Latest / The Unmaking / S01E08: Carmen Hubber - Designer. Arrow Junction, Queenstown

Transcript

S01E08: Carmen Hubber - Designer. Arrow Junction, Queenstown · The Unmaking

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: So Carmen, welcome to The Unmaking.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Where are we parked and what's the significance of this place to you?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're parked in a new property that we've just purchased in the last six months,
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: which is really my dream property.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: We arrived here and there was three massive sheds of 650 square metres of garaging.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Really what we need when we have collect cars and we were looking for somewhere for
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: a showroom for the business and this was just made for us, it was perfect.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a property really close to Queenstown but it's like being in the middle
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: of nowhere and that's why I love it, the privacy of it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: We have 360 degree views, we can see Coronec Peak, we can see The Remarkables.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: We've got beautiful rugged mountains with wild goats and lots, too many rabbits.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's just so beautiful.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just love the peacefulness of it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: With it being so close to Queenstown and Arrotown that I'm in this little beautiful pocket.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: But right beside the action as well.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So Queenstown's got a terrible reputation for traffic and people losing a lot
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: of time in traffic.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: How long does your morning commute take you now to get from when you walk out
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: the door of your home to when you walk into the door of your studio?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well it takes about one minute and it's the most amazing thing for my mental health
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: and everything around my life.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: It has just made a huge huge difference to my life.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize how much difference I'm not getting in the traffic
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: and you know rushing to get to work on time and all that sort of thing.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: The change is just huge.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so I walk out the door and I stroll down and A couple of times I've been late
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: and I've said to the staff, oh,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: the traffic was terrible and they want to beat me up,
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: which is, yeah, it's really, really lovely, really calming, yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the first time that you've been able to combine home and office and
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: that work-life balance or sort of really bring it together in such a way?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I had a studio where I worked from home in Warnock Grove which is Lake Hayes Estate
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: which is close to Queenstown as well and it was about an acre property and
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: that was really wonderful working from home there but As things happen
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: and things change,
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: we've sold that property and I've been looking for something like that really ever
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: since, somewhere to operate from that was a lovely space but not a retail shop.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to have a boutique,
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: a place where it wasn't easy to find,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: people look for it, when people come there it's a surprise.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so really amazing to find this place.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And how's it been since you've moved?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like in terms of having people come out here, visit, things like that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: What's the initial, is it six months now that you've been back on?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nearly six months.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't have a lot of people come to the space unless they make an appointment or invited.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, everyone that's come in just goes, wow, they can't.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: They just love it.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: They walk in the door and they actually say wow, which is, you know, really heartwarming for me.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's, yeah, amazing.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not that far from where you were born, I think it was Invercargill girl?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Invercargill, yeah.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: What was that like?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think you were a bit of a rebel,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've read somewhere that you describe yourself as,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: that sort of the secondary school phase?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well probably right from the start.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been afraid to say what I think,
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: which in those days I was at a private school until I was 12 and you didn't speak.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it never went well for me.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think times have changed so much and people were encouraged to talk more now,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: which is so good.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I was a bit of a rebel.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: School wasn't really for me.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was good at school, but I was bored.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I think that could be a lot to do with having the influence of,
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know, being more creative.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Paperwork and exams weren't really what I was about.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Was it across all subjects or were there subjects that you were,
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really good at these subjects,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: but these other ones is really not a...
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I really wanted to be a PE teacher when I was at school, actually.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I really loved sport and I did every sport.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then you had to do biology and more schoolwork.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, oh, I won't be a PE teacher.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: and I just moved on to,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: really, it wasn't long before I started doing what I'm doing now.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I did fashion, worked in fashion for a wee while and office furniture and stationery.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just evolved into,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know, doing curtains and carpet and furniture, which has evolved.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Into doing full interiors and kitchens and bathrooms.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the start then in that business that came through your uncle,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: is that right, up in Christchurch?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: My uncle had Hubbard's furnishings, which is a company that went for about 60 years.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I worked for him.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: He was like a second dad.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: He was an amazing man.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And actually him and my dad...
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Used to lay carpet and vinyl when they were like 14 or 15 years old
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: when they left home and so yeah it has been a family thing
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: so it was it was wonderful working for him he was such a good man and
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: then decided I wanted to leave Christchurch because I went to Christchurch for
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: a few years and come to Queenstown so that was a big change.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: In the time with your uncle then, was that doing the practical stuff?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Was that more consulting and measuring?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or was that actually then installation and really, you know, ordering the whole... Everything.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I've done a lot of hands-on experience.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I've hung curtains myself and I think that's a great way to do anything is
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: to actually know all the bits.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I enjoy doing all the different parts of the job as well.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love getting a screwdriver and a hammer and helping.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's enjoyable to do all different things.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I get bored very easily.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know This is the one job that I've done that I don't get bored
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: because I'm constantly learning and constantly looking for new things
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: and that's what I love about it because it changes, things change all the time.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: My very worst period when I thought I might leave the industry is when we had 10 years of grey.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: There was that,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I can't cope anymore,
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: and the last few years have been amazing,
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: people are using colour and pattern again,
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: which I love,
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: but I love it in a natural sense,
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: in a classic sense, not in a garish sense, so yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I met some people last year,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think last year,
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: last year,
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: and their whole thing was black and white,
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: that at some point that they've decided we're going to be all about black and white,
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: and I sort of thought,
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know, oh yeah, that sort of You lean into it, but this was exclusive.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: There was nothing,
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: there was no other colour in their entire wardrobe that wasn't either black or white
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: or a combination of the two.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: The cars, the shoes, the interior, everything was black and white.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: that would make me cry.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if somebody wanted black and white, I think it could be done...
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Really well,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: but you'd have to be working with someone like me to do it,
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: to be right,
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: because it would have to have layers of texture and different surfaces and things
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: to make it amazing.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be amazing, but it would be very difficult to do as
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: well.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing,
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: but almost in a kind of a sensory deprivation kind of way,
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: because you're aware of almost something missing when you're being in there,
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: and it's very...
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Impressive because it is also uniform and
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: so it does feel very art directed everything you're looking at and seeing.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I just have to throw something in there.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes like a banana sort of coloured cushion or something or other in there but yeah
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: and what did you Did you learn about clients at that point then working
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: with your uncle that would have been I'm guessing your first exposure to clients in
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: that sort of situation and what they're looking for and often when it comes
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: to interior design what they're actually buying It might like literally might not
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: actually be what they're really buying or what they're actually doing.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Did that take a while to sort of figure out people's motivations
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: and what they were doing or was your uncle able to fast track that process for you?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think that comes a lot with age and experience, learning psychology of people.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people know what they want.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know how to put it together.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: what we're doing is trying to pull out of somebody their dreams and their visions
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: and then give them something that they actually couldn't think of and something
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: beyond what they want.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, is that what you mean?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think...
