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BPS 312: How to Always Make Money with Independent Film Godfather Roger Corman · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three twelve. Don't let small minds convince you that
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Enjoy today's episode with guest host Jason Buff Thanks for joining us here today.
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We have a super guest on today. We're talking with one of my heroes,
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mister Roger Corman. Now just between us, I was scared as hell
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to just give Roger Corman a call. I was sitting in my office and
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I got it. Very nice. Secretary told me a time to call in,
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and it's kind of like, all of a sudden, I was on
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the phone with one of my heroes. Roger Corman really is someone who all
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indie filmmakers should know about and should definitely understand his contribution to the world of
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independent film. He's also responsible for giving the first break to a lot of
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people that my generation considers the filmmakers that really influenced them, like Scorsese,
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Francis Ford, Coppola, Jonathan Demi, Joe Dante, and Ron Howard.
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So what I want to do is listen to some of them talk about how
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Roger Corman influenced their filmmaking. The first interview I want to go to is
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with Jonathan Demi, who said this about Roger Corman in the documentary Roger Corman
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Hollywood's Wild Angel in nineteen seventy eight documentary. Well, in any film that
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I've ever worked on with Roger, there three main elements that he's looking for.
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One is humor, which he considers tremendously important. Another is action,
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which he considers very important, and another is sex, which he considers important
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but not quite as important as the other two elements, I don't think.
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But it's funny the way these things pop up, because, for example,
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in my script for Caged, hand your script in, and what Roger does
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is sometimes he'll give the notes right on the script and hand it back to
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you. So you get the script back and you get little little marginal references
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like breast nudity possible here, question mark, which yes, you realize,
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yes it is possible here. And you don't want to get too idealistic because
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actually you don't have negative feelings about nudity anyway, So you go, yes,
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Roger, indeed it is. And that's the bargain you make with Roger
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if you buy his it's never articulated, I don't think, But if you
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buy his concept that pictures that audience is like contain these three major elements action,
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humor, and sex, and you really buy it, and you're kind
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of commit to getting as much of that stuff as possible in there. And
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if you will also want to make a good picture and tell a good story,
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then the best of both worlds happens. He gets a movie that contains
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these things, and he's confident of releasing it, and you get a chance
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to make a picture very much the way you want to make it. I
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know that you've worked with You gave so many people their start, so many
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great talents to start. Francis Ford Coppola worked with you before he really worked
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with anyone else. Isn't that true? Yes? Right? As a matter
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of fact, he was a soundman, the second assistant director, and a
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shot second unit all on one picture. Really very versatile. Okay, And
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did you know then this kid's going places? Actually I knew he was good.
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I had no idea that he was going to go to the heights.
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He did, okay, Ron Howard. I think also Howard's first correcting jobs
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with you is right. He started with us as an actor and the picture
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was called Eat My Dust Car to Film. It was a big success,
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and he came into the office and he said, I know you want to
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do a sequel. Whether a star plays a role in a successful film,
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he always asked for more money. I will star in the next picture.
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No more money, and I will do an additional job. And I said
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what is that? And he said, I'll direct. And I said,
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Ron, you will always looked like a director to me. You influenced the
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way film trailers are made. I think many people, especially young people,
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think that film trailers have always been similar. But no, you really changed
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the way they were made with a certain innovation. What is it you did
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well. It was Joe Dante, who went on to become a very well
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known successful director, who started cutting trailers for us. And he was cutting
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one trailer and I looked at it and I said, Joe, is this
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a fairly dull trailer. What can you do to jazz it up? He
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said, come back this afternoon. I went back this afternoon and there was
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the same dull trailer. In the middle was an exploding helicopter. It made
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the trailer. I mean ask your question, was there an exploding helicopter in
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the film? There is no law that says everything in the trailer that's fantastic
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the balls Man, that was incredible. I mean, what isn't what this
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show would be jazzed up by a helicopter crash occasionally, you know, that's
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the kind of thing that would help a talk show. They should do it
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everywhere. We could give you the stock footage. Would you charge me for
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it? Very little? You've got great titles, great titles for your films.
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One of my favorites, Attack of Crab Monsters and and there's the of
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course the title for it as so many amazing titles over there. Did you
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come up with the title first and then decide to shoot the film? How
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does it work? Sometimes? For instance, Grand Theft Auto, which was
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Run Howard's first film as a as a director, the title came first.
