Latest / Hook,Line,&SinkHer / Season 1 Episode 4 Reeling In Productivity: ADHD Hacks That Work

Transcript

Season 1 Episode 4 Reeling In Productivity: ADHD Hacks That Work · Hook,Line,&SinkHer

• Jayson St.Croix: Welcome back to Hook Line & SinkHer Her, the podcast where we cast out big questions, real and honest conversations, and occasionally get distracted by whatever shiny object just floated by. I'm Jayson and joining me, as always, is Dr. Amy St. Croix. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Morning. I'm Dr. Amy St. Croix, and as always, my work really sits at that intersection between education, ADHD, medicine, and that legal analysis, where those four worlds overlap so much more than most people realize. And let's get started because I hear there's a special guest in the house, and I still don't know who it is. Jayson St.Croix: That's right. And we got someone hopping in the boat with us today as well. Let's see if we can get her on board. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Jen O'Malley. Listen, I Jenn: Hi, Amy. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I thought that it was you, but then I was like, okay, so she's coming up to see me, she's coming up to see me. And then you posted on Facebook like 12 minutes ago, and Jenn: I did it. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I was like, ugh, it can't be O'Malley because she can't post in the car on the way here. So I didn't realize you were gonna be at home doing this. That's so awesome. Jenn: yeah, we surprised you. Jayson St.Croix: So good Jenn: Good morning. Jayson St.Croix: morning. Hopping in the boat with us this morning is Ms. Jennifer O'Malley. Ms. O'Malley, why don't you give the audience a little bit of background and history about yourself? Jenn: Sure. I have been in education for twenty-four years. eleven as an administrator, thirteen, I think the math adds up, maybe. as a an ELA teacher teaching high school English, which vary between like college and remedial English. But really my focus the last eleven years has been administration and I've loved the work that I've been able to do and the challenge that it presents like really pushes me to get into and how each day is different. I think that's the biggest part of it. It's not predictable. I walk in and we just go. We hit the ground running and that's the best usual part of my day. Jayson St.Croix: Awesome. Amy talks about that all the time, is why would you want to have two days that are the same? Especially when you work in education. Jenn: Yeah, it's it makes it makes for an interesting job for sure. Jayson St.Croix: So before we get started, I have to ask, do I have any chance of keeping this episode between our targeted twenty five to thirty five minutes? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: We weren't last episode. It was like forty minutes. Jenn: Yeah. I had to watch the last one in two parts because I was like, Okay, I'm good now. Now I gotta start part two the next time. Yeah. So maybe we'll see. Jayson St.Croix: Alright, so today's topic is one that feels like a never-ending puzzle for most of us, especially for those with ADHD. And today's topic is productivity. Now I know that just hearing the word productivity can be enough to send anyone with ADHD over the falls. It's like having a dozen lines cast out into the water at once, all tangled together with no real idea which one to reel in first, right? Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Sometimes. Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Sometimes. Jayson St.Croix: So today we're not chasing perfection. We're actually talking about what actually works, what sounds good on paper, but what flops in real life and how to get things done when your brain has other plans. I know we all have those go-to strategies that keep us from drifting too far off course, even if they don't always work perfectly. So let's start with our baited question of the day. What's one productivity hack that has actually worked to help you untangle those lines? Dr. St. Croix, what's the trick that keeps you, or at least mostly, on track or in true ADHD style, at least get you back on track when things go off the rails? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, so I'm super old school. it's gotta be pen and paper and it well, it's never pen. Pen's ridiculous. It's always pencil. And it has to be my lucky pencil as both of you know. But it's and it doesn't have to necessarily be pencil and paper. For me, it's really a whiteboard. I always had one in my offices as an administrator, the big ones, right? The like eight, what are they? Like eight, twelve. I'm looking at the wall because I have one on it. Like eight foot ones. and then when we opened up the firm, you know, we obviously purchased one for here as well. But it takes up my entire wall, it's categorized into you know different spaces of my world. Each one is a different color, and then there's a to-do list within that appropriate color and I'm able to check the box because there's literally a checkbox next to each item that I draw in and then I check it off. And this is the best tip ever. You can't start off with no check boxes. Like no checks in your boxes, right? So you always have to choose one item that you've already accomplished and put it on there and put the check in it. Because then that way you already feel accomplished. Jayson St.Croix: How about for you, Ms. O'Malley? Jenn: I am very similar to Amy, and Amy actually helped me as as a starting principal organize my thoughts, right? So we walk in. and we have what's going on live, right? Day to day, our chaos that we're just like walking into. But then we have all of these other things that we need to do throughout the day to make sure that we're getting the other stuff done. So what I do first thing in the morning is I write my list. Just like Amy said, I I do write every single d thing down in a notebook. I don't have a special pen or pencil, but I get it down on paper and that helps my brain organize exactly what I need to do so I can focus and not be thinking about all the other stuff. Once it's on paper, it's real. And that's the same thing for my calendar as well. I tried the digital thing. It didn't work for me. But my calendar runs my day as far as like my appointments and things like that. So if it's not on my calendar, if it's not on my list, it does not happen. And that's like the truth. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: And I don't know Jen, how you feel about this? But you know, now it's a little bit different, right? Like I don't have our director of operations manage my calendar, I manage it here at the firm. But even when I was an administrator, my administrative assistants did not manage my calendar because it needed to be done digitally and I didn't want it digitally. So if Jenn: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: like I didn't like give up that control of the calendar to someone else entirely to manage, because it had to be written down for me. I I don't know Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: how you you do that or how you manage it, but for me I was like hands off. Jenn: I have someone who helps with that, but I tell them, I'm like, if it is not there, it doesn't happen. So the littlest thing that you think I might want to attend or see or be part of, it needs to be on there or I'm not leaving to do it. It's it sounds crazy, but it helps me keep motivated throughout my day as well and not get distracted doing something else because I could hang out with kids all day long because that's the best part of my day. But I do have a thousand other things I have to focus on. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Do you think part of that is is knowing what's coming too? Because like I find myself, I'll I'll give you an example. The other day I had like an 8 :30, a nine o'clock, a 10 o'clock, and a one o'clock. And in my brain, I was just checking those off the list. And then once I got to that one o'clock, you know, not that it was difficult by any means, it was actually someone that I enjoy spending time with that I was like, then I was done and I could kinda like do you does does the calendar also help you mentally prepare so that there's no surprises? Jenn: It does. I don't like pop-ins, I guess, like surprises, but I'm okay if it happens, right? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Yeah. Jenn: I think for me, it's more of like a focus issue. So if I know I have to really like lock in and focus on writing something for, you know, my staff or myself or whatever, I have to be in that mindset to know that I can stop, lock in, and have zero distractions. And Whatever or wherever that falls on my calendar that day, I let everybody know. I'm locking down, don't bother me, and make sure like nobody is like knocking on the door. Because that's the only way I get things done. On the weekends, it's surprising because that's when I really am the most productive because I'm able to do it in my own home, you know, at my own pace, in the comfort of like I'm crisscross applesauce right now in my chair. You know what I mean? I'm able to do. what I want to do when I want to do it. And that to me allows me to focus in a way that I can't at work. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: And I I personally, and I know you're gonna be able to relate to this just with all of the work that we've done together. Environment is enormous to my productivity. If Jenn: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: things are messy, it's not happening. If and and I know you know this, when some when my brain has to completely latch on to something, what happens? Where do I go? Jenn: You have to Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Floor. Yeah. The floor, right? Jenn: you ha right on the floor. Right on the floor. And I have pictures to prove this. And Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jenn: I sent them to you to remind you like You're crazy. But I've Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jenn: never seen anyone do that either. But that's your thing and that's what works. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It totally works. When it's like top notch critical analysis thinking and I'm like super stressed and anxious and need to come up with a response straight to the floor. Jenn: It's your grounding Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jenn: like tool. Like for me, is going outside, it's getting fresh air, it's being quiet, listening to music, which is constantly playing in the background for me because it's it just, I don't know, it like narrows me down into what I really truly need to focus on. It's funny you mentioned like the cleaning thing or whatever. I'm I was thinking like, as I'm my daughter who's also like learning she was just diagnosed with ADHD, we're learning what works for her and what doesn't work for her. And now that she's in college, I told her two things this week because she was feeling a little overwhelmed. And I said, I used to do two things. And this is before I even knew that I had ADHD. As soon as I would get home in my dorm, I'd have to clean everything. Everything would have to be organized for me to sit down and be able to focus. The other thing is if I could not motivate myself to do work in my room, I had to go to a separate location. So the library, although it sounds super nerdy. That's where I had to go. I had to find my place to be able to lock in and do that. So we're learning. It's fun to watch her go through it and be able to like navigate this with her and help her because now that I know what I know as an adult with an ADHD, that's all it was back then. And I was learning coping mechanisms and skills to help me get what I needed done. Jayson St.Croix: So Jen, I have a follow up question for you. Was that something that you discovered on your own, or did someone teach that to you? Jenn: The coping skills. Jayson St.Croix: Wha coming back to the dorm, get clean, get or Jenn: That's just me. That's just me. Because the first semester of college, and I have no problem talking about this. Like I almost flunked out. Like I like to party was one thing. But the other part of it is I didn't know how to study. I didn't know how to lock in. I didn't know how to learn. And I always thought it was okay, I'm just not understanding. I must not be studying enough. There's I must be distracted, whatever. When truly I just there was other things going on in my brain that I couldn't shut off enough to be able to focus in on what I needed to. So, you know, through trial and error and learning that like, okay, second semester, like this isn't gonna work what I'm doing. I have to try something different. That's when I was able to truly understand what I needed and get to where, you know, get where I needed to be. Jayson St.Croix: Right. So Dr. St.Croix I have a question for you. Because I've seen that massive to do list that just keeps growing on your whiteboard Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: in your office. How long did that actually take for you to become a habit? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: My first my first administrative position because as an administrator and in that role I was an assistant principal so I when I got to that office, I did not have a whiteboard. So things were written down because it you know, I mean everybody knows what an you know an administrator's busy, obviously. But I don't know that unless you sit in that seat you really understand the moving parts. So for example, you know, you might people might say as an assistant principal, you do discipline. Yep, true, absolutely. So it might look like Like one aspect that you tackle. But in reality, you know, you're doing suspension re-admit conferences, which you have to have paperwork prepared for, you have to have the meeting set, you know, you have to make sure that everything's been communicated to the families, all of those kinds of things. And then, you know, then you start the referrals for that particular day, and then you also have to account for any children that may have been absent the day before and you didn't get to meet with them, and then there's always Always those you know sp those spontaneous behaviors that happen because anywhere in the middle of that quote unquote to-do list, you could get a fight, right? And then everything's thrown off and it's thrown off for hours. Like I don't think that people who haven't gone through that understand that one fight in a middle school or a high school takes an administrator, what Jen, two to four hours to deal with. Jenn: I've seen nothing. Yeah, depending on the situation Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Okay. Jenn: for sure. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely. I mean, if you're talking with other kids, if somebody's hurt, by the time you contact parents, you know, here in New York State, families are allowed a conference, you know, when their child is suspended. So if you have a family that wants to Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: meet with the administrator and go through, you know, the details, everything that happened, you know, that could be a good hour of your time as it is, and an hour well spent. It's none Jenn: Mm-hmm Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: of it's wasted, it's just the length of of time that it takes. So it was my first position as an administrator that I was like, whoa. There's a lot going on here, you better get it together because Jenn: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: a a paper list just isn't happening, right? And then you know, when we talk about discipline, we also talk about things like the New York State reporting that has to coincide with that, right? So that in itself is a whole to-do list to meet that need, even though it's under the topic of discipline. So, like for instance, on my boards, and I know Jen seen this before, I literally would have a section that was New York State Reporting and I would list all the VR reports and the dates of when they were due next to them and that would stay there all year and I would just move through them. So Jayson St.Croix: So let let's talk about distractions because I'm pretty sure the culprit that we mentioned in the last episode about distractions like birds flying outside of your window might be on the show with us today, maybe? Jenn: I like birds. Jayson St.Croix: She's I think she's gonna plead the fifth on that one. But I'm curious how how do you handle distractions? Because you mentioned in your day to day when you were an administrator and Jen you're currently an administrator. How do you handle the distractions throughout the day? Do you have any tips or tricks to help? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Sometimes not well. Jenn: Sometimes you just embrace them. You just embrace it, like Jayson St.Croix: so what but that's that's important for our listeners to also know what doesn't work. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It and I'm gonna be honest and Jen, you know, you pop in too. I you know, there's days that you're just like, that's today, like it's not happening. Like we we're and you just kinda go with it. And and then there's other days where you're like, you know, it it's much more productive. But I think that as an administrator, what makes it like it's double-edged, right? Like you you want the routine and you want the consistency and you want the go go go go go because that's what inherently you know you need as someone with ADHD. And and why I personally went into administration was because I couldn't teach English six times a day over and over again, right? I needed that spontaneous piece of my day. But at the same time, that's also the struggle of it. So it's really funny how it it's its pro is its can. Jenn: And it's like the energy that you feed off of with other people that are around you too, right? Like, so you walk in and you see, like, you know, somebody's having a tough day and you're you're with them. And then you are walking into a classroom and the kids are doing this awesome project, or you're walking back to your office realizing you have a million things to do when you sit down. And it's just it's like the mood regulation too in your own self. Like, where are you? And where are you showing up for other people? Because a lot of it is like you have to go from a very serious conversation and you have to really be locked into going and laughing with your coworkers about something that Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm. Jenn: just, you know, happened. And you gotta allow yourself to just be present. I think that's the the easiest and hardest thing to do is just being present and being there for people who need you the most. I mean, we are there and we are there to serve. And, you know, you we all do it in a different way. But like for me this year, my biggest goal is visibility. I want people to see me. I want people to and the kids, you know, to be able to come up to me and talk to me. And so I am actively telling myself every single day, get out. Go see people, go talk to people because we can also get locked into our offices and not leave because we do have those to do lists that last forever. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: And I just think it like for me when I was an administrator, I can think of in each of the districts that I was in, it's a lonely job. So if you don't have a colleague that helps balance you when those situations are tough, for someone with ADHD, that makes it tougher. So like, you know, if you can't go in and be yourself with a colleague and kind of let that go and have them pull you back, those are tough days, man. Jenn: huh. Jayson St.Croix: You're referring to the pictures I get with your feet against the wall laying on the floor in Ms. O'Malley's office where you can go and be Jenn: Okay. Jayson St.Croix: yourself, no? Is it easier to avoid the distractions in those people or is it easier to plan around them? Jenn: I don't think you can do either. It's it's it's just it's real life. It's like live feed, right? You just you think you can prevent things from happening and you don't. I go in with here's what I'm gonna do every day, and 80% of the time, it's nothing on that list. I leave my office and I joke I have 10 more things added to my list the minute I leave. And that's a good thing, right? Because we're active and we're present and we're helping. But it also makes it difficult to get everything done. Like you talk about those checkboxes. I could get through two of a list of 20 for the day. And people are waiting for you, right? They're waiting for your responses. They're waiting for your leadership. They're waiting for you to really kind of like take hold of situations. And it's hard when you can't get everything done and you have a hundred people that are looking for answers. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: In you know, we're talking about our perspective, Jen, of being administrators, but you Jenn: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: know, in the perspective of our listeners, like if you're a parent and you and you have a child with ADHD, as we're talking about this, your student has just as many demands in a day. They just look different. And the Jenn: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: thing is, is that that you know, parents need to understand that in our world, you know, maybe going from the transition from the bus to the classroom or maybe maybe from the transition of breakfast and then to the classroom, and you know, putting all your things away, and then getting into that focus of what you're gonna do for the day. You got like this is the thing that I talk about all the time is that the expectations in a educational setting are so different than in a home setting. You're hearing Jen and I talk about the strategies that we put in place every day. There is no child in a school that is being allowed an eight-foot white board To put their list in place for the day. So we're Jenn: It's true, that's true. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: already making those kids, you know, anxious about because the older we get, just naturally we have the flexibility to implement our own strategies. So I just want to make sure that, you know, Jen and I are sharing from the admin world because that's so much of what we've lived over decades, right? And as adults, we have a different brain to really go through this. But if we think about it from a kid perspective, if I could give a strategy to parents or to you know teachers, not even just teachers, I would say educational staff in general, it would really be allow a little bit of flexibility. Like flexibility, it it's a balance, right? You gotta have the rigid, you gotta have the procedures, but at the same time, it's gotta work for the person that that has the ADHD. Would you agree with that, Jen? Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: I wanna go Yeah. Jenn: And I can can I can I add on to that? Because with my own children, I learned that because I kind of like when I say I want something done, like let's say you gotta clean your room, right? I want it done like now. And that's not how it works. So like I have changed the way I have approached it by saying by the end of the week, I need you to. And that allows them and their busy days to kind of like figure out when they're gonna do it. So, like, you know, my own my own daughter last night, she has a friend coming over today and she's like, All right, I know you asked me all week, I'm getting it done. She did it all night last night and she was up late, but she got it done. And she came out this morning saying, I got my clothes put away, I got them folded, I got them hung, I got everything cleaned. So, like on her time. She was able to do that, but still meet my expectation. So we both win at the end of the day, right? It's Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Right. Jenn: just me. I kind of have to let go of my rigidness sometimes with saying, if if I'm asking you now, my brain's saying, do it now. That's not how her brain is working. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: And I think it's not even honestly about within her time, totally agree with that. But it's also terms. Because, Jenn: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: like, for instance, I have literally said to our daughter, you need to clean your bathroom today. And she's like, Nope, now it's not happening. Because in my mind I was going to clean my bathroom today. But now that you told me I had to do it today, I can't do it today. Like Jenn: Yarp. I've had that same thing, yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It's so that that definitely is a strategy is knowing to give that flexibility that they can you know that we can set our brain up for it, right? And that it works within our own time and our own terms. And I think yeah. Jenn: Or even giving like menu options, like we talk about that in education. But like you Jayson St.Croix: Choice boards. Jenn: have, if you want them to get 10 things done this week, give them the list early on. And then when they feel like, because I don't always feel like sitting down to write. Sometimes I feel like being visible and out in classrooms, for example, like it's it's a feeling too. I can't push myself enough to get that task done. So I'm gonna do something else that I can get done in that moment. And you're still finding that productivity. You know, and that's success. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, yeah. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, I I'll never forget the time that I had a trick my daughter into doing her English paper and I tricked her into doing it by recording a podcast using a tech tool and then I said, Nope, listen to it because she didn't want to write, right? So no pun intended, but so she auditorily gave her report. on this tool and then I said, all right, listen to it. Now all you gotta do is write it down. It's already done. And she Jenn: Yep. Jayson St.Croix: was like, that that's kind of a Jedi move. But I wanted you guys are so good. the other D word that brings about angst and anxiety with ADHD is deadlines. And you two kind of briefly mentioned deadlines and how you cope with them. You two are Jenn: Mm-hmm. Jayson St.Croix: very highly successful women with ADHD who also have daughters with ADHD. Do you guys handle deadlines the same as you would recommend for your daughters or do they have different strategies? And you kind of mentioned how you would do it and they would do it. But how do deadlines affect you guys with ADHD? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: So our daughter is a procrastinator. She waits until the very last minute to do it. And then sometimes it does cause a meltdown. I mean that that is a real Jenn: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: thing that we do see. So I do really try to I I I I just I I wanna say they're reminders, but I honestly think I'm nagging. You know, don't forget your class your assignments were released. How are you doing on them? You know, kind of a thing when I know she's in there on Saturday and Sunday evening just cranking them out because they're due, right? Where I really I just don't have an issue with deadlines. My personality and what I need is I need it to be done early. I'm not a last dayer, I'm not a procrastinator. In any capacity. So I don't know. Deadlines aren't really an issue for me, but I know they are for our daughter. Jenn: Yeah, for me it's work is not a problem. It's funny, I was just talking to my husband the other day about how I at work am a completely different person. I'm super organized, I hit every deadline, I'm ahead of every deadline because I know what's to come. It's home that I struggle with deadlines and getting things done and keeping up on things because this is my safe place probably. And I know that I'm not gonna be yelled at if I don't get the laundry done or I s you know, have to get a card out or whatever the the case may be. So, you know, it's it's interesting too that there's two different sides to me and how I manage my life. Work Jen is very different than home Jen as well. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: So we we talked about that last episode, Jen, and how, you know, we have kids, you know, we were specifically talking about girls last episode, right? And how girls you know, don't present with those external behaviors at school. So Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: everything is great. And then they get home and it's like, whoa, because they've essentially kept it together all day, right? So Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: we talk about how that's their safe space. So kind of the same concept for you Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: is that when you get home it's okay to, you know, the consequences, yeah, yeah. Jenn: Let's go. Yeah. It's interesting too. I did, you know, the last episode I watched and I was thinking about like my journey throughout this too. And you talked a little bit about misdiagnosis. And I was misdiagnosed for years and years and years with anxiety. And so, Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jenn: you know, I was medicated for that. And I could never understand why all of these thoughts and like you mentioned, like the tabs being open. You had a hundred tabs open, but I could never shut any of them. off and so the anxiety what they thought it was was you know the medication wasn't working and I was actually feeling worse right yeah Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Right. We we used to talk about that. I remember those conversations. And I would be like, I have that, but I don't have anxiety. Like this is not you know, and I I would talk about my medication versus your medication. And Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I would be like, No, like as soon as I take it, this is what happens. but I remember having those conversations that Our symptoms were the same or similar, obviously, but our diagnoses were different. Because because you were misdiagnosed. Jenn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't until I I started right. And I started like meeting with the right person. And she's like, Do you think that this might be it? And I said, Yeah, let's do the test. And she we do the test and she's like, Wow, you passed with flying colors. And I was like, Awesome. Like this is great because now it like everything makes sense, right? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jenn: And even I mean, that was Five years ago now, and I'm still Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jenn: learning about it because even five years ago, six years ago, no one talked about ADHD like they talk about it now. And I think that's the part that's like the most beautiful thing about this is like we don't have to hide anymore. We don't have to like say, it's anxiety. It's just it is what it is, and this is how we're gonna move forward. It's not a big deal. Let's figure it out and we'll keep moving forward. Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm. Jenn: And then share our stories too, right? So that others who are struggling and not understanding what's going on. That might be the missing link for them too. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, definitely. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, hopefully hopefully through these honest conversations that you like you two are having right here today with our audience, they can you guys can share your stories and they can see it's not that uncommon, right? It it's present, it's prevalent. Jenn: Mm-hmm. Jayson St.Croix: So is are there certain times of the day that it's easier for you guys to focus than others? I know your answer. Jen? Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely. You know my answer. Jenn: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. first thing in the morning, I am the best. Midday is the worst. And then usually nighttime, like it's funny, like work not so much, but I also do photography on the side is like my creative outlet. And that's when I I am able to lock in for hours in front of my computer to edit and have no problem at all. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Hyper focus. Jenn: Hyper focus a hundred percent because I enjoy what I'm doing and it's creative. It's a different part of my brain that I'm using. So when and it's funny, this morning Jayson St.Croix: That's coming that's coming next week. Jenn: when I was posting, that's what I was posting. And I'm like, Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jenn: okay, I'm not thinking literally about anything else but this right now. And it it kind of caught me in a you know, knowing that here I am today, but it's a real thing. Jayson St.Croix: Right. Dr. St.Croix why why don't you let the audience I I know your answer, but why don't you let the audience know about your view? Yep. Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well we've talked about we've Yeah. It it's the earlier the better. I'm more productive at five o'clock in the morning than I am at four o'clock in the afternoon. I am literally toast by four o'clock. And that doesn't mean that I stop working at four. It just means, because there's some nights that, you know, I'm here at the office until late, very late. but I don't the productivity is not as good as it is in the morning. I'm very sharp in the morning. Jayson St.Croix: Okay, let's talk about Jenn: Okay. Jayson St.Croix: tools and apps. We know technology is becoming more and more increasingly in our kids' hands as well as ours. Is there a go-to tool or app that helps with your ADHD or to help you stay organized, stay on track, or stay focused that you use? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely not. They they're awful. So Jenn: Me neither, me neither. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: No? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: you have to and I understand that there's people that will listen and be like, what? Like I use my notes section and my phone and I have you know all that N for me, absolutely not. First of all, if you think about the transition of just picking up the phone to access the app, there's a great chance I'm not going straight to that app. It's just not gonna happen, right? I'm gonna go over and watch TikTok for a little bit. I might go, you know, check and see if I what flights are maybe on sale, like that's a realistic thing. But just getting to the app has barriers for me. And then once I get in it, if I I have to go to multiple steps. Like I know you know, Jayson we use Slack a lot. And I get frustrated with that because just the way that it's set up, there's lots of different spaces that I have to go to. And and I don't like that. I can get lost within those spaces. And it's Jenn: I forget some things that's going to be Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: just too many steps. Like I I just need to get it done. The only tech that I can think of that I really do like that helps me. Is this gonna sound bizarre to our listeners, but I know Jayson you know exactly what I'm talking about. I get anxiety needing to get the mail, and I know you know that. I will go days and days and weeks and not get the mail if someone else doesn't go get it. That gives me extreme anxiety. So the Post Office allows you to sign up for an email that Jenn: It's crazy. I are we at like the same person? Kiko. 100%. 100%. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Do you use that? Do you Yeah. So you can you sign up to see what's coming in the mail. So like I can prep myself for what's gonna be in the mailbox. So I go to the app, or well it's an email technically, but I go to the email and I look to see what's in there. And when my brain can go, okay, it it's gonna be okay. It it's just ads today, right? Or it's just that I'm like, all right, and I go that's the day I go get the mail. So that is a tool electronically, technologically, Jenn: That's Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: that works for me. But beyond that, I really don't have a tech piece that I am comfortable using on a regular basis. Jenn: Yeah, the only thing really for me that works is like text message. So, like the other night I had to bring in like a projector for one of my staff members to use. And I said, just text me. I'm not going to look at the text, but I need to see that little red, you know, indicator the next morning to remind me to bring it in. Like, could I have just gotten up, put it in my car in that moment? Sure. But I wasn't doing that, right? I was like couch rotting at the moment and I just wanted to be, you know, done with the day. So she's like, yeah sure, does it real quick and it was an easy transition. But like like Amy said, it's just another thing. I don't need another thing. I just need to get it done. So that no technology really works for me either. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. I will sometimes set an alarm for myself, like as a reminder. Like for instance, Let's say if I don't even know, say something needs to be done at home. let's just say I have to call the vet for the dog, right? And I can't call because they're closed and I need to call the next day. If I have if I know I have an eight o'clock meeting and I'm gonna be, you know, on the go right from the beginning, at like nine thirty, I'll set an alarm for myself and the alarm will indicate call that. And then the alarm Jenn: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: goes off and it reminds me to do it. So I will do that. That is a strategy that I do utilize regularly especially with appointments and with the kids. But as far as like an actual app, I don't I definitely don't have one. Jenn: Aim, do you remember the summer when I sent you a screenshot? Or and I was like, my ADHD is really ADHD. ADHD to and so what Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yes, ADHD. Jenn: I did is I put everything because I couldn't get started, I couldn't get motivated. And so I put everything my list into chat GBT and I said prioritize this list for me and it spit it back out. And I was like, Okay, I could do this, I Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jenn: could do this, I could do that. And for whatever reason that day, that's what I needed and I got it all done. But I it was funny, I remember texting you that I'm like, I just it's bad today. Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It it's happening. Yeah, Jayson St.Croix: So Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: it's happening. Jayson St.Croix: maybe I poorly worded the question for you guys then because that's what I was thinking of, Jen, is there are some apps and tools out there to help us with things like that. For instance, if we have a kid that's struggling with executive functioning skills, there's this tool called Goblin Tools Magic To Do. You put in a topic, and I'm gonna be real simple and crude, how to make a peanut butter jelly. And then you can have this tool break it down into all those steps that we would want for executive functioning to s help support those children. And you could you Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: So that's that's something Jays that like I didn't know that existed. Would would it be possible for us to make a resource of potential technology apps for our listeners and put it up on the we could either put it on the podcast social media so that they could have that because Jenn: Me neither. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: that's something that like I didn't know that app existed, did you, Jen? Jenn: No, not at all. And for me, like I kind of like have figured out what works now, but for a kid who Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Right. Jenn: is learning those coping skills, that could be a good resource for them. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely. Jayson St.Croix: Selfishly I was hoping you guys were gonna kick this back to me because you know you like to give me a little nickname around the office here, but you didn't it. You took it yourself. That's okay. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Tech guy, I just told you to make the resource. Jayson St.Croix: But there's other ones that like tab groups. You guys mentioned having a hundred tabs open on your computer. I group mine. So every tab or every tab that I have associated with Hook, Line, & SinkHer for whether it's a script, production dates, deadlines, editing, I have all those on Google Docs. I literally click Hook, Line, & SinkHer and they all condense under that tab group. So that would stress you out. It that helps keep that helps keep me organized. Jenn: That's stressing me out. What's he saying there? Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yes! You talking about it stresses me. I'm like, where is Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: he doing this? Are they all at the top of his screen? And then you say Google Doc, and I'm like, does he have this on paper? Like where is this located? Jayson St.Croix: No. It's all organized and color coded Jenn: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: across the top of my bar if I were to share my screen right now. But I use the notes app in my phone spreadsheets with check boxes. You do yours on a whiteboard. I do mine. You've seen the s spreadsheets I make for me. Visual timers are another easy one. And you know, if you type in your Google search bar, if you type set five minute timer, do you know it pops up? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: A five minute timer. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: A five minute timer. It's that's it's that simple to stay on task. You know, I'm gonna give myself five minutes to research Disney prices or Morgan Whalen concert tickets, and then after that Jenn: It's Whalen Jayson St.Croix: Whatever and after that five minutes, you know what, I gotta get back on task. But Jenn: And he came out with a new song this Friday, so you know, just saying. Keep going. I went on a side quest. Jayson St.Croix: I can't wait to listen to it. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I'm right. Jayson St.Croix: sh Shiny object, there it goes. Jenn: Yep, there it goes. Jayson St.Croix: But there's immersive reader, there's also extensions to help the distractions on the screen. So if you have a kid that has problems focusing on reading, I can get rid of all the space around the text so that the kid can only and I say kid, but you know, the student can only focus on the text at hand. It removes all the distractions. There's lots of tools and resources like that out there. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: So we need you to do that for us and for our listeners. We need a resource put out there that at least lets adults, regardless if it's their educators, if it's their parents, you know, guardians, whoever it is, at least let them have the knowledge that these things exist. And I'm not saying, you know, for me, I don't don't want to try any of those things. Like I'm pretty like pen and lucky pencil, right? Like lucky pencil and paper. But we do have children who have they're in a different world than we're in, right? Like they grew up in a technological world that apps are not multi-step to them. That is normalcy to them. And I think that just allowing people to have the knowledge that these things exist would be a really great thing to do for our listeners. Do you agree Jen to just have those available for people? Jenn: 100%, 100%. The other thing I see my younger daughter using a lot more now is the voice memo option and sending voice memos instead of text messages. I think she like has even become too like tired of texting. So that's what that's what the kids are kind of doing now too is sending Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jenn: voice memos back and forth. Jayson St.Croix: I had two more left to give, Jen, and that's one of them is instead of voice memos, have your daughter check out Otter AI because you can transcribe your voice note into Otter AI and it will summarize or analyze whatever you're trying to do from your meetings. You should use that one in your meetings as well, as long as you have consent to use it. But Amy actually used or Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: So Jayson St.Croix: Dr. St. Croix used that for her capstone project for a doctorate dissertation. I'm sorry. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, I actually I did a dissertation, not a capstone. But I Otter AI was what we used to put the research together for, you know, the dissertation for the doctorate. And I it's if you want to use it to the best of its ability, it's complicated. If you want to just use it simply to record, that's cool. But it has so many upper level features of like analysis of words and things like that. It's a very complex software, like Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, there's a little learning curve to it. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: yeah. Jayson St.Croix: the one that Dr. St.Croix doesn't know yet, I don't think that I've been playing with is called Canva Mind Maps. Have you seen that one, Dr. St.Croix Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I've only seen the pop up, which has annoyed me. Jayson St.Croix: Well, that's coming. I'm playing with that one. That's gonna be Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Right. Jayson St.Croix: the next one. I'm gonna push on you. All right. So before we get to my final segment and my favorite segment of the show, I got one last question for each of you, if you don't mind. Knowing what you know now through your experiences, through education, growing up, being successful women, what would you have told a younger version of yourself while they were still in school? And whoever wants to go first can go first. Jenn: for me, it would be like just give yourself grace. Like you're learning, right? You're you're going through a lot of changes as a young adult into adulthood, and just kind of pay attention to what is working and what isn't working for you. Because if I had realized, I guess, in high school Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm. Jenn: that I just needed like different settings and different ways of processing my like notes. I remember walking, like I would get home and I would rewrite all of my notes every single day. And