Latest / Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas / Isha Bhatia Sanan on How Parents Can Talk to Kids About Sex, Puberty & Periods

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Isha Bhatia Sanan on How Parents Can Talk to Kids About Sex, Puberty & Periods · Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I think so much of the work is for adults
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: to overcome their shame so that they can impart scientifically accurate,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: non judgmental, shamefree sex head to young people.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Sex It for me doesn't mean this is what a
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: girl is like, this is what a boy is like.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: You come together, you make babies and okay questions.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: It feels like you and your daughter trust each other. Yeah,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: And I think unfortunately, especially in Indian homes, often parents
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and kids don't trust each other on these things.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I told her, very honestly, I said, give me some time.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I need to think how to talk to you. And
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: she's like, okay, fair, and you won't believe what I did.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: What did you do?
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: I made a PowerPoint presentation.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: About menstruation.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, oh, I love that, and it feels gone. It's
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: not that monster anymore.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Love Matters. I'm Lisa Mangel Das
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: and today we're talking about a topic that can often
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: feel awkward but is in fact extremely important, talking to
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: your kids about sex, puberty and the body. And to
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: do that with me is Ishavatiya Sanan, senior editor at DW
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Hindi and the host of a show called Bashamiesha that's
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: back in its new season as bayback. Issha Issha is
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: so good to have you. How are you?
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: I'm good, Thank you so much for the lovely introduction.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me. And I know that you hosted
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: a show called Sahut Talks. Yes, that was all about
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: taboo health topics. Did that prepare you to bring some
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: of these conversations home? Because I also know you're a
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: parent or a nine year old.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, so when I did say hook talk, it was
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: basically about.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: My experiences, my experiences.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: With my mother when I was a teenager, and I
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: thought maybe the kind of experiences I have had, others
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: would have had the same, And I started explaining things
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: the way I would have wanted someone to explain them
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: And so yes, when at.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Home when I had to have the first conversations, it
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: was it had kind of prepared me. But still to
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: think of it, you know, the YouTube content that I've
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: made was kind of for adults and not for kids.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And my child is a pre teen, it's not even
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: a teen, so I had to change the storytelling in
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: a way. So I had to think about it how
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: to talk to a child and then rephrase things. But
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've never done those, you know, those stories
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: where I don't know a birdie brings in something.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: We've never done that at home.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: We're not lying to our kids. I like that, not
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: at all. There's age appropriate ways right all through the
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: course of a child's sort of evolution, you can bring
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: up this conversation in different ways. And I'm curious, like
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: when did you first bring up the conversation and what
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: did you say? Like where do parents begin? So many
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: parents have that question, and how do we even start?
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: So you begin with the first words, I would say.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: You know, for a certain age, for ten years or
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: twelve years, you don't talk to them, and then all
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: of a sudden you have to have the conversation. And
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: that's when you have to prepare yourself that that's when
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: kids are reluctant talking to you about it. But if
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: you prepare them since the beginning, you know, it's like Mama, papa, baby,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: and then you talk about body parts.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: It's isn't that a game where you say where are you? Years?
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: And they touch eyes, they touch knows, they touch That's
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: how they learn words. And that's when you tell them
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: hands feet, and you can tell them other names as well.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to say shame, shame what
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: you normally say, so don't attach.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Shame to anything. I mean, like in German, for going.
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  Speaker 2: To the toilet, you say pepcaca, which is a cute word,
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  Speaker 2: but then at the same time you also tell them
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: that pepcaca other baby words, but this is what it
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: actually is, going to the toilet. You know, a sentence
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  Speaker 2: is formed like that. Similarly, when they have these these
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: books with these you know, you open a window, so
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: parts of body and body organs, right, those flip. So
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: you open the stomach and then it says interstein. Then
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: you open the chairs, it says heart, and then you
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: open down there and it says boy penis and girl
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: vulvar or a vagina. Many times it says you know,
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  Speaker 2: people confuse them too, So if in the beginning they've
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: learnt words like that, then they're not ashamed or they're
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: not confused about having a conversation because they've asked you questions,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: you've answered them, your expressions didn't change. It wasn't like, oh,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't that. So they do see it
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  Speaker 2: on your face. They feel the discomfort if you make
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: them uncomfortable, they will not be comfortable asking you questions.
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  Speaker 2: So I think it's always like make it just normal
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: at home that kids can talk to you, and then
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: you don't read the conversation.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I feel like even in the work that I
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: do online, that's so much of the goal is just
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: to make it feel normal. It's like talking about the
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: weather or a recipe or something you shouldn't you rid
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: sex of some of its stigma and power by just
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: talking about it like it's any other part of life.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: And I think parents struggle with that, like you have
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  Speaker 1: to unpack your own discomfort and shame in order to
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: do that effectively. Do you have any tips for parents,
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  Speaker 1: because I think even more than the kid, the kid
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: might not even have they haven't learnt the shame yet, right,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: How does a parent let go of their shame? What
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: was your conversation with your parents like about sex? How
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: would you say that's evolved if.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: There wasn't any conversation.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I remember when I got my first period and i'd
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: heard a little bit about it in school, but I
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: didn't really know what it meant. And I told my
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: mother that I spotted blood when I went to the
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: toilet and she said, you know, she was kind of
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: shocked because she wasn't prepared for it. I think I
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: was a little too young at that time. And she
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: said she gave me like a cotton thing. It wasn't
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: a sanitary pad. And she said things, remember the date,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: don't go to the temple, don't touch the pickle. I mean,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: just look at the priorities. Remember the date. Okay, why
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  Speaker 2: do I need to remember the date? Nobody explained it
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: to me. It was like, what does temple and pickle
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  Speaker 2: I've got to do with it? So I didn't have
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  Speaker 2: any conversation at home. It was learning as you grew up.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you would ask a question, sometimes you would get
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: an answer. But now I realize when I look back,
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  Speaker 2: she did not have answers herself. She could not have
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: given me answers because she herself knew only so much.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: And that's conditioning, because that's what you've been told. And
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  Speaker 2: she never tried to check whether you know, not having
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: a pickle is bad for the pickle or is.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: It bad for me?
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I do understand the logic someone might have
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: made up back then that it's too spicy for you.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe your gut is at the moment, it's not functioning normally,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: So have a lighter meal. You're already having a stomach agge,
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  Speaker 2: you're having cramps, So don't use such spicy or you know,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: stuff that has a lot of chitties and on. That
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  Speaker 2: logically would make sense to me, but I was told
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: if I touched the pickle the jar.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: The pickle will spoil.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I actually experimented.