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But if oh, the film he did before Eat My Dust, I've forgotten
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the title. We were shooting a car chase somewhere out in the San Fernando
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Valley and dust was flying all over the place, and the director who said
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we had to call its picture eat My Dust, I said, we will,
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and he said I'm joking. I said, I'm not joking. That's
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a great title. So the title, now, of course, that was
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Conan O'Brien. And now here's Ron Howard talking about working with Roger Cormick.
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Conversations that were really significant during the course of making Grand Theft Auto. The
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first was he sat me down and said, Ron, I'll come visit you
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on the first day of filming. And if you're productive, and you know
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you're making around twenty setups a day and you're making your days, you you
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won't see much at meaning in all candor, if you're not achieving those those
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kind of results, you're going to see one hell of a lot of me.
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That was his little warning. I had a great moment on the Paramount
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Lot. I was finishing up the season of that season of Happy Days walking
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Along and as soon as Hiatus came in March, I was gonna go direct
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Grand Theft Auto. And Jonathan Demi called me from out out the window at
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the second second story office. He was getting ready to do Citizen Band.
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I think um and uh uh, and of course I knew him as a
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Roger Corman veteran. And he came bounding down the stairs and he said,
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I heard you're going to direct a picture for Roger. Come upstairs. And
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I went upstairs and he talked to me for about twenty minutes. He gave
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me these sheets that he would use to sort of plan out the shot lists
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and in the day, and gave me great advice. Here's this young guy
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saying, make sure you get plenty of sleep, you know, this hipster
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guy. And I and I and uh, you know and and and uh
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and he basically said, you know, um, Roger will let you creatively
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do whatever you want to do. That's the fantastic thing about working for Roger.
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Uh and uh but uh uh, you know, you just have to
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make sure that you're efficient and here's how you do it, and remember to
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think ahead and just lots of good fundamentals, but also encouraging me to explore
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and be creative and really, you know, take advantage of this this opportunity
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that Roger was was was given me. I finally carried my end of a
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great tradition and cast Roger and a Paul thirteen He had a very nice scene
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playing a senator with Tom Hanks, and it was a really wonderful day to
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reconnect with Roger, have him come. We had you know, it was
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a big day with green screen and you know it was we were doing visual
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effect shots and it was, you know, just a plus Hollywood filmmaking.
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And he just smirked and said, well, we could do this for a
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hell of a lot less, uh, And you know he could, all
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right, And now my interview with Roger Corman. I was watching the documentary
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Corman's World recently and the thing that I thought was very interesting to see was
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that you're still going down and being on the set. Do you find the
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same excitement being on a set these days? It's always exciting to be on
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the set. I'd probably not as excited as earlier, but we'll be right
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back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. The
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stimulation is still there after you've done it. I've made around three hundred films.
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There's a certain routine, but there's something always a little bit new.
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Is how things changed. I mean now that you are working in the digital
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world and video on demand and the sci Fi channel has your system changed,
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and the way that you go about distribution. It's changed a little bit.
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When you mentioned distribution, it's changed for the better end production, and its
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changed at least for those us working in medium budget and lower budget films.
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It's changed for the worst end distribution. In production, production is easier the
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new digital cameras, sound equipment, the lighting equipment, everything is lighter,
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more portable, easier to use, so you can shoot more unnatural locations and
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you can shoot faster, more efficiently. Self production is better today. The
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conditions of production, the conditions of distribution, however, are not good for
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the independence. The major studios today, with their one hundred million dollars and
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two hundred million dollars budgets in their thirty forty fifty million dollar marketing campaigns,
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have dominated theatrical to such an extent that very few medium or low budget independent
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pictures get a theatrical distribution. Primarily were on DVD, streaming, cable,
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some broadcast television, and only occasionally in theaters today. Is there a certain
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period of time that you look back on in your career and kind of reminisce
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about as being the glory days of filmmaking? Probably for me the sixties and
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seventies. The sixties was when I was having most fun and most success as
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a director. I started directing it around fifty eight or something like that.
