Latest / The Permission Slip / S2 | E8 Luke Lindstrom, Conscious Channel and Intuitive Healer

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S2 | E8 Luke Lindstrom, Conscious Channel and Intuitive Healer · The Permission Slip

• S2E8 Lindstrom === Matt Kosterman: Hi, this is Matt, and we're back with another episode of the Permission Slip. Today I'm with Luke Lindstrom, who is an intuitive healer and a channel. Uh, Luke and I kind of met at Paul SIGs workshop, uh, in Chicago last fall. And, uh, we, uh, agreed to sit down and chat some more about channeling. Uh, so Luke, welcome. Luke Lindstrom: Thank you. Matt Kosterman: Thanks. It's good to Luke Lindstrom: be here. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks for making the trek down from Old Town. Love to do these things in person. I just think the energy is. Is, uh, is great this way and, uh, we got a relatively warm day in Chicago. I think we might hit 50 today in February. Luke Lindstrom: It's feeling like spring. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't, don't let it go to your head because Luke Lindstrom: it can come back anytime. Winter. Matt Kosterman: That's right. Yeah. It's Valentine's Day. It's the, uh, first day of the fire horse in Chinese medicine. So an pic, uh, Chinese, uh, I dunno, what do you call it? Worldview. Um, so it's an auspicious day. So we are here to chat. Matt Kosterman: So Luke, welcome. Thank you. Um, tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you, where'd you, where'd you grow up? How'd you get into this? What, what'd you go through? What was your, I know you're, you're how old? Luke Lindstrom: I'm 28. Matt Kosterman: 28. So what, what, what brought you to where you are today? Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Um, I grew up in Michigan, in uh, suburbs of Detroit, a typical, uh, suburb, family. Luke Lindstrom: My mom is a therapist. Dad worked in, uh, software sales for, uh, Oracle and a couple other companies, and then ended up starting his own business. Uh, my parents divorced when I was in eighth grade, which was kind of like, uh, a pivotal time. Yeah. In, in my life. Uh, it felt like it, like the choices made then, you know, they ripple and, uh, have everything. Luke Lindstrom: I feel like everything starts from like, um, like in a, a there's like points in our life where we go, this felt like a pivotal point. Mm-hmm. Where there was like, choices were made that s set the tone for the rest of our life. And, um, Matt Kosterman: did you have siblings or Luke Lindstrom: younger? I, yeah, I have a younger sister. Uh, yeah, we get along. Luke Lindstrom: She's cool. Yeah. Um, and, um. Kind of high school was really rough. And I, Matt Kosterman: yeah, eighth, so eighth grade was a divorce. So go Luke Lindstrom: all a sudden into high Matt Kosterman: school. Luke Lindstrom: All Matt Kosterman: of a sudden the family is, Luke Lindstrom: yeah, everything I like, there's like, I, I didn't really understand what happened and I still don't fully, but like eighth grade is seventh and eighth grade. Luke Lindstrom: I was like, reg, relatively outgoing, was like talking to many different friend groups. And, uh, and when I went to high school, uh, it kind of collapsed. I just talked to one friend group, like, kind of kept to myself, um, uh, kind of with my parents getting divorced, started using pornography more heavily as like a way of coping. Luke Lindstrom: Uh, you know, and later found out that that was something my dad, I think, kind of struggled with as well. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And might've been one of the reasons why my parents separated, but, uh. And, and so high school was, went through like a pretty big, uh, loner phase where I, um, I essentially like, and eventually the one friend group I talked to like unfriended me. Luke Lindstrom: And then I just never made any more friends and like, uh, and yeah, and at the end of high school, just I felt like I was barely functioning. Mm-hmm. Felt like I was in really need of healing. Um, and yeah, we can definitely dive more into that, but, Matt Kosterman: but probably didn't even know what that meant. Luke Lindstrom: I, I knew that. Luke Lindstrom: Like, there's a level of like awkwardness, like a level of like, I felt like I had no voice. I felt complete. Like I felt surprised when people, like going off into college when people would show me attention, I felt like surprised that someone would be interested in getting to know me. Like I knew, I, I was not what, like I knew I was barely able to like be a human. Luke Lindstrom: Mm. And I, I didn't, and, and it was figuring out, okay, what about my experience has led me to have so little self-worth. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: Right. So little of like, I, um, I'm a relatively really outgoing person. Like, I talk to people all, all the time and like, I just have memories In high school, like at my a job, I used to work at Goldfish Swim School where I would just sit and be quiet and wouldn't talk to anyone. Luke Lindstrom: Like, just so, like such a level of shut downness where like in high school, like I really didn't know many people who were like as shut down as I was. Interesting. Everyone else seemed to be holding it like they might've been in pain, but everyone else seemed to be holding it together a lot better than me. Luke Lindstrom: And it was like, uh, so I, I knew something. I knew things were off. Yeah. I knew I was in need of healing. Matt Kosterman: Right. Luke Lindstrom: But I, it was then a journey of figuring out what's actually gonna work. Like how am I, were you Matt Kosterman: going to therapy? Luke Lindstrom: Uh, yeah. I went to a couple therapists in high school and it was like surface level. Luke Lindstrom: Okay. Right. You know, therapists are like dentists and some are great and some are mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: Doing the bare minimum. And all the therapists I saw in high school, they never ask deeper questions. Right. Okay. They never ask like, um. You know, what is your, what is your relationship like with your parents? How did that change when your parents got a divorce? Luke Lindstrom: Like how, how, how have you been coping with it? No one asked any, like, anything really other, just than looking at, oh, he seems like he has a hard time focusing. He might need a DHD medication. And, uh, yeah. Right. Yeah. It was all like, no one saw, and then so the, I saw a couple of therapists in high school and then I ended up, my mom like, could see that I was not doing well, right? Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. It was, uh, it was kind of odd. It was obvious from anyone like I, that, that something Matt Kosterman: had Luke Lindstrom: changed, right? Yeah. Yeah. That, uh, I was pretty shut down and, uh, shoot. And when I was 18. She took me to go see the somatic therapist in Oxford, in Texas, uh, who's, uh, well known in the therapy. Community's written a book. Luke Lindstrom: He does trainings all over, he over the world now. Mm-hmm. Um, mostly in the United States, but, uh, his name's Steven Terrell. And, uh, he was the first person I felt who really saw me. Like, I, I remember like, I think it was the first session I saw him, he was just like, wow, you are so angry. And I was like, no one had I, yeah, I, no one had said that no one had ever paid. Luke Lindstrom: And I was incredibly pissed. Yeah. I high school felt like, uh, it felt like, um. You know, anger and sadness kind of go hand in hand with one another. And my mom would wonder why. Like, I would try and find the saddest movies to, to watch. And she's like, why do you like that stuff? And it's like, it felt, it was the only thing I felt like could give me a release. Luke Lindstrom: It like, like, because you couldn't, Matt Kosterman: you would emote It would cause Luke Lindstrom: you to emote. Yeah, it would call me to feel like I was just like, watching something that was devastating actually helped me feel the part of me that like, I felt like I lost every, I, like in middle school I was cool as a cucumber. Public speaking, gone in high school. Matt Kosterman: Wow. Luke Lindstrom: Like, uh, uh, you know, went from being like comfortable talking to girls and like stuttering anytime, like there's like parts of myself that just disappeared. Interesting. And I didn't really understand what happened. And then, you know, my parents, while it was good that they got a divorce, like, uh. They both didn't, we didn't talk about it. Luke Lindstrom: And all that got kind of pushed down. And my, you know, it kind of felt like in the short term, my mom started working six days a week as a therapist would come home, like, and just clean the house, do eight different appointments. And it kind of felt like, and my dad became a little bit more self-absorbed and the things that kind of like were hidden well when they were, uh, together started leading away because Matt Kosterman: they were sort of compensating for Luke Lindstrom: each other. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, yeah. You know, divorces put a lot of stress on pe Like my parents, we have a good relationship now and, and they've both done healing work. They've both become, and, uh, but uh, in, in the, the ways that we, like, I'm trying to think, uh, they, you know, the ways that with, with. Divorce, like the pressure of finances. Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. Of like, like my mom started working more to try and like, help us Right. Make sure, keep the same standard of living. Yeah. So I could get, get a car when I was 16 and I could have nice clothes and all the things. But the caveat was she's listening to people complain about their life 12 hours a day, all day, every day. Luke Lindstrom: And then has like no outlet for that level of like, you know, if you listen to someone complain or if you are right. That level of negativity, it has to go somewhere. And, uh, a lot of times I was the brunt of, of some of that. And Matt Kosterman: she, she certainly probably didn't wanna listen to negativity from you when she got home. Luke Lindstrom: No, no space. Right. Matt Kosterman: No space. I mean, kind of like a, you know, somebody who's a, who's a chef Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: They probably don't want to come home and cook. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Right. Exactly. Matt Kosterman: Right. Luke Lindstrom: Exactly. Yeah. And it, um, um, no way. I'm trying to like. Badmouth my parents. No, no, but no, Matt Kosterman: but no, I get it. I think it's, but so you, so you, you had this major inflection point at the divorce and going into high school and hormones and like, you know Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: Everything's Luke Lindstrom: changing. Right. And, and yeah. And, uh, just, and then, you know, and just no one was around, like my mom was always working. My, my dad felt a little more like less present Sure. During that time. 'cause he's dealing with the loss of his marriage and whatever. And, and my sister's doing competitive dance like every day. Luke Lindstrom: And so I'm just alone. I'm just alone every night. And I'm just like watching movies and masturbating every day and using, like, using pornography and Matt Kosterman: Right. Luke Lindstrom: As a way Matt Kosterman: to connect, Luke Lindstrom: feel something. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like, uh, later on, like, um, my, uh, later on like. I get like in kind of halfway through high school, uh, my mom could see that I was like, uh, seemed like I was depressed, right. Luke Lindstrom: I was getting like all C's and stuff. And so they took me to a psychiatrist and they gave me antidepressant antidepressants, but I wasn't depressed. I was just not using my energy well. Mm-hmm. Like my way of rest was just binge watching TV shows and playing video games and that never actually fills up your cup. Matt Kosterman: Right, right. Luke Lindstrom: And, and, and masturbating a bunch. And so they gave me antidepressants and it actually made me like manic. Ah. 'cause I, I actually wasn't depressed in the sense of like a brain imbalance. Uh, I was just not using. Matt Kosterman: Right. Luke Lindstrom: Not really. Matt Kosterman: Right. Which actually, that, that theory is sort of shown to be, that was like a passing thing that they said to the ad agencies. Matt Kosterman: We'll call it a brain, call it a chemical imbalance. Yeah. And that's not actually true, right? Like, there's so much, you don't even get started on antidepressants. And they're, I know they help some people, but they also hurt a lot of people. Luke Lindstrom: Right. And then no one asked a deeper question of like, okay, well why is he showing up as depressed? Luke Lindstrom: Like, what's really going on? Why is he having such a, like no one? Yeah. There was never any like looking into that by, by anyone. So, um, and Matt Kosterman: were you using, uh, substances at all? Were you like Luke Lindstrom: No. Okay. It's like to, I was, I didn't have, like, and you know, Matt Kosterman: you didn't really have a friend Luke Lindstrom: group. I didn't have a friend group Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: To Matt Kosterman: buy you a pod or to buy you or Luke Lindstrom: whatever. Yeah. No substance. I, I honestly think I like burned myself so much out on, like with technology and pornography that, you know, going, even going into college, like it just wasn't an, an appeal. Like, I had already had enough experience with addiction. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: That, um, I wanted a different experience. Luke Lindstrom: Sure. I didn't think it was, yeah. Um, so Matt Kosterman: you went, so then you ended up going to college and studying psychology? Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, I did. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Interesting. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Is it sort of a, a, a, uh, what, what was the. What were the thoughts behind, like the choice of major? Did you go into college knowing you wanted to do, to do this? Matt Kosterman: Were you, were you already, did you have an inkling that you had this deeper connection to source to? Was that, was that available to you at this time? Luke Lindstrom: Um, I knew I wanted to help people. Okay. That's all I really knew. I actually went in to college as like an environmental science major because I saw some environmental documentaries and thought maybe this is the way I could help the planet. Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. Um, and uh, then kind of ba and I was pre-med and I did Okay. In pre-med. I like bs, but usually BS aren't good enough to get into med school. And, uh, I, yeah. I, I just, I, I ended up becoming a psych major one because I needed a break from pre-med. Mm-hmm. Like, it just like. I knew I wasn't gonna go to med school with the grades I had. Luke Lindstrom: And two, I, um, I also, like the greatest healer I had found was this sematic therapist. Okay. And, uh, so you had Matt Kosterman: continued Luke Lindstrom: to work Matt Kosterman: with Luke Lindstrom: I, yeah, I had worked through him, with him for like, uh, I would, he would do training sometimes in Chicago. Okay. And I would get sessions with him sometimes then. And, uh, I thought maybe this is, this seems like it really helps people. Luke Lindstrom: It's really changed my life in a lot of ways. Yeah. It's, Matt Kosterman: and did that, did that all give an outlet for the anger? Luke Lindstrom: Uh, Matt Kosterman: did you, how did Luke Lindstrom: you No, I, no, Matt Kosterman: no, Luke Lindstrom: no. You Matt Kosterman: didn't process it that way? Luke Lindstrom: I, no, uh, I think that's a great question. I, I feel like the anger, um. I honestly think some of the anger went away when I just started to care for myself better. Luke Lindstrom: Okay. Because I think my pattern in high school was people, like, I kind of felt like a punching bag for everyone's shit. Mm. For, for my friend group shit sometimes for my parents' shit. Um, and my, I, I, you know, I think in some ways, while I wasn't always, I was not a great human in high school by any means, I think we can all say that about our journey of like, there's times in our life where when we're more lost in an addiction, we're not always the kindest and not always saying the best things, but, Matt Kosterman: oh, Luke Lindstrom: I did. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. I did a Matt Kosterman: lot of shitty Luke Lindstrom: things in high school. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I definitely mouthed off to my parents and told my mom to go fuck herself and like all the things. Yeah. Um, but, uh, there was, it's Matt Kosterman: also part of individuation, like you gotta Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Right. There's Matt Kosterman: always Luke Lindstrom: that, you know? Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Um, but I, I also think that in, in high school, I was like a safe person. Like a lot of times when people would say shitty things to me, I would just take it quietly. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Luke Lindstrom: I wouldn't, you didn't, I wouldn't fight back. And I think, you know, I've always had for whatever, maybe it's, I inherited from my mom, but people always seem to tell me deeper things than like on the bus or whatever. Luke Lindstrom: Some people Yeah. Say I'm the same. Yeah. All of a Matt Kosterman: sudden they're telling you Luke Lindstrom: their life story because Yeah. Yeah. They're like, oh, I didn't expect to say this much. Yeah, right. Um, and so I think on some level, and I think a lot of like empathic people experience this is people feel safe with you, but that also means people feel more safe to be more mean and unconscious to you. Luke Lindstrom: Because if they're avoiding their unconsciousness, that's what takes them over. And, and I think there's some type of subconscious recognition of, oh, this person's a safe person for me to project my shit onto. Yeah. They're not gonna Matt Kosterman: punch Luke Lindstrom: me. Yeah. And that's, that was my high school experiences is I just felt like everyone's punching back and interesting. Luke Lindstrom: And, uh, I, and I, I, I ended up going, I ended up, uh, you know, I think as we grow older, we just start to realize, okay, like the people who aren't kind to us, I shouldn't be so loyal to and Matt Kosterman: Right. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. For a long time, you know, that was a big learning curve for me of like learning how to, one, speak up for myself. Luke Lindstrom: To not tolerating when people are nasty and still thinking I should be friends with 'em and, Matt Kosterman: yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Uh, Matt Kosterman: boundaries. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Yeah. Um, Matt Kosterman: well, I'm, yeah. And I'm wondering if there was, you know, some level of, uh, where you took some level of ownership for your parents' divorce. Like there was something that you did wrong. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: That, that's off. You know, Luke Lindstrom: I had the intuitive hit before my parents got a divorce. Like what if my parents separated? Matt Kosterman: Okay. Luke Lindstrom: And, uh, Matt Kosterman: so you knew something was up. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. And, um, I then from, and then felt guilty because I thought maybe that thought, Matt Kosterman: oh, that you Luke Lindstrom: caused, Matt Kosterman: that Luke Lindstrom: you caused it. Yeah. Maybe that caused it, right? Luke Lindstrom: Sure. Or, and, and for a long time, I, my parents never told us why they got a divorce, so then it's just like, am ambiguous. There is some type of like childhood blame of like, maybe, maybe there's, maybe I'm a bad person, right? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe there's some reason why I, I'm the reason my parents got a divorce. Matt Kosterman: Right. And I mean, the funny thing is even, you know, my parents stayed together. They weren't together for 55 years till my mother died. And, and they didn't have a particularly good relationship for many of the last the years. And even though they stayed married, there's still a level on the flip side, they stayed married but had a bad marriage. Matt Kosterman: There was some, uh, uh, belief that I had that I was the cause of that. Luke Lindstrom: Right, Matt Kosterman: right. Yeah. Right. That it was having kids. Right. And they had, you know, and then in my doing my work later in life and I, you know, they were, they just turned 22 years old Yeah. When they had me. Right. And I kind of fucked up the plans. Matt Kosterman: Right. My dad wasn't, they were both in college. My mother had to drop outta college. Right. Yeah. You know what level of residual or resentment? Totally. You know. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: No fault of theirs. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: But you know, I know if I was 22 and I got somebody pregnant. The path I was gonna gonna take over the world and make all the money and do all the things, I would've been fucking pissed. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: So all that to say is, I don't know that it matters that your parents get divorced, that your parents stay together, whatever. Like we take on shit that's not necessarily ours. Luke Lindstrom: Totally. Right? Yeah, Matt Kosterman: totally. To have. Yeah. And then that can cause a lot, I mean, I had a lot of anger it took me until very recently. Matt Kosterman: Um Yeah. To really process Luke Lindstrom: that. Yeah. And I, you know, the anger is just from the mistreatment, uh, from having friends in high school that sometimes were great and sometimes would say things that were really shitty. And having parents that did that and having, uh, having kids on the baseball team that would do that, and all the ways that I, instead of speaking up for myself, I just stayed quiet and took it. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Then it sometimes led into moments where I'd blow up. Like me and my mom used to get like an awful fights and my junior year of high school would just screaming matches. But the thing was like. I always lost. Like I never, I never, my mom could always skel, like, yell louder or become more scarier than me. Luke Lindstrom: And Oh, interesting. Um, and that really made me, when you, it made it so, like, I never then felt comfortable confronting authority mm-hmm. Or speaking up for myself because I always felt at the end of those arguments or yelling matches, I always felt dominated. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: And, and so then it's like less than, felt less than, and then it's like not safe, right. Luke Lindstrom: It's like if I'm always, you know, even if I'm being nasty or getting loud, if I'm always losing those fights, then I should just never speak up and like I Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Into adulthood. I've had a really hard time whenever I've needed to say something, it's like my whole throat gets tight. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Luke Lindstrom: And I. You know, the anger. Luke Lindstrom: I, I, it really, yeah. I don't know if its, it really just resolved from me. I, a lot of it came from me just caring for myself better and caring instead of going, taking shit in my day and then going home and taking that out on myself. Mm-hmm. Or taking it out with thoughts or, or in some way saying, this is why this thing that happened in my day is a reason why I don't deserve care. Luke Lindstrom: Right. And so I'm just gonna treat myself like shit. It was like, like for me it was like cutting out pornography. It was becoming vegetarian. It was like becoming sober and, and really valuing, no, I'm gonna treat myself well. Mm-hmm. And that was like really the start of, of me healing and resolving some of the stuff that, you know, was I inherited the stuff that, um, was the stuff Matt Kosterman: that you came in here to work on? Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The stuff that into this Matt Kosterman: life, Luke Lindstrom: right? Yeah. It's like we light workers come to earth and. Or see's struggling, and they're like, I wanna help. And it's like, okay, the, the greatest way you're gonna help is just cleaning up all the thing the family you're born into, like all the stuff and the community and all the stuff that's, and, and healing that within yourself. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Within yourself. Luke Lindstrom: I mean, because you Matt Kosterman: can't Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Because then you're not gonna pass it on. And, and that I think, is overlooked sometimes. No. Yeah. It's overlooked in the way of like trying to, uh, sometimes we think, oh, I have to do something in the world, and we never actually look at our own stuff. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. And, and that's can be a real trap, so. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: yeah. Yeah. I mean, interestingly also, I, I, I see there's a pattern. There tends to be a pattern of people with that kind of anger and the feeling shut down and beaten down where they. Go in, they try to compensate for it physically. So they start working out, they get big, they get, you know, they, they think, oh, I'm gonna put this armor on Luke Lindstrom: totally. Matt Kosterman: Nobody's gonna fuck with me. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: Um, so kudos to you for diving in and, and, you know, Luke Lindstrom: didn't feel like I had a choice. It felt like I was either gonna face it or life was gonna be just become more and more hard. And I was gonna like, Matt Kosterman: yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Like the point of like, oh, I'm barely functioning and I don't know how I could continue to live life like this. Luke Lindstrom: Right. So I have to change like the, it just like, there was, you know, the gift of going through heart, like incredible levels of, of hardship and, and being incredibly shut down is like, you get to a place of, I either I have to change, I don't have a choice. Yeah. I have to, I have to start listening. Right. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Or life's like the little, the little pulls of, I think I need to do this. It's like, okay, I just have to do it. Yeah. Like, there, there isn't an option. Yeah. Right. I have to get better. Right. This things have to, and. The grace of that is like, uh, you know, now I feel pretty com comfortable in myself. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Feel pretty, pretty healed, feel, um, and, and, and don't have a lot of like addictive patterns that I struggle with. Don't, don't really find myself in relationships that are super toxic and, or, and, uh, that's because of the hardship. Mm-hmm. Right? That's, that's, if you can resolve it, it, it becomes a great way to. Luke Lindstrom: It becomes, it helps you wake up. Yeah. It doesn't mean we should stay in toxic relationships, but if we were out of toxic relationships and on the other side of it, it's like your greatest pain becomes your greatest fuel for healing. And as long as you don't lose sight of that, you can make a lot of changes and heal rather quickly because of the Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And the, the toxic relationship is nothing more than a mirror to your own toxicity. Luke Lindstrom: Right? Yeah. Matt Kosterman: It's not the other person, it's always you. Luke Lindstrom: Right? Yeah. Matt Kosterman: It's always you. Right. There's no other. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Totally. Matt Kosterman: And, and it's, uh, I think that's a, it, it took me a long time to, to see that. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: So when did the, when, when did the connection, the deeper connection and the listening to, to, to the guides that, how do you characterize Luke Lindstrom: right. Matt Kosterman: Who, you know Luke Lindstrom: what I do. Matt Kosterman: What you do? Yeah. Who's, who you're communicating, who's communicating Luke Lindstrom: through you. Yeah. Um, so I have a pretty interesting relationship with channeling. It's, um, it's not like a voice. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Luke Lindstrom: Um, it's an energy. It literally feels like, I'll feel like my crown kind of open up and I'll feel the stream come through my body and it just speaks through me. Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. And it is always. Um, you know, there's, there's people that trach channel and there's people that conscious channel. And so, uh, tra channeling is like you move your personality structure out of the way, kind of like Paul Sig and a guide comes and speaks through you. And then there's conscious channeling, which I kind of think of as like your personality structure and God kind of meet halfway. Luke Lindstrom: Okay. And so, um, I kind of describe it as like a kayaker on the stream. Like the stream kind of tells the kayaker when asked to turn and kind of is guiding a little bit where the conversation is going. But the kayaker kind of gets to pick where on the stream it gets to be. And so, um, a lot of times it will show up as like when I'm doing my YouTube channel as like. Luke Lindstrom: I thought I was gonna talk, like I, I do kind of, my ego structure still has to have a little understanding of what I'm talking about. It's not like I'm just surrendering to something and it's all divine guidance. I also, there's, there's some humanness that is interwoven in that, that needs to have a little idea about, okay, what is the subject? Luke Lindstrom: What, and so the, the conscious channel, what, what it's, it's um, it's kind of like your, your personality structure. While it's not, it's not in full control. It do, it is kind of like. Has some understanding and then the stream kind of guides. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Luke Lindstrom: It kind of is like, I always think of it as like the bumpers on like a bowling ball. Luke Lindstrom: It kind of keeps it in an, an area that, Matt Kosterman: for the, the Luke Lindstrom: kids Matt Kosterman: bowling where they, where they Luke Lindstrom: put Matt Kosterman: the blow up tubes Luke Lindstrom: down Matt Kosterman: there, so, Luke Lindstrom: right. Yeah. Um, stays Matt Kosterman: on track. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. And Matt Kosterman: go in the gutter. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. And so a lot of times they'll think of, oh, I was thought, I thought I was gonna talk about this, but I'm starting off with talking something, talking about something that's much different. Luke Lindstrom: And Matt Kosterman: when Luke Lindstrom: did, and it's just coming through me and I'm just following, I'm literally following the stream. Okay. But then there's still like, there's still things of like, oh, I'm f I'm feeling this pull to talk about this. Okay. I'll talk about this. Or, oh, I, I only wanna talk about that a little. I try and surrender to the stream as much as I can, but it is kind of like you get impressions or sometimes it'll feel like. Luke Lindstrom: Uh, kind of like a sentence will run through my mind and there is times where the sentence runs through my mind and, or a couple, and I'll get to pick which one of those sentences is gonna be the next jumping off point or something Matt Kosterman: like that. And what was the impetus? When did this begin? When did you, so when did you realize that it wasn't necessarily you that was having these thoughts? Matt Kosterman: Because for people who might just be tuning in, um, I've, I've interviewed a couple of channels, Laura O'Malley, um, and we're all capable of this like, Luke Lindstrom: and then Matt Kosterman: Yeah, and Luke Lindstrom: art Matt Kosterman: and, and doing it and, Luke Lindstrom: right. Sports and Matt Kosterman: sports and there's, there's a, there's a higher guidance. Um, yeah. And, and, and Paul Sig is, like I said, that's how, that's how Luke and I met. Matt Kosterman: So when, when, you know, people have had, you know, my friend Laura was guided to, like, her husband dragged her to the library, which is someplace she never went. And, and there was this book on, you know, and she was in a whole, her whole. Mess of depression. And there was this book on Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Being psychic or something. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, I don't remember. And she's like, Hmm, what's this? And, and then she started opening too. So how, how was that for you? What, yeah, Luke Lindstrom: what, Matt Kosterman: what, what, when did you realize that, oh, like this is not maybe my thought, or, or, Luke Lindstrom: right. Yeah. So something Matt Kosterman: that could be useful for other humans. It Luke Lindstrom: started with, it started in college and I, um, was doing sivananda yoga. Luke Lindstrom: Like, like in, in, I went to Lo Loyola, there was a Sivananda yoga center, like a mile away from campus. And I started doing like the 6:00 AM meditations, chanting in Sanskrit, doing their yoga class a couple times a week. Um, doing Sunday, uh, sat song. And, um, it got to a place where I started to feel like I think I'm ready for a guru. Luke Lindstrom: I think I'm ready for some type of spiritual teacher. Like, uh, I, my, you know, my, my mom is, has been into spirituality at some, oh. I had like, she had a couple books on chakras. I did a yoga teacher training in high school. I had some awareness of spirituality coming into my early twenties, and I didn't really know what to think about God or to I, it wasn't some, it's just like, it's like sometimes we d we'd growing up, we'd do the, our father who aren't and Heaven prayer. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lewis Prayer. Right. And, you know, I remember like kind of being like, kind of being like, I don't really know what to think about this. And, and so, but I knew coming out of when I was 18 that I was in real need of healing. That's, and that was like a fire and like. It just burned. And, um, my mom, like when I was 18, bought me this book called The Brain That Changes Itself by Norman Doge. Luke Lindstrom: And it was all these people who had like traumatic brain injuries, who found ways to heal it. And I like devoured that book. Mm-hmm. And so I always had a real passion for healing and I knew I wanted to help people, but I just didn't know what that would look like. And so I'm doing shivanda yoga and I'm starting to feel like I'm ready for a guru. Luke Lindstrom: I'm like, well, maybe I should like go to an ashra or like, um, and um, they, they do the Matt Kosterman: rom Doss pilgrimage to Luke Lindstrom: India. Yeah. Something. Yeah. And, uh, they ended up, uh, they do like little messages like Shivananda and Vishnu Denda, uh, which are the two people. Vishnu Denda brought Shivananda to the West. Uh, they wrote books. Luke Lindstrom: And so they do messages after our meditation and singing in ton of like, and. I remember it really clearly. I was like, it was like right when I was like, I think I need to go to an asra, I think I gotta find some type of spiritual guru. And they opened the, the book and they said like, it was something like feeding people is worth a thousand times of, of then going to live at an asra. Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. And I was like, oh. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's, Matt Kosterman: mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: That seems that Matt Kosterman: was, Luke Lindstrom: yeah, that's, Matt Kosterman: that was what Maharaji always used to say to Ramdas. Like, he was like, what do, what do I do? How do I help? And you know, he's like, feed people. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, uh, that was kind of eyeopening and so I was like, okay, I'll just sit with this desire. Luke Lindstrom: And then a couple months later, um. I, there's a Hay House webinar and I, I had been following this guy, the medical medium mm-hmm. Who talks about like Matt Kosterman: Anthony Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, yeah. Williams, Anthony Williams. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. I, where Luke Lindstrom: spoke that and, uh, he was speaking at us, so was like, oh, check it out. And there's just like a hundred free webinars of like different spiritual teachers. Luke Lindstrom: And I watched like 10 or 12 of 'em and there was three that really popped out at me. Uh, Diana Cooper, who teaches about Angels and Ascended Masters, does a lot of guided visualizations. Uh, Matt Conn, who's a conscious channel, and then, uh, Carolyn, miss. Mm-hmm. Um, Matt Kosterman: Oak Luke Lindstrom: Parker. Yeah, Matt Kosterman: yeah, Luke Lindstrom: yeah. Um, but I ended up following Matt Conn and Diana Cooper, like much more. Luke Lindstrom: And, and Matt did this teaching during his webinar of like, you've done nothing wrong. And during that time, I felt like everything I was doing wrong, I felt like I couldn't make right choices. Like, uh, just like constantly feeling like everything that was happening was my fault, wasn't the case. You know, I was doing, I was doing shivanda yoga. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: I Matt Kosterman: But you had a story. Luke Lindstrom: It was all your Matt Kosterman: fault. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, I was, yeah. I was in college, like things were going okay. But it was like the, the, yeah, the, the idea of like, nothing ever felt good enough. And, uh, when I heard that teaching, it was just like, whoa. And, uh, then I, he, Matt had a YouTube channel and so I just started listening to his YouTube channel. Luke Lindstrom: Uh. Pretty much like every, like every day or most days. And, um, just like the great, and he would, he would answer session like questions sometimes for people. And they were just like, the greatest answers. I, there was like super deep, super spot on. Um, and I had seen other great healers like the, the somatic therapist. Luke Lindstrom: He, I've seen him, I've been, I've done a training with him and all his answers super on the money. He always seems like he has an answer. They're really deep. But, uh, Matt was just like a, it was just a different level of, of knowing that, uh, just kind of blew me away. Mm-hmm. And so I just started really resonated. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. I, and I, I really, for the next six years, just became obsessed with Matt's work. We listen, listened to through those six years, probably listened to pretty much every talk I could get my hands on, like multiple times. And, uh, to the point of like, I eventually like. I really believe like 99% of people would really benefit from like listening to someone that channels. Luke Lindstrom: But, you know, 99% of people would probably really benefit from listening to a Matt Con, he now teaches with his wife Joy Con. But, um, it got to the point where I, I started to get the gist. It's like, okay, I've heard this. I, I know, like I, I know how I, I I, you kind of start to hear enough where you're like, I think I, I, I think I've gotten the base like I under, I understand this. Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. And I was trying to get bored of listening to him. And kind of right around that time is when, um, I, like, there'd just be little things that happened of, like, I, I would go to send a text message and I would write it and I'd be like, huh. That wasn't really like what I was expecting to write. I thought I was gonna write something different. Luke Lindstrom: I ended up writing this thing that I really like and seems really profound, but it wasn't actually what I. Was intending to write. And, um, that can be, when you're starting out, that can be a little slippery slope because the, the thing about our ego is like, it helps, like within the stream, there's many different ways we can say something that would be helpful. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: And the idea, and with our ego has to learn how to say it in a way that's direct and honest, but also gentle. And then it's always kind of a balance of that. And, um, for me it's like, it's like the communication when I'm channeling is through energy and I'm just like translating the, the message and, but there is some leeway in how you translate it. Luke Lindstrom: And so, um, yeah, learning how to, learning how to be direct honest, but also gentle with channeling messages. And I, during this time too, uh, I was also teaching yoga and that always kind of felt like a channeled experience. Like I would feel energy come through me, um, and would feel like. Would feel it, it, you know, kind of, it would feel like something similar to, like, when I would go to healing workshops, like would feel like my heart more open after the class would feel, um, more energized and it, it, I could feel on some level, some energy coming through me. Luke Lindstrom: That and my voice would sometimes shift or something. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Luke Lindstrom: Like shift, it would become a lot deeper or, um, I feel like there would be more resonance. And so that was kind of the start. And, uh, I, I then was really feeling like, okay, I, I know a lot, I've listened to Matt Kahn, I've also been following Diana Cooper, I've also listened to a bunch of other teachers and really feeling like I need to share this. Luke Lindstrom: Like I shouldn't just be keeping all of this to myself. And so I just started doing talks. In, in my yoga class and the the first talk I, I did while it, you know, I still, it took me a long time to recover my public speaking ability and like, was probably really nervous and wasn't the greatest. I could feel very clearly this, the stream of energy coming through me. Luke Lindstrom: And I started to realize that it's, cha channeling isn't something that's God given. It's something that is a skill that can be grown. And it's something if you like, want, look at my YouTube channel, like the beginning, I had a hard time talking for more than eight to 10 minutes. Okay. And it didn't, it, it, it didn't feel super channeled. Luke Lindstrom: It felt like I could feel this energy. Um, but it felt. Like, uh, it felt like, oh, like me with maybe just a little extra of like, huh, didn't, didn't like a little extra of just like, didn't expect to talk about this, or, this seemed a little deeper than what I was thinking about saying, and, and then like that slowly to progress to, oh, like I, I'm, I'm giving this talk. Luke Lindstrom: And, uh, it seems to, it's, I'm listening to myself talk and it all is super concise and clear, but I feel like I'm just watching myself talk rather than I'm actually the one saying it. Doing the talking. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then as a like, and then. There would be other things of like, I would get, like my mind would be blank and I would get like a title for the next video. Luke Lindstrom: Like one of the titles I got was like, from Primal to Primordial and like, mm, these really, and it, there're just, and it just started to become more like the more it just started to grow mm-hmm. And started deepen and, uh, started to become more of like, it felt like, um, a, a much deeper version of myself stepping through on YouTube channels rather than, uh, just a, a light. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So a little, a little tangent. Have you, there's a book called The Primordial Code. Have you heard of this book? Luke Lindstrom: I have not. Matt Kosterman: I think you would really enjoy it. I Luke Lindstrom: probably would. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. It's, it's very good. It's just, it's a, yeah, it's a fascinating fictional account of an, of an island where the people live in complete harmony with each other and with the earth. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And they, they've learned these techniques from, um, indigenous tribes over the years and they're, and they, and they begin. Bringing people from, you know, call 'em Normies, right? Bringing people in to show them. They give them an experience of the island and see if they want to be part of this program to, yeah. Matt Kosterman: To begin spreading this. It's, it's, it's fascinating book. Oh, cool. Oh my gosh. Yeah. When you said primordial. So anyway, that's an aside. Um, and, and so what, what are the sort of, what messages are coming through these days for people? What's the, what's the theme? Luke Lindstrom: It is Valentine's Day. Honestly. I've been thinking a lot about relationships and a lot about romantic relationships. Luke Lindstrom: And I, I, um, have been, my, my experience relationships is very different from most people. Uh, I have. How so? Um, I haven't, I haven't had a romantic relationship. I'm 28 years old. I'm a virgin. Like, literally like, um. Which is a, a deeper tangent, like, uh, like was obsessed with pornography in high school, uh, would relate to, um, was really lost in sexual fantasies. Luke Lindstrom: And then I had experienced when I was 18 where I was like working at this gold fish swim school and there were threatening to fire me and my only coping mechanism was like to masturbate. And I ended up the goldfish swim school, dries out the skin, and I ended up masturbating, gaining a little friction burn on my penis. Luke Lindstrom: And all of a sudden I had to face like my addiction to pornography, my sexual fantasies. And right after that I did a, a pasta meditation because I was starting this yoga teacher training. And I literally watched my mind think about fantasies about sex the whole three days. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Luke Lindstrom: And, and just started, it was like a, it just really like, was like, I think from my journey, a lot of the journey has been. Luke Lindstrom: Getting completely lost in the wrong direction. And then the universe just kind of like pulling the rug out and being like, okay, now you have to face this. And, but the thing is that it was like, I, I was a loner, so I wasn't really like having sex. I was just obsessed about sex in my mind. And then all of a sudden I, I had to face, oh, like why was I even, I can't even have sex now. Luke Lindstrom: Like I, the whole thing is like, oh, pornography will make me better at sex. Matt Kosterman: Mm, Luke Lindstrom: yada yada, yada. And now I have to face this. And, and the gift of pornography uses a really high, as I started to find my way more and more out of it is I really started to see the pattern of, um, I. The pattern of I in pornography, there's, there's no type of getting to know people, right? Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. People just get naked, they start having sex, and then you, you start to see these people seem actually rather miserable. Like if you actually like, like look at their backstory and look at who they are, they don't seem quite happy. They, and, and they don't, don't seem like they really understand relationships or are capable of having deep romantic relationships. Luke Lindstrom: And there's a belief of, oh, if I casually date, if I date around, then I'll have a better understanding of the relationship, where I'll figure out the traits and characteristics and make a list. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Luke Lindstrom: And then when I find someone that applies to the list, then I'll find the right person. And so Matt Kosterman: checks all the boxes. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. And it just started to, it started to highlight to me that searching and seeking is, is, it's not, it's, it's necess when it comes to relationships. It's not the way in, in my, in my view, and, uh. Um, I, I then went through a, a big ex of, of facing that. And, and in high school, another, or in college, another thing happened of like, uh, eventually the friction burned, healed, but essentially right after it healed, um, I started to have like little symptoms, like kind of in my lower abdomen. Luke Lindstrom: It was affecting my reproductive system. So just like slightly discoloring the skin of, of my repa. But I felt so insecure about that. I was like a can of s sex. Mm-hmm. Like this is, and um, and so then I went through college and I ended up not really forming a lot, not really having a lot of relationships. Luke Lindstrom: The whole reason why I would've gone out to drink was to have. To meet, to meet a Matt Kosterman: woman Luke Lindstrom: to, right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And um, so I didn't do that and I just kind of sat with myself like, just like a really, it was like, really like a time of like contemplation and like digesting what the, my experiences in high school. Luke Lindstrom: But the realize, what you realize is if you sit with your darkness, you start to see through it and you start to see through, oh, I'm, I'm constantly trying, I'm constantly thinking that this, this person is, is gonna gimme some level of worth and value that I haven't found in myself. Or, or, or there's these really strong desires and cravings that are trying to get that and fantasies, right, that want me want to be fed. Luke Lindstrom: And, and, um, and I, I didn't have all, there was people I was attracted to in college, but I, I didn't because of all this insecurity, I didn't end up pursuing it. And I never got to know those people. And it's like. I started just to think and listening to Matt and starting to become more aware, I was like, okay. Luke Lindstrom: Like, well, if you can't miss out on relationships that, like the relationships you're meant to have, if you can't miss out on them, which some teachers teach and I believe, why didn't those relationships happen? And you just start to see the ways of searching, seeking codependency in, in a different way. Luke Lindstrom: And for me, resolving pornography meant that I had to, to bring it back into balance was like to go into the opposite of the pattern and to spend time alone. And then, uh, of eventually as I started get to a place of. Balance, which was spent all this time completely absorbed in sex, completely lost in codependency, thinking the only way