Latest / The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated / Updates on the blockade, negotiations, and the Senate reconciliation bill

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Updates on the blockade, negotiations, and the Senate reconciliation bill · The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College, All Things
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hillsdale at Hillsdale dot ed or I encourage you to
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: take advantage of the many free online courses there, and
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: of course I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogue all of
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: them at Hugh for Hillsdale dot com or just Google,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Apple iTunes and Hillsdale Morning Laurie and even Grace America.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewett inside the Relief Factor studio inside the Beltway.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Want your mind everyone at the top of the hour.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Once in a while, I'm in the Relief Factor's studio,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and I'll tell you a little bit about that at
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the end of the segment. But Mary Katherine Ham is
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: kicking off today's show. She is the host of Getting Hammered,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: she's a host of Normally. She is my friend. She
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: is a Fox News contributor. But Mary Katherine, you surprised
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: me yesterday with your Getting Hammered, and you almost made
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: me stumble on the trundle path because out of nowhere
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: you're interviewing Sarah Isker, and I am interviewing Sarah Isker
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: today in the third hour. Yes, and I never listen
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to interviews of authors when I've read their book, because
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: that will get into my head and I'll be interviewing
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: them about the interview they did. So you need to
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: like have a warning label.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I should you know what it did? Say bonus right.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: So it's not a traditional episode, but yes, I should
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: have personally texted one of our devoted fans and just.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Say I'm doing you're probably going to talk to Sarah
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: the book about the Supreme Court. I really do recommend
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: it to you. I can't wait to talk to her
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: about Last Branch Danny, because she's very funny, and most
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: court books are not funny at all, even the justices
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: when they write a book. You might get a little
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: tiny joke out of Amy Cony Barrett or Stephen Bryer,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: but they're not like giggle fests.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's a very gifted writer and a gifted speaker,
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: and she's a lot of fun to listen to.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: So she'll be fun on your show as well.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: And she brings out the fun and the fun facts
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: and the good times.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: On the Supreme Court history. So I enjoyed it very
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: much as well.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Missus Scully is meatballs. So let me ask you this,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Mary Catherine, I ask Sarah in my outline here what
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: does she want to do when she grows up? And
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I really have no idea, And I want to ask
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: you the same thing, what do you want to do
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: when you grow up? You've done everything, Sarah's done everything.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Do you have a plan?
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  Speaker 2: I don't have a.
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  Speaker 3: Plan, because the plan is mostly to make sure that
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  Speaker 3: my kids get on the right path of some kind
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  Speaker 3: in this new world that we're building. So I think
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  Speaker 3: to the extent that I work, and I really enjoy
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  Speaker 3: my work, and I'm working for things that I believe
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: will make the country better for them. I also am
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: working to educate them so that they can continue to
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  Speaker 3: have good lives and to have faith in their lives,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: and that's mostly my focus.
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  Speaker 2: Do I think maybe I have another book in me?
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Sure?
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  Speaker 2: But writing is hard.
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  Speaker 1: H Oh, I'm not doing it again. The return on
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: investments not worth it. But you've got fifteen years left
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: in the house parenting. You've ever stopped being a parent.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Great story about Sandrade O'Connor is that she would hang
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  Speaker 1: up the phone and her secretary would always hear her
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  Speaker 1: say it never ends, and her three boys were like
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: in their forties, it never ends. So parenting never ends,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: but they're out of the house in another fifteen years.
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  Speaker 1: What do you imagine the after is.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I need to learn to garden. I've never been
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: good at that. My mom has taken that up in
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: her retirement, so I will consider that. And I would
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: like to learn to play the guitar. There you Hugh,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: there you go.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, well now I know. Now let's go to the
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: serious stuff. The war headline in the Wall Street Journal,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Iran's shadow fleet meets its match in the US blockade.
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  Speaker 1: What a surprise, The United States Navy can overtake and
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  Speaker 1: stop aging tankers that are acting illegally. We've been doing
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  Speaker 1: that since the nineteen nineties. What do you think the
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  Speaker 1: endgame is here? Mary Catherine?
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  Speaker 3: I'm you're never sure with Trump, but I do think
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: I think I was listening to Shihi.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Give a bit of a lecture on how all.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: These things are connected Venezuela and Iran and sort of
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  Speaker 3: taking out a status quo world order that made China
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  Speaker 3: very happy because it was getting cheap oil. And right
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  Speaker 3: now in this conflict, obviously we're changing the game once again.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, I was a little worried during.
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  Speaker 3: The ceasefire that never happened, that Trump would not resume
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  Speaker 3: what any sort of aggression, but it seems like economically
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  Speaker 3: he's perfectly willing to do that and militarily by doing
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  Speaker 3: this blocking. I also think it's interesting, both in Lebanon
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  Speaker 3: and in the straight up form, it's like, you know,
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  Speaker 3: the sort of international law fans tell us, oh, oh,
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  Speaker 3: it's so aggressive what we're doing.
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  Speaker 2: We're blockading, and it's like, well, this is the Navy's job.
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  Speaker 3: This is what the US military does is keep these
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  Speaker 3: shipping lanes open, Like this is how it should be.
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  Speaker 3: Same with Lebanon, where it's like, oh, Israel's firing into
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  Speaker 3: southern Lebanon and trying to get Hesbelo out. Hesbelo was
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: supposed to be out in north of Lulatani in two
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  Speaker 3: thousand and six. Like these are things that should already
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  Speaker 3: have existed, an order of the world that should have
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  Speaker 3: existed in the international law. Fans just suddenly turn a
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  Speaker 3: blind eye to it as long as it's a run
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  Speaker 3: making the damage. And I find and then when America
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  Speaker 3: asserts itself, they're like, ew, we don't like that.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Why this is the most stunning thing I've heard. This week,
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  Speaker 1: John pod Oritz not a fan of Donald Trump. Right
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: fair to say, critic of Donald Trump, but when he
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: gets a win, he notes the win. John's an umpire
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: calling balls and strikes. John said yesterday, and I really
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: sat up when I heard him say this on the
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  Speaker 1: commentary pod forty percent of America would rather see America
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  Speaker 1: lose the war than Donald Trump Trump win a war conclusively.
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  Speaker 1: And I had to listen to it twice. And that's
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  Speaker 1: what he said. And I am assuming he's basing that
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  Speaker 1: on good research of them America would rather have Us
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  Speaker 1: lose of war than have Donald Trump win one. What
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  Speaker 1: do you make of that?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think that may be true.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know the exactual exact numbers, but I think
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  Speaker 3: it's compounded by the fact that not only do people
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  Speaker 3: many people dislike Donald Trump, but they dislike the display
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  Speaker 3: of American capabilities.
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  Speaker 2: They do not like the use of American might.
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  Speaker 3: That's why many of our brethren in this city were
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  Speaker 3: happy to watch Obama give around whatever they wanted for negotiations.
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  Speaker 2: They don't want the alternative.
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  Speaker 3: They do not want a world order established and continued
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  Speaker 3: by American military superiority or by the way our cultural
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  Speaker 3: or economic superiority. They don't like the idea of that.
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  Speaker 3: They have been educated for two generations now, many of them,
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  Speaker 3: that none of those things are real, that in fact,
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  Speaker 3: all of our superiorities are bad, that they make us bad,
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  Speaker 3: and that enforcing any of that makes us bad and
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  Speaker 3: bad intentions. And so I think the compound, the combination
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  Speaker 3: is pretty pretty bad for support for a war effort
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  Speaker 3: combined with and this one is fair. Twenty years of
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: the War on Terror made people quite war weary. And
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  Speaker 3: I think that's how JD. Vance comes by his more
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  Speaker 3: restrainer take takes, honestly, because he was involved in that.
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  Speaker 1: All right. Now, Iran is, I think, without debatable points
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  Speaker 1: being made in their favor, the equal of any evil
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  Speaker 1: regime on the planet. They've just gunned down thirty five
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  Speaker 1: thousand of their own people. And that's the low end estimate.
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  Speaker 1: And I know, I get people on X give me
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  Speaker 1: the proof, give me the proof. I'll go with the
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  Speaker 1: human rights groups. Thirty five thousand minimum. That's a horrific massacre.
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  Speaker 1: They're evil, evil, evil people. It's not a democracy, it's
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  Speaker 1: a theocracy. And do we have the Marco Rubio.
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  Speaker 4: These people are lunatics they are insane. They are religious
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  Speaker 4: zelots who can never be allowed to possess a nuclear
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  Speaker 4: weapon because they have an apocalypse the vision of the future,
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  Speaker 4: and all of their neighbors know that, by the way,
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  Speaker 4: which is why all of their neighbors have been supportive
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  Speaker 4: of the efforts.
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  Speaker 1: Working So Barry Catherine, I think that's the strategic win
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  Speaker 1: of this campaign, is getting Marco Rubio to speak that
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  Speaker 1: bluntly about that regime.
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  Speaker 3: Look, and I think the Arab States are seeing it,
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  Speaker 3: the Gulf States are seeing it. Lebanon's the Lebanon government,
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  Speaker 3: not HESBLA, is talking to Israel openly.
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  Speaker 2: About like, go, hey, how do we get these guys
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  Speaker 2: out of here?
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  Speaker 3: That normalization those alignments is pretty remarkable just on its face,
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  Speaker 3: even if you take away the military successes that have
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  Speaker 3: been many of this campaign, and I think it's largely
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  Speaker 3: being overlooked. But he spoke bluntly, and I was also proud,
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  Speaker 3: are also glad to see Vance speak bluntly when he
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  Speaker 3: came out of his twenty one hours with the Iranians
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  Speaker 3: instead of doing Georgetown Foreign Service School thing where you
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  Speaker 3: go all productive talks and also we're going to figure
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  Speaker 3: out what else.
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  Speaker 2: We can give them to get them to sign on
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  Speaker 2: the line. He said, these people are being intransigent. This
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  Speaker 2: is who they are.
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  Speaker 3: And so I think if you can't recognize that that
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  Speaker 3: defanging that regime at the very least could be a
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  Speaker 3: look toward.
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  Speaker 2: A better world order.
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  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, you might be preoccupied with your hatred
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  Speaker 3: of Trump and other things.
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  Speaker 1: Now, what are your minimum red lines for winning? And
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  Speaker 1: I'll tell you mine upfront. We have to have the
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  Speaker 1: straight open and they can't be sending their fast boats
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  Speaker 1: out to harass us. They can't be dropping mind. Number two,
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  Speaker 1: they have to give us their uranium. Those are my
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  Speaker 1: two red lines. What are yours?
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  Speaker 3: Those sound very reasonable. I'm not sure how the uranium
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  Speaker 3: comes about. I guess because that's the very buried stuff. Correct,
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  Speaker 3: So that sounds like varied a whole operation. And I
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  Speaker 3: do take heart in the fact that the kneecapping such
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: that it has been thus far, would make it extremely
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  Speaker 3: expensive and extremely hard.
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  Speaker 2: For them to do much of anything with that.
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  Speaker 3: But yes, I think those are two basics. The part
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  Speaker 3: where what I fear is that many this country and
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  Speaker 3: minting the media will need around to concede it's lost
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: and it's never going to do that because, as Rubio said,
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: they're lunatics.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: They're lunatics. They're never going to say we lost. They're
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: going to be like Joe Frazier on the canvas saying,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: or No, at Rocky, there isn't gonna be a rematch,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Apollo Creed, there isn't gonna be a rematch. Mary Catherine Ham,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: You've got a brand new getting hammered out there with
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Sarah Floras on Last Branch Standing. I recommend it to
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: everybody who doesn't want to interview Sarah to themselves. So
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: go and get that and I'll talk to you again
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: next week. Don't go anywhere, America. I'm d D Quarterback America.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Hugh Hewett inside the Relief Factor studio inside the Beltway
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: on the Salem News Channel, Salem Radio Network are wonderful affiliates.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I'm joined now by Noah Rothman, senior writer for National Review.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Noah and yesterday segment with Rich Lowry, I demanded that
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: you get three times your allocation of time on the
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Editors podcast because you're the only person who's right about
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: the war.
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: It's very generous of you. I saw that segment.
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: Actually, I thought Rich was very reasonable I didn't have
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: any disagreement with him there. We do have some disagreements
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: on the editor's podcast.
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: But that's what makes for a good show, right.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, and their informed disagreements. Now bottom lining it, what's
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: a win, A clear, decisive absolutely knowe can argue with it.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Win for Donald Trump?
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm with you.
