Latest / Left of the Projector / The Prestige (2006) with Alexa Speed (Cut Off the Spigot)

Transcript

The Prestige (2006) with Alexa Speed (Cut Off the Spigot) · Left of the Projector

• 0:00
  Track 2: Every podcast consists of three parts, or acts. The first part is called The Pledge.
• 0:06
  Track 2: That's where I tell you that this week, on Left of the Projector,
• 0:10
  Track 2: we are dipping into the filmography of Christopher Nolan, with his 2006 film, The Prestige.
• 0:16
  Track 2: That's the ordinary part of this episode. The second act is called The Turn.
• 0:21
  Track 2: That's where I tell you all the amazing actors in this film,
• 0:24
  Track 2: including the late, great David Bowie, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale,
• 0:28
  Track 2: Michael Caine, Scarlett Johansson, Rebecca Hall, and Andy Serkis.
• 0:32
  Track 2: This is where we take the ordinary and tell you we are going to do something extraordinary.
• 0:38
  Track 2: We have Alexa Speed as our guest today, whom you may know from her page Cut Off the Spigot.
• 0:43
  Track 2: And now, though, we have to deliver the third act, the hardest part,
• 0:49
  Track 2: the part we call the prestige.
• 0:53
  Track 2: Sit back in your seats, get something to eat, and watch this movie. We don't want to kiss you.
• 1:03
  Track 2: Video. Thank you.
• 1:07
  Track 2: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,
• 1:10
  Track 2: you can go to Patreon forward slash Left of the Projector Pod.
• 1:14
  Track 2: If you'd like to dress in style, we've got shirts.
• 1:17
  Track 2: And at leftoftheprojectorpod.threadless.com, you can grab one and show everyone
• 1:21
  Track 2: you've got the best taste around.
• 1:23
  Track 2: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe so you'll be notified
• 1:26
  Track 2: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday.
• 1:28
  Track 2: And now on to the show. Welcome to the show, Alexa.
• 1:31
  Track 1: Speed from Cut Off the Spigot. Basically, I go category by category to find
• 1:35
  Track 1: alternatives to badly behaving companies, big corporations, and private equity firms.
• 1:41
  Track 1: That's pretty awesome. That's an awesome resource, especially,
• 1:44
  Track 1: you know, I mean, it feels like a challenge just to live in this world nowadays
• 1:49
  Track 1: and try to make, you know, good ethical choices.
• 1:52
  Track 1: I mean, there is no, you know, ethical consumption under capitalism,
• 1:55
  Track 1: but, you know, we try to do our best, you know, and honestly,
• 1:58
  Track 1: that's an incredible resource.
• 1:59
  Track 1: So, you know, thank you for everybody. I'm thanking you for everybody. No, I appreciate that.
• 2:05
  Track 1: Oh, and I think I was saying in our emails back and forth, when I go to your
• 2:08
  Track 1: page and you can see how many people you know that follow someone else,
• 2:11
  Track 1: a very low number of people that I follow also follow your page.
• 2:15
  Track 1: So if you are listening, you should check it out. And what are some of the ones
• 2:19
  Track 1: you've done recently that people might be able to check out?
• 2:22
  Track 1: Yeah, so I have a video that's kind of a good summary of brands to boycott because
• 2:29
  Track 1: they collaborate with ICE in some form or another.
• 2:32
  Track 1: And then the alternatives to those companies. And then I did a specific one
• 2:37
  Track 1: on AT&T alternatives because they have a huge, I think it's $83 million contract with ICE.
• 2:44
  Track 1: So if you're looking for ice boycott alternatives, definitely check out my page.
• 2:48
  Track 1: Another kind of big series I did was Spotify Alternatives. So that has six parts.
• 2:54
  Track 1: So if you listen to podcasts or audiobooks or want a free version,
• 2:58
  Track 1: any of that, I've got you covered.
• 3:00
  Track 1: That is how I found your page, actually, was Spotify. And actually led me to cancel Spotify.
• 3:05
  Track 1: Wow. So, you know, it's, yeah, so...
• 3:10
  Track 1: Yeah, no, it's pretty cool. It's actually doing that series.
• 3:14
  Track 1: I switched to Kobuz, which is my preferred alternative, at least if you're going
• 3:19
  Track 1: to get a paid subscription.
• 3:21
  Track 1: But there were so many cool things that I found through that, too.
• 3:24
  Track 1: Radio Paradise, which is free, basically a free radio streaming app, but you can skip tracks.
• 3:30
  Track 1: That's fun. I mean, also, as we advocate in the show, anyone should have a library
• 3:34
  Track 1: card to their local library.
• 3:36
  Track 1: You'd be amazed how many video movies you can watch through.
• 3:39
  Track 1: New York doesn't have Canopy, but many places do. And so you can get.
• 3:45
  Track 1: Use your local library or my wife will divorce me for not plugging the library. She is a librarian.
• 3:52
  Track 1: Go to the library. She will yell at me.
• 3:56
  Track 1: Yes, everyone should go to the library. But so we are talking about The Prestige.
• 4:02
  Track 1: And so as I usually do, I send a list of a number of films. And I know,
• 4:05
  Track 1: Alexa, you had picked a few of them from the list. We kind of were narrowing it down.
• 4:08
  Track 1: But what is your maybe relationship with The Prestige or history with it,
• 4:14
  Track 1: having watched it in the past?
• 4:15
  Track 1: As we said, it came out in 2006. So it's been out for almost, well, I guess 20 years.
• 4:20
  Track 1: So I'm curious what your overall history with it is.
• 4:24
  Track 1: Yeah so when it first came out i'm pretty sure i saw it with my dad in the theater,
• 4:30
  Track 1: 2006 i was 17 so it was right around high
• 4:33
  Track 1: school college time and i remember loving it i remembered the twist and and
• 4:40
  Track 1: all that and i thought it was such a great movie but i'm not really a movie
• 4:44
  Track 1: re-watcher once i've seen something unless it's really really good or it's one
• 4:49
  Track 1: of those movies where you can,
• 4:51
  Track 1: I guess the prestige is kind of this, but one of those movies where you can
• 4:54
  Track 1: watch six times and always discover some little new plot detail that you didn't catch the last time.
• 5:00
  Track 1: So I basically really loved it when it came out and then never watched it again.
• 5:07
  Track 1: But I have to say on this rewatch, I was very excited because it was nice to
• 5:13
  Track 1: be sort of refreshed with what happened.
• 5:15
  Track 1: And even though I knew the twist, it was still pretty interesting.
• 5:20
  Track 1: And so and I I don't think I realized when it came out that it was a Christopher Nolan movie.
• 5:25
  Track 1: So it's interesting to see it from that perspective. Now seeing so much of his later work.
• 5:32
  Track 1: Yeah. I think I was having, this is completely an aside, but I think Bill and
• 5:36
  Track 1: I were having a conversation recently about, you know, when people go to the
• 5:40
  Track 1: movie, are they consciously thinking about like, oh, that's the new Christopher Nolan movie?
• 5:44
  Track 1: And I think the average person probably doesn't think about that.
• 5:48
  Track 1: I didn't think about that when this came out.
• 5:49
  Track 1: I didn't know who Christopher Nolan was in 2006. yeah he wasn't
• 5:54
  Track 1: i mean he wasn't he
• 5:57
  Track 1: he was i think he was kind of up and coming because i
• 6:01
  Track 1: mean he did this is after memento and memento was
• 6:04
  Track 1: a big hit and a big that was kind of cult phenomenon the big thing but and i
• 6:12
  Track 1: think christopher nolan is one of the few directors who that even like even
• 6:17
  Track 1: the average person who's not a movie nerd does go oh this is a christopher Nolan
• 6:21
  Track 1: movie. Oh, yeah. Okay. This is Christopher Nolan.
• 6:23
  Track 1: But by and large, I don't think, and I don't think at this time,
• 6:28
  Track 1: outside of people who were in movies, I don't think they were like Christopher.
• 6:31
  Track 1: You forgot about Batman Begins came out before this. Oh, you're right. You're right.
• 6:35
  Track 1: So, yeah. I totally forgot Batman Begins came out before this. Yeah.
• 6:38
  Track 1: So, yeah. I do think at this time, Christopher Nolan was one of those names
• 6:43
  Track 1: that people, yeah, they would be like, oh, it's a.
• 6:51
  Track 1: Batman, like I, I'm a comic fan, like back, you know, and I'm, I was a huge fan.
• 6:57
  Track 1: Like I loved that. Maybe all I love the Nolan Batman trilogy.
• 7:00
  Track 1: And I think this is his by far best movie.
• 7:03
  Track 1: I agree with that, too. Now I feel like I need to go watch all those movies again.
• 7:09
  Track 1: Like, I thought it was good, but now it's like, oh, it's the best. I don't know.
• 7:15
  Track 1: It's probably not a popular opinion, I would say. I actually,
• 7:19
  Track 1: like, I think when we get to the second half, or when we talk about the second half a little bit more,
• 7:25
  Track 1: or I guess I could talk about it now, but, like, the way that the movie is directed,
• 7:31
  Track 1: And it's a lot of different time cuts that you're going through and different places.
• 7:36
  Track 1: And as I was watching it, I was like, this is masterfully executed because it unfolds.
• 7:42
  Track 1: Like, it doesn't feel like you are being jerked around between these different
• 7:47
  Track 1: time periods and locations. It's like, oh, no, it's just like beautifully unfolding.
• 7:52
  Track 1: Yeah. Like, I think that a lot of people look at like some of his other movies
• 7:57
  Track 1: and they're so ambitious and they're so grand in scope.
• 8:02
  Track 1: But, and I, I think that in a lot of ways, this movie is more intimate.
• 8:07
  Track 1: And I think people think that like, they look at like his other movies,
• 8:10
  Track 1: like, oh, it's so, you know, whatever inception, you know, oh,
• 8:13
  Track 1: it's such a, so, you know, it's the dream.
• 8:15
  Track 1: And they, they made the thing and blah, blah, blah, the spinning rooms and all that shit.
• 8:19
  Track 1: Right. But like this, it's like, it's a little more intimate and all the,
• 8:24
  Track 1: like most of his other movies. Yeah.
• 8:27
  Track 1: 90% of it slots together perfectly in the end. But then there's some real just
• 8:30
  Track 1: like, oh, he dropped that ball.
• 8:32
  Track 1: You watch this movie and it's like, oh, there's not, he didn't,
• 8:35
  Track 1: no, nothing was dropped.
• 8:37
  Track 1: It's solid all the way through. It's perfect.
• 8:39
  Track 1: Not a single drop thread, not a single, listen, he walked in one door,
• 8:44
  Track 1: threw that ball, walked through it, caught on the other side.
• 8:46
  Track 1: Done. End of conversation. No, he really did.
• 8:48
  Track 1: Well, and for people who maybe, who's been a while since they've seen it,
• 8:51
  Track 1: just has like a brief context on kind of the overarching or the setup of the film.
• 8:55
  Track 1: It takes place in the 1890s in London, and it's basically about the life of
• 9:00
  Track 1: two different magicians played by Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale.
• 9:04
  Track 1: Hugh Jackman is Robert Angier, and Christian Bale is Alfred Borden.
