Latest / NO FILTER / Joe Rogan Experience _2530 - Timothy Alberino

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Joe Rogan Experience _2530 - Timothy Alberino · NO FILTER

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The joe rogan experience train.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: By day joe rogan podcast by night all day.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: Tim is fine what's.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Up tim what's going on what's up joe nice to
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: meet you great to be with you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Uh i've seen a lot of your content online but
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the one that got me the most was absolutely the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: giant in afghanistan the kandahar giant story and i don't
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: know if you know but um I had Devin LaRotte
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: on the podcast, The Arm Wrestler, and he told a
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: story about how when he was in the Canadian military,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: he was deployed in Afghanistan. And one of the guys
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: that he was working with over there had to have
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: a conversation with a warlord, with a local warlord. And
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: he said this guy was eight feet tall. He said
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: this guy was fucking huge and not just tall but wide.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: He said it was the biggest man he's ever seen
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: in his life.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Well– I've heard a lot of things about giants in Afghanistan.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: And I find that, you know, I talk about a
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: lot of different topics. I talk about a lot of
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: UFO stuff. And I say some things that I know
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: could get me in trouble. But nothing makes me more
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: nervous than talking about giants, specifically the Kandahar giant and
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: the giants in Kandahar in general.
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Mainly because when I talk to people who know things,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: they're very, very nervous when we get to this topic.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: And some of them will just flat out will not
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: talk about giants in general, but specifically giants in Afghanistan.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: And some of these guys are high level guys that
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: worked at the Pentagon. And they'll talk rather freely with
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: me about UFOs. But as soon as we broach this topic,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: It's like, they literally will warn me, be careful with
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: this topic.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: What? What do you make of that?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that the topic of giants is intermeshed
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: with the occult. That's my personal theory, because nothing else
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: makes sense. Who cares if there's eight-foot-tall guys, right? Big deal.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Well, there's eight-foot-tall humans, right? We were just talking about
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: that young kid that's a basketball player that's seven-foot-nine, right? Yeah.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: So there's actual giants that are in public.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: They, like, play for the NBA.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: They're out there. You can meet them.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: But when I say giants, I'm talking about 9 to
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: 12 feet tall.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: That's 8 to 12 feet tall. I would classify an
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: 8-foot-tall person as a giant as well, as long as
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: they don't have gigantism.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: That's a completely different thing.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Gigantism is a disability.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: This Kandahar giant story is very crazy because what's interesting
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: about it is the people that I've talked to that
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: have been in Afghanistan, that were deployed in Afghanistan, not
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: just Devin, but other people, they don't dismiss it. They say,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: we've heard some weird shit about that place. And the
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: thing that they always say is you got to realize
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: like Afghanistan is an old country. It's old and it's
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: very remote. Like most of it is very mountainous. It's
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: controlled by warlords. And, you know, look, there's these– what
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: are those? Are they Greek or Roman, those structures that
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: are there that date– they look like Greek temples that
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: date back to Alexander the Great. And archaeologists can't study them.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: They can't go there because it's too dangerous.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: It's one of the most remote places on the planet
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: specifically because it's so dangerous. You can't just go strolling
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: around Afghanistan. Right. It probably would be easier to go
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: to Antarctica than Afghanistan. That's kind of hilarious. So the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: story of the Kandahar giant.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's tell the story.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: This story has grown into a mythology over the years.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Years ago, I was working with a gentleman named Steve Quayle,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: and we started a production company called Gen 6 Productions.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: And we were making documentary films mainly about giants, mainly
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: on the topic of giants.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Giants as like referred to in the Bible, in ancient history,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: the Smithsonian giants.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: That's right. Biblical and historical accounts of giants. So I
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: was traveling around the world investigating giants. And Steve is
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: known for his investigations into giants. And he got a
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: phone call from an elderly woman who told him, you
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: need to talk to my son. My son has a
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: story he needs to tell you. And she had to
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: convince her son to talk to Steve. And ultimately he did.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: And he was active duty. He was a C-130 pilot,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: active duty. He actually went on coast to coast with Steve.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: They went on coast to coast together and he related
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: his story, I believe, with George Norrie, him, Steve and George.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: And then later on, we flew him into Bozeman, Montana
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: to put him in our documentary film that we were making.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: And he did not, he wanted to be filmed in silhouette.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: He did not want his face out there, even though
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: he knew that they're going to be able to mark
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: him just by his voice. So he flies into Bozeman.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: We meet with him. He shows us his credentials. He
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: was active duty C-130. And then he told us the
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: following story, among many other things that he told us.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: He said back in 2005, he was deployed in Afghanistan
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: and Iraq running missions as a C-130 cargo pilot. And
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: oftentimes they would have him fly into Bagram Airfield. And
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: these were routine missions. And so on one of these missions,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: he's flying into Bagram. But this time when he landed,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: he was met, as soon as he deplaned, he was
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: met on the tarmac by some individuals that he describes
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: as the babysitters. He calls them the babysitters. He thinks
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: they were either Army intelligence or Air Force intelligence guys.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: They didn't tell him. But this was different because when
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: he disembarked, they told him no photos, no No mention
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: of this ever. This never happened. So he knew that
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: whatever was about to happen was top secret. And he
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: had flown classified missions before, usually retrieving Taliban guys, what
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: he described as high valued assets. But this was different
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: because there were intelligence guys on the tarmac waiting for something.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: And it turns out what they were waiting for was
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: the cargo that was being delivered on a forklift. to
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: the C-130. And the pilot says that the first thing
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: that struck him as this cargo was moving toward him
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: and his crew was the odor. He said it smelled
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: like this, like musk, BO and death. And it was
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: extremely pungent. And when the cargo arrived, it was on
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: an air cargo pallet, which is seven by nine. And
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: there was a, he could see that there was a
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: person on the pallet in the fetal position. And this
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: individual was so large that his hands and his feet
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: and part of his head were hanging off the pallet.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: And he and his loadmaster and there were some Marines
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: who accompanied the pallet, who accompanied this cargo, they were
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: actually putting their feet up to this guy's feet, this
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: dead giant's feet. and seeing how small their feet were
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: compared to his. Now, the giant had red hair. He
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: had six fingers on each hand, six toes on each foot.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: His feet were wrapped in like a crude canvas foot wrapping.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: And he was solid as a rock. Again, most of
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: his body was covered by a tarp, but the pilot
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and the guys around him were hitting him with their fists.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: And he came up to about their midsection, laying in
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: the fetal position, And the pilot told me he was
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: solid as a rock, this guy. And he asked the Marines,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: what happened? Where did this guy come from? And they
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: told him that they had heard that there was a
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: team that was out in Afghanistan that was looking for
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Taliban or something. And they came upon a cave because
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: there was a nearby village and the villagers were were
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: bringing food and other artifacts to the mouth of this cave.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: And so they thought that they're aiding and abetting the Taliban.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: So they went into the cave. And rather than encountering
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the Taliban, what they found was this enormous humanoid who
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: killed them all. And then, according to these soldiers, they
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: deployed another team to go look for that team. And
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: when they found the cave, they found the traces of
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: that other team. They were ready. They were prepared. And
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: they were able to kill the giant. In fact, the
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: soldiers told the pilot that the giant was eating on
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: members of the team who he had killed previously. But
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: these new guys, they took him down and then they
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: had a transport helicopter come in and airlift him to Bagram.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Did you ever try to find records of who was
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: there and casualties that were reported, deaths that were reported?
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: It's very difficult. The Pentagon actually released a statement some
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: years ago, which is bizarre to me. You know, basically
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: saying and paraphrasing, the Kandahar giant incident never happened. There
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: was never a giant that was killed in Afghanistan.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: The Pentagon?
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a recent. It was like a spokesman
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: from the Pentagon or something or a release from the Pentagon.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Is this available online?
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: They actually felt the need to debunk this.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious. Now that that gets me sketchy.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I believe the pilot because he was a very
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: credible guy. He didn't want his name out there. He
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: didn't want fame or notoriety. He was very nervous. He
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: thought there's a good chance that they're going to recognize
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: me by my voice. He was on Coast to Coast AM.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: And then he's on in our documentary. There's a good
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: chance I'm going to get recognized and there's going to
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: be some reprisal. He was nervous. Now, they weighed the
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: giant before they loaded him on the C-130 because they
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: have to load everything that goes under the C-130. The
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: loadmaster weighed him. He weighed 1,100 pounds. And they estimated
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: his height at 10 to 12 feet tall. And So
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: they loaded him onto the C-130 and then they flew
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: him to Qatar. And then they unloaded the cargo in Qatar.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: And our pilot told me he heard through the grapevine
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: that the body ended up at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: He said, I don't know. That's just what I heard.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: So this is a firsthand account from the C-130 pilot
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: who flew the body himself from Bagram Airfield to Qatar.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Why does all the weird shit go to Wright-Patterson?
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: That's a good question.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Because that's where the weird shit goes.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Wright-Patterson used to have the Blue Room. I don't know
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: if they still have it, but they used to have
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: a room there called the Blue Room where they had
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: all of the alien artifacts that had been recovered and
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: that they were studying. And it was completely off-limits to
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: anybody except for people who had access, the very few
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: who had access. But the Kandahar giant, you know, That story,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: a colleague of mine, Elie Marsouli, he had another guy
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: come to him, a different guy. We interviewed the pilot,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Steve and I. Elie had another guy come to him
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: that was, I can't remember the details. He was a
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: special forces guy. He had firsthand knowledge of the event
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: as well. And we're not sure if it's the same
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: one or a different one, if there was just one
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: incident with the giants or if there were multiple incidents. Now,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: years later, this would be just a couple of years
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: ago because we published that film recently. I think back
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: in 2016. But just a couple of years ago, and
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: I do have to be very careful here, I ran
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: into a gentleman who was very high up, let's say,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: in the operations happening out there during the Iraq War
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: and in Afghanistan. And this individual had flown a lot
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: of missions. And he was a commander. And I asked him,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: we were having a casual conversation, and he starts to
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: walk away. And I said, hey, you were in flying
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: missions in Afghanistan. I said, have you ever heard about
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: the Kandahar giant? And his wife was standing next to me,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: and he's sort of walking away. He turns around. The
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: blood rushes out of his face, and he literally goes
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: like this to me. Points to his phone. And his
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: wife whispers, he can't talk about that. So later on
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I was able to– we agreed to meet later on
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: in a very controlled environment. And he related a story
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: to me that's the most wild story I've ever heard
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: in my life. And I'm sorry I can't relate it.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I love this guy. I want to protect him. But
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: it's not the giant of Kandahar. It's the giants of Kandahar.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: There's more than one. The military has known about it.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: And aside from him, I talked to other soldiers who've
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: also had knowledge of the specific incident that I cited earlier,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: but then also in general, the giants in Afghanistan. And
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I have a friend of mine who I met some
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: years ago. Actually, I was with Lou Elizondo at Loose
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Bar in Wyoming. And there was a friend. a friend
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: of Lou's who's now a friend of mine there. And
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: we were talking about the Kandahar giant. I was just
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: telling him the story I told you and he just
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: couldn't believe it. He thought this is, this is nuts.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: This is crazy. And I said, okay, do something for me.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Next time you're talking to somebody in government or in
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: the military who you think maybe might know something about this,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: bring it up, see what happens. So he called me
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: one day and he said, Tim, you're not going to
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: believe it. He said, I was talking to, I have
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: to be very careful here too, He said, I was
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: talking to a certain individual who works for a senator.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: He's a he's a staffer. I think I believe he's
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: one of the chief of staff for the senator or
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: at the very least an advisor. And he's got a
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: military background, special forces. And he said, I was sitting there.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: We're really good friends. So we're having a casual conversation,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: as we always do. And just in the midst of
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: this conversation, I said, hey, what what do you know about?
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: The Kandahar giant. And he said his face completely contorted.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: And they were no longer just being happy and laughing.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: He became very stern. And he said, what have you
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: gotten yourself into? What are you looking into? He said,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: you need to be really careful. And he wouldn't tell
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: him anything else. That's the kind of reaction that That
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: I get and others get whenever we try and get
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: information on this story.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: It's a very fun story. I don't know why it's
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: so fun, but it's very fun. But the question is,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: what would be the reason why they would want to
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: keep something like this a secret? I don't totally understand it.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I don't either.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, if there really were a race of giants
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: that survived, let's assume... that what we're talking about is
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: what's referenced in the Bible, right? Let's assume, or at
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: least the Book of Enoch, the Nephilim, right? If we're
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: talking about giants, like the thing about giants is like
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Native Americans have stories about redheaded giants. They talk about
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: the same thing, about them having six fingers and six toes.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: They have these same myths. Like how is it that
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: people from the Middle East and people from North America—
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: have this same ancient story and what is it what
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: is it in reference to like why why does that.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: It's ubiquitous this I mean the legends of giants are
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: universal all over.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: The earth why hide that that's what I don't understand
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: like the stories about the Smithsonian are always fascinating yeah
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: because the stories are there have been archaeological digs and
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: they have discovered like enormous femurs that they thought were
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: like woolly mammoths or something and then they realized like
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: well this is a giant human and They find hair
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: and the hair is red and that they take these
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: bones and they tuck them away somewhere. I mean, this
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: is always the myth. They tuck them away in the
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: basement of the Smithsonian or somewhere else. And for whatever reason,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the general public is not allowed to know about this.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: And I don't totally understand. What is it about giants
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: that they would try to keep from us? Like if
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: they find a new species of dinosaur that's extinct, they'll
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: let you know. Fascinating. Amazing. They find Homo floresiensis or
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: however you say it, the little hobbit people.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: They'll let you know. Look, we found little hobbit people.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Pretty cool. Giants, for whatever reason.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a conundrum.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: If it's real.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: You think it's real. Giants in general?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 100%.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: What makes you think it's real?
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, so– Let me tell you why I think that
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: this thing's being covered up, and then I'll tell you
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: why I think it's real. And we'll go to Sardinia
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: for that. So I, like you, have been wondering for
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: a long time, like, what is the big deal? And initially,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: people in my field, especially people who are coming from
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: a biblical perspective, the common answer is, well, the existence
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: of giants would affirm the biblical narrative, right? And so
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: the secular atheist types don't want the biblical narrative affirmed.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: That can't be right because the existence of giants doesn't
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: just affirm the biblical narrative. It affirms the myths and
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: legends of every ancient culture across the globe.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Including the Bible. So it's not something that's specific, exclusive
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: to the text of scripture. So it would just affirm
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: all these legends in general. So the only thing that
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: makes sense to me at this point, and the other
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: line of thinking, by the way, would be that it
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: would somehow conflict with the theory of evolution by natural selection.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: which I don't really buy into that either because they
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: would just say that this branch of humanoids, they descended
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: from Gigantopithecus or something like that. I don't think it
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: would be that difficult of a problem for the theory
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: of evolution by natural selection either. I'm not myself an evolutionist,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: but I don't see them having that difficult of a
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: problem here. So the only thing left on the table
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: for me is that there's something very sinister going on
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: in regard to the remains of giants. And if you
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: study the mythology of giants all over the world, especially
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: in the ancient Near East, you will discover that there was,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: in fact, a cult of giants, that there were cultures
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: that venerated giants, and that there was a very particular
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: belief about giants. And this goes back into the Book
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: of Enoch. And the idea is that this race of
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: beings who are not entirely human, they're hybrids, that when
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: they die, you can still make contact with their spirits,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: with their souls. They can be summoned. They, in fact,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: these are the demons that these are in the New
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Testament of the These are the demons that possess people.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: This is the origin of demons, by the way, in
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Hebrew cosmology. So there's this pervasive idea, again, especially in
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the ancient Near East, that dead giants can be communicated
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: with and can possess living human beings, their spirits. And
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: so you have a cult of giants in the ancient
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Near East, especially among the Canaanites. And the Canaanites, they... Actually,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: there's various customs and rites related to giants, but one
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: of the specific ones that we know about is called Kispam,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: the Rite of Kispam. And there's a fantastic book written
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: by my friends Derek and Sharon Gilbert called Veneration, where
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: they detail the Rite of Kispam and this idea of
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: making contact with the spirits of dead giants and the
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: veneration of giants. And the rite of Kispim was, it
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: was practiced, broadly speaking, in the ancient Near East, but
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: specifically among the Amorites and other Canaanite clans as well.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: And what they would do is they would hold a feast,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: and then they would invite the dead to come and
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: join them at the feast. So this was a necromantic rite.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: And they would evoke the dead, and they believed that
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: the dead would come and eat with them. Now, the kings...
