Latest / Have You Seen?! The Movie Podcast / Michael!

Transcript

Michael! · Have You Seen?! The Movie Podcast

• 0:14
  Joe: Welcome to Have You Seen the Movie Podcast, where every movie is the premiere.
• 0:19
  Dylan: This week we're doing something a little different.
• 0:21
  Dylan: Joe has seen Michael, and I have you not.
• 0:24
  Joe: So I'm walking Dylan through the movie.
• 0:27
  Joe: What works, what doesn't, and whether it lives up to the legacy.
• 0:31
  Dylan: If you enjoyed the show, make sure to follow it on your favorite podcast app and leave us a five-star rating.
• 0:36
  Dylan: It really helps the show grow.
• 0:37
  Joe: And we want to hear from you.
• 0:39
  Joe: Text us your name and movie suggestions using the link in the description.
• 0:43
  Dylan: This week's movie, My Goal, is Rate of PG 13 for thematic elements, some intense moments, and if that's not suitable for little ears, we hope you'll tune in next week.
• 0:52
  Dylan: Alright, get into it.
• 0:54
  Dylan: Alright, Joe.
• 0:55
  Dylan: Where do you want to start?
• 0:57
  Joe: Man, this is huge.
• 0:59
  Joe: Um this movie um took a couple of years to shoot.
• 1:10
  Joe: Um and partly because of getting rights to music and you know, there had been other uh kind of what ended up being B movies, like you know, two B movies or something.
• 1:24
  Joe: Oh, okay.
• 1:25
  Joe: Uh where an actor, there was a certain actor who signed up and was told we got the music, you know, we got everybody on board and blah blah blah.
• 1:37
  Joe: And then like midway everything fell fell out.
• 1:39
  Joe: Oh man.
• 1:40
  Joe: And they were already like half you know, midway through, so then he just had to continue doing it and it ended up being a disaster.
• 1:49
  Joe: Oh man.
• 1:50
  Joe: So this was cool because um uh Anton Fukua is a pretty well-known director.
• 2:01
  Joe: Okay.
• 2:02
  Joe: Um, yeah, so the biggest movie that he did kind of is you know what people refer to him as directing was Training Day with Denzel Washington, which is a pretty crazy movie.
• 2:16
  Joe: Um Tears of the Sun with uh uh Bruce Willis.
• 2:21
  Joe: Um King Arthur Shooter, uh Brooklyn's Finest, Olympus Has Fallen.
• 2:29
  Joe: So he had, you know, like quite a span of things to you know as far as directing.
• 2:36
  Joe: Yeah.
• 2:37
  Joe: Yeah.
• 2:38
  Joe: So it was I think basically the family picked him to do it, and he was interested and um you know, all the producers behind it kind of wanted him, so uh, you know, he went on to direct it.
• 2:54
  Dylan: Gotcha.
• 2:58
  Joe: Um I'll talk a little more about it, but I think most people going into it, if they're my age, um grew up watching the Jacksons.
• 3:09
  Joe: Um it's it was the Jacksons and American Dream uh came out in 1992.
• 3:17
  Joe: And this was a like I think it was a five-night uh like mini series that was shown on TV, and it went it goes from like the parents meeting for the first time all the way to like the final tour of the Jacksons.
• 3:38
  Joe: Oh really?
• 3:39
  Joe: Yeah, so it and it covered everything, so it was so good that um a lot of the actors went on to do some you know some great things, and I'll kind of go through that as we compare.
• 3:55
  Joe: Um and the the bar was just set for you know, there was two series that came out at that time.
• 4:04
  Joe: One was The Temptations, and the other one was The Jackson's American Dream.
• 4:08
  Joe: And like nobody had ever heard of a mini-series or a TV show doing so well.
• 4:16
  Joe: Like, like if it was on Netflix now, it would have been a hit.
• 4:19
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, you know.
• 4:21
  Joe: Um, but that's all we had was TV, you know, you know, um I don't know, comes on at seven and you stay up to watch the whole thing and wait for the next night, and yeah, you know, so right.
• 4:35
  Joe: Um, so that was I think expectation, like having that expect expectation, and and like that was the bar.
• 4:45
  Joe: So I think everybody expected a majority of that happening, like like almost a redo of that.
• 4:52
  Joe: Okay.
• 4:53
  Joe: I think some people were disappointed that it wasn't.
• 4:56
  Joe: Okay.
• 4:57
  Joe: But I felt like if it were the same people or the director or whatever, like it almost felt like a sequel to that.
• 5:09
  Dylan: Oh, yeah, okay.
• 5:10
  Joe: Because it really goes into his life and his struggles, and it's really focused on him rather than the whole Jackson family, you know, because uh there's Reeby and Janet, Janet Jackson, who didn't who weren't in this film uh because they didn't sign off on you know rights or whatever for their, you know, and then um I think it was Randy Jackson, not American Idol, but uh the brother um uh didn't sign off either.
• 5:53
  Joe: So like it's kind of interesting where it gets into certain situations and there's like uh there's a couple different people online who kind of mocked that.
