Latest / ShameOver - The Drink Less Podcast / Microdosing, Ketamine & Mental Health: The Conversation Continues (Part 2) | with Zappy Zapolin
Transcript
- Erica+ShameOver: Okay. I hope this conversation gave you something to think about. Whether or not psychedelic medicine is something that you'd ever consider, I think the biggest takeaway is this healing is possible. There are more conversations happening around mental health, trauma, addiction, and nervous system regulation more than ever before, and that's something I'm incredibly hopeful about. So if this episode made you realize that alcohol has become your go to. All right, welcome back. If you haven't listened to part one yet, I highly recommend starting there first because this conversation really builds on everything that we covered in that episode. So today we are diving deeper into topics like microdosing, ketamine therapy, safety, what emerging research could mean for women who are using alcohol to cope with stress, overwhelm, and trauma. As always, this conversation is for educational purposes only. All right. Well, jumping back into it, there is a crazy storm going on here. So I like basically lost everything. So I apologize for that. But so Zappy, sorry to cut you off on that. One thing that I was definitely curious about because I know that this is used to treat addiction. So in my mind I assume that this is not something that is addictive. Is that correct? Okay. Zappy Zapolin: No worries. That is correct. Yeah. These are some of the least addictive compounds on the entire planet. These are not things, these are powerful energies, not something, you know, to be played with. You need training, you need guiding. but yeah, as far as addictive qualities know, the interesting thing about it is that they ⁓ know, they put these on schedule one and the definition for the last sixty years is. Erica+ShameOver: This is not medical advice or an endorsement of any particular treatment. My hope is simply to introduce you to different perspectives and encourage thoughtful conversation with qualified healthcare professionals. If this is something that you're curious about, then I hope you learn more. All right, let's jump back into this conversation with Zappy. Solution for stress or anything along those lines, please know you're not alone and you don't have to figure this out by yourself. I'd love to invite you to take my free drinking type quiz. ⁓ you can discover your unique drinking style. And if you're ready to create real change, come join the reset. ⁓ there I will help you build a healthier relationship with alcohol, without any shame, guilt, or giving up your social life. So you'll find links to both of those in the show notes. Zappy Zapolin: The definition is no medical benefit, highly addictive. And so they're finally admitting that with ⁓ the psychedelic medicines that there is medical evidence. But sometimes people would say to me before, they would say, Well, Zappy, maybe they just aren't convinced of the evidence or they're not ready yet. The guy you know, the medical establishment isn't sure yet. And I said, Okay, well, if that's fine, but if the definition of schedule one is Erica+ShameOver: Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you next week. Zappy Zapolin: No medical benefit, highly addictive. I'm like, why aren't cigarettes on schedule one? They're like killing millions of people. Like, why aren't they on there? And it's obvious that this is just like a big political game of some sort. so yeah, so this is a moment really to get educated, find you know, get your basic information because this is happening, you know. The DEA just asked Health and Human Services, which is run by RFK Jr. Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. Yeah. Money. Zappy Zapolin: To make a recommendation on rescheduling psilocybin mushrooms off of Schedule One. And they just recently moved cannabis, marijuana, from Schedule One to Schedule Three. So it can be studied, it can be prescribed by a doctor. They're about to do the same thing with psilocybin mushrooms, but what people don't realize is that because psilocybin mushrooms have already had a phase one clinical trial, it's actually going to be available for you to use under the Right to Try Act. Which ⁓ Donald Trump put into place his first term, which was mostly for cancer drugs. And it basically said that if something's had a phase one clinical trial has been proven to be safe enough, even if there's no other data, it's your right to try it to try to save your life. so psilocybin has had that phase one. So as soon as it gets shifted, we're about to have ⁓ of people try psilocybin under the right to try. Erica+ShameOver: Okay. Zappy Zapolin: I'm predicting 10 or 20 million extra people do it in the next 18 months. Yeah, and just like in the 1960s when it came onto the scene, it changed everything business models, culture, art, you know, fashion. But this time they're not going to be able to suppress it like they did back then. so we're really in for an incredible experience. And think nature's pretty intelligent. I think it's bringing out the plant medicine. at the same time as the AI and all that because it knows that people are challenged and they are ha have a lot of addictions and diseases. And so here's God. If you believe in God, then God these things grow out of the ground, gave you receptors in your brain for it. So like if