Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S4 E10 -TCWT Live! - International Crimes

Transcript

S4 E10 -TCWT Live! - International Crimes · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:15
  Y y yeah h Hello, Hello, Hi everyone, Oly, It's nice
• 1:11
  to see you. It is. I have to tell you I missed everybody.
• 1:17
  After having to miss the last live I've missed everybody. I was feeling
• 1:21
  very lonely. Yeah, yeah, I was feeling a little all of this
• 1:27
  lonely. How could die? Hello? Amy and Buffy and Terry and Patches
• 1:36
  and Captain and Jaded Wonders here yay and Sam and I'm just going down then
• 1:47
  and Jaded Hello, and bells, Hello, Hello, glad, y'all are
• 1:51
  here. This is gonna be a doozy of an episode that we're recording tonight,
• 1:57
  because I'm pretty sure your case is wild and mine is ridiculous. Yours
• 2:07
  is batship bonkers. I mean it was batship bonkers. He is uh yeah,
• 2:17
  yeah, he's a He's a piece of work, an absolute piece of
• 2:22
  work. I'm uh. I'm excited to talk about it, especially since this
• 2:25
  is this comes from a line of scripts where I was feeling pretty silly in
• 2:30
  general. So so this is kind of a Although it's a serious crime and
• 2:36
  we obviously I talk about it with seriousness, there are definite jokes and silly
• 2:40
  stuff going on. So well, it's called the balance. You gotta balance
• 2:47
  the crazy with some funny. Yes, so yeah, I've found yeah yeah,
• 2:57
  speaking of crazy, double h and I decided we were going to go
• 3:00
  back and rewatch Yellowstone, and I think he's picked up on that. Rip
• 3:07
  and Beth communicate very well because the other day, when all the sub's gone
• 3:13
  on with the kidney Stone and I was getting all ramped up, he goes
• 3:15
  Terry put away the crazy, which is what Rip says to Beth. Beth,
• 3:23
  I don't got time for your crazy today. I've I've always you know,
• 3:29
  I've learned in the past, like I don't know six months that folks
• 3:32
  like a nice balance. If you're all crazy, it's exhausting. Everybody's just
• 3:37
  tired. They don't want to be a part of it. Too much crazy.
• 3:39
  If you can balance it out, good stuff, good stuff. I
• 3:46
  think we need a little bit hey, well, here it comes. You
• 3:53
  always need a little bit of never mind. As they say, everybody needs
• 3:55
  a rip in their pants. But love Beth Dutton, leve me some rapp
• 4:03
  and Beth. I wish they would give them their own breakoff series. I
• 4:13
  don't. I don't feel like I have enough testosterone to watch it. Oh
• 4:17
  you should you really should and mine Ya Mara is jacked up tonight. That's
• 4:30
  okay. You still look better than me, so it doesn't matter. It's
• 4:34
  all the paint. Ah, yes, right, and you know you still
• 4:42
  owe me a paint session. I do, I do? And hold on,
• 4:48
  wait, wait a second, hold on. Yeah. So, for
• 4:54
  those who don't know, JT has agreed to shave off the beard and stash
• 5:00
  into a full face of glam makeup and he's going to let me share it.
• 5:06
  So looking forward to that day. Oh hydrating, Jilly missed from my
• 5:16
  face. I've got concealer downstairs. I've got nice, I've got getting s
• 5:26
  serious lipstick nice, I've got what else did I get? I got a
• 5:34
  whole box of makeup today. It's shanny. I don't know who sent it
• 5:42
  to me. It says I got box one of two boxes, so I'm
• 5:46
  curious to see who sent me. But it was like seventy eight eyeshadows and
• 5:50
  one thing, twelve different blushes, twelve different lip liners. I mean,
• 5:58
  it's a whole big and there's no card, so I'm hoping the cards in
• 6:03
  the other box. Hold on, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna.
• 6:12
  Oh, he hears me, and he's barking, hold on, this
• 6:15
  is Casper. He's never actually been around since I've been reporting. Oh oh
• 6:21
  yes, JT's gonna give us all the glam, all the glam. Wow.
• 6:31
  Oh nice bringing the pup our new baby. Do you want to say
• 6:41
  hi hi to everybody? Say Hi Casper. Hi. Can't eat that.
• 6:49
  Oh He's like, I am not looking at that monitor. That is just
• 6:54
  too much. You might actually sit here. Well, that's what he's supposed
• 7:00
  to. He reminds me a buster from Toy Story. Ah. Just everything
• 7:06
  about him screams bust. Oh look at Oh I love that hi body.
• 7:17
  Okay, well that's what he does. It's oh, yes, it's the
• 7:28
  Beagle in him. So Sam Sam asked to see a docs and so we
• 7:31
  were very we We thought, I still kind of think there's docs in there,
• 7:38
  primarily beagle. The length is docs in but the ears and some of
• 7:42
  the face are very bassett, and so I'm wondering if it's like a triumvirnt
• 7:46
  of crazy. We uh, you know, we tried to do This is
• 7:50
  gonna sound sad, but also it comes out okay. So we try to
• 7:54
  do the DNA test stuff for Stella to figure out what she was. I
• 7:56
  might have already talked about this and it turned out that the sam it was
• 8:00
  bad. Well, we can't resubmitted a sample for you use it on Casper.
• 8:07
  Yeah, so they send us, they send us a redo. So
• 8:11
  we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it for Casper and see kind of
• 8:15
  what he what you he's perfect and what he is? Are you okay sitting
• 8:20
  here? Are you comforty dog? So he could just sit on my lap?
• 8:28
  Okay? I love I love lap dogs. Oh I did too.
• 8:35
  I well, well, there's no way this is gonna Are you okay?
• 8:41
  Are you? Oh? Yeah, he's only been with us for like two
• 8:45
  weeks. Oh, but he's so happy. Okay, Casper, are gonna
• 8:56
  He's like, I can't hear you, lady. Dad's got on headphones.
• 9:01
  He kind of looks like Max from The Grinch. He he looks like Max
• 9:11
  from the Gridge when his face turts. But yeah, he kind of.
• 9:20
  I love it. Well, let's just protect his little ears because we got
• 9:24
  some crazy stories tonight. Yes, I'm going to go send him back out
• 9:31
  with the rest of the kids in the family. I have adhd as it
• 9:37
  is, Guys, every time I see that blanket, that tortilla blanket,
• 9:48
  it looks like blood splatter on his blanket, on his chair, and it
• 9:54
  makes me laugh j T. I was telling him, it's still makes me
• 10:00
  think that there's blood splatter on that blanket. It doesn't look like a Tortillah.
• 10:05
  Yeah, yeah, I know, So I forgot. I didn't get
• 10:11
  to mention that I've got myself a lovely matt top. Hold on, you
• 10:16
  know what this is. I've used this already. This is like Trolls,
• 10:18
  like a Trolls line of instant dry but oh you can laugh at this.
• 10:26
  The color is called hole and fun, but it's lovely. And then I
• 10:33
  also got two of these what is it called si nails, So it's full
• 10:39
  blast, which is like a reddish and then step out of line, which
• 10:45
  is like a dark blue. So I have the stuff I have of stuff,
• 10:50
  including do you have the concealer downstairs or sorry, the bass. I've
• 10:54
  got a bass down the base. Yes, I can't wait. It's called
• 10:58
  founding foundation. Liquid foundation is what I have. Hey, back in the
• 11:03
  day, that's what we called it, right, yes, and uh,
• 11:07
  also a sponge to help even that out. So I've got the things.
• 11:15
  I don't know what it's gonna look like, but I'm sure gonna make it
• 11:18
  look as nice as I can. Oh, it'll be fabulous, and uh,
• 11:24
  it'll be various. Complexion is lighter than mine. But I'm gonna find
• 11:26
  a blush or something that she's gotten we'll take. Oh, it'll work,
• 11:31
  it'll work. I lied. I have an entire palette. I have an
• 11:35
  entire palette of eyeshadow that I bought, but it's downstairs because Carrie ended up
• 11:39
  using it, which is a compliment. That is a compliment. No,
• 11:50
  Oh, I love this group. You guys are so nice and supportive and
• 11:52
  lovely. Yes. Uh, I don't know if i'd say beauty and luinser
• 12:00
  world. Uh not yet. Okay, there's out there, Yeah, oh
• 12:09
  there is. I follow Jesse Jessa I think is how he says it on
• 12:13
  TikTok. I love him. I Actually, since I started doing makeup and
• 12:18
  headlines every morning, I've had a couple of people send me comments. One
• 12:22
  was like, you need to give up. You will never be a beauty
• 12:28
  influencer. So I sent them a DM and I said, hey, wasn't
• 12:33
  planning on it. This is called makeup and Headlines. And it says not
• 12:39
  a makeup artist. People just want to feel like keyboard warriors. They're just
• 12:46
  they're so brave behind a screen. They are get in front of them and
• 12:50
  they say nothing, they do nothing. So I mean, I've just most
• 12:56
  people are just great, but there's those few Karens that you just can yet.
• 13:00
  And i'lmost the root saying Karens because there's some nice Karens out there.
• 13:05
  There's just some not so nice people. What are you drinking tonight? So,
• 13:13
  yeah, good question. So I went before I got home, I
• 13:16
  went to grab some stuff. It is beer, but this is so good.
• 13:20
  It's Three Notch Brewing and it's it's brewed in Virginia. Part of Virginia,
• 13:26
  does it say? I can't remember where three Notch is. Probably just
• 13:30
  around the corner, to be honest with you. It's next to huh,
• 13:35
  it's next to the two I said. It's next to two yes, next
• 13:39
  to two nuts. It's a it's a guava ghost, which is like there's
• 13:45
  a bit of a tart tartness to it, but it's tropical with that guava,
• 13:50
  and so it's it's yeah, it's a sour ale with guava pure.
• 13:54
  That's how they brew it, and it is I think you'd like this,
• 13:58
  to be honest, it's not that power. It is lovely. It almost
• 14:03
  if I added some sprite to it, you could confuse it with a sparkling
• 14:07
  something or another. I don't know if i'd add a beer, but I
• 14:11
  would either. But I don't know. I'm thinking, I don't know.
• 14:22
  I don't think I've ever had guava. Yeah, I don't think I've ever
• 14:28
  had guava. I had turn ups on Halloween and I had never had them
• 14:35
  before. Turn ups. That checks out. They were the original Jack of
• 14:41
  lanterns. Yeah. They were in the stew at the coven party. I
• 14:46
  did not Ah, yes, that's right, you sent me a photo.
• 14:52
  I did you send me a photo? And I think my response immediately back,
• 14:58
  which was, are you sure you're not thirty sticks? I think I
• 15:05
  said something like that you did, yeah, I mean, And my response
• 15:11
  was, do you not ever blosses on? I always have my glasses on.
• 15:18
  I'm blinded the man with adam No, I know what I see.
• 15:22
  You know. That was very kind And I'm wearing my pink week again that
• 15:26
  I wore for Halloween. I am uh. I wanted to run two stories.
• 15:37
  By you current affairs ish type stuff. If you're for it before always
• 15:46
  all right. So this happened yesterday, so it's very very recent. And
• 15:56
  there there are so many reasons why a plane would have to basically aboard a
• 16:00
  flight, turn around and land again, things like behavior or illness or you
• 16:08
  know, I can't think of actually, yeah, I can't think of anything
• 16:11
  else. This was very uh unique in that this was a Boeing seven forty
• 16:18
  seven and it was on its way to Belgium from New York and the Bowing
• 16:27
  seven forty seven cargo plane contacted air traffic control to inform them of it's yes,
• 16:34
  so inform them of some issues in their cargo hold, okay, and
• 16:41
  it was they had an animal that escaped. Ohot loose. You'd think it
• 16:48
  was a dog, okay, a cat, not a dog. No,
• 16:52
  it was a horse. Oh like a big horse. Yeah, it'll be
• 17:00
  horse. The pilot said, yes, sir, we are a cargo plane.
• 17:04
  We have a live animal horse on board the aeroplane, and the horse
• 17:07
  managed to escape its stall. We don't have a problem, as the flying
• 17:11
  wise, but we need to return to New York. We cannot get the
• 17:14
  horse back secure. He did not want to stay in his stall. So
• 17:22
  the the here's the crazy part, and the part that really sucks is that
• 17:29
  when a plane fills up, they do a lot of obviously like they do
• 17:33
  math, and I didn't come here to do gas math, but they and
• 17:37
  they fill a plane to a certain amount in order to get to where they're
• 17:41
  going, right, right, so they use that fuel along the way.
• 17:45
  Well, the problem is is that if they climb and they turn around and
• 17:48
  land, they're too heavy to land. So the plane not only had to
• 17:52
  turn around after it climb thirty one thousand feet, but then it had to
• 17:56
  dump twenty tons of fuel over the Atlantic in order to be of the appropriate
• 18:03
  weight to lad So we've got and the pilot's then heard asking air traffic control
• 18:17
  to request a vet is present when the flight lands at New York's JFK Airport,
• 18:21
  And the pilot said, we have a horse in difficulty. I don't
• 18:26
  know what that means. But what why? What? What was difficult?
• 18:33
  Well, I'm just wondering because when they landed, if he wasn't secured,
• 18:41
  did he fall forward? Did he I have so many questions. A horse
• 18:49
  is a horse, of course, of course I always thought and maybe it's
• 18:56
  just my stupidity. I always thought if they flew a horse that they had
• 19:02
  to have the horse trainer or a horse assistant stay in the cargo hold with
• 19:07
  them. That's that's what I thought, or at least a representative for the
• 19:15
  animals in the cargo. Like, this is not the first time a horse
• 19:17
  has flown to Europe, right, people do that all the time to take
• 19:22
  them to shows, apparently, right, and normally they fly with somebody,
• 19:27
  right, right, So I don't, I don't. I don't know what
• 19:30
  happened. I don't know if the door wasn't buckled appropriately, I don't.
• 19:33
  I don't know. I also don't understand why the horse wasn't sedated at the
• 19:37
  very least for at least the beginning of the flight, to avoid the stress
• 19:41
  of the takeoff. Yeah, so yeah, I don't. I don't know.
