Latest / Making Cents / Kiwis Want Time More Than Money: Here’s Why

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Kiwis Want Time More Than Money: Here’s Why · Making Cents

• 0:00
  Nearly half of us would accept getting paid less just to get more time back in our lives.
• 0:06
  Not more stuff, not a bigger house, just time.
• 0:12
  And yet in reality, we're getting squeezed on both fronts with both less money and less time.
• 0:20
  New research from Global Fintech, Revolut and YouGov found 44% of us would take a pay cut in exchange for one extra day off every week.
• 0:29
  But nearly 6 in tech new Zealanders say they actually work overtime, and 30% are getting nothing extra for it in our spare time.
• 0:40
  Budgeting and staying within budget eats up more of our free time than anything else.
• 0:45
  32% say it's their biggest time drain.
• 0:49
  Okay, that's a bunch of depressing numbers.
• 0:51
  What did Georgia Grange, chief operating officer at Revolut New Zealand, think when she saw them?
• 0:56
  Kiwis are giving up their mental health there, time with family, their rest, their sleep at the expense of working harder.
• 1:04
  So how much of this can we fix ourselves?
• 1:07
  And how much of it is bigger than us?
• 1:09
  I do think we should be trying to encourage more workplaces to be focused on the output rather than being tracked on sitting at my desk from 9 to 5.
• 1:18
  Welcome to Making Sense.
• 1:19
  It's the podcast people who want financial freedom without giving up their coffee.
• 1:23
  I'm Frances Cook, a financial journalist and fellow financial freedom seeker who makes money simple for you today.
• 1:30
  Why so many of us want time.
• 1:33
  Over money and what's getting in the way.
• 1:37
  This episode of Making Sense is supported by Revolut, the app that helps your money go further at home and your travel budget go further overseas.
• 1:45
  I want to help as many people as possible build a better life for themselves by understanding and taking control of their money.
• 1:52
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• 1:54
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• 2:00
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• 2:03
  Then we can all level up with money together.
• 2:05
  The show grows, and I can keep bringing you the money info that actually moves the dial.
• 2:11
  Welcome Georgia.
• 2:12
  Thank you so much for coming back on the pod.
• 2:14
  You put out some.
• 2:15
  Well, your company put out some really great research.
• 2:20
  I found it fascinating in terms of how we're splitting our money and our time.
• 2:26
  Tell me, what was the big headline takeaway from it for you?
• 2:29
  We found that six out of 10 Kiwis were working over time in terms of more contractual hours than what they'd initially set out for, and 30% of those Kiwis are also not being financially compensated for that in terms
• 2:44
  of their work.
• 2:45
  So that was a little bit surprising, but not massively surprising.
• 2:49
  What then I found particularly surprising and a bit upsetting was that then those that with their spare time, 32% are spending majority of that on budgeting and managing their finances.
• 3:01
  And so whilst I love to hear that Kiwis are focusing on their finances and trying to grow their wealth and being cognizant of how they're spending their money, that's also far too much of their spare time which should
• 3:13
  be spent having fun and spending time with loved ones and whnau and friends rather than budgeting and spreadsheets.
• 3:21
  I look at it and it feels like a little bit of an indicator on what's happening with the economy and the business world more generally.
• 3:27
  And what do you think?
• 3:28
  Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a reflection, I'd say in terms of businesses are trying to squeeze more out of less and in this case the employees are bearing the brunt of it when we're looking at these stats, which is
• 3:43
  quite upsetting and alarming I think, when it comes to another shift on the employee side as well.
• 3:51
  What has been typically seen as a hard working day, being 9 to 5 at your desk, that is obviously slipping away a little bit.
• 4:00
  There's a bit more of an expectation to be always online or available because we've got all of these digital tools and it's not like you can just, you know, my first job there was a phone at my desk
• 4:10
  and if I answered that then I was there and if I didn't answer that then I was not at my desk and it was as simple as that.
• 4:15
  So I, I think there's a few shifts in terms of both the employer's expectations and yeah, trying to get more out of less.
• 4:22
  But then employees looking at different ways of working and different expectations and how they want to structure their days.
• 4:30
  Now that we do have these digital tools and what have you available, how can we think about work in a different way?
• 4:36
  And I think some of these facts are trying to push that what our employees looking for outside of a typical 9 to 5 as well.
• 4:45
  Yeah, and I think that's a really good point you make there in terms of the way that these tools and technologies have changed things.
• 4:51
  I mean there's, there's so many upsides.
• 4:53
  Right.
• 4:53
  I mean the fact that we're having this conversation and how people will watch and listen to it is, is, is brilliant and not what we used to do in terms of consuming media.
• 5:02
  But you know, there's, there's all these other things in terms of being always reachable, always on.
