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No More Neck Pain · Wellness In Every Season

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: We are talking about ergonomics in the modern work environment.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Wellness in Every Season.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: We talk all things wellness regarding the environment that you spend a lot of your time in, your physical health, your intellectual health, your financial health, your spiritual health, your professional health, your social health, who you have relationships with, your emotional health.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really big umbrella, so expect all kinds of topics within all of these amazing dimensions of your wellness.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Christine and I had a little bit of a chat before this, just talking about COVID and the shutdown and how much that affected us.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we will talk about that in a little bit.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: But let me first start off by talking about her, and then I'll talk a little bit about what led me to finding her.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: A licensed occupational therapist and certified ergonomic assessment specialist with over 10 years' experience in workplace ergonomics and injury prevention, thinking about making sure that you are in an environment where your spine is aligned.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's mostly what I think about.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And she specializes in ergonomics, so talking about that word again, and workplace wellness education and assessments with experience in healthcare, laboratory, and office settings.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: She is the current office ergonomics program director with the Rising Workplace.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: She is passionate about helping individuals create safer, more comfortable, and productive work environments and currently resides in North Carolina with her husband and three children.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yay for the East Coast.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I found her because I totally cheated and I used Chat GPT in a lot of pictures.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it still wasn't quite right because I had to use a lot of my own knowledge.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And ChatGPT tends to agree with you no matter what you found.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And but it really helped to take the pictures to see how I was aligned and what I was doing wrong because my neck was flaring up after car accidents.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I realized I was doing this, and right now you can't see, but I even have my legs crossed to make sure I'm aligned up here.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's already telling you something's off within my body.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I've gotten a new bed since my car accident.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've thought about alignment in my car, and along the way, my 12-year-old, he started middle school.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: His backpack is ridiculously heavy.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we are thinking about making sure it's his backpack's aligned with his body, doing the best we can.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: They allow lockers, but you have to get permission for it, and it's not anywhere near his classroom.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really thinking about his spine health here.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's everywhere, right?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Once you think about it in one situation, you think about it in others.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So this led me to finding Christina, and yay that she said yes, because I feel like this can be one of the biggest areas of that you've just in your life, and it will impact everywhere else, wellness-wise.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: It affects your energy, it affects pain levels, it affects emotions.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much there.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So Christina, thank you for being here.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I will let you fill in the gaps of everything I said, and then we can start with the questions.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: It it's very funny how he said, I mean, our personal and professional lives are always so intertwined.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was actually my personal life that got me into ergonomics in the first place.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, my husband is in IT, he works at the computer for 40 plus hours a week.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then he comes home and he's on the computer gaming or doing his own personal exploration.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's just the way of the world, right?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're constantly in front of our computers and screens, and he was having a lot of wrist pain.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I had my OT thinking tab on, and I was, you've got to be doing something at the computer because you're there so much.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: When I I took a trip to his office and I was shocked at what I saw, and that kind of inspired me to get more into ergonomics because I was if you're married to an OT and this is what your office just spent the books like, I bet people all over the the country are are facing this dilemma and just not knowing where to start.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, you can read blogs and you can look at articles and things, but sometimes it just still doesn't feel a hundred percent right.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's kind of what our company does doing one-on-one assessments, trainings.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: We really pride ourselves in being very client-centered and meeting people where they're at with what they have.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're not into pushing equipment.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have this new ergonomic mouse and this new ergonomic chair, because what we found is people spend a lot of money on things that are ergonomic, but it it might not be the right fit for them.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: There might be some user error, or it fixes one problem but creates a whole other problem.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of education, what we do, and a lot of just meeting people where they're at, which is why I really love what we do.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And let's start off with telling people we had a little bit of a powwow before we hit record.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you share this and take out the identifying information, this episode, and just block out that person's name, and you send me a screenshot via email, autumn at wellness of every season.com, you'll be entered into having a free hour one-on-one with Christina, and you're gonna go over your life and setting it up so it is aligned for you, so that we can help with the pain, the energy levels, anything else that is coming up for you.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing that I was going to say is do you also do this virtually?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like yes.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just what I just said, but let's make sure that's crystal clear for everybody.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So even before COVID, we were offering virtual ergonomic assessments with COVID.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: That was really all we could offer.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Then we really perfected that process.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it just makes sense, right?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of workforces who are hybrid or remote.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: There are people who might live in an area where we don't have a specialist that can get out to them readily.