Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Daniel Villegas: Exonerated After 20 years of Wrongful Imprisonment

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Daniel Villegas: Exonerated After 20 years of Wrongful Imprisonment · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

• 0:00
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  Speaker 1: That's B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash P-O-D. Start your journey to
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  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Today on Misunderstood
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: with Rachel Uchitel, the inspiring and empowering story of Daniel Villegas.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: If the defendant will please stand.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: The last 25 years of his life, much.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Of it in prison, has all led up to this moment.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: In the District Court.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: Of El Paso County, Texas, 409th Judicial District, the State
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: of Texas v. Daniel Villegas, number 94-0D-09328. Verdict Form B. We,
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: the jury, find the defendant, Daniel Villegas, not guilty of.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: For the first time since he was 16 years old,
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: 25 years ago, Daniel Villegas is a free man.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Mr. Villegas, you have been under many conditions in this court.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: You are no longer under any conditions in this court.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: You are free to leave. Good luck to you.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Daniel, thank you so much for joining me. You are
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: the best. I'm just so in awe of your story,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: and I wanted to bring you on Misunderstood because I
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: think you are the epitome of someone like I have
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: on my show, someone who's been misunderstood, a situation that's
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: been misunderstood, someone who has been reduced to a single
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: headline and is on a mission to change their narrative.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining me, Daniel. It
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: is an honor and a pleasure to have you here.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: So I want to get our listeners a full narration
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: of your story. Obviously, I want to know how you
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: got here to where you are now. But I think
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: your story is so incredible that I want to go
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: through it. Is that okay with you?
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Perfect. You're fine.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: So let's start with where we were, who you were
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: at 16 years old, before that night happened. Just tell
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: me about your childhood really briefly and where you were
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: at mentally, physically, with your family, with your friends up
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: until that night.
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: Well, um, at that time we were living in the
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: Northeast of El Paso, which was a pretty, uh, pretty
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: bad part of El Paso, pretty bad neighborhood. Um, as
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: far as like, uh, my mental state was, you know,
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: I was just a young kid, uh, having fun. Um,
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: I figured, uh, my plan was to always become a Marine.
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: So I figured I'd just kind of straighten out at
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: the end, you know, and, and, uh, start working my
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: way up to, um, to get it prepared to do that. But, um,
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: you know, as far as growing up, I grew up
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: in a, you know, my family were really close-knit.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: That's one thing that helped me in prison. We're very, very,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: very close family. We're always with it.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: There was a lot of love there. I mean, I'm
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: not going to say, you know, no one's parents are perfect.
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: You know, I'm not a perfect parent, but, um, It
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: was a lot of love there, though.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: You know, I could always depend on them. You know,
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: I don't care if I called them at 2 in
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: the morning, they would be there for me. You know,
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: that type of love and family bond that we had.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: And as you see later in your story, your family
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: is really what stuck by you and helped you get
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: through this and essentially got you out of prison. So
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: we'll allude to them later. But go ahead.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: So I grew up, like I said, in a pretty strong,
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: you know, family bond. where we depend on each other. Um,
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  Speaker 5: my growing up was, you know, my dad was a
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: mechanic and my mom would clean houses in Fort Bliss.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: That's a military base here in El Paso. And, um,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: that's how we live, you know, a blue collar family. Yeah.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Um, and what were your friends like?
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: All my friends, you know, there were back in them days,
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: the gang were pretty prevalent. And so all my friends
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: were associated with a lot of gangs. Everybody at that
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: time was, I mean, It was everybody and their mama
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: was part of something or you had a relative that
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: was part of something, especially in that neighborhood where we
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: lived at.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: And that was my friends.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: You know, there were, you know, a bunch of wild
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: delinquent kids running the streets without any guidance, I guess
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: you can call us. You know, we were due in
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: our parents. Not that we came from a lot of
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: us really didn't come from. I'm not going to say
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: broken home, but we didn't have a split up. We
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: had a mom and dad and most of my friends did.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: But, you know, they worked so much, you know, they
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: never kept up with us.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: So you were on your own kind of.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: But so you said that were you actually part of
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a gang or you just knew a bunch of gang members?
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: No, I was associated with a gang member. Yes, I
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: was at that time. Okay.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: And would you say that what you guys did in
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the gang was violent? Was it mean? Was it abusive?
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Or were you guys like a gang, like doing coloring books?
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Like what were you guys doing?
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I mean, it's, it's like, it depends on what,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: who you are.
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: I mean, cause you know, you're going to have them
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: guys that want to go out there and fight all
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: day long.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: And you're going.
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: To have them guys that want out there and go
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: rob all day long.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: And then, you know, everybody starts off, you know, in
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: the gang and, you know, cause it's a neighborhood thing
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: and they're all kids who.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Grew up together, basically from elementary. Yeah. You know, so.
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: They, uh, so like I said, so when they get
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: older and older, it just progresses worse and worse.
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  Speaker 2: How their behavior is.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It gets worse. And it
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: depends on who you are. Me, I was more of a, and, uh,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I was more of a party guy.
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  Speaker 5: I was a guy who liked to do backflips, uh, on,
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: on the back of a pickup truck, you know, how
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: to jump off a balcony into swimming pools.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I was at, uh, that fun guy that
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: everybody wanted at the party.
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  Speaker 5: I was, uh, Mostly then if you look at date,
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: I know, I mean, it's not that I, I, um,
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: you know, say that that's okay. But I laughed when
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: my mom and them, they're like, well, how was he?
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: And they're like, he likes to party. Everyone has the
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: same answer. Cause that was me. You know, I was
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: more of a party guy. You know, I like to
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  Speaker 5: go out and just, you know, do crazy stuff. Like,
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: you know, just to.
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  Speaker 1: So had you ever gotten in trouble before? Had you
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: ever been arrested before?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, everybody have gone through that.
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  Speaker 5: There's a cop for prevailing and you had the gang
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  Speaker 5: task force division that would always come down on you.
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  Speaker 2: And I did, I, you know, I caused trouble. I
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: got arrested for some misdemeanors. I got arrested for, it
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: was a criminal trespassing charge.
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  Speaker 5: I got arrested for also, I can't remember if they
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: put it as a robbery charge or as a theft charge.
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: I want to say they put it at a death charge.
