Latest / Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry / Episode 56: Awakening in an Accelerating World

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Episode 56: Awakening in an Accelerating World · Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry

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  Greetings everyone and welcome back to another conversation with Amoda Maa.
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  Hello Amoda Maa. Hello, Kavi. So let's jump straight into this momentous exploration
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  by reading a section from Amoda. Is this from your book?
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  Yes, it is. This is from an embodied enlightenment, just in case anybody wants to search for it.
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  But I can't remember the page number, so you'll have to read the whole thing.
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  Let me read this and then we'll explore. I'll ask you a few questions and we'll explore this.
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  There is a momentum pulling us toward an emerging future, and this future holds the potential for
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  a collective awakening that catapults us into the next stage as a species. For the first time
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  in the known story of the cosmos, consciousness is becoming conscious of itself. But consciousness
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  can only become conscious of itself through the vehicle of a living form that has the
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  capacity for self-reflection. This includes being able to reflect on the nature of its
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  own thinking and feeling, its own past and future, its own life and death and on the
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  nature of awareness itself. As far as we know, human beings are the only life form on earth
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  with this capacity for self-reflection.
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  Consider then the possibility that a new consciousness
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  and a new humanity is birthing itself through you as you.
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  If this is so, could it be that you are the single most
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  important factor in this birthing process?
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  Could it be that you are the vehicle through which
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  existence itself is attempting to recreate itself
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  on the next highest level?
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  and that your awakening absolutely matters.
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  I'll continue.
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  Despite appearances, we are now perfectly poised
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  for a giant evolutionary step forward and upward.
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  Collectively and individually,
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  we are being given the opportunity for an upgrade.
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  Contrary to our conventional way of seeing things,
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  the darkness we perceive in the world
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  and the darkness we experience in our lives is here to serve us.
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  The pain and horror is the grit in the oyster that makes the pearl.
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  It's the catalyst for evolution.
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  When life comes crashing down around us,
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  it's so hard to believe that the darkness isn't an indicator of something gone terribly wrong.
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  But this is not necessarily the deeper truth of the matter.
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  Often, in fact, it is a sign that there's something wonderfully right.
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  It shows us that the dawn of a new light is emerging.
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  As we stand at the precipice of an exciting transition, we have a choice.
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  We either collapse in the face of our challenges, or we do something radical.
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  The former is familiar to us.
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  It's what we've done for millennia.
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  When faced with potential danger, our automatic response
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  is fight or flight.
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  And when danger becomes prolonged and the hope
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  of a brighter future fades away, we
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  collapse into fear and despair.
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  If we are to evolve as individuals and as a species,
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  a new response is required.
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  Instead of fight or flight, we're
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  called to turn around and join forces
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  with evolution itself by saying yes to that which is dying and yes to that which is emerging.
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  Even though it appears as if the outer world of form is breaking down, it's the inner
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  world of consciousness that has reached a crisis point.
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  The invitation and the possibility for you and each of us is to allow your world to be
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  rocked, to let it all come crashing down, to be willing to be stripped bare of all that
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  you think you have and all that you think you are, in losing every notion, every image,
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  every concept that is upheld a sense of me and mine, and this may or may not include
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  the loss of every material thing you think you own, you discover that which can never
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  be lost that which is immovable and invulnerable to change.
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  Wow, there's a lot in there.
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  Let's unpack this somewhat, a motor.
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  I'm wondering what the best place to start is.
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  What's happening?
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  What is the pull?
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  I mean, there's the writing there that speaks to this, you know, very deeply that the invitation,
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  which is the perennial invitation, is the invitation to awakening from the dream spell
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  from the illusion of separation.
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  And this has been around for thousands of years.
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  It's the call to enlightenment and awakening.
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  what's being talked about here in this section that I read is that it's actually interconnected
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  for one of a better term with something that's happening on a global level, on a cosmic level.
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  You know, and so, you know, let's speak to that a little bit because it's the same and
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  different presumably.
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  Everything is a reflection of everything else.
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  So the personal journey of awakening is a reflection of a more universal impulse to
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  awaken.
