Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Jim Allenby about his choice of Tomb of the Cybermen (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to Jim Allenby about his choice of Tomb of the Cybermen (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. A hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 0:40
  Are you belong to me, Are you Shall be like me.
• 0:49
  Bloody hope not. Come back to a hamster with a
• 0:53
  blunt pen knife. The Doctor Who Commentary
• 0:56
  Podcast Jim. Hello.
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  Hello there. I believe that you have a
• 1:02
  question for me, but I have got a question for you before your
• 1:05
  question for me. Okey dokey.
• 1:08
  We've reached a question, Paradox.
• 1:11
  No. I very quickly want to ask you
• 1:13
  about your poetry on Twitter. Okey, Dokey.
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  Because, well, one, I don't know where you get these marvellous
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  pictures from. Some of them absolutely
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  beautiful. Some of them are utterly
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  chilling. From the feeb and imaginations
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  of of, I'm thinking it's an AI, right?
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  A lot of them are, yeah, a lot of them.
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  I just search for free images to use.
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  Sometimes I just say it's for a free.
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  I just put something into Google search for a free image because
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  I don't like to use other people's artwork without
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  crediting them or asking them, obviously.
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  So I I usually will just search for something and sometimes I'll
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  come up with something relating to what I see.
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  So yeah, I kind of I I was talking to to Dave, Dave Rennie
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  about this on his podcast. I I don't often.
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  I don't see myself as a. Poet.
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  Because I do. Because I do.
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  I write poetry, but I've never really been into poetry.
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  I just I like to write things and I just I like to kind of be
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  descriptive with imagery and and words and and put together
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  things like that and but I I couldn't.
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  I always feel like you sell a moment like like it's it's you
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  got that image and then you use very emotive.
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  Like the reason I say poetry is because it's it's so brief, it's
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  just a handful of sentences. But like it really caught my eye
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  when because I didn't know anyone else doing anything like
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  that, you know, and being creative in that way.
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  And I I do think it's astonishing like these people
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  that love Doctor Who and the ways they express their
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  creativity on social media. And I just thought I was a
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  really beautiful and really effective way of doing it.
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  I just want to ask you about it. Oh yeah.
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  I'm glad you I'm glad you like it.
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  I'm it is. There's a you'll probably find
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  there's more of a a sinister and dark edge to the stuff to the
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  stuff that I post just because I'm kind of into that kind of
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  not not horror but I am into kind of your ghost ghosty kind
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  of supernatural type things. So.
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  But there was a few of them where I read it right.
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  And that lingered in my mind a little bit.
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  You know somebody's haunting imagery.
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  Yeah. Well, between that and Jeff
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  Goddard's artwork, which Oh yeah, Bone, I feel, I swear to
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  God, Noah wants me to sleep at night.
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  Don't scroll Twitter before bed, but come on in you've got you
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  was talking on Twitter, you got some questions for the pair of
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  us. Yes, we have.
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  So we've got. OK, I think this is Pete
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  Lambert. Changed his handle to Humble.
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  Was a girl boss. Well, I'll tell you what, Pete.
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  Oh, I called you Pete. Then I'll tell you what, Jim.
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  He's very handsome man. Pete Lambert.
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  Honestly, anyway, sorry, go on. So, and we may have already
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  touched on this, he says. Does the Doctor help them open
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  the tombs? Because he can't resist the
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  mystery? Or because he knows what's going
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  to happen and wants to get his over with?
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  We've Oh, my God, that is sinister.
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  Yeah, he knows. They're all going to be
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  massacred War. Let's just get it done.
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  All right. You're all going to be.
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  Oh, man, Pete is a genius, isn't he?
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  He's. We talked about it for 5
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  minutes. He summed it up in two
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  sentences. Yeah, I mean, then then again
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  that kind of ties in with he knows, you know, it's it's it's
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  it's history. Even though it's not.
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  It's, you know, is this a point in Earth's history where they
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  open to whatever? Know that's what you and I came
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  to the conclusion of. We'll never know that.
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  We'll never know all those shades to him.
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  Yeah, he do kind of show that he is manipulating the situation,
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  but there's no definitive answer.
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  He's never questioned, you know, and he's never punished for it.
