Latest / Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori / 124. The Long Road to Publishing Three Books in One Year

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124. The Long Road to Publishing Three Books in One Year · Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori

• 0:05
  Welcome to the Show, Don't Tell writing podcast with me, Suzy Vadori, where I peel back the layers of how to wow your readers with your fiction through nonfiction.
• 0:13
  Anybody can bang out a first draft, but it takes a little more work to make your book as amazing as it can be.
• 0:20
  Join me as I share the step-by-step writing techniques you could apply to your writing right away as I host successful writers who share a behind-the-scenes look at their own writing lives and as I live coach writers on their pages, giving practical writing examples that will make your own writing stronger.
• 0:38
  Nobody is born knowing how to write an engaging book.
• 0:42
  There are real and important skills that you need to learn.
• 0:45
  On this show, I cut through the noise and get you all the info you need.
• 0:49
  I can't wait to see how this information is going to transform your writing Sometimes I just love how the writing universe works, and when you've been in the industry for more than 15 years as I have, what goes around comes around, and sometimes you run into people.
• 1:06
  And that's what happened with me and my client, Monica Gertzen-Hirtlen, when we were at the same writer's conference, even though we don't live in the same province, this summer.
• 1:16
  And Monica let me know that one of the books that I had developmentally edited a few years back had been published, and I didn't even know.
• 1:23
  And, and here's the thing is sometimes we think that we're being loud about our publishing or our successes, but you gotta say it a lot of times, 'cause I'm not on there on social media all the time.
• 1:37
  So I- sometimes people forget to tag me in it.
• 1:40
  But this was great that we ran into each other and we were able to catch up on the podcast.
• 1:43
  I invited her to come on, which I love doing with clients that I've worked with'cause I know so much about their books and we can have such a deep discussion.
• 1:50
  This is no exception.
• 1:52
  Monica's actually put out three books in a period of 12 months, which is absolutely incredible.
• 1:58
  But the reason I wanted to have her on this podcast today was to talk about the fact that it's not looking at it, and for you out there in listener land saying,"Oh my gosh, I could never do three books in one year," that is not what happened.
• 2:10
  In fact, Monica's been working on these books for a very long time, and they all just came to fruition at once, which is an amazing way, especially when you're independently published, to actually get out there and build an audience.
• 2:23
  Uh, and Monica's doing that in spades.
• 2:25
  So it was a really interesting discussion.
• 2:27
  You're in for a treat to see just the behind the scenes and to remind us that sometimes when we see somebody put out three books in one year, there's so much more that went into it.
• 2:36
  So you'll get a glimpse of that on this episode today.
• 2:40
  Monica is an accountant, a sociologist, and a novelist.
• 2:44
  She always wanted to write but never thought it was a real job, and after her career and family, she returned to her childhood passion, and now she writes the stories she loves to read, which are about women having adventures and falling in love.
• 2:56
  Her debut novel, Star Crossed Alliance, was released in November 2025.
• 3:01
  Her second novel, the one that she and I worked on together, A Valley Girl Dilemma, released in March of 2026.
• 3:08
  And her latest release, Hideaway, is released in the fall of 2026 and is available now.
• 3:14
  She has long believed that science fiction is a place to reflect our world from new angles as well as imagine better worlds.
• 3:20
  Her short stories have been published in Search for the Any-Key, Impulse, Swords and Sorceries, Tales of Heroic Fantasy Volume Eight, The Best of Cafe Lit 14, and The Lorelei Signal She grew up, resides, and writes in Saskatoon on Treaty 6 territory and the homeland of the Métis.
• 3:40
  She's a member of the Saskatchewan Writers Guild, Saskatoon Writers Club Inc., and Women's Fiction Writers Association.
• 3:46
  Her novel, A Valley Girl Dilemma, that released in March, was the one that we worked on together, and it is a super fun rom-com set in the 1980s, which is now considered historical fiction.
• 3:58
  Enjoy.
• 4:00
  Welcome to the podcast, Monica.
• 4:02
  It's so exciting to see you here today.
• 4:06
  Thank you.
• 4:07
  Um- I was very excited to get the invitation, so yes, thank you.
• 4:10
  Yeah.
• 4:10
  I- it was really fun to run into one another and to find out that A Valley Girl Dilemma went out into the world.
• 4:16
  That's my best part about my job, is finding out what happens after the fact, and I don't always know.
• 4:21
  So, but here we're talking about, because this is a pretty amazing journey that you've been on, and here at the Show, Don't Tell writing podcast we like to go behind the scenes, 'cause I think it's, you know, w- we're like,"Oh, welcome to the show, Monica.
• 4:33
  You've independently published three books this year in different genres, and it sounds like all so amazing," and it is amazing.
• 4:41
  But, uh, what we really wanna talk about is if you're listening out there and you're a writer and comparing yourself, what did it take to get there?
• 4:50
  That's the thing.
• 4:50
  'Cause Monica, like, we didn't write three books this, you didn't write three books this year, correct?
• 4:55
  No.
• 4:56
  No.
• 4:56
  Not at all, right?
• 4:57
  So what were your goals when you first started writing?
• 5:00
  From your bio, you came back to writing in 2014.
• 5:04
  Tell us a little bit about that process of when you started taking your writing seriously again, of what happened there.
• 5:10
  I can't remember a time I didn't want to be a writer.
• 5:12
  I always wanted to be a writer.
• 5:13
  I love write- reading.
• 5:15
  I always read like a writer.
• 5:17
  And I, you know, I took creative writing in high school, you know, things like that.
