Latest / Reality Writes / Post-Launch Hustle: Marketing Your Book After Launch

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Post-Launch Hustle: Marketing Your Book After Launch · Reality Writes

0:05
SPEAKER_00: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another road trip edition of Reality Rights.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: I am author Ellie Alexander, and this is the podcast where we discuss all things bookish.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm back with my personal chauffeur.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: I'm the tech guy, and we're still driving a week later.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: Dirty little secrets.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes if we have time, we record more than one of these.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: So what?
0:29
SPEAKER_00: No.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: It's the magic of podcasting.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: This is the magic of podcasting.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, last season we did an episode about everything that goes into releasing a book and launching it out into the world.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: And today we are tackling the follow-up.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: And I have a lengthy list, let me tell you, of everything that happens once the book is published.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: So for any of you darlings who are writers, I think this one will be of big interest to you because we're going to talk about marketing strategies, advertising, all of the things that go into continuing to get your book out in front of new readers.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: And for the darlings who are readers, I hope that you'll find this interesting in terms of the amount of work that we do to keep those books in your hot little hands.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: Two things though.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: First of all, one, I just realized we are in season two, aren't we?
1:27
SPEAKER_02: We're in season two.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: Never even said that.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: Like it's this will be episode three of 2025, because our first episode came out on uh January 2nd.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: It's exciting.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: I said two things.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: What's the other thing?
1:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh the other thing was I forget.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: I'll renumber it.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: It was super important, I'm sure.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Something about the new season, 2025, marketing.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: She will get to it.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh so I talk about this all the time with my writing students.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think many of them believe me until after they have published their first book, which is there is at least as much, if not more, work that goes into after the book is launched out into the world, right?
2:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's really when my all my work kicks in.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: Like leading up right up until launch.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: And then once the book launches, the bulk of it is it happens after the fact.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: So let's start with sort of launch day and launch week.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: And if you want, um, we'll make sure that we link to uh basically like part one, which talks about everything that's happening prior to that.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: But um one of the first things that needs to be done is you have to go through and update things like A plus content, um, pre-order links, your website, website, any sort of social media banners.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but so and this is just more of a pep peeve thing than anything, but you know, you because books, especially traditionally published books, but even even indie published books, um, are always available for pre-order before they're released.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: And so the links usually say pre-order, you know, releases so so 2025 or whatever.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: Then when it comes out, you don't want the links to still say pre-order because readers will think, oh, well, there will always be time to pre-order later.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, when it gets closer to release day, and they won't realize, oh, it it's out.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: They get like so you need to change those links, buttons, graphics, everything.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: All the messaging needs to switch from pre-order over to buy now, uh, you know, read now, that that sort of thing.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: And instead of saying releases on, you know, January, you know, whatever, 2025, it you change it to released on January whatever 2020.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Or out now.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Available.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Available everywhere.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: That makes me think of two things.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: Number one, uh, when I did a post on Facebook to share that we had launched uh the first episode of season two of Reality Rights, I saw that I have not updated the Facebook cover for a holiday homicide.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: It still says releasing November 20th.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: See, there you go.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: And the second part of that is uh with my publishing houses, like let's take Storm, for example, they send me uh pre-launch assets.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: So it will be things like everything the tech guy just talked about, you know, teasers with the covers, little clips of um, or little chunks of reviews, things like that.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: And then there's a whole other set of assets that are for launch day and after.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh the same thing goes for like once the book is on sale.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: Like if if they're doing a special 99 cent promo, then there's another chunk of assets that I receive from the publishing houses too.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: Or if it's us, you're making those.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: And um, because we have checklists for this stuff, uh, we should put some together for people to download sometime.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's on the list of uh the course refresh.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: I remember what number two was.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I was just gonna give my usual spiel about uh hey, share this podcast with a friend.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh sharing is caring.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh we just want to grow the community.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the more people that uh that hear about reality rights, hopefully uh more writers we can help, more uh readers we can inform about books and all the cool things behind the scenes of publishing and writing.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: So uh send it to a friend.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: Let them know about reality rights.
5:34
unknown: Yeah.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for that.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Um I I mentioned updating A plus content.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: That's um specific to Amazon.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so do you want to just talk briefly about that for readers and or new writers who might not be familiar with?