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  Speaker 5: We had stole this guy's beer coming out of a store.
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  Speaker 2: When my friend did.
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  Speaker 5: And then I just, and when he showed up to
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: the apartments, you know, I told him to give me
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: the beer because then he got it for us anyway.
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  Speaker 5: And I was going to hide it. And I didn't
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  Speaker 5: know that the police officer was there, so they had
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: got us.
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  Speaker 1: But at this point, you had never been in trouble
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: by beating up kids or any sort of abuse or
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: physical violence kind of thing?
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  Speaker 2: Not arrested.
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  Speaker 5: I was kicked out of school a lot for fights
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: because in them times, like I said, gangs were prevalent
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: in the school. So they're always going to get you
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: in the bathroom. Kind of prepared you for prison in
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: a way. You got to go in a pack to
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: the bathroom. Everywhere you go, you go in a group,
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: you know?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: So as far as that goes, yes, I have.
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: But getting arrested for like assaulting somebody or anything like that, no.
• 9:28
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• 11:25
  Speaker 1: to the night that this tragedy occurred. This was in April, right,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: of 19, what year was this? 1993.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: 1993. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Armando Lazo and Bobby England were two kids that
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: were murdered. They were walking with two of their other
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: friends when a car came by and ended up shooting
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: them both, correct? Am I getting that right?
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Yes. Right.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: And basically, well, ultimately, you got arrested and charged with
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: capital murder. But where were you? Were you there that evening?
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: No, I wasn't there that evening. I was in fact
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: I was a few miles down the street, away from
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: that area, helping my friend.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Well, not helping him.
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: I was just keeping him company while he was babysitting.
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: So we're watching some movie at that apartment and eating pizza.
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: And then we'll go outside and smoke a couple of joints.
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: And that's what we're doing. I stood there that night
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: with them going back and forth until we finished.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: I can't remember if we finished the second movie or not.
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: But around that time is when we left me and
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: my friends went back to my house where we were,
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: you know, where we're going to sleep at because my.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: House had a lot of runaways.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Got it. Um, so did you know this group of
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the four friends, um, that were, you know, ultimately attacked?
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Did you know them?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't know them. I didn't know.
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: Uh, I, I became, uh, I, I got to know
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: Jesse later on, but, um, I didn't know who they
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: were at that time, and I didn't know who the
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: guys were either who did the crime.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, so now talk to me about how you got involved.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: At what point did they, you know, point you out?
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I know it had to do with your cousin who
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: was picked up. Tell us that story.
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so like I said, I was a very big
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: prankster and jokester. And David Rangel, he was a very
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: gullible guy. He was like my brother, though, you know?
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: he was a year older than me. He was my
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: first cousin and he always stood at our house, like
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: every weekend on the holidays.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, anytime there was no school, he was at house.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: He was a nerd kind of guy. I like to
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: read a lot, you know?
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: And, uh, so he was real gullible, very intelligent book wise,
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: not just read smart, not too intelligent, but, uh, so, uh,
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: I don't know. My, my friend, one of my other friends,
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: he had, his sister had a paper route. And so
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: he had seen the murders on the newspaper. So after
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: the paper route, he came to my house and he
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: was like, Oh man, look, some kids got killed. And so,
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: you know, we're looking at the newspaper and stuff. And then,
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: you know, so he grabbed the paper, he goes. And
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: then later on that day, David calls, you know, cause he's,
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: trying to figure out what we're going to do on
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: the weekend. Like I said, you're always there on the weekend.
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: So I decided to immaturely put a prank on him
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: and told him that we did that.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: So this statement you made to your cousin ended up
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: being the thing that snowballed into this whole nightmare that
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: lasted for at least 20 years and then some. But
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: so just to put it succinctly, you made a joke
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: and you said, oh, yeah, I killed these guys. he
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: took it as a real thing, even though he says
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: later that he thought you were joking, correct?
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: No, he didn't take it as real.
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: He was kind of like not believing and kind of believing.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: But then, like I said, we were laughing when I
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: was doing it. Marcos was with me.
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: That was my best friend that lived with us at
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: the time. He was a homeless kid that stayed with us.
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: That's why I tell you my house was like a
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: runaway shelter. And so, you know, so Marcos, you know, Marcos...
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: you know, he really loved David too, you know, and,
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: and he's always was like, every time we try to
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: put a prank on David, he'd be the one to
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: try to stop us. So Marcos gets the phone from
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: me and he's telling David, Hey man, this guy's lying.
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: You know, you know, he's just trying to message you, blah, blah, blah.
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: And you know, um, and that was it. We went
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: from there.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: I don't, David never got in contact with the police.
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: That's where a lot of people get it confused. They
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: thought that he contacted the police, but he didn't. That's
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: where the story is kind of crazy. Cause I don't
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: know how, they got David. Due to the fact that
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: David lives in a whole different side of town.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Got it. But somehow, Officer Marquez, Detective Marquez, was the
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: man who sort of took charge of this whole thing.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: He ends up contacting David. He ends up accusing David
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: of being involved in this murder. And, you know, with
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: being so nervous and feeling like he needs to have
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: his one card to get out of here, he says, well,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't do it, but I did speak to my
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: my cousin, Daniel, who did, um, admit to doing this crime,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: but he was just joking, but you know, I can
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: give you that information. Is that how that kind of
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: went down the pike?
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Uh, kind of, yeah.
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: They, they, they threatened him and all that interrogated him
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: and scared the hell out of him, told him he
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: was going to be raped. And then, yeah, he broke
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: and told him that he remembered when I joked about that, uh,
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: killing them guys with a, with a shotgun.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: And that's when he gave the statement. Right.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: So, um, So he was in this room with Officer Marquez,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: who we learn later throughout this whole story, ends up
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: accusing a couple different kids of doing this in a
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: very violent and aggressive way, making awful threats like that
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: he'll fry them, that they will go to prison, that
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: they will get raped. And all these 16-year-old kids obviously
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: said they didn't do it. And then you come into
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the picture and Why don't you tell us what happens
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: during your interrogation?
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, a lot of them kids said they did
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: They did.
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they got some of them made confessions admitting that
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: they did it as well.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: But for some reason or another, I think one of
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: them was because he was in New Mexico.
