Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Matt Rife’s Bad Joke and the Murder Scoop with Matt Murphy

Transcript

Matt Rife’s Bad Joke and the Murder Scoop with Matt Murphy · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: know about the drawer. The drawer. Just the one square
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: before bed. Or two, you know. Nobody's watching.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: You deserve a treat.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: With eight flavours to choose from, you can choose the
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales for real life, Mr.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Saving Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Listen in, listen up.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Woo, woo.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: I have a great Juicy Scoop for you this Thanksgiving
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: and maybe one that you're enjoying this after Thanksgiving or
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: whenever because it is a juicy conversation with Matt Murphy,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: one of your favorite Juicy Scoopers. He is a former
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: prosecutor of Newport Beach, but you also know him from 2020,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: but best you know him from his many now appearances
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: on Juicy Scoop. And we have a great conversation about
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: several high profile crimes that he has some insight that
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: nobody else knows. But first I want to talk about,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of people have asked my opinion on this
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: and I've gone deep dive and I've gotten your opinions.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I've gotten TikTokers opinions. And it does interest me because
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: it's about a comedian. One of our most popular comedians today,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: which is a guy named Matt Rife. He's a good
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: looking white guy, little frat boy looking. He has... I
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: thought it was a Southern accent. Some people say it's
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: a black scent, which he's getting criticism for that, meaning
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: he is trying to sound like a black man. I
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: don't know. I just thought he was Southern. And he
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: had an admitted glow up. He's been doing comedy for
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: 12 years. He didn't just pop off from his living room.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: He has been doing actual stand-up comedy for over 12 years.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: He was best known for being on Wildin' Out. which is,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: you know, you know that show with Nick Cannon. And
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: then he was having trouble. He wasn't even getting into
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: like festivals or anything. And he always posted videos and
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: one popped and it was him doing crowd work. Then
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: he started posting more and more about his crowd work
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: and people, comedians, myself included, were very impressed with that.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: the way that he could do so well talking to
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: an audience that he doesn't know and building on it
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: and really making fresh, funny material. Some comedians are really
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: good at that. Others don't do it as much. When
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I do my shows, I don't do much of it
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: because I'm really excited to tell you guys new stories.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I'm a storyteller about my life. When I go on stage,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: other people do more observational jokes. Some people do one-liners
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: and some people do crowd work. Some people do it all. Okay.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: He gets a Netflix special. He starts selling out arenas,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: incredible amounts. There's podcasts where say he made 25 to
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: 45 million last year, things like that. And he's only 28.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Now he got his teeth done, the first six. I
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: suggest always getting a few more because you can see
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: the ones that are not veneered in the back, but
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: he is a good looking guy. He has full lips.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Those appear to be natural. The jawline is questionable. It's
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: very easy to fill your jawline, but also guys, I'm
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: raising two of them they do start to get more
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: chiseled as they get into their 20s and some people
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: are late bloomers. Okay. So, that is why people are like, wow,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: this guy's good looking. And a lot of women loved him,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: flocked to his show, thought he was funny. Prior to
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: his special, he started doing some interviews and whatnot where
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: he's like, I know I have a big female comedy
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: fan base, but I'm not pandering to the females. My
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: comedy is really for the guys. keep that thought in mind.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: The special begins and the overall review of the special
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: is his crowd work is much funnier than his actual
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: written material. I watched a solid 25 minutes of it.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I did fall asleep in between. I don't really always
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: laugh out loud at comedians because being a comedian, I'm
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: sort of like, oh, he's talking about that. Okay, that's
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: slightly clever, whatever. I didn't think the standup was great.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: There were some things he did a bit about old
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: people that I was like, that's kind of weird. You know,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: not really cool, but whatever. And the thing that he's
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: really getting heat for is a domestic violence joke. And
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: the joke is basically, it starts, it's the first joke
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: of his special. And he comes out and he's like, oh,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I was in Baltimore with my buddy, with my boy.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: And we walked into a restaurant and the woman who
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: greets us, the waitress had a black eye, like an
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: obvious black eye. And the His boy says, wow, I
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: feel kind of bad that she's like the face of
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: the restaurant. Maybe, you know, maybe they should put her
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: in the kitchen. And Matt Rife's punchline is, I think
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: if she could cook, she wouldn't have a black eye. Okay. Now,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: obviously he's not, doesn't really believe that women who shouldn't,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: that aren't good at cooking should be beaten up. He
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: does not believe that. Please. He's making a joke of
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: the absurdity of how horrible domestic violence is. That's my
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: opinion as a comedian. However, I do think there's certain
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: subjects that are not really worth tackling today in 2023.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I think this might be one of them. So a
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: lot of women didn't find it funny, found it triggering.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: But mostly I agreed with some of the comedians I
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: saw comment on this on social media where they're like,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: this isn't really an original joke. And then I remembered
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: where I first heard something like this. And it was
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: a female comedian friend of mine had a joke. I
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: believe a friend of hers wrote it and then gave
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: it to her. And I'm not saying her name. I'm
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: just saying it's not my joke. I'm not saying her
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: name because I don't need people to go after her, whatever.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: But the joke was she comes out and she's like,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: no woman should ever be hit, touched, anything, no matter
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: what the circumstances is. I do believe that. And everyone cheers.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: And she goes, but you got to ask yourself, Did
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: you gain a little weight? Did you get a little snappy?
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Did you spout your name all, you know, did you
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: spout your head off again to your man? Something to
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: the effect of that. Now, of course, she was joking
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: as well that, you know, but it was the surprise
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: element of the punchline that, and I believe that joke
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: might've gone in one of her early specials, but she
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: retired material. I had a joke earlier in my standup.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: And it was the one joke my mom's like, I
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: don't like that joke. I don't like it. And I'll
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: tell you now. I said, so my husband, he was
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: an altar boy and everyone goes, you know. And I said,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: and he's upset because he was not molested. And he's like,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: where's my archdiocese payout? What? Was my ass not tight
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: enough as I brought the chalice back to.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: You know, the altar, why wasn't I chosen? That was
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: the joke. And my mom's like, I don't like it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, mom, I'm saying it because not everybody
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: was molested and you should be happy about that. I mean,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: but you know what? I did stop saying it. I
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: was like, if it's upsetting my mom, it's probably upsetting
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: other people and I can write other stuff. I've talked
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: about that with you guys in the past. that I
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: retire jokes. I give up jokes. I'm never like, I'm
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: doing that joke. If it bothers people, I write another thing.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: So anyway, my point is, I don't think his jokes
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: are very clever. They're not original thoughts. And I don't
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: know that I, you know, we believe these stories. He's
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: not really telling that many personal stories about his life,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: but whatever. So TikTok, who blew him up, starts going
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: crazy in the last couple of days. And they're realizing
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: that He doesn't really care about his female fans, which
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: is stupid because female fans are the most powerful, the
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: most loyal, the most coveted demographic. I'm so grateful to
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: have them. But I will say, because I'm being honest here,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: and I don't like this about myself. that there have
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: been times when I've had shows and I've done a
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: meet and greet and all my girls are coming up
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: and they're loving me and I listen to Juicy Scoop
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: and your standup was so funny. And then they're like,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: I dragged my husband, which I always say, don't say
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: that you dragged your husband. And then the straight man
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: is like, you were hilarious. You were so funny. I'm
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: so pleasantly surprised. I'm so glad it came, something like that.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: And I get mad because I'm actually more excited to
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: hear that comment from a straight man than females. I'm
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: just admitting it. I don't feel that way anymore. But
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: there was a time where I was like really excited
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: to get that adoration and that you're cool girl, you know,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: from straight men. That's just the way I'm just being honest.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I don't like it. I'm being honest about it. So
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: he says, I don't pander to, Matt Rife says, I
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: don't pander to my female audience. He said this in
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: several interviews. I'm really, guys really find my humor really funny.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: So Now people are like, I think we know the
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: real Matt Rife. I think he's a frat guy. I
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: think that's the way he talks about his friends. I
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: don't think he respects women. I think he's misogynistic. And
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: maybe men will like him better. I mean, when Louis C.K.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: was being attempted to being canceled for everything he did,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: men kept going to see him. He got a Grammy.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: He's selling at big rooms again. People are going to
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: see him. They don't really care. I don't feel like
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: the straight men are really the ones with the torches
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: in the streets trying to cancel people. So do I
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: think Matt has anything to worry about? Some, maybe, but
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, there's probably a lot of
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: people that never even heard of him until you're driving
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: around listening to Juicy Scoop now. And now you know
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: that he's kind of this controversial guy. You might go
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: watch his special now and go, I thought it was
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: really funny. To me, it's fresh. I thought it was cool.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: I liked looking at his jawline, you know, and everything.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: We'll see if that's real or not. I'm sure someone,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I kind of was doing side-by-side photos, but whatever, that's unimportant.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: But of course, plastic surgery is an interest of mine. Um,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: He also did podcasts where he got into the anatomy
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: of female genitalia and what he likes and what he
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: doesn't like down there and said some really graphic things
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: that I'm not going to repeat here that are not
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: a bash on trans women and a bash on women
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: in general. And so people don't like that, but that's
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: what podcasting is. It's people talking about what they talk
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: about when they're alone with each other. That's why we
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: like podcasting. We're listening to a conversation and there's locker
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: room talk on a lot of podcasts. And there's also
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of women that will talk about men's penis
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: size and if they were circumcised and that they were
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: bad in bed and they out men all the time
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: for their performance in the sack and the size of
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: their penis. But And men aren't in the street saying
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: those women should be canceled. How dare they talk about
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: the size of our... So I don't really agree with
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: either one of the conversation. I think it's gross. I
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: don't think it's cool when you date someone and you
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: don't like him and he hurts your feelings and you're like,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: and by the way, everybody... Because how do we know?
