Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / BONUS: Athletics LLC EP15 ft Vince Anderson: 'Method or Madness'-July 17, 2020

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BONUS: Athletics LLC EP15 ft Vince Anderson: 'Method or Madness'-July 17, 2020 · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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Hey gang, welcome to the Gill FedEx connections podcast, the
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Well I'm your host Mike Cunningham, national sales
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manager for Gil. And this episode Our Guest is
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the Athletics LLC. We've got episode 15 of today,
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featuring The Great and Wonderful Vince Anderson method
0:43
or Madness. This is a great one, you're
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going to love it every Friday, check them out on YouTube, We
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Run the audio broadcast here a week or two later for added
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value for you today right now. Without further Ado, please help
0:56
me. Welcome the wise.
0:58
The wonderful Athletics See episode 15 with Vince Anderson
1:02
method or Madness. Good evening. because we have a
1:42
great guest at this week first, with our introductions, Creed's
1:46
got Lamar where your mouth I just now caught the slide.
1:56
It's going on Lucius. Good evening everyone.
2:01
And in true, LLC fashion, we've got Vincent, Alvin Johnson
2:06
Anderson, welcome to the show. Hi, hello.
2:10
Glad to be here. He's all in.
2:12
He's bought in and ready to go. We've got names and everything.
2:17
So we're going to jump into the deep end where he can get hit in
2:20
belly flop. First Definitely coach first.
2:25
But what are the biggest differences in regards to
2:28
philosophies in your opinion for the men's and women's short
2:31
rules. You know, I put you on the spot,
2:35
you don't have to go first, if you don't know what you talking
2:38
about me. Yes, sir.
2:40
Yes sir, yes, sir. That's a, that's a deep
2:44
question. Strangely, I don't think any of
2:47
those differences. I don't have a philosophical
2:50
difference. As far as how I approach the
2:54
event, my setup, how I set up the event varies widely, you
3:01
have to treat it, like, two different events.
3:04
But I predominantly train the female hurdlers, whether they're
3:10
legitimate sprinters are. Not I trained them primarily
3:13
like a sprinter and the same with the mail herders.
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I train them predominantly like a sprinter even if they're not a
3:21
legitimate Sprinter. So I have that in common and
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then it's a matter of it's a different event because
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proportionately, the average male is not 9 inches taller than
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the average female. The average females like five
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for the, you know, 55, they average males about 59.
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So there's only about a 4 inch difference in their average
3:45
height. If the barrier difference is
3:47
disproportionately higher for the men, it makes it a little
3:51
bit different event in terms of how often I run at the higher
3:56
very. So there is that the other
4:00
thing? Because the barriers are so much
4:02
lower on the female side. I am, I guess a good word is
4:06
shocked. I'm shocked at the level of pure
4:11
unbridled wild aggression, that the top women in the sport
4:17
display. And like I've seen a lot of
4:19
women who run 12-7 and tough coach three women who run 12-8.
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That's the That I've ever coached.
4:26
And one of those females was fast enough to run 12 to, but
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she wouldn't take off the ground.
4:32
So when you see these women, the way they hit those things, I
4:36
think a lot of times it's more the really different between the
4:40
really, really great hurlers. And the people who run 12 6 and
4:44
12 7 who were very very good. Hurdlers is just That
4:50
unbelievably intense willingness to flirt with death, you know, I
4:56
mean, they're really, it's amazing to watch them train.
5:01
Yeah. I'm going to kind of cosine a
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little bit there, too, because I don't have a bunch of, like
5:09
large philosophical differences. Either.
5:13
I think that for the men, the faster I get them, the more
5:18
Cautious. We have to be because it's
5:21
because they just don't seem to handle the speed as well.
5:23
If they're too fast on the women's side.
5:26
I think the faster I get them. The more Fearless they have to
5:31
be to handle the event is this Ed?
5:34
Starting with death. I call it Flirting With
5:36
Disaster. I think, I think also the other
5:40
issue you have with them in is the spacing is facing big deal.
5:46
No we had Alan Soon on earlier and he talked about the you have
5:51
to have the ability to choreograph.
5:53
The event, put your feet down in the same place every single time
5:57
and that's what makes a great meal her.
6:00
I I tend to believe the same with the women.
6:03
I don't think the hurdle is a big, a deal for the women.
6:06
I do think the better harder you can make them, obviously better
6:08
her time, they're going to run. But when you talk about the
6:14
height of the heart of the relation, to where the hips are
6:16
for me is a huge It's different when it comes to men and it
6:19
comes to women. So the cues you get.
6:21
I give at takeoff and landing and such are vastly different
6:25
different. But the actual training model
6:27
itself is almost identical. Yeah.
6:34
Yeah. For me I think that the biggest
6:38
philosophical difference is come not at all in the training or
6:42
training models. It comes in the makeup of the
6:44
athletes. It's, you know, I think the
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first thing you have to have if you're going to, if you're
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looking at somebody's going to be an elite female hurdler, the
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very first thing they have to be, is aggressive and fearless.
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And I don't think, I don't think it's any.
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I don't think it's possible to be a great female hurdler, and
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not be those two things. If you're not aggressive and
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you're not Fearless, good luck on the men's side.
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It's, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of Rhythm and,
7:11
and Artistry to it, and it can, they can be different kinds of
7:16
But for the most part, you're talking about alpha alpha alpha
7:19
alpha alpha, females that run the run, the women's hurdles and
7:24
in a roomful alpha females it's the baddest one that that's a
7:27
hurdler. So I guess for me, the only real
7:30
philosophical difference is just kind of the makeup of like what
7:34
clay you pick, I think is essential That that is very well
7:40
said by all. But Lamar you you went in the
7:44
direction that I was that I was leaning towards with that which
7:48
is interesting for me as a person who used to run hurdles.
7:53
That was always what I found interesting.
7:56
Both as an athlete interacting with the coaches that I had over
8:00
the years and as a spectator of the men versus the women in the
8:05
show hurdles, it's exactly that the woman's Turtles.
8:09
Never change from Junior High. And yeah, definitely hit that
8:16
button Whitman's. Hurdles, never change from
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Junior High through, the Olympics.