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or just also for the cost savings, our virtual assessments are a little bit less expensive than an in-person.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have that service offered.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people think, well, how's that going to work?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: How are you virtually going to assess my desk and my chair?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: To which point I say never underestimate the power of a picture because we ask for pictures ahead of time.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I can look at a picture and almost instantly tell what's wrong, what's off.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Ideally, you have a friend or a partner taking a picture of you in your workspace, not just the workspace.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: What does your body look like when you're sitting in your chair and interacting with the keyboard and the monitor?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we ask for pictures, and then with those pictures, we kind of go over the pictures with the person and then we walk them through exactly what they need to adjust.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: We offer our support.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe having a tape measure on hand could be helpful in case we need to get measurements right.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a very empowering process because we kind of give you the tools to make the adjustments because we're on the other side of the camera.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it works, it's great.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a lot of success with them.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just, it's a it's a really nice thing to be able to offer people who otherwise couldn't be seen in person.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And this is important to me, obviously, for personal reasons with the car accident that I just talked about.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I am working on a package that I'm very excited for, coaching-wise.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And included in that is working with this is why I found Christina, somebody who is an ergonomicist, so that we can really see what's going on in your home life, your home office, what's going on in your office office.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do things align with you?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because with this coaching package, I am coaching, but they are also experiencing other professionals, such as Christina.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I am very excited for this.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wanted to offer that other this is why this matters to me.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is why you should be listening.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start with the workday.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: What does a genuine ergonomic office setup look like?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And what are the most common mistakes you see?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So no matter where you're working, if it's at home or in an office, the basic setup, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: You've got your chair, your desk, keyboard mouse, and monitor, right?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty much the crux of it.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: We've gotten really far away from pen and paper models.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: But depending on your job, though, we still sit down, but it's it's mostly just that repetitive typing, repetitive mousey.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest thing that I think I see the issue with starts with the chair.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the chair is the foundation from which the rest of the body sets forth to interact with the keyboard and the mouse and the screen.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're not properly set up in your chair, it's like a domino effect.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got poor posture in the chair, it's going to creep forward and you're gonna have poor posture in the arms and the wrist and the neck and all of those things.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say the number one thing I see is just poor chair posture.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I see a lot of perching, a lot of sitting at the edge of the chair, and your back's not in contact with the back of the chair.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I see a lot of forward leaning, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're leaning into the screen, maybe you're resting your arm on the desk for support.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the two.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Around three o'clock, you start to see the slouch.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely see the sloping in the chair.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say of the two, the biggest is the perching and the forward leaning, which I say if you're already kind of not supported by your back, upper and lower back, then the neck tends to then go forward.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I see a lot of that forward neck, that turtling of the neck.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably the second biggest one I see, which could stem from the chair posture, but also has a lot to do with your screen placement of your screen, the type of screen or screens that you're using.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So those are probably the two biggest ones the chair and and the screen placement.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the ones that again, instantly I can see a picture and know what what might be happening in that situation.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the first two things that I fixed for myself.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this was my keyboard and my mouse.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I already have a desk that I can adjust, and it was changing the what it's the settings on my desk as well.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's still reminding myself of stand-up.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a standing desk.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're yes, yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that, I mean, that's a huge topic too in ergonomics, is the the sit-stand debate.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll definitely, I know that's a question we'll get into, but the standing desk is nice because another big thing I see is desk height, right?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm five seven, but somebody who is five one, that's a big difference.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so work us working at the same desk height is not going to translate the best for our bodies.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really like adjustable height desk, not just for the standing option, but for the lowering of the desk to the proper height, given your stature.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of times we think, oh, we have to work up here that might feel what's right, or because we're used to it, because of working at a fixed-hide desk all these years.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Desks are typically between 28 and 30 inches high.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: But ideally, you want to be working more down in your lab, pretty low, probably around 25 to 26 inches for most people.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone who's again, me, five and lower, you want to be around that 25 to 27 inches in height.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's interesting because it feels weird at first, but then people realize, wow, it my shoulders are relaxed, that's not up here typing.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I liken it to if you've ever played piano, but you don't play piano up here, it's it's down low, it's like almost in your lap.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really where you want the keyboard and mask to be too.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm thinking of all the places that I worked.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going through the resume in my head.