Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Jessamy Walker - Building your own financial planning firm, AR over DA and the power of SEO

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Jessamy Walker - Building your own financial planning firm, AR over DA and the power of SEO · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is Jesseme Walker.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jeseme is a business owner.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: She's the MD of Brown Dog Financial Planning.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: She's got extensive experience working within financial services, starting out in stockbroking, power planning, and eventually moving into an employed financial planner role, self-employed as a registered individual, and then running her own firm as an appointed representative.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: So she's got lots to share today.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy the podcast.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So hi Jessime, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hi Sam.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful, fantastic.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so um Jessime, um, yeah, so thanks for joining me today.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the Financial Planner Life podcast is all about financial planners from sort of all sort of different levels, really, whether they're employed, self-employed, run their own businesses, power planners, sharing their stories as to why they got within why they became a financial planner and really their journey within financial planning, where it's taking them.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, you know, you're the the MD there, aren't you, of ground dog financial planning?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um today our guests would be our sort of listeners would love to hear about your journey because you've gone from employed into self-employed, running your own business and employing people, and you know, that in its own right isn't an easy feat.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um you'll have some realities to be able to share about that within uh your career.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um really looking forward to asking some questions about that.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so Jessime, really, my first question to you really is first off, is how did you end up getting into financial planning?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like so many people, by accident, probably.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um by training, I'm a marine biologist.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: I used to count sea urchins and fish on the tropical reef and the Indian Ocean.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Why wouldn't I carry on doing that?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um came back from Kenya and went temping, and one of my temp jobs was into a stockbroker's office.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um admin, you know, nothing, it was meant to be a three-month job.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I loved it and stayed eight years and it it just uh tech bubble, made redundant, um fed up with commuting into London by that stage.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'd I'd moved out and it was it was just too many early mornings for an 8:30 stock market start.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I got myself a job um probably about 15 minutes from home as a paraplanner and just went from there.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, just say marine biologists, first of all, that sounds pretty cool.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Over in Where, Kenya.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Literally what was that what you studied for then, was it?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I did a marine biology degree.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, went off uh uh IUCN or uh an international conservation um group, went and worked for them, um, various projects.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's one of those things that either you go into properly and you go and do a PhD and really, really drill down into it, or you get stuck as the guy on the beach counting stuff.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it got to the stage where I was gonna get stuck um living on the beach, having a great time, but no, no prospects, no pension.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna get stuck there.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have been able to affording a plane ticket to go somewhere else just didn't happen.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a job people volunteer to do, so you don't get paid much for it.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were at university then, that was what you were was wasn't or or whether you were at university, I don't think did you go to university?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that that was what you were studying to do then, marine biology.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was your sort of passion from a younger age.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So financial services wasn't nothing, you know, it wasn't in your sort of plan.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know it existed.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't even know it existed, yeah.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: There we go, precisely.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's very much um for a lot of people, you know, uh people who are leaving university right now.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's some that will consider financial services as a route to get into, but you know, the types of things they they they hear about is analysts or stockbroker or investment management or private banking or something like that.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to some things like financial planning, for instance, they don't really have a great deal of knowledge around really what financial planning actually is from a university perspective.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the education is starting to come in and people are starting to learn a little bit more about it.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is part of the podcast, really.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to bridge that gap.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if anyone's listening from university, they can understand a bit more about financial planning.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just that whole thing that they there isn't even a module in the sixth form that says here, this is how a credit card works, don't you know, use one sensibly, this is what a mortgage is.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, nothing.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's one of my frustrations that that there is no education about it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then suddenly it kind of drops in at much later life that oh, but you should know how to do all these things, shouldn't you?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you kind of dump in it when you've when you've when you've spent a bit of money and got yourself into debt or something like that, or you've got to buy a house or something.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: You don't really get taught the the fundamentals of money financial education at all, do you?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've met a few people, like there's a few guys that are doing it for child children now.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they've set up sort of financial education for children and trying to teach children from as young as four or five years old about savings and all that kind of thing.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um apparently, like uh most of the sort of things a child would learn is really relatively from around four or five years old.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So they start to ingrain those learning habits.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and apparently getting stuck in at that age with money is as basic as it can be, like having a picky bank, and this is how much money you're putting in there, and this is how much goes here is is is good.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't done that yet.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a daughter who's four four years old.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like money, money, give me money.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Doing some behavioral finance stuff recently, apparently we um our beliefs and our our concepts around money are we have this period of time from about four to about seven where we just absolutely believe what we're told with no reasoning.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then from seven, I'm not quite sure where the ages are, but from seven onwards, we start to apply reasoning to it.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we a lot of our own beliefs about money and the way we behave around money are are harked back to then.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're told, oh, there isn't any for that, money doesn't grow on trees, then often people like that come from that sort of a background are very secure, savor, don't spend it, it's dangerous.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you come from a background that is it's all okay, it doesn't matter so much, you we take that on board, and they tend to be people that are more relaxed around it, much less, much less worries around money.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes back from when you're four, five.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: We don't stand a chance for any, do we?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, exactly.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everyone, so yeah, people worry about money, don't they?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like one of the biggest, one of the biggest worries, and it causes some serious mental health issues as well, doesn't it?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I think that's why I'm liking so much around, I'm seeing so much more around financial well-being and the way financial planning is being positioned as financial well-being, and also like financial coaches, financial planning coaches.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's all very um very modern and very forward-thinking.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's lots of companies that are coming up.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was on the phone yesterday to um Scott Stevens, who's head of Quilter, um, and he was talking about um the Australian well-being, they've got a big well-being initiative, haven't they, Court as at the moment?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they have, yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think they any any most of the large companies are kind of pushing the whole the whole financial well-being.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: He was mentioning about like um he's got a few connections over in Australia, and he was saying about um the kind of approach over in Australia is this five is this financial coaching.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So going out there as like financial coaches, having the content, you know, tackling real basic kind of financial coaching needs, put it on a subscription basis, and then that filters then into the financial planners behind the scenes.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, more like power planners who do all the research, do all of that.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the actual coaches are kind of like almost um well, they're coaches opposed to what we consider them to be financial planners, you know, sitting there talking about the ins and outs of a pension.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: They're talking about things that are a bit more kind of behavioural psychology-based.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: So exactly that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm halfway through well, I've just done the first main chunk of a financial coaching course.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Have you?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think it it it it matters.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: It it you know, you I could turn around and say, here, these are the things you should do with your money.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: But if that doesn't fit with your personality type, so so me, for example, um, I have to save money into a pension or an account that I can't see because otherwise I see something shiny and spend it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it has to be hidden away from me almost a little bit.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I know that's how I behave, so therefore I put my money into a you know, I've got a chunk of money in premium bonds because it takes four days to get it back.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've gone past buying the shiny impulsive shopping thing by then.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: So just managing how it works.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Out of sight, out of mind, that type of approach.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm a bit like that.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a bit like that at the moment.
