson, Director of the Drake
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Relays. Thrilled to be here with you,
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Mike, and thrilled to be here at the Coaches Convention, STFCCCA.
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As everyone can hear, the energy in the background is palpable.
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There's a slight roar pretty much from the lobby, the JW all
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the way over to the Ritz Carlton, and a lot of fun this
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week. Yeah, I love it.
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I wish sometimes we could change the camera around and show all
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the people that are here. Man, it is a lot of fun.
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And honestly, you know, you've heard me say this before.
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I consider this week my Super Bowl.
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I'll be like, I just love this entire week of hair down.
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No athletes that have to worry about.
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Actually, they're all worried about their athletes, but
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there's nothing going on on the track that they're concerned
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well. And nobody gets on a plane to
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come here without first ensuring their athletes are home for the
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fall. They're so they can entrust that
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they're that the athletes are with their parents or families
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or even still on campus, but in good hands and just an exhale
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after a fall some. You know, for distance coaches.
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With cross country and then Boston and now yeah, the, the,
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the event areas other than distance have maybe done a
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little bit of a test at the end of the season, but now it's just
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exhale till probably January 2nd or 3rd.
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Speaking of a test, you know, as a background in distance
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yourself, pretty good Miler, if I remember correctly.
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Yeah, thank you. It's really interesting and it's
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been going on for a while, but just seems to have more hype
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here lately. The the Boston meet after cross
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country man, holy cow. Well, and.
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Every year the distance runners head there and they set some
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incredible performance, new collegiate record, something
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that you just can't believe. And then the following and
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everyone says, wow, is it ever going to be faster?
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And then, of course, the following year.
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Yeah, next year. Right.
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Exactly. Exactly.
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Well, I love what they're doing up there.
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All right, Blake, So, you know, you're in the hot seat.
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We're talking about the incidentally changes.
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There's a lot of things, a lot of ways that question can go in
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IL roster caps, the demise of the PAC 12.
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There's a lot of avenues I'm gonna let you pick.
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What do you think about all these changes going on with
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NCAA? Conference realignment, major
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issue, How athletes can monetize their name, image, likeness,
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huge issue. But really with all of these
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changes, I think the biggest thing in the sport of track and
3:44
field, it is a time for unification.
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It's time for coaches to start to unify.
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It's time for the coaches association to lead a
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conversation, not just at the conference level across and then
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on campus with administration, but even in Capitol Hill with
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the Senate and, and Congress to really ensure there is
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legislation beyond the NCAA that starts to protect the Olympic
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movement, Right. And, and I know Sam was there at
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the end of the summer, August and September.
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And, and really I would encourage any coach or others
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that are listening to this to identify somebody that is
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listening to this right now knows someone that controls a
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congressman's calendar. And that person needs to reach
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out to Sam Track coaches, you know, get get my call away in
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front of these people. Get.
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Some people. In Congress and in in the closed
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doors with senators and congressmen to start talking
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about how we can protect the Olympic movement with an
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emphasis on the oldest Olympic sport, track and field, and what
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is the best sport in the world. How agreed?
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How, how would this, how would you answer this question?
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How does this affect because we, we talk a lot about the
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athletes, we talk about a lot about coaching, we talk a lot
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about the conferences. What about, you know, again,
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still my favorite meet in the whole world, Drake Relays.
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How does this affect positively or negatively the Drake Relays?
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Yeah. And, and, and a lot of that
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remains to be seen. I mean some of it depends on
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investment, not just in scholarships and roster size,
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but how will travel be impacted for these traditional power for
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what will happen to the small colleges.
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I actually think it just me. From where I sit, NAI D2D3 track
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and field might actually increase in significance on
5:17
their campus. I think so.
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That, that's my inclination. Now it's a matter of how can we
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balance that with the power for schools really investing in
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Olympic development. In a way that.
5:28
We never have Wow with the with the a central emphasis on
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American Olympic. Development.
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Yeah, I love it. So there's a, there's a lot of
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balance to that and I, I don't know what all the opportunities
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are for our event, but I'm increasingly aware of the
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challenges. And I think every.
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One of us here faces challenges, but it is a time for
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unification. And I mean that across
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collegiate track and field, the NTA Coach Association, but also
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those other five CS. So we're talking about USA
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tracking or USA tracking field. Right we're.
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Talking about running USA, we're talking about RCA, where
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everyone has to identify the significant role that the
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collegiate system plays in not just American track and field.
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Development no doubt, no doubt, no doubt love it so remains to
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be seen and but you can you stand here today and guarantee
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we're having a Drake Relays this year in 2025 we're going.
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To have a Drake Relays in 25 and 20. 6 I mean.
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So in 2025, we're celebrating our 115th.
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Yeah, Congrats man. I love that we're.
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A unique property in that we celebrate Iowa high school track
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and field, we celebrate collegiate track and field at
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every level. We also celebrate Olympians in a
6:36
very real and authentic way, but also masters athletes, special
6:41
Olympians, the whole gamut mat. You know, it really is an
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opportunity for 10,000 fans to celebrate every athlete and what
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we need to do as a sport is recognize those assets, pen
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relays, Drake relays and others that attract fans.
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And instead of putting our best athletes in in some high
7:02
performance meet where no one will see it either on television
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or in the stands, to identify those and work together to make
7:08
sure they survive and thrive in the next.
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Generation love it all right, so right now someone is actually
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listening to this December of 2025 because we you utilize this
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content right. So I'm going to ask everybody
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who sits down with us give us a prediction for this upcoming
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year. It could be Drake related, it
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could be world record related, it could be NCAA.
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You, you just make a prediction and we're going to find out how
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close you were in December of 2025.
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Well, for one, Team USA will just gotten back from Japan with
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another incredible performance. There's no doubt about that #2
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NCA will only be faster than it. Was true.
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And as we sit today, and then I think there will be some shifts.
7:47
I, I don't know what will continue to happen at the NCAA
7:50
Division One level in terms of sports sponsorship, in terms of
7:53
roster limits. Those are all unknowns in this
7:55
moment. But I do believe that as we all
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continue to collaborate with leaders like you contributing in
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a central, central way that we're going to be stronger.
8:05
Yeah, we might be streamlined at some levels and there may be
8:09
some reformation of the, the, the the way schools.
8:14
Invest. Yeah.
8:15
But I don't think that there's any risk to our.
8:19
Future yeah, I I agree with that.
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I'm not a Chicken Little Sky is falling.
8:23
There's going to be changes, but we're strong and we're going to
8:26
continue to move forward, I think.
8:27
Well, there's no doubt about it. And women's track and field, I
8:29
think is going to continue to prove that it is an incredible
8:32
value, valuable. Asset.
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To every athletic department in America.
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All right, Well, that was a pretty benign prediction, but.
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But we'll take it. We'll take it.
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Not more, but I. Know you've got about 40.
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People. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I'm so grateful for everybody here and we're going to try to
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get every last one of the guys and gals that are here waiting
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and we're going to say thank you Blake, man, thank you so much.
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Again, it's a three-year tradition of you leading us off
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here live on the Gil Connections podcast and it means a lot to
8:58
us. Thank you so much.
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Thanks, Mike. Yes, Sir.
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It's no souvenirs. You can't take that with you.
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All right, who we have next coming up.
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Come on in my my bouncers need to bounce, not bounce actually,
9:11
but just getting people in order here.
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All right, I love it. This is 2 Gill connections
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podcast alums in a row coming up here.
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Go ahead and introduce yourself. I am.
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Charles Ryan, director of track and field at the.
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San Jose State, what a storied program.
9:27
I mean, do you, I know you do because I know you, you realize
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the kind of gravitas you have of leading such a historic program?
9:34
Absolutely. It was part of the, you know,
9:36
part of the taking the job in the first place.
9:40
I'm a Bay Area kid. Yeah.
9:40
Oh, that's right. Yeah, a chance to.
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You know, chart a new path of such historical program and try
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to make the alums proud of what we're trying to produce.
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Today, yeah, it goes. A long way and I'm having a lot
9:54
of. Fun I love it.
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You're doing a great job. Really, really proud of you.
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Really proud of you. All right so tonight we're
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you're talking about the NCAA. What's your opinion on, and you
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get to take this any direction you want NIL, roster, Caps,
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recruiting, etcetera, etcetera. What's your thoughts on all the
10:09
things going on with the NCAA My.
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Initial thoughts are there's a lot of thoughts, feelings and
10:16
opinions folding around and the fact of the matter is at this
10:18
moment you don't know enough. About, yeah.
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I'm not a person that is naturally resistant to change.
10:27
I try to embrace it. I try to find, you know,
10:29
opportunities to, to do what we do at a higher level, no matter
10:33
what the circumstances. Right.
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Right now I'm very much in a holding pattern.
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I want to see, you know, what comes out of the house situation
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I want. To see right directly.
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Effects not only the sport but obviously my individual.
10:47
Space, right, Right. I'm a major division.
10:50
One approach I have been major problems.
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And so the. Fact of the matter is that I
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have no problem with. The roster, yeah.
11:03
The opportunity for 45 scholarships, 35 scholarships
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that some programs are already in embracing and already reaping
11:14
the benefits. Of the.
11:15
Fact of the matter is that reality has, will cause and is
11:19
causing a Grand Canyon size gap within division.
11:24
OK. And.
11:25
There's no way that. You can Hasn't there already
11:27
been Not like this, OK, more not like this.
11:30
OK, I'll. Give you an example.
11:33
A year ago in our previous season, San Jose State produced
11:36
7 male All. Americans right in various
11:38
events, right? That was with the idea that my
11:43
scholarship budget was 12 point. 6 right?
11:46
There's no universe that exists now moving forward where I will
11:49
have even the 12.6 but everyone at that meet.
11:53
In theory, if you were fully funded, was it minimum operating
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off of the 12 point? Six right now.
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You're telling me that my reality means I get less and
12:03
people in in the big conferences are going to be at 45?
12:08
Yeah, it's already hard enough to.
12:09
I see. Yeah, the gap is going.
12:10
To. Be Yeah.
12:11
If that was some kind of geography nerd, I'd be able to
12:13
like, whatever is a little smaller than the Grand Canyon
12:15
and now the Grand Canyon, but a little hole now, a big hole.
12:18
Big change. Yeah.
12:18
And so like I said, for programs like myself.
12:21
You know, balance is probably going to be out the door.
12:24
We're going to have to be. Special at what?
12:27
Yeah, I wondered about that. And offer.
12:28
Those opportunities to young people and.
12:30
Hopefully they see some. Value.
12:33
Yeah, You know, I appreciate someone who says that they're
12:37
someone who's not resistant to change, because that's my style
12:39
as well. It'll be interesting because
12:42
there's other people like, like us here amongst our coaching
12:44
brethren that'll be like this. It'll be interesting to see.
12:47
I think we'll be strong, but I think we'll be changed.
12:50
Oh, change. No.
12:51
Doubt. Yeah, I mean.
12:53
Cataclysmic change like it's, it's not going to look like
12:56
anything. It's.
12:57
Ever looked like? Right, once all this dust has
12:59
such. All right, so we're asking
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everybody, because this will be replayed in a year from now as
13:03
we're leading into the 2025 convention, give us your
13:06
prediction. Doesn't have to be NCAA house
13:09
versus NCAA. It could be we're going to break
13:11
our 200 meter school record. It could be we'll have nobody on
13:16
the Olympic team. I don't know.
13:17
Well, there's no Olympics, but we will have nobody on the
13:19
Olympic team next year. I'll just take that prediction
13:21
off to play, but we're going to see if you're right next
13:23
December I I think. Other than just the NCAA shift,
13:29
I think the new world athletic. Schedule is going to make it.
13:32
A lot more difficult for NCAA athletes to make those teams in.
13:37
General right be it. Foreign teams or Americans?
13:40
Yeah, so. I think something that you could
13:43
point to in 20, 25 I think. They're going to see a lot less.
13:48
Collegiate making the American team.
13:50
Wow, how? Late USA is yeah versus.
13:51
How close it's been to. The end, it's usually just it's
13:54
the next week, you know? Yeah, it's 2.
13:56
Months apart now and just just the mechanism of keeping kids
14:01
on. Campus and allowing, yeah.
14:02
Do do programs want to invest that kind of time and energy
14:05
right, making those? Teams where you got to keep
14:08
kids. Yeah, that's a good prediction.
14:10
I like that. Yeah, I like that.
14:11
That's that's because that'll be one we'll be able to actually
14:14
tell like, oh, how many made it in last year?
14:16
How many made it this year? That's a good prediction.
14:17
I love that. Chuck, thank you so much, man.
14:19
You have been a big supporter of the podcast from day one.
14:22
And so I'm just I'm just always grateful for you.
14:24
I appreciate. That you're doing a great job.
14:28
Thank you, brother. Appreciate it very much.
14:29
Thank you. All right, that's a good
14:31
prediction, right? I mean, we'll know how many
14:33
people made it this upcoming year versus last year.
14:37
So I like that prediction. You don't have bouncers out here
14:46
that take care of this crowd. It's I also have to have these
14:49
same bouncers for when it's autographed for quest time.
14:52
It's a it's a little embarrassing, a little
14:53
embarrassing, but not embarrassing is I love our relay
14:57
meets and I do say, and I'll say it in front of other people.
14:59
Drake Relays has always been number one in my heart.
15:02
But I tell you what, KU relays has made a move.
15:06
They have made a statement and I'm glad to have this guy
15:09
leading the way. Why don't you introduce
15:10
yourself, please, Tim Byers. Kansas relays director.
15:13
Going in my third year of being a director there after 28 years
15:17
of coaching. But I like what?
15:19
I'm doing third year is the director.
15:20
But you've been involved in the KU relays.
15:22
Yeah, I'm a I'm. A born and raised.
15:25
Yeah probably 40 plus relays. I think I've been to.
15:29
Is that right? Yeah Holy wait, wait so like
15:31
since the day you were born then?
