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Bonus Patreon Release: Dead-Ringer! With Karen Charm and Steve Duda! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grey Milk and Lane Patreon channel where we get to take off to overlooked characters and shine a little light on some characters that perhaps have some significant potential or maybe not will be deciding that about this particular character.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It is gimmick villain month on the show.
0:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Hope you've been enjoying the ridiculous villains that we've been covering from Lady Stiltman.
0:22
[SPEAKER_01]: to the walrus.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Today we are here to talk about the perfect gimmick villain because he's a gimmick villain who impersonates other gimmick villains and also maybe is gay and also is maybe necrophiliaic.
0:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be talking about the dead ringer today who is a obscure mutant you've probably never heard of but kind of a fantastic character.
0:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very excited to have two of my friends and two real-life friends, Steve Duda and Karen Charm.
0:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me have you both introduce yourselves with your names and pronouns.
0:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And let me hear your thoughts on Greenwald's Captain America as my intro question.
0:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Tana.
0:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very nice to be back.
0:59
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the moment we've all been waiting for.
1:01
[SPEAKER_02]: This is makes the weight of all the more worth it.
1:05
[SPEAKER_02]: to talk about surprisingly not a phone-based character so a little bit of a disappointment there but you know what the story is made up for it.
1:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Karen Charm, Karen Chat, K-Chap, so you can all find me under those places.
1:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Charm Gardens is where I'm on social media, they then pronoun.
1:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Greenwalls, a cap.
1:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I know many people are big fans of this and it's Steve is a very big fan of this and I feel like there have been moments of this run that I'm like generally aware of and like maybe some issues I've read here are there but not really
1:51
[SPEAKER_02]: When, at the time of its publication, I remember reading it, it gets to like 1995 and like giant man shows up and he's in that costume with the shoulder band allures and I'm like, this is like countdown to onslaught and I know that Captain America did not look like this, but then anyway, it was like a lot of interesting stuff.
2:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I had some fun little rabbit holes they went down, then I'll be able to talk about more as we go on.
2:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited to have you here.
2:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We were everyone is going to do like a phone theme.
2:21
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a character named the phone ranger, but there's also a couple of villains named the ringers, but after doing the research just for this character, I'm like, oh, this is plenty to talk about, just this guy on their own.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, if someone were to look at you and say, you are a dead ringer for, do you get any comparisons?
2:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Who do you look like?
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: This is dangerous, darkness is full territory, I don't really know, I'm trying to think of something that wouldn't be self-deprecating.
2:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say that I am haunted from the time I was walking around my neighborhood and somebody was like, Oh, shit, Benjamin Franklin!
3:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, um, hello, it's me Steve Duda.
3:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I use they and them pronouns.
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I have been on this show like 12 times talking about how much I love this round of Captain America.
3:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
3:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just good.
3:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, X-Men listeners out there.
3:27
[SPEAKER_00]: If you talk all the time about the Clairemon uncanny, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.
3:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a 10 year run of soap operatic.
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: layered and overlapping storytelling that comes back to different points and circles around and is absolutely chock full of that civilian secondary character action that we all love.
3:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And who are you a dead-ringer for?
3:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
3:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I like I genuinely don't know.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I think when I was a young teen, there was something to the fact that I did look quite a lot like a young Anthony Kitas, but I'm not really fond of that comparison.
3:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I don't know.
4:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You tell me who do I look like story.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I use he him pronouns.
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I when I was in high school my high school band took a trip to Hawaii We had to save up like four years to go on this trip and when I was a senior We went to Hawaii and we like played some concerts epic vacation, you know for like high schoolers, of course While I was there I bought gifts for my family and this is gonna sound like a little gay kid But I swear I wasn't thinking like this
4:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I bought my older sister a shirtless man of the month calendar and then I took it home to her and she opened it up and like the shirtless guy in the swimsuit that was posing for the month of like November looked just fucking like me like the exact same face and she's like a
4:42
[SPEAKER_01]: did my brother buy me a calendar because the guy looks like him and I was like, oh, that's probably my biggest dead ringer moment.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But occasionally people will say I look like Derek Huff, which is an interesting comparison.
4:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't see, but platterig, I'll take it.
4:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm so happy to have you both here.
5:01
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna jump into the deep end with this character in a really fun storyline called Fighting Chants, and Steve has brought us a little summary of Fighting Chants to begin.
5:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Mark Greenwald was writing cap for a long time.
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: This is nearing the end of his run.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He was starting to have some health issues.
5:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He and his wife Kat, who I had on the show, had taken in her niece for a period of time.
5:26
[SPEAKER_01]: frailty, and his super soldier serum is wearing out.
5:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And Gruenwald died shortly after this from a heart attack.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's hard to know exactly how much of his own mortality he might have been putting into this character.
5:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But some really interesting storylines in caps like Iron Man, battle suit, armor era, but the battle suit is just like giant captain America suit.
5:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So he looks like a really thick football player.
5:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of looks like strong guy.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: If strong guy's powers were like a mech suit painted like the stars and stripes.
5:54
[SPEAKER_00]: half the century after World War II, the super soldier serum has lost its potency, and so has the idea of the American super soldier.
6:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It may have even become toxic in the veins of the man who once embodied it, but the symbol of fighting America fights on, and so he and America inch closer to total paralysis.
6:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to be the voice-over guy in a world, not all of it.
6:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I never done anything polite in doing the voice-over narrator in like the style of
6:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, who hasn't, like that Ikki flu's going around everywhere this winter?
6:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We're recording this in Jed, you were everyone for a March release, so that's where, uh, what's where we're all at?
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I want to spend a moment before we jump in, you two are real-life friends, which I was delighted to learn recently when Steve was visiting Salt Lake City.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I adore Karen, I have Karen's art on my wall, I love seeing Karen at cons, but then I learned you guys were friends.
6:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me a little about this friendship.
6:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I love Karen, I don't really, I don't know how to say that.
6:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're weird at like, we're on the same call, but like, Karen is the person that I text, like, uh, I want to say once a week whenever comics come out to talk about the comics, but it's really like every night.
7:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, just what am I, what am I, what am I to be people, what am I best friends?
7:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I love to talk about comics and art in movies and life with Karen.
7:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of guessing you guys can tell me what you're going to do.
7:09
[SPEAKER_02]: First.
7:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I guess.
7:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I think to the rest of my understanding, I probably heard Steve first on Acts of Word, and then it was like, okay, this is like sort of like a pre-vetted group of people.
7:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, after a point, I remember anyway.
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But David's always
7:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Great, and fun.
7:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I guess, yeah, it's like a Twitter thing.
7:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when everybody left Twitter, um, it was kind of like, yes, these kind of the one person I can trust to like share comic opinions with like.
7:40
[SPEAKER_01]: as they happen just because like we align for the most part and even if we don't we can like like okay yeah that's interesting or like give recommendations and yeah we got to meet up in Chicago like two years ago think was the first time and Steven I've been friends on the show for a long time meeting last summer it's always such a wonderful thing to like see someone in person and realize that the friendship is where it should have been all along right like it's like you just are picking up where you left off even though you've never met
8:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, I would love to spend more time with you.
8:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I get to see you at cons and there's always hugs, but there's always busy going on because you're a very talented artist, my friend, and people swarm of your table for all kinds of reasons.
8:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're going to talk about dead ringer.
8:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, Merceren Wald was at a particular point uh, stopped creating any new villains.
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he would only use
8:30
[SPEAKER_01]: previously established villains because there was a wide lexicon of villains to pull from.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you read a lot of his work, it's kind of like what Ryan North did in like squirrel girl or there's other titles where this happens, where they'll dust off some old villains instead of giving you new ones.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that was obviously after the serpent society where they're like a couple of doesn't snake-cleamed villains created and tossed your way.
8:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're in the fighting chance era.
8:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And anytime you have a rounded like a quarter hundred anniversary, they have like some sort of giant thing.
8:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So Captain America, number 425 is in March 1994.
9:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We have fighting chance part one called the Super Patriot Games.
9:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, uh, there's many variations on Captain America, and one of Grunwald's most famous storylines was the time when Captain America, well, one of the times when Captain America stopped being Captain America, and they appointed John Walker to become the new one.
9:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, John Walker had previously dressed like a character named Super Patriot.
