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The Owner's Room: When You Feel a Shift Before You Can Name It · Integrity at Scale™

• It's strange as hell to be in a winter period like a state of dormancy. You've accepted that you're in this winter period, you're not doing anything new, and in fact, you're like sloughing things off, but you have some deep down sense that there's already shit taking shape. Thank you for being here with me. You are listening to the Culture Focused Practice podcast, and I am your host, Dr. Tara Vossenkemper. We are talking about that space in leadership, that space during the winter dormancy period. The owner's room is, I think you know this by now, but just in case, way more like free flowing of a conversation. It's a series of questions followed by one or two scenarios, just one for the day. And it's not teaching focused. It's not content heavy. It's really about the internal experience of leadership and group practice ownership. So if we're thinking about today's episode, what we're really thinking about is that moment in leadership where something begins to shift inside of you before you can even fully name what it is. Nothing looks different on the surface. The work kinda looks the same from the outside. The season is sort of the same, you know, you're still in that winter space. You're still really stripped back. It's still muted and quiet and restful and underneath that frozen fucking water, there's something that's starting to move. Maybe it's like a subtle shift in the undercurrent. Maybe it's just some of the ice starting to melt from the winter. There's a little more movement within the water from the fishes and the things that live within. My point in all of this is that the movement, it doesn't have to be big. There's not this giant breakthrough. There's not some major dramatic something that is taking place or has taken place. It's just that you might feel something or sense something before you can even really articulate or describe or understand what it is. And true to form with the owner's room. That's the space that I'm in right now, and I think this also is a universal experience for group practice owners, for leaders at group practices. I think it's part of how leaders evolve where that quiet phase, the dormancy, the winter results in something forming that's like just, just outside of your reach and you're not inclined or interested in forcing it to develop and you're not even really sure of what it is entirely. So rather than continue talking loosely about a concept, let's dig into the questions. Much like all the other owners room episodes, there is no prep with these questions, so my answers are forming as I'm talking, and just like you, I have very little idea as to where they're going to go. So let's do this. Question number one, what shifts in your leadership identity when you're no longer performing growth and are simply letting yourself densify? I like that language. What shifts in your leadership identity when you're no longer performing growth and are simply letting yourself densify? You know, what's coming up for me right now is pruning apple trees. Like there's something about not focusing on growth or not performing growth, or not focused on outward markers of expansion or of growth or of getting bigger or scaling or what the fuck ever, you know, any of those things. And that in not focusing on those things, you're in essence allowing yourself to turn inward and really kind of deeply drill down. And I don't think, I mean deeply drill down like you're trying really, really hard and you're doing all of this work to try to heal or be better or learn as much as you can. I don't, I don't think I mean that because I think there's like deepening where you are maybe ingesting a lot of information or you are doing a lot of therapy or you are, you know, soliciting a lot of feedback or you are actively seeking to grow while you are like drilling inward and down. I think that is different from resting inward. Like there's something different about, I'm actively trying to grow or evolve as a person, as a leader, et cetera, compared with i'm in a state of dormancy. To me, dormancy implies that there's no real intense effort almost in any direction. Like it's less about turning inward and drilling down. I mean, I use the language drilling down, so you would think that I'm okay with it, but I feel like maybe that implies some level of intensity that I don't think is there with dormancy. So I'm thinking with the winter dormancy, when you're not performing growth, when you are turning inward and like densifying, let's go with the, the language from the question we're densifying internally, which isn't necessarily the same thing as drilling down. That whole experience is different because you're not trying hard to become something different. I feel like the moving away from performing growth and moving into densifying. Again, in my mind, this is all kind of contextualized with you're in a dormant state, you're in this winter season of your leadership. In my mind, when you are letting yourself densify and you're not performing growth, and this is all contextualized in being in a