Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #314 - For Azeroth!: "Look Who's Knocking"

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#314 - For Azeroth!: "Look Who's Knocking" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

• 0:00
  I actually watched this movie in the middle of COVID on a first
• 0:03
  date with a guy who kept trying to like man playing World of
• 0:05
  Warcraft more to me and was wrong.
• 0:08
  Every single time he tried to crack me, he was incorrect.
• 0:11
  He was, it was something like he was like, Oh yeah, like that's a
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  blood elf. And I was like, I don't think
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  the blood elf existed at that point.
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  And he was like, no, it was a blood elf.
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  It's still 100%. So that that's the that's the
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  blood elf to the burning. Region.
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  For Gilnaeus, but has not died. For the Lich King, for the
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  Sindori, for the Alliance, for the Horde.
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  For Azeroth. Hello and welcome back to
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  another episode of For Azeroth. I am one of your hosts, Manny,
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  AKA True Villain Manny, and I am joined by the other two parts of
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  the Axis of Wow, the triumphant, the, the my friends, my, my
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  genuine good friends. Thank you so much for joining me
• 1:02
  today, Lex and Sean. Lex, how are you and how's the
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  World of Warcraft treating you? I am good.
• 1:08
  The World of Warcraft is treating me good.
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  I am very excited for 11.1. I'm starting to get hype and I
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  am also very excited for the temperatures around me to be in
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  the 20s and above Fahrenheit for the next week at least.
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  I am not super jazzed for 11.1, but we can get into that a
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  little bit. That's spicy.
• 1:37
  Yeah, but like what? We'll get into that.
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  But I, I'm, I'm glad that you'll be able to go for your walks and
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  you'll, you'll be able to burn off some of that extra energy
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  that you seem to have. And what about you, Sean?
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  How are you? Doing Manny, I think the Axis
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  were the bad guys I. I mean, I am the true villain.
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  You're right. The Axis were the bad guys.
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  Yes, they were the Axis of evil, but there's other Axis.
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  This is but yes, that is the why axis.
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  We are the why, Yeah. People often refer to us as the
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  why, actually. Things like why are they still
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  talking? Why do I still listen?
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  OK, well let's get into the World of Warcraft.
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  Remind people why they listen. Then we have of course some new
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  news about 11.1. There has been a new build and
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  along with the new build, we've gotten some changes like to 0 in
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  on some of the class changes. In particular, we had some
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  warrior changes. This has been a continuing
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  subject on this show because warriors got to change.
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  John, you finally got some reasoning behind it and you were
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  you were you felt a bit better now that there was some method
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  for the madness. But how you feeling about these
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  latest Warrior changes? And tell us a little bit about
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  what's happening. Feeling good.
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  So when, you know, on the last episode of four Azeroth, we left
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  and I had made the mental change to try to, you know, grasp the
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  philosophy that the devs were going forward Warrior and
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  embrace it. And I have been able to do that.
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  I've been enjoying Warrior more on PTR, but shortly after we
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  recorded that episode, show favorite Kyvax came on the the
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  forms and posted another breakdown saying, hey, we get
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  it. We we know that there's some
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  changes and as we said, we're watching it and they've made
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  some bumps to shield slam. This is the initial nerf is a
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  bit too much on the reset chance.
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  We're bringing it back a bit more.
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  So they are continuing to tweak those dials.
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  And then in the actual PTR notes for this week's build, there's a
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  longer, longer piece where they talk about it and they just talk
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  about how they're really trying to make it accessible to new
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  players, but also keep that skill expression for experienced
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  players. They're either they're obviously
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  listening, right? They they came up with those
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  rage nerves and people did what people do.
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  And that was the initial, Oh my God, doom and gloom, the killing
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  warriors. Why no put it, give it back,
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  give it back, please. But they've shown consistently
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  from that first post up till today that they're everything
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  they're doing is with the intention of making it a better
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  experience for everyone. And I'm here for it.
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  I'm on board. And that's just a small drop in
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  the bucket of the changes in the news that we got.
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  But I know everybody tunes into For Azeroth for that Prot
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  Warrior watch. So we thought we'd get it out of
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  the way early. It's actually for Prot Warrior,
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  it's our new name. I wanted to talk about it
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  because I I kind of wanted to leap off of it a little bit.
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  The big change that they made because of Warriors is that APM,
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  they'd really wanted to slow it down and everything.
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  And I'm kind of against that. I mean, maybe Warrior isn't the
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  place for that, but I think that is an enjoyable, it's an
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  enjoyable playstyle for some people.
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  And we have hero classes, hero talents, We have a number of
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  places that they could put it where it isn't necessarily on
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  the beginner part, like if it is, if it was on where demon
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  hunters are, where you need to be at a certain level in the
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  past, they've now changed all these hero classes so that they
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  all start at level 10. That's that's a gate that they
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  took away. But if it was gated behind
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  getting the level 55 for Death Knight, getting up to like
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  whatever level to create a Demon Hunter, making these hero
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  classes truly, hey, you've got you got experience and stuff.
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  Here's a more complicated, more demanding class.
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  I think that play style could be there.
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  I think that it's enjoyable for people and certain.
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  And it's definitely a way of separating the play style of one
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  spec versus another. If Guardian druids who also use
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  rage play but in a slower APM moment that is less demanding,
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  then allow warriors to differentiate themselves with
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  the higher more demanding APM. Or allow one hero spec of
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  warriors to do it that way and people who don't want to do that
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  because hero specs are only in the last 10 levels could switch
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  off to something else. I just I don't I understand what
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  they're doing, but I do not believe this is A1 size fits all
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  approach. I, I think I and like Sean is
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  right at this point, doesn't really matter what we think that
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  like the, the changes are here to stay.
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  I will say when I heard their initial reasoning, I was like,
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  OK, like not every class is for every person.
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  Like it's OK if not everything is good for new players because
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  like there's how many class like or potential specs in this game
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  Like so I, I thought it was silly.
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  I think that, you know it's OK for something to be too hard for
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  the average player as long as they're joyful for the people
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  who play them. But ultimately am IA dev no.
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  So who cares? Who cares what I think?
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  If the devs wanted to be more accessible than if more
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  accessible, it shall be. Yeah.
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  All right, well, that's one thing that they're doing.
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  There are, of course, a lot of changes for a bunch of different
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  classes. Shamans are seemingly going
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  through a secondary work in some cases for enhancement Elemental
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  resto getting lighter of a touch, but resto also receiving
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  some stuff. We're losing a major cooldown
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  that we've had for years. I'm still crying about it, but
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  from there I'd like to switch over to the changes that they've
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  done to Mythic Plus. Just sort of an update as they
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  continue to make make changes to Mythic Plus that they're making
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  those adjustments. We've seen adjustments to a lot
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  of the dungeons that we've seen over the past couple of weeks.
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  Big one that I want to call out is that while mind controlled,
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  the Mechagon tinkerers, squirrels cannot be used.
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  And Sean, you were pointing to this last week as a well, let's
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  go to lock in priest sort of thing.
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  And we had a bit of a discussion about like, is it OK to have
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  particular dungeons where particular classes really shine?
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  And I guess the answer is no. I I think it's OK so Lex was
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  very in support of locking classes in.
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  I still am, yeah. Blizzard should decide who gets
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  to play next season. They should be like this is the
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  meta and I'll I'll die on that hill.
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  I did not did. This was not a joke opinion and
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  it did not change in the last. Was it a joke opinion?
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  No, I was going on the fact that it's a joke opinion.
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  OK, sorry, no, I'm kidding. To be clear, to be clear, it is
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  a joke opinion, but it's become one of those joke opinions that
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  I will now die on. So yeah, things can be two
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  things. Yeah, I love it.
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  It's a great change. It's it's OK to have some
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  classes perform better in dungeons.
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  That's OK. Like it's it's OK if your death
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  knight is really good in a dungeon because it gives you,
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  you know, there's a mob that gripping is really it makes it
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  really convenient or the control undead is really convenient
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  theater and looking at you. But it's not OK when one, when
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  the when the thing that that class brings is so dominant and
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  so overpowering that not having one feels almost like you're
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  intentionally hindering yourself.
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  And that's what it was with these mechanical squirrels.
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  I think this is a good change. They made a lot of good changes.
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  I get every week when they post the dungeon changes, They're all
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  positive changes. They my biggest complaint with
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  the first boss in Mexico workshop, the Tonk tussle Tonks,
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  was that the only, only complaint I had was there was
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  too many bombs that were spawning in the first boss
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  fight. And it's the first note on here.
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  Hey, we've reduced the number of bombs that are spawning.
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  They're doing a good job, but there's a trend and I support
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  it, but there's a trend that they're doing with Mythic Plus,
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  but I think also they've started to apply to Delves and that
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  trend is the tuning and the changes are done to make
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  gameplay more fun and fair. That also sometimes sounds like
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  the word easier. And while these changes will
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  make some of these fights easier, I think they're positive
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  change that needed to happen. But there is one aspect of the
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  game that they've changed to make easier that I don't know
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  that we all on the panel agree with.
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  Manny, I don't want you to. Before we jump into that,
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  because I know where you're, you're heading, I do want to say
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  that like, I think that the changes that they're making to
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  Mythic Plus is a matter of mental load where it's, it's
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  easier. And I say with quotation marks
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  because there's not 20,000 things coming at you, right?
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  And that to me is fine. If something, if like 5 things
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  are coming at me and they all hit me for 20%, Oh my goodness,
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  which, which three can I stop? Which two can I stop?
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  I'm still getting wailed for like some something like 40 to
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  60% of my health. That feels unfair and unfun.
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  But if it's like two or three things and I could stop two of
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  them and therefore only get hit for 1/3 of my health, that seems
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  way more manageable and is still within that that range, right.
