Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #742 You Are Who You're With

Transcript

#742 You Are Who You're With · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the.
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  Speaker 2: Time poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 1: Now. Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, founder of Happy
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  Speaker 1: Families dot com dot you, and dad to six daughters,
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  Speaker 1: one who has married, moved out, and is making me
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  Speaker 1: a grandpa in a couple of months. Time. Holy smokes,
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  Speaker 1: A couple of those words came out of my mouth.
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  Speaker 1: Listened to you, Christine late in the background, phone off.
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  Speaker 2: But I'm so excited. Every introduction you give us a
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  Speaker 2: little gift, and that is just such good news. Juston congratulations.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're pretty excited, and in fact, as a as
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  Speaker 1: a dad who said to his daughter, I don't want
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  Speaker 1: to be a grandpa until I'm at least fifty. But
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  Speaker 1: it's up to you. Oh, Like, I can't tell you.
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  Speaker 1: I can't tell you what to do, and I made
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  Speaker 1: that very clear. But I just want to said like,
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  Speaker 1: I want to be at a point where I can
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  Speaker 1: be a present influence in their lives. I want to
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  Speaker 1: be the grandpa who by the time they're five years
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  Speaker 1: old and heading off to school, I want to be
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  Speaker 1: able to meet him at school. I want to be
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  Speaker 1: able to ride my bike to school with my grandkids
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  Speaker 1: and give the parents break. I want to be that
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  Speaker 1: involved grandparent. And anyway, my daughter didn't wait till I
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  Speaker 1: was fifty.
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  Speaker 3: It's still a but you will be the kind of
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  Speaker 3: grandparent that the parent raves about.
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  Speaker 1: Oh jeah, hope you will be. Yeah, we're going to
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  Speaker 1: do our best. So anyway, we've got that daughter married
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  Speaker 1: and expecting a baby. She's been married for like nearly
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  Speaker 1: four years now. For crying out loud, that does make
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  Speaker 1: me feel like I've I still feel like I'm like
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  Speaker 1: twenty eight thirty four or something like that. But our
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  Speaker 1: second daughter is in the UK. She's been there for
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  Speaker 1: a couple of months now and is just doing such
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  Speaker 1: a great job, living away from home and living through
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  Speaker 1: the coldest temperatures she has ever experienced in her life.
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  Speaker 1: It's just been wonderful to hear how she's going over there.
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  Speaker 1: Got another kid at UNI, and then we've got three
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  Speaker 1: kids still at school. That's us. Christine Layton is WA
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  Speaker 1: and Perth Afternoon's presenter on ABC Radio, and why don't
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  Speaker 1: tell us about your kids, Christine, because you've got I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to say you got two. I mean technically not quite,
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  Speaker 1: but let's go with that anyway.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, look one is technically part of the interview. Right now,
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  Speaker 3: I am expecting a son, which is rather exciting because
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  Speaker 3: I already have a four year old daughter. And oh look,
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  Speaker 3: Bonnie is just a delight.
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  Speaker 2: She's got blonde.
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  Speaker 3: Hair and green eyes and a blunt fringe like me,
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  Speaker 3: and I didn't mean to give us the same haircut,
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  Speaker 3: but I did. And she's kind hearted and patient, and
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  Speaker 3: she's the kind of kid who will see someone crying
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  Speaker 3: in the playground and she'll go over and check that
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  Speaker 3: they're okay. She won't wrap her arms around them without
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  Speaker 3: making sure it's okay first.
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  Speaker 2: She'll certainly look after others.
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  Speaker 3: And I think that's because her father is a mental
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  Speaker 3: health nurse, so she's very caring.
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  Speaker 2: I'm so damn proud of her. And she's cheeky as justin.
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  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I didn't realize four year olds
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  Speaker 3: could give you sass. You know what she said to
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  Speaker 3: me the other morning. She's got two dollars right, because
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  Speaker 3: she knows she's got a little brother coming. She's got
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  Speaker 3: JJ from Coco Melon, you know, the four year old's influencer, really,
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  Speaker 3: and then she's got an the doll, which is called Lisa,
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  Speaker 3: and she was holding them both in her arms, feeding
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  Speaker 3: them a bottle. When she turns to me and says, see, mom,
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  Speaker 3: looking after a baby is easy. And I was like, oh, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: tell me more about that at about six months time, Bonnie.
