Latest / ZoukNerds • Learn | Build | Belong / How to Become a Great Dancer? (S05 Ep58)

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How to Become a Great Dancer? (S05 Ep58) · ZoukNerds • Learn | Build | Belong

0:00
For me the biggest quality sword attributes would be great
0:03
adaptation. Another one would be Far Craft.
0:07
The ability to learn and extract a lesson from any moment in your
0:12
journey. Every moment in dance is an
0:15
opportunity to learn. With like this baseline
0:17
curiosity and desire to keep learning that I think is coming
0:21
before everything I mentioned. Hate me for saying this but
0:25
combos everybody can do. Dear Lord.
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Just watch a competition. Everybody can do the combos,
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they're not dancing, they're just doing the movements and
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that to me is not enough. What I see the most, a student
0:35
just did a workshop, a weekend, their festival, and I can see
0:39
here try to do all these things regardless of who they're
0:44
dancing with. A lot of the people that think
0:46
that they are a great dancer, they are at the peak of Mount
0:48
Stupid because they have a lot of confidence and very low
0:50
knowledge. What does it take and what is
0:55
the path to becoming a great dancer?
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What things should you learn and how to train to achieve your
1:03
goals well? Let's.
1:05
Find out Hello, Hello everyone and welcome back to Ukanerids.
1:10
In this episode, we are going to be focusing on sharing our
1:14
experience in becoming and training thousands of dancers
1:18
across the globe to achieve their goals.
1:21
If you are questioning your learning experience and how
1:25
that's going to take you to achieve your goals, this episode
1:28
is perfect for you. So let's go.
1:39
Hello, hello everyone and welcome back to another episode.
1:44
My name is Alison Sanji and let's welcome back again our
1:47
beautiful Co host Gib brother. Hello, Gee.
1:50
Hello, Alison. Hello everybody.
1:52
Welcome back to Zook Nerds. And in today's episode, we are
1:56
going to be talking about the journey of becoming a great
2:00
dancer. And I think we should start with
2:03
what is a great dancer? What do we mean by that?
2:07
Because honestly, a great dancer can have so many different
2:11
meanings for different dancers, for different teachers, for
2:15
different people in the community.
2:17
So we first going to dive into that and then we're going to be
2:21
talking about the journey of becoming one, whether through
2:25
our lenses in our systems and methodologies or other ways that
2:32
other people practice out there. So let's start with this guy for
2:36
you. What makes a great dancer?
2:40
What are the qualities? What are the attributes?
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That's a excellent question, and it's funny that you asked that.
2:47
You know, guys, we talk about the episode before we start
2:50
recording, but we don't go over what we're going to say.
2:52
We don't go over the questions. You know, it happens on the spot
2:56
because that's how we try to get the conversation going as
3:00
natural as we can. And I was preparing a
3:03
presentation for Mac for Module 7 when I teach.
3:08
And I slide that I made was align the terminology.
3:13
And that's something that we are doing right now.
3:15
Now we are aligning the terminology.
3:17
What do you mean by great dancer?
3:20
And in the aspect of social dancing, the aspect of a
3:23
Brazilian Zook dancer, For me, the great dancer depends on your
3:28
focus. If you're talking about social
3:31
dancing, I want to become an amazing Brazilian Zook social
3:37
dancer and that's one set of qualities.
3:40
If we're talking about I want to be a great president Zook
3:43
performance dancer. Could demos, I don't know, do
3:47
well on stage. I want to do well on checking
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Geo that's not the one. So I would define the great
3:53
dancer, the great president Zook dancer or the great partner
3:56
dancer that want to become a great social dancer.
4:01
For me that the biggest quality sword attributes would be their
4:05
ability to adapt to each other, their ability to adapt to other
4:08
people working on adaptation skills.
4:11
So great adaptation. Another one would be related to
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floor craft. You know, the great social
4:19
dancer uses the floor masterfully, can navigate the
4:25
empty space as well, can prevent bumping and can dance on the
4:30
spot really well when there is no space.
4:33
And I think the other great quality of a great social dancer
4:38
off the floor is, for example, using the music to connect with
4:44
their partner, using the music to inspire them.
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So it's an aspect of embodiment that comes that every time a new
4:51
song plays, they channel the feeling, the vibe of the song
4:56
and then using adaptation in floor craft skills, are able to
5:01
communicate there with a partner and start a process of playful
5:05
exchange. You know, like of enjoying the
5:09
connection with the partner, the music and the space and of
5:14
course themselves as they TuneIn with how they're feeling in that
5:19
day, what the music I inspired them to do.