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: So when they went and got him, they didn't realize
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: he was because like Texas, New Mexico is so close,
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: you know. They didn't realize that he was in New Mexico,
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: so when they brought him to Texas, you know, that
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: was like an illegal transfer of state, you know, a
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: juvenile from one state to the next.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: And so they had to throw his statement away, if
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: I remember correctly. So various people also made statements. They just,
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: for some reason or another, they threw those statements away,
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: and they didn't.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Get charged with the crime.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Right, because it didn't fit. So what I want people
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to understand, because we're not looking at it from the
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: end here, is that this guy, Detective Marquez, was talking
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to kids and formulating a statement for them that under
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: these tactics he was using was so aggressive and egregious
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: and violent and threatening and scary for a 16-year-old to
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: deal with that you guys just to get out of
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: it finally were like, okay, I did it. I just,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: you know, because you had no way out. Explain what
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: that's like because obviously people will be saying, well, you know,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: why would kids admit that they did it? If they
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: didn't do it. And then here you are. That's what
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: ended up happening to you. You admitted to something which
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: ended up being the one thing that the prosecution held
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: on to keep you in prison, even though a lot
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: of the stuff didn't match up. So talk to me
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: about what an interrogation is like that makes someone, you know,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: flip their answer and say they did something if they
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: didn't do it.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: So, like, a lot of people always ask me that question, like, why, why,
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: you know? And, you know, the best thing I can
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: tell them is, and I got to give them one
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: metaphor before I explain it to them, because I tell
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: them it's just like soldiers when they go to war.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: They train, they train to get, you know, they go
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: through all these stimulus, whatever.
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: But if you look at Black Hawk Down, if you
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: ever read that book, them guys say clearly, they're like,
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: but when the bullets were flying, all our training was,
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: out the window you know and that how it is
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: in an interrogation as well they like literally you know
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: every interrogation is different mine was they literally were like
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: they were slapping me in the back of the head
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: and stuff and and threatening me and telling me.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: They're going to put me in the thing, but the
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: worst thing.
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: Or I should say the most, the thing that broke
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: me the most wasn't so much just a slap in
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: the head. It was the fact that he would get
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: on the table and I kind of lean over to
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: where I'm at. And you know, he has his badge
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: and it's on that little, like a dog tag thing
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: or whatever. And that badge would be like slapping me
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: in my forehead. And he's telling me he's going to
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: take me out to the desert. He's going to rape me,
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: or not rape me, but beat me, get me naked
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: and all that. And no one's going to do shit
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: because I'm just a low-life gang member and he is
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: the police officer.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I'm the detective. Who do you think they're going to believe?
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: And while he's telling me this stupid freaking badge, he's
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: still clapping me in my face.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: And it's like telling me, you're out. You're screwed. Who
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: is going to believe you? But that badge was the.
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: Probably the worst of it all because like i said
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: it's not so much that it was and it was
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: hurt when it hit me it was just what it
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: was signifying and it was just slapping in the face
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: and every time he's making a threat it felt like
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: that badge was just hitting me like just here it is.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Here it is you know right and after a while
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: they just.
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: Wear you down and break it's america i didn't do
• 21:19
  Speaker 6: it i'll tell him i did i'll get the hell
• 21:22
  Speaker 6: out the freaking room get away from this person and Hey,
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: we got the perfect, we got the perfect justice system
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: and they're going to.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Find who the real guy is and I'll be able
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: to be off the hook. And that's what you think. Right.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: And it's not the case.
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• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: And Texas law actually states that you don't have to
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: be interrogated. You don't have to have a lawyer or
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: a parent present in the room for a minor, correct?
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: So that's why this happened and you were all by yourself.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: at 16 years old during this interrogation?
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: That and that the system just doesn't work.
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: You know, they're supposed to take you in front of
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: a judge and then the judge is supposed.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: To look at you and talk to you, ask you
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: how you're doing, ask you, you know, he's supposed to
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: make you feel comfortable.
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: And the reason is, is because he's trying to find out,
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: you know, if you really want.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: To do this or not.
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: You mean make the confession. And then they have another Exactly.
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: And then they have another officer that's supposed to interrogate you.
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: When I mean interrogate, they're not going to ask you.
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: They're just trying to find out if you want to
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: go with the officer or not, right? And none of
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: that works. Like they go in front of you and
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: they don't even ask you. They'll just say, okay, are
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: you going to go with the officer? You say yes,
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: they get up and go. They don't ask you how
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: you're doing. They don't ask you, are you comfortable? And
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: all these safeguards, it's just a formality.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: And it's just like pushing you through the system.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Well, it seems that Officer Marquez seemed to want to
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: pin this on someone very quickly, tried to do that
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: with a couple kids. It didn't work. But in your situation,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: it seemed to work. You decided to admit that you
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: did this based on him actually getting out and using
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: the typewriter, writing what happened, looking at you and saying,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: isn't that correct? And you responded with yes, right? And
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: that's how the statement got formed?
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's how it got formed. Yeah.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: And then later on, after this was done, you finally
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: did see your mom, right?
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, I saw her.
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: Later on that day because that was already like four
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: in the morning. So like let's say around, I can't
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: remember if it was late morning. It was after I
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: seen one of my probation officer.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: And then I made a statement to her and I
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: told her that I was, you know, that they forced
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: me to confess. So it had to be, yeah, probably
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: about 12 or something I came. My mom comes to me.
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: and starts talking to them.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: So pretty recently, I mean, right after the confession, you
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: saw your probation officer and you told them that you
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: were coerced into signing these papers.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did. Well, I didn't use the word coercive.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I didn't talk like that back then.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Those are my words. Yeah. Sorry about that. So, all right.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: And then explain, let's go through how it went down.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: You ended up going to trial, correct? Correct. Your family,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: it seems, was able to scrounge up $ 10, 000 and hire
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: you an actual attorney who put on, I believe, 18
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: different witnesses to testify in your behalf, correct? I mean,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: they didn't have an eyewitness. You had an alibi. You
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: had a story. You recanted your statement. You had all
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: these things. You had friends testifying all sorts of ways
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: in your behalf. However, they basically went with the fact
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: that you had signed a confession. Is that how it
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: went down in your trial?
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: Like I said, his name was Jaime Olivas. He was
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: a young lawyer just coming up. And he put up
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: 18 witnesses. He did a, you know, we thought he.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Did a good job at that time.