• 6:03
  Joe: Like, yeah, you know, they'll be like, um I'm gonna go see Janet.
• 6:08
  Joe: Oh, wait a minute, she's not in this or something, you know.
• 6:11
  Joe: So it makes it a little difficult to tell um the whole story because you know Janet was pretty significant in you know Michael's life, and yeah, you know, because she was as he was becoming a great pop singer, she was becoming a great actress, and that was her main thing up until a certain point, and then she just like you know blew the doors off of pop music, yeah.
• 6:39
  Joe: Yeah, her original um choreographer was uh Paula Abdul.
• 6:46
  Joe: Um, and from that um from that Paul Abdul went went on to become you know Paul Abdul, you know, pop star.
• 6:57
  Joe: So um it's kind of who you know sometimes, but yeah, yeah.
• 7:03
  Dylan: All right.
• 7:03
  Dylan: So if you haven't seen it, Joe's gonna give us a quick setup.
• 7:07
  Joe: So basically, Michael follows um certain points in Michael's life um and highlights certain um successes in his career, yeah.
• 7:22
  Joe: Uh barriers that he had to go through, and um, you know, with whether it was be from family or record producers or any of that.
• 7:33
  Joe: Um, and so that that's pretty much where it's at, you know.
• 7:38
  Dylan: We kind of went over some like expectations that might have been had like going into it.
• 7:44
  Dylan: So what was your first reaction to it?
• 7:48
  Joe: Oh, you know, I remember saying the what was his name?
• 7:55
  Joe: What's his name?
• 7:56
  Joe: So the not the Priscilla movie, but the Elvis movie.
• 8:01
  Joe: Austin Butler was in that.
• 8:03
  Joe: Okay.
• 8:04
  Joe: Um, and that was a different take.
• 8:07
  Joe: That was Bas Lorman or whatever who did Romeo and Juliet and all that.
• 8:11
  Joe: Okay.
• 8:12
  Joe: But he's a crazy director.
• 8:14
  Joe: So I remember sitting in that theater crazy crazy director in a good way.
• 8:19
  Joe: Yeah, like he he's very artsy, okay.
• 8:22
  Joe: So he's not like a typical, yeah, like um he makes things a little different, you know.
• 8:28
  Joe: It's kind of like Rocket Man, right?
• 8:30
  Joe: The Elton John movie, where it's more of a musical and it's kind of there's a lot of different things happening, you know.
• 8:37
  Joe: Um with that, like when I when I went to see that Elvis movie, the music automatically just hit me and brought me into that place of like Elvis, yeah.
• 8:49
  Joe: And so right from the start when the credits started rolling, and you hear the first beats of want to be starting something, and you realize like it's live, and then that's kind of where they go into like this, they start off in with a concert, you know.
• 9:07
  Joe: Yeah, and it just it just like just hearing that music just brings you right into it.
• 9:12
  Joe: I guess they suppose you're right into it.
• 9:13
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:15
  Joe: And and so like, you know, they jump around and you know, they they start there and they they go to flashbacks and things, but gotcha.
• 9:25
  Joe: Um, and so that really gripped me just hearing the music and the live music and the live, you know, versions of things, and um uh Jafar sang some of the stuff, so they did a blend.
• 9:42
  Joe: Oh yeah, there was a movie called The Doors um with Val Kilmer uh in the 80s, and that was like one of the few movies that have done that where they've blended the live actor with the you know, and with that movie, The Doors in particular.
• 9:59
  Joe: Gave it to the director and was like, Okay, if you can't tell which one is which, then you need to hire me.
• 10:13
  Joe: And he couldn't tell.
• 10:14
  Joe: He was like, Okay, what is kind of the same thing with like Jafar Jackson is Jermaine Jackson's uh son.
• 10:25
  Joe: Okay, Jermaine Jackson is Michael's brother, and Jermaine, you know, was like to his left for years, you know, because they all lined up in a certain way, and he was always next to him.
• 10:37
  Joe: So he he knew every move, he he could help with that.
• 10:40
  Joe: But there's also the choreographers that he worked with that Michael worked with that worked with Jafar.
• 10:45
  Joe: And so you just you're just there.
• 10:49
  Joe: So yeah, I think like with having um American Dream as that expectation, um, and then getting that movie for me, I felt like it was great.
• 11:05
  Joe: I felt like it was right there.
• 11:07
  Joe: Yeah.
• 11:07
  Joe: Um, they're already talking about a sequel.
• 11:09
  Joe: Oh, really?
• 11:10
  Joe: Yeah, they've re-released it on uh IMAX recently.
• 11:14
  Joe: Um and so it's kind of one of those movies that is kind of was kind of an underdog.
• 11:20
  Joe: Um, you know, they didn't touch on controversy partly because um there was some legalities that they couldn't touch on that.
• 11:32
  Joe: Right.
• 11:32
  Joe: So a lot of people were mad about that, but it's like I didn't really need to see that.
• 11:37
  Dylan: Right now, like some people just want the drama though, yeah.
