Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 97: Michelle Obama and Real Power

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Ep. 97: Michelle Obama and Real Power · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word.
• 0:26
  And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I saw a man on a game show yesterday who had smile lines up by his cheekbones, and it looked like he was a fish
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: With gills. No hello. No nothing. Just smile lines and fish.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the We Are More podcast. My name is Bree, like the cheese minus the e. And my name
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: is Alyssa. Just that's all.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Similar to Alyssa Lu, but Alyssa this Alyssa has an extra s.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I do. And there's no Lu in my name.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Nope. But we could call you that.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Did you guys watch her performance? I'm not big on the Olympics. It's just not my vibe. Mhmm. No shade to you if you love it, but it's just not my thing.
• 1:15
  But I was absolutely forced to watch her performance. And I just loved her vibe. She is an Olympic like, a US Olympic Ice Skater. She won the women's gold, I think, in the open. Am I correct in saying No.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know. She won a gold. She won a gold medal while she was dressed
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: in gold. And I just love like, her whole I don't know. Her whole vibe. Like, her hair is striped black and blonde. Like, horizontal stripes, which impressive to whoever her hairstylist is.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: She said every year, she adds another stripe. That's hilarious.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. And a lot of effort, man. Yeah. And she said that she quit skating after the last Olympics. She, like, retired at 16.
• 1:58
  Right? I just don't even know how to deal with that. But she left because she didn't love it anymore. And then she, over the last four years, left, decided not to do it anymore, and then decided to come back and found that she loved it again. Mhmm.
• 2:12
  But I wonder if maybe it's because she decided to love it as herself and not follow all the rules that everybody else follows. People are calling her the real life ice princess.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Because if anybody from our age grew up watching the Disney channel I don't think it was a Disney channel original.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: No. I don't think it was.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: But it was a Disney movie called ice princess, and that's the vibe. Like,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: be yourself. Do your own thing. Be yourself,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: and you're gonna be amazing. And she was. She was skating to one of the songs from Beetlejuice two. Part two? Beetlejuice.
• 2:46
  Beetlejuice. Yeah. Her vibe was mhmm.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: She has what she calls a smiley piercing, I guess. I don't know if that's, like, a common thing. But she she's got a piercing inside of her mouth. She apparently did it herself.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: On her freedom, and I don't like that. Yeah.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I it's wild. But that's the thing is you look at most women in professional sports, and there's an expectation of how they're gonna look, especially when it comes to the Olympics. And it is this very you have to look young. You have to look like, your makeup has to be very natural. You no tattoos, no weird piercings, no weird hair colors.
• 3:23
  There's an expectation of what women will look like.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's, like, clean, businesslike, polished.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: And she's decidedly not. Mhmm. She looks completely different from the rest of the skaters, and she won gold because she wanted to.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because she I mean, you could see, like, the joy in her. Mhmm.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: And I loved the confidence after she sat down and they were announcing, like, oh, what's your score? Mhmm. She goes, yep. I knew it. I know.
• 3:47
  Yep. I knew it.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: And people will give you crap for that. Of like, oh, well, she's overconfident. Oh, well, she's cocky, whatever. No. When you know that you've done something well, just own that you've done something well.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, you're a liar. Yeah. And we crushed it. Yeah.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I actually remember I don't know if it was the last summer Olympics or the one prior to that. But the women's beach volleyball teams were they are required to wear those tiny, tiny shorts. It's not like they choose to do that. They are required by whatever governing board does the Olympics to wear these thong, big shorts. Right?
• 4:23
  And tops and everything. And they were like, look, this is not good for us. It's not helping us do the sport. It's actually hurtful to the way that we do our sport. We would like to wear something different.
• 4:35
  And the the governing board said no because no one will watch this sport if you aren't showing off your body in such a way. Now they're not saying that to the men, but they are saying that to the women. And there was a
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: lot of
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: pushback. But it's just like, there is an expectation of how women in sports will look, how women in general will look.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Or gymnasts now will wear because men will wear, like, a full. I guess you would call it a, like, singlet Yeah. With pants. But the girls are required to wear just the regular leotard.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if it was The US or what, but they started wearing, like, full length leotards. Yeah. And that was like controversy. Woah.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: And no shame to whatever makes you feel comfortable. If you're comfortable in a leotard, then that's great. That's fine. Do that. But if you would prefer to be more covered up, you should be able to do that without worrying about, oh,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: well, the
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: men won't like it. Or, like, you know?
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Well, it also limits people with, like think about different religions who are required not to show parts of their body. Right. And that limits their ability to be in that sport because of the expectation of what you have to look like and wear.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But I think that leads us really well into a little bit of what we're gonna be talking about today. I feel like it does because the expectations of women.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Oh. Well, there we go.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: There we go. Transitions. You don't even have to do your transition song.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I would like to anyways.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Alright. Go ahead. I really need to get that, like I I almost said I need to get that recorded, and then I realized everything we're doing
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: is recorded. It is recorded. We just have to snip it.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'd have to get that little bit. But today, we're gonna be talking about Michelle Obama primarily, and we're gonna be talking about some other first ladies as well because I think we're seeing a lot of chatter about that right now as Melania Trump's documentary just came out last week.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Hard to say. I think
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: it was last week, maybe two weeks ago. And Michelle Obama's documentary Becoming surged, like, 1600% on Netflix in the same week that that came out. Mhmm. So you're seeing a lot of talk about women, which is important. But also, what are we talking about?