• 19:47
  I don't know. Primus landa. Yeah, so that's fascinating to me.
• 19:53
  And I only had one other thing. But no, that's I just
• 20:00
  have so many questions. Why was he alone? Why did they have to
• 20:03
  turn around? Why couldn't they get him back in? What? Well?
• 20:07
  Does that? So many questions? Was he okay back in? I know?
• 20:14
  But I want to know what was wrong with them, why they needed
• 20:17
  the fat? Does the horse you need to come live with me? Well,
• 20:25
  I'm glad they did that instead of trying to land. Yeah. But
• 20:30
  then, and I have to say, I'm surprised they turned around for an
• 20:34
  animal. That's also fair. I mean, I know some people are not
• 20:42
  this big of animal lovers, but wow. Okay, Well, I'm gonna
• 20:48
  have to look later and find out if the horse is okay, because now
• 20:53
  I'm concerned. All right, So I'm gonna read this article simply because I
• 21:03
  could do it justice summarizing it. Okay, this comes from the end of
• 21:06
  October. The Florida Man phenomenon has been an Internet maince day for around a
• 21:11
  decade, largely thanks to a Twitter account that posts real headlines detailing the outlandish
• 21:15
  behavior of individuals in the state. That person's doing God's work, So you
• 21:22
  know, are titles like Florida man desperate for ride to Hooters, calls nine
• 21:26
  one one, Florida man arrested for trying to get alligator drunk, Florida man
• 21:29
  tries to steal rack of ribs by sashing it in his pants. I think
• 21:33
  I've covered most of those on like brewery and here. But so busy are
• 21:40
  the outlandish Florida Man that there's even a Florida Man Birthday challenge where you google
• 21:44
  the trend right of your birthday and you find out what wacky Floridian was up
• 21:48
  to on your special day. A few Floridians have embraced the stereotypes that come
• 21:53
  with the strange headlines by creating the Florida Man Games. It's described as quote
• 22:03
  the most insane athletic showdown on Earth by its organizers. The games, scheduled
• 22:07
  for twenty four February twenty twenty four, WRELL involved the Evading Arrest obstacle course
• 22:12
  in which contestants jump over fences and three yards while being chased by real police
• 22:18
  officers. There will also be the Category five Cash Grab, where participants try
• 22:22
  to grasp with much money in a wind blowing booth, the weaponized pool noodle
• 22:26
  mud Duel, and beer belly wrestling. The creator the creator of the event,
• 22:33
  Pete Melfi, told The Orlando Sentinel, we thought, how can we
• 22:36
  really play on these Florida Man headlines that we hear so much about. Someone
• 22:40
  gave me the idea to make it into an athletic competition. It's going to
• 22:42
  be a wild day of mud games and Florida style obstacle courses. It's going
• 22:47
  to be going to really be an opportunity to live that Florida man life for
• 22:49
  a day. Two former stars of the hit nineteen nineties television show American Gladiators
• 22:56
  have agreed to serve as referees during the insane all day long event. The
• 23:00
  event is open to all residents of Florida, with teams entering together and competing
• 23:03
  for what organizers have referred to as the Gatorhead Trophy. They have specifically stated
• 23:08
  that quote being athletic is not required at all to enter and general admission tickets
• 23:15
  they are selling for forty five dollars a pop. Wow. I think that
• 23:22
  would be amazing to watch and just witness the insanity, right, Oh,
• 23:30
  I found the web? Hold on, I found the website. The website.
• 23:33
  Okay, I wonder if the oh I can't think of her name.
• 23:37
  Who does Florida Man Fridays on TikTok? I wonder if she's gonna do something
• 23:44
  on that. They have a you can't make this shit up. That's it.
• 23:52
  Oh, If you had a fever and you really had Flora on your
• 23:59
  mind when you went to sleep. This would be your fever dream opportunity.
• 24:04
  Let's see the games. Weaponized fool Noodle mud duel evading arrest, obstacle course
• 24:12
  Category five, cash grab, a catalytic converter, two bikes and a handful
• 24:17
  of copper pipes. Race against Time, dear Belly, Florida sumo. Oh
• 24:22
  here's the refs. They got Nitro and Ice Ladiator. I know I know
• 24:30
  who Nitro is. Yeah, this is Nitro right over here. Wow,
• 24:38
  okay, are you gonna do it? J they have Oh wait, hold
• 24:42
  on, there's a mullet contest, a Florida man pin up contest. Uh,
• 24:49
  chicken coop bingup? I can do the chicken cooping, Brawl of the
• 24:56
  Badges, officers take on firefighters and Brawl of the badges. Oh wow,
• 25:06
  Oh, mullet sign up. Oh good gracious, I'm I know at least
• 25:12
  one or two people that would be good for the mullet sign up, that's
• 25:15
  for sure. You know, I can't believe it's a thing. We should
• 25:22
  totally please sponsor this. You know how much the sponsoring is. Let's to
• 25:26
  say, how much is that sponsor? We should look into it. Why
• 25:33
  don't you get some inso well, I don't know where to get crack.
• 25:38
  But I don't know where to get cracked. Maybe we can just put a
• 25:45
  note out, maybe somebody will show up Jad driving the cycle. You right,
• 25:52
  you're right, you're right. I invented noodle Wars in Louisiana too.
• 25:56
  They did, They absolutely did. Oh yeah, that's who I was talking
• 26:06
  about. Oh man, right, that that is gonna be here. Here's
• 26:11
  what we're gonna do. We're gonna we're gonna collaborate with the Florida Man Games
• 26:15
  next year, and we're gonna do a true crime one time brew crime combo.
• 26:21
  We show okay and bring bring everybody together. Oh my, I don't
• 26:26
  know if the world is ready for that. I'm just gonna be honest.
• 26:36
  Good. Those were good, Oh see, I mean much better than the
• 26:42
  headlines I read and do every day. Well. I think there's just too
• 26:48
  much real in this world. I need some ridiculous there is. I need
• 26:53
  to know. Is there any school teachers or anyone that works in the school
• 26:59
  system, because I want to know why. Almost every week there is a
• 27:06
  headline about a female teacher and an having an inappropriate relationship with a student and
• 27:14
  I'm not talking eighteen year old students or even seventeen year olds. I'm talking
• 27:18
  like twelve, thirteen, and fourteen. And I want to know do they
• 27:26
  screen give any type of psychological testing because it seems to be happening more and
• 27:36
  more and more so. One of them that I covered this morning on Makeup
• 27:40
  and Headlines, the teacher gave the student a bracelet best Friends for Life with
• 27:48
  benefits made a friendship bracelet that's acronymed that. Yes, uh huh. I
• 27:59
  didn't even read the article. The headline was enough so push me over the
• 28:04
  edge. I just want to know why it's happening. And I'm like,
• 28:10
  is it because male students and their families feel more able to come forward that
• 28:15
  it's happening, And maybe that's why it's more predominantly in the news because I
• 28:22
  personally think it would be harder for a male student at that age, for
• 28:27
  a young adolescent male to admit that, because abuse is already hard to admit.
• 28:38
  Yeah, but I just want to know why the schools aren't. I
• 28:44
  don't know, they need to do something because they need to stop it.
• 28:48
  They just need to stop it. Yeah, I just POULI said, takes
• 28:56
  the letters out of all those beat kids. I just, I mean,
• 29:02
  the woman I want to say was forty two, any of the student was
• 29:06
  fourteen? What part of her brain thought that that was okay? And then
• 29:12
  she made a bracelet. That's the part that got me. She made a
• 29:18
  bracelet. She now has made friendship bracelets. Naughty. Oh yep, I'm
• 29:29
  gonna go have to take my kids away. Bye, You're good friendship bracelets.
• 29:34
  I just, I mean, I think there's something going on obviously with
• 29:41
  the people who do that. But as I said on my TikTok, maybe
• 29:47
  I'm crazy. Even when I was fourteen, I didn't think fourteen year old
• 29:49
  boys were attractive. So you threw rocks at them, you don't take them.
• 29:57
  But I mean, what makes an add adult think a fourteen year old
• 30:03
  attractive? It's got to be that teenage mutant ninja turtle power, Okay,
• 30:11
  that I mean, isn't the way that they say it's morphined? Yeah?
• 30:15
  Now, did you see the headlines that there's green slime happening in New York
• 30:21
  City in the subways And somebody even took one of the pictures and put the
• 30:26
  little ninja turtle sign on it. This was last week, and it was
• 30:30
  some phenomenon that was happening, and I was like, oh, why don't
• 30:34
  you go roll in it and see if you turn into a mutant ninja turtle.
• 30:40
  It was caused by what does it say? It was caused by die
• 30:45
  the plumbers. Oh, plumbers use harmless fluorescent green dye to detect leaks,
• 30:55
  so it must have been what happened. But there was a lot of it,
• 31:00
  like it was bubbling up. I guess if you're gonna put if you're
• 31:04
  gonna have to detect a leak in a large pipe system, you're gonna have
• 31:08
  to put a lot in. Okay, Well, everybody just keep a lookout.
• 31:17
  We might have some future turtles coming. Why might goalabunga. My kids
• 31:26
  will be very happy. Uh. The little one has uh has his birthday
• 31:32
  party on Saturday and it's teenage meeting Ninja turtle themed. So you know what
• 31:37
  I love is that my kids loved the Ninja turtles as well. And now
• 31:41
  they're one's thirty one ones get ready to turn thirty, and I love the
• 31:45
  fact that they're still around. But they're you know, they're kind of new,
• 31:48
  kind of different, but like what happened to Bugs Bunny? Why did
• 31:53
  Bugs Bunny go away? Why can't we bring back them? Eric? Eric
• 32:00
  Sabana, the voice of Bugs. He's phenomenal, super nice guy too.
• 32:07
  But yeah, no, the A lot of people gave the new Teenage Bemant
• 32:10
  Ninja Turtle movie flak. But I think that you just have to accept the
• 32:15
  fact that things have moved on. It's different, and it was different.
• 32:21
  Wrote it and put it together, and he did that. He did the
• 32:24
  He did the fandom justice. He did. I went and saw it,
• 32:30
  and I don't know why. I went in thinking it was going to be
• 32:34
  the exact same thing, But after watching it and like absorbing it and processing
• 32:39
  it, I was like, Okay, they did just it. They did
• 32:43
  a good job. I liked it. They brought it. It progressed,
• 32:47
  but it kept the basics. So I liked it. Was it was really
• 32:53
  nice to see the teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as teenagers, right. You know,
• 33:00
  I obviously have a soft spot in my heart for ha crossover time.
• 33:06
  Oh we hit the same thing. Oh we did at the same time.
• 33:10
  Have a soft spot in my heart for the animatronics. You know, the
• 33:13
  Jim Henson Turtles from the nineteen what's it eight eighties, early nineties, I
• 33:19
  think there were the nineties. What if I had to if you have to
• 33:23
  do something animated, this was brilliant. It was just well done, so
• 33:29
  I appreciated it. Anyways, you know, we've we've had on a lot
• 33:35
  of stuff already. But now it's time to get dark. Oh it's gonna
• 33:37
  get dark. So if you have a cocktail, I would say grab a
• 33:44
  cocktail. If not, just take a deep, deep breath because its bonkers.
• 33:52
  So I'm ready. Whenever you are, We're good to go. Do
• 33:58
  you have the video? You're up? Do I have Do I have a
• 34:01
  video? Am I supposed to have a video? Oh? Normally we have
• 34:06
  a little intro video before the case. Oh do oh yeah, well yeah
• 34:12
  I can. I can just one sec. If you don't anything out in
• 34:15
  post, if you don't have fun, I will just jump in. Okay,
• 34:21
  whatever you want to do. Hold on. I didn't think about it.
• 34:25
  It's my fault between the two of us. Have an ad D.
• 34:31
  I don't know accomplish anything so much, so much trouble. I just don't
• 34:42
  know how we get anything. I don't know how you get everything done,
• 34:46
  because you get everything done. I just struggle bust it and just strug.
• 34:53
  Oh my gosh, I'll laugh it so hard. Oh, I don't know
• 35:02
  if it's mm hm oh. While I mean JT is so great at videos
• 35:13
  and stuff. I mean, poor guy like message him, Hey, can
• 35:15
  I get videos and visuals for this, this, this, and this?
• 35:19
  And he's like, uh yeah, And then an hour later I'm like,
• 35:22
  Okay, are they done? And he's like, yeah, no it half
• 35:29
  the half the time. The reason why you text me like that is because
• 35:31
  I've forgotten to do them, so I'm gonna. I wouldn't say that.
• 35:42
  I wouldn't say that. They wouldn't. But we've seen what happens when I
• 35:47
  do videos. They're not so good. They're getting better, they're getting better.
• 35:55
  They're just very amateurish. I just it's just it's not my it's not
• 36:05
  my specialty. Yeah, all right, and finish processing and boom perfect perfect.
• 37:23
  Only thing I just now noticed and I watched that video four times.
• 37:27
  It says recorded past tense, recorded live, but it wasn't live. It's
• 37:36
  just now live. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know jun us
• 37:42
  as we record live, I suppose I don't know English. I don't write
• 37:45
  for a living. Yes I do. I'm like, uh, yeah,
• 37:50
  you do. That's okay. And guys, what go No, You're gonna
• 37:59
  say something, weren't you. Oh, so I am going to preface it.
• 38:02
  Oh we have a delay. Okay, you go ahead. I'm gonna
• 38:06
  not talk. I literally was just gonna say, let's take the focus off
• 38:14
  of me. Let's start your case. Well, okay, First I want
• 38:22
  to tell y'all I picked this case because, first of all, I found
• 38:24
  it fascinating when I learned of it several years ago. I work for a
• 38:29
  finish company and when I went the very first time, I was talking to
• 38:35
  one of my fellow coworkers and I'm like, yeah, y'all don't have all
• 38:37
  the murders and stuff that we have in the US. What is one that
• 38:42
  you think is interesting? And so he started telling me about it, and
• 38:45
  I was like ooh, ooh, ooh. And so I even told my
• 38:51
  boss that when I go next year, I want her to take me there.