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: You know, but like, I still think he did, you know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: he tried his best, you know, and he was, like
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: I said, this was his first actual capital murder case too.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, that's got to be intimidating.
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: And so now that I get it, I work in the,
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: you know, the law system, I know how intimidating that
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: can be. You know, you always second guess yourself and
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: you try to do the best thing. Sometimes it works,
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: sometimes it don't.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Well, it seems like it worked that time because there
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: was a hung jury, one person held out and said
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: not guilty. And so you had to be retried a
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: second time, correct?
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. And he tried to be my lawyer.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, right. Okay. The guy who would pay $ 10, 000 too,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: but you didn't have any more money to pay him.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: So you have to go, you had to go with
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: a public defender, correct?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Yes. But we asked for him though.
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: And he asked to be put on the case.
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: He said, I already tried it the first time, you know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: we did a speech and they denied him.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: They didn't want him on that case. So then they
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: gave me John Gates. Right. Yeah.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Who ended up putting no witnesses on the stand on
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: your behalf, or maybe it was one.
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: One witness, a marksman, that was it. And just to
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: say that that shot was impossible to make.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Right, right. So, I mean, that seems like, you know,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: something I want to just hit home for a second.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, you paid $ 10, 000 to a lawyer who helped you,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: gave you a hung jury. At least somebody, you know,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: was holding out for you. Then the public defender comes around,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: kind of does nothing for you. and says, well, it's
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: their burden, it's the prosecution's burden to prove this case,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: and he just let it go, right? I mean, it
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like he did a good job of representing you,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and there was so much evidence in the way that
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: this did not happen. You were not the person that
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: killed these two kids, but he did not put that
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: evidence up, and you were found guilty, correct, by the jurors?
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was found guilty in less than two hours.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: In less than two hours. Okay, so what was that like?
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: What was that like, your first night in prison, knowing
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: that you were guilty and going away for, I think
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: you got sentenced to two life terms, one after the other?
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: What were you sentenced to?
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: It was a capital life sentence. So it means I
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: had 35 to life.
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: 35 to life.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Wow, so how did that feel?
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: You know, when they convicted me, I was in shock.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. I was like, this is... I
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: didn't think that. happened in America.
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: I have, you know, like I said, I had a
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: lot of faith in America. I wanted to be a Marine,
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: you know. My family were always, you know, strong on
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: the military and everything. And so it really kind of
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: crushed me. But at the same time, I was like,
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: you know, my life is complete. be over like there
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: is no yeah there's nothing else we can do you know.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: And so I said you know so what.
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna do is I just said the hell with
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: this I'm gonna die in prison so I'm just gonna
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: go in there and be the best convict there is.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Um right so um and then how how many years
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: were you in prison before you started to uh have
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: some hope again I mean what tell me about like
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the a day in the life of in prison.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: A day? Yeah.
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: Oh, so like, you know, it all depends on what
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: year we're talking about. You know, my first years in prison,
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: you know, that's when it was rougher because we were
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: in what they call gladiator prison.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: That's where, you know, you're going to fight all day.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: And so, like I said, like our first day there,
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: you know, I remember it was like 15 of us
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: in the guard has us all in a line and
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: we're all you know all of us i'm just lying
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: nobody over 19 right and uh he's telling me look
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: i'm gonna open up this door and when i do
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: he said half y'all gonna get raped two of y'all
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: might come out dead but every one of you guys
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: need your ass kicked welcome to the burning hell wow
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: You shouldn't have done what you did to come here.
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: He said, my only advice is come on with your
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: gloves on, ready to fight. And then they opened up
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: the doors and they let us in. And, yeah, they
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: ran through every.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: One of us, you know. Wow.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: And some did come out raped and everything. It was
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: just the way it went back then.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Wow. That was how it was in the beginning.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: And then you were there for 20 years.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Knowing that you did not commit the crime that you
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: were there for.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That was the worst part. Yeah.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's so upsetting to even be talking to
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: you and know that that is what you went through. Okay,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: so now I want to get into where this takes
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: a turn and how this becomes really interesting. Your brother
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: was married to this woman, Lucy, right?
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: No, they weren't married. They just had kids together. They
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: were a high school couple, and they had three kids.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: They never were married, married, far the church goes. Okay.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I meant she was part of your family because
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: she was with your brother, had some kids with them.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: They ended up breaking up and she was very close
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: with your parents, obviously knew you, knew your story, was
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: with your brother when you had been accused and when
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: you went to prison and all this stuff. She ends
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: up marrying a man who, you know, becomes friendly with
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: your parents, right? And takes interest in your case. This
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: is where John Mimbella comes into the story, who becomes
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: an angel to you.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: How would you describe who John is to you?
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is an angel.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: You know, I mean, even back then and even to
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: this day, you know, he always is there for me.
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: You know, no matter what, he's always there. That's kind
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: of something that God said for real.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: So John was a businessman. He had no training in legal,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: anything legal, anything criminal, just took interest in your case, obviously,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: because of his connection with this woman who used to
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: be part of your family, sort of because of the kids.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: And he read all your papers. He read everything he
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: could on the situation and said, this doesn't make sense.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: I don't think Daniel did it. And then wanted to
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: get involved, right? And he came and saw you. And
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: what was that like to Like.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: What you hear?
• 33:45
  Speaker 7: Tune into USL All Access live every Tuesday at 8 p.m.
• 33:49
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• 33:54
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• 34:02
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• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Meet him for the first time.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did. You forgot one part, though. It's pretty interesting.
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: So he prays to God after he does this, and
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: he's telling God, hey, I want to help him.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Give me a sign.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: And then, you know, while this is going down and stuff,
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: he gets a call from his real estate agent who
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: tells him that this person that he's telling him about,
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: he's saying that John had.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't even remember he had that piece of land, right?
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: So then they're making the deal, and then John finds
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: out that he got this piece of land in 1993, the.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Time that I got arrested. Wow. Had it all of
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: them years, never knew he had it until that moment. Wow.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: And I was like, hey, you know what? This is it.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: And that, when he told me that story, that's what
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: gave me the hope.