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: So when your book is listed on Amazon, um, you may notice when you go to uh to some books' website, not all of them, but uh they all have the opportunity to do this, but it is extra work.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: There's everything that's kind of uh below the fold, BTF uh is referred to as A plus content.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: And that's the you know, you'll see graphics with like reviews and maybe you know images uh you know that that are related to the book and things like that.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: Um uh uh quick synopses of of the the story and and everything, but just in graphical format and all that's called A plus content.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: And it's something that if you have your book listed on Amazon, either if you indie publish, you can do it yourself.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: And if you if you're traditionally published, your publisher will need to do it because it has to be done through the account.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: But many times you'll want to update that after the book comes out because reviews will get released that you'll want to have included in there.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: And you know, maybe you have new new uh promo content about the book and everything that you want, or if you had any pre-order messaging in your A content, you'll want to change it out there too.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: So this is all happening day of or the week of release.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, if we forget one of them, like uh I will update my Facebook banner when we get back from this road trip.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, this is all sort of timely right as the book is releasing.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, sharing reviews is dexed on my list.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because of the way that reviews work, sometimes if you're using NetGally, then those reviews come in through the publishing house or through you as an indie author in advance of launch.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: But most reviews and many of the book sales sites like Amazon, Goodreads, et cetera, don't allow, no, actually, Goodreads does allow it now, um, don't allow readers to post reviews until release day.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: So you as the author get a whole, hopefully, like a lot of lovely, nice, kind reviews that you can then share so that another reader might find their way to Tort or the Secret Book Case or Up to Leavenworth.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: And and you you just because the book is released doesn't mean that you should stop soliciting reviews.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: So once the book is released, that's the time to start marketing to your readers, to the your to your base, to your uh, you know, your social media followers and everything to to ask them if they read the book and they enjoyed it, to please leave a review.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, whether that's on social media or preferably on, you know, Amazon Barnes and Noble and and Goodreads and places like that where people do read reviews because the trade reviews are great, but but reviews from actual readers, I feel like carry even more weight because they're super authentic, right?
8:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, they you know, hearing from another reader uh about their experience with a book, I think goes a lot farther than like the New York Times saying this book was great, you know.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: Um I anyway, that that needs to continue after that because you're once your book is out, people are gonna stop, uh, I mean, they're gonna start finishing it.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: So, well, some some people the same day, but uh for for the rest of us that read at normal speeds, usually within a week or so of the book being released, they're going to finish it.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: And it's good to get those reviews when it's fresh in their minds.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: And and also when the book is is first released, getting those reviews out there and driving, you know, driving more interest in the book will help the book rank higher in uh you know all the all the places books are sold.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, and the way the algorithms work now is um the amount of reviews like your book might get shown to more readers looking for something in that same genre.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: So there are lots of reasons for that.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: And um, including and sharing reviews from readers should be an ongoing part of your marketing strategy, not just right after or during release week.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: That's something to pepper into your content at least once a month or so, um, which is some other thing that I'm not always great about remembering to do.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: And and right, yeah.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it in because all this stuff takes time, but there are there are means of doing it that that are a lot easier.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: Like Canva has some, you know, amazing templates that you can just choose a photo or change the image colors to your brand colors and drop the reviews in there, and then you can make, you know, a half dozen or more of those in like the 20 minutes or less.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: So that and then are ready to go.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: Ready to go.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: And you and Canva can automatically resize things.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: So you can share on Instagram, Facebook, uh X, you know, wherever you want uh uh uh to share that real, you know, pretty easily.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: And the great thing about that too is the reviews are evergreen, so you can just share something that you shared two months ago again as a new way to um connect and find new readers.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, uh another important thing is ad campaigns.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: So on the traditional side, the publishers run ad campaigns, and that could be anything from Facebook to Amazon ads to book bub, um, you know, Goodreads.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: If you're publishing independently, the onus is on you to create those ad campaigns.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: And um, that's another thing that you want to keep a close eye on um and be constantly updating and changing.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: And you can speak a little more to that.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we're we'll we will we will do more about this in your course and the yeah, your content associated with that and everything.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: But the the big thing here is to know what you're doing before you spend any money on advertising.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Don't just go out there and you know buy ads with specific keywords and throw money at it hoping that it will um stick.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: You're gonna want like spending money on on book advertising or advertising for any product, but especially book advertising, you're gonna want to make sure that you know what you're doing going into it, that you have a solid plan, and that you're able to that you have the time to constantly monitor it because you could end up spending a lot of money without a lot of return.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: The good thing is most of those platforms like Meta, it was Facebook and Instagram and and uh Amazon and everything, that you can set a like daily or weekly or monthly budget.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if you only want to spend$2 a day, you can do that.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: And and it's not, you know, it that that is kind of a protection.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: But even$2 a day, you want to make sure you're spending that wisely.
12:22
unknown: Yeah.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, and can you talk a little bit about um, you know, sort of the how you get to track that then, too, in terms of seeing whether your ads are working?
12:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: So all the platforms have just incredible levels of detail in terms of uh, you know, who's seeing your ads and which keywords or phrases are performing better than others.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: And you can set it to, you know, you can set them all to do to optimize themselves automatically, or you can do it manually.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: And there are pros and cons to bulb.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, if you don't really know what you're doing or don't have a lot of time to monitor the campaigns, having using the automated features is is okay.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: You're not always gonna get the the uh well almost never get the the best results doing that because obviously the the companies that design these platforms have you know they're they uh uh once year stuff to perform well, but to perform well for both you and them.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: They want to they want to make more money off the advertising, so you'll be spending a little bit more if you use all automated stuff.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: There are services out there that can do this for you too, but you know, you like on um uh uh Facebook, for example, you can you can drill down and pick like the uh audience that you the specific audience, like age range, gender, uh interests, everything that you want to see your book at.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: So you can make sure that people who are, you know, if you're a romance writer, you can target romance readers and and and you know, make sure that people who read like hardboiled crime or horror aren't seeing your ads, and which would just be a waste of money.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is yet another thing that you you it's not a set and forget.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: You want to constantly be looking about, like you said, tracking it, checking back in.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: And I would add, no one is gonna know your book better than you.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: No one knows my series, what I imagine.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think trying not to go the route of having it just dialed in by somebody else or by the algorithm is the best option because you're gonna be able to be like, oh no, you know, I know readers who love Stephen King.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: If you're writing horror, you know, that's that's not a great example because he's a huge name, but you know what I mean.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, that leads us to um the next thing on my list, which is bookstore outreach.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: Another thing that is a constant in a writer's life is connecting with bookstores, events, signings, pop-ins to sign stock.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Like on a road trip like this, if we're stopping through, I might go to like a Barnes and Noble in San Luis Obispo and go, oh, hey, I'm just driving through, but I'm in town.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Do you want me to sign whatever you have on the shelves?
15:17
SPEAKER_00: And they're always like, well, yes, please, because then a reader comes in and gets a bonus, bonus signed copy.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, so things like that.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: If you are traditionally published, your publicist might work with you to organize events.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: They'll also want to know your travel schedule.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: That's one of the things that you fill out when you um first sign a contract so that they have a sense.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: And then that's something that they ask an update throughout the year, too, to say, like, oh, you happen to be going to Florida.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, great.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: While you're in Florida, do you have a day or two to pop into these stores and then they'll potentially arrange that for you.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: If you're an indie author, you can do that legwork ahead of time yourself.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then being strategic about looking at what other kinds of conferences, like small mini festivals, any sort of event that is happening tied to a bookstore or any sort of literary fest that you might want to be doing outreach for.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: And those sort of bigger events are usually two, three years out.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Like we're already set for Mystery Fest for 2025.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: And I have a soft list of authors for 2026 already.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: And the same is true for bigger conferences like that.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, anything.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I must I I think um that is one thing to think about when you're thinking of a book release date, is what does your calendar look like for the month after the book releases?
16:44
SPEAKER_02: Because that's when you ahead of time you're going to want to do the outreach.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: But but even once the book releases, you should be doing more, you continuing that outreach and have the availability to go do a book talk or a signing or whatever the bookstore has time for you to do.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: Just make sure that you have the time available.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: And that's something that we learned very early on because it will and some of it was very difficult because for the first like 10 bake shops, yeah, or 10 or 12 bake shops, they all released two days after Christmas.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: So it was very like we we yeah, we yeah, which I know you've talked about before, but but having to like, oh well, we can't do any travel around that time or anything because you have to be available for stuff if if bookstores want to do things, um, that that is just something to keep in mind to make sure that, you know, for the next 30 days or so you have the ability to take a road trip or, you know, at least pop by books local, local indie bookshops if they have availability for you to do sightings.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, you know, again, just thinking farther out, because like the tech guy is saying, the that first month or so, bookstores are going to be really interesting because it's a new release.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: As time wears on, it's not that they're gonna say no, but it might be a little bit of a harder sell.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: It's always fun if they can get an author in right around the time that a book is releasing.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: But then looking farther out at your calendar where you could do something like popping in or just saying, like, hey, I'm visiting your town and I would love to do whatever you have available for me, whether that's an in-store signing, an event, et cetera.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: And and, you know, also like the one thing is um if you can get them scheduled uh ahead of time um to let let all your readership know, be make sure you're constantly communicating when these things are going to be um not only so they can attend and everything, but but the other thing is for the uh independent bookstores' sake, so that people don't buy the book ahead of time and then bring it to the store to have it sign because the whole reason that independent bookstores do author signings is so they can sell books, because they're in the business of selling books.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: So um, so the more you can do in that first month after release, the better.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's such a good point.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: And also because um you want to try to bring in people like yes, the bookstore is gonna have their own list of avid readers who will be interested in the event, but they also want authors to bring in new readers uh to the store so that it's a win-win for both of you.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, that takes us to uh the next long list, which is all kind of clumped together, which is fun marketing events.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm calling it.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Fun marketing events.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: So for starters, any sort of in-person event collaboration that you can do.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, this could be, let's say you write a coffee house mystery.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: This could be going to your local coffee shop and saying, Hey, I just had this book that came out.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: What do you think if we did a coffee and book pairing where we do a latte tasting and I read a little snippet of the book and you know, it's just a fun, free event for readers.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, for example, with the Sloan Krause mystery series, I went to my local brewery and I was like, I have this new beer book.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: What do you think about having a beer tasting?