• 11:40
  Joe: Right.
• 11:41
  Joe: I I really feel like you know, he's somebody to be celebrated at this point.
• 11:48
  Joe: I mean he's dead, you know.
• 11:51
  Joe: Yeah, but or some say I still walk into the street.
• 11:58
  Dylan: All right, so let's talk about the performances.
• 12:02
  Joe: Yeah.
• 12:02
  Dylan: Um, so who who played Michael Jackson?
• 12:06
  Joe: So Michael Jackson was played by by Jafar Jackson.
• 12:10
  Dylan: Okay.
• 12:11
  Joe: Um going back to American Dream, there were two standouts um from that that played Michael.
• 12:18
  Joe: Um one of them was Jason Weaver, and the other one was Wiley Draper.
• 12:24
  Joe: Um, Wiley Draper was a backup dancer for Michael Jackson, so he was like hand picked by Michael.
• 12:33
  Joe: So you have that bar, and then uh Jason Weaver was handpicked by Michael Jackson.
• 12:40
  Joe: Like they did auditions, and then he was like, you know, saw a couple of you know, a couple of them live, yeah, and then picked him.
• 12:49
  Dylan: Wow.
• 12:50
  Joe: And then the awesome thing about Jason Weaver is while he was filming um one of the live sequences, something happened with a with a backtrack tape where he had to sing live for the day.
• 13:03
  Joe: Oh um, and it was like uh I think it was an ABC production, and they're kind of kind of go hand in hand with Disney.
• 13:12
  Joe: So there were some Disney executives in that room at that time when they were filming.
• 13:17
  Joe: So he got a call later for an audition for a lion movie, a movie about an African lion.
• 13:25
  Joe: That ended up being the Lion King, yeah, and he got based off of that filming, just from that performance, he got the voice of uh Simba um in The Lion King.
• 13:39
  Joe: Wow, yeah, so it was like, and then you know, his career kind of went from there, but he was a standout, and so going back with Jafar, like you know, I think I mean he can he can do he can do anything right now, you know, like he did such a good job with the voice, with you know, the makeup crew obviously did a lot because Michael Jackson has multiple phases of you know nose surgery and different looks and and things like that.
• 14:11
  Joe: And I remember being a kid, and it was like close to midnight, and uh not to quote thriller correctly, um, but my mom comes into the room to wake my brother up, and I was half asleep, and the minute she said Michael Jackson, I woke up.
• 14:34
  Joe: Oh yeah, and they're like, no, no, no, you know, go back to bed.
• 14:37
  Joe: I'm like, well, Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson, you know.
• 14:40
  Joe: So we go into the to the living room and we watch the debut of the thriller video.
• 14:47
  Dylan: Oh, really?
• 14:50
  Joe: Wow, because it was like it was on MTV, it was like a world premiere, yeah, and you just it was that whole 12-minute thing, and you know, I I remember I couldn't go to sleep.
• 15:02
  Joe: I was so I was like crying and scared, and at the same time it was Michael Jackson, so it was like you know, I was all over the place, and you know, the the scenes where he's doing Beat It or he's doing Thriller, I'm like, he just brings it, you know, yeah, yeah.
• 15:20
  Joe: He just brought it so so much, and he was such a great great choice for that.
• 15:29
  Dylan: So like watching it, uh, would you say that it like that it felt real, that it felt like it was the real Michael?
• 15:38
  Joe: Yeah, there were certain points where I don't think the trailers did it justice.
• 15:43
  Joe: I think like there's a certain amount of like um I'm I think even on home TVs or or phones, there's like a certain quality that doesn't come through that that does in the theater.
• 15:56
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 15:57
  Joe: And when you're sitting there for, you know, a couple hours, you you you start to like because of the acting, you start to lose like the that these are actors because they're doing so good that it's just you know uh it you're just convinced, but the makeup was amazing, yeah.
• 16:21
  Joe: And there was just certain angles where like you kind of do a double take because it was like there's a certain angle he looked exactly like him, yeah.
• 16:31
  Joe: Yeah, wow, and he just he just his whole persona was just there.
• 16:35
  Joe: Is so wow.
• 16:37
  Joe: Some of the other actors in it.
• 16:39
  Joe: Um, I'll do like a quick uh there was uh Giuliano Valdi who played the young Michael.
• 16:46
  Joe: I think he he, you know, between him and Jason Weaver, I think they both bought it, you know, both brought it, you know, like yeah, because he was just they did recreations of auditions and um uh recreations of their first gigs and like all that, and you could tell when it's live singing and everything, and if he was just right there, you know, just yeah, the the dancing, the everything, and I think like uh if there's a sequel, I think they can bring him back and do other flashbacks with you know, yeah, yeah, it'd be awesome.
• 17:22
  Joe: Um so an interesting one is Nia Long uh played Catherine Jackson, okay, Michael's mom.
• 17:30
  Joe: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Joe: So in the original American Dream, uh Angela Bassett was picked by Michael to play um his mom because he was like, You're you're really beautiful, and my mom is beautiful, and I want you to play her.