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned so much about people.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've been a marriage counsellor many times when I've gone to people's houses
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: because everyone's different and everyone has a different idea and
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: to pull it together is sometimes very difficult but it's a challenge
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: and that's what I actually love is actually trying to make Two people happy or,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know, three people or a family and the dog, you know, somewhere for the dog.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's so many aspects in a home, how it's used and how people live.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's giving them somewhere that's their sanctuary, that suits them and their life.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's a lot of it is to do with psychology.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of it.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the marriage counseling thing, I can for sure see that.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Ikea's just arrived here in New Zealand,
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: but going to a big Ikea store in Germany,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And on a Saturday and going particularly the kitchen department and
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: the body language of the couples that were going
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: through kitchen purchasing decisions there in public.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you could just see who had their arms folded and who had the sort of,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know, it was really not a great place to be.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's nothing because wait till they get home and try and put it together together.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's the bit you didn't see.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: People
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: are saying,
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: yeah I can do that,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: it won't be easy and I'll get it up by the end of the week and
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: then it doesn't quite work out.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: and so in terms of the marriage counseling side of things with the clients here,
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: is that around traditional roles in terms of who's perhaps happy and wants
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: to proceed and who's pushing back and saying, no,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: this is,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: and is that then,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: is it financial pushback mainly or is it more around the questions of taste
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: and combining two people's tastes or?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and traditionally,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know, the women were in the kitchen and that is not the case at all anymore.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: So many homes,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: the mother may be working full time and the man might be more of a house husband and
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: a lot more men are cooking,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know, and children are cooking, you know, the whole family are cooking.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, aren't designing a kitchen for children.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: One person, you'll design a kitchen for many people in many different styles.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're so international now.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many different styles of cooking.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: we cook Indian,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: we cook Chinese, we,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know, we grill, we have outdoor, we have a lot of barbecuing, outdoor living.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there's so many factors.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have as many people that are baking anymore, which is sad because of time.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think with a lot of people, people are busy.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I've even had clients put in a brand new kitchen that they say they'll never use.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they use the Weber outside and that's it.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: They will never use that kitchen, which is amazing.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's very sad.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, the world has just changed so much.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so many different sorts of people and ways they love.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's so diverse now.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So diverse now.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is there different things that typically men look for than women when it comes
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: to things like the kitchen?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: That men are looking for a greater degree of functionality
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: or is there anything different that you can...
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well I think so with some of the clients that we've had.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: A man would prefer everything to be on the bench that he can just grab where
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: a woman does often tend to prefer to have things hidden and tidier.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's just something I've noticed.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying that it's all men, okay.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: But that is one thing that I've noticed.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I haven't met a lot of men that are bakers.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, a lot of men are in the kitchen cooking.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And there's houses that the women don't cook at all, absolutely.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I wish for myself for one day, Jason.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just to have a kitchen that's just there for display from your perspective.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, someone that cooks for me.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so you arrived in Queenstown then, so from Christchurch, is that right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: You came from,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: and so this was also,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: so from Invercargill up to Christchurch and back to Queenstown.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I spent six years in Christchurch and then I come to Queenstown in 1997.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's many years ago now.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was this beautiful little wee tiny town.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I just loved it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I still love it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's grown and changed so much.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I still absolutely love it here.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I can't imagine being anywhere else.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just think I live in the most beautiful place in the world.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a one and a half hours drive from Invercargill?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, two hours to Invercargill and my mum's still down there
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: and my brother are still down there so I still go down there a lot and it's just
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: a nice short trip.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: When you first moved here then,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: was that like every night's a Saturday night,
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: to be in a ski resort town,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Alpine town,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: or was it a different thing, no, no,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going here to work and to do things,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: or was it more about the,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: you're finally now living in that amazing town that was up the road that you used
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: to go and have holiday.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I was in my 20s and it was a work hard,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: play hard town,
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: and that was the one thing I loved about Queenstown,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: you could go out on a Wednesday night and it would be A full on busy night
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: and there's always things happening and there's always events
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: and you'd have really good bands would come to Queenstown in the week
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: because they wanted to come to Queenstown and they're playing in a city in
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: the weekend.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things I love about the place.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's always got something happening.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can stay at home and have a nice,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: quiet life and do walks and all the beautiful walks and skiing.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a skier.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love skiing.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: You look out the window and go, oh, shall I go up the Remarks or shall I go up Coronet?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Coronet looks better today.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's half an hour and you're skiing.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're just lucky.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I ride a motorbike.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we have all these amazing roads for motorbike riding,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: which, you know, we're surrounded by it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a lake, we've got the boat, we've got rivers.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just, the only thing we haven't got is a beach.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we do have to go and get that beach fix.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: But that's it.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that salt water.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only thing that's missing.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Which is only two hours up the road.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, true.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's a pretty good combination.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: So initially you were working at Mackenzie and Willis Interior Design.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: What was the role there?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I came down to work at Mackenzie and Willis and I was there for six years
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: and I run the curtains and furniture side of the business here.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: There was only two of us here in a wee office when we started that with Mackenzie and Willis.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Gary, he did the carpet and I did the other side.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: So over that six years that business grew hugely.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: I used to,
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: when I first come I actually worked there until 5 o'clock,
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: then I worked at the Britannia and I waitressed till 10 or 11 o'clock at night
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: as well.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was working really,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: really hard because I wanted to buy a house and I come to Queenstown when there was
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: a massive recession so I was very, very lucky.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I bought one of the cheapest houses in Queenstown at that time
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: so I was really, really lucky.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Lucky but also working really hard.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I was working 14, 16 hour days, absolutely.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not afraid to work hard and I still work really hard and I love that.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: so I worked there for six years and then I had my daughter Ruby and
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: after I had Ruby I couldn't stand the thought of going back to work full time.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I Printed off 200 business cards and walked around town with the pram
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: and started Carmen Hover interior design at the time, that was what it was called.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And got my first job on that first day,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: an apartment through a real estate agent in Queenstown, Jeff Toner.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I got a little bar as well, which was a bar in Dunedin actually, a wee bar job, Pukino.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it was super Exciting and so I just started doing curtains from my garage and
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: that was where the business started.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So driven by,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: let me get this right,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: driven by the concept of having to work full time,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: that this was now that you're a parent,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: you realise, okay, this is not going to work for me?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was still going to be,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was still working full time,
