Latest / 8 Years To Live / When Big Things Become Normal | Childhood Trauma, Coma & Healing
Transcript
- speaker-0: Every person has a story. Some shape us, some break us, and some help us heal. Join Sisters Kim and BB as they explore mental health, trauma, relationships, and personal growth through honest conversations, lived experiences, and professional insights. Because understanding your story can change the way you live it. This is Eight Years to Live. I have gone into a coma. speaker-1: I would just say Maria Shriver. speaker-0: Yes! Yes! Why do we have so many nicknames for each other? It's a good question. speaker-1: because medical trauma is one of the most under-recognized forms of trauma. speaker-0: Who are you gonna talk to when I die? speaker-1: He's already telling you've got eight years to live. Phoebe, Jojo? Is that you? Is that really, really you? speaker-0: Kim! Kimberly! Mao! I don't even know what to call you. But yes, it's really, really me. Why do we have so many nicknames for each other? It's a good question. speaker-1: Really good question. My favorite one for you right now is JoJo. speaker-0: ChoCho I love Jojo. speaker-1: I love JoJo too. So, episode one. We're actually doing this. Can you believe it? speaker-0: No. We have talked about having well, we've actually pretended to have a podcast for a really long time. So now it's for reels. speaker-1: Actually even just today we recorded a FaceTime conversation. speaker-0: Yes we did. speaker-1: The sound didn't record. Isn't that weird? speaker-0: ⁓ no. So you have to go just by the picture. ⁓ shoot. Well, here we are doing an actual podcast. speaker-1: Exactly. Egg. speaker-0: Zackley. Zackly. speaker-1: So you're Bibi, you're my sister. Where do you fall in line in the family? speaker-0: I am BB. I am the youngest of five. So it's me. We have two sisters, you, and then our brother who was the oldest, who passed away. I don't know if we get into that, but I'll just go ahead and mention that we the four of us still live on this earth and our brother lives in heaven. speaker-1: Yes, lucky him. speaker-0: I know. Exactly. speaker-1: So the whole point of doing this ⁓ podcast it's gonna sound kinda funny because I've when I tell people about it, they're like, You do what? I would talk to you for hours and hours because I wasn't working, I wasn't going to school to be a a marriage and family therapist, which I am now. I'm still an intern, but I went through a school and all that. But before that we would talk on the phone for hours. And we would stay connected all the time and then one day you tell me I went to the doctor. I don't even know if you told me why you went to the doctor, but you tell me I went to the doctor and ⁓ guess what? They told me that I've got eight years to live. speaker-0: Casual. Just a Tuesday morning in the Garcia home. Yep, we would talk I would say th three to four hours a day. I don't know. It must have been summertime because I think maybe I was working as a preschool teacher at the time. So then I got off at noon and then I had summers off. So we would just talk and apparently we had nothing else to do. But just keep up with each other's lives. speaker-1: You'd go to the store on the phone, I'd go to the store. Yeah, it was crazy. We talked so much. So here you are, you tell me you've got eight years to live. I thought it was like that record scratch. I'm like, ⁓ say what? You you've got eight years. I'm like, what? I remember I kinda got mad. I'm like, who told you this? And N having it not even be your first death sentence, being told that you're gonna die. So here's eight years to live, but prior to that, you were also told that you were gonna die more than one. So this was like your third time. speaker-0: Yeah, at least like with a big like in when I was in the hospital for that long period, that was a daily thing. Like Mm-hmm. She's gonna die, you're gonna die. Not I don't think it was you're gonna die. I think it was she's gonna die. Mm-hmm. 'Cause I would just overhear overhear that. So yeah, multiple multiple death sentences, I guess. That sounds dramatic, but it is. Like I keep I think that sounds like too much. But really, that's what it was. speaker-1: You talked a little bit about getting sick at eleven. Can you talk a little bit more about that? I have actually some questions that I I was thinking about the other day. I'm like, I wonder what that was like. So just maybe you'll touch on that before I even have to ask the question. speaker-0: Yeah. So when I was eleven, I think this was pretty close to my eleventh birthday. Right before my eleventh birthday. Friday thirteenth. it was Friday the thirteenth. Well, okay, so let's rewind a little bit. In January, I know that, I started to get sick. Like I was throwing up, I ⁓ had a fever, just kinda like your typical flu symptoms. ⁓ But they persisted. They persisted so much that our parents eventually said that I should go to the doctor, which was not like typical for our family to go to the doctor for a flu, a cold, nothing. Like we just it