Latest / Like a Virgin / Loving HER Was Red (feat. Bowen Yang)

Transcript

Loving HER Was Red (feat. Bowen Yang) · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: Do you know what my favorite sound is? Emma Emma.
0:08
Speaker 1: That is so our friendship exactly. It's you saying Emma
0:12
Speaker 1: to me. It's also kind of you saying Emma to me.
0:15
Speaker 1: But when I'm saying Emma to you, it's like, please
0:18
Speaker 1: see me as a human being, and yours is like
0:21
Speaker 1: stop being being, I see you as a whole. Oh,
0:25
Speaker 1: thank you, Fran. Yes, what's your favorite color? It's probably
0:35
Speaker 1: an Eves Climb blue. What about yours? I would also
0:39
Speaker 1: say blue. I don't have a specific kind of blue though.
0:42
Speaker 1: Oh really, you just like all blues, like just like blue,
0:47
Speaker 1: even like a like a like a hideous like navy blue. See.
0:51
Speaker 1: I think this is one of the differences between us
0:53
Speaker 1: is you have to know exactly what kind of blue
0:56
Speaker 1: you like. I just like the color blue. Okay, okay,
1:00
Speaker 1: so why did you ask me? That? Color? Is going
1:02
Speaker 1: to be very important today because we will be talking
1:06
Speaker 1: about an album that has the name of a color,
1:09
Speaker 1: and what color would that be? Rose? It would be
1:11
Speaker 1: read Today we'll be talking about Red by Taylor Swift,
1:14
Speaker 1: maybe my second favorite color, maybe my second favorite Taylor
1:17
Speaker 1: Swift album. I guess we'll get into it. Welcome back
1:20
Speaker 1: to Like a Virgin, the podcast where we talk about
1:22
Speaker 1: yesterday's pop culture but give it today's takes. I'm Rose,
1:26
Speaker 1: damn you, I'm Fran Toronto, and today, as stated, we
1:31
Speaker 1: will be diving into Taylor Swift's iconic album Red, with
1:35
Speaker 1: the help of bow and Yang of Saturday Night Live
1:38
Speaker 1: and the podcast Lost Culture Stas. I'm so excited to
1:42
Speaker 1: really get into Red with Bowen. But before that, let's
1:47
Speaker 1: talk about what's going on in you know, the news
1:49
Speaker 1: and pop culture right now. This week is in many
1:56
Speaker 1: ways all about one woman and the emotional chokehold she
2:02
Speaker 1: has on us, our community, our community, and on the world.
2:07
Speaker 1: And that woman is Taylor Swift, of course, Taylor Allison Swift.
2:11
Speaker 1: Last week, Taylor Swift released Red, Taylor's Version, the latest
2:17
Speaker 1: in her effort to re record all of her albums. Fran,
2:23
Speaker 1: what did you think? First of all, it's like seventeen
2:26
Speaker 1: hours long, um, which is such a gift, such a
2:31
Speaker 1: gift in my opinion. I mean, even though a lot
2:34
Speaker 1: of the songs are just carbon copies of the originals,
2:39
Speaker 1: I did love what she did change, Like this song
2:43
Speaker 1: Girl at Home to Me is like maybe the most
2:46
Speaker 1: significantly different, And I did not like that song on
2:51
Speaker 1: the original Red and Taylor's version to me was like
2:55
Speaker 1: so grown and a little more poppy, and what did
2:58
Speaker 1: you think? I have to agree. I really liked the
3:01
Speaker 1: new production on Girl at Home, but really, for me,
3:06
Speaker 1: it was all about the from the Vault tracks. I
3:09
Speaker 1: obviously love the song with Phoebe Bridgers. It was my
3:13
Speaker 1: favorite song. I also really love the song Message in
3:16
Speaker 1: a Bottle, which I saw someone on TikTok say is
3:20
Speaker 1: like a song from the Trolls World War three credits
3:24
Speaker 1: and what I didn't love it, but I love it
3:27
Speaker 1: so much. I have been listening to it kind of NonStop.
3:31
Speaker 1: But we have to talk about the film Rose. I
3:34
Speaker 1: had fun watching it. I think it's silly, but it's
3:37
Speaker 1: and and like very literal, but I'm I'm happy it happened.
3:43
Speaker 1: It was another moment in this very aggressive, like a
3:47
Speaker 1: week long album release cycle, because I think she understands
3:51
Speaker 1: that she has until Adele thirty comes out to do
3:57
Speaker 1: promo for Red Tailor's version, and so she's amming it
4:00
Speaker 1: all into one week. I thought it was a little
4:02
Speaker 1: on the nose that it played behind her during the
4:06
Speaker 1: SNL performance, but I loved her in The Red Wig.
4:09
Speaker 1: What did you think of it? Like that was your
4:11
Speaker 1: main takeaway? I loved her in The Red Wig. It
4:14
Speaker 1: was my main takeaway. It was similar to my main
4:16
Speaker 1: takeaway from the Bad Blood video. Loved her in The
4:19
Speaker 1: Red Wig. Loved her in The Red Wig. I okay.
4:22
Speaker 1: I My first reaction was like, this is messy Boots,
4:27
Speaker 1: Like it is. It is quintessential Taylor to write and
4:32
Speaker 1: direct a ten minute film about a breakup that happened
4:35
Speaker 1: a decade ago, opening with a Pablo Naruta quote about
4:39
Speaker 1: how he'll never forgive Jake Jillen Hall. Because like, when
4:42
Speaker 1: I listened to the ten minute version without the film,
4:44
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you know, maybe she's actually not
4:47
Speaker 1: that mad at Jake, and she's just writing it for
4:50
Speaker 1: the marketing, very shrewdly and wisely, like go off, Taylor, um,
4:54
Speaker 1: and like she doesn't actually feel a type of way
4:55
Speaker 1: about it was just fun to write because allegedly, according
4:58
Speaker 1: to like Redditt threads and fan listeners or whatever, she
5:01
Speaker 1: was like, you know, in the studio for whatever reason,
5:04
Speaker 1: and they were recording all too well, and she just
5:07
Speaker 1: started riffing versus and I think, actually, I think they
5:12
Speaker 1: were rehearsing for a tour and she and she like
5:16
Speaker 1: was in feeling a certain type of way, sat down
5:19
Speaker 1: at the piano and just started playing and like and
5:23
Speaker 1: all too well is kind of like an improvised ten
5:26
Speaker 1: minute song, but they cut down and this is now
5:29
Speaker 1: the this is not the original version. And after she
5:32
Speaker 1: was riffing this, I guess it was ages ago, the
5:34
Speaker 1: producer walked up to her after almost like and by
5:36
Speaker 1: the way, like I recorded that if if you want
5:38
Speaker 1: it for later, and so this is later, mama, and
5:41
Speaker 1: we now. Actually what happened is that her mom walked
5:44
Speaker 1: up to love the live fact that you just let
5:47
Speaker 1: your you're letting me spew conspiracy theories when you have
5:50
Speaker 1: all the facts. You're in the reddit threads. It comes.
5:53
Speaker 1: I'm not in the reddit threads. She talked about this
5:55
Speaker 1: like on Steth Myers or Jimmy Fallon or something that
5:58
Speaker 1: she was like at rehearsal in her feelings started playing
6:02
Speaker 1: this and then afterwards her mom went up to like
6:05
Speaker 1: the sound engineer and was like did you record that?
6:09
Speaker 1: And they had so key how it is now it
6:12
Speaker 1: is what it is, Fran did you order a funk
6:15
Speaker 1: the Patriarchy key chain from Taylor Swift dot com. I
6:18
Speaker 1: mean no, I didn't. I don't love the typeface, but
6:21
Speaker 1: I actually would if it was maybe to have the
6:24
Speaker 1: asterisk and can't you just say funck? I understand that
6:29
Speaker 1: she has a lot of young fans, but like if
6:32
Speaker 1: they have if they're carrying around a key chain that
6:36
Speaker 1: says the patriarchy, like they know what it is. I
6:40
Speaker 1: did buy some merch. I bought the All Too Well
6:44
Speaker 1: t shirt and the red Taylor's version. Now, Jean Bottle,
6:49
Speaker 1: are you going to wear it with your cardigan? Your
6:51
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift again? I will be. I now at this
6:54
Speaker 1: point own too much Taylor Swift merch, so I will
6:58
Speaker 1: be layering it to um stay warm during this uh
7:03
Speaker 1: Los Angeles winter. I guess my only question for you
7:06
Speaker 1: is what to you is the most unhinged lyric and
7:10
Speaker 1: or moment from the All two Well ten minute version
7:13
Speaker 1: or the film Oh well, I mean not unhinged, but
7:16
Speaker 1: my favorite lyric is you kept me like a secret,
7:19
Speaker 1: but I kept you like an oath. You know. Don't
7:22
Speaker 1: don't hate that I'm being sincere, but that is pure
7:26
Speaker 1: Taylor Gold songwriting. It is so evocative, it is definitely peaked.
7:31
Speaker 1: Taylor is is her magnum opus. I don't say that
7:34
Speaker 1: even in a facetious way. I think it's emblematic of
7:37
Speaker 1: like everything she does. My main takeaway was that Taylor
7:41
Speaker 1: Swift will direct a Marvel movie. She what that? I
7:46
Speaker 1: don't know about that. Is she going to direct the
7:48
Speaker 1: next Eternals? Is that? What's going to happen? Journals too?
7:52
Speaker 1: And she will be one of the Eternals as well?