that's because in the moment when I was trying to take notes, I couldn't pay attention to taking notes and writing the notes at the same time. So I had to rewrite them daily. If I knew that that was a thing? Back then, and that's where it was coming from, I probably would be like, Okay, just you need a little more time, you need to have a quiet location, whatever, but just give yourself grace. I'm still learning as an adult. And I'm watching my daughter go through it right now too, and trying to help her figure out what works best for her. So you'll have friends, you'll have great experiences, all of it's gonna come. It's just a matter of of time. Jayson St.Croix: We kinda Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, and and I think that, you know, the other part of it is is just it it's okay. Like I'm just off the top of my head, I'm really trying to think of, you know, someone that I might have been close with in high school that I'm close with now and I don't believe that there's anyone. And that's okay. It's it's it's definitely okay because we're all growing, right? Like and and I'm not even saying that it's the other people. It's just I didn't know that that's what was happening when I was in high school. and my parents sure didn't know. Like Jenn: Mm-hmm. Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: to this day my mom and dad are like, what th what that didn't happen when you were a kid? Like they had no idea that this type of anxiety was going on inside this anxiousness. Do you know what I mean? And this No. No. Jenn: But we also didn't talk about it back then either. Like it wasn't a thing, you know, and that that's the tough part is like you were silently struggling and nobody understood. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Every day. Yep. Every day. Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yep. Jayson St.Croix: So we kinda excuse me. We mentioned that briefly last episode is throwing out a bunch of strategies because some of them will work. And what works for Jen might not work for Dr. St. Croix. What works for Dr. St. Croix might not work for Jen. you just gotta find one that works for you. And something that I use in my day-to-day role in my district is I never fail. Nope, I just learn how not to do things and it it's a learning experience. So this isn't gonna work and this is why it's not gonna work, so I'm gonna try something different. So I think that's important for our listeners. Our listeners to understand. Jen, we don't we don't fail. We learn how not to do it. Jenn: And if if you do fail, it's okay too. It's okay. But e even if it's like that moment where you're like, man, I did this completely wrong, you're still learning, right? Like It doesn't always go the way you want it to. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well, and I think that the other part of it is is the way that you look at it. Like Jenn: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Sometimes it's not failure. Sometimes you you're that's not where you're meant to fit, right? Like sometimes you're not meant to fit in that space at that moment, or you're not meant to participate in that task. Like it's it's not just about failure or success. It's about, is this where I'm supposed to be too? Right? Jenn: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Like there's there's a bigger piece of that. But know Jay if you're gonna ask like our all-time favorite strategy, but I do have one that I haven't shared yet and I want to share it. Jayson St.Croix: Do share Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Okay. So for me, it's funny because I created in my own brain. But when I actually think about it, no. Jayson St.Croix: Can we can we trademark this? Okay. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: when I think about it from an analytical perspective, I tell people to do this every single day in a school setting. Every single day. As a matter of fact, I just met with a district and we reviewed a student's behavior intervention plan. And things were happening like if the student did this, then this was removed, right? Or they lost this privilege, or they had to, and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We have to base this on a function of behavior. This has to be positive reinforcement. So we talk about that all the time in schools, but I didn't connect that that's what I was doing until I literally like analytically thought about it. So this is what I do. If I have a task that I either A don't want to do or that, you know, is gonna take me a bit. I set the timer and I do that task. And sometimes it's not completing the entire task because maybe it's it's like you know, a really long task. So I'll give myself, let's say, 30 minutes, put myself on the timer for 30 minutes. If I, it's like a competitive game. If I can work for those 30 minutes directly on that task without getting distracted, without picking up my phone, without seeing a shiny object, then I allow myself 10 minutes of something I choose. And I'll be honest with you, it is typically looking at a vacation. It just is. So if I work on something for 30 minutes or an hour, or whatever I happen to set for myself, whatever's appropriate, I will give myself 10 or 15 minutes to research cruises. And I do that literally throughout the whole day. So I work for an hour and then I reward myself. And I work for an hour and then I reward myself. But Jenn: Okay, I'll check it out. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: it's It's usually like not like if you complete this task, you can have a piece of candy. Like I'm eating the candy while I complete the task. I mean, that's just stupid not to eat the candy. But it's like that extra stuff that would be taking away from my productivity, and I utilize it as a positive reinforcement to the productivity. So like if you're a mom or a dad and you want a kid to do their homework and they're not and it's taking a while, just set them up on like a 10-minute timer. And then allow them five minutes of something that they enjoy doing and then put them back on a 10-minute timer until the assignment is completed. Or you could do that with cleaning your room, or you know, all those different things. And it can be done in a classroom too, you know. we call it chunking in the education world. But that is the single-most strategy that keeps me on task during a day. Jayson St.Croix: I got follow up question for you. Do you use Siri as your timer or do you type the timer in the Google Chrome window and say set five minute timer? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Neither of those things because that would be technology related. So there's Jayson St.Croix: Gotcha. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: two things that I do. Sometimes I just literally go into my phone and set myself a timer, but there are timers that you can get that are visual. So you can see whatever the jewels drop. You can see the monkeys climbing down. Like those are some of the ones that we use in our preschool world, right? So I'll go in and grab one of those really fun visual timers at the same time. It just depends on. you know, when I'm doing legal analyst work, it's a little ridiculous to watch the monkeys crawling down the hourglass, right? so maybe that one's a little bit more on the phone, but yeah. I that's that's my best strategy. Jayson St.Croix: You have you just reminded me we have two really good friends that both teach with special ed, one's a kindergarten, one's in an intermediate building. And they use the visual timers with the monkeys or the balls or the hourglass, and we'll get that tool on that resource that you want me to curate and get out for our listeners. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, when people say I use a timer and it doesn't work, especially like in the preschool or the elementary world, right? They'll be like, we use a timer but it doesn't really seem to work, blah, blah, blah. It typically a numerical timer doesn't work with the little guys. They just don't have that connection to it. It's just It it's not effective. But if you went to one of the timers that has the actual visual piece to it, and their images, it it usually is something that's much more productive for those children. Jenn: it's funny, like the timer, the visual timer thing like doesn't work for me at all. But my daughter's elementary school teacher, she was like second, first or second grade. She used to tell the kids, just eat the frog. Right. Eat the frog. And I have to this day I've never looked it up. I don't know where the origin of this came from. But that's what I tell myself when I really need to like get to business and like get something done. Eat the frog, get it over with, and move on with your day. It's so weird, but in my brain, it Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: What? Eat the frog. Jenn: just here we go. Gotta get it done. For those tasks Jayson St.Croix: What was that Jenn: that you don't wanna do, you know. Jayson St.Croix: W was that the equivalent of put the fries in the bag? Do you know what put the f Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: We'll have to look that up when we're done. Jayson St.Croix: do you know do you know what put the fries in the bag means? Yep. Jenn: Yeah, but I've never heard that. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. You say that to me all the time. If I'm telling a long story, if I'm telling a story and it becomes elongated, he looks at and he goes, put the fries in the bag. Jenn: Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. It means let's let's go put the fries in the bag. I'm ready to go. Yeah. Okay, before we wrap things up, it's time once again for our tangent of the week. Every episode, I'm going to share one of those moments that perfectly captures the wonderfully unpredictable nature of ADHD. So, Dr. St. Croix, let me paint this week's picture for you. Ready? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I'm ready. Jayson St.Croix: We recently went for a walk like we do most nights. We are finishing our walk and approaching our house, and you notice two of our ten solar lights in the front landscaping aren't working. You start tinkering with them while I head inside to get your popcorn, set up our show that we had planned on watching when we got back from our walk. At least 20 minutes goes by and your popcorn's done. I see you still out front trying to get that one last solar light to work. And sarcastically, I shout out to you, Are you sure you don't hyperfixate on things? I won't share with the audience what your response was to me. But after another 10 minutes or so, you finally come back inside. Okay? We get ready to watch the season finale in McBee Dynasty. Good show. You should watch it if you haven't. You grab your laptop and you try to find those solar discs on sale. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well that? Jenn: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: Since it's the end of the season. Next thing I know, I'm getting pics and pins, even though I'm literally sitting right next to you on the couch, of how you want to decorate the TV stands, the end tables, our trees for the fall season. Then you change our recording date for the podcast to Sunday instead of Saturday because you rescheduled our regular Sunday dinner to Saturday and the dinner group chat. And we still haven't seen the final episode of McBee Dynasty. How close was that to our walk last Friday? Jenn: Animal functional. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well, kind of close. Because I fixed the light. So I didn't need to buy new ones. I fixed it. Jayson St.Croix: One of Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: But I fixed the other one. Wanna know how what I did? Jayson St.Croix: You went Hobby Lobby again. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No, no, no, no. They don't have any more in stock. I already tried that. They Jayson St.Croix: Jesus. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: the ones on the back side, the It worked and it was under a bush, which is stupid. What a waste. So I took that one, moved it to the front, to the one I couldn't get working, take the broken one and put it underneath the bush. So now all the ones in the front light up. Problem solved. Everything matches. Jenn: Simple. Jayson St.Croix: Outside the box thinker, that's what she is. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: There's Jenn: Okay. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: but I I have to be honest, Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I I really think that as I listen to these tangents, Jen, and you know you're listening to them too, I feel like some of this is Jayson's fault. Like he does not do a great job of keeping me on task. Jenn: husband has has to give me verbal prompts throughout Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Ha ha ha. Jenn: the day. He's like, this is your first warning. This is your second verbal prompt. This is because he he now understands like what I need. So I I get it. Cause I'm the same way. I'll start doing one thing and I'm off doing three or four other things. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: W what is your response to Tony when he does that? I was gonna say, 'cause I wanna be polite. Jenn: I give a luck. But shut up. Shut up. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. Yeah. And I get why you don't gotta give me attitude. Why are you giving me attitude? You're telling me to remind you. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Usually what I say to him if he does remind me is is don't tell me what to do. I do what I want to do. That's usually what I tell him. Don't tell me what to do. Jayson St.Croix: That's true. Jenn: I think I said that yeah already this morning. Yeah, once or twice. I do what I want. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: That's right. Jayson St.Croix: All right, so that's a wrap on today's episode of Hook Line and SinkHer. A huge thank you to our guest, Ms. Jennifer O'Malley, for jumping in the boat with us today. Jenn: Bye guys. thanks so much for having me on the show today. It was like nice to see both of you and just be able to talk about what you know we do every day and what we experience and share our stories. So thanks for that opportunity. Jayson St.Croix: There's never a dull moment when the two of you get together. I look forward to it and I enjoy it. So we love you. We Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No no. Jayson St.Croix: appreciate you. Jenn: Love you guys too. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I didn't know if you didn't bring her to the office because you were afraid I'd lay on the floor and record the podcast. Jayson St.Croix: That would have been a different perspective for our viewers. All right, we covered a lot of ground on productivity today, from what actually works to what flopped completely and everything in between. So hopefully you're walking away with at least one new idea to try, or just the reassurance that you're not alone on this wild productivity ride. If today's conversation resonated with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who has 17 productivity apps downloaded and still can't find their keys. Next time we're diving into a topic that a lot of us know well, hyper focus. Is it a superpower or is it a setback? We'll let you be the judge. But until next time, keep casting, keep learning, and remember, sometimes the best catches happen when you least expect them.