Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Gift of Story | a conversation with Holly Packiam of Storyformed

Transcript

The Gift of Story | a conversation with Holly Packiam of Storyformed · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: And for those of you who are new here, we are so glad that you've joined us.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: Ashley Pittman and I are your hosts for the Simply Wholehearted Podcast, and our mission is to encourage and inspire you to live more unplugged, purposeful, and intentional moments in every season of life.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: We have another special holiday season episode with the beautiful music in the background written and recorded by John Thurlow.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: His Christmas album is available on iTunes as well as his other eight albums, including his newest one, Different Story.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: While you are checking out our show notes for all the details about today's podcast, would you take a quick moment to scroll down and give this podcast a five-star rating?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: This helps others know what episodes they might enjoy and that they are welcomed here.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Today's guest is Holly Pacquiao.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: I've known her for well over 15 years when she first moved to Colorado Springs after college to marry her college sweetheart Glenn Pacquiaum.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: They are pastors now of New Life Downtown in Colorado Springs.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: They have four kids, and she's continuing the mission of sharing great story with the story-formed home.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is a vision Sally Clarkson and her husband Clay had many years ago.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Recently, they invited Holly to continue this mission after knowing her for many years, that she had a similar heart and passion to equip families with the joy of reading rich literature and sharing great story.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: We cover some of the how-to's of reading with kids and getting them to love the written word.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: But we also cover some of the wonderful Christmas books you might want to add to your Amazon cart or library hold list.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: As much as I love reading, it doesn't always come easily to do with my family.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I think you'll be encouraged to try some new techniques and to make good put books part of the fabric which knits your hearts together.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and be sure to check out our Christmas season sponsor, seed effect.org.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: They're committed to bringing economic empowerment and Jesus to the world's most unstable communities.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: They help the financially poor to provide for themselves and their families with dignity.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: In a few weeks, they'll be on our podcast as well, and you'll get to hear more from them and their wonderful organization.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: And now here's our conversation with Holly Pacquiao of Story Formed.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Ashley was just saying she had listened to uh your podcast with you and Glenn about weapons.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I listened to your Advent podcast this morning and it was so good.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh it was really, really good.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh good.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can't wait to listen to.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: I actually you gotta tell Glenn I want him next year for Advent.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't get him for Advent this year.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I love I really love um the fact that with you know with Anglican influence, the liturgy, just the beauty of the scriptures and it being like a real intentional, you know, journey um in preparing for Christmas.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's incredible.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's really rich and deep.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: And um that's why I would love to just share it with my friends because I think everyone needs a little bit of that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I really liked was that um that y'all were talking about how Advent is really the season, it's not all joy.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this is the season when you can grieve and lament because you're grieving and lamenting what is while also hoping for what's to come.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's this sense where it's all got to be joy, and you set aside uh, you know, the grief part, but the this is really the season for it.
• 3:51
  unknown: Yeah, right.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well said.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really good.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all said it.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't say it.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just repeating it.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I love it.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Spencer and I have talked about wanting to do several podcasts together, but he's like, I feel I think I'll feel all weird sitting across talking to you, you know, through a mic.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so how did it go, husband and wife podcast together?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it I mean, it is a little, you know, you feel a little bit more, I don't know, proper is the right, you know, but you're you're looking at each other and talking in this in a different way than you normally are, you know.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it kind of goes, I felt like it goes in and out of feeling like we're having this talk, you know, like a we're talking to other people and then you have moments of just sort of your natural way of interacting coming through, you know.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of goes back and forth.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think we as we've gone and done more, we get more comfortable, you know, as we keep trying it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: So nice, nice.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so we'll have to keep trying it.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: Because it there is, I mean, that's the that's like the art of podcasting is figuring out unless you're gonna do something typed out and formal, you want it to be as conversational and natural as possible, but it's I mean, it's not as easy as uh probably a lot of people think.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: At least it's not for me.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, definitely.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel like I've definitely grown and still growing in it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I as much as I love talking, it's a little different talking into a mic and all the sound pieces and then you know, like you know, questions and then text.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of distractions to keep it from feeling like a natural conversation, yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's really different.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm so excited to dive in and share about story formed.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: I have a ton of questions because I mean, we go way back when you first moved to Colorado Springs over, I mean what probably 16 years ago or so.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's amazing.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: And were you guys married already by the time you moved, or were you kind of moving and then got married?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't remember.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you got married at Shove Chapel, didn't you?