Latest / Why We Do What We Do / Teaching Literacy pt 1

Transcript

Teaching Literacy pt 1 · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why We Do what we Do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we Do. I am your
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: reading host, Abraham, and I am.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Your bookish host Shane.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about all of
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the things that humans and non human animals do, and
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: sometimes we talk about skills that we pick up that
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: we spread throughout our culture, but only kind of recently.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so today we are talking about reading, a
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: thing that I can never remember a time in my
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: life where I couldn't read.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I actually I sort of remember learning to
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: read a little bit. I remember people helping me. Yeah,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: but I don't know what it's like to not be
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: able to read, except when I look at languages I
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: don't understand and then I'm like, oh, that's what it's like.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I've done that a couple of
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: times where I'm like, wait a second, I don't know
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  Speaker 3: what that says.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: What do we do?
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  Speaker 1: It's like it doesn't use the sort of Roman alphabet,
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  Speaker 1: and there's just different symbols. I don't recognize them. I'm like, oh,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: those are just those are just marks on a page.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Now, help help.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But if you're joining us for the first time. Welcome.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you here. I hope that
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: you enjoy what you hear today, and maybe you even
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: came here thinking I would like to learn that stuff,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: and that's great. I hope that that you you walk
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: away with something useful. If you're a returning listener, then
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: welcome back. We're happy that you joined us again. We
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: just we like having listeners. I mean, that's really I
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: think the long and short of that story is we
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: want people listening to us, and so the fact that
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: you're here means we've accomplished some goal.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: It's helpful for the success of the show to have listeners.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, that's that's what they tell us at least, Yeah, yeah,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: that's what I hear.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: So if you end up liking what you hear today
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and you think I would definitely like to support those people,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you can do that by joining us on Patreon, picking
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: up some merch from our merch store, leaving us a
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: rating and review, liking, subscribing, telling a friend, and messaging us,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: doing all kinds of those things. And I'll talk more
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: about that when we're done talking about our stuff today,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: But first I would like to just wish you on
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: this April twenty third, a Happy Administrative Professionals Day. It's
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: also Canada Book Day. Oh that low lignes very nicely
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: with our topic, ajure, I thought so relatedly, it is
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  Speaker 1: English Language Day. I didn't actually do this on purpose.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: It just happens.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: It just happened. Good job us, serendipity. I love that.
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  Speaker 3: It's also Impossible Astronaut Day, okay, which I guess is
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: like it ties into the theme because it's just words.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Is that like an impossible burger but as an astronaut form?
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Could you imagine if we send an apossible burger as
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: an astronaut up? I mean, that's that's better than sending
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Katy Perry up.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: It is International pixel Stained Techno Peasant Day. I don't
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  Speaker 1: know what that means, but that is that is a day.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: So for those of you in the no I guess
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you know, and for the rest of us we just
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: say cap be to day for you, sure?
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I mean?
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  Speaker 3: Or maybe like do we say happy day, Happy International
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Pixel Stained Detective Peasant Day or do we say Mary International.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, because it's you know, it's one of
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  Speaker 2: those things.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: What are the rules?
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  Speaker 3: We don't know the rules for that one. It's also
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Lover's Day. Sure, it's Movie Theater Day, so that's cool.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: It's a National Cherry Cheesecake Day. Love that.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah deal. National Lost Dog Awareness Day. That is important.
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  Speaker 2: Go find them dogs, Go find them dogs. Bring them home,
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  Speaker 2: Please bring them home. It is National Picnic Day.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Oh there's there's a bear out there looking for that
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  Speaker 1: picnic basket.
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  Speaker 2: Best.
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  Speaker 1: It is the slagh a Dragon Day, a slam. We're
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: just be friends with them or like, let them do
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: their own thing.
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  Speaker 2: But that's yeah day is I guess we can call
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: it befriend a Dragon Day.
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  Speaker 1: There.
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  Speaker 2: It is take a chance day. Take a chance on
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  Speaker 2: befriending that dragon.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. Spanish Language Day see.
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  Speaker 3: As well as English Language Day and also talk like
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Shakespeare Day, so just say things that don't make any
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  Speaker 3: sense and then hold skulls.
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  Speaker 1: It's a words day in some capacity, I guess sure.
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  Speaker 1: American Quilters Society Week. Cool, congrats, guys, I'm having a week.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a Chemists celebrate Earth Day. I don't know
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  Speaker 3: if it's like them celebrating the day Earth Day or
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: celebrating Earth today.
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  Speaker 1: Something. Yeah. It is every Kid Healthy Week. It's good
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  Speaker 1: and it's important.
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  Speaker 3: That sounds like it was written by RFK, because that
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: seems like he's what he's trying to say, but also
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: says it in broken English, so like he's saying it
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  Speaker 3: in words that are not making sense together.
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  Speaker 1: But he means the opposite, he means kill them all.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Of course the mantra.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. It's International Mariachi Week,
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  Speaker 2: which is much more cheerful, definitely.
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  Speaker 1: It is National Karaoke Week, which is slightly less cheerful
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  Speaker 1: than Mariachi Week, but more cheerful than anything having to
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: do with RFK, which is a little bit here.
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  Speaker 2: That's true. It's also Holocaust rememberan this week.
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  Speaker 1: Very important, man. You know, we've never comprehensively talked about
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the Holocaust. I suppose we probably should at some point.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: There's a lot to unpack there. We did do that
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: episode just following orders, which maybe is worth the revisit.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: But anyway, those are the holidays. Celebrate them in whatever
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: way you celebrate them. We talk about holidays briefly at
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: the top of this because when we release this podcast,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: it comes out on a calendar date, and that calendar
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: date has things associated with it, and so we say
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: those things because it's fun. But yes, we're actually here
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  Speaker 1: to teach reading. Teaching reading is what I Abraham do,
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  Speaker 1: so I am going to share with you how it's done.
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  Speaker 1: So this is how to teach literacy more or less
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: type episode. And if you're thinking, how are you going
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: to do that in one episode, I would tell you
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  Speaker 1: you're right to be skeptical, because if you really want
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: to do this, well, then go be trained. But I
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  Speaker 1: also will say, like, this will cover like a decent
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  Speaker 1: amount of the groundwork. So maybe take this and go
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  Speaker 1: get trained more comprehensively than what you get from a
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  Speaker 1: single podcast, but this will cover a decent amount.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited because I have I as a reader.