• 5:20
  But it got set aside, family, career, all of those things, and it just sort of slipped away.
• 5:27
  And it was really, yeah, it was in 2014 that I was like, "Oh, I still wanna do this. I still love this." And I started dipping my toes into writing that I could share with a group of fellow enthusiasts for different fandoms, and started getting more and more into it.
• 5:44
  It's like, well, you know what?
• 5:45
  I still have stories in my head that have been there for literally decades.
• 5:50
  Decades.
• 5:50
  Th- I've been living these in my imagination for decades.
• 5:54
  It's like, I want to see if I can put some of these into words on the page.
• 6:01
  And so I started dipping my toe into that, and then looking for a community, right?
• 6:06
  'Cause the writing part you do by yourself, but community is so important.
• 6:10
  You need to talk to other writers.
• 6:12
  It's like, is what I'm going through, is this like normal or is there a normal?
• 6:16
  And getting that feeling of like, okay, yeah, it is a lot of work.
• 6:20
  It's supposed to be a lot of work, but you do wanna love it.
• 6:24
  It still should give you joy.
• 6:25
  But yeah, you gotta sit down.
• 6:27
  It's not gonna just happen.
• 6:28
  You can just wait for inspiration, but then you're a waiter, not a writer.
• 6:32
  Yeah, exactly.
• 6:34
  You know, there is work, and you have to s- you have to sit down, you have to put the words down, and you have to show up for yourself day in, day out, and it doesn't have to be every day.
• 6:42
  Like, everybody's process is different.
• 6:44
  There's no right way to do it.
• 6:46
  I can talk about my journey, but it's not the right way.
• 6:48
  Everyone's gonna find something.
• 6:50
  They're gonna find their own path.
• 6:51
  But it does mean showing up, no matter what that path is.
• 6:54
  And you have showed up in spades this year.
• 6:56
  Three books, Star-Crossed Alliance, A Valley Girl Dilemma, Hideaway.
• 7:01
  Were any of those three books the stories that in 2014 had been kicking around for decades in your brain, or all three?
• 7:07
  Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 7:08
  Yeah, actually, i- in that time period, it was from about November of 2018 to November of 2019, actually four, I completed four manuscripts in that period of time.
• 7:18
  One of them didn't spark with me, and I ended up rewriting it from scratch, and it's still sitting there.
• 7:25
  I do hope to give that one life.
• 7:27
  But yeah, these are three, and then since then I've written two more manuscripts.
• 7:31
  And the- Oh my goodness.
• 7:33
  Yeah.
• 7:33
  So I, I actually had six completed manuscripts there, and they were all stories that had been in my… Yeah, the, the romance had been there for literally 10, 15, 20, 30 years.
• 7:43
  And so that's, that's the one that you and I had the opportunity to discuss in 2023 when I dev edited- Yeah … A Valley Girl Dilemma, which was, had a different name.
• 7:51
  I'm gonna talk about that in a minute.
• 7:52
  Had a different name at that time.
• 7:54
  But how did it go when you sat down to, when you sat down to write, what was that process?
• 8:00
  So you just sat down and wrote them, and then you published them?
• 8:03
  Or how did it go?
• 8:03
  'Cause I mean, I, I have a little bit of background 'cause I worked with you on it, but how did it go for you?
• 8:08
  What was it that your community or what were the skills that you found that you had to learn along the way to make these into…'Cause I mean, finishing a draft is a huge accomplishment- Mm … a first draft.
• 8:22
  Mm. But we know in our hearts that that's not what we're gonna publish, right?
• 8:25
  And you're, you were willing to learn and do the work and get these publish ready.
• 8:29
  So what were the steps that you went through after you finished those drafts to get there?
• 8:34
  So in my process, the, the plot is the part that's in my head.
• 8:38
  I know where they're gonna end.
• 8:40
  I've got that all set.
• 8:41
  So that comes out in the first draft.
• 8:44
  But what I'm learning, even in the first draft, but especially in the drafts after that, is my character.
• 8:52
  So then I really start to get to know her, and she starts to take shape, and I start thinking about, why would somebody do that?
• 8:59
  What was she thinking?
• 9:01
  What was she- Yeah … feeling?
• 9:03
  And then digging into that.
• 9:05
  And that's, that's, a lot of the drafts after that first one are digging into that character, thinking about what's in her past, what's in her head, what's in her heart, what's driving her.
• 9:17
  Why is she doing this, and what's her motivation, and what's she trying to get to?
• 9:24
  How does she not get there and make it worse, and then get there in the end?
• 9:29
  And what does she learn when she's going through that?
• 9:31
  So those are the parts I'm really digging into.
• 9:35
  And of course, if the story's so complete in your head, everything's there, and you have to transfer that into another human head using just words on the page.
• 9:47
  Yes, yes.
• 9:48
  So, and that's the part, so during the revision process, eventually you need other people to read it because You thought it was on the page, and they're going, "Well, why, what's going on here?" It's like, well, I, oh, it's- What does she want?
• 10:01
  My favorite question, right?
• 10:02
  Yes.
• 10:03
  What does the character want?
• 10:04
  Yeah.
• 10:05
  And it wasn't on the page, and it's like, okay, well what- It's there now.
• 10:08
  I was really excited.
• 10:09
  It was the first thing I looked for in chapter one.
• 10:11
  It's there.
• 10:12
  Oh, that's g- that's so thrilling.
• 10:13
  When I got the beta, I was like, definitely there.
• 10:15
  So clear.
• 10:16
  So clear.
• 10:17
  Oh, okay.