wasn't a big deal, you'll get over it. So we ⁓ go to the doctor, ⁓ the doctor tells us that my kidneys are failing, and so they put me on all kinds of medications. one of them my blood pressure was very, very high. So they put me on this sublingual medication and they said, you know, monitor her ⁓ blood pressure. I was given steroids like prednisone, all kinds of medications like for a little eleven year old body was a lot. Well, for anybody, but more so for a child. So we go home. I just get home with I get sent home with medications. Sorry, not with speaker-1: Do you remember ⁓ going to the doctor and being told that your kidneys are failing? Like or is that like an afterthought that you speaker-0: Vaguely. I don't know if I remember it or because I've heard it or said it so much, I've created an image. But I kind of I kind of think I remember being told I don't think I knew what kidneys did or what it meant, like your kidneys are failing. I don't know. Take these pills, okay. All I know is I'm throwing up like bad. Like I would throw up, I would lay in bed, wake up in the morning, and I would have a bucket next to the bed so I could just like lean my head down and kind of just let the vomit come out. So I knew I was sick. I knew I did not feel good. And so we go home and I'm given these medications. One night my blood pressure is so so high. So our mom knows like when her blood pressure's at this like this high, we give her the sublingual. I remember And so she said, you know, I'm kind of worried Why don't you just go ahead and sleep with your dad and I we'll give you the sublingual and I'll just kind of monitor you ⁓ during the night. I was like, okay, and I remember, I totally remember this. So I remember getting in bed. ⁓ I remember waking up in the middle of the night. I remember the taste of the sublingual medication. That's so crazy. So I remember waking up bitter kinda like it was this medication that dissolved obviously under my tongue. So I wake up in the middle of the night, ⁓ and I remember I had to go to the bathroom. And I like I knew our home with our eyes closed. Like you know exactly where everything is when you can walk through your home. You've lived there, you know, your whole life. And so I remember seeing like the shadows of the sun coming in through the windows, the plant that was like at the window in our parents' bedroom. I remember like walking to the bathroom and everything kinda looked distorted and I had this raging headache. I had a terrible headache. I go to the bathroom. I go back and I get in bed and next thing you know the next time I remember is waking up in a hospital. I have no idea what's happened. I just know that I'm having hallucinations. Like scary. Scary hallucinations. I'm seeing spiders that are coming down from the ceiling. I'm seeing ⁓ I had like this tape on my finger that they put in the hospital that has like a red little light. And I had my hand under my head 'cause I was I had been asleep, I think. I remember looking at my finger and I don't know what had caused the hallucinations, but I remember seeing the red. I thought it was a big giant ball that I was laying on. And I was so scared because I thought if I move it's gonna rock back and forth and I'm gonna fall off this ball. And I remember telling our mom, like, the ball, the ball, like I'm gonna fall, and she just was she looked scared. Like, what is wrong with this girl? ⁓ yeah. I remember her looking at the doctors like I I could tell she thought I was crazy or I thought this is not right. I'm seeing something and it doesn't seem like anybody else's. So I knew something was weird, something was wrong. speaker-1: Do you remember being in the coma? I know that people that have been in the in a coma, they're like, Yeah, I remember I could hear things or you know, doctors will say, Talk to your loved one if they're in a coma, they can hear you. Do you remember any of that? speaker-0: I just started to remember, I think, after neurofeedback. So I did neurofeedback, ⁓ which is a type of therapy that you can probably give way more information. And that made me come back into my body when I was in the coma. So I do remember. I don't know how much more I I will remember, but I have a very specific memory like that my body can feel. It's not like something I can visualize or really tell you what it looked like. But I remember being scared. I remember being I don't know how to describe it. Maybe paralyzed, like imprisoned in my own body. I remember like a sense of panic. so apparently I had gone into a coma. And so I just remember feeling I couldn't see anything. So I had so much blood in my brain that it was causing everything like every I couldn't see. I couldn't speak. I had apparently had multiple strokes, so I didn't know that my body was my body. I didn't know how to move my body. I had no control of anything. So I just remember panic and fear, and just a sense of not being able to communicate in any way. Mm. speaker-1: That is so terrifying. ⁓ as an eleven year old and as an eleven year old who