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First a couple of years you sort of learn what you're doing, and then
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things started to move forward me in the sixties and in the seventies I started
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my own production and distribution company, and I moved from directing to producing and
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distributing, and that was a whole new world as well. So for that
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about a twenty year period, I was probably having the most fun and the
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most success. Things still work out. I'm still producings, still distributing,
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but I make fewer films today, and just that I made fewer films,
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they get a limited distribution and I'll continue for a few more years. You
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started out working as a writing notes on screenplays, right, and you eventually
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did some notes for the gun Gay Right. Actually, I started a graduator
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from Stanford with a degree in engineering, and I was a failure of the
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Stanford engineering class. I got the worst job of anybody. I got a
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job as a messenger at Fox or thirty two dollars and fifty cents a week,
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and I rode the bike around the studio delivering messages. And then I
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worked fairly hard, did some extra work and became a reader in the story
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department, and that was where I got a little bit of minor recognition for
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my work on the Gunfighter. I didn't like various things of going on,
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so I had some college time left on the GI bill, so I went
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to Europe, went to Oxford briefly, and then came back and became a
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literary agent and sold my own script under an assumed name, and I took
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the money from that and started my production company. How did you did you
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know how it was all going to work? And were you going to sell
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the film or did you just kind of go into it like the leap of
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faith? It was a total leap of faith. I think back, and
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I wonder how I had the nerve to do it well. I think that
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you know, your career has shown that you've taken a lot of leaps of
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faith like that. And now did you when you first started, did you
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have the idea that you could keep a career going as long as you were
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making films at a low enough price that you could always sell them. It
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wasn't quite that easy. I financed my films with my own money, and
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since I don't have that much money, I can't make a giant film.
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So the budget level was more or less predetermined, and I don't really think
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or ever thought of it as how long can I keep going? I just
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felt that everything is going well, I'll continue making films. So there was
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a little bit of a sort of a long term plan, but to a
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large extent, it was day to day. I'm going to make this film,
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I'm shooting this film, I'm planning the next film, and so forth.
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What did you learn from making films that people really wanted to see?
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You obviously tapped into something in the marketplace that was selling tickets and got people
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coming in and got people excited. Are there any sort of things that are
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specific to your films that really kind of you developed and learned how to sell
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a film? Well? Early on, I appeal to a teenage audience.
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I was very much aware that the audience was a young audience. In the
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major studios were casting their great stars, which meant to a large extent of
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fifty year old leading man making love to a forty year old leading lady and
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the average age of the audience was eighteen, So I felt, and I
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told me understood why they did it. Their stars or the equivalent of brands.
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The stars were famous and could sell tickets. But I felt if I
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went with young people, I could peel directly to a young audience. And
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I worked in genres, not always, but generally I was doing action pictures,
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horror films, science fiction films, sometimes deliberately straight teenage films, and
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so forth. Were there any other movies like genre films? They were fairly
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non mainstream back in those days. I mean, nowadays it seems like horror
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movies are very mainstream, and especially science fiction and everything, especially after Star
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Wars and all those sorts of movies. But back in those days, was
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it something that was more of like a drive in movie theater or more like
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B movies. Yes, the drive ins were very important. They weren't quite
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as important as people think they were. Our main money still came from what
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we called the hardtopsy enclosed theaters, but drive ins were of major sorts of
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income, and the drive in audience was even younger than the hardtop audience.
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Although ivan did attract some families on the basis that a young family with children
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who couldn't afford a babysitter or something could just go to the drive in,
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put the children in the back seat, watch the picture, and the children
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would maybe just go to sleep. So it was an inexpensive night out for
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them. It still was primarily a young audience. You think we've missed something
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now that we don't have theaters and we don't like go out and see movies
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now that everybody's watching movies on iPads and on TV. Yes, I think
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there's something to be said for seeing a picture, particularly a comedy, with
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an audience. You pick up the vibes, as it were, unconsciously from
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the audience. It becomes a communal or a shared experience. I was watching
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the nineteen seventy eight documentary called Corman Hollywood's Wild Angel. You can actually it's
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actually on YouTube, and it was probably one of the most I've learned so
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much in two hours of just watching that. It's incredible, and there's a
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great scene where they're talking with Jonathan Demi and he's talking about the advice that
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you gave him as a filmmaker, and I thought it was really interesting and
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I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. And he said that the
