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Honest Prayer, The Heart, and the Fear of The Lord · The Hearing God Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Anthony Moore.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm Dan Lamus.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we invite you into these weekly conversations.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, here we are.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: Here we are.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: How's it going, Dan?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's going good.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I was thinking about this a little bit, and uh I say it's going good really for a pretty specific reason.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: I've just been really blessed this week.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Psalm 103's been really capturing my attention, especially the beginning of the psalm.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, where uh the psalmist, I believe it's David, writes, Bless the Lord, O my soul.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: And he's and he starts talking to his innermost being.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: And he says, Forget not the Lord's benefits.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I've found myself recognizing the need to do that, and and you know, it's just been a good reminder to do that as in talking to my the deepest parts of myself.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, talking to yourself, yeah, yeah.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just being it's like the Bible invented talking to yourself or legitimized it.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let me know.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, legitimized it.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Legitimized it.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and just recognizing that that prayer includes times when you need when you need to address your inner world.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, I I've just been finding myself reminding, like, when I when I think about the deepest, most inner parts of my life, I think about parts that want to hide, yeah, ways that they want to kind of stay out of of the light.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I just been really encouraged of God's about God's gentleness in that.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so I found myself this week I'm doing well, but I'm preaching to my inner, yeah my innermost being a little bit this week.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of where I've been at.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I I found myself in the last couple days uh really grateful for the psalms.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, and again, those like I I don't know where like there's something the unique and special about the Psalms because let me let me say uh I I think it's the most raw and honest and hope-filled and despondent and like it's the most like there's no uh there's no other book in the Bible to my in my brief scan right here in these last few seconds that actually that actually comes at it from a first person perspective, right?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it's right, you know, and you know, so and so did this and so-and-so said this, but the psalms and and and even let's let's say even provs are more instructive, right?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do this, these things are great, uh, these things are true, but the psalms, you know, have a angle of very human processing, yeah, right with with God.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and part of it struck me as like, you know, that struck me as that it's it's actually, you know, it's actually very relevant for you and I and anyone else uh listening.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a very human kind of it's a processing book with God about my innermost being.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt I guess I found myself really it's it's that's that detail struck me.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I found myself being really grateful that that exists, especially for you know, someone like me who's probably a bit of an not a not a bit, I am an overthinker, um, and just get stuck in my head all plenty of times.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I found myself just glad that the Psalms exist, like as a as a sort of a roadmap, um, you know, for human, like how do I pro like not just processing, right, but processing with God.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: How do I get this right before God?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and and it really, like, I think there's a there's a lot of there's a just you know, just a gener speaking generally, there's a lot of times where David is, you know, maybe he's lashing out in anger, yeah, uh, you know, break the teeth of my enemies, those kinds of things, right?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Where where he's and there's times where he's despondent and he's calling out, you know, yeah, uh, I lift my high eyes to the hills, right?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where does my help come from?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, but like, Lord save me.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And but the thing is, is the vast majority of those moments uh in all 150 Psalms, it's it's it ends with hope.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is a there or well, let's let's say uh maybe not maybe not necessarily hope, although hope is there, it at least ends with faith in that I am putting my trust in the Lord.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: My hope is in the Lord, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning that like wherever he is in his life, there is a declared, and again, it's not just David, but David wrote most of them.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a declaration of my trust, my hope, my belief is in God alone.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, not two armies, you know.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's and and so I guess I I love that.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh I've heard it said that Psalms, Psalms, uh the book of Psalms uh is in the Bible in order to give permission for honest praying.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah it's like like the like the the declarations of what I know to be true at the end of those psalms comes after just very honest I'm gonna get this out before you God because this is this is what where I'm really at.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: And it gives permission for that very real getting it out with having without because the overthinking can kind of end up you end up uh ripping yourself off in a certain way in prayer because you're not getting out the way it really is.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and I think that that you know, this is and this is such a bit of an obscure, I don't know, I sort of back and forth of whether to mention this, but somehow this makes me feel better.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, there is a new covenant sort of angle and you know to the book of Psalms, right?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So oftentimes we talk about old covenant, new covenant, and we talk, we've certainly talked about that from a prophetic perspective and what that looks like.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact that, you know, David being uh, you know, I think it's Samuel, first Samuel, where uh or 2 Samuel again, biblical references are uh one thing, um what where it talks about the Holy Spirit coming and David, you know, the Holy Spirit resting upon David and remaining, right?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the Bible never, you know, if the Bible, you know, the Bible talks about the Holy Spirit leaving Saul, right?