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  That in itself demands a bit of exploration in the sense that what is it that's awakening.
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  On the personal level, awakening is never for the self even though it appears to be.
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  awakening from the dream spell and we do speak of the self awakening out of the dream spell.
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  We have to because we're speaking from the individuation, if you like.
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  But in that awakening, at least in my direct experience, and I would suggest that this
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  is so one recognises that it's not the self that actually awakens. It's awakeness itself
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  or we could say awareness that actually recognises itself through the vehicle of the individual.
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  a reflection of a holographic reflection of the totality, essentially consciousness itself,
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  awareness itself, waking up to itself through the manifest. And the manifest includes the
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  individual, it includes the collective, it includes the universal, and it includes the
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  cosmic, the cosmos, the impulse of that, the impulse that we feel as individuals, which
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  seems to be intensifying in the sense that more individuals are seeking awakening, are
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  perhaps closer to it than in previous ages, is a kind of indication that something is
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  speeding up the evolutionary impulse to awaken out of the dream spell is speeding up.
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  Now, the reason that I wrote those words in the book was
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  if you like, from this that I'm speaking of now, and an intuitive sense of that speeding up,
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  not from some theoretical model of evolution, but really from an intuitive sense that the
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  paradigm of separation, which is not just in the individual who believes themselves to be a separate
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  self-disconnected or fragmented and therefore isolated, alienated, which is the spiritual seeker's
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  core reason for seeking. It's not just on the individual level, but it's collective, as we can see,
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  because everything's a reflection of everything else.
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  So we can see that separation paradigm being reflected back to us through society, through
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  interpersonal dynamics, through all parts of our world, let's say.
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  And that was changing the separation paradigm which has reached in some ways its peak, the
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  increasing division or violence, fragmentation in the world that we see is a reflection of
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  that.
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  And so the individual, the personal impulse to awaken out of the dream state is not disconnected
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  from that.
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  The whole.
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  So intuitively something is shifting.
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  Something has the potential to shift.
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  call it a potential because there's no definite outcome. But there's the potential through
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  what we may feel within as separation, as division. And through what we may perceive
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  as separation and division, there's the potential for something new to be birthed. And that seems to be
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  reflected by the increasing momentum, desire, conversation, immersion in awakening,
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  awakening out of the ego state, awakening out of the me identity, which is becoming more and more
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  part of the, we can call it spiritual culture, but I think it transcends spiritual.
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  There are many threads or outposts or posts of what you're saying. Number one, the essence of
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  this work that you do, that we do, has a, what I feel, is a purity to it and a simplicity,
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  and almost as Zen-like return to just the essence,
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  to try and stay pure to the essence.
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  So this is quite an unusual conversation for us to have
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  about the bigger picture
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  and how it relates to the individual picture.
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  And I know that if you search around on YouTube
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  for any of this kind of bigger picture stuff,
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  the mind gets sucked in, you know, a way to the ascension process for the fifth and many
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  dimensions. And for the speculation that the mind comes up with to imagine the glorious
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  golden age of the future where all this darkness has dissolved and somehow will just living
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  as kind of light beings, which I'm just missing that. And, you know, I don't know. So, but
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  I do want to see how that relates to the work that you do that we do.
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  Yeah, not that, not the dreamy stuff, but actually what you're talking about, the intuit.
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  You're talking about intuiting.
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  So there's no actual knowing on the mental level, but there's a sense somewhere within
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  you.
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  Yeah, let's just talk that.
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  has sent somewhere within you that something has reached a bifurcation point, which is
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  a term that you've used, and that bifurcation point is suggesting that something either
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  as true with all bifurcation points, it could implode for the better term, or it could expand,
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  it could exponentially grow, or it could exponentially collapse in a sense.
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  And am I right in sort of just talking about that a little bit?