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So I think it's this combination of these four elements that make
5:28
a great social dancer. The space they have to dance,
5:32
the adaptation to their partner, the music as inspiration, the
5:37
partners inspiration shoe and connection with themselves to
5:42
see what they're feeling on a given day in a given situation.
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What about you guys? How would you define the great
5:49
Dancer? I obviously agree with all the
5:53
above and belows of what you said, but I want to take a step
5:58
back and go before what you mentioned, which is the ability
6:04
to always be learning something at any point in time.
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Oh yes, 1000% yes. No matter whether you are in
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class or watching a video of somebody else dancing, watching
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a video of yourself dancing, social dancing with somebody
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above your level, below your level, or at your level,
6:29
teaching, doing anything, the ability to learn and extract a
6:35
lesson from any moment in your journey.
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And I'm going to stretch this further because I believe that
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the things that we struggle with in dance, they are a great part
6:48
of our life outside of dance. So stretching it to your daily
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life, if you are struggling to improvise, if you're struggling
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to express, if you're struggling to calm down, look at those
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things in your actual personal life outside of dancing, because
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I can pretty much be certain that those things are also there
7:14
in your personal life. You might be the type of person
7:18
who is always following structure or that needs
7:21
structure in order to complete something.
7:24
You're not very used to just going with the flow or the
7:29
famous saying yes and figure out later.
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If you are struggling to express indents, maybe that's also
7:37
something present in your personal life.
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You don't necessarily talk about how you feel or the things that
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bother you and so on and so forth about the things that you
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mention. So understanding that every
7:51
moment in dance is an opportunity to learn.
7:55
Every moment in life is an opportunity to learn and see the
8:00
connection between those two. Something in dance that probably
8:05
effects your personal life. Something in your personal life
8:08
outside of dance that probably affects your dance.
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I think that's a relationship that most people don't realize.
8:16
And I work with a lot of students in private lessons on
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that type of thing because so many people are great dancers,
8:27
great students, but they are only focusing on improving those
8:33
aspects or those skills in that. And then I have to make them
8:39
uncomfortable and talk about how I see that it's not only in
8:44
their dance. Like I have to ask questions and
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tell them. Do you realize that this is also
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something that you do when you're talking to people outside
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of the dance floor or something that you feel uncomfortable
8:58
outside of dance as well when you're just out there talking to
9:02
people? As teachers, we can see that
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connection a lot of the times with the students when they're
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dancing and when they're not dancing.
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But as dancers, a lot of the times we just think that it's
9:14
something that we have to fix in dance or it's a technique that I
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don't know. It's a class that I haven't
9:20
taken yet or I'm not in a level that I'm able to do that because
9:26
I don't have that level yet. But I think a lot of those soft
9:29
skills, they are not level related in terms of
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technicalities of dance. They are more, we could say,
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level related in terms of your own personal awareness and
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personal development. Maybe that's a little too deep
9:46
for the 1st 5 minutes of the episode, but that's what comes
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to my mind after you already mentioned so many of the
9:53
important things that we have in becoming a great dancer.
9:57
Yeah, this is very interesting points because learning the
10:01
movements, learning about the dance and the skills that the
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dance requires, not the first to be great.
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They are easier to grasp. I think it's right there is in
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front of us. We are seeing the Villagena
10:14
happen, you know, we are seeing that the connection of the hand
10:19
is different. This sort of awareness that
10:21
you're requiring is harder. You know, it's harder to talk
10:25
about, it's harder to perceive because they are ingrained.
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We are in most the time out of pilot.
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We are just going with the way that we always go.
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I think the awareness that the dance brings in this aspect of
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everyday life, it's already a powerful tool that we have and
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it's a powerful tool that is presented to us.
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The thing is then going and doing the work after, you know,
10:54
so like doing the work with the dance, with the movements, with
10:58
the things that you can see your body doing is there, we can
11:03
grasp, we can touch it, we can literally connect with it.
11:07
The other work requires awareness, more time in everyday
11:11
efforts into also changing those aspects of life.
11:15
That is sort of transitioning into how we dance, transitioning
11:20
into how we learn this, how we approach dance.
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The first thing you mentioned, Allison, about the desire to
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learn, to keep learning. There are two things about it.
11:29
One is in my experience, guys, this is super interesting.
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Now I'm noticing this. In my experience, everybody that
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I consider to be a great dancer have come to me or I have seen
11:41
them doing it, go into another one and asking how do you do
11:44
this? Can we have 30 minutes to talk
11:48
about this thing, how you do this, how you talk about this?