8:24
And so because of that reality, they can get away with being
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just ridiculously monster bleep more aggressive than the men,
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the men I do see, see the event as a little bit more artistic as
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a little bit more difficult to navigate.
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Because of the hip issue that loses 2002 because it, because
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of the spacing issue that we all spoke to women who don't create
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space, very well can still survive with the races to a
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certain point. I could talk about running 12,
8:59
2012 Breeze, will then not so much.
9:01
It's no finite things there. But with the men's race, like,
9:05
if you're not on exactly where you need to be exactly on your
9:10
space is you're going to crash and burn or have to slow down,
9:13
man. Massively to even negotiated
9:14
area. And so, you know what I've
9:17
always found is, when we inherit kids from high school system,
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they don't understand. A lot of them don't understand
9:24
the rules and the details of how to create space and both get
9:28
spaces. So for me, as everybody else
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said, I don't think there's a philosophical difference in the
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training plan for men versus women, but I do find myself
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chewing the men, a lot differently and spending a lot
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more time on Skills, involve of negotiating, the barrier with
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the men that I don't necessarily have to do with the women until
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we get to a point where we're talking about running sub 12:7,
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like you can get away with a lot of nonsense going from 13 mids
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to under 13. But once you start trying to go
9:59
under 12 7 down to world-class, now it's time to, you know, give
10:04
you absolutely. I think the, the men's race is
10:09
currently harder to transition from food levels of Muir High to
10:13
high school to professional. And, you know, I wish they'd
10:17
raise the women's hurdles up but we all know that's not coming
10:19
any time soon. Nope, you know.
10:22
And I'll say this, you know, you talk about the rules, they don't
10:25
understand in regards to hurdles, I'm going to take it at
10:29
first a step further than even know what the rules are.
10:32
So when you start talking about in the look at you like like
10:34
you're speaking a foreign language.
10:37
I think the other thing we talked about with the men's
10:39
hurdles like you only get say 75% Stride length, especially
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depending upon your height on the Mentos.
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You get a guy like Grant or some of the taller hurdles, probably
10:50
more like 70%. So you really have to work and
10:54
find ways to choreograph that. And I think the best way I could
10:58
describe it for you is there's a lot of women's heart learns that
11:02
were a good indoors at 60. There are still pretty good
11:04
Outdoors, not so much for the men.
11:07
There's a lot of men that run well at 60 meters.
11:10
Those last five barriers because Cuz of the technical aspect
11:14
required by the men, that's what has a large effect for minute 60
11:18
orders. And so from 60 to 100 10 years
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and you know what, losses, that's a great point.
11:23
And, you know, you can see that you get this very, very clearly
11:27
with some of the men are, like, okay that's awesome.
11:31
When we go outside, there's no way they're going to survive
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that. Exactly.
11:34
Almost almost see you in a few weeks outside.
11:36
Yeah. And the and the stride length,
11:40
the sprinting stride length versus what is required?
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Between the barriers is probably the number one thing that people
11:45
don't really understand. I'm 63.
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That was a problem for me when I first started to learn how to
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run a master at my event and a lot of that, I learned, I
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learned and on our panel right here.
11:57
Mr. Anderson. But like, the women can get most
12:02
of their normal stride length in between the barriers, especially
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the smaller ones like you're Jasmin Stowers.
12:08
Maybe not so much, but your kidneys and brown has and all
12:11
them. They like they can do most.
12:13
Most of what they want to do in the real sprint.
12:15
And so I mean it's it's beautiful to watch but the I
12:20
have a deeper appreciation for the male hurdlers they can run
12:24
at the elite level because it is so much more complicated of an
12:28
event. This is so fun.
12:31
You know it has to do again with what we just discussed the the
12:35
spacing to the men is proportionately even shorter
12:38
than it is for the women. So they have that much more of a
12:41
problem and I'm not so sure it is a philosophy.
12:45
I don't know if it fits into that category.
12:48
I would call it more a regulating principle.
12:52
But the thing that I don't know if I find it at, I don't know if
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I love it because it's a challenge or because I
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absolutely hate it because there's very little we can do
13:04
about it. The thing about the hurdles, it
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does in fact, require the focus of a serial killer to run the
13:12
event, people who run the hurdles must absolutely attend
13:16
to what they're doing for a long period of time.
13:20
And I think that's true in the But it's double true in the
13:23
hurdles and I will even Venture this I think nearly every
13:28
athlete or at least certainly even the athlete I coach and I
13:31
don't think that's a particularly you know, unusual
13:33
sample. Most at least half of the
13:38
mistakes they make in training and in racists are
13:41
concentration, all they're not physical errors.
13:46
And so I think, you know, we're having to tell them all the
13:48
time, you know, get your head into it.
13:51
You can't just think about this for for hurdle units, you've got
13:54
to think about it for much longer because as soon as you
13:58
stop the race doesn't run itself, that's the hurdle you're
14:02
going to run up on the we're coaching concentration as much.
14:06
Are we? As much as we are physical
14:08
technique, which is pretty complicated words that I love to
14:13
use our Focus and retention. You know, that we have to focus
14:21
today and retain that in Focus again tomorrow on that because
14:25
that's always the problem. You know, they look like a 13
14:28
flat guy today and then tomorrow Vector 14 warm and it just
14:31
drives me. Yeah.
14:33
You know, every every athlete I've ever coach will tell you
14:35
that I've said this a thousand times in their life, my favorite
14:38
word in the English language is retention.
14:42
Because if you coach the hurdles we cannot keep going back to
14:45
square one. It's it requires too much of you
14:49
and and I love the way Vince described it.
14:54
I've always said to to hurdlers, you have to learn to be able to
14:59
do surgery in the middle of a three-ring circus.
15:04
Like you, you have to be able to be an absolute assassin in the
15:10
middle of just pure chaos. Because there's all kinds of
15:13
stuff going on within what 13 inches of you, right and left,
15:19
there's just chaos going on and you have to literally like block
15:23
all that out and take in information.
15:25
And oh by the way, interact with 10 barriers and coach has done
15:30
all these wonderful things. He's given you waits to be
15:32
stronger, he's given you. He's gonna You all the training
15:34
you can to make you faster. But but he hasn't moved the
15:38
obstacles. and so, what has to improve to everyone on this
15:45
panels point is your ability to concentrate and navigate I think
15:52
we just blew everyone's mind right now.