• 38:55
  And I even asked her if we could spend the night in a tent
• 38:58
  and she said no, but I'm going to work on it and she helped
• 39:04
  me pronounce it, and I have it written down it is Lake Bootom Boom.
• 39:12
  Really dumb it is, so I wrote it down, So I wrote
• 39:19
  boo dumb. There's a band that's named after this called well, I always
• 39:28
  assumed it was called Children of Botomu, which is a finish melodic metal band,
• 39:34
  but apparently it's Children of Boodom. Well, my brain's exploded, so
• 39:39
  all right, But I just thought that was interesting, and I am going
• 39:44
  to work on her and hopefully, you know, we can go spend the
• 39:45
  night they're in a tent because it would be kind of cool and kind of
• 39:51
  scary at the same time. But it's so beautiful. Okay, Now you
• 39:57
  are the definition of Steven Tyler living on the edge. Well okay, But
• 40:04
  one reason that this case I found so interesting. They don't have a lot
• 40:07
  of murders like we have. I mean, it's a safe country. I
• 40:10
  mean, and I think I've talked about this before. They put their little
• 40:14
  ones outside on the balcony sidewalks and patios of restaurants, go inside and have
• 40:22
  dinner, and that two month old is outside in their prim lined up with
• 40:27
  a bunch of other babies outside the restaurant. So a murder happening there.
• 40:34
  That hasn't been solved is just to me mind blowing. But then when you
• 40:40
  hear about the case and you start getting into it, you kind of understand
• 40:45
  why it did not get solved yet. So Saturday fourth, nineteen sixty four,
• 40:53
  finished teenagers went camping at Lake Bootom. Now I'm only gonna say the
• 41:00
  first names because the last names I just I'm textan I can't. So we
• 41:06
  have my la Anya and they were both fifteen. Their boyfriend Seppo and Niles
• 41:15
  were eighteen. So my first thing, now, my first thing is why
• 41:25
  in the hell are two fifteen year old spending the night in a tent with
• 41:30
  eighteen year old boyfriends without an adult present? Because my parents would have never
• 41:38
  let me do that, and I would have never let my kids do it.
• 41:44
  I think you answered your question like five minutes ago, because it's Finland,
• 41:49
  and I guess they're safe. Guess I guess, I mean just I'm
• 41:54
  like, really, yeah, my pink would be blanket. Yeah. So
• 41:59
  that and then I'm like, Okay, if they trust people with their babies,
• 42:02
  they probably trust the eighteen year old to be respectful. I don't know,
• 42:12
  I am. I made a note to ask my boss when I talked
• 42:15
  to her next, if she, because she has three daughters, if she
• 42:19
  let them go and sleep with their boyfriends when they were fifteen, because I
• 42:25
  need to know. But that's not the point, So dear, in the
• 42:30
  early morning of Sunday, July fifth, Mila and Anja and Seppo were all
• 42:37
  beaten and stabbed to death. Nile survived his brutal attacks. Okay. Now,
• 42:45
  when question, he told police that he all he could remember was a
• 42:52
  guy wearing all black with red, bright eyes. Okay, bright eyes.
• 43:04
  Okay, so that's that just freaks me out. So but the other thing
• 43:09
  that is interesting. Niles did survive, but he suffered fractures to his jaw.
• 43:16
  Other facial bones were fractured, along with several stab wounds and a concussion.
• 43:23
  Okay, Now, that morning, a group of boys, they're like
• 43:30
  twelve years old, we're out bird watching. Okay. I find that just
• 43:37
  adorable that a group of boys are out bird watching. I just love it.
• 43:40
  But they were far enough away, but they said they saw a blonde
• 43:45
  man walking away from the teenager's tent and the tent was collapsed. They were
• 43:52
  twelve year olds, they were close enough to see everything, and so they
• 43:57
  just assumed maybe they were taking it down or whatever. So here's where it
• 44:01
  gets starts getting a little weird. Anya and Seppo's bodies were found inside the
• 44:07
  tent, but Maya and Niles were found on top of the tent on the
• 44:14
  outside, and Anya was naked from the waist down and was reported to have
• 44:20
  been the victim with the most wounds and most severe wounds. And she even
• 44:24
  had stab wounds after she died. Okay, now, yeah, so it
• 44:37
  gets it gets a little more interesting. So the teenagers were not discovered until
• 44:42
  around eleven am, and it's estimated that they died between four and six am,
• 44:47
  so they had been deceased for almost six hours. Right. Niles had
• 44:52
  a severe concussion, severe wounds, he couldn't get up and go anywhere as
• 44:57
  well. But the police botch this crime scene from the start. First of
• 45:02
  all, they did not secure the crime scene and mark it off for people
• 45:09
  to not trample on it. Okay, now, what makes it even more
• 45:16
  interesting. The attacker did the attack from the outside of the tent. They're
• 45:22
  saying he did not go in the tent. He beat them and stabbed them
• 45:29
  through the walls of the tent. I have so many questions. I know,
• 45:37
  and I have a picture. I didn't think to send it to you.
• 45:42
  There's only one picture that I found of the tent. First of all,
• 45:45
  the tent looked very small for four people, but that's another point.
• 45:50
  But everything was on the inside, So I don't know how they came up
• 45:55
  with this decision. And I'm going to just say because I don't think they
• 45:59
  did great job investigating. I don't know how they can honestly say that the
• 46:06
  attacker didn't go inside, but they're saying it happened from the outside. Now,
• 46:14
  they no one knife was used to stab all four of the victims,
• 46:16
  and they want to say that a rock maybe was used to do the beating
• 46:24
  of them. No explanation as to why, yeah, that's it. Why
• 46:30
  she was half naked, why she was on top of the tent. My
• 46:37
  only thought is she was alive, still crawled out he called out after her.
• 46:44
  I don't know. I have so many I spent hours trying to find
• 46:47
  more details. But the other weird thing, the attacker took several items from
• 46:55
  the teenagers. He took the keys to the motorcycles they were on, but
• 47:02
  didn't take the motorcycle, and took Nile's shoes, but the shoes were found
• 47:10
  about a half a mile away with some of his clothes, And how did
• 47:20
  he get he or she get them if they didn't go inside the tent,
• 47:25
  or maybe the shoes and the clothes outside of the tent. I have thought
• 47:31
  any Okay, I would love to hear them, because I yeah, I
• 47:40
  find it really hard to believe that one person was able to achieve this on
• 47:46
  all these people without any of them running away. And if he's attacking from
• 47:53
  outside, he better have a heck of a long, sharp, pointy thing
• 48:00
  in order to render them all incapacitated that they don't run, because as soon
• 48:07
  as it starts, these people, whether they want to or not, flight
• 48:10
  takes a held and they're going to try and get out of there as quickly
• 48:14
  as possible. So I don't understand how just one person was able to succeed
• 48:20
  in this, and its very evident. It's evident to me that this person
• 48:29
  has a real issue, even if it's a child, but with women and
• 48:34
  some kind of a huge aggression because the overkill of that one goal on top
• 48:40
  of the tent, whether she was My guess is I think you had mentioned
• 48:45
  this is that she left the tent, she started heading out or trying to
• 48:50
  escape, and that rendered him completely like furious, and it was not going
• 48:58
  the way he wanted it to, and so he took care of that and
• 49:00
  then placed her just on top in a display. You know, well,
• 49:07
  I think she fell back because I think of when we go camping, because
• 49:12
  I'm one of those weird people. I like to go camping, and if
• 49:15
  you stand up and you're kind of off balance and you've been stabbed and all
• 49:19
  this, you're normally you go to grab a wall or you get to grab
• 49:22
  something, you grab the tent and you collapse it. But then how did
• 49:27
  he get out her boyfriend and on top of it next to her? So
• 49:34
  it's never never answered. But it was brutal, as you could see from
• 49:38
  that picture. I mean, it was brutal. Why they did not secure
• 49:45
  the scene is beyond me, but please begin looking at potential suspects. Okay,
• 49:52
  Now, the first one was Carl Gelstrom, who was known locally as
• 49:59
  Kiosk Man, which I thought was kind of because the reason they called him
• 50:08
  kiosk Man because he owned and operated a nearby stall or as we say in
• 50:13
  the US, a corner store or a badaga, But that's what a stall
• 50:17
  is. I had to give it a goog because I was like, is
• 50:21
  it a horse stall? But did the horse escape during a flight? Is
• 50:30
  it a bathroom stall? I know? It was like wait all that,
• 50:34
  But so Carl's stall. Campers would go and visit there, but they said
• 50:38
  he was not friendly, and he was even known to have cut down tents
• 50:45
  and throw rocks at campers. But yet that's how his business made. I
• 50:53
  mean, I'm like, you're killing your customers, right, not good customer
• 51:01
  service anyway? Right? No, no, but some people said he was
• 51:07
  friendly, but most didn't. But the other thing is it was reported that
• 51:12
  Carl showed intimate knowledge of the crimes and allegedly made confessions, sometimes when he
• 51:20
  was intoxicated and others when he was stone cold sober. And guess what,
• 51:24
  the police ignored all of that, didn't really dig into it, and he
• 51:31
  later died about nine years later by suicide. He drowned. And then there's
• 51:37
  my next thing. Suicide by drowning is not easy because your body has the
• 51:47
  natural response, you know, to get air. So I was like,
• 51:54
  did he tie cinderblocks to his feet and then jump in? Couldn't swim up.
• 52:00
  I mean, did he drink too much and he drowned that way?
• 52:05
  I don't know a lot of a lot of questions. It's it's interesting that
• 52:14
  that that choice, not just suicide, but the way in which he decided
• 52:20
  to do that is interesting because it's almost as if he had made that.
• 52:22
  Whether it was conscious or unconscious, well subconscious whatever, it seems like that
• 52:29
  was chosen in order to punish himself. Could be. But like I said,
• 52:37
  I really think you drowning yourself is really hard. So I can't help
• 52:42
  but think did somebody do it to him because they thought he was the killer?
• 52:46
  And then they got away with it? Because if the police didn't investigate
• 52:53
  this, right could have been the actual killer to do it to then say
• 52:59
  well he he was guilty. He obviously killed himself. He couldn't handle it
• 53:02
  anymore and didn't want to. Yeah, that's why, I mean, there
• 53:05
  were so many things. Yeah. So now the next likely suspect that the
• 53:10
  police were interested in was Hans Assmen. And okay, guys, I just
• 53:17
  want to know, man, what would you do if your last name was
• 53:22
  Assman? Probably the same thing I would do if my last name was ho
• 53:27
  sak Uh you can cut that out of the recorded one. Though I'm an
• 53:35
  assman. That would be a wrestling reference for anybody who looks wrestling. Well,
• 53:43
  I laughed because I call Addison in the chase case ass hat. And
• 53:49
  so then to see not brackology. I didn't come here to do as math,
• 53:59
  that's right. But anyway, so Hans was rumored to be former KGB
• 54:06
  and he lived near the shores where the murders took place, and he was
• 54:09
  a recluse, and that coupled with the rumor that he was, you know,
• 54:15
  former KBG kind of made everybody think he could be a person of interest.
• 54:20
  Now here's interesting thing about him. Hans went to the Helsinki hospital the
• 54:25
  day after the attacks and was reported to have fingernails filled with dirt and black
• 54:34
  and just filthy, and his clothes were covered in red stains and he was
• 54:39
  acting nervous in a bit aggressive. Now, the police did briefly question him
• 54:49
  but didn't go any further, as they said he was able to give them
• 54:52
  an alibi. But the thing that scared me is that the police never took
• 55:00
  because close into evidence, did not test them to make sure they were blood
• 55:04
  because even back then you could see it was blood, and the doctor who
• 55:07
  treated Hans in the hospital said, those red stains look like blood to him,
• 55:14
  and guys, I trust a doctor to know what blood looks like.
• 55:21
  And he matched the description that that group of boys gave about seeing a blonde
• 55:27
  guy walk away. Hans had blonde hair and match the general description. This
• 55:36
  is it's almost like the fact that they don't have that much crime, if
• 55:44
  at all, that is, like this violent crime is what led to them
• 55:47
  not being able to do this appropriately. I almost believe the fact that they
• 55:52
  just didn't know what to do. I agree, I agree, and I
• 55:57
  thought the same thing. I'm like, Okay, if you've got a country
• 55:59
  that doesn't have stuff like that, kind of like a small town that we
• 56:04
  used to have in the US, you you're gonna have those little, small,
• 56:07
  what we call poduct towns that never have that stuff happen. So then
• 56:09
  when it does, law enforcement's not used to that. So part of me
• 56:14
  thinks that I agree. And it was the sixties, So I mean that's
• 56:20
  the other thing, right, is they could say, you know, this
• 56:23
  is this is blood, but they couldn't really test whose it was anyways,
• 56:29
  right, But they didn't even test it to say that it was blood.
• 56:34
  Yeah, I mean, but I mean it'd be an easy it'd be an
• 56:37
  easy bet that he'd be like, well, this is what happened, and
• 56:42
  that would be the end of it, right, So I don't It's weird
• 56:46
  because it also doesn't sound like and it might just be I mean, it
• 56:52
  might just be me. But it doesn't even sound like they actually checked up
• 56:59
  on the alibis. It sounds like they just gave them the alibis and they
• 57:04
  were like, okay, that works, you know, And they didn't say
• 57:09
  what his alibi was because I was like, well, maybe his alibi was
• 57:14
  that he was in the slammer, so then you don't need to, you
• 57:16
  know, really go check that too much. But they didn't say that they
• 57:21
  investigated it. And I can't imagine they looked into it too much because you
• 57:25
  wouldn't you would have taken his clothes from the hospital because you didn't have a
• 57:31
  chance to verify his alibi. Just my opinion that the hospital didn't put those
• 57:39
  clothes in a in a in a hazard bag and give him something else when
• 57:45
  he showed up there. They probably did, but if the police didn't take
• 57:49
  them, they had to send them with waste, and so they were destroyed.