• 6:48
  And why are we talking about them?
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: And is it just because of
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: their relationship to men? So Brie's done a lot of research on it. I've done some different sorts of research on it, and we're gonna talk about that.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So Michelle Obama is the wife of Barack Obama, and he served as president for two terms of The United States. And she's just a very interesting and unique person in and of herself apart from being a first lady. And that's what I find so inspirational about her. I started watching her documentary Becoming, which I think is very interesting because it was produced by her and Barack.
• 7:25
  They have their own production company. That's crazy. Yeah. Who knew that? They've only done a couple of things.
• 7:30
  I know they have a a few other projects that they're working on, and one is award winning. So good for them. So Michelle Lavonne Robinson Obama. Wow. That was so many names.
• 7:41
  I know. Was born 01/17/1964 in Chicago, Illinois, specifically the South Side. Mhmm. And that was during a time where I think they called it, like, the white flight or something.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Okay. Yep.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Where there were Black families moving into neighborhoods, and there was a fear that the property values were going to decrease for specifically White families. So all the White families were moving out of these areas. Mhmm. And she talks about a lot how her family dynamic really helped her in her growing up experience. So her mom and dad enjoyed listening to her and her brother.
• 8:23
  Mhmm. They didn't find them as a nuisance. Mhmm. They didn't find them as annoying or just children. She's like, My mom and dad thought we were funny.
• 8:32
  Mhmm. And that's great. At a good time. Yes. Yeah.
• 8:35
  So it just shows in even in her adult life, the relationship that she still has with her mother and the relationship that she has with her brother. Her father has passed away, but it helped build the person that she is today. And especially, I think it helps growing up in those parts of Illinois and going to school as a young Black girl. I don't know what that experience is like, but she talks about it in her documentary and in her book about, I it's not easy being someone who looks different. Yeah.
• 9:06
  And showing the world that, like, I'm just as good as anybody else. And she really did. So she is super educated.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: And she got her bachelor's degree at Princeton University and then went on to get her
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: it's called a JD. Juris doctorate. I did look that
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: up. Mhmm. So she got that at Harvard, which means that she went on to become a lawyer, a practicing lawyer. And that's how she met Barack Obama. Mhmm.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: At Which okay. I didn't know that she was a lawyer, actually, until you said that. Mhmm.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She was a practicing lawyer. And at the law firm that she was working at, Barack came and started working there as well. And I think she, like, mentored him. Mhmm.
• 9:46
  Which I think is hilarious. Yeah. She mentored one of the most beloved presidents in the world. Mhmm.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Actually, you know what that reminds me of? In the Bible, do you remember the story of and we've talked about them, Prisca and Aquila. They were a husband and wife team
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: That Paul talks about. And they pretty much revolutionized the early church. They taught. They led the church together. And there was a man named Apollos, and he was going around preaching.
• 10:16
  And he was preaching a lot of things incorrectly, not intentionally. He wasn't trying to say things wrong. He just didn't know. And so Prisca and Aquila brought him into their home, and she mentored him and taught him about Jesus. And then he went off and did great things because of what she did.
• 10:36
  And that's what that reminds me of.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: And you have to think too, in their situation, where would Barack be without Michelle Right. Being there to help him and guide him as well. Mhmm. Now she, I'm very upset, is not interested in that side of politics anymore. So she doesn't want to do electoral politics anymore.
• 10:55
  But she's still very much involved in certain agendas. Mhmm.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Which is so sad. I she did make a statement because people kind of called on her to run-in the last election.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: I really wish she did. My gosh. She would
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: have voted for her in her feet. Not that I wasn't very happy with our candidate. But she basically said, you guys are not ready for a female president. That And made me very sad. It made me sad to see what women go through just to exist.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: She actually got a lot of backlash during Barack's first election.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: She came out with a statement and said, like, for the first time, pretty much ever, I'm really proud of my country. Mhmm. Because she was looking at her and her husband and who The United States elected as their president, and she is proud. Mhmm. This is the first Black president of The United States and see how far we've come.
• 11:48
  Yeah. And see how far we've fallen, but see how far we've come. And she got a lot of backlash about that and said that she was, like, anti Americans because of that statement. And I think she's, like, the most American.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's so weird to me this concept of anti American. We're so obsessed with this American ideal and, like, America's the best country in the world and blah blah blah blah blah. And if you don't think that, then get out. Whatever.
• 12:13
  But the reality is that, clearly America has very far to go, and it's okay to say that. And that doesn't make you anti American. It just makes you someone who sees reality.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you can trace your family roots back to being slaves. And how cool would it be to go back in that time and say, guess what? Someone in your bloodline is going to go on to become one of the most powerful and influential people in the country. Mhmm.
• 12:43
  That's amazing.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of the first women really to be able to do some of these things that she does. We'll talk about some really important things that she's done in her life that nobody else did.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So she served as first lady from 2009 to 2017. She was, like we mentioned, the first African American first lady in The United States. And she served alongside her husband. And she started she headed up a few different initiatives while she was in office.