• 11:26
  Speaker 6: I think that from the American strategic perspective, our objective,
• 11:30
  Speaker 6: which is not necessarily Jerusalem's objective, is the surrender of
• 11:33
  Speaker 6: this nine hundred pounds of highly enriched uranium, and that
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: can happen any number of ways. The foremost most advantageous
• 11:41
  Speaker 6: way would be voluntary surrender in a negotiated settlement.
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: And it would be a negotiated settlement.
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: It would include some concessions from US, hopefully not significant concessions,
• 11:49
  Speaker 6: but likely sanctions relief. Nevertheless, I'm not concerned with that
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: suggesting that we've somehow lost the advantage in this war.
• 11:58
  Speaker 6: Unlike John Behorritz, who I admire and I share his
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: concern about the continuation of this regime, the threat posed
• 12:05
  Speaker 6: by this regime will not abate so long as it exists.
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: But I am not completely unfavorable to the prospect of
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: regime change. Slowly over the course of structural reforms, and
• 12:17
  Speaker 6: I'd love to see a gigantic collapse of this regime.
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: It will provide a big dramatic period on that on
• 12:22
  Speaker 6: this war, but it's not necessarily something we have a
• 12:25
  Speaker 6: lot of historical parallels for.
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  Speaker 5: And we can see.
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: The prospect of working to undermine this regime in phase three,
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: which nobody has sworn off. Phase three of this regime,
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: which is fomenting resistance from within, rebellion from within, that
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: can happen alongside the regime providing concessions to us in
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: the form of a the surrender of this nuclear material
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: and be the decimation of its capacity to disrupt the Strait.
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: And I don't think that can be a negotiated agreement.
• 12:52
  Speaker 6: I think that has to be under duress. It has
• 12:53
  Speaker 6: to be done with the American military assets in the
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: Strait imposing our will on the Runian force and the
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: RADI enforces being unable to respond. I think those two
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: conditions have to be met in order for it to
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: be an unqualified success. Still kind of a high bar,
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: but it's eminently foreseeable that those two things can happen.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Now. One of the alleged red lines we laid down
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: in Islamabad was no enrichment for twenty years, which is
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: fine by me, because that's like saying I insist on
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: being eligible for the NFL draft in two weeks. I
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: insist on it, and they can give me that. I'm
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: not going to be drafted. They're not going to be
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: enriching in twenty years, because it's a long time for
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: that regime to limp along. Does that bother you any
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: kind of a twenty year out there in Richmond because
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the JCPOA people will say, oh, that's just what we did,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: and it's not.
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: It's not, but it does bother me.
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: I don't want this administration to relax its standard, which
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: has been very consistent even from the first term. No
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: domestic enrichment capability, none, zero, whatsoever, and no desire to
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: create that re or that build up some sort of
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: a cascading shin refuge ray and an undeclared site. Very
• 14:04
  Speaker 6: hard to do this, I mean, this activity is the
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: sort of thing you can literally see from space. Very expensive,
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: very time consuming, and requires a lot of technical expertise,
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: and many of the individuals who have that expertise are
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: no longer on this Earth.
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: Inside Iran.
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: So I am concerned about the principle that we would
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: be seeding in that agreement, not necessarily Iran's capacity to
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: make good on it, but I just don't think we
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: should be even giving the legitimacy to the notion that
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: Iran has a weapons grade capacity, you wrenchment capability. Domestically,
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: no other state in the world that has a nuclear
• 14:38
  Speaker 6: program needs that. And we've offered, counter to this reporting,
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: which I find very suspect, We've offered to give them
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: low enriched uranium for medical uses, as other nations in
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: the world have. There's no reason for them to have
• 14:51
  Speaker 6: a weapons grade program, and we should not allow them
• 14:53
  Speaker 6: to have that.
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: Not countenance is its existence.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: So that's not part of a complete when where turn
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: when the deal details actually come out. How about their
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: rocket program. I don't want them to have any rockets.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: No one needs rockets. You can have a conventional arteche,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: you can defend yourself against you have tank chin, air
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: planes and things, but you don't need intercontinental ballistic missiles. Agreed.
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: No, agreed, And they've proven that they cannot have that
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: because they fired a two stage rocket at Diego Garcia.
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: There's no nation on Earth that needs a conventional multi
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: stage ballistic missile program unless you're a space faring nation,
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: and yeah, you want to put satellites into space shoreshore,
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: you can have access to all the communications and navigation
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: technology you want Iran, but you can't have a multi
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: stage ballistic missile program. The only reason why a country
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: would have a multi stage ballistic missile program is if
• 15:49
  Speaker 6: they wanted to deliver a nuclear weapon in a long
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: range distance. There's no other reason to have a conventional
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: two stage ballistic missile program. Again, unless you're a space
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: faring nation, and Iran has forfeited its capacity to have.
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: So now no longer be ballistically.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: You were agreed. Last thing is and I don't know
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: enough about sanctions relief to say when and what ought
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: to be eased on whom. However, they're going to need
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: some money soon because they're bankrupt. I saw the report
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: from Iran International yesterday with the Iranian Central Bank predicting
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: it will take twelve years to rebuild them. We're going
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: to have one hundred and eighty percent inflation next year,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: so they're screwed. At one point do we begin to
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: throttle back the sanctions.
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: I hope not soon.
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: And I'm actually a little nervous about this, all this
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: talk about returning to Islamabad.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: As quickly as we are. We need this.
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: Blockade strategy to bite a little bit more. They have
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: to be deprived of revenue. The IRGC has to be starved,
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: the proxies have to be starved, the propaganda has to
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: shut down, and the oil revenues have to dry up,
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: and royal production has to dry up. I've seen estimates
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: thirteen days sixteen days, at which point storage inside Iran
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: is maxed out and they have to start shutting down
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: these fields, which, as we've learned over the course of
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: this conflict, not so easy to start them back up,
• 17:04
  Speaker 6: and a lot of damage can be done to them
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: in the interim. So what we want is Iranian regimes,
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: pillars of stability inside this regime, and the RGC in particular,
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: which uses this revenue to fund its operations, to dry
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: up in certain sectors when Israel and the United States hit,
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: for example, steel, big industry inside Iran, and certain elements
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: inside the IRGC derive their profits from it. They all
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: have little fiftoms. So we want some five ittoms to
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: be okay and other five items to not be so okay,
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: so that we have existential conflict within the regime and
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: we begin to see fractures within it while these two
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: forces jockey for a power, and then once you have
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: internal elite disagreement, you can start to see those fractures
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: emerge and form into something much more durable that we
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: can exploit. So we want time, We want this to work.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: A little bit more so, last question, Noah, is anyone
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: who isn't blinded or impacted I TDS going to be
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: able to claim that this isn't a giant win for
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump? Yeah?
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: They will.
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: I mean, listen, a lot of my colleagues, none of
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: whom are suffering from classic late stage Trump derangements SYS syndrome,
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: are very skeptical of this war and very skeptical of
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: the prospects for success. And I take all of their
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: criticisms and apprehensions I face value. I don't think they're
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: coming from some surreptitious place where they're advancing another narrative
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: on the back of their anxiety over this war. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: think a lot of people are I think a lot
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: of people are retailing Trump. If not d TTS, then
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: Trump frustration's hostility, hatred through their criticisms of this war.
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: But they're not a.
• 18:45
  Speaker 6: Lot of people are very concerned about the economic trajectory
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: of this war, and they don't think the president has
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: been clear about his objectives and the means to get there.
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: I think those criticism are perfectly valid. I don't necessarily
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: share them, but they're.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Valid, Okay, valid. It's different from being crazy, and I'm
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: more concerned with the crazy people. They're no crazy people
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: on the editors, they're just wrong. Noah, you are right,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: hang in there, go the distance, demand equal time. Thank
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: and nosc Rothman. Don't go anywhere America. I'll be right
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: back on the Quehwage. Welcome back to America. I'm he
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Hewett in the Relief Factors studio. I hope you're watching
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: on the Sale New Channel. Sarah C. Bedford of The
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Washington Examiner joins me. Sarah is their chief political investigations reporter,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: st as they are like very few people do. Sarah,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: what is the prospect for reconciliation and what is going
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to be in it? That is the process by which
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: simple majority is in the House and the Senate can
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: pass a bill.
• 19:40
  Speaker 7: That's right, You know, I think the prospects of something
• 19:43
  Speaker 7: getting done this year are good, but beyond that, there's
• 19:46
  Speaker 7: not a lot of clarity, And even one reconciliation bill
• 19:50
  Speaker 7: is going to be a challenge for Republicans. So when
• 19:52
  Speaker 7: you hear optimistic talk from some Republicans about doing maybe
• 19:57
  Speaker 7: two reconciliation bills, or possibly even three re reconciliation bills,
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: that is going to be such an uphill battle because
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: with the margins so small, especially in the House but
• 20:07
  Speaker 7: also in the Senate, but particularly in the House, pretty
• 20:10
  Speaker 7: much every Republican member gets to hold an enormous amount
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: of sway over what goes in the reconciliation bill. It's
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: kind of ironic, but like Speaker Mike Johnson would have
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: a much easier time getting this through if he had
• 20:23
  Speaker 7: bigger margins.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: But everybody gets to.
• 20:25
  Speaker 7: Be sort of a king maker, and so Mike Johnson's
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: going to have a really hard time if some of
• 20:30
  Speaker 7: those hardline Republicans in the House start making demands like
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: put parts of the Save Act, for example, in a
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: reconciliation bill, put a guess tax holiday in the reconciliation bill,
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: all of these other ideas.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a real challenge.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Sarah, I am most interested, and this is my Hewett view.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I'd like to get the HS open and funded. I
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: would like the entire government funded through the end of
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: the Trump presidency so we don't have any of this absurdity.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: And I would like to get the Defense supplemental done
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and the shipbuilding budget passed. That's simple. Everybody wins because
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: the defense industrial basis spread across the United States. Is
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: it really that hard to put that together and move
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: it through.
• 21:12
  Speaker 7: Yes, it's sort of simple in theory, right, But because
• 21:16
  Speaker 7: there's a sense as we get closer and closer to
• 21:19
  Speaker 7: the midterms Republican primaries or even closer than that, members
• 21:23
  Speaker 7: recognize that this one reconciliation bill that has the DHS
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: funding in it might be the only train leaving the station,
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: and so there are not a lot of Republicans who
• 21:33
  Speaker 7: have specific asks that are going to be willing to
• 21:36
  Speaker 7: let that train leave the station without at least trying
• 21:39
  Speaker 7: to get their goods on board, recognizing that a second
• 21:43
  Speaker 7: or third reconciliation bill is not guaranteed. So you're going
• 21:46
  Speaker 7: to have Republicans probably object to the idea of just
• 21:50
  Speaker 7: doing DJs funding if they see a chance to try
• 21:52
  Speaker 7: to get their only chance potentially to try to get
• 21:55
  Speaker 7: their wish list funded.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: DHS and DoD That's what I'm saying, DH and whatever else.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: They think that Democrats might screw with it because impeachment's coming,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and that's going to if the House is flipped, and
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: it's likely to flip and the Senate's in danger. They
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: got to get done with. They got to get done
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and the most important thing is the nation's defense. Tell me,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: among Republicans you talk to, I think the war has
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: been won, and I think Donald Trump's not making it up.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, we got to tie the bow and agree
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: on terms, but they've smashed the Iranian military. Do the
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Republicans act like winners?
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: There's Kasha's optimism.
• 22:32
  Speaker 8: I think, like you mentioned that BO hasn't quite been
• 22:35
  Speaker 8: tied yet, and until that happens, Republicans are really reluctant
• 22:40
  Speaker 8: to be seen as taking a victory lap or have
• 22:42
  Speaker 8: some sort.
• 22:42
  Speaker 7: Of mission accomplished moment when that's not technically the case yet.
• 22:47
  Speaker 7: But there's definitely Kausha's optimism that this could be the end.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: The markets are certainly reacting that way.
• 22:53
  Speaker 7: Trump, you know, seems to potentially have some cooperation from
• 22:57
  Speaker 7: Gulf state nations to put the financial screw to a run.
• 23:00
  Speaker 7: So things seem to be lining up for Donald Trump's
• 23:02
  Speaker 7: strategy here. But again, until the teaser cross the eyes
• 23:07
  Speaker 7: are dotted, you're not going to see Republicans out there
• 23:10
  Speaker 7: cheering just quite yet.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Now, the next thing that comes up will be how
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: quickly gas prices decline, and that could take three or
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: four months wearing the summer driving season, So that's a
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: demand push. But Cuba comes up, and I read stories
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: yesterday about how Diaz Carnell is out and someone named
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Castrup's coming in. There are three or four pretenders to
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: the throne. What's your buzz on Cuba?