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then coming to rest on David.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So so my sort of take on that is that David, while he's processing processing that, is living a uh almost, let's call it a shadow or a foreshadowing of a new covenant reality because of the presence of the Holy Spirit in his life.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, he again, he's talking about that's why he says, you know, in you know, when his repenting of uh you know, Bathsheba and all of that, like don't create me a clean heart, don't take your Holy Spirit from me.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because the Holy Spirit is there, yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so this is his plea.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess there's a part of that that just makes me feel like I'm dealing with like David was almost, almost dealing with, because we obviously know New Covenant, Jesus coming, dying, all of that, establishing that.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it was almost like David's living in this foreshadowing of a new covenant reality because of the presence of the Holy Spirit in his life, which was which was fairly unique in the in the Old Testament.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so I don't know, I don't know if anyway, I don't know if that's helpful for anybody, but for for whatever reason, me reading the Psalms and knowing that about David makes me feel and better about processing and gives me uh permission to process like David did.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if anybody else has to go through all of those hoops to get there, uh, or maybe you just accept it at face value.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: But what a great invitation though for us.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and maybe even coming into summer is a great season for the Psalms to have more of a more of a centerpiece in our in our life.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because we're looking back over the spring, maybe and the and the winter, and think and we're thinking about how do I feel about the year that's gone by.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I'm coming to vacation time.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and Psalms is a great place to help you just be honest about that with God.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, um, it's funny in in the process of hearing God, yeah, you know, I I wonder if there's a principle here where hearing God has to involve honest praying.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like it's difficult, difficult for me to hear God when I'm distracted by the things I really want to get out to him.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: The things that are really going on at the deeper levels, but I'm holding back.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: But I'd like for him to speak to me while at the same time I'm trying to hold these other things at bay.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: And and maybe there's a principle there in the psalms that we can recognize as you're reading through them.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: How do I see the psalmist working that principle?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why is the psalmist being so gut level raw here as he's writing this?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Not only did he pray it, but he took the time to pen these thoughts.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like that takes a little processing.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like you, it wasn't like he just spoke into his phone in a voice memo.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like he took the time to sketch this poem or put it into a poem.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, this prayer into a poem.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like imagine that.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like taking, taking what if your assignment before God for a week was son, daughter, I want you to come to me and write your most raw thoughts to me in the form of a poem.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: And if you will do that, I will respond.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, like what a what I mean that's quite profound to think that these psalmists they saw it as important enough to actually put their raw, difficult, maybe bitter at times, thoughts into poetry.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like that took some attention.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: They weren't just spouting off.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like they were dwelling on this enough, enough to get it into poetic.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, I just think there's something kind of cool there.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, because honestly, I've I have felt that invitation lately too.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know if it's because a few prayer meetings I've been part of.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: People have read from Psalms more often than I'm used to.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: But I've also felt like, man, I I want to kind of spend some time there too.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: So that's cool.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's really good.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, just to say, like, we've we've said this before, but just to just to hit it again, because I think it's been a while, but like that God isn't interested in dealing with like the the the you you project.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right, that's right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's only interested and and and does deal with the real you.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: The you that you've that he's made you to be.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so honesty is integral to that, right?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you really so if you're projecting or something or praying, you know, out of a place where that you think like praying from a place that you think you should be praying.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you're giving when you're giving God what what you you think he wants to hear, and you're not holding you're not uh you're not giving him what's really going on.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you're holding back from him.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh whether that's, you know, usually that's you know, grief, anger, uh something negative, like a burden or whatever.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you're not giving that to him, like, like it would be, you know, maybe he's saying, uh, listen, I would I love you and I want you to give me all of those.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's almost as if there's something you're not telling me.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like Jesus is saying, Cast all your cares upon me, cast all your cares upon me.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, you know, so it's just I think it's just one of the that's that's a real uh, you know, that's a connected reality of like God only interested in dealing with the real you and you and you being completely forthright, honest, yeah, candid uh in your prayer and giving yourself permission to to to kind of unload at times, right?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Again, dude, I I find it hard to experience the mercy of God for the real me.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if I'm living in the what if all the time.