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  Speaker 2: I remember in school when in science we learned how
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: experiments are done. And you know, what is a theory?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: What is a premise? You know, when you learn those
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  Speaker 2: definitions and that you come up with a theory, and
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  Speaker 2: then you have to test it, and then you have
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  Speaker 2: to test it again and at least three times, and
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  Speaker 2: then you have to compare the results. So I went
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: to the kitchen one month and I was like, I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to touch the pickle. Nothing happened. Second month I
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  Speaker 2: opened it. I was like, okay, let's go one step ahead.
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  Speaker 2: Of course, I was scared that if it gets spoiled,
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  Speaker 2: she might ask me. This time I opened the jar,
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  Speaker 2: closed it, third time, I took out stuff out of it.
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  Speaker 2: Fourth time I had it also. And then the next
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: month I told my mother, you know what, the last
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  Speaker 2: six months, I've been doing things.
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  Speaker 1: We have conducted an experiment using the scientific method exactly.
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  Speaker 2: And she was shocked because her first reaction was that
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  Speaker 2: she didn't want to have that a chat anymore because
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: it had been touched, because she thought this was not
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: clean anymore. And I told her that while she was
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: having meal, and while she was having that chat, I said, so,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: how does it taste? And she's like, what do you
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  Speaker 2: mean it's fine? I said, yeah, I've been I've been
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  Speaker 2: touching it for the last six months. If it's fine, well,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: so you sort it right.
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  Speaker 1: So pickles do not spoil. But a lot of these
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  Speaker 1: ideas around purity and contamination and there is a lot
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  Speaker 1: of misogyny and we internalize it as women. Even the temple,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: for example, is another complete Nothing's going to happen if
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: you go to the temple right. Many people are prevented
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  Speaker 1: from doing all kinds of things on their period and
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  Speaker 1: it really shouldn't be that way. So we have this
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: segment called mitias such, where we wanted to break down
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: some period myths with you. And I'm just going to
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: read a statement. You tell me whether it's met the
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: as such, and you unpack it for us. Okay, can
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: we do that? Okay? Girls should not play spots during
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: periods myth. It should really be up to the girl, right.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, there are girls who are not up for it,
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  Speaker 2: and there are others who just fine.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I personally actually find that like moderate exercise even during
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  Speaker 1: my period actually helps. It helps I feel better.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And there's like this period, there are certain essence
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: that relieve your pain, so of course you should.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, if I swim in a pool during my period,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: will it turn red?
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  Speaker 3: That submits? You can have a good tamp on and
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: it will not?
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  Speaker 1: Exactly? Can I stop my period if I don't like it?
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: How do you stop your period? I wish I could.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I guess there's some medications like both control and stuff
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: that can of course temporarily suppress or alter your cycle,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: but you got to do that with a doctor.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: That you have to do only with the doctor.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know, girls kind of you know there's
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: a pooja at home, and let me just take pill
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: so that I can delay my periods. Don't do that, Please,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: don't do that. It really messes up with your whole
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: cycle and your hormone the system.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I wish we could just let people attend
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: the poujas with their like. That's really something I'm hoping
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: we can change.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Do animals get periods?
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Oh?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, some of them do. And I'm not an animal expert,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: but yes, some of them do.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and some have easter cycles. Can I lose
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: all the blood in my body because of my periods?
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: No? No, no, no, no, no no, no.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: So little. We actually lose very like less than a
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: nail polished bottle, right exactly.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: It does feel like it's a lot. It's your whole
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: lining coming out, so of course it does feel like
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: it's a lot. But no, it's it's just this much.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: It's not like over the whole cycle. It's on ours
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: something like less than forty mL or somebsolutely. Are there
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: any other myths? I mean, I think because we already
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: touched upon pickles and temple in the beginning. Oh, one
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: of them is you can't wash your hair on your period.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe when people did not have showers and rooms and
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: they had to go to the river side to wash
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: their hair, maybe they made those rules at that time.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: But when I'm on my period, I really need a
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: warm shower.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: I want to wash my hair. Yeah, so of course
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: you can wash. You're not going to.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Nothing is nothing bad's going to happen.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: No, absolutely not all mets.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, thank you. So you know, when we decided
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: to do this episode, I was reflecting back on my
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: own experience of sex said in school, and there really
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: was none. In fact, to anyone watching, we'd love to
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: hear in the comments whether you had any sex said
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: in school, because for a lot of Indians, it's just
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: not something that happens, right and if at all. I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: mean I remember an eighth standard biology class there was
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: a reproductive system that the teacher kind of glossed over
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and was a bit awkward about. Everyone was giggling, did
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you have sex said in school?
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: And it's all of us millennials, I think.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it has changed with gen Z
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: and the schools, but with all of us, that's how
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: schools were, irrespective of where we grew up. So class
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: eight years I remember one of the sanitary pad companies
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: came to our school and so it was divided like
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: girls go here, boys don't. And I think it made
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: the whole thing even more awkward because the idea was
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: to give girls a safe space so they can talk
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: about it. But I remember none of the girls asked
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: anything because one we were not prepared. The teachers never
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: told us where we were going. It was like, girls,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: get up, go there, and then we were there and
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: this company comes and they talk about it, and then
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: we're told to go back, and teachers are still not
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: talking to us. We're talking to strangers. Of course, as kids,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: you don't feel safe talking to just about anyone. And
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: we were all thinking that maybe our teachers should have
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: talked to us about it, briefed at us a little.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And then you come back and the boys are like,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: so what happened? Why did they take you there? And
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: we were not supposed to talk about it. That was
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: our only sex ed and I've done biology until class twelve,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: so I remember our biology teacher.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: He was really cool.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: We had every organ system in class eleven and twelve,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: so you have the circulatory system, the digestive system, respiratory system,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and he would tell about every system in detail like
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: he would really you know. The joke was that he's
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: so passionate about his job that whatever system he's talking about,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: he actually touches every you're eating your food, he touches here,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: and then he says, we're going down, and then it
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: goes to your stomach and then this time. So we
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: used to wonder that once a reproductive system, what is
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: he going to do? And he started the chapter and
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: in two minutes it was over. He didn't explain anything.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: And when I look back, I think that.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: That's not fair. You know, it's your job.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: You're not having a conversation around it anyway, but now
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: it's part of the syllables, and you should tell those
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: things at least the way it's written in the book,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: if not more.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so much of the work is for
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: adults to overcome their shame so that they can impart
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: scientifically accurate, non judgmental shame free sex said to young people,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and it's a struggle because they don't have templates for themselves.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Do you feel that things have improved? Does your daughter
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: have puberty or sex education in school in Germany? What
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: do you think some of the differences are given that
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: you've lived in India, lived in Germany, and what are
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: the gaps still in the education systems globally?