11:51
An exchange. There's some desire for more
11:55
knowledge. There's some desire for teach me
11:57
a little bit more of what you were doing here.
12:00
If there is anything that I can share, let's talk about it.
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And guys, this is so beautiful. I'm always surprised when
12:08
someone that I consider to be at the highest level in the highest
12:12
excellence coming to me and say, can you share with me a little
12:16
bit more about this thing that you do?
12:18
I was having a couple weeks ago an exchange with Yago and it was
12:26
really fascinating because I was wanting to understand how he
12:29
builds circles and he was wanting to understand how I'm
12:33
building embrace. And then I told him how I build
12:36
circles, which is different from how he builds circles.
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Circles is the secularity of the dance.
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And we had this super cool exchange and he showed me some
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things. I show him some things, guys,
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it's amazing, fascinating stuff. But then in my mind, it's like,
12:49
God damn it, it's the, you know, the man can do all this cool,
12:54
amazing stuff. And here I am telling him about
12:58
stepping and blah, blah. You know, So it was a really
13:01
interesting experience. But you see the engagement, you
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know, with Alison. Remember Alison, we went to
13:09
Seattle so we couldn't do an exchange.
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And it was me, Alison, Kelsey at the time, and there was someone
13:18
else there too. And you know, we were doing, I
13:23
think it was the Cambria that we were doing in front of each
13:26
other. And we talk about like hip
13:28
connection. So we spend a long time just
13:30
talk about hip connection. I know, and it's Allison and we
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talk about hip connection, you know, so that kind of thing,
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it's fascinating to me. And there is also the other side
13:40
of it that I have witnessed you and I have recently exchanged
13:44
with some local organized local teachers about this when there
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is this, I already know kind of idea.
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Oh, I already know this. I have already done this class.
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So you see a teacher starting the class and then you see that
14:02
person living and sitting down. And then when you go talk to
14:05
them later, I've seen this already.
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I already know this, you know, and this is something just to be
14:11
mindful of that I was telling everybody that I was telling
14:14
them this person might have been tired, not fully open to hear
14:20
this thing again or to see what are the nuances in the thing
14:25
that they already know. Because again, Alison and I, we
14:29
were exchanging and we spent some time in hip connection.
14:33
Alison already know hip connection.
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I know hip connection. But there was something about
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the way that we are talking about hip connection that we
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could learn from each other, you know, and that's the thing that
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sometimes can prevent someone from becoming a great dancer
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because they are more related to, oh, I already know this,
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teach me something new. So they might not be yet seen
14:57
the nuances on the things that they think they know.
15:00
And taking classes from other people and doing these exchanges
15:03
is where you learn these nuances of what you think they know.
15:06
Yeah. So all of these to connect to
15:08
your first point. So it's like this baseline
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curiosity and desire to keep learning that I think is coming
15:17
before everything I mentioned and makes a big impact in how
15:24
you learn presently, how you social dance because the
15:27
curiosity is going as you are social dancing.
15:31
The adaptability points that we made, the adaptation skills
15:35
require curiosity, require the desire to understand.
15:39
So then you're like, wait, I know he connection, but with
15:43
this partner here, he's working differently.
15:46
What's going on? Sometimes you go for the
15:48
mentality, oh, they don't know or they didn't learn it yet.
15:53
They didn't learn the connection yet, but maybe they did, just in
15:58
a different way, you know. So I think in the end of the
16:01
day, what you mentioned Hanson at 1st and then second informs
16:05
everything else. Yes, I think a lot of the times
16:09
people are focusing on the surface level things.
16:13
They're focused on the things that they can see, not the
16:17
things that they cannot see. I was talking to my students
16:22
last week in class and I was telling them about this
16:26
invisible techniques, invisible details and leads, and I was
16:32
showing them. You see, when we lead like this
16:35
or when we follow like this, this is how it looks.
16:39
Yes, it works, but there's only a percentage of the body or a
16:45
fraction of the body that is executing this movement because
16:49
the prep was too late, the information was not complete,
16:53
and the person just executes the movement.
16:57
But now when you understand the invisible things that are there,
17:02
that's when You Can Dance with your entire body.
17:05
That's when you can make your partner feel the movement
17:09
happening in their body and they only realized what the movement
17:13
is as they're inside of the movement.
17:16
All before they were just feeling like there is a movement
17:20
happening. There is something happening in
17:22
my body. Talking between the relationship
17:26
from a leader to a follow. The leader is sending this
17:29
information early enough, prepping the movement, prepping
17:32
the body to get to a point and for the followers to understand
17:38
that every moment, everything that is happening and every
17:42
sensation that they get is a piece of information.