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: The only way we know, or you say to... I
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: know someone who her friend was getting married to a
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: wonderful guy and she told everybody at the party, oh,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: but he has a small penis. So don't be jealous.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: And you know who was jealous? The friends saying that.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: And who the fuck knows if it's true and who
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: cares and why is it our business? I think it's
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: really gross. I think women could do better.
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: I'm Darman and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: have faced tremendous setbacks. and yet somehow have found a
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I'm heading to the Emmys and I have police complaints
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: filed against me.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: what would you do if it was given back?
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: Where did that need come from where you thought that
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: home dad. What happens next? When I came in, he
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: started crying. Everybody in life encounters hardships.
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: What defines them is not those hard moments that they
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: go through.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: It's about what happens next.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I decided to risk it all.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: I realized how valuable every day was.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: You're worth the work. Listen, Dara, I'm not going to
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: pull punches. You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Um, so anyway, the final thing is he responds, Matt Rife.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: And he's like, anyone that's offended by my comedy, click
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: on this link. And this was on his stories about
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: a day and a half ago, two days ago. You
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: click on the link and it's a website for helmets
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: for children with special needs. So he's doubling down on,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I don't give a fuck. And maybe this is his goal.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe this is his goal to get rid of the
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: audience that did care and did come. Maybe he really
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: doesn't like looking out to a sea of women. I
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: had a comedian on my show that said, I'm tired of,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: you know, comments from middle-aged women. Hey, some men feel
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: like that. Some people are like, I'd really rather have
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: this other audience love me, not this one. I'm happy
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: to have anybody. It means so much to me that
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: there's all different walks of life coming to see my standup.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I love a mother, daughter, a son. a mother-son. I
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: love a husband-wife. I love two husbands. I love two women,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: two late-in-life lesbians. I love it all. I try to
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: do an act that everyone can relate to. And some
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: people relate to it more than others, but hopefully everybody
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: will laugh. Other comedians are different. And so that was
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: the controversy that was happening. A little update on P. Diddy. Now,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: this just popped up. Now, this guy, this is from
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Rolling Stone, Hervé Pierre, that used to work for Bad
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Boy Records, he has just been hit with a, I
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: believe it's a lawsuit. It's from a Jane Doe. We
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: don't know her name, but at one time she was
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: his assistant. And she is saying that she was groomed
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: and sexually assaulted by him for years. And there's, of course,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: this is from Hollywood Unlocked. Not of course, but it
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: was Hollywood Unlocked. And there's a photo of P. Diddy
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: with this man. Also, I saw on Raider Online that
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: someone close to Cassie is coming forward and saying another
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: part of being P. Diddy's little Barbie doll in which
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: he did horrible things to her, he wanted to get
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: her boobs done. She went to a plastic surgeon who
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: is no longer with us. He's deceased because he was
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: texting Cassie. someone and he went off a cliff in
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Malibu and he died. Anyway, they get her boobs job
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: and she comes home and he's like, they're too big.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: The next day he's sitting in the office with the,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: according to this friend from Raider Online, sitting in the
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: office with the now deceased plastic surgeon. And he's like,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: take them out and get put smaller ones in. And
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: she's crying and she's not speaking for herself. And he's like,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: the surgeon's like, no, no, no, wait, there's a lot
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: of swelling. It'll go down. And it's not good to
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: do surgery so close to each other. She went along
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: with it. I assume she had to sign even though
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: she was crying and never spoke. And then he put
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: her under a week later to replace the boobs to
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: the size that P. Diddy wanted. There is a photo
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: of her out with her daughter, Cassie. I hope she
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: has a beautiful Thanksgiving. I love that she has shared
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: her stories, that people are coming out, that she wasn't
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: silenced even though people are like, shut up, move on.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: You were with him for these. I totally believe everything
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: this woman said. And I think this was a perfect
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: scenario for her. She got her story out. She got
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: her money and she doesn't have to be dragged through
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: a court thing for years to come. But that is
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: why I speak out and I have Anytime someone has
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: said lies about me or whatever, I speak out and
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I share because I'm not going to be silenced. I'm
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: not going to keep the secrets of the people that
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: treated me horribly. And that has been my MO since
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: I started this podcast eight and a half years ago.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: So anyway, we have a juicy one. I also want
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: to tell you guys, if you're part of Patreon, there'll
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: be not only a Friday Patreon, there is going to
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: be the Get Me Behind Gates Patreon that I've been
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: promising you guys. I just wanted to have all the information,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: which I now do for a real juicy one. I'm
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: going to be doing a true crime with Shannon, a
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: juicy crime since she's here. That's all going to be
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: dropped over the weekend while you're cleaning or walking or,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: you know, doing shopping. Speaking of shopping, all of the heathermcdonald.net
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: merch will be available with a discount. And we're going
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: to give that discount on our Patreon. So if you
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: want to get anything for anyone you love, that's what
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: you do. And now for a juicy one with Matt Murphy.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: We've got... the Juicy Crimes expert here, Matt Murphy. Welcome back.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: We have so many Juicy Crimes to discuss.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: So much.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: First of all, the most important question for the Juicy Scoopers.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: What is going on? Are you still single?
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm still single. Got a place. The disaster that
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: is my love life continues unabated. I've got a place
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: in New York City, so I'm splitting time right now.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: I'm doing a bunch of media out there.
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: I've been working on a book.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: People know you best, I think, from 2020. You're a
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: regular on 2020, right?
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: Right. So, yeah, I work for ABC News in New
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: York City. They just had the season premiere for 2020.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: They went head-to-head against Dateline on the same story.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: What story was that?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: That was this case out of Austin.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, so- Let's talk about that. But first, a different case?
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, tell me the case out of Austin that
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: you're saying.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: So this is one where it's an old plot line.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: It's this woman that manipulated the Green Beret, the former
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Special Forces soldier, into murdering her husband. And it's actually tragic.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: And this is one where I, after 17 years in homicide,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I finished working on that story feeling kind of sorry
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: for the guy, for the slayer.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, now I know the story.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: It's awful. It's awful. This woman is... So basically, she
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: wanted life insurance money, the oldest motive in the world, right?
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: And she winds up randomly getting hit up or hitting
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: up her high school flame, who had six combat tours,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: got blown up once, so he had a traumatic brain injury,
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: certainly affected his reasoning, and then did the old, you know,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: the plot to Body Heat, where she convinced him she's
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: being sexually abused by her horrible husband.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Which is such a common, that is the storyline for
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: it all.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Body Heat, for those who haven't watched it.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: And finding like a guy gullible enough and into you
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: enough to believe it and then be that protector.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: So for those who haven't seen Body Heat, William Hurt,
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Kathleen Turner, awesome movie. Mickey Rourke is in it too.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: And wasn't it a redo of another old movie?
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: That's right. That's exactly right. It's an old redone noir.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: And that is basically the same plot line to the
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: case we talked about in Newport, the Laughlin murder.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Yes. Getting your boyfriend to kill your husband. Yeah.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Only what's different about those, those two cases and the noir, um,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: is that the women in the, in those cases were
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: all stunningly beautiful. And so at least you could sort
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: of see it. This one in Texas, she is, horrible
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: in every way. You wouldn't kill somebody based on superficial
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: aspects of her personality alone. She's not that smart. She's
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: not pretty. And she winds up convincing this guy to
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: kill her husband. And it is awful in every way.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Wow. Okay. So you're doing that. You have a place
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: in New York.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: Place in New York. Yep.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: And- And then you still have your place here in L.A.? Yeah.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: Still have a law practice here in L.A. Yeah.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: And so what's going on? So you haven't found anyone
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: that you like?
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean, I actually very recently I met somebody,
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: but I've only gone out a couple dates sort of thing.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: So we'll see.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Is she a juicy scooper?
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: You know, she is not. But you know who's become
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: a juicy scooper?
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Me.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: I have become– since we did that interview in Newport,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: was that last summer or two summers ago?
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, last– it would have been– not this past summer,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: but the one before.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Okay, right. I've watched this. This is wildly entertaining to me.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm glad I can– from all the horror
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: that is your job, I'm glad you can, like, laugh.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: No, the Jada Pinkett Smith stuff, we were just talking
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: about this. I am so– like, you express exactly what
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking. So that tends to bring you back. Like,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: you'll say things on some of this Hollywood stuff that–
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: It's super entertaining to me.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: And you were also saying before we get into some
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: of the cases I want to cover that you are,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: you have a book deal.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: So you've already done it and now they're editing it
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: or you're still writing it?
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: No, the manuscript's done.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: We turned it in on time September 1st and now
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: it's with the editor who's, I'm actually really excited to
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: work with this guy. He normally edits for National Geographic
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: and he's the man. So I'm If you can make
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: me sound smart, I'm all for it. So it's a process.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Did you enjoy the process of writing it?
