Latest / Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries / Episode 40. Chris Ruli, Historian and Author

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Episode 40. Chris Ruli, Historian and Author · Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries

• 0:20
  hi everyone, welcome back.
• 0:21
  My name is Reed Endersby.
• 0:22
  You are listening to Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries.
• 0:27
  Very honored to be joined today by Chris Ruhle, historian and author on Freemasonry.
• 0:34
  Chris is an historian and researcher on early American Freemasonry and its often overlooked relationship with politics and culture.
• 0:42
  A former grand historian and librarian, Rooley leads efforts to digitize and disseminate Masonic research and strengthen academic approaches to studying Freemasonry.
• 0:53
  He is the author of The White House and the Freemasons, and also the upcoming book, I believe it'll be out in September, Brother Lafayette.
• 1:01
  Rooley's work is featured in other prints and popular media, including the Washington Post.
• 1:06
  History Channel and numerous history focused podcasts.
• 1:10
  He is an executive board member of the country's leading Masonic research institutions, the Scottish Rite Research Society, and the Philolathes Society, where he serves as associate editor and third vice president, respectively.
• 1:25
  He's also a contributing member of the Historical Society of Washington, D.
• 1:30
  C.
• 1:31
  Brother Chris, welcome.
• 1:33
  Thank you, Brother Reid.
• 1:34
  I'm so pleased to be with you today and to talk to you about um, Sonic History and all this great stuff that you've been doing.
• 1:41
  Well, thank you so much.
• 1:42
  Now, you and I met in person last year at the Biennial Conference of the Scottish Rite, and I felt like I was, I hope I didn't, wasn't too much of a fan because I've been a big fan of your work and your writing and the, the work that you do with Brother Maynard on the Scottish Rite podcast.
• 1:58
  And boy, the biennial was a lot of fun.
• 2:00
  I can't believe that's been a year ago already, but after hearing a little bit about your bio, tell us a little bit more about you, where you grow up, and maybe what led you to pursue Freemasonry.
• 2:13
  Sure, and I'm actually surprised it's only been a year.
• 2:16
  I feel like I've met you, I've known you for a couple more years, three or four years.
• 2:22
  I guess that's just how much fun, uh, we have with each other, and how great times it is sharing fraternal relationships with you.
• 2:29
  Um, I am a Freemason from D.
• 2:33
  C.
• 2:34
  Originally, I was initiated in D.
• 2:36
  C.
• 2:37
  But, uh, I knew about Freemasonry a lot earlier than that.
• 2:41
  I, uh, I was originally, um, I was raised in New Jersey and went to school, college, the whole works in New Jersey.
• 2:50
  And then when I got my first, you know, real big time job, I moved to D.
• 2:54
  C.
• 2:55
  for that.
• 2:55
  And so when I came down to D.
• 2:57
  C., I didn't really know a lot of people.
• 3:00
  I was familiar with Freemasonry through an old teacher of mine back in high school who Only once a month he would wear a masonic ring and he was a trumpet player He was a music teacher and he would play trumpet and I would see a masonic ring on but I would only see it like once a month and I was always curious about what the heck is he involved in and what are the masons and all that stuff and so Unfortunately, I never really pursued my interest in through masonry back then But when I moved down to dc for work, I didn't really know a lot of people dc has this sort of aura of history and You know, Freemasonry and national politics.
• 3:39
  And so I, uh, was looking for friends and folks who shared my same interests.
• 3:46
  And then I applied for, to a lodge in D.
• 3:49
  C.
• 3:50
  And then it's just been fun ever since.
• 3:51
  I've gotten involved in the archives.
• 3:54
  I then met, you know, joined the Scottish Rite and got involved in the archives at the House of the Temple.
• 4:01
  Uh, became an affiliate member of Alexandria, Washington, number 22 in Virginia, and so I had an opportunity to work on their archives at the memorial over there in Alexandria.
• 4:12
  And so it's just been a fun experience.
• 4:14
  Opportunity.