• 9:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, cool.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk a little bit about your career today then.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you you were a marine biologist, didn't fancy standing in the sea counting sea urchins.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: You then came back to the UK and you ended up getting a job as an administrator for a stockbroker uh in London.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so stockbroker in the city.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Did you not fancy or you know, your did you not fancy getting into stockbroking?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Was that did you stick at administration for so many years?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: What what was you know, what did you do for that whilst you were working there?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And who was it?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Was it Killik and Kay, wasn't it?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was, yes.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I did admin for them for probably 18 months, two years.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then um they put in graduate training program that I tagged on the side of, yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh qualified and and stockbroked, yeah.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you were doing stockbreaking, yeah?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: How long were you doing stockbreaking for?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, probably two or three years.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the tech bubble came along, and Killicks were a house that were really, really tech heavy.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what was uh, you know, at the end of November a massively expanding, we've got 200 people, let's have more, um run around to the end of March.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So then it was like actually we want 100 and we still want less of them.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, like all of these things, here, clear your desk, off you go, you've been made redundant.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So devastating at the time.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, silver linings.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Go on.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Did you were you doing qualifications and things back then as well?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you sort of did you mention there you went through like a graduate program?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: What qualifications did you do back then out of interest?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, I did all the securities institute.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I was stockbroking, was qualified to do all of those kind of things.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um made redundant.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Made me look for a job closer to home because I've got fed up with commuting.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, stuff like that happens in the stock market crashes.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly there's not the same number of jobs in a financial services stockbroking y basis.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I moved and went power planning for um, I worked as an investment power planner for somebody just outside Reading.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then went, yeah, worked up through those, you know, typical power planner to financial advisory at that point.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So how long ago was that though?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, the power planner job role, if you like, has only really it's only really been um more popular or mainstream, or actually a position, if you like, for the last sort of five years where there's been a huge demand for it.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, people were doing power planning before it became a bit trendier and a role within its own right.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, how how long ago was that then?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I I went out for lunch with one of the other guys from Killix and said, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he worked on the they put in a wealth management financial services on.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, what about power planning?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, What's that?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and it probably took me about another three months to actually understand that it was a really clever word for um help this advisor do stuff.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh yeah, I mean it took you know, power planner doesn't really tell you what the job is.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Administrator, you know what the job is.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Power planner?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't, it was posh administration rather than power planning.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: It included writing suitability reports, but the advisors formulated the advice, and I just ticked the boxes and filled out all the compliance stuff, really.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So would you would you say that a power planner position then is a good route into becoming a financial planner?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be a bit controversial and say possibly not.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: In in my opinion, and I know the conventional route says, you know, you do administrator, trainee, paraplanner, paraplanner, trainee advisor, la la.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I think a really good paraplanner, and I mean a proper paraplanner, not a posh administrator like I was.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean a technical paraplanner is often uh a different personality type to an advisor.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: An advisor is a um a creative wing-it on the hoof because you don't know what the client's gonna throw at you, kind of a person.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And generally speaking, they're fairly shocking at admin.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: A power a really good technical power planner will be everything has to be just so, and they'll be very precise and very accurate.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that whole wing-it thing doesn't really fit with that that really um clever technical, those are not the right words, but that really precise work that a really good power planner will do.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean when I say paraplanner there, I mean career power planner rather than than what I was.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I would have been what I would describe now as a client relationship manager.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: That and I think that's more of that uh possibly more extroverting, more um happy to talk to clients, happy to just chit-chat about the dog and the you know, the whatever else it is that's in their world and remember stuff about people.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that person actually makes a really good advisor because there's that client-facing thing.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a different route for a technical paraplanner.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes they they force themselves, not so much now, but you know, back when I was doing it, um, you get pushed into this is your career path.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was a shocking paraplanner because I have very little attention to detail, and and it didn't really interest me to do all those proper geeky calculations.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to talk to people, I wanted to do the bigger picture stuff.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: The guy that worked with me at where I went as my first paraplanner job is a fellow of the CII and he does all their quizzes every year, and he's absolutely brilliant.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he has gone that route.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: They tried to make him advise and he didn't like it.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was purely personality type.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he's yeah, he's a he's a brilliant career power planner.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and probably earns as much as an advisor would because he's as good as he is.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, some you know, power planners can command salaries of 60 to 65k top end now, um, especially in London.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the um I would think Simon's probably even on more than that, actually.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, fair play.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's definitely if you're a good power planner, and um and also as well, what's really in demand is like power planner managers, so someone who can manage teams of power planners as well and manage their workload, because um obviously that's a struggle within its own right as well, because you know, I don't again, what would have traditionally probably fallen upon the manager of the business to then run a team of power planners, whereas actually that's from a personality perspective, that might not work.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So having somebody that actually understands power planning and what the power planner actually does, you know, that's a great, great route for somebody in within power planning for you know progress their career.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think the more we see, the more power planners coming into the coming into the industry, which it will inevitably be because that's going to be a natural route here anyway.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're gonna see more power planning managers as well.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the salary is only gonna go up.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, it's definitely um when you mentioned their career power planning for the right person, that is the route to go down because um you don't have to go into power planning to be a financial advisor, you know, you can go into power planning to be a power planner, and a lot of people are incredibly happy doing so.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think and I think there's a a little bit of historic pressure that you know if you were a power, you became an advisor.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's going.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and I and I think that can only be a good thing because they are they are separate skills and separate skill sets.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I was a shocking paraplanner.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I like to think I'm not a bad advisor.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: My clients, my clients are staying, so hey, can't be doing too badly.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as well, we know we talked a bit about um financial coaches, and so you're like looking over in like off Australian market, or you're seeing more of these financial coaches, especially where someone's pushing themselves online and promoting themselves online, opening themselves up to way more clients than they usually would.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: That financial coach can be more client-facing sales, if you like, marketing, and then the clients come on in, feedback into a team of power planners that can do the research and manage those and manage the actual technical side of it, and you can just and it's all nicely simplified on you know, certain documents that are done from a tech perspective, so it's nice and easy, and then the the the coach can just go back and speak to the clients, no problem at all.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there again there'll be a demand for more power planners sitting behind businesses than there ever would be in the um, especially in the future when we start when it when it starts to be a hell of a lot more utilized like social media than it is at the moment.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and that'll be mine, that'll probably be my next hire.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're a team of four at the moment.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh two administrators, a client-facing power planner who uh who does want to be an advisor.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So our my next hire will probably be a pure paraplanner, a pure and not wanting to sit down in front of them.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think financial coaching.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: So this is something that I've done with a view to the future because there are clients out there that don't need full financial planning or are younger families, whatever, don't want to pay for full financial planning, you know, coal wards and all everything.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think they want to this is my perception, and this is what we're trying to do, is uh a more of a light touch of a what do I need and uh what do I need to do?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: What are my tax allowances?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Am I doing the right thing?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: But with a very bigger holistic view because they they've got a pension through work, um, you can go online and buy a Vanguard, whatever, relatively simply.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: The internet has opened up so much more, and we're so much more savvy about what you can do and what you and people quite like to do some of that themselves, but just want a bit of help with the more technical or the more or getting started, the education piece.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've got a um a new service again, aimed at aimed at younger clients to to educate and to learn a bit more about how how to save properly, how to use your credit card properly, how to how to do all those things that you should be taught in school that you're not.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um with a view that they'll be the clients of the future.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're if someone had said to me at age 30, or by the way, you know, put 50 pounds a month into your pension, I'd have gone, eh, I'm too young, whatever.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um, if they'd said it, if you don't do it now, you're gonna have to do five times as much when you do finally start.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I might have done.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: If I'd understood a bit more about why.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, I'm sorry.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right, that's fair, no problem.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um what I was gonna say to you as well is that look, because you're looking for your background, so we went from stockbroking into then power planning.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, as you mentioned, now more of a like a CRM type role back then, so very client-facing.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you had that feeling that actually you quite enjoyed working with clients on a on a on that basis as opposed to being sitting out of the back sort of with a couple of spreadsheets doing some sums, you know.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're more interested in the client side.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Did that then push you then into becoming a financial planner?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you were when you were powerplanning, were you sitting with the advisor?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Were you working with the advisor?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see how financial planning was?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: What then made you transition into the role of a financial planner?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: So having done the stockbroking work, which is very client-facing as well, to go back to being a power planner, you used to, you know, one of those classic four desks on an island thing, um, two power planners, two advisors, and you sat next to your advisor.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, much more of you know, I wanted his job.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was much more interesting than mine.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I had to write suitability reports and and do boring admin stuff.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love spreadsheet, and I can be really geeky about a spreadsheet and some of the tech stuff because it's interesting and it's a challenge.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's making the bigger picture come good.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you've got lifetime allowance, annual allowance calculations are all a bit geeky, but they're they come back, you know, you do them because it's like, oh here, actually, it's all alright.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've fixed your tax problem, I've I've fixed your problem.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I yeah.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I did I did power planning for four years probably.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then saw an advert, very local to home, someone looking for an advisor.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, I'm not really an advisor.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've got the qualifications to do it, what FPC one, two, and three or whatever it was that counted at that point.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've done client facing with stockbrokers.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just phone and and see if they'll interview me.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I and he kind of went, Well, what are you doing?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I went, Oh, uh working closely with the investment specialist, and I'm and I blagged my way into a job I had no idea how to do.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: But he didn't know either.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So So that was who was that working for then?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you went from went from Power planning into financial planning.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that was an that was an employed role, was it?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't go down the self-employed role, it was an employed financial advisor.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And was that sort of and that was your first job within financial planning?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you had the qualifications, you held FPCs at the which they were at the time, and you moved into that financial planner.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that was an employed financial planner role.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: They'd had an advisor retire, and they'd taken over a couple of client banks, and there was a wedge of orphan clients.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, it was cold calling.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Teppid cold calling.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was uh you used to speak to blah, blah, blah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even remember the man's name, Anthony something, um, three years ago.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been a while since we've had a review.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I thought I should phone and book something.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it wasn't quite solid cold calling, but it wasn't pretty.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was warm ish, it was lukewarm.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: You had a name of somebody.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: I knew who I was calling from.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and when I said, you know, you've got a standard life pension or something, so you used to talk to, and that was about it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then so in that in the because obviously back then this is pre-RDR as well, wasn't it?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Proper sales.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: So very salesy, very commission based, yeah.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And did it, you know, were you was it like that?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Was it was exactly horrible.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we used to have a whiteboard in the office that you wrote your commish.