• 13:13
  So the Let's Move campaign, which Alyssa and I are very familiar with, that kind of happened while we were in school. And it changed the only thing that it really impacted for us was, like, the food programs. I'll be fully honest with you. We were all like, thanks, Michelle. Was not Thanks, Obama.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Because we had pop machines all throughout our school, and I would get a pop all the time. And then all of a sudden, it was only diet pop. I was like, this feels like a negative change. So, like, I wasn't the most thrilled. But at the same time, she jumped into kids nutrition when no one else was talking about it.
• 13:52
  And that's what that campaign was. It was like, let's talk about the nutrition in our schools and let's do something because no one's doing anything. So even if we do the wrong thing, then we can correct.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I could be wrong in this, but I think it required school meals to include a fruit or a vegetable or a fruit and a vegetable. I believe you're right.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: In order to count as a full meal, which maybe it wasn't the best fruits and vegetables. But maybe it had good impacts on other schools that I am not aware
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: of. Mhmm. Well, I can tell you for my daughter's school right now, in order for it to count for a lunch because Michigan passed a I don't know if it's a law, but Michigan has a statute basically that all public school lunches are free now. And which I think is amazing. Mhmm.
• 14:40
  Our governor put that through for the last few years. And it's been really helpful for me as, like, a middle class person. I can't imagine how much more helpful it is for people who are struggling even more. But at her school, in order for it to count for that free lunch, it has to include a fruit or vegetable. And they have, like, a fruit bar that they can go to and grab Mhmm.
• 15:02
  An apple or a banana or something along those lines. Mhmm. And that's not only important for their nutrition that day, but for the habits that they build as they get older.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And even if they're not eating it every time, at least it's being offered to them. Right. And kids in Michigan get free breakfast as well Yeah. Right now.
• 15:22
  Yep. So at least Monday through Friday, we know that those kids are eating at least two meals a day.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: With the opportunity to have fresh fruits and vegetables, which maybe, especially depending on where you live socioeconomically, fresh fruits and vegetables are not easily accessible to all of these children. And so they have that opportunity to have that. Mhmm. And you could even argue that that program in Michigan may not have existed if Michelle Obama didn't start talking about children's nutrition in schools. Mhmm.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: She also started the initiative called Reach Higher, which encouraged US students to pursue college or postsecondary school education. It specifically was targeting the more struggling communities and telling them and showing them just look at where I started. Right. Look at my story. You are capable.
• 16:15
  Mhmm. No matter what background you come from, you can have a good education. You can want more Mhmm. Out of life.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: That is possible. Well, I I'm sure we've told this story before, but there's a story about a teacher who puts a trash can at the front of the classroom and has all the students stay in their desks, so, like, lined up front to back. Right? And gives them each a balled up piece of paper and says, okay. Everybody try and get it in the trash can.
• 16:43
  And all the kids in the front row get it in. Some of the kids in the next row get it in. And by the time it gets to the back row, these kids are like, maybe one or two of them hits the trash can, but hardly every and the teacher says, this is what privilege looks like. It's not fair. It's privilege.
• 16:59
  And when you come from the type of background that she did, when you come from impoverished backgrounds, when you come from backgrounds where people are struggling, oftentimes you don't have a model to follow to say, like, I can do so much more. So something like this says to those kids, you can do this. I did it. So you can too. There's no reason you can't.
• 17:26
  Mhmm.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: You just have to reach high. Something that I really liked in her documentary, she has these circles with kids from the local schools, and they get hand selected, different kids. And she goes around, she talks to them, why do you think you were picked? I don't know. There's nothing special about me.
• 17:47
  My this is my background. I don't get straight As. There's no reason why I should be here. And she goes, and that's exactly why you should be here. Because it's an opportunity for anyone.
• 17:58
  It's not just for the super smart people or whatever. Like, I'm here for everybody. Another initiative that she headed up was the White House Kitchen Garden, an American grown That's all it's called. That's a great title. White House Kitchen Garden, an American grown.
• 18:16
  I love it. So it highlighted agriculture, nutrition, and food education. So that went right along with the let's move campaign. She also didn't
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: she plant a vegetable garden at the White House? Probably. I believe she did, like, huge vegetable garden just sort of as an example of look what you can do in your communities. Mhmm. And, you know, inspiring community gardens and people to come together and find, like, a tiny plot of land in the middle of New York City and grow things together, have access to fresh vegetables and fruits.
• 18:44
  And and it's again, it's the same thing of, like, I'm going to lead by example. I'm not just gonna tell you from my spot of privilege, this is what you should do. But I'm gonna sit with you in it. Mhmm. And say this is what we can
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: do together. She's authored three books at this point. So Becoming was published in 2018, is a memoir that kind of focuses on her time as the first lady and things leading up to that. So her childhood, her career, motherhood, her life in the White House, etcetera. And then The Light We Carry, which I have been working through right now, was published in 2022, which is kind of a story of confidence and overcoming.
• 19:28
  She really highlights in the beginning her dad who had MS. And she lost him when she was 27. But growing up and seeing him just every day go to work at the water filtration plant and come home and still be her dad and still show up and do everything he could for her and just growing up and seeing that example. And then she also just recently came out with The Look, which was published in 2025, which focuses on fashion and the stories behind the fashion, which is kind of fun. And she has a podcast that goes alongside that book.