• 10:18
  Look, people, I mean, you, there's a lot to unpack with what you just said there, Monica, and you're absolutely right.
• 10:23
  Plot is very important, especially when you're writing romance, because romance or mystery, um, have very defined plot moments, beats that you must have or you kind of lose your readers a little bit.
• 10:36
  And yours plays with some of it.
• 10:37
  It's not exactly the formula, which is perfect.
• 10:40
  You can play with some of it, but there are things that, you know, we want a happy ending.
• 10:44
  We want a, all the things that make it a romance.
• 10:46
  But it is true, if you don't have your character growing and changing and wanting something, you really don't have a story.
• 10:53
  So those two things, you know, we can talk about whether people write plot forward or, or character forward, but the way that you're describing it is the way that I teach because that's what is the way that really works well in readers' brains is when you have both, right?
• 11:07
  You've got the plot, but it also makes sense.
• 11:10
  It's consistent.
• 11:12
  What often happens, and I can't remember if we had this issue with the first draft of this book, but what often happens is by the end of the book, the writer knows the character very well, and then their choices start to be very consistent and their voice is very strong, and then you have to go back and make it match through the entire book, and that's really-- When I say you can't publish a first draft, please don't publish your first draft, right?
• 11:37
  Like, not that you did.
• 11:38
  You didn't.
• 11:38
  I'm just saying for listeners out there.
• 11:40
  Because yeah, one of the things that happens is we grow and change and learn, and we can have the best outlining process in the world.
• 11:46
  We're not gonna get into our characters' bodies and heads and motivations and all of that.
• 11:52
  You're gonna have some notes on it, but you'll truly understand it by the end of that first draft, and then your job as a writer is to go back and to weave all of that back through.
• 12:02
  And then, yes, to share it with your critique partners, with your developmental editor, whoever it is that you choose to work with, and say, "Hey, did I do the thing?" And they're probably gonna say,"Some places, yes, and here's where there's work to be done." And so yeah, one of the, and we just talked about what does your character want?
• 12:22
  That is related to agency.
• 12:24
  We actually have two recent episodes on the podcast on agency if you're wanting more information on that.
• 12:29
  We'll drop that link in the show notes.
• 12:31
  Okay, so what is hard about writing, coming back to writing after being away for a while?
• 12:36
  What was hard about it?
• 12:38
  Wow, that's an interesting question because I really rediscovered my love for it as much as anything.
• 12:44
  Like I says- So nothing was hard.
• 12:46
  I love that.
• 12:47
  I said, well, figuring out what the character wanted and getting on the page.
• 12:52
  Yeah.
• 12:52
  I would say, yeah.
• 12:53
  The digging down deep to the emotion That's the part that I most had to work on, I would say.
• 13:00
  And so getting that feedback when you share it with readers and saying, "Ooh, whoops, I missed that," it's not the best feeling, right, to get that feedback.
• 13:08
  But how did you take that?
• 13:10
  No, that was, I- the feedback is good because I don't know how it's landing in other people's heads, and everybody's experience is different.
• 13:17
  Every single person- Yeah … who reads a book, they have a different experience.
• 13:21
  Exactly.
• 13:21
  But you still, there's certain things you need to get out there so that everybody is at least picking up on something.
• 13:28
  And yeah, I, and I keep, you know, I, I kept saying, "Oh, I thought, I thought I got more of what she wanted, what she was feeling on the page." Like, yeah, but I didn't get it here and here.
• 13:37
  It's like, okay, I'll keep working on that.
• 13:39
  Yeah.
• 13:39
  So, and digging down again.
• 13:42
  I love that you were working on sort of one specific thing in those drafts.
• 13:45
  That's awesome.
• 13:46
  Okay, so how did you make the time?
• 13:49
  Because, you know, we're talking about a 12-year span.
• 13:51
  Yes, you put three books out this year, but you started 12 years ago getting these stories down.
• 13:56
  So, so what was your journey in terms of, and everybody listening here, there's gonna be lots of other people who've been working on books for more than a decade.
• 14:03
  That's, that's common, right?
• 14:05
  So what was it for you?
• 14:07
  Like, how did you make that time, and how did you weave that into your life and make writing a priority to eventually get it done?
• 14:14
  Or did you?
• 14:15
  Well, I, I mean, I was lucky that I did this at the point where my kids were independent, so- Yeah … that, that, that frees up a little time.
• 14:24
  You're not running around, you're not doing a lot of those things.
• 14:26
  It, it's not as intensive labor time, parenting at that stage.
• 14:31
  Well, Star-Crossed Alliance actually, in the name that it had when it was first written, was a NaNoWriMo project.
• 14:37
  And, you know, i- y- there's lots of opinions about that whole program.
• 14:43
  But it did, it did get, it got popular because it filled a need in people to have this whole community around you that sit down and said, "Put your words on the page.
• 14:54
  Put your words on the page.
• 14:55
  You can do it.
• 14:56
  You can do it.
• 14:57
  Put your words on the page." And that, it, I think it probably set up an expectation in myself to, to just sit down and do it.
• 15:06
  It's like, oh yeah, I, even if I only had an hour, and even if I only got 200 words, I was there, and it just got me doing that.
• 15:14
  And I did, yeah, actually Hideaway also was a NaNoWriMo project, so two of them started out that way.
• 15:20
  Now, not many of the words that were put down in November of that year are actually still in the book, because that's what revision is all about.
• 15:28
  But it did make that habit.
• 15:30
  It did show me that if you just show up when you can for as long as you can, you can get there.
• 15:38
  If it's a baby step, take a baby step, and if it's a giant leap and you've got 10,000 words that day, great.