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like if I'm coming to God all the while, there's this secret agenda in my back pocket that goes, I'd like to really talk to him about the mess I'm in and how I feel.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I'm not sure if I should.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: What if I really did?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I can come away from whole, you know, time set aside for prayer, having not not ever really brought forward the thing that what if what if I would have?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: Would God and but when I do bring it forward, his mercy is so obvious.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and this is a lesson I think I have learned and I'm continuing to learn that the quicker that I can get there, and also, and I will say this too, I'm gonna throw this as a tag.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the quicker that I can get there, I because I think it's fairly I I I think I would say in the last whatever number of years, months, whatever, that I have learned that that's it's just not helpful to try and be something else.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I still am learning is to uh not stay there, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm learning to to I don't know, it's just like to actually like you know how the you know, I just said earlier the how the psalmist sort of like turns the corner by the end of the by the end of the chapter, yes, right?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right, is to, you know, again, at times I find myself just like re regurgitating the same, like here I am, Lord, this this sucks.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: But then also again, to to and it isn't it isn't disingenuous, because oftentimes that gets a little blurry, especially, you know, for for people like that doesn't make sense.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: But there is an element where it's like I'm actually choosing to put my faith in you, and sometimes I can feel disingenuous, but in actuality, that's you're actually making a choice to say, I'm gonna I'm gonna keep choosing to put my faith to put my hope.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, you're my you're the one who can help me.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, so I'm gonna choose to keep coming back to you.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: And throughout scripture, you you just see God relating to whole nations and to individuals, Old Testament and New Testament, um, in the very real relational process that that humans and God go through.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: And the the hopefulness of getting all of my raw, you know, unfiltered stuff out there with God is built on where this is gonna go.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna be reminded of God's goodness.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I know that's where it's going.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, by the end of my prayer, where I'm gonna end up is yeah, God, I need you to remind me how good you are.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he's that that process is there.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: I I find it interesting throughout the prophets how God will actually explain to his people you've done this, you've walked away from me, I'm going to discipline you.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's gonna be awful, yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: But then what I can't wait to do is I'm gonna come back around and show you my mercy again, and you're gonna be so overjoyed in that day.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and I can't wait for it, my people.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it's this yeah, funny, it's this funny uh window in on God knows exactly how he's made us.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he gets that we need to be reminded of his goodness, he's happy to do it, but we have to play by the rules, right?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: And the rules are this thing, this funny dynamic that David taps on a lot is he gets that somehow the Holy Spirit's presence with him and his heart for God still has to pull unruly parts within him into line once in a while.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and I would just say this too, because I think this is ultimately where we where we wanted to go today is like this is unto something.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: This this honest processing, this honest prayer life, this uh is really unto God coming and healing and making our heart whole.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, right, complete, right, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we're all of us are still on that journey, but again, that's the part, like that's the end goal, yeah, is for God to come and restore uh you know, to heal all the places that you know, wounded have been wounded, that are dysfunctional, sinful, have misplaced desire, all of those places, God is coming and He's there's this healing journey that's happening in all of us.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that you know this tremendous building, all that because yeah, you know, again, we've we've had conversations recently about you know these very things that we've been talking about and just understanding that you know if there is a misplaced desire in me, right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right, that it is the best thing that I can do is bring that to the Lord.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the only like he's the only one that can heal that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, he's the only one because he made it, right, right.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you and I we're living a fallen world, and there's lots of woundings, and there's a lot of um, there's lots of things that can happen.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so it really is, is like the the reality of of coming to terms with that fact that he's the only one who can heal that, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And also that there's a journey to that healing, right?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: There is a there is a there is a hundred percent, there's a now and a not yet part of the healing journey of the heart.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a there is a a real process to that, you know.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's like you know, like we've used language like garden and we've used language like forest and you know the trees, like it takes a while for a tree to grow.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: It takes a while, it takes tending and care, you know, and and yeah, you know, it's getting transformed at the speed of a growing plant.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's this and this and understanding that the Lord in his, you know, uh what what am I in his tender, you know, tender loving kindness, you know, yeah, is walking with us, is he's walking with us through this process.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so just to be, and again, like we get we try to we try to project, we try to hide the fact that those things are that that's actually happening.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we pretend at times like we've arrived, you know, we want to make it seem like we have it all together, and you know, all it is is hiding the the fact, right?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: That right, you know, that we've that that we're actually still in process.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Man, Anthony, like just the the awareness, the awareness that comes to you as you grow, as you grow up in your relationship with God, that you're you're walking with the God who created you, but who also knows that you're kind of clueless about your own motivations.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you may actually even think you're doing great.