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  Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. And if I was
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  Speaker 1: a novelist writing a description of somebody, I would use
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  Speaker 1: the term blunt fringe. I think that's just I love
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  Speaker 1: the way you painted that picture with your words. That
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  Speaker 1: was just fabulous.
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  Speaker 2: Oh it's accurate.
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  Speaker 3: Yesterday we talked about helping your child discover what makes
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  Speaker 3: them special, and you know, who they are depends on
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  Speaker 3: who they hang out with.
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  Speaker 2: So can I ask you justin what do you do
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  Speaker 2: when your child's friend is a bad influence. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: this can happen at any age, right, Yeah, this.
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  Speaker 1: Is a really, really difficult thing for parents to deal with.
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  Speaker 1: I remember watching this happen in my family growing up.
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  Speaker 1: I'm one of six myself, I'm the eldest of six.
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  Speaker 1: I have me, then twin sisters, then my brother, than
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  Speaker 1: twin sisters again, and I remember one of my sisters
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  Speaker 1: had a friend who will remain nameless even today, thirty
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  Speaker 1: forty years down the track, but she had this friend
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  Speaker 1: that my mum despised. She just was convinced that she
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  Speaker 1: was a bad influence. She wasn't the kind of kid
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  Speaker 1: that my mum wanted my sister hanging around with, and
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  Speaker 1: she would consistently pester my sister to stop hanging around
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  Speaker 1: with this kid. Now, this story is fascinating to me
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  Speaker 1: because of a friend and colleague by the name of
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  Speaker 1: Christopher Niemick. He's at the University of Rochester, published a
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  Speaker 1: really smart academic paper back in two thousand and nine
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  Speaker 1: that asked this exact question. So I'm going to lean
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  Speaker 1: heavily on Bartzoynen's Martin van stein Kista and Christopher Neemick
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  Speaker 1: and their two thousand and nine publication that was called,
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  Speaker 1: and I quote, should parental prohibition of adolescence peer relationships
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  Speaker 1: be per inhibited? And the idea here is so in
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  Speaker 1: a nutshell, what they've done is we've got really inconsistent
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  Speaker 1: associations between parental prohibition of peer relationships and kids going
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  Speaker 1: and hanging out with deviant peers, kids that are engaging
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  Speaker 1: in challenging behavior. And now this is oriented towards adolescence.
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  Speaker 1: But I think it's safe to generalize this into kids
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  Speaker 1: who are probably in their twins, and once we go
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  Speaker 1: below that developmentally there are probably too many changes. But
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  Speaker 1: you don't see too many parents forbidding their five year
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  Speaker 1: olds from a hanging out. I mean, five year olds
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  Speaker 1: tend to be pretty innocent and pretty easy to get
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  Speaker 1: along with for the most part. It's once they get
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  Speaker 1: up to like eight, nine, ten, and then into the teens.
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  Speaker 1: And so what they did was this really really smart
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  Speaker 1: little study, cross sectional study, which basically mean is we
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  Speaker 1: just look at everything that's happening right now across the population,
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  Speaker 1: and they examine parents' styles of prohibition. In other words,
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  Speaker 1: in what way are parents saying, I don't want your
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  Speaker 1: hanging out with those kids? And what they looked at
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  Speaker 1: was what's the what's the parent style essentially, and how
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  Speaker 1: is that related to what the kids choose to do.
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  Speaker 1: Are they hanging out with these deviant peers or not?
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  Speaker 1: And they had a hypothesis, And it's worth exploring the
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  Speaker 1: hypothesis because it's consistent with something that I'm talking about
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  Speaker 1: all the time. In my upcoming book, I May One
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  Speaker 1: the Parenting Revolution, I go into this. In fact, I
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  Speaker 1: used this study in the book. So there's what we
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  Speaker 1: might call a need supportive or autonomy supportive style, which
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  Speaker 1: is essentially saying, you know what, kiddo, I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: share some ideas with you. I'm going to listen carefully
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  Speaker 1: to you, and we're going to work out an approach
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  Speaker 1: here with your friends. It's going to work for everyone.
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  Speaker 1: Or we might have more of a controlling style. I
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  Speaker 1: don't want you to do it. They're bad kids, stay away.