• 23:37
  Speaker 7: Well, I know more Republicans on Capitol Hill would say
• 23:39
  Speaker 7: about this is please just cool it. On the foreign
• 23:42
  Speaker 7: policy front, right, they want Donald Trump and the Trump
• 23:45
  Speaker 7: administration to pivot to an affordability message.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: They want him to sort of put.
• 23:49
  Speaker 7: Some muscle behind their last chance to get a legislative
• 23:53
  Speaker 7: accomplishment that they can run on. They want him to
• 23:56
  Speaker 7: be talking about, look, I feel your pain at the pump.
• 23:58
  Speaker 7: I know you can't buy a house, your first home
• 24:00
  Speaker 7: of your young person. All these things that he ran on.
• 24:03
  Speaker 7: So I do think that there would be some heartburn
• 24:06
  Speaker 7: in the GOP if Donald Trump pivoted from even a
• 24:10
  Speaker 7: clean victory in Iran to another foreign policy adventure. That's
• 24:14
  Speaker 7: just not what Republicans in Washington want to see from
• 24:16
  Speaker 7: the president right now.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: All right, So last question. Scott Bessen today said one
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: out of three taxpayers or one out of two taxpayers
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: are claiming one of the working class tax credit provisions
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: to their advantage. Is that message getting out?
• 24:35
  Speaker 7: Well, certainly some Americans are going to see that when
• 24:38
  Speaker 7: they get their refunds.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's always a risk that the.
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: Trump administration inflates expectations about refunds and if they don't
• 24:46
  Speaker 7: come in quite as high as Americans are hoping because
• 24:48
  Speaker 7: of that messaging, it could backfire. But it is just
• 24:51
  Speaker 7: objective fact that the Trump administration's policies, either from the
• 24:55
  Speaker 7: One Big Beautiful Bill or from earlier legislation from even
• 24:58
  Speaker 7: the first Trump administration, those policies are putting more money
• 25:02
  Speaker 7: back in American's pockets. But the question is, you know,
• 25:04
  Speaker 7: can Trump pulled the focus away from things like the
• 25:07
  Speaker 7: Iran war.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: And spend time driving that message home?
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: All right? So I've got Sarah Askar coming up being
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: an hour number three to talk about our book Last
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Branch Standing. What is the buzz on Supreme Court retirements
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: if any that you've heard.
• 25:22
  Speaker 9: There are certainly some buzz about Justice Alito that he
• 25:25
  Speaker 9: could retire at the end of this term, which is
• 25:28
  Speaker 9: in June, because of that risk that you mentioned, the
• 25:30
  Speaker 9: very real risk that Republicans could lose control of the
• 25:34
  Speaker 9: Senate or their margins could be trimmed significantly in the midterms.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: If Alito were.
• 25:39
  Speaker 7: To retire at the end of the term, there's precedent
• 25:42
  Speaker 7: for being able to turn around a new confirmation in
• 25:45
  Speaker 7: that amount of time.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Kennedy.
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: Justice Kennedy retired, and I believe June twenty eighteen. Kavanaugh
• 25:50
  Speaker 7: was on the Supreme Court by October of that year,
• 25:52
  Speaker 7: So there's president for that happening. But he would have
• 25:55
  Speaker 7: to make a move soon if that was going to
• 25:58
  Speaker 7: be a reality, And it's certainly a realistic possibility, leader
• 26:01
  Speaker 7: thoughness that he's preparing for.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: But Justice could have already alerted this White House and
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: they just might be holding it down and it could
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: be too Any buzz at all about Clarence Thomas, so
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I considered to be one of the great Americans of
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: my time and also selfless. And I think he might
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: see the Senate risk too. What do you think, Well,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I think you.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Know Claience Thomas.
• 26:23
  Speaker 7: He's been on the court for a very long time,
• 26:25
  Speaker 7: so long in fact, that he's coming within a couple
• 26:28
  Speaker 7: of years of breaking the record for the longest serving justice.
• 26:30
  Speaker 7: So the little buzz that I've heard on that is
• 26:32
  Speaker 7: potentially he wants to say. I believe it's May twenty
• 26:35
  Speaker 7: twenty eight when you hit that milestone, so he might
• 26:38
  Speaker 7: hang on a bit longer.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: The retirement buzz is more about a lego.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: All right. Sarah Bedford always good to talk to you.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Follow her on x at Sarah C. Bedford Follow me
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: the next segment of today Hugh Hewitt Show. I'm joined
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: by an old friend, Jonathan Williams. He is President and
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Chief Economist of the American Legislative Exchange Council. That would
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: be ALEC to you, al E. Dot Org And Jonathan
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: is my dear friend in Nemesis because he's from that
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: state up north. And every April fifteen, Alec puts out
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Rich states Port States, which you can get a copy
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: of for free at Rich Statesporstates dot org and for
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: years and year Jonathan and I have been doing this
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: for years and years. He put the thumb on the
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: scale for Michigan. So Jonathan, let's just start there. Shall
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: we compare Michigan in Ohio. I've got my little rich
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: states portstates dot org map up and I look over
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: here at Ohio b anyway. It's good to see you.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 27:35
  Speaker 10: Great to see you friend doing well?
• 27:37
  Speaker 11: And I was actually just talking about you at the
• 27:39
  Speaker 11: US Capital today. We had the launch event with our
• 27:42
  Speaker 11: Utah delegation in town, and I knew that we're going
• 27:45
  Speaker 11: to have some fun with some good big ten sports
• 27:48
  Speaker 11: up banter here with Michigan and Ohio state.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Did Utah win again? Are they the rich state number
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: one again?
• 27:54
  Speaker 10: Yeah?
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: It?
• 27:55
  Speaker 10: They sure are? Nineteen years running.
• 27:57
  Speaker 11: And we had the Speaker of the House like Oltz,
• 28:00
  Speaker 11: and the Senate President Stuart Adams and all the members
• 28:03
  Speaker 11: of the Utah House Congressional delegation with us. They're at
• 28:06
  Speaker 11: the Capitol and about forty five Utah legislators celebrating this
• 28:10
  Speaker 11: really monumental streak that they've had and they're going.
• 28:14
  Speaker 10: Full board towards twenty years at number one.
• 28:17
  Speaker 11: And we're going to be hosting the ALLEC annual meeting
• 28:19
  Speaker 11: out there in Salt Lake, So we're going to have
• 28:20
  Speaker 11: a big party for Utah that actually happens here.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Now, you gotta be careful. The Florida delegation is just
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: going to en Moss come and mug you someday because
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: they're always number two, and they're like Avis, They're going
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: to come get Johnathan. Economists, you're a serious student of
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: the economies of these fifty states. But let's check out
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: wonderful Ohio. What's its ranking this year? Economic Outlook rank fifteen,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Economic Performance rank thirty four, not very good. But let's
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: go look at Michigan, shall we Michigan Economic Outlook rank
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: thirty second, Economic Performance rate thirty five. For the first
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: time in the years we've been doing this, the Buckeys
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: have beaten the Wolverines. Jonathan, I'm honest, man, thank you.
• 29:10
  Speaker 11: I knew this is that you're going to be on
• 29:12
  Speaker 11: cloud nine today, Hugh as we talked about this, But
• 29:15
  Speaker 11: it is really a tale of two states. This year
• 29:17
  Speaker 11: is one of our key storylines, which is the biggest
• 29:20
  Speaker 11: improvement of any state came in Ohio and going from
• 29:24
  Speaker 11: twenty fifth to fifteenth and a jump of ten spots,
• 29:28
  Speaker 11: where Michigan was actually the state that lost the most
• 29:30
  Speaker 11: ground this year, losing thirteen spots and going down there
• 29:33
  Speaker 11: below average. And so just a massive difference in the
• 29:37
  Speaker 11: way that those two states have been governed in recent years.
• 29:40
  Speaker 11: And you had juxtaposed the great flat tax that we've
• 29:43
  Speaker 11: talked about two point seventy five percent on personal income
• 29:46
  Speaker 11: there in Ohio now led by President mcaulay and so
• 29:50
  Speaker 11: many of his great colleagues in the Ohio General Assembly,
• 29:53
  Speaker 11: and what Michigan has done.
• 29:55
  Speaker 10: And you know, thank God, by the way.
• 29:56
  Speaker 11: For Michigan in Matt pall a Speaker of the House
• 29:59
  Speaker 11: who you know has been.
• 29:59
  Speaker 10: On the show many times.
• 30:01
  Speaker 11: If it wasn't he and his House members, Michigan would
• 30:04
  Speaker 11: be in the bottom ten right now. I guarantee it
• 30:06
  Speaker 11: because of the Whitmer administration and the progressives of the
• 30:09
  Speaker 11: Michigan Senate.
• 30:10
  Speaker 10: But it is a really telling day now that Ohio
• 30:13
  Speaker 10: has taken this place.
• 30:15
  Speaker 11: The other thing you that's so important to note is
• 30:17
  Speaker 11: the historical piece of rich states Poor states. As you know, well,
• 30:20
  Speaker 11: when you go to Rich statespor States dot Org, you don't.
• 30:23
  Speaker 10: Only see where you rank in your current edition. You
• 30:26
  Speaker 10: see all nineteen editions.
• 30:27
  Speaker 11: In Ohio started and you probably remember this, Hugh Ohio
• 30:31
  Speaker 11: started at forty seven per Economic Outlook the first edition,
• 30:35
  Speaker 11: and here you are all time best record of fifteenth
• 30:38
  Speaker 11: and I've convinced you're on your way to the top ten.
• 30:40
  Speaker 11: But here's the thing, you we all got to worry
• 30:43
  Speaker 11: wolf Rains and Buckeyes together.
• 30:45
  Speaker 10: We got to worry about the Hoosiers because once again
• 30:47
  Speaker 10: they are the top ten.
• 30:48
  Speaker 11: And Indiana is really beginning to turn a corner when
• 30:51
  Speaker 11: it comes to this net in migration and some of
• 30:53
  Speaker 11: the great things that they're seeing.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: People still have to live there. I'm joking, I'm John.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Let's look at my two other states of concern. We
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: are Virginians. Virginia is ranked in its Economic Outlook only
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: thirty one, and its performance is twenty one, which suggests
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: that the change in Richmond from Glenn Youngkin to Abigail
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Spanberger is very bad. Indeed, it could even be worse
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: than that next year.
• 31:20
  Speaker 10: Yeah, I think it will.
• 31:21
  Speaker 11: And one thing to just note, as you remember but
• 31:24
  Speaker 11: listeners and viewers may not, is this cuts off as
• 31:27
  Speaker 11: of January first, So any of the damage that was
• 31:29
  Speaker 11: done in Virginia this session or in States the session
• 31:33
  Speaker 11: better or for worse. The changes are not captured yet
• 31:35
  Speaker 11: in this Bridge State's Poor States ranking, and so all
• 31:39
  Speaker 11: the big government things that we saw that I know,
• 31:41
  Speaker 11: it's still in deliberation in Richmond right now. What Governor
• 31:44
  Speaker 11: Spamberg will sign and what she will veto that all
• 31:47
  Speaker 11: will be out added up to the tally when we
• 31:50
  Speaker 11: see the next edition of rich States Poor States in
• 31:53
  Speaker 11: twenty twenty seven. So TBD a little bit when it
• 31:56
  Speaker 11: comes to Virginia, but obviously very big bad ideas being
• 31:59
  Speaker 11: talked about in Richmond this year.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Two more states I want to cover. One is main
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: because I have family up there and I spend so
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: much time. Sadly, its economic outlook is forty fourth among
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: fifty states, and its economic performance is seventeen because it's
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: only at one point one million people, but they're not
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: doing what they need to do to keep up. Then
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I want to go over to you know, I always
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: get new affiliates. John Hickory, North Carolina joined last week
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: WHKY Talk Radio twelve ninety AM one or two point
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: three FM. I've never looked at North Carolina before, so
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I pull it up and I'm astonished it is fourth
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: in the economic rank and it's ninth in the outlook.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: They've snuck up on everybody.
• 32:45
  Speaker 10: Yeah, they really did. It's a great turnaround story.
