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THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR with New ROBERT REDFORD Tribute Intro · The Cine-Files

0:07
[SPEAKER_10]: Hello and welcome to another episode in our continuing series, honoring the great Robert Redford, who we lost a few days ago.
0:14
[SPEAKER_10]: My name is Steve Morris, I'm a filmmaker and director and instructor in Los Angeles, California.
0:18
[SPEAKER_09]: Hello, if one of my name is John Roca, I'm a Redford producer and voice-over artist here in San Diego, California.
0:22
[SPEAKER_10]: And we did three days of the condor, fairly early in the run of the cinephiles with our very special guests, Steven B. Jones.
0:30
[SPEAKER_10]: But when I think the whole thing started when he sent me, we talked to him about coming on the show, and he sent me a list of 130 movies.
0:40
[SPEAKER_10]: That he would be interested in doing it.
0:42
[SPEAKER_10]: And I went, hey, maybe we could,
0:44
[SPEAKER_10]: pair this down a bit, and we paired it down to Sidney Pollock and Robert Redford.
0:48
[SPEAKER_10]: And then I think in preparation, Steve watched every single Sidney Pollock movie, to make sure that he was ready to come on the cinephiles.
0:56
[SPEAKER_09]: That's an amazing, I don't think any guest has ever done that.
0:59
[SPEAKER_09]: No, and that's an amazing, and the kind of respect he had for our show.
1:03
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, we were still kind of starting out.
1:05
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, I think it forced us to up our game.
1:08
[SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
1:08
[SPEAKER_10]: I mean, like, you know, this was when we were kind of starting to expand into the longer format.
1:13
[SPEAKER_10]: And three days of the condor was a perfect film for that because it is such a 70s movie with so much ambiguity and so much stress and man, Robert Redford plays a fascinating character in it.
1:25
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think this is an amazing performance.
1:28
[SPEAKER_09]: Because I think this isn't this right after the sting.
1:31
[SPEAKER_09]: So this is Robert like going out on his own right now.
1:34
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't have Paul Newman to carry the film.
1:36
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, they're not going fade down away.
1:37
[SPEAKER_09]: He's an amazing actress and every bed is powerful as Paul in her own way.
1:42
[SPEAKER_09]: But this is very much a Robert Redford movie.
1:44
[SPEAKER_09]: And he is.
1:45
[SPEAKER_09]: the guy who has all this stuff happened to him.
1:47
[SPEAKER_09]: He's the guy that has to troubleshoot situations, figure things out, roll with the punches, try to expose what's going on here at the risk of his own life, and he's been thrust into this situation without his like knowledge or know how.
2:02
[SPEAKER_09]: And he has to put it all together, he has to cross some lines.
2:06
[SPEAKER_09]: I think it's a very brave performance and a very brave film, because a lot of people would want to watch a film like this.
2:12
[SPEAKER_09]: Like, oh, the protagonist must always do everything right and risk.
2:16
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, doing risking his life to do the right thing.
2:19
[SPEAKER_09]: But there are times in this film, and as we've spoken about, and other roles, a Robert Redford has done, where he crosses some lines.
2:26
[SPEAKER_09]: He gets physical with Faye, he gets like yeah.
2:29
[SPEAKER_09]: He uses her in a way, because he's, because there's a bigger picture thing here, but then he also also puts himself in harm's way to try to figure this stuff out and expose the things that are going on here and survive.
2:43
[SPEAKER_09]: And I think there's something really powerful in the performance here from him.
2:47
[SPEAKER_09]: It is a no holds bar thing.
2:49
[SPEAKER_09]: And once again, it is what makes Robert so great.
2:52
[SPEAKER_09]: He can play these characters that you make you question his actions when he's doing it.
2:56
[SPEAKER_09]: And it can be a bit unsavory.
2:58
[SPEAKER_09]: But in the end, you're still connected with this guy because he's kind of putting the mirror up to yourself, which is, what would you do in this kind of a situation?
3:07
[SPEAKER_09]: And yes, we'd like to believe we do everything right, but the truth is, I think a majority of people would do some of the exact same things that his character does in this movie.
3:16
[SPEAKER_09]: And he is conflicted by doing them, but he's also driven to achieve this result at the end.
3:23
[SPEAKER_09]: And I think it's a powerful performance to watch him throughout this whole movie.
3:27
[SPEAKER_10]: You know, everyone always talks about and they should talk about it because it's remarkable is that Robert Redford was a very, very, very, very, very good looking guy.
3:36
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes, he is as mung the most beautiful man ever to act on the silver screen in Hollywood.
3:40
[SPEAKER_10]: And I think that sort of...
3:43
[SPEAKER_10]: hides the fact that camouflage is the fact that what's actually the greatest thing about him in my opinion is his intelligence.
3:50
[SPEAKER_10]: Is that there is, oh, you can always see the wheels turning with Robert Redford and three days of the condor might be the ultimate movie in this because he is playing a super smart guy.
4:01
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
4:01
[SPEAKER_10]: And you can see him trying to process his way through this impossible problem.
4:06
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, which is I've been betrayed.
4:09
[SPEAKER_10]: I don't know who to trust.
4:11
[SPEAKER_10]: People are coming kill me.
4:12
[SPEAKER_10]: I must survive and you're seeing him work through it.
4:14
[SPEAKER_10]: And part of him working through that problem is choosing to do some really, as you said, unsavory things.
4:21
[SPEAKER_10]: And we're not because this is a 70s movie.
4:23
[SPEAKER_10]: We're not given a good place to sit.
4:25
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you don't get to go.
4:27
[SPEAKER_10]: I feel good or I feel you understand why he's doing what he's doing.
4:30
[SPEAKER_10]: You don't like why he's doing what he's doing.
4:32
[SPEAKER_10]: And that is what's happening.
4:36
[SPEAKER_09]: And it mirrors what was going on in our society, right?
4:39
[SPEAKER_09]: Is Watergate and all these controversies from the Kennedy assassination on, all these questions of questioning of our government, all these things that are happening.
4:49
[SPEAKER_09]: It's really captured perfectly in three days of the condor.
4:52
[SPEAKER_09]: And you can watch this now in 2025 and feel that it's a very topical movie that is reflective of what's going on in our world.
5:00
[SPEAKER_09]: That's kind of the shame of a movie like this is that it will always be applicable.
5:05
[SPEAKER_09]: because we always suspect that things are going on behind the scenes, that we're not privy to, and there are certain people who are privy to who are making this happen.
5:15
[SPEAKER_09]: And I think what he does here, though, is he still maintains the hero status throughout, because he is the underdog.
5:22
[SPEAKER_09]: It's a very well crafted film, no matter what on savory things he does, he's the underdog trying to survive this situation, pairing him with a ruthless assassin, like Max Boncito's character,
5:34
[SPEAKER_09]: does some of the work to get him across that line to make him sympathetic, but it is the quieter moments aside from the moments that are a bit unsavery that you really connect with this character who initially is a bit like distant because he is a kind of nerdy tech or IT guy working in this office and doing the things that he's doing and all of that.
5:54
[SPEAKER_09]: It's a later that you start to connect with him and what is going on with him and what the internal journey is of his character as he's having these conversations with.
6:03
[SPEAKER_09]: And as he is at the conversation with Max Boncitao and others, you kind of see more of the character develop.
6:08
[SPEAKER_09]: And it takes a certain kind of guts to not want the audience to immediately love you from the beginning.
6:14
[SPEAKER_09]: You got to slowly unroll it and trust that the audience will go with you as you unroll these areas of your character.
6:21
[SPEAKER_09]: And he does that throughout the whole movie really well.
6:24
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, and the movie never really gives you a good place to sit.
6:27
[SPEAKER_10]: No, like it just doesn't let you go Because you certainly know that they're bad guys out there, right?
6:33
[SPEAKER_10]: But you don't exactly ever know how high up the bad guys go or if there is anything anyone we can or cannot trust You know, and it's a leaves you in this place and it's funny.
6:43
[SPEAKER_10]: I was thinking like
6:44
[SPEAKER_10]: There are a lot of connections, similarities between the late 60s or early 70s, and the era that we're in today.
6:52
[SPEAKER_10]: But I actually think this kind of really ambiguous movie is in some ways more powerful than going like the government is evil movie or the government or heroes movie.
7:04
[SPEAKER_10]: This is saying, well,
7:07
[SPEAKER_09]: It could be a little bit both, you know, yeah, yeah, I think this in this film and marathon man have a lot of similarities and I know there are other films like the parallax view and other films, the Igre sanction, but like, what's the Odessa files with John Void, but like these two films marathon man in three days of the condo, they take two guys who are completely.
7:31
[SPEAKER_09]: out of their element, and we follow them as they figure this out on the fly and troubleshoot these situations on the fly, and we cheer for them as they try to put this thing together.
7:40
[SPEAKER_09]: But as you said, even by the end, including marathon men, you're not necessarily left in a comfortable place.
7:47
[SPEAKER_09]: No, they survived.
7:48
[SPEAKER_09]: But what they've shown you,
7:50
[SPEAKER_09]: is really unsettling, you know, and you need an actor of Redford's quality or Hoffman's quality to keep you in grossed in it because that's the only way you're going to swallow the message down that the film is trying to show you is caring about the main character and really living and dying by what they're going through throughout the movie.
8:15
[SPEAKER_10]: That's funny.
8:16
[SPEAKER_10]: Speaking of Dustin Hoffman, that's who we're going to be talking about tomorrow because our next day in our series of Robert Redford will be on all the president's men, which is both of them.
8:24
[SPEAKER_10]: But right now, we're actually going to take you back to the very, very scary world of a blown CIA headquarters and a man on the run in three days of the condor.
8:36
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a major.
8:37
[SPEAKER_03]: This is Joe Turner.
8:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, identification?
8:40
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
8:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Identification?
8:42
[SPEAKER_03]: My name is Turner.
8:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I work for you.
8:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, let's identify yourself.
8:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't want to get a designation.
8:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Condor.
8:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Section 9, Department 17.
8:52
[SPEAKER_03]: The section's been hit.
8:53
[SPEAKER_03]: What level?
8:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Level.
8:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Level of damage.
8:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody.
8:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Lap, Janus, Ray, Harold.
8:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Harold was in the company line.
9:03
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I'm in a phone booth.
9:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just a block away.
9:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in the street.
9:06
[SPEAKER_17]: Your in violation of secure communication procedures, Connor.
9:08
[SPEAKER_18]: Listen, you son of a bitch, I'm telling you, I came back with lunch and it was raining in the whole house, was murdered, everybody is dead.
9:22
[SPEAKER_10]: Hello and welcome once again to the cinephiles where each week we enter the world of a great film, we explore its themes, the history, the filmmaking, and the influence it has on us today.
9:30
[SPEAKER_10]: My name is Steve Morris, I'm a filmmaker and directing instructor in Los Angeles, California.
9:34
[SPEAKER_09]: Hello everyone, again, my name is John Rogga, I'm a voiceover artist host of numerous shows and occasionally an actor on camera.
9:42
[SPEAKER_10]: And today we're really, really happy, well, I'm particularly, really happy because I get to welcome one of my oldest friends in the world.
9:48
[SPEAKER_10]: I've known him for 30 years.
9:50
[SPEAKER_10]: We met in high school.
9:52
[SPEAKER_10]: He is an actor, a storyboard artist, a character designer, has worked in animation for 20 years at this point.
9:58
[SPEAKER_10]: I think it's 20 years.
9:59
[SPEAKER_10]: It's 20 years started in comic books.
10:01
[SPEAKER_10]: We'll transfer it over to animation and we talked about the list of shows to mention and it goes on and on and on.
10:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Including Superman, the animated series Batman Beyond, Teen Titans, Justice League Unlimited, King of the Hill, Brave in the Bull, Transformers and there's a whole bunch of other ones but I'm tired of listing your credits.
10:20
[SPEAKER_10]: So I'm really, really happy to welcome two of the cinephiles Steve Jones.
10:24
[SPEAKER_11]: Thank you very much for having me.
10:27
[SPEAKER_09]: Is that your professional name Steve Jones or Steven Jones?
10:29
[SPEAKER_09]: What's your professional name?
10:30
[SPEAKER_11]: I get, you know, this is a trouble.
10:32
[SPEAKER_09]: Like, what do you check say when they come?
10:34
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, well, if you want to find me online, which I'm sure you do, it's Steven B. Jones.
10:39
[SPEAKER_11]: There it is.
10:40
[SPEAKER_11]: And I think that's mostly what I go by, but I think, you know, I've been around long enough, I feel like I've gone by all the different versions.
10:46
[SPEAKER_11]: You can, like, Steven Jones, Steven Jones, Steven Jones.
10:49
[SPEAKER_09]: Maybe one of my SB Jones.
10:51
[SPEAKER_11]: Probably at one point.
10:52
[SPEAKER_11]: There was even, like, a Steve, but, you know, it's gotten weird.
10:54
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, and there, when you have such a boring name, you end up trying to jazz it up.
10:59
[SPEAKER_10]: Look, Steve is not pouring.
11:00
[SPEAKER_10]: No, Steve is not pouring.
11:01
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, Steve is not.
11:01
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, Steve is not pouring.
11:02
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:02
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:03
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:03
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:04
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:04
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:05
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:05
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:06
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:06
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:07
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:07
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:08
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:08
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:11
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:11
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:12
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:13
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:13
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:15
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:16
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:17
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:18
[SPEAKER_10]: Steve is not pouring.
11:22
[SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely, I mean, I think, right, I studied acting and I studied acting in, I have a BA in acting, um, God bless it.
11:30
[SPEAKER_10]: That's what those really valuable degrees.
11:31
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, exactly.
11:33
[SPEAKER_11]: When you're at Starbucks, it's great.
11:35
[SPEAKER_11]: But I think it's a huge, a lot of the animators, the nine old men and different stuff have talked about, like, it's really acting with a pencil or something like that.
11:44
[SPEAKER_11]: So I think,
11:45
[SPEAKER_11]: It's one of those things that at the time I was studying acting, I didn't really see how it was affecting my drawing, but then as all the years have gone on, I think.
11:55
[SPEAKER_11]: There's definitely guys that are way, way better at action than me, within the realm of storyboarding.
12:02
[SPEAKER_11]: You guys that are just like great at staging explosions and karate fights and all that kind of stuff, and I feel like, if I have a strength, I'm always trying to improve not area, but I feel like a place that I feel very strong
12:15
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, just in the moment to moment beat to beat stuff of what are people thinking about, you know, like, and making those transitions cutting back and forth between actors like I feel like, yeah, I start kind of acting when I'm, when I, you know, where I was when I playing the characters, what I'm drawing the characters, well that's exactly it.
12:30
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
12:30
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, and it's funny because one of the things I know that you do all the time when you're drawing is watching movies.
12:36
[SPEAKER_10]: and a great movie for watching performance and for watching action is what we're going to talk about today which was your idea three days of the condor, Cindy Pollock, Robert Redford.
12:45
[SPEAKER_10]: That's one of the best transitions I've ever heard Steve do.
12:48
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm not always very smooth.
12:49
[SPEAKER_09]: Amazing.
12:51
[SPEAKER_09]: He just flipped that bat.
12:52
[SPEAKER_09]: He's just taking it.
12:53
[SPEAKER_10]: The leisurely stole her on the basis now.
12:56
[SPEAKER_10]: I'm a professional podcast there, and by professional, I mean that I don't get paid.
13:01
[SPEAKER_10]: Yep, that's a professional podcast.
13:02
[SPEAKER_10]: And it was funny when we first started talking to you about doing a movie.
13:07
[SPEAKER_10]: The first thing you did was send me a list of 100 plus movies.
13:11
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, sorry about that.
13:14
[SPEAKER_10]: Excellent one.
13:15
[SPEAKER_10]: And then kind of narrowed it down to three days of a condor because it was a while ago.
13:18
[SPEAKER_10]: It seems to me you kind of went down a Sydney Pollock Bormhole.
13:22
[SPEAKER_11]: I did a little bit because I think I have a really unholy love for this movie, I think, on just a million different levels, but it's interesting because I don't think you guys have talked about Pollock yet, and he's one of those interesting directors that, you know, he's not Kubrick, you know what I mean, like he's not, he's not spoken of in reverential tones as like this autor film director, but he has this amazing track record and he's made
13:49
[SPEAKER_11]: Some, you know, some of my favorite films.
13:51
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, Tootsie isn't a credible film.
13:53
[SPEAKER_11]: I think on just like a million different levels and stuff.
13:55
[SPEAKER_11]: And it was so was fun going down the Pollock hormone because I knew a little bit, but I'm like, oh, seven movies with Robert Redford.
14:01
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, that's a real love affair between those two guys.
14:04
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, if you're gonna fall in love with a guy, Robert Redford's so dreaming, yeah.
14:08
[SPEAKER_11]: I gotta say, I mean, I got a little bit of a man crush on Robert Redford and especially in this movie, I think.
14:13
[SPEAKER_10]: None, Jeremiah Johnson.
14:15
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, he looks great Jeremiah Johnson, but he's 39, I think when he makes this movie, so he's not the kid that he was in Sundance, but in Sundance, you know, and, you know, like, man, he got hammered in like Havana.
14:29
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, that was all he would talk about in 1990,
14:32
[SPEAKER_11]: Robert's not looking good anymore, you know, and out of Africa, I realized as I re-wash all these films like that's his last moment out like he looks It's you know, he and Brad Pitt's career haven't been combined a lot and seeing Robert read for it in out of Africa.
14:46
[SPEAKER_11]: It's imagine it's amazing how much he looks like
14:49
[SPEAKER_11]: Brad Pitt and Allied, like, you know, Brad Pitt at 50 and Robert Redford at 50, they're really kind of passing each other on the freeway of their correlation, you know.
14:58
[SPEAKER_09]: I think that it's by game together.
15:00
[SPEAKER_09]: That's right.
15:00
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
15:01
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, and he directed Brad in a river runs through it.
15:05
[SPEAKER_11]: That's right.
15:06
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that's, and that was something else I've, in this talking, looking into these guys, it's amazing to just see all these interesting interconnections, you know.
15:13
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, this is a great point you bring up about Pollock.
15:15
[SPEAKER_09]: There are a number of directors that have done numerous films, but they don't get spoken about, like, Kurosawa or Wells.
15:23
[SPEAKER_09]: And Wells, you can argue, it's done considerably way less films than Pollock has in many films of quality.
15:29
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and well, in the thing, it's like Pollock is one of these guys who's like the working man's director.
15:34
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
15:34
[SPEAKER_10]: is that he's gonna go out he's craft his top right he's gonna go out he's gonna do the job is going to go on to the next film yeah and he doesn't seem to you know kind of like Ron Howard is kind of this kind of guy right I like these guys yeah I think Ron Howard that's a really good
15:49
[SPEAKER_11]: Uh, that's a really good comparison because, you know, I mean, the differences is Ron Howard grew up in Hollywood, you know, but, but I think they both seem to sort of be in love with being Hollywood directors, you know, and, and Paul, it definitely seemed to have this thing where
16:05
[SPEAKER_11]: you know, he he's born in small town, Indiana, you know, he was like, he's like a midwestern kid, you know, and he moved to New York, uh, and he studied the first thing.
16:14
[SPEAKER_11]: He studied with Sandy Meisner in the in the early fifties.
16:17
[SPEAKER_11]: So one of my acting teachers study with Sandy Meisner.
16:19
[SPEAKER_11]: So I mean, like, oh, that's, you know,
16:22
[SPEAKER_11]: and he works in New York and then he already has a knack already because he starts getting to teach at the neighborhood playhouse.
16:28
[SPEAKER_11]: But he's still trying to be an actor, like a lot of us do.
16:32
[SPEAKER_11]: And he gets hired as an acting coach on a John Frankenheimer film with Bert Lancaster.
16:38
[SPEAKER_11]: It's not the Batman of Alcatraz.
16:39
[SPEAKER_11]: It's the one before that.
16:41
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he was coaching about your kids, I think.