really hasn't been told that it's okay to be scared or that there's gonna be reassurance soon. And seeing your mom scared, I'm sure you had seen that in the past. So I'm sure that did something to you in your body emotionally. I know for me, earlier, ⁓ just to kind of tag on to what you'd said earlier where, you know, you you tend to minimize, I think is what you said, you know, you would minimize the eight years to live diagnoses. And even knowing for me, rewinding in our life, I minimized, ⁓ baby sick, I you know, I heard that I think the family, the whole family, who tr we travel in packs, showed up to where I was working and they said that you were sick and I thought, ⁓ well, why are they making such a big deal? And that it was your kidneys. And I remember our dad got emotional. I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, like, stop faking it. And for me the minimizing started immediately and then when you went into the coma, I was at school and I got to work and they told me, ⁓ your sister's sick there in the hospital and I just thought how sick is someone faking or making this bigger than what it is. It's almost like rolling my eyes. So I go to the hospital and sure enough they're about to life light you. And so our mom and I, we jump in the car and we drive, we're driving to Salt Lake and I don't think we talked the whole drive. We stopped ⁓ in a little town I can't think of it right now. It's between our hometown and Salt Lake and we stopped we stopped and had a burger while you're being lifelied and I think, ⁓ my gosh, wait ⁓ everyone minimize. And then she said, her mom said, Why don't we ⁓ well we should probably keep get going, yeah? Asking me. Like, sure. You know, and so we kept driving. But I just think what a pattern that speaker-0: Shit. speaker-1: you said earlier, you know, in your adult life you learned you were minimizing already. So I'm wondering, did that get picked up, do you remember specifically like when you were eleven, having to minimize or maybe not even having to, but realizing that you were minimizing now looking back. speaker-0: ⁓ now looking back, absolutely, absolutely. I have told ⁓ my story so many times and I always said it so flippantly. Like it was always ⁓ yeah, I had strokes or ⁓ yeah, when I was on dialysis, or ⁓ yeah, when they ripped the tube out of my chest for my collapsed lungs. Not not doing it for like a reaction, but really like telling someone, I had a cold last week or I you know, just very normal and it wasn't until I would see people's reactions I would think, That's not that big of a deal or obviously you've never lived life or you've never seen anything happen. And because of so much like so many other things that ho our family had gone through, I think that was just another Just another thing, just another six month stint in the hospital. So I don't I think I realized once I would actually have conversations, not just tell my story, but then people would talk back to me that I thought, wow, like this kinda seems like a big deal. And then I was asked to share my testimony a few times at different churches or events and just the reactions I thought This is crazy, like people are crying and it just seemed I don't think I cried. I don't think I felt much. I just thought I guess it's intense. Like for a little kid to get sick, for a little kid to have strokes. I didn't even realize what strokes were. I didn't realize they usually happen to older people. And then because I look so healthy, people don't tend to treat me like I am I've been sick. So I think it's been kind of a a long process to understand the severity or what it actually meant to get sick to that degree. And I'm still learning. I still find myself sometimes saying, ⁓ yeah, that's before I got sick or ⁓ yeah, when I did chemotherapy or ⁓ yeah, when I was bald just things I'm like, ⁓ yeah, this isn't like a Tuesday morning at you know, your diner that you're talking about, it's ⁓ wow. And people are like, ⁓ you had cancer. No, it was for something else. It just has seemed like such a such a thing that I've talked about so much that some of the emotion, if there was any, just kind of became repetitive, like, ⁓ yeah, people don't know the story. People will react and it is what it is. Mm. speaker-1: So much emotional confusion. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. ⁓ speaker-1: Because like you're saying, why are people crying when I'm not even crying and it's my story and sure you've told it a lot, but even when you were little, it's like, Yeah, so I'm sick, so I'm hooked up to a dialysis machines, you know, ⁓ it is what it is. Just that pattern and like you said, even prior to you getting sick, having that same pattern of minimizing and doing it knowing why you're doing it now, like you know, is for protection. You needed to protect yourself Because what was happening was so big that you couldn't process it in your mind. You know, emotionally you had nobody to have them explain it to you. Like this, this is really scary and ⁓ my gosh, I'm terrified that you might die. Like those were unspoken words. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, yeah. No, nobody ever talked to me. I overheard it literally several times outside of my hospital room. And to give like our mom credit, I can only imagine how much she was in denial or didn't want to hear it for herself. I can't imagine being in her position having to tell her kid, like, Yeah, you heard right. Like I would ask her, Am I dying? And she'd say, No, no, no, you're not dying. And I would think, Why who were you talking to that the doctor's telling you that s someone's gonna die if it's not me? No one else is in the hospital. I'm eleven, like I know what's happening. And I think a lot of it was ⁓ denial, like even when my hair started to fall out. Is my hair falling out? No. Mm. Okay, just like So then what's happening? Like how come every time I get up I look at the pillow and it's covered with my hair and I can see my hair thinning but so it's it is confusing. Mm-hmm and I also think like how hard would it have been for our mom to admit that I was one, probably gonna die, two, losing your hair. Nobody wants to say yes, you're losing your hair. But it that's confusing for an adult or a child and or thinking I'm never gonna walk again, like and then actually taking my first steps, like it's th it was a lot. It was a lot. speaker-1: Yeah. And I think like you've said so many good things right now. One of them was you can't even imagine what our mom was going through and like her level of fight, flight freeze that she was living in and the level of fight, flight, freeze that you were living in. And I think that's part of the this podcast, I think, is being able to honor both, having that and, you know, the power of and is you learn to minimize and our mom learned to minimize and she taught us to minimize mm because of her own stuff that was happening. And so I think that's really important that we wanna mention is like I've told people, if my my mom was my client, let's say, I would just honor her story and just really support her and validate what she went through. And then if I was my own client or if you were my client, I would also honor and validate your side of what you went through not just when you got sick at eleven and then again as an adult, but what happened before that. I think holding both of those can be so healing to all involved really. speaker-0: Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. And I think it it doesn't take away from either side. So for our mom, I'm sure she I can't say for sure what she was thinking or what she was feeling. But I would imagine that it would be no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And we've talked about it now in adulthood. I'll tell her like What did you think when the doctor said I was gonna die? And she'll say, I knew you weren't gonna die. And I think that's also That's also her faith. I know that she has always had faith that I don't even know how she has it or why she has it based on what she's gone through. Mm-hmm. But she'll say, I knew you weren't gonna die. But I I do know that she was scared, of course. Like she may have maybe something within her that hope, like she's not going to die. But at the same time, like I know she's also told me I would just go into another room and scream or cry. I think yes, the desperation of watching your child in pain or be helpless and there's nothing you can do for your child in those moments. speaker-1: And then having to deal with it all alone. Like she had no support. And you also had no support. Like that is tragic on so many levels. And just knowing like that those patterns like for people that are listening to us, not to minimize what they've been through, but those patterns of minimizing. Like and we get into it in future episodes. You know, she our mom learned to minimize speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: with good reason. Like she had lots and lots of trauma on many different levels with different people that should have been her secure person, her safe person. And she passed that down on to us, the minimizing, teaching us how to dissociate, not because she wanted to hurt us, not out of malice, but it's what she knew. And so that's what she passed down to us. And again, not to minimize or dismiss anybody's experience. But that's how trauma can get passed down. We don't know any better, but once we do know better, then we can do better, if that makes any sense. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think that's a saying. I think people actually say that. Once you know better, do better. ⁓ and yes, I acknowledge that. I think so, yes, we were taught to dissociate and I think it served us well in some situations. I think coping mechanisms can help and it can be a tool, but I don't always have to use that tool. I think it did protect me from a lot of things that I needed protection from. Mm-hmm. So yes, I did. That was my go to. Like dissociating ⁓ comes very natural to me. I've had to work against it my gosh, prime my whole life. Like I sound speaker-1: Dissociating. So maybe if somebody's listening they like dissociating, what does that mean? Like so what does dissociating look like for you before we speaker-0: different ways. So I would say what my go to like when I say dissociating is I withdraw. I go inward. So I have a very rich inner world. So when ⁓ pi if I'm it can show up like ADHD, I would say. If somebody's talking to me, this doesn't happen as much anymore. Thank God for therapy and medication. But when people would talk to me, I would lose time. Like I could hear somebody talk I could see them talking. It was kind of just noise. But I could follow the emotion because I was and tend to be very hyper vigilant with people's emotions and body language. So if somebody would be talking to me, I would just kind of watch them. and just sense what they were saying instead of listening. It's like I could not listen. Mm-hmm. So that would be probably one of the biggest ways I would say I dissociate, just I would be gone mentally, emotionally, but I was there physically. Mm. speaker-1: Yes, and were right. And well, you said something like that was your coping mechanism as a child. Like that helped you to survive dissociating or maybe denial or ⁓ withdrawing. Like all those things are coping mechanisms that we used as kids and they did help us to survive. And now you we bring it into adulthood because I mean there's really ⁓ now we're adults, ⁓ everything's out the door. But no, like denial is such a strong coping mechanism and if we bring it into our adult life, then it can look like an alcoholic that's in denial of how big their problem is. Or, you know, somebody that's gone through a lot of trauma, they're in denial to that how they're responding with their road rage. ⁓ it's not that bad. So all these things that that we've learned from kids or when we were kids now you're learning to have different coping mechanisms to not withdraw into your rich inner world and being able to stay present. ⁓ some clients have described it as going fuzzy or it's like I see a light around your face but I really can't see your face is what people have said. So yeah, dissociation is such an easy thing to do once you've done it for so long. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. Just natural. It was more natural to do that. I would have to make an effort to really pay attention or to be present. I could be in a room full of people and I would have no idea no idea what was going on with a conversation, if people were playing a board game, and it's frustrating to myself and I'm sure to others just hearing it someone would say, like, what do you think, baby? I have no idea what you said. So typically because I was following cues like body language, I would kind of know like the majority of the room is against what they're saying. So I'd say, Yeah, I don't know and I would just make me make a face like I didn't agree with it either. Or vice versa. Most people are on board would be like, Yeah, that that makes sense Or I'd often just say, ⁓ that's crazy. What's crazy? I don't know. I'm it comes off as inattentive, I think. And it also can look not caring. Not interested. Bored. I've been asked and told that I look bored often and I I don't feel bored. I feel very entertained with my own thoughts. Or it can be like minimal like busy work. Hmm. I've always enjoyed busy work. speaker-1: Carrying maybe? speaker-0: Give me a box of I don't know, beads and all color coordinate them. I love that. So that's dissociating for me. Like I can detach from what I should be doing, like responsibilities or whatever I need to be doing, and really just dissociate and I can lose time, not as much anymore, but I would lose hours. And I Ruben, my husband would ask, What'd you do today? I would have no idea. No idea because I was so dissociated. I could almost even be in a conversation talking and I wouldn't even know. Like there was something not connecting my brain to my body, or just wires crossing. There was no s like it wasn't solidified to what was happening in my mind. It's weird. Fuzzy's a good word. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Yeah, and I can totally see that developing even more. when you did go to the hospital and you are being told that you're gonna die, like that's terrifying for really anyone. And for you to overhear it and know that they're talking about you and then being told, ⁓ no, no, you're not gonna die of course you're going to go into your rich inner world because you you're trapped and that's what happens. When we get trapped and we can't literally run away, we dissociate, we run away internally. speaker-0: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yes. And I think like right now I'm having, for whatever reason, like such a vivid memory of being in the hospital and I was having some sort of I don't know if it was a seizure or a stroke, but my head would like get pulled back as if someone's grabbing my hair and pulling my hair to the back and I had no control. I don't know if you're do you remember that at