15:32
Cuz I'm all. Over that.
15:37
But I appreciate that, you know, back in the days we weren't.
15:41
Used to let the schools out. We could go to the relays on.
15:44
Fridays. Oh cool.
15:45
Grade school, junior high and high, yeah, we gotta start that
15:47
back up. I like that tradition.
15:48
I like that tradition. All right, Tim, this year we've
15:51
got a theme. So we're asking everybody the
15:53
same questions. And the question is, and you get
15:54
to answer this however you'd like, is what is your opinion on
15:58
all of the changes going on with NCAA, obviously specifically for
16:02
track and field, how that might affect KU relays?
16:05
What's your thoughts on just everything you get to take it,
16:07
what direction you want to go in, you know?
16:09
And it is, it's going to affect everyone from top to bottom.
16:12
But I think where it's going to affect us at the relays most is
16:16
that we will have people traveling.
16:19
Budgets are not going to be quite what they used to be and
16:22
stuff. So you've got a team that's say
16:24
coming from two or three states away, instead of bringing 30
16:27
kids are going to be 10 or 15, you know, that sort of thing.
16:30
And so I think that's where the biggest effect is going to have
16:33
on us. And I know a lot of schools they
16:36
want help getting their. Kids home too.
16:39
Well, third, budget shrinking, I think other budgets shrink also.
16:42
So I think it's going. To kind of yeah all.
16:44
Around tightening effect, that's going to be going.
16:46
On what what do you do in this scenario?
16:48
We don't know this scenario necessarily is true right now,
16:50
but if possible, and I could see that, what do you do as the KG
16:53
really? Do you invite more teams?
16:54
Do you beefing up your, you know, historically amazing high
16:58
school program? What maybe do you combat that
17:00
with high school? 'S not not an issue.
17:02
I mean, we'll bring in over 3000 athletes for those two days of
17:07
the meet and stuff. So the collegiate, I think we're
17:11
going to have to concentrate on the Nebraska, the Arkansas, the
17:15
Iowa, Missouri, the people that don't.
17:17
Have to travel right right you. Know I got my good friend Stevie
17:22
Keller in North. Dakota State, that's a long
17:24
trip. Yeah, right.
17:27
Right. You.
17:28
Know, maybe we start to, you know, concentrate a little bit
17:31
kind of what the relay started as 1923, you know, like a lot.
17:37
Of the schools which at all right and.
17:41
And concentrate on. Both.
17:42
Yep. And it's still a great meet.
17:44
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We'll.
17:46
Still get the best of division two, Division Three in the.
17:49
IA yeah, you. Know.
17:52
She goes to Allstate. Good, good.
17:53
So this will be republished next year as we're leading into the
17:56
2025 convention. So we're going to be able to
17:59
check your answer on this next question.
18:01
You get to make a prediction on what's going to happen in track
18:04
and field in the next year. You again, any direction you
18:07
want. It could be KU related, it could
18:08
be Olympics high school, it could be you, who knows.
18:13
What's your best prediction on something that's going to happen
18:15
this upcoming year? Well, I think.
18:18
We're going to see a world record.
18:22
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Real brave of you there.
18:26
Yeah. What next you're going to tell
18:28
me there's going to be one of the women's foreigner hurdle,
18:30
which actually might not. Who know?
18:31
We don't know what event she's going to run, but yeah,
18:44
right. Yeah, right.
18:52
Yeah. And what a great guy and a great
18:54
I I know some of the family, amazing family.
18:57
And really, you talk about a track tradition if you don't
19:00
know the Krauser. So, you know, maybe Ryan Krauser
19:03
go look at his era, so his brother and cousins, but then go
19:08
look at their dads and uncles. It's amazing Thanksgiving with
19:13
those guys. Yeah.
19:14
You know, most people. Yeah.
19:15
Most people play a football game.
19:17
They go out and throw the shot and the jab and the hammer.
19:19
Exactly. All right, Tim, thank you so
19:21
much, man. I'm really grateful for you and
19:23
your team and what you do in leadership in our great sport
19:26
with the KU Relays. It's a very important track meet
19:29
that we have, and I'm glad it's back and I'm glad it's going
19:31
back into healthy territory because that what is it.
19:34
The a rising tide lifts all ships.
19:36
This is part of the tide that lifts us all up.
19:38
So what? You do for track and field.
19:40
This podcast is excellent. Thank you and we're fortunate to
19:43
have you. Do this.
19:43
Thank you, brother. I appreciate that.
19:45
Thank you so much. Thank you.
19:54
All right, we, you know, we're basically just have the same
19:57
people over and over again. He was going to talk without a
20:02
microphone. I know how how he operates.
20:04
You got to get a little bit closer here.
20:06
Yeah. I love it.
20:07
I love it. Start out by introducing
20:09
yourself, please. I'm the director.
20:10
Of tracking cross country at the.
20:13
University and I had the same issue last year speak up just a
20:16
little bit for me. I use your like command coach
20:19
voice here for me. All right, let's redo that my
20:21
name. Is Director I'm the director of
20:24
tractor Deal cross country at the University of.
20:26
Washington, I love it. My favorite thing when I came to
20:28
visit you, it seems like many, many years ago because it was
20:31
before COVID the the the Virginia's for lovers sign that
20:35
you guys had on middle of campus.
20:36
And then I'll never get over the way your track is set up to
20:40
where you have like, I think it's the sophomore dorms or
20:41
whatever that just like literally overlook like lane 8.
20:44
Still one of the coolest, most unique things I've ever seen.
20:46
I love that. Oh yeah.
20:47
We're Alaska, our track. Is the center piece of campus.
20:56
That's so cool. I love that All right so this
20:59
year we've got a theme of what we're asking each guest that
21:02
sits down with us and thank you so much for being here.
21:04
You get to take this any direction you want because
21:06
there's a lot of directions to take here.
21:08
What's your thoughts, opinions on all this stuff that's going
21:11
on with the NCAA as it specifically as it relates to
21:13
track and field? What's what's think, what's
21:15
going on there? Well, as in division. 3
21:18
institutions. We're kind of waiting to see
21:20
what shakes out in Division One, how it filters down.
21:26
Being kind of an old school coach kind of breaks my heart
21:30
that we're getting away from the larger teams.
21:33
Participation. Part of it the fact that
21:37
conferences used to be as few as six teams and yeah, 6 lane
21:41
tracks and scored six places. It's hard to even imagine that
21:47
right now. Right, right, right.
21:48
You could also say we used to be 10 and 12, and that has gone by
21:51
the wayside. Yeah, exactly.
21:53
And so in some ways, I would hope that to, you know, reflect
21:57
the number of these precisely conferences that we would go
22:01
with better, more scoring kind. Of similar, yeah.
22:05
And. That way, you know, there was
22:07
more opportunities for kids to participate, more opportunities
22:10
for kids to scoring conference championships, and then the
22:16
opportunity to have larger, more well-rounded teams.
22:18
So even at the Division Three level, you're not head in the
22:21
sand saying, oh, this is this is Division One thing.
22:23
It's not going to affect us in any form or fashion.
22:25
You kind of know something, you don't know maybe what, but
22:28
something's going to affect Division Three.
22:31
Yeah. Do you foresee?
22:33
I I believe This is why I'm kind of asking this question with the
22:36
roster caps that are coming on the Division One side, there's
22:39
still, you know, the track and field on the high school when
22:41
you add boys and girls together is easily the biggest
22:44
participation sport over basketball, football, etcetera.
22:47
So there's still a lot of need for college facilities.
22:51
Do you foresee whether it's larger rosters or even this may
22:56
seem like a bad, but I don't mean this in a bad way.
22:59
Higher quality coming right out of high school to you.
23:01
We think that's. Going to be the case.
23:03
I'm talking to my counterparts in Division Three, even talking
23:07
to other coaches in other sports.
23:08
It's kind of the. Consensus that those kids want
23:12
to be a college athlete. Somewhere right and.
23:15
Where's that opportunity going to?
23:16
Be Yeah, so it. May be a few years.
23:20
Right, see all this? Yeah, but.
23:23
You know, Division Three could really.
23:27
Change the landscape bro. You have heard me say this a lot
23:29
of times. Maybe Division 3 has the best
23:32
coaches around because I know what these kids are at a high
23:35
school. That's not not derogatory.
23:37
It's just where we are with our levels.
23:38
But go look at D3 nationals. Holy cow, you guys are coaching
23:43
your butts off. I, I, I couldn't coach in that
23:46
level and I coached in the SEC back in the day.
23:48
It's unbelievable. What Division Three and all NAIA
23:51
JUCO. It's really quite amazing what
23:53
you guys are getting it done on the track and in the field, man.
23:55
And it's thanks. To guys like you because the
24:01
opportunities to put this. Great score, you know, out on
24:06
the platform. Thank you.
24:07
Yeah, I appreciate that. That means a lot.
24:09
All right, so we rerun this podcast as we go into next
24:12
year's convention. So this will someone who's going
24:14
to be listening right now in December of 2025.
24:17
So we're going to put you on the spot.
24:18
What's your prediction for something that's going to happen
24:21
over this track season? You could be it could be
24:23
Lynchburg specific. It could be world champs.
24:26
It doesn't have to be. It could be world record.
24:28
It could be you're going to set your 200 meter, maybe you are
24:31
going to set your 200 meter score record 1 prediction that
24:34
we get to check next December to see how how good you were or
24:37
not. Well, I would.
24:38
Say after last year's Olympics, that's going.
24:41
To be a hard yeah, these athletes.
24:46
Always come. To to play crazy and so.
24:48
My biggest prediction is that the disappointment that Noah
24:51
Miles. Had.
24:53
Yeah, that's going to just make him even more determined.
24:59
So a bounce back from Noah. Yeah, OK.
25:01
And I still think it may be a far.
25:04
Stretch for some world record. Maybe 100, but maybe in the 200.
25:10
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:11
The right race right off. Yeah.
25:12
And what's interesting, and I love it, I think it's good for
25:14
our sport is as great as Noah is, and that's awesome.
25:17
He's got some competition. It's not just Noah.
25:19
There's other people that are running out of their minds, and
25:21
I think that makes Noah better and others better as well.
25:24
That's a good prediction. We can check to see how well
25:26
that one is. If he doesn't win both 100 and
25:28
200 and a world record. What is it, 19?
25:34
No, no, 1914 or 19? That's so stupid.
25:38
I mean, that's just crazy. We remember 1932.
25:41
Like, like, like we can like, know where we were, you know,
25:43
when we saw. Yeah, that's our 911.
25:46
Like, where were you, 19320? I know exactly where I was.
25:48
I love it. Specker.
25:49
Thank you so much, man. You know, I've had the great
25:52
privilege to be able to coach with you in the same athletic
25:55
department and seeing you go through different schools and
25:59
you know, your time at Lynchburg, this, this is a
26:03
compliment. You were made to be a Division
26:05
Three coach and, and some people would take that as a, as a slam.
26:08
And you know me well enough that I it's not a slam for me.
26:11
Your love for athletes, it don't matter if they're running 20
26:16
minutes for two miles, 10 minutes, 5 minutes.
26:19
You just love improving young people and and competing.
26:23
Win or lose, you just love to compete.
26:25
And I love to see that in you. And I love to see that in your
26:27
athletes and your coaching staff.
26:29
Yeah, you deserve it, brother. Thank you so much.
26:31
Thanks for being on the show, man.
26:32
Thank you, brother. Appreciate you.
26:33
Love you. It's a hard one to follow.
26:41
Are you sure? I love it.
26:44
I love it. All right, Why don't you start
26:45
by introducing yourself, please? Yeah, I'm.
26:47
Mark Shirley, I coach at Liberty University as an assistant coach
26:51
and I'm also the facilities and track meet director there.
26:54
Yeah, out Lynchburg. Following Coach Brecker, he's
26:58
he's the man. Yeah, yeah, I'm so dumb and
27:02
scoop for scoop towards me just a little bit, just when we get
27:04
there on the Twitter. So I went to through Lynchburg
27:09
because it was at Charlottesville and Blacksburg
27:13
book ends, right? So I was kind of doing a tour,
27:14
right? And so I was going to go stay
27:16
the night in Lynchburg and visit my buddy Sprecher and all that
27:18
kind of stuff. And as I'm driving in, I see
27:20
this sign, you know, home of Liberty.
27:22
And I was like, is Liberty in Lynchburg?
27:25
I knew it was in Virginia, but I had no clue.
27:28
And so I called my friend, our fellow friend Sean Van Novel.
27:31
And I was like, Sean, I was like, are you are you in
27:34
Lynchburg? And he's like, yeah, it's spring
27:35
break, but yeah, I'm here. I was like, bro, I am here.
27:37
And I had no clue. And he gave me a tour this back
27:40
when the indoor facility was still being built.
27:42
But give me a tour. And that's a campus, bro.
27:45
Holy yeah. What a, you know, I've known him
27:50
for a long time and really love him.
27:52
And really the thing that just I, I, I get the most is pride
27:56
and grateful for him is his work with coaches education.
27:58
I'm a huge coaches education guy.
28:00
And I'm not sure besides him maybe and Larry Judge, who
28:03
teaches the most level ones and stuff.
28:05
So I love his servant leadership with that.
28:07
But we're here to talk about you So and you have a unique
28:10
perspective. That's why I really wanted you
28:11
on the show. And so super glad that you you
28:13
joined us here. So our topic this year is all
28:17
the changes that are going on with NCAA.
28:19
You get to take that any Ave. you want.
28:21
What, what's your opinion? What's What do you think's going
28:23
on and how do you see things playing out?
28:25
Yeah. So I, I coach our bottom half of
28:29
our women's team, we have 32 women on our distance roster.
28:33
And we kind of heard rumors of the the numbers coming out.
28:37
And yeah, that's, that's not actually going to happen.