16:42
[SPEAKER_11]: Exactly, and then like and so Bert Lancaster like just you got you got something going on with you I think you could be a really terrific director Can you imagine by the way if Bert Lancaster gave me any advice?
16:52
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I would be like, well, yes I have to say you should be a fireman.
16:55
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes, I guess I have to be a fireman now
17:04
[SPEAKER_09]: He's a tough guy that Lancaster.
17:07
[SPEAKER_09]: I read his biography.
17:08
[SPEAKER_09]: He's kind of an asshole.
17:09
[SPEAKER_09]: He's at times like he He wrote amongst up a cliff into the ground.
17:13
[SPEAKER_09]: He definitely seems to have been hearing from here to eternity.
17:15
[SPEAKER_11]: He seems to have rilled himself into becoming an actor.
17:23
[SPEAKER_09]: drive people around them crazy because they're driven.
17:26
[SPEAKER_09]: They think everyone else has to match their drive.
17:28
[SPEAKER_09]: Right.
17:28
[SPEAKER_09]: So that makes sense.
17:29
[SPEAKER_09]: So for him to like grab Pollock up.
17:31
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, you need to be doing this.
17:32
[SPEAKER_09]: Then I'm sure Pollock was like, whatever you say.
17:34
[SPEAKER_09]: Yes, as you're all do it, you know.
17:35
[SPEAKER_11]: And I think he's a big part of he started directing in TV and then I think, you know, Pollock had directed two films before he then did.
17:43
[SPEAKER_11]: Direct Bert Lane Castle.
17:44
[SPEAKER_11]: He directed him in two films and I feel like that's one of the things I definitely discovered is you'll see is that Pollock is constantly working with the same people over and over again like he definitely develops relationships has friendships with people and he keeps using them and he keeps you know keeps coming back and I think I ended up seeing an interview later that he and Bert just never quite found a place to work together again but he was always kind of looking for that spot you know.
18:10
[SPEAKER_11]: The burnt Lancaster films he directed are very odd.
18:12
[SPEAKER_09]: What are those?
18:13
[SPEAKER_11]: So the first one's this movie called The Scalp Hunters.
18:16
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh yeah, it's a big, I think an interesting thing about Pollock is that he starts directing in the 60s, but I feel like he doesn't really find his voice until 69 when the whole paradigm of directing is shifting to what we would call like these 70s films.
18:33
[SPEAKER_11]: And I think you guys already talked about the graduate and stuff and I feel like graduate and Bonnie of Clyde, that's when the shift kind of begins.
18:39
[SPEAKER_11]: And in that pocket is when Pollock finds a sweet spot with that they shoot horses, don't they?
18:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's where it went.
18:45
[SPEAKER_11]: A bunch of people get nominations.
18:47
[SPEAKER_11]: I think that guy gig young one Oscar nomination for that movie.
18:50
[SPEAKER_11]: He works with Jane Fonda there for the first time.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
18:52
[SPEAKER_11]: Pollock does, but so it felt to me like in those 60 movies that Pollock was just kind of trying to learn how to be a Hollywood director.
18:59
[SPEAKER_11]: And so his first one is a Sydney Potty movie, which is a really interesting film.
19:04
[SPEAKER_11]: It's very much like a, like a, not like a courtroom, but it just, it's all on sets.
19:09
[SPEAKER_11]: And it feels very much like a mid-60s, you know.
19:12
[SPEAKER_11]: And then he does his first film with Robert Redford, which is called this property is condemned.
19:17
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like,
19:17
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that's right.
19:18
[SPEAKER_11]: It's an adaptation of Tennessee Williams.
19:21
[SPEAKER_11]: It's Natalie Wood looking to try to break out of her star persona and do like a real acting thing.
19:26
[SPEAKER_11]: And I guess she asked for Redford because she'd work with Redford once before.
19:30
[SPEAKER_11]: And then Redford got Paul at the job because he's like, well, I know Sydney, which I guess we skipped over.
19:34
[SPEAKER_11]: So Sydney and Robert Redford they meet on this movie called War Hunt in 1962.
19:39
[SPEAKER_11]: and they're just actors in it, but they just hit it off and they stay friends.
19:43
[SPEAKER_11]: And so literally when Redford can recommend him for a job three years later, he does.
19:48
[SPEAKER_11]: And then the third movie that Sidney Drex is this movie to scalp hunters.
19:53
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's such a strange mid-60s cinema scope want to be like it feels like all those big westerns of the 50s in the 60s, but it also just doesn't quite feel right.
20:03
[SPEAKER_11]: Like it feels like the time is turning on that.
20:06
[SPEAKER_10]: Well that's the mid-60s era.
20:08
[SPEAKER_10]: But by the time we get to three days of the condor, it's 75.
20:11
[SPEAKER_10]: Ten years later.
20:11
[SPEAKER_10]: Ten years later.
20:12
[SPEAKER_10]: And clearly his hit is rhythm.
20:14
[SPEAKER_10]: Do you remember how you first came to this movie?
20:16
[SPEAKER_11]: It's so funny.
20:16
[SPEAKER_11]: Because you've asked so many people that in this show.
20:19
[SPEAKER_11]: And I'm sure with you guys too, usually there's some sort of great story about when you fall in love with a movie and it has a special place.
20:27
[SPEAKER_11]: I realize the strange thing about this movie is I can't actually remember the first time I saw it.
20:32
[SPEAKER_11]: I was talking to another friend about it and we both realized
20:35
[SPEAKER_11]: I've remember seeing bits and pieces of it on TV in the late 70s and the 80s, but it wasn't until I think it came out on DVD like 20 years ago that I really feel like I fully discovered and embraced it and had been watching it constantly for 20 years, but I don't have that quintessential first like when you see Star Wars, did I see aliens the day that it came out or whatever?
20:56
[SPEAKER_11]: And I think that's maybe it's true of a lot of older movies.
20:58
[SPEAKER_11]: You don't always remember it.
20:59
[SPEAKER_10]: Well sure, they're kind of exist in the ether and maybe you see a bit on TV.
21:03
[SPEAKER_09]: What about you?
21:04
[SPEAKER_09]: Now, same thing kind of what Steve said, I had seen bits and pieces throughout the years, but I've never seen the film until maybe February of this year.
21:13
[SPEAKER_09]: Mate, well, yeah, because every once in a while, we've talked about it on the show.
21:16
[SPEAKER_09]: I will go on this run on TCM where I will go like weeks and see ahead of time and go like, what are these, what are films that I have not seen?
21:23
[SPEAKER_09]: And then I'll set the DBR to record them so that I know, like, I'll be able to watch them when I get to it.
21:28
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, and so that was one of those ones that I kind of had to make myself watch.
21:32
[SPEAKER_09]: You know because those old 70s type of films once you miss that certain time to watch him It's really hard to go back because it times it can be somewhat dated But this was incredibly enjoyable because of the acting because of the structure and everything that happened within it And it challenges you as a viewer so for me it definitely kept my attention throughout the whole film and it was nice to see Redford Who I'd seen play these other kind of parts play something a little more darker and
22:00
[SPEAKER_09]: someone naive, yet also circumspect as the film goes on to see how what he thought was his world is all of a sudden getting turned around and how he has to grow up quickly in order to survive.
22:13
[SPEAKER_11]: Well I think that's particularly why I think it's a really fun redford piece is that I think Rob Redford is a very good actor, but he is
22:21
[SPEAKER_11]: He is definitely a movie star, and a lot of times movie stars are not required to be great actors for one thing, but sometimes trying to be great actors even like messes with their job description, like people are coming to see them, it's like a Tom Hanks, there's a list Tom Cruise, there's a lot of people that we go see, yeah, that's a great point.
22:43
[SPEAKER_11]: And so I think Redford's never won in a ward like Costner, too, never won in a ward for acting.
22:50
[SPEAKER_11]: He didn't get an Oscar until he directed, you know, and then of course he got a director the first time he directed with ordinary people But I think what's fun to me about about three days is that it's him kind of trying to mess with that like he's playing a real geek And I think we're so now we take for granted geek chic so much that we've we're 20 years into it But like in the mid-70s for Robert Refford to play kind of a nerd
23:13
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, it was kind of cool.
23:14
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, and it's a nerd that goes to a pretty dark place.
23:17
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
23:17
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
23:17
[SPEAKER_10]: It's kind of both ends of the spectrum.
23:19
[SPEAKER_10]: For me, it's funny.
23:20
[SPEAKER_10]: So I don't think I ever saw it.
23:23
[SPEAKER_10]: Until you said you first time you saw it was the DVD.
23:25
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, I worked on that DVD and that's the first time I saw it.
23:29
[SPEAKER_10]: And I remember seeing it and going, oh yeah, I've heard of this movie.
23:32
[SPEAKER_10]: I have some maybe I've seen a little tiny piece of it, I don't know, and then being blown away going, oh my god, this is a really, really good movie and watched it probably seven or eight or nine times on that DVD job as we did.
23:44
[SPEAKER_10]: And then I don't think I saw it since.
23:46
[SPEAKER_10]: So that's 20 years later that I just watched it again a few nights ago.
23:51
[SPEAKER_10]: And what was so interesting was, at the beginning, and we're going to talk about all this, all of the sharpness and tightness of its structure, and the beautifulness of its craft, I remember it, I'm like, yeah, this is what I remembered.
24:02
[SPEAKER_10]: I didn't remember how fraught and complicated I was going to feel about what goes on in this movie.
24:09
[SPEAKER_10]: I had forgotten that, and so it delivered on all the stuff I remembered, and then it also provided all these surprises that I didn't expect, because I hadn't seen it a long time.
24:17
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, and this goes in the bin of things like all the president's man, right?
24:21
[SPEAKER_09]: Obviously the parallax view, either sanctioned.
24:23
[SPEAKER_09]: There was all these, the conversation, the conversation, there was all these films that came out around this in the 70s, around this time about really exploring this whole idea of a shadow conspiracy, or a shadow government, or what we see now, called the deep state, what we hear now, and our lexicon now.
24:38
[SPEAKER_09]: So it's fascinating.
24:40
[SPEAKER_09]: And I look forward to films coming out like that now.
24:45
[SPEAKER_09]: everything that's happening in our political climate now because that was obviously spurred on by watergate expert on by the dissolution of the flower power movement like falling apart and the seventies and all the movements like with the native americans and with women protesting more to have equal rights all these things were happening and so it kind of expose that and the art reflected that which was great yeah
25:05
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's get into it.
25:06
[SPEAKER_10]: So, so it starts off with a book which is called Six Days of a Condor.
25:10
[SPEAKER_10]: Right, which is more time.
25:11
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, which is like, and I think it is a very, three days is better.
25:14
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
25:15
[SPEAKER_11]: We don't have, we don't have a week to tell the story, but we've got a weekend.
25:19
[SPEAKER_10]: There's all these rules about like numbers and like certain numbers or comedy numbers and certain numbers are six is a terrible number.
25:27
[SPEAKER_11]: There's a power to prime numbers, I think, you know, three, five, seven, eleven, thirteen.
25:32
[SPEAKER_11]: I'll stop listing them, but there's a one more trick to go through them.
25:36
[SPEAKER_10]: And it heard book came out in the 74 and this movie 75.
25:40
[SPEAKER_10]: So it's really fast from the book to this movie coming out.
25:44
[SPEAKER_10]: And we start in this film with some really funky 70s music.
25:49
[SPEAKER_11]: are that brings me to Dave Grussen.
25:50
[SPEAKER_11]: So he's an interesting collaborator with Sidney because he works with him on practically everything.
25:58
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, he worked with him on like the Yakuza, like he even recommended him on stuff.
26:02
[SPEAKER_11]: The Yakuza was rubber bitch.
26:04
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's Sidney Paul too.
26:05
[SPEAKER_11]: That's Dave Grussen.
26:06
[SPEAKER_11]: I didn't know that was Sidney Paul.
26:07
[SPEAKER_11]: And he does the music on like absence of malice.
26:10
[SPEAKER_11]: He does it on Havana, he does it on the firm.
26:13
[SPEAKER_11]: And even he said, even recommended me for films, he produced like that recount thing that was on HBO.
26:20
[SPEAKER_11]: That's a Sydney Pollock production that he almost directed, I guess.
26:23
[SPEAKER_11]: But so right, we get this mound down on one of the summaries.
26:27
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
26:28
[SPEAKER_11]: The funny thing about gruesome is like, God love him.
26:30
[SPEAKER_11]: Like what I love about your podcast, too, is it's a positive podcast.
26:33
[SPEAKER_11]: So we'll keep it positive.
26:34
[SPEAKER_11]: But I think,
26:35
[SPEAKER_11]: He always sort of changed with the times, but I also think sadly a lot of his music in all of Pollock's movie sound a little dated because there's always a little bit too much of the time.
26:45
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
26:45
[SPEAKER_11]: And because in absence of Malice, which is 81, there's just some stuff that almost feels like it's Rocky 3 music sometimes, like in a couple like Paul Newman now.
26:54
[SPEAKER_11]: He's going, went to the store, you know what I mean, where you're like, okay.
26:58
[SPEAKER_11]: I got it, like we should be inspired now, and you're right.
27:01
[SPEAKER_11]: An interesting thing I thought while watching all this stuff with Paul, I can see him bruising and stuff is that, there's also an interesting thing about when you work with the same people all the time and you sometimes mix it up, because Sydney used this guy for his composer for almost like, I don't know, seven or eight films in a row.
27:16
[SPEAKER_11]: Then when you finally, when he just out of Africa,
27:19
[SPEAKER_11]: He is using John Barry score as a temp track when he's editing.
27:23
[SPEAKER_11]: John Barry's the guy who did all the James Bond stuff.
27:27
[SPEAKER_11]: And I guess he kind of falls in love with the John Barry stuff to the degree that he finally goes to John Barry rather than gruesome.
27:34
[SPEAKER_11]: That out of Africa score is really beautiful.
27:36
[SPEAKER_11]: And John Barry wins an Oscar before that score and Sydney finally wins an Oscar.
27:40
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, so it's kind of funny that
27:42
[SPEAKER_11]: Like out of Africa except for Redford is one of those times where he kind of didn't bring all the same guys back and it seemed to have been the the special thing that kind of got Sydney over the edge to finally get best picture Best director all that kind of all those guys are like hey dragon them down
27:58
[SPEAKER_10]: So, as we get our funky music, we're immediately introduced to this place of work where we're seeing books and research and people are talking about things that we don't understand.
28:09
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's a really good, mysterious kind of opening, like, what is this place?
28:13
[SPEAKER_11]: I think one of the great things about this movie.
28:16
[SPEAKER_11]: And watching all these movies again, it made me realize this is something that Pollock does really good.
28:22
[SPEAKER_11]: He is a master of setting up his world in the first five to ten minutes, which any movie has to do.
28:27
[SPEAKER_11]: Tootsie, one of the best goddamn first ten minutes of a movie.
28:32
[SPEAKER_11]: We get so much information about Dustin Hoffman in that time.
28:36
[SPEAKER_11]: The kind of actor he is, the relationship he has with Del Murray, with Terry Garer, like why he's such a frustrating guy to, we get that he's not only a tremendous actor, but that he's a pain in the ass, like we get everything.
28:47
[SPEAKER_11]: The firm has another great, those first 10 minutes, we're getting, and this is really hard to do.
28:52
[SPEAKER_10]: I mean, this is tough.
28:54
[SPEAKER_10]: I mean, from the screenwriting point, to everybody's like, how do we compress time and get all the information we need and what we establish, one of the things I really love about this opening is that it establishes it as such a normal place, like it seems like an ordinary place of work.
29:09
[SPEAKER_11]: We're seeing what the guys actually do, we're seeing the books, the computers are scanning the books, but it's important to remember, and this is even true in the font they use,
29:17
[SPEAKER_11]: We were actually watching for 1975 is super high tech, you know like to now to us it looks quaint like there's just these mechanical things moving stuff They're talking about hey can I get a few minutes on the computer because they all have to share computer time and stuff But it's like super high tech and the font is even you know like That's a very computer refund I remember learning how to draw that font on my notebook in the late seventies like because that was the cool sci-fi font Wow
29:42
[SPEAKER_10]: Um, and we get to I love the shot a Robert Redford on that scooter heading to work.
29:47
[SPEAKER_10]: It's so fun.
29:48
[SPEAKER_10]: And he he shows up.
29:49
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
29:49
[SPEAKER_10]: He's got that too.
29:50
[SPEAKER_10]: The guy's going to be.
29:51
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
29:52
[SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, and there's some guy that's in a car that's, you know, and this is one of the things the movie does really well is just setting the tension.
29:58
[SPEAKER_10]: Just a little bit with these little details Robert Redford shows up and it is a very different character for him.
30:03
[SPEAKER_10]: As you say, it's nerdy.
30:04
[SPEAKER_10]: He's smart.
30:05
[SPEAKER_10]: He's kind of overly involved in everything.
30:08
[SPEAKER_10]: He's a little bit.
30:10
[SPEAKER_10]: He's got a sense of humor.
30:11
[SPEAKER_10]: He's a little joke.
30:12
[SPEAKER_10]: He doesn't take things too seriously.
30:14
[SPEAKER_10]: It's a lot of fun watching him walk into this space.
30:16
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but he's but he's also questioned because that guy comes up and he's like you didn't follow the proper channels right this kind of so we get already like you said the first 10 minutes of this film Introduces us so concretely to the Robert Redford character right.
30:29
[SPEAKER_09]: He's intelligent.
30:30
[SPEAKER_09]: He's smart He's so intelligent in a smart that he does not follow.
30:33
[SPEAKER_09]: He doesn't feel like he has to follow the rules We immediately already set up the fact that he will break rules as he goes along to the bill right exactly like the fact that he goes out the other
30:41
[SPEAKER_11]: way that he has all these little different protocol things that he's not a guy that's obsessed with doing everything by the book even though he loves books.
30:48
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and then in the set of it's great too is that we get just a little bit those six characters are all real people and just a few exchanges of lines and stuff the security art hey he's not doing it right the you know the lady constantly smoking with the gun in the drawer right that's a key detail but it's like oh why she got a gun in drawer what is this place?
31:06
[SPEAKER_11]: And the office romance, like, interracial romance in 1975, pretty cool, you know, not something we saw a lot after he just came up with me, you know, in great that's be the year before, you know, it's like, and now it's like, oh wait, he's, is he dating a nation?
31:21
[SPEAKER_10]: And they don't put any, they don't put any stuff on it.
31:24
[SPEAKER_10]: You know what I mean?
31:25
[SPEAKER_10]: They don't explain it.
31:26
[SPEAKER_10]: We don't know exactly what the relationship is.
31:28
[SPEAKER_10]: We just kind of show it and we sort of move on.
31:30
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
31:31
[SPEAKER_10]: It's really done well.
31:33
[SPEAKER_10]: And then, and we continue to have these little details of something's going on.
31:38
[SPEAKER_10]: We see this van pull up.
31:40
[SPEAKER_10]: We go out, he goes out because there's kids messing with his scooter and you have this moment of weight.
31:44
[SPEAKER_10]: Something you can feel like he's taking things.
31:47
[SPEAKER_11]: Because he goes like,
31:48
[SPEAKER_10]: what's on your mind you know i mean like it's not he's doesn't come out there is a bully he's not confrontational he seems a little bit troubled by it but you know like and then they're just run off but i just i love that line like what's on your mind like it's a strange comfort non-conference even a little thing like the man puts it on brallo and a garbage can and all of these things are sort of like something's happening you don't know what and then a redford is like gonna have to go out to get some lunch and he again violating the rules goes out through some back exit right
32:15
[SPEAKER_11]: because he figured out it takes 30 seconds off the travel time.
32:18
[SPEAKER_10]: And he saves him from getting wet in the rain a little bit more.
32:21
[SPEAKER_10]: And we know this is a key thing.
32:24
[SPEAKER_10]: He's that, oh, they don't know that he left.
32:27
[SPEAKER_10]: Whoever these people are with the list, he goes over to this diner.