• 17:50
  Joe: And like she was on soap operas at the time, and she was just coming up, like she had filmed some movies that were about to like blow up, yeah.
• 17:58
  Joe: And so she just does this TV movie, and she brought it, she killed it.
• 18:03
  Joe: Funny thing is that she was in a movie called Boys in the Hood, and there's a character named Trey in it.
• 18:12
  Joe: So Trey, uh, so she plays Trey's mom.
• 18:18
  Joe: Trey's girlfriend in that movie was Nia Long.
• 18:23
  Joe: So it was kind of like passing the torch.
• 18:26
  Joe: Okay, you know, it's just kind of an interesting kind of cross-section of acting because it's almost like she took over that role, you know.
• 18:35
  Joe: Yeah.
• 18:36
  Joe: So um the other uh kind of standout I would say in some ways he plays the antagonist in the movie.
• 18:47
  Joe: Just like you know, most movies kind of need that.
• 18:50
  Joe: Right.
• 18:50
  Joe: And it was a different biopic, you know, it was different than the typical, like, like, you know, what what what's in my heart is La Bamba.
• 19:01
  Joe: But uh, you know, La Bamba walk the line, all these other ones.
• 19:06
  Joe: It it had it had its characters of like, you know, he had obstacles, and there were people who were in his way, and he were he was finding ways around it or over it or to get through it.
• 19:20
  Joe: Um but uh their father, Joe Jackson, was known for hitting them and you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 19:29
  Joe: Yeah.
• 19:30
  Joe: Um, and so uh uh Coleman Domingo plays Joe Jackson in this one.
• 19:36
  Joe: Okay, and again, with having that bar from American Dream, he really brought that to like you almost like there was one other actor who did this for me.
• 19:47
  Joe: Um he he plays Michael Weston, uh Jeffrey Donovan.
• 19:53
  Joe: He plays Michael Weston in um Burnotis.
• 19:56
  Joe: I had seen a movie with him in it called Changeling, and I hated him so much that I didn't want to watch Burn Notice for a long time because I was like, I hate that guy, you know.
• 20:08
  Joe: But but you realize like you hate the character, not the right actor, you know.
• 20:13
  Joe: So it's like he did such a good job, like you wanted to hate him.
• 20:17
  Joe: You just wanted to like uh, you know, because it it just yeah, he did such a good job.
• 20:25
  Joe: Um a couple other people like just stand out for me, um, that you don't hear about Larren's Tate.
• 20:34
  Joe: Um, he's he's kind of you know known for all kinds of different movies.
• 20:40
  Joe: Um he was in Dead Presidents, um, Ray.
• 20:45
  Joe: Um he was Barry Gordy, and Barry Gordy was kind of a father figure to you know, it seemed like Michael had different father figures, but he really showed him uh about the art of music and recording and and how to get your vocals right.
• 21:03
  Joe: And yeah, Barry Gordy was the um basically the creator of Motown, you know, and so he he came from a Detroit car company, decided to make a music company, got a house with a basement, started recording down in there with egg crates as the Sound Dampany.
• 21:23
  Joe: And uh, and you hear all those hits, like if you listen to the older ones, there's a lot of distortion because they would only have four tracks at the time, and so they would record live like the the main track would be live, and so the mics were just getting hit so hard with the volume.
• 21:44
  Joe: So but that was his ha that was like basically came from him.
• 21:50
  Joe: Um and yeah, he just did a real great job with with that character.
• 21:56
  Joe: Um another standout uh In this movie that wasn't an American dream is a guy named Bill Bray.
• 22:05
  Joe: And he was Michael Jackson's bodyguard.
• 22:09
  Joe: Okay.
• 22:09
  Joe: Um, and the cool thing about it is spoilers are coming.
• 22:14
  Joe: Um Joe hires Bill Bray to protect him, and he says, protect him no matter what.
• 22:22
  Joe: Like, you know, uh protect him from himself or whatever.
• 22:27
  Joe: Like just, you know, this is your job now.
• 22:29
  Joe: So he like took that on.
• 22:31
  Joe: And so from being uh 10 years old, Michael Jackson was 10, and all the way up till when he died, he was with him.
• 22:40
  Joe: Wow.
• 22:41
  Joe: And so um, there's a point where uh Michael decides to leave uh his brothers because they you know, Joe's trying to put this huge tour together, and Michael didn't want to do it, but he felt guilty.
• 22:57
  Joe: And so um, when he's on stage, he announces that that's his last show and the end of the tour, and everybody's like, What's going on?
• 23:05
  Joe: And so, and so um there's a scene where Michael's walking back behind stage, and Joe kind of starts to get into face, and Bill stands up and protects him from Joe.
• 23:19
  Joe: And he's like, That's enough, Joe, you know, and that's it.
• 23:23
  Joe: It's like it was so cool.
• 23:25
  Joe: Like the way everything built up to that was just nice.
• 23:30
  Joe: Like, well, he protected him.
• 23:32
  Joe: Yeah, right.
• 23:34
  Dylan: So that's great, yeah.