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: but juggling a baby and I wanted to be with Ruby as much as possible.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea was that if I work from home, I was with her.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: I could do and when I needed to go and see a client I had a lovely lady she came in
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: and looked after Ruby for a couple of hours while I'd pop out and do a measure
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: and yeah so I actually got to have that time You know,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: with Ruby and slowly grow the business.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it worked well.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what was the advice coming in your direction at that point around in terms of,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: oh yeah, good on you, Carmen, that's a good idea, you should definitely do that.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or were there a few other people saying, are you mad?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a full-time job or you've got basically a paid job rather than going out on your own.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or what was your support network telling you?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't ask anyone anything.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I just did it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I might have said something to dad,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: but my dad was,
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know, he was a real entrepreneur, so he probably inspired me a lot.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: He had lots of different businesses and was very successful in all of them.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't scared to try.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I just thought I'd built Mackenzie and Willis up so I could do it for myself too.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, yeah, that's what I set out to do.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so then you transitioned then into working for yourself,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: got off to a great start from that very first day,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: basically, from giving out business cards.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: You got two jobs from that first job.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I found just being social and meeting people and being part of Chamber
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: of Commerce and doing networking things is huge for business.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're actually getting out there and meeting people and talking to people and
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is how a lot of business is done, yeah.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Had you experienced anything like that in Indycargill or in Christchurch or not really?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Were you too young at that point to have done that sort of networking,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: like things like the Chamber of Commerce and getting around it?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I didn't do that in Christchurch.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know about Chamber of Commerce until I came to Queenstown, I suppose.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was only about 24.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: 25 when I come to Queenstown.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, it's definitely that networking thing has helped.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: In the recession about 2008,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: around that sort of time,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was part of a BNI,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: business networking group, and that absolutely got me through that recession.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: That was so powerful, that group.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: We would meet every Tuesday morning and people would give referrals and try
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: and help each other get through that time and the power of that group was so,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: it was massive.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in that group for probably three and a half,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: four years and it was started by two other really successful people in the town
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: that time which, yeah, it was a great thing.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Was that around the time that you started working on the Jagged Edge project?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually and a lot of people went under,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of businesses went under at that time and I started working
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: on this exciting project Jagged Edge which It was way beyond anything
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: that had been built and probably still is.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's a huge glass shard that is hanging from a mountain near Moat Lake.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Just the most incredible architecture, the most incredible project.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: It really was amazing.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the companies that were a part of that at the beginning went under it at
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: the start of that recession which was really,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: really sad and I was so lucky to be able to stay in that project and see
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: that project through to the end.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really proud of that and thankful to the owners that come in
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: and still liked me and wanted me to continue with it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was just an amazing, amazing project.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And was that one of the ones that you then got from a sort of cold calling kind
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: of business card to hand out or through a network or referrals?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a referral.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think probably 95% of my business has always been referral, which is great.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's good business and the people like if they're referred,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: they feel more comfortable with you as well, which...
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, is how I like it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a handshake kind of girl.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the change in how with AI,
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know we have to embrace it and I'm embracing some of it, which we have to.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's the way the world is going,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: but I still long for being down the street, handshake, let's do business.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: That honest, pure form is what I prefer.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of AI,
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: are you starting to get clients now that are turning up with,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: oh, look, I've done this thing and giving you something.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we've designed this and can you just quickly draw it up?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately it's not reality and people are starting to realise and they will realise.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's great for ideas and it's great for showing people things and it's great
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: for writing proposals and things because I I don't like that paperwork side,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: back to my childhood.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's great for all those things and it's got lots of benefits and I think we are
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: and we'll use it in the business a lot but I still love the personable I like
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: the personable thing.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: I prefer to deal with a client direct.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: We do deal with a lot of clients online from overseas and we can do
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: the whole project through Zoom and things like that but I still want
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: to see their face.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I still want to talk to them and for it to be real.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's quite different, isn't it?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think when you personally,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: when you get to personally and physically meet somebody,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: you have so much of a better idea for them and particularly in your work in terms
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: of, okay, what's going to work for this person?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure that after a 10-minute conversation in person,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: you would just have so much more clarity in terms of things that before
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: that conversation, you think, yeah, maybe this, maybe that.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the relationships.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've got some of the most amazing friends through my work.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Clients that we've met and we've known them for,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know, I've got three or four clients I've done seven houses for.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's incredible.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they've become lifetime friends.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that keeps them coming back, do you think?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: They love me.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Relationships, yeah.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: They keep coming back.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: they're happy with what we've done and I'm growing and developing and changing all
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: the time as well.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: One of my mentors in life is David Bowie, you know, changes.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: He kept changing.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to keep reinventing yourself.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to keep up with things.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only way to stay in business.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you stay the same, you're not going to ever survive.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's what I love.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I like changing.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I like learning.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: We are learning all the time, which I enjoy, you know, love it.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Has that changed over the course of time or the period of time that you've been in
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: the industry when you look back and you think in terms of new stuff to learn
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: or new topics or new things that you've got to learn?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is this just been successively increasing or was it a couple of phases?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: There was a phase in the early 2000s where there was a lot of new stuff suddenly and
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: then there didn't seem to be a lot of new things and then now the last three years
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: or how has that been?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I push myself into learning more and more all the time because
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: the business has grown so much that you know we're learning about plumbing,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: we're learning about electrical,
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: we're learning about building,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: we're learning about lighting you know and technology is changing so quickly
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: that it's constantly we're learning all the time and It's great
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: that we actually know quite a lot sometimes before the people
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: that are even doing those jobs,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: which is really exciting that we can pass on that knowledge as well and learn
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: from each other.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of what I really love.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a sort of in terms of being able to be exposed to new things that you need?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to be learning what's fresh, what's going on?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you go to?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is this like a physical trips that you go somewhere internationally to go and look
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: at a trade show or what's happening?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this magazines?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is it websites, social media?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: What's your in terms of staying on top of things and always continuing to learn?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I work so hard I don't have time for magazines
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: and social media very much which is just how I am.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I like to have my time off to ride a motorbike or go on the boat or things like that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: We go to trade shows, we have reps coming in to see us every week.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: We go to Australia and to The design shows they have there,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: they have the Milan,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Eureka Cina, every two years now, we'll be going to that next year.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: But with social media,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: like you say,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Eureka Cina, the show, it's in social media a week after, straight away.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you can see...