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  Speaker 3: I want to know how I got here.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, some wanted to get you there somehow, Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: And so there's a part of this that's understanding what
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: reading is, and there's a part of this that is
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  Speaker 1: helpful to understand what reading is not. And we're going
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  Speaker 1: to unpack as much as we can in the time
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  Speaker 1: that we have. There's a lot here, so we'll have
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: to go kind of fast. But I think some people
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  Speaker 1: have some maybe misguided ideas about what it means to
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  Speaker 1: read or be literate, and the science of literacy as
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  Speaker 1: it is popularly called today is kind of a nebulous
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  Speaker 1: and even somewhat controversial term, which we might get to
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  Speaker 1: if we have time. But this idea, the science of literacy,
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  Speaker 1: it broadly refers to the body of research that has
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  Speaker 1: investigated methods by which the skill of reading is acquired.
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  Speaker 1: That's and I feel like you get that from the name,
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  Speaker 1: but that's what it is. This often has an emphasis
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  Speaker 1: on efficiency, efficacy, and comprehensiveness. That is what has research
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  Speaker 1: evidence shown to be the most efficient and effective way
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  Speaker 1: to teach people, usually children, how to read and read
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  Speaker 1: in such a way that they're they're reading results in
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  Speaker 1: them being able to understand and use that language to
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  Speaker 1: do stuff with it. Because if you think about it,
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  Speaker 1: reading or recording language into some kind of symbolic form
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  Speaker 1: and text is a way to simply preserve language for
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  Speaker 1: the future, for someone else at some other point in time, Right,
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  Speaker 1: they can continue to revisit that language, and that's really cool,
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  Speaker 1: Like that's a neat thing that we do.
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  Speaker 3: Right, So very generally, we're going to explore what we
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  Speaker 3: just talked about in much more in depth way. We're
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  Speaker 3: going to explore the science of literacy as it emphasizes
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  Speaker 3: phenomic phonemic, beonemic, phonemic.
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  Speaker 2: There we go.
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  Speaker 3: I see, you're teaching me how to read, phonemic awareness, phonics, vocabulary,
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  Speaker 3: oral language, fluency, and comprehension.
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  Speaker 2: So all of those things.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, that is essentially what is embodied in what is
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  Speaker 1: described as the science of literacy is those sort of components.
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  Speaker 1: But even before we start there, it's important to consider,
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  Speaker 1: as I said, what reading is, and as I mentioned,
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  Speaker 1: reading is communicating language through some sort of system, usually
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  Speaker 1: symbolic one. Now we can also preserve language in the
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  Speaker 1: forms of recording now, and that's very cool. This podcast
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  Speaker 1: is an example of that. Yeah, But another way that
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  Speaker 1: we've been doing for far longer is preserving them by
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  Speaker 1: converting words into some kind of symbols, and that's preserved
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  Speaker 1: to be access at some later time, and often mercifully,
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  Speaker 1: it can be duplicated so that it's not just one
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  Speaker 1: person at a time, but there's multiple copies that can
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  Speaker 1: go around and lots of people can have that. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: and consider that before writing, we could only communicate by
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  Speaker 1: doing so in person. That was the only way to
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  Speaker 1: get language from one person to another. But once we
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  Speaker 1: transform those sounds of our language into a symbolic preserved form,
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  Speaker 1: we could send our language across great distances and basically
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  Speaker 1: an infinite amount of time. Someone can speak to us
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  Speaker 1: from fifty thousand years ago in their exact language, using
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  Speaker 1: their exact words, and we would be able to access it.
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  Speaker 1: Although I don't think that there, I mean there there
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  Speaker 1: is some form of symbolic language that lasts that long,
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  Speaker 1: having it been organized into something like text, like just
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  Speaker 1: the invention of punctuation, like a period of comma, just
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  Speaker 1: the invention of spaces between words, just the invention of
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  Speaker 1: a paragraph, just the invention of like organizing text into
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  Speaker 1: a cohesive flow that follows like a direction. Those are
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  Speaker 1: all inventions that had to happen like there's, and they're
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  Speaker 1: somewhat modern. If we look at symbols that date back
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  Speaker 1: long enough that could be preserved, most of those languages
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  Speaker 1: at this point have been long dead, and so it
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: wouldn't really mean anything to us, not directly without any
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: specific translation. But we do try. Like a lot of
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: people who are doing anthropology and other historical type works,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: they're going to be trying to do the best they
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: can to interpret what is what could be interpreted from
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  Speaker 1: that history, But there's going to be a certain amount
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  Speaker 1: of sort of guesswork, if you will. But like, nevertheless,
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  Speaker 1: like that's just a cool thing that happened, and the
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  Speaker 1: fact that that invention has survived so long, I think
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  Speaker 1: just proves how useful it is. Unlike ads. Okay, we're back.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: We've just barely started to scratch the surface of what
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: reading is and we're here. I am telling you, I'm
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: going to teach you how to teach reading. So we'll
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: see how effectively we accomplish that. Maybe this will be
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a two parter. I would save us some time in
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: a way. Yeah, but let's go ahead and dive into
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: well not diving into that yet. We still have to
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: understand the history of reading a little bit. So yeah,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: we'll keep going.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so understanding that written words are just symbols meant
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  Speaker 3: to capture our language and freeze it in time. The
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  Speaker 3: more intuitively like we can access those symbols, the more
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  Speaker 3: effectively and efficiently we can maintain communication with one another.
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  Speaker 3: So basically, we have these symbols, and we have these
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  Speaker 3: symbols that are universal, not universally recognized, but like in
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: a shared verbal community. The symbols are recognized among that community.
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  Speaker 3: We can share that, we can translate that, we can
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  Speaker 3: do a lot of really cool things with it. The
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: only job those symbols have is to convey our words
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  Speaker 3: to one another. Inherently, they have no meaning. The letter M,
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  Speaker 3: the letter G by itself has no meaning until it's organized,
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  Speaker 3: and it does have some meaning when we impart meaning
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  Speaker 3: upon it. So they are abstractions. Words on a page
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  Speaker 3: are just words meant to be read, heard, understood as words.
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  Speaker 1: So whatever gets you there, whatever gets you from I
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  Speaker 1: see symbol, I walk away with language that that person
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  Speaker 1: left for me in the form of symbol. Right, the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: more officially we can do that, the better, because the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: more esoteric and limited and like very specific nuanced rules
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  Speaker 1: you have to use to decode any particular piece. Great
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  Speaker 1: for spies, terrible for us like most of us who
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: are just trying to communicate. And of course we all
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: have to agree on a system of rules for how
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  Speaker 1: we will use those symbols so that one person's collection
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  Speaker 1: of symbols is not wholly unique to them. Like imagine
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  Speaker 1: every single person having their own made up alphabet and
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  Speaker 1: grammar rules that would be utterly pointless, I mean, never
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  Speaker 1: be able to communicate with another person. They may not
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  Speaker 1: even be able to remember it themselves, like we want
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  Speaker 1: to externalize this in the social environment.
