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Kel Haney on The Power of Curiosity in Fundraising | Nonprofit411 Podcast · Nonprofit411 Podcast

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Hello and welcome to Nonprofit411, where we dive into resources and strategies that help nonprofits not just survive, but truly thrive.
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I'm Sarah Barton, your host and fundraising advocate.
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Each episode we bring you inspiring conversations with experts in fundraising, sustainability, and best practices to equip you with the tools and confidence you need to make a real impact.
Today's episode of Nonprofit411 is sponsored by GiveSuite, and I'm really excited to share about them.
I work with a lot of small nonprofit teams, and I often see incredible people doing really meaningful work using five or six different systems that don't talk to each other.
They may have donor forums on one platform, an email platform, spreadsheetsto track donations.
They often don't have tech support to call when something breaks, and it's really hard.
That's why I'm so excited about Give Suite.
I use a similar version to run my own work, and their nonprofit version really pulls everything together.
Fundraising, marketing, supporter, communications, automations, giving pages all in one place.
If your team is ready to invest in something that actually makes your job easier, take a look.
I'm an affiliate because I believe in what this platform can do, and I've seen how much of a difference it can make for small teams who just need systems that work.
You'll find the link in the show notes, and now let's get into today's conversation.
Hello and welcome to the Nonprofit411 this week.
We are so excited to have you.
I, I'm excited to welcome my guest, ke Haney from founder and CEO of Ke Haney Consulting.
Welcome.
Thank you Sarah.
I'm so excited to be here with you.
Really appreciate it.
Yes.
I am so excited to have you on.
So you do the five minute fundraising ask.
Correct.
And you encourage people to use the phone? I do.
That's right.
So that's all very intriguing.
But before we start talking about that, let me ask you my favorite question, which is, what is your favorite hobby? I'd say my favorite hobby is probably yoga.
And so, my business is based out of New York City, but my husband and I bought a farmhouse fixer upper on a little island off the coast of Portland, Maine.
So every day we actually do yoga.
And it's a virtual class and it is like actually a class that is happening in Portland, Maine at the same time that we are on our island, and it's at five 30.
Mondays through Thursdays, and it is just like a great moment that I'm like, okay, that is a moment I'm stopping.
Sadly, sometimes I do go back to work, but I'm like, that's the end of meetings for the day at five 30, and my husband and I, he's an actor and a grant writer and strategist, and we do that together and I love.
I love that.
So I would say like, that's probably like my most consistent hobby.
I also really love food and really love travel.
Those are also things I'm really excited about as well.
But I would say like yoga is part of almost every day for me.
Well, that's awesome.
So I always say that yoga's my spirit exercise, but it isn't something that I consistently get in uhhuh.
I, I've been more consistently getting in exercise Good, but not always yoga.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It helps me.
You come out of yoga, it's such a different state of exercise.
You come outta yoga, feeling good and relaxed.
Yeah.
You know, when I come out of regular exercise, sometimes I feel like spent and kind of tired.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And there are like all sorts of different kind of yogas that can make you feel all sorts of ways.
But yeah, I, I love a, I love a yoga high and you'll get a kick out of this.
I actually talk about yoga.
A lot in my coaching of clients and the idea that I want them to be talking to their community members to find a good stretch versus a bad stretch.
So the idea is like, in yoga, it's like, oh, this feels different than it felt yesterday or last week.
And the idea is to breathe into discomfort and like, not to injure yourself.
And so I really wanna encourage people to like.
Breathe into potentially challenging conversations or challenging conversations in that moment and not like push themselves or the community member to that place of injury, but also like we wanna find the good stretch place.
And so that good stretch might be just staying on the call.
That good stretch might be agreeing to volunteer.
That good stretch may be a $15,000 gift.
You know that good stretch means different things to us in different moments.
I like, I like, I like thinking about it like that.
That's really good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, thank you for that.
And I couldn't help myself.
I know we're on this pot in the, we, you know, we're talking about fundraising anyway, I was like, and here's something that I always, that really inspires me in yoga.
That inspires my work too.
Yeah.
I do really love that because, and you never know what a good stretch is for someone.
No.
For someone else, right? Yeah.
You have to kind of explore and be curious.
Yes, exactly.