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  Yes, I think it's important to say at least from our perspective,
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  my perspective that we're not talking about an ascension process
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  or any magical thinking of a collective awakening, a mass awakening that catapults us into a
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  golden age where everything is peace, harmony, love and perfection. I don't think that's
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  necessarily realistic. I think that's magical thinking. Certainly for myself I left that
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  behind a very long time ago. Having said that, there is an intuitive sense and also an understanding,
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  if you like, of the dynamics that take place in the individual journey of awakening, where
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  It reaches a peak within, usually most often through suffering, through internal darkness,
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  through having to face either shadow energies or the inner division that takes place, which
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  seems to be part of the human condition, at least currently.
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  It's only when we reach a bifurcation point within that that the possibility of the illusion
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  of that coming undone, that it's only then that the possibility is available to us.
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  And therefore, if everything is a reflection of everything else, then this is also taking
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  place on a more collective level. That doesn't mean there's going to be a mass awakening.
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  It means that certain individuals are more likely to awaken within that and that may
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  transform the world. I don't really want to go in that direction, but I do want to talk about
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  or touch on the intensification that is being experienced by many individuals today.
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  spiritual or not, they don't have to be spiritual seekers. But we can acknowledge that there is
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  increasing fear, anxiety, divisiveness, division in taking positions for and against and so on.
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  And this is creating a certain friction within the self,
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  restlessness, agitation within the self,
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  and in the world, in the collective in various aspects,
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  we can also say perhaps that there's a kind of intensification of...
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  It's kind of everything's amped up. Everything's intensified, not just in terms of events,
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  but the energy field, the energy system, there's a certain speeding up, there's a certain
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  which can either become anxiety or restlessness or it can become
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  potential, potential for the birthing of something creative, something new, new possibilities.
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  So I think this is around, yeah, this is in the field somehow, and some are more sensitive to it than others.
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  And I think this is an indication of the coming to that edge within oneself, because it can only be met within oneself,
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  of either re- sort of going down the same pathways within oneself of reactivity, of fear, of anxiety,
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  of retraction, of resistance, of rejection, which are all the ego identity's mechanisms,
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  ways of being, ways of responding, reacting.
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  And that creates more anxiety, more tension, more,
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  on all levels, physical and mental, emotional.
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  And that's really coming to the fore.
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  And I think it's right there that individuals
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  have the opportunity
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  for something radically new,
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  which is actually what awakening is.
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  - Yes, not through force, not through methodology,
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  but through deep insight.
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  And just to add another part to it,
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  I don't think that possibility was available to us
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  in previous ages, perhaps for rare individuals.
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  But if we look back at the educational level,
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  if we look back 1,000 or 2,000 years,
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  as far as I can understand, in those days, whatever system, whatever class, whatever
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  class you were born into, it was very difficult to break out of that in any culture.
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  And so it was a much more fixed in that way.
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  It was much more limited.
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  So the place where we're at in today's world, whilst there is much chaos and so on, we do
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  have most of us anyway, the opportunity to grow on a human level, to evolve on a human
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  level, to break out of old dynamics, whether they're educational dynamics, family dynamics.
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  So we also have the possibility, because we have more insight, perhaps a more sophisticated
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  psyche, for self-reflection.
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  And that is part of the, it's like the intensification of the ego self, together with the capacity
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  for self-reflection, for deep insight, gives us a new opportunity.
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  Yeah.
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  I think I would certainly hear what you're saying and do
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  without a doubt, see the pressure cooker is cooking.
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  And how I look at your spiritual awakening and know that what happened to me,
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  don't talk about awakening in the same way, but you know, for both of us there was a certain
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  amount of pressure that led to your breakthrough suddenly, my erosion gradually, but both of them
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  had a pressure to them. And so what I hear you saying is for those who are prepared in a way to
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  look within, to go within, to go deeper than the surface narratives, to go beyond the stories
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  and to not get involved so much in the divisiveness and the separation, then the pressure that's
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  building up wherever it comes from, however it's arising, whether it's part of some mysterious
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  evolutionary movement or not, here it is, there is a pressure, there is definitely a
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  depression, you feel it and you see it and it's affecting people's sleep and their thoughts
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  and their dreams and their anxiety level and their anger level or their stuff level, then
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  it's sort of inescapable. And whilst it feels uncomfortable, my I always see particularly
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  now that the possibility of breaking through doesn't come without meeting that discomfort,
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  without meeting that pressure.
