Latest / Heaven & Healing Podcast / Identifying Strongholds & Unprocessed Emotion | with TJ O’Donnell

Transcript

Identifying Strongholds & Unprocessed Emotion | with TJ O’Donnell · Heaven & Healing Podcast

• 0:00
  I went to a party in Norcco and got into
• 0:02
  a fight with about five guys, I ended up
• 0:04
  shooting one of the dudes and while I
• 0:07
  was on the run from the cops, was hiding
• 0:08
  out in a little white shed and I had
• 0:10
  that crazy encounter really thinking
• 0:13
  that I'm, you know, I'm surrounded. I
• 0:15
  got dogs all around, helicopters above,
• 0:18
  hear voices and in the middle of that uh
• 0:20
  everything just stopped. While I'm in
• 0:21
  prison, I get in trouble. And when you
• 0:23
  get in trouble in prison, you go to
• 0:25
  prison within the prison where it's
• 0:27
  basically isolation. They call it the
• 0:29
  hole. So, I went to the hole. The only
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  thing that's in there is a Bible, a
• 0:31
  little piece of pen and a jumpsuit.
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  >> I know that there's people out there,
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  why aren't I better by now? Like, there
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  are people that have been walking with
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  the Lord. They've been crucifying the
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  flesh. They've been in their word.
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  They've been renewing their mind, but
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  they can't. Psychology, as we know it,
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  like modernly, secularly, even in
• 0:46
  Christian circles does not take into
• 0:48
  account the demonic. And then some
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  deliverance ministries
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  >> don't take
• 0:52
  >> do not take into account like the
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  psychological. People [music] do feel
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  lonely. They feel like I'm not getting
• 0:57
  I'm not getting out of my church. This
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  might be a really loaded question. How
• 1:01
  do you know? Is this an unprocessed
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  emotion? Is this a lie I'm believing? Or
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  is this a demon?
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  >> He's got to gain access somewhere,
• 1:08
  right?
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  >> The enemy, you mean?
• 1:10
  >> Yeah. It goes to a whole different
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  level. Actually, when when it's a demon,
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  it has a voice.
• 1:21
  >> Hi, welcome.
• 1:22
  >> Here we are again. [laughter] I feel
• 1:24
  like we just did this only in a
• 1:25
  different setting. I actually haven't
• 1:26
  been to your house in a while.
• 1:30
  >> Yeah, because we always drive to you
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  >> cuz you live in the middle of nowhere.
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  >> We always make the sacrificial drive.
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  >> Yeah. And it's almost impossible to get
• 1:38
  here cuz it's so far out of the way.
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  >> Okay. For anybody that's unfamiliar with
• 1:44
  you, can you just share very briefly uh
• 1:47
  your testimony like how you came to know
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  the Lord and then from there we'll get
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  into how you came to understand
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  deliverance as being a really integral
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  part of the journey.
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  >> Absolutely. And it's crazy because you
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  said this is going to be a real easy
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  conversation and one of the hardest
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  things for me to do is break down my
• 2:08
  testimony because there's so many so
• 2:11
  many details and plus I know you so well
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  now you know when you get to know
• 2:15
  someone really well. It's like a family
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  member.
• 2:19
  >> Yeah.
• 2:19
  >> It's just almost a little bit harder
• 2:21
  even to
• 2:21
  >> Yeah, I hear you
• 2:22
  >> have deep conversations. But
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  >> yeah.
• 2:24
  >> Yeah. But here we go. Okay. So,
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  let's see. How can I nutshell this? Uh,
• 2:30
  man, first Christian in my whole family
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  line. Completely grew up apart from God.
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  Domestic violence.
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  Um, grew up in a broken home. You know,
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  mom and dad separated when I was five
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  and just a lot of trauma, a lot of fear,
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  a lot of anger, a lot of rejection. Um,
• 2:51
  started getting in trouble real early.
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  Um, right when I got into school, I
• 2:56
  started getting in trouble and it kind
• 2:57
  of escalated. Uh, I got out of high
• 3:00
  school. Uh, I did graduate with a 4.0.
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  Um, which is a whole another story, but
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  so there was some favor on my life. But
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  when I got out of high school, I became
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  a tattoo artist. And that kind of led me
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  down a really dark path because in those
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  days, you know, right out of high
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  school, tattooing was like we had no
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  rules, no nothing. We just partied all
• 3:24
  the time and made cash money. And uh so,
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  you know, I compromised in areas that I
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  probably wouldn't have early on. Um,
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  like all my friends growing up were
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  doing meth.
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  >> But I don't know, something inside of me
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  was just like I don't I don't want to do
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  that.
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  But man, when I got out of high school
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  and was tattooing, we were playing in a
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  band and one night I just I don't know,
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  I just opened that door. You know, we
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  had this term called living the life.
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  I was just like, man, we're living the
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  life, so I'm just going to go for it.
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  And it, you know, just really opened a
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  door to a lot of a lot of different
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  things.
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  um even more than the trauma that that I
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  that I grew up with a lot of witchcraft
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  and stuff. You know, when you do drugs,
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  it opens up a whole new world of
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  >> witchcraft. Yeah, we can we can get into
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  that. But um and I really, you know, I
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  experienced that firsthand, you know,
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  and then I started studying the Bible
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  later on. I look back and I go, man, you
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  just I just can't ever argue with that
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  because I actually experienced the level
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  of, you know, um fear and manipulation
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  and things that come in with that. But
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  but anyway, so that led me down a pretty
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  dark path for, you know, a couple years
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  um up and down. I almost died several
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  times and um you know, it culminated
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  where I went to a party in Norcco
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  and got into a fight with about five
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  guys. I ended up shooting one of the
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  dudes and while I was on the run from
• 4:56
  the cops
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  was hiding out in a little white shed
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  and I had that crazy encounter, you
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  know, that some people talk about where
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  out of nowhere I'm sitting there hiding
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  in this little white shed
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  really thinking that I'm, you know, I'm
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  surrounded. I got dogs all around,
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  helicopters above, hear voices. And in
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  the middle of that, uh, everything just
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  stopped. And I saw my life just kind of
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  flash before my eyes like a video
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  replay. Every person I hurt, everything
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  I did to ruin my life. And then I saw a
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  vision of my mom crying. And that's the
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  that's the thing that really broke me,
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  you know. Um, I would say that that was
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  a repentant moment for me, God showing
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  me my my sin. And and I it just broke my
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  heart. broke down in the middle of that
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  and and it's almost like I forgot where
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  I was for a moment and it was so real
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  that vision I saw and in the midst of
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  that just breaking down um and this
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  presence came into the into the shed and
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  just almost illuminated the darkness
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  like now I experience that feeling now I
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  know it's the Holy Spirit I didn't know
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  anything about that stuff then but man I
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  felt the peace of God um just
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  overwhelmed me and my first thought was
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  this has to be God, you know. And so,
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  um, yeah, I I mean, I had kind of prayed
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  before like maybe cursing God or why are
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  you doing this or who are you type
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  thing, but this was one of those things
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  where I was pretty sure it was God and I
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  was like, you know what, God, if you're
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  real and this is you and you can make
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  all this go away,
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  I'll give you my life. And um that's the
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  last thing I remember saying and I
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  completely passed out. Um you know it
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  was like being put to sleep or
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  something. Amnesia. I just or not
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  amnesia.
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  >> Amnesia. [laughter]
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  >> Anesthesia.
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  Yeah.
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  >> Yeah. I just was like out and next thing
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  you know I woke back up and it was four
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  hours later. Cops were gone and the
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  first thing I remember was was praying
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  that prayer and God actually answering
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  that prayer.
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  But of course, you know, I was free but
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  not right. So now I'm like, "Okay, well,
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  they didn't catch me, but what do I do?"
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  So I prayed again. I'm like, "God, okay,
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  now what do I do?" And I always say, "I
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  never read a book up to that point.
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  Never read uh the Bible." And um it was
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  the old Matthew 6:33. It wasn't
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  verbatim, but it was like, "Do the right
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  thing, God said, and I'll take care of
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  all the details."
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  And I knew the right thing was I was
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  going to have to take responsibility for
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  what I did, you know, turn myself in and
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  and all that stuff. And um and so I did,
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  you know, that was my really my first
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  step of faith. Um
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  went to my dad, told him what I did. He
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  took me down to the station and
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  and uh I was being charged with
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  attempted murder. Um they had my gun,
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  had my wallet, had everything already.
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  And I end up going to court and my
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  public defender is like, "Well, I got
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  good news and bad news where you shot
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  the dude didn't do major damage." And
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  there were some people that came forward
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  from this party testifying that, you
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  know, these five guys that you got into
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  it were drunk and they beat somebody up
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  earlier and you were defending yourself.
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  But the judge knows you're on drugs.
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  It's not your gun. Like he says, "I
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  don't recommend uh you you you fight
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  this. He's going to offer you a deal."
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  um and he's going to lower it from
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  attempted murder to assault with a
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  firearm and offer you two years in
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  prison. And so, uh I took the deal.
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  Young guy trying to figure it out. I go
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  to prison for two years. Um and while
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  I'm in prison, I get in trouble. And
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  when you get in trouble in prison, you
• 8:47
  go to a prison within the prison where
• 8:49
  it's basically isolation. They call it
• 8:51
  the hole. So, I went to the hole. The
• 8:53
  only thing that's in there is a Bible,
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  right? a little piece of pen and a
• 8:56
  jumpsuit. So, uh it was at that moment
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  that I started reading the Bible and
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  things just started kind of coming to
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  life, you know, and and then I got a
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  cellmate, which was not supposed to
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  happen, but because of overcrowding, you
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  know, in in California, um they let me
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  have a Sally. He was only there for a
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  couple days. I'll never forget this guy.
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  His name was Vinnie Bruno.
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  Bad hair, bad teeth, small little skinny
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  guy, you know, tattoos. And um he saw me
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  reading the Bible and he's like, "Hey,
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  man. Can I show you a few things? And
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  yeah, I told him the shed story and all
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  that stuff and uh took me to Romans. He
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  said, "That God you're talking to, his
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  name is Jesus." And all those bad things
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  you've done, man. The thing is is any
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  little thing, any little fraction
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  separates us from God. The Bible says
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  we've all sinned and been separated from
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  God. And uh but the good news is he came
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  to this earth. He died and rose again to
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  set you free and to set us all free from
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  sins and give us a second opportunity.
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  >> And and it sounded crazy, but in that
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  moment, I just knew that just hit me
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  like a ton of bricks that God loved me
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  enough that he would do that for me. And
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  I just broke down. And
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  >> so I'm like, what do I do? And he's
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  like, well, first thing you could do is
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  just pray, confess him. He took me
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  again, I was in Romans, so he told me
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  about confessing the Lord. And so I
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  prayed, received Christ. um felt the
• 10:21
  weight kind of lift off immediately. My
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  language changed. I couldn't drop the
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  fbomb anymore. It was just like
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  >> was just part of my language, you know,
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  and and I'm like, why does that sound
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  weird now? Why can't I say that? You
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  know, things were just changing.
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  >> Um
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  and did you experience that?
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  >> You did. Like it's just
• 10:42
  >> Yeah, it's
• 10:43
  >> I'm I'm you know, I'm writing my book
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  right now. So, I was just reflecting
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  literally a couple nights ago, I wrote
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  about how when I just came to him, like
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  I just didn't want to listen to the same
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  music. I didn't want to watch the same
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  stuff. I didn't want to I I really
• 10:56
  didn't want to do anything because
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  nothing
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  >> I I I kind of sort of like had no
• 11:01
  interests anymore outside of just
• 11:04
  >> giving my all to this thing. Yeah.
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  >> And that's before Mike was saved. And
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  he's like, you uh you don't even have an
• 11:11
  identity anymore. You don't even know
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  who you were. And it's like, it's crazy
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  because he was describing what Jesus
• 11:17
  says is going to happen when you come to
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  him. Like, you're going to die to
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  yourself. It's no longer you that live.
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  >> And Mike's like yelling at me,
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  condemning me, thinking that it's an
• 11:26
  insult. When in a way it was like a
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  backhanded compliment from the demonic,
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  like, oh,
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  >> you really have died. Like, it it isn't
• 11:34
  like I don't know who you are anymore.
• 11:36
  Good. [laughter]
• 11:37
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 11:38
  >> Good that you don't know who I am
• 11:39
  anymore. So, same thing did happen to me
• 11:41
  just uh kind of in a different way.
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  >> And it's weird because it's not
• 11:44
  something you ask for. It's not
• 11:46
  something
• 11:46
  >> just happens.
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  >> It just it just happens. And until
• 11:49
  someone's in that position, it's like,
• 11:52
  you know, a year down the road or
• 11:54
  whatever might get saved. But at that
• 11:56
  point, it's like the Bible says it's
• 11:58
  foolishness. You know, it's like God
• 12:00
  chose the foolish things of the world to
• 12:02
  confound the wise. And until the spirit
• 12:05
  of God enlightens you,
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  um, you just can't even understand. You
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  know what I mean? Because I never would
• 12:12
  have thought that. I never would have
• 12:13
  thought in a million years, well, I'm
• 12:16
  going to give my life to God and then my
• 12:17
  language is going to change and I'm
• 12:18
  going to feel weird about doing this,
• 12:19
  weird about doing that,
• 12:20
  >> right?
• 12:21
  >> Um, but but it did, you know, obviously
• 12:25
  though, you know, I had a long way to
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  go. I mean, a lot of trauma, a lot of
• 12:29
  lot of
• 12:30
  >> twisted thinking, a lot of demonic stuff
• 12:32
  in my life.
• 12:34
  that I that I didn't know all the depths
• 12:36
  of it at that time. I just knew it was
• 12:37
  bad.
• 12:38
  >> Yeah.
• 12:38
  >> Um the anger, the rage, the violence.
• 12:41
  >> Um
• 12:41
  >> so fast forward to that. So you you get
• 12:44
  out, you receive Christ and you get out
• 12:47
  way sooner than you really should have
• 12:48
  for what you did, which was just like
• 12:49
  the favor of the Lord and all these
• 12:50
  things, which by the way guys, if you
• 12:52
  want to hear the full testimony, Little
• 12:54
  White Shed by TJ O'Donnell. This is like
• 12:57
  his autobiography, how he came to the
• 12:59
  Lord, all of the things. So you can go
• 13:02
  find this on Amazon. So I want to get to
• 13:05
  when you
• 13:07
  >> got deliverance for the first time and
• 13:09
  how that changed your walk because I
• 13:11
  don't want to make this just about
• 13:12
  deliverance. I do want to talk about the
• 13:14
  strongholds and as we were saying
• 13:17
  pre-roll like understanding
• 13:20
  >> the depth of human emotion and the
• 13:22
  necessity of kind of like processing
• 13:24
  those with the Lord.