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: When he came and told me that, I was like, wow, okay,
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: now I'm starting to, see some type of divine intervention
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: is refreshing.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: So after John gets involved in your case, he starts
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: to bring a lot of awareness to your case. He
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: believes in you so much. He says, I'm going to
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: be with you through this whole thing. He starts to,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, next thing you know, people are, not next thing,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it took a while, but people are walking
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: around with signs trying to get, you know, attention in
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: El Paso for the case. And they want, the goal
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: is to get you a new trial. Isn't that correct?
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's exactly, he would hear a lot of
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: podcasts and stuff, hear a lot of stories, figure out
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: how people got, like he heard about, that's what gave
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: him the idea to put all them signs on one
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: of his trucks. You know, it was, what was that
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: guy's name? He was an exoneree, but it was his
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: dad that put his, like just his story all over
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: his car, his son's car, and would drive that everywhere
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: where he fought for death. So John would get these
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: ideas from all these podcasts, and then just put them
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: to work.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Say, okay, if they work for this person, then let's
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: try it here.
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: And that's what he just, he created a, well, I mean,
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: you've seen, Gateline got into it, and I mean, he
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: just created a, he created.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: A, and he was way over his head. He didn't
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: even know it.
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: He even told me, he's like, I did not realize
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: it was going.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: To be this hard to pay so much to get
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: somebody free that's innocent. Right.
• 36:38
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  Speaker 1: healthy with one skin. So he started making a lot
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: of noise. Dateline got involved. They thought it was an
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: interesting story. Obviously, everyone in town knew who you were
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: because they had followed this murder, right? So you were
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: kind of infamous for a while, but years before, or
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: decades before, and then now they were bringing it to
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: light and questioning the validity of what happened. So I
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: know that he ends up hiring... an attorney named Joe
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Spencer for you. And I, and I loved watching, I
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: did watch the Dateline episode, long episode on your story.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: And I love seeing how Joe has emerged. meeting with
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: John Mimbella and he tells him the whole story. And
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: he says that he has put together, what is it called?
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: A writ, a writ of habeas corpus. Is that what
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: it is? Yeah. And, and this guy, Joe Spencer says, okay,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: this has like a zero to 5% chance of ever working.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Like this is not gonna happen. But after he reads
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: all your documents, he says, wait a minute, I believe
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: in this guy. I think I wanna take this on.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: And he takes the case on and he's able to
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: get in front of the judge, right? How did that
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: feel hearing that news that you are going to at
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: least not get a new trial yet, but at least
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: you are gonna be heard out by a judge?
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: That was exciting. I mean, I couldn't believe what was happening.
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: You know, it was, it was mind blowing. I was, it,
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: it didn't seem real until they actually came and got me.
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: And I'm walking outside of that prison and I'm looking
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: back and I'm seeing we're leaving that place.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: That's when it became like reality.
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: Like I was like, Oh my God, like we finally
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: got a chance, you know, after all you do, we
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: finally got a chance.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Um, it was, And was that the first time you
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: had even left the same jail in over 20 years?
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: I've been transferred to a lot of different prisons throughout
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: the time.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: That was the prison that I was the longest at, though. Okay.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: And while you were in front of the judge, I
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: know that they thought it was going to be a
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: couple days. It ends up taking a couple months, right,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: in front of the judge. Is that what happened, or
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: a couple weeks?
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: A couple years. A couple years.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: A couple of years. Oh God.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: And so while you were doing that, would you come
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: back and forth from the same jail or they put
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: you somewhere else to, to be part of the trial
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: every day?
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: No, I stood in that Pastor County jail that whole time.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, fine. So what was that like seeing how this
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: was playing out in front of the judge? Because clearly
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: you were able to make your case for the first
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: time and Joe Spencer put his all into, into making
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: a new fair, you know, well, it was like you
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: were on trial, right? To see if you could have
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: a new trial, but he put together an entire trial,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: put everyone on the stand, including detective Marquez, who said
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: he didn't remember and all sorts of things. So what
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: was that like to watch this go down?
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: That was pretty hard. And the reason being is because
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: you're bringing up all these old things, right? And I thought,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: you know, oh, sorry.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: No, I can still see.
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: So I thought, you know, after being so long, the
• 42:20
  Speaker 5: detectives are no longer with the El Paso Police Department.
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: They got their pensions, you know. Everything's secure. I thought
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: they would go ahead and come out and say, hey,
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: you know, we did wrong on this.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: And they did it. They were sticking to it. And
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: it was just, oh, man, that was so aggravating for me.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: To watch people in law enforcement hold their ground. When
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Joe Spencer went back and interviewed other random people, he
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: started to see how much evidence he had in your favor.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: For example, so when Armando Lazo and Bobby England were
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: out walking that night, they were with two other guys,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: one of them that both survived. One of them is
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: a guy named Jesse, who you mentioned earlier, right? And
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: he went to Jesse's house. He sat down with him,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: I think with John Mimbella, and they asked him to
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: look at the statement you made. and asked him to
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: read it. And his response, you know, I'm paraphrasing, was
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: that that's actually not how it happened. This wasn't the
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: color of the car. This wasn't the gun. And so there,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: in Joe Spencer's mind, this was now going to be
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: great evidence that this was made up because you weren't there.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: So how could you have done it? And whether or
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: not you were coerced, and that's your statement, you couldn't
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: have been there because that wasn't how it went down, right?
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and not only that.
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: But one of the most important things was when he
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: found out it was Detective Marcus. Detective Marcus was the
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: one who interrogated me. He got white in the face,
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: and he told John, this guy did the same thing
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: to me, and I almost said I did it. Now,
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: you got to imagine, he almost said he did it.
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: The only reason why he did it was because his
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: mom made a phone call before he could make that statement.
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: to stop the interview, you know what I mean? But
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: he's a victim and my kids almost had him confess.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Right. And it's important. Yeah.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: And that is important, too, because everything that your cousin
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: went through, everything you went through and maybe some others
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: like you were talking about all went through the same
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: kind of interrogation from Marquez. And, you know, he was
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: just looking for someone to pin this on. So eventually
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: you guys are done with this whole trial thing or
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: in front of the judge. in the end of 2011
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: correct and you had to wait nine months to get
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: a decision on whether or not you were going to
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: get a new trial am i following all.