• 57:54
  Just imagine if they would have kept at that and then they could do
• 58:00
  DNA on it. So now there was another person of interest who was not
• 58:07
  seen as a true person of interest, but who claimed to his fellow inmates
• 58:13
  that he was responsible for murdering the three teens. His name was Pina and
• 58:17
  I'm not even going to try to say his last name. His Sonan and
• 58:21
  something. Yeah. However, police discounted him confessing because he would have been
• 58:30
  fourteen at the time of the murders and they didn't feel that a fourteen year
• 58:36
  old could have overpowered the teens. I disagree. I disagree as well.
• 58:46
  And what if there was more than one person, What if there was two,
• 58:51
  What if there's fourteen year olds. I don't believe that it was one
• 58:54
  person. I believe that it very well could have been anybody as young as
• 59:00
  twelve. If you're catching them unawares and with an attent and you're attacking from
• 59:02
  the outside in, there is a lot that could be done. We've and
• 59:09
  I mean we have the benefit of hindsight, knowing and having documentaries on child
• 59:14
  killers who have done far greater feats of strength and It's not like there was
• 59:20
  strangling involved, which does require a lot of strength, So I think that
• 59:25
  it's very possible. I mean, this is this is literally like watching cops
• 59:31
  go frozen reference into the unknown, you know what I mean. Like,
• 59:36
  so it's just yeah, so ers are better than people. That's what I'm
• 59:42
  trying to say. Reindeers are better than people. So now, sadly,
• 59:47
  the case remained cold until March of two thousand and four, so almost forty
• 59:52
  four years after the murders, they made an arrest. They arrested the sole
• 1:00:00
  survivor of the attack, Niles Gustusson. Wait wait wait wait wait wait,
• 1:00:09
  Yeah, they looked as all the other stuff, and they said, this
• 1:00:15
  person who was fed up, definitely did it. Yep. They said they
• 1:00:21
  believed all along that he was their killer. And they said that new technology
• 1:00:30
  that wasn't available in the sixties led them to being able to arrest and charge
• 1:00:36
  him. Let me tell you what that new technology was DNA, which is
• 1:00:40
  great. His shoes, which were half a mile away, had blood of
• 1:00:49
  all of the victims on them except for Niles's DNA because his blood wasn't on
• 1:00:55
  the shoes. They said he wore those shoes to kill them. Ditched the
• 1:01:02
  shoes and then stabbed himself, broke his jaw and custom all that stuff.
• 1:01:10
  Then they came out and said, well they think yeah, but let me
• 1:01:15
  tell you that. They also said Niles and the Sepo had been drinking and
• 1:01:22
  they got into a fight, and they think Seppo hit him and that's how
• 1:01:25
  his jaw got broken. And then they all went to sleep and he woke
• 1:01:30
  up mad and did this. That's that's a lot of guessing, Like that's
• 1:01:35
  their Stephen kinging, this is what they're doing. I don't. I don't,
• 1:01:42
  Okay, mar Redy, I'll give my thoughts. Leader. Yeah,
• 1:01:45
  like I said, I considering how much they didn't look at the other people.
• 1:01:50
  I mean you always in a thing, you may have ten people that
• 1:01:53
  are persons of interest and you mark them off, but you investigate and you
• 1:01:58
  can say, oh, well they're not suspect because this, this, this,
• 1:02:01
  and this. They didn't do that with these people. But forty four
• 1:02:06
  years later they arrest him. He was married, you know, never gotten
• 1:02:12
  in trouble or whatever. So he went on trial and I here's what they
• 1:02:17
  laid out as their evidence. Like I told you about the shoes, they
• 1:02:23
  say he inflicted the wounds to himself. Okay, I don't know about you,
• 1:02:30
  but how do you give yourself a concussion? Unless you're like me and
• 1:02:35
  you try to decorate the front porch and you put the ladder on the edge
• 1:02:38
  and when you crawl on the ladder, you flip off and you break your
• 1:02:42
  ribs and you get a concussion. Other than that, how do you do
• 1:02:45
  it to yourself. I'm not gonna say I saw that video, butfinitely that
• 1:02:52
  one day I'm going to release that video, you know. So I'm looking
• 1:02:59
  kind of some of I was just kind of looking up concussions and stuff,
• 1:03:02
  and I mean, you know, although the song you know, whip my
• 1:03:06
  hair back and forth wasn't a thing. Apparently if you whip your head around
• 1:03:09
  too quickly and stop suddenly, it can give you a concussion. But here's
• 1:03:14
  the thing is nineteen sixties kid, he doesn't know about any of this stuff.
• 1:03:16
  So I just how did he fracture his jaw and break the other bones
• 1:03:22
  in his face? Ran into a tree? I don't see, That's the
• 1:03:27
  thing. I just I don't And he was seriously injured. It would be
• 1:03:32
  hard enough for a grown adult man or woman to do that to themselves,
• 1:03:37
  right, even if it meant them getting out of trouble doing this, but
• 1:03:44
  a FOURT no, it's not. I don't I don't see that happening.
• 1:03:46
  Also, he was eighteen, He was eighteen, but they said he had
• 1:03:51
  been drinking, and I was like, okay, if he was drunk and
• 1:03:57
  he got into a fight with his friend, okay, that might explain the
• 1:03:59
  broken jaw. But if it was that drunk, how did he have the
• 1:04:02
  wear with all, give himself a concussion, stab himself in places that apparently
• 1:04:09
  were hard to stab yourself, break other bones in your face, walk half
• 1:04:15
  a mile to leave shoes, half a mile back, plus kill three people.
• 1:04:23
  It It just doesn't compute for me. Now the defense team does what
• 1:04:30
  defense teams do. They tried to dispute all of it. Right, of
• 1:04:35
  course, he was found He was found not guilty good. The courts explained
• 1:04:42
  the verdict, saying that prosecution's evidence was inconclusive and failed to show that he
• 1:04:47
  had a motive. He was given forty four nine hundred pounds for his mental
• 1:04:56
  suffering, but he was denied the ability to sue the newspapers for defamation.
• 1:05:04
  And he is still alive today and he has stuck to the exact same story
• 1:05:13
  from the moment he was first interviewed till today, and he's in his eighties
• 1:05:17
  and the case is still unsolved. I think that they missed a couple of
• 1:05:28
  opportunities, especially the one guy that had information. They didn't say what information
• 1:05:35
  he had about the crimes that only the person who did it would know.
• 1:05:44
  They didn't say what that information was. But that to me, I'm like,
• 1:05:50
  how did he know information? That's so frustrated to me. I just
• 1:06:00
  I want to know kind of So, so you said forty four years later,
• 1:06:04
  which puts it at what two thousand and four right somewhere there, there
• 1:06:13
  was like a sudden public interest in the case again, which led them to
• 1:06:16
  feel pressure to then just make a move which was completely off the wall.
• 1:06:24
  There was no reason why not to believe that he was in the tent.
• 1:06:26
  They were killed in the tent, He had their blood on his shoes.
• 1:06:30
  He ran out and got away, and he was caught and shoes came off.
• 1:06:35
  Whatever. He's kicking and screaming to come back, whatever that might be,
• 1:06:40
  right, So I and and and the broken jaw, the concussion,
• 1:06:44
  those kind of things are absolutely things that could happen if he was trying to
• 1:06:48
  get away and somebody had come to get him and was fighting him to get
• 1:06:51
  him back and quiet it. So I just but here's my thing. If
• 1:07:00
  you're saying his blood wasn't on the shoes, you're saying his DNA is not
• 1:07:05
  on the shoes, right, because that's how they determine. How is his
• 1:07:11
  DNA not on the shoes if they were his shoes? Well? Yeah,
• 1:07:16
  right exactly, because I'm sorry, if we take JT's blood, my blood,
• 1:07:21
  double H's blood, your wife's blood, Okay, they're not going to
• 1:07:27
  be able to say whose blood is who. They're just going to get the
• 1:07:29
  DNA when they break it off and be able to say all of this.
• 1:07:32
  How was his DNA not on And they didn't say his DNA wasn't on the
• 1:07:38
  shoes, They said his blood wasn't on the shoes. How could you distinguish
• 1:07:43
  blood from blood in something that gory because his DNA would have popped because they
• 1:07:49
  were his shoes, right, I can't remember if you told me this.
• 1:07:57
  He with the gal that was on top of the tent, like were they
• 1:08:04
  in? Were they they were the boyfriend and girlfriend? All right, I'm
• 1:08:10
  gonna get a bit. Here's in my head. This is how this went
• 1:08:14
  down. Okay, give it there with me. So there's feign a tent.
• 1:08:23
  There's a grown ass adult who has been watching them. The lights turn
• 1:08:27
  off. Whatever they're they're going to bed, it's it's there hasn't been much
• 1:08:30
  movement. They approach, they're asleep, nobody hears anything. They start attacking.
• 1:08:36
  The three are injured enough that they cannot leave. However, eighteen year
• 1:08:44
  old what was his name again, sorry, Niles, the Niles Niles makes
• 1:08:50
  it out of the tent. He is not injured, so there is none
• 1:08:55
  of his blood on the shoes, but he does have the other's blood on
• 1:08:58
  his shoes because he was in the tent with the others. Well, he
• 1:09:01
  was injured. He was also stabbed. But here's what I'm saying is that
• 1:09:08
  somehow he got out and he was either threatened to make him come back and
• 1:09:15
  the shoes were gone, or he was he fought with the person kicked off
• 1:09:18
  the shoes, so there was only their blood and he was the shoes stayed
• 1:09:24
  there, and when he was finally stabbed, and and and and and injured,
• 1:09:30
  the shoes weren't on him anymore. Therefore, the DNA wasn't there.
• 1:09:32
  And my thought is this guy was so pissed that he got away that that
• 1:09:38
  he then tortured this kid with his girlfriend by posing putting her on top of
• 1:09:45
  the tent. You know, she was nude from from from the waist down
• 1:09:50
  and made him. Did we have any trigger alert? Uh? Trigger warning?
• 1:09:57
  Did was there any evidence? Well, they probably wun't be able to
• 1:10:00
  tell that. I wouldn't be surprised, but I wonder if there was any
• 1:10:03
  evidence or any indication that she was assaulted. They did not make any things
• 1:10:12
  on that and part of what I'm thinking, so they didn't say that like
• 1:10:15
  her pants were pulled down to her knees. They said she was nude from
• 1:10:19
  the waist down. Maybe they had hanky pinky in their sleeping bag and she
• 1:10:28
  fell asleep in her shirt because trigger alert arry true crime. Sometimes sleeps in
• 1:10:33
  just a shirt without anything on underneath. And that doesn't mean, you know,
• 1:10:44
  there's just so many things I just wanna but like I said, it
• 1:10:50
  was the sixties. They don't have those kind of crimes there they I mean,
• 1:10:57
  they even brought in they called the guard to help look for other belongings.
• 1:11:05
  People were trampling by watchers. Lookie loose were going into the tent,
• 1:11:12
  around the tent taking stuff. They literally did not secure it. They didn't
• 1:11:19
  even post a person there to keep people from going in. When they went
• 1:11:25
  back to look for more evidence, a lot of stuff was gone. Looky
• 1:11:28
  loose had taken it. So there's people out there who have pieces of evidence
• 1:11:39
  there. If again no expert, I certainly am not one, But with
• 1:11:47
  a crime like this, there's kind of two options. It was very personal
• 1:11:53
  and it was a one off and this person knew the others. Because a
• 1:12:00
  crime like this for somebody who is more along the lines of or more likely
• 1:12:04
  to be seial, this would actually I would consider this a ramp up.
• 1:12:10
  I would consider this not just a ramp up. So that what that means
• 1:12:14
  is either either it was personal or they got really effing lucky that this person
• 1:12:21
  either moved away, left the country, had a massively a four decade long
• 1:12:27
  cool down moment, you know what I mean, Like there's they kind of
• 1:12:30
  just left and went to Russia, and they're over in Russia killing people they
• 1:12:35
  could have I mean, absolutely for sure. It's just one of those things
• 1:12:39
  where it's like, I feel like this was these folks, Like this person
• 1:12:45
  knew these folks or at least was acquaintances with these folks. This was personal
• 1:12:48
  for some reason, because they would have had crimes. They would have had
• 1:12:51
  something leading up to this. What it could have been arson, It could
• 1:12:56
  have been animal abuse, it could have been something else, but they don't
• 1:12:59
  have a lot of that. Maybe there was and it's not reported, but
• 1:13:01
  I feel like there would have been. This would have been kind of like
• 1:13:05
  the climax. They would have learned and then this would have happened, and
• 1:13:11
  then maybe there was a cool down, but it would have happened again.
• 1:13:14
  So if it's anybody who who was didn't really know them, just kind of
• 1:13:19
  it was an opportunity, and this is who they chose, they would have
• 1:13:25
  seen this all over again, you know, especially since they never ever found
• 1:13:29
  the person. I don't know well. But here's the interesting thing. If
• 1:13:31
  you go back to Carl, that first suspect, the one who died by
• 1:13:34
  suicide, he's the one who had intimate knowledge of the crime and allegedly made
• 1:13:42
  confessions to multiple people, sometimes when I've drunk, sometimes when he was sober
• 1:13:47
  and police didn't look any more into it, and he was known to be
• 1:13:51
  mean to campers, So if they went into his stall to buy things,
• 1:13:59
  and maybe they mouthed off to him, you know, I mean, they
• 1:14:01
  were teenagers, for God's sake, maybe they did that. And then once
• 1:14:09
  you know, it closed down, he goes and he stalks them, and
• 1:14:12
  he sees them turn out their lights. Here's them stop making noise. And
• 1:14:17
  this was an adult, and then he takes a big rock or I mean,
• 1:14:23
  I also don't think just one person could have done it. I don't
• 1:14:26
  unless they were so drunk, the two guys to eighteen year old males,
• 1:14:31
  Unless they were so drunk that they were passed out. I don't know how
• 1:14:35
  somebody could get the jump on them from outside the tent, because let me
• 1:14:40
  tell you, I've heard a noise outside my tent. I have had that
• 1:14:44
  tin unzipped out of that tent so fast before you can even say, Terry
• 1:14:48
  stop, it's a dog. But that just just I just I got.
