Latest / StartUp Health NOW Podcast / Does Teladoc’s Stock Drop Matter? Jamey Edwards on Achieving Health Moonshots in the Face of Rocky Public Markets

Transcript

Does Teladoc’s Stock Drop Matter? Jamey Edwards on Achieving Health Moonshots in the Face of Rocky Public Markets · StartUp Health NOW Podcast

• 0:00
  [ on-hold music] You wanna build a company people wanna buy, not a company that you wanna sell.
• 0:11
  And, uh, that's a very different mindset, and I think as, you know, we work with our health transformers on a, on a daily basis here at StartUp Health, it's really about orienting them and making sure that we are having these people who are batteries included, mission first.
• 0:26
  Because those are the key ingredients to success. [upbeat music] Welcome to StartUp Health NOW, the podcast where we celebrate the entrepreneurs and innovators who are reimagining the future of health.
• 0:40
  I'm Logan Plaster, and I've got a special guest with me today, uh, Jamie Edwards, the Chief Operating Officer here at StartUp Health. Jamie, really happy to have you with me.
• 0:51
  Uh, very excited to be here, uh, to have this conversation, Logan. Thank you. So the reason why, uh, you know, you and I decided that you'd be a great guest for this week, uh, which is a little bit of a departure for us.
• 1:01
  We usually talk with, you know, entrepreneurs who are in the StartUp Health portfolio or, or investors that we work with, is that, uh, you have this really rich previous experience that feeds into to- today's theme.
• 1:13
  Uh, you've been in healthcare your whole career. You founded and led a company called Cloudbreak, which was a pioneer in telemedicine.
• 1:20
  Um, and I think you and I were probably attending some of the same ATA, the American Telemedicine Association meetings pre-COVID, back when companies like Teladoc and Amwell were really scaling up and, and, um, becoming what they are today.
• 1:33
  Absolutely. Um, and I remember the enthusiasm and vibrance of the sector and how excited we all were at that time for telemedicine's future.
• 1:43
  And I think, you know, even pre-COVID, Logan, while we were excited about it, we didn't feel like the country was necessarily listening at that point in time. Yeah. Uh, and COVID changed all that. Yeah.
• 1:53
  So, uh, that feeds into today's c- today's conversation 'cause we're, we're talking today to address a string of news headlines and, and really try to make sense of them.
• 2:02
  Uh, just two hours ago, I mean, I was looking online and, and it was literally two hours ago that a headline came across Yahoo Finance that said, quote, "Has Teladoc stock hit rock bottom?" Sorry, "Has it hit bottom?"
• 2:15
  And then it says, "Looking for a silver lining." So shares of Teladoc, according to this story, and it's not even the full, uh, drop, plunged forty percent yesterday, according to Yahoo Finance. And Teladoc isn't alone.
• 2:29
  So we wanted to have a candid conversation about, you know, what's happening in the public markets around telemedicine.
• 2:35
  And, you know, not only have you been in the telemedicine space for more than a decade, but your company, Cloudbreak, was acquired by UpHealth last year and taken public via SPAC. So- Yep...
• 2:46
  this whole process of the public market exit is extremely fresh for you, right? Very fresh and, um, you know, the wounds, the wounds are still there, right?
• 2:55
  Um, as we've seen what's happened with the stocks of some of these SPACs. Well, let's, w- well, l- let's start there. You, you've, you, you, you brought it up. What wounds?
• 3:04
  Well, look, I mean, I think when you're an entrepreneur and you're anticipating a public market exit at a time of what I would consider great exuberance. Mm.
• 3:14
  Um, and I don't think anyone thought, um, it was a bubble at the time.
• 3:19
  I think we were all looking at, you know, the fact that, um, and I hesitate to even use the word bubble because I don't wanna classify it or, you know, think about it as that.