all? I don't know if you were present or if you just heard about it. No speaker-1: I remember seeing you have seizures. I don't know if it's that specific time, but I do remember seeing you having seizures. We were having pizza. speaker-0: ⁓ I don't remember that. I don't know. This was like a very like my seizures often were like the typical well what I think maybe people think of typical. Like my body would shake, seize, I would have like they'd put something in my mouth so I wouldn't bite my tongue. This was different though. ⁓ my head would get pulled back, like jerked back. And then I would pull it forward, and then jerked back, like hard violently. over and over and over until my neck would hurt and my body would kind of like straighten and my head would jerk back. And I remember, once like they would rush me back into the hospital room because this happened, I remember, in my wheelchair. My I can't remember, our mom was pushing me in a wheelchair. We were just out trying to get me out of the room. So she rushed me back into the hospital room and then The crazy thing is like when I stopped seizing my body like I started to cry. I didn't feel I don't remember feeling scared or worried. I just remember my like I would cry and I would go into my rich inner world. I remember thinking of like being on a mountain and j like in Las Vegas, like a red rock kind of And this is just like I'm remembering this right now. ⁓ my gosh. I remember feeling yes, like as if I was on a mountain and I was like throwing myself back and that was what my body was doing. Like I was diving off of a cliff. But obviously I'm s and I knew I knew what was happening. I felt very aware, like I couldn't speak. I remember I think our mom was like, It's okay, like 'Cause I was crying and I thought I'm fine. I'm totally fine. Like I'm not worried. I'm just on a mountain. Isn't that wild? Yes. speaker-1: That is so crazy. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: I'm I don't remember that at all. Thank God duh. And I can't even imagine what you well thank God for dissociation. In those very moments like that would be so terrifying. And then I'm sure our mom was super dissociated, not even knowing what's happening, watching you being helpless, you being helpless. ⁓ my gosh. speaker-0: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cause that happened also. Yes. Like not just the backward thing, but I remember doing that forward. Like I would be laying in bed and I w would feel like I was violently thrown forward. And our mom would ask like like it sounds I'm imagining like demonic. I know it's not, but you know that movie? Yes. The I don't even know what it's called. You know what movie I'm trying to do? That's what it was. speaker-1: Then speaker-0: Yes. I would like sit up and my body would hurt because I would jerk. And our mom would say, Are you okay? And I'd tell her, I'm fine, that was weird. I don't know, I maybe I was having a nightmare. And then I'd lay down and it would happen again. And then I would immediately imagine jumping off of a mountain. But going forward, I was jumping off of a mountain in Idaho. Like a snowy mountain. I don't know if any of this means anything, but that's just my visual. Like I totally remember specifically I would either jump backward or forward and it was a seizure. I don't know if a stroke at the same time, but I know it was a seizure because then they would put that thing in my mouth and it was a whole thing. speaker-1: Wow. I wanna immediately do a deep dive onto Claude AI and ask it like is this typical for a seizure? And here I am like minimizing, like, ⁓ ha ha giggle giggle. But ⁓ my gosh, that's that's so crazy. Because of course now it fast forward into your adult life, you're going to dissociate so quickly and deeply because at eleven speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ Mm-hmm. speaker-1: having your body violently thrown either forward or like someone is ripping your head backward. Yeah, that's intense. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Mm. So intense. Yeah. speaker-1: Would you say that, like having gone through that experience being thrown forward or being thrown backwards, like going into the freeze response now? Because like you were explaining earlier, you everybody would be talking about something, for some reason you're dissociated and then someone calls on you, BB, what do you think? Would you think that that looked like a freeze response and then going into or going from dissociation to freeze all, you know, kind of simultaneously? speaker-0: What do you mean? speaker-1: So you would be dissociated. Would you also be like in a f in a freeze response? Because like you've said in the past, like, you know, somebody calls me and it's like your mind goes blank, you go free you you're frozen, so you go into a freeze response. Would you say that you would go from dissociation and then being brought out of your dissociation by being asked whatever and then you'd go into a freeze? speaker-0: Yes. Absolutely. Yes. And I'm now imagining