you're not taking it, what are you saying that you know better than God? ⁓ I not want to be and this I'm Partly joking, but I wouldn't want to be sitting in front of God and God's asking me why I'm there. And I'm like, well, because I died of this or that. And God's like, Well, why didn't you take some of the natural plants and things that I put there for you? And then if my answer is, well, cause a guy in a white coat told me not to, God's gonna be like, ⁓ guess what? You're not thinking for yourself, you're about to go back for another hundred lifetimes. I'll see you later. ⁓ you know. Erica+ShameOver: Hmm. Zappy Zapolin: I don't want to, I would rather be like, I tried everything, you know, I I gave it a shot, and here I am. And ⁓ you know, for me, not joking, I would say that for me, psychedelics are about reconnecting me to the fact that I'm in a miracle right now. ⁓ this in this miracle, ⁓ know, the sun is 93 million miles away, so we can have an atmosphere and breathe. I'm talking on a Erica+ShameOver: Mm. Yeah. Zappy Zapolin: cell phone to China and video in real time. Like this is miracle type stuff. And people are like, ⁓ there's no miracles. I need a burning bush or whatever. They and for me, I right. I must have that, you know, or I'm not having I'm not in America. And so for me, every time I come back from a journey, reconnect with that I am in a miracle and I have a 3D super suit. Erica+ShameOver: How much more of a burning bush can you get based on what we're doing? Yeah. Zappy Zapolin: to taste chocolate and to feel love and all that. That I have to, you know, embrace it, enjoy it. And I have a feeling that when you do die, ⁓ if there is a judgment, it's not going to be the like what good deeds did you do? Cause I think we all do good and bad things. And sometimes when you're doing a good deed, you're just doing it for your ego anyways. But I really think you're going to be judged based on how much gratitude did you have to be in this experience even though you didn't know why you were here, you didn't know what the rules were and you didn't you don't know what comes next, if you were still grateful to be in it, I think that's how you're gonna be, you know, judged in a positive light. So Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. So from someone who has never ⁓ these, I god, when get a really, really high fever, I hallucinate and it is not good hallucination. So I've stayed away from anything that could possibly do that. so ⁓ I guess what what would you want people to know going into it, especially if they are like me a little bit more like, ⁓ I don't know, it kind of scares me. and on another note Zappy Zapolin: Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: I know I'm in Colorado, Colorado's very progressive, especially with things like this. Is it available in all states or is it still state by state that is allowing this to come first? Zappy Zapolin: Yeah, it is be it's state by state being decriminalized. And of course Colorado is the most forward thinking state in the country, you know, they always lead the way. They're pioneer they have a pioneer spirit and frontiers. They don't you know need you to tell ⁓ what to do, you know, they can handle themselves. So, you know, for marijuana for ⁓ the right to do these so these psychedelic pr things, it's like your human right and I appreciate Colorado always for, you know, leaning into that, you know, people can make their own decisions about themselves, their body, nature, all these things. And so thankfully that's the case. But it looks like federal is about to come any day now with this rescheduling. So that is really important. you know, I would tell people start small. You know, that's the whole thing is there's this ⁓ there's a protocol of micro dosing these things where you're taking a very small amount. It's like a It's actually supposed to be subperceptual. That's the definition of a microdose where you don't feel it, but over time it builds up. You build these neuroplasticity, these new neural pathways, ⁓ in a better position to handle reality and society and your family. And ⁓ Brian Johnson, the biohacker, he just set things off in a big way. He's the guy who has the don't die. live forever. He's spending millions of dollars a year on his own trying to you know, reverse age himself. ⁓ And recently he got involved with psychedelics because of some in some research that his friends did, data coming out Stanford and different places that looked like the psilocybin mushrooms and some other things might actually affect your longevity, not just your mental health, but your actual longevity. Erica+ShameOver: Okay. Hmm. Okay. Zappy Zapolin: So he went in and he wound up doing ⁓ two psilocybin psychedelic mushroom journeys, high dose, did it on a live stream, all hooked up to the helmet and the blood pressure and everything. he did it and he came out and he was like, wow, I feel incredible. He's like, ⁓ ⁓ longevity markers look better. And he then wound up doing another compound called 5MEO DMT. This is a something that comes, there are plants that have it, and there's also ⁓ of different ⁓ toad that you can ⁓ take the 5MEO from and get 5MEO DMT. He smoked the DMT on a live stream. He was all hooked up. ⁓ he came out. It's a very powerful experience. He said that it was the most significant experience of his whole life. This is a guy who sold his company for a billion dollars and You know, on and on. This is the most significant. And he said that all of his biomarkers were so good, so much better than they'd ever been. That he said his conclusion was his excitement about psychedelic medicine was so strong because he said, It looks like diet can affect your longevity, working out, sleep. Yes, they can all move it a little bit. He's like, But the psychedelic medicine was more than all of those things. Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Zappy Zapolin: Plus, plus, plus on his biomarkers, his telomeres and stuff. He's like, this is unbelievable. so my phone's been blowing up with biohackers who are like, okay, Zappy, I'm finally ready. Let's do it. I want to do what Brian Johnson did. And it's exciting because I used to tease all these biohackers that I was like, you guys aren't biohackers, you're symptom hackers. So when people come to you and they go, I can't sleep. You just say something like, ⁓ take melatonin. And it's like, no, but like the question is, why can't you sleep? You know, what is it in your subconscious? Let's get to the bottom of that. And then you'll sleep. You won't need melatonin. You'll probably be happier. And so they're finally getting it and they're finally embracing, aha. only is this amazing for your mental health, but it's also for peak performance of human. Erica+ShameOver: Right. Yeah. Zappy Zapolin: longevity and and human wellness. So we're kind of living in the best time ever for people to access the medicine and ⁓ do it in a legal, safe, legal way. And hopefully have a psychedelic concierge, somebody who can guide you, somebody who can prep you, integrate you after, because I'm projecting that some after the AI takes over with the robots, I'm projecting that there's only going to be like a few jobs that are even left. It's going to be taking care of babies, taking care of the elderly, and guiding people on a psychedelic journey and helping them to integrate it. Because at that point, you want a human with like a human nervous system to be able to, you know, bounce off of to have that connection, that human connection. You don't want AI to tell you what most people should be experiencing at that point. It's not helpful. And so Erica+ShameOver: Mm. Zappy Zapolin: I think it's an it's an AI proof job. It's a very fulfilling career. And if people are interested, I would suggest, you know, check out psychedelicconcierge.com. you know, ⁓ educated about all the different psychedelics because at some point they're gonna be available and if somebody in your family needs help, at least you're gonna know what to do, what you know the opportunities are ⁓ to refer them or to guide them and so forth. gonna be really important to know coming up as we, you know, heal. Erica+ShameOver: Well, and on that note, what else is really important? ⁓ because I mean, I've literally I I live basically downtown Denver and I can be walking down the street and people will be like selling mushrooms, know, like not out of a storefront, literally just on the street. So I personally wouldn't wouldn't trust that, but what would you look for in that situation? Would it need to be like with the concierge as their training or how do people know that they're gonna be in a safe environment to do this and that the products are Zappy Zapolin: ⁓ huh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good that's a good point. coming up, there's gonna be a lot more scrutiny over what you know, testing and what's in these products. I even think that, you know Yeah, definitely. And I think like, you know, some of the people, you know, when you hear about somebody having a bad trip or something with mushrooms, usually that has to do with they took them in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people, you know, like at a concert with ten thousand people, not ⁓ Erica+ShameOver: Safe. I'm guessing similar to what they did with marijuana. Zappy Zapolin: you know, in their apartment, laying in their bag, you know, or in nature or something. But I think those people are even going to be screened out when we have testing. If they're going to realize that just like a peanut allergy, some people shouldn't have mushrooms. Some shouldn't have, you know, tryptamine. Some people, you know, different ⁓ things for different people. And like a p a peanut allergy, you know, twenty five hundred people a year have a problem, but we don't outlaw it for everybody. We just Test them and awareness and all that. So I think very much like that, we're gonna, you know, have standardization of dosing and probably ⁓ microdosing psilocybin mushrooms is probably gonna heal society, replace antidepressants, and it's already kind of ripping through the middle of the country where the moms on mushroom, moms for mushrooms or moms on microdoses. These groups are having these experiences. They're like going, Wow, this is incredible. Let me share it with my friends or my PTA. And it's really through the middle of the country, it's really happening. And and as you know, women make most of the decisions in the home around medical things for themselves, the husband, the kids, and stuff. So as that's happening, it's exponentially Spreading out because just how good mushroom microdosing is for your wellness. It's basically creating neuroplasticity so that you're not frozen in this moment. And then the second thing I would recommend for your audience