32:29
[SPEAKER_10]: That's what really, it's a great scene in the diner.
32:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm building up a great collection of rejections.
32:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know the theater.
32:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I always wanted to be a scruffy ape.
32:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, maybe it's not too late.
32:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Van Gogh was 30 before he started to paint.
32:42
[SPEAKER_03]: No kidding.
32:43
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no mayonnaise on Dr. Lack.
32:46
[SPEAKER_03]: We had a hand Mozart was three when he started playing the piano and he was composing it six.
32:50
[SPEAKER_03]: That started.
32:51
[SPEAKER_03]: It's probably better.
32:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
32:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Ben, go and never sold a painting in a whole lifetime.
32:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Mozart died of popper.
32:58
[SPEAKER_01]: What am I doing?
32:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You all probably glabbering?
33:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, that's a very bright man.
33:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very educational.
33:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I come in here.
33:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Just come in here to get six, just like everybody else.
33:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on, man.
33:08
[SPEAKER_03]: They know butter on race, isn't it?
33:10
[SPEAKER_03]: It gets very panicky about butter.
33:12
[SPEAKER_11]: total save the cat stuff in terms of like he keeps doing stuff that both reinforces his character that he's a little bit of a raw lawbreaker but that he's also just a really good person that cares about people you know and smart and funny and kind of engaging and then in coming back guys.
33:28
[SPEAKER_09]: well also incredibly analytical right because the saving the 30 seconds he helps them out at the beginning with the like he helps them like figure right what what they can't seem to figure out he figures out for them exactly that's a full it there's you know that they're struggling with it and then he just he gets it in like 20 seconds and then he what he says to the kids I think makes sense too because he's like what's on your mind it's not stopped doing it's I want to know what is making you think
33:52
[SPEAKER_09]: Leading you to this conclusion that you should be doing this at this moment, right?
33:55
[SPEAKER_09]: It's about Analyze.
33:55
[SPEAKER_09]: So already we're laying the groundwork and believable exchanges with these people that he's going to, that he has this kind of processing brain, and what's great is the little moments you get with these characters, let's us feel their deaths powerfully, which is what we're about to get into.
34:11
[SPEAKER_09]: Right.
34:11
[SPEAKER_11]: Because he's even selling it when he's at the restaurant, saying, like, hey, Dr. Lapis, he's very, very touchy about the mustard, you know, whatever you're like, oh, he cares about these guys.
34:20
[SPEAKER_10]: He's human.
34:21
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's a little, it's all the little details and income the professionals and they just wipe it out.
34:27
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's, and I was thinking about what makes this sequence of scary and, and it's a strange analogy, but it reminds me in a strange way of jaws.
34:34
[SPEAKER_10]: And this is why is that part of what makes jaws so scary when you're sitting on the beach is that it seems so normal.
34:40
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
34:40
[SPEAKER_10]: This completely abnormal thing is happening to things that look very familiar.
34:44
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
34:45
[SPEAKER_10]: And this group of people that are just at work seems very like
34:48
[SPEAKER_10]: no ordinary people at work and the scary guys come in it and the other thought I had was like part of what makes professional killers like these guys are so scary is there is no time there's no ramp up to your in trouble in which you might be able to defend yourself it's like oh I'm already dead yeah and there's no play I mean the the woman is killed first and she it's almost a python ask moment where she just falls back in the chair you know and then the security guard starts to kind of run and go for the door but I think
35:15
[SPEAKER_11]: Another thing about this, and it's really interesting, this is why it's probably my favorite Pollock score with this guy.
35:21
[SPEAKER_11]: There's no score in this scene, it's very little score in this movie, but we constantly hear the worrying sound of the computer.
35:31
[SPEAKER_11]: That's just extra chilling and makes it extraordinary, which is part of what I think it's so creepy.
35:36
[SPEAKER_11]: I've never been just doing their job, it's happening at their job, and you hear the machine still going.
35:41
[SPEAKER_11]: I also think playing into that, the watergate thing is the fact that one of the guys dresses up as a male man.
35:47
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.
35:48
[SPEAKER_11]: So that's sort of like, look, here's the guy who's disguising himself as part of the most trusted part of our government and, you know, you can't trust them.
35:55
[SPEAKER_11]: And then, I mean, the most important thing you'd, yeah, with the bad guys coming in is Max Juan Cida.
36:00
[SPEAKER_10]: That's Juan Cida.
36:01
[SPEAKER_11]: Now, I mean, one thing to Paul is so good at is casting, and what I love too is that he's, I think he's self-aware as a castor, like he's not just casting people for the role, but he's bringing, he brings their history to it, and I think seed out is so good.
36:16
[SPEAKER_09]: That's a good point.
36:16
[SPEAKER_11]: It's such a great casting on two levels.
36:19
[SPEAKER_11]: It's contrast casting, because seed out, you know, ten years before this played Jesus.
36:23
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
36:23
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, but
36:25
[SPEAKER_11]: 15 year or almost 20 years before this he plays that night in the seventh seal that plays chess with death and I think in a way He it's like he's death in this movie sure you know, I mean, so he almost symbolizes death in this movie And there's something really interesting about getting the guy that kind of you know has come to I don't know embody death in a way with that kind of that connection to the seventh seal, you know
36:47
[SPEAKER_10]: Seedos great and here fun fact, by the way, my iPad auto cracks Max Von Seedow as Max Von Shadow.
36:55
[SPEAKER_10]: I think it's kind of a cool name.
36:58
[SPEAKER_10]: So they clear out.
37:00
[SPEAKER_10]: Redford comes back.
37:01
[SPEAKER_10]: He's got his lunch.
37:02
[SPEAKER_10]: The door is open for some reason and he comes in and it does a great job.
37:08
[SPEAKER_11]: And that's a really tough
37:12
[SPEAKER_11]: acting to do is acting like when you're discovering something that is, you know, my wife's cheated, you know, whatever that thing is like to play that is really difficult thing to do.
37:22
[SPEAKER_09]: Well also because you have to escalate it as you discover the different people and you have to give those people a history mind so when you're watching them when you're discovering them dead there is all of this thing and then you're piling on as you go further and further up the building he's seeing more and more people like everyone is dead.
37:40
[SPEAKER_09]: Right, which is why it leads to that incredible phone conversation.
37:42
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if we're going to get to that just yet, but like the frustration in his voice when home is like, you know, give me your designation, watch your design and he's just like, God damn it and he just loses it and I love that because that's building.
37:55
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, he's a perfect guest to hold it on together, but it's this kind of emotion from someone who's not used to expressing emotion in controlled bursts.
38:10
[SPEAKER_11]: And you see the, because he's analyzing it exactly.
38:13
[SPEAKER_10]: And even the moment with his girlfriend, we think this is his girlfriend.
38:16
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
38:17
[SPEAKER_10]: It's small and it's tender and it's real.
38:20
[SPEAKER_10]: But he knows, I gotta get out of here.
38:22
[SPEAKER_10]: It's great.
38:23
[SPEAKER_10]: And little details, by the way, like that's right.
38:25
[SPEAKER_11]: And by the her death, I mean, that's, because ever and else basically just gets clobbered the one guy kind of runs away and when she, you know, she, they give her, deservedly.
38:35
[SPEAKER_11]: the full realization that this is her death, and then she, you know, I won't scream, it's like, you know, and then they're, they don't even kind of see the weird strange honor that Joe Bear has, you know, you know, it's like, Joe Bear is the maximum seat up here.
38:47
[SPEAKER_11]: Exactly, yes, you know, I know, but then meanwhile, creepy post office guy is creeping over on the left to get it, so that he doesn't have the window angle, you know, and then she doesn't scream, you know, I mean, no, it's a sad death.
39:00
[SPEAKER_10]: So Redford puts out the cigarette that
39:05
[SPEAKER_11]: I love that.
39:05
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I love that it's still burning.
39:07
[SPEAKER_11]: That's such a great thing.
39:07
[SPEAKER_11]: But then the fact that he, again, you know, he remembers to grab his gut.
39:11
[SPEAKER_10]: He grabbed her gun.
39:12
[SPEAKER_10]: This is my wife pointed out.
39:14
[SPEAKER_10]: Does not think about going out the back way.
39:16
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's interesting.
39:17
[SPEAKER_11]: I thought about that.
39:18
[SPEAKER_11]: He doesn't, but he's already come in the front way.
39:20
[SPEAKER_10]: That's a good point.
39:20
[SPEAKER_11]: So he figures, look, if I'm assuming he, I've already been seen coming in.
39:25
[SPEAKER_11]: So there's no point going out the back way because if, you know, let
39:34
[SPEAKER_10]: makes a choice to not take his scooter, which is interesting, and again, and this is what we're going to see from this character.
39:39
[SPEAKER_10]: This guy smart.
39:40
[SPEAKER_10]: You know that he was smart at the beginning, and while he is panic now, we are going to see those wheels start to turn, you know, they grind a little bit at first and then turn faster and faster until we see the actions of a really smart guy in a genuinely scary situation.
39:57
[SPEAKER_09]: He's constantly smart in the moment, and you as a viewer going, why is he doing that?
40:01
[SPEAKER_09]: Why is he doing that?
40:02
[SPEAKER_09]: But you're constantly seeing those wheels turning.
40:04
[SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
40:05
[SPEAKER_09]: And it plays out.
40:06
[SPEAKER_09]: It bears out what his decisions bear out as the film goes on.
40:09
[SPEAKER_10]: One of the things that this movie does so well is make you distrust the world with him.
40:14
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
40:14
[SPEAKER_10]: Is that there's a woman coming with a baby carriage?
40:17
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh yeah.
40:18
[SPEAKER_10]: And there's this moment of like, she's a killer.
40:21
[SPEAKER_10]: Maybe everyone is a killer.
40:22
[SPEAKER_10]: And you feel that with him.
40:24
[SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, this is a kind of feeling, I think we don't do as much in movies anymore because we're so addicted to action, and action is the antithesis of this moment, which is the fear comes before the action.
40:36
[SPEAKER_10]: And so he goes off, he runs.
40:38
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, there's enormous amount of anticipatory tension in this movie.
40:42
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, because what this movie is is really kind of exposing a scary world underneath our world.
40:48
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
40:49
[SPEAKER_10]: So he gets to make this phone calls.
40:50
[SPEAKER_10]: You mentioned before.
40:51
[SPEAKER_10]: He calls into the Bager.
40:53
[SPEAKER_10]: And that's a great sequence.
40:55
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
40:56
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
40:57
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a major.
40:58
[SPEAKER_03]: This is Joe Turner.
40:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, identification.
41:00
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
41:01
[SPEAKER_15]: Identification.
41:02
[SPEAKER_03]: My name is Turner.
41:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I work for you.
41:04
[SPEAKER_15]: Now, let's identify yourself.
41:06
[SPEAKER_15]: Well, I don't want to hear a designation.
41:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Condo.
41:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Section 9, Department 17, the section's been hit.
41:13
[SPEAKER_03]: What level?
41:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Level.
41:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Level of damage.
41:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody.
41:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Laptainus, Ray Harold.
41:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Harold was in the, uh, uh, we want a company line.
41:23
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I'm in a phone booth.
41:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just a block away.
41:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in the street.
41:26
[SPEAKER_17]: You're in violation of secure communication procedures, come on.
41:29
[SPEAKER_18]: Listen, you son of a bitch.
41:30
[SPEAKER_18]: I'm telling you, I came back with lunch and it was raining in the whole house.
41:33
[SPEAKER_18]: What's murdered, everybody is dead.
41:35
[SPEAKER_16]: Right.
41:35
[SPEAKER_17]: As the incident was been discovered by anyone outside the company.
41:39
[SPEAKER_18]: I don't know.
41:40
[SPEAKER_17]: I don't think so.
41:41
[SPEAKER_17]: Find your damage.
41:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Damage.
41:46
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
41:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you on?
41:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't.
41:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I have Mrs. I don't.
41:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't can't remember her coat name.
41:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Nightingale.
41:52
[SPEAKER_03]: She was afraid of being raped.
41:53
[SPEAKER_03]: She kept her gun.
41:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got the gun.
41:54
[SPEAKER_19]: I don't have any arm on this.
41:56
[SPEAKER_19]: It's a 45 automatic.
41:58
[SPEAKER_19]: Can you guys bring me in?
41:59
[SPEAKER_19]: Please.
42:00
[SPEAKER_19]: I'm not a field agent.
42:01
[SPEAKER_19]: I just read books.
42:02
[SPEAKER_19]: Leave the area.
42:04
[SPEAKER_17]: All right.
42:05
[SPEAKER_19]: What do I come into headquarters now?
42:08
[SPEAKER_11]: As you said, as he's processing, it's like, you know, go somewhere, someone you know or it's like, who's laughed?
42:13
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I mean, like literally like, oh, my girlfriend and all my co-workers are now dead.
42:18
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, where am I supposed to go?
42:19
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, I like when he says, uh, what's the level or what level?
42:22
[SPEAKER_09]: And he's like, they're all dead.
42:23
[SPEAKER_09]: And what level, what level, what level is the role dead?
42:25
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, really not happy with all the jargon.
42:28
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
42:28
[SPEAKER_11]: The major is throwing out.
42:29
[SPEAKER_09]: in that moment.
42:31
[SPEAKER_09]: And I love the shot.
42:32
[SPEAKER_09]: Pollock puts the camera in such a great place because we're not with the major.
42:36
[SPEAKER_09]: We're watching major fully and we're seeing the technology around him and we're seeing the microphone out and all this and then then we get the small close ups.
42:45
[SPEAKER_09]: But like from the initially from the call, I like that we're at a distance because that's how he feels.
42:50
[SPEAKER_09]: And just the detail that he's in a
42:51
[SPEAKER_09]: wheelchair.
42:52
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes, it's so great.
42:54
[SPEAKER_10]: And this is, you know, movies are made on details.
42:55
[SPEAKER_10]: I know it's a thing I say over and over and over again, but, but this is such a great one because you go, oh, that's interesting.
43:01
[SPEAKER_10]: And you see Redford realize it first, like, why can't I just talk to you like a person and it's like, oh, no, no, I have to, I'm condor, and this is what it is.
43:09
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's like, oh, I'm going to have to follow these rules.
43:12
[SPEAKER_11]: I got her, I don't remember night in jail.
43:14
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, as he's like, they taught me all this stuff on my first day.
43:18
[SPEAKER_11]: And we've never used it since, you know,
43:20
[SPEAKER_10]: And he slowly gets himself out of control and then ends up they're not going to bring him in.
43:24
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they need him to stay out for two hours.
43:26
[SPEAKER_10]: Go to another location.
43:27
[SPEAKER_10]: Don't go to your apartment.
43:29
[SPEAKER_10]: Go somewhere else.
43:30
[SPEAKER_10]: He just like, where should I go?
43:31
[SPEAKER_10]: And then I love the don't hang up the phone.
43:34
[SPEAKER_10]: Just drop it and walk.
43:35
[SPEAKER_10]: You're right.
43:35
[SPEAKER_11]: There is something super creepy about that.
43:37
[SPEAKER_11]: Like even now.
43:38
[SPEAKER_11]: Or yeah.
43:39
[SPEAKER_10]: You know, and I can't still can't do something and then why would they want that?
43:42
[SPEAKER_10]: They worried the phone's traced or right.
43:43
[SPEAKER_10]: What are they but the the moment Who's thinking about it and the shot he walks away in the camera slowly comes down It's just a great moment.
43:51
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I mean again in watching all the parks stuff again Especially when he does movies in 235 he really is a good shooter I mean he he picks really good DPs too, um, but
44:01
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like he really enjoyed doing that stuff with it.
44:04
[SPEAKER_11]: The irony is that I guess he literally sued some scandinavian like TV company for running this show in pan and scan.
44:10
[SPEAKER_10]: He was so at the first lawsuit on this ever.
44:13
[SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
44:13
[SPEAKER_11]: And then in which he won, I believe.
44:15
[SPEAKER_11]: But then he became so frustrated with the pan and scan factor that after Tootsie, he didn't shoot and he shot all of his movies in 185 and I don't think he went back to two to two to three five until his last movie until the interpreter.
44:28
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, good.
44:28
[SPEAKER_11]: And then he was mad that he hadn't done it on out of Africa and some of these other ones because he realized that once DVD and laser disc and all this stuff came around, he realized it's sort of got preserved, but he sort of purposely made, it's like, everything's going to TV.
44:41
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm tired of them moving my shit around.
44:43
[SPEAKER_11]: So he went to the smaller format.
44:45
[SPEAKER_10]: And I don't think the movies in the smaller format look as nice as... This is one of the great lucky things about today.
44:51
[SPEAKER_10]: It's the death of Pan and Scan.
44:53
[SPEAKER_10]: Because man, it's a horrible, horrible thing.
44:56
[SPEAKER_10]: So now we have the CIA clean up crew heading over to to check out if they're really, if what Condor says is true, Intercut with Redford going to the Guggenheim, going to the Guggenheim, going to the Guggenheim, going to the Guggenheim places to go.
45:08
[SPEAKER_11]: He has to go to a smart place.
45:09
[SPEAKER_11]: He still can't just go to a dirty movie theater in Times Square.
45:14
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, nah, it goes to the Guggenheim.
45:16
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, when I think this is another place where great casting comes in.
45:19
[SPEAKER_11]: So this is where we get to meet Cliff Robertson.
45:21
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, right.
45:22
[SPEAKER_11]: And again,
45:24
[SPEAKER_11]: Cliff Robinson is JFK.
45:25
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
45:26
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
45:26
[SPEAKER_11]: And so that's just another bit of great Paul at casting because it's like if America looks at Cliff Robinson in 1975, they just see everything that's right about America and the government.
45:36
[SPEAKER_10]: You know.
45:37
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, what I would say about that is they see both.
45:40
[SPEAKER_10]: It's because what's interesting about what he does in this part is he has to walk this line.
45:45
[SPEAKER_10]: For the whole movie where we don't actually know exactly what's going on in his head It's true.
45:50
[SPEAKER_10]: And what you're interested in is that in 1975 He he represents early 1960s America right so well on one hand It's like this is everything that's right with America It also represents who we might not trust exactly you know, I mean, and so this like this both of these things are in this character Who we think at least seems to be trying to help the on-door
46:12
[SPEAKER_10]: It's hard to know.
46:13
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's what was so great about when those guys made winter soldier and they were trying to do it Back to these films and so then they actually got red for to participate and redford has now he'd become the Cliff Robertson And then to take it that next although where they just fall on had him be bad, you know, you're like, ah, you know, wheels within wheels
46:30
[SPEAKER_09]: It was a great twist.
46:31
[SPEAKER_09]: I love that in Winter Soldier.
46:33
[SPEAKER_09]: Great part of this is also a great casting choice because he brings the kind of, he brings that weight to the heart that you need, that you want to believe, I mean, you want to trust him.
46:42
[SPEAKER_09]: So therefore, when he does betray him, he does kind of turn on him.
46:47
[SPEAKER_09]: You are like even more devastating because you want it.
46:49
[SPEAKER_09]: Like you said, you played the president, but he also did Charlie.
46:52
[SPEAKER_09]: People forget Charlie.
46:53
[SPEAKER_09]: So one of the first portrayals of a mentally handicapped person and he, I think he won the Oscar for that too.
46:59
[SPEAKER_09]: So I think so.
47:00
[SPEAKER_09]: got nominated.
47:01
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but I remember reading that book and then watching the movie.
47:03
[SPEAKER_09]: And they're spainfully amazing.
47:05
[SPEAKER_10]: There's a recent one story that is like that made me cry more than anything.
47:09
[SPEAKER_10]: I read it in junior high.
47:10
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, like that mess me up so much.
47:13
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's the casting.
47:14
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like that's where you're using it to your advantage with that baggage.
47:18
[SPEAKER_11]: when it's good baggage, like Sam Remy using him as Uncle Ben.