9:28
[SPEAKER_01]: He had his little buddies that were named Left Winger and Right Winger, and they all were amped up like costumed wrestling villains, who were doing big crazy things.
9:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Super Patriot also had a character sidekick named Bucky, who was a black man, also Super Powered Ressler, and Grunwald at a certain point realized, oh, having a black character named Bucky is actually super racist.
9:50
[SPEAKER_01]: He learned it from a coworker.
9:51
[SPEAKER_01]: and then worked it into the story where Lamar Hoskins the character is like, oh, I didn't, I'd never heard that word before.
9:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So he changed his name to Battlestar, John Walker ends up becoming the U.S. agent, and now the super patriot name is up for grabs.
10:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, the big reveal on this character is not that exciting at the end, but super patriotic character that we have seen before will get there in a little while.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And then for this particular story, where Captain America is reckoning with his own life expectancy, Grunwald did create a new character, which he was avoiding doing.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's a mutant who can turn into dead supervillains.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a fun way for Greenwall to bring in a lot of old characters that are dead.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd find them in like the Marvel handbook of the dead and the lost or whatever that read at the very end of that original run,
10:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, his superpower, we're gonna get to the spoiler right away and talk about this first.
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: This mutant superpower is if he's touching the dead tissue of another person, he can assume that person's likeness.
10:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So like if he was, you know, if he got Uncle Ben's like finger from his corpse or something, he can carry it around and like turn to Uncle Ben, but only when he's touching the finger, otherwise the power wears off for a while.
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know how like mystique can shape change and her skin will turn into like glasses and and like clothing and she can like take a coat off, but still shape change, but that coat was part of her skin and then it changed for it.
11:16
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some weird things about like gene warming and like shapeshifting that are always odd.
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy can bend reality like a little bit somehow or like he summons the tech that was also associated with that person.
11:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
11:29
[SPEAKER_01]: If Iron Man died and he has Iron Man's finger, he's not just going to turn into Tony Stark, he's going to turn into a fully armored version of Iron Man for a period of time until the power wears off.
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about this mutant power for a minute.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: The way it works is weird and we'll get to the revelations of how it works for this character.
11:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the gimmick we're working on.
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So his name is Dead Ringer, so he looks like someone, but also the word Dead is right in the name, but here from Steve, and then Karen on how disgusting this power is.
11:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're how cool.
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say that Dead Ringer's ability to mimic clothes does like a ton of heavy lifting.
12:07
[SPEAKER_00]: He like he at one point he gives his back star and he's like yeah, I started digging up powered people So I could have powers, but it's like he just dug up a bunch of people with like super suits Like maybe one of the people that I cover in this actually has super power since dead off like a suit They wear I don't know.
12:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's interesting because he's got a dig up dead bodies and touch them and turn into these Corpse is in order to get their suits when it might have just been easier to steal the weapons after they die.
12:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
12:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gross though.
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This really gross
12:35
[SPEAKER_02]: texting Steve as I was reading it and they came a moment and it was like oh they're all dead because I was still thinking it was like a phone-based character and then it was like oh dead red ringer I get it and it's like halfway through the first issue we read but also I was thinking when I was in the like phone theme though and I was like oh I should bring up dial H for SQ dial H U S K from like the amalgam and I was like oh no wait never mind but actually the power of
13:04
[SPEAKER_02]: dramatically can do whatever the other hero can do.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there's a there's a DC character called dial H for hero that I actually know very little about and then during the amalgam event where marvellous DC combined there's dial H S you it's a husk gets combined with this character like page got three and there's dial husk Karen do you want to talk about dial husk at all?
13:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I only read it a couple of times.
13:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I got the issue fairly recently, so I don't have like a ton of stuff.
13:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just page Guthrie Husk is one of my favorite characters.
13:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I've talked at length about her in many places.
13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, kind of like I'm very glad that I'm now going to happen at a time when people were using her.
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh well.
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Her powers, uh, yeah, by turning the letters on her dial to spell husk, she can painlessly shed her skin and transform into a different hero with both new superpowers and a new personality.
13:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've seen her do wonderd girl who is Wonderman, mixed with Troia, a Polaris, who's Polaris, mixed with Dr. Polaris.
14:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Mary Marvel girl who's Marvel girl combined with Mary Marvel, and art to misty night, which is misty night combined with Requiem, truly wild choices.
14:12
[SPEAKER_01]: The Amalgam universe is its own bizarre place.
14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd like to go look those up.
14:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the other big reveal will just toss out.
14:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Super Patriot is unmasked at the end of this storyline to be a character named Michael Farrell.
14:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Michael Farrell debuted in a Chris Claremont comic from 1979 in Captain American number 237.
14:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a very short-lived character.
14:34
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a firefighter.
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: He's briefly associated with Bernadette Rosenthall, who is Captain America's long-term girlfriend before Diamondback.
14:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So now, Cap is dying, and this old character is back for whatever reason as the new super Patriot.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I weaving together the continuity well enough Steve?
14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Does everybody have what they need to move forward?
14:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: The end of this really caught me by surprise because of the red herring and the weight of like 10 issues
15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: at the time I felt like kind of like I was like hey they know it's not him but you know whatever I got over it Steve super suit soldier serum is wearing off and he's dying and he has a big mech suit that's truly all you need diamond back worry about Bernie Rose and Paul is around there's a whole cast characters if you're listening to this please don't worry about Mike Farrell just just
15:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Except he's Debringer's boyfriend, we're going to talk about it.
15:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this is Mark Greenwald and Dave Hoover, big giant blocky nineties art and it's crazy.
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Mike Farrell had some traumas and then like wanted to put himself out in the world as a superhero and had the tinker design him as own like Captain America suit and shield and now he's super patriot and he's announcing himself to the world and he's buying drinks for friends at a bar
15:50
[SPEAKER_01]: and he's taking a gorgeous blonde out to a swanky restaurant.
15:53
[SPEAKER_01]: He gets a lot of the focus here.
15:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But while he's in this public bar, as a Captain America look alike, he gets attacked by our old friend, the porcupine, and we're going to pause at each villain to talk about them very briefly.
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, do you want to tell us about the porcupine?
16:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm certainly do.
16:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So the porcupine, Alexander Gentry, really great done hexesine, like the, well, this original like artist, he was a antman villain from Tales to Estana, especially as a big, spiky porcupine battle suit that they sort of like made a bit more extreme as time went on, like a bit more slim.
16:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what we see here.
16:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I as the X-Men lover that I am, know him mostly as being a part of Katna Faria's gang when he brought the X-Men the first time and then shows up at sort of a flashback later on after like a Katna Faria has a second round.
16:48
[SPEAKER_02]: He's basically got just this big suit that he can shoot spines out of and has gas
16:53
[SPEAKER_02]: that he sprays you with and he dies because he's fighting.
16:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's diamond back and he falls on one of his own spikes.
17:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He trips and falls on his own quill.
17:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I do have a porcupine patreon episode out there on the main channel from like way back.
17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of my first ones.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So go back and listen to learn all about this character.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So the porcupine is dead and gone.
17:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Not also this is also not spider woman's future boyfriend the porcupine.
17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a different character Roger Gawke.
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're looking like the original Porcupine.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So Porcupine attacks.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, there you are, Captain.
17:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, at last I will have my revenge and the blonde with Super Patriot goes, and then Porcupine fires quills at all the people in the high society.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He hits the rich Rudolph Bradley and his wife, and he's yelling things like, Hardy, Har, Har, Star, Spangled Banana.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Greenwell has some really chunky cornite corny ass lines in his root of comics, but it's fun.
17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: A super patriot gets to y'all things like politics and wildlife, don't mix, porker, now chill those quills and porcupine yells back.
17:59
[SPEAKER_01]: All I need to do is connect with one shot and my poison quills will lay out.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: All you need is a powder, your ugly kisser, your super patriot.
18:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So the next day, the real Captain America is now addressing this situation at a press conference that Avengers mansion.
18:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He gets attacked by illusions of some more dead foes.
18:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The original masters of evil team is here, all of the dead ones.
18:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So the executioner, Baron Heinrich Zemo, the original Black Knight Nathan Garrett, and Melter.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's really another dead villain who's projecting the images.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And this guy's name is Mirage.
18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And you will remember his costume.
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I will tell you that, but just do you tell us about Mirage?
18:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll start with this costume, which is he looks to me, like if you had an asylum film snock off of the mirror master, this kind of like his old deal from DC Comics.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got like a weird thing on his head.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I don't get it with these illusion guys.
18:55
[SPEAKER_00]: These illusion guys always have to have something on their ears.
19:00
[SPEAKER_00]: shocker as like electrical safety suit, and then he's got two big two big lobes Yeah, they're handles, right?
19:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you, Karen He's like the poor man's Mysterio.
19:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah, he's like the Mysterio beneath Mysterio's boot.
19:16
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a guy who spider-man takes out in his first appearance by dropping a gigantic chandelier on his back like
19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: absolutely could have killed him.
19:23
[SPEAKER_00]: That's really all there is to him though.
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a very funny character.
19:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So this guy was killed by the scourge of the underworld during that big bar with no name, Massacre.
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe that's where he died.
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that?
19:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there are a lot of, a lot of my guys are scourge victims.
19:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't stay.
19:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Later, he later gets resurrected by the hood via Dormam who, so there is a mirage running around the Marvel Universe again.
19:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Mirage is attacking only cap can see the illusions of the original masters of evil and the Avengers are like what the hell is happening because there's just this image of him like punching air like he's going crazy.
19:58
[SPEAKER_01]: But now the super patriot is here and he knocks Mirage unconscious so it's the dead ringer getting knocked out.
20:05
[SPEAKER_01]: and Cap accuses Super Patriot and the knocked-out Super villain of like being in on this together.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you guys are doing all this on purpose, but then once the dead-ringer gets captured, he turns into the Purple Man, who was dead at the time.
20:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Purple Man is Zebedaya Kiligrae, of the guy with Purple Skin, who's like that Super Rapey mind-controlly villain from like the Jessica Jones Netflix series.
20:31
[SPEAKER_01]: if you've seen it and he ends up just ordering the black widow to let him go because now he has mine control powers so we've seen one character turn into the guy with the poison gas quills and then like the holographic projecting illusions and now the like very deadly purple man mind control powers yeah I still think it I don't know if I figured out what the deal with the dead ringer yet was I was
20:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It was very much like the whole setup is like black widow is gonna take in Mirage and everybody's like are you sure You don't want me to do that and she's like I can do it.
21:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm capable and then the next panel Are you like turn the page and just like I don't know what happened.
21:10
[SPEAKER_02]: He got away and it's like what is going on?
21:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like he turned into purple man.
21:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like
21:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wait.
21:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I think now I'm starting.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a creep shifter.
21:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember in the 90s reading comics, like let's say Excalibur, where Megan was one of the featured characters and people would write in fan letters and be like, why doesn't Megan just turn into Magneto and destroy everyone if she can mimic their powers, like it's the ultimate, like, I don't know.
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And
21:36
[SPEAKER_01]: that's not an entertaining story, but that ringer's kind of that guy.
21:39
[SPEAKER_01]: He can give you like dead professor ex.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy, and we'll get there later, but I thoughts of this man like getting access to all the dead bodies on cracoa during the resurrection protocols and think just having unlimited genetic material for like a mega mutants is a really scary idea for this character.
21:56
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like sure I could be a purple man all of the time, but who doesn't want to be for?
22:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He likes a gimmicky villain for sure.
22:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to jump to 426, which is called Graven Images.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It turns out this super patriot and this mysterious super villain are working together.
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're in a cemetery where they dig up the grave of Roland Boros, the first death adder in order to get a genetic sample of him.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: The death adder looks very cool.
22:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Prize, I think he was designed by George Perez.
22:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Roland Boros, no relation to William.
22:28
[SPEAKER_02]: He looks really cool.
22:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he's basically, he kind of looks like a more badass version of Triton from the Inhuman, and they've got this like big green thin.
22:41
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got a long spiky tail, like big purple, clawed gloves.
22:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's like jumping out of the grave.
22:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Super Patriot is like, why aren't you talking back to me?
22:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Dittering is like, well, I guess I can't speak.
22:53
[SPEAKER_02]: He's
22:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Snakes Dean, so obviously he joins the Serpent Squad, the precursor to Serpent Society if I'm not mistaken.
23:00
[SPEAKER_02]: He was mixed up in the whole Serpent crown thing.
23:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Very fainted, it's crossed over.
23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: He killed Modock, I think.
23:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, Geridge shot him.
23:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that the scourge of the underworld?
23:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
23:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Just somebody else names.
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: say well it was a whole organization of scourges of the underworld but this is that like justice is served like a plot that goes on for a long time in comics where they're like weeding out lesser-used villains.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Deathatter dies kind of tragically in the comics actually and it serves as like an escape platform for like Captain America as a scape girl friend because the scourge shot the deathatter.
23:33
[SPEAKER_01]: This man was like he submitted himself to experiments and then like came out as this guy which is just rough you know like my mouth is gone is a side-effect of
23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Steve, if I do a super Patriot in this section, will you read Dead Ringer?
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
23:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So death at our pops out, or they're getting the genetic sample of death at our super Patriot, as they're digging up a grave, says six feet under is right.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do so many grave diggers take that measurement so literally?
23:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe to keep you guys like us in shape.
24:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, Lou, as if there were other grave robbing Patriots and necromanctics around, I'll break the casket fastening, then it's all yours.
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: What you do is a little too rod-serling for me, which is a twilight zone reference, almost referring to rod-serling, as if he was like the crypt keeper from the HBO Tales of the Crypt show.
24:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You think I get my jolly's doing this?
24:26
[SPEAKER_00]: If there was any other way to absorb these bodies, powers and skills, I'd jump at it.
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So who was the first one you ever imitated?
24:33
[SPEAKER_00]: My cat, Demelsa.
24:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, first of all, first hint that they're gay.
24:37
[SPEAKER_01]: No straight man names they're cat, Demelsa.
24:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Just kidding.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, a few people named anyone, Demelsa.
24:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Demels isn't amazing name for a cat.
24:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So he wants to turn to his cat Demelsa.
24:50
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I meant humans of super patriot.
24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But dead ringer can't answer because Death Adder is mute and he's changed forms.
24:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, look at you.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Change back will you?
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to waste your template change on trying to spook me.
25:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, my vocal cords were paralyzed.
25:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, come on, let's cover up the poor Slob and get out of here.
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be Dawn soon and we don't want to run into the groundskeeper.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, these guys are just digging up graves to get body parts.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is now a horror story and it's gross.
25:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to just walk back a second.
25:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so wild how the first time he gives his origin.
25:21
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, yeah, I was an animal if when I was a kid.
25:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, of course, an animal if everyone are those old books where you can see the kids changing into animals and the creepiest art you've ever seen and every front cover.
25:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He never brings this up again, but the fact that he turned into a cat as like a pre-teen and had no idea what was happening to him.
25:38
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like there's an entire series of novels about that.
25:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm not clear if he's like telling the truth.
25:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the mystery around dead-ringer is unresolved to the, like, There's any questions later on.
25:48
[SPEAKER_00]: He's lying about the cat because he's embarrassed about what really happened.
25:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though he looks, he's interesting.
25:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm also curious, is was death out of berries like that?
25:58
[SPEAKER_02]: is just like in the DNA that Dead Ringer is accessing, he just remembers the clothes.
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, yeah, no, I think he's pulling up like the template of like the height of villainy.
26:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Death Atters down there in a nice little suit.
26:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry with the green fin out the back.
26:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he's buried in his his uniform.
26:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, have you ever met at Demelsa and are you a necromantic?
26:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to say no to both, turn to think.
26:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, there are any dead people who are currently dead that I love and I don't think.
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We go a little bit later and suddenly a dead-ringer changes into another character called The Night Flyer.
26:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He tells us by the way, I happened upon his cremains at a flea market, which is insane to me.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about Nightflyer.
26:50
[SPEAKER_00]: That honestly, that line is so much more insane when you know about Nightflyer.
26:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would love to actually, I would really love to take a second to talk about this guy.
26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I had never heard of Nightflyer.
27:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I read him in this story, I was like, big deal.
27:03
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a hang lighter.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I read his stories and he's so cool.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like the most interesting character.
27:09
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, he's from Jack Kirby, Captain America Comics, and not like 1940s ones, which are the ones I've really read.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: He's from like 70s Jack Kirby kept in order to comic such a wild and beautiful.
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a hangwriter.