• 5:07
  That's hard.
• 5:08
  Right.
• 5:08
  And I think money and time are two of our most valuable resources.
• 5:12
  And here we see people basically getting squeezed on both.
• 5:15
  Right, exactly.
• 5:17
  And you know, we're definitely more present and cognizant around things like mental health.
• 5:22
  And one of the other things that we saw come through the research, which was really alarming, is that Kiwis are giving up their feel like they're giving up their mental health, their time with family, their rest, their sleep
• 5:36
  at the expense of working harder.
• 5:38
  And yes, obviously that is something that we want to address and we really want to help with and making sure that there are tools available to help with that spare time where we can have an impact.
• 5:51
  Making budgeting and making finances a whole lot easier is obviously one area that we can try and double down on to help with that spare time.
• 6:00
  But overall, how can we also help businesses get more out of their day and their people and their budgeting so they're not spending time on that is another element of it.
• 6:12
  So yeah, there's things that we can do to help.
• 6:14
  But I think at the end of the day, the bottom line is that Kiwis are being squeezed in their spare time and it's not.
• 6:20
  Not what we'd like to see.
• 6:21
  Well, yeah, another thing that really stuck out to me is that people would actually say, yeah, I'd give up some salary to have time back.
• 6:30
  44% of Kiwis would trade part of their salary for an extra day off every week.
• 6:35
  It's so interesting to me because we've had the debate around the four day workweek for such a long time now.
• 6:39
  I mean, it's fairly well established that doesn't hurt productivity.
• 6:42
  And yet here we are still debating it and people still saying, yeah, I'd give up some salary, can I please have some time back?
• 6:49
  What do you think in terms of the way that this conversation, we keep circling back to these issues and yet not actually moving on and making changes.
• 6:56
  Yeah, I thought it was so fascinating as well with the four day pace and that I think it was 65% of 18 to 24 year olds were willing to give up some of their salary for time and take
• 7:09
  a day less work.
• 7:11
  But we saw that drop to 33% for those, I think it was 45 to 54 year olds.
• 7:17
  And so we're also seeing a generational divide there.
• 7:20
  And so I guess at the end of the day it is probably more of that demographic, the older demographic in that bracket who are probably the ones managing this type of work week for some of our younger generation
• 7:32
  who are the ones who are a bit more eager for it.
• 7:34
  So it will be very interesting to see if that starts to shift as we see some of our Gen Z and Millennial come up through leadership and if they're wanting to try different ways and make sure we're giving
• 7:46
  that a really good go in New Zealand, it will be really fascinating to see.
• 7:50
  But I also think that reflects what those generations value as well.
• 7:55
  I think what we're seeing is those 18 to 24 year olds, they've grown up potentially watching older demographics with strain of work and the grind and that being chained to desk from 9 to 5 type style hasn't necessarily
• 8:13
  worked.
• 8:14
  We've seen a whole lot of studies around people not being happy.
• 8:16
  Mental health is obviously needing to become more of a focus and all of that.
• 8:20
  Whereas if we think about our younger demographics and where they're spending their time, they're also seeing online different types of work.
• 8:28
  You know, we can all see what's a day in the life of so and so in this job and how does that give them flexibility if it means they can go for a walk in the middle of the
• 8:36
  day or can start late and go to Pilates in the morning and things like that.
• 8:40
  And so I also think the younger demographics are seeing different opportunities of work structures and how you fit work and play all into the one day.
• 8:50
  That's such a good point in terms of that value split and who's in the management position.
• 8:56
  I hadn't quite made that link myself.
• 8:59
  I think that's very insightful.
• 9:02
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• 10:09
  If people are starting from the individual level and thinking, okay, I've got to manage my money, there's a cost of living crisis.
• 10:15
  Mints is insane.
• 10:18
  How do we make it a little bit easier, a little bit less time consuming to be managing those dollars so you get some of that free time back?
• 10:28
  First things first, we should be looking to automate how the income is managed once it comes in.
• 10:35
  So do we need to put a certain amount aside for our transport, our petrol costs, our rent or mortgage payments, our supermarket and bills and what have you?
• 10:45
  I think that automation needs to come first because that is so easy to set up and once it's done, it's done.
• 10:50
  You don't need to worry about that and you don't need to spend time popping that into your spreadsheet each week.
• 10:54
  I think then secondly, we then need to do the same in terms of automations, but more for savings and building that wealth.
• 11:01
  So do you need to be thinking about putting a spare change roundup where an extra cent of everything that you spend goes into a different pocket towards putting money for a trip or commodities like gold or silver or
• 11:15
  what have you?
• 11:15
  What are some of those automations that you can do to help build your wealth?
• 11:19
  And then thirdly, it's thinking about how do we structure notifications and spending habits.