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  And if it's there, then it's the invitation,
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  it's to kind of meet it.
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  And the thing that I was gonna really say is that the,
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  I don't like to talk about the dividing of the world in a way,
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  but there are those who in the intensification,
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  are so caught up, are still so hooked in,
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  are still so glued in,
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  that there actually seem to be almost
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  getting more sucked in to the separate world,
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  more sucked into the divisiveness, more sucked into the dream, while there are a certain number,
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  an ever-changing number of course, of people that seem like there are millions, millions
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  of people who are actually at least being prepared to kind of turn away somehow from
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  that funneling into the separation. And there's the opportunity, and I don't know whether
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  that means some sort of strange splitting of the world or not, but it's, you know, this
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  is the kind of thing, these are some of the conversations that are being had on very deep
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  levels by some very, very deep and interesting people. So, yes.
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  All of that. And as you speak, that brings back the flavour of two very unexpected,
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  and I would say visionary states that I experienced a very long time ago, I probably was around
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  28, 29, 30, I think, years old, and it was prior to awakening, a long time prior to awakening,
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  or even a long time prior to really, you know, a deep in or inquiry, although I was pretty esoteric
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  at that point, but unexpectedly in either a meditative state or just, I don't know how it happened,
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  two things took place within that I can only say were visionary states, nothing to do with the
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  self-thinking anything or believing anything, and they were very visceral and relate to this. One was
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  I think very early on, I...
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  standing somewhere and I may have been on a...
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  I don't know if I was on a ship, but I don't know why I would be on a ship.
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  But anyway, there I was on a ferry or something,
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  or in a car or something. I think I was travelling and I experienced a splitting of the world.
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  I don't know what that is. I didn't know what that meant.
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  I didn't know, I just felt almost two, two realities being created at the same time.
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  And it was very visceral. And it was like one reality was dark and the other one was light.
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  One was, yeah, dark was all I could, yeah, like a devolution. Yeah. And the other one was some kind
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  light transformation and that's as far as I got. And it was like, I knew it was
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  something to do with a future possibility, a splitting up the world. What that meant,
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  I don't know, and I left it at that. And then a couple of years later, and I
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  experienced what seemed to be a visionary state of myself, again,
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  sometimes seemingly in the future, sitting on a hilltop and looking out over the world
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  and the world was burning, it was going up in flames and structures were being destroyed
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  And as I sat there, I could feel within myself a kind of wavering.
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  And if it wavered towards fear, it's as if I got sucked into that destruction and perpetuated the destruction.
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  And if I kept absolutely still and yet with my eyes open as a witness, that fire turned to light.
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  And it was as if the world was reborn in that.
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  And that also was a visionary state.
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  Now again, I let it go.
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  It didn't inform me in any particular way, but the fragrance of it kind of stayed with me.
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  And in awakening, I recognize that both of those, and especially the second vision, which
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  was more detailed, was actually the process of awakening.
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  A sort of visual representation of it, a metaphor, not it's not literal, but that remaining
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  as awareness itself is what transforms the darkness to light.
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  I also think it's not just personal, it's collective. So that reminds me of that.
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  It's very beautiful. There's a question I want to come to, but first I want to just get into that
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  a little bit. Is that the same? Because you've talked about going through the valley before,
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  walking through the valley of, and so is that same as that? And is that the same as some deeply
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  archetypal, biblical but non-religious kind of vision that we hold inside ourselves, that is the
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  perennial vision of Jesus and the Buddha enlightenment and all of this kind of stuff, the holding
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  true in the face of fear and destruction and in that holding true to a deeper presence of openness
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  and love that the entire vision, the entire world dissolves and is reborn as something. Is this
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  this? Yes, absolutely. There we are. So there is a third part of it and the third part of it was
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  a long time later, I don't know, about 15 years later, it's like each, each, each visionary state
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  was more detailed, yeah, a more precise, and yes, there was the walking through the valley of,
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  of death, and I don't know whether we need to explore that right now, but it was a more detailed
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  version of that, um, was later, and it was actually very close to awakening. Um, so they were kind of
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  related and yes, to just put it into its kind of right context, I would say that's archetypal.