• 3:27
  Because what we really saw was a fundamental shift in how healthcare was viewing telemedicine, and we all viewed the fact that,
• 3:38
  you know, if you look at the healthcare continuum, that telemedicine was gonna be an integrated part of it moving forward, and we still, all still believe that today.
• 3:45
  Like, nothing fundamentally has changed in market if you take a look at how telemedicine is being used.
• 3:53
  Yes, people are going back to in-person visits, but telemedicine is here to stay, and it's being used, you know, 10X more than it was, uh, pre-COVID at new normalized levels and is continuing to grow. And if you look at,
• 4:05
  um, systems like the VA- Mm... or systems like Kaiser, who control the patient experience from end to end, they do over fifty percent of their visits over telemedicine.
• 4:14
  So, you know, when we were anticipating this public market exit after working on building what was a great business for, man, you know, over twelve years, um, in the health equity space, especially around telemedicine,
• 4:27
  um, we were really excited about the prospects of being a public entity.
• 4:32
  And the fact that where we thought we were going public was really the bottom, um, and not the top of, you know, what the valuation was going to be.
• 4:42
  Um, and then over time, the realities of being a public company and what it means, um, from a cost standpoint, just in terms of partnering your infrastructure, and then being at the whims of investors and seeing that how that impacts, you know, morale and everything else inside the business.
• 4:58
  And, you know, if you take a look at, you know, UpHealth today as an example, I mean, the stock's trading, you know, a little over eighty cents a share, um, after, you know, going public at, you know, ten dollars, which most SPACs do.
• 5:09
  Um, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's an interesting dynamic.
• 5:13
  I think there are specific issues around all the various SPACs that have come out and some of the companies that are going public, and if you take a look at a company like American Well, which was one of the most venerable, um- Right.
• 5:23
  Right...
• 5:24
  you know, one of the largest, most venerable telemedicine companies that was out there who didn't go public via SPAC, they went public via, you know, straightway IPO, um, and to see their stock trading where it is today, I think, you know, everyone's generally surprised.
• 5:40
  Um, especially the founders who have built these companies who are now thinking to themselves, "Man, if I didn't go public, I would've been better off." Yeah.Interesting.
• 5:48
  Well, I, I wanna get into some of the reasons why you think this is happening.
• 5:51
  Um, but I also wanna give, like, an early caveat to our conversation, and, uh, kind of tell the listener kind of what our, our working thesis or headline is for this conversation, which is not to just say that, "Look, these stocks are down, doom and gloom," but actually the idea is, you know, achieving health moonshots in the face of these rocky public markets.
• 6:12
  I just wanna say that upfront, uh, just to sort of, you know, make it clear what our theme is here.
• 6:17
  Because at StartUp Health, you know, as you and I talk all the time, you know, we're not in the business of gleefully spotting these trends and then standing back to see what happens.
• 6:26
  You know, in fact, we don't even care if people think that this is a, a bubble or if they think that, that things are rocky.
• 6:31
  Our question is, you know, how can entrepreneurs and industry succeed in light of whatever is going on, whether it's a rocky public market?
• 6:41
  Uh, how do we achieve these, these audacious health moonshots no matter what's happening on Wall Street? Yeah.
• 6:48
  You know, and, and I love that theme because when we take a look at our, you know, core values here at StartUp Health, and one of them being, you know, being anti-fragile, which is a word that our portfolio companies are probably familiar with, or maybe not all of them are familiar with yet, um, but one that we should all be familiar with, which is this concept that these challenges are out there, and that they don't exist in a vacuum, and that they're...
• 7:11
  You know, we, as entrepreneurs, need to see these challenges as things that we overcome and that make us stronger, um, and that we learn from. And I think that's what we're really talking about here.
• 7:21
  You've got a market where the pendulum maybe arguably swung during COVID to a really radical high valuation side, and now might be swinging back the other way.