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I am just under 5'9.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there are so many desks where I had to take the the under drawer out so that I had space for my knees.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the chairs were too deep.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was actually my office chair.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So now my husband has it because he's the one who talked me into buying it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's your body, not mine.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can and how back in the day with phone books, and I started working during the time when we didn't really use them.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's there, so I totally use those for my monitors, and I'm just thinking about all the different ways that I tried to adjust a desk for me after working there and feeling pain.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would think about that.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And especially when I had desk sharing and I was always taller than everybody else, it made it a little more interesting, especially when we would share the chair in particular.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: We'd always laugh at each other.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know you were sitting in my chair, type of thing.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope everybody else is having that moment of thinking through these things.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Even nowadays, we have desk sharing places where we go and rerent the space per hour, take adjust things for you.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: You will work better, you will have deeper thoughts, you will be able to really get through that project faster and you will sleep better.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like if I my husband is tall, if I were to go and borrow his car, I wouldn't be able to reach the belt, I'd be way too high.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like that.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna borrow somebody's car that's way off of your height, you take the time, you adjust the mirror, you adjust the seat, you adjust the steering wheel, you get set before you drive so that you're comfortable and you're safe.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And our desks should really be viewed the same.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times people will start a job and they'll just I just sat down and I started working.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really take the time until I was in pain to make the adjustments.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it only takes two minutes, three minutes, but it makes a big difference if you're gonna be there for eight hours a day.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Makes me think about the times where the car doesn't adjust to my setting.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: First world problem when it's after my husband's driven it and is oh, I'm running late, I'll just deal with it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I can't really see out the mirrors very well.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Pulling over, I'm fixing this.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we always tease because he's taller than me.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I tease that he likes to look at the ceiling, and he teases that I like to look at the backseat out of the rearview mirror.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's thinking about you're adjusting things for safety and also for comfort for driving.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let's back up and think about that in our work life and then in our home life and going to home life.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: We spend roughly a third of our lives, if we're lucky and get and take the time to get enough sleep in bed.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do our mattress, pillow, and sleeping position affect the way our bodies feel when we wake up?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's big.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of the two places that you are the most, it is work and bed.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're spending 40 plus hours sleeping, 40 plus hours at work.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so those are the two main areas we get asked about the most, especially if we're going into somebody's home that we're assessing their their office workspace.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Then the next question is, okay, how about my bed?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And what am I doing wrong here?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or what can I do that's better?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the same principles apply, right?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: When you're thinking about sitting at a desk, you want a neutral spine.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing when you're sleeping.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so neutral spine is when you have your ears aligned with your shoulders, which are aligned with your hips, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So everything is kind of in a nice straight line.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's no awkward postures, there's no forward hold posture, there's no rounding at the shoulders.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Those types of postures we call awkward postures, and they take us out of neutral.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And neutral is so important because neutral, it's the way that the body is designed, anatomically, physiologically, it's the way the body is designed to be at its most comfortable position, but also its strongest position and the most powerful position is in neutral.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime we fall out of neutral, we're compromising our muscles.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: They aren't as strong, they are shorter, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: The they can't actually work as effectively against the number one force of gravity that's coming down on our bodies.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: We don't always feel it, but our muscles sure do.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And they know the difference between fighting against gravity in neutral versus an awkward posture.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I teach a lot of people there's this exercise you can kind of teach to show the importance of neutral.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you take a pen or a pencil and the wrist, for example, is the number one kind of easy example of being in neutral, which would be like the hand shaped position, or non-neutral, which would be bent back, kind of toward you in what we call extension or bent forward inflection.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I say I see extension a lot more in the workplace, think like typing with your wrists kind of back.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we got neutral, lace and straight.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then this is an awkward posture.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: You I mean you can feel it.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: If you go from neutral to an awkward posture, you feel it.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: You feel the strain on your muscles.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: But if you were to hold a pen, let's say in neutral and try to grasp it, have a really strong, firm grasp, comfortable, and it's strong.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if I were to ask somebody to try to take this pen out of my hand, it would it would be a little bit of a challenge, right?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm I'm exerting max effort here with my muscles and I feel good about it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: But if I were to put my wrist now in extension and try to hold that pen, I'm not getting as good of a grasp on it.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: I can feel it.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: My muscles aren't working as effectively, I can't hold it as tightly.