17:47
So all of those things are deep things that we call them soft
17:52
skills, but I think they should be probably called hard skills
17:56
'cause they had the hardest skills and to attain.
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And the other thing is that when people are learning a lot of the
18:04
things they are just learning by copying, right?
18:08
So let's talk about dancers who are more focused on the picture
18:14
image, focused on the picture image, or focus on this thing
18:20
that they saw that they want to look like or they want to do in
18:25
a similar way. I think it's more useful to
18:28
learn the tools to create that or to understand how to create
18:34
that. For me, it's less important to
18:37
be able to do it then to understand how it's done.
18:43
And then one day I'll be able to do it.
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I don't know if the English makes sense on how I phrase this
18:49
because I'm just really spitting out what's in my head.
18:53
But for example, right now I'm learning to play piano, right?
18:58
And I'm fully trusting the process.
19:01
There are songs that I'm just very disconnected with.
19:05
There are songs that I really enjoying playing.
19:07
There are things that I'm just like, wow, my God, this is so
19:11
awkward. But I'm trusting the process
19:14
because for me, I understand that the process, the
19:20
methodology, the system is creating skills on me and in my
19:26
hands and in my brain that I don't realize yet.
19:30
And in the future I will understand.
19:33
So that's why when we teach our students or when we train
19:37
ourselves, we are more focused on that.
19:40
It's not for everybody. Like we say, we can never be a
19:44
good teacher or the favorite teacher of every dancer out
19:47
there. Some dancers and some teachers
19:50
are more focused on the picture or on the outcome, on this
19:56
should look like this. When you do this, it needs to be
20:00
this angle. For us, I think it's more about
20:03
discovering how the movement can happen in your own body.
20:08
Discovering through the tools of technique, of footwork, of
20:13
drilling and doing all of those things.
20:15
Discovering how the movement looks like in your body feels
20:20
like in your body. And how to become a great dancer
20:24
in your body, not a great dancer in someone else's image.
20:30
Because I think that's what a lot of people are searching for.
20:33
Oh, I just want to dance like that person.
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Oh, I just want to look like that person.
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Oh, I want to have that musicality.
20:41
I want to have that styling. Yes, inspiration is a great
20:47
thing. Inspiration makes us work
20:49
kinder, makes us move and get up early and do something about it.
20:54
But I think inspiration is different from using that as a
21:02
tool to simply copy versus using that as a tool to be inspired,
21:08
to learn what they learned to get to that point.
21:11
So when you see somebody doing something amazing, try to
21:14
understand what do they do to get to that level, to get to
21:19
that point, to understand their body and their partner's body in
21:23
a way that they are both able to do this.
21:26
Not just those two together, but they change partners.
21:29
They're still able to do that with different people.
21:31
To me, that's the most interesting part and that's what
21:34
really makes a great dancer, Understanding the tools behind
21:39
whatever is being executed. Because hate me for saying this,
21:44
but combos everybody can do. Dear Lord, just watch a Jack and
21:47
do competition. Everybody can do the compass,
21:51
but how many of them are doing it in their own body?
21:56
How many of them are actually feeling like how their partner
22:00
is moving and creating something out of that in the moment?
22:05
That to me, is somebody who, in terms of competition, would
22:09
score very high. The combos, everybody can do it.
22:12
I can teach a beginner how to do the combo and they can still
22:15
look decent, but they're not dancing, they're not exploring
22:21
the art in their body. They're just doing the
22:23
movements. And that, to me is not enough.
22:27
Yeah, I mean, this is a very interesting topic that I have a
22:32
slight different approach to this one in terms of the matter
22:36
of copying someone. And it's really interesting
22:39
topic because I talked this with my brother a lot.
22:42
We used to talk about this quite often.
22:44
We had the same teachers for years.
22:46
We are in the same classes alongside each other, shoulder
22:49
to shoulder, learning from the same people.
22:52
And we were both really trying to be like them.
22:55
So we would like copy the way they walk, the way they talk,
23:00
the way they move. We would watch them this and try
23:03
to replicate their movements and we were to copy the same person
23:07
and we ended up doing completely different.
23:09
You know, I think for me, I framed the idea of copying with
23:15
the perspective of point of reference.
23:18
I have a point of reference to, like you said, inspiration.