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  He just does it and that's it. It's just there in the script
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  and we're left to sort of question, well, why the hell did
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  he do that? Yeah, exactly.
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  And we've got one from Simon Hart, the lovely Side hand got
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  off. What you're going to say,
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  Fraser, Gregory then for a second?
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  He's he's coming up is he? Put one of his Snog Mario voids
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  in there. No he hasn't.
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  No he he hasn't. But he he he may have referenced
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  a a certain story in one of his tweets.
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  One of his one of his favorite stories.
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  Oh, not the Bloody dominate, is, is it?
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  The best story this director directed.
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  I'm sure some hearts got something interesting to say.
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  Well, SI says. Why was this story so memorable?
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  For everyone who watched it at the time?
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  I think it's probably the end of two, the end of episode 2, them
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  coming out of the tombs like kids watching that.
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  That's unforgettable, right? That's that's iconic imagery.
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  Yeah, it's it's it'd be nice to be able to speak to somebody who
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  presuming my dad saw it, but you know, for somebody who's
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  actually seen the story at the time.
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  But yeah, I think, I think you're right.
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  It's got such kind of the images stay in your in your head, the
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  Cyberman just staring out at you blankly.
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  Cybermen coming out of the tombs.
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  Yeah, I think it's it's it's appealing to the kids, I think.
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  I mean, we could ask Ian Levine because he was definitely
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  watching at the time, but I'm scared that he might press gang
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  the pair of us into his army of warriors, forcing people to stop
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  paying their gas bills and buying the Blu-ray sets.
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  Have you seen that? Well I I saw, I saw someone who
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  posted the other day about it basically was saying I know you
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  can't afford it. Yeah boy.
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  Anyway, I missed a record producer worth millions.
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  Why do you buy all the copies and give them out?
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  Sorry, we've got our tangent. What was the?
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  Question you want, sorry, do sorry, what was that Joe, what
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  was the question again? Why was it?
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  Oh, sorry. Why was it so memorable for
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  everyone who watched it at the time?
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  I'll say yeah, I'll say the the sort of unforgettable one.
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  Just the side men in general, yeah.
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  Yeah, and that's it. I mean, you know, I I watched it
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  as a kid as well. So it's it's stuck in my, my, my
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  mind. It's just exciting.
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  I don't think it was the racism. No, You remember that really,
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  really terribly racist stock through from the 60s.
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  Which one? Go on.
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  Let's one more. Let's do one more question.
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  OK, OK. So this is from this is from
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  Jason Thompson. So wonderful.
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  OK, so Jason asks, is this the greatest example of style over
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  substance? A story where the design and
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  much of the direction, along with the obvious homage to
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  classic movies, makes up for a story where the Cybermen fail
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  because they forgot to put an interior door handle in their
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  tombs? He's so we're not supposed to be
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  thinking about that, Jason. All right?
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  We're supposed to be scared by the Cybermen and and how amazing
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  it all looks. I mean, he's probably right.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  And again it's it's it's something that you just it's
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  it's a story that's been watched over and over again and it's
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  there and it you know it it it exists in in your brain you
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  can't you you don't see these things as a as a kid you don't
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  see it until you're you're older and you kind of you you you see
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  these kind of plot holes and things that it was never
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  designed to be watched like this.
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  No it wasn't no. Like we're we're we're behaving
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  like Oh yeah they made it so it will be examined 500 times by
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  one person put in every crazy detail style over substance.
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  I mean it's got, I do think it's got a it's such a safe premise,
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  that sort of something sinister at the heart of the tomb, you
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  know to be unearthed and the mystery of it.
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  Yeah, the suspense of it as well.
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  Is it all style? I think there's.
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  I think there's definitely something there in the right in.
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  Yeah, I think so. I think it's I I think it's
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  yeah, I think. I think there's something there.
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  It's not it's it's a good story. It's a good story I think at the
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  end of the day and it's but if you're if you're if you're sort
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  of shortchanged by the logic of it, well then you've got
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  fabulous characters like you know does it nut Eddie you know
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  Dad being fabulous although did she get shot at the end of this
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  episode. Yeah, I think she she does,
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  doesn't she? Sorry.
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  I'm just, here we go. Yeah, yeah.