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  Speaker 3: So let's jump in here with what with a somewhat
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: controversial stance on reading and writing. Because these symbols are
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: just our language preserved. Letters do not need to have names.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: There is no reason that you would need to call
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: a letter by a name other than the sound that
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: letter is supposed to represent. So that's really the names
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: for letters don't really make any sense.
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  Speaker 2: They don't.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, the point is that I took a sounds
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  Speaker 1: that I made and I put them on a page,
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  Speaker 1: So all they need to do to come off that
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  Speaker 1: page is be sounds again. So don't have to have
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: another way of like, of addressing them other than the
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  Speaker 1: fact than what they're supposed to represent. And even staunch
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: supporters of the science of literacy some of them do
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: agree with that position, but some of them don't necessarily
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: agree with the idea that letters don't need names. And
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: even people I work with don't necessarily agree with me
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: on this, but hear me out. Imagine you're learning some
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: other language, right and you're being told that every symbol
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: could have two different ways of referring to it. You
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: can have a blank for what we call it. Let's
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: just say a name for that thing about or whatever
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: for what we call it, and another rule for the
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: sound that that thing makes. You don't ever need to
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: You don't need to know its name, you don't need
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to know what to call it. Just know it's a
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: thing that happens, right. All you really need is how
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: to lift that in terms of sound, off of the
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  Speaker 1: page back into your mind so that you can then
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: use that information. It's just so confusing and wildly unnecessary
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to have different ways to refer to them when they're
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: only reason to exist. The only one is that they
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: can bring the language back to you having been recorded
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: in the first place. It's like, why make that more confusing.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Letters don't need names, They just need sounds because they
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: represent sounds, right, They don't represent something other than sounds.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: They represent sounds. That's it.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: It's a surrogate. It stands in it is, it stands
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: in for the sound. In fact, at this phenomenon actually
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: has a name. It's acrophony. Acrophony.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I think it's oh, maybe I was thinking a craphenny.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: But now that you've said it acrophony, now I feel
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: like that's right. It's one of them, didn't.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I can read. Listen, y'all, I can. I know I
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: can read.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: We every week we record, I read notes, so I
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: know I can read. But every now and again a
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: word shows up and it's bonkers.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: It's one of the problems, honestly, and this is why
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: we're talking about this here. It's one of the problems
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: with the English language that the letters do not reliably
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: produce sounds. They make different sounds, and so then we're
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: left guessing, sometimes in a word that's unfamiliar, what those
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: sounds are supposed to because the rules are also not consistent.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: But we'll get to that.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we'll get there.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: So acrophony or a crophony or whatever, what do you
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: want to call it as an alphabetic system in which
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: the letters have distinct given names, the Greek alphabet, for example,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: and this seemingly commonly occurs as language evolves from a
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: picture based communication to a more abstract, textual language that
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: usually includes these symbols that we're talking about.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you can imagine why it would go
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: from the place where symbolic communication started, potentially in many cases,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: not always, maybe always, I don't know, I'm not an anthropologist,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: but it started as pictoral, which makes a lot of sense.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Like I can represent a word by drawing its representation.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. Like that almost is
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: as a pretty efficient way to do it. It's just that,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: like I can recombine letters to describe things, but a
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: picture is just represent It's the one thing, you know, Like,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: it's not like we have a single letter that talks
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: about this one type of animal, and that one letter
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  Speaker 1: is the only time you're ever going to see it
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: is in our face animal. That would make that a
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: very useless letter because it would only come up rarely.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: But so as when moving from a more sort of
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: pictorial system to one that can be recombined more easily,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: or just to sort of text in general, you can
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: imagine that like having a name for that symbol made
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of sense because you're referring to a symbol
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: and not necessarily all the words that may have gone
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: around that symbol by itself. But this is an unnecessary practice.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Once we get to the abstraction, that are the squiggles
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: that mean letter sounds, right. Many languages are phonetic or
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: mostly phonetic, meaning that the sounds the letters make and
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: what you call those letters are the same, actually, meaning
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: that words are spelled how they're pronounced. This starts with
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: letter sounds, and actually it's kind of a funny thing that,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: like if you were to sound out a word, that
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: is the same spelling it in a way for languages
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: that are primarily phonics based languages.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Right, So, for example, Spanish speakers don't really have spelling
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: bees because their words are largely spelled exactly like they sound.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: That's one of my favorite things about learning Spanish and
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: why I hated learning French because when I was learning
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Spanish and Spanish, I was like, oh my god, every
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: every letter makes the sound it's supposed to make. When
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: I started studying French, I was like, this is the
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: opposite of that. This is not helpful at all.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: The letters that sometimes make no sounds at all, even
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: though they're yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: There's and there's so many letters that don't make any
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: sounds in this combination. What are we doing here?
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: So for Spanish speaking and like kind of traditional Spanish language,
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: it would be like saying spell B B E, and
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: all you'd say, I have to say is b e
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: but or but e is really what you do. It's
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: basically just sounding out the words, like as an example,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: like I remember learning the alphabet when I was taking Spanish,
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: and it's like ah bee yeah, like they like, it's
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: really like that as you kind of sound it all
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: out except for.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, but like for the most part, it'd
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: be like you know a spell computer and you're like,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: mute Earth. That's how you spell it because those are
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the sounds, and those sounds are the letters, right, which
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. Like that would be so
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: simple if that was, and many languages are that way.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: They work that way, and it's a much faster way
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: to get that language. So to that point, how insanely
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: incomprehensible does your language have to be that your grammar
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: and your spelling are so convoluted and random that you
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: actually hold competitions to see if you can figure out
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: how to write down the words in that language that
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: is maybe native to you and the only one you speak.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: This is maddeningly inefficient from the standpoint of trying to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: communicate to one another. It's like learning a language entirely
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: in code, like, like, what's so funny? It's it's hilarious
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: that a spelling bee would ever need to exist when
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the only purpose of writing words down is so that
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: they can be communicated back again, and you're like, but
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: what if we made it infinitely complicated? Like how about no?
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: And you're like, but what if we did?
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: Though, I'm so glad you brought that up, because it
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: is so funny to think about, like, because the only
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: way you can spell it sometimes is if you know
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: the origin of the word, like, you can't spell it
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: by itself.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: You have to go like, where does this come from?