20:19
SPEAKER_00: And they were like, yes, 100% yes, because it's great for them.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: They get a whole new clientele in with readers who might have an interested beer.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's it's uh a way to have an event at a space that maybe like, you know, needs something fresh to offer.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: And if you're an Indie publisher, make sure that when you're talking to them about doing the event, that it's okay with them that you would be selling your books there.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh be sure to ask that because you don't you don't want to be in a situation where you're making a business owner uncomfortable when you're trying to do a collaboration.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: And then if you're traditional, if you're traditionally published and contractually can't sell your own books, check in with your like check in with a business owner to see if it's okay to have one of the local bookstores, independent bookstores, come and do book sales when you're there uh doing your event.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, we've done that.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: That's worked out great.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, it's worked uh that event you were just talking about in in Leavenworth.
21:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh you had the bookstore have the brewery selling books.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: A book for all seasons, which is the bookstore in Leavenworth, came over to Icicle Brewing and brought books.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: And so they managed all book sales because contractually, I'm not allowed to sell any of my own books with my traditional contracts.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Now, if that was us with an indie title, we could have just brought our square and sold them directly.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: So as an indie author, this is well, yeah, you yeah, darlies, come on, pay down.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Although it is so cool.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: You just like scan and the book pops up.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: It's so fancy.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: It's tech.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: It's tech, it is tech.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: We could talk about that.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: Um But I think as an indie author, this is a great opportunity to really expand your reach.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: And it's something I encourage all of my students to do because again, going back to the idea of like, you know, your book, your content, um, the audience that you're trying to reach.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: So thinking creatively and out of the book, so to speak, in terms of sort of art, I know I had to do it, um, local partnerships that you can do.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we did so much of that early on in my career.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was just such a great way to make in-person connections with people too.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think at a time like this, we're really seeing that there's kind of this pendulum swing as we are in this very hyper digital age, that people are really hungry for third spaces and connections and places to go.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so get creative.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Check with your local library too, because libraries uh do was that on the list.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: So the drop again.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: That was perfect.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: The next thing on my list is libraries, no jokes.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Alrighty.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, go, keep going.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, I was just gonna say, like libraries love to have authors come and do book talks as well.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that is, and and I'll I don't do all libraries have friends of the library.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Most libraries have friends of the library, yeah.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: And they can do the book sales, so well, that was a big bump.
23:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, they can do the book sales for you.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and it uh that's a great way to get uh new readers in because a lot of readers love to go to events at local libraries.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: And uh just like in independent bookstores, they're free for the public, and it's just a great way to uh make a great connection with your local librarian as well.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Um it's also a great way for um, there's usually outreach that I do where I ask readers to request the book at their local library because local libraries will order books, and that's true for independent authors too, as long as your book is in the right system.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: So um that's outreach that you want to do shortly after the book is released all throughout the year.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: Whenever a reader messages me and says, I can't find your book at my local library, I automatically encourage them to put in a request at their local library.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: And most of the time, their librarian will order that book and then it will be in the system and in circulation.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: Um to the Friends of Library Point two, then they're making a profit of the book sales too.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's going back to the library system, which is always great.
24:31
SPEAKER_02: The other thing I was gonna say about requesting the book is that it's not only if it's not there, but if if you if it's a popular book and the wait is like 16 weeks or whatever for a book, if you put in a request for the most library systems, will they manage their ordering based on the holds and everything.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: And I know we've got a lot of librarians in in your audience, so they can they can reinforce this, but they try to, you know, I mean, libraries have budgets too, right?
25:02
SPEAKER_02: So they can't do this for everything.
25:03
SPEAKER_02: But it obviously if a book has 40 holds on it, they will probably try to order more copies.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: So, but that is true if they get more requests.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: So if they get 40 requests for the books, that's a signal to a librarian that maybe they need more than one or two copies of the book.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: And libraries host a lot of events, um, independent author book fairs, you know.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: So check your library's calendar for the year and see if there might be possible opportunities to pop in.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: If you're traditionally published, published, you can have your publicist take the lead on that.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: If you're an indie author, you can do obviously um thoughtful, nice outreach to your local library, not with the ex expectation.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: And this is true no matter what your path to publication is, but always like be kind, be gracious, make the ask, and then if it's a no, it's a no.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: Um and they will say no.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: Oh, definitely.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: So don't like, don't take that personally.
25:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, sometimes it's not a great match, sometimes they just don't have the time in the schedule, but don't hold it against them either.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: Because it it just has to be the right fit.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: So yes.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: We could do a whole episode, or I think we will at some point.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I have a show note about writers behaving badly.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: And you got joints?
26:20
SPEAKER_02: We got plenty of examples of that.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Don't be mean to your local librarian.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: You don't want that karma.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: I just wanna see me.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, don't be mean.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: There's also that.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, on the same note of libraries, one uh outreach that we've done that has been so fun that we need to do again.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: We've done it a couple times, is little free library launch tours.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna let you talk about it because this was actually your genius idea, and we had a blast with this both times.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, both times.
26:48
SPEAKER_02: Although I I I've successfully used this as an excuse to get a new drone, uh what's I, which I got approved on this road trip.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: So look for some great new content coming soon.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh um, but uh we did this, oh man, it was a long time.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: The first one was in Ashland, yeah.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: And then the second was the first year we moved to California, probably seven years ago, or maybe seven or eight years ago when we did the first one.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: But I got this idea of like, hey, we've got all this all these copies of this new book that uh the publisher had sent for I can't remember which book is one of the big shop mysteries.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: But uh, we got all these copies, and you know, we had given some away on a live stream and we had uh given some away on social media giveaways and stuff, but I wanted uh another fun way to give back that we could generate some content for.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: And I thought of this really cool uh shooting a video of Ellie walking around and basically putting copies in as many little free libraries as we could find.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: And we found some of the coolest little free libraries in Jackson County with like Ashland and and talent and uh uh even out well out as far as Jacksonville.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: Um and we shot a little video and I set it to music and everything.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: I think it's up on your Instagram account, right?
28:07
SPEAKER_02: YouTube somewhere, yeah.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: Um but that was so fun uh to just uh, you know, because you wrote fun little notes in in the front of the books and and just, you know, we I don't know, we probably gave away like 30 copies that day.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: So that that was really cool.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And just a way that um a new rate reader might be able to discover your work because they stumble upon a little free library and they happen to pick up your title, and then maybe you have a reader that's interested in previous books in the series or the next book that you write.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think this is a good segue.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna skip down my list to giveaways.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: So what's important to know is in most traditional publishing contracts, you get an allocated number of author copies.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: It can be anywhere from five to twenty five.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm sure some of the giant name authors get thousands, but um, my max that I've ever received from the publishers have been 25.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: And so those copies just come to me.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: They're free to me.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can use them however I want.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: So um a lot of times we've done giveaways.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: That's what we used for little free libraries.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: At this stage of my career, giveaways, I just like it's so fun to be able to share and give back.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: But what I would not want to see a new author do is put a ton of their budget into giveaways.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: You you could do this as an indie author.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, you could order your own author copies, assign them, and put them in little free libraries.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: You could do this as a newly published traditional author too.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: But um, they're kind of giveaways can be a slippery slope because it costs you money.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: And little free libraries was great.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: We spent money on getting a coffee that day and the gas to drive around.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: But anytime we do a giveaway, we are paying ourselves for the cost of shipping those books.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: So that can add up really quickly.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, especially when uh you factor in things like Canada.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: I love you for that.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: I love our Canadian uh readers, love you, love all of you, but um it and they will attest to this.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: It is extremely expensive to ship anything, anything to Canada.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: So you're shipping like a nine-dollar book and it costs$22 to mail it, not counting the price of the packaging and everything, and it takes a while.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: So uh so there is that to consider.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: And I and I would say giveaways are super fun, but they're not they're not gonna move the needle uh for for especially for new authors.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: Like giveaways aren't gonna like grow your readership by you know hundreds or thousands of readers.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh they don't, they just it's just not going to.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: It it's uh it's a fun thing to do to kind of excite, you know, grow excitement within your reader base.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: Give back to your reader base, back to your reader base, everything like that.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: But it's not something that is going to gain you a lot of new readers.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh so that's just something to keep in mind.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: It in addition to what you talked about, which is giveaways are expensive for the person giving away.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if if we gave away 25 copies, um that's 25 shipping packages, the cost of the packaging and the cost of the shipping itself.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: So just that right there, uh you're talking a couple hundred dollars.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's usually about, you know, besides the cost of the book is probably five for domestically to ship something media male, it's probably about five dollars between the packaging and the uh and the uh shipping costs.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: And then there's your time.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like if you're giving away 25 things, that's 25 addresses you have to collect, it's 25 packages you have to put together, it's 25 packages that take to the post office, you know, or put out to for the carrier to pick up.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: It's just a lot of things to factor in.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: So it's definitely giveaways are super fun and readers love them.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: And we have a lot of fun putting them together, but it's just something like don't feel as a new writer, definitely don't feel pressured into having to do them, you know, often frequently make them big.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that could be like one part of your release week.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: You'd you do like one or two giveaways, you give away a few copies at most.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it doesn't need to be something that's ongoing or breaking your bank for sure.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Um one thing that I think is a fantastic use of your time and does not need to cost any money are social collaborations.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: And we have had a blast with these over the years.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm always open and excited to do new social collabs.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Um one off the cuff one that I we just I oh I touched my microphone again.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh we delight uh delighted so much in was um the bros that bunt when nothing but trouble came out.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Um one of the vake shop books.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: I can't even remember what number it is now.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: I think it was 12.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: Um could have been yeah, it was I think uh 11 because they came out late after a couple following.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: I reached out to the bros that bunt, and um they we did a live stream together because this was during COVID, and um then they made they bunted uh cakes from the books.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: So cool.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was super fun.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh and and they were they were just a fun bunch of people too.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they were hilarious.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh it was just a bunch of friends um who met in college.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Who met in college?