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he may need to wake you up to the fact that, well, you You appear to be doing great, but you're actually trying to hide wounds that you don't want me to you don't want me to go in there and actually touch that wound.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: And but we don't even know.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: But this is the guy we're walking with who loves us the whole way along.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: But it's still real that it's possible man.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: I just it's so intricate because God's not interested in messing with me.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: He doesn't want to play emotional games with me.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's not that way.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: He's actually merciful toward the fact that I do that to myself.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: And the and our enemy, our you know, uh the demonic realm loves to take advantage of the fact that we're hard on ourselves and we don't deal with ourselves well.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: But God is so patient in that process and of of um of even knowing, He knows our unhealthy motivations, yeah, but He'll still put an arm around us and walk with us until we're we're coming up against and we're realizing we've run into a roadblock or whatever.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: And the roadblock is actually that I've got something out of line within me.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: And God goes, Yep, okay, this is a good time for us to talk about that.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: He may have known for months or years, you know, uh, but he's so merciful that way.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, yeah, it's uh No, that's good, that's good, man.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, and I I think it's just it's the coming to terms with that that's really important, is you know, and and it and it sucks when you're in the middle of it.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: It sucks when you're in the middle of you know, sitting there in your own mess, you know, and you're dwelling on things and things aren't right and things aren't as they should be.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, the reality is is the you know, those are no one likes those moments, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you only you and that's a thing, you know, that's a thing that oftentimes is just simply between you and God, because the moment someone else comes around, you put on a happy face, or you're or you get around other people and you're you're back to and I'm not saying that you necessarily should be bleeding all the time over everybody, but and again, that's there's some place for that, right?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: But this is I'm really talking about, I think, I think we're you and I are both talking about these places between a person and the Lord, right?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's secret place stuff, like the you know, you're the stuff that you're processing, only you are processing with the Lord.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's just important, yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, important we want to I just wanted to throw this out to you because what led us to get to, you know, to start the conversation in this way was ultimately to maybe get to there's this there's this scripture verse in Psalm 86 that I just want to read um to you.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: It is Psalm 86, verse 11.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: It says, Teach me your way, O Lord, that I may walk in your truth.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then he says this, unite my heart to fear your name.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And this cry of David is that, you know, we talk about the fear of the Lord often.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, gosh, I can't remember where it's like Psalm uh I get a kick, I get a kick, I get a kick out of all these, all these scripture verses that means so much to us.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: That means so much to us, and I can't for the life of me remember where it is.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's why Google's my friend.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: On the Hearing God podcast, we'll give you what neighborhood we'll tell you what book it's in, mostly.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but really, like there's a you know, we talk about the the fear of the Lord being clean.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's like Psalm 1101 or something, 100.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh wow, where the fear of the Lord, right?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: The fear of the Lord being clean, and we know the proverbs where it says the fear, the fear, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we hear you know, through these books, like, blessed is the one who fears your name.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the reverence, you know, in uh Isaiah, I think it's uh 11, um, where it talks about uh the root of Jesse, who is Jesus, and he and he was gonna operate in the spirit of the fear of the Lord.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, we all these places where the fear of the Lord, and we know again, um, I think most people know that it's not being afraid of God, that the fear of the Lord is basically reverence that's right and revering God.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's you know, it's identifying the reality of like I'm actually if I am afraid, it's I'm afraid of being without you, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's this place of of ultimate, and dare I say the fear of the Lord to me connotates or brings up it's just this the perf the perfect reverence for God.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like operating in this place.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so and and I want to I want to throw I want to throw this out and just say like I don't think the fear of the Lord is something that we can like drum up, like it's not something that we can sort of like grit our teeth, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the fear of the Lord, and just basing off this scripture verse, uh, I think the fear of the Lord is something that is a byproduct of what comes, what's happening in our heart.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's really good.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think the fear of the Lord is something that, you know, as our heart becomes whole, as we, you know, work this stuff out with God, it's not to say that we don't have, I think we have, I think when God comes, there is a measure, there is a measure of the fear of the Lord.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like if the if the fear of the Lord was a glass, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, or they're the container of our heart, or is it something that we we get a little bit of the fear of the Lord, right?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe we sort of stay there.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe some people stay there their whole lives, right?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: But as God comes and un unlocks our heart, brings restoration, brings whole healing, restoration to all the areas of our heart.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I actually think, you know, I'm just I guess I'm sliding this across the table.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And just to say that the byproduct of a whole heart, here he's here.