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Tell me this word, Tell me where it comes from,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: use it in a sentence, give me context, and then
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: I can spell this word.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Otherwise I can't spell this word as it is.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: It's wild all right.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: So defenders of this practice argue that you need letter
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: names to spell, and again we're going to point out that, ay, no,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: you don't, and be other languages don't. So in English,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: if English was a phonetic language, it would not require
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: letter names to spell words. It barely needs them anyway,
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: and only because our spelling rules are such a random
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: hodgepodge of other languages that we do have this in place,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: So we have phonetic alphabet, phonetic spelling examples, Like we
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: could talk about the and they like kind of like
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: spell us out, but like you're gonna have situations where
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: the English language is incredibly complex for no reason at all.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's and like I said, it's it's very inconsistent.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: And if we were to go for like and we
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: sort of gave the example of like spelling B B
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: E spelling computer and then you know, sounding it out,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: if we were to just use the alphabet that way,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: it'd say, like say the alphabet and we did exactly
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: as you said, like our ah book du gu Right, Well,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: like that would work. It would work just fine, because
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: those are the sounds that those letters make. And if
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: we all migrated to a system where we did that,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: we would never miss the fact that we had another
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: way to refer to those letters. Right, it's pointless, you know, right,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: spell anything you simply sounded out and then you have
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: spelled it. And there is no point in having a
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: competition to see if we can figure out the esoteric,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: bizarre rules that are inconsistent and make no sense because
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: we don't need them like that. They're they They slow
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: us down and make us less efficient as communicators. So anyway,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I digress, and there I must invoke ads. Okay, well
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: we're back. We still have not gotten into the actual
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: uh how you teach? So I'm I'm less and less
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: convinced we'll be able to get all the way through.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: That's okay, Well, the amount of time I set aside, Yeah,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: it's but it's fine. I think it's important to understand,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: like why the fact that it's so hard to teach
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: reading in English is in part because of how complex
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and random and arbitrary and inconsistent our rules are. It's
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: not the only thing. I mean, being able to look at,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: scan and decode any kind of text and get language
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: from it will require a decent amount of training and
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: practice and like coaching and guidance and repeated opportunities to
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: work through it. And there's gonna be words that you
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily recognize or know, like tho'se voke have. There's
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: a lot more to reading than just decoding, but we
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: have made it much more complicated than it needs to
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: be in there, for it is something we do have
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: to in fact teach.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: Right, So kind of like diving back into this, like
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: English does have letter names for better, for worse, not
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: for better. It's needlessly confusing. It's really for worse and
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: their letter sounds. But if you are teaching reading, you
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: only need sounds for the vast majority of reading that
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: is called phonics. And if you are from our generation,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: you might be hooked on them, and so you might
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: have gone to Dare to get out of being hooked
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: from phonics. So could you imagine if Dare addressed that,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Like we were hooked on marijuana and heroin and also phonics.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And we had to get we had to get treatment
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: for that. Fun What a funny thing to think about.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Like I never thought about that either, But like idioms
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: like that, and like just weird phrases, a turner phrase,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: like you're hooked on phonics, yeah, but also you're hooked
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: on drugs. And there's just we can't be we can't both,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: you can't be read, yeah, exactly, So here we are.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I also remember I don't know if you remember this,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: but do you remember.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Those I can't remember what it was, but it was
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: like the videos where you learned another language, but it
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: had like a hairy monster. No, and it would be
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: like it would be like a big it was like
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: the big hairy monster. And I can't remember what it was,
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: but it was like it would say like on the
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: on the video they would go ze way I mov
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: like they would like say the French thing, and like
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: you you repeated it over and over again. I will
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: find it after I finished my monster and Owl and
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: was the was a dual lingo. It might have evolved
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: in a dual lingo, but I think it was like
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: a swamp monster. It was like a French swamp monster
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: that taught you French.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: It was weird.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Anyway I might have it might be a fever dream
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: I had. I had something flew a couple of times
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: when I was a kid.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: It's definitely not though.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: Okay, So anyway, sounds are what we need for the
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: vast majority of reading. This is called phonics. You can
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: teach a child or anyone to read fluently with only
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: letter sounds and all of the rule exceptions, so basically
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: you can. It's nice and simple if we approach it
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: this way.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So there are twenty six letters and the English alphabet.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: All of them have sounds. Some of them have multiple sounds,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: so there are more than twenty six sounds that you'll
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: hear in then you would get from all the letters
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: in the English alphabet. And so they recombine them to
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: create different combinations of sounds that you might hear that
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the phonemes or what or what they're called. Some of
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: them make sense in the sense that like, we do
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: have those sounds, so we need a way to depict them,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: although why they would make those sounds doesn't really make sense,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Like if you're referencing, I think Gaelic bh makes a sound,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and that to a lot of English speakers would be
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: like why. But then I'm like, why would a pH
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: make a sound? Why would a thh make a sound?
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: They have nothing in common with either of those letters,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: but those are that's what happens. So it's just a
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: thing that has happened, and it it would be I
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: think more useful if we just had letters that represented
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: those unique sounds, Like we just need a letter that says,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and a letter that says, and a letter that says
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: and a letter that says. Well, those are most of them, but.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: So anymore we need more letters and less names.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: We need more letters, We need less names, and we
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: can also get rid of a few, like we don't
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: really need the letter X, Like, anytime you hear the
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: letter X, it's either going to make the same sound
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: as a K followed by an S, or it's going
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: to make the same sound as a ZS, So like
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: we don't need it. And there's a few letters that
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: are kind of like that, Like we don't actually need
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the letter C. The letter C either makes which we
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: have a K for or it makes us which we
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: have an S four, So we could get rid of
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: that letter as well. Says like a couple instances of
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But we're not espousing the revamp
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: of the English Alphabet Manifesto right now. We're just sort
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of talking about the fact that there are all these rules.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: So anyway, talking about like teaching reading, one of the
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: things interesting here is that fluency in literacy is one
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: of the few things that most people agree on and
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: understand is important. Fluency is actually important for all the
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: things that you're learning. But at least this is not
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: a controversial stance in literacy. People have more or less
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: accepted that that's the case, which is good because that
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: is true. One of the things we're going to be
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: talking about. Here is an approach that emphasizes achieving fluency
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: in perform rmans as it relates to decoding words and
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: reading phonemes and sounds.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Right, So here is a way to do this, arguably
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: the way, but others are going to disagree. Oh, by
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: the way, before I go too much further than this,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: the question I was trying to answer before about the