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: We did, yeah.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: We yeah, I came out in May of 2001 to Colorado Springs and then got married in August.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just moved and yep, got married a few months later.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: So that's right.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: I remember it now if I like dig back in the file cabinet of my memories.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: There were a lot of weddings that show chapel, which is is that part of the new life campus, or is that just a place, a beautiful mountain y Colorado y thing?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of just a beautiful, tr more traditional looking church, yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and those aren't really easy to find.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he basically planned the whole wedding because I was living in Tulsa and he picked the place and everything.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So he he he made a good choice.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he did.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: He did.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: He made a fantastic choice.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: I know you guys are still there, and you are both pastors of New Life Downtown in Colorado Springs.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: And how long has that campus been planted now?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: It has been about a little less than five years, I believe.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I kind of mark it by our youngest child as five.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was it's somewhere around there, yes.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: You were birthing a couple of babies at that time, nutrients, babies.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: If I think about trying to plan it out, that's probably not how I would have planned it, but you know, it all worked out.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: The Lord worked the Lord worked through it, and so yeah, these simultaneous births of you know, all sorts of things do kind of um are challenging to say the least.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, I feel like that's when things are really great because then you can't do it out of your own strength, and then you know, you partner with the Holy Spirit in a deeper way and something better comes from it, which is always a good thing.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know I when I think on that time, I really wanted to feel strong as a leader, you know, going into planting and I felt very weak, and then having four children, I felt completely overwhelmed.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so we really, you know, asked people to help us and you know, just wasn't what I'd hoped for, but at the same time, it's what you said, you know, that the I look back and I think about how our community really came together and how people really loved on us and supported us in a time when I would have wanted to do that for them, yeah, but it just didn't work that way.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I think what's going on is beautiful and it's growing, and every time I visit, you know, we get to come in and enjoy service and I love it.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's just I I know if we live there, that would be our our church of choice.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: The downtown one, the downtown one specifically.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have some friends that go to that one.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure that's their campus.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's fun.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's in a school, it's in the high school um building there at Palmer High School.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, the creaky chairs.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: I always laugh when I listen to Glenn's sermons.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: The podcast from it because you're like, like those old metal chairs or something.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's like wooden chairs, yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like folding chairs.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can tell when everyone's sitting and standing for the reading of the scriptures.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: So it's great.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we really didn't, you know, we didn't have this call to talk about the church, but that's part of who you are.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's a huge part of your family's life.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so ministry just naturally flows from who you are and what you guys do as a family.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I want to know more.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, kind of give a rundown of your family makeup, and then um we've talked about the church, but then just dive into story formed.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: I want to hear all about it.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we so my husband's Glenn, and yeah, as you said, we've been married 16 years and we have four kids.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a daughter who's 12, a daughter who's 10, and a son who's seven, he's about to be eight in about a week.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then my youngest daughter is five.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's about a little over seven years um in there with all the kids.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's been a wonderful and challenging journey, as anyone knows who's a parent.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um but um yeah, uh so all along I've had a desire to really read to them and pour into them in that way.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just as far as a parent goes and influence and connection, that's been a way that I net just naturally connected with me.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I, I mean, I was read to some as a child, but I think I I once I realized all the possibilities of you know, children's Bibles and great stories and all those things out there, I there was a little bit of me that thought, oh, I missed so many wonderful things that are so formational and that shape children in such a powerful way.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think my desire continued to grow and I yearned to bring all these wonderful stories to my kids.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was just kind of part of uh, you know, our family and home journey.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in in the process of doing that, I well probably actually Sally Clarkson was, you know, a huge part of promoting those ideas and planting those seeds in my life and my heart.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: And and um And you were mentored by her and have been for quite a while with a couple of other women there in Colorado Springs.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yep.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I met Sally about a little over 10 years ago now, which is crazy to think it's been that long.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, we met in a in a church and ministry setting, and she shared a book with me that she'd written about motherhood, and I had never heard of her before, and so she just really invited me and some other pastors' wives at our church into what she was doing.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And her messages really spoke to my heart.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was really searching for a broader vision and a greater mission for motherhood and family, and just didn't really have any idea how to get there.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so her books and her messages are wonderful.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously getting to know her personally has been a huge gift, and she's been incredible about just pursuing me relationally and continuing to pour into my life and you know, all these different seasons over the years.