• 1:15:02
  And I honestly don't think unless someone comes forward confesses and tells every single thing,
• 1:15:11
  I don't think it can be solved. Because they didn't do a good
• 1:15:15
  job of collecting evidence and locking down the scene and I want to know,
• 1:15:20
  how do you know they were attacked from the outside. Yeah, I mean
• 1:15:29
  I guess maybe at that point you can analyze stabbings through a tent and see
• 1:15:34
  which way the fabric's going. But I mean, like the in the sixties,
• 1:15:43
  do you think they could do that microscope? I don't know they can
• 1:15:50
  secure a scene. They couldn't secure a scene. They couldn't put up tape,
• 1:15:57
  they couldn't put up dental floss between the trees, or they couldn't leave
• 1:16:01
  an officer there to make sure nobody trampled walked through it. The fact that
• 1:16:10
  people took stuff, LOOKI lose just help themselves. I My last thing about
• 1:16:18
  this is that I do think it was an adult, and I think it
• 1:16:21
  was an adult who had authority, because you know, fourteen, eighteen year
• 1:16:30
  old, you know they're they're going to fight back that I think an adult.
• 1:16:34
  If it was one person, it was an adult who had authority in
• 1:16:39
  which they were not going to challenge that even being eighteen, and that's how
• 1:16:43
  this person could do it. I think it it was either the fellow who
• 1:16:47
  hates campers or I think they should look within their own ranks. That's what
• 1:16:56
  I wondered. And I always hate to accuse law enforcement, but maybe it
• 1:17:02
  was somebody on the police force and that's why they didn't. I don't know.
• 1:17:12
  I just somebody wanted to see again. Okay, look this is this
• 1:17:18
  is the actual town color. Oh I saw that, and I was like,
• 1:17:23
  I didn't know who Terry Kay was. I thought they were asking somebody
• 1:17:27
  else, are you going to show the tin again? But yeah, well
• 1:17:32
  there's a better there's there's a better picture of it. And guys, they
• 1:17:38
  only took a couple of pictures before they walked off from the crime scene.
• 1:17:44
  They did not do like what we do now, and you picture everything,
• 1:17:49
  take pictures of everything before you remove the bodies. How are they gonna say
• 1:17:58
  that? Okay? You know? And someone put that they drew them out
• 1:18:01
  from inside. They were inside the tent when they were stabbed and killed.
• 1:18:06
  All of the blood and everything was inside the tent except for what was on
• 1:18:12
  the outside. After the two were on top. I said, I don't
• 1:18:21
  know how four people fit in that. I mean, you just you go
• 1:18:28
  nuts to butts. But the other thing, and I don't know if y'all
• 1:18:31
  caught this. They said she was stabbed several times after she died, how
• 1:18:40
  did she get out and get on top of the tent? So somebody had
• 1:18:46
  that out to drag what's his fit Niles back because he took off run and
• 1:18:54
  he escaped and they pulled her out. Yeah yeah, yeah, So there's
• 1:19:03
  another picture I have. Can I share my screen and I will share this
• 1:19:15
  picture if I can figure out how to do this. You would think being
• 1:19:20
  an old lady, I would know how to do this by now. I'm
• 1:19:28
  sorry, this old lady still learns new tricks. Oh, it's called present,
• 1:19:34
  not share screens. That's the problem. Yeah, it's different. Sorry,
• 1:19:40
  yet present? And then if you share the window, okay, it's
• 1:19:45
  telling me to upload a file. You haven't heard me talk like what the
• 1:19:49
  nuts to butts bit? Or what how come it won't let me? Oh
• 1:19:58
  share screen? I found out? Uh hey, I'm gonna guess Nope,
• 1:20:05
  that's not it. Uh it's not okay, guys, we're gonna do this
• 1:20:16
  and I'm gonna just pull it over. No, oh that works too,
• 1:20:23
  Can you see it? No? Okay, you just shared the window was
• 1:20:29
  the issue? Stop sharing? And then hit the Can y'all not see that?
• 1:20:40
  No? No, it's because you just shared the window and not the
• 1:20:43
  not the screen. So yeah, there you go. Now, if you
• 1:20:46
  hit present and then share screen and then click on the tab that says window,
• 1:20:55
  and then you should see whichever where the picture is that it does not
• 1:21:03
  give me that options. Okay, how about this, I'm going to just
• 1:21:09
  send it to you. It's just I have it on my computer. Here
• 1:21:14
  it is. I just dropped it and I sent it to you in a
• 1:21:15
  text. Oh you don't get text on your phone or on your computer,
• 1:21:19
  do you? If you email it to me, I'll get it and pull
• 1:21:24
  it up. Okay, now you want me to figure out how to open
• 1:21:27
  email in the middle of all this, Come on, GT No, it's
• 1:21:30
  fine. I got it. I got it. I got it. I
• 1:21:31
  got it. Did you find it? Oh? This is the and my
• 1:21:38
  problem is, Oh, then I missed it. It's okay, it's okay,
• 1:21:45
  I got it. My problem is, and I think I just forgot
• 1:21:48
  out. It's because I have four monitors. Yeah, I don't do it,
• 1:21:54
  and that's why it wasn't giving me that option. And it's because I've
• 1:21:58
  got the four monitors. So I sent it to you anyway, I got
• 1:22:08
  it. Yeah, just when you zoom in at it, and look at
• 1:22:13
  it. I just see all that blood. How was it collapsed? How
• 1:22:23
  was it collapsed? Did they put it back up to take the picture?
• 1:22:27
  Right, Yeah, they must have lifted it up in order to take the
• 1:22:31
  pictures. It does look like the stabbings happened from see. I don't I
• 1:22:35
  can't really tell. I mean, it looks like some went through. But
• 1:22:44
  I just okay, I just saw this, And that's probably why I haven't
• 1:22:55
  figured it out. Is this old lady still learning new tricks. And I
• 1:23:00
  normally turn off some of the monitors before we get on, and I didn't,
• 1:23:03
  so shame on me. But yeah, I mean, yes he is.
• 1:23:14
  He is smoking a cigar over it. Yep. It's just they're not
• 1:23:18
  even wearing gloves, guys, They're using their bare hands. Does look like
• 1:23:26
  man sandals. So I just feel sorry for the parents of these orkheads,
• 1:23:40
  and then for Niles. He got arrested forty four years later, went to
• 1:23:45
  jail, was married, had his own family, and was re traumatized,
• 1:23:51
  and they basically said, you killed your girlfriend and your friends. Man,
• 1:24:00
  I'm sorry, I don't think he did it because there's just too much.
• 1:24:05
  You can't convince me he did it unless he did it with somebody else.
• 1:24:11
  I also don't think just one person. How do you take down two eighteen
• 1:24:16
  year old males, because let me tell you, there was other campers near
• 1:24:23
  by, not like real near, but enough that I would have think two
• 1:24:28
  fifteen year old girls. If you've ever heard fifteen year old girl scream he
• 1:24:32
  would break glass, I think everybody within two mile radius would hear that.
• 1:24:39
  That's that's why I think that this person, at least one of them,
• 1:24:45
  was a person in authority, like with authority, rather something somebody in some
• 1:24:50
  kind of either law enforcement or a like a park ranger or something. Possibly
• 1:24:57
  a second person, but it just m hm, just screams somebody who could
• 1:25:04
  keep them in their place. Mm hm. But also if those are pictures
• 1:25:12
  of because if you read the article, that picture that is how the tent
• 1:25:15
  was found, how was their two bodies on that Because if there's two bodies
• 1:25:19
  on that tent, wouldn't it be on the ground. Wouldn't it have broke
• 1:25:25
  that rope they were holding it up? I mean there was would it break
• 1:25:30
  the rope? I don't know if it would have broken the rope, It's
• 1:25:35
  very possible that they were on top of it. It collapsed, but the
• 1:25:41
  rope didn't break, and so when they pulled the bodies off of it,
• 1:25:43
  the tent snapped back. Yeah. Yeah, And somebody asked who discovered them?
• 1:25:51
  A man who was walking by the lake. The twelve year old boys,
• 1:25:56
  A group of boys saw the tent, and I want to say they
• 1:26:00
  said that was around nine am and saw the blondheaded man walking away, but
• 1:26:04
  they weren't close enough to see that there was blood or anything like that or
• 1:26:09
  sea bodies. And the guy immediately called police and they said he was distraught.
• 1:26:17
  I mean, imagine walking up on that, I would have tossed my
• 1:26:21
  cookies. So I don't know. I just I think it's never going to
• 1:26:32
  be solved. I'm glad that Helsinki, finland Espo area where this is is
• 1:26:43
  still a very safe place and they've not had anything like this since because their
• 1:26:50
  police officers aren't so great at solving crimes like this. I mean, they
• 1:26:56
  would literally need to call Texas and say, hey, can we some of
• 1:27:00
  your rangers cuz we need some help, and y'all are very well experienced in
• 1:27:03
  this. Yeah. So yeah, I just that's why it is so interesting.
• 1:27:15
  And I am going to say this when I go next October, it's
• 1:27:18
  our company's ten year anniversary, so I'll be there for a full week.
• 1:27:23
  I am going to go there. I am going to try to find maps,
• 1:27:28
  even if I have time, because I usually fly in a day early.
• 1:27:31
  I'm going to go to their library there see if I can get a
• 1:27:34
  map or any newspaper articles that I couldn't find online to see where it actually
• 1:27:40
  happened. And I will go and take pictures and maybe live stream from there
• 1:27:45
  or something. But I mean, I have so many questions, like how
• 1:27:49
  far away was the stall the bodega? How many other campers were there nearby?
• 1:27:56
  How? I mean, I got so many questions. I just sent
• 1:28:01
  you a private chat that they are the GPS coordinates of the murder human you?
• 1:28:12
  And have I ever told you that I love you? I haven't told
• 1:28:16
  Ulie Lyn I love you. Now? Do you think I could get my
• 1:28:23
  boss to sleep in the exact same spot in a tent of the GPS coordinances?
• 1:28:31
  How much alcohol do you have? Let me tell you something about Finland.
• 1:28:38
  I drink a whole lot of vodka wing in Finland, and a whole
• 1:28:44
  lot lot of liquid ivy. But no, I mean, it's sad.
• 1:28:49
  And when I say I want to go, it's just because I want to
• 1:28:53
  know how far away with stuff? Because that area, from my understanding,
• 1:28:58
  is still the same. It's a light area, you know, camping area,
• 1:29:01
  tree so it's not like it's become cities and subdivisions. How far away
• 1:29:05
  were things? How? I mean, how close were they to the water?
• 1:29:11
  It just said they were on the shore. Where could they have run
• 1:29:15
  to? Could somebody have taken a boat and you know, a little John
• 1:29:18
  boat and come up and then left. There's just so many questions, so
• 1:29:30
  many questions. And did they take fingerprints of anything? Did they look for
• 1:29:35
  they checked the DNA on the shoes? Did they ever do DNA on the
• 1:29:39
  tent? Or could they not? Because they didn't secure the area and all
• 1:29:45
  of them fools didn't have gloves on, they were putting their DNA all over
• 1:29:49
  it. Oh, Polly wrong. One is the John boat a Texas thing?
• 1:30:03
  It's the little green boats that don't always have a motor. Sometimes they
• 1:30:10
  have a little trolling motor and maybe two people can fit in them, and
• 1:30:15
  you only take them out in shallow water because if they flip over, you
• 1:30:17
  need to be able to stand up. What do y'all call those anybody else?
• 1:30:24
  We call them John boats? JT. What do you call them?
• 1:30:36
  Describe it one more time. The little green boats that sometimes they have a
• 1:30:42
  motor, but it can't be very big, so it's a little jaw like
• 1:30:45
  a little trolling motor, and you have to paddle in them, and you
• 1:30:48
  don't take them out, and you can't take them out where there's waves.
• 1:30:51
  You can take them out ponds or lakes because they'll flip over, so it
• 1:30:56
  needs to be shallow. I don't know, but I'm gonna look up a
• 1:31:01
  picture. Oh, it's like a fishing boat, like a y'all. Okay,
• 1:31:08
  we call them john boats. Maybe my parents just that. No,
• 1:31:14
  it's it's that's the general name for it. I mean, okay, I
• 1:31:17
  don't know. I didn't know it was John boat. Okay. But I
• 1:31:23
  also don't really own a boat or fish, although the spammers that call me
• 1:31:28
  seem to believe that I do have a boat with boat insurance so or warrant.
• 1:31:35
  So that is my case. That is my case, and I still
• 1:31:42
  it's one that's not gonna go away for me. I really need more information,
• 1:31:46
  and I'm really thinking in the library they'll have it on microfiche or something
• 1:31:51
  like that, and I can read the actual articles because when I went to
• 1:31:56
  newspapers dot com, they did not have anything up loaded. I mean,
• 1:32:02
  maybe they didn't have a newspaper in nineteen sixty. I didn't even think about
• 1:32:05
  that. They had to I want to know about. I want to know
• 1:32:11
  who was in law enforcement, who was newer, or who was really excited
• 1:32:15
  about being in the on the team. I want to I want to I'm
• 1:32:19
  on the list of any issues that they had. Am I wrong to think
• 1:32:25
  that it would be the person that was in charge of the scene, because
• 1:32:30
  that would make sense as to why they didn't secure it. I actually think
• 1:32:36
  that they lucked out on that. I I don't see a detective being the
• 1:32:42
  killer. I see this more towards a rookie or somebody who's newer but who
• 1:32:47
  has the uniform UH and is still able to exert some level of control,
• 1:32:56
  because I think it was a younger person. I also think that this person's
• 1:33:01
  a shame to the fact. So it was almost compulsive because if they did
• 1:33:04
  indeed kill these kids from the outside in, they wouldn't have wanted to see
• 1:33:11
  what they were doing, which indicates to me a sense of self loathing or
• 1:33:18
  dislike that they have to do it. I don't know. I'm this is
• 1:33:25
  off the top of my dome, but it's I'm just trying to apply everything
• 1:33:28
  from the past, like five or six years of what I've written to this
• 1:33:31
  because it's just so fascinating. Yeah, I mean, just I have so
• 1:33:36
  many questions, and I think I'm not going to find the answers here in
• 1:33:41
  the States, because I don't think we're going to have Like I said,
• 1:33:45
  I couldn't find that they had uploaded and scanned in the newspapers, But I
• 1:33:49
  bet I could find them in the library there, because they have this beautiful
• 1:33:54
  library called the Odie They're in hell Sinki that DOUBLEH and I visited this year
• 1:34:00
  when we were there in February. I bet they have it there and I
• 1:34:04
  could spend a day in there because I also sell wine and coffee in the
• 1:34:11
  library, so I'm set make sure it's not from the stall. So yeah,
• 1:34:19
  so that's my case. It's crazy. I just have a lot of
• 1:34:24
  questions. I have a lot of questions. I wonder if Niles, I
• 1:34:29
  mean he's in his eighties. I wonder if he would talk to some little
• 1:34:31
  sweet Texas girl. If I found his phone number, I bet, I
• 1:34:39
  bet jen. My mind is a scary place. No, it is your
• 1:34:45
  mind and it's dark. Uh okay, can you think mine's not all right?
