Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / The State of American Sports Betting

Transcript

The State of American Sports Betting · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast from the Volume Podcast Network.
0:14
Speaker 1: I Am Chad Mellman. NFL season is starting in six weeks,
0:22
Speaker 1: which means everybody is wondering can I bet legally in
0:27
Speaker 1: my state? Because, in case you haven't noticed, over the
0:30
Speaker 1: past three years, there has been a rapid expansion of
0:35
Speaker 1: sports betting across the United States. Not only has it
0:40
Speaker 1: been great for your friends here at the Action Network
0:44
Speaker 1: and our corporate overlords at Better Collective, but it has
0:49
Speaker 1: been a boon of employment opportunities for all of us
0:54
Speaker 1: who have always thought, if only sports betting were legit,
0:59
Speaker 1: I could spend my life focused on stuff like this.
1:05
Speaker 1: So not only does our good friends Simon Hunter, my
1:09
Speaker 1: co host, my bff, my companion, get to make a
1:14
Speaker 1: living as a legitimate sports better in his home states
1:19
Speaker 1: of New Jersey and Pennsylvania, but a very good friend,
1:23
Speaker 1: Ryan Butler, who has spent his career tracking the legalization
1:27
Speaker 1: of sports betting UH and now does it for us
1:30
Speaker 1: at the Action Network, is going to come on because
1:33
Speaker 1: consider this episode of the podcast. Consider this your get right,
1:39
Speaker 1: get smart moment. This is going to be the thirty
1:42
Speaker 1: forty minutes you need to truly understand, can I bet
1:46
Speaker 1: legally in my state? If not? Will I be able
1:48
Speaker 1: to bet legally my state by football? If not, when
1:52
Speaker 1: will I be able to legally bet on sports in
1:54
Speaker 1: my state? If not, will I ever be able to
1:58
Speaker 1: bet legally on sports in my state? Ryan covers it
2:02
Speaker 1: all for the Action Network. It is the most comprehensive
2:07
Speaker 1: coverage of legalized sports betting in the country. No one
2:13
Speaker 1: does it better than Ryan is quart of what we do. Simon,
2:16
Speaker 1: how excited are you that Ryan is on the podcast?
2:19
Speaker 1: I love it. Uh. I definitely have already picked his
2:22
Speaker 1: brain a bunch before you even started, because I just
2:24
Speaker 1: have so many questions, like everyone. Um. I just laughed
2:27
Speaker 1: at myself jad thinking about what was it four years
2:30
Speaker 1: ago that the Supreme Courts ruled on it? And I
2:34
Speaker 1: just not that I'm so forward thinking, but I remember
2:36
Speaker 1: just talking to the guys in Las Vegas and telling
2:38
Speaker 1: them like, not that I'm at here, but pretty much
2:41
Speaker 1: staying to them, this is the end of all everyone
2:43
Speaker 1: living here in Vegas, Like, we can go live wherever
2:46
Speaker 1: we want now and on nearveryone. New Jersey was the
2:49
Speaker 1: first one approved that I said to them, this will
2:51
Speaker 1: be the wild West and to this day, New Jersey
2:54
Speaker 1: still have all the states, the craziest state of all
2:57
Speaker 1: the states for Gamelan. I mean literally I have twenty
2:59
Speaker 1: two sports books on my phone. Twenty two. So it's
3:03
Speaker 1: just it's truly if you're a gambler, if you're a
3:06
Speaker 1: sports bettor, it's paradise. It's like my instead of me
3:09
Speaker 1: only even five six sports books that would take my action.
3:12
Speaker 1: In Las Vegas, I literally have twenty sports books and
3:14
Speaker 1: New Jersey that well, So it's truly a magical time
3:17
Speaker 1: as a gambler. Well, listen, you are ahead of it.
3:20
Speaker 1: Clearly I was ahead of it. Were uh you know,
3:24
Speaker 1: we launched action in I left. I left ESPN in
3:28
Speaker 1: September of seventeen. I can tell you exactly the time frame.
3:33
Speaker 1: They legalized sports betting in May of January of two
3:38
Speaker 1: thou eighteen. That is when it's not even three It's
3:41
Speaker 1: barely three years when the Supreme Court overturned to the
3:44
Speaker 1: Professional Amateur Sports Protection Act, right and they made it
3:49
Speaker 1: legal for any state to authorize sports betting if they
3:53
Speaker 1: chose to do so. Obviously, New Jersey was the one
3:56
Speaker 1: that brought the suit, and New Jersey was the one
3:58
Speaker 1: that had the first chance to legal life sports betting.
4:00
Speaker 1: They were ready to roll. UM. I remember exactly where
4:05
Speaker 1: I was, UH when it was decided, and I want
4:08
Speaker 1: to get Ryan's take on this. Will bring him in
4:10
Speaker 1: a second. It was decided that the Supreme Court would
4:14
Speaker 1: hear the case. It was June of two thousand seventeen.
4:19
Speaker 1: I had already started talking to Mike Kerrns of the
4:22
Speaker 1: Churning Group UH and about them wanting to launch what
4:28
Speaker 1: would become Action. It didn't never name yet, didn't have
4:30
Speaker 1: anything yet, and they were asking me if I was
4:33
Speaker 1: interested in leaving ESPN to join them and do it,
4:36
Speaker 1: And of course I was like, it was everything that
4:38
Speaker 1: I had always wanted to do with ESPN that ESPN
4:41
Speaker 1: just was never going to get to. UM still still
4:43
Speaker 1: not really getting to and UM only they wanted to
4:48
Speaker 1: do it in a much bigger, broader, smarter way than
4:50
Speaker 1: I could have ever possibly imagined. But I was still
4:53
Speaker 1: hesitate about it, and I was what I was in
4:56
Speaker 1: New York City. I was in the city for meetings
4:59
Speaker 1: from you know when in in Connecticut, and I was
5:01
Speaker 1: walking through the Time Warner Center in New York City,
5:07
Speaker 1: and uh, I got an alert on my phone that
5:10
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court had decided to hear the case, and
5:13
Speaker 1: I immediately texted Currents and said, Wow, this just got
5:16
Speaker 1: a lot more interesting. And I remember thinking to myself,
5:21
Speaker 1: there's three things get that can happen, and two thirds
5:24
Speaker 1: of the things that can happen are good for sports betting. One,
5:27
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court takes the case and they decide, you
5:30
Speaker 1: know what, the case has no merit. We're rejecting it.
5:34
Speaker 1: Every every court that has decided against overturning past but
5:39
Speaker 1: is right, and nothing changes. Blah blah blah. Part two,
5:43
Speaker 1: New Jersey gets it, and then all of a sudden,
5:46
Speaker 1: every other state has a roadmap to how to legalize
5:48
Speaker 1: sports betting because New Jersey has set the roadmap. Three,
5:52
Speaker 1: they overturned past but completely. I thought number two had
5:55
Speaker 1: the biggest chance. I thought number three had the next
5:57
Speaker 1: biggest chance. I didn't really think they to slap it
6:00
Speaker 1: down completely. So in reality had at least a two
6:03
Speaker 1: thirds chance, which is honestly why I decided to leave
6:06
Speaker 1: ESPN is because I thought, all right, the Preme Court
6:09
Speaker 1: is going to hear this case in six months. There's
6:12
Speaker 1: a pretty good chance at least two thirds. I played
6:15
Speaker 1: the odds. That was basically it. Uh, Ryan Butler, when
6:20
Speaker 1: you saw the Supreme Court was going to hear the
6:24
Speaker 1: case in two thousand and seventeen, what were you thinking, Yeah, well,
6:28
Speaker 1: so you mentioned that the first scenario the worst case scenario.