• 32:48
  Speaker 11: It's one that I think needs to be told and
• 32:50
  Speaker 11: retold in that ten to fifteen years ago before Conservatives
• 32:53
  Speaker 11: took over the legislature after one hundred and fifty years
• 32:57
  Speaker 11: of liberal control. You add North Carolina in the middle
• 33:00
  Speaker 11: of the pack, and here you are today with North
• 33:02
  Speaker 11: Carolina the fourth best economic outlook in America. Huge in migration,
• 33:07
  Speaker 11: huge job creation, and they're just getting started. I mean,
• 33:10
  Speaker 11: you continue to see the progress that they've made, whether
• 33:12
  Speaker 11: it's school choice and economic freedom, kind of that magic
• 33:15
  Speaker 11: cowbo that we talk about a lot on the show, Hugh.
• 33:18
  Speaker 11: But you know, you look at the business taxes and
• 33:21
  Speaker 11: just some of the big investments that they've been getting
• 33:23
  Speaker 11: from job creators coming in the business tax rate. At
• 33:26
  Speaker 11: the end of this decade in North Carolina, Hue zero,
• 33:29
  Speaker 11: they're going to have zero corporate income taxes in the decade.
• 33:33
  Speaker 11: Talk about an economic development strategy. You don't have to
• 33:35
  Speaker 11: have these handouts and giveaways like a lot of states do.
• 33:38
  Speaker 11: You can just say, come on, into North Carolina for
• 33:40
  Speaker 11: no business taxes, that's a pretty good Timeren.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Did you in fact add in school choice to share?
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Were you able to put that in as a metric
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: of your measurement?
• 33:50
  Speaker 10: Not yet.
• 33:51
  Speaker 11: We're still absolutely going to consider that for when we
• 33:55
  Speaker 11: hit twenty and we can.
• 33:56
  Speaker 10: Kind of rethink the rankings going forward.
• 33:58
  Speaker 11: But whether we measure directly or not, we know that
• 34:01
  Speaker 11: it's a huge factor for families. And when you combine
• 34:04
  Speaker 11: the good tax policies and common sense regulatory policies that
• 34:08
  Speaker 11: we're seeing in some of these states with the education
• 34:11
  Speaker 11: freedom side, which is definitely what Utah does, and that's
• 34:13
  Speaker 11: one of the secrets to their success today. One of
• 34:16
  Speaker 11: the most pro family states in America and the most
• 34:19
  Speaker 11: economically free.
• 34:20
  Speaker 10: That's a combo that's really difficult to.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Be So, Johnathan, I want to wrap up by telling
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: our new listeners, our new affiliates, ALEC, if you're a
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: state legislator, are on their staff, you really want to
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: belong to the American Legislative Exchange Council. It's nonpartisan, it's wonky,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: it's fun. Is it growing, Jonathan? Are you getting new
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: people from North Carolina? For example? Figuring out this is
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: where you get your model policies.
• 34:47
  Speaker 10: You better believe it.
• 34:48
  Speaker 11: North Carolina's the powerhouse state and continues to grow. In fact,
• 34:51
  Speaker 11: we'll be in Raleigh here in a couple of weeks
• 34:52
  Speaker 11: to put together a policy boot camp for the legislators
• 34:56
  Speaker 11: that continue to bring in new members as we are
• 34:58
  Speaker 11: all across the country and.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Finally, Rich Statespoorstates dot Org. You'll send them a free copy,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: won't you.
• 35:07
  Speaker 10: We will do that. Encourage everybody to check it out
• 35:09
  Speaker 10: here for tax week.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: And the reason I bring that up every time you
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: put that in a guest bedroom, everybody who comes from
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: out of state, they all go and look at it.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: It's like flies to the light, moths to the screen.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: If you put Rich States, Poor States out there. It's
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: a fun book. It's always well produced, and it always
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: comes out on April fifteen, Jonathan, good to see you
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: again for the next year when we increase our lead
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: over Michigan. That's all I care about, really, is that, Ohio.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: And you know you've got a governor's rate. It could
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: turn around, right, it could turn around.
• 35:46
  Speaker 11: It'd be John James and we're talking about really competing again.
• 35:49
  Speaker 11: But once again, we got to watch those Hoosiers, not
• 35:51
  Speaker 11: just football.
• 35:51
  Speaker 10: They're out there to beat us.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I know Mike Brown is a serious business guy. Jonathan Williams,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: President cy and Chief Economists of ALEC, Thank you, my friend.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Go to ALEC rich or go to rich States Fourth
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: States dot org. That's the direct way. You can see
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: the interactive map. You can see where your state ranks.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: But get the book. Your guests will love it. And
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: come right back. From Mark Dubowitz from the Foundation for
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: the Defense of Democracy, Welcome back America. For the last
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: year and a half, the Iran Breakdown podcast has been
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: my go to source for serious, extended conversation on the
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Islamic Republican Iran and what a menace it is to
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: the world. It's always hosted by Mark Dubowitz, who is
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: the CEO over at FDD. Mark joins me today. Mark,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: when you began and ran Breakdown, I know eighteen months ago,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: did you have any idea we would be this close
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: to the collapse of that regime?
• 36:48
  Speaker 12: Thanks for having me on, Hugh, I did not. I
• 36:50
  Speaker 12: always hope for that.
• 36:51
  Speaker 13: I've been working out on for twenty three years and
• 36:53
  Speaker 13: here at FDD that's certainly been higher objective. But when
• 36:56
  Speaker 13: we started the podcast before it would have an interesting
• 36:58
  Speaker 13: kind of niche Podcastle are interested in Iran, but this
• 37:01
  Speaker 13: has certainly been the Iran year and the Iran moment
• 37:04
  Speaker 13: for which President Trump deserves incredible credit, not only from
• 37:08
  Speaker 13: the American people, but from the Iranian people for all
• 37:10
  Speaker 13: these done.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, the last mile is always the hardest. They're on
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: their back. The release of the report from the Iranian
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Central Bank yesterday one hundred and eighty percent inflation twelve
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: years to recover. The blockade is in effect. Their military
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: is smashed. What do you want to see to come
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: out of any agreement to end hostilities?
• 37:34
  Speaker 13: So, Hugh, we need to strip Aron of its nuclear
• 37:38
  Speaker 13: weapons capability. We must never give this regime the ability
• 37:41
  Speaker 13: to do enrich uranium because the only thing they want
• 37:44
  Speaker 13: to do with that enrich uranium is turned into a bomb.
• 37:47
  Speaker 13: We must get the eleven bombs worth of highly enriched
• 37:51
  Speaker 13: uranium out of the country. We must get the thousands
• 37:54
  Speaker 13: of pounds of low enrich uranium out of the country
• 37:57
  Speaker 13: because that can be turned into weapons grade. We have
• 37:59
  Speaker 13: to put severe restrictions and their ability to rebuild their
• 38:02
  Speaker 13: missile program. Those missiles are deadly and dangerous to our allies,
• 38:06
  Speaker 13: to American bases, to American troops. And by the way,
• 38:10
  Speaker 13: they have a program to build an intercontinental ballistic missile
• 38:12
  Speaker 13: program to threaten the American homeland. They cannot be allowed
• 38:15
  Speaker 13: to reconstitute that missile program. And they got to stop
• 38:18
  Speaker 13: support for terrorism. They've been funding terrorists around the world
• 38:21
  Speaker 13: who've been killing and maiming thousands of Americans for forty
• 38:25
  Speaker 13: seven years, as well as literally hundreds of thousands of
• 38:29
  Speaker 13: people from the Middle East and around the world. So
• 38:31
  Speaker 13: we have got to stop this regime from moving forward
• 38:35
  Speaker 13: with its deadly capabilities. If we can do that diplomatically,
• 38:38
  Speaker 13: that's a preferred option. If not, then we're going to
• 38:40
  Speaker 13: have to resort to both military operations and to supporting
• 38:44
  Speaker 13: the Iranian people to take back this country.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Well Mark, one of the things that has come up
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: is the suggestion that we would settle, the United States
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: would settle for a twenty year ban on enrichment. That
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: strikes some people as like my saying, I refuse to
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: be ineligible for the NFL draft. Do you mind something
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: that is that far out? Given the trajectories of Israel,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: the United States, and the civilized world, and the crush
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: shattered remnants of Iran. I do you.
• 39:13
  Speaker 13: I mean twenty years is like a blip in time.
• 39:16
  Speaker 13: I mean, anybody who's a parent knows how quickly your
• 39:18
  Speaker 13: kids grow up. Twenty years goes by in a flash,
• 39:21
  Speaker 13: and so in twenty years time, this regime is still
• 39:24
  Speaker 13: in power. This regime, with all its deadly capabilities, now
• 39:28
  Speaker 13: has enrichment. Now this regime can build nuclear weapons. I
• 39:31
  Speaker 13: think this is not something President Trump wants to kick
• 39:34
  Speaker 13: the can down the road to some future president, because
• 39:36
  Speaker 13: he knows there's no future president who is going to
• 39:40
  Speaker 13: have the resolve and the commitment to stop this regime
• 39:44
  Speaker 13: after him. He needs this is his legacy, and he
• 39:47
  Speaker 13: is two and a half years to ensure that this
• 39:50
  Speaker 13: regime no longer has these deadly capabilities. If we give
• 39:53
  Speaker 13: on enrichment, I don't care if it's five years, ten years,
• 39:56
  Speaker 13: twenty or fifty. The fact of the matter is this
• 39:58
  Speaker 13: regime has no reason to have Richmond capability except to
• 40:01
  Speaker 13: build a nuclear weapon. It is sustained a million and
• 40:04
  Speaker 13: a half a trillion and a half dollars in damage.
• 40:07
  Speaker 13: It has been battered in two wars, it has had
• 40:09
  Speaker 13: countless protests that has slotted its way through. It is
• 40:13
  Speaker 13: a regime that is dedicated to enrichment capability. Because it's
• 40:17
  Speaker 13: dedicated to having a nuclear weapon, it can have civilian
• 40:20
  Speaker 13: nuclear energy like twenty two other countries and by its
• 40:22
  Speaker 13: fuel rods from abroad. It's not interested in that offer.
• 40:25
  Speaker 13: The Americans gave that offer to the Iranians a couple
• 40:28
  Speaker 13: of months ago. We said free civilian energy and they
• 40:30
  Speaker 13: said no. And the reason they say no is they
• 40:33
  Speaker 13: need Enrichmond capability to build a weapon.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: So you will be criticizing any deal that says twenty years,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: fifteen years, twenty five years. I wanted to get that
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: on the record. I myself want anytime anywhere inspections, and
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: not just by the IAEA. The JCPOA carved out entire
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: army bases that they weren't allowed to go on. What
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: kind of inspection regimes do you expect out of this, Mark.
• 40:59
  Speaker 12: Duboitz, You're exactly right.
• 41:02
  Speaker 13: I mean the notion that somehow you know, we're only
• 41:04
  Speaker 13: going to inspect their declared facilities, but if we discover
• 41:07
  Speaker 13: some covert facility and an IRGC army base, well that
• 41:10
  Speaker 13: time always off limits is ridiculous. I mean, that's exactly
• 41:14
  Speaker 13: what they'll do is build covert nuclear facilities on iro
• 41:17
  Speaker 13: GC bases and then they will prevent the IAEA from
• 41:20
  Speaker 13: going in. So we need anywhere, anytime, inspections and with
• 41:26
  Speaker 13: no excuses. And the most important thing is it's not
• 41:29
  Speaker 13: what you write on a piece of paper, it's what
• 41:31
  Speaker 13: you're willing to enforce.
• 41:32
  Speaker 12: And I think the Iranians.
• 41:34
  Speaker 13: Must now know that we are willing to enforce any agreement,
• 41:38
  Speaker 13: not just by taking them to court or taking them
• 41:40
  Speaker 13: to the United Nations, which will be feckless and do nothing,
• 41:43
  Speaker 13: but then we're willing to use all instruments of American
• 41:45
  Speaker 13: and is really power to enforce any agreement that we
• 41:48
  Speaker 13: reach with them.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Two more questions, Do we need access to pick Axe
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Mountain before we sign any deal with them?
• 41:57
  Speaker 12: Yeah?
• 41:57
  Speaker 13: I think, as your listeners know, a Pickock Mountain is
• 41:59
  Speaker 13: this site buried deeply underground, even deeper than the four
• 42:02
  Speaker 13: Doeaux facility the President Trump bombed back in the Twelve
• 42:05
  Speaker 13: Day War, and we need to dismantle it fully.
• 42:09
  Speaker 12: Otherwise what the Iranians.