• 11:26
  And so if I know I don't want to spend more than $30 of coffee on coffee a week, then I want to have a notification that says hey Georgia, you're at 25, let's, let's be careful, things like that.
• 11:39
  Or I might set up automations that then mean my card won't work once I tip over that $30 in the coffee and cafe space as well.
• 11:48
  So there's disposable cards, so there's something like subscriptions where I know personally I used to spend a lot of time on my budget looking through each month.
• 11:58
  Okay, cool, where are these subscriptions going?
• 12:00
  Which one is for which?
• 12:01
  On my Apple pay or after pay or what have you and figuring out what ones should I keep, what can I strip back on?
• 12:08
  If I'm using a disposable card then the transfer goes through for that month and then it won't go through again, which is a beautiful way to make sure it's sorted.
• 12:17
  Exactly.
• 12:18
  And then if I needed that subscription and oh no, my Netflix login isn't working, I'm like, okay, cool, I needed that one.
• 12:23
  And we need to make sure that that continues.
• 12:25
  But that is also another good tip to try and manage and automate a bit more of like where your spending is going.
• 12:32
  So, yeah, really focusing on what's coming in, where is it going in terms of savings and then how are you managing it throughout the month as well is really helpful.
• 12:40
  100%.
• 12:41
  This is the thing, there's downsides to technology.
• 12:44
  It's really easy for us to see the downsides of technology, like you say, these things creeping into our spare time, always being on.
• 12:50
  But if we're going to have all these things and we're going to, we do live in a more digital world, we do live in a world where we're talking to each other all the time, then let's use the
• 12:59
  good bits of it too.
• 13:00
  And I do think, like banking has come so far, we have all of these automatic things that we can do.
• 13:07
  We have these little alerts that can pop up, use it, I mean, set it up once and it keeps working for you.
• 13:14
  Right.
• 13:14
  It's, it's.
• 13:15
  You've just got to make use of the good sides of the technology as well.
• 13:19
  Yeah, exactly.
• 13:21
  And I mean, the same thing goes for businesses, too.
• 13:23
  All of these tools exist for businesses.
• 13:25
  And if we've got some wizard in our finance team who are working on these types of manual reconciliations on a daily basis, why don't we save them some time in terms of the overworked data that we're seeing and
• 13:38
  we can automate a whole lot of that for them as well.
• 13:41
  And then they can focus on the good stuff of like, okay, cool, how do we strategically move forward as a business?
• 13:45
  So I think those types of tips and tricks don't necessarily only have to apply for us as consumers, but can also be for businesses and managing their money as well.
• 13:57
  When it comes to setting employee, potentially you've got employees who need to have cards or they need to spend on behalf of the business.
• 14:05
  We can also set it up so that.
• 14:07
  Okay, cool.
• 14:08
  But personally, I know if I've got to work hard, if I go and try and spend something at the iconic clothing, it's going to decline.
• 14:15
  I'm not able to spend it on clothing.
• 14:18
  It needs to be on transport or food.
• 14:20
  Yeah, damn.
• 14:21
  Damn for me, but good for my boss.
• 14:24
  So as things like that that we can think about in terms of spending, making sure that all of the analytics is there, it's really easy to digest in terms of tracking where the money has gone.
• 14:35
  And then also there's all these automations that go straight into Xero as well.
• 14:39
  So the accounting side of it is all automated and seamless for you.
• 14:43
  You don't have to lift a finger.
• 14:45
  I love that.
• 14:45
  And what do you think?
• 14:47
  We've got these stats in terms of the 32% of your free time getting taken up on budgeting.
• 14:53
  Ruthless.
• 14:55
  What do you think good money management actually looks like in practice?
• 15:00
  Because it's going to take a certain amount of time.
• 15:01
  Right.
• 15:02
  How much time do you think is reasonable?
• 15:05
  Personally, I would say like 10 to 15 minutes a week would be the ideal to make sure that you're across what's going on.
• 15:13
  You are comfortable with where it's going, but you're not stressing about it.
• 15:18
  It's not a weight on your shoulders and it's not the number one thing that you're spending your spare time on.
• 15:23
  A red flag of what it doesn't look like is dread.
• 15:27
  That you don't want to be sitting there thinking, it's Sunday afternoon.
• 15:30
  I still haven't looked at that.
• 15:31
  I still haven't done my tracking.
• 15:33
  And then it feels like you're starting your week on Sunday night in a spreadsheet where.
• 15:38
  No, no, no, save that.
• 15:40
  Save that type of angst for another time.
• 15:42
  It should not be on your budgeting and it shouldn't be in your weekends.
• 15:46
  In your spare time that it should be spent with friends and family.
• 15:48
  So, yeah, I think what it looks like is it's.
• 15:51
  It's invisible, it's automated.