• 4:14
  I, I, I sort of, uh, I'm a statistician, a healthcare statistician by background, and so oftentimes, um, you know, people are sort of shocked, oh, I thought you're a writer, or you, you, you do history, or perhaps, you know, you're in some sort of educational field.
• 4:31
  No, I'm, I, you know, I'm in mathematics and statistics, but I just love history.
• 4:37
  I find that it's my fun hobby that I do after work, the things that I enjoy.
• 4:43
  So, you know, I, I hope that covers part of that question that you had to read.
• 4:48
  And I look forward to more questions on it.
• 4:50
  It certainly does.
• 4:51
  And I think it's safe to say that you have clearly one of the coolest jobs in the craft and Freemasonry to have access.
• 5:00
  To the archives that you do and a lot of the things you featured on the YouTube channel with yourself and or Maynard on some of the historical video footage of the dedication of that building and was it 1915 among many, many other things I did.
• 5:17
  Failed to mention.
• 5:18
  Yes.
• 5:18
  Professionally, your background is in statistics, international public health, a focus on tracking and preventing infectious diseases.
• 5:27
  You've been a busy guy in the last couple of years and a graduate of Columbia university school of international and public affairs and a return to Peace Corps volunteer.
• 5:36
  Uh, how, how, how does your background, I don't know if it did it launched.
• 5:41
  Did it, was it, uh, affected in 2020 and pandemic and some of those.
• 5:47
  Fun things that we've navigated.
• 5:49
  Yeah.
• 5:50
  My wife likes to say that business has been booming the last couple of years for me, um, being in an infectious disease statistician is really funny because when you go to these Masonic conferences and, and if you have an opportunity, and I, I certainly am privileged to have an opportunity to speak to many Masons and many audiences, I often tell them, uh, you know, my background and then all of a sudden, no one wants to shake my hand after my presentation.
• 6:16
  So I certainly understand why.
• 6:18
  And I don't take any offense to it.
• 6:21
  Uh, but yeah, I mean, you know, look, I mean, statistics, mathematics, you know, one of my you know, mentors, guys I look up to is, you know, Brent Morris who himself, he's a statistician, he's a mathematician, actually.
• 6:34
  Uh, and that was his background.
• 6:36
  He got a PhD in math, and he is one of the smartest masons I know and, and, and I think that, To be quite frankly with you, I think, I think there's, I think there's a weird thing in our both of our brains and I think maybe in mathematics and medicine, there's this sort of like, uh, discipline on trying to figure out very complicated things and trying to explain them in a very simple way.
• 7:00
  And so that's sort of why I think I appreciate you.
• 7:03
  The Masonic or the stuff that I've been doing in a Masonic context because there's, I mean, I'm sure as you can appreciate Masonry, ritual, all this stuff is seems very complicated when you take a look at the entire thing But you have to, there's I think a certain skill related to making it simple, trying to communicate it to someone and even if you're not Really interested in math or science And you're a ritualist and perhaps you you're the guy that in your lodge you confer the ritual You're you're you're, you know, let's say like the middle chamber lecture, for example.
• 7:39
  I'm not sure if minnesota does the middle chamber If they do It's a very complicated, long story, and you're trying to explain it to someone in a very simple way.
• 7:49
  So I think, I think, inherently, even if you might not be an expert or good at something, I think Masonry helps develop some of those skills to make you a better person.
• 7:59
  Agreed.
• 8:00
  And you mentioned Esperant Morris, and you spend a lot of time with him, and also Art De Hoyos.
• 8:05
  Does it ever occur to you, Is that just a common day for you?
• 8:09
  Does it ever, do you ever stop and say, Wow, I get to interact with some of the smartest and most well read Brother Masons on the planet right now?
• 8:20
  Well, um, I, I, I'm very privileged.
• 8:23
  I, I feel like I'm very privileged and blessed and to be a Mason in D.
• 8:28
  C.
• 8:28
  because I get opportunities to meet guys like Brent and Art and Joe Wages.
• 8:34
  Um, you know, we work with Joe Wages virtually.
• 8:37
  And, you know, I think these guys have developed A sort of, uh, a good background of education.