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  It's an archetype, exactly what you said.
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  It's something archetypal in the human psyche, in the human genetic coding that is being replayed
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  if you like or manifest through individuals like especially Christ is that Jesus is the
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  main one. But through each of us, and somehow we can be in touch with that. It can inform
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  I don't know why it happens to some and not others.
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  But it was a
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  valuable visceral, not informational, but visceral, kind of opening in me.
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  Yes, but I think that's very much the symbolism of it, the archetypal symbolism and possibility.
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  So that's why I say it's intuitive.
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  We started off the conversation by saying it's an intuitive sense, not a theoretical
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  understanding of what's happening on an evolutionary level.
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  It's intuitive because it's been felt archetypal.
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  I understand that and it's funny because I think that when you're in one of the things
• 4:46
  in the long relationship there are many multi-layered, nuanced and deeply profound aspects of the
• 4:47
  relationship that I've had with you is that without actually kind of teaching me if you
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  like directly that particular kind of, I don't know, depth or quality, the quality of being
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  this. It has become me, right? But it's become me. And now I share in my sessions in the
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  whatever I do, is that equanimity, what I call equanimity, the ability to stand at the fulcrum
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  at the centre where the cross is, if you like, without being religious again, but at the junction
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  of where the horizontal world, where the world of time and form and past and present, meets the
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  depth of our and the height of our consciousness. And you've conveyed that to me completely,
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  because that's actually the essence of the teaching, really. It's one of the essence of the teaching,
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  and that makes it timeless, yeah? Absolutely. I mean, you know, there was no knowing that,
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  it would become the teaching, that's what would emerge, but that's really what's emerged many years
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  later is actually the simplicity of that, not the symbolism of it, not the imagery of it, not the
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  archetypalness of it, even that, although we're talking about that a little bit now, but the simplicity
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  of it. The simplicity of the capacity we each have to remain as presence, if you like, to remain
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  as equanimity, to recognize the light of being that is ever-present and unchanging within all
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  experiences. Whatever happens, whether the world is falling apart or whether the world is rebirthing
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  itself, to remain as that, that's it. That is the evolution that's taking place. That
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  is the personal evolution and it is the potentially collective evolution, whether that means
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  we don't know what that means, we don't know what that looks like and I would expect that
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  it's not going to be a mass awakening where we go into some new world of perfection. It's
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  going to be like a wave that takes place here and there, but certainly there's the potential
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  for the individual and with each individual, that light informs the way that we are in
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  our relationships, in our lives, in our work, and that changes something on a fundamental
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  level.
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  And so here it is.
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  It always points back to remain as this.
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  So there's so many things I could ask.
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  So the work is still an individual work.
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  The mirror is still pointing to the individual.
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  I know there are beliefs and it seems to be true of the hundredth monkey effect if you
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  like as the momentum of a meme or a thought or an energy or a belief or a change goes
• 5:17
  on in more and more and more people. So it actually becomes exponentially more possible.
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  But I think to rest on the laurels of I'll wait for everybody else to do the work and
• 5:19
  clear their shadow or whatever it is until, so I don't really have to face my own darkness,
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  whether that's my fear of the world or the horror of my past or whatever it is. It's
• 5:21
  not the time to kind of sit back. It is actually the time to really do what one might call
• 5:22
  the work. Yeah? Absolutely. It's time for the individual to take responsibility for the
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  inner state of consciousness. And I think that's what's different today than it was
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  say three, four thousand years ago, it's almost like we didn't have the capacity to take responsibility
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  for that, maybe a few rare individuals, and we call them the enlightened ones. But now I think
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  the ordinary person has more capacity for that, it's more available to us. To take responsibility
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  for your state of consciousness, that's not to say that you can make awakening happen,
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  but you can start to see more and more how you give, one gives allegiance to the reactive
• 5:29
  mechanism to the which includes fear, which includes resistance, which includes, you know,
• 5:30
  argument with what is, which brings us back to the primary teaching, if you like, which is
• 5:31
  the timeless one, which is the end of resistance, the end of resistance to what is, the end of
• 5:32
  the argument with what is, with what is, life as it is. Not life as you hope it to be or think
• 5:33
  it to be or fear it to be, but just here as it is. That's timeless. It's a timeless wisdom.