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So what I would do is I got this
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: place in New York with the idea. I saw this
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: interview with a guy named Ryan Holiday, who wrote a
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: bunch of books on stoicism randomly. And they said, what
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: is your recommendation to a new author? And he said,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: number one, move to a city you don't live. And
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: number two, don't tell anybody what you're doing. So I've
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: already blown number two. But the move to a city
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: you don't live, New York is dynamic and it's fun
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: and not being in a committed relationship right now. It's
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: an amazing place. I'm from here.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: And so you found him like a nice place with
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: like sunlight coming in the window and just got your
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: fingers typing or like what?
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nicer than I deserve.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: And did you feel like you were living like a movie?
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Like I'm a writer now?
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: I walked into this place and I was like, this
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: is where I want to do it. It's right on
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Park Avenue. It's got a view of Park Avenue.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: And so I'm super close to Central Park. So my
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: morning routine is- Get up in the morning, get coffee
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: at this place called St. Ambrose, right across the street.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Walk to the park, find a bench, and then write
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: until my butt hurt. And then walk around the park,
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: find another bench.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: You'd write on your laptop or what?
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Right on my laptop.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Yep. And then back. And that was my routine for
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: most of the summer. And before I knew it, we
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: had 10 chapters, 100,000 words. And yeah, and I hope
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: people like it. It's kind of a mix of... It's
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: a memoir. It's a mix of sort of my personal experiences...
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: stony personal thoughts going to murder scenes, and then some
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: of the bigger cases that I did over the years.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, let's get your opinion on some of these
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: hot ones. So this is a story of Caitlin Armstrong.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Remind everybody, because I was like, wait, this is a
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: girl that got jealous of an ex-boyfriend's new girlfriend. It
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: involved bicycles. What is the story behind this?
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: It's fabulously awesome is what this is, and tragic at
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: the same time. So there's this It's essentially a love triangle.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: It is this sort of famous but fading cyclist who's
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: hitting his mid-30s and starting to go downhill a little bit.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: And he's in the off-road biking thing. His last name
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: is Strickland, I think his name is. And he's sort
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: of a fading star. And he's got this girlfriend who
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: he lives with that started a business refurbishing trailers, like
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: camping trailer type things. And then he winds up meeting
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: the young, up-and-coming, beautiful 25-year-old off-road biking star. from San Francisco.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: And they have an affair. He says he's broken up
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: with his girlfriend. Yeah, Caitlin Armstrong. And she loses her
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: ever-loving mind.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: Caitlin loses it.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Caitlin does and winds up. And for a lot of people,
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: when they commit a murder, it's their first rodeo. So
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: it's like when we do anything for the first time,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: we suck at it. And She made pretty much every
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: mistake that you could possibly make.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: So what did she do? How did she kill her?
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: First of all, she drove her own car to go
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: and kill this poor young woman who's staying with a friend.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: So she goes in. She uses a firearm that her
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: boyfriend purchased for her.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Wait, the cyclist boyfriend?
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: The cyclist boyfriend. This is Austin, Texas. Okay.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Bought her a gun.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Bought her a gun.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: She used that gun. It's a semi-automatic Sig Sauer. So
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: what that does forensically and some of the True crime
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: fans will know this. They eject shell casings. And shell
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: casings are as unique as fingerprints when it comes to firearms.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: So there's a thing called the Niven system. And all
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: they do, they look microscopically at the lands and grooves.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: And they can match expended shell casings left at a
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: crime scene if they can recover the gun that fired them.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: And guess what? They recovered the gun in the place
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: that she lived with her boyfriend. And so.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: So they were living together. But at one point, he's like,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: we were on a break.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: But.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: And he... you know, has a little with this girl,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: but was he currently still seeing her at the time
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: of the murder?
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: So this is one of those things he's, he has
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: turned out like for people that have followed the story,
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: he doesn't come off looking very good because it looks
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: like he's kind of hedging his bets in the view
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: of some, I'm not saying that, but yeah, but yeah,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: he's he's got, there's some text messages that have gone
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: public between him and the 25 year old professional cyclist
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: where she's basically saying, Hey, I'm a little bit confused,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: super awkward because it's one of those things where it
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: gets so bad. she's confronted a couple of times by,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: by Caitlin Armstrong.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, so she knew that this chick was after. And
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: so she's writing him like, are you broken up or
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: what the hell?
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Right. And he's, he's come out and said, you know, Hey, we,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: we got back together. You know, it was, I was
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: on a break. It was all legit, but you read
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: some of those text messages and it's, he was not,
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: it didn't appear he's entirely clear with the 25 year old.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: She comes out to Austin to stay with a friend
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: to do some, some professional race. And that's when she's murdered.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: And how is she murdered? Did she walk out the.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: She was in her friend's apartment.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: OK.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: And Caitlin Armstrong drives her own vehicle. And they're all
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: in the bike circuit, right? So they've got a very
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: distinct black Jeep Cherokee with these specialized bike racks on
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: the back and on the top. And there's probably a
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: couple of cars in all of Austin that fit that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: So drives her own car. It's everything but the license plate.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: She's driving around for a while right before the murder.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: You know, and she was the the guy went out
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: with the 25 year old victim, took her to this
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: outdoor swimming thing. They had a couple of drinks and
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: dropped her off right before she was murdered. So she
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: comes in. the friend she's staying with was gone and
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: the victim gets shot and is found in the bathroom.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: And there's a- So Caitlin went into the house?
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: And we don't know, do we know if she like
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: knocked on the door and they had a conversation or
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: did she just burst in an unlocked door and find her?
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: We think the door was, well, they think the door
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: was unlocked because she had a lock with a, like
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: it's an electronic lock, so with a code.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: So we know exactly when the victim got home and
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: then shortly thereafter- There's gunshots. Her friend finds her. And
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: then there's this gut-wrenching 911 where her friend is giving CPR.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: And it got very graphic. Because she was shot once
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: in the chest and twice in the head. And with
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: ammunition that's designed to fragment. So she's giving CPR. I
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: don't know if I can say this.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: On the 911 type. And she's absolutely distraught. She's trying
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: to save her friend. She's like, but her brains are
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: coming out as I'm giving chest compressions. It is horrific.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: Which is also like... You know, the actual visceral horror
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: of what people look like when they've actually been murdered
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: is something that most people think that we never get
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: to see. But it's also, it's a reminder of just
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: how awful, you know, this was. And then she runs
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: for it. She flees to Costa Rica, has a nose job,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: tries to change her appearance. Again, not super smart, starts
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: working at a youth hostel. So she's out encountering Americans everywhere.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: And Costa Rica is a horrible place to disappear because
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: the Costa Rican judiciary actually is somewhat functional and the
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: cops will catch and extradite people. The U.S. Marshal's Office
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: has a really good relationship with them. There's a lot
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: of places, surprisingly, in Latin America that are very extradition friendly,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: including Mexico.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Where is a good place to go? That you have
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: a better chance.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: As I tip off all the merds where to flee to.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: No, I'm just curious. I don't mind doing it because
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: life in.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: These places would suck so bad.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Where is a place that would be a harder chance?
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I'll give you three. Cuba, Venezuela, and Iran. Those are
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: all places that are never going to extradite the United States,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: which was, of course, my Nayiri case. I don't know
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: if we've ever talked about that. It's my last trial.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: He was a citizen of Iran and we lured him out.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: We lured him to the Czech Republic and basically threw
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: a net on him and extradited him back.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: And what was his crime again?
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: He kidnapped a marijuana dispensary owner, took him out into
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: the desert. And when he didn't get the money that
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: he thought was buried out there, he cut off his penis. Yeah.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: And the guy lived?
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: And he lived. Yes. It's horrific. That's the case I
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: just presented on at CrimeCon. Okay.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: So, okay. First, I want to talk about CrimeCon, but
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: let's finish this. So what has happened to her now?
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: She escaped? So they found her in Costa Rica.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: They found her in Costa Rica. So, and she was
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: only there for, I think it was 42 days before
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: they caught her.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Which is like, that's like tomorrow in as far as
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: international extraditions go. And that's instantaneous. They extradite her. They
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: bring her back to Texas. And then they were, her
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: trial was scheduled to begin in like a week and
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: they take her to this medical appointment. And there's this
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: Benny Hill scene that a lot of people have seen
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: on video where she is in handcuffs running from this,
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: from the police. She somehow got away and they're chasing
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: around this parking lot. And like this police officer keeps
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: falling down as they're like, I feel kind of bad
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: for that cop. It just kept falling over and over.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Like And this woman, she's like a semi-professional cyclist. She's
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: in awesome shape. And she's like running around this tree,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: tries to climb a fence with her arms behind her back,
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: which doesn't work very well. And they eventually caught her.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: And that's totally admissible against her.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Is that something that happens? Like you have to go
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: to a medical appointment? Like what kind of medical appointment
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: cannot wait when you're like a healthy woman? Like, oh,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I have a toothache or something? What the hell is it?
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: They're required to provide medical care. And most- Any sort
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: of like specialized medical treatment is always off campus. It's
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: always outside of the jail. It's always at some facility.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: So they do that routinely. But for a woman that's
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: already fled, it's like they're getting a lot of heat
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: right now. Probably just five or should have been in
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: ankle chains or something because she's already started made a runner.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: But they did catch her. She's back in custody now
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: and she's. Fundamentally, I think I can say that she's
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: an idiot because everything she could do to get caught,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: she did. She's being tried in Texas. A Texas jury
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: is going to do her and she's going to eat
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: first degree murder with a gun. And that'll be that
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: for her.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Where is the boyfriend? Will he be part of the trial?