• 20:06
  Mhmm.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's kind of funny because so we're gonna do a little bit of comparison to Melania Trump as well. And when I was doing research on her, what Melania is primarily known for is her fashion, which is a struggle for me because that shouldn't be all you're known for. But I think it's funny that in this Trump era of dumpster fires that Michelle Obama was like, no. We're gonna talk about my fashion. Because I've already talked about me and who I am.
• 20:41
  Now we're gonna talk about this.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Here's my looks. Well, I also think it's interesting because she was super criticized during Barack's presidency for her specifically her arms. What? Now, later on, it became like, oh, the Michelle arms. Mhmm.
• 20:57
  Because she's super strong. Yeah. She works out all the time. She's like a tough, strong, tall woman. Mhmm.
• 21:04
  And they criticized her for wearing, like, sleeveless dresses and outfits that showed her She
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: used muscles.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: And so that was kind of the Republican stance, showed kind of the racism Mhmm. In the country. They didn't want her to show off her arms. They said it was inappropriate. Why?
• 21:24
  It's an arm. Mhmm. It's just an arm.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: It is her body. Mhmm. And she gets to decide what to show off and what not to.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: They labeled her as, like, an angry black woman when she was just very educated and speaking out on causes that she found important.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: She also did a lot for education. She talked about the power of education in general a lot. She also had several initiatives where she went into developing countries and worked for girls and women's educations, things like that, just to say women are important in the world. Mhmm. Without women's voices, we won't move forward.
• 22:01
  And I actually have a couple of quotes from her. One of them says, education is the single most important civil rights issue that we face today. And I think that's so so important from her because if everybody was educated at the same level, if women and girls were expected to be educated at the same level as men, as opposed to we've got the Florida Board of Education where they're like, oh, girls shouldn't go to college, actually.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: You know? And she's talking obviously about race and economics and gender and things like that. But specifically from from our standpoint, the education of women is so important.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Well, you think back years ago, they didn't want women to be able to read.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: They didn't want to educate women because they wanted to keep them they wanted to keep control of them. Mhmm. So let's teach them what we want them to know how to do. Cook, clean, take care of me. Mhmm.
• 23:03
  And we started to move forward. Right? We started to gain education, gain the right to vote, learn to ride a bicycle so that we could transport ourselves back and forth without the help of a man. And now it seems like we're regressing. And I love that Michelle is speaking out about this, and people like Kamala Harris and the other first ladies that are speaking out and saying, no, we need to educate our girls.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Well, you'll see a lot of anti feminist content. If you go on on TikTok, on any social medias, you'll see the conservative side of things. You'll you see the rise of the trad wife
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: And things like that and this anti feminist rhetoric. And I saw someone say, the only reason that you can stand there and be anti feminist is because of the feminists who came before you. Mhmm. The only reason you can have a social media platform at all without your husband's approval is because feminists did that for you. Are you enjoying your credit card?
• 24:06
  Mhmm. Are you enjoying your home? Your bank account.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Your ability to drive your car with your driver's license.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Your ability to sign off on medical things for your children without your husband's approval. Your ability to divorce your husband, should he become abusive or just annoying. Mhmm. All of these things are because of feminists.
• 24:23
  Yeah. Because strong women fought for them. You wouldn't have it without them. And yet you're standing there spitting in their faces. And so you've got people like Michelle Obama who are saying, no, we need to educate women because whatever choices you may make, you should do them from a a place of being educated, of being aware.
• 24:45
  You wanna be a stay at home mom? Be a stay at home mom. But do it from an educated space. Mhmm.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: And do it because that's the choice that you are making. Exactly. Not because it's a choice that the government told you you had to have or the church told you you had to have or your husband told you you had to have. Make it your choice.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Right. Another quote from her that I really like, and I think I posted to this to our TikTok this week. She says, when they go low, we go high.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. That was all over the place. Yeah. That was from her she was the first one to do something.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: That's good. That's helpful. Thank you.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: No. She was she was the first person to do something, and that's where that that speech came from. Alyssa.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we know what we're talking about. Other times, get this. And thankfully, you enjoyed that apparently.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. It comes from a speech that she delivered at the twenty sixteen Democratic National Convention.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: She said it while endorsing Hillary Clinton and reflecting on the tone of the twenty sixteen presidential campaign involve in specifically involving Donald Trump. Mhmm. She said our motto is when they go low, we go high.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I think that's so important because I'm seeing the difference between so many different, like, political races right now. We're looking at in The United States, midterm elections are coming up this November. And that means that a lot of congress seats are up. And and we're looking at what will happen. And there's a really contested race in Texas.
• 26:16
  They're going through the primaries right now. And it's between so for the Democratic party, it's between a man named James Talrico and a woman named Jasmine Crockett. And they are both amazing. Like, I'm sad that they can't both get the nomination and both become senators because I think that they both would do amazing things. And whoever if you're in Texas, whoever you're choosing to vote for in that primary, I think you're gonna make a good choice.
• 26:44
  I think they're both really cool. But what I love about that race is you're seeing them both be very supportive of the other person. Like, obviously, like, they're running against each other. They're not I I don't think they're, like, going to coffee together or anything. Holding pinkies.