• 15:43
  If you- Yeah … write, you know, three chapters that day, great.
• 15:48
  But you can do it, and just sit down and do it.
• 15:51
  Yeah.
• 15:51
  So for those of you listening out there, NaNoWriMo is National Novel Writing Month, which used to be held in November.
• 15:58
  They had some, lots of things happen politically within their organization, and it's not really as well organized anymore.
• 16:05
  Some people are doing it still in different ways, but there's lots of other programs.
• 16:08
  But the concept behind it is really solid, which is to take a month and write every single day and get as far along as you can, and the goal is to write 50,000 words, which I think I've seen on your website that you won it a couple of times, right?
• 16:23
  So you win if you hit that number.
• 16:25
  But as Monica's saying, you know, don't take that draft and then send it off to your developmental editor, 'cause we won't take it.
• 16:32
  We'll be like, "Hey, there's a little work here to be done." But there's a lot of things that you can learn by doing that a few times.
• 16:38
  And the more planning, I don't know if you did this the second time that you did it, but the more planning or thinking that you do before sitting down to do it, the closer that draft is gonna be when you get it done.
• 16:49
  Now, if you didn't do that, that's fine.
• 16:51
  You still g- get a lot of that exploratory or, we call it pantsing, right?
• 16:55
  Pantsing it or writing by the seat of your pants, but we also call it discovery writing, which is like we figure it out as we go.
• 17:01
  But then it's nice to take a step back once you've got that draft, then you can take a step back and sort of layer on the shape of the book and figure out what you've got, and then go and do another draft.
• 17:12
  It's interesting.
• 17:12
  So some of your blog posts were interesting, 'cause you've shared a lot about word count, and yeah, definitely go check out Monica's blog.
• 17:19
  But you shared a lot about word count, and specifically I think it was for Star-Crossed Alliance, how it changed over time, and it went up and it went down, and it went up and it went down.
• 17:28
  What is your relationship, maybe you can share this for the newer writers out there that are just trying to figure out does word count matter and wh- why are we tracking it?
• 17:37
  So there's two different things.
• 17:37
  Sorry, just before you … I'm gonna let you answer.
• 17:39
  But before, when I say that, I just talked about word count being how much you wrote in a day.
• 17:45
  This is like how much is actually in the book, which is the question that I'm asking.
• 17:49
  In my other life I'm an accountant, so I work with numbers a lot.
• 17:54
  You know, numbers and spreadsheets is just natural for me.
• 17:58
  That's just me.
• 18:00
  It doesn't have to work that way for anybody else.
• 18:03
  But word count was a good way for me to measure, because there are certain expectations with a novel, right?
• 18:11
  If it's 30,000 words, that's not a novel, that's a novella, and you're probably gonna do something different with that than you're gonna do with a novel that's more like 80,000 words.
• 18:22
  Also, if you're like 150,000 words, you probably need to take a step back and say, "Is this something that's gonna really engage a reader?" Now, if you're writing for yourself, of course, th- there's no rules.
• 18:34
  Like, all the bets are off.
• 18:35
  You do whatever you want.
• 18:37
  But if you're writing and you're planning to market it and sell this book to readers, there are certain expectations you need to meet, and word count is one of them.
• 18:45
  They expect it to be a certain length, and they will make certain judgments about the book just from the size of it.
• 18:51
  If it's a small, short book, it's like,"Oh, that's something that I read on the beach." If it's kind of big and heavy, it's like, "Oh, this is something I'm gonna…" They're gonna approach their reading experience differently.
• 19:01
  So I, I use the word count in those ways, and I do also, I am very goal-oriented.
• 19:10
  That, and again, that's just me.
• 19:12
  I, and this is one of the reasons why- Like, you're checking it off.
• 19:14
  Like, it all has to get done, right?
• 19:16
  Yeah.
• 19:16
  So if you've got a list, and you're checking it off, this is how you ended up with three books that were publish-ready the same year, right?
• 19:23
  Did you do that on purpose?
• 19:25
  Did you wait?
• 19:26
  Or were they just all ready at the same time?
• 19:28
  How did y- how did you do that?
• 19:30
  How did, did you work on them all at the same time?
• 19:32
  Did you work on them one at a time?
• 19:34
  I do cycle through.
• 19:36
  When I've done a revision pass of a manuscript, I'm gonna be setting it aside, often for a year.
• 19:41
  It often sits for a year.
• 19:43
  So during that year, though, I'm doing nothing.
• 19:45
  I'm working on a different one.
• 19:48
  And so I cycle through them, and they sort of ended up a bit in lockstep.
• 19:51
  That wasn't a plan.
• 19:54
  That was just, they kind of, they ended up on the page within the span of a year, and they sort of went through the process at about the same pace, other than the one, like I said, that is still sitting there.
• 20:06
  These three sort of went through at about the same pace, and that's why they sort of matured at about the same time When I made the decision, like I did, I did try the traditional publishing route.
• 20:17
  I did do the submission process.
• 20:20
  When I made the decision, when I set my deadline, it's like if I don't have a publisher by December 31st of 2024, then I'm gonna start sourcing my own editors.
• 20:29
  I'm gonna source my own cover designers.
• 20:31
  I'm gonna, I'm gonna tackle all that.
• 20:32
  I'm gonna learn it.
• 20:34
  Then I s- I decided, you know, these three are close, and it makes sense to release them relatively close and build up that momentum.
• 20:43
  So on the marketing side, it made sense since they were close to keep the releases close and, and- Yeah build on that marketing launch.