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  It's just a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun and it is very
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  stylish. I I we didn't mention you know
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  the bit where where they power it up and the door to the tomb
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  opens and the lighting is like a heartbeat.
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  It starts sort of like the whole building is coming alive.
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  I don't know something to be said about style and atmosphere,
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  although I will be, you know, under under sold.
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  No, but I was, I was thinking earlier on today how?
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  How good it would have looked if it had been directed by, say,
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  Douglas Canfield. Yeah, well, it's interesting to
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  ponder, isn't it? Or even like Derek Martinez or
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  Ferguson. Yeah.
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  Michael Ferguson But then I don't think, I don't think we
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  should say you did a bad job. Morris Barry, because I think, I
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  think he, I think he absolutely did, does this to the best of
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  his ability, which I think is as old school as it is.
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  It's there's a sequence in this in a minute, which I think is
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  one of the scariest moments in Season 5.
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  And that's against some stiff competition.
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  And it's that bit where that sideman comes up the Hatch and
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  he's literally holding it up and then starts bashing at the roof.
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  And yeah, once the sidemen feel like they are going to come and
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  they ain't going to stop till they've got you.
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  Yeah. You didn't put that across very
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  often in the 60s. No, not at all.
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  What should we watch it? Yeah, I think we should.
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  Yeah. Ready.
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  Shall I count you in? Councils in OK, so in 54321 go.
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  I've got a question for you then, because we had a bit of a
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  discussion about kaftan and cleek.
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  So are you in favour of a sort of campy villain or do you
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  prefer, you know, sort of you know Davros from Genesis and the
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  Daleks or you know, like a a serious character I?
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  Think there's a place for both in Doctor Who.
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  I think there's a place for both in in many TV shows.
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  I think the camp, villain aspect in this story is a is is part of
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  what makes it, you know? Because.
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  We all remember Kaftan and Kleek.
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  I think if they were a bit more, you know, straight up and
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  serious, I think, I think it would lose something, the story.
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  So yeah, I think the funny is they're supposed to be
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  logicians. They're supposed to be these
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  cold, clinical villains are over the top.
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  Yeah, I mean, I mean, he's not a villain, the professor.
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  But you know, we haven't spoken about the professor because.
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  He's not really that memorable, is he?
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  Oh really? No, he's he's the sort of the
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  one to object to everything, isn't he?
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  Yeah, we've got 5 more minutes. Runtime rather.
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  The professor can hold a meeting then you know.
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  Well, this is what we've learnt so far.
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  Thanks professor. We have been paying attention.
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  Yeah. That's it.
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  And it you know, it's you know it's your characters like Viner
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  and and Plague and Kaftan and you know, even Hopper.
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  They stand out because they are. Slightly over the top and in
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  camp. And it works in this story.
• 14:32
  What do you think about Victoria and Captain Hopper having a bit
• 14:38
  of a flirt? Who'd be a woman?
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  How would you know, honey? Yeah, I kind of I I I do like
• 14:49
  that they try to make a little bit feisty in these scenes.
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  And again, she's literally, she's trying.
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  She's not outright screaming. She's she's clearly a she's
• 15:06
  trying to do what she can. And again, she's a, you know,
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  teenager from the Victorian era. You know, I think one of the
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  questions that you got or one of the comments you got, I did see
• 15:18
  was saying somebody said I think this is Victoria's best story.
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  I don't think that's wrong. And you know, Annika Will says
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  in the Moon Base documentary that Kit Peddler and Jerry Davis
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  liked writing for women and they liked giving them strong
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  moments. And like, you think about that,
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  like in 10th Planet is Polly that stands up to the side.
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  Men in the Moon Base is the Polly cocktail, and in this is
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  Victoria with the gun, you know, holding up the villain of the
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  piece. Yeah, it is.
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  It is. And and actually, I'll.
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  I'll ask a question about about the companions.
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  Actually, I might as well, soon as though we've got it up here.
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  So this one is from Fraser Gregory and he He asks, he said,
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  Would this story work better or worse with either Polly or Zoe
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  in it? Oh, I I would expect Polly and
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  Zoe to be proactive. So I think no, because it's
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  surprising that it's Victoria. Yeah.
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  And and she's blurting and she is, you know, threatening.