• 7:32
  And if you're an entrepreneur who's about to exit, you know, if you take a look at the market and this pendulum that maybe had swung too high to the valuation side, and now be sw- may- now may be swinging too far back to the lower valuation sl- side,
• 7:47
  I think what we're gonna see is if you looked at previous decks of startups that were out raising capital, it's like, well, what's your liquidity event look like?
• 7:56
  Well, now it used to probably say SPAC or public company, you know, exit, um, from an IPO standpoint, and now, you know, that might not look as, uh, a, as great a path as it might have looked before. Yeah.
• 8:08
  And so we need to think about these things as startup founders. Yeah.
• 8:12
  And there's a concept at StartUp Health that we really focus on, which is anti-fragility, and that concept is that these challenges that are out there and all of these externalities that exist, you know, the movement of the public markets, um, something that might happen in your industry that's an industry shock, well, those aren't things that we look at that we're like, "Oh, that's a death knell."
• 8:31
  Um, those are opportunities for us to take a look at our strategies, get stronger- Yeah... um, and reposition ourselves, and I think that's just what we're looking at now.
• 8:41
  And so the real question for, you know, founders in our portfolio or other startup founders out there is, you know, keep your heads down, keep grinding on your business plan.
• 8:49
  Nothing that's happening in the public markets per se, um, you know, really impacts you right now, um, and that these are... the- these... this too shall pass, right? Yeah. Yeah.
• 9:00
  Y- you mentioned the idea of the pendulum swinging back, uh, which I think it clearly is, and you think it's now swinging too far, um, which suggests that, you know, uh, that we could see a market correction again.
• 9:11
  But that notwithstanding, you know, when you saw these headlines about this precipitous drop, this 40% drop for Teladoc, you know, what, what were you thinking about what, what's causing it, besides just sort of a swing back and forth?
• 9:25
  Um, you know, a wise man once said that the root of all problems, um... and there's, there was a executive coach that, you know, we've been working with who, who said this.
• 9:34
  "The root of all problems is uncommunicated expectations." Yeah. And I think what we're seeing is a misalignment of the expectations of the market with these companies' performance. Hmm.
• 9:46
  Um, and maybe the expectations were simply too high. Not that these companies aren't performing well, because I think if you look at the fundamentals of a lot of these businesses, they're actually performing pretty well.
• 9:57
  I mean, Teladoc, you know, you're looking at a business that has over $2 billion of revenue. Hmm. Um, the real question and what's caused these stock swings is that you've got a very active retail market now.
• 10:11
  We saw it with companies like AMC and whoever else. And then you've got this misalignment of the expectations of the retail investors and the institutional investors with the company themselves.
• 10:23
  And I think, um, you know, what really makes a public company work is when you predictably hit your expectations and you're giving proper guidance.
• 10:34
  Um, you know, those are the types of things that, um, you know, build confidence in investor bases, and I think what we've seen right now is a misalignment of those expectations.
• 10:44
  Uh, how much of the problem do you think is the, it's the environment of the public markets themselves, where certain expectations, uh, have to be met even if you really...
• 10:54
  what you really need to have is these long-term, uh, you know, five-year, 10-year goals that you're ch- achieving, plus the problem of media coverage? You know, the, the problem of- Yeah...
• 11:06
  uh, someone talking about, "Oh, you know, you're, you're the next big thing. You just, um, had this big valuation," and then all of a sudden, uh, everyone kind of goes off the deep end. Yeah.
• 11:16
  I think the interesting thing about the public markets right now is that they can be, um, influenced by a tweet, Logan. Hmm.
• 11:22
  Um, just take a look at Elon Musk and what's happening with Twitter, which I think is fascinating.
• 11:29
  Fascinating to have a guy like Elon Musk now in the realm of owning a media asset, um, you know, Rupert Mur- Rupert Murdoch style, um, and, uh, you know, maintaining it as a place for free speech.
• 11:41
  So I think, um, the fact is there's probably more volatility now in the market than ever, as opposed to predictability. Hmm.