6:32
Speaker 1: The good thing about the Supreme Court when you were
6:34
Speaker 1: kind of reading the tea leaves is when they take
6:36
Speaker 1: up a case like that, it means that they have
6:39
Speaker 1: a reason for doing so. They're not taking it up
6:41
Speaker 1: just to swat it down. Now, maybe a content of
6:43
Speaker 1: a very controversial issue, but no one was really overly
6:46
Speaker 1: too concerned about sports betting. Um. It was a really
6:49
Speaker 1: great you know, that was obviously great news that Also, remember, Chad,
6:52
Speaker 1: what I was really sold was December um of that
6:55
Speaker 1: year when they heard oral arguments, UM, and some of
6:59
Speaker 1: the best Supreme Court of are yours ever during Ted
7:04
Speaker 1: Stevens u s Artisan Ted Olson. Ted Stevens, a senator,
7:07
Speaker 1: spoke for it, and it was pretty clear that the
7:11
Speaker 1: Court was going to rule in that favor. So it
7:12
Speaker 1: was really for me, my big like, ah, this is happening.
7:16
Speaker 1: Was December and then it was just a matter of
7:18
Speaker 1: time when they released it in May. But I do
7:20
Speaker 1: remember those months leading up to it was like, okay,
7:22
Speaker 1: it was maybe the last decision they announced that year
7:25
Speaker 1: was one of the very last, so a little nerve,
7:27
Speaker 1: but it was a really good sign. Even back then.
7:30
Speaker 1: My favorite parts when they used to talk about the money,
7:32
Speaker 1: because nowadays we see Darren tweets it out every month,
7:36
Speaker 1: we cannot even imagine, I mean, how much the amount
7:39
Speaker 1: of money nowadays it's people are gonna say, it's a lot.
7:42
Speaker 1: It's it's so far ahead of where they even expected
7:45
Speaker 1: just three years ago that that's what the growth. That's
7:47
Speaker 1: gonna be the craziest part watching this thing grow, because
7:50
Speaker 1: it's still one of these things that it's just been
7:52
Speaker 1: growing at such a rate that you know, people always asking, go, well,
7:56
Speaker 1: why the number is so high in New Jersey? People
7:58
Speaker 1: are betting so much money in New Jersey? Is it
7:59
Speaker 1: because people are coming from New York Again? I think
8:02
Speaker 1: people are going to realize that even when New York
8:04
Speaker 1: legalized that people, people are still gonna become a New
8:06
Speaker 1: Jersey because there's so many more options in New Jersey. So,
8:09
Speaker 1: like Ryan's gonna talk about each state, some states are
8:11
Speaker 1: screwing this up. They're not really doing it the smartest
8:14
Speaker 1: way and it's gonna affect their bottom line because states
8:17
Speaker 1: like New Jersey, where it's the world West, our growth
8:20
Speaker 1: is just gonna keep happening. People are gonna keep coming
8:22
Speaker 1: here to bet just because it's so open. Yeah, look,
8:25
Speaker 1: you're a right, And there's a couple of things I
8:27
Speaker 1: want Ryan to answer before we dig in deep this
8:31
Speaker 1: this I The idea for this podcast was of course
8:33
Speaker 1: from Matt Mitchell, who's a genius. And my prediction is
8:38
Speaker 1: that this will be one of those podcasts that people
8:43
Speaker 1: listen to for the next two years, like trying to
8:46
Speaker 1: get smart about sports betting. It's going to have a
8:49
Speaker 1: ton of utility, a ton of value for people who
8:51
Speaker 1: are trying to figure this out and what this means
8:54
Speaker 1: for them as fans and its potential betters over the
8:56
Speaker 1: long term. Uh Simon. There was a story an Esquire
9:02
Speaker 1: in early or late in two thousand nineteen that indicated
9:08
Speaker 1: of the handle in New Jersey came within two miles
9:13
Speaker 1: of the state line of New York, which basically said
9:16
Speaker 1: everybody was coming across the state uh to bet in
9:19
Speaker 1: the parking lots of the supermarkets on the other side
9:23
Speaker 1: of the George Washington Bridge, or you know, just outside
9:26
Speaker 1: the Path train in Hoboken, which when we were in
9:30
Speaker 1: Manhattan with our offices for Action Network, That's what we
9:32
Speaker 1: did at lunch. We would jump in the path and
9:35
Speaker 1: we would go across the go across the river and
9:37
Speaker 1: New Jersey City and Hoboken. We'd stopped at a diner
9:40
Speaker 1: on right outside the path train. Four of us would
9:43
Speaker 1: sit in a booth. We would not talk to each
9:45
Speaker 1: other for an hour. We would just sit there on
9:47
Speaker 1: our phones, go to every single sports book, make the
9:49
Speaker 1: best we want to make, have launch, and then get
9:51
Speaker 1: back on the train. Um. But before Ryan, before we
9:54
Speaker 1: get to that, you are covering sports betting from the
9:59
Speaker 1: legaliz your perspective, it is a very niche subject. How
10:05
Speaker 1: do you end up doing that? Um? But honestly, it
10:09
Speaker 1: was the sad less interesting story was It was an
10:13
Speaker 1: indeed ad that first got me interested in it. Um No,
10:16
Speaker 1: I've been following along with it. I've been doing sports
10:19
Speaker 1: and government for about ten years. I'm leading up to
10:23
Speaker 1: sort of the writing on the wall we were talking
10:25
Speaker 1: about with the pass but repeal the Spreme Court decision
10:28
Speaker 1: done a little bit of both. Um. Chase some members
10:30
Speaker 1: of Congress around and wasn't as glamorous as it sounds,
10:33
Speaker 1: I've been, you know, covered sports at different levels, high school, college, professional,
10:38
Speaker 1: you know, anything I could do. I bounced to a
10:39
Speaker 1: lot of different publications, but I saw this opportunity. Um
10:43
Speaker 1: it was with gambling dot Com group. Uh, looking through
10:47
Speaker 1: it and it was just, you know, I thought, this
10:49
Speaker 1: is something I could really do. I'm interested in this.
10:51
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good at retaining all the different nuances and
10:54
Speaker 1: different states. I joked Chad that I was one of
10:57
Speaker 1: those kids that was really in the dinhasa wars going up,
11:00
Speaker 1: and we would go to like museums and stuff, and
11:03
Speaker 1: I would like point out corrections to like the museum
11:05
Speaker 1: where they were wrong things like that. You know. I
11:08
Speaker 1: was that I was into Pokemon, where I could kind
11:10
Speaker 1: of memorize all their little powers and different stuff like that.
11:13
Speaker 1: And I think this kind of comes in hand being
11:16
Speaker 1: now where it is. It's fifty states with fifty different
11:20
Speaker 1: laws and fifty very different political realities, different goals, different
11:25
Speaker 1: really everything. So I think that has helped where it's
11:28
Speaker 1: a good bounce. I'm definitely better at maybe memorizing trivial
11:32
Speaker 1: facts than reporting or writing. So you had that all
11:36
Speaker 1: together a little experience and some interest in sports gambling.
11:40
Speaker 1: I think it's worked out pretty well. Personally. I think
11:43
Speaker 1: it's worked out amazing and you appreciate it. And in
11:45
Speaker 1: getting ahead of it all that, you mentioned two things, um,
11:52
Speaker 1: Pokemon and dinosaurs. Pokemon and dinosas the disparities Simon's got
11:56
Speaker 1: a Pokemon CARDI can sell you for four hundred thousand
11:58
Speaker 1: dollars um. But the disparities in the way the States
12:04
Speaker 1: are going about it. But before you get to that,
12:06
Speaker 1: I have one follow up, which is which is how
12:12
Speaker 1: are you seeing people react to the idea of being
12:17
Speaker 1: a reporter that focuses on sports betting even in the
12:21
Speaker 1: past three years. I mean you started with Action less
12:25
Speaker 1: than a year ago, um, and had been writing for
12:29
Speaker 1: us before that. But in the past three years, how
12:31
Speaker 1: have people been responding to the idea that there is
12:34
Speaker 1: a legit beat to be had here. Yeah, it's kind
12:38
Speaker 1: of goes into two ways. UM. One of them, people
12:40
Speaker 1: are usually just like, oh, kind of surprise and mildly interested.