47:22
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
47:22
[SPEAKER_10]: So just when you think about Cliff Robertson getting killed stopping a robbery or like, no, no, it's a really good point that I don't really talk about very much as you're right, is it's not just that actor in that role, it's that actor and our history moves that actor over time.
47:35
[SPEAKER_09]: I think him and Glenn Ford have our injustice that does that to some has a separate box So yeah, together Glenn Ford's in two scenes in Superman.
47:43
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and if I start thinking about that scene too much I will get choked up the second he grabs his arm.
47:48
[SPEAKER_09]: It's cry city.
47:49
[SPEAKER_09]: It's tears for me every time he grabs his arm Superman the movie.
47:52
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm like, oh no
47:53
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's why, and it's interesting about like, that makes me think about like Henry Fondon wants it on a time in the West where like he was really uncomfortable about it and I think there was the thing where he did not, he wanted to put in contact, you know, because he fell everyone was so connected to him as the like the blue-eyed, you know, symbol of America, but then I think Leonis says he know.
48:11
[SPEAKER_11]: You got it.
48:12
[SPEAKER_10]: But I don't imagine.
48:13
[SPEAKER_11]: To me, I actually, I always thought that this was a thing that made, it made road to
48:19
[SPEAKER_11]: harder than it needed to be.
48:20
[SPEAKER_11]: Was that Tom Hanks does a brilliant performance in that movie.
48:23
[SPEAKER_11]: He's working against everything.
48:26
[SPEAKER_11]: And so even though we appreciate it, I think in some ways that film might have been better served by a Russell Crower or someone that we already just bring the this is a scary guy baggage to.
48:35
[SPEAKER_11]: I think Tom earned it, but sometimes that could be the thing.
48:38
[SPEAKER_10]: Of course it gets tight.
48:38
[SPEAKER_10]: It's always a risk.
48:39
[SPEAKER_10]: It's always going to be a gamble of like, is this going even with a really great actor like Tom Hanks.
48:43
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
48:44
[SPEAKER_10]: So we see some other people in the CIA who go like, oh, we got to get me on a plane to New York right away.
48:48
[SPEAKER_10]: Yep.
48:49
[SPEAKER_10]: Redford goes and checks out, which probably isn't a very smart thing.
48:52
[SPEAKER_10]: The seventh person who didn't come into work that day.
48:55
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
48:56
[SPEAKER_10]: Not only does he find him dead, but just as he's checking him out to other guys come in.
49:00
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
49:00
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's a little bit of a close call.
49:02
[SPEAKER_10]: Redford getting away.
49:03
[SPEAKER_11]: one of the voices that we're hearing there's all this great voice over stuff and we're seeing all this stuff of like they're running it out of world trade center which is rough to watch and really is yeah and especially those shots where you're like oh only the world trade centers that high like some of those out the window shots but I'm almost positive that we hear Daphne Coleman's voice as one of those guys
49:23
[SPEAKER_11]: And I bring it up because Dabney Coleman weirdly enough is in the first three movies that Sydney Pollock ever did.
49:28
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, like they must have been buddies or something and then obviously he's in Tootsie, and I guess Dabney Coleman was supposed to play the agent in Tootsie before.
49:36
[SPEAKER_09]: Pollactive.
49:36
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
49:37
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
49:37
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
49:37
[SPEAKER_11]: Basically Hoffman insisted that it be Pollock and not be.
49:41
[SPEAKER_11]: But so and that definitely isn't going along with, you know, Pollock just using his buddies, whatever.
49:46
[SPEAKER_11]: But I'm like, I'm almost.
49:47
[SPEAKER_10]: positive that is that's the culmination for us now now okay cinephiles out there I think you need to do some internet research Let's see if you can find out the answer that but I love the sequence how he gets away Steve Will you brought up because he's not Jason born now.
50:01
[SPEAKER_09]: He's not Jason board.
50:02
[SPEAKER_09]: He's not this kind of CIA trained operative
50:04
[SPEAKER_09]: He has to rely on his wits, he has to rely on a little bit of luck in certain moments and outwitting these guys, because if these guys were that intelligent, they wouldn't be just, you know, assassins are just killers.
50:16
[SPEAKER_09]: They'd be higher up in the chain.
50:18
[SPEAKER_09]: So he has a way of an other than Joe Barr obviously, but like everyone else comes a little more soggy like, you know, and so he's able to outsmart them in that way, and that to works as a bandage numerous times, and this is one of those times.
50:31
[SPEAKER_10]: So now it's time to have this second call.
50:34
[SPEAKER_10]: And we're just gotten in a little bit more under control at this moment.
50:37
[SPEAKER_10]: He goes to make the second call and he's on the phone now with Cliff Robertson.
50:41
[SPEAKER_10]: This is condorian.
50:42
[SPEAKER_16]: Who's the deputy director of against New York Center?
50:45
[SPEAKER_16]: I'm controlling how condor, where are you?
50:47
[SPEAKER_16]: How come I need a code name and you don't?
50:49
[SPEAKER_10]: And Cliff Robertson says, okay, we're going to bring you in.
50:52
[SPEAKER_10]: And you're going to go to this alley behind this hotel.
50:54
[SPEAKER_10]: And suddenly, you see Redford is not trusting him.
50:57
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
50:58
[SPEAKER_16]: One hour from now, it exactly 1530.
51:00
[SPEAKER_16]: I want you to enter that alley from the 73rd street side.
51:05
[SPEAKER_16]: Will you be there?
51:06
[SPEAKER_16]: They had a year to apartment, just came here from DC.
51:07
[SPEAKER_16]: He's going to bring you home.
51:09
[SPEAKER_16]: I've never met him.
51:13
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know you either because we're thinking of course look this is this is what the movie would have been if it had been made just five six years ago He would have come in and it would have been a different story CIA or the good guy Yeah, and you're hearing Chris Cliff Robinson's telling you and stuff because they brought in WIC I think is is the character name that's ahead of his department and But then he's like I don't know him and then right then you see him have that same realization wait.
51:36
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know you either
51:37
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, like why do I have to prove to you you have to prove to me.
51:40
[SPEAKER_11]: How come I have used my code name Yeah, you use your name like wait like how do I know that you guys aren't just the guys And of course he's right to be suspicious because one of the guys He's definitely right to be suspicious and the solution is we're gonna get this friend of yours all right We'll bring along a familiar face somebody you know Who's left
52:02
[SPEAKER_11]: you know what's again is a creepy moment where they go we know that your friends with this guy in statistics yeah which they've set up I mean in the first scene where he gets a kiss from his girlfriend it's like we're having dinner at salmon I forget that's you know the the white you know and they just it just it just comes in they don't they don't put a lantern on it at all yeah you know um but it's there you know they set it up they set that dinner up
52:24
[SPEAKER_10]: And so Redford goes, OK, if Sam comes, it's going to be OK.
52:27
[SPEAKER_10]: And then we see Sam getting ready and like the armor or whatever, he's going to bulletproof.
52:31
[SPEAKER_10]: Best put on.
52:32
[SPEAKER_10]: And he's with this guy, Wix, who doesn't take a bullet foot with the best, but does take a 45.
52:37
[SPEAKER_10]: And there's one moment in the scene that is fascinating, which is Sam is saying, oh, yeah, I've done him forever.
52:43
[SPEAKER_10]: Me and my wife, I guess, have known him forever.
52:46
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
52:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Why don't you know, I'm Condor.
52:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Joey.
52:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I know him before he was a bird, even.
52:51
[SPEAKER_03]: We want to see the end white.
52:53
[SPEAKER_03]: My wife made, too.
52:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Huh?
52:55
[SPEAKER_17]: She have her condo with girl.
52:57
[SPEAKER_17]: Hey, girl, Mr. Wix.
52:58
[SPEAKER_11]: But the fact that he either A, R, do you have the information or B was just, he's just one of those guys?
53:03
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
53:03
[SPEAKER_11]: We easily guys that's probing for that information, you know, like, it's a weird moment.
53:07
[SPEAKER_10]: And I think it creates you feeling up to this point.
53:11
[SPEAKER_10]: You're like, okay, so he's going to go in and this is going to be over there.
53:14
[SPEAKER_10]: And at that moment, I kind of go, wait a minute.
53:16
[SPEAKER_10]: Wait, what's that up here?
53:18
[SPEAKER_11]: And Sam does give him the tiniest hint of a look.
53:21
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, like, but there is another thing in it that they, again, don't paint a lantern on it all.
53:25
[SPEAKER_11]: He asked for a 45.
53:26
[SPEAKER_11]: Yep.
53:27
[SPEAKER_11]: Now, they don't make any kind of thing about our wood, but we know they've already gone out of their way to have the major has asked him what armament he has, and so he asked for the same kind of gun that Oh, right.
53:38
[SPEAKER_11]: So he's like, what kind of gun?
53:40
[SPEAKER_11]: And then he just says a coat.
53:41
[SPEAKER_11]: So catch it.
53:41
[SPEAKER_11]: You got a 45 like he literally just throws it away.
53:44
[SPEAKER_11]: They don't move in on it.
53:45
[SPEAKER_11]: There's no cut.
53:46
[SPEAKER_11]: There's no anything extra.
53:47
[SPEAKER_11]: But it's like, you're right, that's it.
53:49
[SPEAKER_11]: I hadn't thought about that, that's great.
53:50
[SPEAKER_11]: But look, there is a little bit of sauce put on the moment you just described.
53:54
[SPEAKER_11]: They want us to notice it, but having watched it a few times, you realize like, oh, the 45 things in there too, but they don't even put anything on it, you know?
54:02
[SPEAKER_10]: Now we head off to this alleyway and we have, and it's very tense.
54:06
[SPEAKER_10]: We have Sam in this guy, Wix, awaiting.
54:08
[SPEAKER_10]: And we see that Robert Redford is waiting somewhere else and how are we going to go?
54:12
[SPEAKER_10]: And then Wix does this very strange thing, which is to stack two garbage cans.
54:17
[SPEAKER_11]: And then, right, it's Sam's not an operative, so he's like, I don't even really understand what to make of this.
54:22
[SPEAKER_11]: I work in statistics.
54:23
[SPEAKER_11]: And again, no score.
54:25
[SPEAKER_11]: And we're just hearing this distant carelling or something.
54:28
[SPEAKER_11]: And this is what I love is that someone told me that, like, Quentin Tarantino runs this movie and die hard as Christmas movies.
54:35
[SPEAKER_11]: Because this is a Christmas movie.
54:37
[SPEAKER_11]: And the lack of music, again, and these action scenes are, it has such a height and defect, because you're just hearing atmosphere, you're hearing this distance singing,
54:47
[SPEAKER_11]: that's this is I think it's an amazing scene again considering that it's not it's the opposite of like say if we see a preview for something like atomic blondes that has incredible choreography it looks amazing the cutting that I mean this is just a guy walking forward in an alley slowly in the camera creeping along with him and stuff but it's so tense
55:06
[SPEAKER_10]: And this is, it's kind of the thing I've seen before is that the action sequences turns the tension down on a certain level because when you see beautiful choreography, I love beautiful choreography, but I look at that and I go, that's not real.
55:19
[SPEAKER_10]: That's not me, that's not the real word, where is, I feel like... It's not a kind of, I mean, it's not a little bit stuff.
55:26
[SPEAKER_10]: But yes, I am sure, it's not me or you.
55:28
[SPEAKER_10]: And I feel like Redford, how would I feel?
55:30
[SPEAKER_10]: What would I do in this situation?
55:32
[SPEAKER_10]: And because it feels very real, he's moving in this alleyway.
55:35
[SPEAKER_10]: It's very scary.
55:37
[SPEAKER_10]: He sees his friend Sam, the other guy is suddenly hiding, and then the other guy comes out and starts shooting.
55:44
[SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and that's when he realizes it.
55:45
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, they're going to have to make the big sandwich.
55:47
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
55:47
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
55:47
[SPEAKER_11]: It's just over the barbecue.
55:49
[SPEAKER_11]: Sam, and then, you know, they're looking, because he's like, no, come on, Joey, come on.
55:52
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, like, come down, and then, right, he makes a big sandwich.
55:55
[SPEAKER_11]: Just like, Sam, and then he shoots it red for red for, it's like, what the, you know, he dives for cover.
56:00
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
56:01
[SPEAKER_11]: He's got a silencer on it, too.
56:02
[SPEAKER_11]: And then, you know, and then, Sam, again, he is not hip to what's going on.
56:07
[SPEAKER_11]: He's like, no, no, look.
56:08
[SPEAKER_11]: He keeps trying to tell Wix.
56:10
[SPEAKER_11]: This is him.
56:10
[SPEAKER_11]: It's Joey.
56:11
[SPEAKER_11]: It's him.
56:12
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, like you're not.
56:13
[SPEAKER_11]: He's not a bad guy.
56:14
[SPEAKER_11]: Like the poor guys to the moment until he gets shot.
56:18
[SPEAKER_10]: He does not realize what's going on.
56:20
[SPEAKER_10]: Redford ruins Wix and then Wix turns and shoots right at the base of the neck above that bulletproof vest Sam.
56:27
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and that's it for Sam and Redford runs.
56:32
[SPEAKER_10]: And now the world has become really scary because the lifeline was, I'm calling the CIA and they're going to bring me in, right?
56:38
[SPEAKER_11]: The CIA sent a guy who's trying to kill me and this moment of sort of, oh, something horrible has happened in the world, but the world has a remedy to deal with the horrible thing.
56:49
[SPEAKER_11]: And I'm going to be okay, you know, kind of like, oh, there's been a horrible hurricane and I don't know say New Orleans.
56:55
[SPEAKER_11]: And now, but there's a whole structure set up to come safe.
56:58
[SPEAKER_10]: It's a crazy analogy you're reaching for but I guess not so much, you know, well, and well, and it's worse than that because the thing that was the remedy It just tried to kill me.
57:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, right.
57:10
[SPEAKER_10]: So now what is there?
57:11
[SPEAKER_09]: But this is what once again, what it is symbolizing with this film symbol is the exploration of the destruction of these
57:18
[SPEAKER_09]: Uh, yeah, but like these foundations that we had since the 40s and 60s since the Tusha Rest institutions that we had Thought protect us.
57:27
[SPEAKER_09]: We had thought to care of us and I think it's the birth of conspiracy theory too Is the late 60s seven like really the birth of this idea these movements of idea believing in this kind of stuff
57:37
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, and you see this kind of like star chambers in the 80s that is also another exploration not a great of as great of a movie But it's also an exploration of this possibility of this odd the shadow government constantly working underneath you know, and we'll get to the ending But I love that ending scene and this all this stuff that occurs leads to that exchange between Robert Redford and
57:57
[SPEAKER_09]: And so to me, this is a great moment too, because now he's like, I don't know where I stand or where I go.
58:02
[SPEAKER_09]: The one lifeline I had has been cut like everything around me has died in one form or another.
58:07
[SPEAKER_10]: Now how do I reconstruct my world?
58:10
[SPEAKER_10]: Something.
58:11
[SPEAKER_10]: So he runs.
58:12
[SPEAKER_10]: He runs into the store and there we see a life fade out of it.
58:15
[SPEAKER_10]: And by the way, it's, faith doesn't always a really interesting actress.
58:19
[SPEAKER_10]: This to me might be the, the most sort of natural and soft of the characters, because I think if we're a networker in Chinatown or Bonnie Clyde, there are these really intense people.
58:28
[SPEAKER_11]: No, it's a great point.
58:29
[SPEAKER_11]: I think about it.
58:30
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's, right, Bonnie and Clyde's kind of what puts her on the map, she does Thomas Crown of Fair a bunch of other different stuff.
58:35
[SPEAKER_11]: And she's coming, she's coming out of Chinatown and going to network.
58:39
[SPEAKER_11]: This is the film in between the two films
58:43
[SPEAKER_11]: right it's such a soft it's such a character I mean it's a real sort of really interesting it's not something you see fade play no and also I mean there's shades of gray in her character in reference character in their relationship I mean and actually I think that's another very fair thing to say I think Sydney Pollock has a very mature view of relationships between men and women I think he's
59:08
[SPEAKER_11]: I think he's like not like a frustrated romantic.
59:11
[SPEAKER_11]: The interesting thing is he stayed with his wife his entire life Like he wasn't he didn't have a bunch of lives and I don't know if he had a you know We wouldn't know if he had a bunch of affairs where but he stayed with the same woman his whole life But like things rarely work out for men and women in Sydney Pollock films like they're usually very Starcrap crossed aspect to their affairs and very often they have a fair, you know, there's there's
59:34
[SPEAKER_11]: men cheating on you know like it's it's very it's a very grown-up approach to sexuality and and start your start-cross is a really good way to say it and that's certainly true here very nice because the starts with him kidnapping yeah right and and she he started a relationship he started the movie in a relationship we can tell yeah and she's in a relationship too so they're both you know i mean i i guess you can't cheat on someone that just died but it's like practically like you know you don't remember well yeah
1:00:01
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, especially if it's on every three days for God's sake.
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, exactly.
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_09]: So he grabs her.
1:00:05
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but six days of the colondore it was more Maybe that's what they changed the time.
1:00:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Nobody's at least coal by then.
1:00:12
[SPEAKER_10]: So he grabs her forces her into her car, which is an awesome Bronco.
1:00:15
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, great
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's a great thing if he overhears her name because they're calling in for the credit card Yeah, back in the old days, and then it's like Kathy, you know, and then she turns and then, you know, and this is, you know, he kidnapped her.
1:00:27
[SPEAKER_10]: He hasn't gone to her.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_10]: Yep.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_10]: He forces her to go back to the last thing.
1:00:30
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and she is terrified.
1:00:32
[SPEAKER_10]: And what I kept keep expecting from Redford's character that he does not do make her feel better is make her feel better.
1:00:38
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:00:38
[SPEAKER_10]: He does not.
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_10]: He keeps it scare.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_10]: He doesn't say, look, I'm really a good guy.
1:00:42
[SPEAKER_10]: You're going to worry.
1:00:42
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm not going to hurt you.
1:00:43
[SPEAKER_11]: Don't worry.
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_10]: I'm not going to hurt you.
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_11]: Don't worry.
1:00:45
[SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't do anything.
1:00:45
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm not, I just, yeah.
1:00:46
[SPEAKER_10]: Throughout, and it is genuinely scary, and this is where the movie becomes, like, uh, yeah, because you really like Redford, and you really care about him, and his treatment of fate done away is like, oh, yeah, and I understand why.
1:01:00
[SPEAKER_11]: It's not sadistic, no, but he's not, he's not such a good guy that he was out of his way to, yeah, he's not allowing her to participate in the situation.
1:01:11
[SPEAKER_09]: He's forcing her to part, like he's not going, hey, this is happening to me,
1:01:16
[SPEAKER_10]: he's saying you're going to help me which is a difference right and even when he gets back through the apartment ties are up like he ties are up like that's huge yeah you couldn't I don't know if you could get away with that in 2017 I don't know well this is what you don't just we talk about over and over again on the show she's shifting is understanding the movie at the time and and then are perspective on it today yeah this is definitely one where that takes place
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_10]: Yep.
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_10]: While he's going off with her in the car, we go back to the CIA and we have the big meeting of the big guns including the biggest of our big guns, John Hausman.
1:01:45
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:01:46
[SPEAKER_10]: It's awesome.
1:01:46
[SPEAKER_10]: We've got a love John Hausman.
1:01:47
[SPEAKER_11]: Now again, playing to the strength.
1:01:48
[SPEAKER_11]: So, John Hausman produced a
1:01:52
[SPEAKER_11]: This property is condemned the Natalie Wood Robert Redford.
1:01:55
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, that's it that was Sydney's second direct toilet effort I have no idea how they connect but for some reason he produced that film and then he used them in this movie But again, I mean the weight of John Houseman with Cliff Robertson your definitely feel like well this group of people must be the good guys You know the the people we can trust
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_09]: And I think he was coming off of paper Chase, right?
1:02:15
[SPEAKER_09]: Is this country paper Chase?
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, I think so.
1:02:17
[SPEAKER_09]: I think the movie, yeah.