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  So I think that the mental load and she and reducing and clawing
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  back from that is the is the way to go.
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  I know at the beginning of the expansion this was something
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  where they're like, OK, we're going to make the dungeons the
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  the big thing here, but I think they kind of pushed the dungeons
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  too much to this overload part. And that's why I'm like, OK with
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  it. That's a good distinction.
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  The the cognitive load being, hey, we're reducing cognitive
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  loads. You can actually look at and
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  react to the things happening because there's so much
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  incoming. OK, that's a good distinction.
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  I like that. Also, again, I want to I'm
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  really super clear fast that if you're listening, dungeon
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  changes are super positive. They're ultra good.
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  Please keep making them. Now we're going to talk about
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  Dells. Number of changes have come
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  through. 1 is that they're, you know, generally making Dells
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  easier from 9:00 to 11:00, the extra ones.
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  And this is because the 9 plus have gained some rewards.
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  They are in season 2 Tears. 9:10 and 11:00 will reward more rude
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  crests and that's great for people who want to get this
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  additional stuff. I'm totally against this.
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  I think that 9/10/11 should have remained as aspirational content
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  that yeah, can be tuned hard. But you know what?
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  If you're not enjoying it, there is zero reason for you to do it
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  unless you are some sort of achievement junkie, hunter,
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  whatever, right? Or if you really want that super
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  special mount, this is something you could aspire to get.
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  And that makes sense if this was something that was considered to
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  be like Zik veer, question mark. Question mark was a mage like
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  challenge. It was difficult.
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  It would take you multiple tries.
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  It was something where you'd really have to like figure out
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  your class to be like OK, kite here, use freeze here, whatever
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  it is. And unfortunately, because it is
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  one single challenge that is against all the different specs,
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  some specs have an easier time than others.
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  And I think that is just an A issue inherent to delves as they
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  stand now. Because unless you're going to
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  actually tune it 30X plus ways so that it it hits, it hits way
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  harder, harder against a tank and way easier against like a
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  cloth E. And there's interrupts based on
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  what your abilities are. So it is much closer to the
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  mange tower, which is a huge load for something that they
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  would do every season with how many different variants.
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  I just don't think the tuning is ever going to be tight enough to
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  present a challenge where the fails estate that Sean was
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  saying early is going to be the same for Sean on his protection
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  warrior as it is going to be for me on my enhancement Sean.
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  And it is going to be for like somebody else on their Frost
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  mage, right? Yeah, I think the inherent chat,
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  like the the inherent struggle of single player content is that
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  sorry, sorry, like solo player content in an MMO is that it's
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  just not possible to make it so that it's going to feel the same
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  for everyone. And I think that's OK so long as
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  it's tuned in such a way that it'll be about equally
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  challenging ish for everyone, or like at least that nobody's face
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  rolling it. And but I mean, again, like,
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  yeah, it's hard. There's a reason I'm not a dev.
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  That sounds terrible. I.
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  Just think it's a it's a waste of dev resources to try and make
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  it good, relatively difficult enough for each particular
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  class. And so I think that like it
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  should go to 8. The 9:00 to 11:00 should have
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  zero rewards. It's just there aspirationally,
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  if you want to hit your head against this as like the
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  particular spec that it's the worst on this season because of
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  whatever balancing, right, so be it.
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  If they were to put like a timer on this.
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  And so tanks were having a hell of a time that like low damage
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  tanks were having a hell of a time to do it solo, right?
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  Then we'd have another, another problem.
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  There's so many different ways that this could be more
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  punishing to somebody else next season than it is for for this
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  season. And I don't think it's worth it
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  to put the dev hours into making it like even relatively
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  equivalent, like dilating in much closer.
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  And then the problem is as soon as they throw in these rewards
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  that are actually power games, then of course they had to make
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  it easier and nerf it. And now it's less aspirational.
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  And if I walk in and season season 2 and this becomes
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  something that like halfway through the season, I snore my
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  way through, I feel like not only I have lost something, but
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  all the players and there are so many players that are better
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  than me have lost something. How many players that are worse
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  than than me have actually lost something?
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  Because now it has to be doable for everybody without a without
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  much, without relatively the same amount of effort.
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  Because they have to clear through it, not only once to say
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  they got the special prize and they got their title and they
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  got their achievement. Now they have to do it weekly.
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  And this is the same issue we had with Torgas where they
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  systemized it and it became trash.
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  And I'm really worried about Dells.
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  I'd like to give a little bit of context from everybody who
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  hasn't read the patch notes why they're making 9:10 and 11:00
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  easier. And Manny alluded to it and
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  actually a question about that. So, and the Blizzard says in
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  season 1, everything above its year 8 was exactly what Manny
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  said. It's purely for people who want
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  to challenge. It's tuned that way.
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  This is meant to be difficult for people right up through
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  including mythic geared people at that challenge level.
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  But as we have reported on here and as people have seen online,
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  Blizzard is adding gilded crests from the end of the vault runs
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  for tier 11 Delves. So with that in mind, they said
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  because they're adding rewards at those levels now, the
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  philosophy had to change. And so they're tuning 9:10 and
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  11:00. And there was people on my my
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  Guild who were like, really into Delves, like super into delves.
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  Some of the best players I've ever met in the game loved
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  Delves early season because they were that challenge who are now
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  not interested at all and they so they've lowered the challenge
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  to be balanced at a level where only a fully upgraded delve
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  person could get to now end of delve run the match.
• 18:51
  You can get his champion track year.
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  So you'll be looking at. I'll use this season's numbers.
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  So it's so you understand, but it will be a maximum of 6/19
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  unless they include the end of the bountiful delve chest, which
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  is, I'm sorry, the great Vault Delve +8 and above, which is
• 19:08
  hero track zero track that we tuned to 626 and above, which
• 19:14
  for somebody who only does Delves would potentially take
• 19:17
  you all season to get to. But anybody who does other
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  content inside of Delves is going to be at that equivalent
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  level within the first 3 weeks, maybe the first month.
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  So, So Manny, I hear you and everybody who's listening and
• 19:29
  all YouTube, both obviously know I have no dog in this fight.
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  I have no horse in his race. I am not a delver.
• 19:35
  I don't enjoy Delves. But do you think so you're
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  you're saying 9/10/11 should still just be challenge only?
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  Make them difficult, make them hard, give these people
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  something to do. But if that means you're moving
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  gilded crests, do you think people who are delve only
• 19:52
  players should not have access to gilded crests through delves?
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  I mean, I'm well on record saying that I think that delves
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  should be retuned to the point where they are at like true and
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  level content. So I I think no, I think first
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  of all, I think delves in general should be harder.
• 20:09
  I have had this anxiety since self come out that Blizzard
• 20:13
  saying we want end game open world content, which I think is
• 20:19
  a really great idea, but I worry, and I felt this a lot
• 20:23
  with Delve that the player base has such an opinion of open
• 20:26
  world content being easy, like anyone can do it, no biggie, no
• 20:30
  stress, no fuss. It just, you know, you grind
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  through it. That they would start pushing
• 20:35
  back the second the delves were complex, were at a challenge
• 20:38
  level that was relatable to mythic or M plus heroic rating.
• 20:42
  Mythic rating, which to be fair, they're not actually the delves
• 20:46
  are not meant to be at that level.
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  I think they should be able to reach that.
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  And then I think that's exactly what happened.
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  I think the player base started pushing back because they were
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  like, Oh my God, wait, I'm doing this open world content and I'm
• 20:56
  losing sometimes I don't like that.
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  I don't want that to happen. Make that stop.
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  And I don't think Blizzard should.
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  I think they should make them harder.
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  I think that delves should be like I should be able to reach
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  end game levels and I think that I should have to work to end
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  game like I I should be playing as an end game player to reach
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  the Max level of delves. I wish that I hadn't recently
• 21:21
  heard a podcast where so much of what you are saying Lex was not
• 21:27
  hammered in again and again. There are people who are upset
• 21:35
  that in the war within the bees around Cinder Brew Meteory
• 21:39
  present too much of a challenge. There are people who dislike
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  that they that they have such struggles against rares in the
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  open world that they can't just solo every rare that shows up.
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  And I know that there are different levels of play.
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  I know that there are different levels of gear that become
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  available to players, but I think that there's this.
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  I don't want to call it entitlement, right, but I think
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  that the game has trained people to the level at which they
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  believe that anything that takes more than a modicum of effort is
• 22:37
  too much, right? It is.
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  It's upsetting at at points where people are saying, oh, I
• 22:47
  do single player content and I do Dells and therefore I should
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  be able to get like not even best in slot as in this trinket
• 23:01
  and this stuff at an item level that's relative to that, But
• 23:04
  like the same item level gear as somebody who pushes through the
• 23:08
  most difficult, hardest tuned stuff.
• 23:11
  And like the coordination of 20 players coming together and
• 23:18
  defeating whatever mythic boss should be given equivalently in
• 23:23
  any in any solo content when the solo content can't possibly be
• 23:29
  tuned the same way because solo content that like has a death
• 23:35
  state is binary. You are alive or you're dead,
• 23:39
  right? Whereas with 2040 ten people,
• 23:43
  you can have parts of your team dead.
• 23:45
  You could barely make it. You can work together and
• 23:49
  coordinate better and parts of your team could be stressed and
• 23:53
  like, can I handle that? Whereas if I put that same level
• 23:57
  of onus in the single player world, people would scream.
• 24:05
  People already hate the personal responsibility mechanics that
• 24:10
  slide out of mythic and into the heroic or normal level raids.
• 24:14
  And if that kind of those kind of mechanics started coming out
• 24:18
  in the open world, I could I I could not imagine the level of
• 24:25
  backlash we would we would receive.