I mean, I think there's a variety of different reasons why I would respond that way, but one of ⁓ I'm thinking about like when I was in the hospital, I would get these severe migraines, ⁓ post ⁓ strokes. So I would get horrible, horrible headaches. speaker-1: Okay, pause. So you kept getting strokes even after you went into a coma. So 'cause I thought you only had strokes and then you went into a coma, you got strokes after. speaker-0: I'm not sure. I just meant post stroke, like in the hospital state. I don't actually know if I had other strokes. That's I'm not sure because like my head being pulled back, I'm assuming that was a seizure, but I actually don't know. So we should do a Claude AI deep dive. ⁓ so what I was saying is I would have these headaches, ⁓ and because we did minimize or because our needs and wants weren't met or validated, everyone would be in the hospital room with me. I would have the blankets over my head. I would be covering my ears because my head hurt so bad. And our family is in the room laughing and giggling and living life like with no consideration to me. And so I remember You asked a question and I was getting to it with this but I don't remember speaker-1: Yeah about the freeze response? speaker-0: I yes. So I think that to me somehow plays a part into it, like then being asked a question when I'm in this state. And I remember kind of flipping out, like taking the blankets off my face and saying, Could you guys be quiet? And I think everyone paused and I'm pretty sure it was met with laughter. Mm-hmm. Like a mocking Like, you're so dramatic. Mm-hmm. And so I think that to me like would freeze me. Like, okay, so what do I do? What do I do? I would have wanted the lights to have been turned out. I would have wanted probably to be alone. Or maybe not alone, maybe just not talked to but surrounded by people. Just presence, not the complete opposite. Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. speaker-1: And like I just wanna say I remember that and I don't know that I've ever apologized. Like seriously. to minimize I would think I was nineteen. So at a as a nineteen year old, you know, we would think that our parents would have told us, you know, not to do that or that our wants and needs matter. But not only did I know that my wants and needs mattered, if if mine don't, why would yours? And then you're expressing your wants and needs when you're having a migraine. And I'm sure I'm leading everybody into mocking you, like who do you think you are? Right? Like that is so insensitive. As you're describing, I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, what insensitive people. ⁓ wait, that was me. So truly, like, I'm so sorry for being so insensitive and it's something that I have to work on currently to be sensitive. Like that's hard. And it makes sense as to why. But no, really, I do wanna tell you that that sucks. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. And I accept the apology. I don't think I've ever held it against really anyone, just knowing like, that's and not to say like I've also been insensitive. I've been on the other end. And I've also said, like, really you have a headache? Get real. Like, have you ever had a stroke? You know? And I don't have to go that route either. So I get it. I also can be very insensitive. But it has taught me to be I think sensitive. Like Trying to like I sympathize with people that don't feel good. I think that sucks. That does not feel good to not feel good. Especially like when others are s you're still trying to live your life. Like I get it. I think we were all we were all kids and we didn't know what we didn't know and what can you expect from children or like I'm sure you guys are trying to have a good time regardless or in spite of the terrible situation. Because that's also what we do to cope, which I think can actually be a really good thing. Like there's two sides. Like I think when we've suffered some trauma, we can all laugh together, even though it is severely traumatic. So I I'm sure that's what was happening on that end. Like We're still trying to just have a good time. Mm-hmm. Totally get it. speaker-1: Yeah, and I'm sure Mm. That was my role is to let's carry on everybody and it it's not happening. Let me do a little dance for you so that we can all laugh and get over it because it was such a difficult situation. We're being told that our sister's gonna die. We drive the two hours home and leave our mom and sister back and now I'm in charge of the family at nineteen with no money to feed Two kids, you know, that my two sisters and our brother, who's older than me. So yeah, s it's so layered. And I think that's the thing that we really wanted to focus on for this podcast is that trauma happens in layers and it ha when we heal, we heal in layers. So I think you and I talking on the phone, there was a lot of healing because we ended up having conversations similar to this where it's like, ⁓ my gosh. That sucked. And like you said, you understood and it still sucked. So so many things that