• 42:10
  Speaker 13: Will do is build a full nuclear weapons program deeply underground,
• 42:15
  Speaker 13: buried under a mountain, and our bombers won't even be
• 42:18
  Speaker 13: able to take it out, So we need it fully dismantled,
• 42:21
  Speaker 13: shot down so that it cannot be reopened. And we also
• 42:24
  Speaker 13: need to make it clear to the Iranians like you
• 42:26
  Speaker 13: don't build things below ground. If you build miss L's
• 42:29
  Speaker 13: below ground or nuclear facilities by below ground, our assumption
• 42:33
  Speaker 13: will be that you are using those and storing those
• 42:36
  Speaker 13: and hiding those for deadly purposes. So nothing below ground,
• 42:39
  Speaker 13: and that has to be a key element of any deal.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: So Mark, when do you see us easing back on sanction?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Let's say they agreed to everything, Mark doing it at
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the table and you're happy with the deal, and then
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: the subject comes up about easing sanctions. When do we
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: begin to ease sanctions in your view.
• 43:00
  Speaker 13: Well, we can only easing sanctions once we are certain
• 43:04
  Speaker 13: of their adherence to the agreement and their implementation of
• 43:07
  Speaker 13: the requirements under the agreement. The worst thing we can
• 43:10
  Speaker 13: do is premature sanctions relief provide this regime with a
• 43:14
  Speaker 13: financial lifeline. Right now, they're economically on their back. We
• 43:18
  Speaker 13: do not want to help them up to their knees
• 43:21
  Speaker 13: and then up to their feet until they have fully
• 43:23
  Speaker 13: implemented all of the conditions of the steel full dismantlement
• 43:26
  Speaker 13: the nuclear program, zero enrichment, zero processing, in ability to
• 43:30
  Speaker 13: reconstitute their blistic missile program, and the end of financing terrorism.
• 43:34
  Speaker 12: Those hues should not be difficult.
• 43:36
  Speaker 13: Conditions for the regime to meet. I mean that is
• 43:39
  Speaker 13: what a normal country. A normal country doesn't build nuclear
• 43:42
  Speaker 13: weapons to threaten its neighbors. A normal country doesn't fire
• 43:46
  Speaker 13: thousands of ballistic missiles at its neighbors. A normal country
• 43:49
  Speaker 13: doesn't build ICBMs in order to hold its neighbors hostage.
• 43:53
  Speaker 13: And a normal country does not send billions of dollars
• 43:56
  Speaker 13: of money they don't have to fund terrorism. These are
• 43:58
  Speaker 13: reasonable demands like a normal nation, and will treat you
• 44:01
  Speaker 13: like a normal nation and provide you the sanctions relief. Accordingly,
• 44:04
  Speaker 13: don't act like a normal nation, and we're going to
• 44:07
  Speaker 13: use all that elements of American power to stop you.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I want to close by just saying I appreciate
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: the work of the FDD. From top to bottom, you
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: folks turn out the best content on Iran, the most
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: level added, the most detailed, the most trustworthy information on
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: the Islamic Republic, and hopefully it's demises in the near future.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: And you folks from top to bottom for many, many years.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Will be largely responsible for Washington d C correcting the
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: terrible mistake of the JCPUA. Mark Dubowitz, thank you. Follow
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: him on exit m Dubowitz, Follow FDD at FDD Follow
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: me to the next segment. Alextra is next on the
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: U View its show Welcome Back in America. I'm Hugh HEWITTT.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Yesterday I was at the annual gathering of American Global
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Strategies conference of clients and heavyweights talking about international security.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I was honored to moderate a panel that was really
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: fun to talk to. Alex Gray is, the CEO of
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: AGS American Global Strategy. Alex, all of the things you
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: heard yesterday, what surprised you the most and the least.
• 45:17
  Speaker 14: Well, it's always fun to have you there, Hugh, and
• 45:20
  Speaker 14: it's always great to see some of my longtime friends
• 45:23
  Speaker 14: and colleagues have gone onto big jobs in government. And look,
• 45:27
  Speaker 14: I think the thing that's the least surprising is that
• 45:30
  Speaker 14: the focus now so much of every regional functional topic
• 45:35
  Speaker 14: is geoeconomic. Donald Trump has, in a way that probably
• 45:40
  Speaker 14: would have been unprecedented ten years ago, brought trade, economic security,
• 45:46
  Speaker 14: supply chains into the forefront of every conversation, whether it's wrong,
• 45:51
  Speaker 14: whether it's China, whether it's Russia, whether it's the Western hemisphere,
• 45:55
  Speaker 14: it's economic security, economic security, economic security. So that suffused
• 45:59
  Speaker 14: all of the panels on disparate topics, and I guess
• 46:03
  Speaker 14: that didn't really surprise me, at least in the recent years.
• 46:07
  Speaker 14: What did surprise me was in a world where we
• 46:10
  Speaker 14: are moving so quickly from crisis to crisis. When we
• 46:15
  Speaker 14: held this conference a year ago, Ukraine was the most
• 46:18
  Speaker 14: important topic. It was suffused every panel. Ukraine rarely came
• 46:23
  Speaker 14: up because it's been replaced in the immediate consciousness by Oran,
• 46:28
  Speaker 14: and so I think it just reminds us that even
• 46:31
  Speaker 14: though these are substantial events in their own right, there's
• 46:34
  Speaker 14: just a limited bandwidth. This applies to policymakers, analysts, industry.
• 46:39
  Speaker 14: There's a limited bandwidth to focus on a world in
• 46:41
  Speaker 14: some ways it's just on fire and keeping up with
• 46:44
  Speaker 14: the conflict a yours is a challenging thing to do.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: So, Alex, I was only there for one panel, and
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: the thing that surprised me about the panel is that
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: all three panels switch includes your colleague at AGS, Robert O'Brien.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: They have a longing for NATO not to go. I'm
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: kind of a realist. I love NATO for the last
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: fifty years of my adult life. I think it's crumbling
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: before our eyes. What was the tone of the rest
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: of the conference because I had to leave.
• 47:13
  Speaker 14: Well, look, you're right, Hugh, I think the NATO. I
• 47:18
  Speaker 14: think there's a mix here of people who are nostalgic
• 47:21
  Speaker 14: for a NATO that's not coming back, and folks who
• 47:25
  Speaker 14: are probably more like you and I, which is more
• 47:27
  Speaker 14: realistic that NATO has essentially committed suicide. Donald Trump spent
• 47:32
  Speaker 14: the first four years of his first presidency fighting to
• 47:36
  Speaker 14: save NATO. The Allies didn't feel that way, but that's
• 47:40
  Speaker 14: what he was doing. He used what we used to
• 47:42
  Speaker 14: call diplomacy tough love to force the Allies to finally
• 47:47
  Speaker 14: spend a proportionate amount of their own GDP on defense,
• 47:51
  Speaker 14: and he saved the alliance. It was headed to terminal decline.
• 47:54
  Speaker 14: And what the Allies have done by sabotaging and trying
• 47:59
  Speaker 14: to do everything can to undermine the President's efforts against
• 48:02
  Speaker 14: Iran using our own basis, our own assets that we
• 48:08
  Speaker 14: use frankly for their security more than ours in an
• 48:12
  Speaker 14: operation that benefits them. In a lot of ways more
• 48:15
  Speaker 14: than it benefits us in the immediate term. That has
• 48:18
  Speaker 14: undermined confidence in NATO in a way that just I'm
• 48:21
  Speaker 14: not sure is going to be recoverable, and so will.
• 48:24
  Speaker 10: I share a lot of the affection.
• 48:25
  Speaker 14: In the the some of the sense of nostalgia for
• 48:29
  Speaker 14: an alliance that at one point was the most effective
• 48:32
  Speaker 14: alliance in world history.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: I'm with you, Hugh.
• 48:35
  Speaker 14: I think it's on its way to potentially terminal decline
• 48:38
  Speaker 14: because of the choices that the leaders of the NATO
• 48:41
  Speaker 14: states have made themselves.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: And that's the bad news. The good news is the
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Quad and those who are Quad adjacent are stepping up
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: and jelling, and that for the benefit of the Steelers
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: fans that's in it straight to Australia, Japan, and India,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: and adjacent to it Philippin and Singapore, Taiwan, maybe Vietnam.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I thought pretty good after talking to the Palace yesterday
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, you should feel good about it, Hugh.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: I agree with you.
• 49:11
  Speaker 14: It's Quad plus it's India, Japan, Australia, the United States,
• 49:16
  Speaker 14: and then a rotating cast of regional characters based on
• 49:20
  Speaker 14: what's going on at any given time. And that was
• 49:22
  Speaker 14: a great legacy of the first Trump administration was Quad
• 49:25
  Speaker 14: plus the Biden administration, I actually continued it in a
• 49:29
  Speaker 14: positive way, and it's continuing even further in the second
• 49:32
  Speaker 14: Trump term. The reality is that as the president pivots
• 49:36
  Speaker 14: to Asia, and you and I have talked about this, Hugh,
• 49:39
  Speaker 14: one of the virtues of the Iran conflict is that
• 49:41
  Speaker 14: the President is actually addressing the thing that has been
• 49:45
  Speaker 14: keeping us from pivoting to Asia for sixteen years since
• 49:48
  Speaker 14: Hillary Clinton made that speech in twenty ten. By actually
• 49:52
  Speaker 14: ending the Iran threat, will be hopefully able to move
• 49:55
  Speaker 14: to that pivot that's been long delayed. And when we
• 49:58
  Speaker 14: do that, we're going to need a alliance structure, a
• 50:01
  Speaker 14: partnership structure in the Indo Pacific that'll facilitate us being
• 50:05
  Speaker 14: able to deter Chinese malign activity in Chinese aggression. The QUAD,
• 50:10
  Speaker 14: when you think about the combination of economic power and
• 50:12
  Speaker 14: military power, diplomatic cloud, the QUAD.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Is the vehicle to do that.
• 50:17
  Speaker 14: And so I think Times what you solved is well
• 50:19
  Speaker 14: placed optimism.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: The times are changing, but not necessarily for the worst.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Alex Gray, CEO of American Global Strategies, thank you for
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: joining me. Alex. I'll be right back in America to
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: day tune. Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Hewett Farmer.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: United States Senator Jim Tallon sits on the Reagan Board
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: of Peace through Strength, and he is my weekly guest
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: on matters national security. Jim, I think we've won this war,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: and the President keeps saying we have, and I think
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: we have. What do you think?
• 50:53
  Speaker 15: Yeah, Oh yeah, I think so. We've destroyed their inventories,
• 50:59
  Speaker 15: We've destroyed the industrial base that produced the inventories. We're
• 51:03
  Speaker 15: strangling the economy. Now. I think the next set of
• 51:07
  Speaker 15: negotiations we are essentially going to be dictating terms. And
• 51:10
  Speaker 15: keep in mind you that while we are not talking
• 51:13
  Speaker 15: about regime change, the Israelis are explicitly affirming that that's
• 51:17
  Speaker 15: what they want. And eventually those protesters are going to
• 51:20
  Speaker 15: hit the street. There's going to be some precipitating cause.
• 51:24
  Speaker 15: And there's only one person on the face of planet
• 51:26
  Speaker 15: Earth who can keep the Israelis from supporting them, and
• 51:30
  Speaker 15: that's Donald J.
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: Trump.
• 51:32
  Speaker 15: So, I mean, the Iranians had better be ready, I
• 51:37
  Speaker 15: think the next time just to agree to.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Term now, Jim, I read yesterday from Iran International, the
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Central Bank of Iran report that said one hundred and
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: eighty percent inflation is a given. It will take twelve
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: years to rebuild. And that's if they're moving the oil.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think they're moving the oil. I don't know
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: how they get out of this, cham do you, No,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 52:00
  Speaker 15: I mean, if you had a military strategist on there,
• 52:03
  Speaker 15: I think he would say we have effectively attacked their
• 52:06
  Speaker 15: center of gravity, their ability to generate and sustain coercive power,
• 52:11
  Speaker 15: much less to integrate the exercise of that power. I mean,
• 52:15
  Speaker 15: their top three or four leadership ranks are gone. They're
• 52:18
  Speaker 15: sown with dissension. You know, they're going to have to
• 52:21
  Speaker 15: do something that signals to us they're giving up. And
• 52:27
  Speaker 15: I think the most visible thing is other than opening
• 52:30
  Speaker 15: the strait, which is I think getting open anyway, is
• 52:34
  Speaker 15: to turn over that enriched uranium. They're going to have
• 52:36
  Speaker 15: to give us that picture of handing over to an
• 52:38
  Speaker 15: American delegation the uranium, and they're going to have to
• 52:42
  Speaker 15: let us go wherever we want to inspect what remains
• 52:46
  Speaker 15: of their nuclear program. I think that's what Trump's aiming for.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: That is a key thing to me anytime anywhere inspection
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: the JCPOA put off limit enormous military bases and we
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: had to give forty eight hours notice and sometimes they'd
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: say no, it was the worst deal ever.