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three most important elements in a film were humor, action, and sex,
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and sex was last, but it was still important. Do you still feel
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like I think, I think that I would put in the narrative storyline,
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I should have said that I was probably I was probably understood. What are
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yours? Some of your favorite movies that you have seen lately? You know
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more contemporary people. Yes, As a matter of fact, possibly the most
18:40
interesting film I saw last year was a film that for three quarters of the
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way through I thought was one of the most brilliant films I had ever seen,
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and then it started to fall at the end and it was never recognized
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in any way. I think special effects Interstellar, which I thought was really
19:03
a brilliant of film, particularly as I say, my degree was in engineering,
19:07
that I had a minor in physics, and maybe it was unique to
19:11
me. I try to stay up with physics, and it was really very
19:15
accurate from all the concepts of physics today. The last quarter or so it
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started to get a little questionable, didn't totally hold up. But I think
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for the reason that, as I say, it was so brilliant so far
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through and then still was I still think of it as possibly the best picture
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of the year, but nobody else seems to agree with me, or a
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few people agree with me. One of the things that I had heard that
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you mentioned was that after the film The Intruder, you had decided that you
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didn't want to be as which is a brilliant film. But I actually just
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though it for the first time a couple of days ago. We'll be right
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back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show,
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that you had decided to try and not have a movie that was commercial,
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but have a movie within that movie that actually had a message and was a
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good movie within a movie that was sellable. Yes, I felt that I
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had become too serious with The Intruder. It got a lot of critical acclaim
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when a couple of minor film festivals that was commercially not successful, and I
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felt I was too serious. I was lecturing the audience, and I felt
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what I would do would be to make a film an entertainment with as we
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say, a method acting a text and the subtext. A text is the
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entertainment of the film, and the subtext would be whatever was important to me
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or whatever I wanted to say, but it would be always be secondary to
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the text as a film. Now, were you one of the first people
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to take the camera off the tripad and go out into the streets and kind
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of shoot off of sets. Was that something that you felt was you know,
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would bring more realism to your film, say in the sixties, Yes,
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I was one of the first. I wouldn't say I was the first.
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S I know a number of people were doing it before me, but
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I was one of the first to do it, and I liked that concept
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very much. I'd been doing my Edgar Allen Poe pictures was Vincent Price,
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and those were deliberately studio bound. I wanted to have total control of everything
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within a studio, leaving nothing to chance, and I wanted to and when
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I thought I had done enough of those films, I wanted to go completely
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away from that, go into the streets and shoot the world around me as
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I interpreted it during the sixties, which of course was a very volatile a
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decade. You mentioned working with Vincent Price and the post films. Can you
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talk a little bit about horror and you're feeling about horror movies? Well,
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horror is very complex. It's exceedingly complex. You can get horror very easily
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by cutting off somebody's arm or something like that. I'm not talking about that
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kind of horror. I'm talking about horror as a psychological concept, and I
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think the roots go so deep into a person's individual experience, into the whole
22:33
experience of humanity, that it's a fascinating genre in which to work. You
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were distributing a lot of films from foreign filmmakers. I was wondering if you
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had any favorite filmmakers from that, you know, like Krosawa or Bergman.
22:49
What's your favorite films were from that kind of well of people. I would
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pick a few some of the filmmakers Felini, Bergman, a number of others.
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The first one I had was Cries and Whispers from Bergman, which was
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I thought a brilliant film. Let me see Kurosawa's Derza Huzla, which is
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an unusual film for him to which one Academy Award Best Foreign Film Fellini's Picture
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I've forgotten the title of it, but I had a film from Fellini that
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also won the Academy. We won I think in a certain numbers six or
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seven years, we've won more Foreign Academy Awards than everybody else combined. Now,
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were you able to meet with those directors, did you, you know,
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have any relationship with them, and did you learn things from them?
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Yes, I met I met several of them, talked with several of them.
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Felini said you should get out of distributing and go back to directing.
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I remember that, he said, why did you ever leave you? You've
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obviously had a great influence on a lot of the people that my generation considers
24:07
the best filmmakers of you know, the seventies and the people who really influenced
24:11
us moving into the eighties. Now, when I when I watch a movie
24:15
by you know, Martin Scorsese or Francis Ford Coppola, do you when you
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watch movies that they make, do you see your influence in what they make?
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I mean, for example, camera movement, and you know, keeping
24:26
things going a little bit. But basically they are their own people. They
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were good before they had met me. They had the talent. I may
24:37
have taught them a few things, but basically they're brilliant filmmakers. They would
24:42
have been brilliant filmmakers if they'd never met me. What do all these people
24:45
have in common that the great filmmakers the James Cameron's and all these guys that
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you work with, What is there's something that you saw in them that just
24:53
made them great. Well, I've been asked that question before, and I
24:56
would say there are three things why every one of them was intelligent. I've
25:03
never met a successful writer, producer or director who's been successful over a long
25:10
period of time who wasn't intelligent. The second was the ability to work.