28:39
And then our athletic directors met with us and kind of said,
28:43
hey, it's, it's most likely going to happen.
28:45
We're moving forward. If it's going to happen, your
28:47
numbers are 17 and 45. Wow, wow, those 17.
28:51
Automatically have to count toward the 45 the track.
28:54
So you can't have 17 and maybe 10 of them are because you know
28:58
there's a difference between track and cross country 10 of
29:00
them from the cross team move on to track and then the other 35,
29:04
those 17 take 45 -, 17 if you're going to carry 17 on the cross
29:08
so the. Odds are, we're not going to be.
29:12
Able to carry 17 distance from right and so.
29:14
Right. That number one, it's me out of
29:17
a coaching gig. Number two, I recruited, we
29:21
were, we were told to be for, for number wise for Title 9 to
29:25
be at over 30 women. Yeah.
29:26
How does this affect Title Nine? Yeah, it's going to.
29:28
Completely change. It right?
29:30
I honestly think it's it's going to ruin be a train ride for
29:34
women's sports in general. How so?
29:38
There's going to be a lot of missed opportunities even with
29:40
within our program. We have yes, 17 girls in my
29:45
group. Are definitely.
29:46
Not going to be a part of the team, right we've had.
29:49
But, but don't they, I, I could play a little bit devil's
29:51
advocate and, and I do actually believe in this next question
29:54
personally. And it's also easy for me to
29:56
believe in these things because I'm not in your, your seat
29:58
either. Right.
29:59
But don't those 17 young ladies have an opportunity to go to
30:02
division two schools and Division Three and junior
30:06
college, depending on what year they are?
30:07
NEI, there are other opportunities without and, and
30:09
by the way, you as well get an opportunity to coach at other
30:13
institutions. Or, or is it, or do you think
30:15
there's more of an immediacy to the negativity that that's
30:18
because there is going to be some negativity.
30:19
I'm not not Pollyannish here. Yeah, no.
30:21
And. I do think there are going to be
30:24
potentially more influx in division two programs, Division
30:28
Three programs. I ran it at Vision 3 institution
30:31
and so like I love that what D3 stands.
30:35
For right opportunities. Right.
30:37
I think what we're kind of looking at is running club
30:39
options on campus. Because.
30:41
Liberty's a unique school and people want to be there.
30:44
Because there is that. I agree with that So.
30:47
Even in my group of 17, the couple are on the transfer
30:50
portal. But I'd say the.
30:51
Majority are planning on staying at liberty.
30:54
You know, don't. Have the opportunity to run on a
30:55
on a division. I didn't think about it this
30:58
way, but I know there is a I'll call it healthy because there's
31:01
a, a national club, college, club championship across.
31:04
And yeah, I wonder if, if that organization grows, if you will.
31:10
Absolutely, yeah. I I.
31:11
Was actually able to start a running club on campus three
31:14
years ago on Liberty. Yeah, the.
31:16
Cool part is like we're we're working with our athletic
31:19
department to see if we can possibly build up the running
31:23
club even. More, yeah.
31:25
And that's that's a question too, like is there ability for
31:29
coaches or maybe me who like won't actually be a coach
31:32
anymore to be involved in? That right, right, right.
31:35
And that's a pure, you know, a lot of times on the Division
31:38
Three side and maybe it's unfair to say Division Three, but in
31:40
some schools it's a it's a tuition driver, you know, have
31:45
more kids on your team, they pay more tuition.
31:47
The the club is 100% well beyond academic scholarships and such
31:50
like that in grants, but it's a a real money drive, you know,
31:54
potentially, yeah, yeah, I would think and the.
31:56
Retention rate is is very similar in club sports.
31:59
Maybe better I. Don't know about better but.
32:03
I mean, intercollegiate athletics have a higher GPA than
32:07
non and higher graduation rate. So when I say better, I didn't
32:12
mean there's like a slam, like, oh, athletes are dumb.
32:14
They don't graduate. They actually graduate higher
32:15
than the normal student does. So yeah, that's interesting.
32:19
OK, so we're asking 'cause this will be also published next year
32:22
as we lead into the 2025 convention.
32:24
So I'll be able to check how good you are at this.
32:27
You get to make one prediction for track and field cross.
32:30
I'll allow you to have cross country in there as well.
32:31
If you'd like something that's gonna happen, It could be
32:34
Lynchburg, I'm sorry, Liberty related.
32:36
It could be pros high school. What's what do you think is one
32:40
thing that might happen in track or cross country in 2025?
32:43
Well, I. I do think I actually I brought
32:45
and I can take this with you. It's I wrote a letter to
32:47
Congress because our. Yeah, the program.
32:49
Said that the biggest change would have to happen at the
32:53
Congress. Level right So.
32:54
I'm trying to get out, get the word out that like we can
32:57
advocate for our sport and advocate and, and this is not
33:01
obviously something to fight for, but if, if we can advocate
33:04
for opportunities for, for our athletes like I.
33:07
Want to do that? But I think as far as your
33:09
prediction question goes, I'll I'll keep it local and I'm gonna
33:13
predict our women's cross country team is going to.
33:16
Make the national champion, yeah.
33:17
Is that right? Yeah, a good group of women.
33:22
Oh. Man, that's cool, because now
33:25
you give me something to root for too.
33:27
Like, all right, I'll watch because, you know, Liberty
33:28
played my alma mater Troy in football and we didn't do so
33:31
well. So I'm not a big Liberty fan in
33:32
that sense, but in cross country I can I can root for that.
33:35
I love that. Hey.
33:36
And by the way, you notice he's not the first person.
33:38
And we're just getting started here that it said talking about
33:41
Congress and making sure we're communicating with them and
33:45
making sure our top people are communicating with them about
33:47
the real richness and opportunities that track and
33:49
field and cross country give young people in this country
33:52
specifically. Yeah.
33:54
I love it. All right, brother, Thank you so
33:55
much. Thank you for visiting us.
33:56
Really a lot of value add there and and go liberty and cross
34:00
country, not football. Thanks, Mark.
34:03
Appreciate you, man. Yeah.
34:05
Yeah. Please.
34:05
Do I want to read that. Absolutely.
34:06
Thank you. Thank you.
34:17
We just keep rolling right along.
34:20
This will be our first, excuse me, our first guest of the night
34:26
that hasn't been a previous guest on the live taping.
34:29
You're, you're a rookie here with this.
34:30
And so move up just a little bit for me.
34:33
Just so you know, Twitter, the tweets, the people there want to
34:36
see you there as well. Please start by introducing
34:39
yourself, Scott. Hall from high.
34:42
Point what? What did we did?
34:43
We first meet at the Olympic Training Center.
34:48
Yeah. Hurdles.
34:51
Yeah, Yeah, that's right. Oh, man.
34:54
Johnny Mac. Man, I love it.
34:55
I love it. And now you're at really
34:58
beautiful. Not that Chula Vista isn't, but
34:59
man, High Point. Gorgeous, gorgeous area,
35:02
gorgeous campus. I love what's going on there.
35:04
Yeah, we're. Doing a lot of good things.
35:11
Esposito, like Esposito, then our director.
35:12
He came there from a high school coach.
35:13
Wow, I. Know we built that thing.
35:15
Wow. How long I was?
35:21
Going to say, how long has it been for you?
35:22
Is it really been almost 10 years?
35:38
Wow. Yeah, Yeah.
35:48
Is he an alum? Did he go to school there?
35:50
I didn't know. I know him as High Point,
35:51
though, the greater Greensboro area.
35:57
OK. Oh, OK.
35:57
All right. I always think I associate him
35:59
with high points. I wasn't sure.
36:00
Yeah. All right, Scott.
36:02
So you've been around to a lot of great institutions all the
36:05
way from Olympic Training Center to other schools, powerful and
36:07
all those kind of things. It's weird.
36:09
We just keep shrinking from Power 5, Power 4.
36:11
I don't know how that's going to end up.
36:14
But today we're talking about the NCAA and all the changes
36:17
that are occurring, NIL roster caps, the whole, and there's
36:21
just so many avenues to take it. What's your thoughts, feelings,
36:24
what's what's going on in your brain with all this stuff?
36:25
The thing? About that, when you mentioned
36:31
what we're going to talk about, and I remember I was just a
36:33
Vision 3 athlete at Upstate St. Lawrence and we had a little 160
36:36
and a 960m track and we would have Syracuse and Colgate, both
36:39
Division One teams come to our place.
36:41
Wow, do a. Score Triangle meet we.
36:42
Would beat them and they would come home and and we did that
36:44
year after year and you never see that type of thing no
36:47
unheard of ever yeah ever take place now and and.
36:50
That maybe speaks to kind of the direction that things have been
36:52
going. Since I was in college 44.
37:01
Years ago, he he. Yeah.
37:03
I coached in Division 2IN in out West Northern Colorado and we
37:08
were, you know, well hosted by New Mexico and the Air Force
37:11
Academy and Idaho State and Colorado State and Cubiston,
37:14
Colorado. And we had athletes that could
37:17
help their athletes and we sport meets and, you know, we, we
37:20
didn't come close to beating them, but we beat them in some
37:23
events. But coaches kind of relish the
37:25
competition. And now it seems like more
37:27
money's gotten into things and there's more pressure on the the
37:33
coaches of the programs that really have great resources and
37:37
funding and recruiting ability and all that thing.
37:40
And so they they want to really I think put an arm link to all
37:45
those programs that could be a possible.
37:47
Threat so so you see, I would say even less, but I mean, I
37:51
don't know the last time I saw a triangular meet even happening,
37:54
but you're saying even less of the McCall meets of the mixed D2
37:57
and I think within they're. Trying to limit the competition,
38:02
you get into me, but maybe you don't get lanes or maybe you
38:05
don't get everybody on the team in there.
38:07
Right. You know, and the idea I think
38:10
is, you know, if I can get a person to my conference, me to
38:15
prepare them, and that's really what I care about.
38:17
Right to be. More selfish and I think, you
38:21
know, coaches in the past that have helped us to the California
38:24
school, Dave Murray to Arizona was great, really gracious right
38:28
back in the day when I would take a team down to Tucson from
38:31
Greeley, Co And I think that that stuff is kind of gone by
38:37
the wayside. Yeah, kind of.
38:38
Looking at what's in for them a little bit.
38:40
More right? Now that the money and football
38:43
and all this thing, it's, it's turned into even more of a
38:47
competitive, maybe homogenized situation where they can we
38:51
control the the good venues and the needs.
38:53
Right, we can. Kind of keep people in that we
38:56
want and people. Out there, yeah, I don't
38:58
necessarily think that the more pressure on the schools that are
39:02
getting more resources a bad thing.
39:04
I think of the old spider man quote of you know, with great
39:06
power comes great responsibility.
39:07
If we're going to spend invest money into you, well, it's
39:09
money. And so we got to get things out.
39:11
But there needs to be AI like that word you used homogeneous
39:14
that that that it can't be that it needs to be more inclusive,
39:17
if you will. That's one of the beauties of
39:19
our sport. That's the most inclusive sport
39:20
there is, right? Me.
39:21
When I was coaching in Division Two, you, you were first or
39:25
second in the national championship at that division or
39:29
champion Division Three and had the standard to go to Division 1
39:32
you could advance on. And that ended I think in 1989
39:36
or 90. And so, you know, frankly.
39:39
So I mean, we had our own championship, but it was always
39:42
really good to see the underdogs get to compete against the big
39:46
schools. But it was really nothing to
39:48
gain for the big schools other than get embarrassed maybe.
39:50
You know. That was maybe a downside, but I
39:53
mean, there's a lot of changes going on.
39:55
I don't know if there's a lot of answers.
39:57
You know the house settlement is supposed to be finalized April
40:02
the 6th. Oh, is that right?
40:04
I think. A lot of teams or conferences
40:06
are going to try to make decisions around March the 1st.
40:12
And in a place like this, we don't have a lot of, you know,
40:14
ticket resources. We have a smaller arena.
40:16
We're not on TV a lot for basketball or basketball game.
40:19
Three extra scholarships to reduce the squads on other
40:25
things would be, you know, maybe a cut of tuition revenue.
40:28
For right, you know, school of. Our size, but we we continue to
40:32
get more and more students every year there just because of the
40:37
popularity of campus. Yeah, right.
40:38
And. So if the athletes get reduced,
40:42
can they make up for that admissions by regular?
40:45
Students, right, which already has a lot of own its own
40:48
pressures as far as college attendance in general because of
40:51
costs. Yeah.
40:53
I mean, you know, when the coaches started there, there
40:55
were 1200 students and now we're up to 6300.
40:59
Students. Wow.
41:00
Yeah, but you know, there's a cost involved.
41:06
I mean, I think the discount rate for our store is pretty low
41:11
compared to some other stores. So it helps keep revenue coming
41:14
in. That's how we yeah, yeah,
41:22
there's all kinds of stuff. The year of the tryout.
41:26
Maybe. Yeah, Yeah, that's a good point.
41:28
Yeah, they may hurt. Walk on statistics, if you will.
41:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And.
41:34
Those kids. Eventually have gotten.
41:36
You know, to earn scholarships. Yeah, I think maybe that's still
41:41
would be the case. It's just you won't have those
41:44
participant walk ONS kids that are like good.
41:46
Kids, right and they've. Learned a lot of yeah yeah yeah.
41:59
Makes sense? Yeah, you would think right.
42:17
There's going to be a. Shifting lane change is the is
42:19
the only constant. We're definitely having change.
42:20
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. That's.
42:22
Right. Yeah, here we are.
42:28
We're still prospering. Yep, Yep, prep school.
42:31
And then they kind of did the whole get back in the thing
42:33
again. Yep, as a result now.
42:39
We have better student athletes, right?
42:46
Yeah, there's a lot of. Things in play and.
42:52
In the recruitment process, I think a lot of high school
42:57
coaches and parents and even the student athletes themselves
43:01
don't know what's going on and they're treating the recruitment
43:04
like everywhere else and we've got to do a lot of education.