7:55
Speaker 1: Oh no, there are already too many Eternals. We simply
7:57
Speaker 1: do not have room for more. And her power will
8:00
Speaker 1: be something song based. Yeah yeah, well yeah, okay, okay,
8:04
Speaker 1: maybe she'll have ten rings for each minute of um
8:07
Speaker 1: all too well. Uh, speaking of rings, I haven't watched
8:12
Speaker 1: the Adele one Night Only whatever, but I did see
8:17
Speaker 1: the clip of the proposal that happened at it. Your take,
8:21
Speaker 1: there are only two takes from you. Either you hated
8:24
Speaker 1: it and you found it foul and disgusting, or you
8:26
Speaker 1: loved animated you cry, well, which one do you think
8:30
Speaker 1: it was? I am gonna guess cry no, oh damn it. Okay,
8:36
Speaker 1: so I thought it was. I thought it was disgusting.
8:38
Speaker 1: I hate I hate a surprise proposals in front of
8:43
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and especially in front of celebrities.
8:48
Speaker 1: And it's funny that we're talking about Taylor Swift because
8:50
Speaker 1: this used to happen to her a lot at her
8:53
Speaker 1: meet and greets. I remember when we were both writing
8:57
Speaker 1: together as journalists. Um, there was something that happened where
9:01
Speaker 1: she went to a gay bar to surprise a gay
9:04
Speaker 1: couple and like played something on the guitar while they
9:06
Speaker 1: got engaged. Um, I'm just not into that thing and
9:10
Speaker 1: this Adele thing. Like I guess I'm happy for them,
9:15
Speaker 1: but even though I don't believe in marriage, I don't
9:17
Speaker 1: want anyone to propose to me. But even if I did,
9:20
Speaker 1: that is not how I would want to be proposed to.
9:23
Speaker 1: The gist is congrats to this lucky couple. I hope
9:28
Speaker 1: you are very happy together and have many long years
9:32
Speaker 1: of listening to Adele's music. And after those long years,
9:35
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll probably cry about this in therapy because
9:38
Speaker 1: it'll be maybe an issue in your marriage a decade down. Fran,
9:43
Speaker 1: you know, it's rare that you are caught up on
9:47
Speaker 1: something in pop culture that I am not, but it
9:52
Speaker 1: is not unprecedented. Case in point, you are watching the
9:56
Speaker 1: current season of Real hospives of Salt Lake City, and
9:59
Speaker 1: I am not so as our Salt Lake City correspondent.
10:04
Speaker 1: Can you give me the download on what's going on
10:07
Speaker 1: because I know the past two weeks have been insane,
10:11
Speaker 1: so Rose, I don't want to get too into the
10:14
Speaker 1: into the thick of it, as they say, um into
10:17
Speaker 1: the thick of it, exactly into the thick of it
10:20
Speaker 1: Ocean Kelly Remix, Yes, because you know, we don't want
10:22
Speaker 1: to become a Real Housewives recap podcast. However, Andy did
10:26
Speaker 1: say this was a top five episode for him out
10:29
Speaker 1: of any franchise. You know the gist of the characters.
10:32
Speaker 1: You watched a little bit of the first season crapt
10:35
Speaker 1: and I watched the first episode of this season. Okay,
10:38
Speaker 1: so you're caught up on a little bit, and you
10:40
Speaker 1: also watched you've seen clips online, you watched the previews.
10:42
Speaker 1: The gist is the show has become a C. S
10:47
Speaker 1: I level crime thriller that could potentially even supersed what
10:52
Speaker 1: we were given by Erica Jane in Real Housewives of
10:55
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills. Of course, this is at the federal level,
10:59
Speaker 1: similar to Erica Jane, but the Department of Homeland Security
11:04
Speaker 1: showed up with a swat team to the production and
11:09
Speaker 1: to get gen Shaw, who had fled the scene basically
11:13
Speaker 1: minutes before they arrived. Why did they need a swat
11:16
Speaker 1: team which she armed? So here's the thing is that
11:19
Speaker 1: they did. There was a lot of theories and hypothesizations
11:24
Speaker 1: completely made up word um spewed in the bus as
11:28
Speaker 1: they had basically a six hour bus ride right after
11:31
Speaker 1: the swat team shows up to their bus. Can you
11:33
Speaker 1: imagine that like the gaggiest thing that ever happened, and
11:38
Speaker 1: then you have six hours in a moving vehicle to
11:41
Speaker 1: talk about it. That's that's the dream. That is honestly
11:45
Speaker 1: what made the episode so brilliant because these housewives were
11:50
Speaker 1: breaking it down in real time, almost as if they
11:52
Speaker 1: were doing it with the audience, like trying to figure
11:55
Speaker 1: out what the funk went down. Clearly production was involved
11:59
Speaker 1: in some way. They were like, she's on the bus. Yeah,
12:03
Speaker 1: the production probably tipped off the FBI. I mean, I
12:06
Speaker 1: think it's pretty clear the production tipped off. However, I
12:09
Speaker 1: think what the narrative is is that Meredith Marks did it,
12:12
Speaker 1: thus securing her place as my number one housewife in
12:17
Speaker 1: this franchise and in My Housewives All Stars cast point
12:22
Speaker 1: blank period. The only thing I did see from this
12:25
Speaker 1: episode on Twitter was the clip of Meredith um in
12:29
Speaker 1: the bathtub. Can you please explain what was going on? There?
12:34
Speaker 1: A crucial dichotomy as the women are on this bus,
12:37
Speaker 1: all of them sobbing. I should say, you know, it
12:40
Speaker 1: is very funny, but all of their immediate reactions, with
12:42
Speaker 1: the exception of Jenny, who is iconic and stone face,
12:45
Speaker 1: the whole time they're all crying. They have a friend
12:48
Speaker 1: who has basically lied to them at the federal level,
12:52
Speaker 1: and it's revealed that their friends. Yeah, all one day
12:56
Speaker 1: one day as the SWAT team breaks down my apartment door, um,
13:01
Speaker 1: and uh, they're all like very emotional with this experience, um,
13:05
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what the fuck is going on.
13:07
Speaker 1: Lisa calls all six of her lawyers in an iconic
13:10
Speaker 1: montage that is like in House Lives history, And meanwhile
13:13
Speaker 1: Meredith Mars is drunk toasted in the bath like a
13:18
Speaker 1: huge bubble bath serving honestly me, Um, I think she
13:23
Speaker 1: has like a glass of champagne, or she doesn't, she
13:25
Speaker 1: should and she waits in that bath for hours so
13:28
Speaker 1: that it is the way that she greets the women
13:31
Speaker 1: as they arrived to the vacation home that this six
13:34
Speaker 1: hour bus is going to fully naked. She is definitely
13:37
Speaker 1: fully naked. She might be wearing like a nude panty
13:39
Speaker 1: or something like for production, but the garden venus Mary
13:45
Speaker 1: Cosby was not in the bus. She arrives ahead of
13:47
Speaker 1: time as Meredith Mars has like drawn this long bath
13:50
Speaker 1: obviously just for production purposes, and they sit and gossip
13:54
Speaker 1: about jen Shaw for so long that all the bubbles disintegrate,
13:57
Speaker 1: and so Meredith is like clutched in the corner of
14:00
Speaker 1: the bath, nude, still trying to conceal herself in gossip
14:03
Speaker 1: about federal cases. Okay, what I want to know is
14:06
Speaker 1: in the pantheon of iconic unhinged Housewives moments, Um, where
14:11
Speaker 1: does this stuck up against? Like, but now we've said it,
14:15
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills Charay pulling Kim Zolesiac's wig off on Atlanta
14:21
Speaker 1: and Scary Island from New York. You know what I
14:25
Speaker 1: thought about Scary Island and but now we've said it.
14:29
Speaker 1: When I watched this episode, it has definitely one upped.
14:34
Speaker 1: The Charay pulling off of the wig is definitely more
14:38
Speaker 1: enthralling and engaging than that episode. Compared to Scary Island.
14:43
Speaker 1: Nothing compares to Scary Nothing contars to Scary Island. However,
14:46
Speaker 1: it is definitely in that canon, definitely in top five.
14:50
Speaker 1: I don't know if you plan on watching it, but
14:52
Speaker 1: I do feel like you will be. I will. I
14:54
Speaker 1: will definitely go watch these two episodes where this happened.
14:58
Speaker 1: But I think that's as much I need to see. Okay,
15:01
Speaker 1: t b D, tb D. I hope you enjoy the
15:04
Speaker 1: ride and then that you text me under penalty of death.
15:08
Speaker 1: I absolutely will. Now that we have covered this week's
15:13
Speaker 1: pop culture happenings, let's talk about Red with Bow and Yang.
15:17
Speaker 1: I'm so excited now that we've talked about Taylor's version
15:19
Speaker 1: to really dig into how it has radicalized us as
15:24
Speaker 1: the swifties we are today. Don't don't don't Fran. You
15:43
Speaker 1: have named your stands the fran base. I have not.
15:47
Speaker 1: I have a person, really, and you have named yours
15:50
Speaker 1: the Rosebuds. Well, they actually named themselves the Rosebuds. And
15:54
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if our guest has our guest bow and Yang.
15:59
Speaker 1: Do your stands have name? I don't think they do.
16:01
Speaker 1: I don't wish. I I celebrate fan names I just
16:06
Speaker 1: don't if I think about people who like identify as
16:11
Speaker 1: liking me, then that that really freaks me out. Well,
16:14
Speaker 1: it must be different from for you because you're actually favored.
16:17
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no no no. I already get
16:20
Speaker 1: too many d ms or tags where people will hashtag
16:23
Speaker 1: like yang yang me, and I'm like, that's not for me.
16:26
Speaker 1: You guys know that I don't know what you're talking about.