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if somebody comes to try to pull it out, it's gonna be a lot easier for them because I just I'm not working at a hundred percent.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just kind of shows you how amazing the body is.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's already designed that way to be efficient and neutral.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're sitting at a desk or when you're sleeping, keeping a neutral spine is gonna be the most important thing that you do.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: So looking at sleep, for those of you who like to sleep on your stomach, not the most neutral posture, all that might be comfortable at the time, you're gonna feel it the next morning because you're not you're if you're sleeping on your stomach, you have to turn your neck, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to breathe.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where you get misalignment number one.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, your neck is no longer in neutral.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So for sleeping, the best thing is side sleeping or back sleeping, and then using pillows and using things to kind of prop up your spine and making sure that it's aligned instead of you don't want to be sinking into your mattress.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Firm is good, but it doesn't have to be so firm that you're uncomfortable.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: You want to have some give to the mattress, but you don't want to be sinking into it.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where pillows come in handy, like putting a pillow between your legs or putting a pillow under your hip.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you're kind of propping that up and keeping the spine aligned.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And especially under the neck, in between the neck and the bed, you want just enough where you're filling in that gap, but not propping the neck so much forward or letting the neck slump so much downward.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really about getting being comfortable, of course, but finding that position where you can achieve just keeping the spine neutral and the ears, shoulders, and hips aligned.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: That reminds me when you're talking about gravity.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: I told you we talked about this if we got a chance.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess I'm mentioning it.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: When I was seeing my physical therapist and he Caught me on my phone.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't even working with me yet.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was working with somebody else and went to the front to grab something and then was going back.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he reminded me how heavy the head is.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think he said 12 pounds.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of importance in making sure that you are staying neutral here.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, it's all going forward.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he was reminding me don't put your neck forward, put your arm for your phone.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I now make sure that my kids do that too when I look over when they get their 30 minutes of tablet time.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, bring the tablet up.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not your hood.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's actually for every one inch that you move your head forward, you're adding 10 pounds to the weight of the head.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you might start out at 12, but if you go further enough, there's this picture, it's called the 42-pound head.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like if your neck is out this far, it now weighs 42 pounds.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that is all being sustained by the muscles, the ligatures and bones and everything, the discs of your spine has to hold that 42-pound head against the force of gravity the whole day.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's really damaging to the body.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I've discovered hypermobility can be hard going the other direction because sometimes I go to make up for it.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's too far back.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Finding neutral again with my neck.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm sure that brings it in.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you see a lot of people who are hypermobile and thinking about that within their desk in their workplace.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, you work with people in their workplace, but it is interesting how so many of those people are asking you about their home life as well because they're realizing how one affects the other.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also, too, they're like, hey, if I'm making the corrections at my desk, I don't want to undo that, right?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: But then going to bed.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I worked so hard to get my desk right.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to, I don't want to reverse and go back.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really admirable because it is, it's like you have to look at the whole picture because sometimes it's not just coming from your desk, it's coming from the bed, it's coming from the way you we were talking about shoveling your driveway, the way you pick up your children, the way you hold a backpack, a purse.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's ergonomics isn't everything, which is why I love it so much.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as an OT, it was just a perfect fit because it just it made sense.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: It made sense.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you, the person, aren't interacting with your environment in the most optimal way, then your engagement and your performance in occupations is going to suffer.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's what makes us human, our occupations.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's really it expands into the whole the whole gamut of of your length.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my question that wasn't planned.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is do you see this with your clients?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or let me figure out how to ask this.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: How many have a car that does not fit them?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Does that exist?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Having that car where it literally does not fit you?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can't make the adjustments, or do yeah.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure how to ask.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's a new point.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, cars have come a long way as far as their adjustments and what they're able to do now, which is which is huge, a lot more adjustable features than than before.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I had somebody call us actually a couple months ago.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: She was given a car from work, and she was a taller individual, she was two, and they gave her a Honda Civic, and she was no disrespect to Honda, but I am way too big for this car.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And work was willing to give her a different car if she could justify it.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And she was, how do I justify it?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so she had reached out to us about well, what are the proper heights of the car seed?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what are the adjustments I'm looking for?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the distance between me and the steering wheel and the the seat and all of that.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a real problem for her because she was, I need to be able to work out of my car, but this current car is just too small.