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, right?
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he'll be part of the trial. He's basically been
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: in damage control ever since. So all the sponsors dropped him,
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: I think, except for Red Bull. But he had a
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: bunch of sponsors and he was doing it as a profession.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: And so they've all run from him. And yeah, I
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: don't know.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: So she had confronted the victim like on the street
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: or called her or what?
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Called her. Yeah, called her. And there's witnesses to that.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: And Ben like said what?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Like stay away from my man?
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, stay away from my man. Words without effect. And
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: then she's with the guy and she's like, I just
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: had the weirdest phone call. And he's like, oh, I'm
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: really embarrassed. That's my ex-girlfriend.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: She's a psycho.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Which is true. The victim is– The one time a
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: guy says a girl is– the ex-girlfriend is a psycho,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: he was telling the truth.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Right, right. Yeah. And ex, not really ex anymore type thing.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: And the victim was totally innocent in that, completely in
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: the dark.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, totally.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally innocent. So, yeah. But justice will be done
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: on that.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: She's going to– Before we get to the next case,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: tell us about how you went to CrimeCon and we're
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: scared that– I'm scared that you won't be your humble
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: self anymore.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God. No, trust me. So CrimeCon is absolutely surreal.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Come a little closer.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: CrimeCon is surreal.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: CrimeCon is– Is this the first time you've been?
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: No, it's my third time to CrimeCon. But this is
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: the first time– it's the second time I presented myself.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: So I went once with ABC News in 2019 right
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: before COVID.
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: And that was a blast.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Where was that?
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: That was in New Orleans. First time I'd ever been.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: When it was in Nashville, I think the year before,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Keith Morrison. Yep. And Josh Mankiewicz came to my stand-up
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: show after they'd been at CrimeCon all day.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: So ABC will be mad at me for saying this,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: but they're two of the nicest guys. They're like the
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: enemy and like the head-to-head true crime stuff. Josh was
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: at this last one. I love both those guys.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: Everybody's nice in real life as they seem to be
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: on TV.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Okay. So where was this one held?
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: So this was in Orlando, Florida, another place I'd never been.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: And it's this Marriott World, Orlando World Marriott, something like that,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: is probably the biggest building I've ever been in. It
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: was like the Pentagon with endless hallways that just go forever.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: These massive rooms. And they do big national conventions. That's
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: kind of their gig. And I got a room to
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: talk about my Nayiri case, the Hussein Nayiri, that one
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: that I told you about, the guy we lured out
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: of Iran. And I figured, you know, a few hundred
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: people might show up for my little horse and pony show.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: And there was 3,200 people in the room. And it's
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: a great crowd. Everybody's super nice. But it's this kind
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: of weird mix of true crime. What's the word?
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Fanatics?
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: Fanatics is too strong because they're not crazy enough for fanatics.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: They're too nice.
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: And then the, uh, a lot of industry, I don't
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: even know if that's the right word, but like podcasters
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: and like Dateline will show up, uh, uh, 48 hours
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: will show up. So it'll be kind of people that,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: that are in the business of true crime. And then
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: they'll also have, they'll have prosecutors to talk about cases.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: Like I did a panel with, uh, Camille Vasquez, who's
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: a former student of mine who cross-examined Amber Heard.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: She was a student of yours?
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: I coached her for three years in high school mock trial,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: believe it or not.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: And, um, Wait a minute, what high school was she at?
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: She was at Cornelia Connelly in Orange County.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, amazing.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Her teacher was married to a buddy of mine.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Were you on mock trial in high school at Loyola?
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: No, they didn't have it back then. At least I
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: don't think. So it's Constitutional Rights Foundation. They need coaches.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: My sister's an attorney, I just want to say, and
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: she did not make the mock trial team in high school.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's awesome.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: And it was like the one male teacher. And when
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I saw him, I'm like, you know, my sister's an
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: attorney now and you didn't. And he said- do you
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: know that every girl that has come up to me
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: that became an attorney, I did not allow them to
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: be on mock trial. So he's like, so I actually
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: think I did more for those women.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: By motivating them?
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, by motivating them. Okay, so continue. You're coaching her.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: So basically, Jane Munoz is the teacher's name. She's married
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: to Ed Munoz, who's a buddy of mine from the
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: homestead unit. So she's one of those women that I've
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: learned I just need to do what she tells me
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: to do. So she's like, okay, you're going to coach
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: my team. So me, a buddy of mine, Brian Gerowitz,
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: another friend, Ed Flores, we wound up coaching her team
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: for four years, Camille was on it for three.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: In high school.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: In high school.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: And did you think she had a lot of talent
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: as an attorney back then?
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: I did. Okay. She was so into it, wanted to
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: be a lawyer, nicest kid, and has grown up to
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: be the nicest woman. And Camille Vasquez is the real deal.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: Like for those of you who didn't, I don't know
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: if you watched any of that.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: No, we covered it a lot on this show.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Awesome.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: And she did a great- She did a great job.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I got to watch that, like talk about
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: a fan boy, like watching that. And I did some
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: commentary for Good Morning America on that case. And, you know,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said the single
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: greatest method of attaining truth or barometer of truth is
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: the art of cross-examination. It's like a famous old quote
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: that you learn in law school.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: And that's an example of that. Like she owned Amber Heard. Yeah.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: And kind of saved a guy's reputation, I think, from
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: their perspective.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that was, I mean, that was an amazing,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: I talked, I mean, I talked a lot about it,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: but I still was sort of shocked that by doing
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: this open op letter or whatever that she did, that
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: it led to that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I was a little bit like,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: wait a minute, you know, about First Amendment and all that.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: And I was like, this is her perspective. And she didn't.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: So that's where I was. I was probably the only
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: one talking about that aspect of it. I'm like, look,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: like she's, you know, not a good wife and all
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: this stuff. But he was also an awful husband.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: Terrible, toxic relationship. Yeah. But he from Camille's perspective, she's like, yep, terrible,
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: toxic relationship. But he never sexually assaulted her. He never
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: physically abused her. And that was like, that was, that
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: was the allegations that, you know, you can be, you
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: can be accused of being a bad husband, bad boyfriend, but,
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: and not get canceled. But once, once allegations of sexual assault,
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: which they made in spades against him.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: And like, and that's a tricky thing too, because, you know,
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: I'm huge advocate of victims rights. I did sexual assault
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: before I went to homicide. I do pro bono work
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: for rape victims. But it's, The one that makes the
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: false claim is what makes it difficult on the real victim.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Totally. Right. And that is an important thing to point out.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: And she, at the end of that relationship, she made
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: allegations that got him completely canceled. And now he's like,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: I think he's negotiating her back with Disney or something.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: And he's back doing a Disney. He's got... That was
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: the other stuff, how mean she was about like, what?
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Who'd want you, you old fat man and all this stuff.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: And then now, you know, now he has the... sponsorship
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: for the cologne and all this other stuff that he still,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: it's great. And so that was just, but that was
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: like a part of history with like all the fans,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: the Edward Sutherland people, the pirates outside. I mean, there was,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: that was like a glorious time.
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: And then Camille's walking out and they had a gag order. And,
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: you know, part of the technique, and this is kind
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: of trial 101, but you want to serve somebody that's,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: a man that's been accused of abuse, you want the
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: most diminutive, petite, pretty young woman sitting next to him
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: because it demonstrates to the jury, look, he's not a monster, right?
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: And so Camille was like kind of thrust into that position.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: And I don't think anybody knew what was coming cross-examination wise.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: But by getting to do that, but then the rumor
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: started like, oh, look at her. She's, look at how
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: close she is.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I kind of started the rumor. I really kind of did.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Because he was so like, but he's just sort of
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: a gentleman. And other people attest to like, no, I
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: worked with him. And he is that guy that's, you know,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: puts his hand on someone's back and you go first
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: and that kind of thing.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: It got physically touchy.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But that's a tactic.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: That's a trial tactic.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, big time.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Do they plan that out?
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Probably, yeah. I mean, yeah, you want the jury
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: to see that because it demonstrates that he's not a danger, right?
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: It's a very primal communication and a jury does not
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: miss a thing. I mean, they like, whatever you do
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: in front of a jury, they're watching it. You know,
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: I've done 132 jury trials and it's 24 eyeballs watching
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: everything you do. And so that was, yeah. And so,
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: and certainly he is that guy. He is like physically
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: very touchy and by not recoiling and not keeping it,
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: You know, at arm's length.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: I was glad that she didn't go on to like
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: stop doing real trials and become like a TV personality.
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: No, she's a real.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: I'm glad she went. She's a real lawyer. Maybe in
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: 10 years do that. But I'm like, I want to
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: see her like win some other really important cases.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: And she is the most humble, nicest person. Kind of
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: like Keith and Josh. Like the real life Camille Vasquez.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: Is as nice as you can possibly imagine. She's amazing.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: That's awesome.
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: All right, I wanna ask you about Tupac. What is
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: the deal? Explain.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: Okay, so here's one of the things that I think
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: is fascinating about this. Number one, this is second to
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: maybe the Kennedy assassination as far as conspiracies go and
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: books have been written. There was a lawsuit on these
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: elaborate multi-part things that were fascinating. And this is like
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: East Coast, West Coast, you got bad boy records. You've
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: got the diss songs that, you know, that Tupac made famous.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you ever listened to the lyrics
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: of Hit Em Up, but I used to have this
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: on my playlist. I was in the Orange County gang
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: unit when this murder happened in 96.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Can you just explain for the people that are like
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: confused because there's the Biggie murder.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: And then there was a Tupac which took place in
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: the streets of Las Vegas, right?