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: So I think things are changing.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I mean since I've been living out of India for
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the last sixteen years. Maybe I'm not the best person
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: to comment on the education system that is in India
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: right now. For Germany, they have like you know, there
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: are books they go by at this age, you have
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: to tell this.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: At this age, you have to tell this.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: So I noticed, like by the age of six, when
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: they leave kindergarten and prepare for school, that's when teachers
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: at the kindergarten they tell you a little bit about
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: your bodies.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Because you know, now you have kind of nanny.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're not really nannies, but caretakers who might
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: take you to the toilet. But in school you're all
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: on your own, so they would tell you a little bit.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: And then in school again you change schools in class five.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: So class four is the first proper sex education because
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: the next class you're going to be in middle school.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: You're going to hit puberty. There you're going to have
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: lots of questions. So they do have like proper conversations
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: in class four and they answer questions like how periods
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: work and things you have to be careful when you're
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: a teenager because teenage pregnancies are a big concern there,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: So they do talk about it, and I think now
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: with social media, kids get to know things much before
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: we got to know them, and personally, in my case,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: it was that my daughter, you know, I've never hidden
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: a tampon or a sanitary pad, never, so it's always
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: there in the bathroom. It's also there in the guests toilets,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: so in case anyone needs it, it's it's just there,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: so no one has to ask for it. It's just there,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: like the toilet paper, It's supposed to be there. And
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: I think and when she was a baby, she would
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: ask me, what's that and I would say, these are
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: baby nappies, the ones you have, and these are mamma nappies.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: And then she's like, okay, so mama also needs nappies.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: I would say.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but mama doesn't need them every day. Mama needs
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: them for a few days in a month. And so
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: the I mean, the conversation starts there as I said,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: the first vocabulary, you know, so you've normalized it. I'm
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: not hiding my sanitary pads. They're not hidden somewhere in
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: the cupboards. So that way she always knew that it's something.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: As she grew up, of course, there were more questions
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: and why does she need it? And why does she
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: need it only for four five days? And then she
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: asked me that do you want to tell me more?
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: So I told her I think she was six or something.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: So I told her, look, when we watch movies, we
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: always check the age rating, right. Why do we do that?
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: So she said, because other things might be scary for
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: me or I might not be able to understand that
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: like exactly. And when we read books again, we check
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: the age rating, same reason. So if I'm not telling
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: you something, it's because I think it's not age appropriate.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: When I think I can tell you better, I will
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: do that. And that was it, you know, so there
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: were no questions after that. And then once she came
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: back from school and she said she formulated it very well.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: She said, I've heard something about it. Do you want
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: to talk about it now? Do you think it's time?
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: And she hasn't reached her puberty yet, but she was
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: honest about it, that she's heard something, and she was
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: confident about the fact that I would get a better
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: answer at home than what I'm getting at school. And
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I wasn't prepared for the question at that time. So
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: I told her very honestly, I said, give me some time.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I need to think how to talk to you. And
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: she's like, okay, fair, And you wouldn't believe what I did.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: What did you do?
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: I made a PowerPoint presentation.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: About menstruation. Yes, oh, I love that.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Because I started thinking about all the questions that she'll ask, and.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know your child the best.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: So I kept listing the questions what will come after this?
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: What will come after this? And I didn't want to
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: confuse her more. And honestly, I checked for a lot
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: of books. I went to Amazon, I went to various websites.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I really did look for a lot of books. Unfortunately,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: every book sex ed, sex takes the main seat, which
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I think should be the other way around. In puberty,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: first they need to know whether girls or boys. They
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: need to know what's actually happening with my body? How
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: do I deal with this? And sex comes, I mean
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: whether it's sexual identity or whether it's about intercourse, all
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: that comes much later.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: In my optment.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I think if we go the other way around, it
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: confuses them even more. And I did read you know,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: books the way they were written, and I wasn't convinced.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I was like, this is not the approach I want sex,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: sit for me, doesn't mean this is what a girl
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: is like, this is what a boy is like. You
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: come together, you make babies and okay, questions. So I
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: made a PowerPoint presentation and I told her this is
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: what women's body looks like. And I asked her certain
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: questions and certain things she could answer, certain she couldn't.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: And Sophia had a conversation and it took like good
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: forty five minutes discussing that, and so she she wasn't
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: really shocked, you know, like you just ask, am I
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: going to lose all my blood? Because that's what kids
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: think in the beginning, that it's bleeding. I think the
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: biggest trauma blood, right, the biggest trauma is blood. So
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: I had to tell her, no, it's going to be like,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: let's say two spoonfuls every day, or maybe three spoonfuls,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: but that's about it.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: So she asked me, does it hurt and all?