dormant winter hibernation type state, it almost feels like it's becoming more of yourself. It feels like it's. Maybe it is like trees in winter and dormancy like the root systems, I'm pretty sure that's when they develop a little bit more. So, you know, if in spring and summer there's a lot of nutrients that are going out to the branches and the leaves in winter, it's like everything sort of like comes down and strengthens the root system. Oh, I hope I'm not making that up. And if I am, it seems like it makes sense. So we'll just go with it and assume that that's the case. Let's say that we're all trees and we're all densifying our root system in winter states. I think if I apply that to being human and densifying, then the difference between drilling down with like intensely trying to learn and grow and become a better person, you know, which is an internal experience, but also drilling down and densifying is that with densifying and attempting to become more of your own, it's almost like it entails a stillness and a need to not even ingest anything and just to hold still and see how things have taken shape around you and assess what shit actually fits or doesn't. So then if I bring all of this all the way back to what shifts in your leadership identity, I think that what ends up shifting is reflective of whatever it is that you might need to let go of when you've densified and held still for long enough. You've been able to see the things that you are outgrowing. So what I can say for myself is that in this wintry state that I'm in, very literal because there is actually snow and it's been like 15 fucking degrees where I live right now. But also metaphorical or figurative, same thing. It's not really, I never remember the difference. My point is when I apply this to myself and I'm thinking about densification and I'm thinking about what shifts in my leadership identity have taken place, what I have realized is there are very clear things that I want no part of. And there are things that I thought were part of the vision that instead feel like obligations if I am the one that needs to do them coupled with an unwillingness to fulfill an obligation that doesn't actually serve me. It feels like my body is just done like, like I'm just done. My body is just done. None of this is interested in doing something that isn't in alignment. And it doesn't even feel like it's a choice that I'm making. It feels like it's a truth that I'm finally fucking accepting. And maybe that's like the crux of the shift with the leadership identity is that when we can densify, and I think there might need to be multiple passes at this. I don't think this is a one and done experience. I don't think anything's ever one and done except death. But my thought is maybe that is the crux of it all. The repeated and continued and evolving sense of acceptance and maybe competence. Maybe, I mean, I don't wanna say certainty 'cause I don't really like that language, but like a pretty high level of certainty about what should and shouldn't be something that I spend my time on or with. And when that happens, it also impacts every single other person around me in my business and also in my home life. You know? But in business especially, because if I'm not willing to do something, then that something isn't going to happen in the way that maybe we thought it was going to be happening. And so that means something has to shift whether it gets removed entirely, if it doesn't fully fit in with the VTO or with your vision. Or it reflects the need for a new role on your accountability chart, or it's something that is passed over to a person who's actually more interested in doing it. And then the task is, how do we ensure this is done in a quality way while stepping back from it at the same time? I like that question, actually. That's a really fucking good question. I think even that notion of growth and density and drilling down and intentionality versus. Passive, like active versus passive. It just brings up a lot. Like there's a lot of directions. I think this conversation specifically with regard to that first question, there's a lot of directions it could go. So I think that's probably why I like it. And now I really am moving on to question two. So question two, what's the sensation of feeling something forming far beneath the surface long before it has language or shape? Ooh, this is interesting. What is the sensation feeling something forming beneath this far beneath the surface, long before it has language or shape. Hmm. Imminent is the word that comes to mind. Inevitable. Like there's a sense of inevitability, like, this thing is happening regardless of my involvement or not. It's like a, you know, when a storm is brewing, like you can tell, like the air just feels fucking different. The leaves look different, the color, when you walk outside, there's something slightly different about the literal way that the world looks around you. The felt sense of the world around you, the smell, the, you know, all of it. There's just, there's a. Difference and, and you have this sense, this sort of just understanding there's a storm coming, like there's something happening, there's