25:15
Making films to a certain extent is glamorous and exciting, but also it is
25:22
very very hard work. Those two things you can kind of figure out.
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The third is creativity. They are all creative, and that you only learned
25:36
about a person by working with them. I also watched Death Rays two thousand
25:41
and I was wondering if you when you watch the Hunger Games you reaction to
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that. I definitely had that reaction both in Death Rays and its follow up
25:51
picture, death Sport. Death Sport. The number of things went wrong.
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It's not a good picture, but the thoughts in it and a Death Ray
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the ol M was pretty good picture. One some poll was the greatest b
26:03
picture of all time. I think, without question some of the thoughts and
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death Race and death Sport are in The Hunger Games and some other things.
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On the other hand, as far as I know, death Race and death
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Sport were totally original. But if I say that, there's gonna be somebody
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who would say you're forgetting the German expression in this film of nineteen nineteen that
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had the same concept, So you can never say you were really the first.
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And it's very possible that I think whoever wrote The Hunger Games had never
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seen a death Sport or death Race. They probably thought they were doing something
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totally original as well. Well. It also reminded me a lot of Mad
26:48
Max and actually more like Mad Max too, you know, did you ever
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see that connection? Yes, it was the actually that in that case it's
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in Australia direct. He told me he had seen he had seen Death Rays.
27:03
George Miller, Yeah, yes, Joe, yes, and he said
27:06
he had seen Death Rays and he said he was inspired by but he didn't
27:10
copy. He got a general idea of a genre and did two brilliant original
27:17
films. Right yeah, I mean, well, I mean the thing that
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that you feel when you watch that is just the danger. You know,
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you feel the speed and you feel like I mean, that's one of the
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things that films I think have lost a lot nowadays. Is just the actual
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you know, you're doing everything in camera. There's not really any visual effects.
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I mean there might be. There was like a Matt painting I remember,
27:38
but other than that, I mean, everything is real and not like
27:41
digital effects. So you can when I watch movies like that, it's a
27:45
lot realer than watching, you know, some of these movies that are like
27:48
the superhero movies, where you know that they can do it all in a
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computer. Yes, I think the audience unconsciously knows that they can sense if
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to a certain extent, the stunts that can be done today are far superior
28:03
to what we were doing in camera. What you can do with the computer
28:07
are just light years ahead. Yet at the same time, the audience almost
28:11
senses they're too good. They know this can't really be now. I wanted
28:17
to talk for just a second about if you could give a little bit of
28:21
a lot of people to listen to this or first time filmmakers and people that
28:22
are trying out there trying to make, you know, their first independent films.
28:26
Can you talk a little bit about what people can do to have success
28:30
in the film industry and make a film that's, like you said, a
28:34
movie that is good, but also a film that will sell and that can
28:38
keep them going well. As William Goldman once said, nobody knows anything.
28:45
He's partially true, but I would say this, a lot of people have
28:48
a general idea. You don't know, but you have a general idea.
28:52
So I could see a few things, and even before I say, I
28:56
will know that, somebody will go up and do self totally opposite from what
29:02
I say you should do and have a giant success to do it brilliantly.
29:06
So it really depends upon the ability of a filmmaker. But probably to not
29:11
get into a deep, long discussion, the one thing that I would say
29:15
is most important is preparation, particularly if you have a short schedule or a
29:22
small budget. You want to do as much of your thinking as you possibly
29:26
can before you ever appear on the set. You want to have your story
29:33
worked out. You want to have talked with your actors, has worked out
29:40
the basic red line, as Stanislovsky said of the actor's performance. You want
29:47
to have your own shots sketched out. Knowing, however, you will never
29:52
follow your plan exactly. Something that will happens that causes you to change will
29:59
be back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
30:07
Sometimes it was the better, sometimes you'll get a better idea. But
30:11
I put heavy, heavy emphasis on preproduction planning. Is that how you were
30:17
able to do Little Shop of Horrors and two days? Yes, we rehearsed
30:21
three days. What happened? A studio had these sets. We just shot
30:26
on sets that were there. That's the reason I made the picture, and
30:30
I knew that if the screen actors guild at that time, I think it's
30:33
still this way. Hiring an actor for five days for a week is not
30:38
much more expensive than hiring amount of it. It's about as expensive it was
30:44
to hire an actor for a week as for three days on a daily rate.