• 5:34
  May I ask you a question about yourself? You don't know what I'm going to ask.
• 5:35
  I want to ask this. This is actually related, but it's sort of, I just want to get a picture
• 5:36
  of this because you're actually what might call a non-dual teacher.
• 5:37
  Non-duality seems to have a lot of, you know, as a broad brushstroke these days,
• 5:38
  whereas it used to be a very almost narrow brush stroke and I think it's become somewhat
• 5:39
  kind of diluted in some ways. But I don't see yours as yours as being kind of diluted.
• 5:40
  You know, about a motor, what I hear in what you've been just talking about and what we've
• 5:41
  been talking about is actually, and you alluded to it in the 90s, you had an inner vision.
• 5:42
  And then you had another one and then you had an awakening and then after a time he became
• 5:43
  an angel teacher and speaking about just this, the essence of us as the union and oneness
• 5:44
  that we are.
• 5:45
  But I also know you as an Aquarian, kind of almost mystic soul somehow, an eye to an Aquarian.
• 5:46
  We have a very kind of Aquarian way of being or talking.
• 5:47
  I'm going to say categorically that I know you as a visionary on a certain level.
• 5:48
  That has many connotations.
• 5:49
  But I think you do have a dream or a vision or something.
• 5:50
  But also you're a non-dualist.
• 5:51
  I hate that term, but I'm going to use it.
• 5:52
  So now let me ask you the question.
• 5:53
  How do these two things marry up and live with each other?
• 5:54
  That's a good question.
• 5:55
  There's two aspects to the attempt to answer that as accurately and as honestly as possible.
• 5:56
  First of all, to me they're not contradictory. As you said, the non-dual or non-duality has
• 5:57
  a very broad brush stroke these days and much of it has been, or some of it has been hijacked
• 5:58
  by the extremist or fundamentalist non-dual perspective, which is there's nobody here,
• 5:59
  there's nothing happening and there's no evolution, and then sticking to that.
• 6:00
  True non-duality does not exclude the movement of life, which includes everything.
• 6:01
  All levels, all dimensions, the archetypal, the symbolic, the metaphorical, all energy
• 6:02
  bodies if you like.
• 6:03
  Jesus is ultimately non-dual, but he's not a modern day fundamentalist, not journalist.
• 6:04
  It includes everything.
• 6:05
  Was he a mystic, of course?
• 6:06
  Was he a visionary, of course, and so on?
• 6:07
  So to me, they're not exclusive.
• 6:08
  I could point out some modern day teachers as well,
• 6:09
  but I won't, that they also have this, yeah.
• 6:10
  What, that's one side of the, yeah.
• 6:11
  the conversation, if you like, or the approach. The other side of the approach is that
• 6:12
  personally, I have never been attached to the visionary state. I have never taken it personally.
• 6:13
  I have never proclaimed myself to be a visionary or a mystic, and therefore to uphold that. In fact,
• 6:14
  I never speak about those visions. We're speaking to them here because they're part of the theme of
• 6:15
  today's conversation and also because we have very intimate, honest conversations. So, yeah,
• 6:16
  you can get really inside this human being as well. But I have never upheld that. I never speak
• 6:17
  about it. I don't even think about it. Like I said, it's just something that's developed and
• 6:18
  informed but not held onto. So there's no identity of self in that.
• 6:19
  Therefore it's not a problem. Ultimately, ultimately,
• 6:20
  true awakening, true enlightenment, true liberation transcends all visions, all mystical states,
• 6:21
  all dimensions, it really is about the nakedness of what is. I mean, that's simplifying it, yeah,
• 6:22
  but just to bring it back to the raw bones of it, which is non-jul. It's the realisation,
• 6:23
  the recognition, the only the one, the one beingness, the one light of being, permeates everything
• 6:24
  and gives birth to everything, everything arises in that.