1:02:18
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
1:02:18
[SPEAKER_09]: And so, and this everything about it, you know, you know, obviously, you know, Stephen I know as the massive horse and well's fans have John Houseman produced a bunch of horse and well's a stuff and had been of his partner for a number of years through his conversion into Hollywood and what have you know, and had terrible acrimonies break up.
1:02:33
[SPEAKER_09]: Right.
1:02:34
[SPEAKER_09]: But he is, he was always a guy who kept going forward as an actor and a producer consistently throughout the decades.
1:02:40
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
1:02:40
[SPEAKER_10]: And you talk about someone who brings a certain very to us to a role, just his whole way of speaking.
1:02:45
[SPEAKER_10]: There isn't nobody like John Houseman, right?
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_10]: And what's so fascinating at this moment, we've just had the shoot out in the alley.
1:02:51
[SPEAKER_10]: And now it's being reported back to all the CIA guys.
1:02:54
[SPEAKER_10]: And as you're, because in our mind, okay, maybe that Wix guy was a bad guy, but the CIA are still the good guys who are gonna bring him in.
1:03:01
[SPEAKER_10]: They just don't wanna bring him in, right?
1:03:03
[SPEAKER_10]: And then as you listen to them talk, you go, oh wait.
1:03:06
[SPEAKER_14]: They think he did it.
1:03:07
[SPEAKER_14]: The question was, Mr. Higgins, is he qualified with a handgun?
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_16]: No handgun, sir.
1:03:12
[SPEAKER_16]: And one rifle in Carbyn.
1:03:15
[SPEAKER_16]: Evidently, he was sheer luck.
1:03:17
[UNKNOWN]: What else?
1:03:20
[SPEAKER_14]: Yes?
1:03:20
[SPEAKER_16]: Or else, what?
1:03:21
[SPEAKER_16]: Mr. Higgins?
1:03:22
[SPEAKER_14]: This condo isn't the man's file says he is.
1:03:25
[SPEAKER_16]: Then where did he learn a vase of moves?
1:03:27
[SPEAKER_16]: He reads.
1:03:28
[SPEAKER_16]: He reads.
1:03:29
[SPEAKER_16]: What the hell is that, man?
1:03:30
[SPEAKER_16]: It means, sir, that he reads everything.
1:03:34
[SPEAKER_14]: He does seem rather more interesting than just another of our reader searches, for example, has he gotten to business for himself?
1:03:43
[SPEAKER_14]: Was he turned around?
1:03:45
[SPEAKER_14]: Someone operate him?
1:03:47
[SPEAKER_14]: Is he homosexual, broke, vulnerable?
1:03:51
[SPEAKER_14]: Could he be a soldier of fortune?
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_11]: it, he arranged the hit.
1:03:57
[SPEAKER_11]: There's actually only one moment where they begin to as professionals entertain the one, maybe we're not, all the ways that this looks on the surface is that he that condors the one that's a problem.
1:04:11
[SPEAKER_11]: And then there's literally a, unless it could be, and then I think that there's a drift off in the scene ends or someone calls, so you're like, oh, they never even got to go down that path.
1:04:20
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, someone stopped them from exploring that,
1:04:25
[SPEAKER_10]: Is it you know as it got you know, I mean like they just start listing off all the reasons that he maybe could have been you know Has been turned then does it make sense all these people got killed and then when they sent ostensibly the good guys He killed him both or he shot his friend everyone the condor knows is dying.
1:04:41
[SPEAKER_11]: So what's in common condor?
1:04:43
[SPEAKER_09]: I'd like to know what home a sexually
1:04:45
[SPEAKER_11]: sexually played in whether or not it was a much bigger deal in terms of it's so it was a very common way I think that of turning people in spikecraft it was like if some if you knew someone was gay then you you know you had something on them and then that was a way for you to manipulate them within the world of intelligence I think so we go back to phase apartment and still Robert Redford is not cool with her I told you I had a friend
1:05:11
[SPEAKER_06]: 15 and a half thirty four.
1:05:12
[SPEAKER_06]: I did 15 and a half thirty four.
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_06]: It's what size are you with your clown?
1:05:15
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm scared.
1:05:16
[SPEAKER_06]: So much.
1:05:17
[SPEAKER_06]: What do you scared for?
1:05:17
[SPEAKER_06]: You've got the gun.
1:05:18
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
1:05:20
[SPEAKER_10]: And she is.
1:05:20
[SPEAKER_10]: You could see and she'd fit done away again.
1:05:22
[SPEAKER_10]: But it's really soft way that I don't think we've seen from her is really scared and trying to keep it together.
1:05:27
[SPEAKER_10]: And you can see the wheels turning in her head of like, is this a bad guy who's gonna rape me?
1:05:31
[SPEAKER_10]: Is this what is this?
1:05:33
[SPEAKER_10]: Trying to figure out.
1:05:34
[SPEAKER_11]: He plays this thing and this is a hard thing to play to.
1:05:36
[SPEAKER_11]: He's just so fraught.
1:05:38
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, I mean, from how exhausting this experience has been, I just love the fact that he realizes and again, he knows his greatest weapon is his brain and he is so tired and burn out from the constant adrenaline, he's like, I just need to sleep.
1:05:52
[SPEAKER_10]: This moment is kind of amazing, yeah.
1:05:54
[SPEAKER_11]: Because also, I mean, that's such a human thing.
1:05:56
[SPEAKER_11]: Like when do we ever see, like say in the next decade, when all heroes became superhuman in their white tank tops?
1:06:04
[SPEAKER_11]: And could, I mean, it's kind of what wasn't there at the beginning, right?
1:06:08
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, what we love so much about diehard is how human Bruce Willis is.
1:06:12
[SPEAKER_11]: And then Bruce Willis, unfortunately, is superhuman.
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, he turns in his human card to become an action hero.
1:06:18
[SPEAKER_11]: But why he was so great in that movie, and this is that same thing of like,
1:06:23
[SPEAKER_11]: Wait a minute guys, I know we're in the middle of a spy thriller here, but I really need to take a nap, right?
1:06:28
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that is very real.
1:06:30
[SPEAKER_10]: You have to imagine the people in the studio would be like, um, we're not so sure about this red thing in the nap thing in the fifth reel, but then where it goes is this amazing place which is he forces her to light down with him, has his arm around her holding her hand behind her back.
1:06:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think that gets the role.
1:06:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry much.
1:06:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I listen to me.
1:06:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I am tired.
1:06:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I've got to close my eyes for a while.
1:07:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't think straight.
1:07:08
[SPEAKER_04]: If you try and move, or climb off the bed, I'll know what I'll feel it.
1:07:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And I promise you, hard, you.
1:07:20
[SPEAKER_07]: Couldn't you let me stay in other room?
1:07:26
[SPEAKER_07]: I believe what you told me.
1:07:30
[SPEAKER_05]: No, you don't.
1:07:31
[SPEAKER_11]: And he's really scary in that like, and if you move, oh no, like, you know, he is not making her feel better at all.
1:07:38
[SPEAKER_10]: And it is this, we were in this, we were completely with this guy.
1:07:43
[SPEAKER_10]: And now we're like, oh my God, he's doing this horrible thing to this nice faith, don't wait person.
1:07:48
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's really terrible.
1:07:50
[SPEAKER_10]: And this is a thing that does not happen after the 70s.
1:07:52
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:07:53
[SPEAKER_10]: You know what we're going to do this with a character and just let you kind of sit in this uncomfortable Miss quick tangent.
1:07:59
[SPEAKER_11]: I'll note I did this scene in acting class once just because I was such a big fan of like 15 years ago But um, yeah, because it's just it's such a great scene.
1:08:07
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, he's in such a messed up place She's literally just trying to like fight for her life every moment.
1:08:12
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah
1:08:13
[SPEAKER_11]: But what I love, it's starting in, even in this scene when she's so scared, her quirky sense of humor is coming out in a few different little lines, and that continues throughout.
1:08:22
[SPEAKER_11]: And again, I think that's such an interesting thing, A is a character, and B is something, it's what is great about it.
1:08:29
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, why it's such a great role for Redford and it's such a great interesting role for Don't Away.
1:08:32
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if she ever got to play as, as human a character in a way, you know, like,
1:08:36
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, I think, and that's why it's inspired casting, right, because she already has this credibility brain.
1:08:42
[SPEAKER_09]: So you know, she can bring this kind of unsettling approach to the character or a very strong approach to the character.
1:08:49
[SPEAKER_09]: But she does it.
1:08:50
[SPEAKER_09]: She has a softness and the softness.
1:08:52
[SPEAKER_09]: It's one of the, it's one, it's one of my favorite fade done away.
1:08:54
[SPEAKER_09]: And I am not a person who gravitate to fade done away films.
1:08:56
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm not.
1:08:57
[SPEAKER_09]: Network, whatever.
1:08:58
[SPEAKER_09]: I can only see her, I can see it once.
1:09:00
[SPEAKER_09]: I've never seen Bonnie and Clyde.
1:09:02
[SPEAKER_09]: And so it's like it's one of those she's she's not an actress that I gravitate to naturally, but in this film because there are levels and complexity in my opinion that I can gravitate to and understand I enjoy her very much in this performance and because she ends up turning the tables as this thing goes along.
1:09:17
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah, so we see C-Dow is now meeting with looks like one of the CIA guys having some kind of conversation in D.C.
1:09:26
[SPEAKER_10]: And one of the interesting things he says that I like is he says, well, the problem with this condor guy is he's not a professional because professionals are predictable.
1:09:34
[SPEAKER_10]: And and this funny, there's something, I know you've done some martial arts, Steve Jones has done some martial arts.
1:09:39
[SPEAKER_10]: I've done martial arts for a long time.
1:09:40
[SPEAKER_10]: And one of the things you learn during martial arts is the two most dangerous people on the mat are white belts and brown belts.
1:09:46
[SPEAKER_10]: And white belts are the most dangerous because you don't know what they're gonna do.
1:09:49
[SPEAKER_10]: They're very totally unpredictable And brown belts are dangerous because they know just enough to hurt you, but not really enough to control themselves And they're very excited about what they know right and so the professionals are predictable I totally get it like a white belt will punch you in the face.
1:10:02
[SPEAKER_10]: You're just not like what's happening here No, yeah, it's a good point and then Redford wakes up and they're waiting for the news You notice his or photographs and again now you start to see but it's so funny once he gets his nap
1:10:14
[SPEAKER_11]: He is totally humanized, you know, like he starts checking out, and again, I think maybe this is some about sending him to the Googanheim, he's such an, he's so analytical, he's such an observer, he really digs her photography.
1:10:25
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's, I don't know who took those pictures, but it is great photography, you know.
1:10:29
[SPEAKER_10]: And then the news report comes on and it all girls like to have their photography dug.
1:10:33
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that's just that hell on the whole thing, you know, like,
1:10:37
[SPEAKER_11]: Because it's a good point.
1:10:38
[SPEAKER_09]: Love notes from Steve Jones.
1:10:40
[SPEAKER_09]: Coming up soon to a podcast.
1:10:41
[SPEAKER_10]: Whenever I kidnap a woman, I always make sure that I compliment her photography.
1:10:47
[SPEAKER_10]: News report comes on.
1:10:48
[SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't sound right.
1:10:49
[SPEAKER_10]: It's not what happened.
1:10:51
[SPEAKER_10]: And suddenly he realizes he needs to call Sam's wife.
1:10:53
[SPEAKER_10]: His name I don't remember.
1:10:54
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:10:55
[SPEAKER_10]: And finally goes, I have to go there.
1:10:58
[SPEAKER_10]: But what's he going to do with Fay?
1:10:59
[SPEAKER_10]: He's going to talk to me.
1:11:00
[SPEAKER_10]: higher up.
1:11:01
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:11:01
[SPEAKER_10]: Again, this is troubling.
1:11:03
[SPEAKER_10]: It's really upsetting, particularly when you're a guy that's going out possibly to be killed.
1:11:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:11:09
[SPEAKER_10]: And the woman that you just tied up, I mean, she could die.
1:11:11
[SPEAKER_10]: No.
1:11:12
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, again, like, every, you know, he's just avoided death twice.
1:11:17
[SPEAKER_11]: Everyone he know has been killed.
1:11:18
[SPEAKER_11]: Then his best friend is killed.
1:11:20
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, I mean, so he is literally running for his life.
1:11:23
[SPEAKER_11]: And now he is not being as nice to this woman as,
1:11:27
[SPEAKER_11]: He has the power that he could be being nicer to, but he also, I think, feels that his life is very much at stake.
1:11:34
[SPEAKER_11]: So, but he is making the calculated shitty decision to basically, you know, make her life be at stake too.
1:11:40
[SPEAKER_09]: Isn't this the sequence where she says, I don't think I want to get to know you that well either, or is that later on?
1:11:44
[SPEAKER_09]: I think so.
1:11:45
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
1:11:45
[SPEAKER_09]: I will show the picture.
1:11:47
[SPEAKER_11]: She says so many great, nice things too of just like, I love when she's telling her, she just calls him a bully.
1:11:52
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
1:11:52
[SPEAKER_11]: There's something so like, childlike and sort of sad about that too.
1:11:56
[SPEAKER_11]: But very real.
1:11:57
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, because now once he's woken up, he's seen me more and more like a real guy.
1:12:02
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
1:12:03
[SPEAKER_11]: So then it's like, look, you don't have to tie me up.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, can't we be reasonable about this?
1:12:07
[SPEAKER_11]: You seem like a reasonable person, you know?
1:12:09
[SPEAKER_09]: But once again, that's why you cast her because she already has the spine.
1:12:13
[SPEAKER_09]: So when she's playing it in moments that are a little more softer, tender, it's true.
1:12:18
[SPEAKER_09]: It's true.
1:12:18
[SPEAKER_11]: If you believe it, if you'd cast someone that was softer or had more of a reputation of being that, then you get, she's so strong and has been so strong that when she goes to these softer areas, we don't see her as weak.
1:12:31
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we just see her as human.
1:12:33
[SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
1:12:33
[SPEAKER_10]: That's a great way to put it.
1:12:35
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, and the thing to it's like, you know, we talked about a whole bunch of movies where we had to look at them and go, Ooh, I'm a little uncomfortable with this in terms of race or gender or sex or things like that.
1:12:45
[SPEAKER_10]: And this one I find fundamentally not that way.
1:12:47
[SPEAKER_10]: I mean, there are things I'm uncomfortable with.
1:12:49
[SPEAKER_11]: It's tricky to navigate, but it's not quite the same.
1:12:51
[SPEAKER_10]: It's intentionally making you uncomfortable, right?
1:12:53
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
1:12:54
[SPEAKER_10]: It's as opposed to, in back in the day, we would have just accepted this thing and now we look at and go, ooh, I like it.
1:12:59
[SPEAKER_11]: Apparently in that the scene we described particularly in in in these first two scenes I think I read someplace behind the scenes that is like done away was a big as a lot of the you know as anyone is was a huge Redford fan and was like really wanted to work with him and so apparently was really not quite bringing the level of fear and some of the different like she was kind of
1:13:21
[SPEAKER_11]: Being a little bit too easy.
1:13:22
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you know for going down the path that they have her character go because On a certain level she was just a big redvert fan and willing to go down that path So then I guess on a lot of her coverage and a lot of different stuff like Pollock had them shoot some of the stuff where he was kind of saying the lines and doing some the lines and kind of being the heavy That I guess redford was not redford was doing it in his own performance is to get more of that fear out of
1:13:45
[SPEAKER_11]: out of her.
1:13:46
[SPEAKER_11]: Out of her, he, I think, you know, in some of her coverage, he ended up doing this stuff to really basically scare the hell out of her.
1:13:52
[SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
1:13:52
[SPEAKER_10]: So she's tied up.
1:13:53
[SPEAKER_10]: Redford goes back to the apartment of Sam's and this scene is really powerful because, again, it's up the door.
1:14:01
[SPEAKER_11]: No grooves in music and a lot of atmosphere, music, you know, sound.
1:14:04
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:14:04
[SPEAKER_10]: And there's Sam's wife and she doesn't know.
1:14:07
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:14:08
[SPEAKER_10]: And Redford's reaction
1:14:10
[SPEAKER_11]: you know we get this is long hug and you see kind of the donning yeah and her and I love the fact that she makes that joke about like hey let's you know like let's let's let's but hey if it's our well let's get drunk it'll be like seems like a little times you know whatever like they clearly have been together but you're gonna say the shot when he looks at the four empty places yeah you know it's like
1:14:29
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, and you don't you kind of have forgotten how little time is passed.
1:14:32
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:14:32
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that was just this morning.
1:14:33
[SPEAKER_10]: They were supposed to be here tonight.
1:14:35
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:14:35
[SPEAKER_10]: Right point.
1:14:36
[SPEAKER_10]: That's interesting.
1:14:36
[SPEAKER_11]: We're only at one day.
1:14:37
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, on door at this point.
1:14:38
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:14:39
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, and so did they even need all three?
1:14:41
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's more like two and a half really.
1:14:43
[SPEAKER_10]: So, so he tells her she's got to go somewhere safe.
1:14:46
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:14:46
[SPEAKER_10]: He's trying to leave and who do we find in the elevator?
1:14:49
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, Max wants to eat out.
1:14:50
[SPEAKER_10]: Wow, such a great reveal man.
1:14:53
[SPEAKER_09]: And then the whole elevator, they both, it's like a cat in mouse.
1:14:56
[SPEAKER_09]: It's like a cat in mouse in an elevator, you know, like when he tries to get off the elevator and he corrects him, oh man, just brilliant.
1:15:05
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, he tries to leave on the second floor and then I've made that mistake too.
1:15:08
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he chatted with his kids.
1:15:10
[SPEAKER_10]: I suppose they're the same in any place now.
1:15:13
[SPEAKER_10]: And then we go, we get off in the lobby and Redford talks to the,
1:15:17
[SPEAKER_10]: He does kind of a shitty thing again.
1:15:19
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:15:19
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, he basically gets, he uses the kids as human cover.
1:15:23
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:15:24
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, like, hey, guys want to help me make some money.
1:15:27
[SPEAKER_11]: Sure, man, I'll make some help.
1:15:28
[SPEAKER_11]: He was some extra money and he basically like, hey, how about a bunch of teenagers will just surround me.
1:15:32
[SPEAKER_11]: And hopefully I'm thinking you won't want to shoot through a bunch of kids.
1:15:36
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, the altar, if the goal is to stay alive, that was exactly what you got to do.
1:15:40
[SPEAKER_09]: There's something bigger going on that he wants to find out.
1:15:42
[SPEAKER_09]: So he's going to do whatever he wants.
1:15:43
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, no, I mean, it's like, but it also makes sense because he's such an analytical guy.
1:15:48
[SPEAKER_09]: In my opinion, this is maybe something I'm bringing to it.
1:15:52
[SPEAKER_09]: does not see humans in the same way.
1:15:54
[SPEAKER_09]: Do you know what I'm saying?
1:15:55
[SPEAKER_09]: Like the fact that he thinks he can kidnap the fatty things and tie this one with fact you use these teenagers.
1:16:00
[SPEAKER_09]: There's this, right?
1:16:01
[SPEAKER_09]: And even when he sees the deaths, he doesn't weep, right?
1:16:03
[SPEAKER_09]: There's a little bit of a cry of anybody, but there's unsettled, right?
1:16:06
[SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't cry at all.
1:16:08
[SPEAKER_09]: And so, and the fact that he's even almost pseudo-moved ready to move on with faith.
1:16:12
[SPEAKER_09]: Don't away is a little unsettling that quickly after the death as well.
1:16:15
[SPEAKER_09]: So to him, it's a process, everything's a processor.
1:16:18
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, so to me it's believable what he does.
1:16:21
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't actually a chastise in for because this is who he is.
1:16:24
[SPEAKER_09]: He analyzes situations sees the best option and makes the movement, you know, which which before all this happened made him sort of a fund.
1:16:32
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes, of course, charming guy.