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  Speaker 1: And their hypothesis was essentially, if you've got an autonomy
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  Speaker 1: supportive style, you're going to see your kids making choices
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  Speaker 1: that are safer and healthier. They're going to be less
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  Speaker 1: likely to associate with those deviant peers. Whereas if you're
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  Speaker 1: a controlling parent, guess what's going to happen. The kids
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  Speaker 1: are going to the kids are going to go off
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  Speaker 1: and say, I don't care what you saying, then do
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  Speaker 1: whatever they want. So they had two hundred and thirty
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  Speaker 1: four adolescent Belgians, average age was like sixteen years of age,
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  Speaker 1: and what they looked at was what's going on the
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  Speaker 1: parenting style and what of the kids doing, And the
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  Speaker 1: research showed that their hypothesis was supported. Specifically, the more
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  Speaker 1: the parents opposed their adolescent child's what's the word affiliation
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  Speaker 1: with those friends. The more they made those friends forbidden
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  Speaker 1: fruit the more because those friends were involved in challenging behavior.
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  Speaker 1: The more that those kids were hanging out with those friends,
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  Speaker 1: the more they were like, I don't care what you say.
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  Speaker 1: Whereas the more parents sat down and said, hey, let's
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  Speaker 1: talk about this, let's work this out. It didn't completely
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  Speaker 1: stop the kids for hanging out with DVM pears, but
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  Speaker 1: it reduced the influence of those peers, and it also
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  Speaker 1: reduced the likelihood that they were going to spend a
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  Speaker 1: lot of time with them.
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  Speaker 3: See that's clever because as a teenager, when mum said
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  Speaker 3: I couldn't hang out with someone or quite simply kept
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  Speaker 3: me home.
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  Speaker 2: It made me want to go more. And it made
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  Speaker 2: me want to.
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  Speaker 3: Defy her and lie to her and go to the
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  Speaker 3: galleria and watch a movie anyway, because in my mind, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I just wanted to sit in a cinema for three
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  Speaker 3: hours with my friends, probably talking, probably eating a lot
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  Speaker 3: of popcorn.
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  Speaker 2: I couldn't see the big deal.
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  Speaker 3: And so yeah, the more she said no, the more
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  Speaker 3: I did it anyway.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm not proud of it. I didn't understand her
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  Speaker 2: reasoning as to why she was keeping me home.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, in hindsight, my mum was agrophobic and
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  Speaker 3: I think she had a few things happened so she
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  Speaker 3: was worried about my safety and fair enough. So I'm
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  Speaker 3: determined to get that balance right. But it must be
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  Speaker 3: a really hard thing. You know, when you've got a
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  Speaker 3: parent who can see from the fiftieth rung of the
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  Speaker 3: lad as opposed to the tenth throng of the ladder,
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  Speaker 3: I can see that. You know, a child might be
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  Speaker 3: funny and fine in class, but is probably going to
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  Speaker 3: do weed behind the shed at school.
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  Speaker 2: How do you show your kids what they can't see?
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  Speaker 1: And I guess the other thing is we don't You
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  Speaker 1: mentioned getting the balance right and what you were saying,
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  Speaker 1: we don't want to. Just being supportive of our kids'
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  Speaker 1: autonomy and their needs doesn't mean that we say, oh, well,
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  Speaker 1: you hang out with who you hang out with, and
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  Speaker 1: that's up to you. Like, it's not an abrogation of
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  Speaker 1: parental responsibility. It is actually a balance, and that is
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  Speaker 1: we sit down and say, I care about you so much,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm seeing some things and I kind of feel
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  Speaker 1: like we need to have a chat about them because
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  Speaker 1: I'm nervous. I'm worried. Here's what I'm worried about. So
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  Speaker 1: we really do need to have conversations. And that's what
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  Speaker 1: these researchers found Niemika and Solunen's and vanstink As do.
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  Speaker 1: They found that parents did need to sit down and
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  Speaker 1: have these conversations. It's not just go for your life.
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  Speaker 1: You figure it out your life. That's not how it works.
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  Speaker 3: So when you have those conversations, I mean, obviously, I
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  Speaker 3: think kids are far more aware of what can happen
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  Speaker 3: in a worst case scenario. You know, when you're at
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  Speaker 3: the cinema, for example, like kids I feel these days
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  Speaker 3: because of the twenty four hour news cycle and social media,
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  Speaker 3: they know that they could be abducted, or they know
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  Speaker 3: that somebody could put something in their drink, even at
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  Speaker 3: a cinema. You know, they know that these people exist.