• 23:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And every month it was wiped off clean, and you had to put some numbers up there.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the pressure to put numbers up there for just anything.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I come into an old client bank, so I was very lucky in that what I was actually doing was in the main good advice as well.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it there were a there were a couple of protection policies, I think I rebroached that I didn't really know what I was doing, so they probably didn't need it.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: But generally speaking, it was old-star pensions, expensive charges into a stakeholder and and was generally good advice and in the in the right direction.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So although it was a sales job, it wasn't um, I didn't feel like I was doing the wrong thing.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's always been quite important to me that you know I couple of the a couple of other advisors that I met around that time were very, you know, we used to have a bell in the office and you rang, you rang the bell if you wrote a deal for one of the platforms.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Horrible.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I think I've got to ring it once.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, I don't, I think I used to just put my numbers on the board and walk away and not that just felt really, yeah.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is that because you're just not that type of person?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: You don't particularly like that sales environment, or was it because you felt that what you what they, you know, did you feel like the culture of sales within financial planning was wrong?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or was it just down to your personality?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're not, you know, one to show off?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: A bit of both.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm I'm a long-term relationship builder, farmer person.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's not to say I'm not looking for new clients to build that relationship with, um, but uh it's quite important to me to do the right thing.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I worked, I worked with five or six other guys, and there was one guy there who was, I'm going to do this for three years, and then I'm going to emigrate, so I need to make as much money as I possibly can in these three years.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember taking on one of his clients after he left and working out that the client had paid more in commission than he'd earned in the three years.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just not right.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So even yeah, so that was what was going on, wasn't it?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of people making a lot of money just just vlogging products that were just whoever was paying the most commission, basically.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was horrible.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean Aviva were paying a vivo were paying eight and a quarter percent or something on a on a transfer, on a pension transfer.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, here, here's a stakeholder, it's really, really good for you.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's cheap and low charges and blah blah blah.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Here, have one of these.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they just pay you.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: No ongoing built-in to it, just eight up front.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you were doing no ongoing fees, no ongoing advice, anything like that.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was purely commission-based and that was.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, how long are you doing that for?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we did have a we did have an we didn't we didn't charge an ongoing fee, but there was an ongoing process.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: So there was an annual review and and stuff like that about it.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't quite rape and pillage, but it was close.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how long did I do that for?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: I worked for the firm, probably for eight years.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, RDR came along the middle of it.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: I probably spent the two, so two years were I'm a new advisor, this is what I do.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really like this feeling very much.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Two years were RDR's coming, oh thank God for that, I don't have to do it like that.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and now they'll actually pay me.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um see the whole point of taking up an up an upfront fee and no ongoing was because I didn't get paid on the ongoing.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: So why would I write it?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um management team then changed that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we got paid for an ongoing.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it I then spent two years kind of setting up for RDR.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So RDR for me was relatively simple because it already converted to a bet a better model.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And had kept enough clients or you know, had built up enough of a client bank and doing the right thing that that I I still have some of them.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some of them came with me and I and I still have them.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So these are relationships you built there for that within that eight years, and you still you've still got them now because you, you know, you didn't just focus purely on the commission-based side of it, you built those long those relationships, which is the the focus that you had, and they've and they've come with you um all the way through.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Who I started working with at 56.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of trust and relationship.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the trust and relationship that's been built there.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um here's a question for you, then.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Working, you know, you've worked within the financial planning profession for for some time and you've been the post-RDR, you know, pre-pre-RDR, you've seen the sales commission side.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: From a personality perspective, do you think somebody who's a really good salesperson, if they stepped across into financial planning, do you think they would make a good financial planner?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, I don't see why not.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because the the difference is what you're selling.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um historically you were selling a product on behalf of an insurance company, so you sold that.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think the difference now is that I sell advice and actually, you know, so there's still the sales process about it.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: That that's to say that's not to say that's not not there still.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the product that you sell is different.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's now here is the plan, here is the the way to make what you're doing right more efficient, tax efficient, la la.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you and I think, you know, fundamentally, if you just charge a fee for that bit of work, then why couldn't a salesperson do that as well?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: It you know, it's not you don't have to be paid for putting a product in place.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can be paid for just doing the work that you do.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's still a sell wherever you are.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because you tend to find somebody who's a bit of a sales monster tends to have a certain type of personality, don't they?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they tend to be quite extrovert.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're, you know, they'll sell their granny to get something, you know, that type of thing.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's the kind of view people have of people that are really good at sales.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um I just always think, you know, it's always had a very negative uh tone, really, isn't it?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sales within financial planning, probably due to pre pre-RDR and trying to get rid of that commission-based um sales monsters that were around.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: There are still those, I mean, there are sales monsters.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: There are still those um so again, you know, I I work through a network and I and a peer group, and there are still advisors that I know that are purely about sale.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's wrapped up in tax planning and being efficient and everything else, but ultimately what what drives them and what floats their boat is the next sale, the next deal.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I so long as it's done for the right reasons and for the benefit of the client, there's nothing wrong with a sale because I think there's a lot of people out there that wouldn't do uh wouldn't do, you know, that that get stuck holding cash and not doing something.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there's an element of um over the longer term, it is better for you to invest in stocks and shares because over 20-30 years they are proven to to outperform.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: But there's there's a sales process there.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's a bit that says, you know, you don't know anything about it, you don't understand it.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have to educate you and I have to tell you why it's better for you.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And there's an element of persuasion and and why that is better for you or not.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's not to say you shouldn't keep a good old chunk of money in cash for all those other things, but it it has to be part of a bigger picture rather than just a oh, yeah, what can I sell you?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you haven't got any life insurance.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'll sell you some of that.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and you know, you live on your own and you've got a mortgage and you've got no one to leave it to, but do you know what you better have loads of life insurance?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, who cares if your mortgage is paid off if you're dead and you've got no one to leave it to?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that it's got to be the right sale.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: More of a consultative sale, isn't it?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like you're saying you're selling a service and you're not just selling a product, so you're selling a service.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as you said, you know, if it stops being a sale, you know, if you do the whole planning process that says, you know, what are your goals?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you want to live in retirement?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Who's important to you?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you want to be?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you build that whole picture through, then actually the um, okay, so this is what you've got, and here are the nuts and bolts of the products that you've got underneath.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: And this one's not actually very good, so I think we should move it to something else, which was the historic sale.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've done the right bit of work at the beginning, and and the uh that stops being a sale.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a this is then uh yes, like taking a car to the garage, you know, the bloke turns around and says, Well, the brakes are about to fall off, you need new ones.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yes, please.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: It it's not as you know, that he sold you brakes, but that's not a a pushy sale, it's a it's one for the right reasons.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you were working um as an employee, as an employed financial planner then, um, and obviously you've you ended up leaving that company.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what was the reason for that?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: What you know, when you were when you were, you know, working on a self-employed basis, were you sort of um in an R in and thinking about doing it yourself at any point?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Were you sort of thinking, well, I could do this myself?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to lots of financial advisors and um, you know, they're employed, but in the back of their minds, some of them are thinking, well, I can do this, this is really easy.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I could run a business and just do it all myself and earn way more money.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Did that sort of cross your mind when you were employed as well or not?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course it does.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it does for everybody at some point.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whether you whether you're then the right person to take that risk or not.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I mean, I I bought into the company that I worked for.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was a shareholder.