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Unite my heart to fear your name.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it says, Give me, give me the whole heart.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Give me, give me a single-minded to the end, give me a single heart so that I can fear your name.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, it seems like there's a there's, and again, I'm I'm adding my experience and other and others, my observed experience to say that it to me, it seems like the the fruit of a whole heart is the fear of the Lord.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's really that's really great.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's really great.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I hear something in there uh that that in order to experience the fear of the Lord requires a risk.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I'm gonna have to take a risk that feels too expensive.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: But my taking that risk to actually give a to to go to do to go where I'm gonna need to go to have a united heart.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like the risk of because you're you're surrendering God uniting my heart.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Going back to the drumming up part, yeah.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: I I agree.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't think we can unite our heart and bring it to God.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like in the very act, even even if I could to some degree unite my heart to bring it to God, I would already be creating a new problem because I did it.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because you did it.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: I still would be in control.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: But me to come and say, God, if only you can unite my heart, yeah, and I want to fear you with my whole heart, but yeah, I can't until you unite my heart.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, right in there series of choices we make.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I just so in order to experience that perfect fear of the Lord, complete fear of the Lord, I have to take a risk.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: I have to risk letting God unite my heart, which means hidden parts of my heart that don't want to be exposed, yeah, are suddenly by my by my act of the will, yeah, I'm saying I'm I'm choosing God to come and unite my heart, which means I have to take my hands off and let Him do it.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yes.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that that's what is quite profound.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: In order to experience the fear of the Lord, require always requires a risk.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: You can't get to the fear of the Lord without risking something.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and let me just throw this this lob this out here as well, because the fear of the Lord is is unto Christlieness.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because we know that connection that I just mentioned from the from the Old Testament, right?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: The reverence, and we can see that in the life of Jesus, the reverence that he had for the Father.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right from the start.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right from right from the start.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like the true human.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he actually feared the Lord from the very never had to learn things.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we know he did.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: We know he had to be able to do that.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: He had to be disciplined, all these things.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: And yet, and yet he didn't have the same struggle we have.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're not saying yes.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's I think that's a good thing.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the beautiful part, yeah, right.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the the wounded part of you and me, you know, the wounded parts, that's the part where it's like, okay, so this is, and I just I love what you said about like this is this is uh this is risky.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is risky business because how do I because here I have lift up lived up to this point in my life, and maybe for some, there's a tremendous amount of pain that has come from from vulnerability.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, can I just interject something?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, for sure.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Just because it might get missed.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to say say it quick and get out.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um Jesus knew what to do with his wounds.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think it's wrong for us to imagine Jesus as a six, eight, ten, twelve, fifteen-year-old.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Never took his.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: He knew what to do with his wounds because he didn't wrestle with an undivided heart.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: If you know, like yeah, exactly.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because if he didn't, if if he didn't experience those wounds, he never would have suffered perfectly.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: So he had to suffer perfectly as a human.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just knowing what to do with it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's good.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really great point.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because we want to beat ourselves up for getting wounded sometimes.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's my own stupid fault.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: Why should I bring that to God?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: It was my fault anyway.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is good.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus knew what to do with all that.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like maybe he deserved, maybe Jesus walked right into situations as a 12-year-old, got his feelings hurt.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: For all we know, maybe Joseph hurt his feelings when he said, Where were you the last three days?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, maybe Jesus actually got a little hurt by that, you know.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: But he knew what to do with it.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, just throw it at the end.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think that's really good because I I think, yeah, I think that's the it's important to establish that, you know, we don't because oftentimes we would look at the life of Jesus and go, like, that's a easy peasy.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: That was easy for him.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or yeah, or or creating an impossible standard or create creating doesn't relate to us at all or whatever.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Which absolutely okay, and it is impossible without his presence, yes.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: But it is possible with but yes, exactly.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So so I think what I wanted to lest lest we get down a rabbit hole just to just too many good things.