• 23:37
  Dylan: So I guess we should probably talk about the music.
• 23:44
  Dylan: Yeah, wisdom part of it, right?
• 23:46
  Joe: Yeah, a couple great songs in there, right?
• 23:50
  Dylan: I feel like a big thing with La Bamba is how the music is used, how the songs are used you know, in it.
• 23:59
  Dylan: Yeah, just to really push kind of the emotional impact of it.
• 24:04
  Joe: Yeah.
• 24:05
  Dylan: So how did like Michael compare?
• 24:07
  Joe: Yeah, it was it was pretty cool because you know, they they did kind of, you know, there were certain songs that the Jackson Five played that weren't like written until they were with Motown.
• 24:22
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 24:22
  Joe: And so it was kind of a little weird with that, but um the real point that people it seemed like other reviewers missed was the creative writing process.
• 24:35
  Joe: Like they actually went through points where you know he would come up with lyrics or write things down, and he had a notebook where he'd write everything down, and so you got to see kind of the mind of of a songwriter more than just the performer or the artist artistry of of performance, yeah.
• 24:59
  Joe: It was more of the behind the scenes, and uh they show Quincy Jones, who's you know, he produced uh Fresh Prince of Bel Air, and but he worked with uh Ray Charles and he had been a producer on different records and stuff.
• 25:14
  Joe: And even when he went to work with Michael, people are like, Well, we're not doing jazz albums, like why are you here?
• 25:21
  Joe: And he's like, Well, you know, I'll show you, you know, and so even uh, you know, they start off with with his first album Off the Wall, and there's a famous story that uh, you know, Michael Jackson did demos at home, uh, and you can actually hear it on there's like a reissue of Off the Wall, and you can hear like the brothers and Janet and like playing little different instruments in the back, and then he's singing along, and it's just so that he can get the demo out.
• 25:54
  Joe: Yeah.
• 25:55
  Joe: Um, but there's a part on um Don't Stop Till You Get Enough, which is the first track.
• 26:01
  Joe: It's like it's it's kind of like what opens the doors to this is Michael's solo career, yeah.
• 26:09
  Joe: And so he has that rhythm going, dun dun, dun dun, dun.
• 26:13
  Joe: And Quincy wrote a part, uh violin part over it, and it's like oh yeah, you know, so um the thing about it at that time was it was just on the edge of disco dying, you know.
• 26:29
  Joe: There's even a song on that album called Burn This Disco Out, and there's a couple other ones that you know were really disco, you know, for the time.
• 26:39
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 26:40
  Joe: And so a key, like if you ever listen to disco in that genre, uh, a key thing is is violins.
• 26:48
  Joe: There's some reason, I don't know why, but there's like string work in a lot of the disco songs.
• 26:54
  Joe: Um, but anyway, he decided to put that uh melody in the at the beginning, and Michael Jackson didn't like it, and he was like, you know, it's gonna throw off the groove and blah blah blah.
• 27:06
  Joe: Oh really?
• 27:06
  Joe: And that ended up being like the the biggest part of that song.
• 27:10
  Joe: It's like the once you hear that first you hear the bass, dun dun, and then that starts it, and then everything comes in, and then that violin just hits, and it's just like, yeah, that's this song, you know.
• 27:24
  Joe: Um and so Quincy really had a way of working with him to get the best out of him, yeah.
• 27:33
  Joe: You know, that's like what what a music producer does is they get the best out of the artist and they come up with ideas and collaborate, and and so he was just able to do that, and they show some of that in you know, um, in the movie, so it's really cool.
• 27:51
  Joe: Yeah, there's also it's kind of cool the way they do it too, because as they do performances, like I don't know, I felt like there was a good story there.
• 28:05
  Joe: I felt like you know, and and some people were like, Oh, it's it was just like watching a whole music video for two hours or something.
• 28:12
  Joe: It kind of was, but if you grew up in MTV generation, like whatever watching videos, like yeah, it it was that, but it wasn't, you know, like there was a story, but it was almost like when he would have a success, there would be the concert to show that kind of celebration or something like that.
• 28:36
  Joe: Oh, okay, yeah.
• 28:37
  Joe: So it it really I felt like the music really drove the story in that way.
• 28:42
  Joe: Um you know, coming up with songs um and things like that.
• 28:49
  Joe: Like they go through writing thriller, and they kind of it's kind of a montage, but they have the different songs in, you know, from thriller in in the montage, and they show a certain point where they're doing Beat It and they're working on the video.
• 29:07
  Joe: And what's kind of cool is he actually he was watching the news and um he had saw that there was a lot of gang violence going on, and there's two specific uh gangs in at that time that he wanted to get them to come to peace, and so when he went to film the beat it video, they were invited to come and dance and be part of the video, huh?
• 29:38
  Joe: And so like it's funny because people are like pointing people other dancers out in the in the video now, like because you know everything's high def and you can see more stuff, and like, oh, why was he there?
• 29:51
  Joe: Or like that guy can't dance or whatever.
• 29:53
  Joe: It's because like there's actual gang members dancing in the gang scene, you know.