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: And she seen that, you know, there are days when
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: mama's not feeling very well. I think the conversation helped me,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: not just as a mother, also as a woman that
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: she knows that I need to rest if I'm not fine.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: She'll asks me, are you in your period? Okay, do
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: you need something? Can I help you? Can I get
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: you a warm water bottle? So it makes things so easier,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: you know, when you have a conversation and the feel
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: is gone, it's not that monster anymore. So she's prepared
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: that when it happens, she has to go and ask
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: her teacher in case she doesn't have anything, that she
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: has to ask for a sanitary napkin and not.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: You know, panic or freak out exactly or be quiet
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: about it. You know what I loved about how you
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: described all of that was it feels like you and
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: your daughter trust each other. Yeah, And I think unfortunately,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: especially in Indian homes, often parents and kids don't trust
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: each other on these things. Parents are scared. I mean,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: children are scared of their parents because they think that
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: they'll punish them or react and badly if they bring
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: up anything around sexuality, identity, the body, puberty, all of
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: that stuff is like unspeakable. And I think parents are
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: also in a way scared that their kids will learn
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: something or do something have an unpleasant experience.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: So let's just.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Avoid this topic altogether, and then both parties avoid the
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: topic and I think, I mean, the owners should be
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: on the parent to bring it. You can't expect the
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: child to have the responsibility of making you feel comfortable
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: talking about this. It ought to be the other way around,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: but so many parents don't do that, And I love
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: that you also pointed out that it is not a
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: one time conversation. It ought to be an ongoing conversation.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's sort of different levels of maybe
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: elaborateness in the explanation as the child grows, but so
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: important because many people don't have the conversation or have
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: it just once or blatantly lie to their kids.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: That's traumatic for a kid too, because when you realize
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: that such all the stuff that this person you respect
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and admire and think is, you know, has all the
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: answers to life's questions, it can be very difficult to
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: like realize your parents told you something that was just
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: not true. And so I wonder, like how parents can
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: just do a better job of this. I think some
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: people wish school.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Will take care of it, like, Okay, that's why them.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: But don't you think there is a core responsibility that
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: parents do.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of confusion about should I be a parent,
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: or should I be a friend.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: You are a parent, you cannot be a friend. There
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: is a certain age gap, so obviously you're not going
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: to be the same as their friends.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: But as parent, as.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: You said, the responsibility lies with you and it's your
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: discomfort that you're passing on to your kids. So you
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: learn things, you know, when you become a parent, you
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: start learning things, even how to teach them. ABC you
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: learn those nursery rhymes. I learned a lot of German
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: nursery rhymes for the first time. I would not have
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: learned them had I not been a parent. And so
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: these are also learning experiences how to talk to them
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: and how to keep the conversation going. As I said,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: you can't have the conversation and then get it done with.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: And when you say, oh, I'm very friendly with my child,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: we are like friends. That's when you think, okay, now
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: they're going to tell me about their boyfriends or their girlfriends. Okay,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: there would be a limit. You know, they're not going
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: to come to you and tell you everything, and you
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: don't even want to know everything. And when you say
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I'm a strict parent and so we don't have conversations,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: that is also not healthy. She had to find a
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: fine balance. And there is no you know, there's no
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: rule book. There's nothing in black and white. Every family
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: is different, every individual is different, So everyone has to
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: decide it for themselves. Where do they feel comfortable, how
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: they have to go about these conversations. I remember a
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: friend of mine told me she went to watch this movie.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: It was I guess this education exactly, and it was
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: about a boy reaching puberty. So a friend of mine
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: she went to watch the movie and she took her son.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: That when she.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Told me, I was like, very proud of her. But
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: she said that she hadn't seen the trailer and she
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: just booked the show. So they stopped the sun and
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: they said, the movie is aerated.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: The sense of board give it an arating even though
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: it was meant for like.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Exactly, it was meant for teenagers, right, And there's a
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: teenager standing outside and is not allowed to watch the movie,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: so what's the sense And she says that then she
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: asked him to leave when the husband came, and then
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: they watched the movie and she was traumatized because she thought,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: oh my god, I was going to watch this with
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: my son. And I was like, why not like that
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: was the whole idea right to have a conversation. So
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: she said, no, I think he'll just get to know
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: about things when he talks to his friends. So as parents,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: if you think seeing Jiangga.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: WHI leave, it's a ah, you just speakle so much
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: less invested in your child's well being, right, And I
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: think people also don't recognize that the fact is, and
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: like data supports this, young people who have access to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: a caregiver who can provide them with accurate information about
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: sex and the body actually are more likely to delay
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: having sex and less likely to take risks with their
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: owner another person's health or safety. So there's really positive
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: outcomes to having this conversation. Speaking of, we have another
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: segment where I'd like to ask you a few questions
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: that children often have. And you explain as if I'm nine, okay, Yeah,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: explain as if I'm nine okay, So ready, where do
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: babies come from?
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: Okay? We need a PowerPoint present for that?
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Did you make one? No?
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: So she knows where babies come from?
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, we've never had the birdie comes and whatever. That
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: kind of conversation. And again, as I said, you know
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: those books with those flip charts and everything. They always help,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: and she's asked me things like was I normal or cesarin?
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: And she's even asked that I want to see what
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: the ciarian cut looks like. So I have to show
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: it to her so that she understands that, you know,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: you get if you get hurt playing, there's a cut
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: and then it's stitched, and that's how a baby comes out.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: So so you have the conversations Perlman egg and that
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: type of thing. Yes, okay, okay, why do boys voices
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: get weird when the teenagers.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Because they are from boys, they're becoming men and a
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: lot is happening in your body and there are hormones. Answer,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: the really easy answer to many things is hormones, right, So.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Say he talk.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: When I used to host that, I always used to
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: say hormones, hormon's hormones. That whatever we're talking about, somehow
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: it always leads back to some of the other hormone.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: And so when you explain this again, you explain how
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: I know you get very sanctific. Did you talk about
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: the thyroid and larrings and everything? But to keep it
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: easy and as a joke, I always say hormones hormon's hormones.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well the second answer, I mean, the next
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: thing I'm going to ask you guys might have a
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: similar answer. Why do I have hair growing in new places?
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the same. It's the hormones.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I think people can often feel like
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: only they're going through something because nobody's talking about it.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: But it's comforting to know that literally everyone in your
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: class has their voice breaking and hair growing in new places.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: It's just normal, And isn't it good? Like entering a
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: new face?
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Why do people kiss?
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Why do people kiss?
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Because again, there are hormones at place, so when you kiss,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: you feel nice, you feel attached. There are hormones inside
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: your body that tell you this person I can love
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: and I feel loved back, and it makes you happy.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, Why did Paya wake up and quickly change his
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: shots at night?
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: M q key? Because of Baya's hormones.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it happens that you know, he doesn't have kind
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: of Mama nappies, but he might need something and we
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: need a pop on presentation, you.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Know, Isha, we got to make database of all your
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: pot I think so many parents would also benefit from
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: being able to tap into resources like that, thank you.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but tell me how did you as a teenager,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: how did you have it at home? Because the fact
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: that now you can talk openly about sex, it it
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: must have been because during your teenage or later you've.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Had really lacky Yeah, to have parents who were super
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: open about this stuff, and I always felt like I
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: could ask them questions if I had them, and at
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: home there was never a sense that the body is
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: a site of shame. I grew up in Goa. You know,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: we went to the beach like wearing a swimsuit or
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: like from the time I could walk, we've like been
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: in the water, been at the beach, my parents in
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: a swimsuit. I'm you know, like just ease around the body.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I think was something that maybe not everybody gets to
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: have an Indian and if you live anywhere else in
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the country, you'd really never get to wear a bikini
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: unless you come to go up. So I think there
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: was something really sort of free and open about the
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: relationship to the body and the fact that somehow as
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: a family we were able to talk about almost anything
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: without my you know, my first heartbreak or my questions
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: about my period of Like of course I would go
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: to my mom, and I think and dad. Actually, actually
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: I was curious, does your husband partake in these conversations
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: with your daughter as well?