16:28
Speaker 1: Yangang sounds perfect, stop and it just rolls off the tongue.
16:32
Speaker 1: And it's honestly a very good hashtag. It's a very
16:35
Speaker 1: good like base name. We love a rhyme, we love
16:39
Speaker 1: a rhyme, but like it just there's there. There's there's
16:42
Speaker 1: a lot of baggage that has nothing to do with me,
16:44
Speaker 1: and so therefore I don't I don't want it. You know, well,
16:46
Speaker 1: today we want you to unpack that baggage. Also, if
16:50
Speaker 1: you couldn't tell today we're talking about Red Red, what
16:53
Speaker 1: year was Red? October twelve came out and today is
16:58
Speaker 1: October two to twenty two. The magic of recording this
17:03
Speaker 1: episode is coming to you from the past. Yes, um,
17:05
Speaker 1: it is not actually live and happening as you listen
17:09
Speaker 1: to it, and we are recording it on the anniversary
17:11
Speaker 1: of Red's release. Did you mean for that to happen?
17:14
Speaker 1: I don't know. We did not. And Taylor Swift, as
17:19
Speaker 1: we know, is a numerologist famously puzzles Da Vinci code.
17:24
Speaker 1: And we may not have known that this is happening,
17:27
Speaker 1: but she knew. And all of us are Robert Langdon
17:30
Speaker 1: the main character in the da Vinci code. Well, I
17:33
Speaker 1: might be who's the villain in the da Vinci code?
17:35
Speaker 1: There's um is it Leonardo da Vinci? It's Mary Magdalench.
17:43
Speaker 1: You are Mary Magdalene? You really are? You really are? Bowen? Yeah?
17:47
Speaker 1: Tell us about Red? Okay, so Red it is one
17:50
Speaker 1: of the top albums, and this album is the top.
17:54
Speaker 1: I think this album is. I think this album is
17:57
Speaker 1: like full true true verse. I would say the lead
18:02
Speaker 1: singles are all tops, except for maybe begin Again, which
18:06
Speaker 1: seems like a bottom anthem, not an anthem, just to
18:08
Speaker 1: bottom sort of acoustic plucky song. Anyway. Red is Taylor
18:13
Speaker 1: Swift's fourth studio album. It marked the inflection of her
18:19
Speaker 1: country roots quote unquote into this pop sound that many
18:23
Speaker 1: would say that she had always sort of tipped her
18:26
Speaker 1: way into. Played with it. She played with it well,
18:29
Speaker 1: this was the first like declarative. I guess you could
18:32
Speaker 1: say that was like the first like she build it
18:35
Speaker 1: as like her first true pop album. But Red was
18:38
Speaker 1: like an album of many first This is when it started,
18:41
Speaker 1: This is when it started ended. You know. She comes
18:43
Speaker 1: out with We're Never Getting Back Together, which becomes her
18:47
Speaker 1: first number one single. Yeah, she it's her first album
18:52
Speaker 1: with Max Martin songs and hear that and you can
18:57
Speaker 1: hear that the maximal is the maximum. I was talking
19:00
Speaker 1: to Roles about how this came in the era of
19:02
Speaker 1: music where every song sounded like a pit Bull song. Yes,
19:05
Speaker 1: it's like Gangham style. And this was also the era
19:09
Speaker 1: of dub step, as you can hear on I Knew
19:11
Speaker 1: You Were Trouble and it's I think it's your longest
19:15
Speaker 1: Oh no, I think it was eventually beat by folklore.
19:17
Speaker 1: It was her longest album with the most tracks. It
19:20
Speaker 1: is a long album, a lot of tracks. It's another
19:25
Speaker 1: another kind of maximalism. There's the maximalism of Max Martin
19:29
Speaker 1: being involved, and there's a maximalism of like just the
19:31
Speaker 1: volume and the breadth of the of the song. It
19:33
Speaker 1: was also we could say an emotional maximalism. Sure, wait,
19:39
Speaker 1: go into this time because this is a very well,
19:44
Speaker 1: this is a breakup album. You know, it's a breakup
19:46
Speaker 1: album and it has I think some of her most
19:50
Speaker 1: emotive songs on it. Yes, absolutely. I think it's also
19:54
Speaker 1: the first time where people started to kind of notice
19:59
Speaker 1: this concept of the track five and Taylor Swift albums
20:03
Speaker 1: and now it's like, I guess sort of people vaguely
20:06
Speaker 1: know it maybe, but like typically her track fives on
20:10
Speaker 1: her albums are the most emotionally raw song. What are
20:14
Speaker 1: some of the other track five? Um, all you have
20:17
Speaker 1: to do with stay? Track five on Reputation was delicate? Um.
20:22
Speaker 1: Track five on speak Now is I think Dear John
20:27
Speaker 1: like and white Horse was on Fearless. I can't believe
20:31
Speaker 1: how you are summoning this swifty out of me. Look,
20:34
Speaker 1: so else would we call into the studio? We picked
20:37
Speaker 1: up our Swift follows and it was a red phone.
20:42
Speaker 1: It was a red phone, And then I said, a crisis.
20:46
Speaker 1: Can we what was the red thing? With? Ta okay,
20:50
Speaker 1: here we go. This is the red thing. This is
20:52
Speaker 1: my theory on the Red Thing. Around this time, there
20:55
Speaker 1: was an announcement that they were making a biopic about
20:59
Speaker 1: Joni Mitch Carly Simon and Carol King and I think
21:02
Speaker 1: it's called Girls Like Us or something, And the rumor
21:05
Speaker 1: was and Taylor Swift was vying for the Joni Mitchell role,
21:11
Speaker 1: and Joni Mitchell years later would say, I put a
21:14
Speaker 1: stop to that myself. I don't like her. I don't
21:16
Speaker 1: like Taylor. ID just sown Taylor. But I think Taylor
21:19
Speaker 1: has always held this musical torch for Jonie for obviously.
21:24
Speaker 1: I mean, we all love Joni Mitchell, like everyone loves
21:26
Speaker 1: Johny Mitchell. And I think, honestly, I think Taylor probably
21:28
Speaker 1: was like I want to like transition out of this
21:31
Speaker 1: like teen adjacent country pop style sound into something more
21:37
Speaker 1: quote unquote adult or mature. And she probably saw Blue
21:41
Speaker 1: by Joni Mitchell as this like north Star, Like this
21:45
Speaker 1: is like I want to create an album that has
21:47
Speaker 1: this kind of like not monument I wouldn't say Blue
21:50
Speaker 1: was like monumental, but like there's this like I'm sure
21:53
Speaker 1: she wanted some like big legacy thing like she was
21:57
Speaker 1: going after like a future classic like Blue. And then
22:00
Speaker 1: Read is a very literal song about like synesthesia whatever.
22:04
Speaker 1: But why do all of these artists of synesthesia. I'm
22:08
Speaker 1: so jealous. I don't think it's real. But Taylor doesn't
22:12
Speaker 1: have synesthesia. Well, Lord is going to call the studio
22:15
Speaker 1: right now, and how dare you invisibilize me and my keyboard? Anyways,
22:22
Speaker 1: I feel like the big thing about Taylor and I
22:24
Speaker 1: think that Joni Mitchell of it all is like her
22:26
Speaker 1: mode of like storytelling, and like I think that like
22:29
Speaker 1: the way she kind of like put herself into a
22:31
Speaker 1: into a song and like I guess reveled in her contradictions,
22:35
Speaker 1: especially with this album, was really nice. I feel like
22:38
Speaker 1: before it's like quintessential girl next door. Just what how
22:42
Speaker 1: old was she when she started fifty? She was like
22:44
Speaker 1: she was technically sixteen like when the album released, but
22:48
Speaker 1: she was like she started when she was like fourteen, right,
22:50
Speaker 1: and so in that it's like it was a lot
22:52
Speaker 1: of innocence. She was a little sassy, she had a
22:54
Speaker 1: funny sense of humor. But this was the album where
22:56
Speaker 1: she was just like I came to fuck and these
22:59
Speaker 1: are all of contradictions. It almost like was like a
23:02
Speaker 1: prequel to I was going to say a prequel to
23:05
Speaker 1: a reputation, but I'm not like no no no, no
23:07
Speaker 1: no no no, don't keep going next Yes, followed because
23:10
Speaker 1: so much of it was like the anger of Red
23:13
Speaker 1: and like the kind of that that it was. It
23:15
Speaker 1: was not like a sad breakup album. It wasn't like
23:17
Speaker 1: it was angry. It was receipts, receipts. Well. It is
23:22
Speaker 1: her first album where she acknowledges her fame, like who's
23:25
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift anyway? Like You're much records, much cooler than mine.
23:29
Speaker 1: Like this is like her finally coming into some self awareness,
23:32
Speaker 1: being like I know who I am, how I who
23:34
Speaker 1: I am in this world, who I am to people?
23:37
Speaker 1: And like I think, yes, that is a very astute observation.