I was gonna feel normal was to have a girlfriend, um, completely lost. Luke Lindstrom: And I need worth and value, and I'm gonna find that in relationship. And then the other side of it, of being completely going through a period of not having, I mean all, all through that time I didn't have relationships, but going through the of no longer using pornography of, and, and really starting to resolve some of those fantasies in my mind. Luke Lindstrom: Um, and coming to the other side of it, when I got to the other side, Matt started teaching a lot about soulmates. Okay. And, um, he talked about it as like, it isn't so much about searching and trying to find as it is becoming a person that could handle and receive it. It's a person that can actually, um, is healed enough of their codependency, healed enough of their, uh, projecting worth value, becoming enmeshed and clingy in relationships or projecting their worth and value on their relationship or the ways that we may be, might be avoidant and not really want to be kind or caring all the times towards the people we love. Luke Lindstrom: It's actually cleaning all that up within you first that creates the harmony within your field for you to attract another person. And, um, and so now I'm kind of in a place where I've just been constant consciously choosing of, there actually isn't really anyone that I've met who it's like, uh, I really want to be, there's people that are attractive. Luke Lindstrom: There's people that are easy to talk to. There's people that are into spirituality, but there isn't anyone that really is like. Wow, this is this person. There's people of like, oh, I see you have some great qualities. And I also can see these negative qualities. And, uh, I, I really believe that in order to get to, uh, in order for you to get to a place of wholeness, you can't be willing to settle and compromise in romantic relationships for, um, for, for someone who isn't quite meeting you as deeply as you would want, or has patterns that you've already outgrown or, um, isn't really, doesn't have the same level. Luke Lindstrom: Like for me it's like channeling and, and, and channeling is everything. It's a spirituality. Like, it's not something I lead with. Like, I'm on this podcast and, uh, it's, it's nice to be able to talk about this, but when I'm talking with people on the street, I don't talk about spirituality unless they ask questions, right? Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. I'm a human being. I have other in, I play guitar. There's other things I do. Um. And, um, and, you know, but spirituality channeling, it's the greatest thing I'm interested in. And it's the thing that I feel like is the only thing that really could leave an impact beyond myself. And it's like, I don't want to have a romantic relationship where I'd have to be teaching spirituality to them. Luke Lindstrom: And so then that rather limits the pool of least of the people I know in Chicago, of, of people that actually would be a partnership that I would be interested in. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Matt Kosterman: And the, and the, and the messages that are coming through are around healing in order to Luke Lindstrom: the Yeah. I mean, Matt Kosterman: to be in a better partnership with oneself, to be in a better partnership with others. Matt Kosterman: The Luke Lindstrom: message, the message is, I, I think it's just, it's around, I, I think it's about, you know, like. Resolving your need for a romantic, because if you needed a romantic relationship, it would be here. And so if, if it's not here, why do you think you need it? Mm-hmm. Right. That's the greatest thing to ask yourself. Luke Lindstrom: Why do I feel like I need this right now? What about this is going to add something to my experience that is absent right now? And is that something I can give to myself? Or do I truly need another person? Because if I feel like I need this, there's usually some level of my own needs. I'm not meeting that. Luke Lindstrom: I'm now projecting on a romantic relationship and. I, I think, you know, I'm a big believer of like, create, build, community, get to know people. Like, like if you get to know someone and, and without the anticipation or expectation of this is going to be my next partner, if you're like, no, I just wanna see who this person is and I'm gonna take those anticipation, expectation put in the trash can behind me. Matt Kosterman: Right? Right. Luke Lindstrom: Um, then there's no start of like, rushing into something and there's like, okay, just how well is this person meeting me? How well are we compatible? Are they in, are they are, are we gonna amplify each other's life? Or there are gonna be some things that are great and some things that really take away from for with Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: You know? Matt Kosterman: Well, I mean, I mean, going back to what you said about, you know, sitting in Ana, sitting, you know, looking at these things. I think, you know, ultimately there's two things at work we've been programmed to think that we need to have, we need to be in a relationship. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Um, and, and people are very averse, myself included. Matt Kosterman: I still have, you know, I still work with very averse to sitting with themselves. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: Just Luke Lindstrom: right Matt Kosterman: being with yourself. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And, and until you can just be with yourself, how can you be with another? Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. If you, you, if you allow aloneness to really take you, which, you know, I have unintentionally, that would've been kind of my journey. Luke Lindstrom: Like the universe set it up perfectly. Mm-hmm. Gave me the right programs. Aloneness just was something I sat with for quite a long time. All you find is, wow, I really love myself. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: Right? All you'll find is, oh, well Matt Kosterman: that's what you've found. Luke Lindstrom: That's what I found. Matt Kosterman: I mean, not everybody finds that. Luke Lindstrom: Well, Matt Kosterman: I mean, some people find it eventually, some Luke Lindstrom: people, you have to learn how to, even the, the sexual fantasies, how they resolved. Luke Lindstrom: Right. I talked about this. Mm-hmm. Lost in and after pornography, it lasted for like. F years. Mm-hmm. Like, my mind would just feel like it would enter, a portal would get lost in sexual fantasies for 20, 30 minutes would come out of it. Be like, I wasn't even horny. Like, and it, that would happen every day, maybe multiple times a day. Luke Lindstrom: And eventually I, what ended up resolving it is I, one day was I was working on the gym. I felt them coming on. I was like, it's gone to a point of, it's been years now. I'm just like, exhausted of having this experience. I don't wanna be fantasizing about sex. And I, I put my hand to my heart and I just said, I love you. Luke Lindstrom: Sexual fantasies. Mm-hmm. Thank you for being here with me. Thank you for teaching me how to love something. I don't wanna love with love. Thank you for teaching me how to sit with something I don't wanna sit with. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: Thank you for being, um, an experience of discomfort that is only helping me learn how to be comfortable in the discomfort. Luke Lindstrom: And I said that they went quiet for the, my mind went blank. Felt like I was getting pulled blank. Mm-hmm. Just pure black stillness in my mind. And what you realize is okay. Yeah. Being alone, you might not find, um, self-love right away, but it's learning how to love. Right. Being like a parent and when the cry child is crying. Luke Lindstrom: Okay. I love you. Like I love you honey. Like th thank you for showing me how you're feeling right now. Yeah. It's like learning to reparent yourself and, and you will find that if you spend enough time alone, you eventually will find it. Uh, like, but you can skip a lot of steps if you just start doing it at the start of your journey and Sure. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Yeah. Sure. And the thing was, I, I had Matt and he talks about a lot of stuff like that, so it didn't take me, it took me a couple years how to figure out with like my mental, you know, fantasies and stuff. But it, it. When you focus on love, all you will find is greater love. And, and all you'll grow is greater love within yourself. Luke Lindstrom: And at the beginning of my spiritual journey, something I would do is like, as I, as I was waiting for the train and stuff, I would just look at people and say, I love you. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: Under my breath. Mm-hmm. And I would just do repeat that. And, and there's many different ways to resolve your Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I mean, and that's, that's a small piece of, uh, the whole pono pono practice. Matt Kosterman: I don't know if you're familiar with the, Luke Lindstrom: I'm very familiar. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm sorry. I like that. Yeah. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. Right. You can change other, you can change worlds. You can change other people. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Your relationship with other people through that practice. Luke Lindstrom: Totally. Matt Kosterman: Um, and through Paul, I, I, I often, uh, will use the attunements that Paul Sig brings through of I know who you are in truth, I know what you are in truth, I know how you serve in truth. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Right. Matt Kosterman: And I'll do that when I'm. Walking through the neighborhood and I catch myself in judgment of others. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. ' Matt Kosterman: cause it's just this automatic thing, Luke Lindstrom: right? Matt Kosterman: That we do. I, I think that it Luke Lindstrom: is. Yeah, Matt Kosterman: we do. No, it totally is. I mean, I don't, I don't set out going, I'm gonna go around and judge people today. Matt Kosterman: You know? Luke Lindstrom: I think if you did that, like, I think only we, the avoidance of judgment is actually what allows it to be so loud. And when you, Matt Kosterman: but you're trying to suppress it, Luke Lindstrom: right? Yeah. You're trying to stop thinking that. Yeah. Right. Stop it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then it's actually, if you were going to go, I'm gonna judge people, the part of you that wants to be expressed through judgment would become quiet because it goes, now they're listening to me. Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. Right. It's just a crying. It's just a, a part of you that wants attention. Matt Kosterman: Right. And we, and we exist in a duality for a reason. We're here, there's, there's. Experiences that we think are positive, there's experiences that we think are negative. Totally. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And, and we automatically assign a val, you know Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Some level of value to that. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And, and, and you can, um, it can interrupt it. You can interrupt it. Right. Like you can, um, because ultimately the thoughts are going to come and to the extent that we resist the thoughts, they'll get stronger. But it goes to what you said of just, oh Luke Lindstrom: yeah, Matt Kosterman: I'm gonna judge. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Luke Lindstrom: Things can only take you over when you avoid them because if you're avoiding it, you're saying it's too scary for me to deal with. Which is essentially giving your power to that thing. Mm-hmm. Which then gives it more influence and pull over you. And, uh, I think, you know, with me, what I realized is it isn't so much about, and then there's the other pattern of I'm not aware of it and I'm feeding it. Luke Lindstrom: And it's about walking, uh, the, the line in between of like, if you were to say, okay, I am gonna judge people, you're just giving that part of you permission to be itself. And then it's like, okay, not maybe I journal judgments towards people as a way of actually pulling those weeds of judgments out of myself. Luke Lindstrom: And when you honor something for the way it is, it surrenders back into innocence. But when we try and avoid and not express it is when that part of ourselves. Will unconsciously be able to influence us or control our mind mm-hmm. Or to create judgments that we don't wanna experience in certain times in our life. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Or live in the body. I mean, I had experience recently, I've, I've, you know, I've been on this journey of healing from all this pelvic stuff. Yeah. And I'm working with a, a wonderful woman ingress, um, on up in Roscoe Village. And, and there's still been this remaining deep hip pain. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And, and she had me go into, while she was doing some, you know, some somatic work to literally talking to the body and saying, this is a holding pattern. Matt Kosterman: This is how my body holds. I now choose to release this holding. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And I could feel it then moving around and showing up differently and dissipating. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: You know, as it was recognized for what it was. Right. I don't, I don't, I don't need to know where it came from. Luke Lindstrom: You don't, Matt Kosterman: I don't need to know why it's doing that. Matt Kosterman: But the, the edges of it have softened as a result of Yeah. Of that. Luke Lindstrom: You just need to recognize and acknowledge it. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Right. It just wants to be seen. Right, right. And you know, I think oftentimes with pain in our body, it can almost feel like there's a wall preventing us from really being able to feel it. Luke Lindstrom: And I, I think, you know, that's a deeper question of, okay, why is this wall here? What, what, what does it think it's protecting me from? Mm-hmm. And, and I think curiosity is one of the greatest ways to uncover greater healing within. Um, within what's trapped inside of us. So, Matt Kosterman: yeah. So how, how are you, how are you engaging with people? Matt Kosterman: I know you said your, your day job is, um, is fascinating. Um, Luke Lindstrom: yeah. Matt Kosterman: Dealing with you, you work as a peer support, peer support and, and mental health facilities. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Yep. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And so that's, that's your day job? Luke Lindstrom: That's my day job, yeah. Matt Kosterman: So you get to see, I'm sure some incredibly troubled souls or misunderstood, or how would you characterize Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, I would say people that lost a lot of battles. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. You know, I think, uh, you know, people that are really given really bad cards and were not given any type of help or tools to find their way out of it, or people that, um, hit crossroads. Choose chose to continue to, um, choose self-fulfilling prophecies of destruction rather than to grow and to heal. Luke Lindstrom: And, uh, for most people it's probably a little of both sides of the coin. Um, but, you know, I think Matt Kosterman: And so you're there at basically just to, to listen and support Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. To provide emotional support to also help people move out, um, that wanna move out of these facilities and they're capable of doing it. Luke Lindstrom: Not everyone is, but um, some people are just there for, uh, just because they have nowhere else to go to. And, and some people are rather high functioning and, and just needed a place needed. Some, were gonna be homeless if the, this facility didn't exist and so end up there as well. And, um. It's, it's been an eyeopening ex experience of, um, I think it's, it's just taught me, you know, I think there's a lot of stigma around homeless people. Luke Lindstrom: There's a lot of stigma around people with disability and, and being there every day. It's really helped, you know, even me see the little ways of like, like we talked a little bit about this before the podcast of like, um, there's people there who are my age, who are like, same mental, cabbil, like abilities, high functioning people, and they, they relate to people there who are lower functioning, just as like a, like just they would like anyone else. Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. Like not as different. And I think different when we're treating people as different, it can be rather isolating even as children growing up, you know, when our parents treat us like a child, uh. Different can, can sometimes that needs to, sometimes the parent needs to set the rules and, and be the authority. Luke Lindstrom: And sometimes being treated like a child makes us just feel, uh, sometimes less than or different and, and see, and I think being there has really helped me see the ways of the still subtle things of stigma or the subtle ways of, of, of relating to people from a place of different, rather than they're just a human being that has ended up here, that might have gone through more struggles. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I mean, there's a, there in my own journey, I mean, I literally remember we were in, I went to school up in Wisconsin and we were down here for something, a, a holiday I, maybe it was the 4th of July, I think in the summer when we were walking over by what is now, I still remember it, probably drinking and walking over by what's now Maggie Daly Park. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And there was. A homeless guy on the bench. And, and my attitude was, you know, I think I yelled at him, Hey, get a fucking job. Right. I mean, this was the little shithead that I was, Luke Lindstrom: right, right. Matt Kosterman: Um, and then as, as I got older, you know, I realized, and as I started doing, you know, the work that I didn't, it scared me to look at these people. Matt Kosterman: I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna look at Right. I didn't wanna look. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And, and it was landmark, the landmark experience that helped to transform that. Luke Lindstrom: Nice. Matt Kosterman: Um, and where, you know, I think it was in the advanced course, which is the second course, and I remember going, they, you know, they said in order to, you can study this, these things. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, you can, you can talk about changing. Yeah. And you can study changing. But they always talk about in landmark, on the court, what do you do on the court? Right. What do you do in life? And I remember going to. For on a break going to Trader Joe's and there was a homeless person outside the Trader Joe's. Matt Kosterman: And I walked in, walked past him, and I stopped and I turned around and I said, can I get you something? Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And I bought him some food. Luke Lindstrom: Nice. Matt Kosterman: You know, not to pat myself on the back, but it was like, it was, it was a shift because like, they're humans Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: And and they're an aspect of us. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: And, and what if we all just fed them, Luke Lindstrom: right? Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Right. Matt Kosterman: Instead of looking for somebody else to do it. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Like, somebody's gotta take care of this. Luke Lindstrom: You Yes. Matt Kosterman: Right. Luke Lindstrom: Right. You be the change you wanna Matt Kosterman: see, be the change you wanna see. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And, and like Maharaji said to Ramdas, feed them. Luke Lindstrom: Right? Yeah, no, totally. For me it's like. I don't make a ton of money right now, but sometimes I give them money. Luke Lindstrom: But most of the time my practices of just like, can I listen to them? Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: How many people walk by and pretend like they are not there? Matt Kosterman: Right. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Uh, they don't exist. And like, uh, the people around my building that I, I, I talk to that are. Homeless or by the grocery store that I go to, it's like we've become friends. Luke Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. Like I made a new friend that we check in every time I go buy groceries and it's like, wow, this is, this is nice. Yeah. Like it's, it is. And uh, the, you know, I, I think one of the, one of the simplest ways to resolve homelessness is to treat 'em like human beings and treat them like a member of your community because they are Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Right. They're a part of your community. And when we try and pretend like they're different, we're just reinforcing the separation. Yeah. And the unworthiness that on some level somewhat feeds, feeds homelessness. And I also think with, with homelessness, it's like, um, Luke Lindstrom: it's, oh, I'm losing my train of thought. Well, Matt Kosterman: Paul, I, I, I always, I like what Paul, what Paul's guide said it was, and this was early on when I found Paul Sig and. You know, they said, you know this, our souls have incarnated in this, in this physical plane. Yeah. In order to learn Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: Things. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: And they said, if you want to learn a big lesson in humility Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: You incarnate as somebody who's unhoused, who's homeless, because you Luke Lindstrom: totally, Matt Kosterman: you will learn humility at a soul level. Right. In a way that Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Few people will learn it. Luke Lindstrom: Right. That's true. Yeah. And that's something I I see at my facility and, and the people I've talked with is, you would be surprised how happy these people are. Luke Lindstrom: A lot of these people are happier than, um, or some of 'em, some of 'em are happier than people with homes with, you know, there's a, with homes and money and Right. There's a minimal, there's a simplicity and a minimalist, uh, that really returns you to, um, not having to wear so many masks, which I think is what humility really teaches us to do. Luke Lindstrom: And I also think. Uh, they can be people that are homeless, can be incredibly genuine, incredibly. And there's a, at my facility, there's a guy who's, who's blind, and he will go off on people that aren't, he'll complain about people and not see they're in the room and, and, uh, they don't get mad. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: They don't, they're just, oh, it's just him being him and, and you know, there's many adults who can't do that. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Who can't, who can't have the humility of, I don't need to try and dominate this person for how they're complaining about me. And, uh, interesting. And I also think, um, you know, when you start to talk about unity, unity, from the way I see it is the belief of, okay, we're all in different bodies. We all have a soul. Luke Lindstrom: Um, but what's really bringing ourselves, what's bringing this body to life? And if you think about what's bringing this body to life, like a computer, like what if, what's bringing this body to life is like the electricity or the energy, and what if the, like, there isn't, there's different types of voltages of electricity, but it's all electricity. Luke Lindstrom: And so what if the person who's homeless is you in a different lifetime? Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: Right. And I think when we are relating to life from separation of, oh, I'm in a different soul. It's not my problem. Your soul is just the past lives, simultaneous lives that are giving you qualities and cha characteristics and, and a story and things to heal in this life. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Luke Lindstrom: Right? Mm-hmm. But the, the thing that really is what is animating you is, is, is. Um, the mystery, or you could say the mystery of light or, or it's, it's, it's a deeper aspect than just your soul. And, uh, if you relate it to someone as they're me in a different body, how much more kind, compassionate and caring would you be to them? Luke Lindstrom: How much more willing would you be to help them out? Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Right. And Matt Kosterman: I mean, can, can you start by looking them in the eye? Luke Lindstrom: Right. That's huge. Matt Kosterman: You start Luke Lindstrom: how many people don't do stuff like that? You start Yeah, totally. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Just look, just acknowledge them Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: As another human on this path, Luke Lindstrom: right? Yeah. Matt Kosterman: In, in, in, in a, in a body, in a, in a harsh pla and a place that can be pretty harsh. Luke Lindstrom: It's hardest thing. Yeah. It's one of the, you know, Matt Kosterman: this, this world Right. As as beautiful as it as it can be. It can be really harsh. Luke Lindstrom: Oh, it can be so heavy metal. Yeah. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a, you know, and. I talk about my, like I just talked a little bit about my journey and whatever I was in, need a lot of healing. Luke Lindstrom: It could be so much worse. Yeah. It, I have found people who's like, holy shit. Like, how are they, how, like, I, I went through something that I thought was barely, I was barely functioning and people have so much darker journeys than me. Yeah. And that is humility and, and recognizing that the, you know, people that are homeless, like how much shit must they have gone through. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Right. You, if everyone has an innate desire to be them best, they're a better version of themselves. How much, how many times had this person fallen down and no one was there to give them a hand? Matt Kosterman: Well, yeah. Well, and it's a very fine, I mean, I, I found myself. You know, on the brink of it. Right. You know, I had a five day eviction notice Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Five years ago, right. After having filed for bankruptcy 10, 10 years prior. Yeah. And been, and, and having a foreclosure and going through divorce and still not, and going and, and but on, for all intents and purposes from the outside view, looking fine. Right, right. Because it's what we do. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: We always wanna look good. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Matt Kosterman: And, and it's a very, you know, it, it's, there's a, I've seen firsthand there's a very thin line there. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: There's a very thin wall. Ultimately it's a, it's a, you're a few dis a few bad decisions. Luke Lindstrom: Totally Matt Kosterman: away. Yeah. And, and you can sometimes just be at the mercy of forces that are so far beyond you. Luke Lindstrom: Right. Yeah. You absolutely can Matt Kosterman: that, that, Luke Lindstrom: yeah. Matt Kosterman: Things can change very quickly. Luke Lindstrom: There's. Been times when I've been writing notes, like, like, uh, we have to write notes for when we spend time with people. Mm-hmm. And I, I go to write a note and I'm not really that focused and I type my name into that. It's like, ah, that's a wake up. Luke Lindstrom: It's like, you don't, like, you're not better. You're not better than this person. You know, you just have had, for me, it's like I had more help. Like sure my Matt Kosterman: right. Luke Lindstrom: My parents, you know, gave me stuff that I needed to heal. But they, mom, my mom took me to a therapist across the country. It's a whole to regulate my nervous system. Luke Lindstrom: Like people don't, who's an incredible healer. Yeah. Like people don't have, Matt Kosterman: they don't have Luke Lindstrom: opportunities like that. No. Uh, my mom paid for me to do a yoga teacher training in high school. Sure. Like, there's so many ways that, um, uh, my parents have been amazing and really helped me in a lot ways. So, Matt Kosterman: so, Luca out outside, outside of the amazing work that you're doing with these, with these folks, how you're channeling work, how do people find you? Matt Kosterman: You have YouTube. YouTube Luke Lindstrom: channel. I have YouTube. I'm channel all the socials. I'm on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. Um, it's either Luke, uh, Lindstrom, L-I-N-D-S-T-R-O-M, um, 11. 11 or Yeah. 11. 11. That's YouTube and that's TikTok. And then Instagram is Luke C Lindstrom. Okay. And Matt Kosterman: I'll put these in the, you know, the little notes down below for people. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. So you do right Weekly. Luke Lindstrom: I, yeah. Post, post a couple times a week. Okay. Um, uh, like little short form stuff, uh, I've been focusing on more lately. Um, Matt Kosterman: and are you working with people one-on-one? Luke Lindstrom: I am working towards getting people aware that I know things. Okay. Slowly but surely. Yeah. Uh, do readings here and there. Luke Lindstrom: Okay. Trying to build that out more. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Very cool. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Very cool. Well, thanks for being here. Time. Thank Luke Lindstrom: you for having me, me. This was great. Yeah. Yeah. No, really, I loved doing podcasts, so it was really enjoyed it. Yeah. Appreciate your time. Matt Kosterman: You bet. Luke Lindstrom: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Good stuff. Alright. Thanks everybody for tuning in and uh, we'll come at you next time. Matt Kosterman: Peace out. Thank Luke Lindstrom: you. Yeah, Matt Kosterman: thanks Luke.