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and back in October, um my my husband and I got together with Sally and Clay, her husband, and we just were talking about one of their ministry initiatives, which is Story Formed, and their daughter Sarah had started that, and uh just saying, you know, this has kind of been lying dormant, and they they we talked about how much that I loved story and talking about it and promoting it.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so they just kind of said, Holly, do you wanna do you wanna take this over?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's awesome.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um, so yeah, Sarah, their daughter had started, she was had been in Oxford for a few years and had really barely got it going and then ended up going to Oxford, and so didn't have the capacity or time, of course, being in Oxford to going.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so um while getting married and starting kind of a life of her own, too.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I what was kind of neat about it too is that I've been praying for a couple years for um just kind of an I didn't really know what I was what I was asking for from the Lord, but just this part of me wanting to be able to uh promote the ideas and talk about it and share with other people, but just didn't really know the right avenue for it.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and was really kind of wrestling and feeling, you know, not very content and just trying to keep laying those ideas and those that vision down.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so it really felt like one of those moments when the Lord was bringing some of those things, those longings in my heart, you know, to the point where I could have a have a place to share.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that's awesome.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: So what has that look like?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, besides having probably to kind of take account of all the books that you have read to your kids and are reading to your kids and all of that, um, what's some of more of the mission behind it um for those who are completely unfamiliar with Storyform today?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yeah, that's a great question.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yes, the vision of Storyform is to get life-shaping books into the hands of children everywhere.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's kind of our main mission.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And along with that, um, we love talking about celebrating um the power of imagination.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then I think what comes with that when kids get, you know, this idea of using their imagination and reading great books that then they believe that they have uh a chance of you know having a story themselves that's worth telling.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So true.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of the third part of it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's kind of the general idea.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so some of the things that we talk about on the podcast are, I guess the main thing that I would say that uh is really specific to story formed is thinking of story as a form of discipleship.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so we really try to weave though that idea into all of the podcasts, and that we're not just saying we're not just wanting to tell people just do this because it's a good thing, or do this because your kids will have better vocabulary, or they'll be those are wonderful things, and we do talk about that.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that those are important, and of course, God uses that, you know, in in in our formation and in our callings, um, uh and in our kids' callings later on.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um, primarily um there's a there's we believe, you know, that the Lord's really working in these stories and teaching our kids things and helping them to think and process through ideas and decisions and what is true and what is good and what is beautiful.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, we're giving book recommendations quite often and people want those practical things.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but also just um, you know, wanting to talk about music and art too, and how there's story in those things and illustrators and um yeah, things along those lines.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I love it.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: And going back to even your the thought of um inspiring imagination, it's kind of sad that we have to, you know, really fight for that, but I think we do.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: I see it more and more in our culture of fighting for them to have the the chance to explore what imagination looks like and imaginative play and how you and you have to foster it and you have to give them tools so they can run with it themselves.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just so grateful that my kids are just I I don't I don't think I as intentionally uh created their imagination as I would like to take credit for.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: But they have really wonderful imaginations and I see the fruit of this even at the age as they are again and again.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I just thank the Lord for it.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: But I think I think we need to talk more about what are some of the things that we're doing that do create it and how to help others because otherwise I think plenty of us parents grew up without tapping into the imagination, and so we're not sure how to pass that on to our kids.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not necessarily valued.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like you know, kids get to a certain age and even adults are like, well, you have to grow up now.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, can get out of the clouds, come on down.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and I think it's really sad.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question, Amy.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I I can agree with you that when I look at my kids, I think, you know, I don't know how much actually I think I don't know how much I did to create it, but maybe it's just not giving them things to do.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: So this is true.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they often am saying, it's okay to be bored, it's good to be bored.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I've I I I actually think a probably a big part of it for us is that we have been very hesitant to give them much technology, yeah, especially in younger ages.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so they really haven't had that choice.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, are they gonna choose an iPad or to to figure out something to do?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or and I it's it's harder, I think, now, even as my youngest has, you know, it's when my oldest was uh, you know, growing up, there really wasn't much, even then, even 12 years old, there wasn't really as much around.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I recognize that it's you know, our culture's even so much, you know, more inundated with it.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And how do we um how do we use it for good?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And how do we, you know, but anyway, that's a whole other subject.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that them not having you know these things at their fingertips that, you know, and I'll say, no, we're not watching TV, you know, excuse me, um, that they've had, then they'll say, you know, talk I'll tell say, you know, you have a beautiful imagination.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like think, let's think of something that you can do.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um I guess I will, as far as something I do consciously do is when we read, I will encourage them to um, you know, might say something like, you know, why why don't you guys go out and act this out and go build, you know, the TV that we read about.