23:21
Then I have a point of reference that I'm connect with when I
23:26
think about movie in a certain way or to a certain kind of
23:29
music. So there is that point of
23:31
reference in I shamelessly try to copy them as a way to learn
23:39
what to do to express myself to that song, to that style in that
23:45
way. So it's almost like I copy with
23:49
the purpose of understanding The high school that I studied, we
23:53
had art class and music class, which nowadays I see, Oh my God,
23:57
what a blessing. Back in the day, I was like,
23:59
what, what, what, what are we doing here?
24:02
But now I understand that we would understand the art
24:05
movements through the course of history, classic, I don't know
24:09
the names in English, but you know, the art movements that
24:12
existed. And we would spend some time
24:14
trying to recreate that movement like that style.
24:20
And then coming what you said, Addison, what are the
24:22
characteristics of that movement of that art movement?
24:26
So I would learn always more flat images, blah, blah, blah,
24:30
blah, blah, blah. So we understand the
24:31
characteristics and we will try to create a painting or a
24:35
drawing that was inspired by that movement.
24:39
Now, my brother did architecture and he'd studied the evolution
24:43
of architecture, and his assignment was trying to
24:46
recreate those things, you know, So like, that is like copying
24:51
the style, understanding the elements of it.
24:55
So I think there is a power to the copy when you see it as
24:59
referencing it, like using as reference points, using as
25:02
inspiration. Yeah.
25:05
And then when copying it, I think as much as you try to do
25:09
exactly the same, you still going to do it your way just
25:13
because your body is built different, has a different
25:15
history of movement, has different backgrounds all
25:18
together. Like my brother and I, we were
25:21
copying the same guy, the same people, but our execution was
25:25
different. His was closer to the original
25:28
source than I was because his body looked more similar to the
25:32
reference point than my body did.
25:34
So when people looked, if you ask Alexica Value about my
25:39
brother, he's going to say, oh, it's Fabiano's son, which was
25:43
the guy we were trying to copy because they look so similar.
25:46
So there is this aspect of copying it from the point of
25:51
view of reference point inspiration.
25:54
And there's one other take on it too, that Jaime used to say, the
25:59
dancers who can embody other ones, the dancers who can copy
26:04
other ones in the ways that they move and how they move, how they
26:07
position themselves, are actually very skilled.
26:11
Your ability to fully embody someone, to copy them, like this
26:16
pit image of someone is actually a skill because you need to
26:20
modify how you move in order for someone else to look at your
26:24
dancer like, oh, it's it's that, you know, so we would have this
26:28
game called who am I? And we would like start
26:31
imitating the dancer, you know. So I think if we can look at the
26:36
idea of copying from the point of view of inspiration for
26:41
acquiring vocabulary reference points, inspiration on how to
26:45
move, I find it personally a very, very powerful tool and in
26:51
the learning process too. And I think you'll remember this
26:55
item when we were all in Taiwan and my brother was there and
26:59
your team was preparing for the Jack and Jill.
27:01
And then we have a couple people watching and giving feedback.
27:05
And one of the feedback that people received was, oh, like
27:09
you guys to enjoy the music more.
27:12
Remember what my brother said? I don't know if you remember
27:14
what Rodrigo said, but he mentioned something like that.
27:18
He has a pet beeve with that request to enjoy the music more
27:22
because when he was learning, he was like, but I don't know how
27:25
to enjoy the music. I don't know.
27:27
I'm so insecure about my movements.
27:30
I don't know what to do. That's when somebody asked me to
27:33
enjoy this song. I just want to punch them in the
27:35
face, you know, because bro, I don't understand.
27:41
I don't know what to do, you know?
27:44
So I think the process of copying is important in the
27:48
learning process. And it's something that when we
27:51
are doing one of the modesty market that we had that amazing
27:56
master of didactics where she was talking about the stages of
28:00
learning. She mentioned that the last
28:02
stages are autonomy and horizontal learning is when you
28:08
are able to like, you know, you embody the whole thing.
28:11
But there is one stage that is called imitation.
28:14
One of the states of learning is imitation.
28:17
So I find it super invaluable that we provide people with
28:22
information on how to enjoy the music.
28:24
You enjoy the music like this. So they will copy how we enjoy
28:28
the music. But I think in the end of the
28:30
day, we are giving them as part of like, oh, you can jive to the
28:35
song like this. And then you bring them the
28:38
knowledge. Now try you with your hips, now
28:41
try you with your shoulders. And then we give them the
28:45
prompts so they can enjoy their own bodies.
28:47
But we need to give some sort of initial spark in which they are
28:51
indeed copying us. So that's the thing.