15:54
Everyone's feelings what safiye? Well, let's talk a little more
16:01
on coaching philosophy. And we'll delve in.
16:04
And this, this topic is special to me because of everybody on
16:08
this solar panel right now is amazing.
16:11
And what they do, what is the importance of coaching trees?
16:17
you know, from the inside perspective of being, maybe the
16:20
roots of the coaching tree that the trunk, and from the outside
16:24
perspective viewing others coaching trees, you know, what
16:30
are the importance has to you and you know what should be the
16:32
importance to those looking from the outside in I can go first on
16:36
this one. I think that coaching trees are
16:43
essential in my opinion to continued success.
16:47
In the sport, not one of us has what I would call an original
16:52
idea. And even if we do, have an
16:54
original idea, it was something that was spawned by a thought
16:58
from someone else that spark that original idea.
17:02
So I think the key with the coaching tree is you said, you
17:06
know, like you can be the trunk of the tree.
17:10
But then also while you know that might be the trunk of this
17:14
tree that I might be the branch or someone else's and
17:18
understanding how to play the role that you need to play.
17:23
And when you're developing that tree, if you're the trunk of
17:26
that tree and you invite somebody to be one of your
17:29
branches that you have to continue to feed into them so
17:32
they can therefore grow and then they can become trouble and then
17:36
that's how this work continues to get better.
17:39
So that's my thought. I just think that It's
17:41
essential. I am very proud of the folks
17:44
that I've had the opportunity to work with over the years.
17:47
And I hope the people that have worked with me or proud of me.
17:53
Yeah, that that that's very well said.
17:55
I agree that every great coach has been, well taught by
18:01
someone, or in most cases, several people.
18:04
And I to dovetail into what Lucius said like for, you know,
18:11
using me as an example. My first Mentor was Tom to Les
18:17
and I think when you and he was a wonderful mentor and I learned
18:23
In Calico really, really important things from him.
18:28
But no one person is the source of all knowledge.
18:31
And so, what I think is really a sign of growth is when you are a
18:34
young coach and you really tap deeply into your mentors, but
18:39
then maybe you see some Aspects that maybe they're not as good
18:44
at you know. And that's where, you know, you
18:48
you search for other people. Maybe who feel that those gaps
18:51
in and you begin to coherently, it's not random variety for the
18:56
sake of variety. But you sort of start out with a
18:59
layer of important things that you see gaps in.
19:03
This is where I think all good coaches are good, they see those
19:06
gaps and they look to fill them with other models, and it can
19:10
really become a beautiful thing. Inside, I want to jump in here
19:20
and I just want to say you know for me this this question is
19:25
hoof is very near and dear to my heart.
19:27
I mean he'll if I'm going to be completely honest to the rest of
19:30
the world. Two people that I've learned a
19:33
tremendous amount are on this panel and I have, you know, and
19:38
I've coached against the other one as well.
19:42
And, and I would just say, I think essential was the right
19:46
word, that's why it's why I clap essential to have coaching trees
19:53
and to be willing like the to me, the best part of my
19:59
relationship with lucious is I have A tremendous amount from
20:03
him, but I have also been blessed to have a mentor who
20:07
will listen to me. So I've also been able to teach
20:12
him a thing or two clearly, I've gotten more than I've given but
20:17
but the beauty of that is is like there's so much value in
20:21
that and, you know, knowing that what I know and what I've been
20:28
taught, you know, stands the test of time but Then also,
20:32
knowing that I have a safe enough space to throw in the
20:36
occasional idea or what if you do this, or if we change this,
20:40
what happens? And, you know, to share videos
20:44
is that's how you get to be great.
20:47
Is that to be to work with a Master Chef who will say, look,
20:53
I break eggs left handed. That doesn't mean you have to
20:57
break your eggs, this way. Try it something different.
21:01
And, you know, for me like, Of the greatest accomplishment I
21:04
think I've ever had. In my mind as a coach is having
21:08
Ben Sanderson. Tell the people how smart I was
21:10
and I had no idea that was coming cuz I didn't get that.
21:15
You don't get that very often so you better, you better nothing
21:19
else. You're smart.
21:20
I'm telling you, Vince Anderson is Mensa smart.
21:25
He always refers to himself, as as, as not that bright.
21:28
And I keep thinking, if he's not that bright, I literally must be
21:31
illiterate. So at the end of the day, you
21:35
know, to sum it up for me, I think coaching trees are
21:40
essential and they go back to that.
21:41
I think a conversation we had in the very, very first show about
21:46
mentorship and being open-minded to be able to, to teach and
21:52
learn. And so I think bringing it,
21:55
bringing it full back. I don't know what is it?
21:56
15 shows later Mentor. Mentor ship, all plays into
22:01
coaching trees. And you've got to pay, I pay
22:05
homage and honor to the people that you've been blessed to
22:08
learn from absolutely. Like, if the kids you coach
22:12
don't know where it came from. That's a, that's a problem.
22:16
Yeah. Like every kid I've ever
22:18
coached, they know who Mouse Holloway is not cuz he coat is
22:23
the coach at Florida because it, when they've had the opportunity
22:25
to have met him. And they've told him, like, we
22:28
hear your name all the time. Like, well, that's because I
22:31
want you to know from. Whence it came.
22:34
It's a beautiful point for me coaching trees has out.
22:42
Has always been something that I that has bothered me about the
22:49
way people in our profession. Look at them often that people
22:53
look at them at like something going to help them get ahead in
22:58
their business and they don't take enough time to appreciate
23:01
the relationships and the learning.
23:05
And the trust that is supposed to go into what that whole
23:11
dynamic is supposed to be about, you know, me when my kids
23:18
who've, I've trained as Collegiate, athletes, get into
23:21
coaching, that makes me smile more than anything because
23:26
they've all have come back to me and said that I was a direct
23:30
influence for them, wanting to take up this profession.