• 27:00
  I don't think that's happening. But they are respectful. They are kind. They're both younger. So I think, hopefully, we're seeing a new generation of people that are like, maybe we should respect each other.
• 27:12
  But that's how they're running their campaigns. It's not hate. I I have seen some posts of, like, individual people hating on the other one. But from them, you're not seeing that kind of hate. And I hope that that's where they're, you know, they're coming from.
• 27:25
  They're pulling from this. We're gonna go high.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: We were talking about this earlier. At the inauguration Mhmm. Of Trump for this most recent presidency, there's a clip going around it went around of former president George Bush and Kamala Harris sitting together and chatting it up. And she is on record with saying she loves sitting by him at all these different conventions and, you know
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Events. Things. Yeah.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Because he he's a good time. Mhmm. She finds him funny, and she enjoys his company. And that's the difference is they are from one's Republican and one's Democrat. And in today's political climate, they should hate each other because that's the standard that Trump set up.
• 28:12
  Right. If you think differently than he does, he hates you. Mhmm. And you should hate him. But that's not always how it's been.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: No. There have been so many peaceful exchanges of power. Like, you if you look back, there haven't been, like, that many presidents since I was born. But if you do look back, there are plenty of times where we're switching from democrat to republican to republican to democrat, whatever. And they still will sit in the same room and laugh and smile with each other.
• 28:42
  They still will sign over, you know, documents and things like that and give advice and things. And then you look at what's happened since Trump era politics, and it is this absolute hate of each other.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Well, also, it's become, like, not just a a difference in politics, a disagreement in politics.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: It's morality. Right.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Your morals are different. Actually, so Brie and I filmed a TikTok, and it was basically this stat that said, like, 76% of women think that being a MAGA supporter is a deal breaker in a relationship. Mhmm. And people were big mad on that one too. But I got one comment, and the woman basically said, I don't care what politics someone has because someone's politics don't equal their morality.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And I would love for that to be true. Yes.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: And I think there was an era where that was true. Now, is it still hard to be in a relationship with someone whose politics are very different than yours? Sure. But I want that to be true. I want us to be able to disagree and still say your opinion is valuable and valid.
• 29:45
  Mhmm. But that's not where we live right now.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Right. I actually saw another TikTok where a guy was going around, I think it was like a college campus, and interviewing people on different things. And he went up to this woman and said, if you found out that you went on a date with someone and they voted for Trump, would you go out on a second date with them? Or would you go out on a date at all with them? And she said, nope.
• 30:09
  And he goes, wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Why?
• 30:11
  Mhmm. And she said, because the very fact that you voted for Trump, knowing especially, maybe not in the first election, but now knowing what we know now. Mhmm. You voted against me, specifically. You voted against my rights.
• 30:27
  You voted with hatred. Yeah. Not saying that you can't change your mind.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: And say, sorry. But she said that fact alone makes me very wary of that person, and I would not put myself in a situation where I would go out on a date with that person. Right.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: And I think in most previous elections, maybe not all. Like I said, like, I haven't been around for a ton of them.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: You have. Shut up. You've been alive forever. That's a BM song. A what?
• 30:58
  Barry Manilow.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: A bowel movement song? That's what I got from that. That's what they all bought.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Barry Manilow.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: No. But I think in previous elections, I would hope that most people wouldn't sit there and look at you and say, you voted wrong. You voted against me. I can't be around you because of your politics or something like that. I would hope that we would be able to do that.
• 31:23
  And yet again, that's not the case now. Mhmm. Because from top down, from president down, we're breeding hate. And you can see that with his social media posts. You can see that with countless other things versus what you look at with Michelle Obama.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: And she is spreading kindness, love, and empowerment. And those go together so beautifully because when you empower people, they become strong. They become loving towards others. And that's what we as Christians are called to do.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Her book, The Light We Carry, really focuses on that. I think she wrote it during the pandemic because that's a lot of what the beginning chapters are focusing on. But she speaks on how that's the whole purpose of the title is the light we carry. If we're full and strong and confident in ourselves and we can pass that on to someone else, that's important. And you can see that in her Netflix documentary too, just her speaking to she's just so wise.
• 32:26
  I just love her so much. Just like her little pearls of wisdom that she pours into everybody that she meets. Like, at her book signings, she very specifically looks right into their eyes and doesn't look around at everybody else, isn't thinking, oh, I'm so great. These people are crying because they wanna come see me. She's spending time with that individual person.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Remember the song from church?
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: This little light of mine. Do you want me to sing it?
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: No. Okay. Would would you like to? No. Did I did I dim your light just then?
• 33:00
  You did. I'm sorry. Let your light shine, Brie. Anyway,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: it basically says it's for kids.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: It's saying like, I'm gonna let my light shine for the world. It's specifically, I think, talking about hiding the fact that you're a Christian.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: But I think we should expand that because you've got people all over social media and, like, in their bios, they're like, God lover or, like, Christian wife or whatever. I don't think that's what God meant in the Bible.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: It says something along the lines of, know, they'll know you by your fruit. Mhmm. And the idea in that song is God inside of you is that light, and he's shining through. And you're gonna attract people through God's flashlight.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: But what is that light, I guess, is the question. That light is not just posting to your social media bio.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Love is an action. Mhmm. And if love is that light, then what are we doing? Mhmm. Because you're not attracting people by shaming them and saying that you're better than them and flaunting your privilege.