a storm coming. And really, you know what would be interesting actually, is if the storm coming is a result of growing up in a specific area or if the like atmospheric conditions feel the same here compared to, I'm sorry, I should say in the States for example, compared to like Australia or Asia or fuck Russia. You know, like does it feel the same everywhere or does your felt sense actually reflect the, you know, area that you grew up in, the region you grew up in? So that's a side conversation. But my point remains the same. Which is that the sensation of feeling something forming far beneath the surface is fine. I, it feels so funny saying that, but it's like, no, it's, it's fine. I almost, you know, it's sort of like you, you feel something in your gut like, I am intuiting or I'm, I'm sensing like there are some major shifts that are happening and if they're not major yet, there will be a major shift that happens. There's gonna be something big that's coming, whether it's identity level, whether it's related to something that's being produced, whether it's related to shifts in conceptualizing your practice or the way you just exist in the world. All of that is sort of unknown, and I don't think it needs to be known. I think that's what I mean by it just feels fine. Like in my body it feels a certain way, but then emotionally there is this feeling at peace or sense of peace with this thing developing and forming without knowing what it's going to be or what it's going to look like, and all of it collectively just feels fine. Again, it feels inevitable. I think maybe that's why it feels fine. It's like, well, I mean it's gonna happen, and when it does, we'll figure it out. Like whatever needs to happen will happen, when I reach that point or when we reach those points, the only option is to figure out what to do next. So we're just left with, it's okay. It's okay. Plus, I still do feel in a state of dormancy, and so I'm not really interested in doing any fucking work at being a little gopher digging around or a squirrel trying to find all these acorns. Like I don't, no, I'm not. I'm not interested in any of that. Whatever the thing that is developing or forming or shifting, whatever the hell it is, it's gonna happen in the amount of time that it needs to happen, and I will be here and highly likely closer to a state of spring, if not in a state of spring when it's ready to be expressed. And so altogether it's fine. I think it's obvious that I don't mean that in a flippant, like it's fine. No, it's fine. It's totally fine. Totally fine. Don't mean it like that. I mean, sincerely, like it feels fine. I feel at peace. It feels inevitable. I feel comfortable through all of it. We're good. And I also am really, really hoping that that's the same experience for you because it's nice to feel in this place rather than feel a sense of urgency or a level of frantic energy. Like I know that space well too. And I'm, I'm, you know, I'm tired. I don't wanna be there. Okay, so question number three. What does it feel like when rest stops being a strategy? Ooh, and starts becoming a state you're actually inhabiting. That is a great question. It feels much calmer. It feels much easier. It feels unforced and unhurried and peaceful and less scary than it did before I got here. That's what I'll say. And I don't even know if I have much more to add to that. I'm not trying to, you know, not give an answer, but it just feels so much simpler being here than it did before I got here. It also feels clearer. Like I feel like things are more clear. I think that's a clarity piece with the question number one, like when you densify and you're sort of holding still and what opens up around you. I feel that sense of clarity about things and with that definitely comes a sense of relief. And also I think a sense of almost like grounded confidence. So I, I don't wanna say arrogance or like, um, all knowing, or, you know, I got this, I got, I'm totally fine, like I got this. It's not that, but there's a, a, you know, like a sense of comfort. Like I, I feel grounded, but also confident about the moves, confident about holding, still confident about decisions that need to be made, and confident about enacting those decisions, which is very different from like a spring or even like a summer type energy. It's much harder to let go of things at that point. I think it's hard to let go of things, period. But I think, I know for me, and I can imagine for a lot of people, maybe not everybody, when I get into excited, like building creative type spaces, it's hard for me to say no and also to let go of something that I think could maybe be beneficial. So I feel like in general, I have trouble with pruning. Like pruning isn't something I do probably very well. I would say that then is especially true in like the spring, you know, into the summer. And what I am seeing right now is I don't feel really any sort of way about letting things go. It feels fucking relieving honestly, to be able to say, oh, actually no, that's not it. Like, that doesn't serve me. That doesn't really serve people. This isn't it. And I, I don't have any energy, I don't have any, any interest in expending