23:34
Something that they never really considered doing when they were
23:37
walking in the door to college even I've even had kids that
23:41
have gone back and started in the same place that I started at
23:45
the high school level. They just wanted to be able to
23:48
give people a bits and pieces of what they say they got from me
23:53
during those times and to me like that's that's special
23:56
that's something that that is exactly the reason I do what I
24:02
do for a living because of For and I was a kid who invested in
24:07
me and saved my life in many different, you know, different
24:11
ways. And so to me when people don't
24:16
have those connections, and don't have those interactions
24:18
and want to do superficial things to claim, that they're a
24:22
part of present, Nexus tree, father's, just cheaply.
24:28
Attach yourself to this person and call them apart of your
24:32
tree. Like, that's not, that's not Not
24:34
how this gets done, that's not how it's supposed to be.
24:37
And so for me essential is a great word, you know,
24:41
foundational is a great word, but for me it's it's even deeper
24:46
than that. The the people that that I
24:49
consider the people that consider themselves part of my
24:51
quote unquote treat our people that I've been in real battles
24:56
and have clawed through real difficult times with and you
25:01
know we've had our arguments we've had our Of strike and
25:05
we've had our struggles. But old ultimately, we learn
25:08
from each other and we came through it on the other end.
25:10
And the people my journey through this isn't it has always
25:14
been, you know, I think a little bit different because I
25:18
definitely have learned from so so many people and have respect
25:21
for so many people. But I don't know if there's
25:25
anyone out there that considers me a part of their treaty.
25:29
And I mean, like, I really don't know, I haven't asked those
25:32
questions. I haven't, I haven't had those
25:34
conversations. I think that the people that
25:37
have affected, my, my thought process of my emotions through
25:40
this business are more. So the personal relationships
25:44
that I've developed with them, not necessarily X's and O's that
25:47
I gathered from them. And that's something that I've
25:49
always, you know, found really, really interesting.
25:53
And, and Toulouse this point there are absolutely no new
25:56
ideas. We are all regurgitating, you
25:59
know, legendary thoughts and ideas from many, many people
26:04
from For us, we are all standing on the shoulders of those who
26:07
came before us. But, you know, I really think
26:11
that that coaching trees are vital to our profession.
26:15
I think they're vital to the development of our kids.
26:18
And I think when you pin righteously attach yourself to
26:23
someone who impacted your career, in a positive light, I
26:27
think that that relationship is special and it should be
26:29
cherished and I think that it should be promoted.
26:34
There's a Another aspect to this too.
26:36
Not to take it in a negative Direction, but it's something
26:40
that not everybody. And I have no one in particular
26:45
in mind here. I personally, every head coach
26:51
Mentored me and that's great. Yeah, I was lucky to have three
26:55
coaches who invested themselves into sorry call for head
27:00
coaches. I work for mentored me and I
27:03
learned a lot from them when we all Mentor people.
27:07
I know you guys all Mentor people.
27:08
You put yourself into that and you take that very seriously.
27:12
Yet what I have noticed, as a general Trend, I've had the
27:17
privilege of recommending, you know, several People for jobs.
27:24
And I get the distinct feeling. Now in a lot of situations that
27:29
the art of mentoring is getting lost a lot of head.
27:32
Coaches want to hire an assistant who is TurnKey ready
27:36
to go in? There is no such thing head.
27:41
Coaches still have to coach coaches and like, when I go to
27:46
the warm-up area, we use Lucius is an example, not only do I see
27:50
him taken right care of his kids.
27:53
I see him. Teaching his coaches.
27:57
That is necessary. And that's not a slight on those
28:01
young coaches because nobody, no matter how brilliant they are
28:05
knows everything they simply. Haven't had the experience.
28:09
You have to help them along. And I've seen a lot of young
28:13
coaches get derailed because they accepted jobs, and the head
28:18
coach at those positions thought.
28:20
Well, they have to do everything, they're ready to go.
28:22
No, you still have to work with them.
28:25
Yeah, I know that. That isn't, he incredible point,
28:29
and we watch it happening way too often and, you know, to your
28:34
point. My number one job is to coach my
28:37
coaches, to help them coach. The athletes, we have here, and
28:42
I think even if it says a bit of a season coach that you hire,
28:46
you still have to coach them to do the way that you do.
28:48
The things on your campus. The worst thing you could ever
28:51
do to a coach of any stature at any point in their careers to
28:55
Bring him into a situation. Just turn them loose and not
28:58
give them any direction because inevitably they're going to trip
29:01
and fall and then that's that's not their fault.
29:04
It's yours because you did nothing to help and you know to
29:08
speaking to something we talked about earlier, I think the
29:10
biggest thing you must understand is stop being afraid
29:13
to have the car. No, no Vince.
29:17
And I have had these long conversations, you know, we
29:21
wrote back from Europe once and it was a guy that basically got
29:24
approved and you could handle said he's like he has the
29:28
stewardess to move. We're in a bus when a woman be
29:31
wherever we are. There's always an opportunity to
29:33
learn. And so when you have those down
29:36
times in with you, you would someone that you have respectful
29:39
in the end. It's really a time of you can
29:40
speak to them find the time to have that conversation because
29:43
you never know what you're gonna You know, in a stop.
29:46
We have to stop with this rhetoric that my way is the only
29:50
way that works. No does not.
29:54
You know what, you never know. As Mark said he and I've had
29:58
conversation. He's talking like Dave, I never
29:59
thought of it like that, but I called up next as a man, I tried
30:02
that the day that was good, you know, and that's what, you know,
30:07
that's what it's all about, man, communication.
30:08
And that's an order, you know, even if you're the bridge, you
30:11
can treat teach the kid in the trunk something, right?
30:14
And you know what? There's, there's a flip side to
30:16
that because that's absolutely true.
30:19
The flip side to that is when you're in the position of the
30:24
Distance the younger coach. The many teeth you have to be
30:27
willing to take the time to be coached.
30:31
Yeah. Because if you're not you're
30:34
going to ultimately fracture that relationship and miss an
30:38
opportunity to get attached to the tree, you're going to miss
30:41
an opportunity to learn as you go forth when I was in a
30:45
fortunate. Enough position to be a head
30:47
coach and I was bringing in people and hiring them.
30:50
My number one thing is and I told every single one of them
30:53
I'm like you're gonna to leave here eventually.