• 9:11
  Track 1: And they're kind of having this—initially, they're kind of working together
• 9:13
  Track 1: under the same tutelage of, like, Michael Caine, sort of their producer,
• 9:16
  Track 1: I guess you could say, or agent. I don't know what his official title would have been. Manager?
• 9:22
  Track 1: Mentor. I don't think he's not working. They're not working under him.
• 9:26
  Track 1: Michael Caine is working under, they're all working underneath the same guy.
• 9:31
  Track 1: Whoever that first magician is, like the great Alfred or whatever.
• 9:34
  Track 1: I don't fucking remember his name. Right, right, right. Yeah,
• 9:36
  Track 1: I guess the beginning, yeah.
• 9:37
  Track 1: They all just work for him and I think Michael Caine is really more of a back
• 9:42
  Track 1: of the, you know, it's like he's not the showman, but he's a highly respected,
• 9:46
  Track 1: well-known, you know, what they call him. He finds tricks for them to perform.
• 9:51
  Track 1: Right. He's an engineer, an engineer, as they say, which I'm like,
• 9:57
  Track 1: why, why are we putting this French spin on engineer?
• 9:59
  Track 1: But like, you know, he's the engineer, I believe they say it,
• 10:04
  Track 1: how they say it. It's like the imagineer.
• 10:07
  Track 1: Yes. Yes. That's exactly it. They all really just work for one guy and he just
• 10:12
  Track 1: sees, he sees potential in them.
• 10:15
  Track 1: Right. And so, and so, and at the time also, the, as added piece of this is
• 10:20
  Track 1: that Hugh Jackman is married and his wife is sort of one of the assistants and
• 10:24
  Track 1: he's sort of, and she ends up dying during a water tank, you know, extract escape.
• 10:29
  Track 1: And he blames, you know, he blames this on Christian Bale and they basically create a lifelong,
• 10:37
  Track 1: you know, back and forth between them, you know, pursuing their careers,
• 10:41
  Track 1: going after each other, trying to sabotage one another, you know,
• 10:45
  Track 1: being odd at their tricks and then trying to one up them.
• 10:47
  Track 1: So it's this constant struggle between them.
• 10:50
  Track 1: And I don't know. I mean, you said the film has so many different timelines,
• 10:55
  Track 1: Alexa, like it has the present time where the opening is where Christian Bale
• 11:00
  Track 1: is being arrested for murdering Hugh Jackman.
• 11:03
  Track 1: So you start the movie, Hugh Jackman is dead.
• 11:07
  Track 1: Christian Bale is on trial and going to be executed for it.
• 11:09
  Track 1: And then it starts going back and forth into each of them kind of remembering
• 11:15
  Track 1: their past. And it's just.
• 11:18
  Track 1: By reading each other's diaries simultaneously.
• 11:23
  Track 1: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 11:26
  Track 1: I didn't even think about that till you said that, that it's really the diaries
• 11:29
  Track 1: is how we're experiencing them, like the memories.
• 11:32
  Track 1: It's like, to me, it was even that more, much more seamless where I was like,
• 11:35
  Track 1: oh yeah, this is a diary. They're reading the diary. Yeah.
• 11:39
  Track 1: Which I, this, I hadn't thought of this until now. And you think about this
• 11:43
  Track 1: sometimes in films or like a book you read where it's the first person and you're
• 11:47
  Track 1: getting the story from an individual person.
• 11:49
  Track 1: So what happened may not have actually happened that way.
• 11:52
  Track 1: That's sort of the way that one person is telling the story,
• 11:54
  Track 1: but each of them are reading each other's version of the events.
• 11:58
  Track 1: And so like you wonder also is how much of it is accurate.
• 12:01
  Track 1: And it seems like they're, you know, I don't know. You never get the impression
• 12:08
  Track 1: that either of them are like, that's not what I did.
• 12:12
  Track 1: They seem to both have owned up to being complete pieces of shit to each other.
• 12:17
  Track 1: Yeah it's it's
• 12:20
  Track 1: crazy their rivalry just gets to such a point
• 12:23
  Track 1: and in the beginning i feel like at
• 12:26
  Track 1: least for me watching it you're more invested and you're like oh
• 12:29
  Track 1: like who's gonna win they're always one-upping each other and then
• 12:32
  Track 1: by the end it's just like what were
• 12:35
  Track 1: you doing yeah what is
• 12:38
  Track 1: wrong with you point of all this yeah what is
• 12:41
  Track 1: wrong with you people what is your problem and the
• 12:44
  Track 1: the the thing that i think like fits to me at
• 12:47
  Track 1: the beginning when i'm thinking about this kind of as like a leftist perspective
• 12:50
  Track 1: is so well i guess for one i mentioned happens in 1890s london and
• 12:53
  Track 1: for people who may know or not know at that time this is sort
• 12:56
  Track 1: of considered the technical technological revolution or the second industrial
• 13:00
  Track 1: revolution where mass production of things were starting to are starting to
• 13:04
  Track 1: happen and we also see a very distinct class dynamic between the two of them
• 13:08
  Track 1: like christian bale is very clearly poor you know does not come for money Whereas
• 13:13
  Track 1: as we go through the film,
• 13:14
  Track 1: we see that Christian Bale is definitely a man of means as he meets Tesla later in the film.
• 13:19
  Track 1: And he uses a lot of money to, you know, procure a new trick.
• 13:22
  Track 1: Huge action. What did I say?
• 13:25
  Track 1: Christian Bell. Hugh Jackman is the man. Yes, Hugh Jackman, yes.
• 13:29
  Track 1: He is the wealthy one. And so it has like a distinct class dynamic,
• 13:34
  Track 1: which I would imagine would be very important in that era especially.
• 13:39
  Track 1: We do get an allusion to that early on when the wife mentions the name and he
• 13:46
  Track 1: goes you know, that he that he's playing a part.
• 13:50
  Track 1: She says, you are playing a part. And he goes, I'm just using a different name
• 13:55
  Track 1: i promised my family i wouldn't sully our good name with my whatever like my
• 14:00
  Track 1: performances or whatever yeah like you get the hint at the beginning yeah.
• 14:06
  Track 1: And yeah i think i think it's is it pretty early on
• 14:09
  Track 1: in the beginning too when like the mystery lord
• 14:12
  Track 1: visits and like talks to christian bale's character
• 14:16
  Track 1: about how like he's going to be so destitute and his
• 14:19
  Track 1: daughter won't be able to survive and she's going to go to the
• 14:21
  Track 1: workhouse and so like even
• 14:25
  Track 1: though you see later in the film that christian bale's doing okay like
• 14:28
  Track 1: it's still that there's just no so like from a leftist
• 14:31
  Track 1: perspective there's absolutely no social safety net
• 14:34
  Track 1: and it's pretty striking and
• 14:37
  Track 1: off the bat yeah like the the and that's another thing too that you that you
• 14:42
  Track 1: sort of you find out early on he's in prison he has a daughter and then you're
• 14:48
  Track 1: like oh i wonder who his like his wife is and like what how did that happen
• 14:51
  Track 1: and then And they sort of weave that portion into it where it's such a well-crafted,
• 14:57
  Track 1: as we keep saying, is that you don't get a detail and then they sort of tell
• 15:02
  Track 1: you that detail through multiple perspectives at the same time,
• 15:05
  Track 1: which is just, I don't even know how you even make this.
• 15:09
  Track 1: You know, I'm not a filmmaker, so I don't know anything, but this seems very challenging.
• 15:16
  Track 1: Yeah, I feel like it would be, it's like you're writing it from like both the
• 15:22
  Track 1: front end and the back end and the middle and making it all work together.
• 15:27
  Track 1: Yeah, and the thing that also is happening at the same time,
• 15:32
  Track 1: well, part of their feud escalation is they're essentially just keep sabotaging each other's acts.
• 15:38
  Track 1: And so one of the tricks that I think that Borden, who is the Christian Bale's
• 15:42
  Track 1: character, wants to do this bullet catch, which is sort of like you're catching
• 15:47
  Track 1: a bullet, which isn't actually in the gun.
• 15:49
  Track 1: And, you know, it's kind of everything is sort of these sleight of hands.
• 15:52
  Track 1: But then Hugh Jackman shows up and actually shoots him and he loses two of his
• 15:57
  Track 1: fingers, which imagining being a magician and you now have two less fingers
• 16:01
  Track 1: to be able to do all of your things is...
• 16:04
  Track 1: And also just warned him, though. Yeah, she did.
• 16:08
  Track 1: She did warn him. And he literally said, well, if someone crazy comes up, then I'm screwed.
• 16:15
  Track 1: But otherwise, I'll be fine. And then it's like, you have a feud with another magician.
• 16:21
  Track 1: Yeah. What could possibly happen?
• 16:24
  Track 1: It's funny because this movie truly is so well written and directed and the
• 16:32
  Track 1: story unfolds so beautifully.
• 16:34
  Track 1: But sometimes, like, some of the things the characters do, they're such idiots.
• 16:39
  Track 1: Pure ego. There's, like, a very simple way not to do this. It's pure ego.
• 16:43
  Track 1: It's all about ego and hubris.
• 16:47
  Track 1: Like, that's all. This is a huge story of hubris and ego.
• 16:51
  Track 1: Yeah, and obsession. I think for Christian Bale, because he's relatively poor
• 16:57
  Track 1: or, like, you know, fairly low.
• 16:59
  Track 1: Like, when he's first, when he's having an argument with his wife about the
• 17:01
  Track 1: bullet catch, they live in, like, a pretty crummy apartment.
• 17:04
  Track 1: You know in this apartment building and he's essentially each of
• 17:07
  Track 1: them seems to it seems to be this case where once
• 17:10
  Track 1: they have a new trick that's really popular all of a sudden
• 17:12
  Track 1: they start getting you know more tickets and money and then
• 17:15
  Track 1: they all of a sudden he has like a nicer you know it's like a brownstone or
• 17:18
  Track 1: some kind of nicer place because of it and so
• 17:21
  Track 1: he's he's they're both like completely willing to
• 17:24
  Track 1: take any kind of risk to one-up each other
• 17:27
  Track 1: and also just to be the best like they
• 17:29
  Track 1: have no well it's interesting
• 17:32
  Track 1: because they they talk a lot about he jackman's
• 17:36
  Track 1: character like not wanting to get his hands dirty um and whereas with christian
• 17:42
  Track 1: bale's character he is almost forced to get his hands dirty because he doesn't
• 17:46
  Track 1: have the means to like he has to make the trick work because he needs to you
• 17:51
  Track 1: know have a decent living situation and all that like.
• 17:56
  Track 1: This really comes to, I mean, the class dynamic is a huge aspect of this because
• 18:01
  Track 1: really Hugh Jackman's character, Angier, like he doesn't have to sacrifice.
• 18:07
  Track 1: He can fail. This really boils down to the kind of like, to me,
• 18:12
  Track 1: thinking about it more, it really brings to mind the way we live now in this concept of world.
• 18:18
  Track 1: Since the advent of like, you know, the, since the.com era, the.com boom,
• 18:22
  Track 1: and like the advent of computers, how like the tech oligarchy and the tech bros
• 18:27
  Track 1: have just continually been like, you know what?
• 18:30
  Track 1: We can do everything because we can code.
• 18:34
  Track 1: We could do everything. We demand that we get credit for everything. We have AI.
• 18:38
  Track 1: We can make art now. We're artists now. Oh, we can, we can run. We can do this.