12:45
Speaker 1: A lot of people people bet all the time. There
12:47
Speaker 1: was it's just such a you know, it was such
12:50
Speaker 1: a misconception that they weren't. Every sports bar you go
12:53
Speaker 1: into and This is really even before widespread legalization, people
12:57
Speaker 1: are talking about their bets. They really are. You know,
13:00
Speaker 1: it's been that way. Maybe it's a little more easier,
13:02
Speaker 1: but it's also in some ways it's just as simple
13:04
Speaker 1: as it's always been. There are thousands of other betting opportunities.
13:07
Speaker 1: We're now just focused on these legal ones that are regulated,
13:10
Speaker 1: that can help the customer, that can be better for everybody.
13:13
Speaker 1: So there's that, and then it ties into the second
13:15
Speaker 1: group where even my closest friends are kind of like,
13:17
Speaker 1: how do you For a lot of reasons, they go,
13:20
Speaker 1: how do you have a job, And they go like, well,
13:23
Speaker 1: I can. I live in Florida now where sports betting
13:26
Speaker 1: is not legal, But they go, what do you mean
13:27
Speaker 1: sports betting is not legal? I have app X, Y,
13:30
Speaker 1: and Z that I can bet on all the time.
13:32
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, that's you know, you can do that,
13:35
Speaker 1: but it's technically not legal, And try to explain why
13:38
Speaker 1: you know this is you know that the legal market
13:41
Speaker 1: could benefit them, what's the importance of it, And then
13:43
Speaker 1: trying to get into the Florida scenario, which is you know,
13:46
Speaker 1: something of its own podcasts and it kind of lose
13:48
Speaker 1: them there. But Yeah, it's I'd say for the most part,
13:50
Speaker 1: it's been pretty good, if not, if not some confused
13:54
Speaker 1: reactions and several respects. UM, I want to ask when
13:59
Speaker 1: we're question, and then I let Simon jump in. Uh,
14:05
Speaker 1: the political reality of how each state is going about
14:10
Speaker 1: it makes covering this incredibly complicated. What are you seeing
14:17
Speaker 1: in how states that are deciding to legalize sports betting?
14:23
Speaker 1: How are they going about it? Well, I guess how
14:27
Speaker 1: are they going about it? One of the biggest things
14:31
Speaker 1: you look at is economic driver politically, is that maybe
14:35
Speaker 1: the biggest motivation? UM, I kind of look at it.
14:38
Speaker 1: I really think, not to get too deep in the
14:40
Speaker 1: political weeds, I really look at I think the Republican
14:43
Speaker 1: and Democratic parties, which by the way, that we've had
14:46
Speaker 1: bipartisan support for every sports betting bill passed in the country.
14:49
Speaker 1: Each of those two parties is really two wings of
14:52
Speaker 1: their own party. And the Republican Party, you have one
14:55
Speaker 1: group that is more fiscally oriented, business oriented, and one
14:58
Speaker 1: group has more focused on so social issues things like that.
15:01
Speaker 1: And in the Democrat party, similar kind of divide. One
15:03
Speaker 1: that's maybe a little more business stuff like that, and
15:06
Speaker 1: one a little more focused on social issues. The key
15:08
Speaker 1: has been those two more central kind of economic, business
15:13
Speaker 1: oriented focus groups coming together and creating these bills. So politically,
15:17
Speaker 1: that's been the ramification um. One of the best examples
15:20
Speaker 1: is Tennessee, politically very conservative state, a lot of religious
15:24
Speaker 1: opposition to any form of gambling, one of the few
15:26
Speaker 1: states without any casinos or horse tracks. Uh, there was
15:29
Speaker 1: the business leadership that really kind of helped spark this. Again. Uh,
15:32
Speaker 1: sports betting, these are big numbers and handle they're not
15:35
Speaker 1: gonna change or state budgets. You know, New York State,
15:38
Speaker 1: for example, has a two hundred billion dollar budget. Legalizing
15:42
Speaker 1: sports betting is not going to change a whole lot
15:44
Speaker 1: there for them and their budget, but it is an option,
15:47
Speaker 1: and it's still money that they're losing in New York's case,
15:49
Speaker 1: to New Jersey, or money they're losing offshore. So really
15:52
Speaker 1: anything is a benefit there and that's been one of
15:54
Speaker 1: the biggest pushes that plus just the reality that everyone
15:57
Speaker 1: is doing this. The American Gaming Association a four past
16:00
Speaker 1: the estimated a hundred and fifty billion dollars has wagered
16:03
Speaker 1: illegally in the US every year. That number is way off.
16:06
Speaker 1: It's significantly more. We don't know what the actual number is,
16:10
Speaker 1: but it's significantly more than a hundred and fifty billion dollars.
16:13
Speaker 1: But you extrapolate that across the fifty states, that's still money.
16:16
Speaker 1: You know, it might be a drop in the bucket
16:18
Speaker 1: for a state budget, but several hundred several million dollars
16:22
Speaker 1: or New York's case for example, where they're estimating five
16:25
Speaker 1: million dollars, that still means a lot. So that's really
16:28
Speaker 1: been the biggest driver is if you can come across
16:31
Speaker 1: that now real quick. Also, the biggest obstacle is I
16:35
Speaker 1: would say forty states are going to legalize at some point.
16:38
Speaker 1: But the biggest key now for the states that haven't
16:41
Speaker 1: are who gets it? Is it gonna be? You know
16:44
Speaker 1: which entity? Is it gonna be lottery? Is there gonna
16:46
Speaker 1: be the casinos? Is gonna be the horse tracks? Is
16:48
Speaker 1: it going to be all of them? Is there going
16:49
Speaker 1: to be none of them? Dividing that up and figuring
16:52
Speaker 1: that out is really maybe the biggest stumbling block. We
16:54
Speaker 1: can talk a little bit more from what would stop. Really,
16:58
Speaker 1: forty states have the political call, at least have the
17:00
Speaker 1: political juice to get this done. Speaking of juice, ran
17:04
Speaker 1: I have a juicy off here from our friends are
17:06
Speaker 1: at FanDuel Finals are finally here. If Vandel sports Book
17:09
Speaker 1: has a championship are few don't want to miss because
17:12
Speaker 1: during the Finals New Year's just get thirty to one
17:13
Speaker 1: on Sons or the Bucks to win the next game.
17:16
Speaker 1: That means you go in a hundred and fifty dollars
17:18
Speaker 1: on a five dollar bet. So for me, I'll be
17:20
Speaker 1: bet in the Bucks in game six. With Vandol sports Book.
17:23
Speaker 1: There's always more to win Vandel during the NBA Finals
17:26
Speaker 1: and when you do win, getting your money as a layup.
17:28
Speaker 1: They'll getting paid in as little as twenty four hours.
17:30
Speaker 1: Just sign up with Promo Code Favorites to bet the
17:32
Speaker 1: NBA Finals with thirty to one odds. Once again, that's
17:35
Speaker 1: Promo Code Favorites. They get thirty one odds bet either
17:38
Speaker 1: team to win the next game, exclusively only on FanDuel
17:42
Speaker 1: sports Book. App must be twenty one plus and present
17:44
Speaker 1: in Colorado, Indiana, New Jersey or Virginia. Must waderke designated
17:47
Speaker 1: offer market. Ten dollar first deposit required, hundred fifty max bonus.
17:51
Speaker 1: See full terms at sports books dot vandel dot com.
17:54
Speaker 1: Gambling problem called five to two four seven zero zero Colorado,
17:59
Speaker 1: nine with It Indiana and went on Your Gambler in
18:00
Speaker 1: New Jersey of Virginia. And speaking of legal sports betting,
18:04
Speaker 1: it has become so mainstream. Where I became professional, inn
18:09
Speaker 1: I didn't tell anyone what I did outside of like
18:12
Speaker 1: close friends or relatives. Probably until the last year or two.