• 24:27
  It would be worse than Cataclysm when it was it's initial
• 24:32
  leveling process and the suddenly things didn't bowl roll
• 24:36
  over to like AOE blitzes like they did in wrath.
• 24:39
  People were so upset about that. And this would be the same
• 24:43
  thing. And I just feel like we have
• 24:45
  such a short term memory on these sort of things.
• 24:48
  But like, I don't know, I'm I've got like other hot takes that
• 24:53
  are just off to off topic. But like, I just think that when
• 24:58
  you're dealing with rares like elites, they should require
• 25:04
  either. Like eventually you should,
• 25:06
  you'll outgear them, but they should require more of you than
• 25:10
  you going through regular creatures.
• 25:13
  And in fact, I think the leveling process in general
• 25:16
  doesn't work in Wow anymore, but that's a separate topic.
• 25:20
  This is one thing that I worry a little bit about Blizzard being
• 25:25
  so responsive to player feedback.
• 25:27
  I want to be clear that so far they've been like overwhelmingly
• 25:29
  that that's been really, really positive and good.
• 25:32
  But I do think that occasionally players don't actually know what
• 25:35
  they want. And I think that we don't
• 25:38
  actually want a video game that is faithful.
• 25:42
  I think that we do want challenge, but I think we don't
• 25:44
  think we want challenge. We hit a challenge and we're
• 25:47
  like, I'm experiencing frustration.
• 25:50
  I should go tweet at the mods and say I'm so pissed.
• 25:52
  I'm experiencing frustration. I hate experiencing frustration.
• 25:54
  This is the worst. And then you achieve through the
• 25:56
  frustration and you're like, oh, that was fun.
• 25:58
  I achieved through frustration. This is a good time.
• 26:02
  But I think that if you just catch that moment where you're
• 26:05
  like, I'm experiencing frustration, this sucks and you
• 26:07
  go tell somebody and the the not the mods and the devs are like,
• 26:10
  you're so right. You're experiencing frustration.
• 26:12
  Let's make that go away. Then the game gets worse.
• 26:19
  I mean, there, there, there's different levels, of course,
• 26:21
  like, oh, yeah, of course. Yeah.
• 26:22
  Like, I, I mean, like there is the frustration of, oh, we just
• 26:26
  wiped it out. Like, oh man, we would have got
• 26:28
  that. And then it makes it just that
• 26:30
  much sweeter when you do get it. So like, I think you're right.
• 26:32
  Like a little bit of frustration just makes the payoff that much
• 26:35
  better. And I I agree with you, Lex.
• 26:38
  What about you, Sean? What are you thinking?
• 26:40
  It's weird I guess I don't know. I'm the guy that plays if a game
• 26:44
  has any as a as a like difficulty selector.
• 26:47
  I'm choosing easy every time like I'm going to.
• 26:49
  I played through the Uncharted games uneasy, lovely story.
• 26:53
  I enjoyed myself immensely. But I don't necessarily want to
• 26:58
  play Warcraft on easy mode. There are sometimes I want just
• 27:02
  a narrative joyful experience there.
• 27:03
  Sometimes I want to challenge myself and push myself.
• 27:07
  And I think what makes Warcraft strong is that it allows me to
• 27:10
  do both. There are times when I can go
• 27:12
  and just have a narrative joyful experience or I can just go in
• 27:15
  one shot bosses in an old raid or you know, a normal dungeon
• 27:18
  and just sort of have fun. Time walking is a great example.
• 27:21
  My favorite part of time walking is it just feels fast and fun
• 27:25
  and I feel strong. So I think I think Warcraft
• 27:29
  needs to have a way to balance all of it, which is tough.
• 27:34
  Like Lex has said, you know, none of us here are devs.
• 27:37
  I think specific to delves, I do think Delve only players should
• 27:45
  have access to gilded crests because if they're doing level 8
• 27:51
  delves and above, they're getting hero track out of the
• 27:53
  vault. Hero track needs gilded crests
• 27:56
  to Max it out. It feels terrible to see your
• 27:59
  gear stuck at 4 of 6 and half be forced to have to do content
• 28:03
  outside of what you prefer to get it to get it to six of six.
• 28:08
  There's there is zero other way to get those gilded crests for
• 28:11
  them other than mythic plus or or raid last two bosses or
• 28:16
  mythic rating. So I do think I do think delve
• 28:21
  content needs to have access to gilded crests.
• 28:24
  And I mean, I wouldn't coming into this conversation, I
• 28:27
  wouldn't have said I see the devs point of view here and I
• 28:30
  agree with it. But I I think I have to say that
• 28:33
  because they put the gilded crests at 11, you have to make
• 28:38
  them. You have to think of delves, and
• 28:41
  this is probably why I don't like them, but you have to think
• 28:43
  of delves, something that are designed for people who are only
• 28:47
  doing delves and don't think of them as an Ave. to gear up for
• 28:52
  somebody who's doing raid and also doing mythic Plus.
• 28:55
  You have to think of that delve reward track as this is a a
• 29:01
  piece of content for somebody who just does this content.
• 29:05
  And in that regard, you need to make it so that they can get
• 29:08
  those crests. And the only way to do that is
• 29:10
  to tune those higher levels. The I guess the other option is
• 29:14
  put the gilded crests at +8, bump the difficulty.
• 29:18
  They could have done this. OK, they could have done bumped
• 29:22
  the shifted the difficulty up to 8.
• 29:26
  Like just make that a little bit harder.
• 29:28
  Like put whatever 11 is going to be, make that 8, you know, So
• 29:32
  make them a little bit harder at the low end.
• 29:34
  And then they could have kept 9/10/11 as cosmetic only.
• 29:38
  Or, you know, bragging rights only.
• 29:41
  Don't even call them 9:10 and 11:00.
• 29:42
  Call it bronze, bronze, silver, gold, just like it's now broken
• 29:48
  apart. You these go up to 9 or sorry,
• 29:50
  these go up to 8 and then you have challenge leagues above
• 29:54
  that so that people completely separate separate it.
• 29:57
  It's to me it's not that delves shouldn't be rewarding stuff
• 30:03
  that allows you to complete your journey along the gear that you
• 30:06
  get. I think that that fulfillment is
• 30:08
  good psychologically to be like I've now maxed out all the gear
• 30:12
  that I can get through here. I am now the king of Dallas.
• 30:15
  Wait a second. Hey, there's some challenges
• 30:17
  here. Let me let me go see if I can if
• 30:21
  I can clear through the the leagues above my seasonal, my
• 30:27
  seasonal conquest, right. And I think that is where 9:10
• 30:32
  and 11:00 were originally. And because they now reward
• 30:37
  progress in mechanics, they must now be brought down to a point
• 30:43
  where there are they are far more accessible to anybody else
• 30:48
  who wants to do it for the rewards and not necessarily for
• 30:54
  the challenge is that people will play without a challenge.
• 30:57
  I like, are we looking for a world where you click a button
• 31:02
  and world quest suddenly become like empowered and so you get
• 31:05
  your challenge world quest? I don't know.
• 31:07
  But like it, like the way that Warcraft has been adjusting
• 31:11
  these systems is by allowing higher levels of difficulty.
• 31:16
  And if the world, the world as as a open world, is the one
• 31:21
  place where it doesn't exist outside of rares and people are
• 31:24
  bucking against that. The Dells had it.
• 31:27
  And now they're sort of pulling everything into the limit of
• 31:33
  rewards. And I think that they already
• 31:36
  saw this, this issue and solve this issue with Mythic Plus you
• 31:41
  can go way beyond the reward scope there.
• 31:44
  Do we uncap Dells? And you can go way beyond the
• 31:48
  the reward scope there. I don't, I don't know.
• 31:51
  But I think that is preferable to removing the difficulty that
• 31:56
  could have existed, the challenge that could have
• 31:57
  existed, if it wasn't also giving you this reward.
• 32:01
  Can we talk about what I think is the bigger concern and it's
• 32:04
  how long it took me to get to Why don't we just put the crests
• 32:09
  at 8, maybe 8? Harder, No, no, I think it's
• 32:15
  fine. I think there's multiple
• 32:16
  obviously because they didn't go with that.
• 32:19
  There are multiple ways to go to go at this, but I think go
• 32:24
  ahead. Oh, I just want to, sorry, I'm
• 32:26
  kind of interrupting because I'm feeling really bad.
• 32:27
  And I want to quickly clarify what I was saying because I
• 32:30
  think I sounded like one of those like, if you don't play
• 32:32
  this game on Xtreme Max, you are a bad gamer and you lose.
• 32:37
  I do think that like, their content should be like there
• 32:39
  should be content for everyone at every level.
• 32:41
  And I think that somebody who is in their 80s and has never
• 32:44
  touched a computer in their life should be able to go into World
• 32:46
  of Warcraft and play and have a good time.
• 32:48
  I want them to have content that feels good and then that you
• 32:50
  know, is enjoyable and exciting. I also want somebody who has
• 32:54
  played like, you know, is, is playing video games for money
• 32:58
  and does nothing all day except play video games to have content
• 33:02
  that's fun and exciting for them.
• 33:03
  And I think that there needs to be that progression so that
• 33:06
  everyone is able to do things. I can't do mythic writing and I,
• 33:09
  I don't really want to. I've tried.
• 33:10
  I don't like it. I don't think that means that
• 33:13
  mythic grading needs to be made easier.
• 33:14
  I think that that's fine. I think it's OK and in fact it's
• 33:16
  good that there is levels of World of Warcraft that is
• 33:19
  unachievable to somebody who only plays a few hours a week
• 33:23
  and doesn't really want to like min Max and spend hours
• 33:27
  researching and spend hours doing things.