energy to this thing. Duh Tara. Fucking hell, as I've literally said that out loud. I'm just thinking about again, trees. Where does their energy go? It goes to their root systems and densifying and, you know, deepening and making sure that we're gonna be healthy for the coming spring. Literally saying out loud, right then I don't have any energy to expend towards this thing that is pulling back from your leaves. That is me saying, yeah, that you don't have energy for that. Don't do that thing. You don't even wanna fucking do it. Why are you sending energy over there? You're not even interested in this thing. That's not the direction you wanna grow. That's not where the sun is coming that like stop doing that. But I think that clarity and the energy and the dormancy in the winter, all of it sort of comes together in terms of being able to like see things clearly because of my fuck eventual acceptance and resignation at inhabiting a state of rest and dormancy rather than trying to force it, or like the question is asking, using rest as a strategy and not, you know, a state that I'm inhabiting. So, cool. I am gonna stop with question three and move on. Question number four, what does sloughing off old structures, identities, or expectations make space for, even if you can't yet name what's coming? Oh, that's an interesting question. I mean, I think the answer is, I don't know. I don't know what it makes space for in terms of like, if you can't see what's coming or name what's coming, like sure an answer is that you're making space for what's coming. You know, that's a, an obvious sort of simple answer. But I think when you're in it, you're in that like limbo space between I'm, I'm shutting things off, or I'm turning things away, or I'm sloughing this dead skin off my body for what I don't know. And I, I know for me historically that I don't know, is not pleasant. It's not like a fun or a nice space to be in. And so I think I, again, I don't mean to keep repeating myself. And so I think it, you know, took being in dormancy, inhabiting dormancy and feeling a sense of comfort with doing it. To also feel a sense of comfort with, I don't know what's coming next. So it feels fine that something is sort of shifting and forming. I feel a sense of peace and inevitability. All of those feelings I do not think I would have anticipated. I don't think I anticipated that at all with regard to the, you know, conversations about dormancy or thinking about winter. I don't even think those were on my horizon. So it's like interesting and weird to be here and talk about, I don't know what's coming, but it's also okay. When I compare that to, you know, what I would've said six months ago, like very, very different things. But what I will say, sloughing off old structures, identities, and expectations if I don't complete that question. So if I don't think about it in terms of what does this make space for, even if you can't yet name what's coming, and instead I just say, what is it like to slough off old structures identity or expect identities, excuse me, or expectations. I will say a relatively similar thing to what I've been saying the whole time is that it is relieving, it feels not even liberating. It feels accurate. It feels healthy. It's like a snake shedding its skin. It's like a fucking butterfly coming out of its cocoon. It's like a hermit crab walking into a bigger shell. Like it feels like it is the accurate expression of what is coming next or what needs to happen. That's what it feels like. And I think maybe it feels that way because of all of the like anticipation and probably, you know, grief, I think dormancy and like the dread and the terror of stepping into winter. Uh, maybe that was all for me And potentially for you too, like emotional prep for once you finally land and you hold still, the sloughing off of the structures and the identities and the expectations, the ability to rest inward and densify is there because the emotional processing has taken place already. And so maybe if I hadn't done a lot of the sort of processing around grief and like the terror at a void, and you know, that had not taken place, I think maybe this sloughing off of identities and expectations would feel a little more scary than what it actually does. Instead, it just feels right. It feels accurate, it feels true, it feels reflective of what is and who I am, rather than reflective of me trying to be and do too much or be and do things just slightly in the wrong direction. I think maybe that's a more fair and kinder self-assessment. Okay, let's do question five. What does leadership look like when it's guided by felt sense rather than momentum, urgency, or next steps? Goodness gracious. What does leadership look like when it's guided by felt sense rather than momentum, urgency, or next steps? I don't know. I mean, maybe it looks like quiet confidence. Maybe it looks like more decisiveness. Maybe it looks like less flakiness, or being less wishy-washy, or being more candid or just direct when you're saying things. Maybe it looks like more clarity on vision and your role within your group? I think it probably just looks a lot of different ways depending on the