• 8:44
  You know, they started just like everybody else, you know, every Mason started the same way.
• 8:48
  They were interested in, you know, a certain topic in masonry, and they just kept going at it and kept going at it and kept going at it.
• 8:55
  I think there's a benefit about living near the DC area because you have access to some of these primary resources, right?
• 9:01
  So like the House of the Temple, as you mentioned, or the Masonic Memorial over in Virginia where you can access some of, you know, each Grand Lodge's early records.
• 9:10
  We were fortunate to have some of those records in that, in that institution.
• 9:14
  And so, I, I'm, you know, I'm very, I recognize how difficult it might be for some masons to get access to this stuff.
• 9:24
  Now fortunately, and what I have found, is Brent and Art and Joe are very welcoming and very open to receive emails and questions.
• 9:34
  These are guys who are lifelong learners.
• 9:37
  And so, You know, I've never been in a situation where I would say, Oh, you know, Brent's never going to talk to me, or Art's never going to talk to me about this topic.
• 9:45
  They're very open, very willing to talk with you.
• 9:48
  And I think that speaks to the type of researchers that they are.
• 9:53
  And honestly, I think Masonry has a part in that, where we're all brothers, we're all trying to help each other out.
• 9:59
  And at the end of the day, we're all trying to answer the same questions, or at least trying to find common ground.
• 10:04
  Those questions and find those answers and try to help share that with others.
• 10:09
  You bring up a really good points in having the privilege of met them and attending some conferences over the last couple of years.
• 10:16
  They're so approachable there.
• 10:17
  There may be, that's a, the, the new world order of, to your point, they're lifelong learners.
• 10:23
  They'd like to share what they've learned and granted it's a ton of information, but the just natural dialogue, the Q and A's that have occurred at some of the right way conferences.
• 10:34
  Were just such great memories and such a tremendous opportunity to tap into the brains of all of you that get to really immerse yourself into The topics that are of such great interest to so many brother masons out there now You are the author of the white house and the free masons.
• 10:53
  I'd like to ask an amateur question.
• 10:55
  Where do you even begin?
• 10:57
  to Tackle something like that with so much information and so much history You The process of writing a book fascinates me because I, I just can't imagine where you decide to start or stop.
• 11:10
  Oh, sure.
• 11:12
  Well, the impetus for creating the White House and the Freemasons, um, you know, I've been working on this book for about five to six years, but it really started back when I was serving as a Grand Historian for the Grand Lodge of DC.
• 11:26
  And oftentimes I would get requests, maybe emails, maybe, you know, in, you know, in person requests, or maybe phone calls from the Grand Master, from Grand Lodge officers, or maybe non Masons just reaching out saying, Hey, I'm in DC.
• 11:41
  I'd like to learn a little bit more.
• 11:42
  And so what I realized is I, you know, I, for myself, my own personal need, I needed to create like a little resource guide on, events or topics because I'll, you know, for example, a grandma will say, Hey, Chris, we have an event coming up at the Washington Memorial.
• 11:58
  Do you have anything associated to the presidents or the congressmen or, or, or, you know, vice presidents or whatever?
• 12:04
  Do you have any connection to the memorial?
• 12:06
  Did they attend any events?
• 12:08
  Did we do anything?
• 12:09
  And so I created this sort of long list, I call it.
• 12:13
  of about 20 or 30 activities.
• 12:15
  These are dinners, cornerstone events, ceremonies, whatever, and then over time, that ceremony, or that list grew larger and larger as I went through newspapers, I went through proceedings, and so I got to the point where I go, huh, I've got about a hundred or fifty activities between presidents, vice presidents, congressmen, senators, whatever.
• 12:38
  Uh, and I thought, this might be a really good thing.
• 12:40
  article for a research paper.
• 12:42
  And then over time, as I grew and found more and more and more of these events, it actually balloons to about 450.
• 12:50
  And in fact, we're working on a second edition where I found 20 or 30 even more.
• 12:53
  And I'm like, man, I just, I just keep finding this stuff.
• 12:56
  And so I decided this is no longer a book, or excuse me, this is no longer a journal article.