• 53:06
  Speaker 15: Yeah, the next set of talks, which will happen, I
• 53:11
  Speaker 15: think are going to be the fourth set in the
• 53:14
  Speaker 15: last year. Well, I mean one Trump offered him negotiation
• 53:18
  Speaker 15: after Operation Midnight Hammer, then we negotiated before Operation Epic Fury.
• 53:24
  Speaker 15: Then we just had the negotiations in Islamabad. And each
• 53:28
  Speaker 15: time they have gotten demonstrably weaker and weaker. They hold
• 53:31
  Speaker 15: fewer and fewer cards. Now, I've said on the show before,
• 53:35
  Speaker 15: Donald Trump is not the kind of negotiator who's going
• 53:38
  Speaker 15: to be willing to give you more generous terms when
• 53:41
  Speaker 15: you're weaker and weaker and weaker, and he has more
• 53:43
  Speaker 15: and more leverage. So, as I said, I think it's
• 53:46
  Speaker 15: going to be whatever the President thinks amounts to effectively
• 53:49
  Speaker 15: surrender in this context.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Is there a good argument, Jim for no, we don't
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: want to meet with you now. We're just going to
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: keep the blockade here until fifteen. If you shoot at
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: us will crush you everything that moves. But we're not
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: going to let you have any money until May fifteen.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: What do you think of that argument?
• 54:10
  Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean, I said on the pod with Dwayne
• 54:13
  Speaker 15: the other day, the president's being more merciful than I
• 54:16
  Speaker 15: would be. But I'm glad he's running the He's running
• 54:19
  Speaker 15: this show and not me. I mean, because after what
• 54:21
  Speaker 15: they've done, I'd have gone after their utility and transportation infrastructure.
• 54:26
  Speaker 15: And you notice as far as their proxies are concerned,
• 54:28
  Speaker 15: which everybody mentions, and which is important to mention. You
• 54:31
  Speaker 15: notice that hes Belaw is now on their own. Ran
• 54:34
  Speaker 15: started a week ago saying, oh, the ceasefire has to
• 54:37
  Speaker 15: include hes Belah. Well, it doesn't include Hesbelah. And they're
• 54:41
  Speaker 15: still not shooting at us, are they.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: No. In fact, Israel is not in a hurry to
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: have a ceasefire with Lebanon. They're working with Lebanon. That's
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: the first time in decades. But it would be good
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: to take them out root and branch. I've never been
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: to Lebanon, Jim. There was a time when everybody went there.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Have you ever been there? No?
• 55:03
  Speaker 15: I have not, but you're right, I mean it was.
• 55:05
  Speaker 15: It was one of the most high end, well developed
• 55:09
  Speaker 15: and stable Middle Eastern countries until the Iranians subverted it
• 55:15
  Speaker 15: the way they subvert. They subverted Syria, Yemen, Gaza, and
• 55:21
  Speaker 15: have gone a long way towards subverting Iraq with these proxies.
• 55:26
  Speaker 15: But they don't have any more money to support the
• 55:28
  Speaker 15: proxies and they don't have any more means to do it.
• 55:31
  Speaker 15: So you know, you strike at the route and the
• 55:33
  Speaker 15: branches begin to wither.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: So we've got two MEWS Marine expeditionary units in the
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: area now and the one pop gun that hasn't gone
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: off are thosies. Do you think the MEWS are there
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: for them? I wouldn't say. I have not.
• 55:53
  Speaker 15: You know, when I listened to the strategists, I've not.
• 55:57
  Speaker 15: I've not heard of the MEWS mentioned in the context
• 56:00
  Speaker 15: of the who Thi's or the Red Sea. I think
• 56:03
  Speaker 15: they're there as an alternative, as an option in case
• 56:07
  Speaker 15: we need to do raids along the Iranian shore, in
• 56:11
  Speaker 15: case they start shooting, or if the president wanted to
• 56:14
  Speaker 15: occupy one of the islands. And I know that a
• 56:17
  Speaker 15: lot of the landforces guys will say, well, we shouldn't
• 56:20
  Speaker 15: do that because we have to sustain it. It'll be difficult.
• 56:23
  Speaker 15: But on the other hand, if you have total air
• 56:26
  Speaker 15: and naval superiority. How can they attack an island. It's
• 56:31
  Speaker 15: an island.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: An island, they got a how do you move? Last
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: question is legislative President needs a supplemental of two hundred
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: billion dollars for the Pentagon, and if we lose the House,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: we're not going to get anything we want for the
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: next two years. Why aren't we already moving on a
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: reconciliation to fund the government for the rest of the
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Trump presidency and the big shipbuilding push?
• 56:54
  Speaker 15: Why are we doing that exactly that that's a very
• 56:57
  Speaker 15: good question. I heard the leader say on your show.
• 57:01
  Speaker 15: What was it about a week ago, ten days ago
• 57:03
  Speaker 15: that they were going to move a reconciliation bill. I
• 57:06
  Speaker 15: think I heard him say that, and I think it's
• 57:08
  Speaker 15: important to do for exactly the reason that you mentioned.
• 57:10
  Speaker 15: I mean, in other words, that two hundred billions going
• 57:14
  Speaker 15: to cover the cost of the war, and it's also
• 57:16
  Speaker 15: going to enable the Department to carry out, for example,
• 57:20
  Speaker 15: its planned to rebuild the maritime industrial base. Now, you
• 57:23
  Speaker 15: I would not assume that if the Democrats get the
• 57:25
  Speaker 15: House that we're not going to be able to pass
• 57:28
  Speaker 15: defense appropriations bills with some reasonable numbers. I think we
• 57:31
  Speaker 15: probably will, but we still ought to pass the reconciliation bill.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: I agree. And our last question, do you think the war,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: if it's conclusively one, helps the Republicans In November, gas
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: prices won't be back to where they were supposed to be,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: but we will have won a war for the first
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: time I don't know since World War Two conclusively nineteen
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: ninety one. I get, so you think it helps.
• 57:57
  Speaker 15: I think Americans left a winner view, I think. And
• 58:01
  Speaker 15: I would like to get it over with because right
• 58:04
  Speaker 15: now we're using our bandwidths to talk about the war,
• 58:06
  Speaker 15: and I would like to talk about the good things
• 58:09
  Speaker 15: that we've done in the economic space. And there's a
• 58:12
  Speaker 15: whole list of achievements there. So yeah, Americans level winner.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I hope you're right. Jim Tallon on acts just follo
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: him at Jim Tallon follow me in the next segment
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: of the Hugulanship Morning Gloriating in grace America has promised
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: a special hour. As we enter into the end of
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: the court year, the Supreme Court year, lots of stuff
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: begins to speculate. You begin to hear about maybe one retirement,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: maybe two, about big decisions that have to come down,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: including birthright citizenship, you'll probably start listening to the Scotis
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: blog Wonderful Advisory Opinions podcast, and you should be reading
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: this book by Sarah Isker, Last Branch Standing, potentially surprising,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: occasionally winny journey inside Today's Supreme Court. Now, I have
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: a column about Sarah's book to Tomorrow in the Fox
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: News Opinion section. Says it not just occasionally funny, it's
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: very funny throughout. Sarah Asker, Welcome back to the uo
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: It Show. It's been a while.
• 59:10
  Speaker 16: My god, Hugh, you old so and so.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you. And if you have a fabulous new book out,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I want it to start, and I want you to
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: know the Frank Lunz rule that if you don't say
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: the title of the book seven times in every segment,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: the listeners won't remember Last Branch Standing? So are you
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: practicing Last Branch Standing? I listened to you and Mary
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Catherine yesterday for a nanosecond. Then I realized, oh my god,
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: it's an interview. I got to turn it off because
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: I don't like to I don't like to hear interviews
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: with authors before I do them myself. How to go
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: with Mary Catherine?
• 59:41
  Speaker 17: Well, I mean Mary Catherine and I we text a lot.
• 59:44
  Speaker 17: We hang out a lot. What we don't do is
• 59:46
  Speaker 17: actually record our conversations a lot. So we went off
• 59:49
  Speaker 17: on any number of tangents. We had a great time.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Did she get back to the meat of the book?
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: She said, she's like Dennis Prager. He doesn't read books
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: before he interviews the author. I read them, and so
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: let's get marching. There's a lot to cover, and I'm
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: going to start with the vegetables. Though there's lots of dessert.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I want to assure the ordinary reader out there lots
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: of dessert, but there are vegetables. The dessert is like
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: Mississcalia's meatballs and bong hits. For Jesus. We'll get to that,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: but let's start with the vegetable first. Donald Trump isn't
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: much of a fascist if he abides by the ruling
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: overturning the tariffs, is he?
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 16: That's right?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 17: I mean, we've had basically the Supreme Court has been
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 17: defined by presidents who have wanted to go up against it,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 17: thwart it, ignore it. The Supreme Court as we know
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 17: it exists because of Thomas Jefferson trying to impeach and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 17: remove Samuel Chase from the Supreme Court. In eighteen oh
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 17: five he wanted to remove Chief Justice John Marshall. Next,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 17: he wanted the Supreme Court to reflect his politics. The
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 17: fact that John Marshall was able to, you know, run
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 17: circles around him is really what creates the third branch
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 17: of government that we have.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: And you also quote Justice Jackson, my favorite, not Brown Jackson,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Justice Robert Jackson, my favorite justice in nineteen forty one quote.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: In spite of its apparently vulnerable position, this Court has
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: repeatedly overruled and thwarted both the Congress and the executive
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: And you know, people like President Trump who don't like
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: the ruling, people like Richard Nixon who want to keep
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: his tapes, they comply, that's in the water table, isn't it. Sarah.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 17: When I read that quote, I was like, Oh, this
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 17: is so modern. It explains exactly what's going on right now.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 17: My argument is that Donald Trump is actually helping the
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 17: Supreme Court. He is, on the one hand, proving how
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 17: independent it is from partisan politics and how independent his
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 17: own nominees are to the Court. And at the same
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 17: time he is ensuring its legitimacy by complying with its orders.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 17: He can rail against how much he hates these justices
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 17: and how much he hates this court after the tariff
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 17: to decision, and then immediately he took down his unlawful tariffs.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Perfect, perfect, and just like Richard Nixon. Here are the tapes.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to burn them, okay, Sarah, page two
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: forty one. Too often, you're right, casual court watchers think
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is deciding whether policy X is good policy.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: But as we know, the Court is often tasked with
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: deciding only who gets to decide? Actually, that's all the
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court ever does. Now, I've been teaching con law
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: for thirty one years and I've never put it that succinctly,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: but I wish I had, and I will steal it.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Would you expand on that?
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 16: Absolutely?
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 11: So.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 17: For instance, two of the biggest cases this term are
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 17: about whether Mississippi can accept mail in ballots five days
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 17: after the election. There's another big case on whether the
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 17: administration can turn someone away before they reach the southern
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 17: border technically and prevent them from applying for asylum in
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 17: this country. The questions before the Court in those cases
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 17: are not whether this is good policy or bad policy,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 17: or who's the good guys or anything else like that.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 17: The only question is what Congress said in the statutes
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 17: involved in that. In the ballot case, Congress says there's
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 17: an election day. Does that mean, as they talked about
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 17: an oral argument, the election has to be consummated on
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 17: election day or did Congress not really say anything about that.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 17: They just said there needs to be an election day
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 17: when you vote, and so they left it up to
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 17: the states to decide when to receive and count the ballots.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 17: What used to happen is that when Congress, sorry when
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 17: the Supreme Court would decide these cases, Congress the next
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 17: day would amend the act in question pass a new
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 17: law to fix it. They did this in the Voting
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 17: Rights Act case. They did this as recently in the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 17: Lily Ledbetter Act case during the Obama administration. None of
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 17: us believe that Congress will react to the Supreme Court's
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 17: decisions anymore. None of us believe that we have the
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 17: power to ratify a new amendment to the Constitution and
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 17: those so the Supreme Court becomes the last word instead
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 17: of part of this ongoing dialogue. And because they're not
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 17: democratically accountable, the pressure rises.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 16: As we don't feel like we can do anything about it.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 17: Confirmation hearings become more contentious because it's life tenure and
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 17: they're the last word, and all of that is bad
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 17: for the Court. But we're blaming the wrong branch.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 16: Blame Congress.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Progress. Amen. Are you betting on zero, one or two
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: retirements this term?