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: So in Vegas, a bunch of guys went out to
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: a Mike Tyson fight. And he was with a guy
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: named Suge Knight, who was the CEO of Death Row
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Records and a thug. Okay. A documented gangster, the real deal.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: Like back when like gangster rap was the thing. And
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: that was, it was so glorified. And this is when
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: the Compton mayor was coming out, calling himself, I'm the
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: gangster mayor. And I think he wound up going to
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: prison too, if I'm not mistaken.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: But so he is on the strip. He'd been shot
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: multiple times before.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Tupac had.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Tupac had and survived. And so had Suge Knight. And
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: they're on the strip and a car pulls up next
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: to them. It's a white Mercedes.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: And Tupac are in the same car.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Sugar's driving. Tupac is in the passenger seat and the
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: car gets lit up with gun gunfire. And I can't
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: remember how many times, uh, each was hit. They're both
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: struck multiple times and, uh, Tupac lived for six days
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: and then died. So then not long after, um, Biggie
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Smalls was out in Los Angeles at a record event, um, Oh, gosh,
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: I'm forgetting the name of it. It's an auto museum
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: near the Miracle Mile.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: Right. And he gets shot in a driveway and killed.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: So there's been all these conspiracy theories about involvement of
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: the LAPD and all this wild stuff. What it turned
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: out to be with Tupac Shakur, he got in a
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: fight at the casino about 15 minutes before where they
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: beat up a guy that was associated with a rival
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: gang in L.A., And they beat him up because he
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: stole a freaking gold chain at Little Lakewood Mall. And
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: they happened to run into him on the strip. With
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: all the conspiracy theories, it was a totally banal, stupid,
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: run-of-the-mill gang murder. And one of the things that's also interesting.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: To me— So wait, hold on. So, okay, so Tupac
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: and— and see this guy that stole a gold chain
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: at the Lakewood Mall and give him some shit physically?
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: They beat him up. Yeah, it's on video and there's
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: a famous video.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Inside a casino.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: Inside a casino. I think it's the MGM Grand after
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: this Mike Tyson fight.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: And then they leave. They're like, screw you, dude. They leave.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: They get in the car. The guy that was beat
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: up that stole the gold chain at the Lakewood Mall
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: off of somebody or like at a jewelry store.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: The allegation was either he did it or a gang
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: associate of his did it. But it was all over
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: the stupid chain. This is like nothing.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: And so then that guy gets in the car and
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: shoots them all up.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: That guy and then happens to run into them. And
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: he's in a car with four men, including this guy,
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Keefy D or whatever his name is, the guy that
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: just got arrested. Yeah. So of the two cars, there
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: are six young men. Okay. And you've got one of
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: them is the CEO of a super successful record label.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: One is Tupac Shakur, who's one of the most famous
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: musical talents in American history. And then you've got four
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: other young men in the car of all of them.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: Every single one of them is either dead or in
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: prison today. So you talk about like the gangster rap
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: lifestyle and the glorification of all that. And the first
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: chapter in my book, I get rid of gang murders
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: right away because Gang murders are frigging boring. It is
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: over stuff that normal people could never understand. It's like disrespect.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: So it had nothing to do with Puffy or P.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Diddy because that was what was going on in the
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: news in the last couple of weeks.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: It had nothing to do with him. And I mean,
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: I think that in– I think they'll prove that. But
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: it– you know, and the thing is the guy that
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: was arrested, one of the interesting things about the case
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: is that he– He's made a series of public statements
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: where he says he handed the gun back to the
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: guy who shot. So there's a firearm in the car.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: They run into him. Hey, that's the guy that just
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: tuned me up. Here you go. Take care of business.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: That's aiding and abetting. That's co-conspirator. That action that he's
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: admitted to multiple times. Once with a lawyer sitting next
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: to him for an interview, I think it was BET,
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: which is an absolute head scratcher. That's a full on
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: aiding and abetting. The problem is with the reason why
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: there was never a prosecution in it and There's a
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: great quote from one of the investigators on the Biggie
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Smalls murder. He said, the Tupac murder has always been solved.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: It was never unsolved. It's always been unprosecuted. That was
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: the line, which I thought was great. So they always
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: knew that this guy did it, but they couldn't get
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: anybody to actually pull the trigger and get an indictment.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: And one of the reasons for that is because gang culture,
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: they have this like silence until death, omerta, rule of
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: the street thing. So Suge Knight, the guy who was
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: also shot, who's now in prison for, I think they
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: finally pled him to a voluntary manslaughter because on the
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: set of, gosh, the Straight Outta Compton movie, he ran
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: over a guy, actually two guys, killing one. So now
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: he's back in prison. He's been in and out of prison.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: He was out of prison when they were filming Straight
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Outta Compton just a few years ago?
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: And then he ran over a guy. Now he won't
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: be eligible for parole because of all his strikes and
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: other crimes. I think for at least another 10 or
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: 11 years. So all of these guys.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: You think he'd get out and be like a total
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Boy Scout, right?
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: You would think, unless thug life, whatever. So he refused
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: to talk. Then he's been giving interviews from jail going, oh, well,
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: this happened, that happened, but I ain't saying nothing. And
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: they certainly didn't file it with any expectation that he
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: would testify.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: So the kid that actually shot the gun with the
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: gold chain, he's already been dead for how long? Years.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: And that's another thing. So there's this famous video of
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: Tupac and Suge Knight beating up this guy. And there's
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: got to be 15 or 20 guys in their entourage
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: behind them, kind of all sort of mobbing up on
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: the guy. They got beat up. And as they go
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: through the list of names, like of the car that
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: they shot from, three out of the four guys in
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: the shooter car are dead. The final survivor, he's the
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: one that got arrested. Tupac is dead. Suge Knight has
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: been in prison four years and will be for years.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: So there's this gangster lifestyle and it was a dead
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: end for all these guys. And in the entourage, name
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: after name of witnesses that saw it, killed in a
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: drive-by three months after this, killed in an unrelated drive-by
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: six months later, they're all dead or in prison. So
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: it's fascinating. It's like, where did... I mean, we're talking
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: about mid-90s. Where did the gangster lifestyle lead? And it
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: went nowhere for all these guys. All dead or serving
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: life in prison. And I think that's fascinating, you know,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: where it went. And this thing was just as dumb
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: and mindless as every other gang murder.
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, this should be the lesson to any kid
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: that's like glorifying this.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: It turns out, yeah. All right.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Let's talk. What is the latest going on with the
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Idaho murder? I saw the latest thing was– Now they're
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: saying the victims were awake, were texting each other. And
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: so let me just remind people, yes, these are the
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: four kids that were slaughtered at Idaho. And they have
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: the guy, you know, getting ready for trial. When this
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: was all going down, I was at a party with
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: someone whose kid went to Idaho. And this is before
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: everyone's like, what is going on? This is before they
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: caught him. Nobody knew what happened, why the girl wasn't,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: how did they not hear it, all that kind of stuff.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: And the story that was told to me didn't match
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: up but now it is the story that was told
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: to me which I was told do not say anything
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Heather don't say anything on Juicy Scoop this is an
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: active investigation which I did not you know which is
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: I want people to know I mean my god was
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: that One or both of them were hiding under their bed,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: under the bed, and was texting each other. And then
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: when it all came out, I was like, well, I
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: don't know if that's true. So what do we know
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: right now?
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Well, so yeah, those rumors are out there, but I
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: don't think that information has been released in any sort
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: of court document yet. So I don't think that's official.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: And the problem is that the case has had so
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: much media.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Everything you kind of got to take with a grain
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: of salt unless it's in a search warrant or unless
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: it comes out in a court document. The court Because
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: the media attention has thrown a gag order over the
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: whole thing. And so nobody can really talk. But I
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: can tell you the nuts and bolts of this are fascinating.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: So this is... First of all, it is horrific. You've
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: got four innocent kids. And this is an American psychopath.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: This is a guy, he is obsessed with at least
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: one of them. I think he shows up there. And
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: I love... all the different conspiracy theories, like, oh, wait
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: a second. You know, one of them was that the,
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: and I think the defense actually sort of prompted this
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: in one of their filings, that the police might've planted
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: the sheath with the DNA on it. So there's a
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: knife sheath that was found at the murder scene that
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: had Brian Koberger's DNA on it, on the buckle. And,
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: you know, where we've heard that before, right? Like the
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: famous glove that The OJ. Right, which is down the
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: street from where we are right now, or not too far.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: But yeah, the police didn't plan anything on that. When
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: you take it to the next logical step, it means
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: that they basically would have had to have gotten his
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: DNA from before the killing, which means if they knew
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: the killing was going to happen, they would have stopped
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: it or they had to commit it themselves.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: It's absurd. But it's a really interesting thing. So his...