• 20:52
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:53
  And okay, so just to clarify, you were submitting directly to publishers that didn't require agents, or you were also querying, trying to find an agent?
• 21:01
  It, it was both.
• 21:02
  Yeah.
• 21:02
  It was both.
• 21:03
  Yeah, both of those things.
• 21:04
  And it can be a, a, I mean especially because, okay, let's talk genre for a minute because you've got books that are in, I'd say at least two different genres.
• 21:12
  I'm not sure if Star-Crossed Alliance and Hideaway have some, some kind of, maybe I'll let you speak about this.
• 21:18
  How do you view them in terms of genre?
• 21:20
  Because this is difficult because you're trying to market to three different reader bases potentially, right?
• 21:25
  Yeah, and that, and that is the whole reason.
• 21:28
  Like, anytime we try to label art, and that's music, books, whatever it is, anytime we try to label them, very difficult because they don't fit well into boxes just like human beings.
• 21:38
  But you need those labels to match the readers to the books, 'cause you want the right reader to pick up your book.
• 21:44
  You want somebody to enjoy it.
• 21:46
  We- you want them to, to get what they're looking for out of that reading experience.
• 21:51
  So when I came up- like, Star Crossed Alliance is one that doesn't fit well.
• 21:58
  It's not really fantasy, 'cause there's no magic, but it is a medieval fantasy type world.
• 22:04
  It's not strong science fiction, but there's a science fiction element, and then there's also the romantic element, but it's not technically a romance and- Mm-hmm.
• 22:12
  It doesn't follow all the beats.
• 22:13
  Yeah, where you have, like, the two viewpoints, they meet in chapter one.
• 22:17
  Uh, it doesn't quite match that.
• 22:19
  So it was a difficult one to label.
• 22:22
  Hideaway is a little bit easier 'cause it's, it's a romantic science fiction.
• 22:26
  It's pretty solidly science fiction.
• 22:28
  And then Valley Girl Dilemma didn't fit either of those 'cause- Yeah in the m- in the 1980s, whether you wanna consider that historical or not.
• 22:38
  That was gonna be my next question- Yeah … because that's, you know- But- I know writers often come to me, and we probably had this conversation too.
• 22:45
  It's like, "Hey, you know that's considered…" And I, I mean, now they have another label, which is 20th century historical romance is, like, an actual category.
• 22:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:54
  Um, but that can go anywhere from 1900, right?
• 22:57
  So 1980, um, sorry for those of us who grew up in the '80s, it is considered, and even the '90s are considered historical, and that, that's a tough pill for a lot of writers to swallow.
• 23:09
  And it doesn't mean, but let's not get hung up on genre.
• 23:12
  Like you said, we don't always fit into boxes, but there are some really cool things, and this is one of the things that I see that you've done really well that we talked about at the time when I looked at this in t- a couple of years ago, is really leaning into it.
• 23:26
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:26
  Because a lot of your readers are gonna be younger than us and didn't live in those '80s.
• 23:32
  Um, and now when I look there, even on the cover, you've got, like, cassette tapes and, and the shades and the disco ball and the different things that existed, and a boombox, like different things that existed in the'80s, and you really leaned in there.
• 23:47
  Now there are cars, there's songs, there's, like, all … I mean, some of that was there- But there's even more, right?
• 23:53
  There's even more now.
• 23:54
  And I think that's a really fun thing to really lean into.
• 23:57
  So the reason that I would say it's solidly historical fiction, even, like regardless of whether you want it to be or not, I mean, it's almost 50 years, right?
• 24:08
  Like 45 years ago.
• 24:09
  Yeah, I know.
• 24:10
  Well, I know.
• 24:10
  That's all I should say.
• 24:12
  So but the thing is, is that you can follow or le- or like borrow from historical fiction in terms of how to world build and what's important- Mm-hmm… and what's important looking back.
• 24:23
  And I think, you know, especially in A Valley Girl Dilemma, you actually explored some pretty deep themes in there.
• 24:30
  So it's this, it's a light book.
• 24:32
  You wanted it to be a beach read or whatever it is, and yet there's an unmarried, there's a pregnancy in there or an, a unexpected pregnancy.
• 24:41
  There's women's independence.
• 24:42
  There's all of those sort of themes in there about what it was and what the expectations were in the '80s for a young woman, and those are pretty cool concepts to, to put in there, even in a light-hearted book.
• 24:56
  Did you do that on purpose, or did they kind of sneak up on you in that way?
• 24:59
  That's hard to answer because there are some deep themes in all of my books, and a lot of them, uh, like when I went back to writing, uh, like I said, the romances were in my head for decades, but I only recently, it was in 2017 that I finished my degree in sociology.
• 25:16
  So that's when themes like there's, in the others, there's a lot of themes of colonialism.
• 25:21
  There's a lot of themes of feminism, you know, gender identity, all of these sorts of things.
• 25:26
  So s- those are gonna be in my writing, and they, they're gonna show up even in A Valley Girl Dilemma.
• 25:32
  That one, A Valley Girl Dilemma, just so people know, is very white.
• 25:37
  It's very white.
• 25:38
  But that kind of reflects the'80s that were there for me, and I, I didn't even know.
• 25:42
  It's like I always try to bring s- diversity into my books.
• 25:46
  Even though I'm writing, I'm a white settler person, I- that's the voice I'm gonna write in.
• 25:50
  I'm not gonna pretend to be anybody else.
• 25:52
  But I also want to always acknowledge that there are m- many diverse, you know, people are, are so complex And I always wanna acknowledge that people are complex and that all of that does need to be reflected in any character because that's what hum- that's what being human is.