23:40
Speaker 1: Also just before I forget, like one, I think the
23:42
Speaker 1: first time she like sings through another person's perspective, I
23:45
Speaker 1: think in Um, I think in Starlight, where she's like
23:48
Speaker 1: basically like singing about like being with like Kennedy and
23:50
Speaker 1: like the sixties or something like she's like traveling through
23:53
Speaker 1: time and like I think, and then like that ends
23:55
Speaker 1: up like being this the this thing that recurs in
23:57
Speaker 1: folklore where she's like different points of view, like when
24:00
Speaker 1: we last Great American Dynasty. There you go like period
24:04
Speaker 1: down my favorite hate, like one of my favorite songs
24:09
Speaker 1: on folklore is last great American dynasty. Like I can
24:12
Speaker 1: be in my car like going hard to it. I would,
24:16
Speaker 1: I would snore the line of Kennemy into American Dynasty. Yeah,
24:20
Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta. I have snorted a lot of
24:26
Speaker 1: Wait where we were we were in Big Bear. Oh yeah,
24:30
Speaker 1: when we were in Big Bear, we did and listened
24:32
Speaker 1: to folk. I'm so jealous we're getting a cabin. What
24:42
Speaker 1: I want to know is when did your relationship with
24:44
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift begin? Yea, it began with Red because I
24:48
Speaker 1: did not care for her until this album because loving
24:51
Speaker 1: her was red. Hev her was product Red was product right.
24:56
Speaker 1: That was like a decade before did I had that?
24:58
Speaker 1: I had at the Flipbone, did of the Motor product right.
25:01
Speaker 1: I guess I'm I'm pro AIDS because I never bought
25:04
Speaker 1: a productress. You are you? You hate YouTube? Who was
25:07
Speaker 1: the least thing bo right? And there's there's another there's
25:11
Speaker 1: a YouTube connection to Red. Oh my god? Is it really?
25:14
Speaker 1: I just I just feel like State of Grace the
25:16
Speaker 1: opening track, my god, it is my favorite. It's my favorite.
25:19
Speaker 1: It's my favorite Taylor Swift song ever. And sisters told me, sister,
25:26
Speaker 1: I feel so held by it is when Okay, when
25:28
Speaker 1: Spotify earlier this year did a thing where it was
25:30
Speaker 1: like gave you the like time. It was like, you're
25:35
Speaker 1: your most listened to artists, and like the songs of
25:38
Speaker 1: theirs that you listened to the most. My list was
25:40
Speaker 1: number one All Too Well, number two State of Grace,
25:44
Speaker 1: and then number three was Macavity from the Taylor Connection.
25:51
Speaker 1: She was in cats Her It was no was Taylor's Taylor.
25:57
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Okay, so play going back to placing
26:01
Speaker 1: Bowen in time and when the Red album came out,
26:04
Speaker 1: what was going on with you? I can so amazing.
26:08
Speaker 1: We're recording in midtown. I was working beautiful midtown, beautiful
26:14
Speaker 1: exotic midtown. Well, this was this was where I was
26:16
Speaker 1: at in my life. I just graduated college. I didn't
26:20
Speaker 1: know what to do, like I like basically through my
26:22
Speaker 1: degree in the trash, my science degree in the trash.
26:25
Speaker 1: Didn't want to go to med school. This was a
26:27
Speaker 1: period of tumult in my life, and I was like,
26:32
Speaker 1: I'll figure it out in the city somehow. I'll just
26:34
Speaker 1: work temp jobs. I was working in a temp job
26:36
Speaker 1: on like fifty seven and Lexington, like so many girls
26:41
Speaker 1: have done before. You truly in a legacy, but truly
26:44
Speaker 1: like lunch breaks you'd walk to like Sutton Place or whatever,
26:49
Speaker 1: go to Essen and like just window shop at Bloomingdale's
26:52
Speaker 1: or something like that was like such a I was
26:54
Speaker 1: like true, like I was. I didn't know back then,
26:57
Speaker 1: but I definitely was depressed at like was going through
27:01
Speaker 1: such a rough patch in my life, like really didn't
27:03
Speaker 1: know what the hell I was gonna do. And like
27:06
Speaker 1: something happened around August when we are never getting back
27:10
Speaker 1: together came out and I was just like, oh my god,
27:13
Speaker 1: this is this is an incredible moment in my life
27:17
Speaker 1: that I am listening to this song and loving like
27:20
Speaker 1: there's something about there was something finally exciting to me
27:23
Speaker 1: about Taylor Swift working with Max Martin because I knew
27:25
Speaker 1: who Max Martin was, and I was just like, I
27:27
Speaker 1: think by by that time, people like had an awareness
27:29
Speaker 1: of who he was, like on a greater on a
27:32
Speaker 1: larger scale. It's when we kind of started to understand
27:34
Speaker 1: the producers who were behind exactly exactly, and like it
27:40
Speaker 1: was just so thrilling to me and we're never something
27:42
Speaker 1: really I don't know why I like confected myself to
27:45
Speaker 1: this song but I was like, I love this singer now.
27:49
Speaker 1: And then in the anticipation for the red release, like
27:53
Speaker 1: I would just go back and listen to her old
27:54
Speaker 1: stuff and I found it like had an appreciation for that.
27:57
Speaker 1: But then literally it was she did almost on Good
28:00
Speaker 1: Morning America. She released a promotional single like the three
28:03
Speaker 1: weeks before the album came out in October and September,
28:06
Speaker 1: and I think State of Grace was like the second
28:09
Speaker 1: one she released. And I listened to the snip of
28:11
Speaker 1: snippet of it on the broadcast of Good Morning America,
28:15
Speaker 1: and I heard the soaring chorus and I was like,
28:18
Speaker 1: what this is? What is she doing? This is going
28:21
Speaker 1: to be incredible. And then the song comes out at
28:23
Speaker 1: midnight and I listened to it and I go, this
28:26
Speaker 1: is one of the best songs in the last like
28:29
Speaker 1: five ever and that is still today. It's a transcendent song.
28:36
Speaker 1: It hits me when I start listening to it. It
28:38
Speaker 1: like starts in my gut, s's way up in my
28:40
Speaker 1: chest and explodes out of me. There are car rides
28:43
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles where I will just listen to State
28:46
Speaker 1: of Grace on repeated sister, and and this morning when
28:50
Speaker 1: I was coming to the studio. There is nothing like
28:52
Speaker 1: walking to the subway and autumnal New York listening to
28:56
Speaker 1: State very it's it's such an autumnal album and then
29:00
Speaker 1: the song and like I was, and then I have
29:03
Speaker 1: like a gustatory association with this album too, because it
29:06
Speaker 1: was like me walking on my lunch break around Midtown
29:09
Speaker 1: clutching a pumpkin spice latte listening to I knew you
29:11
Speaker 1: were trouble, being like, this is fall, this is following
29:14
Speaker 1: New York, My just salad. She now owns Fault. You know.
29:20
Speaker 1: I had a sort of similar experience of Taylor, but
29:23
Speaker 1: like slightly different because I, like, before Red, I really
29:26
Speaker 1: liked individual Taylor songs, Like I was very into our
29:30
Speaker 1: song yes, um maybe like the rhythm of it or something.
29:36
Speaker 1: So did you start with those albums or did you
29:38
Speaker 1: start with Red ASUM know, I started with those albums
29:40
Speaker 1: when she was first breaking out, but really it was
29:43
Speaker 1: song based and I was like, not a Taylor Swift fan.
29:46
Speaker 1: And then when Red came out, that's when I was like, oh,
29:49
Speaker 1: I like Taylor Swift as an artist. And then nine
29:54
Speaker 1: is what radicalized me as a Swifty was what radicalized
29:58
Speaker 1: me as a swift e. UM. I had moved to
30:00
Speaker 1: New York in after so I actually didn't listen to
30:04
Speaker 1: the album in real time, surprising no one. UM, I
30:06
Speaker 1: respect it, thank you. It wasn't not there eventually. I
30:10
Speaker 1: just you know, it's a gap. It it's a gapic
30:13
Speaker 1: playing catch up culturally. Um. And I turned twenty two
30:17
Speaker 1: and there is a song on this album. Yes, that
30:23
Speaker 1: is very good, and I was like, oh my god,
30:25
Speaker 1: I'm happy you've reconfused as well. I think her as
30:30
Speaker 1: a thirty three year old, thirty two year old singing
30:34
Speaker 1: twenty two to us people in our thirties, I think
30:38
Speaker 1: we will connect, we will, we will reconnect to it.
30:41
Speaker 1: There's going to be a new I think the same
30:44
Speaker 1: way with the Taylor's version fifteen. Yeah, there is that.
30:48
Speaker 1: There was this nostalgic aspect like grafted onto it because
30:54
Speaker 1: of the new lens she's singing through yep, yep. And
30:57
Speaker 1: I think I think that is like twenty two is
31:01
Speaker 1: like a really it does manage to capture something about
31:05
Speaker 1: that time in your life. Even for her is just
31:08
Speaker 1: like at that point she was some like millionaire like
31:10
Speaker 1: recording artist still able to like know, Okay, how can
31:15
Speaker 1: I make this somewhat relatable and that's like the store.
31:17
Speaker 1: That's the unifying theory of Taylor Swift is that she
31:20
Speaker 1: is like constantly trying to shift the folk rum on
31:23
Speaker 1: how to make herself relatable but also keep her distance
31:27
Speaker 1: very calibrated. Like I think twenty two is a perfect
31:30
Speaker 1: example of that. And I do think, yes, like there
31:32
Speaker 1: will be a nostalgiographed onto it when it comes out.
31:35
Speaker 1: I I think that's very true, and especially like what
31:40
Speaker 1: you were saying before about how this was the first
31:41
Speaker 1: time she grappled with her fame, because you know, this
31:44
Speaker 1: album was released um during like the pinnacle of hipster
31:49
Speaker 1: and and like irony culture, and so I think I
31:55
Speaker 1: think part of this album was her being like, I
31:59
Speaker 1: know I'm not cool, um and that's fine. I'm gonna
32:03
Speaker 1: just like do this anyway. And it's like a very
32:06
Speaker 1: interesting acknowledgement of like try hardness, Like there's like that
32:11
Speaker 1: Anne Hathaway quality. I mean, but I mean, you know,
32:16
Speaker 1: I was watching I watched The Witches on my flight
32:21
Speaker 1: list rewatch multiple rewatches. That's so true, though, And I like,
32:28
Speaker 1: I think that's something about like Taylor's ethos that has
32:30
Speaker 1: always resonated with me and the thing that I always
32:33
Speaker 1: like latch onto and I say this to Rouse all
32:34
Speaker 1: the time, but like it's like my best and also
32:37
Speaker 1: like my worst quality that I try so hard, you know,
32:40
Speaker 1: like I think that's in a lot of and you've
32:42
Speaker 1: got so far and in the it doesn't really matter.