• 6:25
  So as it's lived, as it's known, and as it's expressed through what we call the teaching,
• 6:26
  that's all it is. But that doesn't preclude the possibility of insight, intuition,
• 6:27
  even visionary states. I mean, I don't have visionary states anymore.
• 6:28
  But there are certain individuals, and I am for whatever reason, one of those, who has quite a,
• 6:29
  I don't know why, I don't know what it is, but it's kind of got quite a,
• 6:30
  not fragile, but delicate
• 6:31
  boundary in mind, in body, in every aspect of the human being. And therefore, energies, which are
• 6:32
  everywhere, the collective, the field, the cosmic, the galactic, the archetypal, the symbolic,
• 6:33
  are very available to me. And I've always been like that. It's just that it's not so much anymore,
• 6:34
  it's on a much more subtle level and I don't speak about it and I don't identify with it.
• 6:35
  I appreciate you speaking to it because I know that I caught you in the
• 6:36
  headlights in a sense, but that's part of what this is, the purpose of this in a way, is to see
• 6:37
  How is it possible for these two things, let's say, which aren't two things, to kind of
• 6:38
  coexist? And I think the key is that I don't think you've created any sort of identity or
• 6:39
  anything like that out of any of it, quite honestly, of the visionary or the mystic or
• 6:40
  the anything like that. So therefore, the relationship, if it is a relationship between
• 6:41
  what the non-dual and the mystic or the visionary can float in and out,
• 6:42
  you know, in a very harmonious way, you know, in a very...
• 6:43
  - I mean, it's...
• 6:44
  Ultimately, non-dual realization is the undoing of all identities.
• 6:45
  - Yeah.
• 6:46
  - Does that preclude the...
• 6:47
  every single experience that's possible?
• 6:48
  No.
• 6:49
  But there's no need for an experience to bring some sort of elevated mystical state
• 6:50
  or special state or spiritual state. I mean, I don't have those anymore. There's nothing
• 6:51
  here but what is. But that doesn't preclude a sensitivity to the waves of invisible movement,
• 6:52
  whether they're cyclical or spiraling through time and space. There's still a sensitivity
• 6:53
  to that. It's just very delicate now. I do think that as one cleans up for one of a better
• 6:54
  term, the temple of one's being. I think you've always, in many ways, been a clean person.
• 6:55
  I don't mean that in any moral or pure way, in that sense. But actually, you're vessel.
• 6:56
  the individuation that you are is actually always being relatively clean.
• 6:57
  And I know for myself that the more clean on the internal level,
• 6:58
  and I mean really with the detritus of self-identification and toxic emotions
• 6:59
  and toxic foods and all that kind of stuff,
• 7:00
  the more clean the temple is,
• 7:01
  the more available one is for the cosmic information,
• 7:02
  for the natural intelligence.
• 7:03
  And I think you've always had a kind of capacity
• 7:04
  to touch what you're saying.
• 7:05
  You're very porous.
• 7:06
  And that could be a personal problem for some people.
• 7:07
  And it does render one of open to all sorts of energies
• 7:08
  that you know, so you have to be mature in that sense
• 7:09
  to be able to navigate that kind of inner porousness.
• 7:10
  But I've noticed that the cleaner that I've become,
• 7:11
  the more open I've become to the,
• 7:12
  because we haven't got a boundary.
• 7:13
  We think we've got a boundary,
• 7:14
  but we haven't got a boundary.
• 7:15
  Our information and our intelligence and our awareness
• 7:16
  goes beyond this physical boundary, correct?
• 7:17
  - Absolutely, I think that's what it is.
• 7:18
  We're open to because of that porousness
• 7:19
  or unboundedness, unbounderiness,
• 7:20
  again, mental, physical, in all ways, just energetic.
• 7:21
  to be informed by the field.
• 7:22
  There's always an invisible field.
• 7:23
  And that's what we're sensing,
• 7:24
  but not to make a theory out of it,
• 7:25
  or a certainty out of it,
• 7:26
  or an identity out of it,
• 7:27
  or a hope out of it, or a fear out of it.
• 7:28
  - God.