1:16:33
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, when the stakes weren't quite so high, you know.
1:16:36
[SPEAKER_11]: Or maybe just playing the numbers too, where it's like, all right, you know, the chances of me being killed with the four of them are significantly lower, and their chances of being hurt are lower.
1:16:45
[SPEAKER_11]: If I go out, you know, I mean, like, and he just picked the least bad option of all of the bad options he had on his Terminator pull down menu.
1:16:53
[SPEAKER_10]: So he goes back to phase apartment, he unties her.
1:16:56
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:16:57
[SPEAKER_10]: She gets a phone call from the boyfriend who's waiting her first game.
1:17:02
[SPEAKER_10]: Who's it?
1:17:02
[SPEAKER_10]: Sidney Pollock.
1:17:03
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:17:04
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that's Sidney Pollock.
1:17:05
[SPEAKER_11]: And Sidney Pollock does a lot.
1:17:06
[SPEAKER_11]: He until, you know, Hoffman's, you know, ropes him back into the world of acting 20 years after giving it up.
1:17:13
[SPEAKER_11]: He does a lot of, you know, voiceovers and and or just like walks in and a scene or does a thing.
1:17:19
[SPEAKER_11]: And then after Tootsie, then he sort of started to become
1:17:22
[SPEAKER_11]: of semi-professional actor in addition to all the other hats that he wore but yeah but i think that's part of because it's interesting it's a long voice over part and we hear a lot of what he has to say and honestly it's a terrific performance like but you yeah it is Sydney Pollock.
1:17:36
[SPEAKER_09]: I've never not believed him in anything i've seen him
1:17:39
[SPEAKER_09]: He's a great, he's terrific.
1:17:40
[SPEAKER_09]: Even in IceWide's shot, which isn't a great movie, his sequence with Tom Cruise over the pool table at the end of the movie is like unsettling, as hell.
1:17:47
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
1:17:47
[SPEAKER_09]: Because is that voice of his, too?
1:17:49
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, like when he's yelling, it doesn't hop in it, so it's he is great when they're in the diner or whatever.
1:17:54
[SPEAKER_09]: And then he gets that nice nerf thing to it.
1:17:56
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, like, and this is definitely something that I took.
1:17:59
[SPEAKER_11]: I started with a lot of different people and one of the things I appreciate of most that I got from Myzeris, it's kind of this idea of like, you don't speak it unless it's true.
1:18:05
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you know what I mean and I feel like he has this way of and I get that's why Hoffman like harass you know Hoffman was like look if it's dabni.
1:18:13
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm getting it from a peer right for me to you know He was so Hoffman was so method for me to believe that the only way for me to get apart is to dress up like a woman It has to come from you.
1:18:23
[SPEAKER_11]: It has to come from this authority if you tell me that I can't work anymore I'll believe it, you know, and that's I love that I mean, I'm gonna get out it took these a whole other night, but
1:18:32
[SPEAKER_10]: But that would be, yes, it is a whole thing now.
1:18:34
[SPEAKER_10]: Because tonight, we are sitting with fade on a way and we're on a redford as they look at the photographs.
1:18:40
[SPEAKER_10]: And this is the most vulnerable I've ever seen fade on a way and roll.
1:18:44
[SPEAKER_07]: Sometimes I take a picture that isn't like me, but I took it so it is like me.
1:18:55
[SPEAKER_07]: It has to be, I've put those pictures away.
1:19:00
[SPEAKER_05]: I'd like to see those pictures.
1:19:02
[SPEAKER_07]: We don't know each other that well.
1:19:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you know anybody that well?
1:19:08
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't think I want to know you very well.
1:19:14
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't think you're going to live much longer.
1:19:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I may surprise you.
1:19:23
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, you're not telling the truth.
1:19:26
[SPEAKER_07]: What do you mean?
1:19:26
[SPEAKER_05]: You'd rather be with somebody who's not going to live much longer.
1:19:30
[SPEAKER_05]: at least somebody who would be on his way.
1:19:33
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not going to take pictures.
1:19:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Beautiful pictures.
1:19:42
[SPEAKER_05]: But eventy streets and trees with no leaves, no member.
1:19:48
[SPEAKER_05]: Why haven't you asked me to untie your hands?
1:19:54
[SPEAKER_07]: How much do you want?
1:20:08
[SPEAKER_05]: the rest of the night.
1:20:10
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I'll go.
1:20:11
[SPEAKER_10]: And then this is where I do go.
1:20:14
[SPEAKER_10]: This is a little weird today.
1:20:16
[SPEAKER_10]: It's where a little stock only, you know, little stock home syndrome.
1:20:19
[SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
1:20:19
[SPEAKER_10]: Is that you go, oh, are they going to kiss?
1:20:22
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:20:23
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, they are.
1:20:24
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, they're having sex.
1:20:25
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's intercut with the photographs and beautifully done.
1:20:29
[SPEAKER_10]: And it is intentionally fraught with some stuff, but looking at it today, it's even more so.
1:20:33
[SPEAKER_11]: It's true, but though I do think it's not like it's believable in the context of how they've set it up and built it up, you know, I mean, they built it sort of step by step and his performance too when he's analyzing the pictures, I think, you know, it's like not winter, November, you know, like we're he, like,
1:20:50
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean that like she says I could use eyes like that like his he is weirdly enough he's kidnapped his woman, but he truly sees her and he has this really penetrating way of seeing everything you know so it's this strange thing of like wait on some level you know you really get the impression of Sydney Pollock Seaman kind of like this rough and tough guy you know like she's kind of with a guy that
1:21:12
[SPEAKER_11]: Hey, you some, it seems like the relationships in distress, like this is a save the relationship trip.
1:21:18
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, that's that she's missing.
1:21:20
[SPEAKER_11]: That's that you kind of feel like that's what's going on.
1:21:23
[SPEAKER_11]: And so then it's the sense of like, how weird is this star cross thing where a guy who's kidnapped me sees me more clearly than the guy in my life?
1:21:30
[SPEAKER_09]: And also with the film, the set up is real smart to let that happen too, because hey, you don't spend a lot of time rubbery if you're in his girlfriend.
1:21:36
[SPEAKER_09]: It's only a couple of scenes, right?
1:21:37
[SPEAKER_09]: And then you don't and you only hear this boy for an voice over and once again, you're providing you just said, Steve, you're presented a relationship in distress.
1:21:44
[SPEAKER_09]: And those of us are adults.
1:21:45
[SPEAKER_09]: We've been in these situations.
1:21:47
[SPEAKER_09]: sometimes we act on these impulses because in our minds we're already done with a relationship.
1:21:53
[SPEAKER_11]: And so there's also like, there's that's end of the world since, but he lost everything, he lost everyone in his life except for one, you know, one, you know, acts from 20 years ago.
1:22:06
[SPEAKER_11]: He doesn't know if he's going to live till tomorrow.
1:22:08
[SPEAKER_11]: and she kind of has that sense too.
1:22:10
[SPEAKER_11]: So I think there's also a little bit of like rules don't apply, the nuclear bombs are falling type thing.
1:22:15
[SPEAKER_09]: Right, but I think it bleeds into what you said earlier, Steve, when you said that he understood the complexity of male female relationships.
1:22:22
[SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
1:22:22
[SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
1:22:24
[SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
1:22:25
[SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
1:22:26
[SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
1:22:27
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, he does an approach with a lot of judgment.
1:22:29
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes, you know, he approaches that like man and women, he deals with a lot of the realities of the complexities of how men and women deal with each other.
1:22:37
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:22:38
[SPEAKER_10]: Next morning, Robert Redford gets up and now you really see the brain because you see him going through what happened in the alley, what happened yesterday, what are all the things that I've seen and trying to process them and then fake it up and she seems a pretty different person.
1:22:51
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, there's a great lot like, you know, you talking to your sleep, you know, you mentioned, you know, your girlfriend's name, who's that and it's like, was she a volunteer or or was she a
1:23:03
[SPEAKER_10]: It's a really funny line, I mean like in terms of just the awkwardness of the whole Absolutely and then we cut over to the hospital where Wix has been and this is a great murder because we're just out with the nurses Yeah, there's the heart rate monitor it goes beep and now you know up Joe bears been here.
1:23:20
[SPEAKER_10]: Yep
1:23:20
[SPEAKER_10]: back back to fade on away's apartment.
1:23:23
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, there's a mailman with a package.
1:23:25
[SPEAKER_10]: Wait a minute.
1:23:26
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:23:27
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's, can you see Redford's intelligence is he looks at the shoes?
1:23:31
[SPEAKER_10]: Something's not right and now we get a, a fight scene.
1:23:34
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
1:23:34
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
1:23:34
[SPEAKER_11]: He sees everything.
1:23:35
[SPEAKER_11]: Now I actually think this is for 1975.
1:23:38
[SPEAKER_11]: This is a pretty great fight scene.
1:23:39
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:23:40
[SPEAKER_11]: Like,
1:23:41
[SPEAKER_10]: I don't love it so much.
1:23:42
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, I mean, I think it's a little awkward, but it's like it's broken up into real beats.
1:23:46
[SPEAKER_11]: There's real cause and effect.
1:23:48
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, Redford is doing the majority of his own stunts, which he loved to do.
1:23:52
[SPEAKER_11]: Apparently, an anecdote is that any time Redford did his own stunts, he would make sure that the stuntman who would have done it got paid anyway, because he didn't want to be taking away stuntmen work from stuntmen.
1:24:02
[SPEAKER_10]: So, but he just was like communism.
1:24:05
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, he just loved, he loved doing stuntmen.
1:24:07
[SPEAKER_11]: But I think...
1:24:09
[SPEAKER_11]: If you haven't seen the Yakuza, I really recommend seeing that because I was amazed at how good that sword fight scene was for an American directed movie in 1974, you know, and I think I think he brought a little bit of that back to this scene.
1:24:21
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's just two guys going at it in an apartment, but I think for 1975
1:24:27
[SPEAKER_11]: I think it's a pretty decent fight scene, you know.
1:24:29
[SPEAKER_10]: So he manages to kill the mailman, finds a key, finds a piece of paper, it's got a phone number on it, calls the phone number, discovers that it's CIA.
1:24:38
[SPEAKER_10]: And this again is that, oh, that place that you thought you could go, the ref you're just going to save you, they're trying to kill you.
1:24:46
[SPEAKER_10]: And now we've got to go off, and this is, this is like the turn where we go from, I'm running to, I'm going to fight back.
1:24:53
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:24:53
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, or because in a sense, there's no place to run.
1:24:56
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
1:24:56
[SPEAKER_11]: So it's like, all you can do is turn and fight, you know, and now face on board.
1:25:01
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
1:25:02
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
1:25:03
[SPEAKER_11]: Reference got some magic skill.
1:25:04
[SPEAKER_11]: Six does that.
1:25:05
[SPEAKER_11]: You're connected.
1:25:06
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
1:25:07
[SPEAKER_11]: When you kidnap a woman and you compliment your compliment her photography and you see her in a way that no one else sees her and then you do a very proper lovemaking.
1:25:18
[SPEAKER_10]: Apparently she will break in to see if he had court this for you.
1:25:21
[SPEAKER_11]: You have refuted her.
1:25:22
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes, that point more.
1:25:23
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
1:25:23
[SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
1:25:24
[SPEAKER_11]: You know it's speaking of because you know in and out of sight Steven Sodorberg who's a huge fan of all things 70s You know has George Clooney and Jennifer Lopez reference this movie in reference their thing and do you think it's believable that they got together so much or not But what I think you know is unlike
1:25:42
[SPEAKER_11]: those characters and out of sight who sort of fall in love with each other.
1:25:46
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, you know that this is not a relationship that it's ever going to be a relationship.
1:25:50
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, they end up creating some sort of strange star-cost connection, and she decides to be helpful to him, you know, but it's never, they're never going to end up together.
1:26:01
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, like, assuming he, assuming Robert, I mean, there's no, there's no six days of the condor because probably Robert
1:26:08
[SPEAKER_11]: maybe doesn't survive.
1:26:09
[SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
1:26:11
[SPEAKER_10]: So now Faye Dunneway breaks into the C.I.
1:26:14
[SPEAKER_10]: doesn't break into the C.I.A.
1:26:15
[SPEAKER_10]: She kind of lies away into the C.I.A.
1:26:17
[SPEAKER_10]: gets a look at Higgins, marks him for Redford, follows him into a restaurant, sits down very confident.
1:26:23
[SPEAKER_10]: And she is really fun and charming in this moment, says this guy is waiting for you outside.
1:26:28
[SPEAKER_10]: Red, they go outside, Red for grabs him in the car, and they kidnap Higgins.
1:26:32
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:26:33
[SPEAKER_11]: Basically at this point, Robert Redford is well on his way to becoming a professional kidnapper.
1:26:38
[SPEAKER_10]: Still he's doing very well, he's pretty good at this one and we get a conversation between Higgins and Redford like on the, you know, near the water going over what's really going on.
1:26:49
[SPEAKER_16]: Get me in Higgins.
1:26:53
[SPEAKER_16]: What good would that do if you're right and they are inside?
1:26:55
[SPEAKER_16]: What good would it do to bring you in?
1:26:58
[SPEAKER_02]: What am I supposed to do?
1:27:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
1:27:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You're sorry.
1:27:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I get it.
1:27:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You expect me to draw a fire like one of those penny arcade bears that parades back and forth waiting for somebody Somebody's very good just to take another shot and you're just gonna hang around and pick them up before he does it or just after And try and find out what's going on.
1:27:22
[SPEAKER_16]: I'm gonna cross check all those names nice talking to you Higgins wait a minute.
1:27:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Have a nice day.
1:27:26
[SPEAKER_16]: Where you going?
1:27:26
[SPEAKER_16]: Where will I find you?
1:27:28
[SPEAKER_11]: I'll find you beautifully shot scene and then at that point
1:27:32
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, just a wax on how great looking Robert Redford is throughout this entire film.
1:27:37
[SPEAKER_11]: And he's in all these great little cool outfits that are not really quintessentially Redford, and it's sort of his geek, you know, with the tie tucked into this sweater, whatever.
1:27:45
[SPEAKER_11]: But once he gets this picoat from, you know, it sort of becomes this quintessential great spy look that he just rocks throughout the whole, you know, thing.
1:27:54
[SPEAKER_10]: And I noticed you've always had a nice dark picoat.
1:27:58
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure that if I'm sure that I became attracted to Peacots at a certain point because I saw Redford in this thing.
1:28:03
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm like, man, I want to look like Robert Redford.
1:28:07
[SPEAKER_10]: I don't have the hair, but I can have the Peacot.
1:28:09
[SPEAKER_10]: He does have nice hair.
1:28:10
[SPEAKER_10]: And in this Higgins confirms Cliff Robertson confirms that Max Fossita works with a company.
1:28:16
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:28:17
[SPEAKER_10]: And there's this, he thought we find out that Wix is dead.
1:28:20
[SPEAKER_10]: And there's just this moment where,
1:28:22
[SPEAKER_10]: Redford very vulnerabilities.
1:28:24
[SPEAKER_10]: What am I supposed to do?
1:28:25
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:28:26
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, and we're still in this place of can I come back in or can I not and then Cliff really just fucking kicks the table leg out from under or whatever by just saying like what good would it do for you to come in now if this thing that you're proposing exists exists like you're actually safe or out there on your own But you know like then to be inside which is
1:28:48
[SPEAKER_11]: Really deserving.
1:28:49
[SPEAKER_11]: What's his game here?
1:28:50
[SPEAKER_09]: Not red fruits.
1:28:51
[SPEAKER_09]: Hey, Higgins.
1:28:52
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it's Higgins game.
1:28:53
[SPEAKER_11]: That will keep right and then red for brings that up right it's like Maybe it's better for me to be the stalking horse for you guys to you know to flush out your bad guys.
1:29:01
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:29:02
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'm just a researcher, you know
1:29:04
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, and we don't, I mean, this is the thing with Higgins.
1:29:06
[SPEAKER_10]: We don't get to know.
1:29:07
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:29:07
[SPEAKER_10]: We don't, you know, because the whole time you're going, that must be Higgins in on it.
1:29:12
[SPEAKER_10]: It is, it is a must.
1:29:14
[SPEAKER_10]: You know, is he in on it or not in it?
1:29:15
[SPEAKER_10]: See, I'm revered side or not.
1:29:17
[SPEAKER_10]: And you can interpret it in either way throughout the whole moment.
1:29:20
[SPEAKER_10]: That's it.
1:29:20
[SPEAKER_11]: And there's a great line.
1:29:21
[SPEAKER_11]: They're so great at just suggesting, you know what I mean?
1:29:23
[SPEAKER_10]: Where?
1:29:24
[SPEAKER_10]: So, Bradford, you know, he has his phone skills.
1:29:28
[SPEAKER_10]: So he steals a little phone thing.
1:29:30
[SPEAKER_10]: He goes to a hardware store to find out where the key came from finds out it's from a holiday in.
1:29:35
[SPEAKER_10]: Go and get some phone.
1:29:35
[SPEAKER_11]: You have to trade.
1:29:36
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, it's great, too, like how do you know so much?
1:29:39
[SPEAKER_11]: I read it in a book, you know?
1:29:40
[SPEAKER_10]: And this is so great about it.
1:29:41
[SPEAKER_10]: It's easy, so smart, and so capable, gets on the switchboard, essentially taps into Joe Bears phone in the holiday end, records him calling someone.
1:29:51
[SPEAKER_10]: Thank God, we have touched on phones at this point.
1:29:53
[SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I guess you could have recorded the click, click, click, click of a rotary phone.
1:29:57
[SPEAKER_10]: Then calls the CIA, gets them to decode what the touched on phone is, calls a different number, gets them to find out what that number is, and now he knows where the bad guy is.
1:30:06
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:30:06
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and it's great spice stuff.
1:30:08
[SPEAKER_10]: Really fun.
1:30:09
[SPEAKER_11]: It's great.
1:30:09
[SPEAKER_11]: And I think it's such a fun celebration of smartness.
1:30:12
[SPEAKER_11]: And I think a really cool thing about Robert Redford in the 70s.
1:30:16
[SPEAKER_11]: It's interesting is that it's like John Wayne could not have done any of this stuff.
1:30:20
[SPEAKER_11]: You know what I mean?
1:30:21
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like in Redford, I think Redford is the movie star of the 1970s and he sort of sums up and he's everything that's good about the 70s male.
1:30:30
[SPEAKER_10]: Unfortunately, everyone's thinking about that.
1:30:32
[SPEAKER_11]: everyone trying to do that couldn't quite, but it's like because he's sensitive, you know, he's smart, but he's always still masculine, you know, I mean, and he's very liberal, you know, he fights for Native American, like he's sort of, he's not the biggest star in the 70s, by the way, box office wise.
1:30:47
[SPEAKER_10]: No, well he has a great right and he right at this point in the middle he's probably at his peak But I don't know if he makes it throughout the whole 70s, but look I love I love Redford It's funny because like I know Bert Reynolds, I think has the longest run as the top box office guy in the 70s and eastwoods actually Huge in terms of box office.
1:31:05
[SPEAKER_11]: It's true, but in terms of what you're saying I think kind of zeitgeist guy's for with the shift of what the 70s is kind of about I think Redford definitely personifies that serving and I also think it's what made
1:31:17
[SPEAKER_11]: his shift to the 80s awkward but then at the same time it's also he he so smartly in the 80s he became a director He started the Sundance Institute and he really didn't act for almost most of the the 80s except for out of Africa and just a you know A couple of films so he almost seems to sense the passing of the zeitgeist and he you know Let it pass you arguably Harrison Ford.
1:31:40
[SPEAKER_10]: You're right.
1:31:41
[SPEAKER_10]: Interesting
1:31:42
[SPEAKER_10]: So, he calls Higgins in, they try to trace the call, they can't do it, and now we see Redford's really, you know, taking control.