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I think I just wanted to just dwell a little bit longer on this, is that you know it's my own personal, like I I want a heart that fears the Lord.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because you know, I there are there are a ton of good books out there about the fear of the Lord.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when I read that, I go, I want, I want that.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want my heart to revere God as God wants my heart to revere him.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like I want from my heart the thing that God wants, right?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Even if I don't completely understand that, I know that the like the fear of the Lord is is the goal, right?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And to even fearing the Lord the way that Jesus had reverence for the Father, like I want that for my life.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so oftentimes, you know, uh, you know, the fear of the Lord is the beginning beginning of wisdom, right?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we know that there's a process and a flow.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always like that's why I think this scripture verse was a bit of a gift for me when I discovered it maybe a couple of years ago, um, that it really sort of like landed with me.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is is to understand to get some clarity on the journey.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: To say, okay, well, here I have lived up to this point in my life, and I'm still imperfectly fearing the Lord, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still wrestling with this things about why I do what I do, why I don't do what I don't do.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And before the Lord, why I don't do what I don't do.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, the this this thing of like, okay, so my heart is still in process.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and the permission that I I need to just like, okay, just relax, you know.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just relax.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And let the Lord speak life to your heart.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that your heart becomes whole.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can fear then you can grow in the fear of the, you know, you can grow in the fear of the Lord.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's a that's a profound place.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: I said something there that I really wanted to jump on, but um, but it's like, oh, it's the it's this.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's this the fact that, you know, when God speaks to you, and when he's dealing with you as, as we said, as the real you, the word that he speaks is life-giving.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is like it isn't um like I've I've found so much over these last years that when God speaks to you, right?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Either that's from a from a from the word, through a person in a prayer moment, you know, all these kinds of things.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it could be, you know, a whisper over my right shoulder at one point.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when he comes, he speaks a better word.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so so the word that he speaks is often better than you think he's gonna.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's like what he says to you is going to be better than what you expect.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the fruit of that is going to be healing for your heart.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, it's so good.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so I think I think I'm just I'm gonna say on that.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: So don't forget.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, and I just I think I just I mean, chime in if you want because I think I think we're hitting a we're centering around something here, but like just go for it.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: So the word that I I enjoy is fearsome, yeah, fearsome.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that God's love and his word are fearsome.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: There's a there's a character to it that it is so good that it it actually is fearsome.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's something behind it that is too much for us, right?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: And we know that his better word, and I want to say it's fair game when you're walking with God, that the better word he brings to you is gonna feel too dangerous for you to embrace.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: Agreed.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that that right there does not make you a bad Christian.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: That makes you a pretty normal Christian.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that it should feel to you like like the good, better word from God is a little bit too dangerous for you to embrace.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is normal.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: I just want everybody to hear that.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's normal walking with God.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um because the fearsomeness of it actually us getting comfortable with that.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we if we fear the Lord, which says to me, His love, his love is actually gonna call me to live dangerously.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh dangerous in the battle that between, you know, the battle over our minds, over creation that's still ongoing, whole other whole other discussion.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, Anthony, I'll get it back on track.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: But but the but the I cause okay, so I'll apply it this way.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: The the Jesus reverent, like Jesus walking in the spirit of the fear of the Lord to me means he was willing to stick to the plan of the triune God, even though it was a fearsome plan that was dangerous for him to walk.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but he did it.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is a model for us as God calls us deeper and farther and calls us to grow up in him, that his love and his word are going to appear to the immature parts of us as fearsome and dangerous, and yet that that's where the complete fear of the Lord that's how we get there, is to say that that it's fair game for for it to cost us something.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's going, it's literally going to feel like I'm not sure I can do this thing, but all the while you're taking a step into it, right?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: The Spirit of God is right there to say, you're doing it, and I'm so proud of you.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there's some part about, I'm gonna throw this out there too.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's something about the how God speaks, and I and I, you know, this is how the the fearsome things, it's like too much for us.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because it it oftentimes will violate our religiousness.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: It will actually break or cause the framework of our sort sort of how our worldview to to really come unglued.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: In like a framework, like a structure of it.