30:55
And if I can't send you out to do this job properly, without
30:59
me, and I have failed, and I refused to send anybody out into
31:04
the world, with my name, attached to them, that aren't
31:08
ready for that particular, you know, that next step.
31:11
And I think that there are a lot to Vince's point.
31:14
I think there are a lot of head coaches are missing that
31:17
opportunity currently where, you know, just come in, get your job
31:21
done like well, hold on. There's some instruction that
31:25
needs to go on there. They're half that you need to
31:28
help put them on in order to not, only let them do their
31:31
jobs. Well, but do the jobs at the
31:33
standard in which you want it done.
31:34
Like it's your program, you have to know teach them the way it
31:39
doesn't get done, right? And that goes for everything
31:41
from interacting with the kids to do, in the paperwork, to
31:45
learn how to be, come a professional and talk to
31:48
administrators. I see so many people in a
31:51
position like yeah, you know, how to make a kid run.
31:53
Run faster. But you will never survive in a
31:57
position where you have to deal with Administration in a
31:59
position where you're held responsible for people
32:01
underneath. And that's that's to me the
32:05
beauty of our profession when done, right?
32:07
And the worst part of it, when done wrong.
32:10
And I understand that very rarely do people get fired for
32:16
what they're doing on the track. They get five for what they're
32:18
doing off of it. Absolute problem.
32:21
Number one. Wow, that's that was deep and I
32:27
hope everybody rewinds that about two to three times and
32:30
listens to that all over again and just really absorbs all of
32:35
them because I think that is it's being different.
32:37
Highlighted right now with our current climbing this time
32:41
having to blindly navigate everything that we're going
32:43
through. So you need to lean on, to those
32:45
that not nursing been through it, but definitely have have
32:48
some insight to it. So, coach Anderson.
32:52
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your And
32:54
thank you for your contributions everything you need.
32:58
Before we met the great one go. I don't like we never gave him a
33:03
proper introduction. Very true.
33:06
You just gotta say, hey, we know everybody knows who he is, but
33:10
you know, we need everybody to really understand the greatness
33:13
of this man. The many great things he's done
33:15
for the sport that many people. He has mentored and helped
33:18
everybody on this panel included.
33:20
And I just want to say thank you for everything you've done for
33:23
the sport. And you'll keep on keeping on
33:25
like me. I don't want to go through your
33:27
resume because we don't ya back, you know, record for three
33:30
hours. So I don't have to try to figure
33:37
out what the hell. You know, if you guys can figure
33:42
that one out. And mr.
33:56
Vance Anderson legendary. And, you know, I can only hope
34:01
to attain such a status one day in my lifetime birth.
34:05
The a you, thank you for everything.
34:10
Listen. I totally, I genuinely love you
34:13
all. And you know that and this was a
34:15
blast and it was the honor was truly mine to join.
34:21
I call ya'll I call you all the Brain Trust so so so let's just
34:26
let's be clear. Let's be clear about one thing
34:29
we have not had this conversation yet but what when
34:33
we do the goat assistant coaches Let me just say for the record
34:39
that Vince Anderson is mine. Every coach Anderson love you.
35:09
Coach Anderson by. Thank you.
35:15
Wow got it. I just got a visual felt like a
35:21
licking of the face. That's what I just saw my
35:27
apologies. My apologies only Lamar I'll ask
35:32
Lucius, are you okay? There's a storm that you are
35:34
sitting under right now, are you okay?
35:37
Ava. Okay thanks so far, very good.
35:44
Yeah see I need people to understand.
35:46
We go hard in the paint to make this show happen.
35:49
My man is, he's waiting out a tropical storm right now but
35:52
we're going to get this show done.
35:54
Yes, we are. All right, so, transitioning
35:58
transitioning into did, I'm sure we're going to ruffle some
36:02
feathers and people in and out comments about this one.
36:05
Absolutely right. Go so Across the Nation up down
36:13
left, right? And Center.
36:14
So we get to get a track in a field and a gender male one
36:19
female. Correct.
36:20
Wasn't so attractive. Female track of male field,
36:24
female field, correct. Okay.
36:27
Well I haven't gone first on any of these so far this year, I
36:32
guess I'll go first with the women.
36:35
I should say, if we're doing High.
36:37
Cool, right on the track. I'm going to start there and
36:44
going through this. There were there were a lot of
36:47
names that were in consideration for me.
36:52
But when I started looking at the criteria that I wanted to
36:57
put behind this, for me, it actually became pretty obvious
37:02
to me is Sydney McLaughlin. And here's why 13:34 in the
37:10
short hurdles 38 90 in the 300 meter hurdles.
37:16
The only 51 87 in the 400 meter dash 53, 82 in the 400-meter
37:30
hurdles. And for me, if I'm going to give
37:33
a distinction too, To the high school goat having to make the
37:38
Olympic team, while in high school is going to have to be a
37:41
part of that equation. And so for me, it's Sydney
37:45
McLaughlin. Okay.
37:50
I was with you and the reason I did not take Sydney, because I
37:56
knew that you were going to and because when you look at
38:01
Sydney's numbers, they're absolutely God either.
38:04
Absolutely just retarded. But since I couldn't fix it
38:09
because I knew that you were going to.
38:10
And I do this. I went first and pick, City
38:12
might come to the screen. I actually probably going to
38:17
surprise some people, you know, I went with Mary Kay, you know,
38:23
Mary Cain ran 159. She made 40 42 1500, Sherman,
38:27
for 28 in the mile 9024 33 thousand nine, 38, 42 miles
38:33
1545. 45k. And I think obviously the caveat
38:44
for something merriment she made a world championship team made a
38:47
final. So you'll that was great and
38:50
obviously sitting making the Olympic team was wonderful.
38:53
Also but when you look at what Mary did on the track as a high
38:56
school, that's absolutely phenomenal.
38:59
It is. well, I am 100% sure that I'm 100% sure that I'm going to
39:10
surprise some people and I will I will give this one brief
39:14
caveat for me. This particular purse.
39:20
I agree about Sid and I did the same as lucious.
39:23
Like we're not going all pics it but I picked something.