28:54
The initial thing is the copy. And what you do afterwards is
28:57
what will make the difference not between the person being
29:01
their bodies and continuously. I think the thing of the copy
29:05
might be in the end of the day, I think of dependency.
29:08
How much did they depend on someone else telling them how to
29:11
do movement, how to dance in order for them to dance?
29:16
So we start by saying that's how you dance, that's how you move.
29:19
Now find it in your body, you know, So things like first here
29:25
are the words this how you say this.
29:26
These are a way to say this how you can build this sentence
29:29
here, you know, and from there you go.
29:33
Yeah, I think my issue is probably with the word.
29:37
To me, when I refer to copying, I refer to almost like a
29:42
photocopy, not reproducing or replicating.
29:47
I think that's a better way to learn when you're trying to
29:50
replicate, reproduce something that somebody's doing, yes.
29:54
Then you'll learn through that. I think when you're trying to
29:58
replicate, when you're trying to reproduce, you are paying
30:01
attention to the details. You are working with test one,
30:07
test 2, test 3, and you keep on going.
30:10
But when I say copy, I literally say no understanding.
30:17
I literally mean the person doesn't care or doesn't realize
30:23
that they don't understand what's going on.
30:25
They're literally simply copying without any consciousness or
30:32
awareness of what's going on. I think for somebody to like,
30:35
imitate, to reenact somebody else, they need to be aware.
30:42
They need to have the skills to replicate.
30:46
But to just copy, I don't know. I think there is maybe a small
30:52
difference in the way that we see things like this.
30:55
But for me, it's a big difference in the way that I see
30:59
when people are dancing or learning.
31:01
Like a lot of the times the students are doing something and
31:06
I can just see you're trying to copy something.
31:10
You're not trying to reenact, you're not trying to recreate,
31:15
replicate. You're just trying to copy.
31:18
And to me, there is a difference in that.
31:20
And that is when I think people don't get the benefit of
31:25
copying. Like you mentioned, the benefit
31:28
of copying is understanding is feeling it in your body and all
31:32
of those things. So I think that definition is
31:35
quite important. Copying in the sense of no
31:38
awareness, or copying with awareness, with understanding,
31:44
and with testing and questioning.
31:47
Pretty much. Which goes back to your first
31:49
point, you know, like curiosity thing, you know, like if we are
31:54
just copying someone else's homework just to complete the
31:57
homework and give it to the teacher and you're just writing
32:00
words, you just, you literally just writing words.
32:03
But if you're copying someone's homework and reading what you
32:08
are writing and reflection what you are writing, and then
32:12
through the process of copying, you might change a word here and
32:15
there. You might delete a whole
32:17
paragraph. And when you see you use someone
32:20
else's homework for inspiration to give you, like, I'm stuck.
32:23
It's almost like what AI is in a way, in the way that we use it,
32:28
You know, it's like copy and paste the whole thing and we are
32:33
just like, OK, I need this or we can AI create a text for me.
32:40
And then you're like, oh, amazing, didn't think about
32:43
this, didn't think about this. And then you go use that
32:45
inspiration to build something else.
32:48
But that's how I've been using AI so far.
32:50
It's like a little initial spark, you know?
32:54
And in the process of dancing, what I see the most, a student
32:59
just did a workshop, a weekend there festival and on the Monday
33:03
practica. I can see what's happening, you
33:06
know, I can see they just came from something because here try
33:10
to do all these things regardless of who they're
33:13
dancing with. And you see them try and the
33:16
follow doesn't go and then they stop and like, no, you should go
33:19
this way. No, no, no, no.
33:21
You know, I used to look at that and like, God damn it, people
33:25
come on. But then nowadays I just look at
33:28
that and I see who is doing it and I understand, you know, it's
33:33
more like in the process of becoming a good, great dancer.
33:38
I think there is this almost, and I'm going to say from the
33:42
perspective of the leader, almost like a desperation, like
33:45
desire to know more movements, to know more words, to know what
33:50
to say. And you do these things
33:53
regardless of who is in front of you.
33:55
Just want to go through the movements, just want to go
33:57
through the patterns. I think it really requires the
34:01
teacher, the facilitator, the person who holds authority to
34:06
guide that. I have a particular set of
34:10
students, leaders, that they come to me to refine movements.
34:15
So they go somewhere, they learn something and then they come in
34:19
like, can you help me understand this movement a little bit more?
34:23
What normally happens is that we end up not seeing the original
34:27
movement they brought. What end up happened is he said,
34:31
I say, I ever thought about going actually this way here and
34:35
they go, oh cool, this feels nice.