person. So if the question is, what does leadership look like when it's guided by felt sense rather than momentum, urgency or next steps, I think for some people this probably looks like doing way less and in an entirely different direction, and maybe for others, this looks like doing more of a very specialized thing and maybe for others, this looks like selling your group or becoming a consultant to your group instead of any sort of owner operator or visionary operator. Or maybe it looks like stepping back from a leadership role if you're not the owner and you're on a leadership team. I think for me, this has definitely looked like clarity, just clarity on some of the next steps for the practice. Like some of the things that were kind of interwoven with vision and then my role with them. Like, no, they, they, they won't remain the same, you know? So wanting to start something at the group and as we've been talking about it over the past few months, the idea was that I would play a part in this thing. You know, I would be sort of, um, the face of it 'cause it's such a culture build such a community oriented thing, you know, that we were gonna kick off. And it just dawned on me that I am not doing that. I don't want anything to do with that and it doesn't make sense that I do it. 'cause if I start that thing, then I'm the face of it and I'm tied to this. And if I want that thing to be developed, and if I do think that it makes sense for the future of the practice, then there has to be another way that it happens because it won't be me. That's the sort of clarity that I'm talking about, where it just sort of became very obvious to me that. That's not it. No, I'm not doing that. Like my, my body is just telling me no, like, nope. If I'm feeling any semblance of dread or if I'm not feeling here, this is actually better. If I'm not feeling like a surge of power and interest and energy around something, then it's a no. I think that feels more clear, and I don't mean power, energy, et cetera, to do something right now and like let's make it happen. You know? I don't mean that, but I mean, even the idea of doing something in the future or the idea of like, yeah, what does the direction look like? If I'm not feeling that strength internally and a strong sense of groundedness about it, then the answer is just no. The clarity piece, like what does leadership look like when it's guided by that felt sense, that clarity piece around, oh, that's a no, then just comes out cleanly. Then I say, oh no, that doesn't make sense. We're not gonna do that. Or, oh yeah, I'm not gonna do this. We can have somebody else, but it's not gonna be me. For all of these reasons, maybe including, it doesn't actually make sense with my role and the direction that my role is moving. And yet again, this might be very different for you. So of course I think there's gonna be universality in all of this. Probably more about the felt sense and like the experience, but the way that it manifests for you is likely gonna be different than the way that it manifests for me, you know? Okay, so we've got one more question and then we are gonna wrap it up and move to the scenario. Question six, how does your internal pace change when there's no deadline, no audience, and no need to justify doing less. This is a good question. This is a really good question. How does your internal pace change when there's no deadline? No audience and no need to justify doing less? Hmm. Okay, so let me say two things. First, I like working. I like find fulfillment in being able to grapple with things, and conceptualize things and create things. And I enjoy work for the sake of work. Like that's, I just enjoy it. That feels important to say because I don't know if the pace would change. There's, this is nuanced, so just gimme a sec. I don't know if the pace would change necessarily, but I do think that the assignments, so to speak, would change, and if the assignments changed, then what I spent my time on and how long I spent on it would likely change as a result. So if I didn't have deadlines and tasks associated with random things related to the group. I would probably spend more time on projects that I felt a calling to do at the time that I felt called to do them. But as I'm working on a project, that to me is where the internal pace doesn't really change, because if I'm enjoying working on something, I'm wanna dig into it. Like I'm, I'm enjoying working on it, and so I wanna spend time with it. I wanna wrestle with it, I wanna create it, you know, I wanna do all of those things. And so I don't actually see the pace changing as I'm working on something that I want to work on. What I do see is that there is less urgency and less frustration honestly, at having to complete tasks that I don't really wanna do, but do have a deadline and that have been blocking me, or that are blocking me from working on a project that I actually want to work on. And so, even as the visionary at the practice, there's absolutely things that I don't really want to do. They make sense in my role the way that it's defined right now, and I might not necessarily want to do them, you know? And that small percentage of stuff