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: and specifically the Amorite kings, they would invoke the spirits
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: of the mighty ones, the great ones, the giants of old,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the Rephaim. The biblical account names various different clans of
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: giants that inhabited the Levant during and after the conquest
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: by Joshua and the Hebrews. And you had the Anakim
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: who descended from the Nephilim. You had the Rephaim the Zamzumim,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: the Amim. These are various clans of giants that are
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: specifically named in the Bible. Of course, we get Goliath
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: of Gath. Gath is a Philistine city. After Joshua entered
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: the promised land, they drove out and eradicated a lot
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: of these giant clans. But some of them remained. Some
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: of the individuals remained, and they primarily went to the
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Philistine cities of Gaza, Gath, and Ashdod. And so you
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: have Goliath of Gath, who David encounters later in the
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: biblical text. So it's these heroes of old, these descendants
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: of the Nephilim, that the Amorites and the ancient Near
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Easterners are attempting to make contact with because they have knowledge.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And these are possessing spirits. And so the Rite of Kisboom,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the kings would summon the Rephaim by name. And you
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: can find this in the Ugaritic texts. Ugarit was an
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Amorite city-state located on the shore of the Mediterranean in
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: what is today northern Syria. And they have uncovered documents
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: where the Amorite kings are summoning, specifically by name, summoning
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: dead giants, the Rephaim. And the idea is to summon
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: them and then to become empowered by their spirits, their
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: possessing spirits. Again, this goes back to the tradition of Enoch.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: That the giants, when they die, their spirits are in
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: sort of a state of suspended animation. And they can
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: be revived. They can be resurrected, as it were. And
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: can be made to inhabit the bodies of human beings.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: So there's this ancient cult that existed in the ancient
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Near East and other parts of the world. And it's
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: associated with the cult of Baal. So you have.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Baal, the giants were thought of as the warriors of Baal.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: So today we know that the cult of Baal persists.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, the Epstein files. We know that the cult
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: of Baal is still being practiced.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: When you say the Epstein files, what do you mean?
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: There's references to Baal. And there's this recurrent theme of
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Baal worship. And Baal, Jesus refers to Baal as Satan
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: in the New Testament. So it's basically Satanism. It's a
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: satanic cult.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: How is it referenced in the Epstein files?
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: There's some references to Baal. I can't remember the exact references.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: But there's apparently a cult of Baal. And the elites
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: are obsessed with some of the elites. I don't know
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: who or how many of them. But it's becoming increasingly
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: apparent that there's an infatuation between with these ancient Near
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Eastern cults, specifically the Canaanitish cults. And so the reason
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: why I'm going through all of this is because I
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: think it's still alive and well today in society. And
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I believe that they're using the bones, the remains of
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: giants in these practices. I think it's extremely dark. I
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: think this is part of the reason why, part of
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: the reason why there may be a cover-up around it.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Nothing else makes sense to me. Nothing else makes sense
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: In terms of the cover-up?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: In terms of the cover-up, what we were talking about earlier.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Well, the cover-up, it makes sense to me that you
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: have incredibly powerful, wealthy people that don't want to be
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: exposed as being perverts and whatever the fuck they were
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: up to. There's all the weird shit with beef jerky
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and pizza. There's these very strange references that seem to
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: not be talking about beef jerky. It's some kind of
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: a code.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: There's also the fact that he brought an enormous amount
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: of sulfuric acid right after he was indicted to the island.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I forget how many gallons of it, but barrels of
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: sulfuric acid, which is what you would use to dissolve bodies.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: So it seems like there's a lot of reasons for
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: a cover-up. If this guy was running some sort of
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: blackmail operation and had information on powerful people, you would
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: That would make sense that that's why they would cover
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: it up.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the cover-up for the pedophilia.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Or just– but even if it's not pedophilia, even just
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: adultery or drug use or whatever.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: The ball thing apparently comes up on a bank file
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: and it may have been misinterpreted.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: It does say B-A-A-L.name.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: But people who are digging into this say that it
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: might have just been a misinterpretation.
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: That's the only mention of it.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Misinterpretation?
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's another page here shows that here's
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: like the document. It might have just, it doesn't even
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: say it there that I can see it.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure exactly.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: Here's where it says it.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Exactly where bail is referenced specifically.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right there.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: There for one place for sure.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: Bank document. I don't know if that has anything to
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: do with the occult specifically.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Just imagine if. it's the name of Satan and this
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: is the name of your bank account.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: That's quite odd. Yeah.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: That's at least creepy.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: At least creepy.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: So you have this, this, this scenario in which let's
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: just say for the sake of argument that it's true.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: That the legends are true. The giants are real. That,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: that you can make contact with their spirits.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Through their bones?
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Through, maybe through their remains. Um, Or at least people
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: believe this.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Is there some sort of a method that they use?
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so this will get us into Sardinia. So
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: whenever anyone asks me, what's the best evidence you've ever
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: seen for the existence of giants? Now, you've already cited
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: some historical context around this. The legend of giants is everywhere.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: It's in every continent. And you have giants, aside from
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the biblical account, obviously all over the Mesopotamia, the cult
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: of giants. In the United States, they're in the era
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: of the Smithsonian Gate, the Smithsonian's apparent– the Smithsonian Institution's
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: apparent cover-up of giants, especially the ones that were being
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: discovered in the mounds here in the United States. But
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: it's pervasive. In Peru, there's legends of giants. And the natives,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: the indigenous peoples absolutely believe there was a primordial race
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: of giants, the same thing in Central America. They believe
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: there was a primordial race of giants that was destroyed
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: in a cataclysm, specifically a flood. That's what the Inca believed,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: that Betacocha, the guy Betacocha, created first a race of giants,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: but they were stupid and evil, and so he destroyed
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: them in a flood. Same story down in– up in
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Mexico and among the Aztec. And the Native Americans, the
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: six-finger red-haired giants and so forth. So there's a lot
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: of historical context, and I would– and of course it's anecdotal,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: but it's– but how much anecdotal evidence just– at one
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: point does– anecdotal evidence just become evidence when there's, when
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: it's so pervasive all over the world.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: So, um, as I was traveling around the world, studying
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: giants and researching this topic and investigating different stories and legends, um,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I went to Malta, which is very interesting. Obviously lots
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: of legends of giants in Malta associated with the megaliths.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: And then, and then I kind of hit ground zero
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: for giants, which is the island of Sardinia. And, The
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: island of Sardinia is located west of Rome. It's part
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: of Italy. It's in the western Mediterranean, below Corsica. And
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: many people don't realize this about Sardinia, but Sardinia has
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: the highest, has the most megaliths anywhere on Earth. It
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: has the highest concentration of megaliths anywhere that I've been,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: as far as I'm aware of. there are these massive
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: megalithic towers called Nuraghi that were constructed allegedly by the,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: or conventionally by the Nuraghi, the Nuraghi civilization, Bronze Age civilization.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: And there are today still at least 7,000 of these
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: things standing. You can go to Sardinia and see 7,000
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Nuraghi towers. There are at one time 10 to 30,000
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: of these megalithic towers. And some of these towers stood
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: over 100 feet tall. Jamie, can we see.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Some pictures of these? Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what... Yeah,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: how would he look?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Nuraghi. Sardinia Nuraghi. Nuraghi's built.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: I got three different things, so I don't... I guess
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: this is it. Yeah, that's what it is.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: So what is the timeline of this Nuragic... How do
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: you say it? Nuragic?
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: The Nuragic civilization. It's the Bronze Age.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The Bronze Age.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: So what is that? 3300 BC to about 1200 BC.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: And that's what this stuff is from. And they say
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: that these were built in the Bronze Age. That's the
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: conventional idea. And again, there's 7,000 of them on the
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: island today. But there are up to, I've seen estimates
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: up to 30,000, including at the museum in Sardinia. And
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: aside from these towers, they also have These are– by
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: the way, these are megalithic. So these are megalithic towers
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: that are constructed in the Cyclopean style. And Cyclopean masonry,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Cyclopean architecture is the trademark of megaliths worldwide. And Cyclopean–
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: this is the archaeological term for the technique. Cyclopean referencing
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: the great Cyclopes of Greek mythology who were believed to
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: be the inventors of tower buildings. And, you know, the builders,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the offspring of the gods who were the great builders
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: and masons. That's the mythology. But the trademark of Cyclopean
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: architecture is that these are large stones that are fitted
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: together without the use of any binding agent like mortar,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: without any kind of mortar. And you have exquisite examples
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: of Cyclopean masonry in different parts of the earth, like
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: in Peru. The walls of Sacsayhuaman are absolutely amazing, breathtakingly.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: beautiful in regard to their design and the polygonal, tightly
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: fitting blocks, immense blocks of stone. Whereas in Sardinia, these
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: are crude blocks, the crudely worked blocks of basalt and
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: granite and limestone that are fitted together, but without the
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: use of mortar. So they are built in the Cyclopean style.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: And again, some of them were a hundred feet tall
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: and they had a Some of them were for defensive purposes.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: And some of them had a wooden platform that crowned
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: the top. And that platform was buttressed by other very
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: large stones that were finally cut, sometimes basalt. I've seen
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: some of these stones in Sardinia. I've been to the
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: island a few times researching the towers and giants. And
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: aside from the towers, these megalithic towers, you also have
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: megalithic tombs, which are called to this day the tombs
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: of the giants. And you can go and visit them.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: There's 800 of them extant today. And archaeologists believe there
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: were many more in the past. No one knows exactly
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: how many. But oftentimes it seems to me that the
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: towers and the tombs are closely associated. They fulfill a function,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: I think, that is interrelated. And the megalithic tombs of
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: the giants, according to legend in Sardinia, They were associated
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: with the bodies of giants. But of course, today you
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: have armchair archaeologists who'll say that's just a myth. You
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: couldn't even fit bodies inside of these tombs. Yes, you could.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, none of these guys have ever bothered to
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: go to Sardinia with a tape measure.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: And yes, you can. You can fit the bodies of nine, eight, nine,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: 10 foot tall guys in these tombs without a problem.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: And there's two different styles of megalithic tombs in Sardinia.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: You have the stele style, which... It's– there's a large
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: steely stone, a monolithic stone in the front with a
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: little doorway in it. And a doorway is almost like
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: a little doggy door at the bottom. But it's big enough.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I mean a young person could crawl through it. And
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: then you have the trilithon doorway, this style of megalithic tomb,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: which is a larger doorway. You still have to– like
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: a guy my size would still have to bend down
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: to get inside. But the tombs are configured the same.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: They're shaped the same, these two different styles. And what
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of people misunderstand about the tombs is the
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: tombs were not built to house the bodies of giants.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: They were built on top of the interred giant. So
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: the giant was inhumed beneath the tomb. It was buried
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: beneath the tomb. And then the edifice was built on top.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: So that opening.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Where are you getting this information?
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: This is known in Sardinia. I spent a lot of time...
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: researching the tombs of the giants in Sardinia and talking
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: to various experts.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: And who are these experts, like local historians?
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Some of them, yeah. You can also go to the
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: museums in Sardinia and read a lot of this stuff. Now,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I have a friend named Paula Loy. I think she's
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: the best tour guide in Sardinia. And she's extremely knowledgeable
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: about all this stuff. She'd take you to the museum
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: and you walk through all of this information with her.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: And they have little models in the museum of the
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: tombs of the giants. And there's a legend in Sardinia
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: that it's called the Rite of Incubation. And this is
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: a necromantic rite that was practiced by the Sardinians. And
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: it describes the purpose of the tombs. So the tombs,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: when you walk into the tombs, again, they're megalithic. The
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: walls are megalithic. Some pretty large stones incorporated in these tombs.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: When you walk into the tombs, there's a gallery inside.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: And the gallery is rather large. You could fit a
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: body of a giant in there, but that's beside the
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: point because that's not the purpose of the tomb. The
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: purpose of the tomb, of the gallery inside the tomb,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: is to is for the it's to accommodate a young
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: person during a rite of passage. And during the Bronze Age,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: you're talking about boys from 12 to 14 years old, right?
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Generally speaking. And they would go into the tomb alone
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: and they would be sealed in the tomb. So that
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: little doggy door that's in the stele, the stele version
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: of the tombs of the giants, they would crawl in
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: there and then they would be sealed inside. And there's
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: a little On most of those stele tombs, there's a
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: little hole at the top as well. So it's not
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: like they're sealed in there and they can't breathe or anything. No,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: they would go in there and they would spend some
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: days in the tomb alone.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: This is what it looks like?
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: That's one of the doors with the stele monolithic stone.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: And they're all shaped the same. It's hard to tell
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: because they've been disassembled. Many of them have been disassembled.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: But you can see there the trilithon. That's a trilithon tomb.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: That's something else. That's a well. But the tombs are
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: all shaped. You can see down there. See the picture
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: right below that one. There you go. See how the
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: tombs are shaped?
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Now, that's how all these tombs are shaped that way.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: This has to do with the rite of incubation. So
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: the young person would go inside the gallery. They'd be
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: sealed inside, the young boy. And the purpose of this
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: was to incubate inside of the gallery in order to
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: be empowered and energized by the spirit of the mighty
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: one buried there. beneath the tomb. And again, according to legend,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: the mighty ones were giants. So I don't think it's
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: coincidental that the tombs are actually shaped like a womb.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: If you look at that, the view of the tomb
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: from above, originally when I was researching this in Sardinia,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I thought it was shaped like a bull's head, which
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: would be something like the iconographic of Molech or something
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: like that, Canaanitish. But I realized that actually this is
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: shaped like a womb. The tomb looks like a womb.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: If you pull up a womb, you'll see what I mean.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: It looks like a womb, shaped like a womb. And
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: this was to accommodate the rite of incubation. And so
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: these young people, the idea is they're in there. They
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: are communing, incubating in the presence of the dead hero
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: buried beneath. And they're absorbing their spirit, their prowess. And
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: then the tomb is unsealed and the young person emerges
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: from the womb, as it were. It's like a new birth.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: They went in a boy. They're now coming out a
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: man empowered by the spirit of their ancestral heroes. So
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: these are called to this day the tombs of the giants. Now,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: you can say, well, that's just. mythology. That's just Sardinian legend.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: The problem is you can interview people, or at least
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: you could in times past, interview Sardinians all across the
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: island who have themselves dug up the bones of giants
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: or encountered the bones of giants and in some kind
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: of a, in some context, usually around the towers, the
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Nuraghi towers. I interviewed dozens of people in Sardinia, most
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: of them elderly, who had themselves encountered the bones of
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: giants in different contexts, while plowing in fields, they'd pull
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: up bones, or they would find the bones in the
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: tombs or whatever. And it's very easy to dismiss the
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: whole thing as, well, they're just digging up megafauna. The
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: bones of mastodons and giant sloths. The problem is some
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: of these bones had jewelry. Some of them had Roman
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: coins associated with them. Some of them had rings on
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: the fingers and necklaces around the neck, the collar. And
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: they would actually– and most of these were old-timers because
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: this doesn't– it's not really happening anymore in Sardinia. This
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: is something that was happening in the 60s, 50s, 40s,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: 30s and back. But especially between– like post-World War II
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: when the island was undergoing a process of industrialization and
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: they were building new roads and digging for foundations and stuff.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: They were digging up the bones of giants. And there's
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: a particular church called Santa Anastasia in Sardinia. And it's
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: in the region of Sadara. And I interviewed two gentlemen
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: in Sardinia, two guys. who were officially employed by the
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: municipality and by the University of Cagliari. Cagliari is the
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: capital city of Sardinia. They were specifically employed to excavate
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: the ruins, the Nuragic ruins, on the premises of the
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Church of Santa Anastasia. Santa Anastasia is a small little
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Catholic church. But if you go there, you'll see that
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: even today, you can see the remains of a Nuragic
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: settlement there. There are Nuraghi towers there. It's an archaeological site.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: And these two individuals, one of them, his name was Giuseppe,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: the other's name was Roberto. And Giuseppe worked there from,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: he worked there from, I believe it was 1979 to 1981.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: And then Roberto worked there from 1982 to 1984. Both
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: of these guys employed officially in an official capacity from
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: the municipality of Sadara to do this excavation. And so
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: they would be there regularly. The protocol was you go
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: and you excavate the ruins and all the artifacts you
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: find get put into the church. So all the artifacts
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: went into the church of Santa Anastasia. And you can
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: see this church, by the way, if you pull it up,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: it's called Santa Anastasia in Sardinia. And all the bones
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: were put into the church. All the artifacts were put
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: into the church. And among the artifacts that were being
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: collected were the skeletons of giants and not mastodons, not
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: giant sloths.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Are there photographs of these things?