33:08
Speaker 1: I feel like people our age and I love that
33:11
Speaker 1: there's this gen z Swift e like oh my group
33:13
Speaker 1: that like truly loves her, and they do make the
33:17
Speaker 1: discourse kind of fun, like very funny. This TikTok is
33:20
Speaker 1: exclusively Taylor Swift conspiracy theories. Yeah, it's it's Taylor Swift
33:23
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories about you know, when she's releasing certain things,
33:27
Speaker 1: and it's always so funny to see them like the
33:29
Speaker 1: next day and they were like, well, we're wrong, but
33:33
Speaker 1: but also but then they're like, here's how we might
33:37
Speaker 1: still not be wrong. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're right,
33:41
Speaker 1: and then they're follow up TikTok and then there's you know,
33:45
Speaker 1: like Taylor Swift lesbian conspiracyies UM, and then there's also
33:49
Speaker 1: the conspiracy theories about um, like the Taylor's version of
33:55
Speaker 1: it all. Like a friend was telling me about this
33:58
Speaker 1: theory about the re records and why like sort of
34:03
Speaker 1: the way that they're being staggered out and why we're
34:05
Speaker 1: getting certain things before other things. And the theory is
34:08
Speaker 1: that she's releasing the album's that has the songs that
34:14
Speaker 1: gets licensed the most first. That's who devalue the catalog
34:18
Speaker 1: enough that she can just buy it back and not
34:21
Speaker 1: have to rerecord everything. Like that's why she started with Fearless,
34:26
Speaker 1: which has you know, like love story, you Belong with
34:29
Speaker 1: Me read, you know, has like we're never ever getting
34:32
Speaker 1: back together. She did Wildest Dreams when it was trending
34:35
Speaker 1: on TikTok, so she released the Love Story rereleased when
34:39
Speaker 1: it was on that when it was in an Ami
34:41
Speaker 1: Bryan Reynolds company because their friends are oh yeah yeah yeah,
34:44
Speaker 1: and even and Wildest Dreams, like first it was in
34:47
Speaker 1: that horse movie movie um, and then it was a
34:50
Speaker 1: TikTok sound so um. So I do see a lot
34:56
Speaker 1: of people on TikTok were like, Okay, let's get this
34:58
Speaker 1: song trending, so she has to release it. That's so funny.
35:02
Speaker 1: Speaking of Kennemy, I feel like a lot of I
35:05
Speaker 1: feel like when I was listening to this and I
35:07
Speaker 1: was listening to like aggressiveness and anger. I do feel
35:10
Speaker 1: like a lot of this was um a foray into like,
35:14
Speaker 1: you know, bad Taylor, like she wants to be Bad Taylor,
35:17
Speaker 1: and like I was, I was, you know, looking through
35:20
Speaker 1: her you know, history and career ahead of this podcast.
35:24
Speaker 1: I was reading that when she was on the she
35:26
Speaker 1: was the opening set for like Rascal Flats, which is
35:29
Speaker 1: one of her big breaks or whatever, because the person
35:32
Speaker 1: that they already had scheduled for the opening act played
35:35
Speaker 1: too loud and too long on his first set and
35:38
Speaker 1: they fired him and hired Taylor Swift. And someone from
35:41
Speaker 1: Rascal Flats made a joke to Taylor, and I think
35:43
Speaker 1: she was like fourteen fifteen or whatever made a joke
35:46
Speaker 1: to Taylor and said, you should send him a thank
35:49
Speaker 1: you for like your gold record because it's because he
35:53
Speaker 1: got fired that you whatever. But she did she and
35:58
Speaker 1: thank you. Let her to this guy that was fired.
36:02
Speaker 1: I bring that up because bad Taylor has always been
36:05
Speaker 1: there and this is this was the first glimmers of
36:08
Speaker 1: reputation Taylor. Yes, so what did you think about because
36:12
Speaker 1: like this is for me in cultural memory, this is
36:14
Speaker 1: when she did the Harry Styles impression on what was
36:16
Speaker 1: it the v m A s or the MTV move Right,
36:19
Speaker 1: because they dated briefly during the recording of this. I
36:23
Speaker 1: do think this is when I became more interested in
36:26
Speaker 1: the persona of Taylor because maybe because I was seeing
36:30
Speaker 1: a lot of people like this was the time of
36:32
Speaker 1: my life where I was like really involved in the
36:35
Speaker 1: like underground queer art scene in Brooklyn. I was seeing
36:37
Speaker 1: a lot of people who were mining this for like
36:41
Speaker 1: performance art, like earnestly. Earnestly but also psychotically, of course,
36:47
Speaker 1: but it lends itself to that psycho psychosis. Absolutely. Oh yeah,
36:51
Speaker 1: that's why swifties are a thing. Yes, are crazy. I'm
36:56
Speaker 1: among you. I were crazy. It's the one group I
36:58
Speaker 1: will never piss off. I make sure to to tweet
37:02
Speaker 1: about being swifty, like at least once a month so
37:05
Speaker 1: that when I need them they will be there. And girl,
37:09
Speaker 1: I have crossed the swift Wait really yeah, I would
37:13
Speaker 1: let to talk about it. Do you want to want
37:15
Speaker 1: to go first? Mine's like so embarrassing, minds mind stupid
37:18
Speaker 1: to mine. I was working with Rows at the time
37:20
Speaker 1: out magazine and I it was the year that Casey one,
37:23
Speaker 1: you know, Record of the Year, all his awards, and
37:26
Speaker 1: I was just so in love with her. And at
37:28
Speaker 1: the time I was really angry with Taylor, I think
37:31
Speaker 1: for you know, like the reasons that everyone else was,
37:34
Speaker 1: but also like maybe there there's some unfoundedness just being
37:37
Speaker 1: angry because there are a lot of celebrities that don't
37:38
Speaker 1: talk about Donald Trump. But she was one of the
37:40
Speaker 1: ones where I was just like, come on, girl, like
37:43
Speaker 1: what are you doing? And anyways, we don't have to
37:45
Speaker 1: get into like the documentary of at all and how
37:46
Speaker 1: she reconciled that. But like, I was very annoyed with Taylor,
37:49
Speaker 1: and so I posted a meme of of I feel
37:54
Speaker 1: very innocent and funny meme of um, Kasey must Gray
37:58
Speaker 1: is pushing Taylor Swift off a building. Um, and I
38:00
Speaker 1: remember when you did that, and it did go viral,
38:03
Speaker 1: but like in a in it, I think and in
38:06
Speaker 1: a mixed review, in a mixed reviews way and Swift ease,
38:11
Speaker 1: they I mean, they found me and they found my
38:13
Speaker 1: d M. There was blood in the water, they found
38:15
Speaker 1: my friends d M, they found my thought. How did
38:18
Speaker 1: they get They didn't find Social Security? That I know.
38:22
Speaker 1: I'm I'm grateful that I've survived. This is the bad
38:25
Speaker 1: art friend thing where it's like they can subpoena my
38:27
Speaker 1: mean text, but it was. It was a terrifying moment.
38:31
Speaker 1: I never deleted the tweets, so you can go ahead
38:33
Speaker 1: and retweet and yeah, reinvigorate this, per I mean, that's
38:37
Speaker 1: the thing. I'm a tweet deleter. Yeah, I don't know,
38:40
Speaker 1: want to keep it, not above it. But you know,
38:43
Speaker 1: it was a part of like just that, that the
38:44
Speaker 1: fury because at the time, I still I still was
38:47
Speaker 1: a Taylor Swift Like. I think that's why the disappointment
38:50
Speaker 1: was so strong and care if you yeah, yeah, I
38:52
Speaker 1: remember hearing Matt talk about that, Matt Rogers talking about
38:54
Speaker 1: this even like you can be the most visceral Swifty
38:57
Speaker 1: and still be so disappointed of course. But anyways, longs short,
39:00
Speaker 1: I survived. The Swifties did try to get me fired
39:03
Speaker 1: um on on many accounts, the email from out from
39:06
Speaker 1: all as if they could find we're gonna fire you
39:10
Speaker 1: from being a bit about a pop star, like excuse
39:15
Speaker 1: all my podcast network. Anyways, So what was your swift?
39:20
Speaker 1: My swifty story is similar. It was election day sixteen
39:23
Speaker 1: and we're I don't know if you remember, she was
39:25
Speaker 1: silent the whole the whole election cycle, but she was
39:27
Speaker 1: busy at trying out celebrities on her tour, and then
39:30
Speaker 1: on election day she posted a photo on Instagram of
39:33
Speaker 1: her winning in line at the polls. And then I
39:36
Speaker 1: think I tweeted, yeah, I quote tweeted or I replied,
39:39
Speaker 1: I was like toot too little, too fucking late, or
39:41
Speaker 1: something like that, something so stupid um. And then of
39:45
Speaker 1: course the Swifties saw it and then like tore into me.
39:49
Speaker 1: They didn't fucking go through my ship though, ducks you.