18:15
Speaker 1: It was just very something you didn't talk about. And
18:18
Speaker 1: then if you did talk about, only guys would think
18:20
Speaker 1: it's cool. Women would run away from it. Guys would
18:22
Speaker 1: be like, oh, like, well, who do you think is
18:24
Speaker 1: gonna win tonight? The filing of their braves, And it's like,
18:26
Speaker 1: I don't know, it doesn't really work like that. Like
18:28
Speaker 1: I have friends dads who never placed a bed in
18:30
Speaker 1: their life, and the guy's a Mets fan. He's betting now,
18:33
Speaker 1: Like anytime to Ground starts, this guy's going into his
18:35
Speaker 1: Draft Kings app. He's making bets again. FanDuel, this is
18:38
Speaker 1: a little bit of a selfish question. Why is fandel
18:41
Speaker 1: not public yet? Like all these other companies have become
18:44
Speaker 1: public and I've I've just wondered FanDuel to me, they're
18:47
Speaker 1: one of the best apps. They're growing huge too, Like
18:49
Speaker 1: they've really blown up in Michigan like all these other
18:52
Speaker 1: companies Republic, why is Fandel not stepped up become a
18:54
Speaker 1: public trading company. Yeah. FanDuel is owned by a massive
18:58
Speaker 1: European conglomerate, a Flutter Entertainment, which also owns Patty Power
19:02
Speaker 1: and bet Fair, which are two of the biggest brands
19:05
Speaker 1: in Europe. Now there's a lot of talk and they're
19:07
Speaker 1: gonna spin them off, and that's probably going to happen
19:10
Speaker 1: that they become a US based spinoff of publicly traded company.
19:13
Speaker 1: Right now, it's just a lot of politics, logistical issues.
19:16
Speaker 1: They're having some leadership changes, some different ideas. They're trying
19:19
Speaker 1: to figure out what to do. The market is so rapid.
19:21
Speaker 1: I again, I'm not that they necessarily can't say I
19:25
Speaker 1: know anything um that anyone else doesn't know about Flutter
19:27
Speaker 1: and their their long term plans of Vanduel, But yeah, FanDuel,
19:30
Speaker 1: that's the reason why Draftings is its own company and
19:33
Speaker 1: fan Duel is not right now, it's just because it's
19:35
Speaker 1: part of a larger conglomerate and they just aren't really
19:37
Speaker 1: moving at the moment. And one more selfic question, our
19:40
Speaker 1: neighbors to the north, what's happened with Canada? You think
19:42
Speaker 1: Canada will have full on sports, single game sports betting
19:45
Speaker 1: by the NFL season or is that going to be
19:47
Speaker 1: delayed because some of that's followed their government closely. God,
19:50
Speaker 1: they take forever. Every every little thing takes a month.
19:53
Speaker 1: So I'm just wondering, are they gonna have betting before
19:56
Speaker 1: the NFL season. Yeah, Canada is not too much different
19:58
Speaker 1: than the US in that respect. Takes a long time. Now,
20:01
Speaker 1: I'm optimistic they have at all of intentions of getting
20:03
Speaker 1: it done similar to the US. Uh, state by state,
20:06
Speaker 1: They're gonna be province by province. But there's a lot
20:08
Speaker 1: of talk that Ontario, which is the about I think
20:11
Speaker 1: a fourth of the population that's um Toronto, a lot
20:14
Speaker 1: of the you know, the closest um windsor there's a
20:17
Speaker 1: lot of optimism that they'll be live um and there's
20:19
Speaker 1: also British Columbia, which is Vancouver, so I would see
20:22
Speaker 1: I think most provinces will be live by the end
20:24
Speaker 1: of the year. Well we see something. Uh. The one
20:27
Speaker 1: thing I'll say about FanDuel Sigmon is there's a pretty
20:31
Speaker 1: intense legal negotiation going on and this is public between
20:38
Speaker 1: Fox Bet and Flutter over Fox Bets ownership Steak of
20:42
Speaker 1: Fan Duel, and I think that is because they have
20:46
Speaker 1: one currently and I think determining their value, the value
20:50
Speaker 1: of that ownership steak uh and what fox Bets involvement
20:54
Speaker 1: would be going forward. I think it's a big hold
20:57
Speaker 1: up as to why Van Duel hasn't gone public. Get Ryan,
21:00
Speaker 1: you can correct me if I'm wrong. No, that's a
21:02
Speaker 1: great point. I don't even bring up with it. I
21:04
Speaker 1: think one other thing to look at is with this
21:07
Speaker 1: New York bid, there is also this idea that maybe
21:11
Speaker 1: had resolving this first and having them together, figuring out
21:15
Speaker 1: what that relationship is might be a piece in that
21:18
Speaker 1: bid as well. So those are all key things they're
21:20
Speaker 1: going to be looking into before Fan Duel separating self.
21:23
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be that's I'm just so interesting because
21:25
Speaker 1: I'm heavily invested in DraftKings already and to me like
21:28
Speaker 1: them in FanDuel Vandel is gonna be one of the
21:31
Speaker 1: first in Florida, They'll be one of the first in
21:32
Speaker 1: New York, They'll be one of the first Connecticut. That's
21:34
Speaker 1: a big deal because it's all setting up for California.
21:37
Speaker 1: We know that's the Golden Goose is California. I mean,
21:40
Speaker 1: people think New Jersey's numbers are crazy. It's gonna be
21:43
Speaker 1: a monthly billions of dollars in California. That's I feel
21:46
Speaker 1: like it's and again we're talking about these these politicians
21:49
Speaker 1: dragging their feet. The whole thing in California has just
21:51
Speaker 1: blown my mind because that's a state that needs money
21:55
Speaker 1: and literally we're talking monthly billions of dollars being left
21:58
Speaker 1: on the table. So what's your long term view with California. Yeah,
22:02
Speaker 1: California has a retail only sports betting ballot measure coming
22:07
Speaker 1: up in So assuming that passes, which I think it has.
22:11
Speaker 1: Every single ballot, every single sports betting ballot measure in
22:14
Speaker 1: the country has passed in every state that's done it,
22:16
Speaker 1: So I'm optimistic that will happen. That means retail sports
22:21
Speaker 1: books will launch. Three online sports books, could be six,
22:28
Speaker 1: could be later. That is a whole different logistical issue.
22:31
Speaker 1: So California is gonna it's gonna be a mess. And also,
22:34
Speaker 1: unfortunately some time and I do have to say Vanduel
22:36
Speaker 1: is coming to Connecticut. Good news for Chad that will
22:39
Speaker 1: be they will be live in the fall. That that's
22:41
Speaker 1: every indication that's good to go. New York and Florida
22:44
Speaker 1: are not guarantees. They are both interested. Neither of them
22:48
Speaker 1: are guarantees, and we can maybe dive into each of
22:50
Speaker 1: those states more if you're interested. But there's a lot
22:53
Speaker 1: of hold ups there as well. Well, let's let's do this,
22:55
Speaker 1: because I do think we we've sort of spun ahead
22:58
Speaker 1: quicker than I think we plan to. I think right
23:01
Speaker 1: now level set foundationally as you can, and I would
23:07
Speaker 1: remind everybody go to Action network dot com. In the
23:11
Speaker 1: navigation there is a tab legalization tracker. It's so easy.