And curiosity is what drives me.
I'm always like, be curious.
Just, just wonder, oh my gosh, Sarah.
Like that's music to my ears.
I like to say, as far as these phone calls concerned, instead of a, b, c, equaling always be closing.
You know, this like icky, kind of like telemarketing, hard sale boiler room.
Glen Gary, Glen Ross.
Coffee is for closers instead.
Always be curious.
Mm-hmm.
So if you're always leading with curiosity, like I think that is the best way to build trust, build relationship, encourage vulnerability in ourselves and in others.
And it's fun.
And it's fun.
Yes.
Totally, totally, totally.
Yeah, I love that.
All right, Cal, can you introduce yourself to the audience and let them know just a little bit more about you? Absolutely.
So I'm Kel Haney.
I've got my own consulting firm, Cal Haney Consulting, and what I do is I coach and train not-for-profits to build and maintain their mid-level donor base, predominantly through drum roll, five minute phone calls.
Yes.
So it's a very specific methodology for a very specific segmentation of your community.
So I am not a phone caller.
Mm-hmm.
Or traditionally haven't been a phone caller.
Okay.
I won't say that.
I'm not anymore.
I love that.
Yeah.
In my, so in my family of origin mm-hmm.
Like we only used the phone for very specific purposes, and it was literally that you needed to communicate something.
It was not to chitchat.
It was not to talk.
So I am interesting, struggling.
Interesting, interesting.
You know, I've struggled with that background.
What I've learned is that I actually don't mind having phone calls.
Mm-hmm.
I never mind if somebody calls me, they can call me every single time.
Interesting.
Never mind that.
Interesting.
Okay.
Okay.
My, but if I have anxiety, it is very difficult for me to dial the phone.
That makes sense.
That makes complete sense.
And I also like, I mean, answer this as much as you want to, but I'm really curious about what you're saying about how the phone was used.
And you said it was like for specific moments and it was like truly to like share information.
Mm-hmm.
I'm assuming maybe those weren't always fun moments.
Or maybe sometimes they were I, or boring.
They were just really brief.
They literally brief, I mean, you know.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I grew up in a rural community.
Okay.
And my grandparents lived above us and we had a grocery store.
So like, okay, you might call for a ride.
You Yeah.
Might call if you you know, wanted to know where a person was.
Mm-hmm.
But literally, I, I remember calling, I could probably count on my hands the number of times that.
I called friends just to talk and like every single time I did it, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm, I'm, am I allowed to do this? What, you know? Well, and that's just totally the opposite of me because I lived on the phone as a kid.
So like to the point that my dad.
Would in state that we had a quiet hour from seven to eight every day, or maybe, yeah, I think it was seven to eight was quiet time, and so I had to do my homework during that time.
If I was finished my homework, I had to read a book or something, like I had to be just like, it was quiet time.
It was after dinner.
Dinner was at six, and then seven to eight was quiet time, and my dad would offer to be my assistant and answer all of my calls.
During that time.
And so that was also like good parenting, like fun tactic to be like, okay, well you know, you're gonna go make your phone call, you're gonna go do your work and I will like take all of your messages.
He probably, I mean this was the nineties, he probably called himself my secretary or something, but like, it was fun.
Yeah.
And I loved it and was like, yes, someone to like, you know, support me and my endeavors.
I love it.
So I love to be on, like, that was something that felt really good and really natural for me.
So I'm really aware.
That, that is really natural for me.
And so what I've spent my time doing is reverse engineering, how to make that more accessible to others who maybe don't feel as comfortable on these calls.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So I told you that.
I'm like, I'm, I'm becoming reformed.
Yes.
I have a friend who primarily only prefers to talk on the phone.
Okay.
He hates texting and so like.
I talked to him.
I, and so I've been practicing that for a long time.
But then I have tried to be more intentional about reaching out to family members by phone because I know I need to do it more in my work.
You know, and so like practicing it, it's funny, I called my aunt the other day.
I didn't leave a message and she called me back.
She's like, you can't do that.
You can't call and not leave a message.
She's like, I didn't know if it was important or not.
And I live with my parents.
So, you know, so yeah.
So she's having all sorts of thoughts about what that could mean.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So leaving a message is important.