33:44
SPEAKER_02: It was like three or four guys and one woman.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: So there's a woman.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: They weren't all broke, but but they were all uh they were all friends, and they just got into vaking bunts of all shapes and sizes, and just they loved it.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and they made some amazing uh bun cakes.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: So I sent them some free copies of the book.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: They made bunts based on the book and then shared it with their audience.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: I shared it with my audience, so it's such great symmetry because you're expanding and getting new readers and they're getting new followers for their baking.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, who else?
34:19
SPEAKER_00: Chell sweets.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, cakes you made for that was for a cup of holidays.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: A holiday for you.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: That was amazing.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: A professional baker, someone who is giant on social media for all of her bakes, reaching out and being like, hey, you know, I have this book coming out.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: I think so this would be so fun to work together.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: Who else?
34:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, Pie Lady Books, if you are a pie fan and a reader, I'm sure you've seen Pie Lady's Gorgeous Pies.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: She hand designs covers um in Pie.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: It's a thing of beauty.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: So every time Living in California, I am in being a child of uh the 70s and 80s, every single time to this day that a California highway patrolman uh drives a uh patrol officer drives by, I get the chip's themed song.
35:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so if you if oh if you knocked out.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: And also a cop just drove by us.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: So there's that, right?
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Um any sort of social collaboration that you can do that again goes back to the idea that you know your book better than anyone else, and you might have a brilliant idea in terms of who that partner or outreach might be too.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and keep in mind with these, um it's it's a good idea to make sure that they're uh that they are.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's a good idea to make sure that the the theme matches your book, that uh you know there we be, that there's some sort of connection.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: Um and then also like with giveaways, some of these collaborations could be free, some of them could be paid.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: I would just I would just stress for the especially the new writers, authors out there, like don't feel like you have to go spend thousands of dollars on doing one of these collaborations.
36:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you don't need to do a collaboration with somebody that has millions of followers.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh it, I mean, that'd be great, but that's gonna cost you a lot of money.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh it it's more, you know, you fight finding the right uh the right people.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: Had you like the bros at Bun is a perfect example.
36:37
SPEAKER_02: Hey, I they had tens of thousands of followers, right?
36:40
SPEAKER_02: I you know, but yeah.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: They weren't they weren't massive.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they had a lot more followers than you did at the time.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: And and they but they just it just fit and it was just such a great It was fun.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: So just just make sure the partnership makes sense for you.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and another thing you don't want to spend thousands of dollars on or go into with the expectation that you know this partnership hits and you're gonna suddenly have 10 million followers yourself.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: That's not the goal.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: The goal is to um just find new ways to make book connections out in the world.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: And that's yeah, I mean, that's that's that's my whole point on like spending a lot of money on those, unless the connection is like super tight, uh you're gonna spend a lot of money and the person, you know, might have one and a half million followers.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: But if, you know one one one million four hundred and ninety-nine thousand of those people don't care about your book, then you're just not gonna grow your readership at all.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: Um let's chat a little bit about live streams.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: On any of the social platforms.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think they're super important.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh people get excited about live, like do like seeing things live.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: Same for me, Air's tour.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: How many times did I watch it live?
37:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna tell you.
38:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I uh I used to like I I remember during uh uh during COVID, when COVID was really bad and like things were locked down and stuff, some of uh our favorite musicians, like the T Sisters, for example, started doing just like they do like a new concert every Wednesday just in their house, you know.
38:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh and they but they would live stream it on Instagram and it was super fun.