• 34:05
  What good is that? Mhmm. What good is that doing? Yeah. Is that a sentence?
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Sure. Well, one of the quotes from the vice president, JD Vance. Oh. I could use other names,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: but I won't at the moment. Maybe later. JD underpants.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: He was at a Turning Point USA event, which we have referenced before. It is Erica Kirk's organization. Truly an awful organization. But he got up and he said, you don't have to be ashamed to be white anymore in The United States. And I think that's exactly what he said, flaunting your privilege.
• 34:41
  You don't have to be ashamed that you have privilege anymore.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: That's also directly undermining everybody, you're right, who is not that color or came from trauma Mhmm. That we've put on people of other races. Right. Think about slavery. Think about what we're doing to immigrants now.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. And the reality is there are certain things that come with privilege. Is that right? No. But it is the truth.
• 35:08
  Like, the color of my skin comes with privilege. And so I need to use that privilege to fight for people who don't have the same privilege as me. Just like I expect men because they are born with the genitalia that they're born with, to fight to use their privilege to fight for people who don't have the same privilege. To fight for women. To fight for the LGBTQ community because they don't have the same privilege.
• 35:35
  And so the fact that you're standing up there and being like,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: you don't need to be ashamed anymore. Well, actually was born with privilege. Right. I'm not ashamed of the person that I am. However, you're right.
• 35:48
  My job is to show love to everybody. Right. And I do have privilege because I was born this way.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And I need to protect people who are not in my situation. Mhmm. And it's important to recognize that. It's important to recognize that all different things come with privilege. Your education level comes with privilege.
• 36:06
  And that's why Michelle Obama is fighting so hard for people of impoverished backgrounds, people that come from inner cities to have a
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: better education because that's a privilege. Well, because even where you're located
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: So in our area, the schools have a lot of funding.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: But if you're from a poor community, there's not as much funding. So even if you are going to school every day and doing your best, it's not gonna be the same as some other school who has as much funding. Yeah. So use your privilege for good. Let your light shine for good and love wherever you are.
• 36:44
  Michelle's approval rating is above her husband's. Did you know that? That doesn't surprise me. Like, I
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I like him too. Mhmm. But she's just spectacular. She's just her light's shining. I wanted to talk a little bit about some other first ladies as well because there were just a lot of things I didn't know.
• 37:02
  So I went back just a few first ladies, and I wanna talk about them. The first one is Jill Biden. And actually, let me correct myself. Doctor Jill Biden. Did you all know that?
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I did not know. I feel like people did know that,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: but you and I didn't. I did not. And to me, that says that it wasn't super covered in the media. Like, wasn't focused on. I'm sure it was a relatively well known fact, but I didn't know.
• 37:28
  Now she is a doctor of education. That is what she has her doctorate in. So she earned that in 2007. She taught for over thirty years, starting teaching in, like, 1976. And she was actually the first first lady to have a compensated position.
• 37:47
  So like a paid position that she was still working while she was the first lady. She continued teaching while still being the first lady, which I find so impressive. Like, her husband has this big thing going on. Right? She was the second lady and then was the first lady.
• 38:03
  So there's a lot happening. Mhmm. But he didn't need to outshine her. She still had her own stuff. She still went.
• 38:12
  She still taught. She was teaching at a university level. And I just think that's amazing when it comes to talking about her priorities. She did not let him take over her life. Mhmm.
• 38:26
  She did her own thing. She lived her own life. She got her own education. Now she did get some backlash, which is wild and hilarious and horrifying all at the same time for using the title doctor. Because obviously she was in the media a lot.
• 38:41
  They gave her backlash for using the title doctor because she wasn't a medical doctor. But she received her doctorate time, so she definitely can use that title. And I wanna read some quotes from her real quick because I just think I never heard about her really ever at all. And yet what an amazing figure she was. Maybe a controversial figure, but an amazing woman.
• 39:05
  One of my favorite quotes from her is I'm not a politician. I'm an English teacher. And then I just think that's so cool because so many of the first ladies leading up to this, their husband's job was their world. And I'm going talk about Laura Bush in a minute, and she was kind of more that figure. But Jill Biden didn't do that.
• 39:27
  She said, this is not my thing. I'm here. I'm supportive. Love my husband. But this is not my thing.
• 39:34
  I have my thing. She also said education is possibility set in motion. She did a lot of education initiatives. She works towards women's education, towards literacy, a lot of literacy funding and things like that. And just was just impressive.
• 39:52
  And why aren't we talking about that? That she she in and of herself was impressive and also would have been a great president.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think so often the role of the first lady, And you can see that in the book becoming a pastor's wife as well. Kind of how that role is meant to just kind of like melt into your husband, stand in his shadow. You're not the important one. But it's important that he has you there because a single man would be questionable.