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I thought we had a succession plan in place that were three or four of us were going to buy out the retiring advisors.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, didn't happen.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: They sold to a consolidator.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I ended up being tied in for a three-year period of to a company that I just couldn't wait to get out of.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so for that three year, I probably spent 18 months of that setting up my own business in the background and working out how the hell I was going to do it and being terrified.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you were a shareholder within the company that then agreed the guys agreed to actually sell it on in instead of passing it down to you guys or giving the opportunity for you guys to buy it.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you were tied in then to what during the period of sale, you had to stay with that business because you would do because you would you would pay out as well?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: How did it yeah, there was a three-year earnout period.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: They paid 50% up front and then 25, 25.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we had to keep profitability up.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so we all tied into clauses that that ended up on a three-year period.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of it, you were gonna get paid out as well.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, cool.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: All right, cool.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: So at that point there, then you thought to yourself, right, but this isn't for me.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, these guys are selling on to somebody else and not selling to me.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'll stay here, I'll get my payout.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, in the background, you're also running, you know, you're also planning and setting up your own your own business.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: So what were you thinking at that point then?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Were you thinking you were gonna go down the directly authorized route?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Were you thinking you were gonna be uh an appointed representative, or you were gonna go just be self-employed as a registered individual under somebody else?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: What decision did you make when you decided that you were gonna go self-employed?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: We were directly authorized, and I just thought that was that was the way of the world.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd worked for a network before, but we've kind of come out of that.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Directly authorized was was what I wanted to do.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, spoke to uh a client of my husband's um who is uh who's also a financial advisor and was just kind of look, you know, impartial opinion.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't talk to the guys that I work with because that's too close to him.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really know anybody else in the industry because we were very much um, oh, you don't want to bother going networking or talking to other advisors, they're the competition, um, which now I find really strange, but um that was how it was at the time.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I spoke to this guy and he kind of went, Well, I work through open work, come and join us.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, don't want to learn, not really.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then he was retiring three years later, and he said, Well, what I'm looking for is a locum to share with.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, set up your own business, but we could do it under a joint umbrella, and you know, that this would be the split, you know, this is how it could work.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And on my own, I thought actually, there's a little bit of safety about that, going from an employed role with five other advisors and a support team.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there were 16, 17 of us in the business.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly it was gonna be just me.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just me with an awareness that I'm not very good at power planning and I don't like admin.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not so good.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was gonna have to learn a whole bunch of new computer systems and whatever else is, um, and not know whether I'd actually get any clients, not not know, you know, know that probably for 18 months I wasn't gonna make any money at all.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I I asked another friend.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I uh I've got a horse, and and one of the other girls at the yard worked also worked for open work, and I went, Oh, could you just kind of have a look and tell me if his business is any good or not?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um, she came back and she said, Well, funnily enough, it is quite good, and you could do that, but I'm looking for a self-employed advisor.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you reckon?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I I did a half jump ship and I went and worked, I did a year as a self-employed advisor through her office.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was all the bad bits of being employed and self-employed, you know.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had to conform to office hours and office everything and had no control about what I did at work and then didn't get any of the benefits of being employed.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it yeah, so a year later I was like, this doesn't really work.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have to just I have to just go and do it.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I had by that time probably acquired 20 or 30 clients.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I had I had office support, I had someone else doing business management stuff, you know.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: I went self-employed to be a to be a financial advisor.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I want to do.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: I want to sit in front of clients, want to talk to clients.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to run a business.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't want to do HR, I don't want to do the, you know, oh, phone the electrician, organise a pat test.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, no thanks.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: But but you don't realize that all of that stuff comes along suddenly.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you you set up your own business and suddenly you are the you are the IT department.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just ring them because suddenly it's you.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't afford to pay for all of these things.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: So there's you become the IT department, you become the painter decorator before you move into wherever you're going into, you become the HR person, you become the um what do I need to read from the regulator?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Have I done this?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Haven't I done that?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Where do I need to log in to find that?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh God, I haven't done that.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what do you mean, employer's liability?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: What's that?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of these things you suddenly have to learn.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, while trying to make money, you know, find new clients, uh, get intelligent enough about paying the tax man or setting money aside to pay the tax man, um, and actually just try not to worry about everything spinning around your head day in, day out, and make it sound awful.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Having said that, I I wouldn't be anywhere else now.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can I can relate to that.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've run a recruitment company I've done for the last 12 years and employee people, I've got my own office and everything.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, you know, going into directorship there, and I took on 50% of the business, and I went from being just a standalone recruitment consultant to actually being a 50% shareholder in the business and with lots of ideas as well.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, that's gonna be a piece of piss.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just jump on this and I'll just, you know, and I it would be absolutely no problem at all.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: But everything you do, you've got to create, you've got to do something, haven't you?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: So every step you take, this there's more things you have to do, and it does become incredibly exhausting because you're wearing multiple, you know, you are wearing, wearing multiple hats.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I can definitely relate to that.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you did that move where I see quite often, and I often I kind of put it as an option to somebody.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, right, you're employed at the moment, and you've got no experience of being self-employed.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes someone will say, Well, I'm gonna go directly authorized.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, you've got absolutely no experience of being self-employed.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: You want to go down the directly authorized route, that's gonna be really difficult.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to get PI insurance, you've got to go, you know, you've got to register with the FCA, it takes a long time to do that as well.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you're really thinking about it properly.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what have you got to bring to the table?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: How many clients do you think are gonna follow you, especially when they're coming from like an employee background?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because they just think, oh, yeah, you know, and you do a little bit of a business plan with them, and it turns out they don't have a great deal.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they think, oh, actually, do you know what I might I might go down the route of becoming an RI for somebody, stepping across into say, you know, becoming like I don't know, earning 50% of everything they write, you know, or seven, you know, sliding scale, whatever it might well be.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: But there is that grim reality, it's like you're being employed, it's like you are an employee, but with the self-employed badge, and you nailed it really.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: You get all the benefit, you don't really get a great deal of benefits, you know.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: You you still can and you're still in that and you don't really shape that employed mindset either.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you're still kind of one foot in employed, one foot in self-employed.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know whether and the person who's owning the business, it's their business.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: You've got your own business underneath it, yet you still kind of worry about what that person's saying, you feel a bit controlled, I think.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Very and the kind of clients and things that you you know, you can't go out and do your own marketing and you're right, because it all sits under their their brand and their so you can't, you know, and the clients that they want to attract as an established business.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I went there, I give anyone, any anyone that wants to come through the door, yes, please come in.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they already established themselves as a much, you know, we deal with high net worth individuals, and yeah, that's where I wanted to be eventually.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: But but when you're first writing business and you need to pay the bills, anybody at all who wants to come through the door, yep, yep, I'll do that, I'll help you, yeah, that's fine.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: I've got time because I haven't got any clients, so you know, a client paying a little rather than no client at all is better, and you and you build it up from there, and you as time goes on, you move and you start to go, okay, now these are the people I want to work with, this this group, and and you just change your message so it goes out to that group.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, what advice would you give to somebody who is currently employed as a financial planner and thinking about going self-employed?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: What advice would you give them based on your personal experience?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I was quite impulsive and I just jumped.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, impulsive.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: I knew it was coming, and I thought, well, I'll just go and set up for myself.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: That'll be fine.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't really occur to me to do business planning or or to yeah, my accountant didn't help me at all.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, suddenly at the end of the year I got a tax bill and on account for next year.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, what's that about?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what advice would I give them?