• 13:26
  >> Yeah.
• 13:26
  >> And really bearing your soul to him like
• 13:28
  it says in Psalms. That's something both
• 13:30
  of us kind of just went through
• 13:32
  recently. And you're a lot further along
• 13:34
  in your walk than I am. So,
• 13:35
  >> well, and and it's been a long journey
• 13:37
  though, like and and I think one of the
• 13:41
  reasons is and I really am reflecting on
• 13:44
  this, you know, latter part of my life
• 13:48
  as I'm getting older.
• 13:50
  And God's really starting to define,
• 13:54
  you know, what he's requiring of me
• 13:56
  >> in this last part of my life. And one of
• 13:59
  those is
• 14:00
  >> part of your life.
• 14:01
  >> Well, I mean, okay. Well, look, I'm 54.
• 14:04
  Okay. So, I'm If I live to be a hundred,
• 14:08
  I'm still past 50%.
• 14:10
  >> Me and Mike said that you're going to be
• 14:12
  like you're going to be like Moses
• 14:14
  because we we don't want you to go
• 14:16
  anywhere. So, you're going to live until
• 14:18
  like
• 14:19
  >> like I don't know 300 or something.
• 14:21
  [laughter]
• 14:23
  >> Life goes by so fast. The the good news
• 14:26
  is I can't wait to be with him. Like I
• 14:29
  can't wait to be in Glory. You know what
• 14:30
  I'm saying? But
• 14:31
  >> that was one of the biggest criticisms
• 14:33
  Mike had. I remember I don't want to go
• 14:35
  off on a tangent, but you'll think this
• 14:36
  is funny.
• 14:37
  >> I remember hearing him talk on his game
• 14:40
  set to some of his friends before I got
• 14:42
  or before he got saved and he's like
• 14:44
  >> reading the reviews about the church
• 14:47
  that we were going to that he would come
• 14:49
  with me sometimes. He's like, "It's so
• 14:50
  weird. It's like a cult and these people
• 14:52
  they they can't wait. They can't wait to
• 14:54
  die.
• 14:54
  >> [laughter]
• 14:55
  >> Oh my gosh.
• 14:56
  >> He thought it was so weird cuz you don't
• 14:58
  understand like how
• 15:00
  >> somebody could have actual peace with
• 15:01
  the idea of dying
• 15:03
  >> like for us cuz we're not dying.
• 15:05
  >> That's exactly
• 15:06
  >> we don't die like the body
• 15:08
  >> the body is going to die but it's going
• 15:10
  to be resurrected. Our spirit has been
• 15:12
  born again. Right. So right now we are
• 15:15
  eternal.
• 15:16
  >> Yeah.
• 15:17
  >> That's I mean have eternal life. I mean
• 15:19
  I I believe all souls are eternal.
• 15:21
  >> Yes. But um
• 15:22
  >> it's another pattern of threes too.
• 15:24
  >> Totally.
• 15:25
  >> Because you get justified and then you
• 15:26
  get [clears throat] sanctified and then
• 15:27
  you get resurrected.
• 15:28
  >> Well, all stuff that I didn't understand
• 15:30
  in the beginning. Partly because and as
• 15:32
  I as I'm saying about you know
• 15:34
  >> what I feel God has called me to do is
• 15:38
  number one um
• 15:41
  is to is to really defend and proclaim
• 15:44
  the fullness of the gospel.
• 15:45
  >> Yeah.
• 15:46
  >> You know, my experience with being born
• 15:48
  again was was just scratching the
• 15:50
  surface. It's all I knew. Um I didn't
• 15:53
  know,
• 15:55
  you know, that the gospel was bigger
• 15:56
  than that, that it actually applied
• 15:59
  to my mind, my will, my emotion, which
• 16:03
  is my soul. I didn't know that uh you
• 16:06
  know, I I did know about resurrection,
• 16:08
  but I didn't know I didn't preach that.
• 16:11
  You know what I mean? Like
• 16:12
  >> this is the fullness of what God is
• 16:14
  completing. You're getting born again of
• 16:15
  spirit, sanctified in the soul, you'll
• 16:18
  be glorified in in resurrection. like I
• 16:20
  didn't know any of that.
• 16:22
  >> So when you're only given a portion of
• 16:26
  that information, then your life is just
• 16:28
  going to reflect that. You know, oh hey,
• 16:31
  >> wow,
• 16:31
  >> I overcame death. Cool. Now I'm waiting
• 16:33
  to go to heaven. Well, that's that's not
• 16:36
  complete. You know what I mean? Because
• 16:40
  um my citizenship started when I got
• 16:42
  born again. But the completion and the
• 16:45
  sanctification of my soul is going to
• 16:47
  take this lifetime of me being here and
• 16:49
  then my body is going to resurrect at
• 16:51
  the return of Christ and and I'll be
• 16:53
  complete and come back to return with
• 16:55
  him. Right. So
• 16:56
  >> yeah,
• 16:56
  >> that's just not something that's really
• 16:58
  preached that much
• 17:00
  >> if at all. I I didn't hear that hardly
• 17:02
  at all on my journey. So you know that's
• 17:06
  part of the problem. So the problem is I
• 17:09
  got born again and there's a part of me
• 17:13
  that completely changed and then there
• 17:15
  was a lot of part parts of me that
• 17:17
  didn't. And all I knew was okay well if
• 17:20
  you just repent,
• 17:22
  if you just crucify the flesh, that's
• 17:24
  all you need to do and and you'll
• 17:26
  overcome. Well, there's parts of me that
• 17:28
  I would repent. I would repent. I would
• 17:30
  crucify the flesh and still had these
• 17:34
  same patterns.
• 17:36
  And I'm like, man, there's got to be
• 17:38
  something more. Well,
• 17:41
  um, I got out of prison, brand new life,
• 17:44
  you know, like never been to church,
• 17:46
  like maybe Catholic church a few times
• 17:48
  on holidays or whatever,
• 17:50
  >> but it was it was a a new experience for
• 17:53
  me. And and um, you know, right away
• 17:55
  they're like, "Hear my story. You're
• 17:57
  called to be a pastor, to be an
• 17:59
  evangelist, and and this and that." And
• 18:01
  so, all I knew was to get people born
• 18:02
  again like I did.
• 18:04
  I didn't I didn't know how to apply the
• 18:07
  gospel to get free in the mind, get free
• 18:10
  in in the soul and those kind of things
• 18:12
  from demonic spirits and all that.
• 18:15
  >> So I lived gosh I don't know 15 years or
• 18:19
  so 13 years something like that. I don't
• 18:21
  know what the math is but um you know I
• 18:24
  had become a pastor planted my own
• 18:27
  church did all these all these great
• 18:30
  things but still had turmoil in my own
• 18:32
  life.
• 18:34
  And um you know I planted a church in '
• 18:37
  07.
• 18:39
  In the midst of that uh my wife of 14
• 18:41
  years
• 18:43
  um cheated on me and left and I lost
• 18:46
  everything. And that was probably the
• 18:50
  hardest thing I ever went through.
• 18:53
  Before I didn't have God in my life. So
• 18:55
  when I got born again it was like I got
• 18:57
  God everything's cool. Now I have God
• 18:59
  and it's like my whole world just fell
• 19:02
  apart. everything that you know what I
• 19:04
  mean
• 19:05
  I endured and built and pastor this and
• 19:10
  all this and that was was was gone and
• 19:12
  and I didn't understand it. Um
• 19:16
  and so yeah unfortunately and this
• 19:20
  happens to a lot of people because I
• 19:21
  didn't know the power of deliverance
• 19:25
  strongholds all the things that we're
• 19:26
  talking about. I actually fell back and
• 19:30
  just went to what I knew to make myself
• 19:32
  feel better because I was in such pain.
• 19:35
  So, I didn't get back on doing drugs.
• 19:36
  But, you know,
• 19:37
  >> were you mad at God?
• 19:39
  >> I just didn't understand. I wasn't mad
• 19:41
  at God because
• 19:43
  I had such a powerful experience when I
• 19:46
  got born again and I seen too many
• 19:48
  things. I just didn't understand, you
• 19:52
  know, was and and I think a lot of
• 19:53
  people are experienc the same. like why
• 19:56
  I didn't have the information that's why
• 19:58
  I didn't know I could be free from some
• 20:00
  of these things and uh so it was it was
• 20:03
  a hard season and God was very merciful
• 20:05
  man like
• 20:07
  >> you know I I would I can say this going
• 20:12
  back to a sinful lifestyle as a
• 20:15
  Christian pastor
• 20:17
  I experienced the the difference of
• 20:20
  being someone who's actually born again
• 20:22
  and trying to do those
• 20:25
  It's absolut It was absolutely almost
• 20:27
  impossible.
• 20:28
  >> You ever hear that that quote that says
• 20:31
  um a backsliden Christian has too much
• 20:35
  Christ to enjoy the world and too much
• 20:38
  of the world to enjoy Christ.
• 20:40
  >> It's crazy. It's a It's a crazy place to
• 20:42
  be.
• 20:43
  >> Yeah,
• 20:43
  >> it was it was really one of the worst
• 20:46
  >> places to be in my life. I experienced a
• 20:48
  lot of trauma in my life. That that was
• 20:50
  the hardest one. prison was nothing
• 20:52
  compared to going through
• 20:55
  that season. But, you know, I met Shauna
• 20:58
  and in that season, God was merciful
• 21:01
  there, too. She wasn't saved.
• 21:03
  >> Yeah.
• 21:04
  >> She um was searching just like me, only
• 21:07
  she hadn't been born again yet. And um
• 21:11
  God graciously allowed us together to to
• 21:14
  rebuild.
• 21:15
  Um, so I started going back to church
• 21:17
  and
• 21:20
  man, you know, I was a pastor at a at
• 21:22
  two big churches in the Inland Empire
• 21:25
  and um was known and I tried to go back
• 21:28
  to the the first church that I kind of
• 21:30
  grew up in. They put me through school
• 21:32
  and and stuff and it's a great church,
• 21:34
  but it kind of turned over. I didn't
• 21:36
  really know anybody there anymore, you
• 21:39
  know, and it felt it was big and I just
• 21:41
  I didn't have really any direction. And
• 21:42
  so I tried going to my other church
• 21:45
  where I was a pastor, evangelism pastor,
• 21:48
  and I walk in with a hot blonde and to
• 21:51
  to the fault of nobody else but my own
• 21:53
  because it was an assignment. It was a
• 21:54
  spirit that was creating these
• 21:56
  circumstances
• 21:57
  >> for me to feel like people were looking
• 21:59
  at me like
• 22:01
  he's, you know, that's not TJ's wife.
• 22:03
  He's walking in with this blonde girl.
• 22:05
  Like who is she? They knew that
• 22:08
  something happened to me and I went
• 22:10
  through a divorce and all this stuff,
• 22:11
  but they don't know the story. So, it
• 22:13
  felt like I was almost getting the blame
• 22:16
  for it and they didn't even know. So, it
• 22:17
  was it was hurtful. It might not it
• 22:20
  might not even have been reality.
• 22:22
  >> You know what I'm saying? But that's
• 22:23
  what was going on in the battle of my
• 22:26
  mind and the spirit um that was messing
• 22:28
  with me, you know? And um so finally,
• 22:32
  again, God's mercy, we me and my wife
• 22:36
  landed at a little church plant that
• 22:39
  wasn't known. And um we started getting
• 22:43
  some healing, you know, uh practical
• 22:45
  stuff, some practical healing, getting
• 22:48
  back into the flow with God.
• 22:50
  >> Then I started feeling a little
• 22:51
  pressured because it was a church plant.
• 22:54
  And so I'm like, well, they need help
• 22:56
  and I know how to teach the word. So I
• 22:58
  would start teaching. Oh, they need some
• 23:01
  help with worship. So I get up and I'd
• 23:02
  start doing worship. But I was still
• 23:04
  really hurting, you know. And so um
• 23:08
  yeah, in the middle of that PE and then
• 23:10
  people started hearing, oh TJ's doing
• 23:12
  ministry again, you know, trip 7 and and
• 23:15
  they start coming to this church and
• 23:17
  this church starts to grow. And I'm
• 23:19
  like, oh shoot, okay, well this is cool.
• 23:21
  like I'm still feeling like I'm being
• 23:25
  used and having purpose and all like I'm
• 23:27
  bringing these people to this church,
• 23:28
  but then I started getting pressured.
• 23:30
  Why don't you do your own thing, you
• 23:31
  know, like let's do triple 7 again? And
• 23:34
  so I tried going down that rabbit hole.
• 23:36
  Um we started meeting in an old coffee
• 23:38
  shop in downtown Riverside. Real dark
• 23:41
  place, you know, I really I knew that
• 23:44
  God was calling me to the darkest
• 23:46
  places, but you don't set up camp in a
• 23:49
  dark place. That's one thing I I learned
• 23:52
  in that season because the church that I
• 23:54
  had when I planted my church was in a
• 23:56
  nightclub
• 23:57
  >> and you know I thought I was being
• 23:58
  relevant. I thought I was going into but
• 24:01
  a church should be sanctified then you
• 24:03
  can go in and you know bring people into
• 24:04
  the fold and that kind of thing. That's
• 24:06
  my opinion because I tried doing it
• 24:08
  again in this dark place and I just I
• 24:10
  just I got my butt kicked, you know,
• 24:12
  like people were getting saved, born
• 24:13
  again, and all that stuff and God was
• 24:15
  growing it because that I think that
• 24:17
  gift is on my life. But I was being
• 24:20
  tormented
• 24:21
  and knew that God's not telling me to do
• 24:24
  this. You know, I'm being led by people.
• 24:27
  I'm I have a fear of rejection. Like
• 24:29
  they want me to do this, so I'm going to
• 24:30
  do it, you know?
• 24:32
  >> And so finally I'm like, I can't do this
• 24:34
  anymore.
• 24:36
  I tried to go back to that church,
• 24:39
  the little church plant, and I was
• 24:42
  rejected. You know, I can't go start try
• 24:44
  to start something and then come back.
• 24:46
  You know, it's just it was just a a
• 24:48
  bummer.
• 24:50
  >> But um anyway, in the midst of that, I
• 24:52
  kept getting a text message from a
• 24:53
  friend of mine who was going to a church
• 24:56
  in San Frernardino.