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so if I just give them a little bit of a prompt, sometimes they'll go out and start, you know, and then they'll merge stories together, which is really fun.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which those are the best.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: They're they're creating their own.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think just having opportunities, I know this just can be harder, just depending on where you live and if you're you know in an urban area or not, but opportunities to get outside and to see things that would evoke the imagination and you know, yeah, creation, being in nature, and um we have you know some pine trees in our back and some dirt and a tree house, and so those things are inviting to to hopefully help them, you know, to use their imaginations.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and another simple thing we've done is I've always tried to have a lot of dress-up clothes.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so they, you know, will yeah, it's interesting to see.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: They'll sometimes they'll pick a theme and you know, they'll do prairie or they'll do World War II or um, you know, combine different things.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: So um yeah, that's usually what we ask um from Mimi, my side of the family for Christmas is some sort of dress up, which has gotten challenging as they've gotten bigger.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: They always get sad when they grow out of their old stuff and it's all a little bit more of an investment, but if they're still asking for it at this age, I'm like, yes, and yes, I will buy those for you all day long.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: To do that.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think but I think the whole concept too is like you said, the um I I think we talk a lot about like, you know, limiting media and like the evils of it and not participating in it.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: And there's even a new campaign about like wait until eighth grade, um, like the parents signing a petition or like a promise or pledge or whatever.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: And those things are super awesome.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm absolutely an advocate, and I kind of laugh at the same time that we're having to tell our kids they have to wait till 13 to have a smartphone.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: But the whole point of it being is we can say no to all these things, but what are we gonna say yes to?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think inviting them to story and giving them really great rich literature and adventure in that is um and doing it as a family and participating together with it what helps the you know, the pull, the gravitational pull of the you know, social media and everything in the phone to help our kids switch gears for sure.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely so how do you define then?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: How are we defining what's a good story, what's a good discipleship story, what is a life-forming story?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like how, because there's so many choices.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do we stay like are we just talking the Christian genre?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Are we talking about some other things?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like at what point do you kind of expand out where they kind of have to see, you know what I mean?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like there's so many choices out there.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have a hard time sometimes selecting books that are appropriate age appropriate that will capture their interest.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, but that will do that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you do that?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I so I well just say first when when I really when I started, because I'm sure there are people who are thinking, I don't even know where to start, you know.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I especially if your kids are really young, but um, when I didn't have any idea, um I went to resources that that I trusted based on other recommendations.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So one of them was is called Honey for a Child's Heart.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so basically it's what I would call like a book on books.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a book.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a book that tells you gives you some, you know, some some inspiration and some information and some guidance about why they these books were chosen chosen, but then really it's a reference.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it categorizes things into, you know, fantasy or history or picture books or things like different um uh honors like Caldecott and things like that.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that's how I first started, just because I didn't really, I wouldn't have been able to identify any of the factors that I was looking for.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and a lot of what I had read um as a as a child.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Some some was good, but other things were just more more or less a waste of time, you know.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Twelve, right?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um all the all the babysitter club and valley high.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: My kids are never reading those.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course, then I love super fudge, though.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was pretty legit.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: That one.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: All the fudge books.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And my kids like those, but then I'm like, well, what about can we not recaptain in the pants?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: What about something with some dust?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yes.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, yeah, and of course, Sarah Clarkson, who I've mentioned, who was the founder of Story Forms, she also wrote a book called Read for the Heart.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that is awesome.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, what was it?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: A good one.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's called Read for the Heart.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Read for the Heart.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's a good one.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so this was kind of her journey through her childhood with her parents and what she had kind of just her perspective on the books that she read.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it personalizes it a bit more, and she explains, you know, why something was really meaningful or brought truth to her in different ways.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so those two have been um very pivotal.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then since then I'll I'll consult different book lists.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I think over the years, as I really dove into some of these books, I started to see some particular characteristics or things that that I could now kind of try to look for if I was reading something new, or if I've, you know, especially with story form, you know, people are bringing things to us, like, what do you think of this?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Read this.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think some of those things, um, you know, it's kind of the like you said, Amy Twaddle, like not it being the opposite of that.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it being something intriguing, something well written with with uh great language, um having a real literary quality, um, complex characters who come alive, you know, you really see the the various parts of human nature.