Leaving a message is important.
So, I recommend, firstly, like I'll just say, I don't recommend that your, that any organization is just throwing spaghetti at the wall when it comes to making phone calls.
It takes too much time and energy and resources to make these calls.
So that's why, and we can get into it if you want, but specifically why I talk about mid-level and specifically using these phone calls to connect with your mid-level.
So that's people who.
You're not gonna have the time, energy, resources to cultivate the way you do major gifts.
And frankly, you're not like, you wanna set yourself up for success, your internal team up for success.
And getting these people who are making the mid-level gifts to do that is not setting up their expectations.
And, and it's not setting up your team for what they actually have the bandwidth to do.
But at the same time, mid-level needs something else than like even the most curated, like the best like email.
Automated correspondence, like that's great.
And that's a great way to capture people as smaller gifts, and I call them grassroots gifts and or, and monthly giving, but mid-level needs something different, which is where that five minute phone call comes into, into play.
So when I'm thinking about what you were just saying about your, your aunt and like that idea of she's like, don't leave a voicemail.
I recommend leaving voicemails because these are people that in theory already have a connection to your organization.
So whether that is they've already made a donation or they've attended an event like that, I'd recommend that there's always some very specific connective tissue to explain why you're calling.
So if it's like out of nowhere, then like, no, you probably shouldn't call them.
And unless you have a whole outbound fundraising team of other people, like the people that you internally are calling should always get voicemails.
And the beautiful thing about it is like now our phones do that transcription thing.
It's amazing.
When that started happening last year, I was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing.
So I actually recommend you leave a lengthy voicemail.
And I think the thing to think about voicemails is they should feel akin to like a handwritten letter.
We all know that takes time and energy and resources to write a handwritten note, even if it's on, you know, just the general appeal letter.
But that's what it feels like with a voicemail.
And so they might not listen, but maybe they'll look at the transcription.
And I also recommend following up with an email, like say, I'll put this all in an email as well.
So I have like specific, really specific thoughts when it comes to voicemails.
And I've seen, I.
Amazing things happen.
So, so that's really interesting.
I actually have a formula for my voicemails that I learned years ago as a professional.
Like it was in a professional class and it was like, you know, when you, but it was to get them to call you back.
So it's not, it it interesting, not framed here, but I really like scripting.
Mm-hmm.
So for me, I think scripting is so important.
I actually recommend scripting.
I was director of HR for three years and what I found was.
If you script it and you provide them a script, they will hit the high marks, right? Mm-hmm.
You hit your high marks better than if you don't have anything to work with.
Totally.
And so I'm all about formulas and being able to make it really predictable and especially.
As a person who has had some anxiety around phones, it's really, really important for me.
So that that just takes off a level of stress.
Like you're just like, okay, I can do this 'cause I know what I'm going to do.
Yeah.
Yeah, I would hear that.
I mean, I'll say, I mean, some of this gets a little into semantics.
I tend to say, like if people follow me on LinkedIn and stuff, they'll see this.
But I like write and part of it is, I have a background, I was a theater director for 20 years, so.
You can take the gal out of theater, but not theater out of the gal.
But I tend to say like, I feel like scripts, quote unquote, like actual scripts are for actors as opposed to fundraisers.
But that being said.
I don't necessarily think, I think what you are saying and what you're craving is having some foundational support and having direction on the call.
You know? And so like my, so, and there's a lot of different ways to do this.
So like I train these four tent poles, like my five minute fundraising ask, 'cause like, here's.
Four different moments that you're going to reach on this call.
And basically that comes outta me being inspired to think about the conversation as a tent, like the kind that you might have a graduation party under, or that you might have a, a reunion under, or in my case, a more di i wedding than you expected on an island on the coast of Portland, Maine.
So I like to think about it as a tent.
So what holds up the tent are these four tent poles.
So like.
The idea that you've got some guidance, because the thing is, is that if you really think script like a very like strict script as you know from doing this now, you wanna also make room for actual conversation.
Yes, yes.
To happen.
So similar to like, you know, to us talking and you were so great and sent me all these amazing, thoughtful questions to talk about and then pre-recording you and I.
We're speaking and you're like, I like to just have it as a conversation.
And I was like, amazing.