38:24
SPEAKER_02: And there were thousands and thousands of people that watched uh and listened uh every time.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: And so we started doing live streams.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: We we used to this goes back to last week's episode of uh uh uh work life uh harmony, but we used to we we did a lot more live streams in the past than we do now.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: Um and we kind of parroted back because we have so many other projects going, it it is really difficult to do them all the time.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: But for for your book launch, a live stream, if you can do one, you know, I think is really important.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just a great way that you can have a party and celebrate your release with a lot of people.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: I always get so excited on live stream night because it's having conversations with you, the darlings.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: Like we all are friends, other people have made friends through the live stream, like there is just such great community that happens.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: I get super excited too.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: After I get everything set up and I hit go live and I see that we're live on all the channels that we're supposed to be live on, then I get excited.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: Then you get excited.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: I get excited, especially when you know then then the sound is working, the things.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: Before before the before the live goes uh is going for the first few minutes, uh it's a little nerve-wracking, but uh weird.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: I never see yes.
39:48
SPEAKER_02: That's why I'm in a different room off camera.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, we're never like this.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Um then one thing that you want to work into your ongoing social plan is consistent posts about the book that's out, yeah, upcoming titles.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: It never ceases to amaze me.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: I will feel like I have posted 10, 15, 20 times about a book that's coming out in the next few months.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: And inevitably I will get an email or a DM from a reader saying, I had no idea that this book was coming out.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Like it's shocking to me.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's well, and this is the if you take nothing else away from this podcast, if you're if you're a writer out there that is looking to get published or is newly published or whatever, social media is a horror and it is a long game.
40:39
SPEAKER_02: You it you very few, like less than 1% of 1% of posts just get put out there and and like are lightning in a bottle.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: The rest of them, there's just hundreds and hundreds of millions of posts that just don't ever are never seen by people's followers.
40:58
SPEAKER_02: And so it doesn't matter if you have 200 followers or 200,000 followers, most of your posts aren't going to be seen by the majority of your following.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: And you're saying follow people who are actively following, following not just trying to reach new readers or yeah.
41:14
SPEAKER_02: So most of your posts are not going to be seen by the majority of your following.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh so you know that that is that that sounds terrible, and it really is if you put a lot of work into your social media content, but that's why it is a long game, because you have to build on on what you're doing.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: You have to keep posting and getting engagement, and the algorithm will pick that up and say, okay, this person is putting out meaningful content that their followers enjoy and they're engaging with it.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: They're not just liking it and scrolling right by, they're commenting on it, they're sharing it.
41:53
SPEAKER_02: So speaking of which, when you see Ellie's content, don't just like it and scroll on by, comment on it, share with a friend, please, because that's the only way that word gets spread.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: Because, like you, I it never ceases to amaze me.
42:08
SPEAKER_02: We put in so much work, and then a month after a book is out, somebody will comment on a post because you keep posting about the book, and they'll be like, Oh, a new bake shop.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: And we're like, What?
42:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is the first time, you know.
42:23
SPEAKER_02: It just uh it is funny, but um, it's important to keep that up.
42:28
SPEAKER_02: You might feel like you're just bombarding your followers with news about this book that released, you know, within the last week or month or whatever.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: But I can guarantee you that a very, very tiny percentage of your audience has actually seen the two or more of those posts the whole time that you've been communicating that stuff.
42:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying post every day, like three times a day about your book.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: That's not gonna help.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: That's actually gonna drive your engagement or average rate uh or uh down.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I am saying like, don't worry if you're posting uh, you know, two or three times a week about the book, and then, you know, maybe the other days of the week posting about something you're doing for the book, you know, um, but you should keep that, keep that going.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you want to consistently do that throughout the year too.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Um press outreach is another key thing, and there's a whole piece that you do pre-launch.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I'm not just talking about like traditional press, like your local ABC, NBC affiliate.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're doing some kind of really cool big launch, you're partnering with your local coffee shop for this coffee tasting, like why not?
43:40
SPEAKER_00: Send a press release out about that.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, will they cover it?
43:44
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
43:45
SPEAKER_00: There's a better chance that they would cover that than uh, you know, just like an unknown author doing their first book signing.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: I am encompassing things like book tubertubers, um, any books to Instagrammers, podcasts.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: They're talking about like social media book too, right?
44:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I do think that there's there is a place for traditional media too, as long as you're doing the right kind of pitch.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: And we go into this in more detail into the course because if you're talking about sending a true press release, then you need to have some hooks in there.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: But um reaching out to bookstagrammers, booktubers to see if you can do a live stream together with them, maybe go live on Instagram together or um send them a copy of your book, any kind of outreach that you can do on that.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: Podcasters.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: Podcasters, exactly.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: Reach out to your favorite podcasters and see if they're interested in guests.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: Hint hint.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: We might have some guests coming in 2025.
44:47
SPEAKER_02: Maybe in the backseat.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: This could be it's like carpool karaoke.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, carpool.