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  Speaker 3: But when you sit down and have that conversation with them,
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  Speaker 3: do you use those worst case scenario examples or not?
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  Speaker 1: No, As general rule, the answer is to stay away
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  Speaker 1: from the worst case scenarios. Let's get with something a
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  Speaker 1: little bit more benign, rather than a drink spiking or
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  Speaker 1: an abduction because the drink spiking kind of thing, that's
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  Speaker 1: more likely to happen once they're at a club, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: once they're adults or certainly in their very late teens,
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  Speaker 1: and abduction, statistically speaking, the likelihood of that happening is
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  Speaker 1: so infinitesimally small. I mean, it still happens, and I
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  Speaker 1: don't want to pretend it happened, But let's look at
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  Speaker 1: the DEVMP.
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  Speaker 3: These are the examples that my mum used, Yes is
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  Speaker 3: what I'm saying, and so it scared the.
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  Speaker 2: Living daylights out of me.
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  Speaker 3: It did make me very much afraid of the world.
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  Speaker 3: By the time I left high school and went to UNI.
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  Speaker 3: I had to recalibrate to discover what was right and wrong,
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  Speaker 3: and did a lot of work with the psychologists. But
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  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously she just to explain. My mum was
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  Speaker 3: the daughter of a prisoner of war from the Burma
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  Speaker 3: Railway who had untreated PTSD. So it was intergenerational trauma
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  Speaker 3: and anxiety that was passed down through her to me,
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  Speaker 3: and I've had to work through it. So how can
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  Speaker 3: you how can you explain to your child that bad
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  Speaker 3: things can happen without going that far?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, there are two answers to this, and it depends
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  Speaker 1: on the age of your child. So if you've got
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  Speaker 1: young children, if we look at the history of raising kids,
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  Speaker 1: parents from the very beginning have told their kids not
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  Speaker 1: to go near the water because the sea monster will
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  Speaker 1: swallow them, or not to go into the woods because
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  Speaker 1: the bears will eat them, or generally like really scary stories.
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  Speaker 1: The Eskimos in particular are known for having, or the
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  Speaker 1: Inuit are particularly known for having really scary stories for
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  Speaker 1: their kids about the sea and the water. They terrify
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  Speaker 1: their little kids. And while I don't love the idea
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  Speaker 1: of terrifying kids, what I think is worth highlighting here
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  Speaker 1: is that there is wisdom in this, because your little
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  Speaker 1: kids will be scared and therefore they will listen. They
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  Speaker 1: believe you. But as kids start to get older and
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  Speaker 1: we start to have conversations with them about not hanging
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  Speaker 1: out down at the park on Friday night with the
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  Speaker 1: friends and getting drunk because the alcohol you're going to
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  Speaker 1: get king hit, or you're going to get someone pregnantor
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  Speaker 1: you're going to get pregnant, or bad things happen. What
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  Speaker 1: our kids start to do as they get older is
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  Speaker 1: they're like you know what. I know what everyone's been
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  Speaker 1: doing on Friday night for the last couple of months,
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  Speaker 1: because they've been telling me all about it, and I
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  Speaker 1: want to go down. And no one's been king hit
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  Speaker 1: and no one's pregnant, and everyone's having a really good time,
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  Speaker 1: and we've got the video footage to show how much
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  Speaker 1: fun they're having. And so if we use these extreme examples,
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  Speaker 1: if we use these examples designed to scare kids, we
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  Speaker 1: lose credibility in their eyes, we lose we lose influence.
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  Speaker 1: Subsequent to the lack of credibility, and the conversation can
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  Speaker 1: go nowhere. They actually stop trusting us because they think
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  Speaker 1: that we're trying to stop them having fun, yes, instead.
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  Speaker 2: Of that is what happened.
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  Speaker 3: Definitely, yes, And Mum and I had to rebuild after that.
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  Speaker 3: And you are right, Oh, it's oh gosh, it's so true.
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  Speaker 3: So is it just a matter of being real, just
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  Speaker 3: a matter of being real with them?