• 13:02
  This became a book.
• 13:03
  And so you'd be surprised where I find this stuff.
• 13:06
  I mean, to answer your question, it's Uh, you know, uh, activities from Grand Lodges, you know, they, they, they were very proud about, uh, Meeting the presidents and engaging with the presidents and oftentimes they would write it in their proceedings I found it in newspapers newspapers are probably I mean, and this is even for you read.
• 13:27
  I mean for for a mason in minnesota They can tap into if they can go on newspapers.
• 13:32
  com or some You know, state or local source, you can find activities, Masonic activities that maybe are not even recorded in a Masonic proceeding.
• 13:44
  And that's what I, what I also found.
• 13:46
  You know, a lot of old Masonic activities sometimes were not even included in Masonic proceedings because the secretary thought, well, It's not happening during a Masonic meeting, so why am I recording it?
• 13:58
  And that's actually the case, that's actually the case with the United States Cornerstone, the United States Capitol Cornerstone Ceremony.
• 14:04
  There is no written record in any Masonic book that I could find, or original, Masonic proceeding or minute book that I could find documenting the cornerstone ceremony of the United States Capitol in 1793 with George Washington.
• 14:18
  Where did I find it?
• 14:19
  Well, well, we found it in a newspaper in Alexandria, the only newspaper in Alexandria at the time had a full transcription of what happened with speeches and with activities and who was there.
• 14:31
  And so this is how I sort of piecemealed the book together.
• 14:37
  I went through newspapers, diaries, proceedings, anything and everything that I could find.
• 14:42
  And I tried to triangulate to confirm that it, you know, obviously you want to confirm and make sure that the things that you're putting in the book are accurate.
• 14:51
  But that, that was really the way that I did it.
• 14:53
  It was very meticulous, calculated, went through every single proceeding of every state and tried to find anything that I could find associated with the president and I put it in the book.
• 15:03
  What would you say is your favorite or is there, are there a couple surprises you found in your research that turned out to be just a, uh, a story that you weren't expecting as far as maybe a president and something related to craft?
• 15:21
  Well, I was very much interested in the relationship of not just the presidents that were masons, but the presidents that were not free masons.
• 15:30
  Right.
• 15:30
  And so we had about 14 or 15, depending on, um, you know, what your definition of a Mason is.
• 15:35
  There's about 14 or 15 Masonic presidents.
• 15:39
  So to me, I was very interested, very curious about the non Masons.
• 15:43
  What were they doing?
• 15:44
  How were they engaging with the fraternity?
• 15:46
  And so I was very surprised at.
• 15:49
  You know, Calvin Coolidge, for example, attended a lot of these, uh, religious, non denominational religious services that were held once a year by the Grand Lodge of D.
• 16:00
  C.
• 16:01
  Um, Ulysses S.
• 16:03
  Grant, his dad was a mason back in Ohio.
• 16:06
  His dad helped build a church.
• 16:08
  In fact, he was a past master, past secretary of his lodge.
• 16:12
  He helped organize a new lodge.
• 16:15
  So I was surprised that Ulysses S.
• 16:16
  Grant never joined the fraternity, but I found in newspapers dozens of Uh dozens of you know, um instances where grant attends masonic events and masonic ball Uh, you know some type of membership ball or some fun event where the president united states is participating He you know, he attends for about an hour or two hangs out with the masons shakes hands kisses babies and then goes back to work Um, yeah, I mean and uh, you know the thing that another another example of these non masons You know, uh, the role of women and, uh, you know, the role of the first ladies, for example, you know, Eleanor Roosevelt was more active in the fraternity during the administration than FDR was FDR because of his busy schedule, certainly with, with the war and his physical, you know, um, his physical disabilities was unable to really do a lot of the masonry.
• 17:16
  Back then, you know, he certainly because of his, you know, disability couldn't really march or process or participate in public cornerstone ceremonies, especially because the White House at the time was keeping his disability secret.
• 17:31
  You know, newspaper reporters used to, you know, the Secret Service used to yank the cameras and, you know, photography rolls out of journalists hands because they, they wanted to make sure that his disability was kept as quiet as humanly possible.