39:27
I picked someone who did something that I just don't
39:31
think anybody else can do. And I know it sounds like a
39:36
homer, but at the end of the day, And everybody runs in every
39:39
in their own State. And it is what it is.
39:40
But Leena o Leena, I be winning the state championship in the
39:46
100 200, 400 all four years and never losing to a high schooler
39:50
in the state of Indiana is Worthy of goat status, no matter
39:57
what state, because it's not like she finished her High
39:59
School career having run 54 seconds and 2410.
40:02
Like she was a monster. She beat up, you know, she beat
40:05
everybody. She raced in high school.
40:07
She written she lost a couple times in high school but not too
40:09
high school people. So at the end of the day, I'm
40:13
going to pick Lena. Because the person whose record
40:17
she broke was my cell Malone's who her only blemish was to lose
40:22
the 200 her Freshman year and literally in Indiana, pretty
40:26
much no one fought. Anyone was ever going to come
40:29
close to approaching that and Lena went out and crushed
40:32
everybody and did it. So that's my, that's my answer.
40:37
I stand pretty firmly behind it and I'm looking forward to the
40:42
rest of these answers. So, even though mailtraq now we
40:47
can go mailtraq somebody else going first, Man, you know, I'm
40:59
just going to stick steadfast to my answer and Lucius 1.
41:04
Million percent knows what my answer is the best high school
41:07
track and field athlete that I have ever seen is Michael
41:13
Norman, how did I know that was happening?
41:18
Look, here's the thing I can make cases for other people, but
41:24
at the end of the day you got to stand behind your word, right?
41:26
I called you from the high school from the California, high
41:28
school state me and I said he's the best high school track and
41:31
field athlete I've ever seen. And you said, what about this
41:35
person? This person, this person.
41:36
I said, I agree and I saw them all and we agree on it was like,
41:39
but at the end of the day, Michael Norman could have been
41:42
anything. He wanted to be in high school
41:46
and I okay, I Norman was on my list, but I knew that to West
41:52
Coast guys from wrong with Norman.
41:53
So, I'm like not fool with normal science fiction over to
41:58
the east coast. And so, I had kind of two guys
42:02
on my list. My two guys were Alan Webb.
42:05
Who I personally, you're broke a record that has stood for a long
42:10
time and I eat Break it e broken by with two seconds and other
42:14
guy was Nor laughs, you know, Noah's 10:14 and 2009 and high
42:20
school came within a spot of making the Olympic team.
42:24
That was one of the guys that Lamar and I have used to debate
42:27
about who is better allows or Norman so, but at the end of the
42:31
day, I actually I'm going to go down the web just because no, he
42:35
just he broke a record, you know, by legendary athlete and
42:39
he broke a pie over two seconds. so, I'm gonna go with Allen web
42:41
for my What a side note for Lyles and then I want to give
42:47
mad props to Lucius for going all the way outside of his.
42:52
What people would generally consider his box and pulling
42:56
pulling to distance names, out and legitimate legitimate
43:00
answers to this question. So everybody should give him mad
43:04
props for that. Now for me, This was an
43:09
interesting debate and the names that I consider two of them
43:12
about have been thrown out. There is an absolute case for
43:16
Noah Lyles absolutely Michael Norman definitely was in that
43:23
conversation for me and being a West Coast kid.
43:28
I was putting these two gentlemen up against the most
43:33
famous of the West Coast kids I think oh be more.
43:37
And you know what I mean? Like when I had to go down the
43:42
when I had to go down and go pound 4 pound across the board,
43:46
at the end of the day, it came out Michael Norman for me, but
43:51
just a little bit and the reason is because of is ability to do
43:56
all things OB. As everybody remembers Elite
44:03
craziest thing we've ever seen in the 400 met at that time
44:07
could also run a hell of an 800. And if you wanted to step down
44:11
and run the to could, some of the things he did to legitimate
44:16
teams in relay are still be. And if you don't mind grainy
44:24
YouTube videos, I challenge you all to find the OB more High
44:29
School, four by four, The Rundown, Yes, it is incredulous
44:35
and when you can and when you consider that the kid, he ran
44:39
down from, oh, I don't know. A hundred meters at the start,
44:42
didn't run slow. It's incredible.
44:45
But Michael Norman 45:19 in the 400 2006, in the 210 27, it's
44:57
the 10:27 in the event that he rarely ran that Put him just
45:02
over the top of OB for me and just over the top of Noah OB
45:07
couldn't do that in the hundred and Noah couldn't never
45:10
attempted to do in the morgue. You never attempted to do
45:17
probably I'm not sure. Michael Norman ran 10 110
45:20
hundreds in high school? No.
45:22
And and there, and there are videos of his four by one pop
45:29
off prowess, bitch. I see in that guy reason that I
45:34
picked Lyles over Norman. The Norman reveal, I was in high
45:38
school. He didn't, you didn't mi mi won
45:43
the 200 battle at the Olympic trials, and giving my answer
45:48
with the women. If liao's would have made that
45:50
team, I would have gave it to lies but he didn't.
45:53
Okay. That's fair or to give the
45:55
overall body of work and the yeah, I was just red and that if
46:00
it was tight for me. Yeah, but like the whole thing
46:05
with, with 450 threes, 3:53 is fast.
46:09
I'm sorry. That's just as fast and then to
46:11
break the record, by two seconds, legendary Legend.
46:15
Yeah. So that's what did it for me.
46:17
And then plus, you know, I'm proud of you with an OB more
46:23
common. Even though you went with what?
46:24
Norman I proud of you for. Bring it up.
46:27
Oh, bless. You can't be from the west coast
46:31
and not bring up. Okay, that's true.
46:34
I will go to move on because I loosened it get dark over there.
46:40
I will definitely say that it was a lean in at the tape of
46:43
Michael Norman /. O be more for me as well.
46:46
I got honorable mention thrown out there to William Reed.
46:50
He just only did he only did one event.
46:52
But man that he do, All right, so female field.
47:03
I mean this one was really tough and I'm just going to tell you
47:07
who I went with because the other two that you guys might
47:11
discuss. But I went with that start
47:15
cutting in. I mean, she's The National
47:20
Record holder, 10 times, you jumped over 64.