• 30:00
  Joe: It's kind of throwback to like with Rebel Without a Cause, they hired a you know, a gang member to be a part of it, so they just hired those guys to dance, and you know, breakdancing and all that stuff was was uh you know hip at the time.
• 30:15
  Joe: And so they just got people off the street, you know.
• 30:19
  Joe: They really had a dance battle.
• 30:20
  Joe: They did.
• 30:21
  Joe: All of West Side story.
• 30:24
  Joe: Uh-huh.
• 30:27
  Dylan: So what songs out of this would you say just hit hardest?
• 30:31
  Joe: I think Don't Stop Till You Get Enough because they really go over that with uh you know when they're recording it and that's his first breakout kind of thing.
• 30:41
  Joe: Um Wanna Be Starting Something was was uh was uh you know, again, starting with that, it it just brought you to it.
• 30:55
  Joe: It's I think for me that was the biggest one.
• 30:58
  Joe: One of the cool songs um that they did with the Jacksons was This Place Hotel.
• 31:03
  Joe: Uh it's also known as Heartbreak Hotel, but not like the office one.
• 31:07
  Joe: And it's kind of a like it was a single, I think, but it's not as well known.
• 31:15
  Joe: But it's a really cool song, and so they perform it live, uh, you know, because they he gets to the point where they're doing the victory tour together and they're you know doing all that, and so they do that song, and it's it's really cool.
• 31:27
  Joe: There's just some cool vibes with it.
• 31:30
  Joe: Um I made my own personal Michael Jackson playlist um even before I I went to see it because I was like, these are all my favorites, um, just to get kind of back into it and just to hear a couple of those songs, like you know, and of course Thriller, you know, and Beat It and you know.
• 31:53
  Dylan: Alright, so let's talk about how the story is told because I feel like there's a lot of different ways that you could, you know, kind of go about making the story.
• 32:05
  Dylan: So, like, how did you feel that like the structure of the story was?
• 32:15
  Joe: Um I remember um when Pulp Fiction came out, people didn't know what to make of it because it was a nonlinear film.
• 32:24
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 32:25
  Joe: And with this, um it does flashbacks and things.
• 32:30
  Joe: It tells you where you're at, you know.
• 32:33
  Joe: Um and you can kind of deduce it anyway, but you know, with the flashbacks, it's not in a necessarily in a chronological order, but and I think that's what has thrown people off.
• 32:45
  Joe: But I felt like you just have to tell stories differently.
• 32:50
  Joe: Yeah, it can't all be the same, right?
• 32:53
  Joe: And I that's part of why uh Pulp Fiction and even Quentin Tarantino movies are a success, is because they're not that linear, like you just you know, here it is.
• 33:05
  Joe: Uh and so again, like with not having the allegations in there, people are like, Whoa, they didn't talk about anything, you know.
• 33:13
  Joe: It's like, well, we didn't need we didn't need to, and we didn't even get to that point, you know, like they stopped it before any of that.
• 33:20
  Joe: Yeah.
• 33:21
  Joe: Um and like, you know, some of the things they did cover in more detail that I that I enjoyed was so Joe Jackson um kind of manipulated him into doing a tour with his brothers.
• 33:41
  Joe: It was kind of a, you know, don't you care about your brothers, like you're a success now, like all this kind of stuff.
• 33:47
  Joe: Right.
• 33:47
  Joe: So family.
• 33:49
  Joe: Yeah, family.
• 33:50
  Joe: Family.
• 33:53
  Joe: Um, and so yeah, so he ended up doing a Pepsi commercial.
• 34:02
  Joe: Uh at on that Pepsi commercial, uh, he was there were some pyrotechnics that ended up like scorching his hair but burning his scalp.
• 34:13
  Joe: Yeah.
• 34:14
  Joe: And so he ends up going to the hospital.
• 34:16
  Joe: And like in the in the other American dream, they didn't portray that accurately.
• 34:22
  Joe: Like they had him rolling down the stairs and like all this stuff where actually in all actuality, if you see the real video, Michael Jackson was such a performer that he did like he danced down, did a spin, and then couldn't take it anymore.
• 34:40
  Joe: And then people came and and you know, doused him and you know, got it down.
• 34:44
  Joe: But it was like he was trying to finish the shot, right?
• 34:47
  Dylan: He was pushing it through.
• 34:48
  Joe: Yeah, the only other person I've heard of doing that is like Tom Cruise.
• 34:52
  Joe: Like he's broken, like he broke his ankle on Mission Impossible and just kept going.
• 34:56
  Joe: Yeah, you know, it's like we need to get the shot, you know.
• 34:58
  Joe: Right.
• 34:59
  Joe: So to see that, and they actually kind of show some of that in the movie, like just that that drive, you know.
• 35:07
  Joe: And so then he uses the opportunity to um reach out to kids because he ends up in a in a burn uh unit, and so uh rather than just laying around the whole time, he reaches out to kids and you know, talks to them and gets them stuff, and you know, so it's like you know, he really uh yeah, he just he just really uh it just really shows his kind of you know love and and all that kind of stuff, you know, in the hospital and yeah, you know, rather than recovering and sulking and you know, he's doing something good, you know.