• 1:34:54
  I want to go camping there? How dark does that make me?
• 1:34:59
  And you'll notice I didn't say that double H would be going with me because
• 1:35:01
  double H I mentioned it to him and he looked at me and he goes,
• 1:35:05
  something is seriously wrong with you, Terry. I have to know something.
• 1:35:12
  And this is a very important question. Were you one of the last
• 1:35:16
  I was not because I I mean, I've seen crime scenes and I would
• 1:35:25
  not walk up to them because that is a secure space. You shouldn't touch
• 1:35:30
  it. That is evidence. That's just common sense. Oh than guys,
• 1:35:42
  Finlan, I love the culture. I love the people. It is by
• 1:35:46
  far the company I work for is the best company I've ever worked for,
• 1:35:51
  except for my own company. But the culture is just amazing. Everybody is
• 1:35:59
  so nice there. Just I love it and it's beautiful. And the company
• 1:36:03
  I work for the company colors are pink, which works really well for me.
• 1:36:15
  So how about your case, because your case is bunkers in a different
• 1:36:19
  way. Yep, yep, yep, yep, it's not uh, it's
• 1:36:26
  not that far away, but it's still is international. So let's let's just
• 1:36:30
  get into this. And and I always tell sorry to interrupt, I just
• 1:36:35
  have to say I was not born in nineteen sixty. I was not even
• 1:36:40
  a gleam in my daddy's eye. So I couldn't have been a lucky lou.
• 1:36:48
  Sorry, I couldn't have. I always used to tell my my students
• 1:36:57
  when they were writing their speeches, never to you know, don't always start
• 1:37:00
  with a quote, because people get border that. That being said, I
• 1:37:03
  started with a quote. So do as you say, not as you do,
• 1:37:11
  exactly exactly. Okay, So here's the question. Good, good god,
• 1:37:17
  he cried, Can it be? Can it be that I shall really
• 1:37:21
  take an axe, that I shall strike her on the head, split her
• 1:37:25
  skull open, that I shall tread in the sticky warm blood, break the
• 1:37:29
  lock, steal and tremble, hide, all spattered in the blood with the
• 1:37:32
  axe. Good God, can it be? So? That is from Crime
• 1:37:42
  and Punishment by Fyodor Dostaeyevski. In high school, when I had to read
• 1:37:46
  that for English, it was Crime and Punishment. However, the older I
• 1:37:49
  get, the more I appreciate the story, but it was meant to be.
• 1:37:55
  The book was a study of guilt's impact on the mind, seems like
• 1:38:00
  alienation from society, psychology of crime and punishment, the idea of the superman,
• 1:38:04
  nihilism. It's all covered in this tale of Rodion Romanovach Raskolnikov, a
• 1:38:13
  former student who is sickly and dressed in rags. But you know, that's
• 1:38:19
  just a story. This is a piece of fiction thought up by the author.
• 1:38:25
  And although it's a classic and well respected, it's a story. But
• 1:38:29
  the case that I'm talking about today actually happened, and the guilt felt in
• 1:38:32
  some respects much like the guilt felt by Raskolnikov, was the same. But
• 1:38:39
  the method of killing definitely the same. The villain a sixteen year old disturbed
• 1:38:45
  child, and the victims were his family. And this is a case of
• 1:38:51
  a failed system and it's a case that no one quote saw coming. This
• 1:38:57
  is the case of the Kosberg family murder committed by Thomas Gordon Cosburg. I
• 1:39:05
  feel like I should have started with like in a world. It is on
• 1:39:14
  my list to read, so worth it, and if you don't read it
• 1:39:23
  audiobook it I'm sure it's free at this point, okay. So. Born
• 1:39:30
  October second, nineteen forty eight, Thomas Cosberg was one of six siblings.
• 1:39:33
  His parents, Osborne and Dorothy, had six children, including Barry, Marianne,
• 1:39:39
  Gail, Vincent, Osborne Junior, and Thomas. They lived in Vancouver,
• 1:39:44
  Canada at one forty two East twenty second Avenue. The house is still
• 1:39:48
  around. It's five bedrooms, three and a half bathrooms, and twenty two
• 1:39:53
  hundred square feet of living space. I'm not sure where they put it all
• 1:39:59
  in the house or on that lot, but there you have it. That
• 1:40:02
  house now in Vancouver would probably go for a cool one point two or one
• 1:40:09
  point three million, possibly more, because that's the real estate in Vancouver.
• 1:40:18
  Kosberg attended General Wolf Elementary School and Sir Charles Tupper Secondary School, where he
• 1:40:26
  spent time learning how to sell market and burp tupperware. No wait, that's
• 1:40:31
  not right. Hold on, I forget I said that. Uh. When
• 1:40:36
  crimes happened, many times, the media order the police will question those that
• 1:40:42
  knew the suspect or family. This case was no different, and neither were
• 1:40:45
  the answers. Quote. According to friends, the Cosburgs were a close and
• 1:40:48
  happy family and the children would do everything for their parents. Cosburg himself was
• 1:40:54
  described as a nice kid. Sure, nice kid, So is Jeffrey Dahmer.
• 1:41:00
  Whether he was nice or not, yeah right, Whether it was nice
• 1:41:03
  or not had no bearing on the fact that what he did have was a
• 1:41:06
  history of mental illness. And more on that later. And once he lived
• 1:41:11
  at a residence for disturb boys run by the Central City Mission, and the
• 1:41:15
  supervisor there, Robert Estergard, said that he got along well with everyone,
• 1:41:18
  but kept running away from the home and the mission. So I got curious,
• 1:41:24
  like Alice in Wonderland, and I decided to look up a little more
• 1:41:27
  about Central City Mission, and, believe it or not, foundations still around.
• 1:41:32
  So it started in nineteen oh seven with a small group of neighbors who
• 1:41:35
  wanted to start a mission for poor and unemployed men in the inner city of
• 1:41:39
  Vancouver. In nineteen oh nine, Central City Mission was incorporated and two days
• 1:41:44
  later the Board of Directors made a deposit on the property at two thirty three
• 1:41:46
  Abbott Street, which is still there today. The cornerstone was laid in nineteen
• 1:41:51
  ten and the building was used by the Mission for eighty three years. It's
• 1:41:55
  now an apartment building because of you know, capitalism and overpopulation in the nineteen
• 1:42:03
  I was very apparently like Nippy when I wrote this. In the nineteen fifties
• 1:42:13
  and sixties, new programs were started by the Foundation. In the early fifties,
• 1:42:17
  the Mission opened a number of group homes for young men who needed housing
• 1:42:20
  while being treated for mental health problems. And this is where Thomas Cosberg spent
• 1:42:25
  some time when he wasn't trying to run away. Now, I should note
• 1:42:30
  that there's no indication that I found of mistreatment or ill will around his time
• 1:42:33
  at the Central City Mission. I think that's important to note. In addition,
• 1:42:38
  Cosburg was also treated by doctor Bennett Wong, who saw him for six
• 1:42:42
  months. Now, according to the doctor quote, Cosberg's mental disorder dated back
• 1:42:45
  to nineteen sixty one, and his last treatment was about a year prior to
• 1:42:49
  the murders. In January of nineteen sixty four, he was admitted to the
• 1:42:56
  Crease Clinic, a mental institution part of the Review Hospital. He may have
• 1:43:00
  been there in nineteen sixty one as well. Riverview Hospital and the Creased Clinic
• 1:43:04
  are fascinating pieces of British Columbia history. For better or worse. It was
• 1:43:11
  a Canadian mental health facility based in Coquitlam, British Columbia. The Royal Hospital
• 1:43:18
  in Victoria was converted to British Columbia's first facility to how's mentally ill patients in
• 1:43:23
  eighteen seventy six. There will be a theme of overcrowding, reduced funds,
• 1:43:28
  promised funds, false promises, overcrowding, and shut down. So you no
• 1:43:33
  appropriate to theme due to overcrowding. In nineteen oh four, the government purchased
• 1:43:36
  one thousand akers in Coquitlam for the construction of Riverview Hospital. Now I'll give
• 1:43:43
  you an example of overcrowding. In nineteen thirteen, a permanent mental hospital was
• 1:43:47
  completed. It was opened to treating three hundred seriously mentally ill patients. The
• 1:43:53
  building was built ahold four hundred and eighty patients and by the end of the
• 1:43:56
  first year it housed nine hundred and nineteen. Holy MACARONI. Yeah, and
• 1:44:04
  these aren't like mildly Now, these aren't mild cases. The question just because
• 1:44:13
  I was raised during a period when people I was raised believing that people were
• 1:44:19
  put into homes like that who maybe just were bipolar or had depression, and
• 1:44:26
  then they were kept there. But you're saying these individuals had severe mental disorders
• 1:44:36
  or were they drugs that way? Yeah, I'm going off with the description
• 1:44:42
  in some of the research that I found out. That is not to say
• 1:44:45
  that some of these folks weren't put in because their parents just couldn't handle them,
• 1:44:53
  or their family didn't want to deal with it, or For instance,
• 1:44:57
  the acute psychopathic unit opened in nineteen twenty four due to overcrowding, and there
• 1:45:01
  was a six hundred and seventy five bed female chronic unit opened due to overcrowding
• 1:45:05
  as well. Now I don't know nineteen twenty four they could have submitted the
• 1:45:12
  women to that unit simply because they were reading, you know what I mean?
• 1:45:16
  Like, there were so many reasons why people just put people away.
• 1:45:20
  And I left because I'm uncomfortable, because it's really sad. Can I send
• 1:45:25
  my ex husbands there? Both of them? I mean, it's not really
• 1:45:30
  around, but sure, I mean why not? Yeah. By nineteen fifty
• 1:45:35
  six, the hospital reached forty three hundred patients. Now this is after they
• 1:45:41
  expanded, but still a lot. From nineteen sixties on, there was a
• 1:45:46
  steady decline in beds. Eventually, in two thousand and four, it was
• 1:45:49
  eight hundred beds. That's where it stopped. The hospital was closed, but
• 1:45:54
  once it was closed to his added to the Canadian Register of Historic Places in
• 1:45:59
  two thousand and nine, but the land continued on being location for other mental
• 1:46:03
  health facilities. Quote. The construction of the provincially funded one hundred and one
• 1:46:09
  million dollar Mental Health and Addiction Treatment Center treatment facility on the river View Grounds
• 1:46:14
  began in twenty seventeen and as planned to open its doors in twenty twenty one.
• 1:46:17
  It will house one hundred and five patients and provide specialized care for adults
• 1:46:21
  with severe and complex mental health and addiction challenges. So we're lessening the population
• 1:46:29
  of okay people, increasing the care. I'm so suck on this. Forty
• 1:46:32
  three hundred they've really be There's no way there was forty three hundred people with
• 1:46:42
  that level of disorders or am I just naive? Well again, I don't
• 1:46:48
  know if every single one of them had I mean, did they put women
• 1:46:53
  there because they were pmsing and their husband didn't want to deal with it?
• 1:46:59
  I don't know. I mean, there were so many reasons that folks were
• 1:47:03
  just like I can't handle you right now, you know, I've read about.
• 1:47:08
  I'm glad I didn't live there and I wasn't born then, because Issa
• 1:47:13
  would have been left there, My crazy would have been put in there.
• 1:47:19
  Yeah, but if you look up pictures of Riverview Hospital, your senses basically
• 1:47:25
  are going to be attacked with creepy. It's extremely haunted if you believe in
• 1:47:30
  that kind of stuff. In addition, the hospital campus is used for filming
• 1:47:33
  all the time, as multiple sites and locations provide a lot of opportunities.
• 1:47:39
  Here's some of the films that were actually filmed on that land and around that
• 1:47:43
  hospital, Watchman, Supernatural, The X Files, Arrow ELF, Smallville,
• 1:47:48
  Happy Gilmore, The Butterfly Effect, and Deadpool two. Elf. Did you
• 1:47:56
  just say Elf? I did Van Vcouver, and this kind of area is
• 1:48:02
  very well known for doing a lot of movies. It's just like North Carolina.
• 1:48:06
  There are a lot of breaks for production crews because they're bringing jobs in,
• 1:48:12
  so it's very popular to film in North Carolina. That's how I ran
• 1:48:15
  into Owen Wilson when he was filming eBay, and then Vancouver's kind of the
• 1:48:21
  same way. So, yeah, as much as we could talk about Riverside
• 1:48:29
  Hospital, which honestly probably should be a theme. It's history, and we
• 1:48:32
  can also talk about the Nefarios stuff that went on in the early twentieth century,
• 1:48:36
  keeping in mind that they were labeled lunatic asylums not long before that.