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: I would probably join a business coaching or get business coaching help from somewhere because, or go networking because other people running their own businesses in the group will tell you so-and-so's a good accountant.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: But by the way, have you put 20% aside for your tax bills, set up a separate account, do that, or oh, I do social media, but um, I found this way, you know, I use Canva, I use Active Campaign, the don't bother with that one, it doesn't work, it's glitchy with an iPhone.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just stuff that other people, whatever businesses they run, have done, you know, don't reinvent the wheel.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, use all of that stuff and and outsource as soon as you possibly can.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Get a bookkeeper, get yeah, outsource the the horrible stuff.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Get a bookkeeper, get a use a virtual assistant to start with if you don't, you know, if you're a typical advisor and don't like having him and and don't want to do that stuff, yeah, get someone else to do it as soon as you possibly can.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so get absolutely I agree with that, you know, and there are plenty of ways to to outsource parts of your your job um quite cheap as well.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't have to use UK-based uh companies either.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I do a lot of a lot of my marketing, for example, is done um in the Philippines or in India, you know, there's a lot of things that I that I use on an outsource basis that are very cheap and very efficient.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Some of it's crap, um, but um some of it's very cheap and very efficient.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: But you can screw somewhere like Fiverr and and uh there are ones, and you just yeah, find a good one further.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you've gone that you so okay, so you've gone from employed, you've you've looked at that self employed route, um, you're thinking about setting up on your own.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're a bit unsure.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or so you've joined forces with a with a company that sat underneath open work, yeah.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you were you were em you were self-employed, stroke employed with them.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't work out because culturally it wasn't really a great fit.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's another thing as well.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're going into somebody else's business self-employed, they've got a vision and a pathway of where they want to take it, and it didn't really m fit in culturally with where you all wanted to go.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly that.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly that.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: So then to having moved my clients in under the the open work umbrella and gone, this is what I'm doing, come with me, I'm moving to standard.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I then didn't think I, you know, you you can't move them again.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's a whole thing.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, okay, we've agreed to separate the business, was how we positioned it.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm going to go and do this under this brand over here.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: But everything you have and everything you do, and all your client agreements and fee agreements and everything will stay exactly the same.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: They will just be transported across to where I was.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I, you know, that bit was far more seamless than the jumping ship in the first place.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it was just a case of just settling in and doing something, you know, clients don't like change any more than everybody else does.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And here I work for this company, we've been taken over, here's one lot of change.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Three years later I've moved, and here's another lot of change.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, by the way, a year later I'm moving again.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, clients are then sat there kind of going, uh hang on a minute, you know, where's this?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Will my money be okay in all these changes?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the bit you you do the reassuring and the and the looking after.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so yeah, so I'm still uh uh an AR of open work.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um being in this in this format, so running my own business for five years.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've just had a fifth birthday.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Happy birthday.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it's good.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you said okay, cool.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you're underneath open work as a as an RI of an AR of open work.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: That didn't that that wasn't for you.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Then made the decision, right?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna set up my own business.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go on my own and set up my own AR of open work, is that right?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, correct.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you're an AR now of open work, and your business is called Brain Dog Financial Planning Limited, yeah?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Where's what's what's the brain dog?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: What's the brain dog all about then?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Financial services companies are just called dull things.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I've worked for I've worked for integrity, I've worked for essential, I've worked for equilibrium, uh, all wealth management.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've worked for um Walker James and Finch Financial.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just they're all called the same thing, and none of them really tell you what they do.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I knew I wanted to do more lifestyle planning, more a bit more of the coaching thing, and we were laughing at home, and somebody, you know, somebody said to me, more, what do you want to go set up on your own for?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, Oh, I've got a little brown dog I've got to look after.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it and it just kind of stuck at home, and it was like, I can't actually call it anything different now.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it does it, I think it it's enough different.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: So before I before my temping job, before the stockbroking temping job, but I sound like I've had a lot of jobs.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I worked for a brand agency for a year.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was at the time that Orange were launching a network, and everybody went, Orange, what kind of name's that for a telecom unit company?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Why aren't they called Vodafone, British Telecom, uh, Bougie's Telecom, Telecom, whatever they were, Airtel.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why aren't they called themselves Orange?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's stupid.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, yeah, but you're all talking about it, and they all, you know, you've all got an opinion one way or the other.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: So something unusual was always going to be on the cards.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and it I think it leads people to understand that we don't, that we do do things slightly differently.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um becoming more mainstream.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot more lifestyle planning going on, cash flow modeling, have I got enough?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Will I be all right?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those kind of questions rather than here's a pension, your investments are done okay this year.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, and it and it it makes for a it makes for really easy branding, you know.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: We've got chocolate labrador and everything.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Nice and easy.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned there about lifestyle financial planning then.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, why why do you why have you chosen the route to go down, you know, why have you chosen to go down the route of of lifestyle financial planning then?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that so important?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um because I um uh there's an awful lot of big institutions creating a lot of products that they want pushed out to the market.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that historically was what financial advisor did.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: We were the person that pushed all those products out to the market.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I I often think that that you know big banks, big insurance companies are not gonna do, they're gonna do something that's profitable and right for them.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if they can then package it up nicely so it's profit, so it's right for the person at the other end-ish, then then that's what they do.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are an awful lot of people out there that have a perfectly good workplace pension, have a perfectly good, you know, the stuff they've accumulated in the past, there's nothing wrong with it.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, what they want to know, you know, people say, Oh, I I need to come and speak to you because I've got six or seven pensions from previous companies and I need to consolidate them.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what they want to do.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: What they want to know is, have I got enough money?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Will I be all right when I retire?
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it, you know, so rather than just pick all those up and put them into a neat place together and go, there you go, Mr.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Client, off you go.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: For me to be able to turn around and say, Okay, well, what have you got?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Does it work?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you actually, do you know what you could retire tomorrow if you want?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to wait until 65 or and it's I'm inherently very nosy, like I think most financial advisors are.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, tell me all your deep dark secrets and what's in the cupboard under the stairs.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it actually it's really I I love being able to say to somebody, I mean, I had a uh client come in about 18 months ago who head of department, he's a maths teacher, um, had got bogged down with the admin and being head of department, and actually all he wanted to do was do the maths.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted to just teach kids maths, but he'd ended up in this kind of career job and progression that he'd said, yes, yes, yes, I must do this, to the point that he didn't like his job anymore.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he came in um recommendation from another client to could he retire um at 65.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: He'd got divorced and therefore he'd got a new mortgage on his on his home and things, and he was like, I don't think I'm ever going to be able to stop working and I don't want to do this.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he hadn't read the paperwork on his teacher's pension properly, and he could have taken it two years before.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, because of what he'd done and how things had changed, the lump somebody took out of his teacher's pension cleared off his mortgage.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: So he could have retired two years earlier.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't tell him that, but um, it was like, no, you can you can stop right now if you want and just go tutoring if you want to, it doesn't, it doesn't matter.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: So this is 18 months ago.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: I thought we were gonna cry in the office.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we kind of wheeled him out the door and went go and think about it, and we'll talk about that when you're looking less stunned.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um, him and his his now new wife are they spend six months of the year abroad in Europe and they spend six months in England, and they're they have the most fantastic lifestyle and and all for just some slightly different questions at the beginning and looking at something slightly differently.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, it's that's so rewarding to be able to say to someone, you know, suck off the job you hate.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: And do you tend to find that when people come in to see you and they sit down with you, are they expecting those types of questions from a financial advisor?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have a first meeting pack that we send out, you know.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: Once we've booked a meeting, we send an email with a um, it's a pack and it just says, consider these interesting questions.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it starts with, you know, uh, what was money like growing up?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: Who do you want to spend your time with?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're relatively straightforward and easy to answer, and they're not too they get into what kind of legacy do you want to leave and where do you want to live?
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you often get um so they then come into the first meeting or Zoom or whatever it is, and they've answered two or three of them with travel, my wife, some friend, you know, they're really bald and they're kind of like, Why do you want to know that?
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then you start to build a cash flow, and it's like, so now you have to give me those answers, so this is actually accurate, and then we give them the cursor to control the cash flow model, and um, and that magic just happens then.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly it's like, oh, what if we did this or we could do that?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but it you kind of preemptive start those weird, weird and wonderful questions at the beginning, and then they sort of expect they're coming in for something slightly different.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, okay, cool.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's like life-changing, it's life-changing advice, isn't it?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: As opposed to just like, here's a product, stick it in there, and let's hope for the best.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're actually visualizing, you're showing them the path, aren't you, to where in what situation they possibly can retire, how their lives can change, how much money they do need to put away to make that difference, but to also probably have a good lifestyle leading up to that as well.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I've got one client who um was working 60, 50, 60 hours a week doing something.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, you have more than enough money, you're never gonna be able to spend this.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: And but because of where he'd come from, he was really worried about, you know, he was a real security worrier.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to go back to that hideous place that I used to live in.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't want to go back there.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he still, you know, he still phones me up and says, Oh, I want to book a trip to India for three weeks and it's gonna cost 15,000 pounds.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can I afford it?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, come on.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can do it twice.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, you could do it four times this year, and we still don't have a chance in hell of running out of money and using up what you've got.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Could you just spend it a bit more, please?
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you just you get a lot of these people that are quite fearful around their money and making financial decisions, and so they sort of fing you up and almost looking for that reassurance by the sounds of it.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Completely, completely.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I like that.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: I like I like the sound of it.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: People are either terrified they haven't got enough and are a little bit embarrassed about calling with what they've got or not done, and actually they're probably no different to most others.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: But then there are a lot of people that just validation, you know, they're they're intelligent people that have earned good money and saved good money, and they're it's almost just a little bit of validation that they're doing the right thing and they've not missed something.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you've set up um, you know, you set up brand dog financial planning.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's been going for nearly five years, as you say, well, it's fifth fifth birthday quite recently.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: Just done.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: Just done.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just done, yeah.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um, within that five years, then let's talk about clients and how you've built your client base up because um it's no easy feat, is it, going out and winning loads of clients and bringing loads of assets under management and getting those ongoing fees?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time and energy.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what's your strategy when it comes to uh building new client relationships and bringing new clients on?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: How do you go about doing it?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so for the first, well, one of our best and and along with a lot of advisors, one of our best sources of referral is existing clients.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: But when you first start out and you've only got 10 of them, you know, that that's not you know, when you've been going a bit longer and there's 70, 80 of them, that referrals are easier.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: But so to start with, I did quite I did a lot of networking, I did a lot of um yeah, just commenting on other people's stuff on social media and just you know, yeah, just putting yourself out there.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it it can be quite daunting and it can be quite um, it's really difficult to blow your own trumpet.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it it you get used to it and you get better at it and you get more thick skinned about it.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, just um we adverts in local parish magazines and the posh villages around here.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um networking.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um if there was ever a uh who needs help with this on a Facebook post or something, I would put on the bare bones of advice.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm having trouble sorting my mortgage out.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: I would I would put some notes about the you know how a mortgage works and what the options that you can and can't do.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: So so free advice for one, you know, for almost uh uh a thing, you know, the more you give stuff like that, the more one, the more your name goes out there.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: And two, if you give genuine honest advice with no um phone me afterwards and I'll sort that out for you without you know, without the sales pitch on the end, that it builds a massive amount of trust.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the first two years we got three or four clients.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, where did you see me?