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: He leaves his apartment right before the murder, and he
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: takes his cell phone with him, and he doesn't turn
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: it off until he's already on the road. So he's
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: pinging in the direction of where the murders happened, and
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: then he turns it back on before he comes home.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: So he's pinging again. You can tell the direction that
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: his cell phone is moving because all those cell phone
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: towers are actually– there are three panels.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: If he was studying– um criminal justice and was such
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: a crime person why would he have ever taken his
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: phone with him in the first place.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: Um there's a great line in the movie band of
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: brothers did you ever see that where they're like trying
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: to figure out why the germans are shooting at nothing
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: and the one of the guys turns to his to
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: his uh lieutenant goes because they ain't as smart as
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: me and you i think that's the answer it's like
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: the this is his first rodeo like we talked about
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: it's he is everybody is generally bad at new enterprises.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: Like first time you play golf, you suck at it.
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: First time you go surfing, you suck at it. For
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: a lot of people, when they go to commit murders
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: for fun, which is what this boils down to, He
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: was bad at it.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: So you don't think he, so he was aware of
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: these people, in your opinion, because, you know, going through
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: it all, did he, was he obsessed with one of
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: the girls? Did she reject him? Did they ever, did
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: she swipe on a, on his face on a dating thing?
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Did he expect only two people to be home? Like
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: all that. And the boyfriend that was spending the night
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: with the girl was the surprise, you know, that came forward.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts?
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: So I think that what happened, if I had to guess,
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: he's obsessed over one for reasons known really only to him.
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: Maybe that'll come out. Maybe there'll be some social media
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: contact between the two. He is not her cup of tea.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: He's a graduate student. And it's actually very close, even
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: though it's across the state line in Washington state. But
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: we're talking about both of the women in that room
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: are beautiful young women. And Brian Coburger is kind of
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: a weirdo loser. Yeah. You know, sorry, Brian, but he was. Yeah.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: And I mean, that's probably the most normal looking photo
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: I've seen of the guy.
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: So he I think that he went there expecting her
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: to be alone. She what he found out was she
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: was sleeping with her friend. So I think he expected
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: one person in the room. I can't imagine he didn't
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: go over with the intent to sexually assault her. That
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: didn't happen. probably because everything went nuts when he got
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: in there. So there's a second person there now that
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: he wasn't expecting. This is sheer blind speculation based on everything.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I prosecuted enough of these guys. So they're
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: very seldom do you see a serial killer where there
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: isn't a sexual component to the motivation to do something
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: like that. So I think he goes in expecting to
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: rape and maybe murder one. There's two in the bed.
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: She probably makes enough noise. I think the boyfriend probably
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: came down to see what was going on. Wound up
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: encountering a guy who's you know, armed with a Marine
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: Corps K-bar knife, which next to the Roman gladius is
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: probably the most vicious stabbing instrument ever invented in human history.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: That which is another thing, like how could you take
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: on four people? Trust me, a full grown guy who's
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: motivated with a knife in his hand could kill four
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: college kids. That could happen when he's getting him. Two
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: of them are asleep. They're young women.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: They're probably all buzzed.
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: They are all buzzed. Like if you look at the
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: video of them at the taco truck or whatever that place,
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: like It's a typical Saturday night that we all had
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: in college. They're not doing anything wrong.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: But, yeah, they're all buzzed. The one downstairs that saw
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: him has gotten a whole lot of heat for she
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: says that she looks out and sees him and then
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: goes back to sleep. So I think that, you know,
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: it's a bunch of young, I think I can say, well,
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: young women, I can say without offending anybody, right, like,
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: Back in our day, it would have been a bunch
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: of girls living in a house.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Because there were the two that survived. There's one that
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: saw him and then one that we've never heard from.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: Right. And the one that saw him, I think that
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: when she was talking to police, I think that she
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: was doing that through the filter of what she woke
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: up to in the morning. And I don't think she
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: connected that ever. I mean, we're still in the middle
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: of COVID. She's a guy with a mask leaving the house,
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: four young women living in a college house like Young
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: men walking out of that house in the middle of
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: the night was probably not an unusual thing. So I
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: think she sees that, thinks, okay, everything's quiet now, goes
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: back to sleep, wakes up to Helter Skelter in her apartment.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: And so I think when she was giving that interview
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: with the police, it was through the shock of her
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: seeing my dad.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: But now they're saying that, no, now there is some
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: text proving that they were awake. That was the latest
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: thing I saw.
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: That she was awake? Or that they were awake when
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: he got inside the house.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: That they were somehow texting each other about like, did
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: you hear that? That's weird.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: I'd be curious to see those.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: But I also think, you know, it could have been
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: something where they just are like, what was that? You
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: hear like a boom, like shut up. You know, and
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: then it's silence because they're dead. And then you're like, well,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: is the girl fighting with her boyfriend? Or all right, whatever.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: I don't want to get involved. And then did you
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: hear that? No, I didn't. Or something like that. And
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: then the other girl that we've never heard from, I
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: heard from like my person that she is just, was just,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: you know, done like so needing major mental health help, everything.
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: And I mean, imagine walking into that. Both of them,
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: I'm sure. Yeah. Knife homicides are really ugly things. Yeah.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: Because it's, people die from what's called exsanguination. They bleed
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: to death. That's how you, that's how you die from
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: a knife.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: And so, yeah, the, this scene, yeah, it would have
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: been horrific. Yeah.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: And just everybody depicting like the kids and how they
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: did it. And I'm like, gosh, you know, I think
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: that's always the biggest thing with like watching the 2020s
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: and the date lines is like when someone, you know,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: is the suspect or is the husband and it's like, well,
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: he was crying, but no tears came. He was doing this.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: And here's a moment where we see them chuckle. Well, like,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: you know, even after the worst deaths and stuff and
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: people coming around and There's a moment where you're like,
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: you know, you might have like a laugh, like, and
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: you know, and then that gets on camera and forever,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: that's what they play over and over again. Oh, obviously
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: he did it or she did it or, you know.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that young woman downstairs has gotten an unfair amount
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: of criticism, I think.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, and like, there's no way that either one
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: of them even certainly didn't go back to that school.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: How could you ever go back to school?
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, like, besides the worst thing that could happen,
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: your friends being murdered, You don't have a college life anymore.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: You don't have, you know, anything.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and imagine that. You're the one that has to
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: have people go, wait, how come you didn't call the
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: cops for the rest of her life?
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: You know, which is, you know, I mean, just, and
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: it wouldn't have made any difference either, by the way.
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: It wouldn't have saved them because this was quick. He
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: was in and out. Things went wrong.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: I think originally people thought she heard it and, you know,
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: originally I thought she heard it, but she was smart enough.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: To just stay quiet and maybe in staying quiet, like
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: didn't even want to turn on her phone or anything.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Like then she fell asleep, like in staying quiet, fell asleep,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: then woke up and then was like, was that a dream?
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: What happened? Then saw it, then called the guys that
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: live next door. Then they called the cops.
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, they're I think you hit the nail
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: on the head, though. It's life altering for them and
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: their victims, too. And I'll tell you what, when they
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: put the pieces together on this guy, another thing that
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: hasn't been released is what's on his computers. I can't
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: wait to hear about that because it's going to be
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: a cornucopia of masochistics, sadomasochism stuff. God only knows, but
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: it won't be– it'll be telling to the mental state
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: of Brian Koberger, I'm sure. The computers are always– Especially
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: you get a couple of good friends and people on it.
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: They can always find whatever sick stuff he was into.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: It's going to be on his computer.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: And he wasn't smart enough. Like the guy took his
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: freaking cell phone with him. Like, I mean, it's laughably stupid.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Do you think the dad knew?
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: Which dad?
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: His dad. Remember they were driving together?
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: I don't think so either.
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: And here's another fascinating thing about serial killers. And a
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: lot of people don't know. Like we always think of
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: Buffalo Bill and Silence of the Lambs and, you know,
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: somebody that's horribly abused. The vast majority of serial killers
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: are spoiled as kids. And they– like Jeffrey Dahmer came
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: from an intact home. He had a pretty good relationship
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: with his dad. They kind of fudged that a little
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: bit I think in the documentary because almost trying to
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: make it fit. Rodney Alcala, the case I did, the
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: dating game killer. And Anna Kendrick is coming out with
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: a movie on that. that I got to help out on,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: which is awesome.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm supposed to say that yet.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: What's that crime about? He was a serial killer in
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: the 70s. And then I wound up prosecuting him after
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: he got reversed for the second time. And then we
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: got a whole bunch of DNA heads to a bunch
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: of murders in L.A. But he had a genius level IQ,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: had a loving home, had successful brothers and sisters. His
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: brother came back a war hero from Vietnam, went to
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: West Point.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Wait, so in the 70s he killed?
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: In the 70s, yeah.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: In where? What city? L.A. L.A.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: And Orange County.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: And who was he killing there?
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: He was– I mean a lot of these guys go
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: towards prostitutes. He was following really nice women home from bars,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: all of them. Every victim he had was like a–
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: was a legit– like one was a pediatric cancer nurse,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: killed her in Georgia Wickstead up in Malibu.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: And would he like– just as they're getting out of
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: their car, walking to their door or how would he
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: do it?
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: He would break in. He would fall into their apartments
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: and cut screen doors and he'd do it in summer.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: It was the same time.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: The same night or he'd know where they lived and
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: then come back another day?
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: We think the same night, but probably a little bit
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: of that too. He'd meet them out in bars, follow
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: them home.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: And would they think he was normal?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: When he met them in bars?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: Well, he was a handsome, like he had the look
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: of the 70s. And he had a genius level IQ.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: He graduated from UCLA and went to NYU film school.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: It is quite a story.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: And how would he kill them?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: He appeared on the dating game. In the middle of
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: his spree.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is the dating game killer?