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, so, as I.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Said, it's just you know, it's normal. It's just the
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: wocab and everything. So it was never that you go
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: to mama for this and you go to Papa for this.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: So we haven't really divided it like that. In fact,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I remember I was talking to her about something and
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: she corrected me. She said, it's not vgiana as welva.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I was like, I didn't hear that, and she said, yeah,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: but Papa did. I was like, okay, because she had
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: some question and he had answered and he had corrected
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: her that you got to use the right word. And
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: then when she corrected me, I was like, oh, okay.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Nice, that's I love that.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: And similarly, like my parents didn't gender it and have
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: a brother also and we both get. I mean, I think,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: you know, young boys should also know about periods, young
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: girls should also know about erections or whatever, like we
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: all deserved and it's the human body. Why would we
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: limit an understanding of it? Right? And even I think,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you know, when children are questioning their own identity and things,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: so often in Indian households, there's so much fear if
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you're a young person who's discovering their queerness or something.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: How unfortunate to be to have to hide such a
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: fundamental aspect of yourself because you fear, you know, really
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: severe outcomes if your family finds out. I think we
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: socially culturally need to do a better job like accepting
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: our kids.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: And I think people tend to make a kind of
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: an image. You know when someone someone who doesn't know
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: go or who doesn't know your context, and they would
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, so they're always talking about sexual stuff.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: So I think that comes from the kind of fantasy
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: content that people see online chup k and then they think,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: oh a China caake helpit.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: It's not key.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: You know, when we talk about food, we're not twenty
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: four seven talking about food. When we talk about travel,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: we're not twenty four seven talking about travel. Similarly, this
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: is one of the things that you talk about and
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: it's no way different than anything else you're doing.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: You wake up, you.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Do your chores, you eat, you sleep, and similarly, you
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: know there is every part of your body needs equal attention,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: and so you talk about this as well, so I
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: don't think you need to attach a shame or any
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: special Even kynecologists in India don't talk open.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I know the question would be are you married exactly?
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Exactly?
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Are you sexually active? Yeah? By simply naming the thing
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: talking about it, actually, I think you make it much
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: less of a big deal. By not talking about it
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: and saying you can't talk about you give with so
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: much negative power. So I actually think people who don't
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: talk about it like thinking about it much more than
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: those two.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: You know, that's true. And then they're like they have
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: this feeling, you know, that's like maybe they can see
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: through me, and that's when they feel uncomfortable. How can
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: we talk about this? But I wonder when you become
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: a doctor then using these terms right. I was taken
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: aback when I went to the gynecologist for the first
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: time and she told my mother, I don't need to
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: check her.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: She's not married yet, And I was like, this is
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: a doctor.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I guess even doctors are products of
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: the same culture. Not to let them off the hook,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I really think they ought to do better, Like if
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: you're a doctor, you got to leave your religious and
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: other such beliefs at the door. Right, science should really
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: be guiding your practice. But unfortunately, I think there's you know,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: we're all brought up in the same rather sort of
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of misogyny. There's also this idea
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: that prematal sex is not acceptable, and I think that unfortunately,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: it does enter even the guy Nax clinic sometimes, where
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: people who really ought to be doing better will perpetuate
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: some of the most regressive attitudes around women's But the
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: agent no, exactly, there's such gender double standards. But I mean,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I hope conversations like these and the work you do,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, all of us are trying to be
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the change. And I really do see a lot of
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: promise in gen z They seem so much better informed.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: And you've been hosting besh Misha now back as Beavakisha.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Students Science, Commercegamoney.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Charlie's but he retirement, Mila, tell us a little bit
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: about the sorts of conversations you've had with gen z U.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: They fill me with hope. In the work that I
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: do on social media, what's your experience been like?
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: They are different.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I think we were reluctant talking about things or they
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: were just people like you and me, who would you
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: not talk about.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: It on screen?
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: But I see that things are more normal for them,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Like at the workplace, they are, you know, confident saying
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: that I'm on my period and I won't be able
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: to work today because I'm having cramps, which did not
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: happen in our generation. So that way, yes, you know,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: they're making it different. And the thing is that people
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: don't know how to deal with that yet.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I know, people like, oh my god, these people know
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: they have rights. What are we going to do with
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: these young people who know they have rights?
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the structures are aren't also like that. You know,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: there are no period leaves. So from a manager's point
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: of view, if someone tells you that I have cramps
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: and I'm not able to concentrate, what does the manager do?