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, someone else put a face on uh post on Facebook and I saw your name and and I saw what you said to her and it and it felt, you know, it didn't feel salesy.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I felt genuine.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, lovely.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's um classic example of how social media can help you win new clients and that personal brand that we were talking about at the beginning of the call.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um have you found that you're sort of embracing social media that way as a business?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you, you know, you mentioned you comment.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great and this is something that a lot of people don't do, is comment on other people's posts, especially on say LinkedIn, for example.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: And Facebook's a great one, especially if it's not very salesy.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but when you do comment and someone sees your business name and they see it pop up more and more, they start thinking, well, that person knows what they're talking about.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh perhaps I'll refer some clients across.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's an accountant, they think I'll refer some clients, or I'll set up a meeting with Jessica because she sounds like she knows what she's doing when it comes to you know financial planning.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a really useful way.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: I find I've uh it helps me massively as well in what I do is just commenting on other people's posts.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um puts your name out there and and it's genuinely helpful.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're you're perceived as somebody that knows what they're talking about, um, assuming that your comments are the right thing, but you know that you're you know what you're talking about, and and that you genuinely care about what you do.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it yeah, I I also, you know, I mean you you go down social media, and if someone asks a question like that, I can't help myself.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh tuk, tap, tuk, tuk, tuck.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you could try this or try that.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one that was one thing we did.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing we did that I I didn't even know existed, never mind that it would have such a big impact.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: We redid the website two years ago and we got someone to do SEO specialization in the background.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: So most I've since discovered most website builders just don't do that automatically.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's an add-on, and it and I've noticed I I don't know whether it's because of where we're at with this year that maybe more people just want financial advice.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: But our our inquiries and our lead gen has gone, yeah, it's gone through the roof since we did the SEO.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I think there's a lot to be said for being on the front page somewhere.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: I totally agree with you on that.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, SEO is definitely valuable.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's another thing.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you people think, well, I built a website, it cost me five, ten grand.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Some people are getting charged silly money for websites, and um, it's a glorified business card.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: And without the you know, without the uh the meta tag descriptions being put in there correctly, without content put in being put on the site that's of a relevant, you know, of Google standards as well, so it'll be picked up, you're just not gonna get you're just not gonna get fame.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to SEO, then that's interesting because um yeah, a lot of financial advice companies don't do it, and actually a small amount of SEO will get you ramped up the um ramped up Google rankings, no problem at all.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: And as you rightfully said, you want to be on that page one.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone searches you know financial planning in Reading or whatever, where wherever you live, they want you you want to be known to be coming up on up on top.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: So so with the SEO side then, so you you you yourself rate s SEO as a means to helping you generate inbound leads.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, how much did you spend on it on SEO?
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: Very little.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when the website was built originally, um the web uh the the guys that built the website in the first place didn't do it, but they kind of went, Oh, we can add a plug-in if we have to.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what's that?
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: And again, a networking thing.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: I there was a lady there talking about branding an SEO, and I was like, she maybe I don't really know what that is.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so I had a chat with her.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, yeah, it feels a little bit like black magic, but we'll have a go.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think she probably charged, I think it was about 200 pounds a page.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she went, so I she said, you know, what kind of subjects do you, what do people search for?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: What other what would someone put into Google or say into to Syria or whatever to search for you?
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: Give me those sentences.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: And she went and did uh a whole bunch of research as to how people looked for things and where what subjects were worth answering.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you know, if you if you I don't know, I need help with my pension.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: There are 50,000 people answering that question.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to stand out amongst any of them.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so choose the subjects like that.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's very little about the the residential nil red band, and yet it was something people were asking about.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: There was something like only 25 answers to it.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: So she's like, write about stuff like that.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: That is so she did all that research in the background.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, here, these are the first top, these are the first eight topics for your blog posts.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, go and write a blog post.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god, that was yeah.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Did you not outsource that then?
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: Did you not get someone else to write the blog posts for you?
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't have the spare cash to do it.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so no, I I took myself off one day and I went to a coffee shop with my laptop and my phone, and I wrote six blog posts and I emailed them all to her and went, edit those, I never want to see them again.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it it's got easier.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we do now outsource it.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, but I do still write.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think it's quite important to every now and then write your own topic because my my tone is slightly different to everybody else's.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: And although Rachel, that does our social media, is really good, she doesn't write, she doesn't write the way I speak.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: So sure.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: Your tone.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, cool.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: All right, then you've got Rachel there then.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you, you know, you've you've gone from working for somebody else, uh self-employed, you've gone into setting up your own business, uh brand dog financial, you've got Rachel there, so you've obviously now built a team there as well.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: So how quickly was it until you you know started hiring people into brand dog financial planning?
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: Quicker than I wanted.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so Rachel used to work for the same business that I did um as an RI.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when I left, uh the boss there went, Well, I haven't got a job for her anymore because there's no uh if you leave, that's half the workload gone because she does half, she does uh all of your stuff and some of mine.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was when did I left?
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: I actually left there in September.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we had a conversation about sharing, and she said, Oh, I'll I'll um subcontract her to you.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm not no, you know, she can have two part-time jobs, but I'm not being beholden to you when you get busier and want more time, and I suddenly get left in the lurch.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so she worked for me three days a week from so I set the business up in July.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: From September, she did three days a week.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I then got a phone call December.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this doesn't work, there's no continuity.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to give Rachel notice tomorrow, December the 22nd.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's nice.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and because of the way the contracts have changed, she was only on, I think she was on two weeks' notice.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh, brutal just before Christmas.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I phoned her up and went, this is coming.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: And she went, but you can't afford me full time, can you?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, no.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm not quite sure what what I'm gonna do.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: She went, Well, we'll just think about it over Christmas and sort something out.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's only 26 at this stage, 25.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: So to have that grown-up an attitude about it was quite I was quite impressed by.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so she then phoned me back four days later and said, Well, um, if you can afford to pay me four days a week, I'll go waitressing two days a week and we can make this work.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then January is always a brilliant time for financial advice.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody gets their new year's resolutions out and says, I can do.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the first week back in, we had four new client inquiries.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, oh, do you know what you can actually work full-time here?
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: That that would be better for both of us.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I will just go and find new clients to pay the bills.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I paid her and I didn't pay me for about six months, and and then probably for about the next year, I paid her more than I paid me, like you do.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it yeah, and then but it just we work really well together as a team.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: We've we're quite she's absolutely the perfect technical para planner personality.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know what we're talking earlier.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: She is definitely, you know, I sit here and come up with a shiny idea and and she breaks it down into process and turns it into something.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then last, so so there were just two of us for three years.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then last year we took on uh part-timer, and we've just taken on last month another part-timer.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you've taken on two part-timers, and what do they and so what do these part-timers actually do then?
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: Admin.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Both of them are admin-based.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, all the all the compliance and stuff that goes with processing business and uh And just running an office.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we've outsourced, we've got an outsourced bookkeeper who does all of that stuff.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, she literally sends me some numbers at the end of every week and says, this is what's come into the bank account, this is what's going out, this is what's due.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I do none of that anymore.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: So all that statement reconciliation and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do any of that.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um so probably, I suppose Emily probably counts as a as a member of staff, albeit that it's outsourced.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: So outsourcing for you in respect of freeing up your time has been really valuable.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: And also hiring some guys on an in-house basis, albeit part-time, one full-time, has also been beneficial to you.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what about hiring new financial planners then?
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: Are you um looking to grow as a company?
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to hire more financial planners or do you see yourself as more of a one person?
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, I want to hire.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, I want to hire.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: I always thought I didn't want to empire build, and I've realized I was lying to myself quite a lot.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't I don't want to empire build massively, I want to empire build quality.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I so one of the um the full-time hire that we've got is a younger um employee with a view to training in-house.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, we've all just got a bit smarter about what happens and how things happen.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the next hire would probably be a client-based role, um, client relationship, almost paraplanner, but not the technically bit, with a view to being an advisor.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and put someone through their exams.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so Rachel's done all her exams since she's been here.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think she did one at the previous place and became diploma qualified last week.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: So nice.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: And is that through the CII or is that L I B F what route did she do it in?
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was CII, um, open work run and academy that's CII based.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the Open Work Academy is quite good, isn't it?