• 18:42
  Track 1: We were musicians now because they have the means of the production to basically.
• 18:48
  Track 1: Make a facsimile of such things.
• 18:49
  Track 1: And Danton, or I'm sorry, not Danton. He's not Danton yet.
• 18:53
  Track 1: And Gier is just basically like, you know what? I'm rich. I want to be a magician.
• 18:59
  Track 1: Like, I want to do this. And it's like, man, like, meanwhile,
• 19:03
  Track 1: Christian Bale's like, listen, I got to sell tickets or we're not getting food.
• 19:07
  Track 1: And this guy, he could just, he could pack it up anytime. Go home.
• 19:11
  Track 1: He's fine. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing that's kind of crazy about all of
• 19:15
  Track 1: it is that, and again, it goes back to my frustration of like the whole thing.
• 19:21
  Track 1: Yeah. It's all ego. It's so, it's, it's just this obsession with ego.
• 19:25
  Track 1: And speaking of, like, the tech bros and tech oligarchy, but, like,
• 19:31
  Track 1: I thought, you know, they're using the birds and the trick to make them disappear
• 19:37
  Track 1: and reappear, but the bird dies and they kill it.
• 19:41
  Track 1: And I thought that was such a kind of beautiful analogy for like,
• 19:48
  Track 1: just like tech companies. And it's like, oh, it's all this beautiful stuff. Like it's AI.
• 19:55
  Track 1: It's going to make you magic, you know, pictures and do all your tasks and all these amazing things.
• 20:00
  Track 1: But it's not showing you. It's like, this is all the magic, but it's not showing
• 20:04
  Track 1: you the bird that dies, which is like environmental impacts.
• 20:08
  Track 1: Like the amount of, you know, copyrighted material that they're just using blatantly and all that stuff.
• 20:14
  Track 1: And it's like, I don't know. I just don't look behind the curtain.
• 20:17
  Track 1: Yeah, exactly. Like, and it's just like, oh, we'll just hide it away. Shush.
• 20:21
  Track 1: You know, I mean, I think that's I mean, I don't know how much Nolan was thinking about the idea of just.
• 20:28
  Track 1: You know, as I, as I, maybe we'll get to soon, because when we get to sort of
• 20:31
  Track 1: like the later, as you were kind of talking about sort of the second half of
• 20:34
  Track 1: the film, or even like the last third,
• 20:36
  Track 1: when Tesla comes in, and we have sort of these other components is that all of capitalism,
• 20:44
  Track 1: is an illusion.
• 20:45
  Track 1: This movie, all of it is just one big, as you said, Bill, like,
• 20:49
  Track 1: it's don't peek behind the curtain,
• 20:50
  Track 1: don't see the exploitation of the of, you know,
• 20:53
  Track 1: the global south and all of the things that are letting you
• 20:56
  Track 1: be able to do all these things and at the time the
• 20:59
  Track 1: thing that was like the illusion was oh you know
• 21:02
  Track 1: if i want a new hat i can just go to the store because they can just mass mass
• 21:05
  Track 1: produce hundreds of hats where it used to be someone had
• 21:08
  Track 1: to have an artist would have to actually craft my hat and it
• 21:11
  Track 1: required you know artistry and you know all these
• 21:14
  Track 1: different things and i don't know like even in
• 21:17
  Track 1: some ways beyond that of it's it's sort
• 21:20
  Track 1: of the economy if you think about it we look at gdp and
• 21:23
  Track 1: the stock market and it's like we have the magic of the
• 21:26
  Track 1: stock market always going up and up and up but then we don't see what's happening
• 21:30
  Track 1: behind the scenes which is all the people struggling to even pay like day-to-day
• 21:34
  Track 1: expenses even biden he was like oh the economy's great and it's like what are
• 21:39
  Track 1: you talking about for who yeah for who for who,
• 21:44
  Track 1: and again and again it's the same thing with like you know angers it's like
• 21:48
  Track 1: oh yeah this is all great well yeah because man like,
• 21:51
  Track 1: You can walk away. You're fine.
• 21:55
  Track 1: This is all gravy for you, man. Even his squalid apartment that he lives with
• 22:01
  Track 1: his wife, that was not like, you know, they were living the nice,
• 22:06
  Track 1: they were living the high life.
• 22:07
  Track 1: She also was, you know, they're out there on a bark just doing,
• 22:11
  Track 1: you know, they're pretending to be poor. He loses his wife because he's out there doing this.
• 22:16
  Track 1: He loses something important because he's doing something that he doesn't need to be doing.
• 22:21
  Track 1: At the end of the day. I mean, yes, we realize Christian Bale tied the other
• 22:25
  Track 1: knot he wasn't supposed to do. We don't know that.
• 22:27
  Track 1: We don't know that. I don't know enough about knots to be able to tell,
• 22:31
  Track 1: but she nods to him to be like, yes, please tie that other knot. I can do it.
• 22:38
  Track 1: She was at least in on it, even if they made the wrong decision.
• 22:44
  Track 1: Yeah, and we understand. He's not going to admit to it. I mean,
• 22:47
  Track 1: he, he, you know, he comes to the funeral and he's like, oh,
• 22:49
  Track 1: I don't know which knot I tie like that.
• 22:51
  Track 1: He asked him that constantly, you know, the rest of the film is like,
• 22:54
  Track 1: oh, what knot did you tie?
• 22:55
  Track 1: He's like, oh, I don't, I don't know. I can't remember. And like,
• 22:57
  Track 1: he knows which knot he tied. I feel like you're a magician.
• 22:59
  Track 1: You know, I do. I do think it's funny. And this is to go back.
• 23:03
  Track 1: And this is just about the bullet catch trick.
• 23:08
  Track 1: You would just never put the bullet in the thing at all. There would be no trick ramrod.
• 23:13
  Track 1: You just wouldn't put the bullet in. They just bombed the bullet.
• 23:16
  Track 1: Like you're trained. Like I call it.
• 23:19
  Track 1: It's slight of hand. Like you would just not do that, but you would never be in there at all.
• 23:24
  Track 1: But that's not what happened. What happened was that I know that I'm well aware.
• 23:28
  Track 1: I'm just saying he's like showing.
• 23:30
  Track 1: He's like, this is how we make sure that it's like, no, it's never even be in
• 23:34
  Track 1: it at all. There would be no trick ramrod.
• 23:37
  Track 1: You just, No, no one's no one's doing that fucking psychotic.
• 23:43
  Track 1: No, that wouldn't be what you do. Yeah, that's true.
• 23:47
  Track 1: That's a good point. And like the there was something I was going to mention
• 23:49
  Track 1: about the the classes and stuff, too, but I forgot what it was.
• 23:54
  Track 1: I think I lost it.
• 23:56
  Track 1: I mean, as the like, so I think this is the point in the film where sort of
• 23:59
  Track 1: things become like their their rivalry, like becomes to a new level when Borden
• 24:05
  Track 1: releases a new illusion called the transported man,
• 24:09
  Track 1: where I think you were saying with the ball, he goes into one sort of closet
• 24:15
  Track 1: and he bounces the ball before he does.
• 24:18
  Track 1: And he opens the other closet and he's there again and he picks up the ball
• 24:22
  Track 1: and the trick goes viral as it would be like in 1890 Britain or whatever.
• 24:28
  Track 1: It's like he's selling tickets, people are talking about it.
• 24:31
  Track 1: I mean, they keep saying a lot of times how people are talking about the trick.
• 24:34
  Track 1: Like were people talking about magic tricks in 1890?
• 24:37
  Track 1: I guess you have a lot else to do. Yeah, I mean, I would say because theater
• 24:42
  Track 1: was like, you know, you don't have like the- Yeah, yeah, true, true.
• 24:46
  Track 1: Now and so theater was a big thing and like even i
• 24:51
  Track 1: mean like there would be crazy stuff that
• 24:54
  Track 1: would like come through new york city and everybody would be like oh we gotta
• 24:56
  Track 1: go see the thing you know yeah that's true true that was a part that part did
• 25:01
  Track 1: make sense this this is the i mean not the height of but this is the early era
• 25:07
  Track 1: of vaudeville in which you know vaudeville was that That was culture.
• 25:12
  Track 1: That was what people went out to see.
• 25:16
  Track 1: So, you know, vaudeville basically ran from 1870s to 1930s.
• 25:20
  Track 1: So we are looking at, you know, within the first 20 years of vaudeville and
• 25:25
  Track 1: it being so, you know, huge.
• 25:27
  Track 1: Like, yeah, that would be, they didn't have radio.
• 25:29
  Track 1: They didn't have TV. That's what they did.
• 25:32
  Track 1: Circus is a big thing during this time too. Like the 1890s. Yeah, I would think so.
• 25:39
  Track 1: And that, I mean, that's, that's like where the big circuses came from,
• 25:42
  Track 1: right? They're from London, right?
• 25:43
  Track 1: Like Barlow, Barlow and I can't think of what it's called. Um, not awesome.
• 25:48
  Track 1: Yeah. Isn't that a British company?
• 25:52
  Track 1: Um, but yeah, no, I guess, I guess that does, so they are, so I guess you would
• 25:56
  Track 1: be talking about these things with your, you know, and especially I just also
• 26:00
  Track 1: think of a time when people would be on the street corner selling, you know,
• 26:04
  Track 1: newspapers and holding up billboards for their things that they're trying to sell.
• 26:09
  Track 1: So I imagine you're walking to work or whatever and you see,
• 26:11
  Track 1: Oh, like, come here, you know, check out this new magician, you know,
• 26:14
  Track 1: just, I don't know, 50 pence or whatever.
• 26:18
  Track 1: I don't know who knows what the cost of these things were, but I guess it does
• 26:22
  Track 1: make sense. But the illusion, the transported man took, caused Angier to essentially
• 26:27
  Track 1: become obsessed that he had to know the trick.
• 26:32
  Track 1: And Michael Caine is like, oh, well, he just has a body double who looks exactly like him.
• 26:37
  Track 1: And, you know, they found someone and he just goes through a trap door on one
• 26:41
  Track 1: side and he already pops through the other side and that's him.
• 26:44
  Track 1: But Angier is like convinced that it's not the real thing. And it seems like
• 26:49
  Track 1: everything from there spirals because he has to find out how he does this trick.
• 26:54
  Track 1: It's like imagining some other capitalist, like, creates the,
• 26:58
  Track 1: you know, Henry IV creates the assembly line.
• 27:00
  Track 1: It's like, oh, I got to know how he did that so I can, you know,
• 27:03
  Track 1: make my profits. And so, I don't know.
• 27:06
  Track 1: Yeah, it's really interesting because it's like Hugh Jackman's character has...