• 11:51
  Um, in other words, because of the daily news cycle and the ease at which people can access news and then amplify it-You know, I think you see just greater daily changes in these stock prices and increased daily volatility.
• 12:03
  Now, I can't say that for a fact because I haven't gone out and analyzed the numbers. Yeah. But that's my basic gut feeling on the market these days.
• 12:11
  Um, you know, even if you take a look at what's happened, you know, Teladoc's stock is already starting to rebound as people go in and feel like there is a value play there.
• 12:20
  Um, but I think just like in the normal entrepreneurial journey, there's a lot of ups and downs.
• 12:26
  Um, not, you know, every milestone is a celebration, and not every, um, you know, every round is an up round, and, and not every revenue quarter is an up quarter. Yeah.
• 12:38
  Um, it's not a hockey stick, and you have to be able to withstand these types of... this type of volatility, both in the private markets and the public markets. Yeah. I'm, I'm totally with you.
• 12:50
  You know, I think the takeaway here is sort of chill out. We're on a, we're on a marathon, not a sprint. However, given your experience at Cloudbreak,
• 12:58
  do you think there's anything fundamentally fractured or broken about enterprise telemedicine right now? You know, I do not.
• 13:06
  Um, I think that, um, people still don't understand that healthcare is local, and so when they take a look at the number of national visits that were happening, um, in, um, telemedicine...
• 13:22
  You know, one of the great things that happened during the telemedicine boom was our ability to share doctors across state lines and load balance- Yeah...
• 13:29
  um, what was happening, um, across the needs of the healthcare system on a, on a national basis. I mean, that was truly a big thing.
• 13:37
  And I think what we're seeing now as we revert back to people going back into normal patterns is that, you know, telemedicine isn't broken.
• 13:44
  What's broken are the current care models that really could drive a more efficient healthcare system. Hmm. And we're still largely based on a fee for service healthcare system.
• 13:56
  We are still compensated in our healthcare system today as providers, um, for the in-person visit, and I think that is a structural problem that needs to get fixed.
• 14:07
  And as we move towards more value-based, care-driven, uh, systems, I think that problem will start to alleviate itself, and that's, again, evidenced by Kaiser, the VA, and those examples I brought up before.
• 14:19
  Um, you know, we should be using technology, um, to help make what is a better patient and provider experience.
• 14:26
  Um, and I think patients, um, even though they're coming back to in-person healthcare, would largely argue that, you know, a lot of the visits they're doing in person still don't need to be done.
• 14:35
  They don't need to wait in a waiting room, leave their home, or do anything like that. Yeah. Let's shift our focus for a moment o- back to the entrepreneur.
• 14:45
  Obviously, you know, we're h- here at StartUp Health where we support, you know, the 400 investments that we've made across 28 countries, and these founders, these health transformers, they read these headlines and they can't help but get a l- a little nervous, a little concerned about, uh, [chuckles] about the, the, the future and particularly their, their exit options.
• 15:04
  So, so talk to me about how this might change the way a, a founder... And you touched on this a second ago, but to maybe a little bit more detail, how it changes their thought process around their exit options. Yeah.
• 15:17
  Um, look, if you're a founder today, um, this is just, you know, another, another mindset, um, obstacle to overcome. And, you know, we at StartUp Health talk a lot about mindset and the importance of it.
• 15:29
  Um, and nothing that's happening in the markets ch- today should impact you or dissuade you from continuing to execute on your mission, right? One of the things we always talk about is that, um, you know...
• 15:42
  And I think a great example of this in recent media is, um, you know, the Dropout on Hulu and the Bad Blood, uh, you know, book by John Carreyrou and that whole Theranos discussion.
• 15:52
  You know, one of the things that really stuck with me is when they talked to Elizabeth Holmes about, you know, what she wanted to be when she grew up, she said a billionaire.
• 15:59
  [laughs] Um, that's not why you start a company. These financial drivers are the results of you executing on a mission that matters and having passion around that mission. Um, it's not about wanting to make money.