27:21
[SPEAKER_00]: He is a perfectionist, zealot assassin who talks like, hey, JoJo's bizarre adventure villain.
27:27
[SPEAKER_00]: He is constantly talking about how he will win because he ever sent praise perfection, and other people will lose because they are necessarily imperfect.
27:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so interesting that he has this philosophy that he does everything by.
27:38
[SPEAKER_00]: He's very high on himself despite being a hanglight in dude.
27:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's got all sorts of other powers that just never come up in the story like he's got like electric blasts from his fingers and he can like take out an entire room full of shield agents with EMP's very interesting dude very scary maybe a robot maybe not when his glider is destroyed.
27:58
[SPEAKER_00]: He dies to really path vulnerability in your superpowers.
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like literally nobody has been able to kill him But if you blow up his hand glider even if it's away from him.
28:09
[SPEAKER_00]: He just fucking ties He gets resurrected in a a Hulk comic by the corruptor eventually and the same thing happens eventually The Hulk destroys his glider and he just like pops and turns into cinders So sometime after fighting the Hulk and being killed I don't know thunderbolt Ross sold his cramains at a flea market
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe someone bought it on eBay and then like just got rid of it.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, apparently, if Dead Ringer is telling the truth, he found the cramanes, cramanes, by the way, is like wild word already.
28:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Found the cramanes and like used it.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And he saved it up so he could go flying with his no boyfriend.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So super patriot has changed back into Captain America.
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And there he's just flying around with with night flyer who has his big old cape wings and uh,
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Assaults some cops because again, they're trying to ruin Captain America's name and then they fly around a bit more But then they have the worst luck because they run into the resistance Not not within the CE at the end with the TS resistant with a with an S afterwards So this is a paramilitary group of mutants
29:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, were you familiar with these characters before?
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the resistance, actually.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So when the match of the evil showed up, the Melter was among them, and I was like, oh, wasn't Melter one of the Magneto's brotherhood, and I was like, no, that's that was burner, and then led me in the rabbit holes like, wait, those people became the resistance.
29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I love them, speaking of
29:35
[SPEAKER_02]: amazing Jack Kirby 1970s cats in America comics they first appeared in um cats in America annual number four with the best comics of the era where a magneto puts out and add in the paper because he needs to get a very tiny man and mister one and his giant um alternate
29:55
[SPEAKER_02]: body number, Mr. 2, to get inside a flying saucer that has a tiny door.
30:02
[SPEAKER_02]: He, Magneto, is aided by his brotherhood of evil mutants who in this incarnation are, you know him, you love him from sword, peeper, Magneto's best friend, peeper, there's lifter who can lift things.
30:14
[SPEAKER_02]: There's burner who can burn things and then there's their shocker who is who can shock things.
30:19
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got like claw hands.
30:21
[SPEAKER_02]: You may have seen him in the new X-Men issue where they're cleaning up Geno show.
30:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That was my first interaction with him.
30:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's Slyther who's a snake man who is not a part of the resistance because as a snake, he joins the Serpent Society.
30:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, so yeah, they have, I guess since that issue, they worked for mandrel as mutant force, and then now they have become the resistance, thanks to Mark Ruinwald, and they've all changed their name, so now Piper is a cult,
30:56
[SPEAKER_02]: He decided that he likes meteorite, so they fly around on a big flaming meteorite, and that's just what they do, and shocker is paralyzer, and burner is crucible.
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, it's like a whole power circuit.
31:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Lifters lifting this giant, it's a rock.
31:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The burner lifts it on fire, and then like peepers, they're like looker, and he's like looking out, I'm using their original names here, obviously.
31:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
31:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's their true name, there's a plan around on a flame.
31:24
[SPEAKER_01]: like a flaming rock in the sky.
31:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, of course, was like got so excited that I deviated from this issue and I went and read some of their other appearances.
31:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And this apparently is just what they do.
31:35
[SPEAKER_02]: They're encountered flying from one corner to another.
31:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Their mutant revelations, they go around saving mutants.
31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: They're really like way better than the exterminators or ex-actor of the their original inclination.
31:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're just so wonderful.
31:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so glad they're here.
31:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to talk about their uniform?
31:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a team uniform?
31:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so they are mistaken for the X-Men by these two super patriots and did ringer shows what they know, but they have like yellow body suits, sort of like metallic helmet.
32:09
[SPEAKER_02]: that kind of look like tempos with sort of like a cyclops like visor for their eyes.
32:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Peeper, of course, because he has more of a circular head.
32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just a complete dome that maybe looks like it has some teeth drawn on there in this one drawing.
32:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they have like giant like 90s ass like band allures and pouches and like
32:29
[SPEAKER_02]: extra gear that's like kind of a lilac, purpley color.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This group has a wild history, Karen's referenced a lot of it, but even just as there was this dance, I love that we're calling them, the ants at the end of XBF.
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: The resistance are like a paramilitary group.
32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Think of like what kiddo mega did with the Omega Gang during rioted Xavier's.
32:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the group that's like fuck you, we're gonna fight back.
32:53
[SPEAKER_01]: This group is a contemporary of like the mutant liberation front.
32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: and they're like doing paramilitary, like rescuing mutants, and in the original X-Men, if you go back to Polaris's first appearance, Mesmero thinks he's working for Magneto, and he builds a giant city for mutants in the American Southwestern desert.
33:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And Grunwald brings that back for this group.
33:16
[SPEAKER_01]: That's their base in the city of mutants that Mesmero wants built in like 1963 or whatever.
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So this group is living out there and like mentalo joins them for a while.
33:27
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys like the character mentalo, he goes by think tank.
33:30
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a couple of other random mutants that we'll talk a little bit about.
33:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But we later learned that the red skull is funding and he's in his kingpin era and he's funding all these groups like the watchdogs and the resistance.
33:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And he just wants to like create chaos in the American government and the red skulls behind all of the little groups that capspen fighting through this time.
33:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Steve, I'm watching your face just go delighted at this conversation about the resistance.
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to share any of the things?
33:56
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I can't really cover it.
33:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just, I knew that they would be excited when they figured out who it was, but I didn't want to spoil it.
34:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But I am so happy that you went and re-read that Captain America annual because that shit rules.
34:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so burner lifterin peepers are a cult meteorite and crucible and if you've heard it at Alicia Wilder and I got high one day and did a whole patreon on peepers in extreme detail.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I fucking love this character.
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So they run into nightfire who did ringer in the form of nightfire and super Patriot on the flaming asteroid and they don't like Captain America.
34:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So super Patriot yells don't look now, but there are three guys riding a rock.
34:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Those uniforms, I think they're the X-Men.
34:38
[SPEAKER_01]: The Metflayer's wings get set on fire, which, again, is a major vulnerability for this character.
34:43
[SPEAKER_01]: One weird one.
34:45
[SPEAKER_01]: No, my only weird one.
34:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Your glider wings on fire take us down before we burn up, says Super Patriot.
34:52
[SPEAKER_01]: They lab safely, Super Patriot says, we know they fly meteors and shoot fire.
34:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You got anybody in your repertoire who might be good at countering any of that?
35:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking it's hard to concentrate on your pressure.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But then the resistance just crash a whole burning meteor on top of them.
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Dead ringer gets the gun burned out of his hands and then it's open combat between the two groups.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But then meteorite just like lifts them up and smashes them into each other.
35:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's like crazy telekinesis.
35:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, do you want to read meteorite here?
35:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, keep smashing you and your anonymous partner together till you're both dripping sacks of broken bones.
35:30
[SPEAKER_01]: This sounds kinky.
35:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Dead ringer replies.
35:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell them we're not who we think we are.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: No, oh, so super Patriot had enough.
35:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You pathetic champions of humanity.
35:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't.
35:42
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not oozing yet.
35:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Crucible.
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: A cult.
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Get your floppy butts over your own witness.
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: My greatest triumph.
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to say dripping sack, flabby butt.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're not oozing yet.
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to my show character.
35:54
[SPEAKER_01]: These characters are the best.
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm telling you, Jack Kirby, Bradford.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But suddenly deathatter is back.
36:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So of course, it's a, it's a, it's a dead trigger again.
36:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And he just kicks meteorites ass.
36:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And then code blue shows up.
36:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is a 90's dive that it just Steve, do you want to tell us about code blue?
36:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I really like, I don't even know what to say.