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: Dating game killer.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: And then did he, like, how would he do it?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: Like strangle or?
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: He would rape them to death in every way. He
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: would use, and then he would strangle them, bludgeon them,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: some of them. One he murdered with a hammer after
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: raping her with a hammer. Imagine that. He was brutally sadistic.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: And he came from, he went to Cantwell High School.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: That was in our little world of Catholic private prep schools.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: Yearbook committee, got a varsity letter in cross country.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: And so then wait, then he got away with it
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: for how long?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: Well, so he murdered a girl named Robin Samso in 1979.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: She was 12.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, so then he started doing kids?
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He was equal opportunity. He raped and attempted to
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: murder a girl named Tali Shapiro, who was eight years
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: old in 1968. Goes back to the East Coast, gets away.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: Cops broke his door down, and it was like, save
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: dying little girl, catch bad guy. And they saved the girl.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: He got to New York.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, they went in while it was happening?
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. There was a good Samaritan called it in. It's
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: an amazing story.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Wait. Tell the story.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: Okay. So he is living in Hollywood, graduated from UCLA
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: Film School, picks up an eight-year-old.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: After he's already killed regular eights.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: No, he hasn't killed anybody yet that we know of.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: This is as he's getting started. This is 1968.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: So she's walking to school. She's eight. Back in the
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: days when parents would let eight-year-olds walk to school. Gets
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: her into his car. A good Samaritan sees this. drives
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: her instead of school to his house, walks her into
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: his little bungalow in Hollywood. The good Samaritan finds a payphone,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: calls police. The cop who shows up, last name is Camacho,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: he's a freaking hero, was shot in Vietnam and shot
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: during the Watts riots. His first day back at work,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: he gets this call for a welfare check, knocks on
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: the door. All calls like, hey, I'm just getting out
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: of the shower. He gives it like two seconds, kicks
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: the door in, finds this little girl who's been raped brutally,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: and there's a barbell on her neck, and she is dying.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: She was in a coma for 32 days, and he gives,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: and naked bad guy goes running out of the house,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: and he renders a life-saving aid to the little girl,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: saves her life, but I'll call it got away, gets
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: to New York, somehow gets accepted to the NYU film school,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: really wanted to be a photographer, uses a fake name,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: and he's on the FBI 10 Most Wanted list.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: Because they know who he is because he owned the
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: house or whatever or lived in the house.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he left all his ID. And also inside the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: house were thousands of photographs of young women, young boys
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: and girls in the woods, in rooms with him. And
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: nobody knows what happened to any of them. He killed
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: 100 people at least.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because especially back then it was like so much harder.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: And no DNN. And he's also the way he was
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: doing it. He's disposing of bodies in.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Ravines and stuff. Okay, so then he goes to New
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: York for a while.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: And he's working, get this, at an all-girls summer camp
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: in Vermont. And two of the little campers get caught
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: in a rainstorm, duck into the post office, and they're
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: waiting for the rain to pass. And they see Mr. Berger.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: His alias was John Berger. Mr. Berger is on the
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: FBI 10 Most Wanted list. And they're like, maybe we
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: should tell somebody. They extradite him back to L.A. But
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: he didn't kill anybody at the camp. He didn't kill
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: anybody at the camp, but he killed at least three
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: people that we know of.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: In New York?
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: In New York and in Vermont areas. Yeah. At least three,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: certainly more. But he eventually was convicted of at least
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: two murders during that time.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: So then he comes back to LA. Comes back to LA.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: So this is a guy who has kidnapped, raped, and
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: attempted to murder an eight-year-old. And he gets a life sentence,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: but the DA gave it away for a simple child molest.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: But back then it was what's called indeterminate sentencing, which
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: is An outrageous prosecutorial decision. I hope the person who
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: made it is.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Alive and listening. Because they didn't know that he'd kill
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: anyone in New York.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: Because they sucked. They sucked.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: So they let him off.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: And then the parole board, board of prison terms, released
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: him with a life sentence. They released him after 34
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: months in custody.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Out into LA again.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: Out into LA again.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: And that's when he gets on the dating game?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: That's where he started killing everybody. That's where he killed
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: all of our own victims.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: So we had- While getting on the dating game.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: In the middle of his spree, he was on the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: dating game. He was given permission to travel cross country
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: in his car. Um, and he killed, uh, four in
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: Los Angeles that we convicted him of. And then one
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: in Orange County. He was suspected of, I think four
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: or five on the East coast. He was convicted of two.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: He did one in Marin County that was cleared to him. Um, Yeah,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: he went on a spree.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Wait, how did you work on this?
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: So he was convicted and sentenced to death in 1979.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: Rose Byrd with the old Byrd Supreme Court in California.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: She was an anti-death penalty zealot, essentially, who would reverse
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: every death penalty case she got. So she reversed it.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: He gets tried again. A guy named Tom Goldfuss was
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: the prosecutor a second time. He's now an appellate court justice.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: Really smart, really good prosecutor. Convicts him again, gets another
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: death penalty. goes through the California Supreme Court, then winds
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: up in front of the Ninth Circuit, and he gets
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: reversed again. And it lands on my desk in 2004
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: for its third retrial. And that was before we had
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: any of the DNA hits in LA. And it was
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: interesting reading some of the opinion on that. It was
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: almost as if- How old is he?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: Did he die?
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He just passed away a couple of years ago
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: on death row of dementia, of all things.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an amazing story. And it's a cautionary tale
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: to kind of some of the stuff.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: We're seeing now. And so then you worked on it.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: You had to go through all that stuff.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: Right. So I teamed up with a DA named Gina Satriano,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: who I love to death. And we had that case
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: for probably seven years. And then he wound up representing
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: himself at trial because he's a psychopath, just like Ted Bundy.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: They all love to represent themselves. So I had to
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: deal with this guy. And it was fascinating. He'd come
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: in because he's a genius, a certifiable genius. Super charming,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: super manipulative. And he's representing himself. And, you know, if
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: one juror buys into it, we lose. And we got
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: to try it in front of this fantastic judge named
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: Francisco Briseño, who is awesome. That's one of the stories
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: in the book.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: All right. We're going to end soon. But what is
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: going on with the beach serial killer, Rex Briseño? Who
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: are men? Yeah.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: So another, kind of another fascinating example of serial killers.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: So this guy is, you know, that, that, that image
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: that we have that they're somehow abused, like what could
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: make them do it. And the reality is a lot
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: of these guys are born more than they're made. And
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: Alcala was not abused by anybody. This guy also, um,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: he is, he had his own architecture firm in Midtown Manhattan. Um,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: he had a family. He lived in a nice area
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: of Long Island. And, um, He is suspected of 18
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: different murders. They've charged him right now with three and
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: these women were bound up in these burlap sacks. And one,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: I will be really interested to see if you're from,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: you know, the show Dexter, where he was like, he
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: would gown up and make sure that no DNA was there.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: He was doing, he had to be doing something similar
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: to that because all of these bodies were wrapped in burlap,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: which is a unique signature of But there's no DNA,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: no nuclear DNA. So there's two kinds of DNA. There's
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: nuclear DNA and there's mitochondrial DNA.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: Do you think that Dexter, the show, may have given
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: people ideas?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: Maybe. Maybe. There's a great scene in The Departed, too,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: where Mark Wahlberg at the end murders the corrupt cop
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: that was Matt Damon. Right. And he's wearing like he's
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: all gloved up and he's got a he's got a
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: hair mask or hair.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: Hair thing on. So you see that now in well-written stuff.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, I think that this guy
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: somehow managed not to pass on DNA. And that's fascinating.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: And he got him with hairs.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: And I mean, there were stories done on this, you know,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: and yes, all these girls were sex workers that a
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: lot of them were called up. And there was one
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: where dropped off and running and like. there was, weren't
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: there like one or two that survived it or survived him?
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: There was one that, yes, but there was one in
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: particular that burned him. They did what's called a John
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: roll where he, she, she took his money, but didn't
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: provide the services, like had her boyfriend come in and feign.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: And the night before she was murdered, it was, that's
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: the witness who saw the, uh, his car or a
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: car that was matched the description of his car. And
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: he said that, you know, Hey, that wasn't a nice
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: thing to do. And then she disappeared the next night. And, um, So,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: and she was found.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: So wait, she met him as a John.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: And then ripped him off.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: Didn't have sex with him.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: Didn't have sex with him.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: And then the next.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: And then she disappeared. I think it was the very
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: next night.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: So he found her wherever she was, not necessarily at
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: his house. Yeah.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: But what's, every good case is a collage of evidence.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: Like you never want to just rely on DNA or
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: just one thing. You always want cross corroborating information. So
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: the DNA that they got on this guy is we're
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: from hairs and hair instead of like, so you've got
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: nuclear DNA or you've got mitochondrial DNA. Nuclear DNA is
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: where we get that like one in eight octillion numbers, right?