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  And no, I don't think so, Although I admire about Zoe in
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  anything. Yeah, but what do you think?
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  I can't imagine it with Polly in it.
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  I can imagine Zoe being being in the story.
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  It'd be it'd be slightly different.
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  I can imagine it'd be her trying to work out how to get into the
• 16:44
  tomb, whether or not. You know, keep your 50 lbs.
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  I'll figured it out. And I think the Doctor may have,
• 16:56
  may take a back seat with that. If Zoe was, if Zoe was there
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  instead. I can't imagine it.
• 17:02
  I can't imagine the story with Polly, Polly in it, but and I
• 17:06
  can't imagine Polly without Ben. So would that, Would we have Ben
• 17:11
  in there with Jamie as well or would it?
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  Would we not have Jamie? Not crowded companions and yeah,
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  no one's really got much to do. No, because as fun as Jamie is,
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  I think he does get a little bit lost in this he's he's not
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  really got a a big role to. Play No, no.
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  He kind of just tags along really.
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  And again, it is Victoria who who stands out more as as the
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  companion in this story, James just tagging along with with the
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  Doctor. And don't I mean these.
• 17:44
  You can see the wires there on the back of on the back of
• 17:48
  Toberman. I want to know.
• 17:50
  I hear when the Cyberman picks up a a human being an antenna
• 17:55
  sprouts from the back for some reason.
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  Oh, why, But that's just what happens, you know.
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  It's the same when you pick up a a Cyberman.
• 18:04
  They just go really limping fans.
• 18:07
  I see if all the air's gone out of them.
• 18:08
  I don't know why it is, but it just happens.
• 18:10
  I've been there in both situations.
• 18:15
  Oh dear. I do look fabulous on that.
• 18:17
  That bit there where the fight was on film though, and you can
• 18:20
  sort of he's shooting from below and the tombs are behind,
• 18:23
  there's there's some money on the screen.
• 18:26
  Oh yeah, And and obviously they can't do it.
• 18:30
  They can't film the entire thing on film.
• 18:32
  But. It, you know, it makes you
• 18:34
  wonder what kind of shots we could have got if it had been
• 18:37
  filmed. Oh yeah.
• 18:39
  It's when you go and watch those, you know, black and white
• 18:44
  Dyna Rig Avengers episodes and that's what dogs who could look
• 18:47
  like. Can you imagine?
• 18:51
  Oh wow. Didn't just slap her then?
• 18:55
  I think so, yeah. Yeah.
• 19:01
  Oh, Victoria. She must be wondering what that
• 19:03
  bloody, what have I got myself into?
• 19:08
  Probably not making any sense in this thing, she goes.
• 19:13
  It's very quiet down there but you can't hear that sort of
• 19:15
  Donald Duck noise. They get a bit stressed out, the
• 19:20
  side men where there's a lot going on.
• 19:23
  But I, I, I, I think they're quite they're quite creepy the
• 19:26
  way the the kind of there's the one which follows Jamie.
• 19:31
  And it kind of got his rigid arms out at the side.
• 19:33
  And it's it's kind of walking down there, looks one way, looks
• 19:36
  the other, and then carries on going down the corridor.
• 19:38
  There's something again. They're just so very creepy.
• 19:42
  There's something really creepy about them because there's
• 19:46
  Victoria. Is he always like that?
• 19:49
  Most of the time, Victoria. Yeah.
• 19:55
  It is what I love about what the Cybermen say.
• 20:00
  Is you know you're going to be like ours.
• 20:04
  I think it's any poison doesn't it goes you're going to be the
• 20:05
  first, you're going to be the second.
• 20:07
  Yeah. Yeah, that's when they really
• 20:09
  start to panic. Oh my God, we've, you know,
• 20:11
  that's when they start running off and.
• 20:13
  Yeah, it's the emphasis on the body horror, Yeah.
• 20:18
  That's where I think the side men are their most effective not
• 20:20
  as, as you know like robots and army robots is you're going to
• 20:25
  be, this is what you're going to be and we're going to take away
• 20:28
  your humanity. And what do you think about the
• 20:34
  the controller design, the design of the cyber controller?
• 20:38
  Are you going to ask me that question?