• 16:11
  So understand that the best companies are the ones that you're building, you know... You wanna build a company people wanna buy, not a company that you wanna sell, and, uh, that's a very different mindset.
• 16:22
  And I think as, you know, we work with our health transformers on a, on a daily basis here at StartUp Health, it's really about orienting them and making sure that we are having these people who are batteries included, mission first, because those are the key ingredients to success.
• 16:39
  So if you're a founder today, it's heads down, business as usual. Go out and continue to build the market. Um, you know, that's where you're gonna find your success at the end of the day. Yeah.
• 16:49
  W- what I hear you saying is b- a bad reason to go public is to get rich. So what are a couple, what are a couple really good reasons- That's right... uh, to still consider going public ver- via an IPO?
• 17:02
  Yeah, look, the public markets exist because for generations they've been a successful tool for companies to expand their missions and to bring more people into their success story.
• 17:14
  Um, you know, and investors play an important role in that. While, you know, an investor might be passive, it's their funds that really fuel the company's ability to scale their mission.
• 17:25
  Um, and it's a way for companies to bring what are companies that have a larger number of employees into sharing the wealth of growing those businesses. So I think there's a lot of great reasons to be a public company.
• 17:38
  I would actually tell you contrarian-wise,
• 17:41
  I think, you know, if you have the opportunity to go public as a business in a market that, um, feels like, you know, valuations are at all-time lows, and then you can ride the next, um, you know, ride up, like that to me feels like actually really good, solid thinking.
• 17:58
  Um, so I think there's still a lot of good reasons to be public, but there is a point in time...
• 18:02
  I think the ironic thing about [chuckles] this, Logan, is there's a point in time over the last few years where the number of public companies was shrinking.Right?
• 18:09
  There weren't enough companies to put into the Russell 5000 'cause there weren't five thousand public companies to put into that index.
• 18:16
  Um, and so I think there was a long time, especially over the last five to ten years, where people were like, "You know what? Going public isn't the best exit for a business- Yeah...
• 18:23
  unless it meets certain criteria," right? Is the business north of a hundred million dollars? Is it growing? Is it cash flow positive, right? We've proven before that the public- Yeah...
• 18:34
  markets aren't a great place for venture capital. Um, that you don't, you know, put venture capital in the hands of public investors because they don't understand or, um, you know, those risks. Yeah.
• 18:45
  They see the upside and not the potential downside. So, um, you know, those are the things that I think about. So, the real question is, what's the criteria for a great public company today?
• 18:55
  And if you don't fit that, then, you know, pursue other alternatives if you're looking for an exit at this point in time. That might be, by the way, an exit to an already...
• 19:03
  a company that's already public, that already has a great, solid foundation, trust of investors, you know, the things that you don't wanna have to build fresh, um, or it might be an exit, you know, in another way, or it might be a recapitalization of the business and a shift from growth to thinking about a more cash flow oriented orientation.
• 19:19
  There's all sorts of different things to think about in that regard. That's true.
• 19:23
  If these markets sort of persuade a founder to sort of shift their gaze more towards, like, an M-M&A exit, um, you know, what's your advice towards how they should be structuring their business, thinking about their long-term plans, sort of just changing their mindset to be thinking about that type of exit over a public exit?
• 19:44
  Yeah. I think if you're thinking about M&A public versus private, to a public company or a private company today, um, you know, these private companies aren't looking to take on companies that are burning a ton of cash.
• 19:57
  They want companies that haven't necessarily just built a great product, but have really thought about product market fit- Mm... um, and have demonstrated that.
• 20:04
  I can't tell you how many companies I've looked at, um, you know, outside of our portfolio, some in our portfolio, uh, but outside of our portfolio, um, or my previous experience at Cloudbreak, who had spent so much time developing what they thought was the world's best world-beating product, and then you talk to them, and they spent thirty million of venture capital, and you say, "Oh, what's your revenue?"