starting out is that the only psychedelic medicine that's legal is ketamine, because ketamine is an FDA-approved anesthetic that they use. Every day, you know, tens of thousands of times a day in emergency rooms. it's now proven that a low dose of ketamine can break even treatment-resistant depression. ⁓ and one that's nice for you to know is that psych that is not a hallucinogenic. It's the only one that's not a hallucinogenic. So the walls aren't melting, you're not hallucinating. It's basically Erica+ShameOver: Wow. Zappy Zapolin: Dissociating and separating your left and right brain and allowing them to communicate however they want without your ego getting involved in it. You just laying there with an eye shade on, you're watching these beautiful colors and visions, and you're like, ⁓ wow, I didn't know my brain could do that. and then when you come out of it, the science is it's only lasts like 35 minutes, but afterwards. Erica+ShameOver: Fasty. Zappy Zapolin: that when the ketamine metabolizes in your body, it grows new neural pathways in your brain around trauma and depression, can fix broken pathways that might have been broken by drug addiction or, you know, even patterns that are ⁓ hereditary patterns that aren't even yours. You're like being triggered by something and you're like, why is this triggering me? Come to find out it's your great great great grandfather had this situation and you're reacting to it. Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Zappy Zapolin: ⁓ and the psychedelic medicine pattern interrupts you and then you find yourself in the present moment and you're like ⁓ wow I'm in the present moment I'm going forward in the future all this stuff back here it's not it's not really doesn't have the same electrical charge anymore on it and so excited for society because ⁓ you know this is what we've needed for a long time and and we're in a scary situation so if if you don't have PTSD ⁓ Erica+ShameOver: Fascinating. Yeah. Zappy Zapolin: I'm actually worried about you. You're probably a sociopath or some kind of psychopath if you're not worried right now. Okay. So Erica+ShameOver: You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. my gosh. I I know that a lot of therapists are starting to incorporate ketamine in their therapy, especially with, you know, trauma or couples therapy, even ⁓ I have friends who have done that. And ⁓ so it's awesome to see that it's starting to be more widely accepted and incorporated. And especially as you had brought up, with the data showing that not only is it great for mental health but longevity as well, because in my mind I don't care how long I live if I'm you know, if I don't have my body, my brain, any of that. Like it's kinda pointless. I care much more about my health than longevity and if this can help with both, like that's insane. That's pretty incredible. Zappy Zapolin: Right, right. Quality. Yeah. Well y you know what's exciting is you know, I when I met Brian Johnson, I gave him some advice before he went down this path. But I reading through the lines when I've watched him recently, and he looks really happy and he's in this relationship with this woman and he loves her and you know, it's like he's in the honeymoon every day. But he I read between the lines and he was kind of saying, you know, he's the Mr. Don't Die, live forever, do whatever you got. And he was kind of saying, like, I got the sense he was saying, you know what? Who cares how long I live? Like, I'm alive right now. I'm living right now. I'm in the present moment. I this is amazing, you know? And so to see that shift in somebody like him, amazing. you know, for folks like you're talking about, find a good guide, find a source, because you're right. When ⁓ when Oregon they had a ⁓ they had some stores where were open, some mushroom stores. For several months before the government came in and shut them down. And there was a line around the block all day and night because people just wanted to get good product. They knew they they understood that there was benefit, but they were like, I need good product. So they would wait instead of getting it from like their cousin's roommate who grew it in the closet, you know, or something like that, you know. And God bless those people, they're doing good work. But Erica+ShameOver: Exactly, yeah. Zappy Zapolin: you really want to understand what you're taking and standardization, dosing, all that. But if you do take it in a microdose, it's subperceptual. It's kind of like the kind of medicine like where homeopathy you take a little bit of the thing and then your body knows what to do with the rest of it and it does it. So you really only have to take a tiny, tiny amount. You will not be tripping. ⁓ you will not s have to surrender control or anything. You're just gonna get in a more lucid state where things are not spinning out all the way to the edge to the edge and further and further. You're just gonna be kind of like focused, have energy, ⁓ know, be kind of in a grateful state. Erica+ShameOver: Love that. Now, this I'm so glad that we had this conversation because I know so many of the women that I work with, super high functioning, many of which are moms that are just doing everything on top of, you know, working, running the household, all of that. And I truly, truly, truly believe most people, not everyone by any means, but at least most people that I work with, they don't have a drinking problem. It's just literally been their solution for dealing with the stress, dealing with the trauma, dealing with life and it's they know it's not serving them, right? And it's it's a depressant, it's all these things, but it's quick, easy, efficient, effective every single time. Exactly. So it's we we need access to things that can be good for us, not as harmful, but that you can do safely and you know that that help with overall mental health is kind of my biggest thing. So I'm very interested in looking more into this. Zappy Zapolin: Yes. Available. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great time. It's a great time to be alive. And then the fact that we're gonna have frequency medicine and they're not gonna cut you open. They're gonna ⁓ know, heal you through frequencies. It's very exciting. Psychedelic medicine, it's gonna be delivered digitally. You're just gonna put on some headphones and get the frequency of mushrooms and your brain is gonna do its thing and your body. It's not gonna know that you didn't take ⁓ a compound. So We really are living in a great time ⁓ go slow. You know, that's really the thing about it. Go slow. Make sure you're in the right s set and setting with somebody who can guide you. But if you are, I would say don't miss out on one of the most fulfilling things in life, which is to go inside yourself and know yourself better and to live like a meaningful life. Because as somebody was saying to me today that Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Zappy Zapolin: ⁓ in their psychedelic journey, they did a big mushroom journey and they were sitting there with God and they said, you know, what's the meaning of life? the mushroom, you know, through God, it said, The meaning of life is to live a life of meaning. And the guy was like, ⁓ wow, you're right. Okay, I gotcha. And it went on to, you know, he asked, like, why ⁓ you know, what ⁓ what he should do. Erica+ShameOver: Mm. Zappy Zapolin: ⁓ going forward and or you know he actually asked like what happens if humans eliminate annihilate ourselves off this planet and then mushroom said you know consciousness ⁓ is pervasive everywhere and if it's you know ⁓ wiped someplace else consciousness will just show up someplace else so don't worry about it and he was like okay thank you you know ⁓ and I really want to Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Zappy Zapolin: you know, portray to you today that these mushrooms, it's not just a plant. it is actually a consciousness and it's here to help you. And if you ask it to be gentle and help you and guide you and give you answers, it will literally do it because it's consciousness and it's here to help you. ⁓ even some of the people like Timothy Leary, ⁓ who's like the 1960s LSD icon, He always said that if you do psychedelics and you encounter some being or some that you think is like an alien or a an entity or a being, he goes, that could just be you from the future coming back to help yourself in the present moment. So just don't be afraid. Maybe just embrace it. You don't recognize yourself in the future. So Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Fascinating. ⁓ my gosh, this was amazing. Well think how can people find you and learn more? Zappy Zapolin: Yeah. So in ⁓ social media, I'm at Zappy Zappa Lin. So Z A P P Y and then my last name is Zappalin, like a violin, Z-A-P-O-L-I-N. Or you can check out psychedelicconcierge.com and see what we've got going. There's information there. There's all kinds of guides and things that you can get for free about like what's the legal landscape, how do you become a guide, you know, what how do you start out microdosing and that kind of stuff. So a lot of information just You know, I would say don't wait for your doctor to give you the sign to do this because, you know, and doctors don't love when I say this, but most doctors don't even know about nutrition, which could solve 80% of the problems they're working on. So why would I think they know about plant medicine? They don't. Don't wait for them. to Johns Hopkins in Yale and Stanford. Don't wait for your doctor in Boca Ratan to internal medicine guy to come along there. Probably if you look at them and they're in terrible health themselves and they seem mentally rattled, don't follow their advice. You know, do what Elon Musk is doing. Do what, you know, people like Steve Jobs and, you know, all these incredible people have done, which is go inside yourself, find your own answers. It's not out there. It's Absolutely inside you. And we have these tools now that we know are safe and effective. So get find somebody to guide you and dive in there. Your life is absolutely going to be better than it would be from a longevity, from mental health, and getting rid of any kind of an addiction. So if we do that, I really believe when people go in there and we emerge back out with more empathy, if we have enough people doing that, we could solve any problem we have. as a society really easily. So it's pretty simple. I don't think we have to worry. We just have to like observe it and let it let it happen. Erica+ShameOver: I agree with you. Yes, and go within. We have all the answers within us. We just don't trust ourselves enough to go there. So ⁓ Zappy, thank you so much. This was wonderful. Zappy Zapolin: Said. I appreciate you. Peace. See you soon. Erica+ShameOver: Thank you.