• 20:40
  Well, he does a lot. He's got a massive knob on, is
• 20:43
  it? It's actually a brain, isn't it?
• 20:45
  Like a big brain. Yeah, I think so.
• 20:47
  I think it was meant to light up as well, but basically it didn't
• 20:50
  work. Or I'm from the same design man
• 20:52
  who put all those Cyberman stencils out of the front.
• 20:54
  It's very literal, you know, He's the cleverest, so he's got
• 20:58
  the enormous are you supposed to light up, especially glow?
• 21:06
  And then marking your caravans, lamenting it in the documentary
• 21:08
  going? Look, had to keep stopping the
• 21:10
  shooting to change the batteries on this thing, so I couldn't
• 21:13
  wait to watch it back. And then I saw it back when it
• 21:15
  when it found it again and it didn't light up at all.
• 21:20
  Bless him. Yeah, we do keep coming back to
• 21:27
  film, don't we? We do.
• 21:29
  There is a lot of film work in this.
• 21:32
  I do. I I do find it quite funny.
• 21:35
  The the Cybermen are confused over a bit of smoke and they all
• 21:38
  kind of start wandering around. Yeah, there are.
• 21:41
  There are. There are some sort of comic
• 21:43
  moments. Yeah, we call it Comic Jeopardy,
• 21:47
  shall we? Although there was a bit, there
• 21:52
  was a shot there from above with all the smoke where they sort of
• 21:54
  look like a swarm of insects. They're sort of all waving their
• 21:57
  arms around. And yeah, he does sort of put
• 22:01
  across the chaos of what's going on.
• 22:03
  Yeah. Oh love Cleek in a minute.
• 22:06
  Right, he goes right up to the camera and goes, come on mate,
• 22:13
  do your best. I'm really scared, that thing.
• 22:16
  I mean, they This is horrible Toberman.
• 22:19
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:20
  And obviously, like, he's been established as being this very
• 22:24
  strong person. That's really the way the three
• 22:29
  of them are holding him back. It's really terrifying.
• 22:36
  And then when he's turned, he's he almost feels like a a, a
• 22:41
  battle doesn't he, with his do I make them?
• 22:45
  Because he does. He goes, he goes up there and he
• 22:47
  does what the sidemen want and he's doesn't.
• 22:49
  He hit someone over the head. Yeah, he does.
• 22:53
  I can't remember who it is now, but then he still wants to look
• 23:00
  after Kaftan, doesn't he? He's still.
• 23:01
  Yeah, I think he fancies that, you know.
• 23:04
  I think so as well. Why wouldn't you?
• 23:06
  It's Peter Brown's wife. Look at this is lit from
• 23:11
  underneath as they're coming up the Hatch.
• 23:13
  Yeah, when the Cyberman comes up, he's all under lit and
• 23:17
  creepy. Oh yeah, grabs the Doctor's
• 23:20
  foot. Yeah, it's the way.
• 23:28
  It's a peculiar affliction. You know, the side men do tend
• 23:30
  to have very nice bums. I don't got a good shot of that
• 23:33
  one just there. Watch how the side man,
• 23:35
  literally he's right over. Trout on?
• 23:38
  They're terrifying, aren't they? Look at him.
• 23:41
  Oh, go on Victoria. Look how she's smacking him in
• 23:43
  the edge. You know what I'm I'm finding a
• 23:47
  newfound, newfound love for Victoria watching this.
• 23:50
  Yeah. Oh, no.
• 23:52
  Now she's screaming right off. Look look.
• 23:55
  I'll at this shot with it, with the lid going down, the lid, the
• 24:00
  door like and it's like it's almost Terminator style, you
• 24:07
  know? That it, that it, it keeps
• 24:09
  coming. And I I thought about this last
• 24:13
  night. I would I don't think we've had
• 24:16
  a story like that. You know a little bit like
• 24:18
  Dalek, where the the Dalek is constantly, you know it's trying
• 24:22
  to come out of. It's basically trying to escape
• 24:25
  and it's trying to kill everyone.
• 24:25
  Kill everyone and perfect, keep going.
• 24:27
  I would love to see that done with the Cyberman, you know.
• 24:33
  This, you know, Cyberman just keeps going and going and going.
• 24:36
  A little bit like the Terminator.