• 33:28
  I think that's good. I think that I should not be
• 33:30
  able to reach all the content. I think that there are some
• 33:33
  people who would say heroic rating is like that for them,
• 33:35
  and I think that's OK. I don't think they should make
• 33:37
  heroic rating easier because I think the challenge level is
• 33:40
  right for me. And I think the same thing
• 33:42
  should be happening with Delve. I think that there should be
• 33:45
  places that I, I as a player, should not be able to do all of
• 33:48
  Delve. I should hit walls.
• 33:50
  I should have like, this is a point that I can't do it anymore
• 33:53
  and I don't want to. And if I do it, it's going to
• 33:55
  feel frustrating and bad. And I think there's be points
• 33:57
  that are like this is frustrating, but it's joyful
• 33:59
  like and it's frustrating in a way that I can push through and
• 34:02
  I think that's correct. I think that is how a video game
• 34:05
  should work. Anything.
• 34:06
  There also should be delves that you know, you do you.
• 34:08
  You have literally are bought your first keyboard of your life
• 34:13
  today and you do that delve and you're like, Oh, that was a fun
• 34:15
  little time. We enjoyed that.
• 34:17
  Like I think that's good. I think that's how the game
• 34:19
  should be. That is the point I was trying
• 34:20
  to make. Not every single person should
• 34:22
  be doing ethic level or they should delete their account.
• 34:25
  I'm sorry that many answer. No, no, I think that is actually
• 34:29
  quite a good a take generally that I agree with.
• 34:33
  I think that as a where I'm at, and I know I'm not the best
• 34:37
  player, I hope that I'm not the worst player.
• 34:40
  But regardless, I think that there should be stuff for me.
• 34:45
  If I want to work towards it, I can stuff that is perhaps
• 34:48
  something that I'll never reach, but is there for people who want
• 34:51
  to, to do that and stuff for people who don't want to mess
• 34:54
  with the same levels of challenge or frustration or
• 34:58
  obstacles that I that I, that I want to deal with.
• 35:02
  And I think that delves have sort of pushed one way and
• 35:07
  ignored the other. And when people want to be toxic
• 35:10
  about this, they're like, oh, it's be you're catering to the
• 35:13
  hardcore, you're catering to the casuals.
• 35:15
  And I think Blizzard has normally done a good job of
• 35:18
  dealing with the spectrum and I I'm hoping that delves get that
• 35:22
  back somehow the. Idea that there's zero hardcore
• 35:26
  solo gamers is immediately disproven by the existence of
• 35:30
  RPGs like the existence of single player games.
• 35:33
  So like, yes, there are people who would want to push to the
• 35:35
  top level in delves in World of Warcraft.
• 35:39
  I think that they should be allowed to do that, but I'm
• 35:41
  sorry, I will allow us to move on.
• 35:45
  Well, the next topic with with that segue is a big word on the
• 35:52
  World of Warcraft for 2025. And this comes from Holly
• 35:56
  Longdale, your queen, who had a big State of World of Warcraft
• 36:04
  address that came with the Lunar New Year.
• 36:07
  Now there's a lot of things that are in here, but I was hoping we
• 36:11
  could just like pick out points that we thought were really
• 36:14
  cool. For me, I think a big one was
• 36:19
  the new player experience, the returning player experience that
• 36:23
  she spoke about in the where Wow it is and where it's going.
• 36:29
  She referenced Exiles Reach and how that was like a step of
• 36:35
  bringing players into like what modern Wow is.
• 36:38
  And I guess I just said this, but modern Wow I think has such
• 36:47
  a focus on end game that the intro experienced your initial
• 36:52
  like, oh, this is your journey from zero to 70, let's say
• 36:58
  before you even get into the expansion.
• 37:00
  Zero to 70 has been incredibly compromised over the years.
• 37:05
  Specs and how fast they come at you.
• 37:07
  Abilities and how fast they come at you, how quickly you go
• 37:09
  through levels, how quickly you move on from one place to the
• 37:13
  next, and quest hubs and so forth.
• 37:15
  The actual characters that we who have been playing since the
• 37:19
  beginning have like a connection to.
• 37:22
  But somebody who would jump in and do Exiles, reach into
• 37:25
  Dragonflight and then come into the War Within would have no
• 37:31
  idea who the hell Thrall is or Illyria.
• 37:33
  They like, they'd be like, who are you?
• 37:36
  And I think that's a big issue that World of Warcraft has, is
• 37:41
  there is all of this history that has that is treated with
• 37:45
  absolute irrelevance and it is harmful to players who are
• 37:50
  trying to get their footing in this world.
• 37:54
  I I'm not sure if they need to like redo the leveling
• 37:58
  experience of something like Final Fantasy where you actually
• 38:00
  go through all the expansions. That seems like a such a radical
• 38:04
  change and a lot, but there's got to be something that they
• 38:08
  need to do. They should make a better movie
• 38:12
  like the war, the war, World of Warcraft movie that kind of
• 38:14
  flopped because it was kind of bad.
• 38:16
  They should do that, but they should do it well this time.
• 38:18
  So you're going to have people watch the.
• 38:20
  Movie. To this date, I haven't seen it
• 38:24
  that was. Really.
• 38:25
  Good. OK, the movie.
• 38:25
  Here's the thing, the movie is really good if you already know
• 38:29
  World of Warcraft lore. I actually watched this movie in
• 38:32
  the middle of COVID on a first date with a guy who kept trying
• 38:34
  to like mansplay World of Warcraft more to me and was
• 38:36
  wrong. Every single time he tried to
• 38:39
  correct me he was incorrect. But anyway it like he have.
• 38:48
  You seen the movie Mean Girls. You see mean girl Lindsay Lohan
• 38:53
  Every time her I I'm just picturing your inner monologue
• 38:57
  being her inner monologue when Aaron Samuel, she's asking Aaron
• 39:00
  Samuels questions about math. Oh, the derivative is the
• 39:05
  denominator. That's wrong.
• 39:06
  Wrong again. Yeah, exactly.
• 39:13
  He was, it was something like he was like, Oh yeah, like that's a
• 39:15
  blood elf. And I was like, I don't think
• 39:17
  the blood elfs existed at that point.
• 39:18
  And he was like, no, it was a blood elf.
• 39:20
  It's 100%. So that that's the, that's the
• 39:22
  blood elf race. I'm like, you need to shun your.
• 39:27
  Was he at least like cute and good looking So you'd be like
• 39:30
  they're they're quiet honey, let's.
• 39:33
  It was, it was. It was one day.
• 39:36
  I, I actually really, I, I mean, we're obviously sidetracked
• 39:39
  here, so we're diving into it, but I, I really enjoyed the
• 39:42
  Warcraft movie. I saw it overseas.
• 39:43
  I was deployed like I saw it at an on an American base in Spain,
• 39:47
  Road to Spain. And I went with a bunch of
• 39:50
  people who were all Warcraft players.
• 39:52
  So everybody was just like, I just the art direction, very
• 39:56
  true to form. I'm a big fan of.
• 39:58
  I think it's Travis Fimmel's his name, the guy that played, not
• 40:04
  Lothar. No, he did play though.
• 40:08
  Anyway, Travis Journal guy from Vikings, fantastic job.
• 40:12
  And I like Ben Foster a lot and he played Madif, although I've
• 40:15
  been maybe not a great casting because he's kind of young, but
• 40:17
  Madif was young then, so. I yeah, I think it, I think that
• 40:23
  it was, it was like it, it, it felt more to me like Chronicles
• 40:27
  than like a stand alone movie in the sense that it felt like it
• 40:30
  was fanservice, right? It was there for World of
• 40:33
  Warcraft players to watch and be like, ah, that's so cool.
• 40:35
  That's the theme that I remember reading about.
• 40:37
  That's so beautiful and like, that's a valid thing to be.
• 40:41
  But I don't think what I what I want is like, this is a very
• 40:47
  interesting and multi dimension and like layered world with a
• 40:50
  lot of fascinating stories. And I think that the team should
• 40:54
  be capable of, I should say is capable of making a movie that
• 41:00
  would be exciting and interesting to people who
• 41:02
  haven't played the game. And I don't necessarily know
• 41:05
  that the World of Warcraft movie did that.
• 41:06
  But again, I watched it when I had played the game, so.
• 41:10
  Do you think it would have, Do you think Warcraft would not be
• 41:13
  better as a series, maybe an animated series or live action?
• 41:17
  Live action is tough because you really have to nail the art
• 41:19
  style. So you're going to the expense
• 41:21
  of the show is going to be really, really high.
• 41:22
  I need you to under you were you were here when I was like losing
• 41:26
  my mind over that little teaser we had like a Netflix show
• 41:31
  coming and that it was going to be perfect.
• 41:33
  Yeah, you're right, Sean. It would be much cooler like
• 41:36
  that. That would be.
• 41:37
  Really interesting, I I just had completely on my own.
• 41:41
  I I haven't watched Arcane season 2 either, I'll get on
• 41:44
  that too. Don't.
• 41:46
  Don't just live in the world where Arcane Season 1 is this
• 41:49
  perfect creation and skip Arcane Season 2.
• 41:53
  Wow, I I don't think I could do that.
• 41:55
  I. I stopped.
• 41:57
  I watched. I think I quit after 4 episodes.
• 42:01
  5 I might have like I might have got 5 episodes in.
• 42:03
  I could tell you the exact moment when I quit, but it was
• 42:06
  the third episode in a row where I started the episode going, I
• 42:10
  don't understand what is happening.
• 42:13
  Understood. OK.
• 42:13
  And then I was just like, I'm done.
• 42:15
  I'm out, sorry. That's OK.
• 42:17
  Well, getting this train back on track.
• 42:20
  I I honestly think that I just I'm going back to the work half
• 42:29
  movie, you guys. Bring it back on track leveling.