36:15
[SPEAKER_00]: My notes just say code blue they are super cops from thunder strike which is true I I wish I had to say much more of her to say about them, but I like I read your strike comics as a kid And I don't remember these guys.
36:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say they're just I erase the cops from my brain
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: The super cops code blue.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like when shielded the super agents of shield.
36:36
[SPEAKER_01]: These super cops are just kind of obscured 90s characters who are like in a bunch of Tom Defelco titles.
36:41
[SPEAKER_01]: They even get like at their own backup feature and some Thor comics, but really wildly you don't need to worry about it.
36:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So now, cap and dead wringer back in his human form are pretending to be the good guys like you're just in time officers and they framed the resistance for the robbery that they had just committed.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So they framed the mutants.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, dead wringer says,
37:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice acting job.
37:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That was close one.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I deserve an Oscar.
37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Not only did I lose all our money, but instead of dragging caps rep through the mud, I ended up making him look good by nailing some of his flaky foes with your help, of course.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: 427 Captain America and Diamondback get a picture of the other cap fighting Solar.
37:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, I also have a Solar episode with Steve Fox out there, but do you want to tell everyone about Solar?
37:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Fortunately, you can't have the same amount of enthusiasm for Solar, but Silas King is from a subushema comic.
37:39
[SPEAKER_02]: He was a latent mutant from a Captain America comic.
37:42
[SPEAKER_02]: He really was not around for very long.
37:45
[SPEAKER_02]: He was killed in a fight at Project Pegasus, somebody named Briss who used magic.
37:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And basically, he's like solar themed.
37:54
[SPEAKER_02]: He like shoot fire, like heat blast.
37:56
[SPEAKER_02]: He does show up in the recent Dead X men.
37:59
[SPEAKER_02]: in the sort of like ramp down of Kerkoa.
38:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So like that's probably where I recognize him up easily.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm feeling like my show can like I've been on the burn draw him before.
38:08
[SPEAKER_01]: My show cannot claim credit, but Steve Fox and I did a solar episode and then he brought then they brought solar back in that X-Men, which is amazing.
38:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Now if you watch the animated series, there's also that weird mutant group at Skolmesa and solar is Brian Braddock, the leader of
38:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So then Dead Ringer also changes into another old scourge victim named the cheetah Steve tells about the cheetah The cheetah is a step on Karakus, which is my best guess at his strange last name He's a creep-powered claw fighter and anti-capitalist bandit from Mexico He's killed by scourge in the classic bar with no name masquer, I believe
38:52
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... he's from kept in marvel comics it was like it's it's a kind of a confusing story because a century gets a crecentry gets down didn't like Mexico and first it like absorbs the memories of another guy like a different Mexican guy and just like I don't go on a rampage
39:07
[SPEAKER_00]: like while like kind of trying to upload its memories into itself.
39:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Later after it's defeated, it uses its power to reach out to like the best friend of that dead guy, which is another dude, and that's who the cheetah is.
39:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The cheetah gets claws and superhuman strength in agility, and he puts out a suit, and you know, he fights Captain Marvel.
39:25
[SPEAKER_00]: He kind of hilariously calls himself Elgato, which is, to my knowledge, does not translate to the cheetah in Mexican Spanish or otherwise.
39:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Not to be confused with the catwoman character of the cheetah.
39:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Once played by Kristen Wigg and a movie, which is a wild wild pop culture moment as well.
39:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I do not know what this line means, but Super Patriot looks at the cheetah and says, a Bergen man, are you cheetah?
39:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what this reference means.
39:51
[SPEAKER_01]: A Bergen man, I couldn't find it anywhere.
39:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have guessed you liked your meat raw.
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you doing here, Katnip?
39:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Has Kat's hit the dinner theater circuit?
40:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Good deal.
40:04
[SPEAKER_01]: The world's starting to spread that caps gone wild.
40:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's see if my necromanic ring friend and I can't hit that notion home some more.
40:12
[SPEAKER_01]: The more damage we cause the better.
40:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, Karen, do you like a really punny, quicky speech like this?
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: has cats hit the dinner theater cat box?
40:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think at the pens, I probably more often than that, I'm not a fan of like super puns, unless it's sort of like this.
40:31
[SPEAKER_02]: My main thing with this whole scene is just like he's wearing banshee's costume kind of.
40:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like cat banshee, or like banshee bullfee.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're staging another public battle to ruin Cap's reputation.
40:45
[SPEAKER_01]: A fry cook comes out of the restaurant and dumps hot grease on Cheetah who runs out screaming.
40:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And Captain America, who's supposed to be the good guy here, is piss.
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: What the fuck did you do?
40:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You little shit.
40:56
[SPEAKER_01]: The bad words are blocked out, but I just put them in for you.
40:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So later we now have Dead Ringer posing as blackouts.
41:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Marcus Daniels, Karen, do you want to tell us about blackout?
41:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So black out is a Nova character designed by Carmine and Fentino, and he has a wielder of the dark force.
41:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have surely remember him from the opening of Lead Hunt, Dark Force themed event where he is turned into a portal for all kinds of vampire shenanigans.
41:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he was a part of the underseize the vendor's storyline, the part of the masses of evil and then inclination, but he is killed.
41:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he may be getting some focus on my show later this year, stay to we'll talk more about it.
41:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But he has dark force powers, and like he's kind of a poor man's electro, he's got like a lightning bolt hat that's kind of a fun costume.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, Blackout is here and Blackout is sent to capture Bernie Rosenfall, the previously established, uh, girlfriend, former girlfriend of Captain America, who's now an attorney, but he accidentally captures her and diamond back.
42:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Whoops, looks like I snagged too hasty just for the price of one.
42:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Super Patriot only wanted me to nap the Rosenfall woman, but what the hey, the more the merrier.
42:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, ladies.
42:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You are now the guests of the original Blackout.
42:12
[SPEAKER_00]: No heart will come to you if you behave yourselves.
42:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy the ride.
42:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy that he let them know he's the original, because there's that demonic version running around fighting ghost writers, so there's another blackout character that's more prominent in some ways.
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So he flies them through the air in his like dark force box and brings them back to a warehouse and says, this ought to do it.
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you ladies enjoy the ride.
42:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll have to excuse the decor.
42:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of us supervillains can't afford fancy headquarters there.
42:37
[SPEAKER_00]: That a bit more comfortable.
42:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me a minute.
42:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me get the lights.
42:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Bernie Rosenthals says, compared to the red
42:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my favorite in the whole episode.
42:48
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we figure out why he wants us?
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, would you give us a dive-in-back?
42:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I have an idea.
42:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Just remember to act properly, fearful, and submissive.
42:56
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know him on him to go psycho on us while we're stuck like this.
42:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Dead-ringer comes back and says, What were you two whispering about?
43:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Bernie says I I was just asking my friend here.
43:05
[SPEAKER_00]: What I should do you see I have to go to the bathroom something fearsome I'm afraid I'm going to please sir.
43:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to embarrass myself Is there a time for this?
43:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Patriot was supposed to summon cap as soon as he saw me arrived Well, okay, lady.
43:19
[SPEAKER_00]: No funny stuff diamond bag says.
43:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, thank you sir.
43:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
43:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got one minute.
43:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, then I come in and get I have a shy bladder Could I please have to not address me by my name?
43:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he knows who I am
43:31
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no window in there.
43:32
[SPEAKER_00]: No way she can get out, except through the door she came in.
43:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish pictured and briefed me what I should do with this happening.
43:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, lady, you're two minutes of just about up.
43:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You better be done, lady.
43:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, answer me.
43:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I really wish super prayed for you.
43:45
[SPEAKER_01]: What I would actually do if I accidentally kidnap two women and one of them has to pee.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the only scenario we didn't cover.
43:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But she's changed back into diamond vagueness.
43:54
[SPEAKER_01]: She smashes through the wall.
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a gas diamond to the face.
43:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And diamond back says,
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You want an answer, both, though.
44:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I got something even better.
44:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And don't be here.
44:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Dead ringer is getting his ass kicked, but quick solvers, the one that shows up, not Captain America, surprise, quick solvers here.
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So dead ringer gets several punches to the skull from quick solver, and then he changes to blue streak.
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Steve, tell us about blue streak.
44:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be blue streak is done Thomas.
44:21
[SPEAKER_00]: He's another corporation-goon, like several other people who have been killed already.