39:52
Speaker 1: But I like made the mistake of replying to a
39:54
Speaker 1: lot of them and being like you're literally twelve, you
39:57
Speaker 1: do not step to this out a ever ever. I
40:02
Speaker 1: know it's such a miscalculation. I mean, I like I
40:04
Speaker 1: didn't know then, we did not know. I mean I
40:07
Speaker 1: will say that, like, I think the Swifties need to
40:10
Speaker 1: own this actually, because if she is acknowledging it in
40:14
Speaker 1: like her interviews and her press that like, yeah, I
40:16
Speaker 1: should have spoken up more during the election cycle than
40:19
Speaker 1: like that's it, Like you have to, like Swifties have to,
40:21
Speaker 1: like we all have to like own that. And I
40:23
Speaker 1: feel somewhat vindicated, And I'm sure I don't know if
40:27
Speaker 1: you do too. I felt very vindicated because she kind
40:29
Speaker 1: of just proved herself like wrong over and over again.
40:32
Speaker 1: And then she she finally disavowed Trump hours before she
40:37
Speaker 1: released her Lover Her Right, and I was like, yeah,
40:41
Speaker 1: right under the wire. But like, I don't know, I
40:43
Speaker 1: feel differently about it now, but but like I feel like, um,
40:47
Speaker 1: I remember when um the what was like the worst song,
40:52
Speaker 1: the me song me, and like so I had to
40:56
Speaker 1: block it on Spotify so it wouldn't come up when
40:59
Speaker 1: I listened to I do miss hey kids spelling and
41:02
Speaker 1: stunt anyway, it's spelling, It's fun. Yeah. But then when
41:06
Speaker 1: she did like the whole the Pride video that like
41:08
Speaker 1: kind of like it's like Google, lgbt Q celebrities filled
41:14
Speaker 1: it whatever, and uum I remember tweeting about that and
41:18
Speaker 1: trying to nuance it and being like, what is this
41:20
Speaker 1: like opportunistic bullshit? I said it in a much more
41:23
Speaker 1: salient and incisive way, of course, but like Taylor Swift
41:27
Speaker 1: fans would like they literally tweeted like like fact, fucking
41:31
Speaker 1: faggot whatever, And then I would go to their like, um,
41:35
Speaker 1: go to their bio, and the link in their bio
41:37
Speaker 1: would be like the equality Like um, it was the
41:42
Speaker 1: Equality Act of linked to their like in their bio
41:46
Speaker 1: calling me a fagot, and I was like, this is
41:49
Speaker 1: this there's just no self there's no self awareness. I
41:52
Speaker 1: think it is swift um. And also this does radiate
41:55
Speaker 1: out to all of the stand um stands do the
41:58
Speaker 1: same thing as It's just like they they have to
42:04
Speaker 1: love their faith in a way that is destructive, that
42:09
Speaker 1: is destructive and does not allow for nuance. Because and
42:12
Speaker 1: I used to find this a lot as a gaga
42:15
Speaker 1: Stan and you and I have talked about this before. Um,
42:18
Speaker 1: you know, like part of part of my like loving
42:20
Speaker 1: an artist is being critical of them. And it's unfortunate
42:24
Speaker 1: that especially a lot of these young stands, I feel
42:27
Speaker 1: like they have to love these pop stars who will
42:31
Speaker 1: never be perfect in a way in which they are
42:34
Speaker 1: always right about everything and they can never be critical
42:37
Speaker 1: about them at all, and anyone who is must literally die. Yeah, okay,
42:42
Speaker 1: that's so funny that you said that. I unfortunately searched
42:45
Speaker 1: Taylor on like my Twitter and I found this. Yes,
42:50
Speaker 1: this is this is the This is a classic swiftymeme.
42:53
Speaker 1: Someone who's handles at Taylor ts so an underscore, I
42:58
Speaker 1: want to kill myself. They tweeted, and then and then
43:01
Speaker 1: the person replying, wait to lover drops please, we can't
43:04
Speaker 1: lose sales. That's a nice Yeah, well as is the
43:07
Speaker 1: Swifty who went to prison because she because she refused
43:12
Speaker 1: to join the Israeli army. Oh my god. Well then
43:17
Speaker 1: we obviously are on hurt. We were, yeah, yeah, because
43:21
Speaker 1: we I mean, this podcast supports BDS. Yes, comrade, Swift, Comrade,
43:28
Speaker 1: there is an overlap between like just a hardcore radical
43:32
Speaker 1: socialists and swifties. Well, I mean Red Red Red the
43:37
Speaker 1: communist and she was letting us know along with a
43:41
Speaker 1: little wink or or it's like the log having Republican anthelm,
43:47
Speaker 1: maybe being facetious, but you could be right. You could
43:54
Speaker 1: be right about it. So how do you think Taylor
43:57
Speaker 1: changed after Red? I think she changed in every way,
44:01
Speaker 1: Like this is what I'm saying, Like there was I
44:03
Speaker 1: think there was this line and the people will will
44:05
Speaker 1: say that it's I think like it read. And so
44:10
Speaker 1: much has been said about how Taylor Swift is a
44:13
Speaker 1: very good quote unquote business person as far as like
44:17
Speaker 1: laying out a strategy. But I do think this was
44:19
Speaker 1: a conscious choice for her to be like, let me
44:22
Speaker 1: do a transitional album. I mean, let me not fully crossover,
44:26
Speaker 1: yet let me like persuasively let everybody know that I
44:33
Speaker 1: can do the pop thing by releasing this album that
44:36
Speaker 1: is like a very carefully calibrated blend between like country
44:40
Speaker 1: and pop and some almost like country. Paris will site, Well,
44:42
Speaker 1: she was always pop, but I feel like this was
44:44
Speaker 1: like the album that she needed to put out in
44:47
Speaker 1: order to like get to version of Taylor Swift. But
44:50
Speaker 1: she didn't sell out this, like she didn't like half
44:54
Speaker 1: asked the fact that this was a transitional album. She
44:56
Speaker 1: like really poured everything into it. And I think I
44:59
Speaker 1: think it's I really think it's one of the best albums.
45:02
Speaker 1: And where does it fall for you? Okay on the
45:06
Speaker 1: on your ranking of Taylor Swift album this is Wild,
45:13
Speaker 1: I would I will say it's number two after after
45:20
Speaker 1: being edged out by Reputation. No, I was not. I know,
45:29
Speaker 1: I know people a second everybody everybody hold on I
45:34
Speaker 1: think reputation. I listened back to and I go, this
45:37
Speaker 1: is the only album where I think she's making like
45:39
Speaker 1: an observation about society or about the world or about herself,
45:44
Speaker 1: Like I just it is it isn't there's an observation
45:48
Speaker 1: that's like ingrained in the entire thing. Red is like
45:53
Speaker 1: this like beautiful maximalist thing of like let me try
45:56
Speaker 1: all of these things at once and you're and it
45:59
Speaker 1: will work. Um. And so that's why I like read
46:04
Speaker 1: we we don't have to get too much into reputation
46:06
Speaker 1: and why I love it. But I do fucking love
46:08
Speaker 1: that album despite hating it when it first came out,
46:11
Speaker 1: being like this is crazy. This is for me, of
46:14
Speaker 1: all the Taylor albums, like, besides Folklore, Reputation feels like
46:18
Speaker 1: the one that I is the most lived in for me. Yes,
46:22
Speaker 1: like it was such I spent so much time with
46:25
Speaker 1: it when it came out. It does not quite make
46:28
Speaker 1: it to the top of the list for me. And
46:32
Speaker 1: I want to know, do you think has Folklore? Have
46:35
Speaker 1: Folklore and Evermore been out long enough for you to
46:37
Speaker 1: place them? I think so because I think I've gotten
46:40
Speaker 1: to that point as well, only just recently. Yeah, and
46:44
Speaker 1: but we talked about this, so you're more of an
46:45
Speaker 1: Evermore girl. No, I'm more of a Folklore girl. God
46:48
Speaker 1: blessed and Folklore is my favorite Taylor Swift album. Folklore
46:53
Speaker 1: is up there. It's it's it's the three our reputation,
46:56
Speaker 1: Read and Folklore just like very closely orbiting each other.
46:59
Speaker 1: For me, it's Folklore red and very good. I love
47:05
Speaker 1: so much, excellent album. I think Read and stuff for
47:10
Speaker 1: this thing where they dip in the second half a
47:12
Speaker 1: little bit too much. Sure Folklore is like virtuosic and
47:16
Speaker 1: likes such. It was so like she really stuck the
47:20
Speaker 1: landing on it, and like what an incredible album reputation
47:23
Speaker 1: is Like I'll killer no filler to me, every no
47:28
Speaker 1: truly no skips and it's about like fifteen tracks, like
47:31
Speaker 1: and it says something about like wow, like the only
47:34
Speaker 1: thing you have at the end of the day is yourself,
47:36
Speaker 1: even when you're someone like Taylor Swift and you have
47:38
Speaker 1: all like in you know you or like when when
47:42
Speaker 1: people are fucking like trying to tear you down, like
47:46
Speaker 1: you have to have this like solid, solid sense of
47:50
Speaker 1: self in order to survive something that seems completely unprocessable.