47:26
I think she was a world indoor Champion high schooler and then
47:31
thinks he has seven jumps higher than the second person.
47:36
Yeah that that last that I didn't actually know Sasha, I
47:41
don't got to the West Coast for that one.
47:46
Now this one was much harder for me to get to a place on because
47:51
this is not not my typical field of expertise.
47:56
But I'm going with Michelle Carter.
48:01
Come along with mr. Carter, I don't know how many
48:06
titles she ultimately one down there in Texas but and I ever
48:12
had, you know, she never had the opportunity to see her, see her
48:16
throw, but the dominance of what she had in her time and and the
48:24
distances she put out there and I felt like she really really
48:30
special. And I couldn't think of anyone
48:32
in the field that grabbed my attention on paper the way that
48:38
Michelle Carter did. And so that was that was my
48:42
answer, Michelle Carter. So I will say I'm proud of you
48:49
to track heads for coming up with some very quality field
48:52
event field of in people. But for me, I'm going to be
48:55
honest with you. It took me about 1 & a half
48:57
seconds to come up with my aunt Keturah orgy.
49:01
I mean, I'm sorry curb-stomped everybody from freshman through
49:05
senior year, like I mean, I think the only reason that the
49:11
only reason it's close honestly is because of Ash tie and The
49:15
fact that she was just absolutely dominant, but I'm
49:20
just not sure that any High School, female jumper, really
49:26
even wanted to be in a meet with with Keturah long jump, triple
49:30
jump or whatever. And that didn't change much in
49:33
college. I don't think there's anybody
49:38
with in like six years of her birthday.
49:41
No, I mean, like, like, she's one of those kids.
49:44
Like, if you start at t-ball and go all the way up to like, you
49:46
know, 12, you she beat everybody.
49:50
Well, I'm gonna give you a couple more people that are
49:52
definitely in that League. I'm going to start with Shelby
49:54
Lon. No, I don't hundred ninety eight
49:58
feet in The discus. She has the best TenMarks ever.
50:03
In high school from 190 16 to 18, 1989, the other person is an
50:09
a-hole and a whole has the top five all-time marks in them.
50:15
So yeah, they did that. They definitely deserve some
50:18
mention. But I last time because of the
50:21
World Championships, what put it over here Alright, so now we got
50:26
the field guy who is god? Well I I'll go first and this
50:32
one again. This one wasn't tough for me,
50:35
and if you saw them compete in high school, I don't think it
50:37
would be, it would be too tough Donovan, kill Martin.
50:43
Miss High School marks are 72 17-6, wrote a national record,
50:51
in the decathlon, three times, you know, like literally, there
50:58
were people who thought that even going from the from the
51:01
12-pound shot to the 16-pound shot that he was going to win
51:04
the incident when the NCAA title as a true freshman, which is
51:07
ridiculous because you're going up, 3 inches in hurdles and
51:10
going up four pounds and shot, but that's how much better than
51:12
everybody. The LT was and to be a, to be a
51:16
combined of enter and manage to be an elite, high jumper.
51:20
I'm sorry also jump, 25 feet in high school, so you got seven
51:23
feet, plus 25 feet plus and 17 feet plus, which is even better
51:28
than the ridiculous High School marks are gone or Nixon.
51:30
So for me it's it's it's Donovan kill Martin.
51:35
So how long do they take you to figure that one out?
51:39
90 seconds or so. Okay, took me about nine seconds
51:42
to figure out mine. I'm just gonna say this 81 feet,
51:47
three and a half inches and I'm done.
51:49
Michael Carter. I mean he that record has been
51:54
around for 41 years. I didn't take it from anybody
51:58
else. I knew someone was going to take
51:59
that way and he still four feet farther than anybody after 41
52:03
years. Okay.
52:05
And he's got five times, he threw Over 70 111.
52:10
And so it took me like that long, Michael Kors.
52:15
Well I'm going to I'm going to actually change mine and agree
52:23
with Lamar Lamar convinced me for the exact same reason that I
52:30
gave the issue to normal. I'm going to take, I'm going to
52:34
agree with Lamar and deferred to kill Martin over Carter.
52:38
Which was my answer. One event purchases the array of
52:43
events, if it's only one bullet missing.
53:26
I greatly appreciate greatly, appreciate that.
53:31
I do want to give a side shot out to one Tommy.
53:35
Skipper, who was National Record holder in In the pole, vault,
53:39
and national leader in the javelin and also a 6-10 high
53:43
jumper at the same time, in high school.
53:46
Yeah. That's great and I'll say this
53:50
will never gonna have this conversation for Tommy
53:51
Skipper's. Definitely.
53:52
Until I saw Flamingo, Tommy Skippers the best freshman I've
53:57
ever seen in college track until flamingo.
54:02
Okay. Good stuff.
54:04
Good stuff to know suddenly introduced a new segment this
54:13
evening. We're going to be going forward.
54:15
We're going to start closing out our shows with our heartbeat
54:18
cross. In this segment, we're going to
54:21
highlight people who have personally affected, our
54:23
coaching careers put us on our paths have influences that whole
54:27
entire Spectrum. So, did you forget a question?
54:31
I didn't forget a question. I omitted it only Has added some
54:34
way. Okay, I'm just making sure I
54:35
just make sure I apologize. No, you're okay.
54:38
I want to make sure that we can still see them.
54:41
Yeah, that's a good idea. I apologize.
54:50
So again, we will start doing this going forward and closing
54:53
on our sharp, our show with the heartbeat prompts lucious.
54:59
Why don't you go and start us off?
55:00
Yeah, and again, the idea of the Hardy props is Is to give people
55:04
as we as old folks like to say give people their roses your
55:08
compliments while they're alive. And so, I'm going to start my
55:12
mind off this week. I'm going with Brooks Johnson, a
55:15
man that I met him when I was 17 years old.
55:20
And from the very first day, I met him, he's done nothing but
55:23
challenge me to be a better. Human, the better Coach, I
55:27
became the better, he's challenged me to be.
55:31
I don't ever have a conversation with Why don't walk away from
55:34
that conversation feeling? Like man, I just got better.