• 26:09
  Yeah, definitely.
• 26:10
  And I think, yes, and you do represent economic diversity very well in that book.
• 26:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:16
  And so if you think about it that way, yes, the character, the main character comes from a privileged, very white background, yet that s- doesn't necessarily dictate the choices that she makes in the book.
• 26:28
  And so, you know, you do, you do definitely have that economic disparity piece and exploring it in that way.
• 26:35
  So I could see- Mm-hmm … like that makes sense that's what you're doing all of your books.
• 26:38
  It's, it's difficult, and I work through this a lot, um, especially with books set in the '80s and '90s.
• 26:44
  Just because it was one way or things were the way that they were then, we have readers that are 45, 50 years older now, and we have a lot more perspective, thank goodness.
• 26:56
  And so we don't always represent things the way that they actually were in the '80s, and I think you've done a good job of that- Thank you … in terms of have- being open to that or having your main character not just accept her circumstances or allow her f- fancy family to dictate her life.
• 27:13
  So you've done a good job of that.
• 27:15
  I think, you know, if that book were written in the '80s, you might have had a very different character, or that might have been very avant-garde for her to do or very unusual for her to actually … So yeah, so just, just so you know, uh, w- I think you've done a pretty good job of that.
• 27:29
  When, when we look at, you know, especially when it comes to attitudes towards underrepresented populations, a lot of times when people start to write in the '80s or '90s, th- they'll give voice to some things that we might have heard then, which would never be said or acceptable in public today, and they say, "Well, you know, that's what it was said," but we don't need to give those things voice, and you don't, right?
• 27:51
  You really have that 2026 lens looking back on that and kinda having fun with those themes.
• 27:58
  So anyways, I think you've done a good job of that.
• 28:00
  Thank you.
• 28:00
  And like your own book journey, that book in particular spans quite a number of, like quite a spans of time, which romances don't always, right?
• 28:10
  And, and- Mm because we have, you know, big life decisions, and I don't wanna give any spoilers, but we have big life decisions being made that require some time to come about.
• 28:21
  And so, but how did you find that?
• 28:23
  Because that can be a very difficult technical thing to decide how do you span time and not, you know, not cover, it's like a memoir.
• 28:32
  We don't want cradle to grave.
• 28:33
  We want the moment, right?
• 28:35
  And I think that book probably spans two years or three maybe.
• 28:39
  Not sure.
• 28:40
  But how, you know, how did you find that in terms of figuring out how to keep it not being 150,000 words?
• 28:47
  Or did you just do it naturally?
• 28:48
  Was it something that you weren't even aware of?
• 28:51
  Yeah, I- that's a good question.
• 28:52
  Like, as far, there's a point in the book where there's a time skip, and that's built in to the plot because of something that happens.
• 29:00
  There's a certain amount of time that has to take there And yeah, the, the time after that, that's actually one of the things that I'm working on, and that was more so actually with my most recent book, with Hideaway, is I had some time skips in there, and I was very lucky to get a mentorship actually with Saskatchewan Writers Guild.
• 29:20
  Great program.
• 29:21
  Congratulations.
• 29:22
  Thank you.
• 29:23
  She was like, "You've got some time skips in here." She said, "Why, why are there, why are you skipping forward in time here?" I was like,"Cool." So it was at that point that I started thinking more about that.
• 29:33
  I was like, "Oh, why, yeah, it- does that make sense for a time skip there?
• 29:38
  Like, does that lessen the tension?" So that's actually something I've only recently started working on.
• 29:44
  So with The Valley Girl Dilemma, if I had to go back and redo it, would I do it differently?
• 29:48
  I'm not sure.
• 29:50
  I would probably pay closer attention to that, 'cause I'm not sure I gave that the attention that it deserved as I was doing it.
• 29:57
  Yeah.
• 29:57
  I think, to be clear, and like you said, everybody who reads it is gonna have a different experience, and lots of editors out there will have different opinions on this.
• 30:06
  But in terms of there's the plot, and you said it, you start with plot, and then you figure out the character, and that's your process.
• 30:13
  But you have the plot, and you know that there are things that happen, and sometimes you write all of those scenes.
• 30:18
  But your job as the artist, the actual job of being a writer, is to be the director and to decide when do we zoom in and slow things down, and which pieces are actually important- Mm … and which pieces can I zoom out and skip over?
• 30:31
  And you absolutely can skip time, by the way, but there should be a reason.
• 30:36
  And if the reason is because she sat around in her house and did nothing for nine months, then please don't make us sit around in her house and do nothing for nine months.
• 30:44
  Yeah.
• 30:44
  So, you know, there, there are definitely times when you wanna skip that, and it's, it's an artistic choice.
• 30:50
  So I love that you're looking at it and saying, "Yeah, now I'm thinking deeply about it." But don't let the answer be, this is my word of caution, don't let the answer be that you must fill in that time.
• 31:01
  Those are the scenes where we just don't need them.
• 31:04
  And lots of times it's traveling somewhere that's not important or, you know, waiting around for something that's not important.
• 31:11
  So what are those, which scenes do you need to show your character that's actually moving along the arc? Which ones are important?
• 31:18
  Which ones are actually gonna help your reader understand?
• 31:21
  And which ones can you skip?
• 31:23
  I think you did a marvelous job of skipping time.
• 31:25
  It's a hard skill for writers to learn, and I think that it speaks to the amount of revisions that you have done on your books.
• 31:33
  And they will become less as you go, probably, unless you love the process.
• 31:38
  If you're me, I write out of order, and then it, there's a lot of work to do to kind of weave it back together, which has just been my process.