23:18
Speaker 1: It's got all of Ryan's work. He updates on a
23:22
Speaker 1: constant basis about what is happening in every state, every
23:26
Speaker 1: bill that has passed, every measure that comes up for vote,
23:30
Speaker 1: every time something flips the switch, some state flips the switch,
23:33
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, sports betting is legal in
23:35
Speaker 1: that state. All of it easy to find in a
23:39
Speaker 1: color coded map in the legalization tracker at Action network
23:44
Speaker 1: dot Com. Check it out. But for those people who
23:48
Speaker 1: don't want to use their fingers to get to the
23:51
Speaker 1: legalization tracker, Ryan tell people right now where sports betting
23:57
Speaker 1: is legal on line, meaning you can sit within your
24:03
Speaker 1: house unfettered. You don't have to go anywhere, because I
24:07
Speaker 1: know there are sort of different nuances. I just want
24:11
Speaker 1: the places where you're sitting in your coach on Sunday
24:13
Speaker 1: afternoon you decide you want to be a better you
24:16
Speaker 1: can log on in bed. So you're ready for the
24:19
Speaker 1: list as of right now and whenever people start listening
24:22
Speaker 1: to this online remote sign up. Multiple options. All right, everybody,
24:27
Speaker 1: you ready? It is Colorado, Illinois, though you must go
24:31
Speaker 1: register in person if you haven't already, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan,
24:38
Speaker 1: Nevada again have to go register in person. New Hampshire,
24:42
Speaker 1: but you only have one sports book, which is DraftKings
24:45
Speaker 1: New Jersey, Oregon, which you only have one option, which
24:50
Speaker 1: is their Oregan lottery app called Scoreboard, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island,
24:57
Speaker 1: which only has one option, which is William Hill, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington,
25:03
Speaker 1: d C. Which only has two options, William Hill and
25:06
Speaker 1: bet MGM. And then they're also their lottery app, which
25:09
Speaker 1: is not great, which we've kind of become the joke
25:11
Speaker 1: of the industry. And then West Virginia, so I know
25:14
Speaker 1: I had to put little asterix on everything, but that's
25:16
Speaker 1: kind of how it is. There is no one is
25:21
Speaker 1: you know, consistent. There's always some differences, there's always a
25:24
Speaker 1: little nuanced or difference, but really your best networks real quick.
25:28
Speaker 1: If you are in Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia,
25:38
Speaker 1: now Washington, d C. In West Virginia, those are the
25:41
Speaker 1: ones you're really in your best shape right now. So
25:44
Speaker 1: that's what's amazing right ahead, That's what I was gonna say.
25:48
Speaker 1: It's like the more professionals ever in my life. I've
25:51
Speaker 1: moved to New Jersey and p A just because of
25:53
Speaker 1: what he just said. It's it's literally I'm a fifteen
25:57
Speaker 1: minute drive from p A. So again that means I
26:00
Speaker 1: have well over thirty five sports books I can make
26:02
Speaker 1: bets on right now. So it's just different where I
26:05
Speaker 1: can go up to New York, I can go down
26:07
Speaker 1: to Maryland and go to Delaware, go to p A,
26:09
Speaker 1: go to New Jersey. It's just there's so many options
26:12
Speaker 1: this little area where there's different parts of the country
26:13
Speaker 1: where you might only have one or two sports books
26:16
Speaker 1: for a thousand miles driven. So it's just very different
26:19
Speaker 1: where there's parts of the country that are very laggy
26:21
Speaker 1: where New Jersey. It's truly the wild West. There's just
26:24
Speaker 1: so many options. It's a you will never find a
26:27
Speaker 1: better time in history of a sports better than right now.
26:31
Speaker 1: It's it's just very interesting. Well, I would argue that
26:34
Speaker 1: you will find a better time because according to our
26:38
Speaker 1: math and Ryan's reporting and all the available data, there
26:43
Speaker 1: are currently eleven states slash districts, including d C, where
26:51
Speaker 1: you can generally have unfettered online sports betting, meaning you
26:56
Speaker 1: can sign up and I'm going to d C today. Uh,
27:00
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the new sports book at
27:02
Speaker 1: the Capital One Arena tomorrow. Um. And those are the
27:07
Speaker 1: only places where you can do it legally right now
27:10
Speaker 1: online without having to do in person registration. Uh. I
27:14
Speaker 1: forgot Elinoris. So it's really only ten that you can
27:17
Speaker 1: do it because Illinois I counted um, which and oh
27:22
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Just also clarify too. I know this is
27:25
Speaker 1: the great technical legalies. Washington d C has a lot
27:28
Speaker 1: of limits on its sports books, so just a heads
27:30
Speaker 1: up chat that it does. It is weird about where
27:32
Speaker 1: could be access. Also, you can't bet on federal grounds,
27:36
Speaker 1: which is like half of the city, so it gets
27:38
Speaker 1: really walky. So they maybe maybe they should be on
27:42
Speaker 1: a different list. They're not quite They're not as good
27:44
Speaker 1: as like a New Jersey. You can basically bet within
27:46
Speaker 1: three feet of Capital One Arena. And I know, and
27:51
Speaker 1: I go, you are saying, Chad, but I'm you are.
27:55
Speaker 1: I'm definitely a glass half full kind of person. But
27:58
Speaker 1: New Jersey ten years from now, there you might be
27:59
Speaker 1: only seven sports books or ten sports books left in Jersey.
28:02
Speaker 1: It's not gonna It just doesn't make sense that there's
28:05
Speaker 1: gonna be this many sports books long term. And again,
28:08
Speaker 1: like he just told you, there's there's different sports books
28:11
Speaker 1: where like certain states say they have two sports books.
28:14
Speaker 1: If I get banned from one online, what does that mean?
28:17
Speaker 1: Now I don't have any online sports books. So it
28:20
Speaker 1: is it's gonna get better. At the same time, it's
28:22
Speaker 1: gonna get harder where these companies are. Like again, there's
28:27
Speaker 1: certain sports books I came the bet their boost or
28:30
Speaker 1: do whatever, because they just they just don't let you
28:32
Speaker 1: do that. I'm not the layman. Even it's fifty dollars,
28:34
Speaker 1: They're not gonna let me get that down. So it
28:36
Speaker 1: is one of those where it's I just think we're there.
28:39
Speaker 1: The sports books haven't caught up to the pros yet
28:40
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. So for someone like me,
28:42
Speaker 1: this is just the best time ever where I do
28:45
Speaker 1: think in ten years it's not gonna be the way
28:48
Speaker 1: it is right now. It's not gonna be as easy
28:49
Speaker 1: to get down bets as is right now. Yeah, you
28:51
Speaker 1: are kids in the candy stores, like multiple candy stores.
28:55
Speaker 1: But Ryan, my point is there's ten eleven state slash
29:00
Speaker 1: districts where you can do this. The ease of use
29:03
Speaker 1: is high generally. Uh. We predict there will probably be
29:10
Speaker 1: states that ultimately legalized sports betting. UM over the next say,
29:17
Speaker 1: five to ten years. Can you tell me which means
29:23
Speaker 1: that the ceiling on this is still so so high?
29:27
Speaker 1: Like we got bought by a better collective for two
29:30
Speaker 1: and forty million dollars uh, based on the fact that
29:34
Speaker 1: last year there were a handful of these states that
29:39
Speaker 1: were legal, right, And they're making the bet that the
29:42
Speaker 1: more states that become legal, the higher the ceiling is
29:45
Speaker 1: on our revenue. Because of the business that we're in.
29:48
Speaker 1: I think they're making a pretty good bet. I'd like
29:50
Speaker 1: to continue to be in this business. Um, What states, Ryan,
29:57
Speaker 1: can we count on will have of legalized online registration
30:04
Speaker 1: betting in the fall, either by the time football starts
30:07
Speaker 1: or at some point before football lands. Yeah, so we
30:11
Speaker 1: got four more on the horizon we're watching this year.
30:14
Speaker 1: Maybe the best success story so far as in Arizona
30:16
Speaker 1: statewide mobile we're gonna have it looks like five six
30:19
Speaker 1: seven sports books. Live goal is September nine, the NFL
30:23
Speaker 1: seas an opener. They are the first one to really
30:26
Speaker 1: statewide mobile to really kind of put a date. That's
30:28
Speaker 1: looking really good. I would say very early NFL season,
30:31
Speaker 1: if not that season opener with multiple again multiple the
30:34
Speaker 1: big industry leaders are there, so that's good news. Connecticut,
30:38
Speaker 1: which is only going to have three um FanDuel DraftKings
30:41
Speaker 1: in a a third mystery sports book to be determined.