• 17:45
  They didn't want the You know the germans or the war effort to be hindered With the assumption that the president was disabled And so eleanor roosevelt was the one that attended night's templar activities and easter sunrise services And welcomes masons at the white house when the president was away.
• 18:04
  She was the one that held You know lunches and banquets and activities.
• 18:08
  She was also as far as I can tell the first uh a member of the executive group, you know, like first lady or perhaps anyone in the executive branch to visit and attend a Prince Hall function in DC.
• 18:22
  So, you know, tapping into her work with black Freemasons.
• 18:26
  So I was, I was always impressed by, uh, By Eleanor Roosevelt.
• 18:31
  And in fact, her diary is digitized and kept at the George Washington University um, archives.
• 18:37
  And so I tapped into her diary to learn more about her interaction with the masons.
• 18:42
  I think she would have been a great freemason, uh, if she were a man.
• 18:46
  And what a way of holding down the fort, literally and figuratively while FDR was busy and then also dealing with his own limitations at the time.
• 18:55
  This is yeah I can't wait to read this and I I have my book on order and I don't want to forget to ask where can our listeners find in order the white house and the freemasons So the white house the freemasons you can buy a signed copy from my website chrisrooley.
• 19:13
  com Uh, but mccoy also sells and mccoy is the publisher and in fact mccoy is the oldest masonic publishing You A company in the United States.
• 19:22
  They were originally based out of New York, but now they're based out of Richmond, Virginia.
• 19:25
  And so McCoy has been my publisher for White House and the Freemasons and the upcoming Brother Lafayette.
• 19:32
  I don't want to forget to ask, is it true that Harry Truman had so many Secret Service agents that were not Masons, they joined the craft just so they could be with him at all of the events that he attended?
• 19:44
  Was that a, is that an old Masonic urban legend or is that true?
• 19:49
  No, that's, that's, that's very true.
• 19:51
  And so, uh, the origin of that story predates Truman.
• 19:56
  In fact, the origin of that story begins with William Howard Taft.
• 20:01
  Taft was initiated in May to Mason, and a couple weeks after his initiation when he, you know, after becoming President of the United States, he, by the way, he was initiated after becoming President.
• 20:11
  Um, he visits a lodge in D.
• 20:13
  C.
• 20:14
  and I, and I don't remember, he, he, someone working under Taft in his administration was becoming a mastermate, or was being initiated that night.
• 20:23
  And so he decided to come and visit and participate in the event.
• 20:27
  Well, there were reporters that day that followed him to the event, and they caught the moment where the President of the United States You know, the Tyler opens the door, you know, who comes here?
• 20:39
  It's the President of the United States.
• 20:40
  Well, he enters, but the reporters say the Secret Service, and I quote, had to cool their heels at the door.
• 20:47
  Because they weren't masons and therefore they weren't allowed to enter the room And so that caused a minor incident with the white house to go.
• 20:56
  Well, wait a minute How are we supposed to protect the president when we we don't we're unable to?
• 21:02
  You know have him come into the room.
• 21:04
  And so a couple days later, I think the decision is made Well, i'm not sure if it's a couple days later or maybe the night, you know the day after But they decide that the president is going to have an aide The aide will be a Mason, and he will join him at these Masonic activities.
• 21:20
  And that may, that aide is a guy named Archibald Butt, who was basically his, you know, private executive secretary, or an assistant secretary, or an aide.
• 21:30
  And so, Archibald joined him, he was a D.
• 21:32
  C.
• 21:32
  Mason, he was made a Mason in D.
• 21:34
  C., and he toured around with the President.
• 21:37
  Uh, during Masonic activities and events.
• 21:40
  And not to derail part of the conversation, I mean, I, you know, you can tell I'm really excited about these stories, but the one interesting thing about Taff's aide is, you know, he takes a break one summer and says, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to go off and Do some sightseeing in Europe.
• 21:58
  And, uh, he, unfortunately, as he's done with his tour, he reserves a first class ticket on the Titanic.
• 22:06
  No kidding.