is low enough that I do still get to spend time focusing on projects. Even some of those projects, those projects might be more related to a rock that I'm trying to get figured out and work on. You know, rocks are quarterly goals for people who don't know EOS or who don't know Jim Collins, they're the most important priorities for the quarter that you're in. So I might be spending time working on rocks, which are connected to our vision and super fucking important for getting us to move forward, you know? But there are times that I don't wanna spend time working on my rock. I'd rather chase some fucking wild hair that I found and follow all these rabbit holes wherever they might lead me to. So I don't even know if it's, it's not, it's not the pacing that changes. It is the ability to move freely in the direction that I want to, without any regard for other responsibilities or people or outcomes or tasks or, you know, deadlines. I love that question though. I think there is something to be said for thinking about if I didn't have this audience or this deadline or this team or this need to justify whatever I'm doing, you know, would my pace change? And if so, how much? And if my pace wouldn't change, would what I'm working on change? And if so, what would I actually be working on compared to what am I currently working on? That's interesting. That's interesting to think about. Okay. So let's do this scenario now, which is kind of lengthy for a scenario. It's a little bit longer than normal. Scenario number one, it will be our one and only for the record. A group practice owner has scaled back for the first time in years announcing to her team that she's stepping into a quieter season, but now she's noticing that the quiet is starting to create questions she does know how to answer. Hmm. Instead of the relief she expected, she feels this strange internal weight, not burnout, not dread, just a density she can't interpret yet. Her team keeps checking in with subtle comments like, so what's next? And she can't tell whether they're being curious or anxious, or they're just trying to read her. She worries, she's giving off the wrong impression because even though she feels something shifting underneath, she genuinely has nothing concrete to offer them. Still we go on. When she sits in meetings, she feels more grounded but also more disconnected from the usual momentum and she isn't sure if that's wisdom or withdrawal. She can sense micro movements inside of her, like the grounds adjusting, but she can't tell if it's the beginning of something or just the noise of slowing down. The more present she tries to be, the more aware she becomes of the difference between her external stillness and her internal motion. And she's not sure if she should name any of this to her team. Oh, that's interesting. Or keep it unspoken until she understands what the hell is actually happening. That is super interesting. I don't know why you wouldn't name it with your team. Even if you don't know what it is, I never see the harm in saying what's coming up for you or sharing some of your internal state with your team. I think broadly speaking, it does more good than harm. This is assuming that you're not, you know, emotionally dumping on your team and trying to use them to regulate you. That does more harm than good. But assuming that you're scaling back as a group practice owner, you're announcing to your team, you stepped into a quieter season and your team is checking in with you with little comments like, okay, what's next? I think I would probably just externalize all of this. I think I would ask. Are you anxious about the stillness? Are you wondering what's going on for me? Are you just curious about what might be brewing? I might just check in with my team when they ask like, you know, no shame, no anger, no negative anything. There's no negative connotation to the question, but I am interested in what's driving you to ask me that. And then, you know, I might say, are you feeling anxious about not knowing what's next? Are you know, and I might sort of run through some of those feelings that I'm curious about and I might just externalize, I am concerned that I'm giving off this impression of maybe indifference or disconnect or apathy. But the reality is that I feel something shifting and I don't know what it is yet. And so the result is that I don't have anything to say. I don't have anything to offer. And even the sense, you know, it's interesting too, the sense of feeling more grounded, but also more disconnected from the usual momentum, and she isn't sure if that's wisdom or withdrawal. Hmm. How would you discern between the two? How would I discern between the two? I would probably discern between the two by also reflecting on the rest of my life. You know, am I withdrawing everywhere? Do I feel disconnected everywhere? Am I apathetic anywhere else? Am I feeling a sense of peace about the disconnect with the increased sense of groundedness, or am I just feeling like the remnants of burnout, you know, something like that. The sense that you might feel more grounded, but also disconnected from the usual momentum. I can understand questioning like is this