• 42:33
  Yeah, yeah, I, I, I will say as somebody who's played Final
• 42:37
  Fantasy, I strongly do not think that we should make the new
• 42:41
  players play through the entire story, especially if you are
• 42:45
  just kind of trying to go hang out with your friends.
• 42:47
  It is a lot of content to go through.
• 42:51
  And Final Fantasy 14 or whatever is the online Final Fantasy is
• 42:56
  much younger than World of Warcraft.
• 42:58
  Like if you had to play through all of the like the entire
• 43:00
  storyline to get there, that would I, I, I, I'm not, I, I
• 43:04
  think I, I see where you are coming from that with that with
• 43:08
  coming from with that Manny. I think that would actually make
• 43:11
  the new player experience significantly worse.
• 43:13
  That said, I do think that like an expedited version of that
• 43:16
  where like it is very careful, like you're, you're playing
• 43:19
  through certain. Or maybe if you have like an
• 43:24
  option to play through like a, a quicker story where you don't
• 43:27
  have to go on all the little like, oh, and then we do this
• 43:29
  for 50 hours and you're going to go through this little path and
• 43:32
  then it's a surprise when this thing pops out and you just go
• 43:34
  to the main story beats. That might be fun.
• 43:38
  Taliesin from fame to YouTube channel Taliesin Evatal has
• 43:43
  well. I'm suggested a Path of the
• 43:46
  Curator using Chromy Time and the Bronze Dragon flight where
• 43:50
  you level from 10 to 70 or whatever the Max level is
• 43:55
  through exactly what you said, Lex.
• 43:57
  The main story beats from each expansion and it culminates at
• 44:00
  the end of the expansion in a fight against the raid boss with
• 44:05
  a follower fight, like a story mode fighting as a raid boss.
• 44:09
  And I think that works, especially if you make it
• 44:10
  optional. Yeah, it's tough.
• 44:14
  Lex is right. You can't if you just forced
• 44:17
  people to play through the previous expansions because
• 44:21
  there's no coherent story in the main leveling area because it's
• 44:24
  all half ripped apart by Cataclysm.
• 44:26
  So it's like vanilla quests mixed with Cataclysm quests.
• 44:30
  And then it's you're into Burning Crusade where there's
• 44:34
  not really. Like I can't point to one thread
• 44:37
  of a story that runs through Burning Crusade from I've come
• 44:40
  through the dark portal in the Hellfire Peninsula to I'm
• 44:43
  fighting Calfas at the sun. Well, like I couldn't get, you
• 44:46
  know, oh wait, didn't we fight him?
• 44:48
  Let's keep barely a set back. Yeah.
• 44:52
  So I don't know, it's tough, but I would like to see there be
• 44:56
  something I would love for a way that doesn't require reading
• 44:59
  through the Chronicles books, which may or may not change
• 45:02
  depending on who's sitting in the director's chair.
• 45:06
  Yeah, but I am excited that they're working on it because I
• 45:09
  really enjoyed Excels Reach. I'd like to see new ways that
• 45:11
  they develop that. OK.
• 45:14
  So then, all right. So then is there anything else
• 45:18
  from this 2000 25 state that you wanted to point out, John?
• 45:26
  Yeah, I want to talk about their focus on the social aspect of
• 45:30
  Warcraft. So Holly specifically calls it
• 45:33
  out. Social stands alongside their
• 45:35
  other initiatives like expansions and housing to
• 45:37
  provide solutions and features like rewards for positive
• 45:43
  behavior, which is something we talked about here.
• 45:45
  When we were, I can't remember what episode it was.
• 45:47
  We were brainstorming ways to fix mythic plus or to change
• 45:51
  mythic plus. And one of those things that we
• 45:53
  said was if they made it like a, a random queue where you queued
• 45:56
  in, you could reward people for good play based on being
• 46:00
  positive people. And then that would like raise
• 46:02
  their lift their rating and it all They also she also
• 46:05
  specifically mentions role-playing in this post.
• 46:08
  I think this is the first time since 2004 that an official
• 46:13
  Blizzard post has has addressed and acknowledged the existence
• 46:19
  of role-playing in the game. I had have interviewed, I
• 46:24
  interviewed a role player a few years ago on recruiter friend
• 46:26
  and that was one of the things they mentioned.
• 46:27
  They were like Blizzard knows we exist, makes changes
• 46:32
  specifically for us, like the not charting you if you're in a
• 46:38
  major city. I think it was there was some
• 46:40
  change they made so that it didn't break role players
• 46:42
  immersion. So but they never ever mention
• 46:45
  us. And this is like she actually
• 46:48
  says role-playing. It's something we're looking at.
• 46:50
  And they're talking about ways to connect people easier because
• 46:53
  ultimately it's a it's an MMORPG and you can play in solo if you
• 46:56
  want. If you're a demon souls or a
• 46:57
  Dark Souls lover and you want to get your hard mode content, you
• 47:00
  just want to go out there and farm bees, whatever it is this
• 47:03
  game is that it's hard an MMORPG.
• 47:05
  So finding ways to group like minded people together.
• 47:07
  I think it's good because especially today in the year of
• 47:11
  our Lord 2025, finding ways to to connect with people who share
• 47:16
  your values is so, so important and can make all the difference
• 47:20
  in the world. So I'm just really glad that
• 47:22
  they recognize and are taking ownership of of their place in
• 47:28
  like society and community and connecting people.
• 47:33
  Yeah, and I like that The way that they're doing it is not
• 47:37
  purely putting it on themselves. They are linking to external
• 47:41
  things. So like they already have in the
• 47:44
  EU, they have the community discords that are like Blizzard
• 47:48
  supported discords. And of course there was a bunch
• 47:50
  of controversy about that. But being able to be like, oh, I
• 47:54
  want to do Mythic Plus and join a group like the Oasis server or
• 48:00
  Dungeon Dojo or Wow Made Easy or whatever, whatever groups are
• 48:05
  out there that support that when you are doing whatever it is, is
• 48:09
  great. Being able to find ARP group and
• 48:12
  like jump into their discord through like a link in the
• 48:16
  community group or whatever would be fantastic.
• 48:22
  And I think that that is a huge thing, though the Wow secret
• 48:25
  finders are a massive group that clearly affects the way that
• 48:31
  they even developed the game. And this is this would be an
• 48:35
  easy way to have a more straightforward way to go into
• 48:39
  that. So I think acknowledging that
• 48:42
  we're in this year, 2025, as you say, and that these groups exist
• 48:47
  and that people aren't going to use the in game chat and forget
• 48:51
  it, just use your discord guys. Is, is just the way it should
• 48:56
  go. And I, I'm looking forward to
• 48:58
  that as well. Lex, do you have anything from
• 49:02
  this entire State of the Union? I don't have anything specific,
• 49:06
  but can I just say I love the way that Holly Longdale writes
• 49:09
  and the way that she like this. Just the entire thing just feels
• 49:12
  very kind and adventurous and exciting.
• 49:18
  Every time I read something by Holly Longdale, I'm immediately
• 49:21
  calmed and also excited again. So I I'm excited about 2025.
• 49:29
  Lex would just like to bring specific focus to her massive
• 49:32
  crush on. The Holy I want to bring
• 49:37
  specific focus to my massive crush on Holly Longdale's
• 49:40
  jacket. It was such an amazing jacket.
• 49:43
  I want it. But there is one other thing
• 49:47
  that she did mention in this, which got an article all its
• 49:51
  own. And that of course, is housing.
• 49:54
  And later that same day, today as all of this recording, we got
• 50:00
  building in Azeroth, a first look at housing.
• 50:04
  And so this is them finally pulling back the curtains a
• 50:08
  little bit. We're getting a sneak peek into
• 50:10
  housing and they talk about a lot of what they're doing in
• 50:16
  this early stages of design. So they talk about their design
• 50:21
  pillars, their guiding tenants that they want for housing.
• 50:29
  And so going right back to what you were just saying, Sean, one
• 50:33
  of the biggest things, it's the second bullet, but I really want
• 50:36
  to highlight this one, is that housing is supposed to be deeply
• 50:40
  social, where World of Warcraft is more fun with other players,
• 50:45
  and housing should be no different.
• 50:47
  While players can enjoy housing purely on their own, it's
• 50:51
  systems are designed at a fundamental level to encourage
• 50:55
  interacting, playing, and progressing with friends,
• 50:57
  neighbors, guilds, and the wider community in a meaningful way.
• 51:01
  And I think that is really good because I mentioned it's first
• 51:05
  because everybody's fear with Wow housing goes directly to
• 51:08
  Garrison's, which was the epitome of isolation, and I'm
• 51:11
  glad that this is a pillar of what they're doing.
• 51:16
  The first one that I skipped over to get to that point is, of
• 51:19
  course, Boundless self-expression.
• 51:23
  And their highest priority is to allow players to build a house
• 51:28
  that shows off their own personal tastes for their war
• 51:31
  bands acts as desired, as a desired backdrop for
• 51:35
  role-playing or just to allow players to create something in a
• 51:38
  flight of fancy. And then there's a lot more that
• 51:41
  go that goes into it. But like I do want to mention a
• 51:45
  highlight that it's war banned on that housing.
• 51:48
  And as they go through it, there's a lot of talk of your
• 51:52
  war band being able to access a house, and I'm questioning about
• 52:01
  that. But there's a third pillar, of
• 52:03
  course, before we go too deep into this, they talk about it
• 52:07
  being a long lasting journey, and then they say that housing
• 52:12
  is being built as an Evergreen addition to the game, with its
• 52:15
  own road map reaching across multiple patches and into future
• 52:19
  expansions. Housing isn't something that
• 52:21
  players should expect to finish, but instead continuously, sorry,
• 52:26
  continually look forward to the next housing release, be it new
• 52:30
  content or systems. This is a long term commitment
• 52:34
  for them as developers and offers players rewards all along
• 52:38
  the way. So I think those are great
• 52:42
  pillars. They do make a note that those
• 52:44
  pillars, while they're like vague and sort of like the
• 52:47
  central things are not everything that is in for
• 52:51
  housing, which is which is phenomenal details of this.