• 24:39
  I think the closest we've got is a shad, isn't it?
• 24:45
  In the new series, it's like a side man who's sort of
• 24:48
  relentless and keeps coming. Yeah, I see what you're saying.
• 24:52
  Like one that out thinks everybody.
• 24:54
  Yeah, and yeah, like the, you know, the one side man who's
• 24:58
  just a threat to the entire planet, rather.
• 25:02
  Rather than being just a, you know, an army and yet like don't
• 25:06
  have it as a half human side man, like a shad even.
• 25:09
  I love that concept. Have it as just a normal cyber
• 25:12
  man. But.
• 25:13
  Right. So.
• 25:13
  Well, he doesn't need that sort of emotion.
• 25:16
  It's just impassive and it. Yeah, Jim, honestly, we should
• 25:21
  get Lucy McCall on this. You know, she's got her creative
• 25:23
  juices flowing at the moment. She wrote a good story about
• 25:26
  this. You better have your moments,
• 25:30
  Kaftan, because you're going to be dead soon.
• 25:35
  So this is where he's a total comic book villain.
• 25:37
  He's like, you know, still think you can make a bargain with the
• 25:41
  sidemen. He's like, oh, don't worry, I'm
• 25:42
  going to go down there and with a strong position next time, you
• 25:45
  know. He's very much like the Flores
• 25:50
  in silver Nemesis, you know, that kind of well, The Flores is
• 25:55
  not quite as fun. Oh, no, no.
• 25:59
  I'm not sure the actor knew what he was doing, you know?
• 26:01
  No, no, I think you're the Superman.
• 26:09
  I think. I think he died, didn't he?
• 26:11
  Died not long after filming Silver Nemesis, the actor who
• 26:14
  played the Flores, when he realised how far you know how
• 26:17
  bad his career had got. Yeah, he's just over to watch
• 26:22
  the tennis or something, yeah. Thought I'll do a bit of acting
• 26:26
  while I'm in. Yeah, it's a very funny story,
• 26:32
  isn't it? That they showed him a clip, the
• 26:34
  videotape of dragon fire to so he could see sort of what he was
• 26:39
  going to be axing in stories to choose.
• 26:43
  And then and then he met Sophie Aldrin in the rehearsal room and
• 26:48
  she's like, yes, I'm Sophie, I was ace in dragon fire.
• 26:52
  And he looked at her and he went.
• 26:53
  But Sophie, you are so fat. Charity was not one for Mince's
• 26:59
  words. Wow.
• 27:01
  Oh, don't you love this sequence now, where they're sending all
• 27:04
  the side men? Up their little, their little
• 27:07
  slides and they're being, they're being and they're being
• 27:15
  pulled along on the, what do you call it?
• 27:20
  On a little piece of paper as they go up the shoes, I think
• 27:24
  you'll find that's a high sophisticated conveyor belt.
• 27:28
  It just so happens to be made on a budget.
• 27:31
  I mean, I question the logic of this locked up in this room with
• 27:34
  a gun, but can I just say, do you not think guns with
• 27:40
  practical effects like this are just brilliant?
• 27:45
  Yeah, doesn't the end pop off? The end pops off and it blows
• 27:49
  our fucking massive flaming hole in the wall.
• 27:53
  It's it's 1000 times better than a laser beam.
• 27:56
  The fake laser beam, especially a Doctor Who laser beam.
• 27:59
  Yeah, well, we saw, I saw a laser beam earlier, didn't we?
• 28:02
  And when the side man put that strange sort of lightning, yeah
• 28:08
  man. Doesn't doesn't quite line up
• 28:10
  with the No, he never does. You see some of those K9 shots,
• 28:17
  They still fall over though, don't they?
• 28:20
  Yeah, look. At that, you blew a massive hole
• 28:22
  in the wall. You think they'd be outside
• 28:26
  going, what's that racket in that room?
• 28:28
  Will, I think you should be going and have a look.
• 28:32
  Well, it is nice because we're what?
• 28:34
  Well, we're still, it's sort of eight minutes before the end of
• 28:37
  the episode. But they've established that
• 28:38
  they've got the gun. So there's yeah, because imagine
• 28:41
  they didn't establish it and he just walked out with a gun at
• 28:43
  the end and was like, oh, a doctor.