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, exactly.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I also think I'm not I'm not looking for something that only shows the good side of people.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes I think people want like, I just want everyone to be to be good and make good choices for everything to work out.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that that's you know something, that's not life, and that's not helpful helpful to our children.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's helpful for them to see the process of a character going through their their temptation, or you know, like of course we you know, think about Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings, you know, these characters that are developed and but yet they're they're normal people like us.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we can resonate with just feeling like a normal person, but yet at the same time feeling like the Lord has given us something to do and a calling and and tapping into that.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so but for our kids to be able to see the tensions and the complexities in the human heart, I think is really important.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm I think more often than not, I I tend to go back into you know classics or fairy tales or books that have that make these lists often stand the test of time.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And people, I'm trusting that people who have been reading them and recommended them and these books that are still around um must have something to offer.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Even if something's like I had it, I mean, I'm still in the process of reading through a lot of classics and some that are very challenging.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And there are times when I think, uh, you know, is this really worth it?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is so long.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes so easy.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Say hard.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: And if you have it, if you're playing ketchup for all the, you know, yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah of not reading them.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I keep coming back to in those moments when I think that of okay, these these books have stood the test of time, they've been around for many years.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: There must be something here, maybe, maybe because I haven't been trained to to see it yet, but I'm gonna trust that there's something here that's worth dating for that's worth reading through.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: So now have your kids been eager readers or you know, I mean, for me, we're we have multiple, you know, uh different desires for reading and whatnot.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: So how do you how do you kind of help some of those who are who are not really interested in reading or who just prefer to read the twaddle over some of the you know character?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have yeah, kids in various places as well.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um my oldest has always been a little bit more of a voracious reader and um you know goes through things fairly quickly, is very interested.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: She'll be the one to say, Okay, mom, I'm finished with this, you know, what um what I'm like, oh my favorite question.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I love it.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and I think it, you know, initially there have been times where she has said, I don't know if I'm gonna like this or just you know, it's like interesting what they they'll they'll make that blink decision about something about the cover or the you know, whatever.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't even know why.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: There's just something that turns them off and they're just gonna be obstinate about it.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: But over time, um, my oldest, like she'll often say, Oh, I don't know.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time, not always, but she'll say, Oh, mom, that was really good.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you, you know, recommended that to me.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, Okay, yes, give me a little bit here.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: That most of the time now she'll say, Okay, you know, the I'll I'll dive into this.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I have another another child who has just been a little more hesitant.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's been other things that she's more interested in, um, probably gravitates a little bit more towards, you know, something really simple or easy, or just so just kind of being able to hand her things I really want her to read, you know, the response hasn't always been that.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been a little bit more challenging.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've had to to dig a little deeper and think and pray about what what's gonna connect.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I just did that too.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: As I read um Sarah's book and then also Honey, is it Honey for the Heart, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: The other Honey for the Child's Heart.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Honey for the Child's Heart.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: I um I was struggling with that as well with one of mine, and she is the artist.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so I finally I read that and I heard something else that made me go, you know what, I need to go back to picture books for her.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like really they're rich classics with that are picture books and can communicate with just as wonderful stories that she can devour and feel like she's accomplished and she's gone through it.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: And for her, it sparks her artist imagination.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: And um has definitely, you know, kind of helped with some of that wrestle because I still like we're still even after a couple years of doing that, we're still kind of like, okay, here's this, not this.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and at the same time, while wanting her to read, um, always the literature selection for her for school is really tough because there's just like you know, very little that interests her at this point in time.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is so hard.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think I'm so passionate about it too.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, you you know, I want, I don't want to put pressure, but I want her to love certain things.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I've had to do the same thing, Amy.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've just had to go a little slower, just try to, you know, be patient.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, maybe maybe giving her things that are a little bit easier and you know, giving her confidence and letting her be interested.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I also I'm trying to have the long view in mind, you know, it's I don't want to have see this as a journey that I'm trying to cram in all these things, but you know, sometimes it's just you know, a handful of books that are that they remember that are most meaningful, and so just realizing you know there's a long road ahead, and I'm I'm trying to instill this love for learning and love for reading, and so that's awesome.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to push too hard and then have her reject it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally, totally isn't that the fine dance of parenting with all things?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: We were just um reading a book about um Abraham Lincoln, and oh, I'm trying to think who it was.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was about him and another an abolitionist um in his time.