44:25
[SPEAKER_00]: He was also killed by Scourge.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like a high tech roller derby guy.
44:31
[SPEAKER_00]: He's originally from cap to 17.
44:34
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the predecessor to the All-Uing favorite character that The original blue streak before he gets his blue costume is like He looks like a disco guy with like an open shirt.
44:47
[SPEAKER_00]: He's on roller skate And he's like hanging around with the Texas Twister in the vamp truly delicious Yeah, I correct me if I wrong somebody listeners listeners come find me in social media yell at me He does not have a healing factor, right?
44:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I said I'm gonna tear like I'm using blue streaks healing background like what the fuck are you talking about?
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we don't know the limits of his powers, like if he switches forms, does it heal his wounds?
45:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he's got a new tissue template?
45:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
45:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's what it is.
45:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I really love Jonathan Swift, the secondary glue streak.
45:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I got nothing for this guy, and I was actually shocked to find that he was only like, he's like three issues after night flyers introduced, and at some point they switched from Jack Kirby to Roy Thomas, so sometimes, you know.
45:30
[SPEAKER_00]: things get jumbled up.
45:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So Dead Ringer, who's fighting Quicksilver, has summoned his super speed powers, and he yells, the name's blue streaks over top.
45:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, let's say you pick on somebody your own speed.
45:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So Dead Ringer rushes away on his super speed roller skates, and then he starts a trash fire with a laser pistol on the way out, leaving the super Patriot to pretend to rescue the two women.
45:52
[SPEAKER_01]: They realize very quickly who he is.
45:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, Bernadette Rosenthall knew him before.
45:56
[SPEAKER_01]: As Captain America arrives, so Super Patriot draws a gun and a bullet grazes Captain America's head.
46:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I could have to do this whole clip into you, man.
46:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you like that?
46:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It'd be easy.
46:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Poof, no more living legend.
46:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd better bless your lucky stars I'm no common murderer.
46:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So now the buildings on fire and Super Patriot ends up getting pinned under a burning beam.
46:17
[SPEAKER_01]: and Captain America is in danger, his health is bad, so he has a heart attack outside because of super soldier serum problems, and he has to be saved by a quick silver who leaves blue street tied up outside.
46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's pause for a sec.
46:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Steve, do you want to talk about these crazy hijigs birdie and diamond back?
46:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Please, Mr.
46:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to pee real bad.
46:37
[SPEAKER_00]: do and just like I don't know coming out of the bathroom with a gas bomb classic I get it but there's just there's a lot going on here that is like Mark Mark Brunwald no stranger to King for psychosexuality you know he really is like the Chris Plairman of Captain America comics but even when when I was reading this I was like I don't I don't know man like is this supposed to be
46:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy how Diamondback has like her full costume, as well as like several throwing diamonds, just like on underneath her clothing, truly implausible, just a wild set of decisions.
47:10
[SPEAKER_01]: We jumped to issue 428.
47:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Dead Ringer is arrested, and he's being interrogated by the cops.
47:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, do you want to give us the cop here?
47:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is America?
47:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, this is a story.
47:20
[SPEAKER_01]: No, the Americaps are different characters.
47:22
[SPEAKER_01]: These are just our regular garden variety cop cops.
47:25
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Mr. Dexter.
47:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, wait, can I take a moment this scene so dead ringer looks totally different here than he looked all the other time, so I'm just like who's the real version.
47:36
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a learning consistency in this art even though it is the same pencil or anchor the entire time.
47:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes sense because you can like change his shape, but I'm just like, it's just so many more questions that are than are ever answered.
47:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Who does he really look like?
47:50
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know.
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, as Granny Browna writes.
47:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, all right, Mr. Dexter, let me tell you what I think is your story.
47:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, thank you.
47:59
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't have time to like have him explain it himself.
48:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Feel free to jump in and correct me.
48:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You met this guy who said his name is Super Patriot.
48:07
[SPEAKER_02]: He said, I heard you got the power to imitate people.
48:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to join me in my bandette against castes in America.
48:14
[SPEAKER_02]: For some cock and Amy reason, you say yes.
48:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And the two of you start staging stunts to make cap look bad.
48:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Ham dressed up like cap.
48:22
[SPEAKER_02]: You imitating dead criminals because dead crims can't sue.
48:26
[SPEAKER_02]: No, don't take it.
48:27
[SPEAKER_02]: You're way off.
48:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Then why don't you tell me your way.
48:30
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be here till you do.
48:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Start with this imitating dead people thing.
48:34
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you do that?
48:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Beats me.
48:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm just one of those mutants.
48:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I just touch a stiff and I'm able to imitate them for a while.
48:40
[SPEAKER_00]: At least you want a demonstration.
48:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he offering to touch the cops stiff?
48:46
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a good port.
48:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, all right, but no funny stuff.
48:50
[SPEAKER_02]: There's at least 15 cops strained to deal with guys like you between you and outside.
48:56
[SPEAKER_02]: You're the port music, of course.
48:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Early at exaggeration.
48:59
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, here goes.
49:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I haven't tried yet.
49:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Ta-da!
49:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Clothing and all.
49:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So he changes into snap dragon, which causes Diamondback who's been watching to flip the fuck out because Steve tells about snap dragon.
49:17
[SPEAKER_01]: which is amazing.
49:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Snapdragon is a, she's a feminism from superior times, you know, like,
49:24
[SPEAKER_00]: superior for people.
49:26
[SPEAKER_00]: She's an enemy slash coworker of Diamondback.
49:29
[SPEAKER_00]: She nearly killed her and later she was killed by her.
49:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Rachel drowned her in a shallow fountain after being thrown over a cruise ship by her unconscious and barely surviving being lost in the ocean.
49:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a whole epic tragedy feud thing that definitely is worth reading the entire Greenwald run to get like the pine points of,
49:53
[SPEAKER_00]: By appearing Rachel Diamondback finally realizes that she is definitely dead, which she's been worried about.
49:58
[SPEAKER_00]: She's been spending a long time concerned that she may have actually killed Snapdragon, like she wanted to kill her, but also, you know, she's trying to go straight for Captain America, you know.
50:07
[SPEAKER_01]: A Snapdragon little black widow foe, Brian Michael Bendisy, later uses her a lot in like his moon night series.
50:15
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like resurrected from nothing.
50:16
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like no explanation whatsoever for why she's back alive, but she is now.
50:20
[SPEAKER_01]: and her real name is Sheoke Sonata, which is a great name.
50:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So Diamondback grabs a snap dragon.
50:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Dead Ringer, because as he changes back into his regular form, Karen, if you'll take Diamondback here, where did you find the body you're imitating?
50:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Answer me or so help me find on me, are we?
50:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Answer me.
50:37
[SPEAKER_00]: What difference does it make?
50:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Please tell me, let me use this.
50:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You put it so nicely, new Orleans.
50:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Americaop shows up.
50:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And Americaop is like a patriotic version of Robocop.
50:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's truly a rough and uncomfortable story.
50:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever these characters are used, don't worry about it.
50:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And then things go crazy for a while and Greenwald gets back to this story several many issues later when we jump into Captain America number 438 and 439 when we finally get the answers.
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So Captain America is now in his full body armor as referenced earlier, Flag, Smasher and Ultimatum are here, Ultimatum stands for the underground liberated, totally integrated, mobile army to unite mankind and they all wear white masks and cute French parades.
51:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jack Flag is here.
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: He has a patriotic boom box in redweb and blue hair and free spirits here.
51:28
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like a like a like a video.
51:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
51:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Jane found to exercise video teenager.
51:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, have you seen the substance?
51:35
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the younger version of Demi Moore.
51:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So in issue 438 Captain America or excuse me Bernie tracks down the super Patriot because she recognized him to his house and he grabs her and then in 439 the Falcon sees Kyle Richmond or the billionaire playboy Nighthawk flying around but
51:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, isn't Nighthawk dead?
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: He was at this time, at least.
51:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Nighthawk fires some wing blasters at Falcon and sets a building on fire to cover as a scape and then Bernie chases the super patriot.
52:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And she finally unmasks.
52:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the big reveal that you never needed.
52:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Mike Farrell.
52:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so unsatisfying.
52:11
[SPEAKER_01]: This would be like if the executioner in the comics, unmasked as like Ted, like Gene Gray's boyfriend from college in the 1960s and everyone's like, who?
52:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my mind.
52:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I do like Ted actually, Ted Roberts.
52:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the former fireman who then later joined the racist group The Watch Dogs.
52:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But then he went to prison and then he found a way to cap blame Captain America for ruining his life.
52:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So now he wants revenge.
52:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a white guy outlaw, like part 10,000 and 12 here.
52:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But in prison, he met a guy named Lou Dexter and let's talk about how queer this relationship becomes.
52:48
[SPEAKER_01]: There's sellmates.
52:49
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no mate.
52:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like Black Tom and Doug, I don't make all mates.
52:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So now they're living in their little love nest and Lou Dexter, the real name for Dead Ringer is not very happy to see Bernie Rosenthal in his house.
53:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Mike's ex-friend or girlfriend or something.
53:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Lou is pissed.
53:05
[SPEAKER_00]: He says, what have you told her about me, Mike?
53:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing.
53:08
[SPEAKER_00]: She's here about me, not you.
53:10
[SPEAKER_00]: A team now, Mike, or have you forgotten?
53:14
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but we...
53:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we can't let her go again.
53:17
[SPEAKER_00]: She'll turn us in.
53:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to go into person again, Mike?
53:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you?
53:19
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not going to turn us in.
53:21
[SPEAKER_01]: She's the lawyer.
53:22
[SPEAKER_01]: She'll negotiate a settlement with CAPS so we can... What happened to the fire in you, Mike?
53:26
[SPEAKER_00]: What happened to our big plans to take the world by a star?
53:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, Lou.
53:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't have it in me anymore.
53:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So Lou grabs Mike by the lapel and changes into the Basilisk, which means we have to do another side tangent.
53:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The Karen tells about the Basilisk.
53:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm fully assumed this was like the original vision, but no, it's Bazzle S, X, his real name is Bazzle S, who has IBM's, as you might expect being a Bazzle, it's pretty simple, I kind of gale cane design and what I could read, he's got his powers from an alpha stone, which is not an MCU infinity stone, it's totally different, and he was killed by the score of the underworld.
54:09
[SPEAKER_01]: another wild character fun marble camp villain.
54:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So while the two boyfriends are fighting, Bernie moves over to the wall and finds a cigar box full of severed fingers.
54:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Dead ringer says, you should have been snooping woman.
54:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Super Patriot says, you never told me about this.
54:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I can assume the shape of a dead person I've touched only one unless I touch them again.
54:29
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I take souvenirs.
54:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You told me you were grossed out by having to touch dead people to make your morphing power work.
54:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I find this.
54:37
[SPEAKER_01]: What else have you lied to me about, Lou?
54:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Get a grip, Mike.
54:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I do what I have to do.
54:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So do you.
54:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And Bernie jumps in, sir.
54:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I know what Mike's grudge is against Captain America.
54:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But what's yours?
54:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I need explain nothing to you, woman.
54:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Dead Ringer calls Captain America the real one into lure him into a trap and super patriotic ties up Bernie's hands and feet.
54:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And now they have a little heart to heart.
55:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Lou and I met in prison, we were sell mates.
55:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But how does he do those transformations?
55:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't know, he's one of those mutants, I guess, which is a repeat from the earlier line.
55:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Dead Ringer says, Mike, I'm getting pretty annoyed.
55:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Captain America could be here in any minute and you're not even in position.
55:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I keep telling you, Lou, I don't think I'm up for this right now.
55:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just go and... We're gonna have ourselves knocked down drag-out fight with one of the best fighters on Earth and you're telling me, you've got cold feet!
55:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Get your act together, man!
55:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Now go to your lookout!
55:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Bernie says, please, I'm dying to know more about you.
55:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got the most amazing power I've ever heard of.
55:36
[SPEAKER_00]: That I do.
55:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'll tell you a tidbit or two.
55:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to do any good by the time we're done here.
55:42
[SPEAKER_00]: My story began when I was 13.
55:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd come from school to find my father lying on the kitchen floor.
55:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I bet down to see if he was a sleeper unconscious or what.
55:50
[SPEAKER_00]: He was dead.
55:51
[SPEAKER_00]: A heart attack.
55:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I later learned.
55:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But as I touched him, I felt a kind of rush.
55:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like my body was falling in all directions at once.
55:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I soon realized I had been transformed into the exact likeness of my old man right down to the clothes.
56:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That was freaked out as you might guess.
56:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Fortunately by concentrating real hard, I was able to change back to normal.
56:10
[SPEAKER_00]: As I got older, I became obsessed with trying to learn if what happened to me could be repeat.
56:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I became an average funeral gore.
56:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I became an avid funeral gore.
56:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure enough, I could imitate any dead person I touched, and even learn to delay the transformation to a time of my choosing.
56:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I started to collect obituaries of super humans who died, and also people with power and cast you.
56:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, the first time I tried to exume one of them, I got busted for grave robbing.
56:42
[SPEAKER_00]: With Mike's help, however, I've been able to gather quite a collection of template bodies.
56:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I replicated their physical abilities along with their outward appearance, then I got the idea that if I were able to touch the corpse of a powerful person, I might really be able to do something with my talent.
56:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You can store up more than one, says Verdi.
56:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't cover us!
57:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Though once I mimic them, they pass out of my repertoire.
57:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that he calls dead finger collection his rep with who are so why do you do it why do what do you hope to accomplish usual get rich in famous and meet women.
57:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah sure, but then the armored captain of America bursts in and dead ringer thinks
57:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Crapes never saw him coming got to change into my trip card got to concentrate his trump card.
57:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, and then he turns into the death stalker We have another villain journey Steve tells him about the death stalker.
57:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot about this guy actually
57:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Sterling he is a real nasty guy from Daredevil he is one of the comics characters who has like actually no reason to be evil like he was born rich in famous he's born to like a wealthy American family he's just rich in wealthy and white and that's why he's evil
57:49
[SPEAKER_00]: First, he was the exterminator with the unholy three great name for three animal costume guys, then he was the death stalker.
57:56
[SPEAKER_00]: He faked being the death's head to terrorize current page.
57:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And eventually he killed himself on accident by jumping through a tombstone because it was dark out.
58:05
[SPEAKER_01]: He could travel between dimensions.
58:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He could turn intangible because of that.
58:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had microwave death gloves.
58:11
[SPEAKER_00]: He died in a Daredevil 158, a great issue.
58:14
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also a lady that's stalker out there.
58:16
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to go look them up, I wrote those profiles on the appendix.
58:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The unholy three also were the anime that worked for Count Nefaria back in the early, like Thunderbird dies issues.
58:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So Captain America jumps in.
58:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You have the right to remain silent.
58:28
[SPEAKER_00]: enough that crap captain you're not taking me in I am way too powerful and if you think that shiny robot cop super is going to help you you don't know what you're up against I think you said robot cop soup and no I'm wondering what that tastes like super dangerous I made it at the time
58:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Super Patriot says, Lou, you're doing death stalker, but I thought we agreed he was too dangerous.
58:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm winning this time.
58:53
[SPEAKER_00]: No matter what I have to do, I've had it imitating low-lifes and losers.
58:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to become someone good.
59:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be Captain Freaking America!
59:02
[SPEAKER_01]: My god, Lou, is that why you've been helping me with my revenge trip on him?
59:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You wanted to kill him, so you could, but dead-ringer grabs Captain America's hands and says, I'll feel my touch.
59:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the worst defeat of all time, Cap is wearing armor, and this isn't skin.
59:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So Deathstalker just phases through the wall and goes for Bernie instead.
59:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you have a choice, Robo Cap, and a big chance to go out a hero, surrender to my touch, or I'll touch her.
59:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to the count of one.
59:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't touch her, Ringer.
59:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You can have me.
59:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But Super Patriot intervenes, grabs his hand.
59:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We've done a lot of low things, Lou, but we've never killed.
59:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you jerk, you've touched my hand by killing him.
59:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And Super Patriot falls dead.
59:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Captain America knocks out dead ringer with a compressed air cannon and we have never seen dead ringer again.
59:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this character is kind of magic.
59:57
[SPEAKER_01]: There is campy dialogue, blocky art, but we gotta talk about the sex life of Super Patriot and dead ringer.
1:00:05
[SPEAKER_01]: There is all kinds of role play.
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_01]: He, the Super Patriot has fucked so many dead Super villains in the form of his boyfriend.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_01]: There is so much happening for these two.