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: Like that's, you'll hit on every genetic marker. So that's
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: where you come up with these super crazy numbers. The
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: numbers on this are going to be like one in
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: a hundred because it's mitochondrial or mito as they call it.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: So it's going to be I don't know if you
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: remember the clip.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: So that's not as good, obviously.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: It's not as good.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: So his defense lawyer was out on the courthouse steps going,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: no competent professional is going to say that this is
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: my guy, which is a little bit of a play
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: on words because no matter what the numbers are, mathematically,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: the term of art is they cannot be eliminated. That's
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: what the forensic scientists will say. We cannot eliminate him,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: even if it's the frequencies like one and eight octillion
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: or made up numbers. So- What's fascinating about the Heurman
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: case is that they're going to have to overlap the
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: cell phone stuff because this guy was so sadistic. He
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: wasn't done just with them. He would actually take some
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: of the victim's cell phones and taunt their family members.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: So one of these victims got phone calls from the
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: killer of her sister saying, you know, essentially mocking her
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: and taunting her. But the cell phone, he was doing
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: that as he was on the road. So that cell
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: phone was pinging to towers along with his burner phone
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: that he was using for like dating apps and stuff
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: and also his personal cell. So they're relaying off the
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: same towers back and forth from his home to Midtown Manhattan,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: which is even more convincing than the DNA, I think.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: This is just like a crazy thing, but I saw
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: this like on a TikTok where It was years ago.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: And Howard Stern and Robin were like talking about this
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: case and who this killer might be. And he's like, watch,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: he's going to be an architect or something.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: Did he really?
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was just a lucky guess, obviously. It
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: was a lucky guess. But it's like kind of crazy
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: when you actually– because I predict things all the time
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: and lots of times my stuff comes true, never to
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: that effect. But I was like, wow, that's pretty on
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: the nose.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: But if you think about it, Howard Stern, whether you
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: like him or hate him, he's a super intelligent guy.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: Right. And he was like this– basically what he was
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: saying is this guy is going to be someone who's
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: walking among us that's like has his shit together and
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: that type of thing, not– some weird guy from the woods,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: That, and that's what's fascinating about true serial killers is
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: that they, they can, they can be in front of
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: you in line at Starbucks and you would never know
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: in a million years. And that's how they get women
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: to get into their cars. That's how they're able to
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: lure people into positions of vulnerability. And they're almost all
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: smart and they've, and almost all are, in my experience,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: they tend to be spoiled as kids. It's really interesting,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: not abused, but spoiled. And so it's, it's a bizarre
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: sense of entitlement and, um, Yeah. Yeah. I think we're
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: going to see more and more of these as we
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: tack society-wise towards stuff like no bail and, you know,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: all that sort of soft on crime business that we're
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: seeing in our beloved city of Los Angeles.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: That doesn't end well. And I think we're going to
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: see more Rex Ehrmans, more Gogo Beach guys as things
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: go forward. Because had Alcala in the modern era kidnapping
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: an eight-year-old girl and almost killing her, That guy never
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: should have been released. And the fact that he was
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: cost the lives of probably 100 people. And I just
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: I worry because it's been so long since we had
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: like the reign of the serial killers in L.A. because
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: the Hillside Strangler and Angela Bono, Skid Row, Slasher. We
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: had all of these guys were active at the exact
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: same time in the late 70s and early 80s. And
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: I fear for all of our safety. These guys will
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: be getting out.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. For some of them. And you can't fix them either.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: Of course not.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: They don't get better. Medication doesn't work.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: You think they're serial killers that are going to get out?
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: They don't have a life sentence.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: You mean? 100%. Yes. Absolutely. I guarantee it. I mean,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: there are people that are in for murder right now.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: Like George Gascon in Los Angeles County has prohibited his
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: deputies from going and opposing life or release on parole.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: So the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office right now
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: As a matter of course, you send a deputy to
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: oppose dangerous murderers from getting out. Gascon has ended that
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: in Los Angeles County. So if it's a murder committed
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: by somebody when they were 18 and they've got all
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: the juice in them and they're one of these guys,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: if they're paroled because it is not opposed by the
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: sitting district attorney of Los Angeles and they get out,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: they will absolutely kill again. No doubt. Like, The little
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: gangster who does it back in the day, I think
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: a lot of them, the juice is out of them.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: By the time they're 45, they just want to sit
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: on their couch and watch a lecture game. A lot
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: of them aren't dangerous. That was part of my job
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: for years. I've been to every prison in California that
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: has lifers. And some of them, they really don't pose
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: a danger, depending on the circumstances. But these guys, they
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: will until they stop drawing breath. The serial killers, the psychopaths,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: Those guys, if they're in for murder number one and
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: were only prevented from murders two through 25 because they're
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: in prison, when they are out, they will re-offend.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: Pick up again.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, 100%.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: Lock your doors. Not to end on a downer.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: Try to vote correctly. So do you have any 2020
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: stuff or anything coming up? Yes.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: So I got so much stuff I'm excited about. A
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: quick funny story. I'm in. They're letting me do a
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: bunch of stuff with News Nation, which is a new
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: up and coming. And I've gotten to be friends with
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: a couple of their hosts. One of them is Elizabeth Vargas.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: And she's awesome, by the way. She is a phenomenal person.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: Like her whole history is interesting. So she's been really
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: nice to me and given me a bunch of live
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: spots on her show. And live TV is a different ballgame.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: Like I don't know what camera to look at. And
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: it feels a little bit like a closing argument. And
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: so last week I'm in New York City. And I've
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: just done her show, and we were talking about– I
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: think we were talking about that Armstrong case, the little runner,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, I'm at the elevators, and
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 3: do you know who Ashley Banfield is?
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Wait, who's– which little runner?
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: The Caitlin Armstrong. Oh, Caitlin Armstrong.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, sorry. And then who did you
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: ask me?
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: And I'm leaving, and the production assistants walk me out.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: And Ashley Banfield, do you know who that is?
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, super famous, like used to be with NBC, also
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 3: could not be nicer. she comes up to me at
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: the elevator and she's like, she's got her makeup thing
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: around her neck. And so she got up out of
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: the chair to come over and she's like, Hey, I
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: really enjoy your interviews, which is hugely flattering to me.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: And she's like, my name's Ashley. Um, I'd love it
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: if you came on my show. It's like, Ashley, who like,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: you know, she it's like, yeah, you're very famous. I'd be,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: I would love to do it. So she had me
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: on three times last week. Yeah. Super fun. Super fun. So, uh,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: doing a bunch of I crime stuff with Elizabeth Vargas
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: for her show. Uh, uh, iCrime. It's basically videos of
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: the day. And so I've gotten to do some commentary
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: on that. I got it just shot for a new
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: 2020 last week. I did 14 different interviews last week
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: in New York City for different shows and stuff, which
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: is an absolute blast. And hopefully that keeps going.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: Well, no one knew who you were before Juicy Scoop.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: So good luck.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: I've got to tell you, the people that have started
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: following me, your fans are so nice. They're the best.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: I've gotten the nicest comments. It's a weird, hateful world
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: on online media. And everybody that has followed me from
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: your show has just been really, really nice. So I'm,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: I'm super grateful for you.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: The real Juicy Scoopers are the best and honest and
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: love the people that are on my show and are not.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: So if you ever get some weird psycho, they're not
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: really a Juicy Scooper. They're pretending to be, to make
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: me look bad. Yeah.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Yes. Cause the real Juicy Scoopers are great.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: So tell everybody where they can follow you though.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: Matt Murphy Law on Instagram. And yeah, and I've got,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: If anybody's interested in the book, it's a glacial age
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: before it's actually going to come out right now.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what's good about this? You've got to
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: be strategic. I'm like, right now, there's three or four
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: books out that is in the Juicy Scoop world. There's
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: Britney coming next week. There's Julia Fox. There's Jada Pinkett Smith.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: I want to say there's another one. I'm like, God,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: I would not want my book to be coming out
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: this week. So what's good about being with a good publisher,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: they'll make sure that... your book is not gonna be
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: competing with anything remotely similar. And that's where it's good
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: And I'm not complaining. They've treated me great, but it's just,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: I want to, I'm super eager. I want people to
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 3: read it.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: Well, what I think would be is great is, especially
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: your story, like it could totally be a movie, it
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: could be a series, it could be whatever. So I
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: think that's why there's no rush. That's what's always so
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: great about a book. It's like the, it's the ultimate
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: calling card. Like even if something doesn't happen, even if
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: it's a hit and nothing happens for, and you're like, oh,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: I guess all those meetings, nothing happened. You don't know
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: that in like five years, 10 years, all of a sudden,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: you know, and that's what's so great about it. Putting
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: all the time and effort into it. It's like, you
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: have this piece of property just like a, like, just
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: like a piece of real estate that can be sold
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: later on.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Plus it's just, for me, it's been, it's been
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: fascinating to write it, like just going back and I
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: kept journals.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow. That's great.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: I'm going through reading old journal entries and it's mostly,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: that's like stony thoughts in my head. Like, you know,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: I should probably be committed after people actually read what
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: I wrote, but it's like watching an autopsy, the stuff
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: that would go through my head, you know? Um, So
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: I think hopefully people will like it.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: They will.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: It's more personal than I originally set out for it
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: to be.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: I think it's great.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Hopefully. Hopefully.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: Matt Murphy. What's your Insta?
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: Matt Murphy Law.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: Matt Murphy Law.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: for it? This exclusive place that Dad has connections with.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: They have more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: It's Dune ADL.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: Where?
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: Dunaidial. There's an accent on the E. Do you mean... Yes,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: I got it on Dundale Cars. Lift? Please. Are you
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.