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: These guys, well, of course not. But these guys were
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: very reluctant to talk to us. The one guy, Roberto,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: was very nervous. He said, we were told never to
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: talk about this. This never happened. Again, this was back
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: in the 80s. He didn't think anything of it. He
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: wasn't told go to Santa Anastasia and look for the
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: bones of giants. He was just told go excavate the site.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: He was one of the excavators at Santa Anastasia. And
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: the whole thing was being... The whole thing was being
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: supervised by the municipality and the university. And he dug
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: up– personally, he said he dug up the bodies, two bodies,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: 10-foot tall guys, full skeletons. And he laid them out
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: in the– these ones he laid out in the courtyard
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: of the church. And he said– he notified the people
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: in Cagetti of the discovery. And what would happen is
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: all the artifacts that would go into the church or
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: in this case outside of the church, somebody would come
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: at night and take them all away. So they get
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: there in the morning, all the artifacts are gone. He
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: didn't know where they went. The other individual, Giuseppe, he
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: also excavated giants from Santa Anastasia. Various, various artifacts related
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: to the giants, gigantic plates, gigantic cups and goblets, chalices.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: They excavated a lot of different artifacts, rings and earrings
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: and necklaces and all kinds of, all manner of artifacts.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: And He told me that he remembers a particular case
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: in which he and his wife, his wife was helping
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: on this particular day. They're excavating in the ruins and
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: they found a skull that was so large. So the
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: skulls were three to four times larger than ours. He
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: found this skull that was very large and it had
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: part of the vertebrae attached. Some of these remains were
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: not just skeletal. There was like almost like mummified and,
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: and he and his wife together carried it into the church.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: He told me that while they were digging, they unsealed
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: a compartment inside of one of the towers. There's this
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: large room that was sealed. Like it was just, it
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: had collapsed or whatever was sealed. And they opened it
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: up and they went inside and there was a giant,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: this very large person sitting at a table. And there were,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: there's a really large plate and an oversized chalice there.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: And he even had he was eating oysters and mussels
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: and clams that were still on the plate. And he
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: was very large. I mean, these guys are, when I
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: say large, they're nine to 12 feet tall. That's how
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: tall these guys are. And they were, it was remarkable.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: He was extremely well preserved. And because apparently he had
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: been almost like hermetically sealed in this thing. And so they,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: they took all the artifacts and the bones and, and
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: put them into the church. And the next day they
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: were all gone. I mean, this was the procedure. It was,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: These guys uncovered a lot of interesting stuff at that
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: one particular excavation at the Church of Santa Anastasia in Sardara.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: And they were filling the church up with so many
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: artifacts that Giuseppe told me that he went over to
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: the mayor and he told the mayor, is there anywhere
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: else that we can put these bones, these artifacts, because
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: we're running out of space in the church. And he
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: was surprised at the mayor's response. The mayor looked at
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: him and said, mind your own effing business. Put the
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: artifacts in the church and shut your mouth. So, um,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: these are the kinds of stories I would hear all
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: the time in Sardinia. I mean, I could go on
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: and on and on. I talked to one guy that was, uh,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Cy Virgilio was his name. He was a hundred years old. Very, um,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: very interesting guy. And Cy had, uh, been on a
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: site when he was a young man. He, he, he
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: told me a couple of stories, but he told me
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: that he was, he was, he was working in a
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: vineyard one time and they were excavating in this, they
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: weren't excavating. They were, they were tilling the soil to
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: plant a vineyard. And as they're tilling the soil, they
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: start to dig up bones and they realize there's a
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: very large skeletal remains. And They found like 20 of
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: them and they were laying on top of each other
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: in a crisscross pattern. And so as soon as they
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: started to find these bones, the owner of the vineyard said, stop, stop.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: I have to notify the authorities. So he notifies the
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: authorities and he came back to the workers and said,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: you guys have to get out of here. The authorities
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: are coming. You have to leave now. And Sy said
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: that everyone left, but he hid in the bushes until
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: everyone had left. And he went back to work in
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: the field because He said, I needed the money and
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: I wanted to actually get paid for the day's wage.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: So I went back and I worked and I kept
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: tilling the field. And he said, all of a sudden, well,
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: the owner of the field came back and he said,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: what are you doing here? I told you to leave.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: And he said, I needed the money, so I'm going
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: to keep working. And the guy said, no, no, I'll
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: pay you double. Just get out of here. And while
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: they're talking, the government guys pull up. And they pull
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: up in some various vans and they come out and
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: they start taking pictures of all the bones. And they
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: take pictures of the bones of these skeletal remains that
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: are laying in these cross configurations. And then they load
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: them all into the vans. And then they went up
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: into the nearby Nuraghe. There was a Nuraghe there, one
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: of these megalithic towers. And they were inside the Nuraghe
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: looking at something, taking pictures. And Sai said that they
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: sealed up, like with cement, they sealed up this tunnel,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: this something inside of it. And then they left. And
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: I heard dozens of these kind of stories in Sardinia. Dozens.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: These people have no reason to lie to me. I mean,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: most of these are old-timers. We didn't pay them. They
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: live out in the country. I don't know if you've
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: ever been to Sardinia. It's like going back in time
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: in Italy. These are very simple people who live out
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: in the country. But as I said earlier, the bones,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: these giants are being found with artifacts. Oh.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: Sorry to interrupt, but I'm looking at a story. They're
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: talking about finding skeletons there. They're calling them skeletons. They're
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: calling them giants, but they're referring to statues.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Those are the giants of Monte Prado. Those are just
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: statues of the giants of Monte Prado.
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's news articles. It goes back to the 70s.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those are just statues. Those are in a museum there.
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: But they call them skeletons is the only thing I
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: was saying.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: No, they're stone. They're in the museum. They're about seven
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: feet tall, I think. Some people wonder if those are actually.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Uncovered skeletons. I saw another article here where it said
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: they found two... giant skulls, but they're talking about the statues.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, some people wonder if those statues actually represented the
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: anatomical proportions of the giants. I don't know. I don't
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: know that that's the case. But yeah, that's about all
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: you're going to hear if you go through.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: It just seems insane that there's not a photo, something,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: of all these things, or that some wealthy... Crazy person
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: didn't get a hold of someone and say, listen, I'll
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: give you $ 10 million. Get me a hand. I want
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: to put it in a glass case in my house.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: We know that they've done that with Egyptian stuff. Like
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of Egyptian artifacts have been pilfered. Yep.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Artifacts from– a lot of artifacts from Peru. Yes. Central
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: and South America.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: There's a very robust black market.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Which is so wild. Like who are these people that
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: have these things?
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: That's a good question. Well, I was told in Sardinia
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: they told me that in some cases they– the bones
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: were confiscated. They were gathered up and thrown into vehicles
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: and carted away. Sai told me another story where he
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: was digging a foundation for a house. He and an associate.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: And they came upon a very large sarcophagus. And they
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: pried it open and he said there was a body
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: of a very large person inside and it had a
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: black– it was wearing some sort of black fabric. And
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: there were coins that were minted from Antoninus Pius, the
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Roman emperor, from that time. And they reported there was
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: a local priest and they told the priest that they
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: found a body, right? Like we found a dead body.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: What do we do? And so the priest came over
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: and he looked down at the pit. He said, give
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: me the coins. They gave him the coins. He said,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: break the bones up and distribute them in the foundation
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: of the house. I mean, this was, you know, if
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: you went to Sardinia today, I think you would think
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: to yourself, okay, yeah, I can see how there's no
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: one's taking pictures or anything over here. This is like
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: going way back in time in Italy, especially back in
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: the 40s, 50s, and 60s when most of these things happened. Now,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: the excavations at Santa Anastasia happened in the late 70s,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: early 80s. But all these other stories are coming from
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: the you know, 60s, 50s, 40s. So I mean, there
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: was just so many people who I talked to, you know,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: random people would tell me as I interviewed them that, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I was digging in my basement one time and, you know,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: years ago and I dug up a hand. It was
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: a hand, five fingers. And, you know, it was three
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: times the size of my hand.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Now, five fingers.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's random. That could just be you know, megafauna something.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know how many, what a giant sloth hand
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: looks like or whatever. And let me say this. There
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: is no question, none, no question that a lot of
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: the accounts that you hear about giants, not the ones
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: associated with coins and jewelry, but a lot of the
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: accounts that you hear about giants and the skeletons of giants,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: they do have prosaic explanations. A lot of them do
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: end up being megafauna bones, especially giant sloths and stuff
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: like that. There was a case in Peru, actually it
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: was in Ecuador, This is referenced in the Chronicles of Peru,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: that there's a place called Santa Elena, and it's a
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: peninsula in Ecuador. And there's various chroniclers who talk about this.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: And these are the chroniclers who chronicle the history of
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: the conquest of Peru, the Pizarro and the conquistadors who
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: defeated the Inca. And they say that There was a
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: race of giants that there was– giants came up– the
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: natives told the conquistadors and the chroniclers that according to legend,
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: giants came over the sea on large reed boats. And
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: these giants were– they were very, very large and they
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: had red hair and some of them were naked and
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: some of them were dressed in very primitive clothing. And
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: they landed on the shores of Santa Elena, one of
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: the places they landed, and they began to terrorize the
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: local population. The indigenous people hated them because they were
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: eating all of the food. I mean the natives said
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: that they consumed 50 times the amount of food as
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: a regular-sized person. And so the natives hated them. They
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: said that the giants built these deep wells. They dug
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: these really deep wells, which you could still see. The
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: conquistadors said we could still see them today. They built
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: these houses with very large blocks and huge beams of wood,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: which were still there when the conquistadors were writing about
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: this in the 17th and 18th centuries. And according to legend,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: these giants, they were sodomites, and they didn't have any
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: women with them. and they were basically struck down by God.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: And the natives have that and other legends regarding giants
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: being destroyed by God in various ways. But it turns
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: out that Santa Elena is one of the most important
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: sites for megafauna bones. And there's tons of megafauna, especially
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: giant sloths. So you have lots of megafauna bones in
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Santa Elena. And I have no doubt that the natives
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: and the people living during that time, in the aftermath
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: of the conquest of the Inca Empire, thought that those
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: were the bones of giants.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Right, because there was no giant sloths alive at that time.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And in some of the accounts, you can see
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: where they're saying in the giants and we uncovered a
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: giant that had a deformed body. And I thought, oh,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: that's probably a giant sloth or something, right? So, yeah,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of that unquestionably. You have to be
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: very careful as a researcher. And in the beginning, when
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: I– this was years ago when I first started out
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: researching this stuff. I made the mistake of just taking
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: that story literally and believing, oh, yeah, they were digging
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: up bones of giants here. Santa Elena, until I realized
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: that that is like one of the best places in
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: the world to find megafauna bones. So obviously you have
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: to concede to the facts of reality. They're digging up
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: megafauna there. However, however, there are other stories that come
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: from the chronicles in Peru where there's no way they're
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: talking about megafauna. And these stories come from the same
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: chroniclers who From which we derive, from the same text,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: from which we derive the history of the conquest of Peru,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: the same guys. Guys like Bernabe Cobo and Antonio de
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: la Calancha and Pedro Cieza de Leon, all of the
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: famous chroniclers. And there's one case in particular I find
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: very intriguing. There's lots of them. By the way, when
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: I was in– I lived in Peru for 10 years
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: at some point. And then later on I went back
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: to Peru and doing various investigations when I was looking
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: into this, making documentaries about giants. And when I was
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: in Peru, I was in Puno some years ago, probably
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: back in 2015, 2016. I was in Puno, and I
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: met with an archaeologist in Puno. His name was Edmundo
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: de la Vega, a very well-known archaeologist. And I asked him, hey,
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: are there any accounts of giants in the historical records here?
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: And he said, yeah, I think there's a couple accounts
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: of giants here. And I said, okay. He said, I
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: don't think there's many, but I think there's a couple. Okay. Well,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: the next morning he comes walking into my hotel in
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: the lobby and he's got a big smile on his
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: face and he hands me a disc. And he said,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: I went, after we talked, I went into the archives.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: They have access to the digital archives. And I did
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: a word search to try and see if I could
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: find some of these accounts of giants. He said, I
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: cannot believe how many references to giants there are in
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: the Chronicles. And he handed me the disc and I, I,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: I opened the files and indeed there were many. Now,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: some of them were in reference to Santa Elena, but
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: some of them were much more remarkable. For example, I'll
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: give you one example here. There was a Jesuit priest
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: named Pablo Jose Arriaga who was going around Peru and
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: he wrote a book called The Extirpation of Idolatry in Peru.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: I think it was 1602. And he's going around Peru
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: with the which were called the visitadores. These were officials,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: they were clergymen that were dispatched to Peru who were
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: extirpating idolatry. They were very fair, these people, these visitadores,
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: these official idolatry hunters, basically, because they were brutal. And
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: what they would do is they would go with the
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: priests into the villages, They would find out what are
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: the natives worshiping, and then they would destroy it and
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: then force convert the population. And they chronicled everything. Everything
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: they found, because they had to. This was an official assignment, right?
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: So they chronicle everything that they find. This village, they
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: go to this village, they're worshiping this. We broke it
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: into pieces or we burned it in the fire. And
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: these are official records. And among these records, and this
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: is this comes from as i said pablo jose arriaga
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: but also later on antonio de la calancha who is
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: a augustinian monk it enlarges the story he expands on
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: the story using other documents including uh um including um
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: um Arriaga's version. And the story goes that Arriaga and
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: the visitadores, they went into the village and they were led,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: they inquired, what are you worshiping? Where are your gods?
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: And the indigenous people of Peru, they worshiped huacas. And
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: the huaca could be anything. It could be an idol.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: It could be a mountain. It could be a hill.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: It was just huacas. Even to this day, they call
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: them huacas. And so they inquired, where are your huacas?
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: And they led them to the other side of the village,
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: where there is a large cave. And they go into
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: the cave. And when they went in there, they record
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: that there were many dead Gentiles. And among them were
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: two giants dressed in kumbi, and they were enshrined. Now,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: that's very interesting.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Kumbi?
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Kumbi is a very fine fabric that is.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: It was used exclusively by the Inca nobility. In fact,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: it was illegal for anyone else to wear kumbi. Only
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: the Inca nobility could wear kumbi. It's very fine fabric,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: so it's very ceremonial, and it belongs by law to
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: the noble class. So these indigenous people, they can't wear kumbi,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: but yet they dressed these two, and it said that
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: the bodies were well-preserved, almost like mummified. They dressed these
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: two giants in kumbi, And they were enshrined in this tomb.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: And so when they realized that they were worshiping these giants,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: these dead giants, and the natives told them that these
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: were their ancestors, these were their progenitors, that's what they
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: told the visitadores of idolatry, they took the bodies out
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: of the tomb and they burned them in the village. Now,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: that's very interesting to me because you have two... Bodies,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: not just skeletal remains, bodies of giants, decayed with time
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: but still quite well preserved, dressed in cumbi. This doesn't
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: sound like a giant sloth to me. This doesn't sound
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: like a mastodon. This is something else. And it corresponds
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: to all the legends among the natives there in Peru
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: regarding the existence of giants who were their progenitors. So
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: those are just– those are some historical details, some historical
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: accounts that I find very intriguing.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Well, there's so many of them. That's what's weird. And
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: there's also this very bizarre desire that people have of
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: destroying things from the past. We find that with– I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: mean the Taliban did that. That's right. There's a bunch
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: of different incredible archaeological sites that were destroyed by past civilizations.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: We just talked the other day about the– Kailasa temple
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: in India about how they tried to destroy that for
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: a couple of years. They sent a thousand people and
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: they could barely put a dent in it.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Who was trying to destroy that?
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, who was it, Jamie? Do we remember? Some, some, uh,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: who they, they came upon this temple that they, they
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: didn't like that someone else had built it and someone
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: else owned it and someone else had constructed it. You
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: know the Kailasa Temple that was built entirely out of stone?
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the one that was built like literally carved into
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: the ground.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: Into the side of the mountain.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Emperor, say that name. You could say it. You're really
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: good with words. Mughal. What's his name?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Looks like Mughal to me.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: I've never heard of him before. What's the second one? Aurangzeb?
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Aurangzeb?