• 27:14
  Track 1: Money wealth power you know
• 27:18
  Track 1: like enough freedom to just go pursue magic
• 27:21
  Track 1: and yet he can't like let
• 27:24
  Track 1: go of how this one guy does his trick and
• 27:27
  Track 1: it's if you think about the classism angle it's
• 27:30
  Track 1: kind of interesting because it's like no matter how rich you are
• 27:33
  Track 1: like you can't figure out what this like kind
• 27:36
  Track 1: of commoner is doing and yeah it's like
• 27:39
  Track 1: oh well that that can't be why can this commoner
• 27:42
  Track 1: outsmart me and it's just like then you know
• 27:46
  Track 1: small falls from there it was always
• 27:49
  Track 1: about the fact that in reality and again we
• 27:51
  Track 1: come back to the idea of like you know the tech be like
• 27:54
  Track 1: i can make art and it's like and they cost like
• 27:57
  Track 1: they get so sensitive about it it's like you
• 28:00
  Track 1: didn't make art and it's like i can
• 28:04
  Track 1: do like i can do what that like you know modernist painter
• 28:07
  Track 1: did my child could do this but you didn't do it you didn't do
• 28:10
  Track 1: it and then it's the same thing because it's like what dance
• 28:14
  Track 1: and sheer admits like basically that christian
• 28:18
  Track 1: bell's character you know robert he's he's a better
• 28:21
  Track 1: magician he and his weakest and that's really what it is this is about he wants
• 28:27
  Track 1: to be better than him and the best part about all this is that Borden tells
• 28:33
  Track 1: him the trick Borden tells him before this trick ever happens,
• 28:39
  Track 1: before he invents the Entransported Man.
• 28:41
  Track 1: Tells him how he does it when they go and watch the guy with the goldfish ball
• 28:45
  Track 1: he tells him he's like, this is how he's doing it he lives that life.
• 28:52
  Track 1: His entire thing he lives that life his entire thing is the show,
• 28:58
  Track 1: he fucking if you're paying, like that's one thing.
• 29:04
  Track 1: Listen, I watched this movie the first time, you know, like when it came out,
• 29:07
  Track 1: it's all in the theaters and I loved it.
• 29:09
  Track 1: And like, I didn't watch it. Like, like Alexa, like, and then I didn't watch it for like 20 years.
• 29:14
  Track 1: And then we're like, we're doing the procedure. I'm like, you know what?
• 29:15
  Track 1: Fuck. I love that movie. And I'm watching this and it all comes.
• 29:18
  Track 1: And I was like, Holy shit.
• 29:20
  Track 1: This movie is even better. If you know, if you already know this movie is better.
• 29:25
  Track 1: If you already know the twist, if you know all the plot points of this movie
• 29:28
  Track 1: and you're watching it again, it's better.
• 29:30
  Track 1: It's even better because you're like, Oh wait, he's telling
• 29:33
  Track 1: him when you watch that when you watch him tell him that about the
• 29:36
  Track 1: the whatever that magician whatever
• 29:39
  Track 1: horribly racist name yeah
• 29:42
  Track 1: that was a pretty racist but you're you're
• 29:47
  Track 1: totally right he that's a i mean that's also i
• 29:50
  Track 1: think i was in my partially joking like letterboxd
• 29:54
  Track 1: review of the film i said that sort of like the
• 29:57
  Track 1: idea of the prestige is sort of a nod
• 30:00
  Track 1: to christopher Olsen almost giving a nod to like how he
• 30:03
  Track 1: crafts a movie where he is almost building
• 30:06
  Track 1: the I mean the movie really is built in that way of the you know the three different
• 30:11
  Track 1: you know stages of the of the trick and that's how he crafts this movie like
• 30:16
  Track 1: expertly like not that his other movies aren't that way but I think it's how
• 30:20
  Track 1: he does it and several times I think they kind of give away.
• 30:24
  Track 1: Moments it I can I made it sort of like kind of like fight club once you know
• 30:29
  Track 1: like this twist in Fight Club and then you watch it, you're seeing all these
• 30:32
  Track 1: things like, oh, they're giving it away there and then they give it away there
• 30:35
  Track 1: and they give it away there and it's, I think you're right Bill.
• 30:37
  Track 1: I think the movie is so much more fun to watch when you aren't having to be
• 30:43
  Track 1: completely fooled about what the twist is, which we will get to.
• 30:48
  Track 1: We'll save it a little bit longer. Yeah. Barnum Bailey, Ringling Brothers Barnum
• 30:53
  Track 1: and Bailey was an American circus.
• 30:55
  Track 1: Okay. They went to England, but they started in 1871 right around the beginning of Vaudeville as well.
• 31:02
  Track 1: There you go. All this is, it's all that time when all that stuff was huge.
• 31:07
  Track 1: Yeah. I think this is the point in
• 31:10
  Track 1: the film where I think there's a lot of interesting things to talk about.
• 31:14
  Track 1: And especially, I've actually, I'll get to in a second. There's a book that
• 31:17
  Track 1: I'm reading that's completely unrelated to this in every single way,
• 31:20
  Track 1: but it talks about, it's called The Extended Universe, and it's how Disney killed
• 31:25
  Track 1: the movies and took over the world.
• 31:26
  Track 1: And it's a new, it hasn't come out yet. This book is coming out on Haymarket soon.
• 31:31
  Track 1: But in it, they talk about Thomas Edison, which plays a small,
• 31:34
  Track 1: albeit I think important role in this movie as sort of a parallel rivalry that's happening.
• 31:41
  Track 1: So because Hugh Jackman is so, So he needs to beat him on this trick.
• 31:47
  Track 1: He travels to Colorado Springs in the United States to meet with Nikola Tesla
• 31:52
  Track 1: to try and get him to build him a machine, which is what he believes is how Borden does his trick.
• 31:59
  Track 1: So he's convinced that Tesla had built him some kind of machine that enables him to do the transport.
• 32:04
  Track 1: What's that? sorry it just like on that note
• 32:07
  Track 1: like he believes that there has to be a machine
• 32:10
  Track 1: he has to be working with tesla i think kind
• 32:12
  Track 1: of again almost goes back to that like tech bro
• 32:16
  Track 1: analogy because it's like oh there has
• 32:19
  Track 1: like you like you know from an like you were saying from an art perspective
• 32:22
  Track 1: like you can't just have created and thought of this beautiful painting you
• 32:27
  Track 1: know what i mean like it's it has to be it has to be a trick it has to be like
• 32:31
  Track 1: there's more behind it like you must have done something, all this research, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 32:36
  Track 1: Yeah, you can't just have worked and have talent and devote time and energy
• 32:41
  Track 1: and effort and passion into something. No, you couldn't.
• 32:47
  Track 1: What madman actually did?
• 32:50
  Track 1: What's effort into things?
• 32:53
  Track 1: Yeah. It's that you can pay for it.
• 32:57
  Track 1: Well, I'm going to take it even a step further. So before he actually goes to meet with Tesla,
• 33:01
  Track 1: he first brings on a body double who is obviously also played by Hugh Jackman,
• 33:08
  Track 1: who is going to be there on the other side while he does his version of the transported man.
• 33:13
  Track 1: And then, of course, you know, Christian Bale outs him and, you know,
• 33:18
  Track 1: makes it makes him break his leg on the trap door and moves the anyway.
• 33:22
  Track 1: But using the copy of himself, like the friend is almost like the idea of using A.I.
• 33:29
  Track 1: To be like, well, I can't actually do this trick with art. I have to just copy something else.
• 33:34
  Track 1: He literally is copying him by just finding some guy in London who looks like himself.
• 33:38
  Track 1: And poorly compensating him. like if he like the
• 33:42
  Track 1: reason it works with christian bale is because they're both
• 33:45
  Track 1: they're partners they're they're both 100 in
• 33:48
  Track 1: they are in it's both of them they are there it's egalitarian it is an egalitarian
• 33:55
  Track 1: totally equal relationship and partnership in every way much to both of their
• 34:00
  Track 1: detriments psychologically and emotionally deeply fucked up but like they're
• 34:05
  Track 1: both totally in it whereas like.
• 34:08
  Track 1: You know angiers just exploits some
• 34:11
  Track 1: other guy like that's all you know and like
• 34:15
  Track 1: i feel like honestly he probably could have just
• 34:17
  Track 1: paid him yeah and then and like he has the money so like but he has tried he's
• 34:24
  Track 1: trying to figure out a way to pay him the lease or like they could also they
• 34:29
  Track 1: could also just let people unionize instead of paying billions of dollars to
• 34:34
  Track 1: fight them Yeah, like the New York City nurses strike.
• 34:37
  Track 1: Yeah, like, you know, they could also just pay people a living wage,
• 34:41
  Track 1: but they're not going to.
• 34:43
  Track 1: And then after that fails, he sends his own assistant, who in this is played
• 34:46
  Track 1: by Scarlett Johansson, to spy on him, but then defects and falls in love with him.
• 34:52
  Track 1: So everything he's doing to try and... Yeah, go ahead. No, I was just going
• 34:56
  Track 1: to say, like, I think that the Scarlett Johansson example where he's there,
• 35:00
  Track 1: because they're now like dating, hooking up at this point, Hugh Jackman and
• 35:04
  Track 1: Scarlett Johansson's characters.
• 35:06
  Track 1: But he then sends her away.
• 35:10
  Track 1: And yeah, she falls in love with the other guy. But it's just another way that
• 35:14
  Track 1: like, people are disposable to Hugh Jackman's character.
• 35:18
  Track 1: Like, it's just like, oh, well, I, you are now a pawn in my game against this
• 35:24
  Track 1: other man. And it just speaks to the callousness of the character.
• 35:30
  Track 1: Even to the point where, you know, up until this point, he's never vocalized it.
• 35:36
  Track 1: But, I mean, you get the impression, but when she says to him,
• 35:40
  Track 1: let it go, he's like, it's not about my wife.
• 35:44
  Track 1: And he he drops he he finally he drops
• 35:47
  Track 1: that bomb he's just all it's this isn't about my life
• 35:50
  Track 1: no no i don't care yeah and
• 35:54
  Track 1: it's and it's like especially the way
• 35:57
  Track 1: hugh jackman says it it's just oh it's harsh it's
• 36:00
  Track 1: harsh it's like it's like a reaction of like
• 36:03
  Track 1: a like you know sometimes that's internal you
• 36:06
  Track 1: know he yeah that was not like you know like and
• 36:09
  Track 1: kudos to to jackman like for playing that because
• 36:12
  Track 1: like he sold that and it's just like you
• 36:15
  Track 1: know there was no second thought there was no
• 36:17
  Track 1: no that was internal that was an immediate
• 36:21
  Track 1: unconscious reaction that was the truth coming
• 36:24
  Track 1: out they said about my wife i don't fucking care yeah yeah that is true he's
• 36:30
  Track 1: like yeah he's pretty cold like throughout the entire film and i think it like
• 36:34
  Track 1: becomes even more present so i mentioned so he goes to colorado springs to meet
• 36:37
  Track 1: with the call of tesla who is we kind of like learn a little bit of information
• 36:41
  Track 1: about how Tesla is, what he's doing there.
• 36:44
  Track 1: And I think that's where is there some other interesting sort of dynamics that's
• 36:48
  Track 1: maybe hinted at, but not maybe as sort of the.