1:31:50
[SPEAKER_10]: And we find out that the guy is Leonard Atwood, and he knows where Leonard Atwood lives, and he's heading off to that, and we get to a train station, and there's a very nice little goodbye with Fade on a way.
1:32:01
[SPEAKER_07]: What are you going to do there?
1:32:05
[SPEAKER_05]: See you guys.
1:32:11
[SPEAKER_08]: Yes, someday I'd like to show them to you, if you live through this, you have a lot of very fine qualities.
1:32:26
[SPEAKER_03]: But fine qualities.
1:32:36
[SPEAKER_08]: You have good eyes.
1:32:41
[SPEAKER_08]: Not crying, but they don't lie, they don't look away much, and they don't miss anything.
1:32:53
[SPEAKER_08]: I could use a house like that.
1:32:55
[SPEAKER_10]: And this is where, as you say, these are star-cross lovers.
1:32:58
[SPEAKER_10]: And it is very clear, like, oh, yeah, this can't work.
1:33:00
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:33:00
[SPEAKER_11]: And even she, like, I still think, I mean, I think she even articulates it.
1:33:05
[SPEAKER_11]: Your odds of survival still at this point are extremely low.
1:33:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Like, I worry about her odds of survival.
1:33:11
[SPEAKER_11]: They're not greedy, they're she's, he is tainted them.
1:33:14
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:33:15
[SPEAKER_10]: And then we go back, and there's this really kind of after he gets off the phone with Higgins, we have Higgins and John Hausman.
1:33:21
[SPEAKER_10]: And they talk about the CIA.
1:33:25
[SPEAKER_11]: Why aren't you father along in the company?
1:33:27
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, like, there's a moment where Cliff Robertson and him are along, and he sort of lists some of, you know, Robertson's achievements or Higgins achievements, and then it's kind of like, why aren't you father along?
1:33:37
[SPEAKER_11]: And you kind of get the impression that it's maybe Higgins is actually a little bit too much of a good guide to me, father along, you know?
1:33:43
[SPEAKER_11]: But then there's that great line too of when he talks about, you know, Houseman talks about his bona fides, where he was in the Great War.
1:33:55
[SPEAKER_14]: Let's be used to call it poor, and you enough to number them.
1:34:01
[SPEAKER_16]: You missed that kind of actions here.
1:34:03
[SPEAKER_14]: No.
1:34:06
[SPEAKER_14]: I missed that kind of clarity.
1:34:08
[SPEAKER_11]: I missed that kind of clarity.
1:34:10
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, which is like that's a great line.
1:34:12
[SPEAKER_11]: It's sort of speaking for everybody at that point too, you know?
1:34:15
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, in that discussion, we're in a very unclear circumstance.
1:34:20
[SPEAKER_10]: We don't know who...
1:34:22
[SPEAKER_10]: Condor is, we don't know why these people were killed, and we don't know what role Higgins and Wix and what we know at Wix did.
1:34:29
[SPEAKER_10]: We don't know what how a houseman really feels about any of these things.
1:34:32
[SPEAKER_10]: And one of the interesting things about that scene is we never get to know exactly like a houseman says something like, you're comfortable with what we're about to do.
1:34:40
[SPEAKER_10]: But we don't get to know what exactly that is.
1:34:43
[SPEAKER_11]: what their intentions are.
1:34:44
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
1:34:44
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:34:45
[SPEAKER_10]: Is it for going to help out Condor or is it going to kill him?
1:34:48
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:34:48
[SPEAKER_10]: And we don't really know.
1:34:50
[SPEAKER_10]: Condor shows up at some fancy house and puts on some loud music.
1:34:55
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:34:55
[SPEAKER_10]: Outcomes this older and just funny about that loud music.
1:34:58
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, that's like this very 70s Funkadelic.
1:35:00
[SPEAKER_11]: The lyrics are because I got you just where I want you.
1:35:05
[SPEAKER_11]: And I want you just where I got you know, which definitely, you know, plays into what's and I don't know if that's just serendipitous or No, nothing's in a moment.
1:35:16
[SPEAKER_10]: No, they picked that song.
1:35:17
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's that and down comes this guy and Redford puts him in the chair and it's in this moment although he's asking me questions the guy doesn't answer and Redford figures out what it's all about which is it's all about oil This operations care about a bunch of goddamn books a book in touch
1:35:36
[SPEAKER_02]: a book out of Venezuela.
1:35:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Mystery stories in Arabic.
1:35:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, what the hell is so important about... Oilfield.
1:35:47
[SPEAKER_10]: Yep.
1:35:48
[SPEAKER_10]: Strangely enough, this still seems to be a thing.
1:35:50
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:35:51
[SPEAKER_10]: And what's really scary about it is that, you know, they're talking about the CIA's plans to overthrow, invade, or destabilize governments in the Middle East, and in Venezuela, so another interesting one in order to claim their oil fields.
1:36:05
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's like, huh, interesting.
1:36:07
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:36:07
[SPEAKER_11]: Where have we heard that before?
1:36:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:36:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Uh, definitely, definitely something that has been,
1:36:13
[SPEAKER_10]: There's come up, since 1975, and just as he's figuring that out, who should walk in, but are good friend Max von Siden.
1:36:22
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:36:23
[SPEAKER_13]: Don't turn for a moment, put your thumb in front of the hammer.
1:36:27
[SPEAKER_10]: He's a scary villain.
1:36:29
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and it's the calmness of him that makes him so scary.
1:36:32
[SPEAKER_10]: His charm, the dignity, dignity of his voice and seat-out walks past Redford goes stands right next to Atwood and takes the gun and very, very unexpectedly shoots him in the head.
1:36:47
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and makes it look like a suicide.
1:36:49
[SPEAKER_10]: And there's this moment where we think he's going to kill Redford.
1:36:52
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but he doesn't.
1:36:54
[SPEAKER_10]: No.
1:36:54
[SPEAKER_11]: In reference performance is greater than that moment, too.
1:36:56
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, wait, is this over?
1:36:57
[SPEAKER_11]: Is this not over what's happening?
1:36:59
[SPEAKER_09]: I love that.
1:36:59
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, this is the surprise.
1:37:01
[SPEAKER_09]: And then how he starts to question it.
1:37:03
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
1:37:03
[SPEAKER_09]: Did you put your finger prints or your hands on anything else besides anything?
1:37:07
[SPEAKER_09]: Like, it refers like thinking on the spot.
1:37:09
[SPEAKER_09]: I, you know, I don't, I don't know.
1:37:10
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't think so, Boba.
1:37:11
[SPEAKER_09]: And he just calmly talks to him as he's cleaning up his ink, because this is nothing new for him.
1:37:15
[SPEAKER_09]: Right.
1:37:16
[SPEAKER_09]: And because I'm not here for you right now.
1:37:18
[SPEAKER_09]: Right, right.
1:37:19
[SPEAKER_09]: But I love him.
1:37:19
[SPEAKER_09]: And when he says, are you coming back in?
1:37:20
[SPEAKER_09]: Did they brought you back in?
1:37:21
[SPEAKER_09]: They brought you back to the company brought you back.
1:37:23
[SPEAKER_11]: Just for this.
1:37:25
[SPEAKER_11]: But I love to that when you first said about questioning, I realized, again, Redford can't turn that brain off.
1:37:31
[SPEAKER_11]: Like the smart play is just like be quiet and let him leave or whatever, but he's too interested in the guy.
1:37:36
[SPEAKER_11]: Like he's asking him questions about stuff, you know.
1:37:39
[SPEAKER_09]: And even when he talks about his job, this is a job, this is my job.
1:37:44
[SPEAKER_09]: I am good at my job.
1:37:45
[SPEAKER_09]: Like there's no shame in what he does.
1:37:47
[SPEAKER_09]: And it's just very pure.
1:37:49
[SPEAKER_09]: And so even when Robin Redford's like questioning about it,
1:37:53
[SPEAKER_13]: But what I do is not a bad occupation.
1:37:57
[SPEAKER_13]: But someone is always willing to pay.
1:38:00
[SPEAKER_13]: I would find it tiring.
1:38:05
[SPEAKER_13]: On all, it's quite stressful.
1:38:07
[SPEAKER_13]: It's almost peaceful.
1:38:09
[SPEAKER_13]: No need to believe in either side or any side.
1:38:13
[SPEAKER_13]: There is no cause.
1:38:14
[SPEAKER_13]: There's only yourself.
1:38:18
[SPEAKER_13]: The belief is in your own precision.
1:38:20
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
1:38:21
[SPEAKER_11]: He has a code.
1:38:21
[SPEAKER_11]: He has a very clear code by which he has fit, you know, and that in a way going freelance allowed him to have a cleaner code, then when he was fighting for one side or the other side because it's always seems like the stuff is shifting, you know, like when you're.
1:38:36
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, well, if you're fighting for this guy, it's okay to do this really terrible stuff in the name of this.
1:38:40
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, well, now he only does what feels comfortable to him in his code.
1:38:44
[SPEAKER_11]: Which is, so that it's so strange that, so, you know, Redford gets this buy.
1:38:48
[SPEAKER_11]: Because it's a well look, I had a deal with the dead guy.
1:38:51
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
1:38:51
[SPEAKER_11]: So now, you know, a death, you know, makes the deal.
1:38:54
[SPEAKER_11]: Now, someone else with a different code, maybe you would have had the, oh, well, I mean, the deal, even though the guy's dead, I still have to honor it.
1:38:59
[SPEAKER_11]: But in Joe Varys world, if the guy's dead, that, you know, nullifies the code.
1:39:04
[SPEAKER_11]: And I love there's that there's so many that last scene between the two of them That's a lot of why you do the movie if you're a actor to some degree There's so many great lines in it But one of them I love is when he's Europe You know, I think you'd be safer in Europe and he's like I was born in the United States so pair I miss it if I'm gone too long later It's like but that's still kind of sad plaintive patriotism that we're in the 70s I think that's this thing too like you
1:39:28
[SPEAKER_11]: fuckers messed up our country you know what I mean like but I still love it and I still believe in it you know like like he can't just abandon the U.S.
1:39:36
[SPEAKER_11]: even though at this point the U.S.
1:39:37
[SPEAKER_09]: is kind of a band in him Yeah But you think in that moment when he's talking about Europe that Joe Barris offering him a job come work with me in Europe I think I think he's telling him this is what you can escape to because as a professional courtesy because you've escaped this far You've gotten this far again someone like me, but it's he's saying be like me you could be like me
1:39:54
[SPEAKER_09]: I think he's saying you can escape.
1:39:56
[SPEAKER_09]: This is where you can escape.
1:39:56
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, I definitely think that John is right, but I think Steve's idea is a very interesting one.
1:40:02
[SPEAKER_11]: And I almost think if Condor showed an interest, I almost think show Bear would be like, sure, I'll shoot.
1:40:09
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, it's funny when he says Europe.
1:40:10
[SPEAKER_11]: This may be that, what's that great film?
1:40:12
[SPEAKER_11]: What's not great?
1:40:13
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a really good film that a Clooney movie, The American.
1:40:15
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I like that movie.
1:40:17
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, he starts in Sweden and then he ends up in Italy and stuff, but I was always laughing thinking like, you know, when it always make the most sense if you're American to hide out someplace in America, because if you're, if you're the only, like, say, in born, I didn't even, but if you're the American in India or, you know, Wellington, New Zealand or whatever, like, if you're not doing the accent, you know, like you stand out.
1:40:37
[SPEAKER_11]: You're good.
1:40:37
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's like.
1:40:38
[SPEAKER_11]: And especially like George Clooney like, oh, you're in a small town in Italy, like, no, the priest come at you.
1:40:43
[SPEAKER_11]: You, you, you definitely.
1:40:44
[SPEAKER_11]: So it always seems like it would make sense of like, oh, you know, Steve Steve's from Marin, probably he should just like hide out and bidega bay.
1:40:52
[SPEAKER_11]: Like it's, you know, nice place.
1:40:53
[SPEAKER_11]: It's, you know, it's like where are you familiar?
1:40:56
[SPEAKER_11]: Where will, where will you not stand out a place that you seem like you're only about 20 minutes away from?
1:41:00
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
1:41:00
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, I,
1:41:01
[SPEAKER_09]: I think Oliver Stone was influenced by this scene when he had that scene in JFK with Donald Sutherland coming out and giving cost to the whole Tony Vignette on the bench like I thought that this is his his kind of like homage to three days at the condor because it has that same kind of idea of a shadow, you know, yeah, explanation.
1:41:21
[SPEAKER_10]: I'm just a professional doing this thing.
1:41:23
[SPEAKER_10]: He's wearing the trench coat.
1:41:24
[SPEAKER_09]: It's all there and he's trying to help him because he's telling him
1:41:28
[SPEAKER_09]: Go for it or don't, right?
1:41:30
[SPEAKER_09]: You've got two choices, right?
1:41:32
[SPEAKER_09]: And I feel like Joe Bear said it's anything to him.
1:41:33
[SPEAKER_09]: He's saying, you can go to Europe.
1:41:35
[SPEAKER_09]: Maybe stay here.
1:41:36
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what's gonna happen.
1:41:38
[SPEAKER_11]: That's a little thing.
1:41:39
[SPEAKER_11]: Joe Bear's outfit, like, there's really great costume design in this film.
1:41:43
[SPEAKER_09]: It's very, it's true.
1:41:44
[SPEAKER_11]: And what's interesting, I get Bernie Pollock is Cindy Pollock's brother.
1:41:48
[SPEAKER_11]: He's in the wardrobe department on this.
1:41:49
[SPEAKER_11]: And he ended up going on to be the costume designer in a lot of Pollock's movies and stuff.
1:41:54
[SPEAKER_11]: But I think Joe Bear has a real outfit.
1:41:58
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, I mean, like, it becomes kind of a uniform red for does, you know, Robertson Scott, like the next level of like what reference wearing he's got the ferns, you know, like the man's a great jacket.
1:42:09
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:42:09
[SPEAKER_11]: If they don't always outfits are really cool, they're understated compared to some of the other stuff that she's done, but it's like,
1:42:15
[SPEAKER_11]: But everyone's costumes, I think, are it's just their great little character indicative stuff, even the girlfriend at the beginning and her little yellow shirt and the black pants and stuff, everyone's got a great, you know, it tells a lot of story.
1:42:27
[SPEAKER_10]: So we have our final moment with Joe Bear, which is,
1:42:30
[SPEAKER_10]: It's sort of Louis.
1:42:31
[SPEAKER_10]: This is the beginning of one of our friends, but there's this weird sort of nice friendly conversation Yeah, and then what do we do?
1:42:38
[SPEAKER_10]: We go find Higgins on the street and Redford walks behind him with a gun sends the the car way and we're still at this moment of Is he gonna go in?
1:42:48
[SPEAKER_11]: Well because he's gonna the cool the offering of the car literally show bears it.
1:42:51
[SPEAKER_11]: It would happen like this.
1:42:53
[SPEAKER_11]: It would happen this way You're maybe walking
1:42:59
[SPEAKER_13]: may be the first son of the day of the spring and the car will slow beside you and the door will open and someone you know may be even dressed will get out of the car and he will smile and becoming smile but he will leave open the door of the car and offer
1:43:27
[SPEAKER_10]: like he's actually born to him like someone will say hey come get in the car so he's not gonna get in a car right after that you know yeah any any walks with him and they have this great conversation there's this line in it that I just absolutely love which is it seems like you think that not getting the car and alize the same thing is telling the truth yeah
1:43:46
[SPEAKER_11]: It's interesting thing about this line, which is such a great line.
1:43:50
[SPEAKER_11]: This line appears in three of his movies, for some reason.
1:43:53
[SPEAKER_11]: I think it's mentioned in absence of mouse, and I think it's mentioned in the interpreter, the final one.
1:43:57
[SPEAKER_11]: So obviously, I can't imagine that Pollock doesn't know it.
1:44:03
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, on some level, he clearly must be a deeply held belief on some level.
1:44:07
[SPEAKER_11]: If it's literally like, hey, here's a message I believe it.
1:44:10
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to put it in three of my 20 films.
1:44:12
[SPEAKER_09]: This is my favorite scene in the movie.
1:44:14
[SPEAKER_09]: It's a great scene.
1:44:16
[SPEAKER_09]: It's just two actors at the top of their game having a conversation and then being honest about it.
1:44:24
[SPEAKER_16]: We have plans to invade the Middle East.
1:44:28
[SPEAKER_16]: Are you crazy?
1:44:29
[SPEAKER_16]: Am I?
1:44:30
[SPEAKER_16]: Look, turn up.
1:44:31
[SPEAKER_16]: Do we have plans?
1:44:32
[SPEAKER_16]: No.
1:44:33
[SPEAKER_16]: Absolutely not.
1:44:35
[SPEAKER_16]: We have games.
1:44:36
[SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
1:44:38
[SPEAKER_16]: We play games.
1:44:39
[SPEAKER_16]: What if?
1:44:40
[SPEAKER_16]: How many men?
1:44:42
[SPEAKER_16]: What would it take?
1:44:43
[SPEAKER_16]: Is there a cheaper way to destabilize a regime?
1:44:46
[SPEAKER_16]: That's what I paid to do.
1:44:49
[SPEAKER_16]: Back to Israel, another one with the plan.
1:44:52
[SPEAKER_16]: Well, the plan was all right.
1:44:53
[SPEAKER_16]: The plan would have worked.
1:44:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Boy, what is it with you, Pete?
1:45:00
[SPEAKER_03]: You think not getting caught on the lie as the same thing is telling the truth?
1:45:03
[SPEAKER_16]: No.
1:45:04
[SPEAKER_16]: It's simple economics.
1:45:06
[SPEAKER_16]: Today, it's oil, right?
1:45:12
[SPEAKER_16]: maybe even sooner.
1:45:13
[SPEAKER_16]: Now, what do you think the people are going to want us to do then?
1:45:18
[SPEAKER_16]: Ask them.
1:45:19
[SPEAKER_16]: Not now.
1:45:19
[SPEAKER_16]: Then, ask them when they're running out.
1:45:22
[SPEAKER_16]: Ask them when there's no heat in their homes in their coal.
1:45:25
[SPEAKER_16]: Ask them when they're engine stop.
1:45:27
[SPEAKER_16]: Ask them when people who've never known hunger start going hungry.
1:45:30
[SPEAKER_16]: Do you want to know something?
1:45:32
[SPEAKER_16]: They won't want us to ask them.
1:45:33
[SPEAKER_16]: They don't just want us to get it for.
1:45:36
[SPEAKER_09]: We are thinking ahead.
1:45:38
[SPEAKER_09]: And you can almost accept the logic of Cliff Robertson because he's saying, no one's gonna give him a fuck how we get him food or oil when they're running out, when they don't have it.
1:45:47
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a very reasonable argument for, I mean, and what I love is that they've, they've said, look, Cliff Robertson, you are as good a man as you know how to be in the choices that you've made in your life and what you're doing.
1:45:58
[SPEAKER_11]: And I want you to defend this position, honestly, don't put any sauce on it like where you're making a judgment on the character.
1:46:07
[SPEAKER_11]: In what he's doing he sometimes doesn't like what he what the things that happen in the name of doing this But I think he they both articulate their points really really well Absolutely, but and this is sort of like a you can't handle the truth moment.
1:46:20
[SPEAKER_10]: It's like it's like he's saying look This is the real world.
1:46:23
[SPEAKER_10]: This is what's happening.
1:46:24
[SPEAKER_11]: That's what's a shitty what if they don't what if they don't print it that's the moment
1:46:28
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, okay, so hold on let's let's get it.
1:46:30
[SPEAKER_10]: We had to start out that one as Bill's just skip the head of your stuff Yeah, so I'm already so because we're sick cuz Cuz Redford is in this trap and throughout this whole movie the question in the trap.
1:46:40
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you can't go back.
1:46:42
[SPEAKER_10]: You can't look back.
1:46:43
[SPEAKER_11]: You can't you can't walk out no
1:46:46
[SPEAKER_10]: Because I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love doing this, I love
1:47:05
[SPEAKER_10]: doomed either way, and he's walked along and he says, they have the story now, and where are we standing?