• 24:58
  Um which that's actually where I planted
• 25:01
  my trip 7 church was in San Frernardino.
• 25:04
  And um I had become friends with a with
• 25:07
  a pastor out there uh Latino preacher,
• 25:11
  Pastor Marco Garcia. Amazing, amazing
• 25:13
  man. Um his story is wild and amazing.
• 25:17
  But anyway, I had when I had my church,
• 25:19
  we developed a friendship and just love
• 25:22
  the city of Sanino. I wanted to help
• 25:24
  people. When I went through all that, I
• 25:26
  went back to Riverside, lost touch with
• 25:28
  him. So anyway, I'm getting the text
• 25:30
  message from this guy and I realize he's
• 25:32
  going to Pastor Marco's church and
• 25:33
  something just hits me. I need to go
• 25:35
  visit Pastor Marco. We go to a service
• 25:37
  and I just got hit with the Holy Spirit
• 25:40
  like in the little white shed. Like the
• 25:43
  power of God, the presence of God, I
• 25:44
  felt so strong like never before. And I
• 25:48
  knew I was in the right place. And um so
• 25:51
  anyways, after service, Pastor Marco,
• 25:53
  he's usually on the altar like back in
• 25:55
  his office or whatever, but he happened
• 25:56
  to be at the the door where everybody
• 25:58
  was leaving and I ran right into him and
• 26:02
  he's like, "Dude, where you been?" I'm
• 26:04
  like, "Man, I've been through hell and
• 26:05
  back." Like he's like, "Yeah, I can
• 26:06
  tell. You need to come see me tomorrow."
• 26:09
  And um so I knew it was urgent because
• 26:13
  he said tomorrow. So, I changed my
• 26:15
  schedule and I made sure that I went and
• 26:18
  saw him the next day. Anyways, I go to
• 26:20
  see Pastor Marco and I sit in his
• 26:24
  office.
• 26:26
  Um, he's sitting in his desk over here.
• 26:28
  I'm in a chair like this and he has this
• 26:31
  little notebook and uh he says, "Just
• 26:34
  tell me everything that's happened to
• 26:36
  you from the beginning when you were
• 26:38
  little." Like, okay. So, I started
• 26:42
  sharing my testimony, right? So, I kind
• 26:44
  of knew how to share from all the stuff
• 26:47
  I've been through when I was little and
• 26:48
  just I don't know, it maybe took an hour
• 26:51
  of just chopping through this stuff,
• 26:53
  right? I'm getting emotional because
• 26:54
  it's triggering stuff. It's bringing
• 26:56
  stuff up in my life. And
• 26:59
  anyway, I I kind of get to the end and
• 27:02
  he closes his notebook and he looks at
• 27:05
  me. I'll never forget this. He looked
• 27:08
  right at me and I, you know, I was
• 27:10
  trained even in prison. If you don't
• 27:12
  make eye contact with people, this is
• 27:14
  demonic, too, because demons, you know
• 27:16
  what I mean? They transfer
• 27:18
  or they get, you know, they can see
• 27:20
  through the eyes. So,
• 27:22
  >> so in prison, you don't make eye contact
• 27:24
  with somebody because what happens is
• 27:26
  immediately you'll get into a fight.
• 27:28
  >> It's just like that. You make eye
• 27:31
  contact, it's like, "What's up? What do
• 27:32
  you" You know, it's like,
• 27:32
  >> yeah.
• 27:34
  >> So, anyway, Pastor Marco looked at me
• 27:37
  and for some reason, I just felt okay.
• 27:39
  Like, he loved me. I'm not in prison.
• 27:42
  And I looked right into his eyes and he
• 27:44
  said, "You have a spirit of rejection
• 27:46
  that came into your life when you were 5
• 27:47
  years old. And that spirit's creating
• 27:50
  circumstances for you to be rejected and
• 27:53
  nobody knows it. And you're being driven
• 27:55
  by it." And all of a sudden, something
• 27:58
  in my belly started turning almost
• 28:00
  cramping up. I'm like, "Oh." And I went,
• 28:03
  "Oh." And he he kind of knew what was
• 28:06
  happening. So he jumped over the desk
• 28:09
  and he just started prophesying. He's an
• 28:11
  evangelist. Let him go. Like he's called
• 28:14
  by God. Spirit of rejection, come out.
• 28:17
  And I start dry heaving.
• 28:20
  And man, I'm not throwing up food, but
• 28:22
  I'm dry heaving. I'm like, what is
• 28:24
  happening to me? Like I had no clue, no
• 28:27
  context for this stuff. I just knew what
• 28:30
  I was experiencing. I knew I could trust
• 28:31
  Pastor Marco. And something inside me
• 28:34
  just said, "Lay your life down. just
• 28:36
  trust and let go. And man, he's
• 28:39
  commanding stuff. I'm crying, snotting.
• 28:43
  He's holding me in his arms.
• 28:46
  And man, when I got done, I just
• 28:49
  [laughter]
• 28:49
  I'm a mess.
• 28:50
  >> Yeah.
• 28:51
  >> And Pastor Marco full of snot and tears,
• 28:55
  he just said, "Are you okay?" Like, you
• 28:57
  know, um I'm like, "Man, I I don't know
• 29:00
  what happened just now, but I feel more
• 29:03
  free than the day I got born again. you
• 29:05
  know, it was just
• 29:07
  >> I I don't know how to explain it, but
• 29:10
  and and really because it's in the realm
• 29:12
  of the soul, your emotions and all that
• 29:14
  stuff, but so it's a heightened
• 29:17
  experience.
• 29:18
  I went home and my wife's like, "What
• 29:20
  happened?" I'm like, "What do you mean?"
• 29:22
  She she's like, "Your face is glowing."
• 29:24
  Like there was a particular glow on my
• 29:26
  face because all that dark stuff
• 29:29
  came out and it actually shown on my
• 29:32
  face. And so, you know, I had spent the
• 29:36
  first part of my my life as a Christian.
• 29:39
  I went to Southern Baptist Bible School.
• 29:41
  Like, I studied the Bible. Like, I love
• 29:44
  the Bible. It's the passion of my life.
• 29:46
  And I'm like, "God,
• 29:48
  you need to show me how this works.
• 29:51
  I There's no way this is demonic.
• 29:54
  I'm too changed. I'm too free." Um,
• 29:57
  matter of fact, I don't know, a week
• 30:00
  later or whatever, Pastor Marco I I
• 30:02
  immediately joined the church and um,
• 30:06
  Pastor Marco just took me under the
• 30:08
  wing. Like there's people that have been
• 30:09
  in the church for years and don't get
• 30:10
  next to Pastor Marco, right?
• 30:13
  And so I had a lot of people hating on
• 30:15
  me,
• 30:16
  >> you know, like I could feel I could feel
• 30:19
  it and it and I began to realize, wait a
• 30:22
  minute, it's not them. It's that
• 30:24
  assignment.
• 30:25
  like I could see it on people as they're
• 30:28
  hating on me, trying to reject me. And
• 30:30
  so instead of me getting offended and
• 30:32
  like I realized, okay, I'm not going to
• 30:35
  bow to that. I'm going to stay next to
• 30:37
  Pastor Marco. I'm not going to, you
• 30:39
  know, pull away and because I don't want
• 30:42
  people to make people uncomfortable. No,
• 30:45
  I saw it and that and that was a game
• 30:47
  changer for me. I started to realize,
• 30:48
  okay, I can see things different now.
• 30:52
  like I still had to work through the
• 30:54
  emotion and the feeling and the mindset,
• 30:58
  but um
• 31:00
  >> I think that's important because the
• 31:02
  demon goes away sometimes, but the
• 31:04
  assignment doesn't.
• 31:06
  >> Yes. And and so we can we can get into
• 31:09
  that. Um and there's there's reasons for
• 31:11
  that. But you know, but for framework,
• 31:17
  the first thing that the Lord told me
• 31:19
  when I when I asked him how this works
• 31:22
  was he said, "You're the temple of the
• 31:24
  Holy Spirit."
• 31:26
  And it just the light clicked on because
• 31:27
  I knew as a as a Bible student, you
• 31:30
  know, that the Old Testament is the
• 31:33
  blueprint for the New Testament. And
• 31:36
  that, you know, Hebrew prophecy is about
• 31:39
  types and shadows, types and patterns.
• 31:42
  Right. So I'm like, okay, so the the the
• 31:44
  temple is a type of me as a person. So
• 31:49
  there has to be some functionality
• 31:51
  that operates the same. And I started
• 31:54
  looking at it. The Lord took me to the
• 31:56
  book of Nehemiah.
• 31:58
  And when Nehemiah set the temple up and
• 32:01
  got everything in order, um he went to
• 32:04
  fulfill his duties to the king. When he
• 32:06
  came back, Eliashibb, the high priest,
• 32:08
  had allowed Tobaya, Moabitete, an enemy,
• 32:11
  to live in the storehouse in the temple.
• 32:14
  And it was everything was established.
• 32:16
  They were they were offering sacrifice.
• 32:17
  They were it was operating properly.
• 32:20
  >> And so it dawned on me that when
• 32:23
  Nehemiah came back, the first thing he
• 32:24
  did was cast him out.
• 32:27
  He drove him out and all his items and
• 32:30
  replaced them with the items that you
• 32:33
  know are for worship. And so the Lord
• 32:36
  began to show me the framework
• 32:39
  um of the ho the holy of holies,
• 32:43
  >> right? The holy place in the temple and
• 32:45
  the courtyard and how it relates to the
• 32:47
  spirit, soul, and the body. And so he
• 32:51
  just unpacked this, you know, for years
• 32:54
  now. It's God has just been unpacking.
• 32:56
  >> It's just so logical, too.
• 32:58
  >> It really is.
• 32:59
  >> It really is simple.
• 33:00
  >> It's very simple. It's Yes. And we
• 33:05
  complicate things. And a lot of times
• 33:07
  it's because of we don't have context,
• 33:11
  >> right?
• 33:11
  >> We're seeing through a lens we should
• 33:12
  never see through. And we're imposing on
• 33:15
  the scriptures our culture, our our
• 33:17
  experience, our understanding. Bible's
• 33:19
  written to second temple Jewish people.
• 33:21
  You know what I mean? Like you have to
• 33:23
  see through their lens to to really
• 33:25
  understand this stuff. And then it is
• 33:27
  very simple.
• 33:29
  Um but just just understanding and then
• 33:34
  and then scriptures would pop up, you
• 33:36
  know, like um it's 1 Thessalonians I
• 33:39
  think 5:23.
• 33:41
  Don't quote me on that, but it's um
• 33:44
  where he talks about being sanctified
• 33:46
  fully completely, right? Spirit, soul,
• 33:50
  and body. And it's very plain. The word
• 33:52
  of God is active and alive, sharper than
• 33:54
  any two-edged sword, cutting between
• 33:57
  soul and spirit, bone and marrow. And so
• 34:00
  I began to realize, okay, the
• 34:02
  functionality of the temple in the in
• 34:05
  the in the most holy place where the
• 34:07
  spirit of God is, where the presence of
• 34:08
  the Lord dwelt,
• 34:10
  um the ark of the covenant and all that,
• 34:12
  only the high priest could go in there
• 34:13
  once a year
• 34:14
  >> to provide sacrifice, right? And and he
• 34:16
  has to be completely clean. Mhm.
• 34:19
  >> If something is unclean that gets in
• 34:21
  there, it'll die.
• 34:24
  >> And God began to show me that's that's
• 34:25
  your spirit that's one with Christ.
• 34:28
  >> Jesus is the high priest.
• 34:29
  >> Jesus,
• 34:30
  >> he is the veil. He is the word
• 34:32
  separating soul and spirit. So that
• 34:34
  priest is sealed.
• 34:36
  >> Does that make sense?
• 34:37
  >> Right. Yeah.
• 34:38
  >> And and then I started to realize, okay,
• 34:42
  the intermediate place between heaven
• 34:44
  and earth is the mind, the will, the
• 34:46
  emotion. That is the flesh still. That's
• 34:49
  being worked out. That's where all the
• 34:52
  storehouses
• 34:54
  or the priestly duties are part of that
• 34:59
  space, right? And so, you know, um I
• 35:04
  read a a book by uh Nancy Mistler and
• 35:07
  Chuck Mistler and they did a thing on
• 35:09
  the temple and they they talked about
• 35:11
  the storehouse is how it's like the
• 35:12
  subconscious.
• 35:14
  >> Oh, yeah. like the different that's
• 35:16
  really cool.
• 35:17
  >> And so that's and so when Tobaya, an
• 35:19
  enemy,
• 35:21
  which to me is a type of demon, an
• 35:25
  unclean spirit, can get into the
• 35:26
  storehouse, hey, get into the most holy
• 35:28
  place,
• 35:28
  >> right?
• 35:29
  >> Has to be driven out. And so I'm getting
• 35:31
  now this understanding that, okay,
• 35:32
  that's
• 35:33
  >> driving out the enemies
• 35:37
  is only part of the the solution. Now
• 35:40
  what they did, the damage they did there
• 35:43
  has to be restored, right? And then the
• 35:46
  outer courts obviously is the physical
• 35:47
  body.
• 35:48
  >> So everything physical happens in in the
• 35:50
  outer court.
• 35:52
  >> So
• 35:53
  >> and you've been doing deliverance ever
• 35:54
  since.
• 35:55
  >> Ever since.
• 35:55
  >> And you've seen the fruit of it, not
• 35:57
  just in your own life, but in the people
• 35:58
  that you've ministered to, including me.
• 36:01
  >> Yep. So, I mean it people say what they
• 36:04
  want about it, but
• 36:05
  >> yeah, we have to tear down the
• 36:07
  misconceptions because the enemy has
• 36:10
  worked hard to keep information from us
• 36:15
  because the Bible says that God's people
• 36:17
  perish for a lack of knowledge.
• 36:20
  So, you know, all he can try to do
• 36:23
  because he has no power. The only power
• 36:26
  he has is has to be given by us.
• 36:30
  >> Right? Speaking of strongholds too,
• 36:32
  there's strongholds that people build in
• 36:34
  their own mind around this subject that
• 36:37
  need to be actually torn down by truth.
• 36:39
  >> 100%. And it's crazy because those
• 36:42
  strongholds sometimes are so strong that
• 36:46
  you can you can go straight to scripture
• 36:48
  and plainly describe it and and still
• 36:51
  sometimes people are just deceived.
• 36:54
  >> Yeah.