• 40:25
  But you don't necessarily get an opportunity to show who you are as an individual person
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: In that role.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now lest you think that we're only gonna talk about Democratic women Oh, lest you think. I think it's important to show that the current administration is very different from past administrations Because we'll talk about Laura Bush. She was the wife of George Bush junior, who was the president back
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: when I was very young. During 09/11. So, like, 2001 Yeah.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Time. Now she was also a very impressive woman. I think she took more of that traditional role. People saw her and they saw the woman who stands in the background, the woman who supports her husband. But that wasn't all that she was.
• 41:17
  She not only had her bachelor's degree in education, she also had a master's degree in library sciences from the University of Texas. She taught in public schools. She worked as a school librarian. And then she went on to do some really impressive stuff. She helped establish the National Book Festival, which
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: we love over here. We love a book. I don't know if you've heard.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: But she co founded that with the Library of Congress in 2001. So that's, like, a big deal. Mhmm. It's still a big event that they do. She also helped establish the Ready to Read, Ready to Learn initiative, which was helping ensure that children entered school ready to go.
• 41:56
  Things like helping them learn to read, helping them with early math, those foundational things.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: The alphabet, spelling their name. Right.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: And so she knew these were important because she had her own experience. She had her own life, and she knew what she wanted to fight for. She was also an honorary ambassador for the United Nations Literacy Decade. She has a foundation for libraries now. And she also went abroad.
• 42:20
  So this is what I think is really cool. So after September 11, which if you're not US based, was a very big deal in The United States. It's when two planes, it was a terrorist attack, hit the Twin Towers in New York City. And some of you actually might be too young to remember that. I don't know.
• 42:37
  I think I was nine when that happened. But she, after that, instead of what a lot of American people did was hate on the Middle East and become very racist against Middle Eastern individuals, she went to Afghanistan and fought for women's rights. She was the first first lady to give a weekly radio address, and she went back and forth many times. She continued to fight for women's rights. And she also headed the US Afghan Women's Council that promoted educational opportunities for women and girls.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I think that's so interesting too because if you've seen these photos going around on social media, they'll say Afghan women look at women in power in, like, the seventies. And their hair was showing. They were looking just like you and I, and then see how far it goes. Like, if you take a little bit of their rights, and take a little bit of their rights, and take a little bit of their rights. Now Afghan women are not allowed to show, like, any part of their body.
• 43:35
  Right? They're totally under male dictatorship. Mhmm.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: And that's why we fight so hard because we're looking at the world around us. And I do feel like this podcast has become a lot more political of late. But I think it's important that we do because I'm looking at not just The United States, but the world not valuing women even at the same level that it was ten years ago. And it's just little bits. You take away little bits and little bits, and then we're in The Handmaid's Tale.
• 44:06
  Yeah. And I'm just not prepared for that.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Did you know there's, like, a Handmaid's Tale? I don't know if it's a play or a musical.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: It's an opera. I saw it. I saw it advertised. It's coming to Detroit.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: It's an
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: opera. It's an opera.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: That frightens me.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But that all being said, she was an important individual and yet on the other side of the political spectrum. So I think it's important to look at women, not for who they are in politics, not for only who they are in politics, but for their fruit, what they have given the world. Casually, she
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: was a Republican woman, and she fought for libraries. Right? And didn't our current administration wanna cut all the funding for libraries? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 44:46
  Yeah.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Okay. Now I think it's important to contrast this to Melania Trump. Now I don't wanna hate on women. I don't like that. That's not a thing I have a good time doing.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Unless it's certain specific women
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: that we hate on. I think it's important to look at the role that these women have played, how much they did for the world versus what's going on right now. And you can certainly argue that our current first lady has not been allowed to do many things. You can certainly argue that she has been pigeonholed. I don't know.
• 45:25
  I'm not sitting in those rooms to be able to tell you that. But what I can tell you is that the Melania documentary just came out. Amazon paid an absolutely insane amount of money for the rights to it, and it is arguable that they did that because they are now getting political favors, allegedly, for that purchase. And when it came out, I did not watch it, but I did watch a decent amount of content about it. And most people have said that it was very surface level.
• 45:53
  It was supposed to be the, I think, twenty days leading up to the election and her experience. But it's basically his story told through her lens. She does talk a little bit about her childhood. There's a segment on her being an immigrant because she is an immigrant who became a naturalized citizen, I think in 2006. And so she tells a little bit of her immigrant story.
• 46:17
  And I watched some content on that, and they were like, it's just deeply insulting. Because there's a difference between the immigrant story of a white person and a brown person. People from Europe and people with white skin often have a much easier time immigrating into The United States. And that's her experience. She was a model.
• 46:40
  You know, she's beautiful, whatever.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: She came from Novo Mesto, Slovenia.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: And she was a very successful model. And she had a relatively easy time of coming into The United Obviously, very easy time getting her citizenship. Her education. And I'm not bringing this up to shame her in any way. Everyone has different education levels, but I do think it's important because we did give the education levels of some of the other She went to the secondary school of design and photography.
• 47:08
  And then she studied architecture and design at university, but left after about a year to pursue modeling. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. There's just a difference there. And you can see that. She has done some things as first lady.