• 31:45
  And it's not the way I teach other people to do it.
• 31:47
  I do have clients who do it that way, but s- most are horrified when they find out I write that way.
• 31:52
  And for me, it's because of my limited time and because of my split focus.
• 31:56
  I work on about 100 books a year right now in some capacity, whether that's just one page or a review or working with a writer, or it's the entire manuscript.
• 32:05
  So when I have time to write, I have to pay a lot of attention to what is left to write and what do I feel like writing in this moment, and what do I think I can do well, so that I don't end up with those scenes that are, like, filling time or discovery process, 'cause I won't use them, and so trying to be more efficient.
• 32:23
  But yeah, I think you did a great job of that.
• 32:25
  So you decided to publish independently.
• 32:29
  Are you happy with that decision?
• 32:31
  Yes, I am.
• 32:32
  And it was, it's a lot more work.
• 32:34
  You know- How's it been?
• 32:35
  More, more halves, right?
• 32:36
  I don't mind learning things, so it's like, okay, well, let's go learn some more stuff.
• 32:41
  And like, uh, now my sociology degree is done, so let's learn marketing and publishing and formatting and finding cover artists and all of that sort of thing.
• 32:50
  And I generally find that there's kind of two reasons that people go that route.
• 32:55
  One is control.
• 32:57
  People that, that want that extra level of control.
• 33:00
  And I actually didn't.
• 33:01
  As- I'd have been happy for someone else to decide where the chapter breaks go.
• 33:05
  Well- To hire the editor, to find the editor, to find the cover artists.
• 33:09
  I would have been happy for somebody else to do all that.
• 33:12
  But the other main reason I think that people go the indie route is time, is speed.
• 33:17
  Because you spend all that time submitting, and then the agent's gonna spend time submitting, and then even when you eventually get a deal after however many years have gone by, then it's 18 months before it hits the shelves.
• 33:29
  Whereas I have my books in my hand, and I, I have the solid proof that I put that time in and that, that something exists in the world.
• 33:37
  And there's something in holding your book and going, "Yeah, it's done. It exists.
• 33:43
  It's here." And I have that satisfaction, so yes, I am happy that I went that route.
• 33:49
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:50
  And, and you have a lot of control.
• 33:52
  You know, would have been difficult with three different genres and three different- Mm-hmm … through the traditional process would have been a lot more difficult to get those out in this short timeframe.
• 34:01
  But how's it been going?
• 34:02
  The books are out.
• 34:03
  You've got, you know, I think it was last fall, fall 2025, and then February, and then just now, right?
• 34:10
  Or- Yeah, the book launch was last week.
• 34:12
  You know what?
• 34:12
  It has its ups and downs.
• 34:14
  Well, writing has its ups and downs, period.
• 34:16
  There's, you're over the moon, fly- And then just like, oh my God, you get this crushing whatever.
• 34:22
  So there's ups and downs.
• 34:23
  But it's mostly good, and the community around me, the support of other writers, not just other writers, also readers.
• 34:31
  The support of people around you that give you, say, "Way to go," like, "You did it." That, oh, it's like, oh, that's awesome, and that come to your book launch or, you know, come to a signing or buy your book or even just give you a thumbs up online.
• 34:45
  Like, the support for doing that, that's almost the best part.
• 34:49
  But it's really great, like you write this story and you hope that somebody's gonna enjoy it.
• 34:53
  Like, that's my purpose in reading.
• 34:55
  That's my purpose in sharing stories, that somebody has a good time.
• 34:59
  They enjoy it.
• 35:00
  They feel good.
• 35:01
  And when somebody comes and says,"Oh, I really loved your book," that's just the best feeling.
• 35:07
  It's like, "Oh, I just needed to tell you that this was so good." And it just feels so great.
• 35:12
  And it, and that reward is just, yeah, it kind of makes up for some of the times that it's felt like a lot of work Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:20
  Has your life changed since you put the first book out?
• 35:24
  Having books in your hands, has anything in your life changed significantly or no?
• 35:28
  There … It's gotten busier.
• 35:29
  So yeah, 'cause there's, I mean, you gotta get your newsletter out every month, and you've got, and you've got to arrange signings, and you've got to meet with libraries, and you've got to arrange launches.
• 35:39
  I wish that the listeners could actually see your smile.
• 35:42
  Oh.
• 35:42
  You're, like, beaming.
• 35:44
  It sounds like a complaint.
• 35:46
  You're, like, listing all these work things, but you're- But it feels good … clearly enjoying it, right?
• 35:51
  Like, clearly excited to be doing it.
• 35:53
  Yeah, I mean, the book launch for Hideaway was just last week, and I've had it, you know, the launch in a different place each time.
• 35:59
  Looking out, standing up to read from my book and looking out and seeing those faces, and it's like, aw, it just, it's just like, thank you, guys.
• 36:06
  Thank you for your support, and thank you for the journey all along the way, right?
• 36:10
  The other writers that are willing to listen to you talk about writing so that the other people in your life don't have their eyes spinning in their head, going, "Why are you even doing this?" But they come to the… Yeah, but those people will come to the party and celebrate with you too, but, but- Absolutely, they do Yeah Yes, and my husband, bless his soul, who is not, he doesn't read fiction.
• 36:29
  It's not what he does, but he has read, when my books come out, he sits down and reads it cover to cover, and he enjoys it, and oh, that feels good, too.
• 36:36
  Yeah, amazing.
• 36:38
  Okay.
• 36:38
  I like to tell writers when they're like, "Oh, is it even worth it?" I'm like, it's gonna change your life.