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Quite often we get shown things before they even get to those shows.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're updated all the time, and we're constantly being updated by the importers, suppliers.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think you said 2009-2010 was pretty much the darkest time.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: What was going on there?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Was that recession-led?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Was that personal in terms of this was the period of time that many broke me?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there was,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I would say I've lasted two recessions of divorce and COVID,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: which I think is amazing.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm proud of that.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: But in that time, there was a really bad recession and I went through a divorce.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd lost my beautiful home that I'd built,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: which I thought I'd be in forever, which was a really, really difficult time.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the Lake Hayes property?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was the Lake Hayes property and we had a lovely studio and I lost everything.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I lost everything and I owed about,
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of money over,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: nearly $200,000 and I thought it was over and then I was,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to be like some of the people that I'd seen around town
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: that had just gone bankrupt and walked away and left people So I borrowed money
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: and I paid every cent and I thought right now I'm going to move forward
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm going to keep going and I'm going to pay that money back and carry on
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: with my business and I did and I just worked really really hard
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: and I never actually knew that I could pay that money back
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: but I did it really quick.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't buy anything for two or three years and I Changed to my $9 bottles of wine,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: which after a while they tasted like the $20 bottles and et cetera, et cetera.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a really dark time
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: losing a home because I'd had a home in Queenstown
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: so early and I'd done well.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't just the recession and the business.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot of things that caused that.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: To lose the home and it was very sad.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was a very,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: very hard time but those really bad times make you stronger and more resilient
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: and more determined and I loved it when I felt my spark coming back and I knew
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: that I could You know,
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: smash this and I was going to come back and now here I am sitting
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: at this beautiful property with a waterfall.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a waterfall,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: and I think,
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know, pat,
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: pat and I'm very,
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: very happy and I've met a beautiful new partner and two wonderful children.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you think that came from,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: that courage,
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: that determination not to take the easy way out then at that point,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: not to declare bankruptcy and just to say,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: hey, look, sorry, creditors, you're on your own now, I'm off, I'm going to restart.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the sort of default setting that a lot of people have.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something that you'd put back to your upbringing,
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: those family values that you had, those own values that you had developed already?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: How much of it was about wanting to be a role model to your kid?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: What's the, looking back?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: So my dad,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think every business has rises and falls and roller coasters
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: and I'd watch my dad have You know huge businesses in the 70s with souvenir shops
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: and then there was a massive crash and you know he lost everything
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: and he started jewelry shops and I'd watched him be
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: a you know very successful resilient person but I also had an auntie
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: that had You know we mini mart and then when
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: the big supermarkets come her business went under
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: and she was very close we were like she was like a sister you know and
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: when I remember it was about 10 years
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: after her little mini mart had closed down she said to me I've paid back
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: the last dollar I owed from that business
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just so, you know, sorry, emotional.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty special to have role models like that within your own family
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: and I fully get that and to also that Sense of satisfaction and taking a positive
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: from a loss like that to be okay as shitty as that experience is but to be able
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: to stand there at the end of it and to be able to pat yourself on your back
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: and say hey you know that's what I did.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah just so proud to not be a person that caused someone else pain that's what
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: and I think in Queenstown we've seen it a lot Um,
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: through, you know, different recessions and things.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, businesses go under and that's all the little businesses that, um, suffer,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know, and,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: and I've watched lots of little businesses go under in Queenstown
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: through different recessions here and it's been because of a big company and, um,
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's terrible and I would never,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: ever want to, ever, anyone to ever think that I could be like that.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, With my business,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very, very strict and careful and proud to do a good job and always be fair.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so important.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: How long was it before you had the feeling,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm back,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've got through,
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've been down to the valley,
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in the deepest part of the valley and I'm now starting to climb again.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: How long did that period take then?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was a good 10 years it took to feel like I was really confident but I never felt
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: that the business was not there.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was more me personally to get through all that hard time.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: It took a long time.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do then in terms of to be able to,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: because I imagine that there were days that were worse than others,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: but in that situation,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: what was your go-to or those things that you had to be able to go,
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: okay, I need to tank?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously you weren't doing retail therapy, that's not an option, right?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't go out, okay,
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to go and buy a new outfit or what have you,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: or go to a hairdresser,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: and there's a lot of those things that typically people would do
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: to make themselves feel better in the short term.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: How were you getting through that?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: My motorbike and skiing and nature.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: So riding my motorbike with my helmet on and no one can talk to me,
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: my phone can't ring because I'm such a busy person.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: the corners,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: the riding, that feeling and skiing has that same, the corners, the flow.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's the most peaceful, amazing thing.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we live in paradise.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if we feel bad, you just look out the window.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, really, we just live in this nurturing, amazing place.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, walking, just the mountains, it's medicine.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: There is so much medicine here.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Can you meditate?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are you a meditator?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a meditator,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: but I think riding the motorbike, probably a little bit fast, is meditation.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: It is my meditation.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I could meditate, but I have a busy mind.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm exactly the same.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I need a lot of things going on to be able to stop the monkey mind.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: So to sit still and to assume that this is going to work, that doesn't work for me.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be out on a motorbike or doing something or on a snowboard
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: or doing something where I can't think about anything else because it's all
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: about just what's coming next.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: The movement.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: The movement.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's my relaxation.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Concentrating on that flow.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: When did motorbiking, a motorcycle start for you?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: How old were you when you first got into it?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: We had a farm bike.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yes.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I brought my, I brought a Harley in about 2010.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Which I still have, but I've kept it because it's my first nice bike and now I ride an Indian.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I just absolutely love it.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, ride motorbikes and ride Yeah, all my life really.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the sort of bike, has that changed in terms of the shape and what have you, the style?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: I am not a bike snob.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: I like all bikes and I'd like to have 10 of every flavour.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I would like more.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, road bikes, off-road bikes.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm planning a trip at the moment in Vietnam which will be on-road, off-road.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to be doing that.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Really exciting.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got a bike for that or will you need a different bike or you get a bike?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to hire a bike over there.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because otherwise that would be like one of those Trans-Africa kind of TT kind
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: of Enduro kind of bikes.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it'll be an adventurer type.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a bike will be what it will be.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you say you love clients who let you loose.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: When you're taking a brief,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: then in that sort of situation,
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: what's the ideal brief that you're going to get that you know,
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: okay, we're going to have so much fun on this project?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: When a client gives you trust, That is absolutely when the magic happens.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not about what I want to do.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's about me listening to them and finding out what their passions are,