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Aurangzeb.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Historical figure widely reported to have ordered the destruction of
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: the Kailasa Temple. In 1682, however, his mission failed because
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: the monolithic temple was carved top down from a single
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: solid volcanic rock. His army could only disfigure some sculptures
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: before giving up.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, this was in 1682.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But it's just wild that people have always had
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: this inclination to destroy old fascinating things.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Especially you find this– what's really sad
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: is in Central America among the Aztec, the Maya. There
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: were many codexes of the Aztec and the Maya that
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: were intentionally destroyed by the Catholic Church, by various agents
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: of the Catholic Church, would intentionally destroy these codexes. Could
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: you imagine the information that was stored in those things?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Well, how about the Library of Alexandria? Yeah. I mean,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: who knows what was in there? And they burnt that
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: several times, right? There's the historical accounts related. In North
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: America are interesting because there's actual newspaper stories from– God,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: was it like– I believe it's the 1800s. Do you
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about? Yeah.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: There are all kinds of newspaper stories about giants in
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: the 1800s.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Newspaper stories about giant skeletons that have been discovered and excavated.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, from the mid-1800s to the early 1900s.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: And somehow or another they all relate to the Smithsonian.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: Most of them are associated with the mounds and the
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: mound builders. there were thousands of mounds east of the Mississippi.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, people don't realize how many of these mounds
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: there were. And these are, you know, the monumental mounds
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: and earthworks. Some of them still stand today. Not all
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: of them are burial mounds. You have different kinds of mounds.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: Some of them are effigies. Some of them are platform mounds,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: but many of them are burial mounds. And many of
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: them contain very prosaic things like the bones of native people.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: But some of them were said to have contained some very,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: very interesting artifacts. And among those artifacts were the bones
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: of giants, according to the newspaper reports. Now, there's a
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: lot of them from the 1800s. Giant over 10 feet high, 1872. Yes,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: especially in the latter part of the 1800s.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: How tall was it, Jimmy? Giant over 10 feet high,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: according to Lewis and Richard Collins' History of Kentucky.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: Now, the contention is, of course, that these are wildly
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: exaggerated and that the newspapers were engaging in hyperbole. And
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: that's true to some extent. I have no problem with that.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: They did have hoaxes.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: I've brought this up.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Some of them were hoaxes.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: There's a whole lot of hoaxes.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: Some of them were hoaxes. And these were the periodicals
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: in the United States at the time were very competitive.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: What is that photo? Is that bullshit? That far left photo?
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Now, that far left one, that one was actually– that's
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: a disputed one. Some people believe that that one is
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: in fact– was proven a hoax. Other people think there
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: might be a conspiracy that in fact it wasn't a
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: hoax because it was actually on display for a while.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think there's any way to know.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: But so many articles during that time were discussing these
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: astounding discoveries of the bones of giants and mounds. In fact,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you're aware, but even– it appears
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: that even Abraham Lincoln– references this in some lecture notes.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: He was waxing poetically in some lecture notes about Niagara Falls.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: And he says in those notes, you can still read
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: them today. You can pull them up and read them now.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: He says the eyes of that extinct species of giants
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: whose bones fill the mounds of America have gazed upon
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Niagara as ours do now. Those are from Lincoln's lecture notes.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: I believe it's 1845, the date of those notes.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, I've got to read that.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Now, here's the contention, okay? This is interesting because here's
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: the contention. Okay. The contention is that he was talking
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: about mastodons and mammoths, megafauna. Right. That's what people say
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: because he does mention mastodon and the mammoth later on
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: in the lecture, in the speech. However— What they won't
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: tell you is before he mentions that, he's talking– he's
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: in a biblical context. And he's talking about– he references
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: Jesus and Moses and Adam right before he references the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: giants whose bones are found in the mounds of America.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: See? So the eyes of that species of extinct giants
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: whose bones filled the mounds of America have gazed upon
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Niagara as ours do now, contemporary with the whole race
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: of men. Older than the first man, Niagara is strong
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: and fresh today as 10,000 years ago. The mammoth and
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: mastodon now so long dead that fragments of their monstrous
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: bones alone testify that they ever lived have gazed on
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: Niagara in that long, long time, never still for a
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: single moment, never dried, never froze, never slept, never rested.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: That seems like he's talking about mastodons.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: Well, it very well could be.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: He's talking about the thousands of miles of water that
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: they all would have seen.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: Well, he could be talking about mastodons and mammoths, but
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: look what he references before he gets to the giants.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: Christ and Moses.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Where is that?
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: And Adam.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: He says there's still more.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: It calls up an indefinite past when Columbus first sought
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: this continent when Christ suffered on the cross and Moses
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: led Israel through the Red Sea.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: Nay, even when Adam was made. He's talking in a.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: So here he's in a biblical context.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: First came from the hand of his maker, then as
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: now Niagara was roaring here, the eyes of that species
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: of extinct giants whose bones filled the mounds of America.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: That's what's weird. The bones filled the mounds of America.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: So here's the question. Were the mounds of America filled
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: with the bones of mastodons and giant sloths?
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: No, they weren't. Now, there have been some fragments of
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: bones from mammoths and mastodons found in the mounds. That's true.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: They looked to be ritual pieces that people were buried
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: with that were used for ceremonial purposes or something like that.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe some of them were carved ornately. But like people
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: weren't digging up the skeletons of giant sloths and mastodons
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: and mammoths in the mounds routinely. That was– it was
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: very rare.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: But it seems like if you found dead giants in
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: the mounds that it would be more specific. You would
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: talk about it more than just that.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know either.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: The reference is ambiguous. So we're left to wonder, is
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: he talking about dead giants in the biblical context, which
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: he's clearly in a biblical context before he gets it,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: or is he talking about Macedon?
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: And the issue is that there are giants in the Bible.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: And also that when he wrote, when he penned these
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: lecture notes, there were newspaper articles circulating in the United
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: States announcing the discovery of the bones of giants in
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: the mountains.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: So it's up for debate. I don't know the answer.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: There's got to be somebody who works at the Smithsonian
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: that is sick of this.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: There's got to be someone.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: We need that guy.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: There's got to be some whistleblower that just take your
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: fucking camera phone, get down there and film something, man.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: It seems like if there really are some remnants of
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: some of these things. And the thing that's interesting is,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: you know, what is the museum that John Reeves has
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: issue with?
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: The National American History Museum, I think.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: I know it's in Manhattan.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: So my friend John Reeves, are you aware of him?
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: He owns the Boneyard in Alaska?
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Okay. So this is area of a lot. John's a
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: miner and– He– Museum of Natural History. So he's a
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: miner and he bought this land in Alaska and they're
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: doing gold mining and they're blasting into the permafrost with hoses.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: And they have found an enormous amount of mammoths, cave bears,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: animals that weren't even supposed to be living in Alaska
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: at the time. So now they have to like reformulate
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: their idea of what the population– of this– these lands
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: were at this time but also a layer of like
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: dark carbon that indicates there was some sort of an event.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: All of this is sub-10,000 years ago. So he's finding–
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: I mean he has warehouses. This is like fully– go
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: to the Boneyard Instagram please. He has warehouses of this
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: stuff that he's pulled out of the ground. He won't
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: let anyone take it because the Museum of Natural History–
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: has some of this stuff from the previous owners. They
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: have tons of it and they would not release it
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: to him even though it's his property. So this is–
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: I mean he's finding enormous mastodon skeletons, mammoth tusks. I
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: mean they find tons of them, tons. I mean he
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: has warehouses. He built a scientific research facility there and
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: he's like people can come here and study it but
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not letting any– Post Malone was there. Shout out
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: to Post Malone. mastodon teeth and bones he actually gave
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: me this this is a mammoth tooth that they take
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: some of these things and they they carve artwork into
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: him which is very cool the artwork is kind of
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: fucked it's kind of weird that they do that because it's.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: But this is a mat this is yes like a
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: petrified tooth a molar.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: Rather wow that is really cool yeah amazing yeah so
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: this is all from his property But why?
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: Why is there such a distribution of megafauna bones there?
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: His belief is that there was some sort of a
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: mass extinction event that happened whatever year it was that
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: coincides with the Younger Dryas impact theory.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: And he– Circa 11,000 BC.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: And when he's had some of these things tested and dated,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: they do– they're post– they're around this time. And he
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: thinks that there was some sort of a mass extinction
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: event and the flooding led them all to be washed
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: away into this one very particular area because it's a
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: deep concentration of these bones. Too many that seem to
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: have died around the same time and all preserved. So
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: it seems like because they're preserved in the permafrost that
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: this is– Something that happened, this enormous event, the bodies
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: are washed down into this one area. And because of
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: the landscape, because of the contours of the land, they're
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: collected into this one area. And it's not a big place.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: I think it's four to six acres that he's pulling
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: most of these things out of. And there's several other
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: places that he's now finding things in as well.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: You know, I find really fascinating are the specimens that
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: they find of mammoth and mastodon that are frozen solid.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Chewing food.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: With broken legs sometimes.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Where it's like there's some sort of an impact, some
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: massive shockwave that kills them all instantly.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: Instantly freezes them. Yeah. And I think one of the
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: hypotheses that I've heard is that, you know, you had
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: referencing the Younger Dryas impact event. You had potentially a
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: comet or comets that were ripping through the atmosphere at
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: such high rates of speed that they were pulling in
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: the vacuum of space, that sub-zero temperature air, and like
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: blasting it down on the earth. Yes. And that that
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: air was so cold it would instantly freeze whatever was
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: in its path. You know, as these comets are breaking
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: through the atmosphere. I don't know if that's true, but
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: it's very difficult to explain how you can flash freeze
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: something like that. Right. And then in other parts of
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: the earth, you have apparent biomass. So you have mastodons
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: over here freezing, right, solid. You have other megafauna over
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: here that were clearly swept up in a flood. You
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: have other megafauna and other kinds of extinct plants and
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: stuff that have evidence of burning, biomass burning. So it's
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: like some sort of absolutely unimaginable cataclysm.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: That struck planet Earth at some time, circa 11,000 B.C.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: And it seems like there's a lot of physical evidence
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: in terms of iridium and soil samples. It's very common
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: in space, very rare on Earth, layers of iridium. And
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: then the dark carbon, the layers of burnt material. It
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: seems there was incredible fire. So we were probably hit
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: by asteroids. They also find that nuclear glass, the same
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: stuff that they found during the Trinity explosion.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: They find little particles of that everywhere that seems to
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: indicate a huge impact.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: And this is what Randall Carlson also believes, the same timeline,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: was what caused the melting of the ice layer over
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: North America and created the Great Lakes.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: And caused the massive flooding and the land features that
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: you see from space. If you look down from satellite imagery,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: it clearly looks like there was just immense amounts of
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: water that washed over the land.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and Randall talks a lot about the impact
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: of those comets on the ice sheets, the Laurentide ice sheet,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: for example, two miles thick. What happens when you slam
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: a comet into a two-mile-thick ice sheet?
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: Right, a comet the size of a city.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you superheat it. Then you have all the ejecta
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: coming off of it and landing in force and igniting
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: the force.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: And, of course, if you have advanced civilizations at the time,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: which I believe they did, You have a mass extinction event.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: Everything gets annihilated.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: Nothing left. A few people survive somewhere in the world,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: and it takes thousands of years for them to reinvent civilization.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: Especially the civilizations living in the coastal areas or on
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: the banks of rivers where a lot of civilizations are.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: They're gone. Right. I mean, they're gone.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: They're gone. And not only that, the level of the
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: ocean rises significantly.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: And that's all documented fact, historically accepted. Everyone, you know, geologists, archaeologists,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: everyone accepts that, that this is something that happened. And
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: that the ice sheets in North America were a mile,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: two miles high, three-quarters of the entire continent covered with ice. Recently,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: in terms of like the earth, when you're going back 11,000, 12,000
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: years ago, that's not a long time ago. And this
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: whole thing covered in ice. And then you also have
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: the almost instantaneous extinction of 65% of all North American megafauna,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: which is kind of crazy.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Kind of crazy. Like, what caused that?
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which some anthropologists still maintain today that that's because
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: the indigenous people killed them. Yes. They hunted them into extinction.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: That's cute.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely absurd.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: With atlatls.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely absurd.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: Spears and atlatls. I mean, we don't even know if
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: they had bows and arrows yet. Right. It's just.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: Crazy. Clearly something catastrophic happened in the relatively recent past.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: And this is– as I said, it's the same with giants.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: You have this ubiquitous testimony about giants. Well, concurrent with that,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: you have this ubiquitous testimony about cataclysm.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: Have you seen the work that there's this Italian guy–
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: I'll send you the article, Jamie. There's this Italian guy
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: that is proposing that the– I'll send it to you,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: Jamie– that there's a way of measuring the erosion on
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: the outside of the pyramids that he believes indicates they
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: are at least 10,000 years older than we believe so far.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: I'll send this to you, Jamie. Okay. But this is
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: obviously disputed. But they're 10,000 years older. Super controversial, at least.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: He's talking about the erosion on the granite and that
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: there's– by studying erosion and by studying the timeline of erosion.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: And this is something that Ben Van Kerkwek has talked about.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: When you look at the older non-updated versions of some
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: of the sites– in Egypt, where it's clear that there
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: was original stone, and then there was stone that was
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: built on top of that.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: Here's an article that shows some better pictures.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, so here's the article. So the heading of the article, please.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: So it says, could the Great Pyramid be far older
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: than we thought? A new study says yes. And if
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: you go to it down there, what he's saying is,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: so this is from January of 2026. Go up a
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: little bit, right there, make it bigger. A paper released
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: in January 2026, Italian engineer Alberto Donini presents an unconventional
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: dating approach known as the relative erosion method, which he
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: argues may challenge the long-accepted chronology placed in the construction
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: of the Pyramid of Khufu around 2560 BC. According to
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: Donini's calculations, erosion patterns at the pyramid's base could suggest
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: a construction date tens of thousands of years earlier, potentially
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: as far back as the late Paleolithic period. The claim,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: if substantiated, would have far-reaching implications for the history of
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: ancient Egypt and early civilization. Yet it also raises immediate
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: questions about methodology assumptions and how such results could be
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: interpreted within archaeological science. Well, I don't think archaeology is
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: a science. I just– I think what archaeology is is
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: they're looking at stuff and they're guessing and they're using science.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: And then they're also– they have timelines that they establish
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: that they're very reluctant to let go of.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: And we've seen this with the dating of Gobekli Tepe.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: We've seen this with the erosion around the Temple of
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: the Sphinx. They're very reluctant.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: While simultaneously disregarding the ubiquitous testimony of our ancient antecedents
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: who say that their ancestors were far greater than them.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: Look at this right here. Other points yield far higher values.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: Several measurements suggest erosion equivalent to 20,000 to more than 40,000
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: years of exposure. While the arithmetic mean of all 12
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: points produces a result of approximately 24,900 years before present,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: corresponding to roughly 22,900 BC. I mean, holy shit, if
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: that's accurate.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: And then you have also Filippo Biondi's work where they're
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: looking at the radio tomography below the pyramids. And they
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: have these structures that go 1.2 kilometers down into the earth.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Did you see my– I did an interview on–
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: I made an appearance on Pierce Morgan's show. And Pierce
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: had on Howie Zawas. And I didn't know that I
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: was going to be interacting with Howie Zawas.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: Zahi. Zahi.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: Zahi Was.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Zahi Was. The other way around. I didn't know that
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: I was going to be interacting with him. I was
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: just told that they wanted me to come on and
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: talk about pyramids and stuff.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: Pierce loves a good scramble. He loves a squabble.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: So he set me up, like, here's your opportunity to
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: say whatever you want. It was me and Jimmy Corsetti
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: and some other people. Here's your opportunity to ask Zahi
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: whatever you want. And I'm thinking to myself, I don't
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: really have anything to ask this guy. But then it
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: occurred to me. I actually have– me and my team
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: are in possession of some state-of-the-art ground-penetrating radar technology that
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: we use to great effect in Peru. And so I'm
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: thinking about this discovery, these alleged megastructures under the pyramids.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm thinking, you know, it wouldn't be that difficult.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: You don't have to detect them all the way down.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: You just have to verify that there's something there, right?
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: And so I posited this to Zahi and Zahi. I
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: told them, look, I've got this equipment. Would you facilitate
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: us coming down there? And it operates off of a
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: drone platform. So you don't have to drag it. You
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: can fly it around the pyramid. You don't have to
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: touch the pyramid. You just fly it in the vicinity
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: of the pyramids and see if you can detect something.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, you would do no injury to any artifacts there.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: And he seemed like he was very open to the idea,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: you know, on camera and said that, basically told peers,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: get your people in contact with him so that, you know,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: give him my information so I can reach out to him.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: Of course, that never happened. So it would not be
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: that difficult to verify that. And that's why I'm wondering
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: why you don't have to dig.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: Right. Why wouldn't you want as much exploration at the
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: most spectacular site?
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: That human beings have ever erected on the face of
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: the earth that has a very controversial timeline.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: I mean even the conventional timeline is super controversial because
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: like how the fuck did they do it? Even if
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: you just accept that it's 2500 BC. Okay, great.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: How?