• 28:45
  You know, yeah, he's thinking what?
• 28:48
  But you know, it does make you wonder who who actually decided
• 28:51
  to put put them in there in the 1st place.
• 28:53
  Put them in that room. They.
• 28:58
  I'm still seeing plenty of stencils of cyber heads around.
• 29:02
  Do you think? Do you think, like when I saw a
• 29:04
  man was like, oh for God's sake, I've got to do all these stens?
• 29:07
  That was Jesus. They're up over there conquering
• 29:13
  the fucking universe and I've got this spray paint.
• 29:21
  Oh, never saw of it like that. I mean, I don't know.
• 29:24
  Like, I figured they were here, like discreetly.
• 29:29
  Not really. You know, it'll be like me
• 29:33
  drawing a massive penis outside my house.
• 29:37
  A gay man lives here. And and then all over your
• 29:41
  walls. Yeah.
• 29:42
  Well, just to remind you all over me walls.
• 29:48
  Yeah, that's it. Oh, look at his bulging eyes.
• 29:56
  Oh, this is my favorite line. I've got to say it.
• 29:58
  Really. These humanoids are not like us.
• 30:03
  They still have fear. You see that man on the left
• 30:12
  there? He looks very happy, doesn't he?
• 30:14
  He's got a smile on his face. Here we go.
• 30:18
  The conveyor belt. Yeah, they must.
• 30:23
  Surely they marketed these in the 60s?
• 30:26
  You would have thought so. I'm.
• 30:28
  I'm actually surprised that. When the show came back the you
• 30:32
  know, we got retro figures, didn't we have we have various
• 30:36
  characters. I'm surprised that they didn't
• 30:39
  market the cyber mats. I've got a very small cyber mat
• 30:43
  that came with the set, but it's only a tiny one, not not like a
• 30:46
  nice big time. Yeah, I can.
• 30:48
  I can imagine them being, you know, remote control thing that
• 30:52
  you could, you could buy, you know, chase your cat around the
• 30:56
  house with one, you know, or just scare the ass off my other
• 31:01
  half. That'd be brilliant.
• 31:04
  Put it in the bed and then make it come to life, you know?
• 31:07
  Even better if we can jump up. What's that wiggling in the bed?
• 31:11
  That's rude and. It's detached.
• 31:17
  I've got skilled, man. All right.
• 31:21
  Oh, this. This sequence here is obviously
• 31:23
  justly loaded, isn't it? And it's unusual in this story.
• 31:30
  It's had to have a character moment like this, like Enemy in
• 31:33
  The World is packed full of character moments, but and and
• 31:37
  so many other stories. It's a nice pause in the story,
• 31:41
  isn't it? It's a nice kind of a moment to
• 31:45
  just kind of have a breather from all the action and it's
• 31:50
  nice for the doctor to be talking about.
• 31:55
  You know, his own family, which it's, you know, it's very rare
• 31:59
  that at this point in the series that we ever really heard
• 32:03
  anything about anything from the Doctor's past.
• 32:07
  And he's coming. So, yeah, as well, isn't he?
• 32:10
  He's really, Yeah, he's trying to sort of look after her.
• 32:14
  He's in this rather unfortunate position where he's Lombard with
• 32:16
  this screaming Victorian miss, Yeah.
• 32:21
  And he's looking after her, although that's a very old
• 32:25
  fashioned shot there. Did you see when she was staring
• 32:27
  straight at the camera going? Yeah, only when I close my eyes
• 32:31
  I'll see them. But you know when they say Trout
• 32:37
  has got sort of twinkly eyes? Look at him there.
• 32:40
  Yeah, you can see it, can't you? And we might.
• 32:44
  Only you could have had eleven families.
• 32:46
  All right, I'm just saying. And The thing is, we're missing
• 32:51
  so many of of those kind of shots.
• 32:54
  And what's what's? What doesn't exist, You know.
• 32:58
  You might have even lit up the Space Pirates.
• 33:00
  You know. You never know.
• 33:02
  I'm I'm determined to. I'm determined to like it.
• 33:06
  It's. I still.
• 33:08
  I finished it once, as I say, you said determined.
• 33:12
  It's been out a long time. Still not something yet.