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was reading it to this particular child, and we read a couple chapters, and I said, Isn't this so interesting and fascinating?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, No, Mom.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Not really.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe for you.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so just yeah, just I think really it's one of those situations I'm I really am prayerful about and like Lord, okay.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, only you can stir and ign up and ignite these things, and so just lead me and direct me and and what things to bring the her way.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I like how you you mentioned there because I have definitely done this method as well, where you read aloud the beginning of the book.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Get them, try to hook them in.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, let's let's at least try to get through this assignment because you have to do this.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: So let's figure out how to embrace it.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Do you guys often read aloud to your kids?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure, I mean, I know Glenn's incredibly smart and an avid reader himself.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: So do you guys have that been a family practice, you know, throughout their childhood so far, or kind of what's that rhythm for you guys?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was um there were many things I've been fairly inconsistent about, but I think my passion for reading has given me to be pretty consistent with reading aloud to them every day.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think it was when our two older girls were younger, I would read to them usually like before nap time every day, and then again at night.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so there were certain books that we read so many times they could start to recite certain lines, and now I've read them by the fourth child.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh wow, this is something new.
• 32:05
  unknown: Yeah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: But um, and so and then we've had I've I've really tried to kind of figure it out with my husband, like how how can we bring him into this, and you know, really a desire to have him do that as well.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's easier for me.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm with them, you know, during the day, more so.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been easier for me to be consistent be consistent.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: But we have had family read alouds and not we don't always have one going on.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we've done like different chronicles of Narnia or just just ones that uh you know, I think that maybe everybody could connect to at night.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so we'll but you know, I mean sometimes all the kids are, you know, some of them are paying attention, other ones are running around, other ones.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just like the all that's not so it's it's a little bit crazy sometimes, but yeah, we just try to keep going, try to keep planting the seeds.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, but I read um I read Sally's book different, and it made me feel so much better about um couple situations with their kids.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: But in particular, she talked about how one of them would like be hanging upside down and doing cart rolls while she did read alouds.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Yes, this is my home.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for telling me that I still fight for it, they still do it even though they're like I know it's seemingly off in La La Land while I'm you know slugging through this rich narrative.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, yeah.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think sometimes I'm surprised too when they're doing things or jumping around and then I'll say, Okay, can you tell me about what we read?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm amazed sometimes at what they can actually remember.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And for some reason, I think being active actually helps them, you know.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think when we are, we have a um a time in the morning when we all read together.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because some kids are doing some things independently at different times.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: We have a have a time during the morning, and uh, usually I'll I'll let them do something, even you know, if it's I think it they all listen better, even if they're just drawing or doing something with their hands often.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think they can they can listen better.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: My most active child is the one he'll be doing who knows what.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, sometimes my husband will say, Okay, now repeat what I said, and he'll repeat it verbatim.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like he was he was listening, you know.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: If we can get past the need to feel respected by eye to eye contact and go, they're listening, they really are.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: They're doing it.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: You just gotta learn what works.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I think I think too for um because I know a lot of you know, I had the benefit of being able to homeschool for several years and doing the read aloud during the day.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: But um the times we weren't, I was because it was kind of the same thing, you know, where they when you when they were younger, it helped with nap time, it helped with bedtime, and then they get past that age where they're doing okay and they're even reading independently.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's easy to kind of to stop doing the read aloud um portion.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: A couple things was I did go back to the picture books a couple years ago going, you know what, my oldest didn't get to read this because I didn't know about it.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: She can benefit just as much as can I, just like me going back and reading books that I didn't.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: But then also knowing that for in our family, different seasons um allow us that time and that rhythm to read aloud and to be okay when you know it's not that season.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: And for us, it just happens to be winter because work is slower and we all are by the fireplace and it sounds very idyllic.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's not always, but it does give us some of that space, you know, a couple nights a week where we can actually do it together and make time for it, even if they're hanging upside down off the couch.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think audiobooks are great for this too, just you know, especially, you know, if for if kids are doing, you know, full-time traditional school and you're trying to figure out how to squeeze this in and or maybe it's whatever type of schooling you know anyone is doing, just car time.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody has car time it's for some for some things, or you're driving to activities or driving to school pickup or whatever.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we I actually try to squeeze quite a bit in that time too.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have to admit, I sometimes just really begrudge getting in the car and like traffic, and I'd just rather not do all the driving to things, but I'm trying to make the most of it, and audiobooks is one way that we can do that.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and oftentimes I don't know what this book is gonna be, mom.