• 1:48:41
  But let's talk about Thomas so. On December ninth, nineteen sixty five,
• 1:48:45
  according to a statement read during his trial, Cosberg bought a bottle of sleeping
• 1:48:48
  pills twenty five pills to be exact. His family was in the living room
• 1:48:53
  watching TV. Along with his mother's friend, Florence. Cosburg made the family
• 1:48:58
  chocolate milkshakes laced with the U and all I'm saying is, if you mess
• 1:49:02
  with my chocolate milkshakes, Lord, have mercy on your soul. That's all
• 1:49:08
  I gotta say. He can't come back and haunt you. Yeah, so
• 1:49:14
  premeditated, right. The bottle was later found by police, which corroborated the
• 1:49:18
  story well. At the same time, they found absolutely no traces of bromide,
• 1:49:23
  barbituates, so or alcohol in his family systems. Now, I'm not
• 1:49:27
  sure if that's because there wasn't anything, or because they just didn't have the
• 1:49:30
  testing capabilities to find exactly what they should have been looking for. I'm also
• 1:49:34
  not sure as the half life of the medication, there's a chance that could
• 1:49:38
  have been out of their system by the time the examinations were performed. So
• 1:49:45
  the family friend Florence, she woke up at eleven PM and she left for
• 1:49:48
  her home in a taxi, and Cosberg suggested that she stay for the night,
• 1:49:51
  but Florence declined, and that my friends, all my friends is called
• 1:49:59
  dodging a bullet or ducking an axe, which could be seen in poor tapes.
• 1:50:08
  But here we are. Uh So Cosberg waited for his father to return
• 1:50:14
  home. He was a truck driver for Allied Heat and Fuel Company, and
• 1:50:17
  he walked in the door at one am on December tenth. His family was
• 1:50:21
  asleep, and he found a milkshake with his name on it. I assume
• 1:50:29
  not literally. That would be really weird if he found a cup with quote
• 1:50:31
  Daddy's milkshake on it, too many boys would be coming to that yard.
• 1:50:35
  So we're not gonna we're not gonna think about that too much in either case,
• 1:50:41
  and all jokes aside. He drank it and he went to sleep.
• 1:50:45
  Around four in the morning, Cosberg went into the basement and grabbed a double
• 1:50:49
  bitted axe, which is basically a double headed axe. I don't. I
• 1:50:55
  mean, I do know. You know, you've got your your your wood
• 1:50:58
  burning stoves and things like that, so that would be why. But my
• 1:51:00
  thing is like, why, I don't know, an axe in the basement
• 1:51:06
  with all those kids just seems like a bad idea. But I'm not.
• 1:51:10
  You look like you're having a hard day. Yes, a double handed ax.
• 1:51:16
  So there's the axe thing on both ends of the stick. How did
• 1:51:23
  you know? Well, yeah, so yeah, you're you're correct. Where
• 1:51:29
  where normal flat end would be is where another other? So how do you
• 1:51:33
  hold that heads on both sides? Okay? But when you go to do
• 1:51:42
  that and it slings back, it goes into the back of your head.
• 1:51:45
  But I've never actually chopped like this. It seems like a bad idea,
• 1:51:53
  Terry, even with a flat I've never been allowed to hold an axe.
• 1:51:58
  Okay, I barely allowed to hold the kitchen knives. So now we know
• 1:52:02
  why, because I would literally chop would I would think that you would do
• 1:52:08
  it like that over your head so that you can have enough arm power the
• 1:52:16
  same you can get the same going from your shoulder and then up and oh
• 1:52:19
  boy, but even if I went over my shoulder and would go into my
• 1:52:24
  back. See hence why double H does not like me to handle sharp objects,
• 1:52:36
  even a hammer. I'm allowed to use a hammer. That's this bag.
• 1:52:42
  I'm so happy. Okay, I was just confused. I was just
• 1:52:47
  confused, and her forehead apparently, you know what, guys, I am
• 1:52:57
  an ass, double H. When we got a home depot this next time,
• 1:53:00
  if I can get a double headed axe so that I can see what
• 1:53:08
  he says, you already have a double headed act and he'll turn around and
• 1:53:10
  show you. But I don't know. I'm sorry, double H for you
• 1:53:27
  having to edit all this love it? Are you kidding? I am not
• 1:53:31
  letting him touch this. This is golden. This is going to be one
• 1:53:35
  that's released on the pod as a live stream with no double H editing.
• 1:53:43
  Here's what we need to do. I am going to film myself doing the
• 1:53:45
  makeup, and you need to film yourself attempting to chop wood, okay,
• 1:53:50
  and me asking to buy said acts. Yes, yes, all of it,
• 1:53:57
  all of it all right. I mean he just bought me a senior
• 1:54:00
  citizen ladder to decorate for Christmas. That tells you how klutzy I am.
• 1:54:11
  You know what k is there a way to share videos on the community page
• 1:54:20
  of our YouTube without it going to everybody, without it going to everybody,
• 1:54:29
  Like I wanted to get everybody in the community, but like only people who
• 1:54:32
  subscribe, because I was thinking I could release the video of me on this
• 1:54:36
  ladder and then people might understand why I'm not allowed. Yeah, I think
• 1:54:44
  you can actually change the visibility. I'll have to check though, Okay,
• 1:54:46
  check that, because then people might understand why keep going. Sorry to interrupt,
• 1:54:53
  but I was really confused trying to figure out how he didn't kill himself.
• 1:55:00
  And I'm still not sure I understand, but okay, keep going,
• 1:55:03
  all right. So we're we're about to head south. So the next sentence,
• 1:55:10
  it's a really there's no good segues are weird, both the transportation device
• 1:55:15
  and this he so he went on to kill his family. He attacked his
• 1:55:19
  siblings, and then he turned to his parents. According to police, for
• 1:55:24
  or of the five, four of the five initial fatalities died in bed without
• 1:55:28
  a struggle. All of the victims were hacked in the head multiple times,
• 1:55:31
  causing somevere skull and brain injuries. However, according to the pathologists, none
• 1:55:39
  of them died instantaneously. The only member of the family that did not die
• 1:55:46
  right away was his uh well, hold on, sorry, yeah. The
• 1:55:51
  only fam member of the family that did not die right away was his six
• 1:55:55
  month old brother, Osborne Junior. He chose to attempt smothering him. I'm
• 1:56:00
  not entirely sure why. I'm sure there's some pathological psychological reason for it,
• 1:56:06
  the same as using the acts and having them be asleep while he did it.
• 1:56:11
  But you know, Thomas Cosberg is a real winner. Right after he
• 1:56:16
  murdered his family, he changed his clothes as one does. Then he took
• 1:56:20
  his father's car and immediately ran it right into a power pole. Then he
• 1:56:26
  stole another car. Then he phoned Robert Estergard, the youth director of Central
• 1:56:30
  City Mission mentioned before, to take him to doctor Wong, and ended up
• 1:56:33
  seeing doctor Wong, the doc who saw him prior to the murders for six
• 1:56:36
  months. Esterguard said that Cosberg was trembling, having cramps and kept holding his
• 1:56:42
  stomach, but at times he'd also drift off to sleep. They got to
• 1:56:46
  doctor Wong's at seven am on the same day of the murders. He told
• 1:56:49
  doctor Wong that he did something awful, which is the understatement of the nineteen
• 1:56:55
  sixties, and if you know anything about the history of the nineteen sixties,
• 1:56:59
  a lot of a lot of understatements, so that one takes the cake,
• 1:57:03
  that's yeah, yeah. Forty five minutes later, once he arrived at doctor
• 1:57:10
  Wong's, you know, at seven forty five, the police were called and
• 1:57:13
  he was arrested shortly thereafter. Officers arrived on the scene. They found Cosberg's
• 1:57:19
  mom and dad in their beds, His brother lay on the floor. His
• 1:57:21
  brother was in the crib, seemingly unharmed. One of his sisters was found
• 1:57:26
  in the rear bedroom, one in the front bedroom. His sister, Mary
• 1:57:30
  Anne, who was in the same room as another who died, was still
• 1:57:31
  alive in her bed, but she had some extremely serious ted injuries and she
• 1:57:36
  would die nine days later. Krosburg arrived at juvenile court and was charged with
• 1:57:43
  five counts of juvenile delinquency and connection with capital murder. On December fourteenth,
• 1:57:47
  he was declared mentally ill and was committed to Riverview Mental Hospital until his partial
• 1:57:51
  or complete recovery or until further order. Because Canada. Now, if if
• 1:58:00
  there's any question about the insanity defense, and I've said this before in typical
• 1:58:02
  cases. The rate of this defense used is like one percent of the time,
• 1:58:05
  and it works like a quarter of that one percent. The defense consists
• 1:58:11
  of two factors, mental illness and the resulting incapacity. And the best known
• 1:58:16
  and oldest of Canada's insanity tests is the McNaughton test, and this is based
• 1:58:20
  partly on the defendant's incapacity to appreciate the implications of the act. And the
• 1:58:25
  offender might have known that what they were doing, or they may understand the
• 1:58:29
  consequences, but the will of stopping was overpowered. Now there are two factors
• 1:58:34
  here. One Canadian law presumes sanity and the defense must disprove this presumption.
• 1:58:40
  And two, the end result of successful insanity defense means an indeterminate confinement to
• 1:58:46
  a mental institution. Now, his trial in nineteen sixty seven lasted only a
• 1:58:51
  couple of hours. He pled not guilty, but he did admit that he
• 1:58:56
  attacked his family with an ax after putting them to sleep with sleeping and nokshakes.
• 1:59:00
  Well, don't wait, quote, did you say a couple of hours?
• 1:59:04
  Hours? Was only a couple of hours? Yeah, that's not a
• 1:59:12
  trial, Okay, it's a confession, all right. So quote. Two
• 1:59:25
  psychiatrists testified that he suffered from a mental disturbance when he committed the murders,
• 1:59:30
  preventing him from appreciating the nature and quality of his actions. One of them,
• 1:59:32
  doctor Joseph Thomas, described Cosburg as an automatic person, capable of carrying
• 1:59:38
  out a complex and deliberate plan, but who was incapable of discerning right from
• 1:59:42
  wrong. He also believed that Cosburg was suffering from a schizophrenic reaction and that
• 1:59:46
  his mental disorder had reached an uncontrollable state on the night of the murders.
• 1:59:50
  Apparently, when Cosburg went to talk to doctor Wong right after the murders,
• 1:59:55
  he thought he was morally justified, so that kind of into it. Cosburg
• 2:00:00
  was found not guilty by reason of insanity on February sixteenth, nineteen sixty seven.
• 2:00:06
  No, here's the difference between this is not America where we're at.
• 2:00:18
  We're in Vancouver, Canada, and Canada does things differently. But here we
• 2:00:25
  go. This is a case of somebody who is actually treated, who is
• 2:00:30
  actually looked after, who things actually improve for them. So just over a
• 2:00:38
  year later, in September of nineteen seventy seven, Cosburg was declared to pose
• 2:00:41
  no danger to society and was ordered to be released on the conditions that he
• 2:00:45
  lived in an improved place in British Columbia and had to report to an official
• 2:00:49
  once a week after his release. Out yep, because Canada, doesn't I
• 2:01:01
  mean, if they what if he stops taking his mets, isn't he a
• 2:01:06
  danger again? So here here's my last two sentences. Okay, sorry.
• 2:01:15
  After his release he was married, and then he worked for Vancouver Children's Hospital
• 2:01:20
  for thirty years and he died January first, twenty sixteen. No other problems,
• 2:01:31
  yep, Okay. There are so many cases of this in Canada,
• 2:01:38
  where they are put away for a certain amount of time with the understanding that
• 2:01:45
  if they can improve our are taken care of. Are able to show dramatic
• 2:01:53
  improvement where they pose no danger, they get out and they live perfectly fine.
• 2:02:00
  In fact, the guy who I don't remember this story, I just
• 2:02:04
  gotta stop. I mean, oh, I love that he got the help
• 2:02:13
  in therapy he needed and he did better. What about consequences, I don't
• 2:02:24
  think A year I know, but a year I don't would probably be worse
• 2:02:33
  than I just I mean, because I believe people need second chances. But
• 2:02:40
  I also believe in consequences. And in his case, it sounds like he
• 2:02:47
  truly had a mental break and when they fixed that break, and they used
• 2:02:53
  gorilla glue to fix that break, the break was never coming back. Did
• 2:02:59
  that make sense? Yeah, okay, Yeah, So I do like that.
• 2:03:02
  Canada does that. They do believe and reform. They do believe in
• 2:03:09
  fixing what's wrong with the person. So I do appreciate that. I just
• 2:03:15
  I hope my life is worth more than a year for somebody's consequence. I
• 2:03:23
  mean. The other the other thing that I think really assisted in this,
• 2:03:30
  in that and that that defense of of not guilty by reason of insanity was
• 2:03:34
  the fact that he was in and out of mental institutions for years before this
• 2:03:39
  happened. What was he diagnosed with was was he schizophrenic? And he took
• 2:03:45
  meds and he no longer heard voices? Did they? I mean, do
• 2:03:48
  you know? Yes, let you see if I can find it real quick.
• 2:03:56
  I mean, I I mean, I'm glad, but I I don't
• 2:04:04
  know how you say someone is not a threat. After that, I I
• 2:04:14
  got a lot of meals. Yeah, they they determined that he was suffering
• 2:04:19
  from a schizophrenic reaction to something, but that his mental disorder overall had reached
• 2:04:26
  an uncontrollable state and that's what led to it. That's all that that I
• 2:04:30
  can that I can see right here now. But question, what was his
• 2:04:35
  check in? You said that he still had to do some sort of check
• 2:04:39
  in. Was that like he had to check I'm guessing it was either a
• 2:04:45
  parole situation or it was a doctor or some kind of specialist that was from
• 2:04:50
  the government, which is literally pretty much every healthcare And then what did he
• 2:04:55
  do with the children's hospital? I mean, I'm I'm a hope, and
• 2:05:01
  you tell me he worked at night in a room where he didn't have access
• 2:05:05
  to children. Please, I mean, it all turned out okay, but
• 2:05:12
  still, here's here's here's his here, here's his obituary. Thomas worked for
• 2:05:19
  Vancouver Children's Hospital for thirty years. He really enjoyed working at the hospital and
• 2:05:24
  the friends he made there. Thomas left us to be with his beautiful wife,
• 2:05:27
  Maggie, who died September seventh, twenty fourteen. In this world,
• 2:05:30
  Thomas had a large extended family and many loving friends. He will be missed.