• 15:54
  You're not thinking about it 24 7.
• 15:57
  It's not weighing you down, but you've got enough data that's making sure that you're cognizant of where it's going, you feel in control and you're not dreading it.
• 16:08
  If your budgeting is giving you the Sunday scaries, massive red flag, 100%.
• 16:13
  And I think also that massive red flag if you don't have the tools where, you know this is feasible, like, have a look at what you've got going on.
• 16:21
  And have a look if there's other pieces out there that can help.
• 16:24
  Okay, if someone's listening to this and they're thinking, oh, that sounds uncomfortably close to what I am living.
• 16:30
  I am feeling short on money and time, what do you think would be one thing?
• 16:35
  You've had some great tips in this interview, but if you had to drill it down to just one, that could really help move the dial for people this week, what do you think is a big thing that a
• 16:44
  lot of people overlook?
• 16:45
  Automating the savings side, making sure you've got your emergency savings, your building towards your wealth.
• 16:54
  The rest of it can be managed in terms of your, your bills and your play money.
• 16:58
  Yeah.
• 16:58
  And what about in terms of sort of the bigger zoom out picture?
• 17:01
  Do you think there's anything that we should be asking for change, working together for in terms of a bigger social change that's reflected in what we've seen here?
• 17:10
  For the businesses side, I do think we should be trying to encourage more workplaces to be focused on the outputs rather than being tracked on sitting at my desk from 9 to 5, or in this case potentially 9
• 17:22
  till 9.
• 17:23
  It shouldn't just be about presenteeism, it should be about what are the outputs and how are we going to move this business forward in an efficient way and pushing for more leaders in New Zealand that are going to
• 17:34
  embrace that and if you can do an awesome job and you achieve what you need to achieve for the team in six hours, then that's fantastic.
• 17:42
  Enjoy the rest of the time.
• 17:43
  Like celebrate that for employees.
• 17:46
  It's also, yeah, making sure that we are pushing for more players in the financial space.
• 17:53
  So yes, Revolut is one of them.
• 17:55
  But the more products and more financial apps and financial players that we have that are thinking about this from a.
• 18:03
  How does this experience genuinely help uplift Kiwis lives?
• 18:07
  Like, the better it's going to be.
• 18:09
  So yeah, driving for more competition in finance and fintech and banking is another piece, I think from a, from a social shift that we should all be pushing for.
• 18:19
  Oh my God, you're so speaking my language.
• 18:21
  Like cosign all of that.
• 18:24
  The idea of presenteeism really drives me crazy when it's measured on how long you're in by your desk.
• 18:30
  And I think it's well established that especially in New Zealand, we have not had enough competition for a long time and that has meant we've fallen behind.
• 18:37
  Like I'm so excited for when we see things like open banking coming in finally and we see new players like yourselves coming into the space and pushing this innovation, I just think it works out better for everyone.
• 18:49
  We're in a capitalist society.
• 18:51
  Competition is how that all works and how we all push forwards.
• 18:54
  It's a good thing, 100% with the new generations coming up as well.
• 18:58
  If we're all going to be focused on presenteeism, people aren't going to be wanting to do the work.
• 19:03
  All these new generations are growing up with all these different types of roles that just didn't exist before.
• 19:09
  And so, yeah, working at the desk from 9 to 5 isn't necessarily their dream anymore.
• 19:15
  And I think leaders and businesses need to wake up to that.
• 19:18
  How do we make sure that we're engaging younger demographics and making sure it's a great place to work as well as helping our businesses move forward?
• 19:26
  So, yeah, it's going to be a very interesting next 10 years, I'd say.
• 19:29
  Oh, I think so.
• 19:30
  Yeah, I think we're seeing a huge amount of change in this.
• 19:33
  But yeah, if you even just think about how much more energy people bring to their work when they feel appreciated, when they feel like they are seen as a whole person, I really do think that is how you'll
• 19:44
  get a small minority of people who try to take advantage, maybe, but vast majority of people, I think when, when they feel appreciated and they feel looked after.
• 19:54
  If you want to be really cynical about it, it's good business sense because people then work harder.
• 19:59
  You know, if the only reason we're going to do this is out of self interest, well, it's a smart business move too.
• 20:03
  But thank you so much.
• 20:04
  It's been a great chat and really, really enjoyed reading this research.
• 20:08
  Fascinating stuff.
• 20:08
  Georgia Grange from Revolut now, if this episode was helpful to you, send it to a friend.
• 20:13
  Maybe we'll start the revolution together.
• 20:15
  Until next time, have a great day.
• 20:19
  This podcast can only give you general information about how things work in most situations.
• 20:24
  It's not individual financial advice.
• 20:27
  If you're after that, a financial advisor is always the best bet.