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: how they live and what their dream is and then me making it way beyond their dreams.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what is the magic for me in the job.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about some carpet and curtains and tiles and a nice kitchen.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the lighting,
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: it's about the art, it's about the finishing, the cushions, it's lamps.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: When we get to do those bits and help with the art, art's a very personable thing.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: They might have a piece of art that I'll look at and I'll go,
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: wow, I can just pull out this whole design from this.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or they might have a dress or a hat or just something that they love.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: It can be so many things.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's finding colors, how they feel.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Color psychology is a massive thing in what we do.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Colors definitely give you feelings and emotions, 100%.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: So making the rooms suit what they're designed for.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: A movie room,
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: it shouldn't be white,
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: it should be dark,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: it should be cosy,
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: maybe it has texture and wallpaper,
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: but it shouldn't also have a whole lot of things in it because it's for movies.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bathrooms.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want it to be spa-like and light and bright or do you want it to be dark and moody?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have baths at night?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have them in the morning?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many things and questions.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: The questions of me doing a full house for somebody could be, you know, five pages long.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's getting the information and then giving them something super special.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the magic is when a client is just so happy and they love it.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we want.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's the whole reward for the job.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And how involved are they typically in that process?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say talk about a new build,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: so from when you take that first meeting to the point where they're actually moving
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: in,
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: how many face-to-face meetings are there,
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: assuming they're national or locally based, or even if they're not?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on how much they want to be involved.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people have no way Not a lot of idea of what they want or how to do it.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I do like to involve them through it and make sure that they're liking the path
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: that we're on.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the second and third meetings are really important
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: where we actually start showing them textures and fabrics and products
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: and things like that.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's that finishing.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: So all of that is the basis of The bottom part and then it's the cushions and
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: the art and the lights and the lighting and the lamps that actually finish
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: the project.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's the little tiny bits of colour so if it's a black and white room it might be
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: that rusty lamp in the corner I don't know but it might be that one little tiny bit.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: If we look at colour from nature if you look at a pansy this is
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: a really good example A purple and yellow pansy that has the perfect little bit
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: of black in the middle and the little dot of white and the green is just
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: the right colour and the percentages of colour on the stem.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Things like that,
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: colour in nature is,
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: if you designed a room from a flower you'll probably hit it
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that one
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: of your main sources of inspiration then, nature and flowers?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Colour from nature,
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: especially where we live,
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: we have so much reds and burgundies and golds and coppers
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: and we have all these beautiful colours that are,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: I love autumn colours,
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know, so obviously live in the right place and I love that in design.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think those colours, they suit here.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to have all those colours but we have so many colours in nature here.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're super lucky, super lucky.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's your, how has your own aesthetic changed over the years?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or has it changed?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or has it remained relatively consistent?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you notice there are trends where you will have a sort of a phase or a period?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Was it maybe you had a grey phase as well?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this something, things that go, hey, so I understand this is coming back, but not for me?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: I never had a grey phase, thank goodness.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely it has changed.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: I prefer natural products.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: I like using natural products.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: After being in Europe and seeing all the old marbles and the worn marbles and
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: the stories that they tell and the steps that are worn out from lots
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: of people's feet.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love products that change with time.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful handles that wear where people are grabbing them.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, you know, natural metals, natural stone, natural wool carpet.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love natural product.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I also still, I have a little bit of bling in my life as well.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just having those little pieces and having them in the right places.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've got more confident and more confident using colour.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're always changing and developing, always.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a project that you've done that you're most proud of looking back?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: That you can say, yeah, oh, holy shit, we already nailed that.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: And even now,
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: even if it's like eight years later,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: 15 years later or what have you,
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: it still holds up or there are some things that you might maybe change slightly,
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: but generally, no, 100%.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's probably three or four.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've just done a job a year ago that was,
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: they wanted to have a Mediterranean feel,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: a Moroccan feel,
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: which I love doing because we got to use all these beautiful rich colours.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love that.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love when people are happy to use colour.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: I did a job in Glenaukie for one of our clients that we've done five or six houses for.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was a place that looked a lot more like,
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: what's the lodge down there?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: I should know.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: The big lodge.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, it's all beautiful natural stone.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we did a beautiful green kitchen and lots of timber.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved it.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: I loved that house.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, makes you feel nice.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think natural products have that beautiful warm feel.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like your horse float here with the lovely wholesome timber in it.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: It feels comfortable and you feel good in it.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so sort of quality natural materials, they are pretty timeless, right?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're my favourite style jobs, yeah.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you call yourself a visual person who's terrible at paperwork.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: How do you manage or how do you balance in those conflicts of running a business,
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: which does involve a lot of admin and paperwork,
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: with the creative elements of being a designer?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do you manage those two?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's been really,
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: really difficult because the business I run on my own for a very long time,
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: but as it's grown,
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: I now have a Kate and a Sharon and a Ruby and a Jason, which is amazing.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think delegating the work that you're not good at to someone else is a really smart move.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: It gets done in a better way and quicker and you're doing what you like
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: and they're doing what they like.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I like also having a little bit of hands-on on everything.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: I like knowing how to do everything and you've got to know every part of your business.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I do that as well.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: But having people working with you that can take those things away is amazing.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about Jason.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: How did he come into the business and how has that changed then since you guys got together?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Jason and I met at a car show.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: We collect old cars as well.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's another thing we do.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: But he is an engineer.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: So he's Really, really amazing, you know, precise and loves doing things with his hands.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: He's incredibly clever with, builds motors for race motors and things like that.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: So he's, Jason is everything.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: He does everything.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: he lived in Invercargill when I met him and eventually moved up here and,
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: we wanted to be together and we thought, well,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: let's have a go and see if we can work together and He's become a huge part with
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: the business as well and he's built amazing things and jobs we've done
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: that we would never have done.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a client that wanted this amazing range hood above their barbecue
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: and it had to be all done in steel and Jason's like, yeah, we can do that.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the business has grown in different ways with Jason being part of it
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: and he handles all motorisation with tracks and things like that as well.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do so many different things and he's got skills that I don't.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's really good at,
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: he's more forward and manager-like,
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: whereas I like being, you know, just in the background in the team.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's good.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: We work really well together, which is great because it's growing a whole new...