• 36:52
  Track 1: Reason for the film or i don't know it just like well crafted
• 36:55
  Track 1: into the the plot so tesla is providing power
• 36:58
  Track 1: to this entire town in exchange for essentially being able
• 37:01
  Track 1: to do his research there which he's apparently there
• 37:04
  Track 1: because of like the lightning storms allows him to use all of the
• 37:07
  Track 1: the power but there's also the same rivalry
• 37:11
  Track 1: between tesla and thomas edison and the thing that i reason
• 37:14
  Track 1: i mentioned that book before is something that i didn't really know i'm
• 37:17
  Track 1: not that well versed on sort of thomas edison's beyond the
• 37:20
  Track 1: sort of oh he's a genius and he made a bunch of inventions is that
• 37:23
  Track 1: he is extremely important in
• 37:27
  Track 1: the blocking and prevention of additional people
• 37:30
  Track 1: from making films when he invented the film camera
• 37:33
  Track 1: he would send goons to destroy anyone
• 37:37
  Track 1: else trying to film movies and so that's why
• 37:39
  Track 1: they film in hollywood is because they escaped to hollywood
• 37:43
  Track 1: to be able to film movies away from him in new jersey which is where
• 37:45
  Track 1: he was located sorry bill for new jersey and
• 37:49
  Track 1: is a is a shithole because of because of
• 37:52
  Track 1: edison's legacy that's why it's the it's the curse
• 37:54
  Track 1: of thomas edison sorry people who live in edison right and so like one sucks
• 38:00
  Track 1: damn but but like what i think is important about that rivalry is that we later
• 38:06
  Track 1: see thomas edison wants to essentially like destroy tesla's factory and what
• 38:10
  Track 1: made me think about it was that he's offering power to this town for free.
• 38:14
  Track 1: And why, how dare someone do that when we could be charging the town for power,
• 38:20
  Track 1: or we could be doing something else to profit off of them.
• 38:24
  Track 1: And I think that there's, it's very much part of the narrative of the.
• 38:28
  Track 1: You know, this being an illusion for capitalism. And then also just the,
• 38:31
  Track 1: the nature of, you know, Hugh Jackman's character being this capitalist type person.
• 38:38
  Track 1: Well, we learned later he is more of a capitalist type person, but I don't know.
• 38:42
  Track 1: Maybe I'm making too much of it, but I almost, I would now need to see a movie
• 38:46
  Track 1: about like a Thomas Edison versus Nikola Tesla.
• 38:49
  Track 1: Yeah. I mean, I'm.
• 38:51
  Track 1: Very much paraphrasing here in my historical knowledge
• 38:55
  Track 1: but edison was basically like
• 38:58
  Track 1: a cruel bully i think he stole a lot of his inventions
• 39:01
  Track 1: from his employees or other people
• 39:04
  Track 1: and so i don't know what he was
• 39:07
  Track 1: actually responsible for but then like in
• 39:10
  Track 1: when i think the scene is somewhere around
• 39:13
  Track 1: this point in the movie but christian bale's character goes
• 39:16
  Track 1: to the tesla convention or whatever the world
• 39:19
  Track 1: the world fair yeah and then the tesla's assistant
• 39:22
  Track 1: is like oh well edison is is trying
• 39:25
  Track 1: to say that you know alternating current is.
• 39:29
  Track 1: Is so dangerous which was true like edison
• 39:32
  Track 1: would go around he electrocuted an elephant electrocuted an
• 39:35
  Track 1: elephant yeah because he was trying to say that tesla's
• 39:38
  Track 1: alternating current was more dangerous than his direct
• 39:41
  Track 1: current so yeah Edison sucks
• 39:44
  Track 1: and then I believe Tesla
• 39:47
  Track 1: was also working on like they they
• 39:51
  Track 1: have Hugh Jackman's character walking around and and
• 39:54
  Track 1: like there's the spark things and he's not getting like electrocuted I
• 39:58
  Track 1: think Tesla was working on like wireless energy distribution
• 40:01
  Track 1: in his lifetime which would have if you know
• 40:04
  Track 1: we could have continued that would have been a completely different thing than
• 40:07
  Track 1: what we have so that the colorado
• 40:10
  Track 1: springs laboratory that is historic fact
• 40:13
  Track 1: so yeah tesla did that
• 40:16
  Track 1: is called the tesla experimental station it was in colorado springs and he specifically
• 40:20
  Track 1: went there to perform experiments on wireless wireless energy transmission in
• 40:27
  Track 1: low pressure areas because of the height it was at it was a high altitude location
• 40:32
  Track 1: It was an high frequency experimentation.
• 40:34
  Track 1: It possessed the largest Tesla coil of a built 49.25 feet in diameter,
• 40:40
  Track 1: uh, which was a preliminary version of the magnifying transmission,
• 40:44
  Track 1: uh, later planned for installation in the warden cliff tower. Um, um,
• 40:50
  Track 1: He was not only wireless energy, but also wireless telegraphy.
• 40:55
  Track 1: Um, he planned to conduct experiments to conduct wireless messages from Pike's peak to Paris.
• 41:04
  Track 1: Um, he did like, he powered college things.
• 41:10
  Track 1: He provided, like he set up the lighting, all that shit, like produce artificial lighting.
• 41:16
  Track 1: And they at one point
• 41:19
  Track 1: they said that like so sparks sprang
• 41:22
  Track 1: from waterline taps when touched light bulbs within 100 feet
• 41:25
  Track 1: of the lab glowed even when turned off um
• 41:29
  Track 1: when he experimented yeah
• 41:33
  Track 1: like all this stuff like yeah he the pikes
• 41:38
  Track 1: peak the colorado station that is all historical fact
• 41:41
  Track 1: that's why he went there to all that stuff seen with
• 41:44
  Track 1: the light bulbs in the snow is like one of the coolest shots maybe in
• 41:47
  Track 1: the entire film like i remember when the movie was like the tree
• 41:49
  Track 1: watch the trailer they show that briefly and you're like what does this have
• 41:53
  Track 1: to do with the movie but you're like oh that's i i don't care it doesn't matter
• 41:55
  Track 1: because it's gorgeous i think actually i should have mentioned this earlier
• 41:59
  Track 1: but the opening shot with all the hats that you see and like that's how the
• 42:04
  Track 1: movie starts and then you're like wait what is going on here.
• 42:09
  Track 1: Yeah it's again one of those things where they give away something very important
• 42:13
  Track 1: but you're not And like literally Michael Caine's thing is like,
• 42:17
  Track 1: are you paying attention?
• 42:18
  Track 1: It's like, like, yes, but no, I'm not, you know, like, you know,
• 42:21
  Track 1: it's, you're not, it's, it's just like how they talk about the trick is it doesn't matter what you do.
• 42:27
  Track 1: It's how you make it look like the, the dressing it up or the,
• 42:30
  Track 1: which I think what they also said earlier is that Christian Bale wasn't a good
• 42:33
  Track 1: showman, but he was a better at like crafting tricks. Yeah.
• 42:40
  Track 1: Yeah, and then, oh, go ahead. And by the way, Tesla was played by the late David
• 42:43
  Track 1: Bowie, and according to the story I saw was that he said no to being in the movie,
• 42:50
  Track 1: and then Chris Van Ollen flew out to London to see him.
• 42:55
  Track 1: And it didn't beg him, but basically it's like, I really need you to be in this
• 42:58
  Track 1: film. It can't be anyone else. And David Bowie was like, I see you're really
• 43:01
  Track 1: passionate about this. All right, I'll do it.
• 43:02
  Track 1: So that's why he ended up in this movie. He's a great Tesla.
• 43:05
  Track 1: He is. Yeah. Really good. Um, Edison did steal most shit and he specifically, he specifically,
• 43:15
  Track 1: like it is a well-documented, you know, that he specifically bullied and stole a lot of Tesla stuff.
• 43:24
  Track 1: This Tesla died, broke in an apartment. Like I think in like,
• 43:30
  Track 1: I think possibly the Bronx or Brooklyn. I don't remember exactly where.
• 43:33
  Track 1: At a hotel, I think. Yeah. In a hotel. Yeah. died broke in a hotel room. And I think the...
• 43:43
  Track 1: The most important part about Tesla's character in this and the juxtaposition
• 43:51
  Track 1: of him to Edison, and to be fair, Edison did not burn down his Pike's Peak,
• 43:57
  Track 1: the Colorado Springs lab.
• 44:00
  Track 1: He was sued for unpaid bills. Yes, he would have.
• 44:04
  Track 1: Tesla was sued for unpaid bills because Tesla was fucking poor.
• 44:09
  Track 1: Because all of his inventions were actually still most of his inventions that
• 44:13
  Track 1: made money were stolen by by us um but he serves the perfect juxtaposition to
• 44:22
  Track 1: edison in that like and he makes this point throughout it that basically like,
• 44:28
  Track 1: tesla is the creative energy he is he represents that like energy of like and they just like,
• 44:38
  Track 1: even when he's like, when he talks about how the machine doesn't do what it's
• 44:42
  Track 1: supposed to do. And he's like, that's the beauty of it.
• 44:46
  Track 1: Sometimes he's like science. He's like, it just does, you know,
• 44:49
  Track 1: does other things. He's like, that's the beauty of it.
• 44:51
  Track 1: And whereas Edison really stands for the commodification of creativity,
• 44:56
  Track 1: the commodification of the creative energy and the theft of creative,
• 45:02
  Track 1: creative energy by the capitals class.
• 45:05
  Track 1: And it's like Tesla, but Tesla and Edison are Angiers and important. Like they are.
• 45:13
  Track 1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, I feel like with Edison, too,
• 45:19
  Track 1: I like on that kind of commodity commoditization, if I'm saying it right.
• 45:24
  Track 1: But I'm pretty sure that like he had like a bunch of engineers that worked underneath him.
• 45:29
  Track 1: And then any of the good ideas were basically then attributed to Edison.
• 45:32
  Track 1: Yeah, that's the way it works now.
• 45:34
  Track 1: Yeah. And it's like, whereas Tesla was like dreaming of these impossible things
• 45:39
  Track 1: for, and then making them happen, you know, like, and yeah.
• 45:44
  Track 1: But for humanity, not for himself.
• 45:46
  Track 1: Exactly. Yeah, and that's why they went after him. You know,
• 45:49
  Track 1: I mean, it's, it's, I mean, that's why I think the analogy to the two,
• 45:53
  Track 1: like the two magicians is so perfect is that, you know, Angier,
• 45:59
  Track 1: Hugh Jackman doesn't want to do anything for people.
• 46:01
  Track 1: He's doing it for his own personal profit. Whereas, you know.
• 46:05
  Track 1: Borden just wants to entertain people and like make people wonder,
• 46:08
  Track 1: like, how did you do that?
• 46:10
  Track 1: And that's what people look at when they see light bulbs sitting in the snow
• 46:13
  Track 1: and then he lifts them up.
• 46:15
  Track 1: I think that's why Hugh Jackman is so like stunned by the things that he's creating
• 46:19
  Track 1: is because he'd never actually seen someone who actually was like creatively
• 46:21
  Track 1: creating something except for, you know, Borden in this case,
• 46:25
  Track 1: because it just, it's the same thing.
• 46:27
  Track 1: There's something else i was going to mention about it well i
• 46:31
  Track 1: think oh well the one of the things that so the other
• 46:34
  Track 1: half of my like serious and joking
• 46:36
  Track 1: letterbox review was that in addition to being about like christopher nolan's
• 46:40
  Track 1: films it's also about just the idea of you know the what's the word i'm thinking
• 46:45
  Track 1: of at the moment i can't think of it industrialization and just like the ability
• 46:48
  Track 1: to mass produce mass commodity mass produce commodities and or commodify all.
• 46:55
  Track 1: I'm not saying exactly right. But Tesla, when he's creating the machine,
• 46:59
  Track 1: to me, he's creating the ability to mass produce goods.