44:55
SPEAKER_02: Reality rights on the wheels.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: Reality rights on the wheels.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yes.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: I'd love it.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's another thing to do throughout the year.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: Um and watching for opportunities like that that might come out.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: We this is just a small portion.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: We need part two in to go deeper into this into the course because there are multiple things that we're not even gonna have time to touch on in this one.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: But um, I'm rounding out last, but certainly not least.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: And if anything, I think you in particular would say perhaps the most important.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: An author newsletter.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
45:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, an author newsletter is is like you just it's a mandatory as far as I'm concerned.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: Because, and here's the thing like, yes, it's one more thing that you have to do content-wise.
45:47
SPEAKER_02: You have to come up with things to say to your subscribers.
45:50
SPEAKER_02: You have to get a service that will let you, you know, keep subscribers and send newsletters to them and everything.
45:57
SPEAKER_02: There are a million of those out there.
45:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh, Flowdesk, you know, Mailer Lite, uh, MailChimp, like all these, um I are great examples of services that help you with uh newsletter and newsletter marketing and stuff.
46:13
SPEAKER_02: But the the number one reason is what we just talked about, where we covered with social media.
46:19
SPEAKER_02: When you send out, you know, when you post on like Instagram, for example, and let's say you have 10,000 followers, or like a couple hundred of your followers that are going to see that post uh until then they do that uh as a test to see, okay, what's the engagement like?
46:33
SPEAKER_02: And if the engagement is really high, then a few hundred more followers will see it.
46:37
SPEAKER_02: Then if the engagement is still high, maybe a couple thousand followers will see it, and so on and so forth.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: But if you send out a post and there's little to no engagement, that's it.
46:47
SPEAKER_02: That's it's done.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: You're it like none of your followers are gonna see that.
46:51
SPEAKER_02: With an email newsletter, your engagement rate is gonna be a lot higher because that is going to make it into almost everybody's inbox.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, and there we could go on.
47:03
SPEAKER_02: That we have a whole episode on this because there are a lot of things that you need to do to make sure they don't get captured by spam filters, so on and so forth.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: But but you also own that subscription list too.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: You don't own your your Instagram follower list.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: Like Instagram could decide tomorrow they're locking everybody's account, and you gotta pay a hundred dollars a month to access, you know, your your followers.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: Or like TikTok.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: If it's going away later at the end of this month, I have 10,000 plus 14,000.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but now like TikTok followers and all the content that I like.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: Save it.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: And uh and let them know do not ban TikTok.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: But anyway, um, you don't own those the the list of your followers.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, that is 100% the content of the social media platform, and they decide not only who sees your content, but if anyone sees your content at all.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: Whereas with an email newsletter, you own all of that content.
48:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, you can run giveaways through your newsletter, and you don't have to adhere to all the extra rules and everything that the social media platforms make people adhere to.
48:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, you can uh, you know, you you can control the frequency a lot better.
48:19
SPEAKER_02: There's no algorithm, it's just like going to be uh you go it into people's inboxes and they will uh you know open it as they as they see fit.
48:30
SPEAKER_02: So um is it also doesn't go away.
48:32
SPEAKER_02: That's the other thing with some of the like the feeds are just like never-ending uh on social media, never-ending um feeds of content.
48:41
SPEAKER_02: And so unless they open it up at the right time, they might not see yours.
48:45
SPEAKER_02: Yours might already be buried under a hundred other posts, whereas the newsletter, yes, so go into the inbox and and you know, maybe somebody has thousands of messages in there, but it's still in there and they can search for it and find it a lot easier than they can any social media post.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: And the last thing that I'll say about newsletters is you can have a lot of fun with them.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: I love writing the newsletter.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: I love sending it out because then readers email me and we I get to hear stories about your lives, darlings, and um, we get to have a conversation back and forth, which is so lovely.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: And I have friends who do really fun, interesting, cool things with our newsletter.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: I have a friend who um she sends out a she actually lays out a newspaper each month from her village that she writes about and sends that to her newsletter subscribers.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: So if you are a writer and you're thinking about what you're gonna do with your newsletter, use it as a way to expand the world that you're writing about too, and give readers a taste of your process, of your characters, anything like that.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it is it is great.
49:49
SPEAKER_02: Um and there's so many benefits.
49:51
SPEAKER_02: And and it's uh, like I said, you you own that list.
49:55
SPEAKER_02: So what do you care?
49:57
SPEAKER_02: You can guarantee that your readership is going to be able to get the news that you want them to get about your books.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: That was um exhausting, and literally there was so much more that we could add, but it's all part of the process of being a writer in 2025 and beyond.
50:16
SPEAKER_00: So with that, we're signing out to this episode of Reality Rights on Wheels and saying, until next time, darling.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: Until next time.