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing a lot more work where we're doing renovations
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: and he's project managing all the plumbers and electricians and things like that
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: so we've got more control of what we're doing now and making sure
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: the whole job's really good so we've got great partners so that's been something
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: a way that it's changed and in a really good way yeah.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: And what about the classic cars then?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know that that's something people are pretty passionate about.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: So was there any conflict there in terms of like Ford versus Holden or any sort
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: of fundamental differences there that you, okay, we need to be careful here.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: We might need to avoid this as a topic.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well it's quite funny because I think we're kind of perfect for each other
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: because we both like so,
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: we like everything and we're not one camp or the other in anything which is
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: so wonderful but we're so bad for each other because we need
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: a 10 car shed now right?
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not big enough.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're both passionate about cars and motorbikes and it's just so wonderful
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: to meet someone that is like me and I'm like him and it's, yeah.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got your daughter, Ruby, who's now joining the business.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know,
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: to start from having her in your plan when you're handing out the business cards,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: she has literally been with you and in the business since day one,
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: basically, or day dot in that case.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: That must be pretty special for you to have her coming in now into the business.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that comes back again to me looking up to my uncle with
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: the Hubbard's furnishings and the family business and his business was...
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: The family are all part of that and I always wanted a family business.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love it and so there's Jason and I and there's Ruby.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Stella's about to go to university next year.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: I would love her to be part of it too but she needs to follow her own dreams
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: and they always have to work for someone else first because you don't want them
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: to be treating you like mum at work.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been wonderful and Ruby's Just absolutely fallen into it.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: She's doing so well and she's been doing her diploma in kitchen design.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's come so far.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: She's been with us five years now, which is incredible.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really, I love it.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Love having her there.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: We've got such a good team and our team is like a family.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Kate and Sharon, I consider them, we're all part of it.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're like a family.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: I noticed that.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, your other staff or your non-blood related staff have also been with you for
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: a long time,
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: which is also,
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think, a really strong endorsement of you as an employer and as a person.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: How does that responsibility sit with you in terms of having staff like that
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: that are obviously, okay, come on, we're on board, we're with you.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: How does that sit with you?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love it and I think if we go back to that recession
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: where I had two staff I had to let go when that happened and I left it way too late
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: because I felt so responsible for them and it tore me to pieces and it was
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: the worst day ever to let them go and I still feel You know,
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: terrible about it,
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: but I absolutely did everything I could to help them and make sure,
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know, that they got into other employment.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I still feel that now that would,
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: if that happened to me,
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'd just, oh, you know, yeah, they're part of my family, 100%.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a responsibility, but it makes you work hard and do well as well.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's okay.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something that you say,
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think this might be part of the reason why people like working with me
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: and like either as clients or as staff,
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: is it the balance that you've managed to bring,
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: is it your fairness,
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: is it your consistency and your honesty,
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: what is the The secret sauce that you think,
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think this might be something that not everybody has to... Yeah,
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: I care about people.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: I 100% care about people.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I really care about being fair.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know if people know that or not.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how you portray it.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: But, yeah, the staff, we...
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: I totally care about them.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we make sure we have this amazing Christmas party.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: We have an amazing Christmas party.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's ridiculous but we always do because I want to give back all the time as well
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: because I'm lucky enough to have found people that have the same ethics as I do.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like we've got this great team,
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: they're all really great people and you've got to just be fair in everything
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm fair to them and they're fair to me.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: How much or how tightly is that related to the size of your business?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something where you say, okay,
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: if we were to scale up,
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: if we were to get bigger,
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know I could maintain the vibe that we've got currently up to so and
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: so many people or after that it just wouldn't work?
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: That does scare me growing.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of want to keep it small because that's what I love.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love that small team and the relationships that we have.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of need to grow at the moment because we're so busy, which is wonderful.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: And finding the right people to do that is very,
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: very important to me, that it's the right people that fit, very important.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it's trying to create a culture,
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: an environment that people want to work in and that can So we work hard
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: and we play hard and sometimes we just take time out when we need to.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think recognising that in people that are working for you,
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: that they need time out or things are getting too much,
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: recognising that and allowing them,
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's something that I think I do, which is good.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: Picking the right people is also so important.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Have you found something that you've said, hey,
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: this works really well,
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: or if I see this trait in a person,
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: that's an automatic no,
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: or what are the things that you've found have worked well in hiring?
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: Funnily enough, Sharon has worked with me for over 10 years now.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: She picked Kate, who works with us, Thank goodness, Kate's wonderful.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm a great judge of character.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I am.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm getting better, I don't know.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: But we just have the best team.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about that one.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a bit of luck.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it is luck, but it's worked out well.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's worked out well, yeah.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm nervous for the next one.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have just got a new girl just started as well last week, Leone, and she's wonderful.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: She's, you know, turning out to be, I think she'll fit in really well, so it's...
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: You can only wait and see really.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: And hope they enjoy the culture and become part of the culture.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you want.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's important, isn't it?
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: And to understand that role as an employer,
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: which not everybody does in terms of that's part of your responsibility,
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: is to offer an environment in which that person hopefully feels free
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: to express themselves and to fulfil their potential and enjoy coming to work and all
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: the other things that not a lot of employers actually, I think, really understand.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you want people to be happy.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: You want people to be happy.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I have been in a business which was a larger business and There is a saying
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: that says the rotten apple can ruin the bunch and absolutely it can,
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: big time.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a rotten apple,
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: it needs to go as fast as it can or change because it affects everybody.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of my favourite quotes of all time was about, I can't remember who it was,
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: Management's about getting the right people on the bus,
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: the wrong people off the bus,
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: and then the right people into the right seats on the bus.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, wow, it's like, you know, because there's several steps there, basically.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about,
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: hey, get the right people on the bus, and then everything's going to be fine.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: If they're in the wrong seats,
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: or you've got some people on the bus that actually did the wrong people,
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: then it's not going to go well.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, finding the seat that they fit.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that they know,
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: that they also say, yeah, okay,
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't have picked this one seat for myself,
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: but you're right, actually, this does suit me pretty well on my skills.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: What role does music play then in work and life?
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is this something that you listen to different music when you're working?
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is working a space where you don't like music, you don't like having music?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is it purely a relaxation, free time thing?
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love music and I'm very, very diverse with my music.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: I love seeing live music.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's a passion.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: If I can go to a live band, I'm going.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love it.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have music in the background at work.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: I try and keep it a little bit softer.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm usually so busy I don't even hear the music anyway but everyone else likes
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: to have music in the background and we do change it up quite a bit.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: We all like rock,
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's something about our team but the whole team do like rock.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: But we listen to blues and we listen to jazz and pop and all sorts of music.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I like Willie Nelson, I like country too so huge Huge variety of music.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it is something I love to do is to go and see live music.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: What about on your bike?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something you prefer, no music than in that situation?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that music as well?