wisdom or withdrawal? But if I hear that, I mean, to me it reflects the evolution of you in leadership. It reflects the evolution of being an owner, being in leadership, being a visionary, I think for most people in visionary roles or owner roles, the idea is that eventually you're working yourself away from things and so the disconnect will continue to grow and I, I think that also we need to be careful not to conflate or misconstrue disconnect with like emotional indifference. I think there is a healthy level of emotional disengagement or emotional, or maybe even physical disconnect that's not the same thing as feeling indifferent or emotional withdrawal, so to speak. Me feeling more grounded but more disconnected from like the hubbub of the practice. I think that indicates growth in the direction of a true visionary and a eventual visionary consultant to the group. I think that also indicates high trust in your leadership team, high trust in your full team period. It would reflect that the systems and the processes and the workflows are all operating really smoothly and seamlessly. I think ultimately it seems like that is a healthy process and evolution, and I do understand questioning, you know, is this withdrawal or wisdom? I understand too anytime I step further away, I feel anxious that that distance is not relieving to me. I don't feel relieved from distance. I feel anxious with distance and it takes me some time to get used to the space now, between me and whatever the other thing is, whether it's a structure or a role or my clinical team or you know, whoever, it takes me a minute to really recalibrate and kind of accept and embrace, okay, this is okay. I'm good, and now I'm comfortable with this space. You know? I think also it's interesting that the more present she tries to be, the more aware she becomes of the difference between her external stillness and her internal motion. It does seem like all of these things are really pointing toward or towards, I never know if it's with an S or without, and maybe both are appropriate, but I don't know when. So I think all of these things are pointing in the direction of, see, avoid the word altogether in the direction of this person seems to be evolving as a leader, and the question of should she share this with her team or not, because of being unsure about what's actually happening. To me that's answered by the values of your group. You know, our values are candor, authenticity, ownership, depth. Like if, if our values are these things, then to live them out, it would almost require that I am honest with my team and that I say, Hey y'all, this is what's going on. I don't exactly know what's happening. Something's brewing. This is how I've been feeling. I have no answers for you. I'm sort of wrestling with some of the feelings around all of this. I don't necessarily need anything from any of you, but I want you to know just what's happening for me. And also, I don't want you to emotionally take this on. I'm good owning this for myself. I just feel accountable to all of you in this way. I do want you to know what's happening for me. That would be like the way that that went. It would just be something simple like I'm sharing this with you. You don't need to own it. You don't need to fix it. I'm good. I'm okay. I'm grappling, but that's human, and I will let you know whenever I have a more concrete answer to give. And then I would just leave it at that. Because I think, and, and I think maybe my answers right now are just reflective of the own space and uh, state of mind that I'm in, but I don't think what this person is going through is something that can then be rushed. Like thinking about trying to rush the thing along is sort of the exact opposite of what they seem like they're being called to do. You know? Yeah. I think that's all today. I think that we are officially done with our questions and our scenario. I really hope that at least some portion of this spoke to you. If you're in winter with me, I hope that it feels as clarifying and grounding and peaceful for you as it does for me in this state right now. Of course, you know, if I record in another month, maybe I'll be saying something entirely differently, but for right now, I hope it feels all those same ways. If you haven't already, make sure you do one of two things. Number one, just subscribe to the podcast. When you subscribe, you get notified, of course, with any new episodes, and it's just easier to find them if you wanna go back and listen. Number two, send this episode to a friend that you have that might need to hear it. That's really what I am after. I want this to be there for people who are in this state or approaching the state and feel unsure and maybe feel alone and maybe feel confused. Ideally, something in this episode also resonates with them. So either subscribe or share with somebody who you think needs to hear it. That aside and as per usual, thank you for being here with me. I think you know that I really highly value time, and so the fact that you spend some with me is very meaningful and much appreciated. You have a fantastic rest of your day, and I will see you on the next podcast. Thanks. Bye.