• 22:07
  So, so Archibald never actually makes it back to the United States.
• 22:11
  He dies on, uh, the Titanic.
• 22:14
  But that's the little story.
• 22:16
  Masonic connection, I guess you can say, on the Titanic.
• 22:20
  Well now I'm even more excited to read The White House and The Freemasons.
• 22:23
  We're speaking today with Chris Ruhle, historian, researcher, and author.
• 22:28
  And now you have another book that is forthcoming in September, titled Brother Lafayette.
• 22:34
  Tell us more about that.
• 22:37
  Sure.
• 22:37
  So, I, like the White House and the Freemasons, I was sort of shocked that no one's ever sat there and documented all these activities between the Presidents of the United States and the Freemasons.
• 22:49
  Now, of course, other Masons have in the past written books about the topic, but not in such detail to catalog all of their activities.
• 22:58
  And during the writing of the White House and the Freemasons, I came about that one event where James Monroe, President of the United States, Freemason, is now welcoming, you know, Gilbert Mortier Lafayette, the Marquis de Lafayette, at the White House in 1824.
• 23:17
  And I thought, wow, this is a meeting of two masons.
• 23:19
  I wonder if there's any, you know, Masonic activities that occurred during this event.
• 23:24
  And unfortunately, I couldn't find any, but that spurred a great interest in me going, well, wait a minute.
• 23:30
  I, I personally don't know a lot about Lafayette.
• 23:33
  I know about him as a military guy, you know, he's involved in the military, he's involved with George Washington, and so it started this little sort of journey where I started to learn more about Lafayette and pick up and I also again realized well, there's not a lot of information on Lafayette's Masonic activities and I can't find anything on This big grand tour if he met masons I could I could find a couple scraps So I decided, here's the next book.
• 23:59
  I, you know, I stumbled upon the next book that I'm going to write, which was documenting every Masonic activity that the Marquis de Lafayette participated in during his famous 1824 1825 tour.
• 24:11
  This was like, Beatlemania.
• 24:13
  I mean, wherever he went.
• 24:15
  People, you know, there were crowds and there was banquets and parades and festivals held in his honor.
• 24:22
  And so the best evidence, or the best recorded evidence that I could find of Masonic activity that a brother wrote was in the American Lodge of Research, which is a New York publication.
• 24:34
  And the guy captured about 20 or 30 activities during the tour.
• 24:38
  Well, Through my research, about three years worth of research, I found 65 activities, 65 events, 65 interactions, and so I catalogued that in my book.
• 24:50
  And so, you know, it's not 200 years worth of activities from, you know, George Washington to the presidents, but really it's just capturing two years, or close to that, a year, yeah, 13, 14 months, 1824, 1825, Of a year's full of activities with masons in Lafayette and then I sort of sandwich in his Controversy around you know where he was initiated a mason We really don't know and then a little bit towards the end of the book Uh with his activities when he leaves and goes back to france So I think if you buy the book you'll get a nice general overview of lafayette and his masonic activities.
• 25:30
  I'd like to share a Little snippet that you had posted on the 4th of july And it was 199 years ago, Lafayette was in New York City to celebrate his final July 4th in the United States.
• 25:45
  Later in the day, he participated in the Grand Lodge of New York's cornerstone ceremony for the Brooklyn Apprentice Library, the city's first free and circulating library.
• 25:55
  The favorite detail from that event was that Lafayette arrived at the ceremony and greeted some of the local children that came to watch.
• 26:03
  He gave a couple of them kisses as he picked them up and put them on high seats so they could get a better view of the event.
• 26:10
  One of the kids was a six year old Walt Whitman, who would grow up to become one of the country's most influential poets.
• 26:19
  What a tremendous connection on the Fourth of July and Special History.
• 26:23
  Chris, I must admit, I'm a big fan of history as it is, especially Masonic history, but your work and research makes this all the more fun to delve even further into.
• 26:35
  Well, thank you so much, Reed.
• 26:36
  I, you know, I get, I get like, I had like little, you know, goosebumps as you're reading that story because to me, I love that story.