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on the mood or is it, no, if I'm on this bike, then it's rock.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm on that bike, it's, you know, or this country.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have no music on my motorbike and that's my, like I say, my meditation.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: If I'd have music, I would have a speeding ticket every time.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: I could not do it because I probably would listen to rock and I'd go too fast
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: and I'd probably die.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: So the motorbike is my meditation and definitely silence and that's when I think and relax.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: Coming back to the time around your divorce and the recession and basically being
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: so close to the edge there,
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: was that,
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: looking back now,
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: is that something you say, okay,
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: this was a new version of me that emerged or was it a person
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: that had always been there and
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was reminded of who I was,
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: or was this actually, no,
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: this was an entirely new person that you were unaware of,
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: some of those strengths and things that you then were able to pull out from
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: that period?
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think I've always been determined and honourable,
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: and I think that's kind of what that just, I got to use it.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I've always was as young, always, you know, into sport, very competitive.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that just has been all the way through my life, really.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: Competitiveness.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't play a competitive sport now, but I probably should because I like it.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoy it.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the same,
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: the business is what's,
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: worked for me there is,
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: succeeding and making it better and all the time trying to, you know, be better.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see that as a competitive side of things?
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are you competing against yourself or competing against the industry standards or averages?
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: Competing against myself.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: I want to create things that are different and better.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: I want to make new things.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been designing, which is a new thing that I want to do, do one-off new things.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think the markets,
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: all these lovely little boutique shops have all closed
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: and everything's becoming chain stores and mass produced and I hate it.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to create different things and people want different things now too.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've been going through all these phases of Ikea and Flatpak and it's all the same
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't like that.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of thing at all.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's got its place, absolutely.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, cheap wardrobe inside, something like that.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: but I think a lot more people are op shopping and looking for those neat old things,
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: one-off things that are not around so much anymore.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I've designed some quite cool furniture,
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: which I'm really proud of, and I'd definitely like to spend more time doing that.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: It is something I've always wanted to do but time
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: and money have always been something that's held me back
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: and I feel like I've got this lovely new place now and I've got space
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: and I can actually start making things and putting them out there
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: which is really exciting.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really,
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: really exciting new phase which is all part of this wonderful new place
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: where we are.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to decide what to design then?
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: Where does that come from, the ideas?
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: So is it going to be furniture or it might be all sorts of things?
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then if it is going to be furniture then is it chairs or is it tables?
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well I have been designing bars,
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: cocktail cabinets and I love designing them,
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: useful things and things that have places for things.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: In those designs.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: So not just a cabinet,
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: a cabinet that has the drawers for the utensils and just nice little places
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: for instruments and things to go.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that are decorative and that are functional and that look really cool.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been enjoying,
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've done a couple and the clients that have got those Have been lucky
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: because I feel like they've got a great deal and they've got something super cool
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: and they're proud of, which is again the end result that we want.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: Jason, now we've got this great space and he loves working with metal
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: and maybe I can get him making cool things in metal as well,
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: timber and different finishes.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, very exciting.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I've told him that, but he'll hear about it, I'm sure.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if he listens to this, then you'll know whether or not he's listened to the episode.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: He'll love it.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: that's awesome to be able to go then to,
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: almost like both directions,
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: from the sort of vertical integration and from doing that,
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: just more of a sort of consultancy specifying kind of role then into actually design
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: and then manufacture.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_00: And to be able to do that for those sort of one-offs and small projects and Because
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: a lot is about the new, right?
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: People that love your clients,
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: we want something that,
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know, and one of the reasons I want it is that somebody else doesn't have it.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's just it.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: They don't,
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of clients don't want to go to their friend's house and see the same cabinet
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: and the same couch.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't want to do that.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's, you know,
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: really important that every job we work on is different and has,
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know, Something completely different and special.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where cushions are wonderful.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's all these amazing fabrics about.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing fabrics.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: you only need a little bit to make a cushion and it can be some incredible impact.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's just little things like that.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: I realise I'm a little bit of a cushion guy,
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: but based on some of the comments I've had from people,
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: I realise, well,
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe cushions are a little bit like pineapple on pizza,
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: that it's like for some people this is really,
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: oh my God,
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: how embarrassing you've got cushions kind of thing,
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: that basically a sofa or a chair should just be there naked in its pureness of form.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there are others that are quite happy to have a cushion,
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: particularly when it comes to getting comfortable and things like that.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well see yeah so that's minimalism and maximalism and I'm in the middle
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm definitely for comfort and you know having the right cushion and
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: a feather inner,
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: you sit on a couch like that you're going to sit there a lot longer than you are on
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_01: a hard one without one.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: Makes a huge difference.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: So your new showroom here,
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: so a long time coming and a long time between drinks in terms of looking back to
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: the last time you had what was really your own space.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: What does that feel like now to have that flexibility,
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: to have the ability to put in everything,
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: all the samples,
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: everything you've got, also new projects and bits and pieces you've got coming up.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: How does that feel?
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: Every morning I walk in there I smile.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is just incredible.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a beautiful space and it's a beautiful space.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: People can come in and they can look at everything and I know where everything is
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: because it's all set out so nicely and I've got spaces for everything.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just such a beautiful space.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just love it.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: It feels so good.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel calm and very happy.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any clients where you think maybe that might be a bit of a challenge
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: or you're going to need some big curtains to be able to hide things so
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: that all they see is what you've carefully curated for them rather
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: than having them run amok and go,
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: oh my God,
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: look at this,
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: and pull out all these things that they perhaps might like but you'd think,
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: oh, that's really not going to work together.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_01: That never happens.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And anyone that does do that, they've actually...
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Confident in themselves and color and things like that and those people I don't mind.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just want people to come and go through all the samples because there's
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_01: so many beautiful samples.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have a habit of buying a lot of samples because I love fabric so much
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: and I actually have a storage shed that is full of old samples
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: that have been deleted That I thought when I was old I could be an old lady
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_01: and make cushions and sell them.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Which is quite funny.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: But by then I probably will be arthritic and I won't be able to sew them.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I have the most amazing fabrics all stored.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I have slowly started making some of them into cushions.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_01: But they're not perfect.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just any fabrics, I've only kept all the beautiful ones and I have so many.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And one day someone will go through those and they'll just be blown away,
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_01: which will be really
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: cool.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_00: What makes a beautiful fabric for you then?
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that you say, okay, I know this is worth keeping, this is worth having one too?