55:38
So I want to thank Brooks for being in for his unbelievable,
55:42
width is colorful phrases. His ability to make the art of
55:48
cursing like this happens, you know?
55:53
And for you young guys out here, don't ever debate with Brooks
55:57
Johnson. You have no chance.
55:59
So that's my guy Bruce Johnson. I'm going to jump in here and
56:04
I'ma be quick my guy and and somebody I've literally known
56:09
since I was 18 years old and somebody who had this profound
56:13
of an effect on me, my mother still remembers him from when he
56:17
recruited me in 1989, I've gone from thinking he was like my
56:23
dad's to joining the same fraternity is he's in being
56:28
welcomed into the coaching fraternity and being honored
56:31
enough to coach against him and that's one mystery.
56:33
Curtis fry. Well for me appropriately.
56:42
So mine is, Vince Anderson and I met Vince originally.
56:50
Well, all I was transferring from UCLA and trying to figure
56:54
out where I wanted to go to school now.
56:56
Ultimately, I chose Curtis pride and University of South
56:59
Carolina, but of all the coaches, who recruited both
57:03
coming out of high school and during my time as a transfer,
57:08
Vince As the most authentic, he was the person who I absolutely
57:13
had the best connection with and the person that that I trusted
57:19
the most of all the coaches that I met.
57:22
There's just something real about bits and to his credit the
57:28
fact that he ultimately lost the recruiting battle to a rival
57:31
school, he never held that against me.
57:34
And he remained, you know, a good person to me to the point
57:40
that when I graduated and wanted to come moved to Knoxville
57:44
Tennessee to be under his tutelage.
57:47
If I post-collegiate time, he open, welcome me with open arms.
57:52
It wasn't even a more than a 5-minute conversation.
57:56
Said absolutely you be here anytime you want and moving
58:01
forward in that. You know my post collegiate
58:04
career lasted about two seconds because I tore my hamstring on
58:08
Immediately and then Vince got the job at Texas A&M and went on
58:13
to new his new path. But as I started getting into
58:19
coaching, almost immediately after Collegiate time as an
58:23
athlete, Vince Anderson is the reason that I'm in this
58:27
profession right now, Vince thought enough of me and thought
58:33
enough of the work that I was doing with high school age kids
58:36
in the city of Knoxville Tennessee to write me my first
58:40
and what Still Remains to this day?
58:42
My best letter of recommendation ever and I asked him to write me
58:47
a letter of recommendation because truth be told he was the
58:50
only person that I felt. I knew well enough or had any
58:52
kind of real connection with to ask.
58:55
To do that for me. I had no idea what he thought of
58:58
me as a coach and the word that that man puts a paper.
59:02
I was going to embarrass him and read the whole thing but I will
59:05
have that kind of time. He is the reason that I'm in
59:09
this profession and any of us that have come up through this
59:11
profession, we all understand. It's about who, you know, not
59:16
necessarily what you know on so many levels and I would not be
59:20
sitting here today, I would not have the career that I've had if
59:23
it was not for Ben Sanderson co-signing meet at a time in the
59:27
world where I'm not even sure I had earned the right to be
59:29
cosine by that man, but he put his name next to mine.
59:33
He put his trust in me and I've always wanted to honor his
59:37
example throughout my career. So VA and I said earlier,
59:41
Legend, thank you your hamstrings going to him right
59:46
now too. So I was definitely not his
59:48
fault that was definitely. Yeah, so to give my two cents.
59:55
So much website is just saying about, you know, having that
59:58
person be why they're here and where they are, and what they've
1:00:01
been through, not a lot of people know who she is and to
1:00:06
me, she's cherished in my life because of what she's done for
1:00:09
me and who she's been in my life since we were 18 years old.
1:00:13
But that's Kristy Persaud because without her, I would
1:00:15
have never gotten back into coaching.
1:00:17
I had completely left the sport of track and field.
1:00:20
I was a bartender at the time. I was busy creating a family and
1:00:24
She has like no that's cute but you're going to have to coach, I
1:00:28
need you and she forced me, you know.
1:00:30
And because she knew I would take the baby and I took it and
1:00:34
I haven't looked back since January of 2009 so I owe it all
1:00:38
to her because what's out that little push in that little nudge
1:00:41
I mean I would not be sitting here sharing for screens or four
1:00:45
pictures before three of you. So Fully and wholeheartedly and
1:00:51
editor for the rest of my life. And she knows that and I love
1:00:53
heard it out, so thank you. But before we completely lose
1:00:59
where you mask, when I don't wear masks.
1:01:02
Now we know it's going to pleasure you know and I
1:01:09
appreciate all three of you for long me to sit on the same
1:01:11
screen as VA so that's awesome. And to share the screens with
1:01:16
the three of you. I'm cold Really thankful because
1:01:21
you bring so much light to my life every week that we do this.
1:01:24
So and I'm sure everybody else all 150 ish subscribers that.
1:01:28
We have a leaky know how we feel about.
1:01:32
You girl, we couldn't do it without you, someone's got to
1:01:36
push a chord. So thank you so much for your
1:01:43
contributions gentleman and until next week we will see each
1:01:47
other then Goodnight, goodnight, with the last.
1:01:54
Come on, come on. It's the whole summer if not for
1:02:20
this quarantine these four corners wouldn't be here, but we
1:02:24
have to start learning. You gotta understand.
1:02:26
Rapes, gotta catch Stars. Show you how to fight for, show
1:02:30
us who you are, you lack experience but still you want to
1:02:33
tell and who is have to talk to you, sir?
1:02:35
Got a small heads prevail when the backbone strong, gotta keep
1:02:39
it from an old boat last long faster fell, this eldest a song
1:02:44
and if you don't check yourself and that's wrong just trying to
1:02:48
give you the real. Which asked for so why do you
1:02:50
keep cutting us off to a small? We put it in slow-mo what you
1:02:54
fast for it. Well, that's a wrap ladies and
1:03:06
gentlemen, if you like what you heard give us a rating and
1:03:09
review on iTunes and hit that subscribe Button as well.
1:03:12
We encourage you to connect with others and share the podcast on
1:03:15
your social media looking forward to next time when we
1:03:18
connect you with another great track and field connection.
1:03:21
Bye guys.