• 53:00
  They first talk about the zones that we're going to initially,
• 53:04
  and I say initially have housing being restricted to one Horde
• 53:09
  zone and one Alliance zone. And I had a quick sad trombone
• 53:16
  for this because my immediate fear, which was reinforced by
• 53:21
  the first image that they have below the title was Ord have orc
• 53:27
  decor, Alliance have human decor and not being able to really
• 53:37
  change it as fundamentally as I would like.
• 53:41
  But they they seem to be going against that with the boundless
• 53:45
  self-expression. The fact that like that is a
• 53:48
  major, major thing. So I don't know, I'm, I'm kind
• 53:52
  of conflicted. What?
• 53:53
  What do you guys mean? They specifically say in the
• 53:56
  post that even though you're Alliance character, you're
• 54:01
  you're you're a human warrior can't buy a home in Duratar.
• 54:05
  You can make a Horde character who can.
• 54:07
  And your human character can come and go as they please from
• 54:10
  your Horde home. And any unlocks that you unlock
• 54:14
  on your Horde character can be used in an Alliance home.
• 54:17
  And any unlocks in an Alliance character can be used in a in a
• 54:20
  Horde home. So I mean, maybe the actual
• 54:23
  physical structure itself would be the only thing that will be
• 54:25
  locked in. But then the interior you can
• 54:29
  decorate as you see fit. They do call out, they say they
• 54:33
  they talked about zones. And I imagine this was something
• 54:35
  the team struggled with. And that the reason they said
• 54:37
  they settled on just the two zones is that they would rather
• 54:40
  do an amazing job with two zones than a passable job with many
• 54:45
  zones. And they also don't want to lose
• 54:47
  the deeply social, the second pillar.
• 54:50
  They want people to be able to see each other.
• 54:52
  So that's why I think we had to expect it, right?
• 54:57
  Yeah, you have to start somewhere, right?
• 54:59
  Like they didn't make it sound like this is their plan forever.
• 55:02
  And I mean, they very specifically said they want us
• 55:04
  to keep expanding and keep getting more interesting and
• 55:05
  having new releases. And I cannot imagine that if
• 55:08
  this is popular, new zone won't be one of the things that they
• 55:10
  do pretty quickly. But I think if you, you know, if
• 55:13
  you have to make a brand new system from scratch and you're
• 55:15
  trying to figure out what to do and how to design it, doing the
• 55:17
  very classic human versus orcs thing like the World of Warcraft
• 55:21
  has gone to since before it was even World of Warcraft.
• 55:24
  I get it. I get why they're starting
• 55:25
  there. And I'm not overly I I also
• 55:28
  don't love either of those two aesthetics.
• 55:29
  So I'm not like jumping for joy over that.
• 55:32
  But I think I'm pretty confident that we will expand out of that.
• 55:38
  Yeah, but it's just, it's, I get it, They're iconic to those two
• 55:43
  factions. They are very much ingrained in
• 55:48
  that. But when I look at the title
• 55:51
  picture, which is the what I would think is their concept art
• 55:55
  for the Alliance homestead, When I look further down at the last
• 56:00
  image that's in there, which looks like their Horde
• 56:04
  homestead, those are orc cuts. Those are human human buildings.
• 56:10
  I don't see the outside of one of those looking like a torn or
• 56:16
  goblin or anything outside of Night Elf.
• 56:22
  Not not even like even if it was like restricted to the horde
• 56:26
  factions, like what if I did what?
• 56:29
  What if I'm a night born and I just want to set up a night born
• 56:33
  structure in there? Like I think the outside of the
• 56:36
  house should be a something that is deeply customizable that
• 56:41
  somebody walks past their past Shawn's house and they're like,
• 56:45
  my goodness, look at the banners he has hanging from from like
• 56:50
  the highest reaches of his home. And then you go inside and it's
• 56:55
  unique to Sean. I think that customization needs
• 56:59
  to be on the outside of the house as well as the inside of
• 57:02
  the house, because one of the things that they talked about is
• 57:05
  that they are having neighborhoods in the in this.
• 57:09
  Each of these places that you go are actually going to be 50 plot
• 57:16
  instances that will either be public or private.
• 57:20
  The public ones are going to be managed by the server.
• 57:23
  So as the 50 get filled up, the next one will be spun up and
• 57:26
  another 50 will go in. You'll have your neighbors.
• 57:29
  They'll be persistent. So if Lex and I are in the same
• 57:32
  neighborhood, Lex and I are going to run into each other
• 57:35
  until Lex realizes I'm in the same neighborhood and moves out.
• 57:38
  Or just quit, say, game altogether, right?
• 57:41
  But at least then we can run into each other.
• 57:44
  And that to me would mean that like as I'm going through a
• 57:48
  neighborhood, unless I'm going to break into somebody's house,
• 57:51
  which I don't think they should allow, I should be able to see
• 57:54
  their customization, their expression on the exterior of
• 57:56
  the house as well as the interior of the house.
• 58:00
  Yeah. Do you want to talk about
• 58:01
  neighborhood? Sorry, Sean can say.
• 58:02
  No go. I was going to say the same
• 58:04
  thing but I agreed with them. It's at first I was like, I
• 58:07
  understand why they're doing it, but now I'm really like, God
• 58:09
  damn it, I want to have a night out of the house so.
• 58:11
  I'm just going to say I really, and I could be wrong, but I do
• 58:16
  not think that they're like, that's not going to happen.
• 58:19
  I think based on what they're saying, I am 99.99% sure that
• 58:24
  they also want you to be able to customize that they also want
• 58:27
  the outside to be customizable. They have plans for this.
• 58:30
  They either A have to prioritize right now and determine what
• 58:36
  they're going to work on and they were like inside of what
• 58:38
  we're going to start with because that's what people are
• 58:39
  most excited about, or B just didn't think to include this in
• 58:42
  the concept art, right? Like this is very initial baby's
• 58:45
  first concept art. It's not like they said you
• 58:47
  can't customize the outside of their house.
• 58:49
  And so there's another option, which is just the artists while
• 58:52
  working on this, we're overwhelmed and we're told draw
• 58:55
  a horde neighborhood and they were like, and to be fair, I
• 58:58
  want to be really clear for one of the artists, it's a beautiful
• 59:00
  drawing. I'm not saying that this looks
• 59:01
  like you're overwhelmed when but wex.
• 59:05
  Thinks she can do better than the artist confirmed.
• 59:07
  No, God, no. Please no.
• 59:11
  We'll, we'll, we'll be getting Lex's concept art for the next
• 59:15
  episode. You know what that I would love
• 59:17
  to see Lex's concept art I. Just some trying I you when I
• 59:21
  was a role player, I drew badly, but I drew no.
• 59:24
  No, I want, I want the Lex concept art.
• 59:27
  We'll we'll throw it up in a Patreon or something.
• 59:29
  We'll do like, we'll do Lex's house.
• 59:32
  We'll do, we'll do Sean's house just done up.
• 59:35
  Like let's do that. That would be hilarious.
• 59:37
  I'd love it. But like, yeah, you look at the
• 59:39
  concept art that they've got here and it is beautiful.
• 59:42
  I really think that that Stormwind in the background with
• 59:45
  the housing looks amazing. I think that the, the streams
• 59:51
  that's running through Doritar and, and all of this that's here
• 59:55
  looks great. And I genuinely like just
• 1:00:00
  absolutely glomped on to when they said not just Doritar, but
• 1:00:05
  and Zara being part of the theming for, for the horde
• 1:00:11
  thing. I'm like, OK, great.
• 1:00:13
  It's not all going to be just deserted, barren and lifeless.
• 1:00:17
  And I think that could be. Built upon, if you had like just
• 1:00:23
  the different structures on there, I would say most likely
• 1:00:27
  like you, like you've said, Lex, it is a matter of being able to
• 1:00:31
  provide something. And even if the concept art, I
• 1:00:37
  don't think the concept art was rushed.
• 1:00:38
  I think that there's probably a lot of concept art of different
• 1:00:41
  places. And he said, we're going to move
• 1:00:43
  forward with these two. And so that's the concept art is
• 1:00:47
  like focused on, hey, this is the Durator setup, this is the
• 1:00:51
  Stormwind setup. And they probably have stuff
• 1:00:53
  that's like don't show them this yet.
• 1:00:55
  When we get to it, then we could start showing them.
• 1:00:58
  Here's the Iron Forge setup, and here's the Lorderon setup and.
• 1:01:01
  And here's the Zankamar setup Right Blizzard, Right Blizzard.
• 1:01:04
  Right Blizzard. Zankamar setup Blizzard.
• 1:01:06
  Right, Blizzard. Setup was just a tent.
• 1:01:10
  I I honestly think that would be great if you could do a Voltaire
• 1:01:14
  setup where it is just your, your tent that you had from like
• 1:01:19
  your racial setup there with like a little bit of more
• 1:01:21
  permanent structure to decide too.
• 1:01:23
  That would be great. Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  We talk about how terrifying this Griffin is in the Stormwind
• 1:01:28
  concept there. It's so huge and it's tucked
• 1:01:31
  into this tiny little garage, overhead garage.
• 1:01:34
  She's like, what is happening to that?
• 1:01:36
  Wait, how? What size do you think a Griffin
• 1:01:38
  is to carry to carry? Like a person like, like look at
• 1:01:43
  the person who's in the door frame.
• 1:01:47
  I'm looking that Griffin does look like he could get him in
• 1:01:51
  two bites. Like like that poor do.