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Just colours, having the correct balance of colour
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: and texture and feel.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like a cushion shouldn't be hard or rough.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: It should be soft and beautiful.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: We have cushions that are just decorative, but I prefer them when they're functional.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Patterns is a big thing.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: There aren't a lot of patterns around that I love.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Visual or textural?
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Visual.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm quite fussy on that.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot of really expensive designer patterns that were just a sample.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So there's only enough there to make a cushion.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really, really special.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it might have been $800 a metre, the fabric.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we can turn this into this gorgeous cushion.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And cheaply, because it was a sample, right?
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So what's coming up then,
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: looking at the next five,
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: ten years,
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: what's the next thing that you've got on the horizon that you know is really going
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_00: to take you to the edges of your capability and capacity and competence?
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think the technology is a huge thing and I don't think anyone really knows
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_01: where it's going.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Good and bad.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think the world is in a very uneasy place.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are uneasy.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Are they going to have a job?
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is a robot going to be doing their job?
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's changing and developing so quickly.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm always looking at other options and other ways to
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_01: How the business can develop and change to keep up.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we're always looking at that all the time.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking at where people can put on the goggles and they can look at their room
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: with how we're going to design it.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Those things are...
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: are out there they're not quite right yet but that's only a matter of time
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: and we'll draw the room and you'll put your goggles on
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: and you'll see exactly you walk around your room before it's even built
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_01: which is incredible so technology and change is huge and and we've got
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: to be looking forward all the time but I really would like to be designing more
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_01: and that's something I would really love to be able to do
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: I like dealing with every level in the business as well.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I like being able to help people that might not think that they've got the budget for us.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: We work with every level and I really love that.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to keep letting those people know that we still work in all levels.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I enjoy it.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to work in every level because you never know what's going to happen.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to stay there and Be humble and work with everybody and do and sometimes
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_01: the biggest challenge is the smallest budget
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: and that's actually quite often can be more fun like wow we did that for
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: that much it's so amazing yeah so it's
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of not a lot of people do that like
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of people would say I know this is our niche
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_00: and we're not we're not interested in you know doing renovations
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_00: for example we only want to do new builds because we know that
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_00: the budget's automatically going to be at a thing where we can earn a lot of money
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_00: from this project.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah a lot of people do that and I actually love a renovation.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's much harder.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot more work.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I love a renovation because you see what it was before and how it changes
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_01: into this amazing new environment.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I find them a real challenge and I love it.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I love working, again, with every level.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I could probably just stay in the niche market.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's because I like doing lots of different things.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like dealing with all different people as well.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of what I love is the people is a big part of it.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And do you find it, because I know I find it much easier to work with something that I can see.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, the concept of building a home just sounds so complex to me.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Renovating a home, no problem.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_00: If I can see a building and I know exactly what I would change
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: or how I would improve that,
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_00: But if I had to start from scratch with completely blank canvas
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_00: that I would be massively challenged there.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you find,
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_00: do you have a preference for an existing renovation that you can see a space
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_00: and know exactly what it needs to be or do you find it just as easy
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: to work virtually from a plan and some mood boards and this is what
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_00: the room is going to look like but you can't actually be physically in that space
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_00: for a few months
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_01: yet?
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that that's what I have to be able to do, be doing the job that we do.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Ruby is wonderful.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_01: She does all our 3D and our renders and she can actually draw a room and show
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_01: a client exactly how it's going to look,
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_01: the space, everything to scale, which is, again, that's that technology.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: You can actually see what that room is going to look like before it's built, which is amazing.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we didn't, that is one part of the business that has changed hugely in the last five years.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's only in the last five years we've been offering that to clients.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it is a lot of work, but it seals the deal.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people see it and they go, oh wow, that looks amazing.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what we want, which is great.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: I had someone in the same industry,
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_01: they said they had a new program for kitchens and They were worried that
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_01: the program looked so good that some of the images looked better than the kitchens
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_01: when they were built.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, wow,
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: this is because the program is showing all this lighting and things
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_01: that aren't actually in the home.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's something with our program, which is better.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_01: We can put the correct lighting and we can put the sun where it's meant to be.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so it's a lot more work and it is realistic.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's good.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_00: That makes a massive change.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_01: It makes a massive change, yeah.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a few opinions as an 18 year old that I probably don't hold true to anymore
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_00: and a few that I do.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back for you,
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_00: because when you left Invercargill at that age,
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_00: where you've got to now,
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_00: what things have dropped away or things that you believed back then
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_00: that you don't believe now or are things pretty consistent?
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think things are fairly consistent for me, um, yeah,
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe that there's much,
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_01: there's changed,
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_01: which is,
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm learning, but, um,
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: how I think, uh,
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe it has actually changed a lot,
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: how I live my life and how I think, um,
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I probably haven't grown up much.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good thing, I think.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Which I like, I'm quite happy with that.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm social,
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I like being out and about,
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_01: but my time out is skiing, the motorbike, those sort of things.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love my family and I have a partner who's got a wonderful family
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_01: and they're all really close and I love that.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_01: All that sort of thing means a lot to me.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any sort of advice that you'd want to give back to 18 year old Carmen and
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_00: then Invercargill at that point where you're struggling a little bit with school and
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_00: that town perhaps and what you've gone on to do.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything you'd look back and say,
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_00: be careful at this point,
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_00: or maybe don't do that thing,
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_00: or it's just like, no,
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_00: you go for it, girl, just,
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_00: it's all worked out okay,
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: and make those same mistakes again, or do exactly the same.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing that came into mind was,
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_01: don't get married and go to Europe on your OE, but anyway, we'll move on.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 18-year-old, I wish I'd gone overseas earlier.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably my only thing, my regret.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I really wish I'd travelled.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Why earlier?
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to go travelling and then I met a boyfriend and went to Christchurch
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_01: and I wish I'd travelled.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I had that experience when I was young.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I did went to Australia and Fiji and things like that, but I wish I'd gone overseas.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_01: On the European travel.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's good for young people to do that,
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_01: to experience the world and see different cultures and that sort of thing.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we can realise just how amazing it is here and come back here and appreciate it a bit more.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's right.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it is.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's 100% what it is.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I just...
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Getting out and about and trying different things,
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_01: doing different jobs and giving yourself the chance to don't get stuck
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_01: into something unless that's your passion.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I did fall into this business a wee bit and I think how lucky
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_01: because it is my passion, it is what I love.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I think a lot of people get a job and they stay in a job that they're not really
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_01: that happy with.
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, if you don't, just keep trying different things.
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because doing something you love is, I feel, really lucky.
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really important thing.