43:07
Yeah, for sure. Well, there's a lot of coaches
43:09
that don't know what's going on. So how in the world is a parent
43:11
of a 1718 year old kid supposed to know what's going on?
43:15
I saw something today on Instagram about border of
43:20
recruiting. It's like people on my own team.
43:22
This is your football based thing?
43:24
People on my own. Team Yeah, people in.
43:26
The transfer. Yeah.
43:27
You know, and it went down the thing, right?
43:32
Yeah. Well, we'll all find a way,
43:36
that's for sure, Scott. So next year, we'll be
43:38
publishing this as well. So we're going to be able to
43:40
check this answer here over the next year, 2025.
43:43
What's your best prediction? If something's going on, it
43:45
could be high point related, keep it track related, of
43:47
course. But what's, what's your best
43:49
prediction of something that's going to happen, you know?
43:50
For a majority of the programs are going to opt in and try to
43:55
get that money. We that's going to be
43:56
interesting that it. Was going to be tied to
43:59
participation in the NCAA basketball.
44:01
Champions. That's last I heard, yeah.
44:02
And but right now, the last thing our our compliance
44:06
director from Sanchez said was initially that's not going to be
44:09
the case. OK.
44:11
So you may see a lot of the schools that require on, you
44:14
know, for enrollment driven, you know, to keep their bottom line
44:20
in the. Black.
44:21
Yeah, I. Think you'll see maybe they have
44:23
another year that maybe figure that.
44:25
Out right and. Maybe down the road I think that
44:27
would be the case because as we all know, money.
44:31
Is it does? It does.
44:34
Well, Scott, thank you so much, man.
44:35
I appreciate your experience. You've got a lot of experience
44:38
and you've done it and you've seen a lot of changes that we
44:40
talked about. Freshmen couldn't compete,
44:41
things like that, All of those things, by the way, women
44:44
participate in sports. All of those things were
44:46
supposed to ruin college athletics.
44:47
And yet here we are, stronger than ever.
44:49
So, so we'll see how this impacts it as well.
44:53
Thank you, Scott, appreciate you, man.
44:54
Thank you so much. Who's coming down next?
45:04
Just push your your way past the candy guys.
45:06
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Go ahead and screwed up just a
45:11
little bit for me here. The people on Twitter need to
45:13
see you as well. Exactly, exactly.
45:16
Let's let's start by introducing yourself.
45:18
Yes. I'm Bob here.
45:19
I'm the director of track and Field and cross country at Roger
45:21
University, So. You're you're my first question
45:23
for you is, was it just destiny you were going to coach track
45:25
and field with the last name of hammer?
45:27
I mean, come on, you ain't coaching football and
45:29
tiddlywinks and basketball. You got to do track and field.
45:32
I don't know. I kind of fumble my way into
45:34
track and field. You know, soccer and baseball
45:37
growing up, and somehow it was much better at track.
45:40
And field, Yeah, you know, just kind.
45:41
Of ended up. Here, I love it.
45:43
I love it. Well, talk to us today.
45:45
We're specifically talking about the NCAA and all the changes
45:48
right from NIL to roster caps to how that trickles to D2D3,
45:52
etcetera. What's it look like for track
45:55
meets, etcetera? You get to take it any direction
45:57
you'd like. What's your thoughts on all the
45:59
things that are going on? Yeah, I mean, I.
46:00
Think it poses a lot of challenges for a lot of people.
46:02
I understand. Like how we've gotten here you.
46:06
Know and how else and yeah really important but I mean I
46:08
think. There's some unintended
46:10
consequences at a place like me in a lower level, lower resource
46:13
Division, One institution where we're we're at a we're tuition
46:18
dependent. Right we're.
46:19
You know, we're, you know, we're struggling a little bit
46:21
financially and you know, I have a full roster of 120 kids.
46:25
You know, sometimes we get as high as a. 130 yeah, Wow,
46:28
forward. Here, we're gonna if we do opt
46:31
in, we're going to have to, you know, minimize our Oster by
46:34
right. 30 athletes, yeah. And you?
46:36
Know that costs the university money and being lower resource.
46:40
We're not going to, you know, those extra athletes are
46:43
important in our program. We're developmental.
46:44
Out of those 15 kids on each side, I can find four or five
46:48
that are really going to help us.
46:49
Out right and. Can you know, help contribute to
46:51
a, you know, our hopefully winning a championship or
46:53
competing for championships? So I think there are a lot of
46:56
effects that are that have been unintended consequences that
46:59
people haven't really considered or maybe they considered him
47:03
just discounting that they don't really care too much how it's
47:06
going to affect us. And you know, and I think we're
47:08
our athletic department and athletic director is faced with
47:11
a lot of really challenging decisions.
47:13
Sadly, I think only myself, being the director of track
47:17
field and our basketball coaches are the only people that I think
47:19
really care about it. Which is disappointing, right?
47:22
Right. You know, I think we need to
47:24
have a larger voice and understand.
47:25
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
47:29
Question that you you know, completely fair that you don't
47:31
know the answer to this because you brought this up in our
47:33
previous guests and and I hear you guys loud and clear on our
47:35
guest Mike. So we're just going to keep just
47:37
eat that Mike, as we talking to when you talk about opting in
47:41
and again you you have all right to say I have no clue here Mike.
47:45
So what happens to the Division One schools who don't opt in?
47:49
I assume that means you therefore can't compete at the
47:51
NCAA Division one championship because you have a roster of 100
47:55
versus the 45. So what happens?
47:57
Do we have a one AA? Remember that old terminology
47:59
for football from? My understanding it has zero
48:02
effect on whether we can compete at the NC.
48:05
AA OK, OK. It's just.
48:06
A matter of whether or not we can provide NILNIL opportunities
48:12
for our student. So for us, it's.
48:13
Strictly just basketball decisions for sure.
48:15
Great tradition there, right? Yeah, I mean the victim for.
48:18
Us is, you know, our IDs like, hey, if we don't opt in, we can
48:22
go from being a competitive basketball program to being one
48:24
of the worst in the league, and that's going to drive.
48:26
Decisions. Congrats.
48:27
You made everybody happy. They all say your microphone is
48:29
a lot better. Thank.
48:30
Thank you for that. Yeah.
48:31
Everybody take notes on how you're supposed to handle a
48:33
microphone. Just eat the thing.
48:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't worry about the hygiene
48:37
aspects of this at all. Just close your eyes and keep
48:40
going here. Thanks for the feedback on
48:43
YouTube Live, by the way. Appreciate that.
48:45
OK, Keep going. I interrupted you So.
48:47
So I don't necessarily hear you being a negative Nancy about
48:51
this. I don't hear you being the.
48:52
What would it be positive, Peter?
48:53
I don't know. Yeah.
48:54
Yeah. But more of just like sober
48:56
realism, like, OK, some things are going to change and we're
48:58
going to have to figure that out not only as a track team, but as
49:01
an athletic department and as a school.
49:03
Because you, you did describe something that is happening in a
49:06
lot of schools that there are issues because of the cost of,
49:09
of colleges. And so therefore attendance
49:10
levels at all overall of colleges are down.
49:14
And that's a, that's not a very good financial model for a
49:17
business who's banking on, I need X amount of kids and growth
49:20
every year. Yeah.
49:21
Absolutely. Especially in a place like Ryder
49:24
where if I, if I have a kid on the team and I have to cut him
49:26
for her, there's not an, there's not a student in the population
49:30
that can replace. See, that's where the, the, the,
49:33
you know that that's the difference between US and maybe
49:35
a different, you know, maybe a large state institution where
49:37
they. Can right another?
49:38
Person that could come in. Yeah, take.
49:40
That spot for us, this is real dollars, real money.
49:43
Right you. Know and part of the plan they
49:45
they'll say is that hey, we'll we'll take the roster spots from
49:48
the other sports and we'll increase you know they're not
49:51
they're not at the roster limits, right.
49:52
Now, right they. Can increase the rosters.
49:54
The challenge is they can't provide the same opportunities
49:57
in my opinion that we can provide track to where we can
49:59
give them the opportunity to compete.
50:00
We are really our conference is really generous and cross
50:03
country we can have unlimited. Entry so every.
50:05
Oh wow, yeah. In a championship, we have
50:08
really high event limits in indoor and outdoor tracks, so
50:11
every kid almost gets an opportunity.
50:13
And that's, that's something that every kid can hang on to
50:15
that yeah, as a dream being, as a hook to stay involved to.
50:19
Stay in, right? We can develop them.
50:20
Into stay in school, stay in school, keep earning your degree
50:23
yeah, if you're on the. Soccer team All 11 people get on
50:25
the field. Yeah, yeah, possibility.
50:27
Get on the field so there's there's not as many
50:29
opportunities and those coaches are going to be forced to keep
50:32
athletes happy, keep some harmony on the team.
50:34
And I think that's going to be a greater challenge than people
50:38
making decisions feel like it is.
50:39
Even if you can mandate it all you want, in my opinion it's not
50:42
that easy to keep a lot of people happy in those sports.
50:44
World we have. You know, there's times where we
50:46
have some discourse and we have to handle it, but we can provide
50:49
opportunities. That's a different state for our
50:51
school. I love we talked about, you
50:53
know, 11 people on the field versus our sport.
50:54
That is, to me, the greatest part about our sport is the
50:57
inclusivity. So tall, short, big, small,
51:00
black, white, brown, not only for our athletes, but also for
51:03
our coaches. And that to me, that's what
51:05
makes it special and why we have to fight for it and make it
51:08
survive and thrive in what we're doing.
51:11
No, no, you're good. Yeah.
51:12
I mean I. Was gonna say, I mean, I'm, I'm
51:13
a a little bit, I mean, we understand the reality of what
51:15
we're facing in the future. But you know, I'm sad because as
51:18
a, as a coach also it goes against me.
51:20
I'd like to give athletes. Opportunities to I.
51:22
Think maybe have potential and that's going to change moving
51:25
forward. Here, we're going to have to
51:26
make some. Decisions in our.
51:27
Front Well, Bob, so this will be published again next year as
51:30
we're leading into the 2025 convention.
51:32
So we're going to be able to check the answer to this next
51:33
question. What's your best prediction of
51:36
something that's going to happen in track and field?
51:38
And, you know, I'll, I'll let you go into cross country if
51:41
you'd like. I don't I don't know how I check
51:42
in cross country. I know nothing barely can spell
51:44
the words cross country. It could be very specific to
51:47
your program, could be elite level high school incident
51:51
blade. You get to take it.
51:52
What's a prediction you think's going to happen in this upcoming
51:54
track and field season? You know, you get to be as
51:58
specific as you like, you know. Yeah, yeah.
52:00
I mean, put you on the spot a little bit, I mean.
52:02
I think one of the things is that I think they're with all
52:04
the changes, number one, I think track field is, is at the
52:07
highest level it's ever. Been it's amazing, NCAA, it's
52:10
amazing. It's your fault, by the way, all
52:11
your coaches. It's all your fault.
52:12
The coaches do a great job and I think that's a hard question.
52:16
I just think it's going to be really different and they're,
52:18
you know, coaches are going to have to learn to adapt and
52:20
change and be able to be competitive at the level that
52:23
they're at and in the league they're in and and what the
52:25
expectations of the. Department, Yeah.
52:27
So it's not really a great answer.
52:28
I'm sorry, all the coaches that I know, and I know a few
52:31
adaptability is their middle name, but we we don't get in our
52:34
sport and not learn how to be adaptable.
52:36
So I think if that's if that's truly what it's going to take to
52:38
move and like survive and thrive in our sport, man, we're in good
52:42
hands. I'm I'm good with that.
52:44
Bob. Thank you so much, man.
52:45
I'm grateful for you joining us, man, Thank you so much.
52:47
Absolutely. We had someone all in the game
52:50
mentioned about thanks for the mic.
52:52
I appreciate that the interesting as the addition of M
52:55
JS GST golden spike. No, what?
52:59
What what's Michael Johnson's Grand Slam track?
53:01
Oh my gosh. Golden spikes I think was an old
53:04
professional track series way back in the day in all of the
53:07
game. Also asked will incidentally
53:08
athletes be allowed to go to World Relays?
53:10
That's a great question. Someone else mentioned earlier
53:12
about the calendar for the trials for the world champs.
53:16
That's going to be that's going to be an issue.
53:17
Go ahead and move up just a little bit more.
53:19
And you saw the protocol. Yeah.
53:20
We want to hear that big beautiful voice.
53:22
Start by introducing yourself. Please my name.
53:25
Is Dave Espinoza. I'm the director of Track and
53:28
Field across country at the university.
53:30
Of one of my favorite things about your program, besides you,
53:32
of course, David, is I love this Insignia.
53:34
It's always every time I see it, it's like, that's pretty cool.
53:36
And the orange color kind of pops.
53:39
That's pretty cool, man. I love that.
53:40
I love that. All right, so you've been here
53:42
listening, you know, you know the topic of the of the day.
53:45
What's your thoughts, feelings, actions on all this stuff that's
53:48
going on with the NCAA? Yeah.
53:49
I mean, for me in particular, not being under the NCAA
53:54
umbrella, I feel like it's going to be a trickle down effect to
53:59
see what's going to happen at least for for us in the NAIA in
54:04
terms of things. So, you know, as as the, you
54:08
know, power fives and everyone else starts making those
54:11
decisions. And it's just.
54:12
Going to start filtering down and kind of see what happens so.
54:18
Has there been any talks that you're aware of on the NEIA
54:21
level about roster caps or how NIL effects or anything like
54:26
that? No.
54:27
NIL has come up a little bit, but in terms of rosters, we
54:32
haven't heard anything. I think for the most part, a lot
54:36
of NEIA schools are enrollment driven smaller liberal arts
54:41
universities. So to try to put that cap on
54:44
there could, you know, we see a lot of schools shutting down.