• 20:25
  And they're like, "Oh, it's a million dollars." [laughs] Right? Well, that math doesn't hunt if you're looking to exit a business. Mm.
• 20:33
  So we need to think fundamentally about, you know, look, if you're gonna build, um, a company that people wanna buy, you've gotta build a company that has a market. Mm.
• 20:42
  And then if you build your company that way and you're o- more open to, like, putting a product in market that's gonna get, you know, at least your product's out there, you're getting revenue, and then you're getting real-time feedback from customers who can help shape your product roadmap, your product is gonna be ten times better than it would've been if you kept it on your own and then just kept funding it with venture capital.
• 21:02
  So that's the way I think about it. Yeah.
• 21:05
  Uh, how do you think that this, uh, pendulum swinging back in the public markets, uh, is going to and needs to impact how, uh, startups think about their own valuations, bringing them back in line, back into maybe, um, uh, cleaner math, if you will?
• 21:22
  Look, I think, um, that we are in the early innings of digital healthcare, of the digital transformation in healthcare.
• 21:30
  Um, there's no doubt to me that healthcare is one of the last industries to really go through digital transformation, and we still remain in the very early innings of it. You've seen it happen in finance.
• 21:39
  We've seen it happen in, um, fitness. We've seen it happen in a broad variety of different industries that are more consumer driven.
• 21:45
  Um, but in healthcare, you know, we have been reticent to adopt the technologies that now should be de rigueur, if we were gonna build a healthcare system today from scratch, how it should be.
• 21:56
  So I believe in the future of digital health. Um, as a result,
• 22:01
  when I take a look at the valuations in the industry, you know, there's no doubt that people are gonna take a look at public company valuations, and with Teladoc now trading at two times revenue, you know, that's gonna affect how a VC investor, when they're evaluating potential exits, is gonna look at a valuation today.
• 22:16
  So if you're looking at a ten million dollar Series A raise, and it used to be like, well, that's gonna be ten million on a forty million pre, um, well, now we might be looking at a thirty million pre or a twenty million pre.
• 22:27
  Um, it really just depends, um, on the specific circumstances around that business. So I think this is all about taking a look at your growth and, again, product market fit.
• 22:39
  I think there's gonna be a premium on taking a look at companies that are really driving revenue. Yeah.
• 22:46
  You know, just a few weeks ago, we had that, um, fireside chat with, uh, Alisa Jaffe from Seven Wire Ventures, and I asked her this question about, uh, the public markets and sort of the health of the market as a whole, and her response was that she was super bullish on health innovation and health tech, and, a-and her reason really [chuckles] went so far beyond kind of the, the data she was getting from Wall Street, and she said, "Look, healthcare problems are, are, are, aren't going anywhere.
• 23:16
  They're only getting more challenging. We're only addressing more diseases. We're curing more diseases for more people every day."
• 23:23
  And so, a-and that to me was such an interesting, uh, way to reframe it and to look at the size of the problem and the will of the world to address these problems and say, "Look, no matter what's happening today in these numbers on Wall Street, uh, this market is what it is, and it is massive, and it's growing.
• 23:44
  It's expanding," and, um, that's what's gonna be the ultimate driver, which I thought was very interesting. Yeah. Look, I, um... One, Alisa is super smart, right?
• 23:55
  Totally gets it, has been on the front lines of this for a long time. You're looking at an industry here in the United States that's four trillion dollars, right?
• 24:04
  Twenty percent of GDP spend in this country is spent on healthcare. It still remains the number one cause of bankruptcy in our country.
• 24:13
  Um, and then you take a look at the, the global s- which is, which is a crime-Um, how could healthcare costs be the number one cause of bankruptcy in a nation like the United States?
• 24:23
  And you realize that even in a progressive nation like ours, like we don't rank very highly in WHO statistics or anything of that nature. So clearly, there are a lot of problems to fix.