30:44
Speaker 1: They are also working really hard. They're looking good for
30:47
Speaker 1: retail and in person by the fall, so that's you
30:50
Speaker 1: know that again just limits. Then we have Louisiana and Maryland.
30:54
Speaker 1: Maryland is gonna both of them are going to have
30:57
Speaker 1: multiple options. Both are arguing this fall. Neither has a
31:01
Speaker 1: specific date. Louisiana is parish by parish, which is their
31:05
Speaker 1: county equivalent. Now it's all major metro areas in Louisiana
31:08
Speaker 1: for anyone listening there. So if you're in Baton, Rouge,
31:11
Speaker 1: New Orleans, Shreveport, anywhere like that, you'll be fine. Statewide
31:15
Speaker 1: mobile as well, so those are there, and then um,
31:17
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of retail options Nebraska, South Dakota,
31:20
Speaker 1: Wisconsin are all looking for retail. Oh and I you know,
31:25
Speaker 1: I forgot our friends out in Wyoming. Can't forget them.
31:28
Speaker 1: They are also looking at statewide mobile this fall. So
31:32
Speaker 1: we have five statewide mobile this fall, which is Arizona, Connecticut, Louisiana, Maryland,
31:36
Speaker 1: and Wyoming. Arizona is the only one that is mentioned
31:40
Speaker 1: a date. Every other one is sort of hoping sometime
31:43
Speaker 1: by football, if not during football. Correct. Arizona is the
31:46
Speaker 1: only one where the regulators are really putting a specific
31:49
Speaker 1: date out. I was wondering if you could tell us,
31:51
Speaker 1: as someone that does not trust the government at all,
31:54
Speaker 1: especially with my money, where can I go to find
31:56
Speaker 1: out what are they doing with this money that they're
31:58
Speaker 1: getting from all the gambling revenue? Because I know it
32:00
Speaker 1: is different state to state, right, it's not every state's
32:02
Speaker 1: not one hat fits all. Where you know, the whole
32:04
Speaker 1: marijuana thing about legalized are like well, we'll give all
32:06
Speaker 1: the money to schools and different things like that. What
32:09
Speaker 1: are they doing with this tax revenue, because we've seen
32:11
Speaker 1: New Jersey average a hundred million dollars a month of
32:14
Speaker 1: sports gambling. Where is that tax revenue going? Yeah, again,
32:18
Speaker 1: that is is all over the place. So one example
32:20
Speaker 1: is Colorado where they put it specifically for water conservation projects,
32:24
Speaker 1: kind of an interesting one. A lot of them. Education
32:26
Speaker 1: is a very popular one. That's Tennessee. Um, it can
32:30
Speaker 1: be all over the place. A lot of states made
32:32
Speaker 1: it with their general budget, which means they can put
32:35
Speaker 1: it to anything. Um. Just something to note is, again,
32:37
Speaker 1: we as an industry and we should be. It's great
32:40
Speaker 1: that there's legal that there's these options. That these are
32:42
Speaker 1: good is these are generating tax revenues. So we have
32:45
Speaker 1: had about sixty one billion dollars wagered you know, since
32:51
Speaker 1: and since past a day, which is great news. That
32:54
Speaker 1: is generated six hundred million or so dollars and taxes,
32:58
Speaker 1: which you know, again is great news. Is that six
33:00
Speaker 1: million dollars we didn't have otherwise. But to keep that
33:03
Speaker 1: in mind that most state budgets are you know, hundreds
33:06
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars by themselves, in New Jersey. New
33:10
Speaker 1: Jersey has generated about a hundred and fifty million. That's awesome,
33:13
Speaker 1: but in comparison, that's a small fraction of their overall budgets,
33:16
Speaker 1: So you know what that goes to. It just really
33:18
Speaker 1: depends on your state. It's usually good things roads, schools,
33:22
Speaker 1: maybe water conservation if you're in Colorado, stuff like that.
33:25
Speaker 1: But yeah, again, it really does change state I stay. Unfortunately,
33:28
Speaker 1: they're just not enough time to really kind of dive
33:30
Speaker 1: into where those text dollars are actually going and handle
33:34
Speaker 1: six hundred million in taxes not very much. So the
33:40
Speaker 1: argument and everybody was making when PASSA was overturned was
33:45
Speaker 1: state confers need help legalized sports betting, it will solve
33:50
Speaker 1: all ills. Clearly that is not the case. So looking forward,
33:56
Speaker 1: do you think that states will be le inclined to
34:00
Speaker 1: legalize because the boon that they expected isn't there. Will
34:05
Speaker 1: they be status quo? Will this have an impact? What
34:09
Speaker 1: do you think that's sort of the the ceiling on
34:12
Speaker 1: tax revenue return? What kind of impact does that have
34:16
Speaker 1: on people want to illegalize going forward? So it's definitely
34:19
Speaker 1: not going to really spark any more interest because it's
34:23
Speaker 1: not huge tax dollars, but it's also not really going
34:27
Speaker 1: to hurt it at this point. Again, it's still something
34:30
Speaker 1: which is again better than nothing. And one of the
34:33
Speaker 1: key things we also look at you brought I could
34:36
Speaker 1: have brought it up earlier. One of the political drivers
34:38
Speaker 1: is what are your neighbors doing, especially in states that
34:41
Speaker 1: share metro areas. Uh, New York the exception, which is
34:44
Speaker 1: kind of dragged their feet, but New Jersey and Pennsylvania
34:47
Speaker 1: and Delaware and Maryland and Virginia and West Virginia, it's
34:50
Speaker 1: not it's not a coincidence that all of them have
34:52
Speaker 1: kind of legalized around the same time. Those A lot
34:55
Speaker 1: of those states share cross border traffic with one another
34:57
Speaker 1: or another state there. That's your big thing too, is
35:00
Speaker 1: are you losing revenue to another state even if you're
35:03
Speaker 1: not making big revenue. One of the big things I
35:05
Speaker 1: look at that for is Kansas and Missouri, which are
35:08
Speaker 1: two of the big targets. They've introduced sports betting bills
35:11
Speaker 1: every year since passpot was repealed, and they just can't
35:13
Speaker 1: get done for politics and some of those issues where
35:17
Speaker 1: it's more so who gets the bill or you know,
35:18
Speaker 1: who who gets the access to sports betting? So but
35:22
Speaker 1: it's I kind of have joked about. I was speaking
35:23
Speaker 1: with some Kansas lawmakers last week. Once one of them
35:27
Speaker 1: does it, the other one is going to follow suit
35:29
Speaker 1: because they're not gonna want to see Kansas City split
35:31
Speaker 1: in half, and they are not going to be New
35:33
Speaker 1: York is the one exception where they've been okay with
35:36
Speaker 1: people taking a train to go into another state. They
35:40
Speaker 1: go spend money. Most states don't like that. So when
35:42
Speaker 1: you see that, you know, that's the remaining of that
35:45
Speaker 1: group of states. We are at twenty one states now
35:48
Speaker 1: that are that are taking bets UM already plus DC,
35:51
Speaker 1: so twenty two out of fifty one jurisdictions, let's call it.
35:55
Speaker 1: And we got another ten that are coming you know
35:57
Speaker 1: in the next uh three to six months or so,
36:00
Speaker 1: so we're gonna be at thirty one out of fifty one.
36:03
Speaker 1: You know, the remaining I think about ten states, it's
36:05
Speaker 1: going to be very politically difficult to get this done. Um.
36:08
Speaker 1: That also includes Alaska and Hawaii because they don't have
36:10
Speaker 1: that border pressure. But afterwards, it's just, you know, the
36:15
Speaker 1: tax revenues are locked there. Up is not going to
36:18
Speaker 1: be the factor in those reigning ten. It's gonna be politics,
36:20
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be allocation, who gets what and why?