• 36:55
  And I've had people. So, it's actually
• 36:57
  really fascinating. And I love how like
• 36:59
  as the years bear on, you you recognize
• 37:02
  that everything science science tells us
• 37:05
  and everything psychology tells us are
• 37:07
  things that the Bible has like long
• 37:09
  known.
• 37:10
  >> So, it's like science is just catching
• 37:13
  up to scripture.
• 37:14
  >> And you know, your brain fascia like
• 37:16
  builds up
• 37:18
  >> strongholds for lack of a better term.
• 37:20
  >> Wow. like that it's it's stored with
• 37:23
  things get stored within the fascia of
• 37:25
  your brain that require what we would
• 37:28
  call mind renewal or like rewiring
• 37:30
  neuropathways totally
• 37:32
  >> in order to overcome
• 37:34
  >> Yeah.
• 37:34
  >> And so a lot of people and and I know
• 37:36
  this because you you know what I came
• 37:38
  from like I didn't necessarily believe
• 37:39
  in deliverance for even after I got my
• 37:42
  first deliverance I still was like I
• 37:44
  don't know.
• 37:45
  >> Um and that's what people would just
• 37:47
  tell me. They're like it's nothing more
• 37:49
  than a stronghold. It's just, you know,
• 37:51
  the whole you got a demon cast out of
• 37:53
  you thing is an illusion. It's just a
• 37:55
  stronghold. You just need mind renewal.
• 37:56
  You just need mind renewal. But I know
• 37:58
  that there's someone watching this. I
• 38:00
  know that there's people out there that
• 38:02
  are like, well, if that were true, then
• 38:06
  why aren't I better by now? Like there
• 38:08
  are people that have been walking with
• 38:09
  the Lord for 30 years like you that
• 38:12
  >> as you said, they've been crucifying the
• 38:14
  flesh. They've been in their word.
• 38:15
  They've been renewing their mind, but
• 38:16
  there's they can't. They can't. And it's
• 38:19
  because there is a demon within the soul
• 38:23
  that needs to be cast out in order for
• 38:25
  you to actually tear down the stronghold
• 38:28
  >> because you can't renew the mind of a
• 38:29
  demon.
• 38:30
  >> Nope. Nope. It's got to it's got to be
• 38:33
  it's got to be driven out.
• 38:34
  >> Um and and that's Yeah. Again, that's
• 38:37
  the biggest problem is it's it's both.
• 38:40
  They both have to be dealt with.
• 38:43
  >> You know, it's a stronghold. So,
• 38:47
  um, the Bible says that, you know, the
• 38:49
  weapons of our warfare are not carnal.
• 38:51
  They're mighty to tearing down
• 38:52
  strongholds,
• 38:54
  um, destroying arguments or any lofty
• 38:56
  thing that exalts itself above the
• 38:58
  knowledge of God. So, these lies and
• 39:02
  these thoughts that the enemy plants
• 39:05
  builds a belief.
• 39:07
  >> Wow.
• 39:07
  >> So, the belief is the is the
• 39:10
  >> the house that it's doing warfare from.
• 39:14
  It's the idol in a sense, right? It's
• 39:16
  the physical attitude, mindset, thought,
• 39:20
  belief that the enemy is working from.
• 39:23
  >> So even when you tell that thing to go,
• 39:24
  it's
• 39:25
  >> like an altar in your mind.
• 39:26
  >> It's an altar in the mind.
• 39:27
  >> Demons like to live behind as altars.
• 39:29
  >> It's 100%. So that's why even in the Old
• 39:32
  Testament, remember, we're going back to
• 39:33
  Old Testament types.
• 39:36
  >> The reason why the idol is bad is not
• 39:39
  just because it's a
• 39:40
  >> physical thing. It's because the demon
• 39:42
  inhabits it. Yeah.
• 39:44
  >> So you have to tear it down. So same
• 39:47
  thing in the mind that you know a lot of
• 39:49
  times people are trying to
• 39:53
  like this if you can imagine um you know
• 39:57
  you get born again it's like you're a
• 39:59
  house right and you're owned by bad
• 40:02
  ownership and you have squatters living
• 40:04
  in it. Christ comes along and purchases
• 40:07
  it marries you. You become one with
• 40:09
  Christ. you you rebuild this inner room,
• 40:12
  right, in that house to work from.
• 40:17
  >> Now, you got to go in and get the
• 40:20
  squatters out. Well, there's legalities
• 40:22
  with that. You have to have, you know,
• 40:25
  you got to work with the city to get
• 40:26
  legal rights to to get them out of
• 40:28
  there. Um,
• 40:30
  so you get rid of the intruders.
• 40:33
  Now, you got to fix what they've broken,
• 40:35
  right? because they're living in a room
• 40:37
  and they maybe it's just junk and crud
• 40:39
  and um so you don't just kick them out
• 40:43
  now. You got to rebuild that room,
• 40:45
  >> right?
• 40:46
  >> So that and that's part of the
• 40:47
  sanctification process. So that room
• 40:50
  could be used for God. See, in the
• 40:51
  temple, the glory of the Lord would fill
• 40:54
  the temple, right? That's and so the
• 40:57
  same idea is there's areas in our life
• 41:00
  that God wants to fill, but he can't
• 41:02
  because there's something occupying it.
• 41:05
  Right? And so as we get sanctified,
• 41:08
  drive those things out. Driving out is
• 41:10
  all through the scriptures. Drive out
• 41:12
  the Raphaim, the Nephilim, that's where
• 41:14
  demons come from. It's part of the
• 41:16
  mandate all the way through. Drive them
• 41:18
  out. Um, and again, we don't have
• 41:22
  context for this, but a second temple
• 41:25
  Jewish person, this is common knowledge.
• 41:27
  Like you didn't need they the Bible
• 41:29
  doesn't need to explain it because it's
• 41:31
  written to them,
• 41:32
  >> right?
• 41:32
  >> They already know all that.
• 41:34
  So,
• 41:35
  >> so what what you were delivered from
• 41:39
  that I because you know it wasn't just
• 41:40
  that spirit but that was like your
• 41:42
  strong man kind of.
• 41:43
  >> Yes. Strong.
• 41:44
  >> So what did it look like
• 41:46
  even now like to this day recognizing
• 41:50
  and I want to go back to that assignment
• 41:52
  thing like recognizing the stronghold
• 41:54
  that the spirit of rejection built in
• 41:55
  your mind that you have torn down and
• 41:58
  the assignment where it's kind of like I
• 42:01
  want back in
• 42:02
  >> again. They have to have legal access.
• 42:04
  Legal access happens because of sin,
• 42:08
  right? If anything that's not of faith,
• 42:11
  even the Bible says, is considered sin.
• 42:16
  >> Yeah.
• 42:16
  >> Okay. So if I decide I'm going to fall
• 42:19
  back into the pattern of just because
• 42:23
  someone is not giving me an opportunity.
• 42:28
  >> Um you know maybe they didn't pick me,
• 42:31
  they picked someone else.
• 42:34
  Now I if I'm if I am not wise and I fall
• 42:38
  back into it and I get driven by it, now
• 42:41
  I'm coming into agreement with it.
• 42:44
  And that's all I need to give access to
• 42:46
  to an enemy.
• 42:48
  >> Right. Doesn't doesn't or an open door.
• 42:50
  It doesn't mean it's automatic.
• 42:52
  >> Right. Right.
• 42:53
  >> But um but I can open a door back and
• 42:57
  and I've done it. I I'll admit, you
• 42:59
  know, um when we moved to to Nashville,
• 43:03
  I you know, it was a hard move. things
• 43:06
  were just and I wasn't really paying
• 43:09
  attention and me and Shauna were going
• 43:11
  through some stuff and
• 43:13
  and I uh yeah, I was being moved by her
• 43:17
  rejecting me and it wasn't it wasn't her
• 43:20
  really rejecting me. It was
• 43:22
  circumstantial,
• 43:23
  you know what I mean? Um, but that
• 43:26
  spirit I I know was involved in that.
• 43:29
  And
• 43:30
  yeah, I I started being moved by it,
• 43:33
  getting hurt by it, making decisions by
• 43:35
  it. Next thing you know, I'm worshiping
• 43:37
  the Lord up on the hill. Like, and it
• 43:40
  hits me. I started getting sick. I'm
• 43:43
  like, what? What's happening to me? And
• 43:45
  the Lord started showing me, you opened
• 43:46
  the door to that rejection. And I heard
• 43:49
  the Lord say, rejection. I just self-d
• 43:51
  delivered. I'm just get out. And I
• 43:54
  started going through self- deliverance.
• 43:56
  Um, and then I went and came into
• 43:58
  agreement with some some folks, you
• 44:00
  know, because I believe that you have to
• 44:01
  do that.
• 44:02
  >> Yeah.
• 44:03
  >> To repent, to confess your sins one to
• 44:05
  another and all that stuff. But but
• 44:08
  yeah, you I mean is that your question
• 44:11
  or kind of
• 44:12
  >> Well, how do you how do you recognize
• 44:14
  like when it gets to that point of like
• 44:17
  I've let something in versus this is
• 44:19
  something in my mind that just needs to
• 44:21
  be renewed
• 44:23
  >> because you have a harder time
• 44:25
  crucifying it. It goes beyond
• 44:29
  natural ability.
• 44:32
  Now you're in bondage to it. You know
• 44:33
  what I'm saying? Like there's a
• 44:34
  difference between struggling
• 44:37
  But still recognizing
• 44:39
  but you still have power to go no.
• 44:42
  >> Yeah.
• 44:43
  >> You know what I mean?
• 44:44
  >> Yeah.
• 44:44
  >> Um when you just can't help it,
• 44:48
  you know, like I had anger issues. I've
• 44:50
  been delivered from from anger and it
• 44:52
  tries to rise up in me on the freeway
• 44:53
  all the time. Um
• 44:55
  >> is that how you get here so fast?
• 44:56
  [laughter]
• 44:57
  >> No.
• 45:01
  Yeah, it does, man. and you know um
• 45:05
  it'll start to get at me
• 45:07
  and I'll have to recognize
• 45:10
  but I can do it.
• 45:11
  >> Yeah.
• 45:12
  >> You know what I mean? Because it it's
• 45:13
  almost like subconsciously even
• 45:16
  sometimes that thing is still kind of
• 45:17
  lingering and I have to be able to to
• 45:20
  shut it down.
• 45:22
  >> That's that's crucifying the flesh.
• 45:24
  >> Right. Mike Mike actually describes that
• 45:26
  same thing with drinking. Like before it
• 45:28
  was like completely like compulsive like
• 45:31
  there was no stopping it.
• 45:33
  >> Totally.
• 45:33
  >> And now he says that it's not even that
• 45:36
  he wants to drink but he can hear like
• 45:39
  he can like recognize the temptation as
• 45:41
  no longer something that's within him as
• 45:43
  like a driving force but something that
• 45:45
  will like attempt to just
• 45:48
  >> you know tempt attempt to tempt
• 45:50
  >> attempt. Yeah, that's good.
• 45:51
  >> And he he's like no I don't no like
• 45:54
  absolutely not. like it can actually
• 45:56
  shut it down and like rewire his
• 45:59
  thinking to, you know, submit to the
• 46:02
  mind of Christ instead of like the old
• 46:04
  man like this is the old way. But he
• 46:06
  couldn't do that before because there
• 46:07
  was a spirit there.
• 46:08
  >> That's right.
• 46:09
  >> Yeah.
• 46:10
  >> And that and really I mean that's the
• 46:11
  difference right there between a
• 46:13
  temptation and a bondage
• 46:15
  >> or a torment,
• 46:17
  you know,
• 46:18
  >> temptation and a torment because I like
• 46:19
  alliterations. It's good.
• 46:20
  >> Yeah. No, it's Yeah. And uh so anyway,
• 46:25
  yeah.
• 46:25
  >> Well, where does Okay, so now tell me
• 46:27
  about where human emotion comes into all
• 46:29
  of this.
• 46:30
  >> So human emotion is is a gateway to
• 46:34
  to almost everything
• 46:37
  um that's part of the human experience.
• 46:40
  >> So human emotions are are alarm systems,
• 46:45
  >> right? And if they're not pro processed
• 46:48
  properly,
• 46:50
  that's where the the problem happens.
• 46:52
  So, um, if I stepped on your foot, I'm
• 46:57
  hoping you're going to experience pain.
• 46:59
  If not, there's something wrong. You're
• 47:02
  numb. You know what I'm saying?
• 47:03
  >> Yeah.
• 47:04
  >> So, you now you have the opportunity to
• 47:07
  process it. You can either shove it,
• 47:10
  which is what we've been taught to do.
• 47:12
  >> We've been taught to shove emotions
• 47:14
  >> even in the church.
• 47:15
  >> Even in the church
• 47:16
  >> because that's they're like, "Well, you
• 47:17
  just got to crucify that."
• 47:18
  >> No. No. or I'm not going to claim that
• 47:21
  over my life.
• 47:23
  >> You know what I mean? Yet I'm a human
• 47:25
  being and God has given us these as um
• 47:30
  just gauges,
• 47:32
  you know, it's like I'll give you an
• 47:34
  example. Joy,
• 47:36
  there's eight core emotions. Um this
• 47:38
  scientifically they kind of boiled it
• 47:40
  down to eight eight core emotions. Well,
• 47:43
  they say that joy it could be one of the
• 47:46
  most dangerous ones if you don't prop
• 47:49
  properly process.
• 47:51
  Because if I overindulge in joy without
• 47:54
  processing, I'm going to become an
• 47:55
  addict.
• 47:57
  You see, you see what I'm saying? If I
• 47:59
  don't process and go, okay, well, I
• 48:03
  probably shouldn't do that because I
• 48:06
  don't have enough money and if I do
• 48:08
  that, I'm gonna and I buy that car, I'm
• 48:10
  going to become in in bondage, in debt.
• 48:12
  >> Gotcha.
• 48:14
  >> Nope. I just want more joy. I'm going to
• 48:15
  go buy that car. I have 50 bucks. Or,
• 48:17
  you know what I'm saying? Like,
• 48:18
  >> yeah.
• 48:19
  >> If you don't process it, it can become
• 48:21
  uh detrimental.
• 48:22
  >> What about like fear? As the Bible says,
• 48:25
  you know, you not been given a spirit of
• 48:27
  fear. spirit of fear.
• 48:30
  >> Fear the Lord. The fear of the Lord is
• 48:32
  the beginning of knowledge and wisdom,
• 48:34
  right? So, there's a place for fear
• 48:36
  because it's a human emotion.
• 48:38
  I ought to have reverence for the Lord.