• 24:34
  And I continue to be inspired on a daily basis as I sit in this seat at StartUp Health with the companies that I continue to meet in our portfolio.
• 24:43
  Um, amazing companies, um, you know, like Life Stores, um, who I recently s-- I spoke to Brian, who's, you know, the founder there, uh, yesterday, and just left so inspired.
• 24:54
  You know, they're, they're building out a whole pharmacy infrastructure in places like Nigeria and bringing cutting-edge technologies to these emerging markets in a way that's amazing.
• 25:04
  I had a call today with, um, a company that just closed a Series A, Us2.ai, um, and are amazed at the level of traction that they're getting in market, as well as just the passion of the founders who feel like they are on-- sitting on something so important,
• 25:21
  so important, um, that they are just spending every hour of their day driving it forward, um, you know, using AI to help really solve a big, big problem, um, you know, in, in, in the cardiology space.
• 25:33
  So, you know, I think there's so much excitement around those potential opportunities and so many of those problems to solve that I think the momentum keeps going.
• 25:41
  Like, these market conditions have not affected one iota my view on the future, uh, potential of healthcare, um, and digital in healthcare, uh, going forward. You know, as you, as you said that, uh,
• 25:57
  it dawns on me that it feels like it's, it's partially a, uh, a storytelling problem, which, you know, comes back to our emphasis on storytelling at StartUp Health.
• 26:05
  This idea, you know, you and I agree that it's a marathon and not a sprint, that these problems, uh, have to be and will be addressed.
• 26:13
  Um, and yet we still have these major headlines that, like, shake the whole [chuckles] market, and that they have to be reconciled between them.
• 26:20
  So the idea that we have to figure out as, as a society and as a healthcare industry, what is the story we're gonna tell about healthcare progress? Are we gonna hyperventilate about these ups and downs of the market?
• 26:33
  Are we gonna keep things in perspective? Are we gonna keep sort of a, um, a, a North Star about health?
• 26:40
  And I think that remains, um, uh, you know, a question for society as a whole, and definitely one that, that we're driving at at StartUp Health.
• 26:48
  Well, Logan, to that point, you know, StartUp Health has been around for fifteen years, um, and has always talked about this being a thirty, forty, fifty, you know, sixty-year journey, right?
• 26:58
  So, um, if you take a long-term view, which is the right view, um, you know, we're just at the beginning of this.
• 27:05
  And whatever volatility might happen within a given year, um, you know, to me is, is, you know, inconsequential to the overall trend of where we're going. Well, Jamie, that's, that's our time for this episode.
• 27:20
  I really appreciate you taking the time. Just, you've got a really invaluable experience, uh, your perspective over the last, you know, fifteen in this space, and I'm encouraged hearing your, uh, optimism.
• 27:33
  [chuckles] Yeah. Look, I'm grateful for the opportunity. Um, I think, you know, as entrepreneurs, we're, we're built to be optimistic. Um, so I'll, I'll, uh, I'll give that bias.
• 27:42
  But, uh, based on my expertise and everything that I've seen over the last twenty years, like, I could not be more excited about, you know, the next five to ten years and the next five to ten years after that.
• 27:53
  I just think we're, we're sitting at this inflection point of, of exponential change. [upbeat music] Well, we'll keep watching these headlines, and if there's a few more like this, we'll have to hop on and do it again.
• 28:05
  Sounds good. I'll look forward to that. Thanks for the opportunity, Logan. All right. Be well. Thanks for listening to StartUp Health NOW.
• 28:12
  StartUp Health invests in health transformers from around the world who are committed to achieving audacious health moonshots.
• 28:18
  If you wanna learn how you can join this community of entrepreneurs, or if you want to connect with one of our three hundred and eighty companies, go to startuphealth.com.
• 28:26
  If you'd like to learn how you can invest in our Health Moonshot Impact Fund in collaboration with AngelList, go to healthmoonshots.com. Thanks for listening to StartUp Health NOW. We'll be back next week. [upbeat music]