were happening all at the same time. speaker-0: So many things. I don't think I've ever heard you talk about the drive home. Do you remember that? speaker-1: N I remember always the drive there, but I don't really remember the drive home. That's interesting. I remember the drive home when we brought you home. I do remember that. But I don't ⁓ remember leaving. I'm sure that was way too hard. Still to this day, like if I leave it's like so heart wrecking. speaker-0: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. That's crazy. Mm-hmm. That you all the parts that you remember. Go ahead. speaker-1: No, I was just gonna say that's kind of why we wanted to have this podcast was because as we learn to put words to what we've been through, like we learned what dissociation was. We'd I don't remember ever really knowing. I mean, I knew that I did it. ⁓ and that you did it and how we were taught to do it. You know, think of Santa Claus and happy things when horrible things are happening to you. Funny, not funny. But that was the whole point of having the podcast was speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: telling people this is dissociation and this is what happens and it doesn't mean that you're broken. It means that we learn to survive or, you know, learn to cope through things that were really difficult that were too big, which is the definition of trauma. It's not the actual event. It's like what we don't get when something is really too big for us to handle. So yeah, I think as as we learned that what we went through was actually traumatic. And I think like as I started school I learned started learning so much more. I'd been in therapy already for years, but it really started making sense once I went to school to be a therapist. And then you and I started having these therapy conversations, doing deep dives on dissociation, what? Watching all the podcasts, listening to all the the brothers with their podcast. Being well speaker-0: well, yes. It's a father son. We call them the brothers because we just like to destroy words. But I and that's a good point to bring us back to why we started the podcast. Because we thought I was gonna die. Yeah. And so we started to record our conversations because what else are we gonna do? Let's record the conversations. Because we talk three to four hours a day, who are you gonna talk to? When I die. speaker-1: And that was what made you sad, is like, ⁓ it's not that you're gonna die. It's ⁓ my sister's gonna be left alone with no one to talk to. And so let's record I don't even know who thought of recording the conversations. I'm sure it was me. Let's let's record it. Let's make a podcast. speaker-0: Yes. Yeah. I think I said let's pretend that one of us is a prisoner and we call and you have to check the time. You have two hours left or whatever. Yeah, so we started to record and yeah, I think we've gleaned a lot of information on our deep dives and me pretending to be a therapist as well. speaker-1: Yeah, that's right. That you were going to school with me. speaker-0: Yes. Like I did when I was a little girl. Went to college with you then too. speaker-1: He toted you around. Come on. speaker-0: Yeah, that's probably a conversation for another podcast episode. speaker-1: That's right. Yeah, so even as we're wrapping up our very first actual episode of our podcast. speaker-0: So crazy. It's so crazy. speaker-1: I just want to invite all the viewers or anybody that's listening, if you can relate, even if you haven't had medical trauma. I know that a lot of my clients have had medical trauma and how they just feel so dismissed, which it can be very dismissive. You know, if you haven't had anything like that or anything relate, you know, you can relate to dissociating or having anxiety or anything like that. We want you to follow us along on our journey because we're going to be talking about all these different things and how they show up in our day to day life and how we picked up these patterns, these coping skills from when we were kids. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yep, I agree. I think if anyone can relate to any part of it, that's what we want. There's a lot of things that might feel unrelatable, but I think when we get to the depths of it, we're all just human. We all just want love and connection. Regardless of what like our childhood should have or did look like. We all want the same thing ultimately. We want to be loved and cared for. speaker-1: Yeah. And I think that was one other thing that we were thinking was that connection. And that's what I was thinking about right as you were thinking about it. Or when you're saying it is connection. We all we were wired for connection. We were wired for love. And when we don't get it, when our parents aren't attuned to us, we don't feel connected. And so if anybody does feel connected, feel free to comment. Make sure that you like and subscribe to our podcast. We would love to connect with you. Truly we would. speaker-0: Absolutely. Yes, we would. See you next time. Bye-bye.