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so she said, Hey, if I was the consumer and I was buying a car, I would be looking at it very differently than work who was just giving me a car.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that was one of the instances where it was, okay.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, she really needed a totally different car.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: There was one other instance where there was an individual too, also working out of his car and he was in a truck and he needed something much more spacious, not just for his body, but also just he was physically setting up a laptop and a keyboard and all the things he was setting up to do this job out of his car.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was just too small of a space.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes she ran into those issues, but I would say most people have the a car that's sufficient, they just don't know how to set it up.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they're playing with the adjustments, they're playing with the height and the steering wheel, and it still just doesn't feel right.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes it's just as simple as, well, you're sitting in in your chair in the car and you've got it low when really, no matter what height you are, five five foot or six foot, you want your hips always to be higher than your knees.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Don't want your knees and your hips to be parallel.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: You definitely don't want your hips to be lower than your knees.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Even the slightest inch or two of the hips being higher than the knees is gonna take off so much lower back pressure and just make it more comfortable to sit for a long time.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's an easy car adjustment that most people aren't aware of, and it's easy to to do.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's sometimes it isn't so much the car, it's just like I said, knowing how to adjust what's already there.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't have to buy a new car, you just have to get familiar and adjust yourself with what you currently have.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that is I love that point of very few people need to get a new car or new to them car.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And for others, it's just really thinking about that alignment.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I know several people when I've gone and I've adjusted the steering wheel, they're like, Well, you can do that.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can adjust up and down, in and out.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Most people don't even know, even on old cars, you can do that.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's it's it's funny.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: I laugh about my job because somebody will call them in so much pain.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried everything, I've bought every product, and you think to yourself, Am I really gonna be able to help this person to in their their account, they've tried everything, they've done everything.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you walk in and you're okay, this is why I have my job because they haven't thought about these very basic, simple principles of neutral postures and just basic body mechanics and and things that they just they thought they hadn't right, but they didn't.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I love my job because sometimes it's just the simplest thing that creates a huge aha moment for people.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And they realize I didn't need to buy all this expensive stuff, I didn't need to spend all this money and time.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was really that simple.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Phew, okay, I'm gonna help that help that person because people sometimes are so adamant.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've really tried everything, nothing else is going to help me.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you feel that way with your car, there's always something.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's always something we can adjust or teach people about that they might not have considered before.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you're the professional in this field.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Keeps me in a job.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you are gonna go and be able to do really hard HVAC or plumbing.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's why there's professionals in those fields, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: You could never reminder.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and that's why I like it too.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: No two days are the same.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one day I can be in somebody's home office, and the next day I am at a metal junkyard helping people who are working on the processing line and lifting and picking up heavy pieces of metal, or I go into a hospital and I work with surgeons who are working on a the Da Vinci robot when their necks and arms are hurting because they're leaned over, working on this robot for hours, saving lives.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And here I come in and I'm wow, I actually get to help you.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is amazing because you're so busy helping other people who's helping you, and that's why I like what I do.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let me ask you the last question that you're gonna answer in my newsletter to keep that conversation going.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Also, notice that she mentioned her blog several times.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when we ask her for her details, head over there.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: We've already talked about that one.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: How much does movement matter compared with having the perfect setup?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Can staying in one supposedly good position for hours still cause problems?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's the question that you're gonna answer in the newsletter.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're about to tell me, answer this one.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Where can we find you to work with you, with your company, and then with you specifically?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we are the rising workplace.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: You go to our website.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Our website has our blog is on the website with many, many, many entries, not just about work ergonomics, Billy had said ergonomics with childcare, ergonomics with backpacks.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about ergonomics of sleep, we talk about lighting, ergonomics.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there's topics for everyone.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think our blog is really great.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I myself and our team of professionals contribute to the blog.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got a really great staff of people who have been doing this for many, many, many years.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of us have backgrounds in OT.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Some of us have backgrounds as athletic trainers, physical therapists, but somehow or another we all found our way to ergonomics and have certifications in those as well.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you can find us on our website.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: We also are on Facebook, Instagram.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Those are great ways to connect.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Our phone number and our email are on our website.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: We get inquiries all the time.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: So anybody can reach out that way.