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: But there is no leave here, like I don't know
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: which category to put you in.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: So we need structural changes.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: But they start with these conversations, you know, when they
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: say that I'm not able to work and had I
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: had a flu, I would not be in office. I'm
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: having cramps, I'm not able to be in office.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: So it's understandable have any of the insights through the
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: course of hosting these shows stood out for you because
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I understand you're kind of like an interlocutor between the
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: boomers and the gen Z as a millennial to think
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: that intergenerational conversation is kind of key to structural change,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: normalizing some of this stuff. Yeah, what's that been like?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Sort of hearing both sides, especially when there's differences of
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: opinion on how something should be handled, let's say identity
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: for example, often are quite a provocative topic.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: For I think more than difference of opinion, it's a
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: lack of awareness because there aren't any conversations. So many
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: times people don't know, like you know, boomers have a
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: certain image of gen zs GenZ have a certain image
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: of boomers. But as millennial, when I show both the sides,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I tend to read in comments that oh, we didn't
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: know it's like this, So it's always you know, coin
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: has two sides, and I think my job is to
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: show both the sides because people are just so concentrated.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: And also the algorithms you know these days you're just in.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Your what you already exactly and the AI now with chat,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: GPT and all whatever you feel, they are designed to
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: say that yes, you're right, So you don't understand me.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it would be fun. Maybe you
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: can do it sometimes that you make a boomer and
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: a gen Z sit together and they ask the same
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: question to chat GPT, and chat GPT tells both of them, oh,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: you're right. You know, it tells a gen Z that
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: you write boomers are stupid, and then it tells boomers
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: your stupid.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: That would yes. So we're going to play another podcast game.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: It's called no Overthinking, where I'm going to throw a
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: sentence at you and you've got to complete it with
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to mind. Okay, okay, So
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: when a sex scene comes on while my child and
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I are watching TV, I would I.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Would not panic.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: I mean mostly we watched stuff which is age appropriate,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: so I don't think that would happen. But yeah, what
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: has happened is kissing scenes. You know, we've watched Parent
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Trap and there's a very passionate kissing scene at the end.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: I didn't panic. I mean, inside I was because it
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: was the first time she was watching the kissing scene.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: But that was also but that's what parents are, you know,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: they love each other and so it's a parent Tea Kisse, Yeah,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: it s weird.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Okay. One thing I wish my parents had told me
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: about puberty is.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: That your hormones are going to go up and down
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: and you might have mood swings.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: But it's not your fault.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: It's not your fault. The word I still find awkward
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: to say out loud is.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: Vagina.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: You just said it.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I mean I've said it on camera many times, but
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I think in conversations because I don't want to make
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: anybody else uncomfortable, So I still have to think before
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: saying it.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Is pain as easier to say no.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I think for me both of that, I know where
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: that's coming from. For many people, it's easier to save
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: or dick is you know, you said dick pics.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: But no, I think for me, it's just in general
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the genitals. Yeah, okay. The most surprising thing my child
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: ever asked me was.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: I'm not surprised at anything anymore.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was surprised at the way she formulated
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: when she said it was as if she was asking
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: me as if I'm ready for the conversation.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, to any parents watching, we'd love to hear
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: from you in the comments. If your child ever asked
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: you a question that cut you off guard, So do
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: leave it in the comments. We'd love to collectively learn
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: from each other's parenting experiences. Okay, one thing I never
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: expected to google as a parent was.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: Mmm, I googled as a parent, Oh what what is
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: a Sephora girl trend?
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: What is a Sephora girltrend?
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: So as the yeah, right, But so there are girls
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: that that start doing makeup at seven eight nine because
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: markets target you in such a way that you know,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: the sooner you start, the better it is for them.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: And so there are a lot of TikTok videos and
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Insta videos where girls are getting ready, you know that
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: get ready with me trend. And these are school girls
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: and they're just in class three, four five, and they
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: tell you what mascara to put, so you know, it
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: looks natural in school and you don't look all made up.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: So yeah that wow.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Gosh, Okay, we're gonna I want to talk to you
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: about parenting in the digital age. But the last question
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: on this no over thinking list is if a parent
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: walks in on their kid masturbating, they should.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: They should give them their space and behave normally.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, just imagine if you're in the if somebody
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: is in the toilet and they haven't locked properly and
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: you just walk in, you don't.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: Talk about that later. You don't think that it about
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: it yeah yeah, or say sorry that I ended without knocking.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: I wish markets had parents like you, thanks Asha. So
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: that brings us straight to puberty in the digital age.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I think you touched upon a few different things, you know,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: the trouble with AI generating the type of answer that
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: you expected to rather than something that's actually accurate, the
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: proliferation of just marketing to young people on social media.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: And we haven't even gotten to PONN yet. So what
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: do you think parents need to be weary off in
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: terms of, you know, creating some sort of media literacy
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: for chie in the digital age.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: I think they have to first learn themselves, because millennials
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: having kids now, we know as much as we've learned
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: through you know, SMSs came in our time and everything
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: social media started in our time. But a lot of
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: new things are happening now, which I think even millennials
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: are not aware of, and so they think, for instance,
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: giving phones to their kids, it's still safe. If I
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: have an app where I can track what my child
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: is doing. One.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: I think you're encroaching a bit too much because if
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: I compare it with my time would we did not
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: have phones, but we would take our bikes and go.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: You know, our parents didn't know where we were. They
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: just knew we were out biking, and that was the
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: time when we would explore things. That's how you you know,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: your characters build because you've done some experiments and so
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: it's the same with the digital age. You want to
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: know your child's digital footprint. But that's a bit too
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: much of surveillance for me. So you need to know
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: how to ensure that your child doesn't go the path
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: that you are. You don't want them to go to.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: So you have to tell them that you know this
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: is YouTube, this instagram, but you might end up seeing
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: these kinds of things, so you have to be mentally
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: prepared that you don't fall for those things.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: You have to tell them that social media is also fake.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: You have to tell them how things are done, that
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: real is fifty nine seconds, but your real life starts
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: are the sixty eight second, So you shut that and
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: you know, don't get too influenced. And I feel bad
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: for little girls as I said, if they're five, six, seven, eight,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: and they have makeup kids and they are copying those
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: influencer trends where they're, you know, showing how to do makeup,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Why does a five or six year old need to
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: show that, you know, this is how you put you
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: to so your lips look pink. This is how you
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: put your lips to Again, I'm like you.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: They just they're not.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Even made here, yeah, and you don't need to put
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: anything on them the beautiful. So as a parent, I
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: kind of get scared for kids where the girls of
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: boys or whoever. I get scared that, you know, ten
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: years from now, these kids might have some mental.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Health issues or you know, some body issues.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: I don't look as good as that because of the