I was like, that sounds great, but we have all this other prep work.
Like we've got that both of us, so we've got some groundwork of where we go.
So sometimes I actually, there are two places in the column that I actually do really recommend that you have, and I don't, I don't call it scripting, I call it messaging.
Frankly it's the same thing.
Yeah.
That, that seems, that seems better.
That actually seems better To, more relatable to what? I think I was an improv actor in college.
Oh, amazing.
So I did improv, improv theater, and you know, like.
You know, where and what you're supposed to be aiming at.
Mm-hmm.
But you don't have the exact script.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I definitely think I am talking about more similar to what you're talking about kind of a, an idea of where we're going here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And don't get me wrong, sometimes when people are, I will never write them a script.
Like I will say, and I've now gotten to the point that I've got some slides that are like, here's some suggested messaging.
That almost works like Mad Libs, like where you mm-hmm.
You know, enter your specific thoughts here.
But that idea is to specifically get yourself through the first 15 seconds of the call, which is the first tent pole, because we all make split second decisions.
I'm very inspired by Malcolm Gladwell and Blink, and the idea that you need to, if you're gonna call your community members, you need to like immediately establish.
Who you are, what your title is, even at the organization and like what their connection is to you because they may not remember and why you're calling right now, like all in the first 15 seconds so that that other person doesn't just hang up the phone on you.
'cause they don't owe us anything.
They don't know we're calling they, we have all had terrible experiences with telemarketers, with scammers.
With just it being an AI robot that's calling us.
Mm-hmm.
And so you wanna be like, no.
And I, and I think some of the, sometimes it's hard for folks in the not-for-profit sector to like center themselves for a moment and to say, no, that means a lot.
You know, like for you to say, I'm the executive director, or I'm the director of development, or I'm even the development associate, whatever that title is, that means a lot to the other person that they realize that they're talking to somebody.
Who works directly for this organization as opposed to those other things I just said.
So that's one moment that I do recommend some specific messaging.
And the other is 10 pole number three, which is the actual ask, and we don't have to get into it now, but 10 pole number two is what I call the main event, and that's calling the community member further into your organization.
So you'll notice that the ASK is not the main event.
Of this call the community building, the, like shifting away from a transactional encounter to relationship building opportunity.
Like that you're building a relationship and if in that moment they're also feeling like it's a quote unquote good stretch to give, great, but it, it's not about that.
And people feel the difference of when they're actually being marketed to and to like have a.
Pushy ask as opposed to somebody who is really being genuine with them.
And it's like, yeah, I mean, we're not-for-profit.
Guess what? We could use your donation.
Here's specifically why that's helpful to us right now.
But it's okay if not, like I just want both people to hang up the phone and feel better than they did when they were on the phone.
Like, that's the whole idea.
And I'd like the community member to know more about that organization and have a more like.
Not just educated, but positive outlook on them than they did before they got on the call, and that they're gonna be more likely to open the next email or to like, you know, connect over social or go to the next event, or frankly, pick up the phone the next time your org calls because they're like, oh, that was like pleasant.
I had this amazing conversation.
It was so out of the blue and it was amazing.
I want them to be talking about it.
At dinner with whomever they're at.
Yes.
They're like, I have the most surprising and like delightful conversation with somebody from organization A, b, C today.
Who would've thought like, that's, that's what I'm hoping is that it's got that ripple effect.
I.
So that's actually the experience that I consistently have when I make phone calls is that I'm like, oh, that was so nice.
It was so much better than I, and Nice.
And you mentioned a moment so that those, that first 15 second mm-hmm.
Moment.
Mm-hmm.
That actually for me is the moment of the greatest anxiety.
And it is, of course.
It's it is always.
That's the, that's the whole hesitation to making the phone call.
Yeah.
I never have a problem once I hear their voice and they're like, yes.
Oh, hi.
Right.
Yeah.
Because I, I like to talk.
Yeah, absolutely.
But that moment is really, really so important and it's so helpful to have kind of, you know, that framework.
And I do think, you know, it, it is always shocking to me.
So I've actually been a fundraising for 25 years.
Amazing.
And you know, we've.
I, when I started in 2000, it was a different world.
We didn't do email.
I know.
And I was also at a university.