• 44:56
  Speaker 7: Don't miss a minute of united soccer league action the
• 45:00
  Speaker 7: usl championship and usl league one are on cbs sports
• 45:04
  Speaker 7: and espn platforms all season long with additional coverage on
• 45:09
  Speaker 7: Sirius XM FC channel 188 and select matches available in
• 45:13
  Speaker 7: Spanish on 2DNA. It's your time to take part in
• 45:17
  Speaker 7: building what's next. Visit uslchampionship.com or uslleague1. com for complete listings.
• 45:25
  Speaker 7: Find your local club and be part of what's next.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 45:30
  Speaker 8: Uh, yeah, I just don't remember the year it was. Um,
• 45:35
  Speaker 8: It had to be a little bit later. Probably when
• 45:39
  Speaker 8: I went into 13.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: But you had to wait about nine months to get
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: a decision. What was that like? And how did you
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: get the phone call? Did you get a visit saying
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: you have been granted a new trial?
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, that part is probably, like I said,
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: those times when you're waiting for the answer and stuff.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Were the most worst moments in your life.
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: Because you're second guessing everything.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, maybe we should have done this. Maybe we should
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: have done that. Oh, maybe this. We did good.
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: It's just, you know, you're just worried about if you
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: did the right thing and you're sweating because I'm like,
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: this is my only chance. And I really have faith
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: in the system. You know, I really don't have faith
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: in the system. But I was seeing the way Madrana
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: was during that whole time And like I said, it
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: was a three year process. So I was seeing who
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: was totally different from the other judge as far as
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: the way he would make the rulings. So I figured
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: I had a, if anything, I had a good chance,
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: you know, cause this is totally different from my first
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: judge where.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: The DA said, Hey, the sky is purple, your honor.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: She agreed with him, you know? Well, yes, the sky
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: is purple. So that was my first judge.
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: So this guy was, you know, he's totally different from that,
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: from that first judge I had. I had faith, but
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: it was still, I mean, it tears you up because
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: you're like, oh, man, it's going to go my way.
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: It's not going to go my way. Then you have
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: your days where you're like, yes, I have faith. Everything's
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: going to go good. And then you have your days
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: where you're like, I'm screwed.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: I'm going to die in prison. You know what I'm saying?
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: And you just want to fall up and cry. But
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: it's a back and forth thing, and it's mine. Your
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: mind is just totally twisted. You can't even think about it.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: And up until you knew about John Mimbella and all
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: of a sudden you had a glimmer of hope, I mean,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: were you pretty hopeless in jail? I mean, at this point,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: all options had been tried and they had been declined.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: You had made all of your appeals, you had made
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: every effort to have this not stick or get a
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: second chance, and you were denied on all of them.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: So at this point, until you met John Mimbella, I
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: would think that you believed your life was pretty much
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: going to play out behind bars. Is that correct?
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I believe that.
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: Like I said, I totally believed I was going to
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: die in there.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: You know, I didn't think there was another hope in
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: the world. Even when John first came and talked to me,
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: I was.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Like, good luck with that. I don't know what.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Was going to happen. So how did you hear the
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: news that you were going to be granted a new trial?
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Who told you?
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, we went in front of the judge. They
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: had a court date. We didn't know until we went
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: to that judge.
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: So then we go to the judge, and then they
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: got everybody there, social, the media there and everything, and
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: then the judge makes his ruling on what he's going
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: to do. You know, but he does his speech before
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: he does that, so the whole time you're, like, biting
• 48:48
  Speaker 5: your nails.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: You know, and then he makes his ruling. You got
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: to remember that ruling was just a recommendation. Mm-hmm.
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: So now we got to go to the high court,
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: the court of criminal appeals.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Okay. And the court of criminal appeals sits nine judges.
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: And they told me, they were like, three of them
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: judges never go for the inmate.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: We got to get majority rule. You can count three
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: out of the box. Then it goes to them. And
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: they're like.
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: Probably one of the most conservative court systems. in Texas
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: or I mean in the United States let's just say
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: and we had to probably wait a year and a
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: half before they made their.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Ruling oh wow so every Wednesday.
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: For a year and a half they make their rulings
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: on the internet you know what cases they ruled on
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: and you just gotta see their names there So every Wednesday,
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: I'll call my mom and I would ask her, is
• 49:42
  Speaker 5: my name on the list?
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: And she'd be like, no, you're not on the list
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: this week. And I'd be like, ugh. To this day,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: I hate Wednesdays. I can't stand them.
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: They make my stomach turn. I did this for a
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: whole year and a half. You're just waiting week by
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: week by week. And every Wednesday, they're telling me for
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: a year and a half, you're not on the list.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: You're not on the list.
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: So you're kind of happy that you're not out the
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: game yet. And you're like, oh, my God, how long
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: is it going to take?
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: And is it going to work? Right.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: So what day did you call your mom and find
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: out you were on the list?
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: On Wednesdays? Yeah.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: And what happened that day? So you finally called her
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: and she said, yeah.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: She's screaming on the phone. I couldn't understand what she
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: was saying. And I was like, what's going on? What's
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: going on? And she said, you won. You won. They
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: granted it. They granted it. You won. And then I
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: couldn't understand.
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: So she passed the phone. And then that's when they
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: were telling me that I had won. And then I
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: was like, I definitely wanted to pass out there. I
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: was like, I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: my God. So there's no more conviction and we're starting
• 50:47
  Speaker 5: all over again. And then, you know, and then a
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: bit later, my.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Lawyers came to me and then they, they gave me
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: the news as well.
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: And then now we were going to have, uh, to
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: get the bond hearing.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Right. So it was right before Christmas.
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: We're like, okay, you're going to be your first Christmas
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: out because John always said, I'll have you out by Christmas.
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: So he said, I just didn't tell you which one.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's funny. So did you make it out by Christmas? No.
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: The DA found out about that and he made an
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: emergency holiday or something and they had to postpone it to.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: The following year. So then I got out on January 14, 2014. Okay,
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: so 2014, you have been in prison for how many
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: years at that point? Like about 20. 20 years in prison,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: and you are released from prison on bond awaiting a
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: new trial, right? Mm-hmm.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: What was that like coming out of prison that day?
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: You went to your parents' house? What happened?
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a crazy day. It was wild.
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: So we get the, you got to remember, so we
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: go to the bond hearing, right? They're telling me like,
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: the DA's showing us all these bonds and they're like
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: million dollar bonds, $ 1.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: 5 million bond. And I'm like, there is no freaking
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: way we're going to get this.