• 48:41
  >> Like when when the Lord strikes
• 48:43
  something down with, you know, lightning
• 48:46
  and thunders,
• 48:48
  I'm in awe. There's a there's a
• 48:50
  righteous there's a righteous fear that
• 48:52
  should well up in me to process and go,
• 48:55
  whoa, God is big. Yeah, that's true.
• 48:58
  >> It's a healthy thing.
• 48:59
  >> That's true.
• 49:00
  >> Um, you know, if if you don't, and
• 49:03
  again,
• 49:05
  um, if any of these emotions are shut
• 49:08
  down,
• 49:10
  it's dangerous.
• 49:12
  You should be sad about certain things,
• 49:16
  >> but if you don't have a rightful
• 49:17
  processing of it, then it can turn to
• 49:19
  depression. And that is where the wound
• 49:22
  comes from. and and and so that can lean
• 49:25
  into sin and not faith and you know what
• 49:27
  I'm saying
• 49:28
  >> and that becomes a legal right for the
• 49:30
  enemy to have access now to the soul.
• 49:32
  >> Be angry but do not sin.
• 49:34
  >> Be angry but do not sin. Don't let the
• 49:36
  sun go down on your anger.
• 49:39
  Right.
• 49:39
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 49:40
  >> So, and and you know for anyone that
• 49:43
  that wants more information like Dr.
• 49:46
  Glenn Hill wrote a book called
• 49:48
  Connection Codes and it it transformed
• 49:50
  my understanding of uh you know
• 49:54
  processing emotions. Basically his point
• 49:57
  is we're coded since we're born
• 50:01
  >> to process emotions but we've learned to
• 50:04
  shut it down.
• 50:05
  >> Right. Yeah.
• 50:06
  >> Because we don't we just don't
• 50:08
  understand how to process. and and he
• 50:11
  says it's his big point is um intimacy
• 50:16
  doesn't happen through logistics
• 50:20
  like the way that we intimately connect
• 50:22
  is through processing the emotion.
• 50:25
  Does that does that make sense?
• 50:26
  >> Yeah. and and he has a he has a fourst
• 50:30
  step kind of way to process emotions
• 50:34
  um with another human being and and
• 50:39
  that's imperative to our relationship
• 50:41
  with God too. I started I started
• 50:43
  understanding this stuff and then I
• 50:45
  started saying well how does how does
• 50:47
  that apply to me and my kids? How does
• 50:50
  that apply to me and the Lord? um
• 50:52
  because he's generally he's helping
• 50:54
  marriages, intimacy in marriages is
• 50:57
  where this all sprung out of his
• 50:59
  research and stuff. But um but it but
• 51:02
  it's a game changer, right?
• 51:04
  >> Um
• 51:05
  >> so, you know, we're designed by God to
• 51:08
  be an intimate relationship and it and
• 51:11
  it begins with emotion and being able to
• 51:13
  process that emotion with someone.
• 51:15
  >> Do you think the unprocessed emotions
• 51:17
  are strongholds?
• 51:20
  I think the unprocessed emotions have
• 51:23
  opened the door for the strongholds
• 51:27
  >> because you build it up. That's a
• 51:29
  >> because the stronghold becomes a belief
• 51:32
  something you so we didn't process the
• 51:34
  emotion now I'm believing a lie.
• 51:37
  >> Okay.
• 51:38
  >> So for example um
• 51:41
  Dr. Glenn uses this analogy. One day he
• 51:45
  was talking about uh you know he was
• 51:48
  cleaning the house with his wife and
• 51:52
  he put the dishes away for her or he
• 51:54
  unloaded the dishwasher and she said,
• 51:57
  "Hey, thanks for unloading the
• 51:58
  dishwasher."
• 52:00
  That's not what he heard. What he heard
• 52:02
  was it's about time you did something
• 52:04
  around here.
• 52:07
  See? And he got hurt by it.
• 52:10
  Now, if he didn't process that, he
• 52:12
  wouldn't come to a logical conclusion.
• 52:14
  He's only going to just rest in that
• 52:16
  lie. But if he but if he would but if he
• 52:19
  went like this, "Ooh, that hurt."
• 52:22
  And she went, "Oh, babe." Right? There's
• 52:25
  the connection. The ooh, "What's
• 52:27
  happening with her?" Well, when you when
• 52:30
  you told me to, "Thank you for unloading
• 52:33
  the dishwasher." What I heard was I'm
• 52:34
  not doing enough around here. Oh, babe.
• 52:37
  Wow. What? Tell me more. what's
• 52:39
  happening with that? Well, I don't know.
• 52:41
  I I think maybe I I just grew up, you
• 52:43
  know, blah blah blah.
• 52:46
  Now, we're processing. And the last
• 52:48
  thing she would say is, "Oh, okay. I
• 52:49
  understand that. What do you need? I
• 52:51
  just need to know that that I'm enough.
• 52:54
  I need to know that I'm I'm doing." Of
• 52:55
  course, you're enough, babe. Like, you
• 52:57
  see what I'm saying? Like, that's
• 52:58
  processing through it. You're a little
• 53:00
  kid and you touch a hot stove
• 53:04
  and you scream, right? and and you're as
• 53:08
  a parent, you you get welled up with
• 53:09
  fear and you don't know what to do. So,
• 53:10
  you say, "Hey, GET AWAY FROM THE STOVE.
• 53:13
  WHAT ARE YOU DOING, YOU DUMMY?
• 53:15
  You're you're you're trying your best to
• 53:18
  protect them, but you're not helping
• 53:20
  them. You're you're teaching them to
• 53:23
  shut down their emotion. Does that make
• 53:25
  sense?"
• 53:26
  >> Yeah.
• 53:26
  >> Yeah. And and and so if the mom was
• 53:29
  like, "Oh, babe, what happened?"
• 53:32
  Now you're opening the door for an
• 53:34
  intimate connection to go, "Mom, I
• 53:36
  turned around and I touched the stove
• 53:38
  and and I hurt my hand and oh, I
• 53:40
  understand. Like, what do you need? I
• 53:43
  might need a band-aid. I might need a
• 53:45
  hug." You know what I'm saying? Now,
• 53:46
  there's a there's a a wonderful way to
• 53:50
  process, a healthy way to process that,
• 53:53
  and it doesn't get stuck. If it was, oh,
• 53:55
  you you dummy, stay away from the stove.
• 53:58
  That stays in there.
• 54:01
  All these unprocessed emotions actually
• 54:03
  stay there
• 54:04
  >> until they get processed.
• 54:06
  >> Yeah.
• 54:06
  >> So
• 54:07
  >> I think I even like thinking about it
• 54:09
  through the lens of like God as a father
• 54:12
  and the analogy you just used like God
• 54:15
  would never approach us with that like
• 54:19
  you're an idiot do better. You know,
• 54:22
  like he he approaches us with like
• 54:26
  I'm here
• 54:28
  like bear your soul to me, bear your
• 54:30
  heart to me. What do you need? like he
• 54:34
  he does allow us to process but then we
• 54:36
  don't meet him there
• 54:39
  >> and then we get stuck in our own stuff
• 54:42
  >> and then strongholds are built and then
• 54:44
  not only are we operating from lies that
• 54:47
  we've kind of established in our own
• 54:48
  minds
• 54:50
  >> but now also our relationship with God
• 54:52
  is skewed because we're not coming to
• 54:55
  him that way like we're not coming to
• 54:57
  sit on his lap like he's a dad and say
• 54:59
  hey
• 55:00
  >> right
• 55:00
  >> I'm really hurting right now,
• 55:02
  >> right?
• 55:03
  >> And then we build like it's like a
• 55:06
  religious thing like
• 55:07
  >> y
• 55:08
  >> I have to perform. I have to be I have
• 55:10
  to be a good daughter. I have to be a
• 55:12
  good Christian,
• 55:13
  >> right?
• 55:14
  >> I have to be good good good good.
• 55:17
  And um I just Yeah, I just don't see
• 55:19
  that.
• 55:20
  >> Well, David, you know, and I unpacked
• 55:22
  this in in one of the Psalms, there are
• 55:25
  many psalms that you can actually
• 55:28
  do what I just did. Like if you you know
• 55:31
  David was like oh Lord
• 55:33
  >> I'm in so much shame and guilt because
• 55:36
  that those are human emotions right and
• 55:39
  David will actually share his heart like
• 55:42
  that and it doesn't say it in the
• 55:44
  scripture but I can imagine God saying
• 55:46
  oh I get it I get it like tell me what's
• 55:48
  happening
• 55:50
  my sin is so great I you know I lost it
• 55:53
  here and I did this here and so horrible
• 55:57
  and whatever you know and I can imagine
• 55:59
  Imagine God saying, "Well, what do you
• 56:00
  need?" And then David would say, "Take
• 56:03
  not your Holy Spirit from me." You know
• 56:05
  what I mean?
• 56:06
  >> Like,
• 56:07
  >> he's walking this process with the Lord.
• 56:10
  That's why it says that that David's a
• 56:11
  man after God's own heart because it's
• 56:13
  in the heart. I believe the emotions,
• 56:16
  well, the brain is the soul basically,
• 56:18
  but the emotions are at the heart of the
• 56:20
  uh or the heart is is in the center of
• 56:22
  the brain,
• 56:23
  >> right?
• 56:24
  >> Which is, you know, you have the lyic
• 56:25
  system and the what is the other one?
• 56:28
  have limbic and
• 56:31
  forgot the emotional one, but it's in
• 56:33
  it's in the the center of the brain.
• 56:35
  >> You're not gonna find me like knowing
• 56:36
  these,
• 56:37
  >> but I know that the nerves are
• 56:39
  connected.
• 56:41
  >> Yeah. Um, somebody who knows brain stuff
• 56:43
  will know that, you know, that there's
• 56:45
  the the emotional part of the brain that
• 56:48
  processes the emotion and then there's
• 56:49
  the lyic system, which is all all the
• 56:52
  logic,
• 56:53
  >> cerebral cortex.
• 56:54
  >> Yeah.
• 56:54
  >> Thank you, Michael, from behind the
• 56:56
  computer.
• 56:57
  But [laughter]
• 56:59
  um but I believe that that's the heart,
• 57:02
  right? The emotion is is is the heart
• 57:05
  part. So you connect to the heart of
• 57:08
  people and you should process
• 57:11
  hearttoheart
• 57:12
  >> and that's what I love about that book
• 57:14
  is it it really shows you how to process
• 57:16
  those eight core emotions which I think
• 57:17
  is is describing a heart-to-heart
• 57:20
  relationship as opposed to a logistical
• 57:23
  right relationship. That's why you can't
• 57:26
  have a relationship with an AI.
• 57:30
  >> It's allformational logistical stuff.
• 57:32
  There's no emotion
• 57:34
  attached to it. That's why a lot of
• 57:36
  people are still lonely even in church
• 57:38
  because they they don't have the ability
• 57:41
  to process emotions one to another and
• 57:44
  then come up with logistical
• 57:46
  conclusions. Does that make sense? It's
• 57:47
  all informationational. And I don't
• 57:49
  think I I don't matter of fact I know I
• 57:51
  didn't learn how to do this as a kid
• 57:54
  >> emotionally process anything
• 57:56
  >> and [clears throat] now I'm like in my
• 57:57
  30s and I'm Hello. Um
• 58:00
  >> so sometime so I get caught up in this
• 58:03
  sometimes like I'm like and this might
• 58:06
  be a really loaded question but how do
• 58:08
  you know is this an unprocessed emotion?
• 58:12
  Is this a lie I'm believing? Or is this
• 58:14
  a demon?
• 58:17
  Well, I think it begins I think it
• 58:19
  always begins with the unprocessed
• 58:21
  emotion.
• 58:23
  He's got to gain access somewhere,
• 58:26
  >> right?
• 58:26
  >> The enemy, you mean?
• 58:28
  >> Yeah.
• 58:29
  >> So, how do you know it's you said an
• 58:32
  unprocessed emotion?
• 58:33
  >> Is this just something I just need to
• 58:34
  process? Is this something I need to
• 58:36
  renew my mind or is this something that
• 58:37
  needs to be cast out of me? Yeah, I
• 58:39
  think the
• 58:40
  >> even that can get like you get caught up
• 58:42
  in like a a I don't know like a spiral a
• 58:45
  crash out even over that question.
• 58:48
  >> I think all of them are things that need
• 58:50
  to be looked at,
• 58:52
  right? I don't I think when you're kind
• 58:55
  of examining
• 58:57
  they all should be considered. Well, how
• 59:00
  do you know? Well, if if it's demonic
• 59:02
  again, it goes to a whole different
• 59:04
  level of torment, obsession of you know
• 59:08
  what I'm saying?
• 59:09
  >> Yeah.
• 59:10
  >> Actually, when when it's a demon, um it
• 59:14
  has a voice.
• 59:16
  >> Yeah.
• 59:17
  >> You know what I mean? Are you saying
• 59:20
  uh I want to kill myself or is it saying
• 59:22
  just kill yourself?
• 59:23
  >> Yeah.
• 59:24
  >> It's important stuff to look at, too.
• 59:26
  >> Yeah. you know, if if it's just a bad
• 59:29
  mindset, you can process through it
• 59:32
  logistically and come up with truth and
• 59:36
  shut it down.
• 59:38
  And it shouldn't be that difficult. I
• 59:41
  mean, it's it's never easy to repentance
• 59:43
  is is always difficult because there's
• 59:45
  temptation, but
• 59:47
  >> you should be able to walk through that
• 59:48
  process.
• 59:50
  >> Um, and then identify where did that
• 59:52
  come in? Like what emotion did I what
• 59:55
  what emotion triggered that allowed me
• 59:57
  to believe a lie?
• 1:00:00
  See, we don't take it that that far
• 1:00:01
  back, but we should because I I really
• 1:00:04
  do think that the the soul part or the
• 1:00:06
  um the emotional part is is a gateway.
• 1:00:09
  >> Yeah, for sure. It has to be because our
• 1:00:12
  our emotions are such they are signals
• 1:00:16
  like you said, but they're really bad
• 1:00:18
  metrics of like truth. Well, and and so
• 1:00:21
  even, you know, it doesn't matter who
• 1:00:24
  did it to you either,
• 1:00:26
  >> you know, that like in relationships,
• 1:00:28
  the whole thing I just described with
• 1:00:30
  the dishwasher thing, you know, imagine
• 1:00:32
  if she got offended like I didn't mean
• 1:00:35
  it that way and I'm not, it doesn't m it
• 1:00:38
  happened or you she couldn't make him do
• 1:00:41
  it either. She couldn't make him feel
• 1:00:43
  that way. It just happened.