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 17: Sarah Iskar, I do not think that Clarence Thomas is retiring,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 17: so I'll knock out too right there. I think whether
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 17: Justice Alito is retiring is a very close call. There's
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 17: good arguments to be had on both sides. So going
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 17: with my gut, I think he's staying, but I could
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 17: make the argument that he's going. You know, when justices
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 17: often retire is July, second before a midterm election, and
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 17: that is where.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 16: We are.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 15: That.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 17: You know, what's interesting is to talk about who would
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 17: replace him, whether the White House is perhaps sending signals
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 17: to try to entice him to retire by telling him
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 17: that they'll, you know, for instance, a point a former
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 17: clerk like Judge Andy Oldham of the Fifth Circuit who
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 17: could continue his legacy. On the other hand, I really
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 17: liked the idea of picking someone like Ted Cruz because
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 17: I think we are missing something at the Supreme Court
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 17: by not having former elected officials and the just kind
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 17: of diversity that we.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 16: Used to have.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 17: I mean, these guys currently on the court all have
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 17: basically the exact same resumes. We've professionalized what it means
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 17: to be able to compete for a Supreme Court seat.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 17: You look at the guys on the Brown v. Board
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 17: of Education Court. Eight of them had served in the military,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 17: five of them went to public law schools. One of
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 17: them didn't even go to law school at all. Five
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 17: of them had been an elected office, a governor, some senators,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 17: a congressman, two attorneys general. That's a whole lot of
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 17: people who understand more than just how to teach fed
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 17: courts no offense, No.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: And I don't teach fed courts because I don't want to.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I just teach con law. I couldn't agree with you more.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: I was a Harriet Meyers backer to the bitter end,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: because she had been the managing partner of a law firm,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: which I thought would be an excellent skill set, a
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: big law firm, an excellent skill set on the court.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: But I couldn't say I've been enough to When I
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: was reading that part of Let's remind people the name
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: of the book last branch standing in bookstores now. Now
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: among the people who might, I think it's going to
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: be two retirements, because I think Clarence Thomas is the
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: most selfless person I've met in a long career in Washington, DC.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: And I think Judge Ldo was the same way in
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: Molly Hemingway's book is a big clue, I think. But
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: among replacements, Naomi Ral fifty three, David Strass fifty one.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: I Lean Cannon is forty five. That would make the
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: left head blow up. Allison Jones rushing on the Fourth
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Circuit is forty three. A mule with apart everybody's I
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: noticed you noted his book in your footnotes fifty six.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: Don Willett fifty nine, probably too old. Judge Hoe fifty three.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: What do you think of my list?
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 17: I think that's a great list. You left off Andy Oldham?
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 17: Is that because I already set him? You know, Judge
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 17: Andy Oldham of the Fifth Circuit? Okay, because he's young,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 17: he's an alito clerk. I think he's number one on
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 17: the list. But your list is the normy list, the
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 17: circuit court judge list. I think there's also John Sower,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 17: who's the current solicitor general. He has the shiny resume,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 17: but he also has served in this Trump administration. You know,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 17: Elena Kagan was Obama's.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 16: Solicitor general before she went on the Court.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 17: I think that's a path that Trump could look at
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 17: as well.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: You know, it's an interesting game of speculation. Do you
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: think that justices have tipped Trump? I do. I think
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: one or two of them have tip Trump so that
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: they can do the work quietly and announced a nominee
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: on July second, and that their resignation will take effect
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: upon confirmation. I don't think they're going to trumpet that
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: until the term is over.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 17: So we have you some insight into this from past terms.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 17: Three of the current justices replaced their former bosses whom
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 17: they had clerked for. Chief Justice Roberts replaced Chief Justice Renquist,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 17: of course, but notice the reason just jack Justice Kavanaugh. Yes,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 17: Justice Kavanaugh replaced Justice Kennedy. Justice Jackson replaced Justice Bryer.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 17: Both of those justices I would informationally speculate had been
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 17: enticed off the court by some indications of who would
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 17: replace them.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Sarah, isn't that terrible? We'll take this in the next segment.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: Professionalization is itself its own problem, which you have dealt
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: with to a greater extent than anyone else. I'd seeing
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: read this, but the idea of hereditary justices, though not
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: direct millenneal descendants. That bothers me a lot say in America,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Sarah's a lot guests, the book is last branch standing.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Go and get a welcome back in America. I'm Hugh Hewittt.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Sarah Isker me her brand new book is last branch standing,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: last branch standing, last branch standing. Not just for lawyers.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: The lawyers will benefit from it. It certainly will be
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: beneficial to law students who have to try and figure
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: out what all that gobbledygook means. Don't take fed courts.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: You don't have to do it. Don't go on long review,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: you don't need to do it. Let us join hands together,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: Sarah Isker, and denounce concurrences and long opinions you hold
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: up Sackett versus EPA. It's actually a nine oh case.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: It's the world in which I work permitting federal permitting
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: for the thirty years that I did parallel practice of
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: law with teaching and broadcasting. We've been waiting for Sacket
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: for years. It could have been three lines wetlands do
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: not give jurisdiction in the Army Corps engineer unless they're
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: attached to a jurisdictional water. Why is that happening. Why
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: do they all have to go on at great length.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 17: Well, you have to kind of go back in history.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 17: So the Supreme Court didn't have control over its docket
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 17: until nineteen twenty five. They had to hear every appeal
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 17: that was brought to them, which was miserable. They had
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 17: a whole backlog of cases. They all hated it, and
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 17: they begged Congress to have discretion over their jurisdiction. The
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 17: second they get that discretion, what it means to be
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 17: a Supreme Court justice, what the job of the Supreme
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 17: Court is, changes dramatically.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 16: And what we see in.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 17: The decades after that is the largest expansion of sort
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 17: of new constitutional rights in American history.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 16: Why because the justices had the time to do it,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 16: and they knew they wouldn't have to.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 17: Then take a whole flood of cases after they decided those.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 17: The other thing that happened was we start to see
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 17: the existence of dissents and concurrences. Slowly at first, but
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 17: a gas expands to Phillips container, so as the Supreme
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 17: Court took fewer and fewer cases. I mean, in my
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 17: lifetime they were taking one hundred and fifty cases. In
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 17: my law school time, they were taking close to that
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 17: many cases. They're now taking fewer than sixty a year,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 17: but they're basically writing the same amount. And these justices
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 17: as they sort of move more into the spotlight again
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 17: because Congress isn't doing its job and the presidencies running
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 17: the country by executive order, each justice.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 16: Wants to be known, to be heard, for.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 17: Their judicial ideology to be understood, and so they write
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 17: these concurrences. We are now up to an average of
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 17: three concurrences per opinion.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 16: That's mind blowing.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: Sarah, I don't know who taught you con law.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 17: Charles Freed, I had Charles Freed, I had some Jack Goldsmith.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, two superbs. I don't know what their rule is.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: I tell my law students. Ignore the concurrences. Find the
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: binding opinion that might be opinion of one in a
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: four to one four case. Find the binding opinion that's
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: the law you need to know until it changes. And
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: by the way, you can skip the descents unless they're
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: entertaining like Scillia and occasionally Justice Kagan throws in one
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: that they had to read. Did they approach it that
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: way or were they really boring or read it all
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: and know it all.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 17: That's a good question, you know, I guess I really
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 17: I like the concurrences as a reader and a pundit
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 17: and a nerd.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 12: And.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: The concurrences. Yeah, podcasters need to law.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 16: It's bad for the lower courts because.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 17: We've seen this in the Second Circuit, for instance, recently,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 17: the Supreme Court decides a gun case, but there's a
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 17: concurrence by Justice Jackson, and the Second Circuit applies the concurrence.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 17: And let's say, well, wait a second, what that's not
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 17: the opinion of the court.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: Not the opinion of the court. And I think it's
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: a you you highlighted. It's excellent. By the way, I
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: should tell the audience. You and David French do a
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: wonderful podcast called Advisory Opinions. I listened to it. If
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: I can't listen to the arguments, and sometimes they can't
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: look in the arguments because I'm working, And I would
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: like to make a request of advisory opinions. In the
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: column I write about your book tomorrow for Fox News,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: I make the argument that it is unconstitutional to pack
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: the court to go above nine. Even though the Fourteenth
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Amendment has passed with due process of law guarantee in
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight, and they change the number of justices
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: to nine in eighteen sixty nine, I still think the
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: due process of law will be broken if the court
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: is packed with five justice brown Jackson's the first time
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: the Democrats get a chance. What do you think of
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: my theory?
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 17: I think it would be really hard for the current
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 17: Supreme Court to be the one to say that. I
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 17: would love to do anything to prevent them from packing
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 17: the court. Anyone, you know, the rights really mad at
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 17: the Supreme Court.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 16: Now too, the political right.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 17: I mean, I don't want them packing the court. The
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 17: court is meant to be countermajoritarian. That's how we get
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 17: First Amendment rights. If everyone liked the speech, if the
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 17: majority loved what you were saying, you wouldn't need a
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 17: First Amendment to protect it. And the court being beholden
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 17: to a political branch will destroy that. Criminal justice rights gone,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 17: religious rights gone again, not because one side controls or
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 17: the other, but because the branch itself will have been destroyed.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 17: So I like that idea it's a question of like
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 17: who's going to stand up.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Question of how to make it justiciable. I don't know
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: how to get it before the court, but I would
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: like to have people like you and David. I think
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: David's mad at me. I'm not sure why, but I
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: would like to have people like you and David talking
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: about how the rule of law will be broken if
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: we pack the court either left or right. Let me
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: get to some of the fun stuff. If we can
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: Judge Hoe and the biosphere trees. I actually had not
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: read that until I read last Branch standing.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 16: You want to explain it, absolutely so.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 17: Judge James Hoe of the Fifth Circuit has been a
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 17: long time friend and mentor, and i'd heard him of
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 17: this speech about biosphere too. If you're older like me,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 17: you may remember this. In the early nineties, they built
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 17: a sphere and had people live in it for years
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 17: to sort of prove that we could create an earth,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 17: you know, if we wanted to go to Mars or
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 17: something like that. You could farm food and the trees
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 17: could make enough oxygen. And they had these trees that
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 17: they planted and they grew much faster than trees on
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 17: Earth because they didn't face, you know, any of the
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 17: adversity storms, wind, freezings, whatever, and then they would get
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 17: to a certain height and they would all fall over.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 17: And they realized that it was exactly because they didn't
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 17: have the wind and the freeze and the adversity. They
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 17: didn't build something that scientists now know as stress wood
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 17: that allows trees to thrive. And so the argument that
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 17: I make in the book is that the Supreme Court
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 17: has built, you know, two hundred plus years of stress
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 17: wood since John Marshall, and thanks to John Marshall, and
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 17: it's a much tougher branch than it was when Jefferson
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 17: tried to smother it.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: And thank god, in last branch standing, you'll come away
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: thinking this is a pretty good system. Let's not mess
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: it up. And maybe you will join me, all of
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: you listening, in defending the Senate filibuster, because that's the
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: first hurdle to protecting the Court that must be crossed. Sarah.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: Let's now talk about the justices themselves. I agree with
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: you the Chief Justice is basically this is a quote
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: the Shakespeare of legal writing. He really is. I also
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: agree with you that Justice Barrett is the one you
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: would most like to RSVP to your dinner party. When
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: did you decide to kind of come up with these
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: little one liners describing the justices? Justice Brown Jackson the
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: one you would most like to attend to Broadway musical
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: with if you wanted to sing, Yeah.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 17: If you don't mind the person next to you sort
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 17: of humming along and singing, which, frankly, I saw Chess
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 17: on Broadway two months ago and I had trouble not
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 17: sing along because it's my favorite musical. When did I
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 17: decide that, I don't know, You're like writing is such
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 17: a solo project and you sort of are entertaining yourself
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 17: along the way as well.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 16: And I wanted people to.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 17: Understand, you know, like one personal human takeaway for each justice.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 16: Several of whom I've known.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 17: You know, Elena Kagan was my dean in law school,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 17: and I knew her quite well. I was married by
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 17: Justice Kavanaugh in his chambers, and I wanted people to
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 17: feel those things that I know from them, but without
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 17: having to write, you know, pages and.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: People, without dishing. I want to say it is the
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: nicest revelatory book about the justices. Casara's not out to
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: assassinate anyone's character or attack anyone's judicial philosophy. It's a
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: grand book, last branch standing. She's coming right back. She
• 1:17:51
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  Speaker 1: slash Q Welcome back, America. I hope you're enjoying Sarah
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: is her brand new book, Last Branch Standing is a
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: fabulous book. Read more about it in my column for
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: Fox News tomorrow. Sarah, let's do a little bit of
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: the dishing. You say that the deciders are Chief Justice
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: Roberts and Justices Barrett and Kavanaugh. I think that's impossible
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: to argue with. And you also note that some conservatives,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: I think this can be overstated, are mad at Justice Barrett.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: I love Justice Barrett. I think she's brilliant. I mean absolutely,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: If I'm in front of Justice Barrett, I'm going to
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: get a fair decision, whether I'm right or wrong. I
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: also think that's true about the Chief and about Judge Kavanaugh.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: And I don't know Judge Kavanaugh at all. I know
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: the Chief best of all of them, and I barely
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: know Justice Barrett. I've only interviewed her a couple of times.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: Who do you think you'd get the fairest shake from
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: on the court.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 17: I think you and I are going to be always
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 17: drawn to Justice Barrett because she's a formalist, and I
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 17: think you and I are kind of formalists as well,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 17: Like you want to make sure every T and I
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 17: is dotted before you even get into court, because we
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 17: don't want the court reaching down to choose its cases.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 17: The court has a very specific and hands off role.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 17: And I like that about the way she approaches the law.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 17: But and you've sort of mentioned this a little bit previously.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 17: If you just want a great opinion, I mean you
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 17: want Justice Kagan on that she's the best writer on
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 17: the court. And I went back and read her master's
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 17: thesis from before she went to law school. Turns out
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 17: she's always been a good writer. Was she born this way?