• 7:29
  - Hoping for a better world.
• 7:30
  On some level, I couldn't care less.
• 7:31
  Yeah, I'm not hoping for a better world.
• 7:32
  It's not my responsibility to control the future or the world.
• 7:33
  Yeah.
• 7:34
  But I can be in tune with it, aligned with it, and therefore one with it.
• 7:35
  Yeah.
• 7:36
  And therefore just sense, intuit, that there's something, yeah, something special here.
• 7:37
  That's an amazing, actually, that's an amazing place to end.
• 7:38
  I think we'll end by, I think that's an amazing dance to have to realize actually we think
• 7:39
  we're these human beings in this, in the case, in this body, but actually we're galactic
• 7:40
  consciousness already.
• 7:41
  We really are.
• 7:42
  And the more we strip away the veils of illusion, the more we realize and remember our true
• 7:43
  galactic, you know, cosmic consciousness. But the point is that as soon as that funnels
• 7:44
  up into the mind and becomes a future hope or a dream or an idea, we've lost it again.
• 7:45
  So that relates back to what you were saying about staying as this.
• 7:46
  Yes, and so it also relates to where we started this conversation. As soon as we have hope of a
• 7:47
  better future or saving the world or transcending or the fifth dimension or whatever it is,
• 7:48
  it becomes about the self. The self hoping, dreaming of a better future and already we
• 7:49
  have moved away from the possibility of true awakening out of the dream spell and the
• 7:50
  true evolution of consciousness, which is the non dual. Yeah. So it's not about that.
• 7:51
  We have to be very careful on talking collectively here.
• 7:52
  That's why it's not about the self.
• 7:53
  It's not about my future or my world
• 7:54
  or what I can do to make it better and so on.
• 7:55
  It's not about the me,
• 7:56
  but the self, the individuation,
• 7:57
  the seeming finite self that is here
• 7:58
  is absolutely vital because it's through the portal,
• 7:59
  through that focal point that the bigger, the totality,
• 8:00
  the beingness, the galactic, the consciousness
• 8:01
  can actually awaken to itself, but it's not for the self.
• 8:02
  That's the evolution.
• 8:03
  - The call is then to actually radical presence and radical.
• 8:04
  Hearness. Radical presence, radical hearness, but not for the self.
• 8:05
  And not for the self.
• 8:06
  To recognize the light of awareness, the light of being that is the ever-present, unchanging
• 8:07
  reality, whatever appearance takes place.
• 8:08
  Isn't this Buddha under the Bodhi tree?
• 8:09
  It's Christ Jesus on the cross. It's enlightenment.
• 8:10
  I think we're going to finish there. I hope this has opened up something for anybody listening.
• 8:11
  It's only our attempt in a way to open the door, to keep the door open,
• 8:12
  to keep the door of possibility of the unknown, of the invitation, the perennial invitation to
• 8:13
  be rooted in the presence of being, not for the self, but for the unself, for the non-self,
• 8:14
  for the openness that we are. That's the intention here, and if it's spoken to you,
• 8:15
  very pleased. Amoda, our conversations are extraordinarily delightful. And I hope that
• 8:16
  I hope we've spoken to it in a way that works, yeah?
• 8:17
  I think we've touched on something.
• 8:18
  Good.
• 8:19
  Well, I did want to get to some other aspects of it,
• 8:20
  like they're talking about the ugas we were going to talk about.
• 8:21
  And so, I don't know.
• 8:22
  You never know.
• 8:23
  We might do something else,
• 8:24
  or I might invite you back to talk a little bit more about this,
• 8:25
  about this because it's quite useful I think. It's really assures people that it's not
• 8:26
  just going wrong. It's not all the disaster. Actually, the darkness is there for good
• 8:27
  purpose in many ways. If enlightenment or awakening or deepening is what we really seek.
• 8:28
  Having said that, thank you so much, Amoda.
• 8:29
  Thank you, Kavi
• 8:30
  We'll see you again on the conversations with Amoda Maa
• 8:31
  Have a good day. May you be blessed. May you be well.
• 8:32
  Take care. Bye-bye.