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: I mean I don't know why it being older is
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: more controversial because it's still the same people, the same–
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: It's human beings that lived a long time ago. That's
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: all we're talking about. But why are they sticking to
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: 2500 BC? It's because they've always said that they know.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: They've always said with great certainty and from a position
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: of authority that this is what we know. We know
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: Khufu did this. We know this guy did this. But
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: you don't really know. And there's also an incredible amount
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: of evidence that these guys wrote their name on everything
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: when they– We're in power. They like to put their
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: names on everything.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: Or re-carve the head of the Sphinx.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that's definitely true.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: It's definitely different. There's some controversy about that as well
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: because there's layers of stone that have different gradients, like
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: different hardness. And there are different types of stone. And
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: the face– the controversy is that the face is like
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: a harder stone and it wouldn't erode as quickly. The
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: problem with that is like the stuff that's eroded for
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: a long period in history was covered in sand. We
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: know that for a fact. So there was no erosion
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: going on during that period of time, yet it's massively
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: more eroded than the face.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the fundamental problems that we
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: have as modern Westerners looking at this stuff is we
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: have an inversion of the timeline of history. When we
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: look at the timeline of history– We generally view our
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: antecedents as like cavemen. These are very ignorant people. They're basically,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: you know, chimpanzees with better brains. And as we progress
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: through the timeline of history, we're becoming increasingly more intelligent,
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: increasingly more capable of building and of building these monuments
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: and technology and so forth. So we see ourselves as
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: the pinnacle of the human species. Like we're the smartest.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: We're the greatest. That's not the way that the ancients
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: viewed the antediluvian world. That's not the way that they
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: viewed their antecedents. For them, it was the inverse. For them,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: they were always trying to recover the glory of the
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: people that had come before them, the majesty of the
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: civilization that had come before them. So when they look
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: back down the timeline of history, they're the dummies. And
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: the further you go back, the more extraordinary people are.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: Because they were closer to it. Right. And they all
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: have a myth of the flood. Yes.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: And the antediluvian world in general.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: And they lived in a timeline that was closer to
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: that and more accepted because they probably had a knowledge,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: an understanding, at least the earliest ones, that they didn't
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: make this. And so they probably passed that down.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think they inherited traditions from their ancestors
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: about these things. You know, I mean, you have– you
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: have this idea of a golden age among the ancients.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: The golden age, meaning there was a time on earth,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: the Greeks coined that particular phrase, the golden age. The Egyptians,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: the ancient Egyptians called it Zep Tepi, the first time.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: There was a time on earth when the gods descended
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: to the earth and cohabited with human species and to
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: some extent commingled with the human species. And that it
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: was during this time that, that, knowledge was transferred and
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: that great cities were built. This was, of course, this
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: is where the myth of Atlantis falls into this category.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: And then their world was suddenly and catastrophically destroyed. And
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: what we've been doing since that destruction in the mind
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: of the ancients, what they've been doing since that destruction
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: was attempting to rebuild, to rediscover the lost knowledge from
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: that age, to recover it and to Try and emulate
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: their superior ancestors. That's what you see everywhere, everywhere around
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: the world. It doesn't matter if you're in Egypt or
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: if you're in Peru. You see the same sort of thing.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: The same thing applies, by the way, for the megaliths
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: in Peru. I don't know if you've– have you been
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: to Peru? Some of the most astounding megaliths that you'll
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: see anywhere in the world. I referenced earlier the walls
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: of Sacsayhuaman, absolutely phenomenal, cyclopean architecture. And of course, the
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: construction of those walls is attributed to the Inca. So
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: if you ask– archaeologists in Peru who built Sacsayhuaman, who
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: built Machu Picchu, who built Ollantaytambo, it's always going to
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: be the same answer, the Inca. The Inca built it. Now,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: the problem is there's no record of the Inca building
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: those walls. And if you ask the ancient Quechua people,
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: if you ask actually the Quechua people, the Quechua people
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: who continue in their ancient traditions, the ones who are
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: there today, and they still wear their.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: They're typical vestments and they still speak Quechua. If you
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: talk to them and you ask them who built the
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: walls of Sacsayhuaman, specifically Sacsayhuaman, they'll tell you a race
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: of giants. This goes back to those, you know, our progenitors,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: the giants. The giants built Sacsayhuaman. If you go up
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: to Tiricaca, Lake Tiricaca, and you ask the Aymara people
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: who built Tiwanaku, which is On the other side at
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: Lake Titicaca in Bolivia, who built those megalithic edifices? The giants,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: our progenitors. That's what they'll tell you. So– and I
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: don't necessarily think that giants built all this stuff. I
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: don't necessarily think that at all. I just think that
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: there's– everyone is acknowledging that something extraordinary happened in the past,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: that our antecedents were much more impressive than we've given
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: them credit for. I mean our antediluvian antecedents and that–
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: That in many cases, like you said, there's no inscriptions
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: on megalithic stuff anywhere. You go to Machu Picchu, and
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: it's apparent that in Sacsayhuama, Machu Picchu, Ollantaytambo, and other
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: places in Peru, it's apparent that the Incas certainly built
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: on top. And they took advantage of these megalithic foundations, right?
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: Anyone would. I mean, if you're going to build an edifice,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: you would use the superior foundations here, massive stones, and
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: you'd build on top. And you try to emulate that
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: style of building. because it's anti-seismic for one thing. So
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: Machu Picchu, it's evident to me, and I think anybody
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: who walks around that complex, you can see, and we
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: have to keep in mind that much of Machu Picchu
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: today is a reconstruction. It's an archaeological reconstruction, except for
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: the foundations. We have pictures from Hiram Bingham, original pictures
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: in black and white of what Machu Picchu looked like
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: when he discovered it accidentally. And What's there? The megalithic
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: foundations are there. That's what's there, the megalithic foundations. And
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: the Inca built on top of those foundations. And that's
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: what a lot of the archaeological reconstruction today reflects. So
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: if you walk around in Machu Picchu, I remember I've
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: been there several times filming and doing different things. And
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: I remember one time I was with my colleague Anselm P. Romblin.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: We had a guide with us. And he was an
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: older gentleman, very, very knowledgeable. And he was one of
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: their official guides in Machu Picchu. And we're walking around
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: and he's telling us different things about the Inca and
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: how they did certain things. And certainly the Inca built
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: a lot up there. There's no question about it. The
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: Inca were impressive. I'm not taking anything away from the Inca.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: But if you look at some of the edifices at
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: Machu Picchu, you can see these magnificent megalithic foundations, big stones, polygonal,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: fit together so tightly you couldn't pass a butter knife
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: between the joints. And then you have on top, but
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: sometimes people describe as Inca slop, on top, where it's
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: like they're kind of trying to match the style of below,
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: but it's not as precise, it's not as fine. And
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: you can see the clear delineation, clear delineation between the
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: megalithic and then what the Inca are doing, and then
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: also the archaeological reconstruction. And I remember asking this guide
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: of ours, I pointed across the courtyard to some beautiful,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: this exquisite polygonal foundational wall, with just sort of crude
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: Inca stuff on top. And I said, why are there
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: two different styles here? Why do you see these large
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: megalithic blocks fit together so precisely, and then you have
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: this other style? And keeping in mind the archaeological reconstruction,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: but there was enough of the site there that they
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: could model what they did based on what the Inca
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: had done. And he said, because they liked the way
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: it looked. That was the answer. They liked the way
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: it looked. And I said, you can't really believe that.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're not an idiot, right? They didn't do
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: that because they liked the way it looked. The reason
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: why there's an inferior mode of building on top of
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: those megalithic foundations is because they didn't know how to
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: do that. They did the best they could, and they
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: were very good at attempting to adopt the Cyclopean style.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: They were good, the Inca. But the only reason you
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: would do that The only reason you would put inferior
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: architecture on top of superior foundations is because you don't
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: know how to do that.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also just the sheer size of these blocks.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: It gives you so many questions because it's not like
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: you could recreate that with whatever the Inca had. That's
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: what's confusing. In order to move those stones into position
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: and then Put them and construct them in a way
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: that it appears like they've been melted into place.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: You're– like how? How are you moving them? How are
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: you placing them?
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 4: What do you use?
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: You should go to Ollantaytambo. Okay. So you go to Ollantaytambo,
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: which is in between Cusco and Machu Picchu. You have
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: to go to Ollantaytambo to get on the train to
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: go up to Machu Picchu. It's the only way to
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: get there. And Ollantaytambo has some of the most exquisite
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: megalithic architecture on planet Earth. It is so beautiful the
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: way that they were able to– and it's large megalithic blocks.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: And there's two different styles represented there. You have the
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: polygonal like at the walls of Sacsayhuaman in Peru. And
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: then you have the interlocking blocks like at Tiwanaku. Both
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: of those styles are there. And there's this one spot
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: at Ollantaytambo that I love to take people to because
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: you're going up the stairs and the wall curves. As
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: you're going up the stairs, the wall curves. Now, if
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: you and I were building a wall today, even if
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: we were like the best– we were the best masons
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: in the world and we're building a wall for– I
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: don't know, for some billionaire in his house. We would
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: interlock the blocks in the corner like everyone does everywhere, right?
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: Or if it's cement, you could take cement because cement
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: is pliable and you could make whatever shape you want.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: But if it's blocks, you're going to interlock the blocks
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: into that corner or do something like that. You know
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: what they did on Jante Tambo? They– They curved the
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: stone into the wall. They curved the stone. So they
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: took the stone.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: Is there images of that that we can look at
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: right now?
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can pull up stones like that. And they
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: cut the stone so that it curved into the corner.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: Who would do that? That is so intricate. That is
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: so difficult.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: And by what technology?
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: By what technology? But here's the interesting thing. You find
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: the same fingerprints of these builders all over the world.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: You find the same thing in Egypt, right? They curve stones.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: Some of those stones are curved into the corners and
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: other places where there's megalithic constructions. I mean, these guys,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: there is like a ubiquitous knowledge of masonry in the world.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: The fingerprint is everywhere, everywhere you go. And it's interesting
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: because one of the things I was trying to convince
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: this guide of ours at Machu Picchu this one time
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: of was, look, Here's a problem. You guys come over
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: to Machu Picchu.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: So, here it is.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: So, yeah. That's Sacsayhuaman.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 4: Is that what you're talking about, though?
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: A curved stone?
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: No, I'm talking about a stone that's curved. See that
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: there where it says Inca stonework?
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: In the middle.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right there. Yeah, at Sacsayhuaman, they'll take a large stone.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: That one looks like it's curved, too, in the wall,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: but that's not a very large stone. At Sacsayhuaman, they'll
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: take a large stone, and they'll curve it into the wall.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: I don't see Sacsayhuaman in any of those. You have
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: to type. I'm sorry, not Sacsayhuaman. Ojantaytambo. Ojantaytambo.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: How do you spell it?
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: O-L-L-A-N-T. O-L-L-A-N-T-A-Y-T-A-M-B-O.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: O-L-L.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: O-L-L-A-N-T-A-Y-T-A-M-B-O.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: Never going to guess that.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 3: Whoa.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: That's Ojantaytambo. And I'm looking for that curved.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: What is the nubs? What are the nubs? I don't know.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: There's another fingerprint of this architecture. All over the world. Everywhere.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: No one really knows. I mean, there's a lot of
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: interesting theories out there. But I think at the end
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: of the day, nobody has any idea what the heck
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: those nubs are.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: Those things are so spectacular. Look at that construction.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: Look at the wall right there at Ollantaytambo. Look how
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: exquisite that is.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: That's nuts.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is just absolutely astonishing.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: And the weight. The weight of these things.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: And the fact that they're carved and placed in a
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: way that would absorb the energy of earthquakes. Yes.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: They're anti-seismic.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: They're anti-seismic. That's why they do it that way. Which
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: is incredible technology. Now, I want you to think about this.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: Think about this, okay? So you are with friends. Pizarro.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: You're a conquistador in 1533 or 1532 or 1534. I
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: can't remember exactly when he landed. And you're walking through
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: Peru and you see this. You see this kind of
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: architecture as you're conquering Peru. You overthrow the Inca, and
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: then you go to build, which they did. They overthrew
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: the Inca. The capital city of Cusco, they go to
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: build their cathedrals. They built lots of cathedrals and palaces
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: for themselves, right? So you have the Inca palaces and cathedrals.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: They took the blocks from Sacsayhuaman. They took the upper
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: layer blocks, and they used them to build their cathedral.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: There's a couple of cathedrals downtown Cusco that were built
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: with the blocks from Sacsayhuaman. They didn't build it like that.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: They didn't build their cathedrals like that. They took those
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: blocks and they just put them together with mortar like
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: they do in Europe. So here's a question that I
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: always ask people who think that, you know, the Inca
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: were doing that. If you were an architect at that time,
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: why in the world wouldn't you have forced the Inca
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: to teach you that style? So that you could build
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: your cathedral. I mean, you would be the greatest architect
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: in the world, right? Right. You could build the most
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: magnificent cathedrals in the world in the Cyclopean style if
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: you understood how they did it. So if the Inca
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: were the ones who built it, why didn't they force
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: the Inca to teach them how.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: To build in this style? Just look at that. That
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: is so crazy.
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 4: That's clearly sanded down, right?
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: Well, those are in the process. That's Ojantaytambo. That's the
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: Temple of the Sun at the summit.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 4: The faces of it look so smooth.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: That's Ojantaytambo, and this was in the process of being
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: constructed at the top when it halted. You can see
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: the blocks there. Those blocks that you were just looking
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: at were in the process of— So something happened. Yes.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: Those blocks were in the process of being transported, and
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: they were being worked right there. They were being prepped
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: to be incorporated into the walls. And it just halted.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: And the conventional explanation is that it halted because the
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: Spanish arrived. That's what halted the work. But I think
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: what halted the work was cataclysm, personally. I think that's
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: what halted the work. Something like a Younger Drives impact.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: What's that, Jimmy?
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 3: See, right here, it looks like the face of the wall,
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: you know? Like, it looks like it's all uniform and
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: fits together, right?
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 4: But if that right here is part of the wall.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's filler in the backing.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 4: Then that's like.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they have filler in the backing. Some of them... Yeah,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: some of them, the blocks, it's just gigantic blocks. Others,
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: it's like the facade is exquisite and tightly fitted.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 3: Like what we have here, that brick in the background
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 3: used to just be brick at the other studio.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 4: Uh-huh.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: Kind of like that. Right, right.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: I know what you're saying. Yeah, but except these are enormous.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 4: Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Or, I don't know.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 4: Hardened in place and sanded down.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, there is a point of the guy standing. There
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: is a picture of the guy standing in the corner.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: There's a guy standing in the corner that I was
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: referencing earlier. There it is, right there, that guy.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: No, the one below it.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think you can see the corner very well.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: That right there, the middle?
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: See the guy in the blue standing there?
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right there.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: Behind him, you can see how the stone below him,
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: it's curved into the corner. That's not a separate stone.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: It's literally curved into that corner. It's just so weird.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: It's my bending.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: The nubs are weird.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: They are weird.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: And it's weird that they occur all over the world.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: And it's like, it speaks almost to like, Is that
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: how they carried them and placed them? Is that a
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: part of the construction? Is that something about how they
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: made them that they left these nubs? Like what are
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: the nubs?
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: No one has any idea what the nubs are.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: That seems so weird that we have no answer to
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: a feature that occurs over and over again in all
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: this megalithic architecture.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 4: All over the world. They keep showing these three. Those nubs.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 4: They kind of look like the nubs, but they look
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 4: way different.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're a lot rougher.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: See those smaller pieces of stone there in between the
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: large blocks? That's an anti-seismic property. That's a technology that
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: they use so that the rocks can shift and move
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: and not crumble. It's ingenious. And like I said, you
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: have two different styles here at Ojantaytambo. You have the polygonal,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: and then you have the interlocking rectangular. Those are two
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: different styles in the same site. That's one of the
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: things that makes Ollantaytambo fascinating. And that rectangular interlocking style
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: comes from Tiwanaku, which is another amazing megalithic site in Bolivia.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: What's interesting is when you combine all these sites all
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: over the world and you have all these questions that
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: are very similar, like how? How did they do this?
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: Why is this stuff the oldest stuff? Why is this
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: stuff the bottom stuff? Why is the base of it
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: the most spectacular construction ever? And why does it seem
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: like more primitive stuff is on top of that?
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: Because they like the way it looked. Yeah.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: But it's the same question over and over again. And
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: the reluctance to propose that perhaps the oldest stuff is
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: more complicated because the civilization was more complex.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: That's what they're unwilling to– That's it. They're unwilling to
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: open up that door. But that door is the only
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: door that makes any sense.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: Not only was the civilization complex, the knowledge was universal.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: That's a problem.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: That is a problem.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: The knowledge was universal.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: Because that means you're talking about a seafaring, traveling civilization.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: You're talking about something that's a lot more impressive than cavemen, right? Right.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: Especially if this guy, this Italian guy is right in
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: terms of his– because 20,000 BC, we're supposed to be
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: just brutes. Oh, yeah.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 3: Cavemen.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: Skin wearing. Yeah. We're wearing animal skins.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: We have spears. Spears.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: You're a chimpanzee with a better brain back then. And
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: as I said before, you look at that kind of architecture,
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: and you and I were we to encounter the Inca.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: Go back in time, in the late 1500s. The Inca
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: are still around. The builders, the alleged builders of these monuments,
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, they were building Ollantaytambo, right? When you arrived,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: they quit buildings. Why did the Spanish architects not incorporate
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: any of that into their buildings?