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like the the guardrails.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I can't do that.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, or I, you know, I I can't allow myself.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like the trying to process grace and truth at the same time.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the the scandalousness of grace, and yet the the fact that if we we let ourselves, you know, like that that we're we're grace abounds, uh, sorry, so where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And yet at the same time, that's not license to sin, right?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: But yet the the grace being like so scandalous, it feels as though my heart at times feels like, what do you mean, God?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's an impossibility.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're you're giving it's almost as if like it's shaky to my framework because it almost feels like you're you're giving me license to do whatever I want.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, it's not like so.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's really messing, messing with because other things are at play here.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right, right.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because receiving the grace of God in full and going towards it means that sin actually reduces and trusting ourselves to his hand, his care, his tending, all that stuff.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it's but this is one of those things where it's like it feels like as I as the word of God comes, it comes in a way that violates and breaks my the almost like the my pretending the the framework of my life, how who I think I'm who I think I am.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it just and the best thing that we can do is actually let that happen.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right because that's where uh that's where a discon disconnected or uh what is it what's the opposite of united?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh divided, I guess.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Divided, sure.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like like a heart that needs to be united.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you're describing.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like there's this war going on in your very heart.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think, yeah, right, because I think the problem is that I built the framework.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, right, exactly.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: I built the framework for my life, and so this is what it looks like to fear the Lord.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: So here's how I'm gonna and and and it's like so.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: I built the framework, and so when something comes in, right, that could be really, really good, in fact, is always better than I think, yep, it can actually cause that framework to start to creak and break.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and ultimately, I think, I think the Lord is interested.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, no, no, not not that I think.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I know He's interested in the fracture and the dismantling and the tearing down of that framework.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and that can feel really unsettling to me.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: So from a completely subjective place, yeah, I would just say that my new self in Christ, Colossians three.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: Check it out, everybody.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: We actually had an address this time.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the neighborhood, the Colossians neighborhood, chapter three.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: Go right to chapter three.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: You can read.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: There about the old self and the new self.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I would just like to say from my personal subjective experience, the new self, Dan Lamus, the new self Dan Lamus, yeah.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: The real you scares me.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I have had to deal with my fear of letting that new self actually come to the front and lead the way.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously submitted to Christ.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: New self is is submitted to Christ.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I so not only is the word, not only is the word that God brings to me sometimes frightening and challenging to my pretend structures.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: From with inside.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: This is part that's really curious and fun.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: That the new self in me, Christ in me, the hope of glory, it's actually doing some damage from the inside out.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like not only is it the thing, word coming at me that's creaking my structures, is from within me.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: The new self is going, I can't wait to break the structure down.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I fight against that in my heart sometimes because I'm afraid of that my new self is going to get me into more trouble than I'm ready for.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: But it's actually good.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually the new self that God's talking to.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: But I think in some ways that's what Paul's talking about in that chapter.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like continually take off the old clothing and put on the new self.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because I I know we could relate to this is the wrestle.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: The new self is actually going to take you.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Your new self is actually more fearsome than you think.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Not only is God more fearsome, his word and his love more fearsome, the new self that He's that He's put in us and created us into redeemed us to be the new self, it's actually more fearsome than we imagine.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it's quite a it's quite a it's not for the faint of not for the faint of heart.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: For the faint of heart.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I and I think because the let me say the fear of the Lord is fearsome.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and really like the one, you know, the one who fears the Lord uh is fearless.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, yes.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Boom.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I just I'm just gonna drop that.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's a bit of a mic drop.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: And because who is I just heard that?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Who did I hear that from?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was uh it was yesterday.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was uh one of our team had said this Wesley quote, right?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: When we're we are in the center of God's will, we are invincible.