54:48
It could, you know, exacerbate that.
54:50
Yeah, kind of be one of those larger sport rosters.
54:54
Yeah. So that's the part that I can't
54:56
wrap my head around. Now certainly there's some
54:58
schools that don't need the track team as far as the people
55:01
on the team to help support the school, but it might be the
55:04
other way around where there's more schools that do need these
55:07
hundred hundred, 2000, thirty 150 rosters for the
55:10
survivability of the school. Yeah.
55:12
You know, we we kind of see it all the time.
55:14
If they don't have, football is the biggest one, track and field
55:18
is generally the next. Largest name another sport.
55:20
How you ain't carrying 100 people on the basketball team,
55:22
Yeah. So, you know, and then, you
55:26
know, within collegiate track and field, you know, all the
55:28
student athletes get to participate.
55:30
So, you know, it's, it's not like you said basketball where
55:34
there's five guys on the court at the time and you have 60.
55:38
You know, well, there's some people that are definitely not
55:40
getting. Into.
55:42
In that, so you know, and then in terms of NIL, you know, it's
55:47
going to be interesting. There's some schools that I've
55:50
heard within my conference in different sports that are
55:53
raising quite a bit of NIL money.
55:57
So you know, it's the viability of the sport and what you know,
56:01
you know geographically what you can provide.
56:03
In terms. Of that nil money and then you
56:06
know. Do do do you foresee an issue?
56:10
You know, NAIA has different rules, different eligibility
56:12
rules and I don't know necessarily why I'm gonna call
56:15
it the house, you know, overarching for all this
56:17
incidentally stuff house versus incidentally, I don't know why
56:20
this would affect it. But do you foresee that there'd
56:22
be an issue with a kid being able to transfer from an an AI
56:25
school to a a roster capped program because of different
56:29
eligibility? I don't know.
56:30
I might be reaching here. There there's some eligibility.
56:33
Differences that that taking to a heart, you know, you always
56:37
hope, you know, good students are always going to be able to
56:40
transfer regardless. But you know, sometimes, you
56:44
know, you get some of those developmental guys that kind of
56:47
spring out and then try to go to that Division One level.
56:50
I don't think you're going to probably see that as much with
56:53
the roster cap. I mean, they're going to
56:55
probably have to come in and you know, be in that contention of
56:59
probably hitting, you know, that top 12, top 20 in the regions,
57:05
right to like try to get to the final site.
57:08
So that'd be, you know, that's that's what's going to be
57:12
interesting. I kind of think that there may
57:15
be more of a trickle down effect like I said.
57:17
Right. More folks going division two
57:20
and. AIA and that's OK.
57:21
Division Three, that's OK, by the way.
57:23
Yeah, like literally it's interesting to me when people
57:26
talk about this will be less opportunities for high school
57:29
kids and and those kind of things.
57:31
And I'm like, are you forgetting that there's AD 2D3 NAIA junior
57:35
college? I'm there's a lot of other
57:36
levels with amazing code. Go look at that and you know,
57:38
you have to deal with this. Go look at the NAIA national
57:40
meet. You don't get to just show up
57:42
and and win 100 meters. You got a there's some dogs in
57:46
NAIA, but that means there's some coaches coaching those dogs
57:48
just in the. NAIA, two weeks ago gentleman
57:53
went 660 in the 60 meters and that.
57:56
Dude. So dude, totally you.
58:00
Know so yeah we there's always. That's amazing.
58:04
Yeah. Big dogs there.
58:05
I love that. I love that it's always about
58:07
the. You know coaches and you know
58:09
you know who you connect with and things.
58:11
Like that, right? Right.
58:13
But, you know, that's, that's the things that some people get
58:17
away from too. They think you know, Division
58:19
One scholarship or or. Bus Right D.
58:21
Two and NAI give just as. Many.
58:24
Yeah, absolutely. You know.
58:26
In Division Three, there's all those grants that they.
58:28
Give out absolutely, absolutely. I know that well-being AD 3
58:32
athlete and, and I wonder sometimes, you know, when they
58:34
talk about D1 or bust mentality because I have a lot of people,
58:37
a lot of athletes that follow me on Twitter as well.
58:40
And so I got to keep my pulse on what 1718 year old kids are
58:42
thinking and doing. I I'm not sure.
58:46
I kind of wonder, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this out
58:48
loud. I kind of wonder sometimes if
58:49
it's an excuse that other coaches say like, Oh, I lost
58:52
that kid because it was D1 or bust.
58:53
It's like, I don't know, man, there's a reason why there's a
58:56
lot of transfer, a lot of portals.
58:58
You know, I'm not, I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
59:01
All right, David, end this up here so we'll be able to check
59:04
this a year from now. You've had some time to think
59:06
about it 'cause I heard you, you know the question coming up,
59:08
what's the prediction? And it doesn't have to be this
59:10
worldly big prediction. It could be you know what, we're
59:12
going to set the shop, put school record this year.
59:15
What's a prediction? You think that's going to happen
59:16
here in 2025 for track and field?
59:18
I'll. Do one for for my for my
59:22
program, I think I will send the most student athletes to the
59:26
national championships, indoor and outdoor.
59:28
Yeah, so, you know, and you've been doing a good job.
59:33
So it's not like you just started.
59:34
That's that's a heck of a goal. Yeah.
59:36
So awesome praying. Praying for that and everything
59:39
like that. And then I think in the grand
59:41
scheme of things with these roster caps, I actually think 1
59:47
trick programs won't win an NC double.
59:51
A time so you see more diversity amongst the programs versus the
59:56
specialization of programs. With that, I could have a a a
1:00:00
debate. I could have two.
1:00:01
More than, you know, a lot of coaches on this side, a lot of
1:00:03
coaches that agree and disagree with that.
1:00:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:00:09
That's gonna be a hard one to actually check to see if it's
1:00:11
true, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:00:14
But I like it. Actually, more points being
1:00:18
scored. You know, that might that might
1:00:22
be a good way to test that is how many schools score at the
1:00:24
national meet. Yeah, I like that.
1:00:26
David, thank you so much, man. Whatever you do, keep that logo.
1:00:31
But really grateful for what you do.
1:00:32
You're growing the program and healthy things grow.
1:00:35
I'm a big believer in that. And so it's cool to see the
1:00:37
roster and how many kids are going to nationals.
1:00:39
That's coaching, baby. I love it.
1:00:40
I just want. To watch, donate.
1:00:43
Life. So please do.
1:00:43
Yeah. Tell us more about that.
1:00:44
Yeah, absolutely. Actually a double lung
1:00:46
transplant recipient about a year and a half ago.
1:00:50
So, you know, if you're out there, donate life.
1:00:53
It saves life, that's why. I'm it did, baby.
1:00:55
It absolutely did. I'm so glad that you're here,
1:00:58
honestly. You know, we're praying for you
1:01:00
and love you and just so glad to see you.
1:01:01
You're healthy and moving around and doing really positive
1:01:04
impacts with young people. That's what you're born to do.
1:01:06
Yeah, you. Can get back out there it was a
1:01:07
three month recovery out after my surgery and I.
1:01:11
Got back to work so you should have took four months, bro.
1:01:14
It's it's OK. It's OK.
1:01:15
Yeah, exactly. David, thank you so much.
1:01:17
Appreciate you, buddy. Yeah, all in the game.
1:01:22
Would love to see that debate. Right. well-rounded teams.
1:01:25
I I thought there might be some more well roundedness, but I'm
1:01:27
starting to hear more and more of the specialization because of
1:01:31
the the caps of 45 and 17 and all the things that go with it.
1:01:35
Here's the here's the cool thing is no one knows right now on
1:01:38
December 16th, 2024, but we'll know more in June and we'll
1:01:42
certainly know more December of 2025.
1:01:45
All right, my friend, how are you doing?
1:01:49
Well, start by introducing yourself, please.
1:01:50
And I don't know if you heard the rule.
1:01:51
We need the mic pretty close so everybody can hear that
1:01:53
beautiful voice. All right, I'm Tyree Price,
1:01:55
assistant track and field coach at TCU with the horizontal
1:01:58
jumps. The horizontal jumps, man,
1:02:00
you're so I love you, by the way, you do such a good job.
1:02:03
You know, USC and Bethune Cookman or SC State?
1:02:07
I I always get them mixed up. Yeah, both.
1:02:09
OK, See, I took a risk there to guess there, but always have
1:02:15
done a good job. Everywhere you go.
1:02:16
There's not just necessarily good athletes are attracted to
1:02:19
being coached by you. You make really good athletes.
1:02:23
You coach your butt off, my friend, and it's really cool to
1:02:25
see. I gave it to the athletes and
1:02:26
they make help make me. Yeah, You know, I'm glad I get
1:02:29
to do this live because one of my things that I absolutely
1:02:32
can't stand when coaches say this and Ken Harden is the worst
1:02:34
at this, is I'm just the bus driver.
1:02:37
Because here's the thing, if that's true, then I don't need
1:02:39
you. We don't need you, but we do
1:02:42
need you. You and Ken and other guys and
1:02:44
gals. Your coaching matters.
1:02:46
Yeah. OK.
1:02:46
All right, All right. I get it.
1:02:48
I know you're and you know you of all people.
1:02:50
Tyree, you're so humble. If you're you, you ooze
1:02:53
humility. I get that.
1:02:55
But don't forget the positive impact you make on young people,
1:02:57
which isn't always, by the way, what their penultimate step is.
1:03:00
It's how you treat and talk with them and lift them up because
1:03:03
you know, 99% of them are not going to GoPro in track and
1:03:06
field, but 100% of them are going to go and become business
1:03:08
owners, doctors, teachers, coaches, moms, dads, etcetera.
1:03:12
And that's that's your real positive impact that you make.
1:03:14
OK, I'm stepping off my soapbox, but we'll get you on your
1:03:18
soapbox. So you know, the theme of the
1:03:20
year that we've been talking about.
1:03:21
What's your thoughts, feelings, actions on just all this?
1:03:24
Call it craziness if you will, this change in the NC double AI
1:03:27
think? I looked at it from last year's
1:03:29
standpoint that I felt it was a, it was a good thing that's
1:03:33
coming along. You know, the negative is
1:03:35
probably less opportunities for some institutions, but then it's
1:03:40
more so for those who people who opt in, it's less opportunities
1:03:43
for those schools. But then I always said, you
1:03:46
know, because I've come from a mid, mid, mid division.
1:03:50
Level Major. And so and then HBCU as well,
1:03:54
you have opportunities to get some of the athletes that you
1:03:57
didn't have the opportunity to get before.
1:04:00
So now it opens up the the level of playing field for those
1:04:03
student athletes. You, you brought up something
1:04:05
that I, I hadn't thought about. You know, I have a lot of
1:04:09
respect and love for HBC us, mainly because the coaches that
1:04:13
I've met at HBC US are just salt to the earth people like I, you
1:04:18
know, we had Richie being here earlier.
1:04:19
I mean, just really amazing people.
1:04:23
I haven't thought specifically about them.
1:04:24
Is, is there any extra negative towards them because of the,
1:04:30
I'll call it unique situations, you know, being an HBCU,
1:04:32
etcetera, or are they lumped into the same of Division One or
1:04:35
you know, division two depending on what division they're in?
1:04:38
I, I, I really don't think there's any downside because,
1:04:40
you know, even from, if they opt in and with the 45, it kind of
1:04:44
helps them as well. Because now when you're looking
1:04:47
at numbers and when athletic directors look at numbers and
1:04:50
they're going to boosters and it's like that when the numbers
1:04:54
fluctuate and then you have no stable body from how many
1:04:57
numbers are you're dealing with student athletes.
1:04:59
So now from all levels that you say, OK, this is the maximum
1:05:04
amount of student athletes you're ever going to have in a
1:05:06
given year. She's here just to take your
1:05:07
picture, you know that. Not not me.
1:05:11
Love you guys. Thank you.
1:05:15
So when you look at it from that standpoint, now they can say,
1:05:18
OK, we're never going to have this many more athletes as a as
1:05:22
a body of athletics. And so it's easier to go to the
1:05:25
to the constituents and say, OK, this is how much money we're
1:05:29
going to need to able to fund this this probe of the athletic.
1:05:32
Department because we're. Never going to, but when you had
1:05:34
before, you can have 100 people on your team, you can have 50
1:05:38
people. And so it can always fluctuate
1:05:41
from that standpoint. So it's pretty significantly.
1:05:43
The money and keeping it stable like well this year you ask for
1:05:46
this amount of money, next that year you ask for this.
1:05:49
Money, you never ask for less, by the way.
1:05:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got you got half the roster, but you ask
1:05:52
for more. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:05:53
So if you know my my boss is over there, I do I do the same
1:05:56
thing in my budget every every year.
1:05:58
Every year. I'm glad he's not listening.
1:05:59
Sorry. So.
1:06:01
Wendy know that this is the Max amount of.
1:06:03
Yeah, you can say, OK. That's a great point.
1:06:05
Where? Our high size is going to be
1:06:07
we're going to go lower. But yeah, this is where high.
1:06:09
Size is the next. It gives some stability to
1:06:11
because I think you know right now today you you've got to do a
1:06:14
lot of things with roster management.
1:06:16
Boy with this 45 and 17 like you are AGM, you are now today, but
1:06:21
you are really AGM on roster management.
1:06:23
How you do your red shirts who when someone gets injured, who
1:06:26
you going to carry indoor versus outdoor versus cross?
1:06:30
But you do know the maximum though, right?
1:06:32
Which is different today? Now the other thing is it forces
1:06:36
coaches to really forecast their recruiting out and and really
1:06:40
understand those things. The best of those, those coaches
1:06:43
are not forecasting out. You're just looking for today.
1:06:46
You're going to be caught up. Yeah.
1:06:47
Come in in two years or three years.
1:06:49
So, so how would your best guess?
1:06:51
So you know, recruiting. So let's say it's 45.