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: Why did they not learn the techniques?
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: That's superior technology. That's anti-seismic. And the point is illustrated
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: because in Cusco, they built their cathedrals, right? They knocked
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: down the palaces of the Inca and they raised the
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: cathedrals in Cusco. And guess what happens? You get a
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: big earthquake. The cathedrals crumble to the ground. except for
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: their megalithic foundations, which remain unmoved. Earthquake comes, cathedrals fall,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: the walls of Sacsayhuaman stand. And it's happened various times
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: throughout history. Who, what architect would not have taken advantage
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: of that knowledge had it been available to them during
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: the time of the Inca?
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, like I said, you could build the most
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: magnificent cathedrals on planet Earth, and you could make the
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: Inca build it for you. And now you can say
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: that the Inca refused would have refused to pass this
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: knowledge on. Okay, maybe. I mean, there was a, there
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: was a society within the Inca. You know, they were
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: taught by the Grandes Almaltas, they called them, who were
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: the great teachers of the Inca nobility and the keepers
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: of the secrets and so forth. They had, the Inca
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: didn't even have a written language. They used quipus. Quipus
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: was a, it's a system of ropes and knots, of
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: string and knots. They didn't even have a written language. So,
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: absolutely extraordinary. And there is, nobody can, It gives me
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: an adequate explanation as to why such amazing knowledge is
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: just forgotten. I mean, would we forget how to build computers? No.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: So why would we just forget how to build megaliths?
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: That's not something you forget. These things don't fall down
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: in earthquakes. That's something you pass on carefully from one
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: generation to the next. Unless, like our ancient antecedents tell us,
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: there was a cataclysm. That rocked the earth and eliminated
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: the civilizations that were inhabiting the earth. That's– to me,
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: that's the best explanation.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: Well, it's certainly the most logical explanation if you weren't
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: attached to a timeline. If you didn't have this timeline
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: that these archaeologists insist upon, then you would say, OK,
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: clearly we know that a cataclysm occurred. Clearly we know
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: the Younger Dryas impact theory is accepted and especially now.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: So– Becoming more so over time.
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: More likely. Yeah. Much more likely that there was something
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: going on that we don't totally understand tens of thousands
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: of years ago. Yeah.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: I mean I think we would do very well to listen,
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: to take serious the myths and legends.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also weird that like the Aztecs– like I
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: used to think that the Aztecs created those temples and
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: those pyramids. And then I found out fairly recently that
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: they never even claimed to have– they say they found
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: them and that these were the birthplace of the gods. Yes.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: See, that's what I was going to say about Machu Picchu.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: So you know what the name of Machu Picchu is?
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: It's not Machu Picchu. In Quechua, it's Ijampu. And Ijampu
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: means the abode of the gods or the dwelling of
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: the gods. This is how they viewed the megaliths. I
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: mean this is how– if we were primitive people coming
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: upon these megalithic structures, what would we think? The gods
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: must have done this the gods lived here and so
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: then we would rebuild we would re-inhabit the habitation of
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: the gods.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah why would you live anywhere else if you could
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: live there right and it would be the noblest architecture
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: you've ever imagined exactly why would you let some idiots
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: take it over you wouldn't give me that that's mine
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't yeah of course You know, there's also the
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: weirdness of Peru, like the Nazca lines. Like what the
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: hell is all that about?
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. That's a great mystery.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of weirdness to Peru.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of weirdness in Peru.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: And how about those– the ancient tapestries that show those three-fingered, three-toed,
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: big-headed people with big eyes and it's ubiquitous. And these
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: are 1,000 years old.
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: Then you have the Paracas culture, those massive– elongated skulls.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: In the Paracas culture, by the way, people see these
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: elongated skulls online. I've been in Paracas a lot. I've
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: done a lot of research down there on the Paracas
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: culture and other things. Made some interesting discoveries, by the way,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: with our drone, with our GPR unit. But you see
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: these images online and you think that the Paracas people,
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: their skulls are so large and elongated, you think these
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: must have been big people, right? That's what it looks like.
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: They were tiny skulls. They were really little. They were bizarre.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: The morphology of their body was different than ours.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: Tiny with big heads?
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: Yes. The Paracas people were very small. And they had
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: a proclivity to live underground. They had subterranean dwellings. And
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: their eye sockets of some of these elongated skulls, the
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: eye sockets are like 25% larger, the orbital socket. So
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: they had big eyes, elongated skulls. very diminutive people, in
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: some cases living underground.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: I've heard people have theories about Neanderthals, that Neanderthals with
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: larger eye sockets as well might have been able to
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: see at night, like the way deer can and the
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: way other animals that are nocturnal can see at night,
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: that they have a different kind of eye structure. Obviously,
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: we don't know what the eye structure was. But if
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: you have a significantly larger eye socket, It's going to
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: gather more light. A significantly larger eyeball. We know that
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: nocturnal vision exists in cats and exists in a bunch
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: of different animals. But the idea of it existing in primates,
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: we kind of dismiss that.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: I mean a bigger eye gathers more light.
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: So it's a nocturnal feature.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: Not only that, we have no idea what the soft
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: tissue structure of their eyes was like.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: No. No.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: Now, granted, for all the skeptics out there, yes– many
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: of the elongated skulls in Peru and other places around
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: the world are the result of cranial deformation. So yes,
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: they were deforming their skulls with headboarding, cradle headboarding and
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: binding and so forth. There's evidence of that. And you
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: can see the evidence when you're there, if you know
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: what you're looking for on the skulls. But I don't
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: believe that that explains all of the elongated skulls, not
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: just in Peru, other parts of the world, but especially
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: in Peru. There are some examples of elongated skulls that
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, look like a genetic alteration is the best
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: way I can say it. So there's a– and you
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: can pull this up, Jamie, if you can find it.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: There's a mummy. I'm trying to think of the name
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: of the museum where it's housed. I think it's the
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: San Marcos Museum. in Lima. There's a mummy, the first
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: mummy that was discovered by Julio Tejo. Julio Tejo, or
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: one of the first, if not the first, Julio Tejo
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: was the eminent archaeologist that discovered the Paracas culture. And
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 2: he's like their greatest archaeologist in Peru, was a phenomenal archaeologist.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: And he discovered all kinds of things about the Paracas culture.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: And he dug up this mummy. And it is the
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: most bizarre mummy I've ever seen in my life. It
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: has a massive elongated skull. Massive.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: We showed a few of those the other day when
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: Cassie Coppersmith was on. We showed a few of these
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: ones that don't have the sagittal suture. They're weird. Just
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: the actual structure of the skull is different.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: But this one has the skin on it. Except for
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: part of the face is gone. But it's got the
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: skin on it. You can actually see what this skull
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: looked like with the skin on it. And then the
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: morphology of the body is just weird. I mean, I
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: think it's in the Museum of... recall the museum of
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: San Marcos in Lima. Um, so these are, how tall
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: were these things? Oh, they were small. I mean, we're
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: talking four foot tall.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: These guys were little giant heads and four feet tall.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They're little. Everyone thinks they were big. No, no, no.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: They were little. Some of them. I mean, I think
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: they were four and a half, maybe averaged four to
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: four and a half feet tall, somewhere in there. They
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: were very small. Um, Maybe from four to five feet tall.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: I don't remember. But they're significantly– they're very small. They're
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: diminutive people.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 4: You're also telling me which one it is. I don't know.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 4: I've never seen one with skin on it. It's not
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 4: really popping anything.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: That one's nuts.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: The one that Brian Forster is looking at.
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: Right here?
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: Right there, yeah. That right there is just absolutely bizarre.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: When you look at– take a look at the– look
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: at how tall that forehead is on that. There's skin
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: on there. Very well-preserved skin. And if you look around
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: the back, you can't see it here in this image,
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: but if you look around the back side of it,
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: the neck is very bizarre. It's sort of– it's curved.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: That is so weird.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: I mean imagine coming upon somebody here in Austin that
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: has a skull like that.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 4: There might be a few of them here.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: Right. I mean that does not look like cranial deformation.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: That looks like a totally different kind of head.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: It looks like a genetic anomaly. Yeah.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: What is that one in the middle? Yeah, what is
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: that one?
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 4: Jeez.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's all kinds of very interesting specimens like that.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: And as you said, Peru is a very, very strange place.
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: The one on the far left is the craziest one
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: It's a chongo skull. That one was discovered at the
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: Chongos necropolis.
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: Like what the hell is that? I mean, just the
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: volume of the brain is so much larger than a
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: human being.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: That picture might be elongated. You know, someone might have
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: altered that picture. It is very impressive. That one might
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: be elongated. Um, the picture, I mean, right.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: That's more like it, but.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 2: The skull, the, these skulls, many of these skulls that's
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: in the museum of Ica and the city of Ica
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: in Peru.
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: That's absolutely insane.
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: These skulls, the, the, Chongo's skull was taken from the
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: Chongo's necropolis. If you go over to the Chongo's necropolis today,
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: which is on the desert, you see these things sticking
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: out of the ground. And they got red hair, auburn hair.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: And we were over there with our crew, and there's
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: a pyramid there. But it's an adobe pyramid. And it's
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: called the Chongo's pyramid. And nobody really goes to this
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: area because it's sort of off the beaten path. It's
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: not well known. We were actually working in an area
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: further down the road because at the time we were
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: looking for treasure. We were filming like a TV show,
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: looking for treasure. And there was this pond that has
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: a very interesting UFO story attached to it further up
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 2: the road. And so we were working up there. But
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: every day when we drive by the pyramid, the Chongos Pyramid,
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: and it's an adobe pyramid. So it's not super impressive.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: It's made of large adobe blocks. But it was a
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: large urban center. Some people think it was the capital
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: of the Paracas culture. Very large urban center. And it
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 2: was a necropolis. There's tons of remains. And the elongated skull,
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: some of these Paracas people, the nobility for sure, they
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: were buried in burial bundles. And they're in the fetal position.
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: And these burial bundles are usually layers of fabric. And
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: there's various items in there. And they're just under the
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: surface of the sand. They're right there. And you get
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of grave robbers, huaqueros, who go in there
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: and steal all kinds of artifacts and stuff. But we're
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: driving by. I looked at the pyramid and I thought,
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: I have this intuition. There's a tunnel under that pyramid.
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: There's a tunnel system under that pyramid.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know why.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: I just had this intuition. So we decided to go
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: over there one day and fly our our GPR drone
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: around the pyramid. And we did a, uh, we, we,
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: we did an extensive run around that pyramid. We did
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: like a cross configuration with the drone to make sure
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: that we get a good reading. And we found two
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: massive artificial tunnels under the pyramid that intersect a hundred
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: feet below that pyramid. Matt, you could drive a semi
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: truck through them and we don't know how far they go,
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: but they go. And we actually spent some time trying
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: to find a way into them. We couldn't, we ran
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: out of time. Um, But it's remarkable because Julio Tejo
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: remarks in his writing about the Paracas culture that the
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: Paracas people seem to have an affinity for living under
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: the ground. They had subterranean dwellings. And I've explored some
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: of these subterranean dwellings out in the Paracas reserve. And
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: they're really cool because they– you'll see like these hills.
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: They look like– They look like longhouses that are buried
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: in the ground. So you see like this elongated hill.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: And really what it is is it's whale bones. They
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: use like the vertebrae of a whale. So you got
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: whale bones. And then they would pack on top all
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: kinds of, they would pack on earth, but then they
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: would also add in organic material. And it would create
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: like an insulating effect and heat the interior. But they
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: were subterranean. So what you see are the roofs of
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: the dwellings. And then they went down into the ground.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: And there were tunnels and there was all kinds of stuff.
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: This is where these weird people with the elongated skulls
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: were living. What the fuck? It's absolutely bizarre.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: How old are these mummies?
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 2: I think the Prakas culture, oh, geez, it goes back
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: maybe to, I don't remember, 200 B.C. or something like that.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: I can't remember. Maybe not that far back. I really
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: don't remember. That can't be accurate. I think it goes
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: back to definitely to the first century A.D. I don't remember.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: So the question is, what happened?
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: Where did those people go?
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: That's the question. I mean, I think that the prevailing
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: theory is that they became the Nazca people, that they
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: didn't go anywhere, that essentially the Nazca people were the
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 2: Paracas people.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: Like they interbred?
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: No, that the culture just sort of migrated and became
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: the Nazca people.
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: So what happened to those genetic features?
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: Well, there are some among the Nazca, but not as
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: much as among the Paracas. Others think that the Paracas,
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: they just disappeared. Like they were either exterminated or there's
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 2: multiple theories. But there's no question that they were bizarre. Bizarre.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: And there's physical evidence of this. Like we're talking about
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: the mummies before– excuse me, the giants before. And we
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: know it's just stories. This is actual physical evidence.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: You mean the elongated skulls? Yes.
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: They're everywhere down there. Now, granted, as I said before,
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: many of them are the result of cranial deformation.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: But what about these motherfuckers?
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 4: They're not all elongated.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah. How do you elongate that? You get
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: a balloon in someone's head?
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: I've seen some really big heart-shaped heads. That is so strange.
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: Imagine meeting that guy.
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: That's small compared to some of the ones I've seen.
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: Some of the ones I've seen look like a heart.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: Really big. And actually that particular skull was exceptionally large
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 2: when I saw that.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 4: It looked like a heart.
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so just keep in mind, yes, cranial deformation is.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: What, Jamie?
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 3: It says that these two in the front left row
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 3: are from the billow bait. And now I don't know
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 3: what the hell that means.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: Billow bait?
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what the picture says.
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: What does that mean? Do you know what that means?
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it says the two skulls from the front are
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 4: from the billow bait.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: Bro.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 4: It's italicized.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: Look at that. They are billow bait. I don't know
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: what that means.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: Look at that one on the left in the middle.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: Those are nuts. That is just, imagine meeting that cat.
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: And here's the other question.
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: Look at the size of his eyes.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: Here's the other question, though. Why bind the head?
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: And this is, as you know, all over the world.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: They do it in Africa. Native Americans, the flathead tribe
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: up in Montana, they're called the flathead because they would cradleboard.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 2: They're young and they get these flat, they would have
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 2: these very distinct skulls. So why?
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: Why are all these sculptures.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: Doing– they're emulating something. Who or what are they emulating?
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: That's the question. And, of course, you have in ancient Egypt,
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: you have figures with elongated skulls like Nefertiti and her
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: daughters who are depicted with very pronounced elongated skulls. Now,
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: is that just the result of credo headboarding?
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 4: Probably.
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know. But why do that?
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: Well, the problem is some of these skulls have actual
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: larger volume than a human skull.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: That's true. Some of them do.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: That's where it gets really weird.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: So if you have 20%, 30%, even 40% more volume,
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: which is like, okay. 40% more brain is nuts. What
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: does that mean?
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 4: There's a slight explanation for what we were just looking up.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 4: It's got to do with male and female.
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: So it says bilobate, that thing you were talking about.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: Tubular erect was the most common among both sexes. Bilobate
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: skulls were observed at a much higher rate in female skulls.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: This association with sex has evidence in some Paracas ceramics
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: where men and women are depicted with distinctly tubular erect
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: or bile bait heads, respectively.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 4: And then it even goes into this.
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: So the bile bait is then the heart shape.
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: Fucking weird, man.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: It is weird. It is extremely weird. And then, of course,
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: you have those, you know, the alleged alien mummies down there.
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think about those? Because there's a
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: lot of people now that are saying that those are
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: elaborate hoaxes.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: I went down to Peru. I was invited to go
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: down there by– Dr. Roger Zuniga, or Professor Roger Zuniga,
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: to go down and look at the specimens that they
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: have at the Ica Museum. They have four specimens at
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: the Ica Museum. The most impressive specimen that they have
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: there is called Maria. And Maria's in the fetal position.
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: She's one of the larger mummies. Then they have a
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: few other ones. They have two of the small ones,
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: the ones that Jaime Massan famously revealed over there in
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: Mexico during that thing that he did over there, that
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: press thing. And And then you have one that's called Wauwita,
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: which seems to be like some kind of a combination
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: of different things. And so I went down there to
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: the university and walked up to these things. And at first,
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: I have to say, my first impression of Maria, I
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 2: didn't really care about the little ones. I never believed
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: that the little ones were ever— Right, the little ones
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: look squirrely. Yeah, I never believed that they were living
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 2: organic beings. They're very rigid.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they look fake.
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 2: They're very rigid. I don't think that, you know, like
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: their morphology really could have worked in the real world.