Oh yeah.
And so we had, so we did phone, like we had the phone call.
You know, we would do phone a hon type Yeah.
Calling You had some kind of call center thing or something.
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
With the wired.
Phones.
Oh yeah, that's how I started too.
I started in 2005 and that's how I started as well.
So yeah.
Yeah.
So around that same time, we, we had them and we did it for admissions too.
I ended up being director of advancement after I was there for about eight years.
Mm-hmm.
So the phones were really key now, and what I have learned over time is it is amazing what your donors remember.
And those phone calls, yes, they remember.
So we used students a lot.
They would remember the students' names.
Of course.
They would ask, are they still a student? Or they would talk about their major, you know, and it's amazing Those phone, phone calls are truly, truly just a unique touch because, and now in our digital world.
Any real touch, like a true touch? Yes.
Either in person or by phone.
Yes.
Is so unique.
Totally.
Totally.
And you're getting to the kernel of like, my why for all of this is truly this idea of connecting people to other people.
Mm-hmm.
Like having that genuine human connection.
And so I look at it as like a micro connection and especially as we have less and less of that, so many of us are working from home or working hybrid, or you go into the coffee shop and it's like you've already pre-ordered and it just, it's just there for you.
You don't even interact with someone at the coffee shop or at a grocery store.
You know, like your family, you know, it's just so crazy to just see how that's changed.
If it's just like contactless connection and it's like that's what we crave and as humans is connectivity and connecting to each other.
And so I'm like, how amazing is this? And so what I recommend is that the only people.
Who make fundraising calls are people who are passionate about the organization they're calling for.
So, I know it sounds obvious, but come on, like the idea is that what you have in common with that community member that you're calling, and you'll notice, I, I specifically aren't, I'm not like saying the mid-level donor that you're calling, you know, it's like I'm always saying like, let's see them each as individuals.
Whenever I'm coaching someone and they're like, oh, I talked to, and they've got some kind of like crazy acronym for like the lap donor at the particular segment.
I was like, okay, great, great, great.
Now what's their name? Okay.
And now when was their last gift? When was their first gift? What? What do we see? Tell me more about what you see in like, and I know some of you might not have a tremendous amount of information in your CRMs lately, but yet at this point.
But this is, this is really crucial, is that we're.
Gathering as much information as possible and that you think you're gonna remember things on the call, but you won't.
And so then whether it's you or whomever is working after you, to see all of that information about that call is really important.
But it's just amazing.
It's just really amazing to be able to say like, why not have two people who are passionate about the same organization connecting over that in this moment? Whether or not it leads to a donation today or not, it, like I've said, is beside the point.
Yeah.
And what I see is the money always follows, like whether it's on that call or not the money always follows.
So it's exciting.
Yeah.
That is exciting.
You said something there about the CRM and I really love that you mentioned it because, yeah.
So I am really, really passionate about sustainability of organizations.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the things that I've seen too frequently is that are historical.
Information about our donors and about our organization are not recorded anywhere.
Yes, yes, yes.
Yeah.
And I always tell this story, oh, sorry.
No, no, you go ahead, please.
I came into an organization that had 50,000 donor or 50,000 people on their donation list, but not 50,000 donors.
And.
I, there were a lot of seasoned fundraisers.
They knew the list really well.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And I had no idea.
Yeah.
And I'm supposed to fundraise from this list too.
Yeah.
And I know nothing about them.
If I couldn't sit down with one of them and say, okay, tell me a little bit about this person.
Yes.
It's like starting.
From scratch.
Exactly.
Every single time.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I've seen, I mean, I've definitely, every once in a while I come across someone who has some related versions to adding things to the CRM because they think, oh, this person told me this in confidence or whatnot, and I'm like.
I told you what, like what their dog's name is like that, their granddaughter's in ballet.
Like, I'm kind of like, I don't, I don't quite understand like, I mean, again, obviously if it's something sensitive and it's like it's a personal issue or something, I get that.
But to still be able, there's something you can say in the CRM that then explains the situation in a broader sense to the next person who's gonna make this call.
Because you just.
A, I also wonder what they were missing, Sarah.
Like that's the other thing.
It's like while you were in that culture of, oh, we all just have all these people in our heads, but mm-hmm.