• 36:43
  I don't know how.
• 36:45
  For you right now, it's logistically changed your life, and for me, that was having kids as well.
• 36:49
  People told me kids were gonna change my life, and I thought they meant, like, metaphorically or spiritually- Oh or something.
• 36:55
  And, and yeah, that too, but, like, no, physically.
• 36:58
  I now, you know, I now have to be responsible for somebody at any given time in my life, and I'm almost to that stage that you were talking about where they're independent.
• 37:06
  I've got two in university and one still in high school.
• 37:09
  So we're almost there.
• 37:11
  But yeah, I think, you know, writing a book does change your life.
• 37:14
  How is it going to change?
• 37:16
  I don't know.
• 37:17
  You know, I can't say that every writer even knows what they want.
• 37:20
  But you're in the thick of it.
• 37:21
  You've launched three books, and I can see how the learning, especially on the independently publishing side and everything that you had to learn, probably was great to do three at once.
• 37:32
  That's better bang for your buck, right?
• 37:33
  'Cause you, you kinda, you probably learn more with each one, but The layout's similar, and the working with a cover is similar, and all of those things that you have to learn that first time.
• 37:43
  So good on you.
• 37:44
  All right, so we have reached the quick-fire portion of this segment.
• 37:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:49
  And I just have a couple of quick questions for you.
• 37:53
  So let's take your latest book, or actually, which was the first one that you started to write?
• 37:58
  It was Dark Cross Alliance.
• 37:59
  Okay.
• 38:00
  It was the Lapis trilogy.
• 38:00
  And it was also the first one that came out.
• 38:01
  Okay.
• 38:01
  Lapis.
• 38:01
  So how long did it take you from the time that you first thought of it, you said decades, but let's put a number to it, until it was published in fall of 2025?
• 38:11
  It was almost exactly seven years from first draft to publication.
• 38:16
  Okay.
• 38:16
  But how long would it have been in my head before that?
• 38:18
  Yeah, literally probably 30 years.
• 38:20
  So let's say- Yeah … 37 years from concept to having a paperback in your hand.
• 38:26
  Amazing.
• 38:27
  Okay.
• 38:28
  Now, what was your first big break where you were like, "Oh my gosh, I'm actually gonna publish these three books in a year"?
• 38:35
  What happened that was sort of your impetus for that?
• 38:39
  Ooh, tough question.
• 38:40
  I'm not sure, 'cause I, that, that was always, like I said, that was always the goal.
• 38:44
  The goal was to write a story, put it into words, and put it into the world.
• 38:49
  So- Or was it the decision that you made, you gave yourself a deadline?
• 38:52
  I d- If I don't have… Yeah.
• 38:54
  If I don't have this done, I'm doing it.
• 38:56
  So perhaps the big break that you got was actually from yourself.
• 39:00
  I love that.
• 39:02
  Maybe.
• 39:02
  Yeah, you could say that.
• 39:04
  The ultimatum, if I don't have a traditional contract by this point in time, I'm gonna do this thing.
• 39:09
  I love it.
• 39:11
  Um, and what's your best advice for writers who are listening who haven't published their first book yet, and just are kind of thinking, "Is it all worth it?" What's your best advice for them?
• 39:22
  My best advice is find your community.
• 39:24
  You will learn so much.
• 39:26
  You will learn about craft, but you will learn about all the other things you need to know about just being a writer, um, no matter what path you're taking.
• 39:35
  You're gonna learn from your peers, you're gonna get support from your peers, and you're gonna give them support, and sometimes that feels almost just as good to, to give somebody else that thumbs up and just, oh, your book is in your hand.
• 39:47
  That's amazing.
• 39:49
  Find your community.
• 39:50
  It can be online, but try to find some in real life too.
• 39:54
  Like, make those connections.
• 39:56
  There are writing groups around you.
• 39:57
  If there aren't, start one.
• 39:59
  If there's a writing guild in your province or your state or wherever you are, find that.
• 40:04
  Or e- heck, just have a reading group and get together.
• 40:08
  But find your community.
• 40:09
  It's your absolute, your best support, your best learning tool.
• 40:13
  And now you can see, dear listeners, why I had Monica on the show today.
• 40:17
  Just such positive, uplifting words.
• 40:19
  I know that you're gonna help and pay it forward for all the writers that helped you, and, uh, we appreciate you in this community so much.
• 40:25
  Awesome.
• 40:26
  Thank you.
• 40:26
  Thanks for being here today.
• 40:27
  No, thank you so much.
• 40:28
  It was fun.
• 40:29
  Thank you.
• 40:36
  Thanks for tuning in to the Show, Don't Tell writing podcast with me, Suzy Vadori.
• 40:40
  It is my absolute honor to bring you the straight goods for that book you're writing or the book that you're planning to write.
• 40:47
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• 40:51
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• 41:00
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• 41:02
  Also, visit Suzyvadori.com/newsletter to hop on my weekly inspired writing newsletter list, where you'll stay inspired and be the first to know about all the upcoming training events and writing courses that happen in my community.
• 41:17
  Want my eyes on your writing?
• 41:18
  Submit a page of your current draft for a chance to come on the podcast at the link in the show notes.
• 41:24
  I'd love to chat with you about your writing in my always positive, incredibly supportive way so that you can make great strides towards your writing goals.
• 41:33
  I'm here to cheer you on.
• 41:35
  Remember, that book you're writing is gonna open doors that you haven't even thought of yet, and I can't wait to help you make that it the absolute best it can be.
• 41:45
  See you again right here next week