• 47:20
  There is a program that she launched in 2018 called Be Best, and that was a public awareness campaign centered on, like, children's well-being, online bullying, social emotional health, which she has gotten a lot of criticism for based on her husband's cyberbullying.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It people have said
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: it feels very self serving. It doesn't make a lot of sense because it's very easy to see Donald Trump cyberbullying everyone on the planet. Yeah. That was odd. And also kind of like, it wasn't a campaign to change things or to do anything, but just sort of like
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Make aware.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Cyber bullying exists. And here's an example. He sits next to me at dinner. My husband, who's twenty four years older than me. She backed legislation in 2025, and it's called the Take It Down Act, which is focused on things like revenge porn and digital safety.
• 48:17
  Also ironic considering the Epstein files. Just odd. Like, odd. Right? There's one thing she worked on called fostering the future, and that's been a relatively controversial thing.
• 48:29
  It opened, again, just sort of awareness to fostering and foster children. But the organization that she worked with allowed funding for organizations that excluded LGBTQ individuals. And so basically the government was funding organizations that said only certain types of people can foster children. Everything comes with conditions.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: And so that's a big issue.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: And I think it's important to say that her role has been more awareness than active help. Mhmm. And I think that reflects in the Christian church, too. I have been to so many churches that are like, oh, we need to pray for the community. We need to pray for those in poverty.
• 49:21
  We need to pray for those who aren't as fortunate as we are, etcetera, etcetera. But nothing's actually being done. We're not actually taking a step. Mhmm. Because goodness and kindness isn't thoughts and prayers.
• 49:34
  It's prayers and actions. You can still pray for them, but do a thing. Take a step. And that is the difference that I see between our current first lady and these former first ladies that I talked about is thoughts and prayers versus prayers and actions.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: There has been some backlash about her being more quiet
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: And not showing up to different events and being selective over what initiatives she wants to back. But I think, again, it leads back to women can't do anything right.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. For sure.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Because you look at Michelle Obama, and she was criticized for being too aware. Too strong. Too strong. Being too educated. Speaking up too much.
• 50:17
  And then you have the direct opposite where you have Melania, who doesn't say a lot, and she's criticized for that too. So it's like women can't do anything right. Mhmm.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: We can't win. And I like I said, I don't wanna criticize her too too much because, obviously, she's not the center of the issue
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: at this point. No. But she is complicit with an issue.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: She is. Actually, there was a lot of stories out, and I can't say this is true. So allegedly, allegedly, when Donald Trump ran against Kamala Harris, she was not going to be involved. Melania was not going to be involved. Whether that was because she was gonna divorce him or she was not gonna go on the campaign trail, I'm not sure.
• 50:58
  But she was not going to be involved. And in order to get her to be involved, they changed their prenup. So she basically said, I'll be involved if you give me more money if we get divorced. Mhmm. Now, again, allegedly, I don't know that that is confirmed.
• 51:16
  But
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: it's just it's notable.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: It's something to talk about.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: I also think, like, just being around the conservative Christian people
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: There is a lot of talk about first ladies.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of admiration for first ladies. But it's never about their causes that they lead. It's never about their education. It's usually about their fashion and their appearance.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: And so the Christian church loves Melania Mhmm.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Because she is beautiful.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: She is. She has really cool fashion. Has good hat choices, which serve a purpose. The hats are interesting. They serve a purpose.
• 51:56
  So that she doesn't have to look at him? She doesn't have to get close. It's like a bubble.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Maybe I should get one of those. Big hat.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: But it's just an interesting stance. Like, she she married a man that's twenty four years her senior. And I don't know what her religious views are, but she's not outwardly like, I'm a Christian.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: It's just interesting who we choose as the Christian church to champion. Mhmm.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we should look at people for who they really are. And people will tell you who they are. People will show you who they are. Believe them.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Michelle Obama shows us who she is through her work, through what she stands up for, through her books. She shows us who she is. Believe her and say that's someone that I would want my daughter to be like. That's someone I would want my friends to be like. That's someone I want society to be like.
• 52:56
  Mhmm. So maybe I should respect her a little bit more. Yeah. Give her some credit. And many of these women that we talked about, give them credit.
• 53:05
  Look at them as powerful, strong women,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: and say, gee, why are
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: we not electing powerful, strong women? Because we should. We need to.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Also, just like casually, just a little end note, little punch. Statistically, the happiest country in the world is Iceland. All female government. Yeah. We need to move.
• 53:27
  Iceland, how do
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: you feel about taking on two very feminist girls and their families? Yep. One family. It's really one family. Come from the same family.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Just one big family. Yeah. And we'll contribute, and we won't cause a fuss. No.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: But we will continue podcasting.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. From Iceland. It will
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: be colder. But, you know, it's pretty cold here. Alright. So next week, are gonna be talking more about the Olympics. Obviously, we led with it a little bit.
• 53:53
  But I think the Olympics often bring up the topic of women in sports and what the expectations are for women in sports, what we admire about women who go into sports.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Also, something that's noteworthy is, like, women's sportsmanship. Mhmm. That's been really highlighted this year, this season. I don't know what you call it with sports.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: This sports time. This sports time. Yeah. This is gonna be an exciting episode because I don't know if you guys have noticed, but, like, we don't know anything about sports at all. So buckle up.
• 54:27
  We are gonna talk about it. So tune in next week.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Happy day,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: and a happy night to those of you who celebrate. Goodbye. Love you. Bye.