• 33:15
  It's I'm, I'm, I've, I've reached that point with the
• 33:18
  Space Pirates now where I want. I want it to be animated or I
• 33:21
  want it to be found because I want, I want it to because it it
• 33:27
  it, it's as dull as anything for me, you know, there may be fans
• 33:32
  out there somewhere, but for me it's it's incredibly dull and
• 33:36
  I've all, you know, it's one of those stories where I really
• 33:38
  want it to be found so I can reappraise it so that you know,
• 33:43
  maybe what maybe isn't that dull, you know, an animation
• 33:48
  could really. Really bring it to life.
• 33:51
  Rubber. She knew fangled.
• 33:53
  Solar Tolson. There is a scene in Space
• 34:00
  Pirates very similar to a scene in Tomb and Simon, you know,
• 34:03
  they've both got a scene where the evil villainess looks
• 34:05
  straight to the camera and goes just to remind you.
• 34:09
  So Captain does it, and there's a wonderful bit with Madeline
• 34:12
  the sigre at the end of Episode 2 after she talked to her Mac.
• 34:15
  And she sort of turns around and goes just in case we're in any
• 34:21
  doubt, you know, You know, what was nice about that sequence
• 34:25
  there with Victoria? Yeah, that lovely character
• 34:27
  moment. He's like, oh you know, go on,
• 34:29
  go and sleep and let this poor old man stay on guard.
• 34:33
  And then it they wait for sort of 10 or 15 seconds whilst he's
• 34:38
  sitting down and then the Cybermen attack.
• 34:41
  And it's a shifting tone, but it's a very comfortable one,
• 34:44
  from sort of the warmness to the horror.
• 34:48
  Yeah, and this whole scene was this fucking absurd, These
• 34:52
  things. Just absurd.
• 34:54
  And Trout and sells it. He's like, come on, get this
• 34:57
  pipe in around here. Yeah.
• 34:59
  And The thing is, there's a, you know, the story kind of.
• 35:03
  There's always a sense of urgency with this story.
• 35:05
  You know it doesn't. It doesn't.
• 35:09
  You never feel safe, Yeah. Something.
• 35:13
  It's always coming at you. Something always coming at you
• 35:16
  or the cyber mats, or as it turns out, kaftan and klieg in a
• 35:19
  minute. Yeah, Oh my God, you might say.
• 35:24
  I've given them a complete metal breakdown.
• 35:28
  And you know what? The more the more you know now
• 35:31
  you've mentioned it, the more I watch it, the more I realise
• 35:34
  that Jamie is really sidelined in this story.
• 35:37
  He's not been a great deal. He's there but.
• 35:39
  Yeah, well, we've barely spoken about him.
• 35:44
  We've talked a lot. In fact, we talked a lot more
• 35:46
  positively about Vic. Yeah, I see.
• 35:51
  Just there's another, there's another transition here.
• 35:53
  So we think the danger's over because he's killed the cyber
• 35:56
  mats. And who should be standing in
• 35:58
  the doorway? Oh, that's so old fashioned.
• 36:03
  That shot. Yeah, someone off camera going
• 36:06
  watch out, Doctor. Wow.
• 36:15
  Sometimes Morris Barry shows he is a director of the Old School.
• 36:19
  Yeah. Wow.
• 36:22
  That's good though. That's a fantastic episode.
• 36:25
  Again, is that really lit up? Does it this story?
• 36:27
  No. And and and still the Cybermen
• 36:30
  are down there. You know, they've not got out
• 36:32
  yet. And you're right, like some of
• 36:34
  those six partners, you know, we do do a bit of jogging on the
• 36:38
  spot. There's not really any time to
• 36:40
  do that here, is there? It's.
• 36:42
  Because it's sort of two episodes to get down there and
• 36:45
  to get them out. We've only got 2 episodes with
• 36:47
  them, so it's sort of all go all the time.
• 36:50
  Yeah. It never.
• 36:52
  It never lets up. It never lets up and it's never
• 36:54
  boring. No.
• 36:57
  Well, would you dare to to enter Episode 4 with me and see this
• 37:02
  thing to its riveting conclusion?
• 37:04
  Yes, I would dearly love to. Let's do it.