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of have a standard form on our webpage, too.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you wanted to just type your name and email it and ask any questions, there's a how can we help open a field where you can submit a request that way.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's information about all the services we provide on our website.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we also have recently just started getting into offering courses.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So for anybody who might already be a healthcare professional or just a safety professional and want to do this or learn more about it, we have courses on our website too, where you can become certified in office ergonomics or healthcare ergonomics or take a special interest course on lighting or ethics and ergonomics.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we're really excited about that because we want to bring other people to the field.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: We want other people to get involved in ergonomics and become consultants and go out there and help people, whether it's on their own, or if you work in a hospital and you want to be that go-to ergonomics person for training people, safe patient handling techniques.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: So where you work in an office of a hundred people and you want to be the go-to ergonomics person when people have issues.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we created these courses.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: How amazing would it be the office manager was trained in this and made sure that because it increases productivity.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: People aren't having to take off time to go for pain management, chiropractor, or whatever.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're not needing to take a break because their wrist is killing them.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many coworkers that have had to take time off for a week at a time because their wrist has flared up.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much research in there, not just the physical benefits, but the cost savings of ergonomics.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: The scene costs, and then the unforeseen costs of, like you said, workers' comp, time away from work, turnover, absentee, and stuff.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's productivity, there's huge, huge numbers in savings with ergonomics.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not always seen right away, right?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: They see, okay, well, if I buy so-and-so, a new chair, everybody's gonna want a new chair.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there's always that kind of fear of opening Pandora's box with ergonomics, which is why, again, we tout, you don't need to buy everybody a new chair.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Let's work with what you have, let's kind of just provide more education from that standpoint.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, it's it's we get calls all the time from HR companies looking to help people.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it would it would be a huge cost savings too if they had somebody internally doing that that can just kind of be the go-to person.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or even for onboarding, you get a new person, set them up right out the gate, have them meet with the ergonomics person in your office, get them set up good so that they stay with you.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: You want them to stay with you, you want them to be productive.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: A biggest expense is turnover of employees, especially if it's a fast turnover.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Makes sense.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is and we do offer that train the trainer courses.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll have a group of four or five people from an office meet with us for several hours.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: We'll train them on how to do assessments, what to look for.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then they get to go out and do a mock assessment of their coworkers, and then we review their reports, give them feedback, answer any questions they have.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of a nice model because then then they feel a little bit more empowered to go out and do that for their their co-workers for the future.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we're all for giving everybody the tools to be their own boss type of a thing.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: How to fit.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody should know what we know.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: And again, share a screenshot with me through email, autumn at wellnessevery season.com of you sharing this episode and you get an hour free of working with her.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for your time and thank you for giving this to our listeners as well.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know how big of a difference it's made for me on my journey to really think about my life and my my alignment when I'm sleeping in both of our cars.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm borrowing somebody else's car at my desk, if I'm taking because I have a laptop, if I'm taking and moving my office somewhere else because a kid is sick, if I'm working in the living room or wherever, that I'm really thinking about is my body aligned?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Am I feeling pain anywhere?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's telling me that something is messed up, that I'm doing something wrong.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I had more interesting dreams where I'm running through a forest.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Those kind of dreams where they're not really scary, maybe they're more adventurous or processing something in my sleep, and I'm doing this with my wrists, or maybe doing the opposite with my wrists on the computer.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: My wrists feel that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it affects my energy level.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, really taking that time to think through those things for myself.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've realized that how much that will help my clients, and then it led to that's gonna help my listeners as well.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this affects everybody.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter what you do for a living, it affects you.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this is important.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Please share it.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for reaching out and for having me on.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I look forward to the one-hour assessment with the lucky winner of the giveaway.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it'd be a time to review your office setup or any questions you have in general about working from the couch, sure, working from your dining room table or your bed, and just any kind of questions, anything specifically you want to pick my brain about, I'm happy to answer.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining our discussion.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed this, please like, subscribe.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Most of all, share the love with others.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Please share this episode so that we can help other people really recalibrate every aspect of their lives so they can be the best version of themselves.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I will see you in the next episode.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: I want to have my quick disclaimer here that this is not a one-size-fits-all.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you want one-on-one coaching, let's talk and we will make sure what wellness means to you is really put into your life, put into practice.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I am using my undergrad in applied health and my life coaching experience to bring this podcast to you.