1:06:54
So if things are equal and they're typically not ever
1:06:57
equal, right, that means 10 to 12:00-ish per class.
1:07:00
Not counting a full rich, that that's four years only, right?
1:07:03
Not counting 5. And if we, if you're going to be
1:07:05
a full team, that means 10 people spread out of your
1:07:09
distance, your throws, your jumps, your sprints, maybe
1:07:12
multi, etcetera. Are you recruiting like you
1:07:16
doing jumps? Are you like, down to like just
1:07:18
recruiting two kids a year? No, Well, it's, it's comes down
1:07:23
to I think what each director or or head coach wants to do.
1:07:26
And so it just comes out, you got to get the best athletes
1:07:29
that's going to help your program to be the best that they
1:07:31
can be. So you may be 0, it could be 0.
1:07:34
The Sprint coach may say, hey, I got 510 flat kids right now,
1:07:38
boss, right? Yeah.
1:07:39
And, and, and that that's what you want to look at is what's
1:07:41
going to better your program for conference and what's going to
1:07:44
better according to internationals.
1:07:45
So do you this just kind of, I got a little bit of goosebumps
1:07:48
actually. So let's, let's say it's evenly
1:07:50
and you recruit two kids a year. Let's just, and, and I realize
1:07:53
what you're saying. I respect that.
1:07:54
Does that mean, and I hope the answer is yes.
1:07:57
And I know we're all conjecture here, but does that mean you
1:08:00
might have a better? I, I hate this term, but you'll,
1:08:03
you'll understand exactly what I'm saying.
1:08:04
Work life balance, because right now you could be recruiting.
1:08:07
I, I, I imagine you start at 40, 50 and it whittles down to the
1:08:10
456, whatever you sign. Is this me Like, oh, I only have
1:08:13
to go after 5 or 6 to get my two.
1:08:16
I can actually be a human being and not a track coach 24/7
1:08:19
because that's not healthy. Yes and no.
1:08:22
And I'm going to say, and I say that because.
1:08:25
Notice all the good coaches always say maybe and yes or no.
1:08:28
I like that because you're not sure if you're going to get just
1:08:31
those two people. So because everybody else is
1:08:34
probably after those same two people, you still have to
1:08:36
recruit. You hope so, or you there might
1:08:38
be the two wrong people. So you're hoping that you're
1:08:41
getting you got to have a stable of people.
1:08:43
So just in case the two that you're top are going after, you
1:08:47
can't get them that OK with these the next two.
1:08:49
People. So you've got to keep a
1:08:51
connection with X amount of people and and figure out how to
1:08:55
do that correctly, meaning not leading people on.
1:08:57
And hey, I've I've signed my two that I'm allowed Mr. Mrs. Third
1:09:01
Person. Hey, call my buddy Coach so and
1:09:04
so at this school or, you know, or, or again, if they're you're
1:09:06
recruiting the right people, they have they've got their own
1:09:08
backgrounds. Yeah.
1:09:09
And so. And in that case, like you just
1:09:12
said, is being able to take that person over.
1:09:14
And it's like, you know, listen, you know, we, we've reached the
1:09:16
limit of what we can do. I can help you get to the best
1:09:19
situation for you, right? Yeah, that.
1:09:21
That's what's called longevity, by the way, and means you can
1:09:24
recruit two more people that you like 20 years from now.
1:09:26
You'll still be a respected person.
1:09:27
I love it. All right, Tyree, So we're going
1:09:29
to publish this again next December as we're leading into
1:09:31
the 2025 convention. So we'll be able to check to see
1:09:34
this answer. Give us a prediction for
1:09:36
something that's going to happen in track and field.
1:09:38
It could be TCU school record. You know, you're going to set
1:09:41
the long jump school, which that's a heck of a school
1:09:43
record, by the way. It could be, you know, someone
1:09:46
earlier said, no, Lyles is going to bounce back and win the 100
1:09:49
and 200. So it could be as high as low,
1:09:51
anywhere in between. Just what's, what do you think?
1:09:52
Something that's exciting, maybe that's going to happen here in
1:09:55
2025. Rob Benjamin is going to
1:09:57
dominate. Again, Oh bro, come on, I said.
1:09:59
You got to give some hard to this.
1:10:00
Come on. I had a conversation with Joanna
1:10:03
Hayes at Prefontaine two years ago.
1:10:08
It was talking about rye and you know, they're at that point the
1:10:11
the I hate to say to me, people were like, oh, he's
1:10:15
underperforming, you know, the war home is beating, blah, blah.
1:10:18
And she's like, they have no idea what's going on, you know,
1:10:21
the plan and things like that. And I was like, Hey, here's the
1:10:23
cool thing. And I know doesn't care about
1:10:26
other people think in regards this.
1:10:28
I go, who cares what they think? Just show up and do it.
1:10:30
And she's like, that's exactly what we're going to do.
1:10:32
And so for them to have the I was so excited, like so pumped
1:10:35
as she goes into a head coaching position herself.
1:10:37
Like, I was really happy for Rye and and for her, but you know.
1:10:41
But Mama being at USC? For some time.
1:10:43
Here, watching Rye really train. It was.
1:10:46
Setting up, it's just. Small that's true.
1:10:48
You had insider view to this? Yeah, so.
1:10:50
The injuries that they happen in, they kind of threw you
1:10:52
railed him that year. Yeah, yeah, you saw was.
1:10:54
It built up. Oh, yeah, It built up.
1:10:56
And, And I'm not sure, and it's hard to say this because of what
1:11:00
he ran and all this because I'm not sure he's at the cut.
1:11:02
I think there's more in the tank.
1:11:03
Oh, there's a lot more in the tank.
1:11:04
Yeah. And.
1:11:05
He's more fired up now than than you thought, but before.
1:11:09
I love that. I was at, I think it was
1:11:11
Prefontaine somewhere. I had to be in line for one of
1:11:14
these these type of meetings that rye was running in and he
1:11:16
was behind me in line. And so I took AI snuck a picture
1:11:19
over my and I and I tweeted and said, hey, does anybody
1:11:20
recognize this guy? He looks kind of fast.
1:11:22
And I tagged him. Yeah.
1:11:23
It was kind of funny. I was like, that's the closest
1:11:25
ride Benjamin's ever gonna know who the world I I am.
1:11:27
Tyree. Thank you so much, man.
1:11:29
I'm really grateful for you to sit down here.
1:11:31
You know, I'm a big fan of yours from a long time ago.
1:11:34
And it's just so awesome to see the success because you deserve
1:11:37
every bit of it. And the athletes that you get to
1:11:38
coach are are very deserved of you as well, man.
1:11:40
So very, very grateful. You need to pick it back up
1:11:47
though. I think I've said this to you
1:11:48
every year. You know exactly what I'm
1:11:51
talking about. The show's coming back.
1:11:53
Out good. What's going on?
1:11:54
Thank you. You have got.
1:11:55
We're we're recording starting next week, we're going to start.
1:11:58
Recording, you have got to go check it out.
1:12:00
Go on is probably the easiest place to social media like maybe
1:12:03
YouTube, probably, maybe YouTube.
1:12:04
Go to YouTube. If I search your name, will it
1:12:06
pop up? What's the name you call it?
1:12:07
The goal? The making of champions.
1:12:09
Making of Champions. He has had really amazing people
1:12:14
on his show and that's coming from a guy who thinks I have
1:12:16
amazing people. I I do.
1:12:17
I don't, I know. I don't think I know.
1:12:19
And it's really enjoyable to see a different style and a
1:12:23
different, you know, you come at it from a different angle
1:12:25
because of where you, what you're doing today is coaching.
1:12:26
So you, you know me, I don't think of those things as
1:12:29
competition. I think of it as greatness for
1:12:31
our sport. So you know, I'm always going to
1:12:33
be like more, more, more while you're doing your job and having
1:12:36
a life. I get it, I get it.
1:12:37
But what you're doing is important, and I'm grateful that
1:12:40
you're contributing to our great coaches in that way.
1:12:42
Thank you very much. Thank you, brother.
1:12:44
Appreciate you very much. Oh, we got a prediction by by
1:12:53
the way, yes, Tyree works with Marissa Chu there at TCU.
1:12:58
Of course the coaches collab love her and the Athletics LLC
1:13:02
and what they're doing there. We got a prediction here.
1:13:03
Jasmine Jones will run sub 52 and the 400 hurdles Jamisa Ford
1:13:08
will run. You got a lot of predictions
1:13:10
here sub 44 and Caleb Brown will run sub 49 and might even break
1:13:13
the NCAA 400 meter record. Now that is a that's a bold,
1:13:18
bold prediction. We're going to do.
1:13:20
We're going to do one more after him.
1:13:22
Do you want to be it? And then we'll be done because
1:13:23
he's going to want to feed me and so and I want to be fed.
1:13:27
So, so hey, so guys, he'll be the next one and and then we're
1:13:31
done. OK.
1:13:32
All right. I'm going against a hungry Mike,
1:13:35
so I I got to make sure I keep this.
1:13:37
That sounds like a a YouTube show.
1:13:39
The Hungry Mike's. I just appreciate him not
1:13:42
calling me hungry hungry hippo. That's always that's always nice
1:13:44
of him not to to call me that. Start out by introducing
1:13:47
yourself, Sir, and you know the rules and you're a little bit
1:13:48
more experienced than some of us Mic up to the mouth.
1:13:51
So everybody. Can.
1:13:51
Oh yeah, you gotta eat the mic. If I get sick afterwards, I'll
1:13:54
blame you, but. Just ignore those those ones.
1:13:57
Greg Schmidt headed cross country track and field cause,
1:13:59
University of Bridgeport men and women.
1:14:01
And a Gill Connections podcast alum do gotta plug you're
1:14:05
listening to right now. So I don't need to really plug
1:14:07
it, but go check out the library.
1:14:09
Amazing coaches that we've had as we're getting closer and
1:14:12
closer to 300, man, it really kind of boggles my mind that
1:14:15
we're getting near 300. All right, so you know, the
1:14:18
topic of the day, we are talking about the NCAA and all the
1:14:22
changes, NIL, roster, caps, I mean, just there's just
1:14:28
something, there's so many avenues to go down to it.
1:14:29
What's your thoughts, feelings, actions on all this change?
1:14:32
Well, well, the more that we allow negative things to be
1:14:37
allowed through the NCAA, you know, it's kind of started with
1:14:39
the NIL. Oh, I'm in the way.
1:14:42
You, you bumped stuff, that's all.
1:14:44
Oh, I did last time too. I think you did.
1:14:45
Don't you need your parents to teach you not to put the elbows
1:14:47
on the table? Well, I'm, I'm old, I need to
1:14:49
rest. But the, the more that negative
1:14:53
decisions are made, it's, it's just gonna make it easier for
1:14:56
things to kind of snowball out of control in my opinion.
1:15:00
Now, especially track and field, but pretty much most Olympic
1:15:03
sports, we're in a tunnel on the train tracks and we're like,
1:15:07
hey, look at that pretty light coming towards us, not really
1:15:10
seeing what's happening to us and.
1:15:13
So you think we're a little blind to some of this?
1:15:15
I think we're blind to some of this and, you know, talk with a
1:15:18
lot of the coaches and which I've been doing all week long,
1:15:21
all week long. It's been 2 days.
1:15:22
But when I hear, oh, well, no, this is just gonna affect a few
1:15:27
programs. This is just gonna affect.
1:15:29
No, it's gonna be. I don't wanna.
1:15:31
Say a trickle down effect. It's it's gonna be a direct
1:15:34
effect. To.
1:15:34
So many programs, you know, the the haves are gonna get
1:15:38
stronger, the have nots are gonna get weaker.
1:15:42
This started with nil. Someone earlier said Grand
1:15:45
Canyon between the haves and haves nots.
1:15:47
Yes. And you know, being a Division 2
1:15:50
coach, the the D ones that you know, you have to have those
1:15:53
roster limits. Now, first of all, they're gonna
1:15:55
struggle. But those athletes, they're not
1:15:58
gonna go to every single D2 and D3.
1:16:00
They're gonna go to ones that already have the resources.
1:16:02
So the the D twos that are just trying to get by, they're not
1:16:05
gonna get those kids. So the D twos.
1:16:07
That are. Higher are gonna get stronger as
1:16:09
a result. You're think I'm thinking it's
1:16:11
gonna, you know, naively think it's gonna trickle equally
1:16:15
amongst D2D3. It's a you're saying that
1:16:18
whatever chasm because, you know, in between all divisions
1:16:21
there are haves and haves nots whether it's budget easy to get
1:16:25
in at school versus, you know, harder schools, things like
1:16:27
that. You're saying that even amongst
1:16:30
those in your right? I wish there's a better word
1:16:31
than trickle. Right trickling are going to
1:16:34
help the people that are already good.
1:16:36
Oh yeah, chasm in that world as well.
1:16:38
Well. There's, there's a, there's a
1:16:39
naivete that all division twos are equal, that you're allowed
1:16:42
to have that amount of scholarships and you have that
1:16:45
amount of facilities and funding.
1:16:46
And a lot of schools don't, you know, they're, they're trying to
1:16:49
deal with enrollment. And you know me, I don't mince
1:16:52
words. I mean, I think the worst thing
1:16:53
that happened not just to college athletics, but higher
1:16:56
education was letting you know, for lack of a better term,
1:17:00
nitwit knucklehead businessmen to kind of take over and
1:17:03
educators actually stepping out of the role.
1:17:05
So when you think about the bottom line, which is what
1:17:08
they're doing, they they don't really care about your athletic
1:17:11
programs getting stronger. You take out Little Joey and
1:17:13
Little Jane and replace it by dollar signs only.
1:17:16
Exactly. And it's and it's more about the
1:17:17
bottom line of everything when. How many people got into
1:17:20
education and coaches for the dollar signs?
1:17:21
They got into it for the Jane's and Joeys.