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: So then my lawyer, Joe Spencer, was like, hey, I
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: represent half these clients that he has on his board.
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: And I'm going to tell you why this guy's bond is.
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: And we just go down. So finally they gave us
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: a bond that we can get. So that's a miracle.
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: And then the judge says, okay, boom, I'm giving him
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: this bond and I want him out within 30 minutes
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: when he pays it.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: So they got me out of there within 30 minutes.
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: So they kind of rushed me out of there. And
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: then once I hit the, like the, once I got
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: out of the building, I would just, it was crazy.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: I was, I was just assaulted by all these different smells.
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: Like I could smell the street pavement. I could smell
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: all this different stuff. You never, you know, all I
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: smell in jail and in prison is just, you know,
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: it smells like a, you know, kind of like an infirmary.
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: You know, it's, it's stale. The air's stale. You know,
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: it's all stale. Now we're getting, I'm smelling the streets. I'm,
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: you know, I'm hearing, I heard the train. I haven't
• 53:22
  Speaker 5: known all, I mean, years I heard the train, you know,
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: it's just, it was, Crazy just seeing how everything was.
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: And so it was just in the process, it still
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: didn't come to me. And I was still doing like
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: we went to the steakhouse to go and eat.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: When I'm walking in there, I stop when we get
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: to the doors and then they're walking around and look
• 53:44
  Speaker 5: at me like, what are you doing?
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm waiting for the buzzer. And they're like,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: what buzzer? You just walk in.
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: And then I realized, and then I feel embarrassed because
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: we got Dateline and everybody there, you know, recording.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: This.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, how funny. But you were so used to this. Yeah.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 54:01
  Speaker 5: Like even when it came to the silverware, like I
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: seen they had knives and I was like, oh my God,
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: I can't believe it.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Trust us with knives.
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: And unconsciously, I'm putting it in the sleeve of my
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: coat jacket. And Amanda grabbed my hand and she's like,
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: you don't got to do that no more. And then, like,
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: I realized what I was doing, but I just did
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: it without thinking, you know?
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, man. And then, like I said,
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's just so many moments like that.
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: It's just kind of hard to realize that you're not
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: in that environment no more.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Out of curiosity, how many hours were you confined to
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: a cell on a daily basis?
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Eight.
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: All depend on what time of year it was, you know.
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: But for the most part, I mean, we get out
• 54:44
  Speaker 5: in prison, you have, depending where you're at, I was always.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: On the close custody side and stuff.
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: So we didn't have much movement there. You're pretty much
• 54:54
  Speaker 5: in a cell. We probably get about two hours of
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: rec time. And then It's 12 hours to eight hours
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: of work.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, so you.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: Depending on what year it was.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: What were you working as when you were there?
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: We were in what they call the hoe squad, which
• 55:16
  Speaker 5: is we were the ones, or they call it the
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: chain gang.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: We're out there doing all the farming and stuff. Oh, wow.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Picking cotton.
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: So you were outside, though.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And we're out there picking cotton.
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: And I remember they used to tell me, that's why
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: I laugh a lot when people, you know, they're talking about,
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: you know, slavery and stuff.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I laugh. I'm like, have you guys
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: ever been picking cotton for free? Because I know I have.
• 55:43
  Speaker 8: Oh, wow.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I know how that feels like. Yeah.
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: You got a guy with a gun there telling you
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: he better not see no green on there or you're.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Going to get shot. Wow. Wow.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, Daniel.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: So let's go back to nicer story. So you're out
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: of prison. You now are free on bond and you're
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: awaiting your next trial, which it seems like takes quite
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: a while. Like you guys don't really know when chargers
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: are going to be filed, if maybe they won't be
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: filed or what will happen. And in the meantime, tell
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: me a story really quickly about how you met Amanda,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: because a woman starts to write you in prison, right?
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: And you develop a relationship with her. And This becomes
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: your love, right? And you have some children with her
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: when you get out. Tell me about that relationship really quick.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: So when Amanda first wrote, I was going to go
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: to a court that morning.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: And so I was praying to God.
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: And I told God, you know, just give me some
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: type of, just help me with faith. You know, I'm
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: not going to ask you for a sign.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Just give me faith. Mm-hmm.
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: You know, I'm going to need faith to go through
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: what we're going to go through right now. And then
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: the officer.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Comes, and he's like, here.
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: About 15 minutes after I prayed, he gave me a letter,
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: and it just says faith on it.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: Wow. Because Amanda's name was Amanda Faith. Oh, my goodness.
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: So I was like, oh, wow, that's crazy. So I
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: read it, and then, you know, she sent, and I
• 57:13
  Speaker 5: like it. So then, you know, so I write back,
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: and I told her about that. I'm like, I'm praying
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: for faith, and then I get a letter, and you
• 57:18
  Speaker 5: don't put nothing but.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: Faith on it. Oh, my God. I love that. And
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: then so we just started riding back and forth and stuff.
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: And then there was a time that my parents and
• 57:30
  Speaker 5: everybody were leaving out of town to go watch a
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: football game. So I needed somebody to visit me that weekend.
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: And I asked her if she would come. And she said, yeah.
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: And then that's the first time we've seen each other.
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: And then from there, it just kind of built up.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 57:46
  Speaker 5: And then when I got out, we got together and
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: then we ended up having, I helped her raise her
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: stepdaughter Kayla.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: And then we had two kids together. Wow.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Ever since my daughter started back at school, our schedules
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: have been crazy. I try to make it a priority
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: to cook us a great dinner, but sometimes I fall short.
• 58:02
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• 58:05
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• 58:10
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• 58:12
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• 58:15
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• 58:18
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• 58:22
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• 58:31
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• 58:34
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• 58:38
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• 58:44
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• 59:11
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• 59:23
  Speaker 1: It's America's number one meal kit. Amazing. So that must've
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: been really nice to know she was waiting for you
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: when you came out. and you had someone to be with.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's probably half the battle, knowing, you know,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: if you'll find someone who can understand your past, understand
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: that you might have to go back if you have
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: another trial and you're found guilty. So I think she
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: was a very, you know, commendable, brave of her, and
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: amazing that she loved you the way she did when
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: you needed her to, right?