• 1:00:46
  Um, and so that's another thing to
• 1:00:48
  realize is that a lot of times, you
• 1:00:50
  know, emotions will trigger from from
• 1:00:52
  trauma in the past unprocessed emotions.
• 1:00:56
  And somebody's saying or doing something
• 1:00:58
  that triggers that and they don't even
• 1:01:00
  mean to do it. It's not even they
• 1:01:02
  probably didn't even say the same thing.
• 1:01:05
  >> Yeah.
• 1:01:05
  >> And it triggered.
• 1:01:07
  >> You see what I mean? And this is why
• 1:01:09
  like I think it's really important to
• 1:01:11
  acknowledge this because we obviously
• 1:01:14
  both minister deliverance and we know
• 1:01:16
  that it's a totality of the gospel, but
• 1:01:18
  healing in and of itself is a totality
• 1:01:20
  of the gospel. So it encompasses
• 1:01:22
  everything we're talking about. And what
• 1:01:24
  I what I see the more that I do
• 1:01:27
  participate in the ministry of
• 1:01:28
  deliverance is that people do get hooked
• 1:01:33
  in a sense on this like, oh, I don't
• 1:01:35
  think it worked. I need more
• 1:01:36
  deliverance. I need more deliverance. I
• 1:01:37
  just want to get free. I just want to
• 1:01:38
  get free. Like you get
• 1:01:40
  >> you're just so desperate, which
• 1:01:42
  obviously you should be. It should be a
• 1:01:44
  posture of desperation for freedom. But
• 1:01:47
  >> you get so desperate to get free from
• 1:01:49
  sometimes it's just something you
• 1:01:50
  actually have to deal with with God. And
• 1:01:52
  it's not a demon anymore. Like the
• 1:01:54
  demon's been dealt with.
• 1:01:55
  >> That's right.
• 1:01:56
  >> And so I think it it really is important
• 1:01:57
  to acknowledge this kind of stuff
• 1:01:59
  because that's how you get stuck on
• 1:02:01
  another hamster wheel. And this is
• 1:02:03
  something I see a lot. And I would say
• 1:02:05
  rightfully so in terms of critiquing the
• 1:02:08
  deliverance realm is that they're like,
• 1:02:10
  "Well, all these pastors and stuff, they
• 1:02:12
  want to they want to just get you like
• 1:02:15
  coming back for a monthly deliverance
• 1:02:17
  sort of thing." Which like isn't the
• 1:02:18
  goal. That's never my goal. I'm never
• 1:02:20
  like, "Yeah, come back in a month and
• 1:02:21
  we'll just cast whatever else comes in."
• 1:02:23
  Like that's not the goal. The goal is
• 1:02:26
  >> to
• 1:02:27
  cast it out so that now you can crucify.
• 1:02:31
  And so now that you can walk out your
• 1:02:33
  salvation with fear and trembling and
• 1:02:35
  not just be in this constant state of
• 1:02:38
  torment and bondage where there's a
• 1:02:41
  demon that's in that's in enabling
• 1:02:45
  >> the block.
• 1:02:46
  >> So it's never about
• 1:02:49
  getting on another hamster wheel of more
• 1:02:52
  works. It's about
• 1:02:54
  >> kind of opening the door for further
• 1:02:58
  healing with the Lord. It's like back in
• 1:03:00
  the day, people would come to the altar
• 1:03:02
  all the time to get born again again.
• 1:03:05
  You know what I mean?
• 1:03:06
  >> They would come down. Oh, so old Frank
• 1:03:09
  coming down to the altar again to get
• 1:03:11
  born again.
• 1:03:12
  >> Gotcha.
• 1:03:13
  >> It's it's it's the same thing with
• 1:03:14
  deliverance. And I noticed back in the
• 1:03:16
  day like I got frustrated. That's why I
• 1:03:18
  planted a church because I was like, I
• 1:03:20
  just noticed that, man. People get born
• 1:03:23
  again and they don't even know anybody
• 1:03:26
  and they just slip off into their own
• 1:03:28
  world and they fall back. So, it almost
• 1:03:31
  discouraged me from leading people to
• 1:03:33
  Christ because I would lead people to
• 1:03:34
  Christ and they would just fall away
• 1:03:36
  because they had no community. They had
• 1:03:38
  no, you know what I mean? And it's the
• 1:03:39
  same kind of thing with deliverance is,
• 1:03:41
  you know, many people are seeking the
• 1:03:43
  the quick fix, the deliverance part, and
• 1:03:45
  they don't want to commit to covenant.
• 1:03:46
  They don't want to commit to um
• 1:03:48
  community. That's how you get that's how
• 1:03:50
  you grow. People who get to know you,
• 1:03:52
  people who can
• 1:03:53
  >> kind of bring some things to light, hold
• 1:03:54
  you accountable, all that stuff.
• 1:03:56
  >> Yeah.
• 1:03:56
  >> So,
• 1:03:57
  >> and then there's discipline. Like
• 1:03:59
  there's
• 1:04:00
  >> so much discipline in this walk with
• 1:04:02
  God.
• 1:04:03
  >> Totally.
• 1:04:03
  >> That comes from him because they're just
• 1:04:05
  talking about this with someone else.
• 1:04:06
  Self-control is a fruit of the spirit,
• 1:04:08
  right?
• 1:04:08
  >> So, it's only enabled by the spirit of
• 1:04:10
  God that you have the ability to
• 1:04:13
  >> be disciplined in any capacity. It's not
• 1:04:16
  like your own strength that you're just
• 1:04:17
  like mustering up, pulling up by the
• 1:04:19
  bootstraps. I can do it. No, it's the
• 1:04:21
  self-control
• 1:04:23
  >> that he produces, but that has to be
• 1:04:26
  from rooted. Being rooted in the vine,
• 1:04:28
  which means you have to know his voice.
• 1:04:29
  You have to be in his word. You have to
• 1:04:31
  be on your face in the prayer closet.
• 1:04:32
  >> Yeah.
• 1:04:33
  >> And you do have to be in covenant
• 1:04:34
  community because he said, "I want you
• 1:04:36
  to be one." Oh, you're a part of a body,
• 1:04:38
  which means you can't just cut off an
• 1:04:40
  arm and leave it on the ground or else
• 1:04:41
  it's going to shrivel up and die. So you
• 1:04:43
  have to be operating within the body
• 1:04:45
  with him as the head. Like there's all
• 1:04:46
  these different facets.
• 1:04:48
  >> Yeah.
• 1:04:48
  >> Not that it's like a checklist or a rule
• 1:04:50
  book, but there's just a structure and
• 1:04:53
  an order because he's a god of structure
• 1:04:55
  and order. Yes.
• 1:04:56
  >> That he has laid out for us in order for
• 1:04:58
  us to like do this thing, you know?
• 1:05:00
  >> Yeah.
• 1:05:01
  >> The best way fit. And you talk about it
• 1:05:04
  all the time like a kingdom ordinance,
• 1:05:05
  like a a governance.
• 1:05:07
  >> And he's laid that out for us so that we
• 1:05:09
  can demonstrate the kingdom in more ways
• 1:05:11
  than one.
• 1:05:12
  >> Well, yeah. And it's like I think when
• 1:05:15
  it comes to the law of grace and things
• 1:05:17
  of that nature
• 1:05:19
  because remember grace there it is the
• 1:05:23
  law. It is a law but it's a higher law
• 1:05:26
  than the law of sin and death. Do right
• 1:05:27
  and wrong that kind of thing.
• 1:05:29
  >> Right?
• 1:05:30
  >> So imagine and people don't have this
• 1:05:31
  perspective is when you are born again
• 1:05:35
  you've literally become the bride of
• 1:05:37
  Christ. Like you're married to the Lord
• 1:05:38
  which is his body too.
• 1:05:41
  That's how it's played out.
• 1:05:42
  >> Yeah.
• 1:05:43
  >> And so, you know, we we don't have that
• 1:05:46
  perspective of, wait a minute, imagine
• 1:05:49
  for a minute if I'm married to Shauna.
• 1:05:54
  We didn't we didn't write this on our
• 1:05:56
  refrigerator. This is a law of this is a
• 1:05:59
  law between us
• 1:06:01
  >> that we don't have any other lovers. You
• 1:06:03
  know what I mean? Um, I have to spend
• 1:06:06
  time with my wife
• 1:06:09
  doing things she likes because we pour
• 1:06:12
  into each other. Do you know what I
• 1:06:13
  mean? That takes discipline.
• 1:06:15
  >> But, but when we're not seeing from that
• 1:06:17
  lens,
• 1:06:19
  if we're seeing from a to-do list lens
• 1:06:22
  or I have to do this right or wrong or
• 1:06:23
  God's not going to love me type of
• 1:06:25
  thing, um, that's where I think a lot of
• 1:06:28
  people get in trouble.
• 1:06:30
  >> Yeah.
• 1:06:30
  >> You know what I mean? Now you're
• 1:06:32
  operating under a religious system.
• 1:06:34
  You're putting yourself back into the
• 1:06:35
  flesh.
• 1:06:36
  >> Yeah.
• 1:06:37
  >> Which legally gives the enemy
• 1:06:39
  >> again a right and an open door to come
• 1:06:42
  back in.
• 1:06:42
  >> Yeah.
• 1:06:43
  >> So anyway, Yeah.
• 1:06:44
  >> Yeah. Well, the whole point is is just
• 1:06:46
  that you got to like you got to be
• 1:06:50
  willing to submit, lay your whole life
• 1:06:53
  down. That's what it says. Like you got
• 1:06:54
  to lay your whole life down. It's not
• 1:06:56
  >> deliverance isn't going to just make
• 1:06:58
  everything go away. Mm-m.
• 1:07:01
  >> It's going to come from the other stuff,
• 1:07:02
  too. It's going to come from the
• 1:07:03
  community. It's going to come from the
• 1:07:04
  mind renewal. It's going to come from
• 1:07:06
  the emotional processing. It's going to
• 1:07:08
  just come from everything that abounds
• 1:07:10
  from abiding in the vine, which is him.
• 1:07:13
  So, okay. How do you reconcile, you
• 1:07:15
  know, cuz I know this has come up for
• 1:07:18
  both of us, like from other people, like
• 1:07:21
  how do you reconcile the whole like
• 1:07:22
  you're a new creation thing versus
• 1:07:25
  everything we're talking about,
• 1:07:26
  something happened when you were five,
• 1:07:28
  you never processed it, now it needs to
• 1:07:29
  get processed because now you're
• 1:07:30
  believing a lie, now you have a demon.
• 1:07:33
  [laughter]
• 1:07:33
  >> Here, I'll I'll take a quote from Chuck
• 1:07:35
  Mistler back in the day. He says, "The
• 1:07:38
  real you is software.
• 1:07:41
  You
• 1:07:42
  um are a new creation. You have a new
• 1:07:45
  software. It's your hardware that's not
• 1:07:47
  new.
• 1:07:48
  >> Oh, that's good.
• 1:07:49
  >> You see what I'm saying? Yeah.
• 1:07:50
  >> You're being sanctified and that old
• 1:07:54
  hardware, right? Um the inside stuff is
• 1:07:58
  being renewed.
• 1:08:01
  Okay? So, getting rid of the viruses or
• 1:08:03
  whatever. And then your your body will
• 1:08:07
  be made new upon resurrection. So this
• 1:08:09
  old I don't know what you call it. Mike
• 1:08:11
  knows the computer terms, but the tower
• 1:08:14
  thing thingy that'll you know you're
• 1:08:18
  still using that for now, right? But
• 1:08:21
  then that will be made new as well. So
• 1:08:23
  you got a new software now. The I don't
• 1:08:26
  know what what is the processor thing.
• 1:08:28
  >> I think you're right. Software,
• 1:08:30
  hardware, and then the tower, right,
• 1:08:31
  Mike?
• 1:08:34
  >> Yeah, the housing
• 1:08:36
  >> processor.
• 1:08:37
  >> Processor. Okay. Thank you, Mike.
• 1:08:39
  >> Okay. So, [laughter]
• 1:08:42
  anyway, my computer analogies are
• 1:08:44
  flawed, but um but that's that's the
• 1:08:48
  idea, you know, the So,
• 1:08:50
  >> and it goes back to just understanding
• 1:08:52
  the distinction between soul and spirit
• 1:08:53
  really is what it is.
• 1:08:54
  >> Yeah. And and all and to be fair, when
• 1:08:56
  you're born again, all things have
• 1:08:58
  become new.
• 1:08:59
  >> Yeah.
• 1:09:00
  >> Like the way you see things is all
• 1:09:04
  changed. Your purpose is all now
• 1:09:06
  changed. it it's not saying you have a
• 1:09:08
  new body and a new soul. But that's
• 1:09:13
  coming.
• 1:09:14
  >> It's just not right now.
• 1:09:16
  >> I think we're taking it so literal
• 1:09:18
  that's like wait everything obviously
• 1:09:20
  not everything has become new
• 1:09:22
  >> because I'm still getting older.
• 1:09:24
  >> Still losing my hair,
• 1:09:25
  >> right?
• 1:09:26
  >> So
• 1:09:27
  >> yeah, but also part of the newness is
• 1:09:30
  the authority.
• 1:09:31
  >> Yeah.
• 1:09:32
  >> Which is why you can overcome any of
• 1:09:34
  this stuff.
• 1:09:36
  >> Yeah. Authority. Should we talk about
• 1:09:38
  authority?
• 1:09:39
  >> Yeah. What about it? How does authority
• 1:09:41
  play into this? Cuz it's not just like I
• 1:09:43
  don't want people to be like, well, this
• 1:09:45
  is kind of hopeless. You know, you know,
• 1:09:47
  I come to Christ and now I still got to
• 1:09:49
  struggle with all this stuff. Well, I
• 1:09:51
  don't like I don't think that the end
• 1:09:54
  goal is just like
• 1:09:57
  mindlessly, endlessly suffering and
• 1:10:00
  struggling because
• 1:10:02
  >> you are an overcomer. That's what the
• 1:10:04
  Bible says. You can do all things
• 1:10:06
  through Christ who strengthens you. You
• 1:10:08
  do have the mind of Christ. You do have
• 1:10:10
  the armor of God. Like we have all of
• 1:10:12
  these things. And again, it's because,
• 1:10:15
  as you said, the software is new. And
• 1:10:18
  it's because the software is new that
• 1:10:19
  now the hardware can operate
• 1:10:23
  as it's designed to,
• 1:10:25
  >> right?