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and when yeah when he's done with us, then nothing can nothing can save us, right?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's really like when we but yet, and that seems fairly dramatic thing to say, but really when when we are, and I've heard this before, like when you are in, you know, when you are when you are where God wants you to be, you're invincible.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it's a safe world.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: So and I can I can I say this that that fact uh and I and I think it's sort of let me color it in a little bit, um, because it has to do with the fear of the Lord, um, is like when you are centered in the fear of the Lord, it doesn't matter what happens to you.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: On the earth, yes, right, that's right.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I could be the safe, you know, right, you know what I'm saying?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because it might even walk because there's some fiery furnace.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because it point again, right?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because it points to a greater reality, yeah.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that you know, it's the same thing as the the Shadrach, Meshach, and Abedmu.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we won't bow, right?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the Lord can save us, right?
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: But if he won't, but but if he doesn't, we won't.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: We're still not gonna bow.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right, exactly.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: So right, yes, I know I know what you're gonna say.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, uh, it's so, you know, uh, it's so so bold and audacious of a thing to say.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's like it's almost as like we've may the Lord convince our hearts, you know, in this process.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: Number he speak a better word to our hearts to cause you know the fear of the Lord to rise up within us and therefore fearlessness.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Man, right?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: To to go through this world unafraid.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know, to go through this world completely revering his name and completely confident in like that nothing can happen to me that doesn't like it doesn't filter through him, right?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna allow that he's gonna allow that so they can bring his glory, but I'm gonna be okay, right?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: So bad things the heart has been united.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: My heart has been united, and I am convinced that that whatever may come, I am convinced that whatever may come, because I mean it like Jesus suffered, Jesus went through it, he was betrayed, he you know, he was wounded, he was scourged, he was beaten, he was all of those things.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: He was cursed, he was mocked, all of those things that Jesus, you know, he did, those things happened to him, but at any time there was never a time where he was like like afraid, right?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right, like he was fear, he was fearless and fearsome in the process.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like not that when I hear when I sort of take all that in and I go, how does that how does it affect me?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: I go, I go, Lord, help my heart.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Here's my heart for one thing.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Cause it's like because that that that's scriptural, yeah.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, God, unite my heart.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right, here's my heart unite it, right?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like basically that's what that's what David is saying, right?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I can't unite my own heart.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: You must that confession is built right into that.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't unite my heart.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: God, unite my heart to fear your name.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so so I would just say, I just say, like, God, would you, would you come and and and again, it seems as though there's all kinds of reasons to be afraid, right?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: And even external, internal, right, you know, might be in our families, might be, you know, might be regarding our families, all kinds of things to be afraid.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, and again, I think we've sort of we're sort of meandering a little bit, but that's okay.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's the way a lot of our conversations goes, but maybe we can that beautiful, yeah fearsome to and taking us to the fear of the Lord, making us fearless.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a beautiful, yeah.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's a beautiful progression.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe and I think it's I think it's my turn.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's my turn.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely my turn to pray.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe I can just like let's just let's just pray and ask the Lord to number one, just the cry of David there, unite our hearts to fear the fear the Lord.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then as a as a byproduct of that, of the whole heart, that we would grow in reverence of God and that all other fears would subside.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: So amen.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: So Father, we just come before you, Lord.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: We just say, We we love you, we welcome your presence, Holy Spirit.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: We welcome your ministry here and now and Father, uh, according to your word, Lord, we just surrender our hearts anew and afresh to you.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: We say, here we are, here's our heart.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Come and unite our hearts, give us an undivided heart, give us a singular, focused heart on you, and Lord, bring about the fear of the Lord in our lives, heal our hearts, God, so that we can grow in the reverence of who you are, your great name, Lord.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we just say, God, here we are, come and do a work that only you can do.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: And God, we love you, we welcome you, we welcome your ministry.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lord, we welcome the better word, Lord, that comes from you, that that your word, like you sent your word and healed us, Lord.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, God, we welcome, we welcome your word.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: We welcome, we welcome the one who is the word to come and do his work, Lord.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh we just ask that as your kids, as believers, and we just say, God, help us grow in Christ-likeness, help us grow in love towards you.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Heal our hearts in Jesus' name.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's a wrap on this episode.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time.