• 35:47
  Joe: So that was really cool.
• 35:49
  Joe: Um the other standout moment for me was uh things that you don't think about in the 80s that were still going on, and it wasn't forced or anything, but there was like a point where uh they so MTV was brand new, and it was generally run by the you know record producers and companies and things like that, so there was a certain amount of like give and take, and they wouldn't play black artists, and the biggest thing about Michael was that he didn't want to just be a black artist, he didn't want to just be hip-hop, he wanted to cross over, um, and in particular with the move uh with the uh song Beat It, um, they had Eddie Van Halen come in and do you know, Eddie Van Halen at that time, you know, Van Halen was huge, and so uh he they called him and asked him to come over and do something, and you know, he never really did anything aside from the band, so it was like a rare moment in music history.
• 37:08
  Joe: Um, and he did that, and that song was such a crossover song, like it it it's more in the rock genre than it is anything else, you know.
• 37:18
  Joe: Um and so the big thing about that was there's a scene where basically MTV didn't want to play black artists, and the producer just says, you know, if you don't if you don't get him on by tonight, I'm pulling all my other artists.
• 37:34
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:35
  Joe: So it was like it was really cool to see that because you don't hear about that with especially with Michael Jackson, you just think, oh, it was pretty easy to go in there and do his thing, and it's like, no, there was obstacles there too, you know.
• 37:49
  Joe: Um, so that that was a good moment that was covered.
• 37:55
  Dylan: All right, so what's some of your favorite moments from the movie?
• 37:59
  Joe: Yeah, um, I love seeing the Jacksons perform because the you know, especially the kids were just they just had it down, you know, for just being so young, it was like, man, that's cool.
• 38:10
  Joe: Um yeah, when I was a kid I I had hoped to be like that.
• 38:16
  Joe: Um and let's see.
• 38:22
  Joe: Yeah, I think the moment when he walks away and Bill steps out, yeah.
• 38:34
  Joe: Um the moment where you know he he gets past uh the barriers of not being played on MTV, um the beat it scene, the thriller scene.
• 38:49
  Joe: The cool thing about the thriller scene is they show you know the making of it, and so you get to see behind the cameras and things, and um uh so yeah, there's some cool, cool moments there, and and of course when he's singing with the Jacksons, there's more performances and things, so it you don't just feel like it's just a quick song and then you know it gets cut or whatever.
• 39:15
  Dylan: Right.
• 39:15
  Dylan: So, how would you say that this movie handled Michael Jackson's legacy?
• 39:21
  Joe: Yeah.
• 39:21
  Joe: Um I think I think it handled it pretty well.
• 39:25
  Joe: Um, you know, not everything it you know, it's this whole biopic thing of is it a documentary or is it a movie or is it, you know, like like what are they trying to do?
• 39:40
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 39:40
  Joe: Um, you know, yeah, there's some fictional things on there.
• 39:44
  Joe: Um, you know, like random things like Bubbles wasn't uh Bubbles, his pet monkey, wasn't adopted until like 85 and they show it in 82.
• 39:55
  Joe: And so like people were up in arms about it.
• 39:57
  Joe: It's like, so what?
• 39:58
  Joe: Like that's insignificant, you know.
• 40:01
  Joe: Um there's some interesting moments because it just shows his character and like how he was as a you know, he was an older man, but he didn't have a childhood, yeah.
• 40:13
  Joe: And so as he grew older, he still wanted that, you know.
• 40:17
  Joe: Um, you can tell from my room that uh um but there's this funny moment where he he got he goes and buys Twister and he asks his brothers to play, and they're like, no, like we're going on dates and we're going to do this stuff.
• 40:32
  Joe: He's like, come on, I just want to play Twister.
• 40:35
  Joe: So that was a funny moment, you know, like just to kind of portray that.
• 40:39
  Dylan: Um Yeah, would you say that it feels complete?
• 40:47
  Joe: Um, no.
• 40:48
  Joe: Uh there's definitely room for a sequel.
• 40:52
  Joe: Okay.
• 40:52
  Joe: Um my I've kind of gone on some other like uh people reviewing it and have said like this could happen, you know.
• 41:03
  Joe: What what I would dream of this happening with the sequel is that they would do more flashback scenes, and that could open like if for some reason Janet Jackson decided to, you know, be a part of it, yeah, they could do flashbacks with her, and you know, even end up being like going from Michael II to Janet's own movie, you know.
• 41:28
  Joe: I mean she was like dead poets aside or poetic just poetic justice with uh um Tupac, you know, like I mean she just did so much and she's a legend.
• 41:40
  Joe: It's like how how do you leave that out?
• 41:42
  Joe: So there's a little bit of disappointment with that.
• 41:46
  Joe: Um but overall, um yeah, overall it kind of yeah, it it did well.
• 41:56
  Joe: I think it I think it covered a lot.