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: French swamp monster that taught you French and different languages
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: for kids in the nineties. His name was Muzzy and
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: so there was a series of videos and it was
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: an early language program that does exist.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: And he is a green swamp monster with red eyes.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: He is horrifying looking.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: So I don't remember this.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: You're welcome nineties kids.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: You'll remember this when you hear the commercial anyway, And
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: that's the commercial where they go, yes, that's French they're speaking.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Nope, no memory of this.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: I bet you will if you watch it. I bet
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: you're gonna go, oh, I forgot about this. So here's
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: how you teach reading. Okay, here's how you do this,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: arguably the way, but others are just good to disagree,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: and this is going to get your learner reading and
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: not hating to read. This is basically how dyslexia instruction
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: is organized by the way, So like, if you're interested
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: in that, we've got that that discovers that as well.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: But it doesn't work because because it is good for dyslexia.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: It works because it is a good way to teach reading.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Period.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, the people who have engineered and put together
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: like good instruction that supports dyslexia, Like it's not that
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: they're doing anything special other than using good practice, Like
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: they're just like, and you could teach anybody and everybody
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: to learn to read that way, and it is a
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: better way to teach people who have dyslexia, because the
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: other way that they try and teach people to read
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: is asinine and makes no sense, right, and like it's
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: amazing that anyone ever leaves that system having learned to read.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: So like, it's just it's not that it's unique to
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: like dyslexia, it's that it's the better way to teach
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: people how to read, although it would be even better
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: if it had that emphasis on reading fluency. But again
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I digress. So, as we mentioned, to teach literacy first,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: you teach letter sounds. You can break the alphabet into
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: chunks and you can teach those and practice those, or
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: you can teach vowels separately from consonants, or you can
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: try putting all the letters together. There's kind of not
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: necessarily a prescribed way it has to go. The point
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: is that you're your student, your learner, your pupil, whoever
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: it is you're teaching. They learn to recognize the sounds
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: that those letters make. And for really early learners, I
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: do suggest introducing very small groups of letters at a
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: time so that they have an opportunity to learn those.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Then you can move on to the next group and
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: just get them used to looking at a letter producing
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: a sound. For the sake of avoiding confusion, at this stage,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: all sounds should be consistent at first. Okay, we'll introduce
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: those exceptions later, but to start, you gotta have them consistent.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: That means for now, G is only going to make
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: its hard G sound. See will only make it hard sound.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: We're not going to introduce any of the consonant diagraphs
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: right away. Those are like the thch shch. We don't
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: need those right now. That's just confusing. We will get
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: there eventually, so don't even include those in this part
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: of it. And further, at first, vowels will only make
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: one sound, So at first what you want to start
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: with is the most consistent short vowel sound that they make,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the short sound that you will they will encounter them
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: most often. And to remember this, like what sounds the
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: different vowels make. Just imagine a B in front of
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: every vowel and a T after every vowel, and those
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: are the sounds the short vowels make that are their
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: most common. So you have as a think of and
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: at the end of bat, e is a bet, I
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: is eh bit o is ah bot, and you as
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: a butt. So you just put those letters in front
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: of them. And you can do the same thing with
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: P and T as well. I'll work pretty well. But
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: that's a way to remember what those short vowel sounds
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: are is to just put a B and T in
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: front of them. I'm not suggesting that's how you teach
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: it to kids, but in terms of putting the letters there.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: But if you are working on teaching the isolated vowel
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: sounds so you can remember how to coach them through it,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: you can put those letters there for yourself. But I
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: would have them practice just the vowel sounds by themselves
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: so that you get again, you get used to practicing
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the sound the letter makes in the presence of that
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: sound when they're looking at it.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: Right now, learning the alphabet doesn't really matter right now
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: on this point too, but it will be important to
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: take note of any letters the learner struggles to remember,
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: because we'll talk about kind of like what to do
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: with that as we go.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: You have to know where people are struggling.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the order of the alphabet can be useful
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: at some point, but is not necessarily critical. That being said,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of expectations are that they can recite the
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: entire alphabet. Knowing a specific order is helpful for remembering
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: that recitation so you can get there. But again, that
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: does imply needing letter names, and we don't really need
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: those right now. So you could introduce it. Some people
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: think so, some people disagree, but I think you can.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: You can also come back to that as you have
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: introduced more and more exceptions to the rules and all
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Okay, so you're practicing these letter sounds,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: you're probably going to introduce them in chunks. You could
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: introduce them all the same time.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Time.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: However you do it, put them in a randomized array
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: so they're all shuffled around, and just have the students
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: practice reading those sounds fluently. And essentially what you want
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: to do here is you want to have them have
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the opportunity and like sometimed opportunity or whatever, to look
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: at the sounds and not just memorize the order that
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: they're in. We don't want them to just ignore the
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: letters and remember regurgitating a certain order. That's why we
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: have them shuffled. We want them to look at each
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: letter and provide the sounds that it makes. You want
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: to get up to be able to do that at
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: about one hundred or eighty per minute at a minimum,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: You don't necessarily need to practice for a full minute
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: at a NonStop high velocity. Thirty seconds is adequate. Just
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: do the conversion, so you're looking at forty to fifty
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: and thirty seconds, which comes out to about eighty to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: one hundred per minute. So that's a good way to
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: practice that you're just looking at and getting those sounds.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Do that for thirty seconds or you know, do it
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: until they've done about thirty or forty and see how
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: long it took you to get there, and either way,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: try and get close to being able to do them
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: many sounds about thirty sive seconds. That will get you
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: to pretty fluent reading so that when you get to
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: decoding that they can quickly and immediately recognize each sound
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: to decode those words.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: So, once the learner has this down, you can start
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: introducing words. So to start, you only use words in
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: which the sounds are consistent with that learner, with what
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: the learner has been practicing. So basically you're not going
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: to start throwing exceptions in just yet. This will be
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: vow consonant words, so VC like in on it at,
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: so just to kind of keep that in mind, and
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: some consonant vowel consonant words or CVC words, which includes
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: cat bit, top run pet right, so like what people
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: often describe as site words, and really like those site
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: words are even more specific because they are more consistent
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: than the standard site word lists.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Right. So yeah, so kind of the opposite in that
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: sense that like what what they often refer to as
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: site words are words that are the exception to these
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: rules that you just have to you just have to
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: be able to recognize because there's not really an easy
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: way to teach a rule to decode it.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: So okay, well, then I take back what I said.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think what you were going for is
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: that that you recognize them immediately and they become like
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: you don't have to sound them out every time because
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: you just see them and you're like, oh, I see
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: that word. But they what people who are like doing
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: literacy instruction refer to site words have to do with
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: words that sort of break the rules.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so sure there you go. Okay, yeah, fair,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Thank you.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you're the expert here and I'm learning,
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: so like this is great, so I love it. All right,
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: So the initial practice should be sounding out the words
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: at it, stuff like that, and go as slow as
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: they need to, but eventually pick up the pace so
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: they are sounding them out fluently as well, because.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: This will eventually start leading to straight decoding.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: And the fluency goal for this is a little bit higher,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: at least one hundred per minute, and we're talking about
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: counting sounds and all that.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, about one hundred pert sounding out words. You could
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: go a little higher, you could go up to one
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: hundred and twenty per minute would be even better. You
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily need to go a lot more than that.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: But again, you're trying to have them eventually put those
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: sounds together to form a word that they're able to
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: decode and recognize right away. So if they're sounding out ah,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: by the time they've gone to the last sound, who
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: knows if they even remember what the first sounds they made,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: or at is so close to cats that you pretty
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: much got it. So again it's not like go as
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: fast as humanly possible. It's about like practice decoding those
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: a nice slope pace until you can go a little
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: bit faster. See if you can get up to that
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: one hundred words per minute, maybe even one hundred and
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: twenty sounding them out that way, and then practice putting
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: them together, because separately another way to work on this
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: just decoding thing at the same time in the lesson,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: but not just at the same time you're decoding them.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: You can have them actually then try reading them without
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: sounding them out. Sure, so like they might look at
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: them and maybe in their head they're sounding them out,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: and maybe they're sort of under their breast sounding them out.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe they're just going to try and look at it
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: and be like I remember sounding that out. It was cat,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: you know, right, whatever it is, like, we want to
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: practice separately having them sound out and then in a
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: separate opportunity for practice, just just look at it and
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: read it. If possible, they can be same words, they
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: can be different words than they practice sounding out. If
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: they're the same, that is just a little bit more
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: scaffolded and structured, So that could be really helpful, but
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: also means you're not necessarily testing how well they apply
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: it to novel words, which is really important. So you know,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: take that into consideration. Having them practice reading different words
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: than they were just sounding out can be really useful because,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: as I said, you can see how they're applying it.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: But again, having them be the same can be really
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: useful because it helps bridge that skill of sound out
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: to recognize the thing you just sounded out. So if
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: you can make that jump, do it. And if you
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: can't because they're struggling to go from sounding out to reading,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: then just have them practice the same set sounding out
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: as they do reading, and then that way they're making
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: that connection a little faster. So, like I said, it's
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: really about what individually is needed to help that student
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: succeed right.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: So like a word that I think of, like when
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: you talk about like sounding something out is ah. So
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: we're still talking about how to teach people to read
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: right and and so far I think this makes sense.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm learning as we go, and this is I
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: think a lot of fun. So while we're doing this,
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: while we are teaching these words, these simple words that
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: we're watching folks kind of start to sound this out
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: and put these words together. It is useful and strongly
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: encouraged to check and even practice the reciprocal presentation. That is,
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: tests that they can identify the letter when hearing the
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: sound if they see an S and correctly make the
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: sound s. Can they also pick out the S when
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: they hear the sound s? Or if you or someone
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: else has already introduced letter names at this point, can
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: they also tell you the letter's name?
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically what I mean, what we mean by
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: that is like if you had a bunch of letters
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: on a sheet and I said, could they identify which
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: one that was right? And that's a reciprocal practice piece
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: is like not only do they see it and they
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: make that sound, but they hear it and they can
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: find that sound right. But if you have at this
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: point taught them letter names, I could just say what
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: letter says, what letter says? They can then tell me directly,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Oh that's a P, that's an ass, whatever it is,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: the sound that was just made. That's just to get
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: the good reciprocal practice, to ensure that they're getting it
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: both auditorially and that they're producing it.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: If that makes sense, Yes, it does make sense. And
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: I would also like to point out, and maybe I'm
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: wrong on this, but the way that I understood what
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: you just said was effectively, we're talking about some form
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: of or some practical application of stimulus equivalents.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, right, is exactly it.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, So for my behavior analyst friends out there who
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: are listening, you might be going, oh, we're talking about
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: symmetry and reflexivity and transitivity. Yes we are, We certainly are.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: That's what Abraham just brought up.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: That is exactly correct. Yes, you're switching up what the
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: stimulus presentation is as it relates to a response topography
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: in just the bidirectional relation. So love thelearning those words around. Okay,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: So the same is true as we mentioned for sounding
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: out words, and that is if they heard a word
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: sounded out, can they put it back together to make
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: up the word? So if they heard the word it,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: can they put that together to make big and further
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: test to see if they can sound out the word
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: that they hear. So if I say sound out net,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: they could say eh, right without that word necessarily being
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: in front of them. And the point is just again
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: going back and forth. Can you translate that skill into
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: a different version of it? Can you sound out a
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: word that you hear? Can you put together a broken
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: up word into a single word and follow the logic
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: of that sequence. Because one thing that can be very
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: revealing for learners who might be struggling at some point
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: along the spectrum of this is if they can sound
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: it out, but they can't put it back together if
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: they hear it, or if they put it back in
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: the wrong order. And so that tells you, like, oh,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: we might have an issue here, whether unable they're not
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: necessarily following the sequence correctly. We need to like introduce
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: this lightly differently.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: Right, So in FYI like to say, everybody knows fluency
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: is more difficult to gauge when they have to wait
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: to hear the words or sounds. Like what we should
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: look for is a look for a lack of hesitation
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: in there responding. Right, So if you can present sounds
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: at a good pace, they should be able to identify
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: the letter from the herd sound at around fifty fifty
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: or so sounds.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Per minute or roughly around that. Work around that area.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if it's a little less cool, if it's a
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: little more great. But it's like if I present whatever
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that they can pretty quickly without hesitating, give me what
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: you know, find or tell me what that letter is
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: that I just made the sound for. That's a good
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: pace to be able to do that. Again, fluency is
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: very important, and that's a way to set sort of
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: a benchmark of like, are you about at that rate
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: or is it? I say, but and you like take
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: three minutes to figure out what sound I just made?
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: And if so, that's it? That is a that is
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: too slow to be effective.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly, all right.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: So this is the point here where some people who
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: were with me up to this point might start to
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: diverge from my thoughts on this. But here's what I recommend.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I recommend teaching consonant combinations next. And for now we're
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: only using constant combinations in which all the letter sounds
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: are heard. So, for example, in the word blend, you
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: have two sets of contents who are next to each other.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: You have bah and uhl next to each other, and
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: then and next to each other. Okay, so at that
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: point we have not asked the students to do this,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: but all the letter sounds are heard exactly as they
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: have been practicing, or they'll hear them exactly they've been
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: practicing because they make the exact same sounds. Nothing about
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: them has changed. They just are now clumped together in
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: new phonemes. Okay, So when they see blend, they could
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: the word blend, they could say bowl eh, and they
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: could segment it into those phonemic chunks. And just like
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: with short vowel, practice the words we talked about with
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: short vowels, practice sounding those out in that way, so
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: they sound out the words and then also practice reading
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: the words. That's the way I would recommend introducing this.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: That gets you a lot of words, a lot of
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: words where you have consonant blends, that explodes like what
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: they're as accessible to them being able to sound them out,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: and it's a pretty short leap from being able to
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: just sound out short veowl words to being able to
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: sound out short voel words that have these consonant blends
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: in them because it's just an extra sound, that's it.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: But all the sounds are still the same and they've
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: been practicing them. So like in the word cast for example,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: very similar to cat, you just also know have us
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: at the beginning in the middle, and so they see it.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: They can still sound it out ass because nothing else
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: has changed about what those letters say, right right. That's
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: why I prefer to introduce this as the next step.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Personally, Well, I think it makes sense because you're talking
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: about at the same time, like the thin I think
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: the thing that sticks out to me here is that
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: you're teaching these sounds, but the big thing you're teaching
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: is the consistency part of it, Like so very much easy.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: It's easy to blend stuff together when the sounds themselves
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: are so consistent that you're just adding You're just it's
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: a it's a new layer versus like teaching the exceptions
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: or like the can like the variations of this, right,
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: So I think that that's something that like at this stage,
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: it makes sense to start adding stuff like that because
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: those sounds are still consistent and we've already got those sounds.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: In the repertoire exactly, and then that and that is
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: why specifically I personally advocate for going that direction. And
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I guess I'll tell you, like, I wasn't even necessarily
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and I was going to share this because I was like,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: you don't even need to know a lot of people
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: like to introduce the long vowel magic e rule right
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: after at the same time that they introduced the short
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: vowel rule. And what I mean by that is like,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: let's let's say, for example, the word pin. That's a nice, easy,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: short vowel word. It says I right, right. If we
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: add an E to the end of it, it now
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: becomes pine. We don't say the e, and we've now
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: changed what the vowel says, right. So we're adding a
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: couple of new rules to the repertoire of students who
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: are just barely figuring out that they can put letters
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: to all together at all to make new sounds. And
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: we have what's now called a conditional discrimination, meaning that
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: you now have to look over here at the end
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: of the word and then go back to the middle
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: of the word as you're reading and recognize that now
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: that says something different, and the thing that it says
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: different is now it makes what's called its long sound,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: where the sound that it makes is also the name
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: that we call it, which is true only of vowels
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: and only in this specific context. There's one other condition
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: where it's like that, but it's a little bit different,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: and so some people like to teach that right away.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like, let's just go with the fact that, like,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: at this point they have letter sounds, celebrate that, use
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: that to our advantage as far as we possibly can,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: and then we can get to this weird exception rule
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: that shouldn't make any sense at all and shouldn't even
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: exist in our language, but nevertheless does. And the thing
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: is a lot of the expectations of very early readers
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: are that they can do that that switch very early on,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and I think that is a mistake, a colossal, ill
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: informed mistake that we should not be doing. But nevertheless,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: some people will think, well, that's what's going to be
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: expected of them, So that's how I'm going to teach it.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: And I'd say, like, that could be fine. Some students
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: pick that up right away and they have no problems
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: with it. More often than not in my experience, And
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: granted I'm mostly working with students who need remedial support anyway,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: So like I'm not saying this is all students, it's
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: very likely probably a small population portion of them. But
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: that is a very tricky conditional discrimination to learn because
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense and it doesn't even always work.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Like I'll give you, for example, the word give, That
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: word has right. It breaks so many rules. I mean,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: it breaks two rules basically in most circumstances, G followed
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: by an I makes the G soft. It says it's
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: just sound right, like in the word ginger, for example, yeah,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: or origin or whatever. Most examples you can come up with.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Most of the time, when there's an E at the
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: end of the word, they'll learn that that means that
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: it's a long vowel sound, which means in the word
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: give it should it should make it sound I, which
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: means that if we've taught them phonetic rules up to
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: this point that represent the vast majority of rules that
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: they'll see, they would sound that word out as jive,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: which of course is not not what that word says.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: So it's like it messes up all kinds of things
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm sort of like, we don't need to be
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: going into the realm of exceptions just yet. Let's get
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: as far as we can with the simple set of
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: rules that they've learned well, and we're not.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Even gonna unpack live and live right now.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a whole world of the homophones, homographs and
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: homonyms that make it even more confusing and difficult. And
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: that is English for you. Okay, we've covered I mean,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of rules. I'm going to teach you
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: most of them, at least the basic phonetic phonemic awareness
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: type of rules. But we are like halfway through our content.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: So let's do you everyone a favor and split this
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: into two pieces. We can end this discussion now and
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: then we'll come back and teach you the rest of
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: the ways to teach literacy afterward. And that makes sense
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: to me, And so I think that sounds that sounds
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: like the plan.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels good, It feels good.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, of course that means that we should
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: probably take a quick break for ads. Okay, So we,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: as I said, are going to split this up, but
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that we're not going to recommend things.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: We're still going to recommend things obviously, like that's what
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: people are here for, you know. Really, when they were
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: looking for a podcast to listen to, they're like, I
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: want to hear two randoms tell me randomly about random
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: things that they like, so that I can go check
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: those things out. Of course, that's how they found us.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: And when we buried the lead, we put it all
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: the way at the end here, and I'm going to
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: bury it even further because first what I'm going to
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: do is get through some credits that you all need
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: to hear and understand, which is that I cannot make
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: this podcast without a team of awesome people, and I
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: really appreciate their help writing in fact checking come from
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Shane and myself, So thank you so much for recording
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: with me today, Shane. Of course we need listeners, so
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: thank you very much. Listeners and many listeners who are
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: out there. They have gone on to be a part
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: of the Cool Kids Club that helps us be a show,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: which is on Patreon. In a Patreon in case you
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: don't know, is a place where you can essentially go
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: make a commitment to regular donations functionally, and in doing
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: so you get some extra behind the scenes content. You
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: can actually go there and make a single one time.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: You're like, I don't want to do this every month,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: but like, here's twenty bucks just because I love you,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, thanks, that's really wonderful, and I will
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: still say thank you.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: But one of the things that will happen is that
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: you might get you will get. You'll get early episodes
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: or some behind the scenes content. I know for all
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: my patron supporters who are maybe a little frustrated with me,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: I am behind on all the content. I will get
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: caught up very soon, but you will definitely get early releases.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: And the other thing that will happen that maybe is
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: actually the reason that most people are patrons I don't know,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: is that I will say your name and a big
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: heartfelt thank you because it really really really appreciate everyone
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: being here who helps us. And so big thanks to Mike,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: m Meghan, Mike T, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian Ashley,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: and Kiara. Thank you so much.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Just yes all the time, y'all are the best forever.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Yes. Indeed, I started talking about my team and then
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I skipped to talking about to patrons, and I have
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: more on my team, which is that our social media
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: coordinator is Emma Wilson, and the person who makes all
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: the sound good is Justin, who is very good at
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: his job and makes it listenable in some version because
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: if you heard it without the editing, and I do
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: make that available to patrons, not as a punishment, although
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: you might think it was, you can hear what it
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: sounds like before Justin has laid the magic touch on it. Nevertheless,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: those are the things I have to say about that
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: group of people. Other ways that you can support us
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: if you want. We do have a merch store. We
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: sell all kinds of goodies over there, hats, beanies, mugs, shirts,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: I don't remember, stickers, things like that. You can contact
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: us if you want to tell us your thoughts on
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: littere and you want to agree vociferously, then you may
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: email us directly info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. I do
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: accept constructive criticism, but I also am a hardliner on science,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: so yes, I don't tend to stray away from things
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: that are objectively true. There's that anyway. You can also
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: reach us on the social media platforms at Activum Blue Sky.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: We also are still present on Facebook for some amount
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: of time that may have an expiration date. Those are
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: the ways that you can reach us. Leaving us a
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: rating and review helps you can go click those five stars. Right,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: what a great podcast, all those sorts of things, And
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: we really appreciate all the efforts that you'd put there.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Am I missing anything here on that?
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: No? I think you think you got it covered all.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Right, I do. I almost forgot. We got a nice
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: It wasn't exactly an email. We got a nice comment
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: on an episode I wanted to share. Okay, this is
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: a comment from someone named Brock. This was in reference
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: to our Unhoused episodes that we did. It was specifical
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: on episode part two, but it may have been in
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: reference to both. And he said, from personal experience continuing
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: to live in my car since January twenty twenty four
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: in Texas, it was out of choice because I had
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: a bitter experience nearly getting evicted over a lease agreement error.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: It makes me more unhappy that thirty percent of income
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: toward rent likened to went down the drain. There are
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: moments I wish a secure place in privacy, but overall
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: happy and grateful, So I think you know, essentially speaking
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: to the fact that we said, nobody's really choosing this,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: and I think he's saying I did, but also kind
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: of out of necessity. And I think I'm very happy
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: to hear that that he's happy and grateful. That's great,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: a really good, very healthy perspective to have on that.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: I hope that that's a lot of people's experience, and
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: I hope that he's able to stay safe. Thank you
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: for listening, Brock, Yeah, thank you for training in.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, So through that, let's now get to our actual recommendations.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, let's do it.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: Recommen So I'm gonna recommend an album. It just came
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: out last week. It came out on a record label
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: called jag Jaguar, which is really funly named for a
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: record label. Yeah, And it's the newest release from the
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: solo artist Bonnie Ver. If you're familiar with his work,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: like super interesting stuff, like really fascinating like approaches to music.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: This is his fifth studio album. It's called Sable Fable
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: and it's really cool because it's a combination of an
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: EP and a full length where the EP and the
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: full length they're just like closely tied together. There's like
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: some cool story and some cool theming around it. Sable
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: is a much more quiet version of it, and it
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: opens the kind of the album, and then Fable is
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: a little bit louder and a little bit more emotional,
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: I think, in a different way. So it's a really
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: cool release, and it's a little bit more stripped down
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: than some of his other weirder, noisier, strange like experimental releases.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: But I really love it. I think it's I haven't
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: stopped listening to it since it came out. So if
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: you like Justin Vernon, who is Bonniever, who does a
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: lot of really cool, interesting, just really creative stuff with music,
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: it's a really it's a really great listen.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, I've always thought I've only listened to a little
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: bit of Boniever. I think I would put this in
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: a category of like indie and very easy listening, if
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: that makes sense.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well so early I think early, yes,
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: and then it gets real experimental, and I think this
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: is a combination of those two, Like I think the
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: I think twenty two million and II, which were like
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: the last two fall lengths he put out, are really
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: bizarre but fun nice. He also had a real a
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: strange stint where he uh worked a little bit with
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: Kanye West, so I think that probably made him kind
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: of relook at everything and go, I don't want to
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: do this anymore.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: And so he's doing some cool things. So he's I mean,
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: he's on a lot of stuff.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: So it's just he's done a lot of collaborations, which
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: is really cool, some Taylor Swift collaborations which are really cool.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: He's done just a lot of really neat things. But
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: this record is like a nice mix between all of it.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: All right, cool, yeah, all right, Bonniever sable fable music. Yes,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I like, all right. I'm recommending a film. I don't
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: remember when this came out a couple of years ago,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: I think maybe more than that. It's called Metal Lords
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Metal M E.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: T A L.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: It is a sort of coming of age, sort of
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: buddy film, loosely comedy, I guess, with some drama in there.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: It's about two kids who are trying to start a
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: metal band in high school. And again, this is growing
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: up happening, and it's just a fun time. It's like,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of them talking about metal
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: and learning metal and playing their instruments and stuff like that,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: and it's it's just a sort of lighthearted movie. And
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: even if you don't really care for metal, I think
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: it's not really it's not really like heavy super heavy metal.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: I mean it's a lot of classic metal type stuff.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of that sort of thing. I will
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: say for anybody who's sensitive to explicit language, there is
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: quite a bit. The band's name in it is Sculpture Great,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: so I love that for Yeah. So anyway, but it's
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: really fun and it's I think I think one of
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: the main characters is he's on something. I think it
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: was Stranger Things. It's possible it was. It was he
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: was one of those kids.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: He was stuttering bill and.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: It okay, got it cool? All right, thank you. So anyway,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: fun movie. I recommend it. It's also not super long,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: easy watch, and it's on I think it's a Netflix original,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: so it's it's you should be able to find it there.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's so great.
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: It's been on my list, but I haven't had a
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: chance to watch it, so I'm glad to hear it's good.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's fun. It won't you know, change your
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: world or anything, but it's I think just enjoyable, you know.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: The time to sit and watch, so yeah, for sure,
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: all right, those are recommending Metal Lords the movie on
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Netflix and Bonnie ver Sable Fable album. And we're going
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: to come back next time with a part two on
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: teaching literacy beautiful. I love it or parts do in
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: French as they say, yeah, but.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: We're not doing that right now too. We're not ready
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: for We're not ready for that stuff.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: You're right, you're right, all right. As I said, thank
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: you all for listening, Thank you, thank you for recording
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: with me today. Shane, is there anything that you would
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: like out of that I forgot before? We sayah, goodbyes
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: and catch everybody next week.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Uh no, this feels good.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Peace out everyone. This is Abraham, this is Shane. We're out.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Ye.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: You've been listening to Why We Do What We Do.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening, and
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: we hope you have an awesome day