• 2:05:34
  Thomas's wishes were for no funeral service and rememberance. If Thomas a donating,
• 2:05:39
  excuse me, a donation to the children's hospital or charity of your choice
• 2:05:42
  would be appreciated. This would put a smile on his face, and we
• 2:05:45
  all loved his smile. If you wish to send him condolence, post photos,
• 2:05:47
  or share a memory, oh please scroll down. Let's see if there's
• 2:05:53
  anything that people wrote. So Shanka asked she thought he was in for ten
• 2:05:57
  years. I mean, I'll be honest, ten years, I'd feel a
• 2:06:00
  little bit better than I would one one just beforehand. But no, he
• 2:06:09
  was not. I'm trying to think of Oh wow. His younger brother Osborne
• 2:06:20
  commented on this obituary that said love from your family, and he posted a
• 2:06:25
  picture of the family, so his family forget. I mean, I've got
• 2:06:31
  the heartworms from that. But then I've got the other side saying what if
• 2:06:36
  he would have had to break again? And I'm glad he didn't, But
• 2:06:42
  I also think a year's not as punishment. I may or may not have
• 2:06:49
  I may or may not have missed a zero SHUNKA might have called me out
• 2:06:53
  on it appropriately, So so let me just make sure. Okay, that
• 2:06:57
  makes me feel so much better. Yes. Ten years later, jeez,
• 2:07:04
  Louise Jake cant math so yes. So he was found not guilty by reason
• 2:07:10
  of insanity February sixteenth, nineteen sixty seven. He was released September nineteen seventy
• 2:07:15
  seven. Oh that makes me fil okay, ten years of therapy, medications
• 2:07:24
  working on yourself. I can get on board with that. One year I
• 2:07:28
  was struggling to get on board with it. I'm gonna be honest. I
• 2:07:31
  was thinking that they needed to do a psych check on the person who said
• 2:07:35
  he could get out after a year. I was really bothered by here.
• 2:07:41
  Ten I am so much better. Thank you, Shanka. I will be
• 2:07:45
  able to sleep tonight. The years are literally staring me in the face and
• 2:07:49
  I still just could. It's okay, it's all that gas math did your
• 2:07:56
  brain in great? Tell me about it? Yeah? You know? There,
• 2:08:05
  you are correct. I do not do zeros at all. Yeah,
• 2:08:11
  I there. There's a lot of arguments on Booth says. I don't know
• 2:08:15
  if you remember this story. Do you remember the story about the guy who
• 2:08:18
  who hopped on a bus with a sword and attacked a dude? Yes,
• 2:08:24
  okay, so that happened in Canada, right and the same situation happened where
• 2:08:26
  he was now not guilty by reason of insanity, and he ended up being
• 2:08:30
  released and he hasn't had an issue since. So, but didn't he have
• 2:08:35
  a psychotic break from medication? So he he was on you know, he
• 2:08:43
  had health mental health issues, was taken the medication, there was a reaction
• 2:08:48
  caused a psychotic break, and once they took that medication away, he was
• 2:08:52
  deemed not to be a threat anymore. So that I can understand. I
• 2:08:56
  mean, just like a woman who goes postpartum depression, once she gets treated
• 2:09:03
  for that and all the hormones get back to where they're supposed to be,
• 2:09:07
  she's not a threat unless she has another yes, So yeah, in that
• 2:09:13
  case, the fella who was twenty two, Tim McLean, he was stabbed,
• 2:09:18
  beheaded and cannibalized all while riding Grayhound Canada bus. So he was found
• 2:09:26
  This was Vince Lee. He was found not guilty by reason of insanity.
• 2:09:33
  He accepted that the offense occurred, but claimed he was unable to form the
• 2:09:37
  necessary mental element of mensraea. It was schizophrenia. He was inculpable. He
• 2:09:45
  believed that McLean was a force of evil imposed and imminent threat to himself and
• 2:09:48
  others. They he thought H. McLean was a demon in disguise and an
• 2:09:52
  alien who needed to be destroyed, to the point in which it felt necessary
• 2:09:56
  to mutilate his body to prevent him from coming back to life. Let's see,
• 2:10:03
  here we go. So this that happened. So the trial commenced March
• 2:10:07
  third, two thousand and nine. By June third, twenty ten, Lee
• 2:10:09
  was granted supervised outdoor walks with his mental health facility. Within his mental health
• 2:10:15
  facility. On February sixteenth, twenty eleven, Nope, that doesn't work.
• 2:10:20
  Hold on okay. May thirty, twenty eleven, Lee was responding well to
• 2:10:26
  his treatment, and his doctor recommended that he received more freedoms May seventeenth,
• 2:10:33
  twenty twelve, which is what I don't know. Three four years afterwards,
• 2:10:37
  he was granted temporary passes that allow him out of the mental health center for
• 2:10:41
  visits to the town of Selkirk, supervised by nurse and peace officer. By
• 2:10:52
  by twenty fourteen, he was allowed to have unsupervised visits to Selkirk and he
• 2:10:58
  was discharged in twenty seventeen, granted an absolute discharge, no legal obligations.
• 2:11:07
  Or restrictions pertaining to his independent living. And nothing's happened since then from him,
• 2:11:13
  So I don't know. Either's just there seems to be. I mean,
• 2:11:20
  what they're doing work. Sorry, guys, I'm a little nervous right
• 2:11:28
  now. When I wiggled my chair, a screw fell out on the floor
• 2:11:35
  from my chair. Oh, and I'm worried then my chair is just gonna
• 2:11:41
  break it. I'm gonna go boom on the floor. You need repair man,
• 2:11:50
  men, men, men, men, men, men. So No,
• 2:11:54
  I mean, I do, like I said, I do believe in
• 2:11:58
  treatment works. I know it works. Like I said, once I found
• 2:12:01
  out ten years for Thomas, I felt much better. And that explains why
• 2:12:07
  I just don't think a year was enough, but ten years. But I
• 2:12:11
  do. I do believe that people can change when they get the therapy they
• 2:12:18
  need and if they truly want to change and they have the medication. No,
• 2:12:24
  I agree, And this is a really good example of why content creators
• 2:12:31
  should always remain humble, and not only that, but allow the folks that
• 2:12:37
  watch and listen to correct them when they're wrong. It is okay to be
• 2:12:43
  corrected, absolutely because guess what, I so my cousin's that's funny. So
• 2:12:58
  my cousin Case who was murdered that I covered on the pod before we teamed
• 2:13:05
  up, they did a snapped episode about it. The things that were wrong
• 2:13:13
  in the snapped episode are shocking, and they were told before it aired that
• 2:13:24
  they were wrong, and they didn't change it. So I believe we all
• 2:13:30
  can make mistakes, and especially I mean, you know, when we research
• 2:13:35
  cases, you can read three different news articles and get three different facts on
• 2:13:39
  the same thing. And that's why I tend to go to court files and
• 2:13:43
  you know, pay to get those or do the requests. But we can
• 2:13:48
  all make mistakes. At the end of the day, We're still humans.
• 2:13:52
  And like I said, I'm glad it was ten years because if it was
• 2:13:56
  only one, I just I was gonna have to mess sage Mike over at
• 2:14:01
  Brute Crime and say, what is wrong with your effing country? But now
• 2:14:05
  I can tell Mike I still love him nothing other than oh no, every
• 2:14:13
  country has problems, and that's what I try to remind people. There is
• 2:14:18
  no perfect country because there's humans involved. Right now, I do have a
• 2:14:28
  question, and I don't know if you found this, Sorry guys, something
• 2:14:31
  in my eye in the research his brother Osborne, who was the six month
• 2:14:37
  old that lived. He obviously doesn't remember because he was too young. Did
• 2:14:45
  he get some kind of mental therapy and help, because even if you don't
• 2:14:52
  remember it happening, you do remember the trauma, the feelings around people.
• 2:14:56
  Your family's gone, your shovel, you know, given. I mean,
• 2:15:01
  you still not excuse me that something's not right in your world. M mm
• 2:15:07
  hmmm. I'm trying to find your answer. But yeah, if anybody needs
• 2:15:16
  their screw, I'll hold on to it. And as long as double H
• 2:15:22
  says I don't need it. And what he's gonna say is he knew he
• 2:15:26
  should have put my chair together and not me. Did you use an axe
• 2:15:33
  to do it? I did not. I used an Alan rinch Ah.
• 2:15:37
  I see, so it's Alan's fault. I don't have an answer. I
• 2:15:43
  don't have an answer. I'm going to assume he did or maybe he didn't
• 2:15:50
  have. I mean, even if I didn't remember it happened, if somebody
• 2:15:54
  told me that my sibling, the reason I have to live with an aunt
• 2:15:58
  or a grandparent is going my sibling killed the whole family, I wouldn't want
• 2:16:03
  a relationship with that person, you know, or maybe I'm just shallow.
• 2:16:13
  No, I mean I'm raised in the US. I can't find anything now
• 2:16:22
  I want to know. I mean, I mean later, No, it
• 2:16:35
  was only one Well it had the little hook and then the straight part.
• 2:16:41
  Is that considered two added, but both ends were the same size. It's
• 2:16:45
  same size, So no, it was one headed. All I can think
• 2:16:52
  of is a really fun Friday night. Okay, well that was perfect the
• 2:17:05
  wow on here? Before we leave, I want to ask, so we
• 2:17:11
  haven't done a perfect crime in a while. People are still sending them in.
• 2:17:16
  We are sitting on over two hundred and forty submissions. So what you're
• 2:17:26
  saying is we need to do a speed round. Yeah, and so I'm
• 2:17:31
  wondering is it something people want us to do? So I want to ask,
• 2:17:37
  does anybody want us to do them? Now? My thought was I
• 2:17:43
  could go through and group them together and we could maybe do because we seem
• 2:17:50
  to like killing random people. I don't know what's up with our group,
• 2:17:54
  but they really like to kill random people. I could go and pull out
• 2:18:03
  I could go through and pull out all of the non random killings. I
• 2:18:09
  mean, guys. And I say that because I was looking at that and
• 2:18:15
  I we're getting ready the holidays are coming, and I'm part of a NO
• 2:18:20
  or a five oh one C three group that we do for our community,
• 2:18:24
  and they're like, oh, let's do a pot luck and I'm like,
• 2:18:26
  yeah, I know, what if somebody puts poison in there and we dropped
• 2:18:30
  down? So it's kind of ruined me. Okay, so maybe we need
• 2:18:37
  to do a night that we do just perfect crime. And we do that.
• 2:18:43
  There's some short and sweet ones in there, and then there's some long
• 2:18:46
  ones, so maybe we could do the shorter ones. But yeah, like
• 2:18:54
  I said, we're sitting on over two hundred and forty and the person who
• 2:18:56
  goes through them sent me a text and said, Okay, I can't just
• 2:19:01
  keep moving them out of the email. What do you want to do?
• 2:19:05
  It sounds like him, Uh so we'll have to do that last thing.
• 2:19:15
  Can I have a two minute plug? JT? Is that? Okay?
• 2:19:22
  Okay? So if any of you are on Facebook, I'm going to ask
• 2:19:28
  that you go and follow Finding Chase Alan Lackey. That is the special investigation
• 2:19:37
  case we're doing. We are doing a birthday celebration for Chase on Saturday,
• 2:19:43
  and we will live stream it on Facebook and we have invited the Houston media.
• 2:19:50
  We've had a couple who said that they are coming, and we're really
• 2:19:54
  hoping to get it on the news, get some attention, and maybe convey
• 2:20:00
  it's Harris County to get off their ass and do their job. So just
• 2:20:07
  wanted to do that little plug. So it would be great if you know,
• 2:20:11
  you could at least watch the live stream and give some support to his
• 2:20:16
  family because not only is it Thanksgiving, it's also his thirty first birthday and
• 2:20:22
  he's been missing six and a half years. Yes, Terry has a badass
• 2:20:28
  speech. I do because JT sprinkled a little fairy dust on it. And
• 2:20:39
  if anybody lives and if anybody lives in the Houston area, I will be
• 2:20:45
  there live and in person if you want to come and say hello. And
• 2:20:48
  Double H will be there as well. So that's it. Do we want
• 2:20:56
  to close it out. It's on Saturday, Saturday, right one o'clock.
• 2:21:03
  It is in Crosby, which is depends on what part of Houston because it's
• 2:21:07
  so big, but it's right off Beltway eight and it ten area. But
• 2:21:13
  it's Saturday at one pm Texas time, and we are doing bubbles and we
• 2:21:20
  are having birthday cake. We are doing carrot cake cupcakes for everybody, so
• 2:21:28
  it'll be a good way to remember Chase. And since we're not doing anything
• 2:21:33
  for Champ, because I have people send me dms saying why aren't you doing
• 2:21:39
  anything for Champ? Well double h and I for our Christmas party this year
• 2:21:46
  that we have at our house every year, we are asking all of our
• 2:21:50
  guests to bring a bag of dog food and we will be donating it to
• 2:21:54
  the animal shelter in Champs name. So we did not forget sweet little Champ.
• 2:22:01
  Mm hmmm, well perfect. I'll let you close and then I'll do
• 2:22:09
  the thing that I usually do if I can remember it all. He's gonna
• 2:22:13
  do his thing and we'll see if it's a double headed anyway, So everybody
• 2:22:18
  stays safe, watch out for crime, and enjoy your wine time and try
• 2:22:24
  not to spit it out. You all take care of yourself, your friends,
• 2:22:31
  your family. Yes, and have a great Turkey day. Oh,
• 2:22:35
  a great turkey day. Come a cup, a cup, a cup,
• 2:22:39
  a cup, a cup, a couple. Don't let anybody do all your
• 2:22:41
  sparkles, So shine on you crazy crazy diamonds. We will see you all
• 2:22:46
  next time. Bye and the