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, man.
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: I mean, Amanda, I mean, she was, like I said,
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: I mean, when we went through that process, that trial,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: I mean, it, that, that took a lot of us.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: It took, it took, it took a lot out of us,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: I should say. And, um, you know, she held it down,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: you know, when I was weak at that time, you know? Yeah.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: So now you're, you're talking about your third trial, right?
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: On my third trial, you know, so she was, God said,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: and she was a blessing. Like I said, she was,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: unfortunately we just, you know, we just, trial just.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Tore us apart too. Hmm. Right.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: So you're no longer together, right?
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we're no longer together because going through that trauma,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 5: I mean, it was just, oh, my God.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: And I was like at my weakest at that point, man.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: I was just like burnt out. I was just out
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 5: of there. And she held it up, man. I mean, Amanda,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 5: she held it up for us. And I'll never forget that.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: And I always told her, I said, don't ever forget,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 5: you know, you held it up when I was weak,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: you know. When I couldn't walk, he held the cross
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 5: for a moment.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. And you guys still co-parent these
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: two kids. So I'm hoping you have a good relationship
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: with her still.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She drops off the.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: Kids in the morning and then she'll pick them up.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: And then I'll take them to school. I'll pick them
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: up from school and then they'll stay here.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: And then when she comes.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: Out of work, she'll come pick them up from my
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 5: house or take them to her house, depending on if.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: I'm at my house. Okay, good.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: So just briefly talk about how many years was it
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: before you got out of prison and then you went
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: back to trial? What, how many years were you out, um, free?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was four years.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: Four years.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 5: I got out in 2014 and I went to trial 2018.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: So about four and a half because it was.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: At the end. Okay.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: And, and also somewhere in there, I mean, it must've
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: been really hard to get through the day, not knowing
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: if you were going to find out if they were
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: pressing charges again or what was going to happen. I mean,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: your life must've been in limbo during those four years, right?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, no, no. We knew right away they were
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: going to press charges. They did. Everybody had to press charges.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: It just took four years to take a trial.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: So during that whole time, I knew we were going
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: to trial.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: I was hoping we weren't going to go to trial,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: but I was already anticipating that reward.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? You hope for the best
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: or for the worst. Right.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: So now talk about the Alford plea. The prosecutors did
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: come to you. I don't want to get this wrong,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: but I just want to sort of give the overview
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: of They came to you with a plea deal, which
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: you ended up deciding to decline. And that is called
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: an Alfred deal, right? An Alfred plea?
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: An Alfred plea.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Am I getting that right?
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: So an Alfred plea is a crazy plea bargain. It's
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 5: maintaining your innocence, but still pleading guilty to the charge.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: You maintain that you're innocent, but you.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 5: Say, but I feel like the state has enough.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Evidence, you know, to win a trial. So I'll plead guilty. Right.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: But I'm innocent. That's an offer plea. And that's what they, uh, and, uh,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: that's what they came to me with. So that usually
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 5: they come with, uh, like stipulations and stuff.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Right. So the upside of that is that you would
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: have been able to maintain your freedom, but the downside
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: is that you would have been a convicted felon, correct?
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 8: Mm-hmm.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: And for you, I know you have said in the past, like,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: you know, give me freedom or give me death, right?
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Like this was too much. You really wanted your freedom.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: You wanted to say you were not a convicted felon.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: You decided to roll the dice and you declined that
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: plea deal and you decided to go to trial, right?
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, actually, I wanted, I.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 5: Was going to sign that plea deal, but.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Amanda stopped me. Wow. The lawyer told me about it.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 5: And then I was like, what's the situation?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: And he's like, well, we've got no situations. It's basically
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: time served, John. And I'm like, really? So it's over with.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah. So I'm like, okay, yeah, let's
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: do this then. Because you got to remember, it's just not, it's,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: I know like when, how can I put it? I'm
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: not the same person no more that I was in prison.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: I know if I go back, they're gonna see that.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: I can be that person no more.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: You know, in prison, I was a cold-blooded. You know,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: I was a piece of shit in there, basically. You know,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 5: I didn't think I was gonna go home. I didn't
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: have no faith in nothing. You know, I really did
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 5: not have... You know, I was in a black spot,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: in a real dark, dark spot, you know? And maybe
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 5: lost company. So people are seeing it a different way
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: in there. You know, they see me as very, you know,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: cold and stuff. And I know I couldn't beat that
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 5: person going back.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: I had kids. I never experienced life as an adult.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: And now I'm experiencing life as an adult. I'm pain-billed.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: I'm doing all this.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 5: And once Chanito was born, my whole life just flipped
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 5: upside down.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: And I don't mean that in a bad way. I
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: mean it in a good way. I knew I couldn't
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: teach him.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: How to grow up thinking the way I think.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: So I had to empty out the cup.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: And now you have a reason to stay out of
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: jail and to do well and to not go back, right?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Because you've found love. You've found unconditional love with your children.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Your parents have stood by you. You have someone like
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: John Mimbella who you don't want to let down. I mean,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: you have all these people that are rooting for you.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: Whereas as a 16-year-old kid, you didn't know what your
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: life could hold. So I think it's a much different
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: mindset now as well.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it was totally different.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 5: And that's why I didn't want to lose it. But
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 5: she told us to give us two days.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: So I told her, I was like, you are crazy.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you didn't do 20 years in prison. I didn't.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do another day in there. No,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: hell no. But I said, okay, let's do it.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 5: And then we called Jason Baldwin from West Memphis 3.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 5: And he came down and, like I said, it was
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 5: days of hell and going back.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: And forth and do it, don't do it, you know?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 5: And finally, we decided not to do it.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: And Jason Baldwin, just to clarify, from the West Memphis Three,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: took the Alfred plea, right? And so that was a
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: good comparison to know what it's like to live life
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: taking it as opposed to not taking it. So he
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: helped you make that decision to decline it?
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because at first you'd be like, Take it because
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 5: you got kids, bro.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 7: Don't miss the USL Championship Final on CBS, November 21st
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 7: at noon Eastern. Will the Pittsburgh Riverhounds retain their crown
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 7: or will new title winners emerge? Don't miss the conclusion
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 7: to the 2026 season, Saturday, November 21st, noon Eastern on CBS.