• 1:10:25
  >> So, you're not just like going to be on
• 1:10:28
  just this endless process of of like
• 1:10:32
  misery and and doom and gloom. But I I
• 1:10:35
  think God allows, you know, these things
• 1:10:36
  to come up from our past and and the
• 1:10:39
  unprocessed emotions from childhood that
• 1:10:42
  he wants us to deal with now,
• 1:10:44
  >> right?
• 1:10:44
  >> And allowing us to see the strongholds
• 1:10:47
  that have been built up because he wants
• 1:10:50
  to heal those things because he's the
• 1:10:52
  only one that can.
• 1:10:53
  >> You're kind of being put through, you're
• 1:10:55
  supposed to be put through boot camp in
• 1:10:56
  a sense. So like authority is delegated
• 1:11:00
  responsibility
• 1:11:02
  um to steward power.
• 1:11:05
  >> Wow.
• 1:11:06
  >> Right. So it's like a cop. Well, he just
• 1:11:10
  got out of boot camp or whatever and
• 1:11:14
  he's got a badge. He's got the power,
• 1:11:17
  but he hasn't developed in his authority
• 1:11:19
  yet.
• 1:11:21
  >> Right. So
• 1:11:23
  the, you know, sergeant that's been on
• 1:11:26
  the, you know, on the squad for 25
• 1:11:28
  years, he's so developed in his uh
• 1:11:32
  understanding and responsibility of
• 1:11:34
  delegating uh that power or or
• 1:11:38
  stewarding that power, right,
• 1:11:40
  >> that comes with the law. He's going to
• 1:11:41
  go in and apprehend somebody much
• 1:11:44
  different than the guy who just gets out
• 1:11:45
  of boot camp,
• 1:11:47
  >> right?
• 1:11:48
  >> Right.
• 1:11:49
  >> Yeah. So, we have a lot of Christians
• 1:11:50
  that don't understand this process.
• 1:11:52
  That's why they're not moving in power
• 1:11:54
  and authority. They're still wrestling.
• 1:11:57
  They're still in boot camp wrestling
• 1:11:58
  with the the fake thing, which is a
• 1:12:00
  demon.
• 1:12:01
  >> Yeah.
• 1:12:02
  >> That needs to be kicked out. So, you
• 1:12:04
  could your character can be built, which
• 1:12:06
  is the belief in the mindset. I really
• 1:12:09
  do believe what God says about me, who I
• 1:12:11
  am, that I have been given authority.
• 1:12:13
  Then you begin to operate in it. And the
• 1:12:15
  more that you operate in it, the greater
• 1:12:17
  authority that you're going to you're
• 1:12:19
  going to hold.
• 1:12:20
  >> Yeah. And then that's how you heal.
• 1:12:23
  >> Yeah.
• 1:12:24
  >> What are some like practical ways for
• 1:12:26
  you that you've like enabled this sort
• 1:12:29
  of thing? Like the processing with the
• 1:12:30
  Lord? Like what does that look like?
• 1:12:33
  >> Like the emotional stuff?
• 1:12:34
  >> Yeah.
• 1:12:35
  >> I'm still working that out, man. To be
• 1:12:36
  to be frank. I just learned
• 1:12:40
  Man, I just learned this stuff
• 1:12:42
  a year and a half ago.
• 1:12:44
  I wish I would have known this a long
• 1:12:47
  time ago.
• 1:12:49
  Um, so it's an ongoing,
• 1:12:52
  you know, development. It's like
• 1:12:55
  learning a new language. It's like
• 1:12:57
  you've learned to walk this way your
• 1:12:59
  whole life. Now you're learn to walk
• 1:13:00
  this way.
• 1:13:01
  >> Well,
• 1:13:01
  >> it's it's really hard to do.
• 1:13:04
  >> Yeah.
• 1:13:05
  >> You know, to identify really what's
• 1:13:08
  happening in you like what's happening.
• 1:13:11
  put a name on it. You know what I mean?
• 1:13:14
  When you put a name on something
• 1:13:16
  >> and it's not claiming it.
• 1:13:18
  >> It's not claiming it. You're you're
• 1:13:19
  you're putting your finger on it. Wait a
• 1:13:21
  minute. That's anger. What's happening
• 1:13:24
  inside of me? What's happening with the
• 1:13:26
  anger? I just saw this dude look at me
• 1:13:29
  funny. What's happening with the anger
• 1:13:32
  right now? I can look at my what's going
• 1:13:36
  on inside of me and determine, oh man,
• 1:13:40
  do I still have some woundedness? Do I
• 1:13:43
  still have stuff to prove? Now I can
• 1:13:45
  kind of come to a conclusion. Wait a
• 1:13:47
  minute. I need to
• 1:13:48
  >> pay attention to
• 1:13:51
  and maybe highlight that I'm still
• 1:13:53
  struggling in this area of anger or
• 1:13:55
  whatever it might be because I just got
• 1:13:57
  triggered. But we're not mindful of it,
• 1:13:59
  >> right? We're not paying attention to
• 1:14:01
  whoa, what what just happened with me
• 1:14:03
  and and why?
• 1:14:04
  >> Yeah.
• 1:14:06
  >> And then come to some truth conclusion.
• 1:14:08
  >> Well, where's the line then between like
• 1:14:12
  crucifying the flesh and allowing
• 1:14:16
  ourselves to experience what you just
• 1:14:19
  described?
• 1:14:20
  >> I mean, crucifying the flesh is just
• 1:14:22
  taking authority over the flesh, right?
• 1:14:25
  So exactly what I just what I just did
• 1:14:28
  is actually crucifying the flesh because
• 1:14:30
  I'm paying attention and being aware.
• 1:14:32
  I'm not being driven just by my emotion.
• 1:14:35
  I'm actually taking it captive. Just
• 1:14:38
  like the thoughts you have to take
• 1:14:40
  captive. I'm taking the emotion captive
• 1:14:42
  and going, "Wait a minute.
• 1:14:44
  >> What's happening with that anger?"
• 1:14:46
  >> And now I have to process through it to
• 1:14:48
  find out what's happening with it so I
• 1:14:49
  can come to a logistical conclusion to
• 1:14:51
  know what to do with it.
• 1:14:52
  >> That's good. I think too it helps well
• 1:14:55
  for me because this is just something
• 1:14:57
  the way my brain has been wired is like
• 1:15:01
  compartmentalizing feelings is like good
• 1:15:03
  or bad I think is like a really bad
• 1:15:05
  place to be
• 1:15:07
  >> because then you know you you create a
• 1:15:09
  hierarchy so you naturally want to
• 1:15:10
  suppress the bad but you shouldn't
• 1:15:12
  suppress it you should process it and I
• 1:15:14
  think the better the better metric as
• 1:15:17
  far as emotion goes is like okay I feel
• 1:15:20
  this way it's not good nor bad but it is
• 1:15:23
  either true or a lie.
• 1:15:25
  >> Yeah.
• 1:15:25
  >> Because then that gives you the
• 1:15:28
  blueprint of like what do I do with
• 1:15:30
  this?
• 1:15:31
  >> That's good.
• 1:15:32
  >> Yeah.
• 1:15:33
  >> Cuz now I can submit it if it's a lie. I
• 1:15:36
  can submit it to him and replace it with
• 1:15:39
  something tr that's true. And it doesn't
• 1:15:41
  mean, for the record, I think people
• 1:15:44
  need to hear this too, is like you you
• 1:15:46
  when we say like replacing it with truth
• 1:15:49
  or submitting it to truth, it doesn't
• 1:15:51
  mean that you're going to feel that hit
• 1:15:53
  you.
• 1:15:54
  >> Like when I speak the word of God over
• 1:15:56
  me, I don't always feel goosebumps. I
• 1:15:58
  don't always feel the spirit of the Lord
• 1:15:59
  descend upon me and like I'm getting
• 1:16:02
  born again again. Like it's it doesn't
• 1:16:03
  always feel that way. But the words
• 1:16:06
  matter what you know speaking death and
• 1:16:09
  life in the power of the tongue speaking
• 1:16:11
  it out loud matters
• 1:16:12
  >> using the authority matters
• 1:16:15
  >> and just participating in the act of
• 1:16:18
  rewiring my brain.
• 1:16:19
  >> Yeah.
• 1:16:20
  >> So that one day I do feel I do feel it
• 1:16:23
  because it will register in my flesh as
• 1:16:26
  truth.
• 1:16:26
  >> Yes.
• 1:16:27
  >> But this is a practice of submitting to
• 1:16:29
  the spirit that we're talking about. It
• 1:16:31
  it is about discovering truth in every
• 1:16:34
  every area of our life. So part of that
• 1:16:38
  that processing is hey what what has
• 1:16:41
  been a lie
• 1:16:44
  or is not right. You know what I mean?
• 1:16:47
  >> Um yeah I think that's just yeah it's a
• 1:16:50
  huge part of the whole thing. Yeah. The
• 1:16:52
  demon thing is just
• 1:16:54
  >> it's like the first piece. Well, the and
• 1:16:55
  the biggest problem is is the enemy has
• 1:16:59
  taken that out because it's really step
• 1:17:01
  one.
• 1:17:02
  >> Yeah.
• 1:17:03
  >> And gets us focused on everything else.
• 1:17:04
  Well, none of that's going to work if
• 1:17:06
  you're if you miss the first step.
• 1:17:08
  >> Yeah. Right. Because psychology, we were
• 1:17:10
  just talking about this yesterday, like
• 1:17:12
  psychology as we know it like modernly,
• 1:17:15
  secularly, even in Christian circles,
• 1:17:18
  >> Yeah.
• 1:17:18
  >> does not take into account the demonic.
• 1:17:20
  M [clears throat]
• 1:17:21
  >> and then some deliverance ministries
• 1:17:24
  >> do not take into account like the
• 1:17:26
  psychological
• 1:17:28
  >> well I would say the same thing for
• 1:17:29
  inner healing too.
• 1:17:31
  >> I would say the same thing for inner
• 1:17:32
  healing like in charismatic circles and
• 1:17:34
  stuff we talk about inner healing
• 1:17:36
  >> and
• 1:17:38
  God can can heal an emotional wound no
• 1:17:41
  problem. Yeah. But working out your
• 1:17:44
  salvation part of it, healing does come
• 1:17:48
  through processing.
• 1:17:50
  >> You know what I mean? So, say he takes
• 1:17:53
  that wound away and then it happens
• 1:17:55
  again and you never learn to to really
• 1:17:57
  process through it rightfully.
• 1:18:00
  >> You see, I just think that there's I
• 1:18:02
  think we've done a disservice
• 1:18:04
  um too
• 1:18:06
  just leaning in on supernatural
• 1:18:10
  um emotional healing.
• 1:18:13
  supernatural
• 1:18:15
  emotional inner healing. Like I think
• 1:18:17
  there's value there.
• 1:18:18
  >> Yeah.
• 1:18:19
  >> But we've missed the actual human
• 1:18:23
  ability to process through the hurt and
• 1:18:25
  pain. You know what I mean?
• 1:18:27
  >> Which is how back to crucifying that's
• 1:18:30
  how you do it. Yeah,
• 1:18:32
  >> there's so many different layers to it
• 1:18:34
  and things do get just like either
• 1:18:37
  compartmentalized or dismissed
• 1:18:39
  altogether and then we miss something
• 1:18:42
  and then we think there's something
• 1:18:44
  wrong with us,
• 1:18:45
  >> right?
• 1:18:45
  >> But it's just that the the full scope
• 1:18:47
  isn't being translated.
• 1:18:50
  >> Yeah.
• 1:18:50
  >> Through teaching,
• 1:18:51
  >> right?
• 1:18:52
  >> And soo salvation is healing.
• 1:18:55
  >> Yep.
• 1:18:55
  >> Which is every part of it.
• 1:18:57
  >> That's it.
• 1:18:58
  >> Spirit, soul, and body. It's crazy.
• 1:19:00
  >> Yeah. I mean God has given us you know
• 1:19:04
  um the gospel revelation should should
• 1:19:08
  be the completion of the whole the whole
• 1:19:10
  person you know obviously the the
• 1:19:13
  fullness of of the salvation is in the
• 1:19:15
  resurrection so your body is not going
• 1:19:16
  to be made brand new but a sign of that
• 1:19:19
  is healing
• 1:19:20
  >> right um the body can can be healed but
• 1:19:24
  I do I believe that the the soul can be
• 1:19:26
  sanctified um that's that's part of the
• 1:19:29
  process Because when we talk about
• 1:19:31
  sanctification, right, working out your
• 1:19:33
  salvation,
• 1:19:36
  the spirit, I believe, has been made
• 1:19:38
  new.
• 1:19:39
  >> Yeah.
• 1:19:40
  >> So, there's not like you're rebuilding
• 1:19:41
  your spirit. No, you've been made right
• 1:19:43
  with Christ. You've been one with him.
• 1:19:46
  Um, this whole sanctifying thing is
• 1:19:48
  about renewing the mind, dealing with
• 1:19:50
  the legalities because it's still in
• 1:19:53
  this realm.
• 1:19:55
  >> Um, legal rights that the enemy's had in
• 1:19:57
  your life, all that stuff has to be
• 1:19:58
  enforced.
• 1:20:00
  you know, we don't understand that and
• 1:20:02
  it's because we don't understand the
• 1:20:03
  next level. So, we don't know to go
• 1:20:05
  after, you know, a generational curse
• 1:20:08
  that's that's been, you know, in the
• 1:20:10
  family for a long time.
• 1:20:11
  >> That's why even like the prayer on earth
• 1:20:13
  as it is in heaven. It's not talking
• 1:20:15
  about perfection. It's actually talking
• 1:20:16
  about like enforcing authority, right?
• 1:20:18
  >> That's it.
• 1:20:19
  >> So,
• 1:20:20
  >> take bringing heaven to earth. My spirit
• 1:20:22
  being born again literally means to be
• 1:20:24
  born from above.
• 1:20:26
  >> You've been born a new from above.
• 1:20:28
  >> Yeah. So that's now you're bringing
• 1:20:30
  heaven to earth and God's going to
• 1:20:32
  transform this place and and he'll
• 1:20:35
  >> he's going to complete the the work that
• 1:20:36
  he began in the garden
• 1:20:39
  right here on earth then a new heaven
• 1:20:41
  and a new earth. See we don't talk about
• 1:20:42
  that a lot either but
• 1:20:43
  >> I just had a recent revelation. I don't
• 1:20:44
  know if you've heard like the occult
• 1:20:46
  expression as above so below.
• 1:20:48
  >> Uhhuh.