1:17:23
Right. And the professors, the
1:17:25
professors as well as the coaches, they, they want to be
1:17:28
part of education because coaching is a form of education
1:17:30
as much people don't really recognize that it really should
1:17:33
be. And you know, I, I get
1:17:35
frustrated with my fellow coaches, which I love what you
1:17:37
do because you highlight the coaches here.
1:17:39
But when, you know, I hear things like, well, I don't want
1:17:43
anybody on my team that's not faster than 21, seven or
1:17:46
whatever the case might be. OK, well, are you coaching at
1:17:49
that point or are you just trying to get the best athletes
1:17:51
possible in order to do that? There's not a lot of education
1:17:53
going on. Yeah, I don't know that you're
1:17:55
necessarily going to this Ave. but it's an Ave. that I always
1:17:57
fight a back against is that they're not developing just
1:18:01
'cause they get fast kits. Oh, no, I don't think, I don't
1:18:03
think you're a real. I don't.
1:18:04
Think that I I I just think at that point.
1:18:06
I see what you're saying about roster management versus, you
1:18:10
know, we like to define development as, oh, I took a a
1:18:14
10 minute 2 Miller high school boy and now they run 8 flat or
1:18:17
whatever in the 3K whatever. But you know a kid who runs 8
1:18:20
flat in the two mile out of high school.
1:18:22
That would never happen, right? Actually, never say never, never
1:18:24
say. You guys are coaching these
1:18:26
days. But taking that kid from I
1:18:29
should have stuck. I usually do this analogy with
1:18:30
100 meter dash. I should have stuck with air,
1:18:32
But you take a kid who's running 830 in the two mile out of high
1:18:35
school and they and you make them, you need them to run 820.
1:18:39
That is still development and still as hard.
1:18:40
By the way, I'm not comparing one's harder than the other.
1:18:42
That's still hard And and and I say.
1:18:44
This all the time. There's diminishing return as
1:18:46
you get better. So if you're a thrower going
1:18:48
from a 40 foot high school shot putter to a 40.
1:18:52
Five sometimes it's a little bit most times it's a little bit
1:18:55
easier than taking a guy that's 60 foot turned him to a 62
1:18:57
footer. Would you want the job Speaking
1:18:59
of shot put of trying to take what what's Ryan Krauser's PR 74
1:19:02
feet something 76 yeah yeah. Would you like to be the one
1:19:06
who's responsible for taking him from 76 to 76 foot 2 exactly
1:19:10
yeah. Hard that every.
1:19:10
Quarter of it's developed, yes, every quarter of an inch is a
1:19:13
struggle. At that point, it's just like a
1:19:15
sprinter taking a guy who's just developing from 24 down to like
1:19:20
a 22 nine. Yeah, a little bit easier task
1:19:22
than going from a 20 point. One, I don't know, easier.
1:19:24
I, I, I, I stay away from those words.
1:19:27
Well, it's the diminishing. Both is hard.
1:19:28
Both are hard. Both are hard.
1:19:30
And, and really the truth of it is both are developing and
1:19:33
that's the real real. Truth, right?
1:19:34
And I, I just think we've, we've gotten away from the coaching
1:19:39
being in a form of education. I agree with that thinking a lot
1:19:42
of that. I appreciate you bringing that
1:19:44
up because you can easily replace that your coach with
1:19:47
teacher. Absolutely.
1:19:48
Oh yeah, and by the way, your English teacher is a coach too.
1:19:50
Just he or she's teaching, coaching Shakespeare or whatever
1:19:54
grammatical. And, and for me, that's, that's
1:19:56
what the disappointing thing is, like I said in higher education
1:19:59
as a whole, it's it's moved away from education and it's more of
1:20:03
a business now. And you know I'm not that.
1:20:06
Old, I think for 20 years. Is it too late to turn back?
1:20:08
Because no. I think, I think the fact that
1:20:12
there there is such a removal of a lot of universities that
1:20:16
universities are going to have to focus more on what is the
1:20:19
best thing for us. It's going to be promoting our
1:20:21
education and promoting our academic programs.
1:20:24
And then the athletes that come in specifically for that is
1:20:28
what's going to help it out. Yeah, in my opinion.
1:20:30
All right, prediction time. So we're going to be able to
1:20:33
check this in a year from now. What's a prediction you have?
1:20:36
Could be your program, could be elite, could be high school,
1:20:40
just something to track and field.
1:20:41
What's a a prediction? I I think that there's.
1:20:43
Gonna be a lot of jostling with Grand Prix track and field
1:20:45
starting off, yeah? I think Grand Slam, negative
1:20:48
Grand Slam, yeah, Grand Prix was a he might have a marketing
1:20:51
issue 'cause I also called it the Golden Spikes Tour, which,
1:20:53
oh really? That's like from 1980 I think,
1:20:55
to be honest with. You.
1:20:55
Yeah. No, I think, I think that with
1:20:57
with that, there's going to be a little bit more competition and
1:21:01
our sport as a whole does need to grow and we need to fine tune
1:21:03
to figure out better ways to market itself.
1:21:05
Do you have issues that there are no field events?
1:21:08
Yes, I do. Yeah.
1:21:10
And I I saw what you know, they were saying about it of, you
1:21:13
know, I could save track but I can't save field.
1:21:15
Yeah, yeah. We just need somebody like that
1:21:18
to step in for the field side of things.
1:21:20
Yeah. And show, yeah, you know, I
1:21:22
think Drake does a great job with a lot of the field events
1:21:24
they do with the pole vault in the mall, in the street and
1:21:26
things like that. So the more we can do to kind of
1:21:29
market our sport a little bit better 'cause it is an exciting
1:21:31
sport when it's on property. I agree with that.
1:21:33
I love that. Hey, thank you so much man.
1:21:35
I'm always so grateful for you. Thanks for not going to the
1:21:37
comedy club. Instead, you stayed here this
1:21:40
time. I appreciate that very.
1:21:41
Much I I would have gotten a tepid response anyway, so I'll
1:21:43
stay here instead. Thank you, brother.
1:21:48
Thank you, buddy. Appreciate you, man.
1:21:49
All right. Yeah.
1:21:50
Marcus, do you have? I can't say it.
1:21:58
I will always take you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:22:00
Let me get Richie. I'm going to do real quick with
1:22:01
Richie because I want you last. I want you.
1:22:03
I want you my anchor leg. And Richie always, if he ever
1:22:07
wants to sit down with me, I always sit down.
1:22:09
He just makes it longer by doing this.
1:22:13
Yeah. Yeah.
1:22:15
Ryan Krauser's birthday is on Wednesday, and he turns 32.
1:22:19
Holy cow. I can't believe he's only 32.
1:22:22
Scoot in a little bit here with me.
1:22:24
They want to see your beautiful face and microphone has to be
1:22:27
pretty close to your mouth. Introduce yourself as if you
1:22:29
need any introduction. Hi, I'm Richard Bean, head track
1:22:34
and field coach cross country at Alabama State University.
1:22:37
How do you resist not wearing 1 championship ring on every
1:22:41
finger everywhere you go 'cause after as many as you have won
1:22:44
with your athletes and coaching Staffs?
1:22:46
I would do it everywhere I go. You know, I I have one that I I
1:22:51
wear all the time. The other ones are in the man
1:22:53
cave. Yeah, how big of a ring display
1:22:57
must you have, dude, I. Have two cases.
1:23:00
Yeah, dude, it's still so iconic that picture on online of it and
1:23:06
that was like probably 10 rings ago, by the way.
1:23:09
It's a really, it's like the iconic Michael Jordan picture
1:23:12
when he had, you know, a ring for each finger.
1:23:14
It always reminds us like, oh, this is our version right here.
1:23:17
Hey, Mr. Richie Bean, by the way, Guild podcast alum use the
1:23:20
same podcast you're listening to right now, unless you're
1:23:23
watching live, of course, and you got to hear this story, this
1:23:27
journey, his journey and story is important and pretty heart
1:23:32
felt there. There was there's some tragedy
1:23:34
there that I'm so grateful for you to, you know, open up and be
1:23:37
authentic and tell us. But it's what we all go through
1:23:40
some of these things like this. And I'm just grateful for you
1:23:42
again, sharing that with our listeners.
1:23:44
All right, Richie there. The topic for the year, the
1:23:48
night here is the incident of A and all the changes that are
1:23:51
going on. You're at A Division One school
1:23:52
that has done really, really well, really, really well with
1:23:55
developing kids. However you wanted to find that,
1:23:56
but kids being at the highest, highest level, many, many
1:24:00
championships. What do you think, thoughts,
1:24:03
feelings, actions on all this incident of a stuff?
1:24:05
How it might affect you, maybe how you're preparing for it?
1:24:07
What's your thoughts? Well, to be honest with you
1:24:10
there, there's, there's so many thoughts.
1:24:14
And honestly, Mike, I'm, I'm in a listening phase at this point
1:24:18
right now. I lean on the side of wisdom.
1:24:23
I've been blessed and privileged to send in several different
1:24:26
rooms at the NCA level, USCFCCA level and hear a lot of voices.
1:24:32
But I think one of the biggest thing now is people need to
1:24:35
educate themselves on what is and what's not.
1:24:38
How do you do that, though, when there has been so little
1:24:42
guidance sent down? We don't know.
1:24:45
Like it's so funny. Even just tonight, we've had
1:24:47
people say that the, you know, utilizing the 45 and 17 numbers,
1:24:50
that the 17 on your cross country roster are not going to
1:24:54
count towards your 45. And then someone else's down
1:24:55
says, Oh yeah, no, they are. And then you can opt in, but you
1:25:00
can also not opt in and still go to NC Double HI Mean there's
1:25:03
there's been this is where I think they did a really bad job.
1:25:06
But by the way, I think the World Athletics did a bad job
1:25:08
with this with their new rules. Like that long jump specifically
1:25:10
is they throw this stuff out there and then just leave it up
1:25:14
to us to figure, not not even figure it out, because they're
1:25:16
going to figure it out, but they leave it up to us to guess and
1:25:19
conjecture and stress about. There's just so little actual
1:25:23
guidance towards you guys on what you are actually going to
1:25:26
be able to do and not do and how it's going to operate.
1:25:28
Well, Mike, it's, it's a lot of things and, and, and you just
1:25:32
hit the nail on the head. You've talked to several
1:25:34
different coaches tonight and you heard several different
1:25:37
things that were somewhere. On the same wildly different,
1:25:41
yes, right. And you know, this, this, this,
1:25:45
this, this thing going on with the with the changes and things
1:25:49
like that, I've heard from administrators, I've heard from
1:25:52
coaches, I've heard from almost every level.
1:25:56
And you'll get different answers from everybody.
1:25:57
And it's, it's kind of disheartening.
1:26:01
It is. Because the sport that I grew to
1:26:04
love is the sport now that I I often question myself, do I
1:26:09
still want to be a part of? Because what happened to old
1:26:11
school coaching? What happened to every young
1:26:15
man, every young woman put on a uniform, go out there, represent
1:26:19
their family name, their school name and their university.
1:26:22
Or. Whatever to the best of their
1:26:24
ability. I mean, we're, we're, we're,
1:26:26
we're pushing toward making it a team sport.
1:26:30
And I mean, if you're good at what you do, track is one of the
1:26:33
the true sports where anybody and everybody can get the
1:26:38
business any day, even if your own.
1:26:39
Teammate and that's the beauty of it where if you.
1:26:43
Run in 100, there's no time. Out.
1:26:44
Yeah, that's right. Once you start down the runway,
1:26:48
it's it's you against. Everything else and.
1:26:50
Now, I mean, how do you conceptualize that into making
1:26:54
it something different than? What it's what?
1:26:56
It's been for so many. Years, that's what I struggle
1:26:58
with. Yeah.
1:27:00
Do you in wise words for someone who's been around for a while
1:27:03
and you know, I'm always conflicted when I say this next
1:27:06
thing about coaches of your age and stages.
1:27:09
Yeah, yeah, I'm going there. You're going to retire and and I
1:27:13
and I'm going to say this hopefully soon.
1:27:16
And what I mean by that is because I think you deserve it,
1:27:18
not because I want you, you know, I don't want you out of
1:27:20
coaching, but I want you to and your family to enjoy retirement.
1:27:25
We all hopefully went towards retirement.
1:27:27
Do you have not not knowing and you don't have to reflect
1:27:31
anything here tonight. That could be next year, could
1:27:33
be 10 years. I don't know.
1:27:34
We don't need to know, but but it's imminent in that sense with
1:27:37
with you. Do you look at this differently?
1:27:39
Like are you and this isn't the Richie being that I know.
1:27:42
So I'm sure you're going to answer no to this.
1:27:44
Are you just like, I'm just going to bide my time, Mike.
1:27:47
I'm going to be gone retired here in 2345.
1:27:49
It's not going to really affect me or because of the leadership
1:27:52
I know that is within you. Are you like, yeah, yeah, OK.
1:27:55
I may have two, 3-4, whatever, you know, time frame you have.
1:27:57
I'm going to lead every second that I have.
1:27:59
Well, it's, it's, it's, it's so funny that you bought that.
1:28:04
But man, you know, you and I are are 222 men with like spirits.
1:28:09
Yep, right. Just last week, you know, I'm
1:28:14
not saying that I'm, I'm looking to retire, but I, I literally
1:28:17
last week went in and start putting my ducks in a row.
1:28:20
Just making sure because I mean, I, when I get out on the track,
1:28:24
I enjoy being out there with a student.
1:28:28
It's so fun. But when you sit in the office.
1:28:30
And you sit. In these meetings, it makes you
1:28:33
wonder. What am I doing?
1:28:36
How has this changed? How has it changed?
1:28:39
You know, and I'm not, I'm not rushing to get out of sport.
1:28:43
I think I have many more years ahead of me.