36:24
Speaker 1: And how unbelievable? How dare you guys? Chads are reacting
36:27
Speaker 1: like a hundred fifty millions nothing to making three years
36:30
Speaker 1: in tax over New Jersey unbelievable. I like we just said,
36:34
Speaker 1: I still think this is the first inning. It's it's
36:37
Speaker 1: someone that lived in England. It's so everything. Gambling is
36:40
Speaker 1: just so different. It's just a part of life. Everyone
36:42
Speaker 1: you make bets with at the book or on your phone,
36:45
Speaker 1: at the pub with your lads before even match. I
36:47
Speaker 1: think that's in America will become all these different arenas,
36:50
Speaker 1: having sports books everything. I mean just even trying to
36:54
Speaker 1: do the math of what it's going to project out
36:56
Speaker 1: ten to twenty years from now. Like my talk to
36:57
Speaker 1: financial advisors, they can't get over it. They love gambling.
37:01
Speaker 1: They just think that it's one of these things that's
37:03
Speaker 1: just become a way of life. Everyone will go to
37:05
Speaker 1: a sporting match, you'll buy your fifty dollar sports tickets
37:08
Speaker 1: and you'll bet twenty dollars in your favorite team. It's
37:09
Speaker 1: just going one of these things where it's gonna go
37:11
Speaker 1: hand in hand. So again you're staying a hundred fifty millions,
37:14
Speaker 1: not a lot for the first three years. I think
37:16
Speaker 1: that's just gonna keep growing. I think that number will
37:18
Speaker 1: keep going up, especially in these different states. Yeah really,
37:21
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's just real quick. Yeah, no, a hundred
37:24
Speaker 1: fifty Again, it's just how how do you look at it?
37:27
Speaker 1: That's a lot of money that they otherwise wouldn't have had.
37:30
Speaker 1: But it's also it's not going to solve all your
37:32
Speaker 1: budget problems. Kind of what Chad says that they're yeah,
37:35
Speaker 1: they're they're both. They're both true at the same time.
37:37
Speaker 1: It's just kind of how you look at it. But
37:38
Speaker 1: it's just better than going to some guy in the
37:40
Speaker 1: Caribbean island. That's that's my whole point. That's why I
37:43
Speaker 1: hate when these different states are like, well how much
37:46
Speaker 1: were really making. It's like, okay, well don't do anything,
37:48
Speaker 1: and some guy's gonna buy another house in Mexico. That
37:50
Speaker 1: that that's my whole problem with what the whole system.
37:52
Speaker 1: It's like, this is the money we should be keeping
37:55
Speaker 1: in the country. So that's why I'm so happy, Like
37:57
Speaker 1: you just said, ten more states, you're gonna be legal,
38:00
Speaker 1: isn't it. The next couple of years it's it's one
38:01
Speaker 1: of those where you really are missing out and just
38:03
Speaker 1: revenue for your state by not donut. All right, Ryan,
38:06
Speaker 1: you say ten more states over the next three to
38:10
Speaker 1: six months. You mentioned Arizona, Connecticut, Louisiana, Maryland, Wyoming. That's five.
38:16
Speaker 1: Are those included in the ten that you're talking about,
38:19
Speaker 1: are you? Those are the ten that have are those
38:21
Speaker 1: are ten that have already done it? Those are that
38:23
Speaker 1: Those are five that have done it, five that have
38:25
Speaker 1: already done it, and then we have five more that
38:27
Speaker 1: have already done it. Who and that other five are Florida,
38:32
Speaker 1: which is a big asterisk but technically has done it, Nebraska,
38:36
Speaker 1: South Dakota, Washington, and Wisconsin, so they've all legalized it.
38:42
Speaker 1: Legalization is a technical term. It's every state is a
38:45
Speaker 1: little bit different. Some are tribal gaming compacts that are
38:50
Speaker 1: it's a little legalization as a catch all term that
38:52
Speaker 1: isn't specifically accurate that I want to clarify and try
38:55
Speaker 1: not to confuse people. But yes, have gone forward for it.
38:58
Speaker 1: So that's why I'm saying I think in early we're
39:01
Speaker 1: gonna have thirty one plus these thirty two live. But again,
39:06
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter for our purposes, for the purposes of
39:10
Speaker 1: the people in the state, for the tax coffers. If
39:13
Speaker 1: you do it retail only, it's a waste like it's
39:16
Speaker 1: it's you're legalizing for optics, not because you actually believe
39:20
Speaker 1: it's of any value. And it's just stupid and political.
39:23
Speaker 1: And Illinois is the sort of is the epitome of
39:29
Speaker 1: the political morass that sports betting legislation can get stuck
39:34
Speaker 1: in because of how they initially said you can only
39:38
Speaker 1: do it if you're betting retail, and then you log
39:41
Speaker 1: in or you register when you're on site. Then when
39:45
Speaker 1: when COVID happened and they needed more money, they suspended
39:50
Speaker 1: that rule. Then COVID was receding, and so now they've
39:53
Speaker 1: reenacted the rule. It's stupid. Florida, Nebraska, South Dakota, Washington, Wisconsin.
40:00
Speaker 1: How many of those states will allow online betting? These
40:03
Speaker 1: are all knows. Nebraska is a no, Washington is a no.
40:06
Speaker 1: Wisconsin is a no. South Dakota is a no. Florida
40:09
Speaker 1: is a maybe. Nebraska, South Dakota, Washington, Wisconsin, it all knows.
40:13
Speaker 1: Those are all knows. So we don't give a funk
40:14
Speaker 1: about those states. Yes, they have themselves from I say that,
40:20
Speaker 1: but it's not meant to be sarcastic. If you can't
40:23
Speaker 1: bet online legally, then it is a waste of the legislation,
40:27
Speaker 1: and it is a waste of legalization because you're not
40:30
Speaker 1: doing a service to any of the customers in that state.
40:32
Speaker 1: So you can say thirty one states of legalized sports betting,
40:36
Speaker 1: but the ceiling for those states continues to be higher
40:40
Speaker 1: because those states then need to do a second round
40:42
Speaker 1: of legislation to legalize online gaming. Do you see places
40:47
Speaker 1: like Nebraska, South Dakota, Washington, Wisconsin legalizing online registration online
40:55
Speaker 1: betting at some point in the future, not anytime soon
40:59
Speaker 1: for any of those, and a lot of those are
41:01
Speaker 1: tribal related issues, where for example, Wisconsin, it was not
41:05
Speaker 1: a law per se, it was a an agreement with
41:08
Speaker 1: the governor for a what's called a gaming compact that
41:12
Speaker 1: allowed one tribe in Green Bay to open up a
41:14
Speaker 1: sports book. Now, one of the ideas is a lot
41:17
Speaker 1: of tribes are hesitant to do online sports betting, are
41:20
Speaker 1: to embrace it because the idea is that if you
41:23
Speaker 1: have more online gambling, you'll have less in person gambling.
41:26
Speaker 1: Sports betting is a very low margin game, offering in
41:29
Speaker 1: the gambling sphere. So there's kind of that idea. And
41:32
Speaker 1: it's also keeping in mind that tribes are very very
41:34
Speaker 1: different from state to state and within their own state,
41:37
Speaker 1: which is there's bigger tribes that are making hundreds of
41:40
Speaker 1: millions of dollars. They're smaller tribes, maybe a few dozen
41:43
Speaker 1: people that that casino that maybe slot parlor is kind
41:46
Speaker 1: of what's keeping them upfloat. So it's just a little
41:48
Speaker 1: bit different um there to there. But those states that
41:51
Speaker 1: I mentioned with the retail most of those are tribal states,
41:54
Speaker 1: and it's just online is just not in the cards
41:56
Speaker 1: right now, and it wouldn't be a while too that happens. Again,
42:00
Speaker 1: I think kind of the bringing it up it is
42:02
Speaker 1: it's something that we don't stress enough. When we do
42:05
Speaker 1: say that thirty one states are legal or will be legal,
42:08
Speaker 1: they are not nearly can grue it. There are such
42:11
Speaker 1: discrepancies between a New Jersey and a Colorado versus a Delaware,
42:16
Speaker 1: and like a Mississippi or in Arkansas. Arkansas is legal,
42:20
Speaker 1: but it said three or four kind of rural books,
42:24
Speaker 1: you know, like it's it doesn't really mean much at
42:27
Speaker 1: all the verses where you know, even like a Tennessee
42:29
Speaker 1: you can bet statewide the Tennessee is kind of on
42:31
Speaker 1: that list of states we look at. And I have
42:34
Speaker 1: to bring this up before you get out of here. Uh, taxes,
42:37
Speaker 1: everyone's asking about taxes. I am not a tax lawyer
42:40
Speaker 1: and neither are you. And I know, like you just
42:42
Speaker 1: talked about every state, it's very different with their taxes.