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: But um, we just recently read Matilda, listened to Matilda, uh that was a great one, and um, and then another book called Holes.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think oh yeah, it's a good one.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good one.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was yeah, a different type of storyline than we're used to.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And at first they were like, What is this, mom?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Kids digging holes.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is so weird, you know.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: But then there came this moment, like, we're just gonna keep listening.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, even my five-year-old was like, Okay, mom, what's going on?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and she was interested.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's awesome.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of one way to redeem that time that can sometimes feel not so fun.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: I was just talking about this to a friend who still homeschools, and she was asking me about all of this because I told her that I had missed um getting to read um, you know, some of the things, but I said I've most of them I found, you know, even at the library on CD.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, I got all we just did a road trip out there to Colorado Springs and back, and it was just the kids and I.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I've kind of figured out a rhythm of driving, but one of those is I got like everything giving book I could on CD, and we listened to that for a couple hours, and it was just really neat to like, oh yeah, this is you know, one it was just getting us in, you know, readying our hearts for Thanksgiving and you know, enjoying that tradition while we were, you know, making progress on a drive.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: It was like the best of both worlds, you know, combining.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: We're it's a win-win.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're you know, both driving and getting to read really good books.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's great.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: Holly, what are some of the books that you guys are going to be recommending for Christmas?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because now we're in the middle of the season and maybe we can get some of these on audiobooks or from our library or we can find on Amazon.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what are kind of some of your favorites and then ones that you guys will be sharing with Story Storyformed this year?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, yeah, I I really love collecting Christmas books.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a huge pack.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's yeah, there's so many, but I'll yeah, I'll just try to throw out a few.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the ones that we have really enjoyed is called The Legend of St.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Nicholas.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh neat.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Daily McCall.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's a probably two or three I've seen out there on St.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Nicholas, and it's not the actual historical account, but it it's kind of like what we know of St.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Nicholas is kind of woven into a fictionalized story of a little boy.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so that so St.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Nicholas Day is December 6th.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so we um well, so I I mean everyone has a different thought about you know if to do Santa or if, you know, if to incorporate or not.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I really love this because it, you know, is kind of the historical foundation of where the idea of Santa Claus came from and that St.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Nicholas really was, or Nicholas was a real person.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: But kind of gives you little bits about his life and how he blessed other people, um, and helps us to think about, helps our kids to think about how we can love and serve others in this season of of longing and advent, and you know, how we can um maybe be an answer to some of those prayers from others or other needs from other people.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just love that it kind of gives them that perspective of looking outward.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that that's a great one.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the gift of the magi is an old one that probably a lot of people have heard of by O.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Henry.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and I what I love about this one is just the this idea of you know, really not that they didn't really have a lot in this in this story.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: The theme is really all about sacrificial giving and sacrificial love again.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, that's a great one that even yeah, even when my kids were younger, there's something that they really connected to about even though the if you have the original version of it, that it's the language isn't really easy.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's some things that that everyone connects to.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a great whole family.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's been redone a few times with different versions that I think I the concept of self that comes through in a story is really invaluable for kids.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yes.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then another one that we really enjoyed is called The Christmas Miracle of Jonathan To Me.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I haven't heard of it.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I might butcher the last name, but it's something like Wjachowski.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um Russian orange Russian or something.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm sure I'm butchering it.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um that one, the the copy that we purchased came with the CD too, and the narrator has a really deep, rich voice.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so some I don't know about you, you gals, but I like with CDs that kind of get every, you know, I'll like we have Christmas CDs stories stuck in my little CD pouch in the car.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I could have taken these out, but so every once in a while, my youngest will be like, Mom, let's listen to the Christmas miracles.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like sweltering in July.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you will in the middle of July, be like, I want to listen to that story.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, I know it's out of the car, so okay.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but um, yeah, that I really love the the narrator of that one.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um it's it's a sweet story about um a woodcarver who really had some great loss in in his life and losing his his wife and his baby.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't, I mean it's a children's book, it doesn't focus on that, but it does just kind of tell you why he's it starts out saying he's really gloomy and doesn't have a you know a positive outlook on life and just briefly mentions why.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so he's new to this village, and so no one really knows why he's like this.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: But how he is known is that he is the best wood carver in this village.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so um a widow and her son come to um come to him to ask to make these these wooden carvings.