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um I also went the CII route.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm chartered.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_01: But uh the trouble is you get once you take one exam, you kind of get tied in.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's a bit of a monopoly.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't think one route's any better than than another.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_01: I looked at the IFP exams and would far rather have done those if I knew they existed.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, you you start accumulating points down one route, and if you change and go and do something else, you lose all of that that pre-work that you've done.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you get you get stuck following a route.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I don't think that's so great.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because uh not everybody wants to do the chartered exams, do they?
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and some people really struggle struggle with exams.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you do you sort of feel that uh having a chartered status does it does it improve your your job?
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get better clients?
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is it does it have any benefit at all to the turnover of your business, for example?
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: The CII would like me to say yes, of course it does.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't think so.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think it it being able to offer a higher level, as in chartered is a word that the public understands, you know, chartered accountant, account, whatever.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a word that they've you know, it's medieval, whatever it was, market charters and things.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's a word that they understand, and it's you know, I use it as a differentiator that says I am one of, you know, not all of them are.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's it really.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: That I did it um because I was working with much higher net worth clients, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't gonna get it wrong.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it was absolutely nailing some of that more technical aspect of what we do, and just making sure that that you know, I might not remember that exact bit of how that works, but I know it in principle and and broad strokes, and I can and you can go and research it, but without doing some of the chartered exams, I might not have known some of that even existed or or not well enough.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a good starting point to building your, you know, again, it's a great starting point to building your knowledge.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it helps you build your knowledge.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um by building your knowledge, you do some exams, you pass your exams, you get a qualification.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um chartered is a nice status to have.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody is chartered.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um the rules change, and then all the stuff that I learned in those chartered exams is now, you know, I did those two, three years ago, they're now not.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, stuff's changed.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Stuff changes.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't both on now.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I probably could if I tried, but you know, if I went and sat in front of one of the papers I'd sat back then, uh yeah, I wouldn't.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, it it's a lovely thing to have, and I'm very proud of it.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um I wouldn't make everybody else do it particularly.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a differentiator, that's all.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a little badge you can put on the end that says, I did this.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So for if let's say, for example, you know, you're you're you're in a situation where you're thinking about growing your business, you're looking to hire some more financial planners.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Would you take on a candidate that had no qualifications but had the personality or the um you know the the design, the um characteristic personality behaviors to be a really good financial planner?
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Would you take somebody on like that without the qualifications?
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yes.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: The qualifications are uh are the easy part to get.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: That that sounds wrong because they're not easy, but they are the bit that you can study, learn, and do the personality, the aptitude, the attitude, the just the basics that say, yes, this person could could be good in front of clients and will behave.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'd rather home grow and teach somebody the way that we do things here because it it's not the same.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I I do a very different different job now to the one that I did for for either in my employed role or as the RI, you know, yeah.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, I uh yeah, I would home grow by choice by choice because I think you you learn much more.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I learnt way more.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So half of my uh chartered exams I passed because of my stockbroking experience.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you know, doing the investment AF paper was easy because it was all about stockbroking stuff.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think experience and learning is a way better.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just exams, is it?
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's soft skills and and questioning and empathy and thinking on your feet, and you can't, you know.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: What about age of a of an advisor?
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because um, you know, you tend to you know the average age of a financial advisor, we all know, is about 56, probably a little bit higher now, actually.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Higher been 56 for a long time, it's gotta be higher than that.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be higher, it's more like 58 or something, isn't it?
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got also on the other end of the scale, 1% of the financial planners out there are under the age of 30.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't a great deal of younger financial planners.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think being younger, as in younger looking as well, does that is that a detriment to becoming a financial planner?
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is it harder to sit in front of, say, a client when you're a younger talking about money, pensions, etc.?
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do they take younger advisors seriously or not?
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know if you'd asked me that last week, I'd have said, no, you you there's an element of gravitas and grown-upness that comes with it.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And how could you possibly know those kind of things without experience?
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have read a few articles by a young guy called Taylor Beavis, who is local in the Library as well.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: What's he, 22, 25, something like that?
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've read some stuff that he's put out, and I just think, do you know what?
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's a guy that is absolutely going places.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it yeah, there might be some people that you sit in front of that that don't, you know, oh young man, what could you possibly tell me?
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_01: What would you know?
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they're just not your clients, that they just don't fit.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have clients come through the door here that I'm just like, no, you're not, you don't fit, you're not my client.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I d and I think that's the there's a there's a client bank out there for anybody.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So no, I think it's how you position yourself and how and how you how you come across.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that comes, you know, you learn that through experience, which by nature makes you a little bit older.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he, however, has nailed it very young.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's doing really well because I've seen a bit of his content out there as well, actually, because he's getting publicised quite a bit, isn't he?
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, and I think um, I don't know, sometimes is you know, historically, when I've been working in recruitment quite some time and placing people into financial planning practices, and you the the amount of feedback we used to get if somebody was quite young, you know, if they were young, oh no, we're not too, they won't work very well with our with our clients.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was kind of alienating, it was quite ageist.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was alienating a lot of people and kind of possibly putting them off a little bit about getting you know, trying to get into financial planning.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_00: But you've got so much, so many more younger people now trying to get into financial planning.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are you know, people come to come to our website on a regular basis via the chat bot, you know, they're just finishing university, they want to become a financial planner.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_00: How do they get into financial planning?
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and um there's plenty of them out there, and I think um, as you rightfully said, there's plenty of there's plenty of clients out there who've got money of of all different ages, and not everybody is bothered by working with somebody who's younger than them, you know.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um and I think that'll keep changing.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the internet has an awful lot to answer for in that it makes everything available to everybody.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you you you choose somebody that you like, that you you know know, like and trust that resonates with you, and and there'll be people out there that won't mind um you know that somebody's a bit younger or not, or yeah, it's fine.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, cool.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all right, brilliant.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um so you're looking to grow, you've got you know, you've got four team of four there at the moment, support staff, looking to grow down that CRM route.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fair play.
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what about yourself then?
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you're out there, you're running, you're running the business, you're going out also.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you're running the business, you're hiring people, doing all that kind of stuff, you're overseeing what Rachel's doing in the team, um, you're going out and winning clients yourself as well, then.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So have you got to the point yet where you can kind of sit, kick back, and do absolutely nothing or you know, and bring somebody on?
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is that what it happens when you run your own business?
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can just you know get a certain number of clients' assets under management, loads of recurring income coming in, and you can just put your feet up.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that how it works?
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_01: That depends on your personality, I think.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't think so.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've only just started it and and I'm really enjoying it.
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is fun.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've got a uh a joint venture with a couple of others um back in back in the um employed advisor days.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_01: I did a lot of outplacement work through manpower for people being made redundant, and it was a really horrible sleazy sale kind of a um workshop thing.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've got a joint venture with a couple of others uh doing outplacement but with a financial planning bent and uh and a life coaching.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've been made redundant, do you want another job?
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want something different?
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how does all that work?
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's that's feeding clients into this business, but I think it's also you know, growing clients for the future, do you know those people may not be, yeah, they may only be 30, 40 something.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna want to come and do full-on financial planning.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's part of their outplacement package and their old boss is paying for it, and it sets them up the right way and and gives them a handle on what they're doing, then yeah, why not?
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you're looking to yeah, so you're branching into some other areas as well as as well as financial planning.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's strategy and planning and and business.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, listen to me talking like this.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Five years ago, I had no idea what how to spell strategy.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Never mind build one.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So somebody's sitting there thinking about becoming a financial planner on a self-employed basis.
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps they're thinking about setting up their own business.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to them?
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go on, go and do it.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's one of the most rewarding careers, and it's one of the best things I have ever done.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I loved I love the marine biology and I love the counting the sea urchins.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Being a stockbroker comes with its own, you know, cashier.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, do you know what I do?
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the world goes, oh, stockbroker, ooh, you must handle it.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, we don't.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, they didn't.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you work really hard and and you don't.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's not all champagne and Porsches, unfortunately.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I I really, really enjoy, I absolutely love uh being able to talk to a client and tell them that they will be alright, they have got enough with this tiny, tiny little tweak here.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: This could be brilliant as opposed to just good, or or whatever that is.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And just yeah, it's it's incredibly rewarding.
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, luckily for us, it also pays quite well.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and it, yeah, it's great.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just get stuck in, you know.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's the that's that's the key for doing it.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what about then going down the self-employed route?
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people are sitting there thinking, I could do this, I could go self-employed.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's a little niggle in the back of their minds and they're a little bit concerned.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the let's go back to that bit of advice then.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's thinking about going self-employed, what should be a little bit of a checklist?
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_00: What should they be thinking about ticking off their list before they make the plunge into self-employment?
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh being aware that you won't earn any money at all and/or be able to pay yourself probably for the first two years.