• 47:04
  Track 1: And he even says to him, like, you know, I'll give you this machine.
• 47:07
  Track 1: But like, you have to understand the cost that this is going to unleash upon the world.
• 47:12
  Track 1: And, you know, Hugh Jackman is like, I don't give a shit.
• 47:17
  Track 1: I want this machine. I need to be the best, which is how all,
• 47:20
  Track 1: you know, capitalists think. It doesn't matter what the cost of the environmental
• 47:24
  Track 1: cost, any of the human cost doesn't matter. And so that to me was sort of the.
• 47:29
  Track 1: And I think it's also like a machine that can do incredible things that could
• 47:34
  Track 1: actually be very useful for society.
• 47:37
  Track 1: And then instead he only uses it to win his like rivalry.
• 47:43
  Track 1: He could put food inside of there and feed people. Like I think about that.
• 47:46
  Track 1: Like put a whole thing of food.
• 47:48
  Track 1: Yeah. It's Elon Musk and going to Mars.
• 47:51
  Track 1: I have enough money. I can go, I can make, I can make a colony on Mars.
• 47:55
  Track 1: It's a fun space trip. It's like, motherfucker, you can solve homelessness.
• 47:58
  Track 1: Just, just do that.
• 48:01
  Track 1: Feed people.
• 48:05
  Track 1: It's like, why does it? Yeah. Like, why does it have to be this big fancy thing?
• 48:09
  Track 1: Like, yeah. Dudes like to solve the problem.
• 48:12
  Track 1: Yeah. It's, it's always the thing. It's like, you know, it's always the question
• 48:16
  Track 1: of, it's like, I have all this and I could do this thing that serves no purpose other than to,
• 48:24
  Track 1: maintain the status quo and keep me where I am.
• 48:28
  Track 1: And also further elevate my status.
• 48:32
  Track 1: Or I could just feed everybody. Well, why would I do that? Why would I do that?
• 48:38
  Track 1: So just, you know, I do think that because if you haven't seen the movie,
• 48:45
  Track 1: first of all, if you haven't seen the movie, why the fuck are you listening to this?
• 48:49
  Track 1: We didn't give away the big twist. But yeah, but we kind of need to right now.
• 48:53
  Track 1: We kind of need to. That's my point.
• 48:56
  Track 1: That's where I'm going. Okay. So, if you haven't watched the movie,
• 49:01
  Track 1: unless you want to have it all spelled right now, I can duck out and go watch the movie.
• 49:07
  Track 1: So, he goes to Tesla because he's convinced it's not a double.
• 49:11
  Track 1: And Tesla's machine, he convinces Tesla to make him a teleportation machine.
• 49:17
  Track 1: But in fact, he's not making a teleportation machine. What the machine actually
• 49:21
  Track 1: does is perfectly recreate whatever is put into it.
• 49:25
  Track 1: It makes a perfect duplicate including
• 49:29
  Track 1: living breathing conscious sage sentient sapient
• 49:32
  Track 1: life forms much and then two further why yes it's just a double borden is just
• 49:40
  Track 1: using a double it's just his twin brother that's all it is it's just his brother
• 49:45
  Track 1: that's it that's the whole thing yeah we well i mean.
• 49:53
  Track 1: I think it's so interesting because like we get the clues like he's using a
• 49:59
  Track 1: double like the clues with the magician the wife who talks about him being you
• 50:06
  Track 1: know you love me today you don't know tomorrow you may not.
• 50:11
  Track 1: Scarlett Johansson's character too like she seems to be in love with the other one guy.
• 50:18
  Track 1: And also like Christian Bale I mean you can tell like they're two.
• 50:22
  Track 1: Twins they're playing they're basically living the same life
• 50:25
  Track 1: and that's really the the big part of
• 50:28
  Track 1: it is not just that they're twins but that they are twins living
• 50:31
  Track 1: one life there is no they live the act they
• 50:34
  Track 1: live the act the weird thing that they also say that i didn't i noticed it this
• 50:39
  Track 1: time this is i actually watched this like maybe a year and a half ago for the
• 50:42
  Track 1: first time and this is the second time since the theater they also doesn't scarlett
• 50:47
  Track 1: johansson and them call them Alfred and Freddy like don't they refer to them as different names.
• 50:53
  Track 1: She calls him she calls him Freddy but then the wife calls him Alfred right,
• 50:59
  Track 1: yeah I think that was more like a familiarity thing because okay like she the
• 51:05
  Track 1: wife was mad because Scarlett Johansson was calling him Freddy like very familiarly
• 51:11
  Track 1: and she was like they're having an affair okay they were but brother were but
• 51:17
  Track 1: weren't But at the same time,
• 51:19
  Track 1: like there's no excusing, like there's no excusing either of these, either of the men,
• 51:25
  Track 1: like they're both committing emotional and physical, like adultery.
• 51:32
  Track 1: Like at one point you kind of want to be like, oh, but you know,
• 51:34
  Track 1: but it's like, he's still participating in the mind fucking of this woman.
• 51:43
  Track 1: Well, that's the thing that drives me insane because, like, so you realize that
• 51:47
  Track 1: it's the two of them, the twins living one life.
• 51:51
  Track 1: And, you know, as the movie progresses, I think her name's Sarah, the wife.
• 51:56
  Track 1: Yes. But she, like, gets more and more depressed and starts drinking because
• 52:04
  Track 1: she can't deal with, like, her husband seeming to be two different people.
• 52:10
  Track 1: And like they talk about you know that they talk about at the end and it's like
• 52:14
  Track 1: oh well you know sometimes I was with Sarah and sometimes I was with the other
• 52:20
  Track 1: person and all this stuff and it's like,
• 52:22
  Track 1: Okay, well, one easy fix for this is, like, just have the one that loves Sarah
• 52:28
  Track 1: be the one that hangs out with Sarah.
• 52:30
  Track 1: Like, why do you even have the other twin do it? Yeah.
• 52:34
  Track 1: Like, and this is what I mean. Because you've got to live the act. Yeah.
• 52:38
  Track 1: But I feel like this makes me really hate Christian Bale. Oh, 100%. Her characters.
• 52:45
  Track 1: Absolutely. They like as much as Q Jackman's character is so annoying because
• 52:50
  Track 1: it's like you are this rich man obsessed with winning something that like I
• 52:56
  Track 1: think is basically like Christian Bale was willing to go the mile to live that act for so long.
• 53:03
  Track 1: And Q Jackman couldn't wrap his mind around it. I think he just couldn't like
• 53:07
  Track 1: like understand why anyone would actually go to those lengths sort of like,
• 53:12
  Track 1: you know, like an actual artist would would go to these lengths to make art.
• 53:16
  Track 1: But then Christian Bale's character is also just so obsessed within their own
• 53:21
  Track 1: weird little dynamic of like we both get to like he he we both get to play like
• 53:26
  Track 1: the guy that you are literally having all of your deteriorate relationships
• 53:31
  Track 1: deteriorate around you and like actively hurting people.
• 53:35
  Track 1: And it's like, you could have done this so much better.
• 53:38
  Track 1: But I do think that that still comes back to a class analysis in which like
• 53:46
  Track 1: Christian Bell looked at the privation and horrors of the world around him that
• 53:52
  Track 1: he had the misfortune of,
• 53:55
  Track 1: you know, like, or not even the misfortune, but just like random chance being
• 53:58
  Track 1: born into and saw a way to succeed.
• 54:04
  Track 1: Saw a way to provide for himself and his family and then took that.
• 54:12
  Track 1: And then what, what happens? It's like, you are, you know, when you participate
• 54:18
  Track 1: in the system, you are alienated from yourself. Like we are literally watching.
• 54:23
  Track 1: This is like the physical like manifestation of alienation in that,
• 54:29
  Track 1: like this is one person split into two
• 54:32
  Track 1: people who are like constantly like they can't
• 54:35
  Track 1: even relate to each other they can't relate to the the people
• 54:39
  Track 1: they love and the people they that they live with their family their wife their
• 54:43
  Track 1: daughter or niece or you know later on um i cannot remember scarl johansson's
• 54:50
  Track 1: character's name her like can't live it fully olivia can't fully connect with olivia Why?
• 54:56
  Track 1: Because your life is forced to becoming, like your entire self is fractured
• 55:03
  Track 1: by being forced to participate in a system that does not allow you to be a whole person.
• 55:11
  Track 1: You are broken.
• 55:14
  Track 1: Capitalism breaks people.
• 55:17
  Track 1: Yeah. I like that a lot. But I also feel like- But also, yeah,
• 55:23
  Track 1: he's also a terrible person.
• 55:25
  Track 1: Yeah, no. He's still a terrible person. No. I'm not, I'm not excusing him.
• 55:30
  Track 1: I am providing a material analysis to why that happened.
• 55:34
  Track 1: He's still a terrible person. Like, there is like, and at one point,
• 55:38
  Track 1: like you, like Fallon, like.
• 55:42
  Track 1: Fallon is presented as the innocent in so many ways because he's almost kept
• 55:51
  Track 1: separate until the very end.
• 55:53
  Track 1: He's, you know, until the very end, Fallon is kept separate even after you know
• 55:58
  Track 1: that they're the same person.
• 56:00
  Track 1: He still is like kept at arm's length and it's like the, he's like the sullied innocence.
• 56:07
  Track 1: But at the end you're still like you can't help
• 56:10
  Track 1: like he's still fucking he he still
• 56:12
  Track 1: did all that like it's like fuck man
• 56:16
  Track 1: like this fucked up but what's so crazy is
• 56:19
  Track 1: that at some point earlier scarlett johansson's like you know
• 56:22
  Track 1: tells hugh jackman like he has a bunch of you know costume stuff
• 56:25
  Track 1: around but they that like he's and he's like they're the
• 56:29
  Track 1: same person and he's like uh no way you know he just
• 56:32
  Track 1: left it out for you to find you know and yeah like and
• 56:35
  Track 1: that's the thing too is that it's ben i feel like
• 56:38
  Track 1: it's like like and jeer is just
• 56:41
  Track 1: like he can't wrap his head around the fact that somebody
• 56:44
  Track 1: would go to these lengths because he has never
• 56:47
  Track 1: had to do that in his entire life he's never he
• 56:50
  Track 1: doesn't even know anyone in his social circle that's had to do
• 56:53
  Track 1: that it's like you've just always had been provided for
• 56:56
  Track 1: you always have means and resources and you
• 56:59
  Track 1: art force to get your hands dirty which is
• 57:02
  Track 1: in and of itself a way in which capitalism
• 57:06
  Track 1: robs the capitalist class of the human experience like i hate to like give capitalists
• 57:13
  Track 1: any fucking credit okay but they are not whole people either they have been robbed of um.
• 57:24
  Track 1: Vital aspects of humanity like the
• 57:27
  Track 1: striving and the passion and
• 57:31
  Track 1: you look at a thing and you're like you know
• 57:34
  Track 1: i i need to do this you
• 57:37
  Track 1: know like i i need to pour my soul into this thing you know
• 57:40
  Track 1: like as a writer and like a
• 57:43
  Track 1: person that has like spent my almost my entire life like in creative endeavors
• 57:47
  Track 1: like watching people try to justify use ai and like motherfucking you you don't
• 57:52
  Track 1: get it do you like you don't understand and it's the same thing with it's like
• 57:56
  Track 1: Christian Bale is doing it for
• 57:58
  Track 1: the love of the game like he's doing it for the love of the game like he
• 58:02
  Track 1: loves this shit he loves it I think that makes,
• 58:06
  Track 1: It makes Hugh Jackman or him so jealous because he doesn't seemingly love anything
• 58:14
  Track 1: as much as Christian Bale could love this.