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: Like Montserrat, like that one.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: Montserrat and Maria and there's a bunch of them. Those
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: are very compelling when you're standing next to them looking
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: at them. They were compelling. So I looked at the
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 2: mummies and then I interviewed Roger Zuniga. And he's very,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: very convinced that they're 100 percent real. Sincerely. I mean,
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: I like it. Professor Zuniga. And he really is convinced.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's not trying to perpetrate some kind
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: of a hoax. Neither is anybody at the University of Ica.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: There's a good faith effort going on there to try
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: and investigate this and continually do testing. And it's an
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 2: open field.
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: Have they done genetic testing?
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've done all kinds of testing. So what do
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: they find? Here's the problem. There's been a lot of
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 2: testing done, but I don't think the interpretation of the
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: data has been competent. And so initially I was pretty impressed.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: I thought it was more likely than not. I even
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: said this on the Michael Knowles show that it was
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 2: more likely than not in my mind that the larger
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: mummies like Maria were real. But I've since reversed that position.
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's more likely than not that all of
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: them are a hoax. That's my personal opinion. And this
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 2: is a hot topic, you know, like on X and stuff.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who are absolutely sincerely convinced
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: that these things are real. The problem is that this
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: entire thing started with a grave robber, a very shady individual.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: And the very first mummies that were brought forward were hoaxes,
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 2: were fake. That's how it started. And, you know, this
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 2: is a whole saga we don't have to get into.
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: But it started with fakes. It started with a hoax.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: And then they, you know, then allegedly they started to
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: produce the real ones. And I just have a hard
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 2: time believing that this is an elaborate hoax. Now, I've
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: talked to some of the individuals who've done some of
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: the scientific work on these. They don't want me to
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: mention their names or anything. They're trying to just sort
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: of stay neutral. They don't want the press. And they
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 2: also doubt that they're real. They think they're really, really
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: elaborate hoaxes. And I know that a lot of money
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: has exchanged hands in regard to these things. Maria was
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: up for sale for a million dollars at one point. And,
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're a Peruvian grave robber, a million
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: dollars is like a billion dollars. I mean, so that's–
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: to me, that's– Can we see what the Maria one
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: looks like? That's not– that casts a lot of shade
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 2: on the whole thing for me.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: Now, I can't say scientifically– The DNA data, this, that,
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 2: the other. But there's a lot of debate going back
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 2: and forth on this thing.
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I think one of the problems is anatomists, experts
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: in anatomy have looked at the structure of the feet
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: and the hands and they– it doesn't seem to jive
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: with what they understand about the structure of feet.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: That the bones are not in the proper position. They're
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: not the proper size. It doesn't look like it makes sense. Right. Damn,
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: that's amazing.
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: That's Maria.
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: Like here's the thing. If it is a hoax, like
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: what an amazing job they did.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe the greatest hoax ever perpetrated in the history
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: of archaeology.
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: Like who did it? Like what talent this person has?
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 3: There's a new note because this website, this is the tridactyls.org.
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: It got updated.
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 4: There's a little note that popped up.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 3: It says they have ongoing research that just got updated.
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: This is a great website.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: What is the ongoing research?
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 4: There's more videos on here than I've ever seen before.
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: Maria might be Mario. Yeah, Mario.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: They call him Mario now.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: To dude. Maybe he's non-binary.
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 4: A bunch more data down here. I don't know what
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 4: all this stuff is.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 4: A bunch more data.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: That's a great resource there.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: So it's Tridactyls.org.
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 2: Tridactyls.org.
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: Go to the images of it again. Go down like
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: right there. So this– okay, this is a 3D scan.
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, these are all scans. These are videos of the scans.
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: Fucking weird, man. Look at the length also of the
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: fingers and the toes. But you think that's a hoax?
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, people say that wouldn't work.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I.
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: What did you say, Jamie?
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 3: People said that you can't grab stuff. There's pictures down
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 3: here they have of people trying to grab stuff with...
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 3: I might have been looking at a different... Yeah, I
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 3: was looking at this. These are the fingers.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 4: They wouldn't bend or something like that. It's hard to.
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 3: Like this person trying to grab stuff with long fingers
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 3: without bendable appendages, I guess.
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 1: Well, we're assuming that they had to grab things.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 4: Well, what would you have fingers for?
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 1: Well, maybe they put them on a spaceship. That's how
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: they pilot it. Maybe they've gone past the idea of
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: picking things up. Maybe they lift things with their mind.
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's how they move the blocks into place.
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: I'm more convinced than not that they're a hoax. I
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: can't say definitively.
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would lean in that direction because I want
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: them to be real. But also, whoever did hoax them,
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: like Monsterod, whoever hoaxed that, like what an amazing job
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: you guys did. And also there's some of them that
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: have weird implants in their heads.
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: They have metal implants. Yeah. A couple of them have
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: them in the hand. Others have them in the forehead.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: Very weird stuff.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 2: Some of them have fetuses apparently, although there's some dispute
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 2: about that. They say the fetuses look like– that they
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: look the same as the adults, which would be remarkable
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: if true. But that's disputed. Everything is disputed.
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: I mean there's a factional battle here between the– The
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 2: believers and the naysayers.
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: And they're both looking at the same data, interpreting it differently.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: So that's why I just sort of stand back and say,
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I can tell you how
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: it started. It started with grave robbers, very seedy people.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: And it started– the initial ones were not real. I
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 2: know that because I know the individuals who were involved
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: in that whole thing. So– Just out alone.
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Just that alone.
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: But then how did they make the skin? How did
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: they cover it? How did they make it look like that?
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 2: They're really good. I mean, you know, if you were
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: selling these things for hundreds of thousands, if you're making $ 100, 000,
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 2: just $ 100, 000 on one of these mummies and you're a
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 2: poor grave robber, you would do anything. Take whatever time,
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: whatever it took to produce one of these to sell
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: it to make $ 100, 000. But haven't they aged them like
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 2: and they're really old? They harvest the pieces from the graves.
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 2: From the Nazca and Baracus graves.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: So they construct this somehow from really old skeletons, pieced
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: it together.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: That's the allegation. And also from old llamas and stuff
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the other weird things about these elongated
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: heads is that they have– where it connects to the
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 1: spine is in a different position than a human skull.
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, there is some indication of that. That's why I
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 2: was pointing out on that, the one with the skin
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 2: on it. There is a very interesting morphology where the
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: neck where it connects into the spinal cord. Now, I'm
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: not an expert on anatomy. I don't know. All I
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: can look at it and say is that's freaking weird.
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: Really? Really weird.
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: It is weird. I always just remind people, you can
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: argue about all the dad all day long, but if
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: one of those people walked into this room right now.
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't just be a little weird. Right. It would
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: be utterly bizarre.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. An actual real human mummy or whatever it is, mummy,
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 1: if that was alive today, it would freak you out.
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 2: Larger orbital sockets, very small, extremely elongated head.
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 2: It would freak you out.
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 1: It just makes you wonder, like, what was the world
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 1: like back then? What were these people like then? Was
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: there a separate branch of the human species?
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think– I'm pretty sure now I'm
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 2: recalling the date, 2,000, 2,500 BC. Somewhere around there is
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 2: where the Prakash culture goes back to. And then it–
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: I think it existed until 700 AD. I'm not sure
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 2: that those numbers are accurate, but that's what I remember.
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of weird stuff in Peru.
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: A lot of weird stuff in just ancient history in particular.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: What do you make of– like things like Zep Tepi
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: and the Sumerian kings list where you go back in
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: time and you have these incredible ages of some of
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: these rulers that ruled for thousands of years.
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: Well, what's really interesting is that if you overlay the
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 2: Sumerian kings list with the list of patriarchs, pre-flood patriarchs
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: in Genesis 5, it's like a one-to-one match. So I'm
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: not convinced that I think that the Sumerian Kings list
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: is– the ages is mythological. I don't think that they
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 2: were ruling for thousands and thousands of years. I– like
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: I said, I see this very interesting overlay over the
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 2: Genesis 6 genealogy. These are the patriarchs from Adam to Noah.
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 2: And specifically, I mean these are the patriarchs who lived
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 2: before the flood. The flood came in the time of Noah.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: And– You know, there's a lot of debate right now,
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 2: especially online, and I think you've had people here on
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: your show as well, that talk about the Sumerian story
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 2: being the oldest story and being sort of the original
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: story of the flood and of the antediluvian world. But
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: I actually have a different view of that. I think
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 2: actually the oldest story is the story of Enoch. It's
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: the Enochian story. I think that's the original story. And
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 2: maybe some of this strangeness, maybe some of the bizarre
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 2: things that we see and the stories of the flood
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: and of the giants and all of that, maybe something
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 2: like the Book of Enoch is actually an accurate account
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 2: of affairs, of things that happen in the antediluvian world.
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: And certainly the writers of the biblical narrative believe that.
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, the writer of Genesis and then in the
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 2: New Testament you have references to what I call the
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: Enochian tale. And so when you think about this, the
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: antediluvian world, the cataclysm that, that destroyed it seemingly overnight,
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: the great civilizations that existed back then, um, you see a,
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 2: you see a series of, of parallels in all the stories,
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: all the ancient stories, uh, whether it be the, the,
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: the Sumerians, whether it be the, the ancient Egyptians, the, um,
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 2: the Hebrews, the Greeks, the Romans, there are parallels in
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: certain details, great civilizations inhabited the earth, or at least
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 2: a great civilization. That doesn't necessarily mean that, that they
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: had the kind of technology that we have today. Uh,
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 2: I think that's a mistake that some people make when
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 2: they're thinking about the antediluvian world and a lost civilization.
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 2: They think, well, that means that there were skyscrapers and,
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 2: and automobiles and aircraft and things like that. That's not
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 2: necessarily what it means. Um, And so I think it's very,
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: very interesting that you have all of these parallels, a cataclysm, giants.
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: You have a fratricidal war that's discussed, for example, and
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 2: you have the Vedas and some of the ancient Indian
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 2: origin stories. And another component that you find everywhere is
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: this idea that the gods descended to the earth, commingled
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: with human species, progenerated. a race of demigods, in many
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 2: accounts giants, who then govern the earth. And depending on
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 2: what version of the story you're reading, they were either
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: good guys or bad guys, leading up to the cataclysm
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 2: that destroyed everything. In the biblical account, the great flood.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 2: And other accounts record various kinds of cataclysm all over
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: the world. So the question is, I think, an intriguing
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: question is, is it true I mean, are these basic
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: constituents of these stories? Is it true? And I happen
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 2: to believe that the Book of Enoch is the beginning
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 2: of the Book of Enoch. The oldest portion of the
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 2: Book of Enoch called the Book of the Watchers is
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 2: the earliest account of the antediluvian world. And I don't
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: mean necessarily the Book of Enoch that we have today.
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 2: I mean the tradition of Enoch. Was there a manuscript
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 2: that Enoch wrote himself? Enoch was the seventh from Adam.
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 2: So he's one of those individuals on the Sumerian kings list.
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: I believe he corresponds to Endemiranki. I can't remember how
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 2: to pronounce the name, the Sumerian name. But again, you
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 2: have this overlay with the pre-flood patriarchs. You have all
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 2: of these details that correspond. Now we have evidence of cataclysms.
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 2: We're finding evidence of cataclysm, right? We talked about the
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 2: Younger Dry's impact hypothesis. So are some of the other
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 2: details true as well? Were there giants? Were there beings
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 2: who descended to the earth in the antediluvian world? Did
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: they copulate with human women? I mean, that's essentially the
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 2: story of Enoch. Enoch begins with, this is first Enoch.
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 2: Enoch begins... with a company of 200 watchers, these beings
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 2: that are designated as watchers. And they are, they're heavenly beings.
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 2: And the watcher designation is not exclusively extra biblical. You
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: find it in the book of Daniel in a very
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 2: interesting scene in which holy watchers are are judging Nebuchadnezzar,
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 2: the Babylonian king. And they sentence him to a period
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 2: of time of madness where he's given the mind of
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: a beast and he's eating grass. And this is a
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 2: judgment from the watchers. He's eating grass like an animal
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 2: and his hair grows long and he's basically like a
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: beast out in the field. The haughty king of Babylon
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 2: humbled in that way. And So the watcher designation is–
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: you find it in Daniel. But then in the book
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 2: of Enoch, it's much more specific. These were 200 of
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 2: these watchers. These are non-human celestial entities. You could describe
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 2: them as extraterrestrial entities. And they begin to lust after
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 2: the daughters of men. And they desire to progenitorate families.
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 2: They want to have families.
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 1: Do you think that this is a simplification of genetic
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: engineering and that this depiction of it is just like
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 1: the game of telephone? You're telling the old story through
• 2:19:15
  Speaker 1: oral tradition for a long period of time as it
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 1: gets relayed over time post-flood. So you get this sort
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 1: of distorted version of what the actual event was.
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 2: I think it's possible there was genetic engineering involved.
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 1: Because we certainly look different than everything else on the planet.
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 2: Well, the book of Enoch, at least the Hebrew account,
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 2: both in the book of Genesis, because there's a verse,
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 2: Genesis 6, that says, Now it came to pass that
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 2: when men began to multiply in the face of the
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 2: earth and daughters were born to them, that the sons
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 2: of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful.
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 2: And they took wives of all whom they chose. There
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 2: were giants, or Nephilim, in the earth in those days.
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 2: And also afterward, when the sons of God came into
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: the daughters of men, and they bore children to them.
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 2: These were the mighty men of old, the men of renown.
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 2: That's the reference to the origin of giants and Nephilim
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 2: in the book of Genesis. And so in the Bible,
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 2: you have these angelic beings, the sons of God, who
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 2: are lusting. They're looking down at the daughters of men.
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: They see that they're beautiful. The book of Enoch is
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 2: even more explicit. The book of Enoch says that the
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 2: angels of heaven, the watchers, lusted after the daughters of men,
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 2: and they desired to progenerate families. So they descended to
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 2: the earth on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 2: bound themselves by a pact of mutual imprecations. In other words,
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 2: we're all in this together. They knew what they were
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 2: about to do was going to be a very grave sin,
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 2: so they bind themselves with an oath. That's why Mount
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 2: Hermon has been known since time immemorial as the mountain
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: of oath. Then they descended into the plains, and they
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 2: began to choose wives from among the daughters of men
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 2: with whom to copulate. But first, these were maidens that
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 2: they intended to marry. And there was a transaction that happened.
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 2: Because in exchange for the maidens' hands in marriage, their
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 2: fathers were given technology. So the watchers taught men the
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 2: knowledge that they were already striving to learn. So there's
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: And that's implied in the text. It's not explicit, but
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 2: it's implied because the watchers give technology and they give knowledge,
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 2: which results in technology. And they get in exchange the
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 2: maidens that they desire to marry. And then they copulate
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 2: with them. They have sexual intercourse with them. The women
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 2: conceive and give birth to giants. And then these giants
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 2: begin to terrorize the earth. They're cannibalistic. They begin to
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 2: devour men.
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 1: So maybe a hybrid, sort of like a liger. You
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: know how a liger is a combination of a tiger
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: and a lion? It's much larger.
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: Very large. Yeah. But they can't reproduce.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So the result is you have these watchers, yeah,
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 2: their DNA mixed with the DNA of human women produces giants. And,
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 2: you know, this story, by the way, is attested in
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 2: the Dead Sea Scrolls, not just in the Bible, not
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 2: just in the Book of Enoch. The Book of Enoch,
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 2: of course, fragments of it were discovered among the Dead
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 2: Sea Scrolls. But you find this story in, for example,
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 2: you find it in The Book of Giants, the Book
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 2: of Jubilees, the Genesis Apocryphon, and other texts as well.
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 2: And so this story, as bizarre as it is, is
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 2: foundational to Hebrew cosmology. This is what the ancient Hebrews
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 2: believed literally happened. In their minds, this was a historical event.
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 2: You go back in time, you go into the antediluvian world,
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 2: the world before the flood, what do they envision? They
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 2: envision the watchers, these gods living among men, copulating with
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 2: human women, who were cannibalistic. And then God decides to
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 2: intervene because the giants are, it's a very bad scene
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: on planet Earth and people begin to cry out, petition heaven.
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 2: God decides to intervene, according to Enoch. And he dispatches
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 2: some angels and they, one of the things that they
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 2: do is they set the giants against each other in
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 2: a fratricidal war. So, They make the giants go to
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 2: war with each other. Now, when I envision this scenario,
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 2: playing with the idea here that this actually happened, right,
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 2: in the antediluvian world, I don't imagine big dumb giants,
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 2: you know, bopping each other over the heads of clubs.
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 2: I imagine a technological war. Because what I see unfolding here,
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 2: and I think, again, this is implicit in the Enochian story,
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 2: is that The Watchers are essentially creating a dynasty. They
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 2: are building an empire called the Empire of the Gods
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 2: in the antediluvian world. They are each portioning the earth
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 2: among themselves. And their hybrids are ruling each of these kingdoms.