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's kind of the story of how each each party kind of affects each other and brings life and hope to each other.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that sounds so sweet.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a really sweet story.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: We all really, really enjoy that one.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another one is called Holly and Ivy.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: By Godin or God and it's Geo D.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yes, I know that one.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and illustrated by Barbara Cooney, who Barbara Cooney's a favorite author and illustrator of ours.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is it's kind of some different stories woven together about um a girl and a family and a doll.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so this this girl is who who's an orphan, she's wanting um to to be with family at Christmas, which she's an orphan.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: She's kind of imagining that she has this grandmother and tries to find her, and and then there's a doll in this shop that really wants a home.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's just a few different storylines that that sort of weave together.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just so it's a story, it it's kind of far-fetching, but yet at the same time, a story of hope that I think the whole family can I love that walk into.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, for the whole family, where I don't know, I I've not outgrown any of the Christmas stories yet.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm unpacking them every year.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: I get excited too.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the last one that I was thinking about is The Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've I've read it a handful of times and would I I haven't I'd like to read it every year during this time, but don't quite always get that accomplished.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I did read it last year and um, can you normally read that aloud to them?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have not yet.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just read it.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I so Sophia, my oldest, has read it as well.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: I do have a children's illustration well, I don't know if it's it's a little bit abridged, I guess.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I am thinking about uh reading that this year.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good idea.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is a good idea.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder, I've never actually read the book.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen several different variations of the movie.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you, even the Disney one is pretty creepy.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering, I mean, like, we kind of started watching it, and I was like, well, maybe not.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because my youngest was his eyes are really big.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: But so I'm wondering, like, is the book I would imagine maybe the book is a little easier to read without the visuals.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I definitely would say so.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: When I I mean even for me, when when I read it, it doesn't seem scary to me.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I tried to watch we all tried to watch last Christmas or December.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm trying to remember it was one of the newer versions of the Christmas Carol, and everyone was real the kids were like, This is scary.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm sorry.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've so we stopped watching it.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: My mom's even been in like theater renditions.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: So they're kind of creepy.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: The book is definitely better.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like that with so many books, isn't it?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you read it, you just you're not visualizing what the violence looks so different in black and white than those on the screen.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: With audio.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: Those are awesome.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Holly, are you going to have those like um like uh some sort of recommendations like that on your website that people can download?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: I know you do have lots of resources like that that people can go and download and get book lists and that sort of thing.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we definitely will.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're gonna be doing um a podcast that'll come out right at the end of November that'll be all about Christmas and Christmas books.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll have these on there and then we'll have some more on a list.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we'll definitely have that list available.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome, awesome.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: This will air maybe I think just the week after that one, so that'll be perfect.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: So that will be up and ready for everyone to grab.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: And we'll also put um some of these in the show notes and then some of Ashley's and I've recommended that we've enjoyed reading with our kids and our families and all of that sort of thing.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: So for young and old alike.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't think we ever grow past needing to get to do that.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: No thing that completely well, Holly, this has been awesome.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: I love love watching um just this all unfold and it's been kind of fun because uh I mean, books are near and dear to my heart, and so it definitely caught my attention when I started seeing things spring up on social media, and I knew you that you and the Clarksons were dear friends, and um just what a beautiful gift of partnership and for you to get to um to share this message that's not just on someone else's heart but your heart as well, and you're living it out, which is um just so beautiful.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for having me.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's been such a wonderful treat to talk with you again and to be on here.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, and we look forward to seeing more from Story Formed.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: All right, talk to you soon, Holly.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_03: All right, Merry Christmas.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_03: Aren't you so excited to curl up with a good book?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: That usually seems like a good idea and a good way to spend my days.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: But most importantly, I feel encouraged to gather my family around good story this evening.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: Holly has put together a helpful Christmas book list, as well as Ashley and I have included a few of our own.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: We put all these helpful details in the show notes.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: And if you haven't already listened to our last two episodes of our special Christmas season, be sure and listen to Happier, healthier holidays and abide with us.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: These conversations were so good and encouraging as we look for more ways to live unplugged, purposeful, and intentional this Christmas season.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: Until next week.