• 58:17
  Track 1: And I think we're talking about he wants to be the best, but I think if anything,
• 58:22
  Track 1: it's like jealousy above all else is what he has.
• 58:25
  Track 1: Despite the fact that we learn later that he's actually Lord Caldwell,
• 58:28
  Track 1: who's the one who's sending the solicitor to Christian Bale in prison,
• 58:32
  Track 1: is going to adopt his daughter and give her a good life.
• 58:35
  Track 1: He's like a billion, I don't know how many, he's an enormous- He's a thousander.
• 58:41
  Track 1: A thousander, yeah, whatever. He's got lots of money.
• 58:46
  Track 1: But there is, what's great about this movie is once you find sort of the twist,
• 58:51
  Track 1: there's still like maybe 30 minutes left in the movie.
• 58:55
  Track 1: Shut up. Like, what's going to happen now? And then it just becomes to the point
• 59:00
  Track 1: where the ending is great. I mean, we can talk about the ending, too.
• 59:07
  Track 1: What's that? Truly macabre. Yeah. Yes.
• 59:11
  Track 1: That was the ending. It was the thing that I absolutely remembered, and it stuck in my brain.
• 59:17
  Track 1: Yeah, it's chilling. The blind stagehands?
• 59:21
  Track 1: Yeah, so for anyone, again, we've already spoiled the- So creepy. Whoa.
• 59:26
  Track 1: We've already spoiled the big twist, but it gets
• 59:29
  Track 1: even further where you learn that every time that
• 59:33
  Track 1: christian bale is doing the disappearing man
• 59:36
  Track 1: and so he he buys out the theater for like
• 59:38
  Track 1: 100 performances and then he's going to retire he's going to
• 59:41
  Track 1: be huge sorry i keep doing huge jackman i should just go by their name the state
• 59:46
  Track 1: name but robert angier is going to do the his trick for a you know for 100 days
• 59:51
  Track 1: and he's going to retire because now he's the best he can walk away saying he's
• 59:54
  Track 1: the greatest magician he's doing this trick and we learn that each time he's duplicating himself,
• 1:00:00
  Track 1: he's dropping the duplicate into a,
• 1:00:04
  Track 1: a tank of water it's locked up
• 1:00:07
  Track 1: they let him drown and then as you said these blind men
• 1:00:10
  Track 1: move the tank at the end of the night to some facility where
• 1:00:13
  Track 1: they just like essentially have a long hallway filled with
• 1:00:16
  Track 1: you know dead bodies inside of tanks which
• 1:00:19
  Track 1: also very strange like the company who makes these tanks is clearly able to
• 1:00:24
  Track 1: make this many tanks i don't know that too i was like okay i know he's got a
• 1:00:28
  Track 1: lot of money but like how how do you get all these tanks like who's like why
• 1:00:33
  Track 1: not just get rid of the body and like put the tank back and reuse it because
• 1:00:37
  Track 1: then he would have to face it.
• 1:00:39
  Track 1: Okay you're right he doesn't he doesn't look at it you're right
• 1:00:42
  Track 1: because that's why he's a lineman and he calls he says in
• 1:00:45
  Track 1: the end when you know christian bell says like you finally got your hands dirty
• 1:00:48
  Track 1: and hugh jackman says like he did but he doesn't he doesn't he's not getting
• 1:00:53
  Track 1: his hands dirty and he's still not making any actual sacrifices yeah like because in the end he's just...
• 1:01:04
  Track 1: In his like mind he's just
• 1:01:07
  Track 1: throwing away duplicate like
• 1:01:10
  Track 1: and he and he never confronts it he just hides it
• 1:01:14
  Track 1: away and i think it's really interesting because at one point
• 1:01:17
  Track 1: he's saying jackman is saying like um
• 1:01:20
  Track 1: i never know if i'm gonna wake up in the tank or
• 1:01:24
  Track 1: you know at the prestige but i
• 1:01:27
  Track 1: was like you always wake up
• 1:01:30
  Track 1: in the prestige because otherwise you'd be in the tank like
• 1:01:33
  Track 1: some part of you is experience or i don't
• 1:01:36
  Track 1: know how it would work you know if you're what one conscious
• 1:01:39
  Track 1: mind that remembers everything you did or just a
• 1:01:42
  Track 1: yeah they don't ever copy which i think
• 1:01:45
  Track 1: is sort of an interesting philosophical discussion but it
• 1:01:48
  Track 1: really like it's always you who ends
• 1:01:51
  Track 1: up in the prestige because you're standing here right now if it
• 1:01:53
  Track 1: wasn't then you would be dead and so that's yeah like
• 1:01:56
  Track 1: i think it's there's almost like he's like
• 1:01:59
  Track 1: yeah there's so much danger i'm i'm doing so
• 1:02:02
  Track 1: much but he's not and and even more
• 1:02:05
  Track 1: so like he's not even dealing with the bodies he's just hiding them in this
• 1:02:10
  Track 1: abandoned theater that i guess he now owns or something yeah and he he makes
• 1:02:15
  Track 1: that choice to do that because early on michael kane's character says i met
• 1:02:22
  Track 1: a man who once almost drowned.
• 1:02:24
  Track 1: What was it like he said it was like coming home
• 1:02:28
  Track 1: and then at the end he goes remember that
• 1:02:31
  Track 1: tory i told you he actually said it was the most agonizing experience
• 1:02:34
  Track 1: of his life so he has
• 1:02:37
  Track 1: managed to completely ignore and just you know hand wave away and almost like
• 1:02:45
  Track 1: like you know what it's the drowning actually it feels fucking great like you
• 1:02:53
  Track 1: know i'm doing them a favor.
• 1:02:56
  Track 1: And part of the thing that maybe is worth mentioning, when he's doing the trick
• 1:03:00
  Track 1: with the body, like the double of him, the thing that he's so mad about in that
• 1:03:05
  Track 1: trick and why he won't pay them is because he's under the stage and he doesn't get the applause.
• 1:03:10
  Track 1: He doesn't get the adulation of all the people adoring his trick.
• 1:03:15
  Track 1: It's the double who does it. And with this trick, he gets to be up on the stage
• 1:03:20
  Track 1: or on the balcony where, you know, they see him reappear.
• 1:03:23
  Track 1: And like he actually gets it he doesn't care about all the
• 1:03:25
  Track 1: the dead himself swimming in little tanks
• 1:03:28
  Track 1: because he gets the cheers and like that's all that
• 1:03:31
  Track 1: he cares about and it's just it reminds me of like a certain you
• 1:03:34
  Track 1: know owner of twitter who just just desperately wants
• 1:03:37
  Track 1: people to like him and i think that's also at the heart of this he just
• 1:03:40
  Track 1: desperately wants attention yeah well i think
• 1:03:43
  Track 1: isn't one of the last lines like you
• 1:03:46
  Track 1: know if you can fool them even for a second like it's
• 1:03:49
  Track 1: like yeah and i thought that was
• 1:03:51
  Track 1: interesting because it just speaks to yeah exactly like he
• 1:03:55
  Track 1: just wants the attention he wants the adulation he wants like the the ability
• 1:04:01
  Track 1: to fool people and it's just something so egotistical and and like sinister
• 1:04:09
  Track 1: about that where it's like oh it's just all for this for.
• 1:04:14
  Track 1: To get this adulations from everyone else. And it's, there's no like intrinsic motivation.
• 1:04:19
  Track 1: It's all just like, how will the outside recognize me?
• 1:04:23
  Track 1: I do appreciate though, that separately, that Michael Caine sort of realizes,
• 1:04:28
  Track 1: you know, cause he's a smart guy.
• 1:04:29
  Track 1: He realizes what he's, what he's done and helps Christian Bale essentially,
• 1:04:34
  Track 1: you know, kill him at the end, you know, and it's, you know, it's, it's weird.
• 1:04:42
  Track 1: He gets his, you know come up in sujag when he dies at
• 1:04:45
  Track 1: the end christian bale one version
• 1:04:48
  Track 1: of him lives you know the the the i guess
• 1:04:52
  Track 1: they're both magicians but the the nice one lives yes
• 1:04:57
  Track 1: the nice one i guess lives and you know but he also loses half of himself and
• 1:05:03
  Track 1: he's also lost his wife they both lost their wives so nothing he may win by
• 1:05:08
  Track 1: having his daughter but like does he really win you know at the end? No. No.
• 1:05:14
  Track 1: Also, he's still a bad person. Yeah. He's still a bad person.
• 1:05:18
  Track 1: That was one thing because when they're dragging off the twin to execute him,
• 1:05:26
  Track 1: because the Christian Bale bad twin gets executed,
• 1:05:30
  Track 1: as he's being pulled away, he's like, sorry about Sarah.
• 1:05:34
  Track 1: And that was one thing, too, where I was like, if you're the what I'll call the good twin,
• 1:05:39
  Track 1: like I would be absolutely furious that like my twin compatriot like basically
• 1:05:48
  Track 1: like drove my wife to kill herself.
• 1:05:50
  Track 1: But then again, it goes backwards. But they both did, right?
• 1:05:54
  Track 1: Yeah, they both did. He is complicit in that action.
• 1:05:58
  Track 1: Exactly. like it's like again like there could
• 1:06:01
  Track 1: have you could have dealt even with this whole situation of
• 1:06:04
  Track 1: living as one life you could have been able to like at least
• 1:06:07
  Track 1: try I mean you could just torture your wife but he also drives away
• 1:06:10
  Track 1: Scarlett Johansson like each drive away like their own
• 1:06:13
  Track 1: love right interest so but you're
• 1:06:17
  Track 1: even in some way what I think is how's it
• 1:06:20
  Track 1: going I think like the thank you I think the thing with
• 1:06:23
  Track 1: Scarlett Johansson is interesting because he's based because
• 1:06:26
  Track 1: like it's the the bad twin trying
• 1:06:29
  Track 1: to live his life because he goes you know it's like
• 1:06:32
  Track 1: a week or a few days after sarah dies the
• 1:06:35
  Track 1: wife and they're hanging out and he doesn't care because
• 1:06:38
  Track 1: he never loved her and he's almost trying to express that
• 1:06:41
  Track 1: and like have you almost have more of his individuality and then scarlett johansson
• 1:06:47
  Track 1: rejects him for it because she's like no you have you're completely unfeeling
• 1:06:51
  Track 1: you know the fact that you don't care about this and so i thought that was kind
• 1:06:55
  Track 1: of interesting just in the way that it was like, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
• 1:06:59
  Track 1: Like, you know, you can't pretend that you, this wasn't part of your life when
• 1:07:04
  Track 1: you're living this life as one person. Yeah.
• 1:07:06
  Track 1: But I think, I think the most important part of the final scene with Alfred Borden and Fallon.
• 1:07:16
  Track 1: Is the fact that Alfred Borden clearly did love the daughter and was distraught
• 1:07:22
  Track 1: over what would happen to her.
• 1:07:25
  Track 1: And I think that that is the key. And that is really the thing that shows how,
• 1:07:32
  Track 1: like, what is robbed from people in this, in the system.