34:38
Can we do this one and then we end up doing the other one that
34:43
is like that? I suggested inspired by what I'm
34:46
watching them do and how I'm seeing that they might flow
34:50
better. So I am the subject with more
34:53
awareness in this particular scenario, you know who can
34:57
inform? The one who is acquiring more
35:00
awareness of movements. So at times, I think especially
35:04
us teachers or us who have more experience, we lack patience
35:11
sometimes to understand that the person who we were talking to or
35:15
who we are seeing might not be yet to the level of awareness
35:20
that we would like them to be. And if we have some sort of way
35:24
to reach out to them, then we can tell them an option that
35:30
they haven't realized. You know, this thing, I don't
35:34
know if your teacher Allison, never done this, but in Brazil
35:36
was very common. They would say, come up with an
35:39
exit for this movement. We'll go through that.
35:42
Better than that, come up with an exit.
35:44
Yeah, we do that in the teens as well.
35:46
Yeah, What was the most common thing for me as a student?
35:51
And that was, for me, the sort of the pinnacle of mastery of
35:57
masterfulness in my student view.
36:00
We would come up with all these crazy complicated access.
36:03
They had like 2 accounts, you know, and my teachers,
36:08
literally, they would just walk out.
36:10
You know, it's just like one step to the side and we are
36:15
over. And it's so crazy because we
36:18
didn't think about that. We didn't think about, I can
36:22
just step to the side literally, you know, And that was always
36:29
mesmerizing to me. And I still remember the day
36:31
that one of our students, we did this, figure out an exit from
36:35
here. And I did.
36:37
I was waiting for this moment for, you know, 15 years, the
36:40
moment that I would do this exercise and I would take a step
36:43
to the side to finish the movement.
36:45
And I did that and impacted someone because that person came
36:49
to me months later to say, man, when you just walked out of the
36:52
thing, I was like, oh, you can do that, You know what I mean?
36:56
So sometimes the person doesn't know really, they just don't
36:59
know. So they haven't been shown yet
37:03
what are the things that are inside.
37:05
So then we play, we, I'm saying we teachers name, we play a big
37:10
role in this process of turning the idea of copying, turning the
37:15
idea of reference points into the initial spark, into the
37:18
inspiration, and then guiding them to show what they can do
37:24
while being aware of how much they can actually perceive of
37:30
their own bodies and their own movements.
37:32
And that's a whole other story. But yeah, it's something I
37:36
wanted to share. Yeah, and I think a great
37:38
summary for this episode or maybe a great introduction that
37:42
we should have used in the beginning.
37:44
He's talking about the Danning Kruger effect.
37:48
Well, for those of you who don't know, there's two axes, the
37:52
confidence that goes up and down and the competence that goes
37:57
horizontally. So a lot of the times people
38:00
when they're learning, they start very low confidence and
38:04
they go way high in confidence, but they haven't moved down yet
38:10
to competence. And that is called the peak of
38:14
Mount Stupid. When you're confidence.
38:20
I can see using that in so many classes in the night.
38:23
Oh my gosh, I can see all that guys.
38:27
We're all the peak of Mount is stupid right now.
38:30
Our confidence is so high, but our competence is so low.
38:35
Yes, I can totally understand. And then after the peak of Mount
38:40
Stupid, we go to the Valley of Despair where our confidence
38:45
drops and we gain a little bit of knowledge.
38:49
And maybe because of that little bit of knowledge is why your
38:54
confidence dropped, because it's kind of picomont stupid is you
38:58
don't know what you don't know. And then Valley of Despair is
39:02
like, you know what you don't know.
39:04
And then you're like, Dang, I have so many things that I need
39:08
to learn, fix, and things that I want to get to.
39:12
And then if you get through that, that's when you start
39:15
going through the slope of enlightenment because now you
39:19
know what you don't know and you're working towards knowing
39:23
that. And then when you get to the
39:25
plateau of sustainability. So if you don't know the Dunning
39:30
Kruger effect, please look it up because it's quite interesting.
39:35
I got this from a seminar that I was watching 2 weeks ago and the
39:41
guy was talking about it. But interestingly enough last
39:46
week one of my students came to me and they asked.
39:51
Today in class. I felt like I was inside of the
39:54
Dunning Kruger effect because at points I felt like Oh my God yes
39:59
I got it. And then I felt like oh damn I
40:02
didn't get it at all. And then I understood why.
40:07
I felt like I got it. And then I understood.
40:10
Why? I still didn't get it.
40:13
And then I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and I'm like,
40:16
OK, now I know where to get to. So then at least at the end of
40:21
the class, they got to the Slope of Enlightenment.