1:47:11
[SPEAKER_10]: We're standing in front of the New York Times.
1:47:13
[SPEAKER_10]: And we realize that he is given the whole story to the press.
1:47:18
[SPEAKER_10]: And Higgins' reaction which I love is, oh you, you've
1:47:31
[SPEAKER_16]: I hope so.
1:47:32
[SPEAKER_11]: That's actually seems the most emotionally affected at Cliff Robertson has been in the entire film.
1:47:37
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
1:47:37
[SPEAKER_11]: Is in that level of disappointment, you know, I don't know, there's a lot of emotions going on there.
1:47:42
[SPEAKER_09]: But I think that's why it's my favorite.
1:47:44
[SPEAKER_09]: I've worked at, you know, because I was in military intelligence for eight years in the army.
1:47:47
[SPEAKER_09]: So for me, this whole scene has multiple levels going on, right?
1:47:51
[SPEAKER_09]: Because, hey, they both do a great job defending each other's point of view.
1:47:55
[SPEAKER_09]: for the debate, right?
1:47:57
[SPEAKER_09]: Cause read first from a place of being right.
1:47:59
[SPEAKER_09]: And I'm gonna expose you, but Cliff Robertson is saying, you stupid son of a bitch, you don't know the ramifications of what you're doing.
1:48:07
[SPEAKER_09]: By undercutting this establishment,
1:48:11
[SPEAKER_09]: You're gonna disestablish, what do you call it, you're gonna destabilize, destabilize, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna possibly destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country, you're gonna destabilize the country,
1:48:37
[SPEAKER_09]: because Robert Redford thinks he's walking away sank demoniously like a left wing liberal sank demon is I got you, you conservative bad person, right?
1:48:44
[SPEAKER_09]: But then he turns it around and says to him, how do you know they're gonna print it?
1:48:49
[SPEAKER_09]: How do you know they're gonna, and it's stop, and I'd love Redford's reaction because it's subtle, it's not big, it's subtle, it's like, fuck I hadn't thought of that.
1:48:57
[SPEAKER_11]: Shit and then it's free frame and free frame and boot we're done And we're here that god bless you Mary Gentlemen has been playing all that whole time he's free frame in the salvation army people it's such a It's it there's it's something it's I think it's why it's part of this classic of these movies of this time because it's so ambiguous And it but it's interesting it shows this growth that we're gonna head toward with the 80s of this kind of jingo Wistic like hey, it's all gonna be okay because in the year before in the parallax view
1:49:24
[SPEAKER_11]: things do not end well, you know, I just, I won't, I won't spoil her, but things don't end well.
1:49:29
[SPEAKER_11]: And this movie, it's this super 70s ambiguity, and then next year with all the president's men, things kind of do end well in, I mean, in that the good guys kind of win in that they out the bad guy and stuff, you know.
1:49:42
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, this is, and you said it just right, it's like, I was thinking about this a lot, is that?
1:49:46
[SPEAKER_11]: And then I think 77 is Star Wars.
1:49:47
[SPEAKER_10]: You know, everything's okay.
1:49:49
[SPEAKER_10]: It's the big thing that differentiates this era and film is ambiguity.
1:49:53
[SPEAKER_10]: By the time we get to the 80s, when you get to Star Wars, there are good guys that are bad guys.
1:49:57
[SPEAKER_10]: And we know who they are, and that's it.
1:49:59
[SPEAKER_10]: At the end of this movie, you don't get to know.
1:50:02
[SPEAKER_10]: First of all, we don't get to, I don't know if Higgins was in on it, but was going to kill Redford.
1:50:08
[SPEAKER_10]: That's the first thing I don't know.
1:50:09
[SPEAKER_10]: And then I don't know if the New York Times is going to print this, and I don't know if that means that their control that the CIA is going to stop them.
1:50:16
[SPEAKER_10]: And then I don't know when he says you dump son of a bitch, you've done more than you know.
1:50:20
[SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what that means.
1:50:21
[SPEAKER_10]: Maybe this is going to really hurt all sorts of people.
1:50:25
[SPEAKER_10]: And then we have this freeze frame.
1:50:26
[SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what's going to happen to Robert Redford.
1:50:27
[SPEAKER_10]: Right.
1:50:28
[SPEAKER_10]: You know.
1:50:28
[SPEAKER_11]: And then it's what's rough on the 70s, too, is that, you know, this is that time where you got most of your credits in the beginning of the movie.
1:50:35
[SPEAKER_11]: So there's not a lot of credits before when you're still in that moment and then you're, you know, see the technical are simple and you're out.
1:50:41
[SPEAKER_11]: You're like, oh, I don't even have five minutes of rolling credits to kind of get used to this feeling, you know.
1:50:46
[SPEAKER_11]: no and even with the relationship with fade down away yeah there's a lot of ambiguity there too well i think you you know it's like somehow as we got to the end of the 70s and into the 80s for whatever reason right that ambiguity was no longer acceptable and what's it's absence of malice which comes out in eighty one you know it's Paul Newman it's celly field it's about journalistic ethics and all this stuff
1:51:04
[SPEAKER_11]: And it literally ends with a deos as mocking of Wilford Brimley who's never been in the entire film comes in and basically just kind of he stands in for the U.S.
1:51:12
[SPEAKER_11]: government justice department and he kind of wags his finger at all the people that need to have their fingers wag that makes our Paul Newman good guy okay and watching that film again it was just sort of it made me sad about a how far we fall in terms of journalistic ethics like that's not even
1:51:27
[SPEAKER_11]: almost a thing that can be talked about in a giant quarter of our country.
1:51:31
[SPEAKER_11]: But also just the fact that we're like, wow, even just in the six years between three days and absence of mouse, you moved like ambiguity was no longer a thing that was acceptable, you know.
1:51:41
[SPEAKER_09]: But what I think I love about the scene too is that it promotes the middle ground that there has to
1:51:45
[SPEAKER_09]: there is there is the middle ground is where the reality is where both sides defend their extreme points of use here, but the middle ground is where it's where we operate best we're supposed to be better as a country of operating in the middle ground.
1:51:58
[SPEAKER_09]: And I love that, you know, I absolutely love that.
1:52:00
[SPEAKER_09]: And for me, you're left with the idea of
1:52:03
[SPEAKER_09]: How long is he gonna stay alive for real?
1:52:05
[SPEAKER_09]: Like I don't think I don't think forever, you know?
1:52:07
[SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if he makes it to six days.
1:52:09
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I guess.
1:52:11
[SPEAKER_11]: I would, I think it's six months of the condor or something like that.
1:52:14
[SPEAKER_11]: He, he kidnapped another girl.
1:52:16
[SPEAKER_11]: She's not, I don't know.
1:52:18
[SPEAKER_09]: I would have loved to have seen a possible sequel to this like,
1:52:22
[SPEAKER_11]: I think they're developing a series, which I heard, which I think is a smart idea if you kind of, and then I heard someone say like the smartest way to do would be almost do it like 24 where you have it happen in a much shorter time train, you know, or something.
1:52:36
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, I think
1:52:37
[SPEAKER_09]: You could do it because like a conversation, like enemy of the state is essentially an unrecognized sequel to the conversation.
1:52:43
[SPEAKER_09]: Right.
1:52:43
[SPEAKER_09]: Right.
1:52:44
[SPEAKER_09]: Right.
1:52:44
[SPEAKER_09]: This is a gene hack when coming back.
1:52:45
[SPEAKER_11]: One that there's a spy game is a bit of this to accept.
1:52:50
[SPEAKER_11]: It's almost like if Cliff Robertson's character is Robert Red for instance, you know, you don't imagine him coming back in.
1:52:56
[SPEAKER_11]: But actually, you know, I mean, he could come back in a year or two later, they could bring him in.
1:53:02
[SPEAKER_09]: If the regime changes or what, but we're not going to listen to the director, yeah, absolutely.
1:53:05
[SPEAKER_10]: John.
1:53:06
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
1:53:06
[SPEAKER_10]: What are your final thoughts on three days of the condor?
1:53:08
[SPEAKER_09]: I think this is a fantastic film to explore.
1:53:11
[SPEAKER_09]: It's not what I would watch all the time, but certainly every few years, it's a fun one to explore because, no matter how far away we get from it, these arguments still apply.
1:53:20
[SPEAKER_09]: These ideas of like, Crepe Robertson says at the end, if it's not oil, it's going to be something else.
1:53:26
[SPEAKER_09]: because it will be always something else and there will always be people who believe the way Cliff Robertson does is the way to function.
1:53:32
[SPEAKER_09]: By the way, I love the fact that he is reminiscent of the Cold War, right?
1:53:35
[SPEAKER_09]: That's what we talk about.
1:53:36
[SPEAKER_09]: Versus Robert Redford's newer approach, right?
1:53:38
[SPEAKER_09]: It also symbolizes what was happening in the 60s and 70s.
1:53:41
[SPEAKER_09]: I do have don't trust anyone over 30, right?
1:53:43
[SPEAKER_09]: It's all and it still applies nowadays, you know, when people are too set in their ways from another time.
1:53:49
[SPEAKER_09]: They have a hard time transitioning into newer ways of doing things.
1:53:52
[SPEAKER_09]: And I think what this film does is highlight that and explore that.
1:53:55
[SPEAKER_09]: It does challenge you too with that relationship with Faye Dunno way.
1:53:58
[SPEAKER_09]: But I think what you're seeing here is Robert Redford basically in the prime of his career as an actor.
1:54:03
[SPEAKER_09]: 39 years old, really having all his tools available to him and using them effectively to convey multiple levels in scenes, complexities,
1:54:13
[SPEAKER_09]: within his own acting, within his own exchanges with characters on the screen, and Max von Sito, one of the, no one talks about this guy as a villain as one of the best villains in the film.
1:54:21
[SPEAKER_09]: And when you see him, he is just fantastic.
1:54:24
[SPEAKER_09]: I think you can get the professional off this guy.
1:54:26
[SPEAKER_09]: I think there's a number of villains that come after this film that can be modeled on Joe Barr.
1:54:30
[SPEAKER_09]: And so to me, all around one of the best, these types of 70s kind of questioning the government questioningly say I ate type of films that has ever been made in Sydney, Polyg, it's just a master class and directing from beginning to end.
1:54:43
[SPEAKER_11]: That's, that's some professional final thoughts that I got to just say I gotta give you a shot I'm like, that's impressive.
1:54:49
[SPEAKER_11]: You're not, you're been, you are a professional.
1:54:51
[SPEAKER_11]: That was a special final level thought.
1:54:52
[SPEAKER_11]: You sure you have to do that?
1:54:54
[SPEAKER_11]: No, it was beautiful.
1:54:54
[SPEAKER_11]: I just, you know, we can cut that out, but it's like, that was some professional level final thought.
1:54:58
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I love this movie.
1:55:00
[SPEAKER_11]: I, I love it, irrationally, you know, in the way that like, you know, the, you know, the way that you love like, like, a guilty pleasure movie, you know, like, I love hard target.
1:55:09
[SPEAKER_11]: That is not a defensible movie.
1:55:11
[SPEAKER_11]: but I love it.
1:55:12
[SPEAKER_09]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:13
[SPEAKER_09]: It's true.
1:55:13
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little thing.
1:55:13
[SPEAKER_09]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:14
[SPEAKER_09]: It's true.
1:55:14
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:15
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:15
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:16
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:17
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:18
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:18
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:19
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:20
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:20
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:21
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:22
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:23
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:23
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:24
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:25
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:25
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:26
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:26
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:27
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:28
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:29
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:30
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:30
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:31
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:32
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little movie.
1:55:32
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun little
1:55:33
[SPEAKER_11]: There's a character that kind of looks like raw refer there's a character that kind of looks like Peter O'Toole like I kind of picked each of my favorite deck I decade icons, you know, but I love spy movies and I'm a huge James Bond fan and I love the fantasy spy stuff, but the real spy stuff, especially 70 spy stuff during the height of the Cold War and now there's no Russia in this movie or whatever, but I just think it's it there's like a
1:55:58
[SPEAKER_11]: It's Sidney Pollock at the top of his game on the way up, you know what I mean like when you're on the upward rise It's gonna culminate in him winning the Oscar on out of Africa.
1:56:07
[SPEAKER_11]: It's it's Robert Redford at Probably his peak like he's he's 39.
1:56:12
[SPEAKER_11]: He's at the end of being a young man, but he's not an old guy You know, and he's gonna go on to do some great stuff and then like out of Africa's kind of his last on the way out before he can't be a leading man in the same way It wasn't anymore
1:56:24
[SPEAKER_11]: So, and they're two close friends making a great movie together when they're kind of at the height of their powers, but they're using their powers for good.
1:56:31
[SPEAKER_11]: We know about so many stories where either movie stars or directors like over-indulge or do all this kind of stuff.
1:56:38
[SPEAKER_11]: It's actually Pollock's first time.
1:56:39
[SPEAKER_11]: He's not listed, but he starts producing the movies with this one because he starts realizing how important of a thing that is.
1:56:46
[SPEAKER_11]: And I just, I don't know, Jeremiah Johnson, like all these movies that these guys do together, just I have a soft spot for fade on away, spies, trench coats, like it's kind of got it all.
1:56:57
[SPEAKER_11]: Max van Cito, so the guy wrote the screenplay.
1:57:01
[SPEAKER_11]: He also worked on Batman's the original Batman 66, and he wrote the screenplay for Flash Gordon.
1:57:07
[SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
1:57:09
[SPEAKER_11]: So it's anti-wrote the parallax few things, but so it's just a great combination of pieces that I love, you know?
1:57:15
[SPEAKER_11]: So I don't know, I have a soft spot for this movie.
1:57:17
[SPEAKER_11]: I think people do think of it as a minor classic, but for me it's a major classic.
1:57:21
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
1:57:22
[SPEAKER_10]: For me, it's funny.
1:57:24
[SPEAKER_10]: First of all, on a filmmaking level, this is an extremely well-crafted movie.
1:57:28
[SPEAKER_10]: It is extremely intelligent.
1:57:30
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's so, it's attention to detail and its performances is so good.
1:57:35
[SPEAKER_10]: So just for watching a good spy thriller and watching this smart character of Condor figure his way through these problems.
1:57:42
[SPEAKER_10]: It's a lot of fun.
1:57:44
[SPEAKER_10]: But it's these other levels to the film that really make it something more.
1:57:48
[SPEAKER_10]: And the thing that I kept thinking about was that any time you have an organization, that organization might have some kind of goal.
1:57:54
[SPEAKER_10]: And you know, whether it's, we're trying to make a movie or trying to build a product, or we're trying to protect intelligence in the United States.
1:58:01
[SPEAKER_10]: But,
1:58:02
[SPEAKER_10]: one of the things that in order to achieve that goal, it has to protect its own survival.
1:58:06
[SPEAKER_10]: And so, and sometimes the desire to protect the survival, that becomes all you're working for.
1:58:13
[SPEAKER_10]: And we see this in a lot of different places, including, I would say, political parties today, and certainly we're seeing the embattled intelligence communities trying to protect themselves.
1:58:22
[SPEAKER_10]: and it becomes very hard if you've ever been in the middle of trying to protect your survival to hold on to the actual values and reasons that you've started in the first place and all of the work that you're doing might supersede your own values because all you're doing is fighting for survival.
1:58:38
[SPEAKER_10]: In fact, you might reverse yourself,
1:58:39
[SPEAKER_10]: And do things that you are morally reprehensible and work exactly against your goal in order to keep the thing alive that was supposed to achieve your goal And you definitely see it not only with the CIA in this movie, but you see it with Robert Redford and his treatment of faith done away and some of the choices he makes are in order to survive He starts doing things that he would never have done before and so that's something I was just thinking about a lot when I watched the film and it's why this movie sort of resonates is
1:59:07
[SPEAKER_10]: untangling that puzzle of what is acceptable and at what point have we gone too far when we have become the enemy that we despise?
1:59:15
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's interesting that in some ways the clearest moral code in the film is the guy who abandons all of that fighting for the thing, you know, Joe Bear who he just has his own little morality that he feels totally okay with and clean with, even though he's a professional killer.
1:59:30
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's a morality devoid of what we would consider
1:59:37
[SPEAKER_10]: So, that's what we think of three days of Condor.
1:59:39
[SPEAKER_10]: Of course, we would like to hear what you think.
1:59:41
[SPEAKER_10]: You can visit us on Facebook at the Cinephile CINee-FILES.
1:59:45
[SPEAKER_10]: Subscribe to us on Stitcher, subscribe to us on YouTube, subscribe to us on iTunes, and while you're on iTunes, leave a review.
1:59:52
[SPEAKER_10]: Does it sound like I'm ordering you what to do?
1:59:54
[SPEAKER_10]: It's because a little bit I am.
1:59:56
[SPEAKER_10]: That's the kind of, I'm feel this movie made me feel very bossy, I think, yeah, and just this movie, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
2:00:12
[SPEAKER_10]: So, and by the time you hear this, we will have launched our Patreon page, which is a great opportunity for you to support the show.
2:00:19
[SPEAKER_10]: There are a lot of different levels that you could subscribe.
2:00:22
[SPEAKER_10]: It definitely is going to help us keep going and they're really, really great perks you get for subscribing to the show.
2:00:28
[SPEAKER_10]: So, if you want to become an official
2:00:39
[SPEAKER_10]: And as always, you can reach me at S.R.
2:00:41
[SPEAKER_10]: Morris on Twitter, the John Murphy on the Retreat.
2:00:43
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, they can always reach me.
2:00:44
[SPEAKER_09]: You guys can always reach me at the Roca says, our OCHA on Twitter and on Instagram.
2:00:49
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, every Friday at 10 a.m.
2:00:51
[SPEAKER_09]: on Collider Movie Talk, also the Outlaw Nation podcast launched on the Schmows No Plus podcast channel.
2:00:58
[SPEAKER_09]: You guys have been fantastic with those comments, so thanks so much for still listening to the show.
2:01:03
[SPEAKER_09]: We have a lot of amazing guests coming through as well.
2:01:08
[SPEAKER_09]: then announcement will have been made about the future of the top 10 show that's been being discussed recently and the talks have been increasing in speed so I'm so excited about that thank you and I wait we'll see what happened really missing it thank you and Steve can they reach you on the social networks
2:01:27
[SPEAKER_11]: You can, I am Stephen B. Jones on Instagram.
2:01:30
[SPEAKER_11]: So come and check out, you can see, not gonna hear me talk about movies or see me acting, but you can see a lot of my professional drawing on Instagram.
2:01:38
[SPEAKER_10]: And there's some really beautiful artwork, you see great character designs, you see a lot of different studies of film characters I've seen you put up, and it's a really fun Instagram to follow.
2:01:49
[SPEAKER_10]: So I highly recommend it.
2:01:50
[SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
2:01:50
[SPEAKER_09]: Did you draw a spring load for robots and disguise?
2:01:54
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't think so.
2:01:55
[SPEAKER_10]: OK.
2:01:55
[SPEAKER_11]: But you, specifically, got to do the character.
2:01:57
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's awesome.
2:01:58
[SPEAKER_10]: No, yeah.
2:01:59
[SPEAKER_10]: I didn't get to draw it.
2:02:00
[SPEAKER_10]: I didn't get to draw it.
2:02:01
[SPEAKER_10]: So Steve, thank you so much for coming on.
2:02:03
[SPEAKER_10]: Thanks, guys.
2:02:04
[SPEAKER_10]: I'm really glad you recommended this film.
2:02:06
[SPEAKER_10]: I'm really glad you did all the research.
2:02:09
[SPEAKER_10]: It was, say, be a little bit of time.
2:02:11
[SPEAKER_10]: And it was pretty impressive.
2:02:13
[SPEAKER_10]: It was a lot of fun having you on.
2:02:15
[SPEAKER_10]: And I think that's it for this week.
2:02:17
[SPEAKER_10]: And we will see you next time on the cinephiles.