1:28:45
But I want to. I don't want to be somewhere
1:28:47
where I'm not enjoying it. I don't want to be a part.
1:28:50
Of and you deserve to be at some place where you're enjoying it
1:28:52
yes, in a profession that you enjoy and.
1:28:55
Be somewhere where you're tolerating.
1:28:57
I'm not saying that toward my. Universe, but it's.
1:28:59
It's a lot of things that people are doing to tolerate.
1:29:03
Each other now. And that's the part where, well,
1:29:05
you know, we'll do this for now, or we'll do this.
1:29:07
I just we really, really as coaches, as a sport, need to
1:29:12
take a hard look. We need to stop putting stuff
1:29:15
out there that's not true. It's a lot of things going out.
1:29:18
That's not true. There's a lot of information
1:29:20
that's not that's not fully vetted and and it's a lot of
1:29:23
things out there administrators are trying to figure.
1:29:25
Out. And, and, and the coaches and
1:29:28
the kids are suffering. I don't know, Mike.
1:29:32
Yeah, see, but yeah, we'll we'll take you as long as there's
1:29:36
still a sport we got to have a sport that's we're very keen on
1:29:38
that, Richie. Thank you so much, man.
1:29:40
A little shorter tonight, but again, I implore you to go and
1:29:43
take take a listen to his his journey because it was special,
1:29:47
man, you're special. And one of the most proud things
1:29:50
that you can say to me is that you and I are kindred spirits,
1:29:52
man, that there's a lot of other good compliments you can give me
1:29:55
that one. That one stirs my soul, brother.
1:29:57
I appreciate you my. Brother, look, thank you.
1:30:00
Love you. We're down, you better hop in
1:30:06
before he always leaves me before it's done.
1:30:12
Are you really? Which one are you going to?
1:30:17
I I've been literally busy boss. Every good relay has to have an
1:30:31
anchor. It just you can have three great
1:30:33
legs and you put me on the anchor and you just wasted those
1:30:37
three people. So I'm really proud, really
1:30:40
happy to have the best anchor leg I could have had.
1:30:43
Every year we've done this, we've always had kind of we've
1:30:46
got Blake Bolden start us off every year and I'm proud of that
1:30:48
and love him and we've always had a great last person and
1:30:52
that's going to hold true today. This year here in 2024 start by
1:30:56
and you got to make sure the microphones close to you here
1:30:58
start by introducing yourself please.
1:31:00
My name is Marquis Lowe, director of track and field for
1:31:03
Kankakee School District and the Vipers Track Club from Illinois.
1:31:06
So you. Guys say the state and
1:31:08
everybody's listening. They're like, where's Kankakee?
1:31:10
I've never heard of that. Thanks for joining us.
1:31:13
Appreciate that. And by the way, guilt podcast
1:31:15
alum. So please go check out his
1:31:16
story, his journey. Really it's it's so much fun and
1:31:19
we really it was interesting with you.
1:31:20
You know, we get these different topics with each guest to talk
1:31:23
about a director of track and field on the high school side
1:31:27
and how that reflects middle school and high school and
1:31:30
really is fascinating actually. I'm really appreciate you you
1:31:33
doing that. So as a high school coach, help
1:31:36
us understand what are you thinking about all this NCAA
1:31:40
change and how that might reflect into the high school
1:31:43
kids. You've got a lot of kids that go
1:31:45
on to college on all levels. What are you thinking, thoughts,
1:31:48
feelings, actions and all this change here?
1:31:50
You know what change is always good depending on which area
1:31:56
we're we're working towards. So for the new changes that are
1:32:00
coming for the NCAA, may be good for some of the Power 5 schools,
1:32:05
but I think that at the lower levels, they're going to
1:32:09
struggle just a little bit only because, you know, the roster
1:32:13
limits are going to cut a lot of things.
1:32:15
And most of the programs are not telling track and field coaches
1:32:18
exactly what they have going on. And some cultures do know what
1:32:23
they have going on. So it's going to be interesting
1:32:26
to see what all happens at the end.
1:32:28
What about so you, you, you routinely have multiple kids
1:32:31
that are college eligible as far as you know, the athleticism and
1:32:35
academics and things like that. What are you?
1:32:38
How are you maybe preparing your athletes, your juniors,
1:32:41
sophomores, freshmen and maybe seniors this year?
1:32:44
I guess how are you? Well, actually let's let's pause
1:32:47
that. Let's start with today's
1:32:48
seniors. You have kids that are being
1:32:50
recruited now, yes. What have you seen anything
1:32:51
change right now? 2024?
1:32:53
These kids that are graduating in 2025, what have you seen
1:32:55
change for them so? Much this year, I think a lot of
1:32:58
the changes are going to happen next year.
1:33:00
So a lot of my seniors are signed and going where they need
1:33:03
to go. I think this junior class coming
1:33:06
up is when the changes are going to come in, yeah.
1:33:08
Fair enough. So what are you doing?
1:33:10
If if anything at this point, you know a fair answer would be
1:33:13
nothing because we don't know, but what are you maybe doing or
1:33:16
talking or preparing them differently and their parents
1:33:20
right for the the journey of being recruited as you as best
1:33:24
as you can see my. My message to all of them is
1:33:28
just keep all your options open because you know.
1:33:30
It's been a theme of yours before.
1:33:32
You're not one of these. I don't know this guy actually.
1:33:34
I just maybe have not met this person that says no when all my
1:33:37
kids go do you want or it doesn't matter?
1:33:38
I don't really see that. I'm sorry, you've certainly been
1:33:41
the guy. It's like, hey man, you want to
1:33:42
go D2D3 what's best for you? Your ego is not wrapped into
1:33:46
what school they signed. Yeah, because I think it's
1:33:48
important for them to understand that you could be successful at
1:33:51
any level. I think, you know, when we get
1:33:53
into our Division One in our Power 5 schools, a lot of kids
1:33:56
that those are the dream schools that a lot of kids really have
1:33:59
to have the Marks and then have some great academic standards.
1:34:03
But you know, at those Power 5 schools, you need both and
1:34:07
you're not going to be able to survive.
1:34:08
So you it's, it's okay to look at those division two, Division
1:34:12
Three NAIA Juco's. And then when you do get those
1:34:15
marks, if you want to transfer out until the get into the
1:34:18
transfer port, I think that's important as well.
1:34:20
Just knowing that there is a a different route for, you know,
1:34:24
different athletes and and different calibers, because
1:34:27
sometimes you have late bloomers that really get into like they
1:34:30
don't grow into two years and and then they were.
1:34:32
Talking about 18 year old kids, by the way.
1:34:34
You know, when they get to college, they don't understand.
1:34:37
It's more so like a job. You, you know, you got to study
1:34:39
hall, you got to go to practice and nobody's going to make you
1:34:42
do anything. So the will, the want, it's it's
1:34:45
all about their will. And so we're just preparing our
1:34:47
athletes right now like, hey, the standards are changing, so
1:34:51
please make sure that you're prepared for every level no
1:34:53
matter what. Do you foresee or are you seeing
1:34:56
today any drop in participation rates amongst your middle school
1:35:00
and high school athletes? No, our middle school averages
1:35:03
about 90 kids per year. Since I've been there for seven
1:35:07
years, our high school teeters up and down a little bit, but
1:35:11
we've had great success on the men, well on the girls and the
1:35:15
boys side in track and field. So and our numbers are actually
1:35:19
fairly high for this time around December.
1:35:22
We are around 60 total athletes that have been coming to
1:35:26
conditioning. And that's really, really.
1:35:27
Big for our high school. So I'm looking forward to when
1:35:30
some of the other sports get out because we got basketball going
1:35:34
on our our football team, they just went to I think I want to
1:35:39
say the second third round. So we are getting those athletes
1:35:41
coming in right now and you know, our team is gonna be
1:35:44
fairly big this year, so not on our side.
1:35:47
I think we're gonna be bigger than we've been in the last
1:35:49
couple of years for sure. So let's put you in, put you in
1:35:52
the spot here. We're close enough.
1:35:54
I feel like I can do that, right?
1:35:55
You can always just drive down and yell at me next week if you
1:35:58
really want to, right? You've got a kid who good
1:36:03
athlete, but they're they're just not, you know, let's say
1:36:07
Division One caliber. They could be, they might be
1:36:11
maybe they have a young training age or whatever, but they grew
1:36:13
up in Kankakee. They grew up a huge fighting a
1:36:16
line I right, it's just down the road.
1:36:18
And certainly with the coaches we've had in the past and the
1:36:20
coaching staff that we have now, they're you know, that's a
1:36:23
that's a destination place to go and compete at.
1:36:25
You've had many people. You're something you're an alum
1:36:27
of of the fighting a line I so it's my wife.
1:36:30
So I always got to plug a fighting a line I in Troy
1:36:32
University. It's a constant battle, but the
1:36:36
kids just not, you know, why aren't they calling me coach or
1:36:38
hey, I got a letter from them, but you know, they're not
1:36:40
calling me. What?
1:36:41
How, how do you have that conversation with a parent of
1:36:45
maybe alternatives or I guess alternatives or how do you, how
1:36:49
would you counsel this mythical athlete?
1:36:51
We always make sure that they have a plan in place no matter
1:36:54
what. First we look at the academics,
1:36:55
then, because Illinois academics is really.
1:36:58
Really. Right.
1:36:59
Yeah. It's surprising that you are an
1:37:01
alumni. I'm really kind of shocked.
1:37:04
Is like is really intense so just making sure that they're
1:37:09
there and then let's. Say they have the academics.
1:37:11
For academic scores and test scores, I've been like, now is
1:37:15
the time. Yeah, Coach, I want to go to.
1:37:16
I've been working now. I've seen all these.
1:37:18
My teammate last year signed with Illinois and.
1:37:20
Now you got to, now you got to look at the coaching
1:37:22
philosophies, you know, the chemistry, the team chemistry.
1:37:26
Do you fit in? Will you be able to go in and
1:37:28
have an immediate impact or would it be better for you to
1:37:31
take an alternate route? And if that is, that's OK, Like
1:37:36
maybe that's not the first path. Maybe there's an alternative
1:37:39
path for you to get to Illinois and.
1:37:41
So when you say that, are you traditionally we would say it
1:37:45
out loud like, oh, maybe junior college or something like that,
1:37:48
but you might, you know, not call it non traditionally, but
1:37:50
maybe today's tradition you you might be talking about going
1:37:53
somewhere and transferring. Yeah, to Illinois.
1:37:55
I. Mean the transfer Porter.
1:37:57
You look at it at the basketball level and the football level.
1:37:59
Way now track. And field level it's.
1:38:01
Been do high school coaches generally more positive or
1:38:04
negative towards the transfer portal?
1:38:06
It's generally negative on the college side.
1:38:07
I. Think it's neutral on the high
1:38:09
school side only because it's fairly new with track and field
1:38:12
athletes. You see it so much in football
1:38:14
and basketball, but like track and field, it's just very, very
1:38:17
neutral. But I think now it's going to
1:38:19
start to become a bit of a problem because you see athletes
1:38:22
are being recruited right from the school and.
1:38:25
So what was the football guy who put his name in on Monday and
1:38:28
already had? It was like, he's a stud now and
1:38:31
already had like, a science scholarship.
1:38:33
And, you know, by Monday night or Tuesday morning, it was like,
1:38:36
really, there's no early recruiting there?
1:38:39
That seems a little fishy. And it's.
1:38:41
Crazy so. We just want to prepare our kids
1:38:43
for all of that stuff. Yeah, you just we're we're we're
1:38:46
coming into a new day and age with a name like that's an
1:38:49
image. So it's going to be interesting
1:38:51
in the next couple of years for the NCAA and track and field.
1:38:53
All right. You get the last prediction of
1:38:55
the night. So we're going to be able to
1:38:57
listen to this. We're going to publish this next
1:38:59
December going into the convention for next year.
1:39:01
So what's a prediction that you think is going to happen in
1:39:03
track and field in 2025? It could be Kankakee related.
1:39:07
It could be like, oh, we're going to have this many people
1:39:08
in the roster, or we're going to set the 4x4 school record, or it
1:39:11
could be elite level you. Any prediction?
1:39:14
I just want to be able to call you out and tell you you're
1:39:16
right or wrong. December of 2025.
1:39:18
OK, So this 2025 next year, so I will say due to an injury last
1:39:25
year, Kankakee didn't finish, was not able to defend their
1:39:28
title. I will say Kankakee will be in
1:39:31
your top 10 on the women's side this year for IHSA.
1:39:35
And I will say that Illinois is going to shot some people in the
1:39:42
Big 10 and also in the nationals this year.
1:39:45
Never doubt Petrus. Ever.
1:39:48
I am a believer. Ever.
1:39:50
I'm a believer. Ever.
1:39:51
Coach Petros and Coach Small got some good things going right.
1:39:54
Now agreed. Thank you so much for being
1:39:55
here. Thanks for anchoring us tonight,
1:39:56
man. Thank you.
1:39:57
I get to go eat dinner now. Yes, Sir.
1:39:59
Thank you so much, man. Appreciate you guys, gals.
1:40:02
Thank you so much for being here live on YouTube, live on
1:40:07
Twitter. If you're listening to this at
1:40:09
some point, you're probably listening to in 2025 because
1:40:11
we'll have this on the podcast audio version as well as
1:40:14
rebroadcasting in December of 2025.
1:40:16
I'm just so thankful, so humbled that our guest would be with us
1:40:19
to sit down in the hot seat and talk about this.
1:40:21
If you enjoyed this, please go to our YouTube channel and like
1:40:24
it that way. I know that people are paying
1:40:27
attention and I know to do more of these.
1:40:29
And of course, follow me along on Twitter at Mike Cunningham.
1:40:32
I might have here's a little tip if you're still listening, might
1:40:35
have something else going on live on Twitter tonight.
1:40:38
Check it out. See you guys.
1:40:39
What's? Up.
1:40:52
Brother.