47:55
Speaker 1: Like I think, I don't know, this is so gross,
47:58
Speaker 1: but I listened to that album now and I think
48:00
Speaker 1: this is like the this is the most astute meditation
48:05
Speaker 1: on fame that I've ever like really encountered, and like
48:08
Speaker 1: I'll relate to it in that way a little bit um,
48:11
Speaker 1: but anyway that those are my three. I also feel
48:13
Speaker 1: like her like, um, the kind of thing that she
48:17
Speaker 1: was drawing into question with the album about like fame
48:19
Speaker 1: and like how um we consume celebrity. I think that
48:23
Speaker 1: the critical response to reputation and how people are kind
48:26
Speaker 1: of immediately flop. Yeah, they kind of proved her right
48:30
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. I mean, because like I feel like when
48:35
Speaker 1: I listened to some was like my gateway drug and
48:38
Speaker 1: too Taylor. I guess technically twenty two, if I were
48:41
Speaker 1: to like metaphorize this, okay, twenty two is like me
48:44
Speaker 1: having a little bit of weed part of somebody's like
48:48
Speaker 1: high school party. And then in nineteen in nineteen nine
48:51
Speaker 1: is like in the boom boom room and I'm like
48:52
Speaker 1: I'm doing coked. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
48:55
Speaker 1: And so when love that metaphor yeah, thank you, thank you,
49:00
Speaker 1: um blank space was like I don't know, goodbye. Have
49:05
Speaker 1: I ever listened to a song that many times in
49:08
Speaker 1: a row. I remember when the second the song came out,
49:11
Speaker 1: I was late to something and I stood outside already
49:17
Speaker 1: like fifteen, stood outside to watch the video on my phone.
49:20
Speaker 1: It was it really was. And the thing about that
49:23
Speaker 1: video was the way she drew so much even more
49:28
Speaker 1: She's always been like drawn self awareness into her work,
49:30
Speaker 1: but that was a moment where she was like, this
49:32
Speaker 1: is the caricature of me, and I know you think
49:34
Speaker 1: it's funny and I think it's funny too, and that
49:36
Speaker 1: grew into like reputation, you know. I think Blank Spaces
49:39
Speaker 1: when she reached the singularity, when it was like, oh,
49:43
Speaker 1: everyone has heard this song on this video and do
49:47
Speaker 1: you remember the there was like a Grammy performance she did.
49:51
Speaker 1: I was just about to bring this up and it's
49:52
Speaker 1: such a good fucking performance. Yeah, I was, okay, So
49:56
Speaker 1: I was actually talking about one of the earlier performances
49:58
Speaker 1: of Blank Space she did where she was like levitating
50:01
Speaker 1: and there was like fire. Yeah, wait, what performance are
50:06
Speaker 1: you talking about, though, I'm talking about Grammy Museum where
50:08
Speaker 1: she's on the acoustic guitar. Well that's also I'm sorry, yeah,
50:13
Speaker 1: but but let's talk about that because that performance of
50:16
Speaker 1: Wildest Dreams on the electric guitar, and she she she
50:21
Speaker 1: had never sounded better, and I think that that's none
50:24
Speaker 1: of her top vocal performances. She's the vocalist, she is
50:29
Speaker 1: without a doubt and like truly, like I also just
50:32
Speaker 1: love the last full minute of twenty two. Sorry I'm
50:35
Speaker 1: jumping all over the place, but the last fumnute of
50:36
Speaker 1: twenty two is just her belting her fucking tits off,
50:39
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, yeah, like just like it's like any
50:43
Speaker 1: like just going crazy for a full minute, like like,
50:46
Speaker 1: go back and listen to it. The last minute of
50:48
Speaker 1: this four minute long song. A quarter of this song,
50:50
Speaker 1: the last quarter of this song was heard just fat wailing. Anyway.
50:54
Speaker 1: What do we think? Grammy performance? Amazing? I don't know
50:57
Speaker 1: how much more I can say about it. It's just
50:59
Speaker 1: like so it's so cathartic to watch, and um, it
51:03
Speaker 1: feels like a triumphant moment for her, such a triumph
51:07
Speaker 1: and her in that like black turtleneck with the guitar
51:09
Speaker 1: and she her her hair was so good, speaking of
51:14
Speaker 1: her hair was red when she got bangs. Red was
51:17
Speaker 1: when she got was red, was when she si yes,
51:19
Speaker 1: red was when she straightened her hair and then got bangs. Yes,
51:24
Speaker 1: god wait that is oh my gosh, yeah, the ramification
51:29
Speaker 1: truly getting bangs and straightening her hair and she has
51:33
Speaker 1: had bangs ever since. In the same timespan where Joni
51:38
Speaker 1: Mitchell said you should fucking die. Um, that was really hard.
51:43
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm kind of Joonie is like one of
51:45
Speaker 1: my be all end alls, and I'm really disappointed at her.
51:47
Speaker 1: Well it's like, but I think, but you can't be
51:50
Speaker 1: like that girl. But I think she but like it
51:55
Speaker 1: does like play into the narrative of Taylor Swift, which
51:58
Speaker 1: is that even though she didn't get that like co
52:01
Speaker 1: sign from Joni Mitchell, Red is still her blue, and
52:05
Speaker 1: it is still her It is still her blue, and
52:07
Speaker 1: it is as I think impactful for people of our
52:10
Speaker 1: generation as Blue probably was for people of that generation.
52:16
Speaker 1: I think, so, I really think so. I mean it's
52:18
Speaker 1: like Blue. I would I would honestly say that like
52:20
Speaker 1: control by scissors, like our generations Blue. That's real, that's
52:26
Speaker 1: really true. That's really true. But like Red is just
52:28
Speaker 1: this like Red is like epic. I don't think Blue
52:31
Speaker 1: is like epic. Red is very restrained. Red is like expansive. Yeah,
52:37
Speaker 1: but but also like what Red does is like her
52:42
Speaker 1: songwriting has never been better. Besides maybe like folks, I
52:46
Speaker 1: do think some of the songwriting on folklore is truly
52:50
Speaker 1: still like poetic. But some of my favorite. I think
52:54
Speaker 1: the way that she talked about herself and her relationships
52:58
Speaker 1: in the lyricism of it is incredible. And she was literally,
53:02
Speaker 1: like even before she turned years old, writing these songs,
53:06
Speaker 1: like writing a song like Treacherous where the structure is
53:10
Speaker 1: verse mini chorus, verse, mini chorus, full like post chorus, slash,
53:15
Speaker 1: like bridge ish into like another mini course into like
53:20
Speaker 1: an even bigger post course, like I love Differ so
53:24
Speaker 1: much did I say this already? It's an important album
53:26
Speaker 1: because it was important for Taylor in that it made
53:30
Speaker 1: Taylor like who she is now. It's when she crystallized
53:35
Speaker 1: the final form final form. Sorry I'm being self referential awful,
53:40
Speaker 1: but like I again, I did not care for I
53:43
Speaker 1: was ambivalent about Taylor Swift until read and then something
53:46
Speaker 1: just clipped where I was like, I'm going to be
53:48
Speaker 1: obsessed with you for the rest of my life. Well,
54:10
Speaker 1: you know, we've talked a lot today about how formative
54:14
Speaker 1: the album Red was UM, and we thought it would
54:18
Speaker 1: be fun to talk, you know, like we talk a
54:20
Speaker 1: lot on this podcast about things that were really important
54:23
Speaker 1: to us in our childhoods UM and how we like
54:26
Speaker 1: became the people we are, So we thought it would
54:28
Speaker 1: be fun to have you tell us about the Bow
54:32
Speaker 1: and Yang starter pack? What are the items the things
54:36
Speaker 1: in your arsenal as a kid that you know you
54:39
Speaker 1: either always need to have a round or define who
54:41
Speaker 1: you were. This is this is a really perfect framework
54:45
Speaker 1: of a question of a prompt. Um, I will say
54:51
Speaker 1: random like a sampling. It's like, let's talk about love
54:55
Speaker 1: by Celine dion Um, It's m a game Boy with
55:02
Speaker 1: like Kirby Tilton, Tumble and Pokemon Blue, Pokemon Crystal, and
55:08
Speaker 1: then like Bagel bites from Costco. You're a Costco girl, yeah,
55:13
Speaker 1: Costco girl, and then a girl oh yes, yes, yes
55:18
Speaker 1: of course, and then um, how many how many items
55:21
Speaker 1: do people typically bottle off? You're the first one, okay,
55:25
Speaker 1: as they want? Those are three? Those are those are
55:28
Speaker 1: the three pillars Bagel Bites, game Boy and and and Selene.
55:32
Speaker 1: But then like it's it's honestly like it was. It
55:35
Speaker 1: was a lot of like me trying to like draw
55:38
Speaker 1: my own and original anime characters and like having no
55:42
Speaker 1: one to show them too, because it was like I
55:44
Speaker 1: knew it was a little too embarrassing, like having some
55:47
Speaker 1: shame already built into like my work and my output
55:50
Speaker 1: is like truly, like it is like since day one,
55:54
Speaker 1: like a part of like since day one, you had
55:57
Speaker 1: to have learned at some point drawing. Yeah, I love
56:00
Speaker 1: to draw. No, no no, no, I mean the shame, the shame.
56:02
Speaker 1: Oh sure, sure were cultured into shame. But like I
56:06
Speaker 1: would like draw stuff and then show it to people
56:10
Speaker 1: at school, and for a period of time it was
56:11
Speaker 1: like cool that I could do this, and then it
56:13
Speaker 1: was like and then it was just it would just
56:15
Speaker 1: literally be me like getting lost for hours just at
56:19
Speaker 1: my desk with like reams of paper that my dad
56:22
Speaker 1: would bring home from his office, um, and I would
56:26
Speaker 1: just draw characters, cut them out, put them in like
56:29
Speaker 1: a photo album with like a plastic film, and I
56:32
Speaker 1: would just flipped through it and like beat out a
56:34
Speaker 1: whole season of like some anime that would never get
56:37
Speaker 1: made in my head. But that was like that was
56:39
Speaker 1: like a writer early thing where it was like, oh,
56:41
Speaker 1: I'm like your story, story telling, world building, yeah exactly. Okay,
56:47
Speaker 1: sorry to expose us, but did you know that Rose
56:49
Speaker 1: and I were also closeted childhood drawers. We were so
56:54
Speaker 1: much anime stuff mythology. Huh, Like you know who else?