How much are we really remembering? And to your point of the idea that the community remember, remembers all those details about the person who called, we wanna make sure that we're giving that right back to them.
So I think being in a habit that.
That information, like you think you're gonna remember things you won't, that you are really writing into the CRM or even if you're not to the CRM place.
And it is like, you know, on a spreadsheet for somebody else to integrate at some point, whatever.
But just getting that information out is important.
While we're talking about CRM, the other amazing thing about the phone calls is you can use it as a moment for CRM cleanup.
If someone is saying, oh, I'm not actually re receiving your emails, I can say, oh, well I've got sarahBarton@gmail.com.
Is that the best email? Oh no, I don't use that.
I use this.
Okay, great.
How valuable is that? We have the direct and then, and then you find out things.
If we find out someone hasn't been donating in a while and maybe they admit over the phone, well Kel, your organization constantly misspells my partner's name.
Oh my gosh, Sarah, I'm so sorry to hear that.
Here's how I have it spelled.
Like how, how actually is your partner's name spelled? Thank you so much for telling me like that's awful.
Like we didn't know, so thank you.
We did not know we were making that mistake.
So it really is a great moment to just make sure that you've got accurate data on your community members in a larger sense.
Yes.
Did you hear me? So, no, I it, oh, I said, do you recommend calling with the CRM up in front of you? A hundred percent.
So what people fall into a habit of is they like, want to have it all memorized and also like it makes sense, they're nervous, like you said, their anxiety is kicking in.
So they're like spending five minutes on the CRM before they get on the call.
And I say, no, like, you know your CRM, you know where to look for the information.
Take 30 seconds to a minute.
Total, you know exactly where to look.
And then the beauty is that they can't see you.
We all know how to multitask.
So if you need to be double checking in that moment and like looking up other things in the CRM, don't spend more than a minute on prep work for each of these calls.
Yeah, that, that's a, that's something people fall into a lot.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
I, so I worked in community health for the last eight years.
Okay.
And well it actually, I've been doing this I guess for more than a couple of years, but yay.
I had worked in community health for eight years.
Yeah.
And it's kind of the idea of that like, when the doctor comes in, they have some idea.
Right.
And so that's, when I think of the CRM, that's what I think of.
Like, you want your doctor, just like, you want the people who are receiving your money.
Yes.
To have some idea who you are.
Yes, exactly.
And I'm actually very passionate about the intersection of hospitality with our, with our sector and hospitality.
Doesn't have to mean that the donor is always right, but it is about how great it feels to make other people feel good.
And we all wanna be seen and heard and remembered.
So to be able to hop on that call, and to your point about that first 15 seconds.
My wreck, Sarah, is that you front load it and this is what's hard because I'm gonna, I recommend with that first 15 seconds, you're doing something you would never do on per in person.
But what I recommend is when they pick up, as opposed to you picking up and me saying, hi, am I speaking with Sarah? Hi Sarah.
My name's Kel.
I'm calling from organization X, Y, Z.
How are you today? Is this an okay time to talk? There's a lot of space.
We all move very fast in this world.
That gave you a ton of time to like come up with who this person is, why they're bothering you.
Are they a scammer? Like to keep all of your.
Armor up as opposed to if you picked up the phone and you said Hello.
And I said, hi Sarah.
My name is Kel.
I'm the executive director of organization X, y, Z.
You are so amazing.
Thank you.
You did a gift of $500 with us back in December.
We so appreciate that.
We're gearing up right now for our spring fundraiser and we've got an in-person event, but like, first and foremost, I just wanted to see like, are you looking at the emails? Do we even know that we've got this event happening on April? 15th.
Is that on your radar? So I said a lot.
15 seconds.
So that is where you might wanna like message out that.
But in that time, I would say assume you're talking to the person you're spo you think you're talking to.
If you called Robin and you were supposed to speak with Chris, I'm telling you Chris Robin will go ahead and immediately correct you and you can say, I'm so sorry to be presumptuous, like.
Are you also, do you donate together to our organization or you know, is that more Chris's thing? Like that hardly ever happens.
So I'd say use their first name, like go with a familiarity as if this is someone you were meeting at a dinner party and you had mutual friends, so you don't have like.