• 1:01:53
  You guys have the. Person who's like walking
• 1:01:55
  forward, I don't know because like he see the wolf behind just
• 1:01:58
  on the far edge Anyways, that's a small that's a small thing
• 1:02:01
  You're like this is all concept art.
• 1:02:03
  Obviously some things are there I.
• 1:02:05
  Love it. Even if the attaching on the
• 1:02:07
  roof is customizable so I could have like red and I don't have
• 1:02:10
  to do the storm blue or stuff see.
• 1:02:12
  What's going to? Happen.
• 1:02:13
  Don't worry. It's coming.
• 1:02:14
  It's coming. Yeah, this isn't.
• 1:02:16
  Can we talk about the giant Battle.net store elephant in the
• 1:02:22
  room? He.
• 1:02:23
  Did talk about that? You want to talk about that?
• 1:02:26
  OK, yeah, let's talk about. It I would like to just come out
• 1:02:28
  and say Blizzard, I'm absolutely for this.
• 1:02:31
  So they haven't, They have said that they want the stuff to be
• 1:02:35
  collectible, to be accessible in game.
• 1:02:36
  But there will be some things you can buy in the shop, but the
• 1:02:39
  intent is not for the main or the best things to be in the
• 1:02:42
  shop. It's just there will be some
• 1:02:43
  things in the shop they're very transparent about.
• 1:02:45
  They're very apparent about it. And I say put it all in the shop
• 1:02:48
  and he'd buy all of it. Sean wants to fight with you.
• 1:02:54
  Actually, no, I don't know how I feel about that.
• 1:02:56
  I mean exactly. Can you put night elf housing on
• 1:02:58
  the shop only? OK, here's the deal.
• 1:03:02
  Wants to fight with me. Sean wants all the hate and Sean
• 1:03:06
  wants to like just have people low Jack us and come for us.
• 1:03:11
  But I think that if they keep it in a similar manner to what they
• 1:03:15
  are doing with the shop right now, which I think has become
• 1:03:19
  nicer than it used to be, because what they are doing
• 1:03:22
  right now is that things will get a run on the shop.
• 1:03:26
  They will then come out later on the traders post.
• 1:03:29
  And I think that if customization, some
• 1:03:32
  customizations, not all customizations show up on the
• 1:03:35
  shop and come out later on the traders post, that's great.
• 1:03:40
  Like, hey, you can get it early if you want to spend the money
• 1:03:43
  or you can wait get it on the traders post.
• 1:03:45
  If you're if you're conserving your tenders or you have to get
• 1:03:49
  everything, go ahead, pick up, pick up a bundle of two of two
• 1:03:55
  mounts that look exactly the same as the two mounts that are
• 1:03:58
  in the game, but but different color tints with your 600
• 1:04:02
  tenders so you can get just a little bit more stuff.
• 1:04:05
  If you want to spend your money like that, more power to you.
• 1:04:08
  If you don't want to spend your money like that, more power to
• 1:04:11
  you. If you want to complain that
• 1:04:13
  other people have the ability to spend their money like that,
• 1:04:16
  don't worry, you're never going to be on the guest on this show
• 1:04:18
  so we don't have to listen to you.
• 1:04:20
  I genuinely think that the options that they throw out
• 1:04:25
  there, they've been quite good about it.
• 1:04:30
  In some cases they've even said, hey, it's going to be back
• 1:04:32
  within X amount of days or months.
• 1:04:36
  That's that's completely transparent.
• 1:04:40
  I have no issues with the store as it stands being including
• 1:04:46
  housing stuff as long as it is not something so fundamental as
• 1:04:51
  you could do a night off building now and wait six months
• 1:04:55
  and then the rest of you plebes can get it.
• 1:04:57
  The poors can come get their night out housing.
• 1:05:00
  That is a line too far Sean, and we will send a hate mail your
• 1:05:04
  way. Yeah, I think that the shop
• 1:05:07
  should be a couple fun, cutesy little things that are, you
• 1:05:11
  know, maybe exciting but not world endingly exciting.
• 1:05:17
  And most of it should be in the game that I pay every month to
• 1:05:22
  play. OK.
• 1:05:27
  And I I think that yeah, like sure, open up the store for
• 1:05:30
  that. If they want to put in campsites
• 1:05:32
  into the store, because that's coming in the next batch, right?
• 1:05:35
  And then later on it comes into the traders post.
• 1:05:38
  So be it. You know what, it doesn't even
• 1:05:39
  matter if it comes to the traders post for the camping
• 1:05:41
  sites, but like, like, I think that's all good.
• 1:05:47
  I think that one of the the scariest parts of this are the
• 1:05:50
  private neighborhoods. I am just worried about like
• 1:05:55
  quasi HOA community, quasi elitist communities that's that
• 1:05:59
  are going to pop up from this. It's, it's not like a real HOA
• 1:06:04
  where you're stuck because you spent $300,000 in your house.
• 1:06:07
  Just leave and go to yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to touch
• 1:06:10
  your hand. While I say this as somebody who
• 1:06:12
  has role played, There are going to be groups that exist entirely
• 1:06:17
  to be pretentious. Like, yeah, there's going to be
• 1:06:19
  neighborhoods that are only there to suck.
• 1:06:21
  Like, don't worry about it. They all.
• 1:06:23
  There are already groups that exist exclusively to be annoying
• 1:06:26
  to other people, respectfully. Are you still talking about the
• 1:06:31
  game? OK, that's true.
• 1:06:33
  That's true. Even even outside of the world,
• 1:06:35
  there are there are some people, if you allow people to make
• 1:06:39
  communities, some of those communities are gonna suck.
• 1:06:42
  I'm so excited about neighborhoods.
• 1:06:44
  You guys, I think they're gonna be so cute.
• 1:06:46
  And I think, you know, presumably the guilds are gonna,
• 1:06:48
  we're gonna make a little Guild neighborhoods.
• 1:06:51
  But like, Oh my God, can you guys imagine like the
• 1:06:53
  neighborhoods have like little like neighborhood events and you
• 1:06:55
  make you join your like little neighborhood discord.
• 1:06:57
  You're like, oh, we're having a little neighborhood cooker.
• 1:06:59
  There's still a little role player in me, I think.
• 1:07:03
  Here's my question. I have two questions.
• 1:07:06
  Question one I'm in a private neighborhood for my Guild.
• 1:07:11
  Can I invite my friends into our neighborhood to hang out and
• 1:07:17
  does that then mean I'm forced to see my guildies friends if I
• 1:07:22
  don't like them in that neighborhood?
• 1:07:24
  And second question, am I limited to one neighborhood?
• 1:07:28
  I guess you would presume that you would be.
• 1:07:30
  So now I have to choose, do I join my guilds neighborhood or
• 1:07:34
  do I join my for Azeroth neighborhood where we have a 25%
• 1:07:38
  tariff on trade with all other neighborhoods?
• 1:07:41
  So wait, I actually am not clear.
• 1:07:46
  I think it was a joke that happened while I was reading
• 1:07:48
  this very excitedly. So if there was a very funny, I
• 1:07:53
  I'm actually not clear that you can't own multiple houses
• 1:07:59
  because they say, first of all, they say your houses are also
• 1:08:03
  shared amongst your war band, which could mean just like, you
• 1:08:05
  know, the houses that multiple people own or your multiple
• 1:08:08
  houses, you'll be able you, you'll be able to live in or
• 1:08:12
  visit. Yeah, the you will be able to
• 1:08:15
  live in or visit your friends or guildmates houses, which makes
• 1:08:21
  me think like presumably it's not that you just choose to live
• 1:08:24
  in someone else's house. You can't get your own, and they
• 1:08:26
  also talk about how like your human character can't buy a
• 1:08:30
  house in the horde zone but your trolled character can in the
• 1:08:34
  same war band can. Basically, I don't know, I
• 1:08:37
  don't. I want to be clear in case you
• 1:08:38
  think that any of these quotes are me saying this definitively
• 1:08:40
  says you can buy multiple houses.
• 1:08:42
  I don't think it's clear yet. I don't think we are aware.
• 1:08:45
  Going to have neighborhoods where my alliance, my human
• 1:08:50
  character is walking to my home in my public neighborhood in
• 1:08:54
  Duratar and he gets discriminated against for being
• 1:08:57
  human. There's one of and then the HOA
• 1:09:02
  knocks, knocks on your doors. So it's like we're going to have
• 1:09:04
  to we're going to have to ask you to take down that night born
• 1:09:09
  banner or get out of our neighborhood.
• 1:09:11
  I'm telling you, private neighborhoods scare me because
• 1:09:14
  of what people might. I'm worried about public, a
• 1:09:16
  private neighborhood. I can just leave.
• 1:09:18
  I would only be in a private neighborhood if I chose to join
• 1:09:20
  that group of people. But if I'm in a public
• 1:09:22
  neighborhood with 50 other strangers and 49 of them all
• 1:09:27
  play orcs and they're like, hey, you can't be here.
• 1:09:30
  What do I do? I think you.
• 1:09:32
  Can leave. I think you can I'm.
• 1:09:33
  I I'm. So excited.
• 1:09:35
  Because they just said that because it says in there that
• 1:09:38
  you have neighbors unless you move, which means that you have.
• 1:09:41
  The ability to move, OK. Right.
• 1:09:43
  And also. I'm putting, I'm putting up my
• 1:09:47
  make Azeroth great again, Simon. You can just deal with it,
• 1:09:50
  trolls. Who's trolling who?
• 1:09:54
  You know, I feel like it's me, yeah.
• 1:09:57
  What's the? Thread here.
• 1:09:58
  OK, like, there's a lot in here. There's a lot of possibilities.
• 1:10:02
  This is just like the first look at it.