1:00:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Karen, what are your thoughts on the queer connection between these characters?
1:00:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you not see it?
1:00:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's obviously there.
1:00:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they were filming, of course.
1:00:23
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not knowing that women go to the bathroom.
1:00:27
[SPEAKER_02]: But,
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're dynamic and it's really interesting because they seem to have completely slipped like maybe when we revealed it with my feral who is super patriotic Like well, he was a good guy, so he got to like make him less of the evil one.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess they like switch it up quite a bit and yeah, I think dead ringer is getting really revved up so he's he wants to top
1:00:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally, and in the previous arc, Lou is just like an old guy who kind of is like, what do I do next, super patriot, and then it's like, no, I'm in charge.
1:00:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, like, like, like, you jerk.
1:00:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I think it's really fun.
1:01:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I do agree with Karen that it becomes an entirely different kind of story when it comes back at the end.
1:01:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
1:01:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I think they're really fun together these two guys.
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_00]: They spend a lot of time just kind of being bozos trying to figure out super
1:01:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's something romantic and touching in that.
1:01:18
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you want to work with somebody on a similar level of experience.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Dead Wringer, what genre is he?
1:01:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he the gimmick villain?
1:01:24
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the guy that's able to bring back all the losers you want and have like cameo appearances.
1:01:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he a horror villain?
1:01:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he more than necromanetic, kind of creepy guy who's got kind of weird zombie powers that are really kind of freaky and scary.
1:01:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is he like major villain status villain where he has the opportunity to come back and just totally fucking ruin some hero's life because he is kind of mystiquey in that kind of way where he can change shape and do all kinds of creepy things what genre does he fall into for you?
1:01:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Dead ringer is the clip episode where you've run out of budget and so you just need to like show all the old things So it's very useful in an anniversary issue if you're like, oh, we want to show him fighting all of his greatest villains Then not have to like come up with a reason why he's budget
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Dead Ringer has serious potential for a pulpy horror story, like he could be the solo character of sort of like an inverted human target where he just goes around impersonating villains that are so low class that nobody even knows their dead yet.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_00]: He could lead a series with this and he has a lot of weird stuff going on, but the way he's used he's just that guy, you know, I think if they ever brought it back, I'd love to see more of an angle on his like grossness, but you know,
1:02:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he has some interesting story potential where Mojo casts him as the every man, you know, in whatever, or he takes a job working for like mastermind.
1:02:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like really reinforcing the illusions.
1:02:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Or he's doing his own criminal mastermind thing.
1:02:54
[SPEAKER_01]: He comes after Emma Frost, and he poses as all of the hellians in order to fuck with her because somebody paid him to do so.
1:03:00
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like also the story where like he amps himself up as like saver tooth and gets caught Wolverine kicks his ass and then at the end you realize oh it wasn't saver tooth at all.
1:03:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's like a really a lot of really fun ways to to use this character but you pair him up with someone who has like dead powers and you amplify him.
1:03:18
[SPEAKER_01]: What does this guy look like if Fabian Cortez gives him a boost?
1:03:21
[SPEAKER_01]: What does he do if he teams up with dead girl?
1:03:24
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some really interesting potential for Dead Ringer because he's largely a blank slate.
1:03:28
[SPEAKER_01]: He also might have been lying about everything he said.
1:03:32
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some version of him where he just was like the boyfriend who fell in love and made the deal with the demon to try to keep Mike Farrell's attention on himself.
1:03:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we have any resonant thoughts on Dead Ringer or what it was like to go back to these old Greenwald cap stories?
1:03:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say he's definitely pretending to be somebody else in that police station.
1:03:49
[SPEAKER_00]: The art definitely gives us that away.
1:03:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a lot we can't trust about him I really like the idea that he first became an animal and had to deal with that idea But obviously that's probably just a lie But who knows maybe the story about his father was just another one of the stories about how the Joker got his scars I touched my mouth at once so
1:04:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I touched my dad once and he was so cold and hard and I turned right into him.
1:04:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I was wearing his clothes and everything and then I thought, what happens if I go to funerals?
1:04:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I can cut out obituaries and touch all the dead people I want.
1:04:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I can pose as them as gay and gay clubs later.
1:04:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be a great time.
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something there's some weird shit with this character.
1:04:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's okay to end this in time supporting it as Mike just going you told me this was gross to you, man Like what the fuck you didn't tell me about your repertoire being a subgarb oxville of severed fingers And then he says those aren't fingers
1:04:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Karen thoughts?
1:04:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I got it.
1:04:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the Lou Dexter story is far from over and I like your point, he would do really well in the mode of verse.
1:04:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I got also to see him sort of like being the main sort of antagonist of a big line-wide crossover sort of like McCrosha or something where it's just like, yeah, he finds the way to like tune his powers up because he like wants to impress somebody, some guy, and
1:05:04
[SPEAKER_00]: with the man with a peacock tattoo had so much dead mutant flesh just lying around.
1:05:09
[SPEAKER_00]: That's still out there.
1:05:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what would sister do with this guy's powers?
1:05:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's some crazy stories with power circuits and all kinds of stuff that could be done.
1:05:17
[SPEAKER_01]: He's never fought the X-Men.
1:05:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We have very little except for that time.
1:05:19
[SPEAKER_01]: He fought the resistance.
1:05:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But he may not even be a mutant.
1:05:22
[SPEAKER_01]: He just kind of just...
1:05:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I know there's no like me.
1:05:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he's probably a mutant, but there's no confirmation.
1:05:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, my friends, thus is the dead ringer episode, the gimmick villain for all gimmick villains because we got to tell you about a whole bunch of different gimmick villains and jump into all sorts of non-exman Marvel history from Porcupine to the night flyer to the blue streak to Cheetah.
1:05:42
[SPEAKER_01]: A great time, love hanging out with you both.
1:05:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to hear any final thoughts.
1:05:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I had so much fun just being nerds in like reading old campy dialogue with you today.
1:05:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll follow the show at Grimmalken under score lane on Instagram.
1:05:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Over on the main show, the trial coming out at the end of the month for March will be the trials, the joint trials of Stiltman and Rampage, which is how we're ending gimmick month on the Grimmalken lane show.
1:06:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Final thoughts.
1:06:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say that I'm very thankful to Karen for remembering to point out who designed all these characters That is wonderful.
1:06:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You are an artis artist.
1:06:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You if you are listening to this you can find me You can technically find me on Blue Sky at Howdy Duda.
1:06:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's H-O-W-D-Y-D-U-D-A
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't been on there as frequently as I may be ought to.
1:06:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You can also find me by listening to that upcoming Stiltman and Rampage episode.
1:06:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be on the Stiltman segment.
1:06:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm looking forward to that.
1:06:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, we were going to talk today about another person that we're not talking about.
1:06:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just wanted to point out that I really couldn't stop saying his name is Phone Ranger, because we were also talking about Dead Ranger.
1:06:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But Phone Ranger and there was this dance.
1:06:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk more about phone ranger and other time.
1:06:46
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, Steve Orlando brought phone ranger into some recent infinity comics, and he's canonically an avenger now, which is a crazy thing to say, just wild.
1:06:57
[SPEAKER_01]: This man has a phone for like a head piece that's just a large giant telephone.
1:07:02
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get there another time.
1:07:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, again,
1:07:05
[SPEAKER_02]: charm garden on pretty much the social media landscape charm gardens.com is my website.
1:07:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that this might be dropping after mocha fest in New York where I'll be tabling, but then in April, I will be up in Portland, Maine at the public arts, Maine, Portland, Camp.
1:07:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Comic Show is very fun and then got a whole bunch of other conventions that I'll be going through
1:07:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Throughout the year, not sure what kind of new things will have this year, but I'm sure I'll manage to get some fan art out there.
1:07:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I do need to reprint my cerebral character file V number one and that may be getting an updated version, but, you know, if I don't by the time you listen to this, you can scold me.
1:07:52
[SPEAKER_01]: The delightful time to just hang out with you both.
1:07:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for your time and talents today.
1:07:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And for the homework that it takes to do these little tip like a deep dive episode.
1:08:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hope this brought everyone some smiles.
1:08:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Please take care of yourselves in this crazy world.
1:08:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Living joyfully is an act of defiance and find your safe spaces and keep breathing.