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 2: And then they go to war with each other. And again,
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 2: I see this as a technological war because I don't
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 2: believe that in the biblical account, angels never have wings.
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 2: Only in prophetic iconography. But in the historical... narrative of
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 2: the Bible, angels are never depicted with wings. They are
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 2: depicted as operating what I would describe as advanced aerospace vehicles,
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 2: the chariots of God, the chariots of Yahweh, the chariots
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 2: of fire, variously denominated. And I think that these are
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 2: vehicles of conveyance. And so the watchers, when they descended
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 2: to the earth, I think they descended to the earth
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 2: in some kind of a vehicle, you know, like that, right?
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 2: So they would have the knowledge and there would be
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 2: some technology. And so when these, when their offspring, the
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 2: giants went to war with each other in this fratricidal war,
• 2:24:59
  Speaker 2: it would have been a technological war. Now, the reason
• 2:25:04
  Speaker 2: why I say that is because you have the story
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 2: of the watchers as, as chronicled in the book of Enoch,
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 2: but then overlay the story of Atlantis. You have the
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 2: same story. So of course, the story of Atlantis comes
• 2:25:17
  Speaker 2: to us from Plato's, Timaeus and Critias dialogue. And he
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 2: has Solon of Athens traveling to Egypt and interfacing with
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 2: the priests of Sice. And they tell him, you know,
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 2: you don't have any history that's hoary with age and
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 2: so forth. And then they begin to relate to him
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 2: the story of Atlantis because they told him that his
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 2: ancestors were remarkable people. They were the Athenians and only
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 2: they could resist the warlike Atlanteans, right? And then we
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 2: get the story of Atlantis. How does the story of
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 2: Atlantis begin? in Plato's dialogue? Well, it begins with the
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 2: gods apportioning the earth amongst themselves. That's how it begins.
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 2: Here are the gods dividing, divvying up the earth. They're
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 2: going to create what I, again, describe as an empire
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 2: of the gods. Divvying up the earth and each one
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 2: is going to take a portion of the earth for himself. Poseidon,
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 2: Plato tells us, gets the area of Atlantis. And what
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 2: does Poseidon do? Well, He becomes enamored of a human
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 2: woman named Plato. He takes her to wife. He copulates
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 2: with her. She gives birth to 10 hybrid sons who
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 2: become the kings of Atlantis. And I think there's reason
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 2: to believe that they were giants in the myths. Atlas,
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 2: for example, was chief among them. So you have these
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 2: 10 hybrid sons ruling over Atlantis. Then what happens? Then
• 2:26:45
  Speaker 2: you have, and presumably the other gods did the same thing.
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 2: in other parts of the world, right? They went out
• 2:26:52
  Speaker 2: and married human women and gave birth to hybrid offspring,
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 2: which is, of course, what happens in Greek mythology with
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of these gods. They progenerate hybrid offspring. Then
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 2: you have a war that breaks out. The Atlanteans become
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 2: very warlike. They go on a campaign, and they're steamrolling
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 2: everybody in their way until they get to the Athenians.
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 2: And they're locked in this conflict. So I'm hoping people
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 2: are picking up the parallels here with the Book of Enoch,
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 2: with the story of Enoch. And in the midst of
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 2: this conflict, what happens? Cataclysm ensues. Atlantis, but not just Atlantis. Atlantis,
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 2: in the insinuation, is everybody gets destroyed. in a cataclysm
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 2: that erupts suddenly. And Atlantis is consumed in the waves
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 2: and is no more. Well, the whole point of the Egyptians...
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 2: When they're telling this story to Solon, one of the
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 2: points that they're trying to convey to Solon is there
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 2: have been many cataclysms, world-ending cataclysms. And every time a
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 2: cataclysm happens, we have to start over like children, right?
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 2: So the parallels between the Book of Enoch and I
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 2: think it– by the way, I think Atlantis– that Atlantis
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 2: is an allegory of the antediluvian world in general. I
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 2: think that there was something like an empire of the
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 2: gods in the antediluvian world. And I personally believe that
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 2: the biblical record is the faithful account of what happened
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 2: in the antediluvian world and with the addition of the
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 2: Book of Enoch. Because you cannot separate the Enochian narrative,
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 2: the Enochic traditions from the Bible.
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 1: Well, Enoch is referenced in the Bible. And the only
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 1: reason why the Book of Enoch is not in the
• 2:28:48
  Speaker 1: canon of the Bible is because of some rabbis, right?
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 2: Well, it's complicated. So the Book of Enoch is a
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 2: compilation of texts. And ranging from the 4th century BC
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 2: to probably the 1st century AD, the tradition of Enoch,
• 2:29:06
  Speaker 2: I think, is very old. I think the tradition of Enoch,
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 2: that story I just outlined, that tradition of Enoch is
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 2: the oldest story we have. The one upon which all
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 2: the other stories are based. That's my personal opinion. Now,
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 2: the actual Book of Enoch that we have today, the
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 2: only reason we have it is because it was preserved
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 2: in Ethiopia. That's the only reason we have the Book
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 2: of Enoch today.
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 1: The Ethiopian Bible.
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 2: The Ethiopians preserved it, both the Beta Israel Jews, very,
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 2: very ancient Jewish community, and the Tawahedo Orthodox Christians.
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 1: Do you think they have the Ark of the Covenant?
• 2:29:45
  Speaker 2: I think not. Let's put it this way. I think
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 2: Graham Hancock makes a very compelling case that they do.
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 2: Have you read his book, The Sign and the Seal?
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The whole depiction of these people that are the
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 1: watchers of this thing get cataracts because it has some
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 1: radiation properties.
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 2: Very compelling narrative.
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. None of them live more than a couple of
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 1: years after they get the assignment.
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's a very strong possibility that they do.
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 2: It would be crazy.
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 2: And I think that many people, including Graham, think that
• 2:30:14
  Speaker 2: the Ark of the Covenant was There's something technological about it,
• 2:30:17
  Speaker 2: something radioactive about it. But it is– it's interesting though
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 2: because you have the idea, at the very least the
• 2:30:30
  Speaker 2: potential for technology in the antediluvian world, right, advanced technology.
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 2: So what do I mean? Well, what if– we're talking
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 2: about the watchers who descended the earth. Like I said,
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 2: the Hebrews believed that that actually happened, that that was historical.
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 2: That wasn't mythological to them. That was historical, that event. Well,
• 2:30:46
  Speaker 2: what if they did arrive in something like that, like
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 2: a flying saucer, right? What if there was some level
• 2:30:52
  Speaker 2: of technology introduced? But I don't believe that it would
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 2: have been distributed, broadly distributed, talking about like an advanced
• 2:31:03
  Speaker 2: lost civilization. I don't think that technology would be broadly distributed.
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 2: I think that the technology would remain in these family lines,
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 2: in these dynasties, because their desire was to govern everyone.
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 2: So I think what we might be looking for instead
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 2: of a technologically advanced civilization, maybe a technologically advanced fraternity
• 2:31:20
  Speaker 2: within civilization. You see what I mean? Like a group
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 2: that was in control of something advanced but the rest
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 2: of the people maybe were Iron Age or something like
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 2: that or whatever, Bronze Age level, which is kind of
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 2: a different perspective.
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 1: Well, we see that today, right? I mean there's plenty
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 1: of people today that are uncontacted tribes. That are living
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 1: like people lived tens of thousands of years ago.
• 2:31:44
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
• 2:31:46
  Speaker 1: It's not uniform even today.
• 2:31:48
  Speaker 2: Right. So I think that's why when we think about,
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 2: was there a technologically advanced civilization in the antediluvian world,
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 2: in the world before the great cataclysm? I think really
• 2:31:59
  Speaker 2: what I'm looking for is a fraternity who were in
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 2: possession of technology that the rest of everyone didn't have.
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe something like that. Although I will say, But I
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 2: believe that the antediluvians were much more remarkable than we
• 2:32:13
  Speaker 2: are in every way. I think they were physically more
• 2:32:16
  Speaker 2: robust than we are. I think that they were intellectually
• 2:32:19
  Speaker 2: much more– they were intellectually superior to us. As I
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 2: was saying before, this is how the ancients thought of
• 2:32:24
  Speaker 2: their antecedents. And so when I look back on the
• 2:32:27
  Speaker 2: timeline of history, the further you go back all the
• 2:32:31
  Speaker 2: way to those pre-flood patriarchs, you're looking at human beings
• 2:32:36
  Speaker 2: who were so superior to us. I mean, certainly according
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 2: to the biblical account, they were living much, much longer,
• 2:32:45
  Speaker 2: almost 1,000 years. You're looking at human beings who we
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 2: would scarcely be regarded as human like them because they
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 2: would have been more human than we are because we've degenerated.
• 2:32:58
  Speaker 2: So I see a degeneration. I see a devolution in
• 2:33:02
  Speaker 2: the human species. We started as something really, really remarkable,
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 2: and we've been gradually degraded. over time, so to speak.
• 2:33:09
  Speaker 2: We've been degenerating. I think that our antecedents, our antediluvian antecedents,
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 2: I think they were telepathic. I think that they had
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 2: these incredible abilities, capabilities that are perhaps latent in the
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 2: human species today.
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 1: Well, that might have been why these people had such
• 2:33:28
  Speaker 1: large heads in Peru, too.
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 4: Maybe.
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 2: Right? Maybe everybody had elongated skulls at one time.
• 2:33:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 2:33:33
  Speaker 2: But I mean, think about that, though. I mean, if
• 2:33:36
  Speaker 2: you were— see, from a biblical perspective, Adam was created for
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 2: two fundamental reasons. He was created to govern the earth.
• 2:33:46
  Speaker 2: But more than that, he was created to fellowship with
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 2: the Maker, to commune with the Maker. He was created
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 2: for fellowship. So think about that. If you were created
• 2:34:01
  Speaker 2: to fellowship with the Maker— with God, you would have
• 2:34:05
  Speaker 2: some extraordinary capabilities built into your anatomy, into your biology.
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 2: You would be given the ability to interface with the
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 2: maker and not just with the maker, but with whatever
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 2: else is out there as well. So from the very beginning,
• 2:34:20
  Speaker 2: I think that mankind was imbued, it was intrinsic in
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 2: our design That we had all of these incredible capabilities,
• 2:34:32
  Speaker 2: maybe remote viewing, maybe certainly I would say telepathy because
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 2: telepathy is conversation at the speed of thought. I mean
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 2: we fumble around with words. It takes us kind of
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 2: a long time to try and say what we mean.
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 2: But what if what you wanted to convey to me
• 2:34:47
  Speaker 2: was done so instantaneously? How much more could you convey?
• 2:34:51
  Speaker 2: How much more information? How much more efficient would that
• 2:34:55
  Speaker 2: mode of conversation be?
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 1: It certainly seems like if we keep evolving, that's the future.
• 2:35:01
  Speaker 1: Or if we keep developing better and better versions of technology,
• 2:35:06
  Speaker 1: one of the things that– the gaps that we would
• 2:35:08
  Speaker 1: bridge is– Elon said that. He said we're going to
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 1: be able to talk without words.
• 2:35:13
  Speaker 2: Well, the problem is that our technology is getting better,
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 2: but our species is getting dumber.
• 2:35:19
  Speaker 1: And our biology is getting weaker.
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 2: It's getting weaker.
• 2:35:21
  Speaker 1: And we're poisoning ourselves.
• 2:35:22
  Speaker 2: But it's not just because of poison. Yes, we poison
• 2:35:25
  Speaker 2: our environment. We poison our bodies, certainly. But I believe
• 2:35:28
  Speaker 2: that it's clear to me that we have degenerating, and
• 2:35:33
  Speaker 2: we are degenerating. We are degenerating. And this is genetic degeneration.
• 2:35:40
  Speaker 2: So we have what's called mutational load, human beings, all creatures.
• 2:35:44
  Speaker 2: We have mutational load. And mutational load is all of
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 2: the deleterious mutations, all of the negative mutations that happen
• 2:35:51
  Speaker 2: in our genomes. They compile, and it becomes this burden,
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 2: this genetic burden. We have all of these mutations that
• 2:36:02
  Speaker 2: we're carrying, mutational load. And the further we go down
• 2:36:05
  Speaker 2: the line, the more mutational load we have. And again,
• 2:36:08
  Speaker 2: these are deleterious mutations. So you get all kinds of
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 2: problems from that. I mean, basically what it amounts to
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 2: is we become less and less and less impressive over time.
• 2:36:19
  Speaker 2: And there's nothing we can do. You can't reverse that.
• 2:36:22
  Speaker 2: You can't just have a good diet and regain the
• 2:36:27
  Speaker 2: capabilities that were lost. That's impossible. So we're declining. Our
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 2: technology is ascending. We're declining. So what we're headed for
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 2: essentially is a post-human future, a future in which we
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 2: have to evolve ourselves out of this condition, I would
• 2:36:46
  Speaker 2: say out of Adam, into something else. And I'm not
• 2:36:51
  Speaker 2: in favor of that, by the way. I'm not a transhumanist.
• 2:36:53
  Speaker 2: But clearly, you have this conundrum where we are clearly
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 2: getting dumber as a species. There's no doubt about it.
• 2:37:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I saw– I can't reference it here, but
• 2:37:05
  Speaker 2: I saw some data on this the other day, and
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 2: it's astounding. It's kind of alarming. And not only that,
• 2:37:16
  Speaker 2: we've realized– I try to remember the reference to this
• 2:37:19
  Speaker 2: book that details this. But the human species is essentially
• 2:37:26
  Speaker 2: becoming reproductively inviolable. The sperm count of males in the
• 2:37:31
  Speaker 2: West is declining precipitously, as is our fitness. So that
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 2: is on the decline, such that I think the projection
• 2:37:40
  Speaker 2: is in 2045 or something like that, we're going to
• 2:37:42
  Speaker 2: basically be reproductively inviolable. We're What's happening right now? We're
• 2:37:52
  Speaker 2: developing things like artificial wombs. So it's very interesting that
• 2:37:57
  Speaker 2: these two things are running in parallel. We're degenerating, but
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 2: our technology is increasingly getting better. So the result of
• 2:38:07
  Speaker 2: this is going to be what I describe as post-human apocalypse.
• 2:38:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're headed for a future that's not human.
• 2:38:13
  Speaker 2: That's what the Yuval Noah Harari is out there prognosticating
• 2:38:21
  Speaker 2: that in, I think he says in 120 to 130
• 2:38:24
  Speaker 2: years from now, there will be no more human beings
• 2:38:26
  Speaker 2: left on planet earth. So why am I saying this?
• 2:38:30
  Speaker 2: Because I'm illustrating that you go back in time, go
• 2:38:34
  Speaker 2: all the way back to the beginning. If you come
• 2:38:35
  Speaker 2: from a biblical paradigm like I do, you're the first man, Adam,
• 2:38:40
  Speaker 2: the prototypical man. He has all of the incredible capabilities
• 2:38:43
  Speaker 2: that are innate built into his system. He can, he
• 2:38:47
  Speaker 2: keeps communing with his maker. He's governing the earth. He
• 2:38:51
  Speaker 2: can do all of these amazing things and then as
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 2: we become copies of copies of copies of copies of
• 2:38:56
  Speaker 2: copies of Adam all the way down, we're gradually losing
• 2:38:59
  Speaker 2: these abilities. But I think that some of them are
• 2:39:02
  Speaker 2: still latent in the human species and I think that
• 2:39:05
  Speaker 2: explains remote viewing and telepathy and things like that. I
• 2:39:10
  Speaker 2: don't know how I got on that.
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 1: Listen, it makes a lot of sense and it's a
• 2:39:13
  Speaker 1: fascinating conversation and I enjoyed this very much.
• 2:39:18
  Speaker 2: I did as well.
• 2:39:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for being here.
• 2:39:20
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 2:39:21
  Speaker 1: Tell everybody if they want to get a hold of
• 2:39:22
  Speaker 1: your stuff, they want to find you, where they can
• 2:39:24
  Speaker 1: find you on social media, where they can find your website.
• 2:39:28
  Speaker 2: Timothy Albarino on social media, on Instagram, on X. I
• 2:39:33
  Speaker 2: have a YouTube channel, Timothy Albarino. So I have a
• 2:39:35
  Speaker 2: book called Birthright. And I also published commentary on commentary
• 2:39:43
  Speaker 2: and introduction to the Book of Enoch with my friends.
• 2:39:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, Cydonia. We're going to have to get to that.
• 2:39:48
  Speaker 2: That's a whole other conversation.
• 2:39:50
  Speaker 1: Next time.
• 2:39:50
  Speaker 2: We're going to have to have that conversation.
• 2:39:52
  Speaker 1: I would love to. I would love to. Thank you
• 2:39:53
  Speaker 1: very much.
• 2:39:54
  Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun. My pleasure.
• 2:39:55
  Speaker 1: Bye, everybody.