30:48
So I hired all the actors for a week. We rehearsed three days,
30:52
and then win any shot for two days, having worked everything out in
30:56
the first three. I actually I have to ask you this now. I
31:00
know that you you're a fan of Stanley Kubrick, right, Yes, I
31:03
was wondering how you did you feel about the shining when you saw that?
31:06
And did you talk to Jack Nicholson about that? After I did? I
31:10
thought the shot. I think que because one of the great great directors.
31:15
And I think The Shining is one of his best films. I'm not sort
31:18
it's his best film, but it's one of his best films. So I
31:22
have total admiration for Stanley and for that picture. And Jack was brilliant in
31:26
I do have one story that Jack toldby When we were working, people used
31:32
to say, I printed the first take I saw him did, but I
31:34
printed jen b the second or third take or something like that. Stanley is
31:41
famous for shooting and shooting and shooting. He ran over a hundred takes on
31:48
one shot with Jack, and Jack as a good guy, he stood there
31:52
and he went until Stanley printed, you know, one hundred and twelveth or
31:56
one hundred and thirteenth take, And when he was finished, he went over
31:59
this Stanley and said, Stanley, I'm with you all the way, but
32:02
you have to know I generally peak around the seventieth or eightieth take. Did
32:12
you ever have a chance to meet Stanley Cooper? I met him once,
32:15
just talk to him briefly. Early in his career. He had done his
32:19
first film was a crime story built around a race track, and it was
32:27
a medium, low budget film, and I remember It was after he had
32:31
done that and I was just talking to was the I said, this is
32:34
one of the best, if not the best, first films I've ever seen,
32:37
And it was clear from there that he was going to have a brilliant
32:42
career. Was that The Killers? Yes, that's what I'd forgotten, right,
32:45
I had a brilliant ending too, with the suitcase and the money flying
32:49
out of it and everything. Yes. I always in my interviews with two
32:52
questions. One is do you have a resource like a book or something that's
32:58
been very influential to your life, or something that you can recommend the filmmakers.
33:02
Well, I'll give you an answer that doesn't apply exactly. The most
33:07
influential book to me was when I was in college studying math, and I
33:13
studied calculus. The whole concept of a calculus, which is to a certain
33:20
extent, could be described as some mathematics of movement. The problems of calculus
33:24
I want to get I won't get it. In all that calculus, the
33:30
problem and the solving of the problem, I thought was so brilliant and such
33:35
an example of what the creative mind can do that that's probably influenced me more
33:40
than any other book. If you could go back in time and talk to
33:44
yourself when you were twenty years old, what advice would you have for yourself.
33:47
I would probably say, at the age of twenty to try to get
33:52
as broad and varied an education as you possibly can. I think the fact
34:00
that I majored in engineering caused me to specialize too much in a certain branch
34:08
of knowledge, where as a liberal education encompassing literature, art, philosophy,
34:16
economic, psychology, all of that is the best preparation for a full life,
34:22
whether professionally or personally. Did you follow that because you felt like you
34:27
had to have something to kind of fall back on and to have a career.
34:30
Well, my father was an engineer, and I simply started off to
34:36
follow in his footsteps. And it wasn't until I became the film critic of
34:42
the Stanford Daily and I started analyzing films that I realized this is what I
34:46
wanted to do. But I'd spent four years a studying engineering. Did you
34:54
ever use any of that knowledge for filmmaking? Well, as I say,
34:57
going back to calculus, I use the knowledge, but I also use some
35:02
of the way in which you think as an engineer or a physicist or a
35:07
mathematician. There's a thought process of problem solving which can be very creative and
35:14
very satisfying and very useful at the same time. Well, I really appreciate
35:20
you taking the time and talking with me. Very good. Thank you.
35:23
All right, that's going to do it for today. I want to thank
35:25
my guests mister Roger Corman for coming on the show. Thanks a lot.
35:30
I want to thank Jason so much for doing such a great job on this
35:32
episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this
35:36
episode, head over to the show notes at Bullproof Screenwriting dot tv Forward slash
35:39
three twelve. If you haven't already, please please please head over to Screenwriting
35:44
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it truly truly helps us out a lot in getting this information out to
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more and more screenwriters, creatives and filmmakers. Thank you again so much for
36:02
listening. As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to
36:06
you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcasts at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.