They're not your best friend.
They're not your sibling or your grandmother or your child or something, but they're, they're not your family.
They're not your close friends, but they are like one degree removed is how I recommend, and we talk to those people with an informality and a warmth, and so I really recommend that.
'cause again, if you called me and said, hi, Ms.
Haney, no one calls me Ms.
Haney, like, you got it down.
That's right.
You're, you're done.
You know, or even worse, you use my husband's last name, GRU, which isn't my last name.
If you called me and said, Mrs.
Gru, I would be like, where's Kate? Where's my mother-in-law? Like, that's not, that's not my name.
No one calls me that.
So you may think you're being.
Formal and respectful, but what you're really doing, especially in 2025, is like putting a barrier between you and the community member immediately.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if they are someone who really prefers to have some type of title upfront, you're gonna know that that will be in the CRM 100%.
And if it's not on the CRM already, they will tell you in that moment.
That's right.
And, and, and that it doesn't happen that often, but if it does happen, which I would say is like truly like.
I've had couple doctors.
They're the only ones, couple doctors.
Yeah.
And I'm like, okay, like that you worked really hard for that degree and that is how you identify and like.
Dr.
Sal, I am so sorry.
Like, you know, I, we will, I will make sure most people would rather first name.
I'm so glad to know that about you.
And then it's like a thank you.
It's like you shared it as a thank you, and then we know, and then every time we call Dr.
Sal, that's, we know it, so it's true.
Yeah.
You got it.
They always, they'll, they'll correct you.
They'll tell you, you'll, they'll correct you every time.
I think that, I think that's like a bigger point to take, and maybe I'll have to write about that at some point, but I like that idea.
I think about this a lot.
Like we don't have to, you can in our, your mind decide all these things and all these different scenarios, they will tell you.
So like I have, you can look at it on my website if you want, but I have eight phrases not to use in fundraising.
And one is like, is this a good time to talk? Like they will tell you if it's not.
Or I also even recommend never saying, do you have any questions? Because if people have questions, they will ask you.
And that's a moment that you wanna always present yourself as the host of the call.
So you can say, what's your initial thought on this? Like, how are you, like, what are you absorbing so far? Like there's a ways to like gauge their.
Engagement without being like, do you have any questions? Which I just think sounds so customer servicey and, yeah.
Cold.
And we don't ever wanna read cold.
Like that's not the point of these calls.
Yes, I'd love that.
Well, we are getting towards our time.
Mm-hmm.
So, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Absolutely.
So LinkedIn is definitely my networking happy place.
I think Sarah, that's how you and I connected originally, so feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn if you listen, if you've got thoughts, questions, pulses.
Also, if you decide you wanna get on the phones, I would love to hear what happens when you're on the phone.
So reach out to me.
You can also find me at my website.
Is my name, kel haney.com.
I've got that eight phrases not to use in fundraising.
I also have a guide of specific tips for mid-level.
And I also have a link if you wanna just grab 30 minutes on my calendar just to talk.
I'd love to hear what's going on with your orgs and see how we can potentially collaborate.
That's awesome.
Okay, and then my last question for every guest is, what is one thing you want every nonprofit to know? I want every nonprofit to know that it is vulnerable.
To ask for money, and it is vulnerable to work in not-for-profits, period.
And the best thing we can do is be kind and gentle, not just with our, our donors, not just with our colleagues, but like first and foremost, like start with ourselves.
Like to really figure out what do you need to do to be kind to yourself today? Because now more than ever, it's, it's really challenging and really hard.
So like, what's the extra act of kindness you can offer yourself today? Yes, yes, yes, yes.
I love that.
I love that.
Thank you so much for being on this show.
It's my pleasure.
Totally my pleasure, Sarah.
Thank you.
It was so much fun.
And to our listeners, I hope you enjoyed our conversation and I look forward to talking to you again next week.
That's a wrap for today's episode of Nonprofit411.
I hope our discussion with nonprofit professionals and experts gave you actionable ideas to take your fundraising efforts to the next level.
At Nonprofit411, I partner with leaders like you to develop strategies and guide you through implementation.
Visit www.nonprofit411.org
to learn more, and let's take the first step together.
See you next time.
Bye.