56:59
Speaker 1: Patty Harrison and I think there's like there's like we
57:01
Speaker 1: all need to come out of the shadows with this
57:06
Speaker 1: and make an adult cartoon series, which no one's ever done.
57:10
Speaker 1: But but fran is still a pretty good artist. He
57:13
Speaker 1: actually drew the mock up for our like our photo
57:16
Speaker 1: shoot like cover art that we're doing. So I my
57:21
Speaker 1: starter pack would be like Jagged Little Pill. The album. Um,
57:28
Speaker 1: it would be some book and I'm going to say
57:32
Speaker 1: right now, since it's spooky season, it would be Curses Incorporated,
57:36
Speaker 1: which is an anthology series of like modern of like
57:40
Speaker 1: modern spooky stories about a boy who like buys hexes online.
57:45
Speaker 1: I'm cool and um oh, and then it would be
57:50
Speaker 1: the afghan that my grandma nit me that I used
57:53
Speaker 1: to wrap around myself as a dress. Was like I'm
57:57
Speaker 1: a girl and I used to be Dorothy from the
57:59
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz. There you go. Wow, I love that. Okay.
58:04
Speaker 1: Mine was definitely um Hotel Paper by Michelle Brand checked
58:09
Speaker 1: out from the library. I didn't even own it. Oh
58:11
Speaker 1: my god, We're going to have to do a Michelle
58:13
Speaker 1: Branch episode. Oh yeah, without a doubt that she was
58:15
Speaker 1: a big part of my secular awakening when I was
58:18
Speaker 1: like I discovered that everyone else wasn't listening to like
58:21
Speaker 1: Christian Christian reliant kay and it actually people also listen
58:25
Speaker 1: to Michelle Branch. Oh my god, it's so important. I
58:27
Speaker 1: didn't know you were a Christian rock person for a second.
58:30
Speaker 1: I know the words to almost every single, every single
58:35
Speaker 1: Relying Case song in their first five albums. I've never
58:38
Speaker 1: talked to you about my switch foot phase in like
58:40
Speaker 1: middle school, high school, I had a switch with it
58:44
Speaker 1: was it was just that it was the it was
58:46
Speaker 1: right after a watch to remember when like they really
58:48
Speaker 1: were like big a cross overstream. It was there red.
58:53
Speaker 1: It was there red, Remember there Red? But then you
58:56
Speaker 1: know what I like, I was obsessed. I thought, you know,
58:59
Speaker 1: I thought the song to any four, which is the
59:01
Speaker 1: last song off of that album, that was like the
59:03
Speaker 1: best song of all time. I would and we were
59:06
Speaker 1: like twelve, Well one day I'll be twenty four and
59:09
Speaker 1: this is going to be so meaningful. And then you
59:11
Speaker 1: turned twenty four and you were like Switch, which I
59:14
Speaker 1: mean like the fact that like we're like shipping on
59:16
Speaker 1: twenty four by Switch, but we're still like beautiful revering Taylor.
59:20
Speaker 1: That is the power of Taylor Taylor. Yeah, I mean,
59:23
Speaker 1: like twenty one. Yes, is there? I don't know If
59:28
Speaker 1: there an, I don't know. I'm trying to do numerology
59:30
Speaker 1: with no with no landing point. Anyways. Also, in my
59:33
Speaker 1: started back Um Harvest moon On, Oh my gosh, I
59:37
Speaker 1: loved like um games without any conflict at yes, farming
59:41
Speaker 1: game if you don't know it, Um. I was an
59:43
Speaker 1: oregonmy kid. Instead of having friends, I did Oregon. I
59:47
Speaker 1: wanted to do Oregon. I could make paper cranes really well,
59:52
Speaker 1: so could on. I can make a lot of things.
59:53
Speaker 1: I could still make a paper crane. Today had stacks
59:56
Speaker 1: of Oregony books and I had an oregonmy party, which
59:59
Speaker 1: is it was really sad. I invited three of my
1:00:02
Speaker 1: crushes and they all came. That's cute. So you you
1:00:04
Speaker 1: were into video games, Yeah, I don't. I don't like
1:00:09
Speaker 1: games of any kind. I respect. That's kind of surprising
1:00:12
Speaker 1: to me because you were so into like fantasy and
1:00:15
Speaker 1: sci fi and so many things that come with the
1:00:17
Speaker 1: culture of gaming. Yeah, but I'm I like the actual story.
1:00:21
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to like play I would
1:00:24
Speaker 1: I would rather read a book than play a game. Sure,
1:00:27
Speaker 1: but now what now? What? Now? What I know some
1:00:30
Speaker 1: people do is they'll just watch a playthrough on like YouTube,
1:00:33
Speaker 1: or they'll just watch the cut scenes of a game.
1:00:35
Speaker 1: So I might just start doing this now with like,
1:00:37
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I haven't played the Last of Us, and
1:00:39
Speaker 1: I'm like, I need to know what this game is
1:00:42
Speaker 1: and I need to like I might just like sit
1:00:43
Speaker 1: down and watch like an eight hour play through anyway, Sorry,
1:00:46
Speaker 1: why not when it sounds fun? Do you think Taylor games? No, okay,
1:00:50
Speaker 1: and that's okay, she's too disciplined. Like Taylor is the
1:00:55
Speaker 1: girl that watches her boyfriend play video games. You know,
1:00:58
Speaker 1: that's like a whole I think. I think Joe is
1:01:01
Speaker 1: like in his dog crate with the with the Nintendo switch,
1:01:05
Speaker 1: and Taylor is somewhere else. Oh I see, yeah, to
1:01:08
Speaker 1: get the kid that the thing. Yeah. The only other
1:01:11
Speaker 1: thing I could think of, maybe that Rose and I
1:01:13
Speaker 1: have in common is um Delaire's Big Book of Greekness.
1:01:16
Speaker 1: That's definitely one of the past things that I started drawing.
1:01:21
Speaker 1: It's one of my first like sexual awakenings. Remember being
1:01:24
Speaker 1: horny for my own drawings. Yes, oh my god. I
1:01:27
Speaker 1: would draw like naked dude, yeah, and I'd be like, oh,
1:01:30
Speaker 1: oh no, is this this is going to be a problem,
1:01:33
Speaker 1: like I remember wow. Also when my starter pack would
1:01:37
Speaker 1: be Muppet Treasure Island the movie um and and um
1:01:43
Speaker 1: a um. And this is not like a specific action figure,
1:01:47
Speaker 1: but this is something that I used to do with
1:01:48
Speaker 1: my action figures. I might have told you this before.
1:01:51
Speaker 1: When I would get like an action figure as a
1:01:53
Speaker 1: gift for my birthday or for Hanukah, I would open
1:01:57
Speaker 1: it up, you know, and be like yeah. And then
1:01:59
Speaker 1: that night I would um put it back in the packaging,
1:02:03
Speaker 1: tape it back up, and wrap it again so that
1:02:05
Speaker 1: I could open it again. But that's sick, that's erotic,
1:02:11
Speaker 1: because for me, it wasn't about the thing itself. It
1:02:14
Speaker 1: was about the experience of like opening it and the
1:02:17
Speaker 1: thrill of that. But honestly, like very developed of you
1:02:21
Speaker 1: to like pinpoint that as like the moment, like the
1:02:24
Speaker 1: thrilling moment, the moment of pleasure or whatever, and then
1:02:27
Speaker 1: you recreate that and restage that like that is. But
1:02:30
Speaker 1: it was never the same. It was never the wow.
1:02:34
Speaker 1: I Love Love and I'm I'm sitting with two Henson
1:02:37
Speaker 1: heads YouTube YouTube. Both loved them Apo Love, Miss Piggy
1:02:42
Speaker 1: Love Kermit. I had a Kermit stuffed animal that like
1:02:46
Speaker 1: I ran ragged. Kermit's hot, Kermit's hot, Kermit is hot. Yeah, Kermit,
1:02:53
Speaker 1: I'm doing the Kermit Arms. Listeners, you can tweet us
1:03:00
Speaker 1: your takes on this week's episode. I'm actually really excited
1:03:03
Speaker 1: to know what y'all think of the podcast. Rose. Are
1:03:06
Speaker 1: you excited? Rose? Yes? But only if it's positive? Okay,
1:03:08
Speaker 1: no critiquet. I'm your co host fran Toronto. You can
1:03:12
Speaker 1: find me at Franz Squish co on any social media
1:03:14
Speaker 1: you want. I'm Rose damn You. You can find me
1:03:16
Speaker 1: out Rose Damn you on Twitter and Instagram. You can
1:03:19
Speaker 1: subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts,
1:03:22
Speaker 1: and definitely leave us a review because it helps brand
1:03:25
Speaker 1: new podcast quite a lot. Like a Virgin is an
1:03:27
Speaker 1: i Heeart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter, with
1:03:30
Speaker 1: support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch and
1:03:34
Speaker 1: Nikki Utour. Until next week, See You Later Visions Chow.
1:03:44
Speaker 1: Our producer Phoebe has told us that our podcast is
1:03:46
Speaker 1: a Scorpio Sun Aquarius moon leave ro rising. So do
1:03:51
Speaker 1: with that? Why you will do that? Why you will
1:03:54
Speaker 1: leave a comment? If you have an opinion about it,
1:04:04
Speaker 1: Diam