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  Speaker 1: It kind of is. Let's say I've got a daughter
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  Speaker 1: who gets drunk at a party on Saturday night, and
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  Speaker 1: when I see her on Sunday morning, I can tell
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  Speaker 1: because I'm in parents. We can tell this stuff. You
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  Speaker 1: can tell by looking at a kid whether they've had
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  Speaker 1: a big night the night before, and you can usually
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  Speaker 1: smell it as well. Right, And so if I walk
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  Speaker 1: up to my son or my daughter, I mean, I'm
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  Speaker 1: speaking hypothetically here, but if I walk up to my
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  Speaker 1: kiddo and I can tell that they've had a big
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  Speaker 1: night and they've not been honest with me about what's
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  Speaker 1: going on, and they've been hanging out with deviant peers,
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  Speaker 1: I'm probably going to say you had a big night
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  Speaker 1: last night. I can tell that you've been drinking alcohol.
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  Speaker 1: And my child may want to be defensive, and my
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  Speaker 1: job as a parents say hey, I'm not going to
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  Speaker 1: get you in trouble for it, but I think we
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  Speaker 1: should have a chat because if you think that you're
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  Speaker 1: old enough to be doing this, and if you are
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  Speaker 1: going to do it in spite of my request that
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  Speaker 1: you not do it until you're at least eighteen, I
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  Speaker 1: need to make sure that you're safe and I need
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  Speaker 1: to make sure that you're healthy. And then this is
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  Speaker 1: so hard for so many parents to do, but to
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  Speaker 1: sit down with that child and say, how did it
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  Speaker 1: feel when you got drunk, or how did it feel
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  Speaker 1: when you had that intimate moment with that person. What
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  Speaker 1: was it like for you? What was good, what was bad?
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  Speaker 1: How can we help you to make safe, healthy decisions
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  Speaker 1: around this behavior moving forward? Now, this especially for a
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  Speaker 1: family or a parent who with this clashes with their values,
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  Speaker 1: It's almost impossible to do because you're going you're stomping
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  Speaker 1: all over everything that I hold dear, You're pushing back
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  Speaker 1: against the things that I've taught you. I feel like
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  Speaker 1: you're betraying my trust inside as a parent, you are
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  Speaker 1: in such a tough situation. But if you unload all
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  Speaker 1: of that on them, you will lose them. What you
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  Speaker 1: need to do instead to say, all right, when you're
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  Speaker 1: with these friends, what are you noticing? How does it
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  Speaker 1: feel to be around them? Do you feel like you're honored?
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  Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're being pressured? Do you feel
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  Speaker 1: like they listen to you? Do you feel like you
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  Speaker 1: have a voice? And so what we're trying to do
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  Speaker 1: is work out how does it feel, where should we
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  Speaker 1: go from here? And how can we support you and
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  Speaker 1: how can we turn this into a healthy, safe environment
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  Speaker 1: for you. Those conversations are what we call autonomy supportive conversations,
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  Speaker 1: and those are the conversations that will lead kids into
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  Speaker 1: much better, safer, healthier decision making processes and systems.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Justin, can I go to the movie after this? Well, no,
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  Speaker 2: that's let's have to talk, Christine.
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  Speaker 1: Who are you going with and what are you going
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  Speaker 1: to be seeing? Let's let's make sure that you make
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  Speaker 1: the safe, held the decisions. You know, that's the conversation.
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  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want to go on my own at
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: this point, myself said the very pregnant mother. And I'm
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: sure that those of you out there listening understand. Another
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: great session, Justin. This has been so much fun. Honestly,
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: thank you for having me.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining me this week. It's been
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: it's been a real delight. I hope that our Happy
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Families listeners have enjoyed our conversations. It'd be great to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: do it again sometime in the meantime. I look forward
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: to joining you again soon. For our Perth listeners, you
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: can hear us every second Monday afternoon at about oh
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: help me with the time. What is it like?
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Tenot past time? Two o five Happy Families.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: And we talk about all the good stuff like we've
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: talked just now about these things. Christine, Thanks for joining.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Me, thank you for having me on Justin See you.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Everyone, and the Happy Families podcast will be back next
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: week with Kylie again because school holidays I think are
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: over in Queensland. I hope I've got my dates right.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rulin from
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Create. Bruce is our executive producer and for
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: more information about making your family happier, you'll find it
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: at Happy families dot com dot A. You have a
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: great weekend.