40:24
They didn't finish the class on the Valley of Despair, which
40:28
would have been a little sad. Yeah, but that's very good me
40:31
and I'm going to use it so much now.
40:34
Because that's the kind of thing that we see in Dense a lot when
40:39
people they either want to become a great dancer or they
40:44
think they're a great dancer. A lot of the people that think
40:48
that they are a great dancer, most of the times I have to say
40:52
they are at the peak of Mount Stupid because they have a lot
40:55
of confidence and very low knowledge.
40:57
But then there's also the people that think, Oh my God, my
41:01
dancing is so crap. But it's not.
41:03
They're just in that slope of enlightenment or maybe getting
41:07
out of the valley of despair. And in our classes, we see that
41:13
a lot, especially in District Zook or here or in Melbourne
41:17
when I was teaching, because a lot of people come with ton of
41:22
confidence because they can do and they can copy certain moves
41:27
and certain techniques. But then they start coming to
41:29
our classes and they cannot change directions.
41:32
They cannot reverse a movement. They cannot walk backwards and
41:37
walk forwards and change timing. They cannot do those very simple
41:42
skills compared to the advanced crazy combo that they can do.
41:47
And then they drop into the value of this pair and they're
41:50
like, Oh my God, there's so much that I don't know.
41:54
And when I started classes with you guys, I thought I was like
41:58
advanced. And now I feel like oh damn I'm
42:02
just a beginner doing advanced movements.
42:04
Yeah, it happens more often than you're thinking right now as
42:08
we're talking about it. I can think about these three
42:10
people right now who are going through this process just during
42:15
the warmups. You know, the interesting thing
42:18
is that some of them leave. They don't stay or they stop
42:23
coming, you know, because they might be in that one, then
42:27
they're my stupid one. But those who actually stay are
42:30
the one who like go to the what is it the value of despair?
42:36
And they go like, Oh my God, I don't know.
42:39
And then they come back, you know, and we received them with
42:43
the open of arms possible. That's what we want, you know,
42:47
people that want to learn because in the end of the day,
42:50
the topic of the episode is the process.
42:53
Now they're becoming a great dancer.
42:55
And I think it comes back to your first point, curiosity, how
42:59
do I do that? And then you just keep looping
43:01
back to the same thing, you know, I think so that's the
43:03
whole point. I think guys, whenever any
43:07
question comes into mind, just ask more questions when you feel
43:11
very confident about something. Just ask more questions when you
43:14
feel that you don't know. Just ask more questions because
43:18
the more we are curious about learning at every point, every
43:22
time, every action, we are essentially becoming better at
43:28
that thing that we want to know more about, whether it's dance
43:32
or personal life. Simply stay curious.
43:36
Stay what we call here Zukiner. It's a forever student, be that
43:41
as a social dancer, competitor, performer, teacher, organizer,
43:46
promoter, whatever DJ, anything in the community.
43:50
If you stay for every student and you stay curious and you try
43:55
to learn from every experience, you will be in the Slope of
44:00
Enlightenment and reach Plateau of sustainability, which means
44:06
you're constantly going to be improving for as long as you
44:09
keep searching for information. Otherwise, Peak of Mount Stupid
44:14
will be at home or Valley of Despair will be at home, because
44:19
those are the two places where a lot of people don't continue
44:22
dancing. They reach Peak of Mount Stupid
44:25
and then they stop learning, or they reach value of Despair
44:28
without guidance and then they give up.
44:32
Yes. So if you are in either of these
44:35
two, find guidance and you will get to the slope of
44:40
enlightenment and hopefully you will have a sustainable learning
44:45
path in learning journey. Hopefully we all hope that.
44:50
Yeah, we are here for you 2 people.
44:52
Yes, we are here for you in case you find yourself in either
44:56
side, you are in the peak or in the valley.
45:00
So let us know. Yeah, because we can be here.
45:03
Yeah, keep following us, keep subscribing all the platforms
45:06
and watching our episodes. And even if you have no other
45:11
guidance, we hope that this will be enough to get you to the next
45:15
stage. So once again, thank you for
45:19
being here with us and spending a little bit more time every
45:23
week with Zook Nerds with Key and I.
45:26
We really, really, really appreciate and we love when we
45:29
get questions from you guys. So if you have any questions or
45:34
suggestions about future episodes, please let us know and
45:38
we'll be doing it for you right here.
45:41
OK, So thank you. Thank you, everybody.
45:45
Beiges. Beiges, Abrasus and Ciao.
45:50
Bye everyone, see you next time.