• 1:07:37
  Track 1: Like, that's the, that's the part.
• 1:07:40
  Track 1: That's the key. They both, they both deeply love that little girl.
• 1:07:45
  Track 1: And they wanted her to be happy and cared for.
• 1:07:49
  Track 1: And they very much cared about her.
• 1:07:51
  Track 1: And I really feel like that that is the key to the whole thing.
• 1:07:55
  Track 1: That's like, makes it clear like what this does to people because they,
• 1:07:59
  Track 1: they both, you know, at its heart.
• 1:08:03
  Track 1: We should all be able to, we should be able to have that love and care for everybody in our life.
• 1:08:08
  Track 1: And yet that has been taken away and it's been shattered and they've been unable
• 1:08:14
  Track 1: to fully do that for like, for other people.
• 1:08:18
  Track 1: And it's like, but in that you see that glimpse of it.
• 1:08:21
  Track 1: That's, that's been taken away from them. yeah and what's
• 1:08:24
  Track 1: what's also at the interesting about that
• 1:08:27
  Track 1: last scene too is when he when he
• 1:08:30
  Track 1: finally realizes that the the lord is hugh
• 1:08:33
  Track 1: jackman and he hands him the actually how
• 1:08:36
  Track 1: he did the trick with like the twin brother he doesn't even look he just rips
• 1:08:39
  Track 1: up the paper and throw it like sprinkles it through the you know the prison
• 1:08:43
  Track 1: and like he doesn't care anymore about his trick because he has his daughter
• 1:08:48
  Track 1: he has his fame he has he has everything at this point he has what he thinks
• 1:08:53
  Track 1: is the guy behind bars and he'll, you know,
• 1:08:55
  Track 1: die for his, for his death and thinks he's going to get away.
• 1:08:59
  Track 1: And then, you know, when you see him, then follow him afterwards,
• 1:09:02
  Track 1: you know, into the theater and, you know, does that final scene.
• 1:09:04
  Track 1: It's just, you can't still, but help, but feel glad that Hugh Jackman just gets
• 1:09:10
  Track 1: shot and burned to death.
• 1:09:13
  Track 1: Yeah. Yeah. Though also just one like question I had on this was like he seemed
• 1:09:20
  Track 1: like he was basically willing to...
• 1:09:24
  Track 1: Bale was willing to give up his greatest treasure, which is the secret that
• 1:09:31
  Track 1: he has been literally living this one life as two people.
• 1:09:36
  Track 1: And he was willing to give it up for his daughter, which I think speaks to that
• 1:09:41
  Track 1: idea of like the thing that you most treasure, that's most important to you or most valuable to you.
• 1:09:46
  Track 1: And then having to give it up because you can't find any other way to like have
• 1:09:51
  Track 1: the means and ability to care for your family or the people you really care
• 1:09:54
  Track 1: about and at the same time i was like,
• 1:09:59
  Track 1: why there's another one out there like why is he so worried like couldn't the
• 1:10:06
  Track 1: other guy do it i mean i don't know it sounded like they were like they were
• 1:10:10
  Track 1: victorian laws because they talked about I think the poor ass. Yeah.
• 1:10:14
  Track 1: But, uh, well, they said like, I'm blanking on the work house.
• 1:10:17
  Track 1: Sorry, not the boss, the work house, but like the trick master guy that I'm doing.
• 1:10:22
  Track 1: Yes. Michael Caine. Yes. Thank you.
• 1:10:26
  Track 1: So Michael Caine, they, I think they were saying like he was too old,
• 1:10:29
  Track 1: so they wouldn't let her go with him or something like that.
• 1:10:32
  Track 1: Or maybe they were saying that about Fallon, but like, that was also a little bit confusing for me.
• 1:10:38
  Track 1: Cause I was like, you literally have a twin like why can't he just take her
• 1:10:41
  Track 1: and like go move I think he like basically doesn't exist.
• 1:10:48
  Track 1: Which they previously like earlier on when like he's like Angier's talking about
• 1:10:54
  Track 1: it's basically like Fallon doesn't exist like he doesn't exist on paper which to be fair honestly,
• 1:11:00
  Track 1: in 1890 like no one did like there were people who literally there were people
• 1:11:07
  Track 1: in like who literally made to living, murdering people in towns,
• 1:11:11
  Track 1: collecting life insurance, then moving to the next town and doing it again.
• 1:11:14
  Track 1: So, you know, I'm sure they could have like, I'm sure they could have done something. I mean.
• 1:11:22
  Track 1: Records were not they were not top notch back then unless you were like a lord
• 1:11:27
  Track 1: like you know the other guy of course then your entire life is based on your
• 1:11:31
  Track 1: birth you know record everybody else they didn't really give a fuck yeah.
• 1:11:38
  Track 1: Oh man did Alexa or Bill either have any last thoughts on the film or anything
• 1:11:43
  Track 1: we know we didn't cover yeah,
• 1:11:48
  Track 1: I basically one thing that I just really liked about the film,
• 1:11:54
  Track 1: and this doesn't really have to do anything with leftist politics,
• 1:11:57
  Track 1: but I did really like so when they go to Tesla and then he makes the machine
• 1:12:07
  Track 1: and I think Hugh Jackman and Michael Caine's characters are like, he can do real magic.
• 1:12:13
  Track 1: Like this idea of like
• 1:12:16
  Track 1: real like he that technology is the
• 1:12:19
  Track 1: real magic i would i just got really excited when
• 1:12:22
  Track 1: i saw that part because um i
• 1:12:26
  Track 1: don't know for me i think that is kind of what magic is
• 1:12:29
  Track 1: like obviously not necessarily illusion magic and
• 1:12:32
  Track 1: things like that but like i feel like
• 1:12:35
  Track 1: magic is the thing is the science we haven't discovered yet
• 1:12:38
  Track 1: and the explanation that we haven't discovered yet and actually
• 1:12:42
  Track 1: so i'm buddhist my i'm born and raised buddhist i
• 1:12:45
  Track 1: practice every day and they say enlightenment
• 1:12:48
  Track 1: is understanding the true nature of all phenomena and so i kind of feel like
• 1:12:54
  Track 1: magic is basically like our understanding through enlightenment and it's kind
• 1:12:58
  Track 1: of that in-between space um and i just i don't know i just thought it was interesting
• 1:13:04
  Track 1: and cool because i do feel like.
• 1:13:06
  Track 1: Um there is magic in the world and
• 1:13:10
  Track 1: beauty and splendor and all these cool things and
• 1:13:13
  Track 1: it's also just really interesting to try to like learn about it and understand
• 1:13:17
  Track 1: it and figure it out and then maybe interpret it in a way where you could have
• 1:13:21
  Track 1: wireless electricity and machines that make doubles and all that i think that's
• 1:13:28
  Track 1: such an interesting like such an interesting like,
• 1:13:32
  Track 1: take on that like it's such an interesting interpretation especially because
• 1:13:36
  Track 1: like when i think of it like tesla to me like.
• 1:13:44
  Track 1: Tesla himself is like what to me is like, they're like, Oh, he does real magic.
• 1:13:50
  Track 1: And it's like, but to me, it's like what it really is like for like Tesla.
• 1:13:54
  Track 1: It's like Tesla is magic because he sees the beauty of possibility.
• 1:13:59
  Track 1: Like it's about Tesla as a person being, seeing that potential,
• 1:14:06
  Track 1: seeing that beauty and want, and like wanting it out of like.
• 1:14:11
  Track 1: But in a pure, innocent like sense
• 1:14:15
  Track 1: not in a self-serving sense and
• 1:14:18
  Track 1: like for purely for the sake of like discovery like
• 1:14:22
  Track 1: very much like in like star trek as a
• 1:14:25
  Track 1: star trek fan when there is an episode a
• 1:14:28
  Track 1: very famous episode when they like rescue and it's
• 1:14:31
  Track 1: also they do it they do one of the movies too where they basically get like
• 1:14:34
  Track 1: something like from like old time they've been like suspended whatever
• 1:14:37
  Track 1: and it's like well why do you do you don't need money why do
• 1:14:40
  Track 1: you do it it's like be for for the better of of ourselves and like
• 1:14:43
  Track 1: that's what tesla like this is like i do this because
• 1:14:46
  Track 1: this is beautiful and i want to you know like that's the
• 1:14:49
  Track 1: magic and yeah it's yeah i think
• 1:14:51
  Track 1: it's awesome absolutely i mean i think it goes to
• 1:14:55
  Track 1: like tesla being the real artist right like it has like the vision and wants
• 1:14:59
  Track 1: to create this beauty and create these magical things and also like is is not
• 1:15:07
  Track 1: swept up in the capitalist idea of commoditizing and commercializing and how
• 1:15:12
  Track 1: am I going to make money at this it's just about,
• 1:15:15
  Track 1: like the love of the game you know he wanted to create world peace like that
• 1:15:19
  Track 1: was like his goal he wanted to create,
• 1:15:22
  Track 1: through technology he wanted to create world peace.
• 1:15:29
  Track 1: One day tesla speaking though even like um with you know like tech bros kind of.
• 1:15:39
  Track 1: Just co-opting things or stealing things i
• 1:15:41
  Track 1: mean that's like what elon musk did with
• 1:15:44
  Track 1: tesla 100 is so cool
• 1:15:47
  Track 1: and then now it's like this terrible company yeah
• 1:15:50
  Track 1: yeah you talk about tesla the
• 1:15:53
  Track 1: man you're like wait do you mean that shitty car like no
• 1:15:56
  Track 1: you just keep the tesla just keeps getting fucked by tech
• 1:15:59
  Track 1: bros like literally the guy had
• 1:16:04
  Track 1: to die poor in a hotel in you know new york city and
• 1:16:07
  Track 1: now they're just we're just you know we're just laughing at
• 1:16:10
  Track 1: his grave when we should be celebrating him so bad
• 1:16:13
  Track 1: it's so bad yeah well
• 1:16:17
  Track 1: i don't i don't i don't have any more poetic ending for that but i can i can
• 1:16:23
  Track 1: leave it there but alexa thank you so much for coming on everyone should check
• 1:16:26
  Track 1: out your page as well so that they can learn things to buy that are not owned
• 1:16:32
  Track 1: by evil tech bros would be a good start.
• 1:16:36
  Track 1: Put all the contacts for that, of course, in the show notes.
• 1:16:38
  Track 1: So if you check out the show notes, all the ways to check out Alex's work will
• 1:16:42
  Track 1: be in the show notes for you to follow through.
• 1:16:45
  Track 1: And I'll just give a little shout out because by the time this airs,
• 1:16:49
  Track 1: I will have formally launched my website, which is just cutoffthespigot.com.
• 1:16:54
  Track 1: And you can go there and you know if you go to the articles page you can search
• 1:16:58
  Track 1: for whatever you're trying to find and it makes everything a lot easier than
• 1:17:03
  Track 1: digging through a bunch of Instagram videos so.
• 1:17:09
  Track 1: Excellent awesome well Alexa thank you so much for being on and for everyone
• 1:17:13
  Track 1: listening to Left of the Objector you can also go to our website leftoftheobjector.com
• 1:17:17
  Track 1: and listen to any number of episodes on many different films and we will catch
• 1:17:23
  Track 1: you next time Have a good night, everybody.