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_01: So having some kind of contingency uh savings or massive credit card allowance, or you know, I shouldn't say that out loud as a financial planner, but that's what I did.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all the computers, all the telephone systems, all the everything.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I stuck it on a credit card and just kind of opened the doors and went gulp.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, a bit more planning than I did would have been good.
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm a natural, I'm naturally quite impulsive.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm not a yeah, I'm naturally quite impulsive and a bit of a risk taker.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how come that's why I did it that way.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because no, a little bit of a bit of a backstop, a bit of a talk to financial planning community is amazing with how much help they will give you.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've posted on a couple of Facebook groups, you know, I need help with such and such.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and I've had messages in the background, you know, you get the little post on the Facebook page as well.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I've had calls in the background that goes, yeah, I can help you with that.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And do you need to meet so and so?
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and just the connections that are available.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, talk.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many people willing to give you help, it's incredible.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know that at the time.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's I think that's one part of it, isn't it?
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like um you can be cut, I think when you set up a business, you feel like you should be doing it all yourself.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you turn to somebody and ask for help, then it may be a sign of weakness or they'll think you're inadequate or or whatever it might be where you feel inadequate.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you kind of lock yourself up, put yourself under a huge amount of pressure until you absolutely break, and then you go and ask for help.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, why didn't I do this like three years ago?
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why have I just stressed my nut out trying to run like multiple tasks because I'm trying to save a few quid here and there when I could just go and ask somebody's help or outsource it out for a you know a few hundred quid instead of doing my brain in and working silly hours?
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, you know, with financial advisors, you kind of think, oh well, I'm intelligent and I'm and I know about numbers, so I should just be able to do this.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then you don't ask for help because you're embarrassed about it.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, do you know what?
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So is everybody else?
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just get sort of don't be afraid to ask for any, don't be afraid to ask for any help.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, if there is someone listening to this that is thinking, God, should I do it?
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Shouldn't I?
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Phone me, I'll talk to you.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, more than that.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um Yeah, no, absolutely, yeah.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um always looking to sort of introduce people that way.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, from my background as well, is you know, I've helped many a financial advisor go down the RI route, the AR route, set up directly authorised firms, and always talking to people about how to do it because I've vast experience of helping other people do it and um the mistakes they made and the things they've done really well.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_00: But um, great stuff.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the future looks bright for Brown Dog financial planning.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Then so you've got a couple of people there employed at the moment, hopefully going to grow in the future, happy to take on more financial advisors, not thinking about going down the directly authorized route then.
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are you sticking with being an AR?
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that your is it?
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's the what's the benefit?
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what's the benefits of being an AR to you at the moment?
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I've done I've done a lot of work with uh Brett Davidson recently.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um he was wheeled out by open work.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_01: He did a whole series of free workshops that stuff like that that was just here.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um so what else about you know, someone like what else they give me?
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um Voyant Training, Andy Hart on tap, um Brett Davidson to talk to, Michael Caulfield to talk to, uh Timeline, um Software, um Abraham Occasania to talk to.
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_01: All of those have come from my network.
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Those are all they're and they're all given to me.
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to pay for them.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I do have to pay for them.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_01: I pay a pay away to them, of course I do.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there are things like that.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a real support system that comes with with open work.
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and I, you know, I'm a member of a peer group, and there are probably 20 advisors that are within a 10, 15, 20 mile radius of me here, which I historically I would have thought of as my competitors.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um there are so many clients out there needing financial advice.
• 1:24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Another financial advisor is not really your competitor, you know.
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_01: You phone them up for help.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, you know, we meet up, uh we used to meet up once every three or four months um for the day and just share ideas and things that we were doing and and go for lunch and just actually have a great exchange of ideas and what was going on.
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we do it on Zoom at the moment and it works okay, it's not the same, but it doesn't come with a pint in the bar afterwards, but I'll have everything.
• 1:24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, yeah.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I was always taught by my previous, previous boss that other advisors are competitors.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're absolutely not.
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if they don't want to help you, they'll just say, Oh no, I'm too busy.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, they'll say, Yeah, absolutely, I can help you, it's not a problem.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know quite a lot of support from a network.
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, am I thinking of going directly authorized?
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Always.
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's where I came from, yes, always.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, every time I think about it, open work do something different.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, with portfolio of passives, uh voyant, you know, all these things have just kind of been every time I think about it, something else pops up that kind of solves the problem that I was griping about.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think as well, it takes away that research that you have to do.
• 1:25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So a network is out there doing it, they're out there hopefully sniffing around, trying to find the best technology, the best solutions, the things that are going to work for you so you don't have to.
• 1:25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you take that away, you've got to do it, haven't you?
• 1:25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it becomes incredible.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's a whole extra headache that comes with it that you know they've they've talked to all these fund managers and worked out that actually, you know, we had Neil Woodford on our panel until three months before it all exploded.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because he'd done a couple of things in the background and then went, no, we don't want it.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's someone else doing that due diligence.
• 1:26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'd I'd have been left carrying that can otherwise.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that yeah, there's enough to do with running a business, building a brand, looking for clients, managing a team, all the other things that that you that you you know that are bolted on to just being a financial advisor that you have to do.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, make it simple for yourself.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_01: There are some things that I just think, I could just do that too.
• 1:26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a kind of is it a bit of a prestige thing, do you think, having your own directly authorized firm?
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is it kind of like I'm doing it and it's me and you know, I don't need the help of anybody else, or or you know, what is it?
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's choice, isn't it?
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a little bit like being an employed advisor going, I could do that better somewhere else.
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I think it's that it's that whole here's the whole choice as opposed to, you know, I I work for a relatively restricted panel, but because all of most of the work that I do and most of the value that I add is the lifestyle planning part, you know, the investment part at the end is um a little bit controversially, I think matters less.
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um yours is more about the lifestyle financial planning you're saying there.
• 1:27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so okay, and then the investment side bolts on to the end of it.
• 1:27:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you hold an investment of any sort for a reasonable length of time and it will deliver.
• 1:27:30
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to buy an absolute dog consistently for it not to.
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_01: But if you buy and hold and a reasonably uh a reasonably good quality, not expensive, shoot the lights out.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's no point in going hunting for investment returns because the guy that is really good this year will be rubbish next year because of the way the investment cycle works, and different assets and different asset classes perform better at different times.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So a good balanced portfolio that offers a reasonable, sensible, steady return, and then add value to the bit, you know, the tax planning and the life planning and the goal setting and the do this to make it better.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_01: That that's in my opinion, is where the best value add is.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And listen, um, Jessima, thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna draw it to an end there.
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I think our listeners will understand a little bit about your journey and um also the running of your own business, AR versus DA and all that lifestyle financial planning stuff.
• 1:28:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate your time today.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, well thank you very much.
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, that was really interesting, Sam.
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right, no worries.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um really interesting talking about myself.
• 1:28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's great talking about yourself, isn't it?
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but no, um, I'll get that all um topped and tailed and we'll get that released and um you know, and we'll we'll keep we'll keep in contact.
• 1:28:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually really interesting reflecting.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I hadn't realized quite how far we'd come along this journey, and that's yeah, that's right.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's the thing I think podcasts do, because um the reason why I set this one up was when I did it, when I went onto a podcast and someone asked me a load of questions, I was like, wow, like you know, you put it into context how far you've actually come, and sometimes you can downplay what it is you've done in your journey, and you just kind of and it's like, well, actually, no, you run your own business, you've built your own business, you've built your own brand, you've hired people, you've won clients, you've got a good level of assets under management, you've got a good business there, and you've got other things going on, and you've got a few years ahead of you yet to make it even better.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think anybody, not everybody does that, you know, it's quite a tough thing to do, and there are plenty of people that are scared of doing that, but you took that plunge.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, fair play to you because not everybody goes off and runs their business.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's one in ten females within financial planning, and very, very few uh business owners are females, very few business owners are females.
• 1:29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's changing, but yes, it is.
• 1:29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it historically it's been a great suit, kind of a kind of a place.
• 1:30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um there needs to, but I do you know, I do think as well, you know, male-female thing, but I do think there needs to be more females in positions of influence within financial planning to attract more women into financial planning.
• 1:30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just think you know, women will see other women doing it, and that's the way it's that's that's the way people we're getting more women into the in into the um into the profession.
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so.
• 1:30:21
  SPEAKER_01: It'll come out as much more of a a mainstream occupation rather than a you know, it's a bit like engineering, isn't it?
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Women and engineering are few and far between as well.
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the tech industry and stuff.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 1:30:34
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Brill, nice one.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks very much, Jessime.
• 1:30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_01: See you soon.
• 1:30:39
  unknown: Cheers.