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 17: Like I need to find like a third grade paper to.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: Check now if I lost to Justice Kagan, and I've
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: never argued before the Streme Court, so it's a hypothetical.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: I've only argued before the Ninth Circuit. If I lost
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: to Justice Kagan, I would have to revisit the point
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: of view that I was trying to argue. You call
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: Neil Gorsich the vigilante and that he'd be the best
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: justice in a bar fight. I think that's very well
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: put So have you heard from him about that yet?
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 17: I have not, but I talked to many many clerks
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 17: for this book, and Justice Gorsich's former clerks have certainly
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 17: read that and they didn't argue with it.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 16: I'll just say that.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: All right now. I want to get to the professionalization,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: because here you are singing Hughes song. As I said,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: I supported Harriet Meyers because she'd been White House counsel,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: she would have the executive branch point of view, she'd
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: managed a large law firm. She was not a scholars
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: scholar and not a Circuit Court justice judge. And I
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: just think we've gone way off the railroad toward professionalization.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Then you put the stats in on feeder judges and
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: how one gets to be a clerk, and how you
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: make a half million dollar bonus when you come off
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: the clerkship. This is not what the Framers intended. Sarah,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: how much of a problem do you think it is
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: or do you like it?
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 17: I think it's a big problem for the future of
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 17: the court as the pool gets narrower and narrower, and
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 17: that pool is more and more removed from all sorts
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 17: of parts of American life. And if you're not in
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 17: that pool, you can't keep moving up. So one of
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 17: the problems I point out, you know, as we talked
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 17: about to become a Supreme Court justice at this point,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 17: you need to have clerked for a Supreme Court justice.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 17: To clerk for a Supreme Court justice, you must have
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 17: clerked for multiple Circuit court judges. Well, guess what, there's
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 17: a set number of circuit court judges. So when we
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 17: have to have all of these students, Justice.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: Tell people what a feeder justice is.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 17: Well, not all circuit judges are created equal. There are
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 17: some who send more of their clerks to the Supreme Court.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 17: So like when Justice Kavanaugh was Judge Kavanaugh on the
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 17: DC Circuit, three point four out of four of his
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 17: clerks a year on average went on to clerk at
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 17: the Supreme Court. That's the highest number that I have
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 17: been able to find of all time. But that's the
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 17: type of thing that a feeder judge is. But it
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 17: also means that we're having fewer clerks overall because some
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 17: of the clerks are hungry, hungry, hippoing up the clerkships,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 17: and of course they're going to be the ones who
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 17: are able to take lower paying jobs for multiple years
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 17: to put off joining a law firm, or starting their careers,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 17: or moving home to take care of their parents. Things
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 17: like that, They're going to come from a certain amount
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 17: of elite privilege. And second they're very likely to have
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 17: come from an Ivy league or adjacent law school. And
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 17: guess how you get into those by going to an
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 17: IVY league or adjacent undergrad And guess how you get
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 17: into those by having a certain profile and resume early
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 17: in your life. So in many ways, we are narrowing
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 17: the pool to become a Supreme Court justice to like
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 17: what ninth graders are choosing, and.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: We are geographically we are geographically narrowing it. Until Justice
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: Barrick came along, from now on, we had not had
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: a Southerner forever, and most of our judges, justices, including
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: Justice Gorsich that he came from Colorado, grew up in DC.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: The Beltwegh effect on these people is extraordinary. Do you
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: think that's bad for him too?
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 17: Obviously that when we come back, can I tell you
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 17: about how Justice Gorsicch and Kavanaugh are twins and how
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 17: it actually helps explain a whole other world view into
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 17: the Supreme Court.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: I can't wait what's coming Right Back with Sarah is
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: her brand new book, Last Branch Standing, her podcast with
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: David French's advisory opinions, Stay tuned, Ortum Back America. My
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: last segment was Sarah Flores. Her book is Last Branch Standing.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: Last Branch Standing is available in bookstores and airports, at Amazon,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: at Barnesandnoble dot com. You'll love it. You'll laugh, I mean,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: you really will laugh. We got to get to Mississcullia's
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: meatballs in a second, But first tell me how Kavanaugh
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: and gorcicch or twins.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 17: So this is an important way to understand the court
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 17: because we're told by the media all the time just
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 17: to think of them as partisans. In Congress, right, it's six'
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 17: three right versus, Left republican Versus, democrat red shirt blue.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 17: Shirt gorsich And kavanaugh only agreed with each other fifty
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 17: percent of the time last. Term Justice kavanaugh was more
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 17: likely to agree with every other justice Except Justice jackson
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 17: than With Justice. Gorsich but they're both like the same
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 17: amount of. Conservative so why they also both came from
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 17: POWERFUL dc mothers before there was a women's restroom in The.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 17: Senate they went to the same high school and had.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 16: The same history.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 17: Teacher they clerked on The Supreme court for the same
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 17: justice on the same. Term they both had senior jobs
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 17: in the w, administration then go on the circuit, courts
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 17: and then are appointed by the same president to The Supreme.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 17: Court so why aren't these guys ruling the same? WAY i,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 17: mean they're federalist society lab petri dish, creations and yet
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 17: they repair tell each other to other sides of the
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 17: V and the answer is because of their, institutionalism. Incrementalism
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 17: how they view story decisis all these things that the
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 17: media doesn't talk to us about but that are actually
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 17: really important predictors of how these cases are going to come.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 16: Out So kavanaugh thinks of this as a middle school group.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 17: Project, Right everyone contributes what they, can but at the
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 17: end of the, day you turn in one diorama to the.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 17: Teacher gorsich is, Like i'm just here to tell you
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 17: What neil.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 16: Thinks that's my only. Job and so he's the great.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 17: Concurror he's adding his two cents almost every time that
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 17: there's a major. Decision obviously in the tariff's case that's
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 17: sort of his most famous concurrence to, date And he's,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 17: LIKE i don't really care what previous courts. DECIDED i
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 17: don't care what the effects of this decision are going to.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 16: Be that's not my.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 17: Problem go To, congress go to The. President but here
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 17: my job is just to tell you the fourcorner of
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 17: the case and the facts of the.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: Law IF i destroyed most of the jurisdiction Of oklahoma's
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: police department by rendering it unsuitable For indian, lands Don't
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: it's not my. Problem it's a treaty's, Problem. Sara do
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: you also think it might be because each of the
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: nine are particularly passionate about a specific. THING i Think
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: Justice barrett is very passionate about the free exercise. Case in,
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: fact in The city Of PHILADELPHIA. E. Pulton in a,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: concurrence she, said you, Know Employment, DIVISION B, smith it's
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: dead case. Walking we got to come up with something.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: New but the academic world has not yet provided her
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: with a new. Test and we've talked about that on
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: this show and on before live. AUDIENCES i think they
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: all have. Passions they're normal. People they get excited about
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: some stuff and other stuff they don't care. ABOUT i
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: think that's.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 17: TRUE i also just think some of them are more,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 17: incrementalists you, know like with that opinion that you talk,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 17: About she's, Like, okay we're going to move right. Here
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 17: then we're going to look around see what the second
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 17: order effects might be that we maybe didn't think, about
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 17: and then we'll.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 16: Take the next step in the next.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 17: Case Whereas gorsic in the McGirt case that you're talking
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 17: about In oklahoma was, like, YOLO i don't care what
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 17: happens to have a new, treaty not my.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: Problem so how has how has this book been? RECEIVED i,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: mean first of, all do the justices listen right? Now we,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: have because we are doing this in the five o'clock,
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: hour at least two justices. Listening do the justices tell
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: you one way or the other what they think about
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: advisory opinions your podcast or have you gotten any feedback
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: on last branch standing from? Them?
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 16: YET i have.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 17: Reason to believe that justices tune in from time to
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 17: time to the. PODCAST i sent each of them a
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 17: copy of the, book, certainly AND i got a very
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 17: lovely note from one of the justices thanking me for
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 17: trying to explain the court to.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: Everyone i'm going to guess That's Justice, barrett because she
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: is the epitome of good manners and WHAT i will call,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: winsomeness by the, WAY i use that word in with
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: regard to your writing in tomorrow's Review Last Branch, Standing,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: Sarah you've done so, Much you've been so many. Places
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: what's your?
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 16: AMBITION i WISH i knew the answer to.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 17: THAT i think all the, time especially right, now WHAT
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 17: i want to be WHEN i grow. Up i've changed
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 17: careers several. Times i've rarely held a job for more
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 17: than eighteen months or. So as you, KNOW i was
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 17: on the campaign trail for like fifteen years for a.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 17: While SO i GUESS i get bored easily OR i
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 17: get fired. EASILY i don't.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: Know are you interested in teaching the next? GENERATOR i
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: find teaching to be. WONDERFUL i take now in my older,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: YEARS i take every other year off because it's not that.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: Wonderful are you going to be a, teacher sud be
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: a superb.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 16: TEACHER i love.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 17: UNDERGRADUATES i think law students maybe already know a little
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 17: too much and are a little too. Solidified BUT i
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 17: do like talking to law students. Too the problem IS
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 17: i get so attached to each ONE i have to
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 17: spend enormous amounts of, time you, know grading every paper
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 17: to give them notes and taking them to coffee and
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 17: figuring out their, internships and it becomes it's very much
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 17: a lifelong. RELATIONSHIP i just got a text earlier today
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 17: from a former student At George Washington university who's gone
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 17: on into campaign, world And i'm just so proud of
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 17: each one of them WHEN i do do you know adjunct?
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: Teaching? Now in terms of, books, though Last Branch standing
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: is a pretty definitive look at the. Court where do
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: you go from? Here in your?
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 17: Writing i'm pretty interested in writing, about for, instance like
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 17: The netflix version Of marborie Versus. Madison some of these
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 17: cases maybe that people have heard about but they don't
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 17: really know what they're, about or the law part might
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 17: be a little bit, boring but the characters and bringing
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 17: people into that history and how modern it feels to,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 17: Me i'd love to write something like.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: That and of The. Justice some have written their on
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: Books Justice Barrett, justice of, course It's Justice Thomas Justice
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: Pryor chief hasn't written one of all the non justice
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: authored books we have a, minute which are the best
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: about the?
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 17: Court oh my, gosh non justice authored a Mul Fa parr's.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 16: Book he's a judge on the Sixth.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 17: Circuit he's just wonderful and his writing is so. Accessible
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 17: oh my. Gosh Stuart banner's history of The Supreme court
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 17: is really, dense but you will learn a. Ton oh my,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 17: Gosh i'm gonna forget so many.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: Is a good. One that's a beautiful book because it
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: talks about the people behind the cases and the People's
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: let me be closed by, saying when you read the
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: acknowledgments In sarah's, book you're going to be. Stunned they
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: are left, right, center, up, down, short, tall thin and.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: Heavy they are from every which. Way because everybody in
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: the business Likes. Sarah the book is again last branch.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: Standing Congratulations sarah Is kirt