• 1:10:05
  I mean, I'm hoping for more. I dislike that one motif is the
• 1:10:10
  I don't even know what it's what it is tribal, rustic or
• 1:10:15
  something. The ugly one.
• 1:10:16
  Do you and it ugly color Orgamar?
• 1:10:18
  Is ugly. Give me the ugly.
• 1:10:19
  Do you mean the ugly? The ugly one, which is the
• 1:10:21
  Orgamar one? Because Orgamar is an ugly city.
• 1:10:24
  Is that the one you mean? Is that what you mean, Manny?
• 1:10:26
  Is that what you're trying to say right now?
• 1:10:28
  It shares a lot of letters with ugly.
• 1:10:31
  It is rugged and it is so ugly and did you want to know?
• 1:10:38
  Why Ugly Manny? And it is color-coded to be
• 1:10:41
  Horde. And then they have an A equally
• 1:10:48
  like simplistic and like completely like stereotypical
• 1:10:54
  setup, right? And it is color-coded to be
• 1:10:58
  Alliance, right? And I again, these are just
• 1:11:06
  setups. I'm hoping that the D that the
• 1:11:08
  decor can be, I can grab a shelf from this and a table from
• 1:11:14
  another one and that I can tint or diet so it all fits the room.
• 1:11:20
  I'm worried that it's going to be because you got it from this
• 1:11:23
  one. It has to be this blue.
• 1:11:25
  I don't think it tents and dies. I I I like maybe it's like the
• 1:11:28
  traders post and like it'll have multiple different colors all.
• 1:11:31
  That would be sick. I 'cause that is, I will say
• 1:11:33
  that is one of my biggest stresses with trans Mogs.
• 1:11:35
  Some of you guys are really good at them, but I find that 99% of
• 1:11:39
  the time I just end up using an entire set just because, like,
• 1:11:42
  the Blues don't match perfectly between two sets.
• 1:11:44
  And I'm like, well, that's a little ugly.
• 1:11:47
  Yeah. I'm with Manny, I think.
• 1:11:48
  And I actually, I will also say this is one thing that Final
• 1:11:52
  Fantasy does really well is that you can dye clothes.
• 1:11:54
  And I think, I think my dad does this more than I do.
• 1:11:56
  But like, you can do that sort of stuff.
• 1:11:59
  And I've always kind of thought, oh, wouldn't it be cool if I
• 1:12:02
  could customize the outfits in World of Warcraft more?
• 1:12:06
  So World Warcraft Fast F, baby. What about we experiment with
• 1:12:10
  that? What if we had fun?
• 1:12:11
  Little, little you know, everyone can play with it.
• 1:12:15
  I'm going to go one further because tinting stuff on the in
• 1:12:20
  the Warcraft engine I don't think is set up for it.
• 1:12:23
  So I would say Blizzard, if you are going to put in an item,
• 1:12:29
  make sure it has multiple tints and maybe have particular colors
• 1:12:35
  that you just stick to. So you don't have one that is
• 1:12:40
  sky blue and one that is turquoise blue and and not have
• 1:12:45
  an equal on the next one. Just get at least if you're
• 1:12:49
  going to start limited, stick to a couple of colors that are the
• 1:12:52
  2025 or at maybe at that point is the 2026 colors and then
• 1:12:56
  expand from there. I really do not need a color
• 1:13:00
  that's got Dalaran purple and the next one that's got Void
• 1:13:04
  Midnight purple, and I put them together and it's just like,
• 1:13:06
  yeah, what the hell was I doing? I agree with you.
• 1:13:08
  I do actually want to say I don't know that tinting is
• 1:13:10
  impossible in the World of Warcraft system because they
• 1:13:12
  feel like they've been experimenting with that a lot
• 1:13:14
  with the customizable mouth, right?
• 1:13:17
  Do you guys disagree with me? Am I misunderstanding what
• 1:13:18
  you're saying? Different different texture path
• 1:13:21
  that gets loaded in that is full on textures that are that are
• 1:13:24
  being switched on the same model that it's not tinting.
• 1:13:28
  Would you be open to that? Like if, if it's, you know, that
• 1:13:31
  sort of thing where like you can make your, you, you kind of have
• 1:13:33
  to pick to have your entire house go to one, like to
• 1:13:36
  different color schemes, but you can just like go in and be like,
• 1:13:40
  boop, this is the color scheme I'm picking.
• 1:13:43
  And these? Yeah, however they want.
• 1:13:44
  To do it again, we're not devs. However they want to skin that
• 1:13:48
  cat as long as things are not weirdly off color.
• 1:13:51
  And I get super annoyed by it because if I'm going to go into
• 1:13:54
  like Decor, right, I, I would want that to be a possibility.
• 1:14:00
  There are people who will spend an evening running through the
• 1:14:05
  same dungeon on LFR versus heroic to get gloves that and
• 1:14:09
  have the exact right tint to match their boots so that it
• 1:14:13
  works for them. And I, I'm glad that it works
• 1:14:15
  for them, but it needs to be a possibility because it would be
• 1:14:19
  so annoying to like put it together and be like, I guess I
• 1:14:23
  refund this. What the hell, Blizzard?
• 1:14:25
  Yeah, they do. So they've been really good.
• 1:14:27
  I think the traders post is a really good example of what
• 1:14:30
  you're describing Manny, because they have the hoods, the open
• 1:14:35
  face hoods with the cloaks, the scarves with the cloaks, the
• 1:14:39
  over the shoulder buckles or over the shoulder cloaks, then
• 1:14:43
  the over the shoulder cloaks with the buckles and then the
• 1:14:45
  prowler cloaks, which is the hood open face or with a mask
• 1:14:49
  and a cloak. And they all used like you
• 1:14:52
  mentioned how you know, give me one red, give me one blue.
• 1:14:55
  They they use that. So those are all inter inter
• 1:14:57
  match, inter mingle. They all follow the same pattern
• 1:15:02
  color. Matched.
• 1:15:03
  That was really tough. That was a bad word for me.
• 1:15:05
  I don't know what happened there.
• 1:15:06
  Interchangeable. Interchangeable.
• 1:15:08
  There it is. Thank you so much.
• 1:15:11
  Yeah. So I would like that as well.
• 1:15:13
  I also think Lex is on to something.
• 1:15:17
  You got to let me paint my walls, right?
• 1:15:20
  Am I? Well, my choice is just.
• 1:15:22
  But if it's a horse. Shack.
• 1:15:23
  They wouldn't have wallpaper. No, they won't.
• 1:15:27
  They'll just have dyed or stained the rugs they've used
• 1:15:31
  for the wall anyway. I'm excited.
• 1:15:34
  It's, listen, I can't believe I'm saying this.
• 1:15:37
  I'm excited for housing. The possibilities are great.
• 1:15:41
  I'm really looking forward to it.
• 1:15:43
  There's one last thing I think we should mention before we
• 1:15:45
  probably wrap up, and that is Blizzard gave some clarification
• 1:15:51
  on holiday mounts and reward drops and I guess was
• 1:15:55
  desperately needed. I'm not a mount collector, so I
• 1:15:57
  don't know, but all you mount collectors out there, mounties
• 1:15:59
  as we call them, I want you to get some clarification here.
• 1:16:03
  So here's how it works. I'm going to break it down for
• 1:16:06
  you for legacy drops. So this is your X-45
• 1:16:08
  Heartbreaker. Your first attempt of the day on
• 1:16:11
  your account has an increased drop chance.
• 1:16:15
  Every other attempt on the day after that point has a minuscule
• 1:16:20
  drop chance. So not 0, just very small for
• 1:16:25
  new mounts. Like the love which is sweeper
• 1:16:28
  which is also falling from the chemical Co during the love is
• 1:16:31
  in the air has a once a day attempt to drop.
• 1:16:35
  So on your first kill of chemical Co a day, oh sorry,
• 1:16:38
  your once attempt today and then that increases your drop chance
• 1:16:42
  with each kill after until it drops.
• 1:16:44
  It doesn't say whether that carries through to next year.
• 1:16:48
  That would be some clarification we could use.
• 1:16:51
  It also doesn't determine where they make the break point
• 1:16:54
  between legacy and and new. So if I were going for like
• 1:16:58
  let's say the manuscript that drops off of some of these
• 1:17:03
  things for customization, is that now considered legacy
• 1:17:06
  because we're on to a new expansion?
• 1:17:07
  Or do I have to wait 2 expansions for where legacy loot
• 1:17:10
  would activate this? This initial change with the
• 1:17:15
  once a day, then you get increased chance started in
• 1:17:19
  Dragonflight. I would use Dragonflight as your
• 1:17:22
  cut off. I I assume that's what that
• 1:17:24
  means because that's when they initially made that change.
• 1:17:27
  So that would have to be it couldn't possibly have been
• 1:17:29
  before that change came in and that change came in last year
• 1:17:33
  for love is in the air. So I guess potentially the
• 1:17:36
  manuscripts are legacy. Could you?
• 1:17:39
  Use clarification. Yeah, yeah, it's weird.
• 1:17:42
  Just give us a list. I'm sure people are going to be
• 1:17:46
  testing this and checking the drop, the drops that are being
• 1:17:50
  reported and then determining what they are based on that.
• 1:17:53
  But, you know, you can skip a step and just tell us.
• 1:17:59
  With that said, yeah, you know, there's something to be said
• 1:18:05
  about that. But with that said, we're going
• 1:18:08
  to call an episode here. I really did love all the
• 1:18:10
  discussion we've had and obviously there's a lot going on
• 1:18:14
  in the future of World of Warcraft.
• 1:18:15
  Some point I will tell you why I'm not so happy about 11.1
• 1:18:19
  right now, but that will have to wait for a future episode.
• 1:18:23
  Until next time guys, may all your hits be quits.