42:44
Speaker 1: So for the people wondering how they find out what
42:46
Speaker 1: to do with taxes in their state, what what can
42:48
Speaker 1: what kind of advice can you give them? So yeah,
42:50
Speaker 1: I'd be very careful with everything here because again none
42:53
Speaker 1: of us are our experts on this. According to the law,
42:56
Speaker 1: it's six D dollars or more. Technically you are to
42:58
Speaker 1: pay taxes on your sports any winnings. There is a
43:01
Speaker 1: forum called the W two G to look out for
43:04
Speaker 1: that's kind of might help with that. But um, also
43:07
Speaker 1: just talk to please talk to your your tax preparation
43:10
Speaker 1: services or someone like that. Every state is different, every
43:13
Speaker 1: sometimes counties are different. There's additional fees and levies and
43:17
Speaker 1: all that. So so look into that and just be
43:19
Speaker 1: a heads up. That is a great question. The answer
43:21
Speaker 1: is yes, if you win money on sports succeeding six
43:24
Speaker 1: dollars in one state. You are going to have pay
43:26
Speaker 1: taxes on that, So please do Ryan before we do
43:30
Speaker 1: let you go. Are you as optimistic as I am
43:35
Speaker 1: about the opportunity and growth for online mobile wagering or
43:42
Speaker 1: do you feel that more states will be idiotic and
43:45
Speaker 1: make uh optics only legalization their choice? Of the states
43:52
Speaker 1: that are left, which is are the big ones here,
43:55
Speaker 1: um some of the So we look at Texas, possibly Florida,
43:58
Speaker 1: which is caught up in a big shoe. New York
44:01
Speaker 1: is advancing towards online sports betting, though it is a
44:03
Speaker 1: really odd system. California possibly down the road. Um those states,
44:08
Speaker 1: also Ohio and Massachusetts, in North Carolina. Three more states
44:13
Speaker 1: that we haven't even mentioned yet, all of them are
44:16
Speaker 1: considering online. So those are good signs. The reasons some
44:19
Speaker 1: of those states I just mentioned, like your Wisconsin state
44:22
Speaker 1: online wasn't a choice just because of some politics and
44:24
Speaker 1: some other regulatory issues and things like that. The states
44:28
Speaker 1: that are now looking at it, the ones that the
44:30
Speaker 1: big targets, the big you know, population states, they're going
44:34
Speaker 1: to pursue online if they can. Now. There can be issues,
44:37
Speaker 1: there can be other concerns, but it's definitely something in interest.
44:40
Speaker 1: California is gonna be a while. It probably won't be
44:42
Speaker 1: until five, maybe later. Texas probably won't be until Florida
44:50
Speaker 1: is a weird scenario where there's multiple venues and our
44:53
Speaker 1: avenues towards legal sports betting. Possibly New York. We're not
44:56
Speaker 1: looking into a launch until two um Ohio, and that's
45:00
Speaker 1: she s two in North Carolina if they do so.
45:03
Speaker 1: But yes, the long winded for these major states that
45:06
Speaker 1: are left, we are definitely for the most part looking
45:08
Speaker 1: at online. I don't expect a whole lot of just
45:11
Speaker 1: retail only anymore. There is no point in wasting your time.
45:16
Speaker 1: For anybody listening that, there's no point in waste your
45:19
Speaker 1: time on retail only. It's just not worth it. Online
45:21
Speaker 1: is eighty five pcent of handle, and that estimate might
45:24
Speaker 1: be getting even higher and higher as we then market
45:27
Speaker 1: matures and the live numbers. That's what you're can attest to.
45:30
Speaker 1: The live betting, that's the biggest driver and a lot
45:32
Speaker 1: of these sports books, so that that's what, like you
45:34
Speaker 1: just said, it's such a wasted time. It's uneducated people
45:37
Speaker 1: making huge decision on these states where they don't understand
45:39
Speaker 1: they're just wasting time, because it's inevitable all these states.
45:42
Speaker 1: If you're gonna have sports books, you're gonna do mobile.
45:45
Speaker 1: It's just the way to go on so many of
45:47
Speaker 1: these states. And it's it's the people making these decisions
45:49
Speaker 1: are part time lawmakers that have full time jobs, and
45:53
Speaker 1: they're none of them are experts on sports betting, and
45:56
Speaker 1: none of them And I get it. You know, there's
45:57
Speaker 1: a lot of concern Nebraska, there is a lot of
45:59
Speaker 1: You can't bet on the corn Huskers when they play
46:03
Speaker 1: in the state of Nebraska. That's probably the industry would
46:07
Speaker 1: tell you that's not really sound policy, that makes really
46:09
Speaker 1: no sense and won't protect them. But there was concern,
46:12
Speaker 1: and you can get somebody who doesn't follow this very
46:14
Speaker 1: closely or intimately like we do. So yeah, the fact
46:18
Speaker 1: is to tie it all up. Three years later, we
46:21
Speaker 1: got thirty one states that have crossed that line. Now
46:25
Speaker 1: only about fifteen of them are really kind of statewide
46:28
Speaker 1: mobile or are really what we're looking for. But we've
46:31
Speaker 1: made a lot of progress in only three years. I
46:33
Speaker 1: think overall we're looking up. There's a lot of issues
46:36
Speaker 1: and logistics ahead of us. But for the most part,
46:38
Speaker 1: you have to look glass half full this has been
46:41
Speaker 1: a success in many ways. I agree, And I also
46:43
Speaker 1: would say I don't mind the idea that brings in
46:49
Speaker 1: a handful of states. Three, brings in another big state
46:54
Speaker 1: and bring in Texas and California, because that just means
47:00
Speaker 1: there's more revenue step ups and more opportunities for these
47:03
Speaker 1: things to find even more efficient ways to operate and
47:07
Speaker 1: better ways to drive economies of scale for sports betting
47:12
Speaker 1: businesses like ours over the next three to four years.
47:15
Speaker 1: So and it keeps me employed. Yeah, which I'm also
47:21
Speaker 1: all in favor of Ryan Butler sports betting legalization analysts
47:27
Speaker 1: for the Action Network. Check it out Action network dot com,
47:29
Speaker 1: go to the legalization tracker Simon Hunter. This was very
47:33
Speaker 1: valuable for both of us, I believe, honestly, it's one
47:36
Speaker 1: of my favorite shows we've done this entire season. I
47:38
Speaker 1: can't believe how much knowledge you just dropped man, Especially
47:41
Speaker 1: you gave me optimism about the future because there's just
47:43
Speaker 1: so much growth. I feel like what you just said
47:46
Speaker 1: is there's just so much room for growth. It just
47:48
Speaker 1: made me really excited. Simon is really just waiting for
47:50
Speaker 1: the chance to move to California. This has been the
47:55
Speaker 1: favorites from the Volume podcast Network downlet us from Apple podcast,
47:59
Speaker 1: from houtified, wherever you get your podcasts. We will be
48:02
Speaker 1: back on Thursday with The thunder Door. Until next time,
48:07
Speaker 1: I love you, M yeah