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: filters that they're so used to.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: So as parents, I think that is something we need
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: to do.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: What do you think the solution is? Should parents limit
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: screen time? As you said, to over surveillance is not
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: quite the solution. So, I mean, I think there isn't
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: an easy answer to this. But given how central Pawn
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: is to the architecture of the Internet, they say something
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: like fifty percent of kids with Internet access are going
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: to stumble upon porn by age ten, whether they like
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: it or not, Like they're not even necessarily having to
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: look for it. So how can parents provide context and
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: some sort of guardrails and you know, preparation to a
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: young person who's probably going to come upon all of this.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: I think first they have to prepare themselves. First, they
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: have to read up or watch things and become more aware.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: I attended a workshop where I was.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Shown the kind of things that are very subtly put
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: into kids' content. So certain games that are very popular
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: in kids, there you would have a certain scene in
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: between which is of sexual nature, and the game is
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: not actually supposed to have that, but they very subtly
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: put those things. Or there are certain content creators, singers,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: rappers who are very popular amongst kids, and then they
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: would have certain lines in those songs that are again
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: you know, cursing the mother or using the kind of
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: language that kids shouldn't not be speaking or should be
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: thinking that this is normal. So one parents have to
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: become aware that what's happening in the world of internet,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: rather than just saying keeper, I think it's very easy
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: to say don't do this. First you figure out what
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: is it that you're stopping your child from because when
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: the child asks you, you naker, and now you need
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: to have an answer. Secondly, I think it's very important
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: that as parents you talk and you make them aware
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: about what are the dangers. So I went for a
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: play last night. It was very disturbing. It's called The Nether.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: You've seen it. We went to Pritty Theater and it
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: was like a futuristic kind of a sci fi kind
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: of a play. But the idea was that there is
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: a physical world, then there is Internet, and then there's
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: this dark web. They have changed the names, of course,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: so the Internet is called the Nether and the dark
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: is a realm. And with AI it has evolved to
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: such an extent that in darknet you don't only see things,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: you can also feel them. So as a pedophile, you
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: go in the darknet and just because people have put
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: photos or videos of their kids and from their AI
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: takes those images and creates like an avatar that this
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: pedophile would like to have relationship with, and the guy
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: gets to decide whatever he wants to do with the child,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: from sex to violence. There's like they give you a
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: whole catalog of things that you can do there It
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: was very disturbing, and I kept thinking that the way
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: technology has evolved, this might become reality at some point,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: and the very safe family photos that you have on
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: the internet, they might be you know, used for making
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: such avatars where predators are doing things or you know,
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: it's like their most invasive thoughts becoming real in the
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: virtual world. It's very complicated to say that, so to
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: understand that you know, such things could happen. Of course,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: you don't have to scare your kids, but you have
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: to tell them why. It is important not to overshare
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: what is sharing on internet. So they need to know
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: those things because they'll have.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: To navigate in the AI world.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: So I think those two things, first awareness comes to
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: yourself and second that you imparted to your kids.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I think that that's it raises such an important point,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: which is that not only is this conversation necessary so
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: that a young person can make sense of what's going
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: on in their body or in their personal life or whatever,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: it's also a safe a matter of safety. And there's
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: on the one hand, this Internet safety safety from you know,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: the monsters on the Internet, which can still seem a
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: bit distant and like these you know, you can other
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: that scary, awful person on the internet upon or something.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: But another aspect of safety is also the fact that
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: you know, most survivors of sexual assault are actually dealing
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: with a perpetrator who they know as something like I
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: believe according to crime data in India, something like ninety
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: six percent of sexual assault survivors were assaulted by someone
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: they know. Often over ten percent it's even a family member.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: And so we absolutely need to be equipping our kids
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: with vocabulary and understanding of they're safety right, their sexual
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: and bodily autonomy and safety. And I think parents don't
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: do enough of that either, talking about consent and boundaries
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: and whether it's good touch bad touch, this idea of
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: like protecting your child also and therefore having this conversation
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: and these are.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: The statistics and data that we talk about. Those are
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: all registered cases, right exactly, think of all the unregistered ones.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I was in a girls college recently and we started
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: having a conversation about this, and I asked them, how
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: many of you have been touched in an inappropriate manner?
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: How many of you you know you've been sexually molested?
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: And ninety nine percent of the girls they raised their
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: hands and then I said, how many of you have
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: registered a complain, how many you've gone to someone for help?
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: And they were just barely one percent. You know, it
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: was the other way around, so these are all unregistered cases.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: And then you know, all of us we started sharing
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: our stories. It was in the classic me too moment
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: where you think that it's only you, and then one says,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: and then the other one says.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: It happened to me.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: It happened to me, It happened to me, and everyone
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: in the hall we were all teary eyed, you know,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: we could barely speak. It was a very uncomfortable moment.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, it was also like therapy,
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: where you think that you've created a safe space and
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: you can talk about it, and maybe just talking openly
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: about it can help you get rid of the trauma
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: that's attached to it. But the fact that all girls
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: have to live with that trauma, the fact that your
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: first sexual experience is always traumatizing. I mean, the first
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: time you're supposed to enjoy something really pious, really nice,
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: you reminded of everything that was done to you. So
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: it was I mean, I'm I'm not able to speak
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: now because you know, thinking of all the conversations we
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: had there, because every girl.
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: Was so emotional, and the question is always like why
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: you know?
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: It's always some uncle, it always someone you know, it's
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: someone on the streets. It could be your cab driver,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: it could be just about anyone.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: And yet.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Yet you don't live with this idea that all men
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: are bad. Yet you cling and hope right, You don't
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: say that, I'm not going to get out of the house.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: So I mean, that is something that you need to
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: talk both with your daughters and your sons.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: You have to tell them.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and with your sons because unfortunately people, I mean,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I think at least with the media movement, women are
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: finally somewhere I understand, like it's there's so much work
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: to be done, but at least some of us have
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: begun speaking up. Something that remains largely unspoken but is fact,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: is that when it comes to child sexual abuse, the
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: gender doesn't matter. Young girls and young boys are abused
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: an equal almost equally, and we still men talking about
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: sexual abuse is still such a nobody's talking about.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: Exactly, nobody's talking about it. It's not that it's not happening.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: The perpetrators are largely male, but the victims when it's children,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: it can be both gender.
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: Kids. After it has happened, you've got.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: To prevent it.
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: You've got to prevent not.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and teach them to say no. I think that's
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: something that we really bad at. We think saying no
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: it's impolite. We think, you know, standing up for yourself
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: is something wrong. You have to teach your kids to
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: say no. You have to respect their boundaries, and you
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: have to let them, you know, tell others that these
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: are my boundaries.