• 41:58
  Joe: It you know, it was only two hours, and I think comparing it to uh the American Dream one, that's like five hours.
• 42:06
  Joe: So it's like two DVD discs, you know, and like so it's really not fair in some ways to compare that.
• 42:16
  Joe: Yeah, uh, I mean they had uh an Oscar, you know, nominated actress on that show, and that they didn't even know it, you know.
• 42:26
  Joe: So um, but yeah, and and I again with the with the actors that that just rocked, um, it it's like so what I would think would be with the sequel is that they could do flashbacks, they could bring back the same actors, yeah.
• 42:43
  Joe: Uh the younger Michael, and they could show other scenes and things like that.
• 42:48
  Joe: So I feel like there's room for a sequel, yeah.
• 42:51
  Joe: And where they end it is kind of at the bad era.
• 42:54
  Joe: Um so that was the album after thriller.
• 42:59
  Joe: And so there's so many other albums to go through.
• 43:03
  Joe: Um there's like even Captain EO, which is a Disney favorite, one of my favorite movies uh or shows, whatever you call it at the theme park, was Captain Eo, and I remember always like just going to see that and um and just like walking out with with Michael Jackson music in my head, yeah.
• 43:32
  Dylan: Just bobbing.
• 43:32
  Joe: Yeah, just bobbing.
• 43:34
  Joe: So uh it would be cool if they did that.
• 43:37
  Joe: It would be cool if they, you know, apparently Captain Eo's canon to Star Wars, so yeah.
• 43:45
  Joe: But uh, so that would be cool to even see Jafar go on to become the next Captain EO.
• 43:53
  Joe: One could hope.
• 43:56
  Joe: I have dreams too.
• 44:00
  Dylan: All right, Joe.
• 44:01
  Dylan: Final thoughts as we wrap up.
• 44:04
  Joe: Yeah.
• 44:04
  Joe: Um I I really liked it.
• 44:07
  Joe: I want to go see it again.
• 44:08
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 44:09
  Joe: Um, it's been a while, so I was hoping to see it before we we recorded this.
• 44:13
  Joe: Oh, but uh yeah, I just I you know I've already pre-ordered it.
• 44:18
  Joe: Did you?
• 44:19
  Joe: Yeah.
• 44:20
  Joe: Both my aunt and my mom tried to get me popcorn buckets, but to no success.
• 44:26
  Joe: Yeah.
• 44:26
  Joe: Oh man.
• 44:27
  Joe: I was so disappointed with that.
• 44:29
  Joe: Yeah.
• 44:29
  Joe: Yeah, I've just been such a Michael Jackson fan all my life that it just kind of re reignited that.
• 44:36
  Joe: Like just because just the artistry, the people behind it, you know, whether it be Barry Gordy or Quincy Quincy Jones, those guys have their own stories that are just amazing.
• 44:48
  Joe: And um, and so it just brings back that that you know, artistry even in me to record my own music and get that stuff out, and you know, just try to pursue that more.
• 45:00
  Joe: And so it just yeah, it really, it really struck me.
• 45:04
  Joe: Uh, remember texting my aunt, like, hey, I saw it, and we're just back and forth, like, yeah, so great.
• 45:11
  Joe: Yeah.
• 45:11
  Joe: My uncle is a huge Michael Jackson fan.
• 45:14
  Joe: Yeah.
• 45:14
  Joe: Runs in the family.
• 45:16
  Joe: It does.
• 45:19
  Dylan: So, based on everything that we've talked about, would you say I have to go see this?
• 45:26
  Joe: I think so.
• 45:27
  Joe: I know you're not a fan of Michael Jackson or his music, but but I I think it's a it's a great movie.
• 45:34
  Joe: Like, there's just there's just key moments in there that that are just so great.
• 45:38
  Joe: Like these actors just bring it, and um, you know, just everybody who's in it just really did a great job.
• 45:46
  Joe: Mike Myers uh does a cameo in it, kind of like the uh Bohemian Rhapsody, yeah.
• 45:54
  Joe: Where he plays a record producer, but uh and so that even seeing Mike Myers in it for you know however many minutes he's in it uh was was kind of cool.
• 46:06
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 46:07
  Joe: Yeah.
• 46:09
  Dylan: Alright, Joe.
• 46:10
  Dylan: So what rating would you give this movie?
• 46:16
  Joe: Man, I think 7.5.
• 46:19
  Dylan: What's up with the point five?
• 46:21
  Dylan: Okay, it's an eight.
• 46:22
  Dylan: Okay.
• 46:26
  Joe: Yeah, I I what the moment I hear don't stop till you get enough, or the mo no, the moment I hear um you want to be starting something, that just gets me pumped.
• 46:39
  Joe: Like I remember the Monday morning after I seen it, I turned that on on the way my way to work.
• 46:45
  Joe: It was just like I was pumped.
• 46:48
  Joe: So yeah, this is a Wolf Credit Studio production.
• 47:16
  Joe: So, Dylan, yeah, are we going to th the theater after this or what?
• 47:21
  Dylan: Oh