• 1:20:48
  >> I just realized that's a counterfeit.
• 1:20:50
  >> It's a counterfeit.
• 1:20:51
  >> I don't know the other day that like hit
• 1:20:52
  me. I was like whoa.
• 1:20:55
  >> That's the thing. The enemy takes a
• 1:20:57
  portion of truth
• 1:20:59
  >> and then twists it. So as above so below
• 1:21:03
  is the do
• 1:21:05
  >> how does it say?
• 1:21:06
  >> It's do without thou will.
• 1:21:07
  >> Do that thou will.
• 1:21:07
  >> Yeah.
• 1:21:08
  >> That see that's where the mess up is.
• 1:21:11
  No, it's not do as you will.
• 1:21:13
  >> Do as God wills.
• 1:21:14
  >> Yeah.
• 1:21:15
  >> But yeah, as above, right? Bring let's
• 1:21:18
  bring heaven to earth,
• 1:21:20
  >> but not for our own glory. For God's
• 1:21:21
  glory and his kingdom and his plan.
• 1:21:23
  >> Exactly.
• 1:21:24
  >> Yeah. Anyway, Ola, we could talk about
• 1:21:26
  this forever. Let me just ask one more
• 1:21:28
  question. What would you say for someone
• 1:21:30
  who feels like they are
• 1:21:35
  spiritually stuck right now? Like what
• 1:21:37
  would you recommend
• 1:21:39
  they do?
• 1:21:40
  >> Spiritually stuck like
• 1:21:42
  >> like if they're feeling like if they're
• 1:21:43
  resonating with everything that we're
• 1:21:44
  talking about
• 1:21:46
  and they're trying to just discern and
• 1:21:49
  overcome it.
• 1:21:51
  Well, you know, my my first thought is
• 1:21:54
  always I really want to make sure
• 1:21:56
  somebody understands the cost of what it
• 1:21:58
  means to be born again. Make sure that
• 1:22:00
  they're they actually are properly
• 1:22:01
  waterbaptized and understand
• 1:22:04
  >> what that means. So many people have
• 1:22:06
  been walking with the Lord. They they
• 1:22:07
  say grew up in church or whatever the
• 1:22:10
  case may may be.
• 1:22:12
  >> They don't even understand the power or
• 1:22:14
  the authority that comes with water
• 1:22:16
  baptism. It's not just a sign of your
• 1:22:17
  faith. You know what I mean? There's
• 1:22:19
  there's much more depth to it. Um
• 1:22:23
  actually the act itself of dying to
• 1:22:26
  yourself, rising from the dead through
• 1:22:27
  the waters of baptism.
• 1:22:29
  >> Yeah.
• 1:22:29
  >> Is more tied to the conscience and the
• 1:22:32
  soul than we understand.
• 1:22:33
  >> We have a whole video about that.
• 1:22:34
  >> We have a whole video about that. Please
• 1:22:35
  go watch it.
• 1:22:36
  >> But people need they need to really
• 1:22:37
  grapple with that and make sure that
• 1:22:39
  that's secure. The next thing is the the
• 1:22:42
  next step is let's identify
• 1:22:45
  every barrier that came with your past.
• 1:22:48
  every sinful pattern, every, you know,
• 1:22:50
  um, whether it's generational, where it
• 1:22:52
  comes from, it could have been a soul
• 1:22:53
  tie, whatever the case is, let's
• 1:22:56
  identify that. If there's a spirit
• 1:22:58
  there, then we need to kick it out. We
• 1:23:00
  need to renounce it, come out of
• 1:23:01
  agreement with that, kick it out, and
• 1:23:03
  then have a game plan to tear down the
• 1:23:06
  stronghold because that's what takes
• 1:23:08
  time.
• 1:23:08
  >> Yeah.
• 1:23:09
  >> To rebuild that stronghold. It's like
• 1:23:11
  again, it's a it's a it's like a fort.
• 1:23:13
  >> Yeah.
• 1:23:14
  >> That had to literally torn down.
• 1:23:15
  >> There are heavenly strongholds. I think
• 1:23:18
  it says in Psalms, right? Like the Lord
• 1:23:19
  is my strong tower. Yes. That you like
• 1:23:21
  run into. Yes.
• 1:23:23
  >> So you Yeah. You literally rebuild it in
• 1:23:25
  your mind. Truth
• 1:23:26
  >> which is replacing it wi with truth. Not
• 1:23:29
  just truth. Like we got to understand
• 1:23:32
  >> there's logos and there's Rama, right?
• 1:23:35
  The logos is the written word.
• 1:23:37
  >> Um unchangeable word of God. The Rama,
• 1:23:41
  God takes that truth and speaks it into
• 1:23:43
  you personally.
• 1:23:44
  >> It's a word for right now.
• 1:23:46
  So many people I think need to know
• 1:23:49
  their Bible. We and that's the bummer
• 1:23:53
  about nowadays is we need to be teaching
• 1:23:54
  people context. We need to teach people
• 1:23:57
  the the foundational story of Genesis to
• 1:24:00
  Revelation. That's the gospel's weave
• 1:24:03
  woven through Genesis to Revelation. If
• 1:24:05
  you if people don't understand Genesis
• 1:24:08
  3, 6, and 11, I think they're lost on
• 1:24:10
  the whole thing. They're just going to
• 1:24:12
  pull things out of context. You know
• 1:24:14
  what I'm saying? So, we need to get back
• 1:24:16
  to really teaching people to know their
• 1:24:19
  Bible, to study the word of God. Um, as
• 1:24:23
  you get sensitive, I hear people all the
• 1:24:25
  time, they just get born again and
• 1:24:26
  they're like, "Oh, the Holy Spirit's
• 1:24:27
  telling me this."
• 1:24:29
  They can't even quote one scripture.
• 1:24:32
  Like the Holy Spirit, how you get
• 1:24:33
  sensitive to the leading and guiding of
• 1:24:35
  the voice of the Holy Spirit is through
• 1:24:37
  the word of God. It's through reading
• 1:24:39
  and then all of a sudden, boom, the Holy
• 1:24:40
  Spirit highlights something in the
• 1:24:42
  scripture. Now you're becoming familiar
• 1:24:44
  with how the Holy Spirit speaks.
• 1:24:45
  >> Yeah.
• 1:24:47
  >> Amen.
• 1:24:48
  >> I'm get fired up now.
• 1:24:51
  >> That's a whole other conversation. The
• 1:24:53
  God told me thing.
• 1:24:54
  >> Um Okay. Well, thank you for doing this.
• 1:24:57
  This was wonderful. And I would say too,
• 1:25:00
  if you're not getting discipled, get
• 1:25:01
  discipled because you've changed my life
• 1:25:04
  with just discipling me.
• 1:25:06
  >> We have to make him cry before the video
• 1:25:07
  ends. Mike,
• 1:25:08
  >> I'm not going to cry.
• 1:25:09
  >> Stop it, Mike.
• 1:25:11
  We're not
• 1:25:12
  >> But yeah, and because people do feel I
• 1:25:15
  know they feel lonely. They feel like
• 1:25:17
  I'm not getting
• 1:25:18
  >> everything they just talked about the
• 1:25:19
  last hour. I'm not getting that in my
• 1:25:20
  church. But if you I promise you if you
• 1:25:23
  start praying for it, God will deliver
• 1:25:25
  it because it's actually his will for
• 1:25:26
  you to be discipled and to be covered
• 1:25:29
  and to be walked with.
• 1:25:31
  >> Yeah.
• 1:25:31
  >> So,
• 1:25:32
  >> well, and again, that's the heart behind
• 1:25:34
  why we even started a Soul Shaker
• 1:25:36
  community.
• 1:25:37
  >> Yeah. Um it's it's just an attempt to
• 1:25:40
  help people in that. I mean, we have
• 1:25:42
  people that just haven't found a church
• 1:25:44
  yet.
• 1:25:44
  >> Yeah.
• 1:25:45
  >> I'm not advocating don't find a church.
• 1:25:46
  Find a church. But man, you can go to
• 1:25:49
  church and still be part of a community
• 1:25:51
  that's teaching the power of the gospel.
• 1:25:53
  So, I would encourage people again, you
• 1:25:55
  know, jump in the community.
• 1:25:57
  >> Yeah. So, where can people find that?
• 1:25:58
  Well, I mean, we'll drop a link down
• 1:26:00
  below, but just give like a brief like
• 1:26:01
  twominut rundown. What is the Soulshaker
• 1:26:03
  community and why they should get
• 1:26:06
  involved? So, oh gosh, how can I
• 1:26:08
  nutshell this [laughter]
• 1:26:10
  again? I feel like the Lord has given me
• 1:26:12
  this mandate in these latter years of my
• 1:26:14
  life. Latter years, thank you. Um, you
• 1:26:18
  know, to really defend and proclaim the
• 1:26:21
  fullness of the gospel.
• 1:26:24
  Also to build covenant community because
• 1:26:25
  they work uh together actually and to
• 1:26:30
  restore the office of evangelist
• 1:26:32
  >> I think has been one of the biggest
• 1:26:34
  problems. And so I think you know the
• 1:26:37
  whole thing with the community was based
• 1:26:39
  around those three things. Um it's the
• 1:26:42
  starting place
• 1:26:44
  and if you can just get involved in the
• 1:26:46
  starting place that'll help launch you
• 1:26:48
  into
• 1:26:49
  >> Yeah.
• 1:26:50
  >> you know your church and because
• 1:26:54
  Yeah. I mean,
• 1:26:56
  um, the whole thing was centered around
• 1:26:59
  teaching people the power of the gospel,
• 1:27:03
  how to articulate it and how to
• 1:27:04
  demonstrate it. That's the job of an
• 1:27:06
  evangelist really. The evangelist wasn't
• 1:27:09
  the guy that was supposed to be leading
• 1:27:10
  all the people to Christ. The Bible's
• 1:27:12
  very clear. The evangelist, just like
• 1:27:14
  the apostle, prophet, pastor, or
• 1:27:16
  teacher, is given for the equipping of
• 1:27:18
  the church.
• 1:27:19
  >> So, that's all we're doing is we're
• 1:27:20
  equipping people in the power of the
• 1:27:21
  gospel. deliverance is just part of
• 1:27:22
  that,
• 1:27:23
  >> right?
• 1:27:24
  >> It's not a side ministry. It's a it's a
• 1:27:26
  part of the the um the power of the
• 1:27:29
  gospel that people just have to learn
• 1:27:31
  and in that people that's what the
• 1:27:34
  community is built around. Does that
• 1:27:35
  make sense?
• 1:27:36
  >> Yeah.
• 1:27:36
  >> So, it's it's fun because it's we're not
• 1:27:40
  centering centering community around
• 1:27:43
  mountain biking, which is fine, but
• 1:27:45
  we're we're centering uh community
• 1:27:48
  around the power of the gospel. And so
• 1:27:51
  testimonies, people getting free, all
• 1:27:52
  that stuff is is a big part of it. So,
• 1:27:54
  but um just tjonald.co.
• 1:27:57
  >> Yeah,
• 1:27:58
  >> that's it. I have all the stuff there.
• 1:28:00
  But
• 1:28:00
  >> and you have to you have to let everyone
• 1:28:02
  know when you join that you came from
• 1:28:03
  heaven and healing.
• 1:28:05
  >> Everybody does anyways
• 1:28:06
  >> cuz TJ owes me a steak dinner per per
• 1:28:09
  recruit.
• 1:28:09
  >> Yeah, [laughter] right.
• 1:28:12
  Uh
• 1:28:12
  >> honestly that's been the greatest joy
• 1:28:15
  honestly to when we first met and you
• 1:28:18
  know I seen what you were doing in your
• 1:28:19
  platform and I was like man what a great
• 1:28:22
  thing to fulfill what you're doing to
• 1:28:24
  actually take those people
• 1:28:27
  and pour into them and and get them
• 1:28:29
  delivered and and so it really is an
• 1:28:31
  extension of what you've done and so I'm
• 1:28:35
  super honored. I know it's going beyond
• 1:28:37
  that, but I will forever be grateful and
• 1:28:40
  say, "No,
• 1:28:41
  >> this is a work God did through heaven
• 1:28:43
  and healing came from the tail end of
• 1:28:46
  people just funneling into that and
• 1:28:48
  looking for somewhere to get delivered
• 1:28:50
  or to connect." And so,
• 1:28:52
  >> yeah,
• 1:28:53
  >> I I'm Yeah.
• 1:28:54
  >> Yeah. feels good for me too because it's
• 1:28:56
  good to
• 1:28:58
  >> again we're talking about order and
• 1:28:59
  structure and all these things and for
• 1:29:01
  people that
• 1:29:03
  >> really do feel led by the Lord to like
• 1:29:06
  join that it's like
• 1:29:08
  >> it cuz I you know for them to witness
• 1:29:12
  the my covering which is you
• 1:29:14
  >> I just think that's important for people
• 1:29:16
  that like watch me to
• 1:29:18
  >> totally
• 1:29:19
  >> have a witness of that too just you know
• 1:29:21
  for my own
• 1:29:23
  >> I don't know what the word is like
• 1:29:25
  credibility I guess.
• 1:29:27
  >> Yes. But and it's
• 1:29:28
  >> because I don't just want to be like
• 1:29:29
  floating around on the internet like hey
• 1:29:31
  >> totally because there's a lot of people
• 1:29:32
  that are doing that you know
• 1:29:34
  >> right
• 1:29:34
  >> and you're you're not you have the
• 1:29:37
  completion of what God's
• 1:29:40
  >> mandated you to do. You you've been
• 1:29:41
  called as a voice to a generation
• 1:29:44
  >> um a teaching evangelist exposing
• 1:29:47
  >> you know the powers of darkness. It's
• 1:29:49
  like that's a big deal, but it, you
• 1:29:52
  know, it's not um again to to be able to
• 1:29:57
  have that platform and do that and not
• 1:30:00
  fulfill it in making disciples would
• 1:30:02
  would be tragic and and God's done that,
• 1:30:05
  >> right? So,
• 1:30:05
  >> Amen.
• 1:30:06
  >> And I get I get the benefit of loving
• 1:30:08
  you guys and being in your life and
• 1:30:10
  >> Yeah. Well, we love you so much. Yeah.
• 1:30:12
  Thank you for coming on today.
• 1:30:14
  >> Okay. Love you. Let us know in the
• 1:30:15
  comments what you thought of this video.
• 1:30:17
  And you can go ahead and join the Soul
• 1:30:19
  Shaker community down below in the
• 1:30:20
  episode description. I'll see you all
• 1:30:22
  next time.