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: I didn't like this. Don't do that again, no matter.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Who it is, exactly, no matter to be better at
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: speaking up to older relatives, teacher, whatever, like this idea
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: of that an authority figure can just do whatever they want.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: I think we're taught to respect anyone older, respect, your teachers, respect.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: But I think that it's really important to give a
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: young person the sense that they must put them their
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: own safety.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: First, or your force kids to say, go and hug
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: this person, or go a cass to that person. If
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: they're not comfortable, don't tell them. And you know, I
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: think that that's where the lines are learned. That's where
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: they don't realize which one was good touch and bad touch,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: because when you have the conversation with them, they are
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: all the more confused. So do I case, do I
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: not case? Again, then you have to take the conversation further.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's not easy.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: It's not easy. It's not easy, but at least we
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: can try our best to become comfortable ourselves and having
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: these difficult conversations, right, all right, Well that brings us
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: to well, actually it is almost the end of the show,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: but I wanted to bring up one thing that we
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: haven't so far, and I think that parents might if
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: they managed to work through all the stuff we've discussed already.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Typically they managed to have the conversations around menstruation, puberty,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: you know, these more reproduct of aspects of where do
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: babies come from? Maybe even the question of consent and boundaries.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: But something that remains really tricky even for the parents
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: who manage all of that, is to talk about pleasure
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: and to talk about the fact that sex is supposed
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: to be a positive, fulfilling, wonderful thing, a source of
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: joy and connection, and especially women's pleasure. I think to
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: a large extent, lots of women still get the message
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: from the other women in the family. Let's say, you know,
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: at the time of getting married or something, it's almost
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: like sex is a duty, yes, your wifely duty. Women
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: are supposed to have babies, not organisms, right, And personally,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: I'm so invested in changing this, and I think pleasure
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: is a beautiful thing, and like why, I mean, surely
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: sexual experiences ought to be consensual, safe and pleasure.
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: But tell me how did it start?
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Because you started this whole conversation, Like what kind of
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: triggered you? When did you decide that, you know, I
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: need to have these conversations.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: It came from a place of me myself. Despite all
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: my education, privilege and very open family background, my own
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: pleasure was so mysterious to me and I didn't even know.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't even know. I didn't know.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: And I think that when I finally began to understand
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: my own body, sexuality and pleasure, I wanted to be
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: able to I felt like, gosh, there must be so
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: many others out there who would benefit from being able
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: to talk openly about this. I never thought it would
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: become as sort of big as it became. I never
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: thought I could make it my career. It started as
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: a passion project. I was also a journalist at the time,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: in fact, and so I'd also seen the power of
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: peer to peer conversation around sexuality. When I was in
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: college in New York, there was a lot of peer
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: to peer sex said, which was such a nice thing
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: to have when you're coming of age. You know, to
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: have a student maybe one or two years older than
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: you would receive training as a sex educator to be
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: able to lead a consent workshop. And I thought it
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: was really powerful for young people to be able to
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: talk to each other. Also because sometimes it can be
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: a bit scary to talk to an authority figure and
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: easier to talk to someone like all who almost feels
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: like a big sister or big brother or whatever. So
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: it came from a place of wishing there was something
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: like this, realizing there wasn't, and so I'm going to
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: just try and make it. Even if I don't have
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: all the answers, at least I'm going to start asking
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: the questions. And for me, I really think that pleasure
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: is such a fundamental thing, Like it's so life giving.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: It's so I don't want to have sex that's not pleasurable,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: So to me, it's a big it's a big part
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: of the puzzle, and that's it's so often ignored because
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: we think of it in this reproductive or safety based lens.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Only if you were teaching kids about food, you won't
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: only teach them about food poisoning, right, You're also going
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: to try and maybe like wish for them to have
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: delicious meals in their life, and maybe even equip them
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: with some recipes. So I think as parents, that's still
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: very uncomfortable for many people, even if they manage the
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: other stuff, but surely we ought to also get comfortable
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: around that. Do you have any thoughts on how you
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: might approach that?
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I haven't thought about that yet. I mean, I'm
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: going step by step. As I said, as your child
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: keeps growing, as parent, you also keep growing. So I
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: would reach that phase, and I think it might happen
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: very organically.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: At that time.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: I can't really plan things. I might be the person
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: who makes presentations, but I don't really plan life inside
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: the way that this is how she asks and this
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: is how I'll answer. But you'd ask me about gen
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Z and one thing that I have noticed is that
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: there is a lot of peer pressure to fit in.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: You know that this is what's happening, and this is
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: how we have to fit in now.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: For people like you and me who've kind of you know.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Broken them all, if I can put it like that,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: we did not really confirm to what others were saying.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: So for your.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Experiences and from my experiences, my first scripts, i'd written,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: keeping my mother in my mind that if it was this, yeah,
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: if she watches uh, this is the kind of conversation
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: I wanted her to have, And so a lot of
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: my examples always came from what she had said. And
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: just like you, I was thinking that others might have
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: had similar things at home, that their mothers were not
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: talking to them, that they wanted a little more, and
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: That was the connect.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: So for the younger people who are so under that
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: peer pressure that you know, we don't want to do
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: anything that makes others uncomfortable or this is how we're
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: supposed to be, I just want to say no, just
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: be yourself and if you think you're different, you're blessed
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: to be different and make use of it, you know,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: rather than trying to fit in to norms, and the
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: norms change.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Absolutely No, who cares about low JAKAHNGI right, the hell
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: with that, Issha? Where can everyone find your show? Tell
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: everyone a little bit about how they can see more
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: of the amazing work you do.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: You can watch Babaka on d W Hindi and you
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: can also watch it on Janata. So go to YouTube
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: and you can just type baybak Isha or you can
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: write d W Underscore Hindi and then look for the playlist.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: And we've talked about the previous projects, so you can
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: see talk as well, and you can watch the last
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: season which was called BISHRM and I mean I personally
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: preferred that name more because my tagline for SA was
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: and we continued that with the bim that you know,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: these are the things that people don't openly talk about.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: But it didn't fit well with a lot of people,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: so we had to like torn it down and made
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: a little milder. But the idea is still to be
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: apologetic like that.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: Q exactly.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: The whole idea is keep shame. That shame.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Shame is something that I want to just run away
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: from and tell everybody there's nothing like shame shame.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: And the more shame shame is there, the more you
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: hide your traumatic experiences and you don't know how to
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: voice it, so here's.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: To dismantling shame. Issha, thanks so much for joining us
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: on Love Matters, and thank you so much for joining
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: us as well. If anything resonated with you today, I'd
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: love it if you shared this episode with your friends,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: maybe your family, your parents, your kids. These really are
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: very important conversations. We hope you think so too. Please like, share, subscribe,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: rate the podcast. You can write into us at Lovematters
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: at DW dot com if you have any topic or
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: guest suggestions or any feedback we would love to hear
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: from you. Love Matters is produced by the Indian Express
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: and DW, Germany's international broadcaster, and I am Lisa Mangoldas
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: your hosts, I believe Love Matters