• 26:44
  It connects George Washington to Abraham Lincoln.
• 26:48
  Can you believe that?
• 26:48
  I mean, here's a guy, Walt Whitman, who sees Lafayette, a kid who is serving under George Washington.
• 26:55
  And then, you know, Walt Whitman, when he gets older, he now starts to document and record and, and, and really is one of, you know, a poet laureate for the United States, watching the atrocities of the Civil War, watching, you know, what's going on with Abraham Lincoln and the President.
• 27:13
  And so, to me, it's, it's these fun little stories that connect.
• 27:16
  People across time.
• 27:18
  And to me, that's why I did it.
• 27:21
  You know, when someone says, Chris, why do you like to talk about history?
• 27:24
  I love sharing stories.
• 27:27
  And I think that's how easy it is for anyone to do.
• 27:30
  And I think I do it for any Grand Lodge, any brother out there.
• 27:34
  I think your lodge or your town or your state or your county or whatever, has an interesting story to tell.
• 27:42
  It may not be a George Washington story.
• 27:45
  And quite frankly, I think we're, you know, how many George Washington stories are there, but there are so many stories out there across the States of Masons doing interesting work, doing great work, you know, and, and so to me, I love hearing these stories.
• 28:00
  And so when someone says to me, Hey, Chris, how do I, how do I start doing this or, or how do I.
• 28:06
  You know, I'm interested in being a historian, and I say look at your minutes, look at your, go back to your lodge and look at your lodge's minutes.
• 28:13
  You might have great stories there, or the people that are involved, maybe interesting people who helped build your town, or, or maybe, you know, federal judges or senators or congressmen or something.
• 28:23
  Maybe they did something, maybe they were proud of what they did, maybe the lodge served as, and in many cases for Lafayette, for example, they were proud of what they did.
• 28:35
  The Masonic Lodges tend to be the biggest spaces to hold Lafayette because they were the biggest rooms around that can hold people who are attending meetings.
• 28:42
  And so, every state, every county, every town has these interesting stories.
• 28:48
  And, and really that's what I love about it, is sharing stories with people.
• 28:53
  You made a really good point earlier about how much information is contained out there in newspapers.
• 28:59
  And in my free time and my off time, I've been researching some prominence.
• 29:05
  Freemasons from my home state of North Dakota and finding that it was a reminder that, uh, a subtle reminder before the days of obituaries and stories being charged by the line or the letter, there was a ton of information about past brothers and their, their lives, their professions, their commitment to civic involvement, both within the fraternity and beyond, and, and really captures some.
• 29:34
  What hopefully will be not forgotten facts about some of our Yeah, our, our forefathers like that.
• 29:40
  And there really is a, a, a treasure trove out there in the newspapers into your earlier comment about what you found for, for these books.
• 29:48
  And well, I, uh, I can't wait for this to arrive.
• 29:51
  I, I can't remember when the delivery is scheduled, but, uh, Chris Rule's been with us today, historian, researcher, and author.
• 29:59
  The two books the white house and the freemasons and also brother lafayette Will you tell us once more where a listener can find and order these books?
• 30:09
  Sure read go to chrisroley.
• 30:11
  com chrisruli.
• 30:14
  com Uh, and you can get signed copies of the books And uh, if you're if you're if you don't really particularly care about signed copies, that's fine You can also go to mccoy.
• 30:23
  com or mccoy publishing.
• 30:25
  They're the publisher that does the books Has been selling my books and so you can get copies there But for for signed copies feel free to go to my website and at the website.
• 30:34
  You'll also see links to other resources links to um articles and other different things that i've been working on Thank you for that and on behalf of all of our brother freemasons in the state of minnesota We extend to you and all of your colleagues in the dc and virginia area Warm fraternal greetings chris roley.
• 30:55
  Thanks for being with us today Reed, thank you so much for having me and I look forward, hopefully, fingers crossed I might even come up to your state and give you a glad hello in person.
• 31:06
  We'd love to see you at our annual communication next year, if not before.
• 31:10
  We'll have to talk about that.
• 31:11
  But this has been another episode of Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries.