Latest / Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries / Episode 120: Opportunity (ft. Mark Campbell)

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Episode 120: Opportunity (ft. Mark Campbell) · Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries

• 0:00
  What is a piece of advice that has stuck with you over the years?
• 0:04
  Hmm.
• 0:06
  I, I'm not sure that I have a single piece of advice.
• 0:11
  Um, I guess, uh, one of the things that, um, my father told me.
• 0:19
  When I expressed a desire, I wish I was 21.
• 0:25
  I wish I was older.
• 0:28
  And he basically told me, don't wish your life away.
• 0:33
  Well now I'm 75 and I still wish a couple of things, but, but, uh, he was right.
• 0:43
  Don't, don't wish your life away.
• 0:48
  Is that similar to what you would tell your 21-year-old self?
• 0:52
  Probably.
• 0:54
  Probably, I, I, I think in looking again, I'm 75, so you look back quite frequently, where did you go wrong, where did you go?
• 1:03
  Right.
• 1:04
  That sort of thing.
• 1:05
  uh, I think I have often wished that I had applied myself better.
• 1:13
  As a young man, um, I went to college because everybody thought I was supposed to go to college.
• 1:19
  I didn't want to go to college.
• 1:21
  I didn't know what I wanted to do, et cetera.
• 1:24
  I wasted a lot of time that could have been much better utilized as a young person.
• 1:31
  I did learn some things.
• 1:33
  Um, I learned how to do research.
• 1:36
  I learned, uh, so it was valuable to the, to the various activities that I undertake.
• 1:42
  Now, where did you go to school?
• 1:44
  well, I, I graduated from Bloomington, Lincoln in 1968, and I was in the first class at Normandale.
• 1:54
  fall of 68, and I was at Normandale for 68 and 69 and off and on for another 20 years.
• 2:04
  I, I attended classes at the university, off and on.
• 2:08
  I used education as I needed it.
• 2:12
  Uh, so when I.
• 2:14
  When I first got involved in real estate, for example, I took all the real estate classes at the University of Minnesota so that educationally I had the qualifications to be a real estate broker, but at the time I was working for a government agency and we couldn't have a broker's license.
• 2:32
  So it didn't benefit me directly, but indirectly, I, I knew everything that they knew.
• 2:40
  Um, so it, it.
• 2:42
  But I did that independently of any kind of a real study program.
• 2:47
  So just, used it for personal edification.
• 2:54
  Is it somewhat of a disservice asking a 17, 18-year-old high school grad, hey, what do you wanna do for the rest of your life?
• 3:02
  Absolutely.
• 3:03
  Absolutely.
• 3:05
  And as you suggest, I was a 17-year-old grad.
• 3:10
  so I, I knew, uh, some things that I liked and some things that I didn't like, but I had no idea whatsoever what kind of a career I was going to have.
• 3:22
  And I can honestly say to the day I retired, I didn't know what kind of a career I was gonna have.
• 3:29
  I took advantage of the opportunities that came to me, and there I went.
• 3:39
  Imagine for a moment that you were born in the year 1900 at age 14 World War I.
• 3:45
  Breaks out ending at age 18, leaving 22 million dead.
• 3:51
  Shortly after a global pandemic appears the Spanish flu, which kills 50 million people.
• 3:58
  You survive at 20 years.
• 4:02
  At 29, you survive the global economic crisis that starts with the fall of the New York Stock Exchange causing inflation, unemployment, and hunger.
• 4:11
  At age 33, Nazim comes to power When you're 39, world War II starts and ends when you're 45 with 60 million dead At 52 years old, the Korean War begins when you're 64 years old.
• 4:26
  The Vietnam War starts and ends when you're 75.
• 4:32
  Then a person born in 1985 thinks that their grandparents have no idea how difficult life is, not knowing they have survived several wars and disasters.
• 4:44
  Well, I, I can do.
• 4:47
  Even a tch better than than that.
• 4:50
  My grandfather was born in 1895, and so he was, uh, conscripted in World War I, fortunately for him, he was con conscripted about three weeks before the war was over, so he didn't ever had to actually go anywhere besides basic training.
• 5:12
  but he also survived the Great Depression.
• 5:15
  He survived World War ii.
• 5:17
  So I, I can see very clearly, uh, how those things would have impacted me, uh, because I know how they impacted him.
• 5:30
  Um, I have had the, uh, opportunity, to be drafted.
• 5:38
  my military service was one day when I went to the physical down in the old federal building in Minneapolis.
• 5:47
  and by the end of the day, I had failed my physical so I didn't have to go.
• 5:52
  But in 1970, that was not a bad thing, not having to go so.
• 6:00
  the, the 20th century, um, is a very interesting century to study.
• 6:08
  i I do a lot of genealogical research.
• 6:11
  Um, when I retired in 2007, uh, I started doing genealogy in earnest.
• 6:20
  And one of the first things that I learned in, in trying to do genealogy is you really needed to study the history of the time in order to understand why your ancestors did what they did.
• 6:33
  Because so many of these things just didn't make any sense.
• 6:37
  You know, why did they move from Ireland to, to the United States?
• 6:42
  what caused them to think that things were gonna be better somewhere else?
• 6:46
  Um.
• 6:47
  Of course they didn't have the kind of newspapers and media that we have today.
• 6:52
  so somebody gave'em an idea that it was gonna be better.
• 6:56
  A very good faith idea though.
• 6:57
  Yeah.
• 6:58
  To your point, yeah.
• 6:59
  There's not a lot of communication going on.
• 7:01
  That's a big decision to make.
• 7:03
  Yeah.
• 7:03
  Simply based on someone saying, Hey, you should consider, well, and I had, um, I'm largely, uh, great Britain genealogy and.
• 7:15
  many of my ancestors were seamen and they, um, uh, ended up in North America because they were working boats, and that's how they got to Canada and the United States.
• 7:28
  they took advantage of opportunities that were presented to them once they got here.
• 7:33
  So.
• 7:36
  How important is it to remain curious throughout life, just in general?
• 7:41
  Well, it makes it a lot more interesting.
• 7:44
  I've had a great curiosity about a number of things and.
• 7:53
  As you delve into it, you realize there are other things that are maybe associated or unassociated with it, that you never would've thought of if you hadn't started doing that level of research.
• 8:08
  I enjoy research.
• 8:09
  I, I, I have been the LEO for, uh, cataract Lodge.
• 8:16
  For, I think 22 years, and I describe it as the best job in the lodge.
• 8:23
  Why do you feel that way?
• 8:24
  Because it keeps you doing the research, it keeps you doing the work to, to, uh, answer the questions that your brethren want to have answered.
• 8:37
  And, uh, after 30 years of doing it, it's, uh, it's tough.
• 8:42
  I say 30, it's only 20.
• 8:45
  I, I'm not quite that old, but I have asked each of the, the respective masters who've asked me to continue as the LEO, uh, to give me ideas about what they want to hear about because they.
• 9:02
  the function of the education officer is very broad and it covers all kinds of areas.
• 9:08
  and, uh, sometimes I get some good questions and it requires some work, and other times it's a lot easier.
• 9:16
  I bring Reed in to tell'em what to, what things are all about and, uh, it's a good job.
• 9:22
  I, I enjoy it a lot.
• 9:25
  Do you think that curiosity piece is what helps bring the meaning out of our core values, our value teachings?
• 9:33
  Some of the meaning behind I, I do.
• 9:37
  Um, the, when you, when you think about it, we have, uh, several fairly trite expressions that we give.
• 9:47
  Uh, take a good man, make him better.
• 9:50
  Um, you know, I don't like that one.
• 9:51
  Right.
• 9:52
  Well, I understand.
• 9:54
  but it, it, uh, it provides an open door, uh, uh Sure.
• 10:02
  To describe what that is, because that's what you really want.
• 10:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:07
  Not, not that little bit.
• 10:10
  Well, that little phrase that.
• 10:12
  We don't make anybody anything.
• 10:14
  Yeah, exactly.
• 10:14
  We do provide the path, the tools to become a better version of oneself for that personal growth.
• 10:21
  We can't take a bad man and make him good, but we can take someone who.
• 10:26
  Is committed to the pursuit of becoming that better version of oneself.
• 10:31
  I wish I could scrub so much of our prior marketing efforts over the last Yeah.
• 10:36
  Or brand awareness over the bath past few years.
• 10:39
  Well, and, and that's true.
• 10:41
  Um, I agree with you 100% that, uh, what we really do is provide the opportunity for the, the individual.
• 10:53
  To expand his horizons and to do the kinds of good works that we, uh, espouse, uh, and give him the opportunity, to join with like-minded individuals, uh, to accomplish a mission.
• 11:11
  What led you to pursue becoming a Freemason?
• 11:15
  That's a long, long story.
• 11:18
  My father was raised in 1953, raised as a master mason.
• 11:23
  Yep.
• 11:24
  uh, so as a child I was exposed to freemasonry little blue books that you couldn't read.
• 11:34
  it, um, it was laying on the counter.
• 11:37
  It was laying on the table, when I became a mason.
• 11:41
  I recognized the ritual from riding in the backseat as a small child and my dad and his buddy who were working on proficiency or what, whatever.
• 11:55
  Um, were talking back and forth in these, saying the same thing over and over again.
• 12:01
  And as a child you're thinking, that's funny.
• 12:04
  Why are they doing that?
• 12:06
  but.
• 12:07
  When, when I had to, uh, learn that proficiency and, and this was, um, my dad was a free and accepted Mason in Michigan, and their, uh, ritual is a slightly different than the ancient free and accepted ritual that Minnesota uses.
• 12:30
  But it's sufficiently alike to know that the st same story is being told.
• 12:38
  So that's where it all started.
• 12:40
  when I was a youngster, uh, teenager, uh, my dad was always encouraging me to join dLee and, uh, it was a point in time where my dad didn't know what he was talking about.
• 12:56
  He, uh, uh, I was not quite likely to do anything that he wanted done.
• 13:04
  It's having the opposite effect, so I never joined DA, but I was exposed to it because I had several classmates that were members of Camelot chapter in Richfield and, uh, uh, in particular, A young fella used to come in on, on Mondays and tell me all the fun things they had done on the weekend, and, gee, I should join up.
• 13:27
  My dad's a mason, so you, you should, you should be able to.
• 13:32
  And, uh, never did it.
• 13:33
  Never did it.
• 13:34
  And then, uh, as, as we got a little older, my brother Doug and I both started investigating Masonry about the same time.
• 13:47
  We, uh, together, uh, met with several guys from Richfield Lodge talked about potential in, in what it would be good for us.
• 14:00
  And in 1980, Doug submitted his petition and joined Richfield Lodge.
• 14:06
  I didn't, I had just started a new job and I had, uh.
• 14:13
  I just couldn't see how I could commit the time to it, uh, until I got established.
• 14:19
  Uh, what was your job?
• 14:21
  Your new job was?
• 14:22
  Uh, my new job was working for the US Department of Housing and Urban Development as what they called a loan specialist.
• 14:30
  And, it was a point in time where the department had several programs that had had grown up.
• 14:40
  Without skilled credit managers behind them.
• 14:45
  I was a credit manager at the time and, uh, I was hired to try and, uh, straighten up the program, so to speak.
• 14:54
  So I didn't know what, what my obligation was gonna be.
• 14:58
  I continued because Doug immediately went into the line.
• 15:03
  I attended a lot of lodge functions.
• 15:06
  I, uh, attended the installations for the next eight years.
• 15:10
  And, uh, so in 1988 when he was Master of the Lodge, uh, he said, are you ever gonna turn that petition in?
• 15:20
  And,'cause he knew I had filled it out.
• 15:22
  I just never said that.
• 15:24
  Eight years though.
• 15:24
  Yeah.
• 15:25
  Yeah.
• 15:26
  Well, it didn't change the petition, so that was okay.
• 15:31
  So I put my petition in and Doug raised me in in June of 1988.
• 15:36
  So, uh, what a cool memory he's got.
• 15:39
  He's got me by about eight years in membership.
• 15:44
  As we record.
• 15:45
  We are just ahead of our annual communication happening in wait park.
• 15:49
  On a side note, how many annual communications have you attended?
• 15:52
  Is it too many to count?
• 15:53
  No, I, I, I have been a mason since 1988, so that means 37.
• 16:00
  You've been to every one?
• 16:01
  Uh, yeah, I think so.
• 16:04
  I think so because, um, um, in, I might've, I might have missed one or two in, in the, uh, in the beginning, but, um, Because Doug was so active in Grand Lodge, he, he used to call on me to, to be a gopher for, uh, things that he was responsible for.
• 16:28
  So even though I didn't have an official role at Grand Lodge, I was usually there.
• 16:35
  Um.
• 16:37
  Then of course, I, I like many of us.
• 16:40
  In 1988, I became, uh, a mason.
• 16:44
  In, in the fall of 88, I became the senior or junior deacon.
• 16:50
  And, uh, so I was in the line and, uh, things haven't changed much since then.
• 16:55
  So, so by, by 1990 I was a, a junior warden and, uh, a member of Grand Lodge.
• 17:02
  So.
• 17:03
  may, maybe it's not 36, but it's probably 35.
• 17:08
  It's quite a few.
• 17:09
  Yeah.
• 17:10
  Your brother had mentioned someone merely making a suggestion to him, Hey, you should do the proficiency.
• 17:16
  You should, become, and it was just a nudge.
• 17:20
  Nobody said, Hey, you have to do this.
• 17:23
  It was just.
• 17:24
  Can you think of anything like that where a brother, maybe someone older, respected that older, wiser, someone who said, mark, have you ever thought about doing, pursuing Blank?
• 17:35
  Yeah, I can, I can, I can name him.
• 17:38
  that we had a past master in Richfield by the name of Kendall Conway.
• 17:43
  And Ken was, um, A very active Blue Lodge Mason, a very active Scottish right Mason.
• 17:52
  And so when I became, uh, a Mason and uh, he recognized the fact that I could put two sentences together, he encouraged me to become a Scottish right Mason.
• 18:08
  And once I did that, and I did that in 1989.
• 18:13
  And, uh, once I did that, he encouraged me to take over one of his parts.
• 18:21
  and of course I wasn't, uh, I never considered myself to be a ritualist.
• 18:26
  I could put two sentences together, but they had to be of my own making not somebody else's.
• 18:32
  Uh, so he, he, he offered me an opportunity, uh, to take a, a position that's called the Wise Ruler in the 15th degree.
• 18:43
  It's not a difficult part, but it, it's, you're on the floor at the beginning, you're on the floor at the end, and there's two and a half hours or two hours in between.
• 18:55
  I was to be his understudy.
• 18:58
  And so he gave me a copy of a script and I started trying to, trying to learn it.
• 19:06
  when I went into the Scottish Rite, I was part of a one day class, so we didn't get to see the 15th degree.
• 19:14
  So I had never seen the degree.
• 19:17
  I had a script that contained the parts I needed to know it didn't have the whole script.
• 19:24
  When the time came around, uh, the following cycle, Ken had a daughter that, uh, suffered from MS and she had a flare up and he had to go to Texas to take care of her.
• 19:38
  so I ended up having to do the part having never seen the degree.
• 19:44
  uh, fortunately we had, we had a good team.
• 19:48
  We had a good degree director, so I did get to do a couple of rehearsals, but the first one was Rocky and, uh, I, I did that part for 15 years.
• 20:01
  Who's in your Masonic Hall of Fame?
• 20:04
  I had, uh, I mentioned to you earlier that I had the good fortune, uh, when I was a young mason of having been influenced by, several, uh, hall of Fame.
• 20:21
  Um, Rod Larson, who was the grandma in 94, 95, Ralph Holquist, uh, who was, I think 87 or 88, somewhere in there.
• 20:37
  Um, both were influences on me and both provided.
• 20:44
  a pattern to follow, um, as, as you did things.
• 20:50
  Um, Ralph was, um, uh, for an older guy, Ralph was, uh, a proponent of computers.
• 21:02
  Ralph was a, a fire captain on the Minneapolis Fire Department, so he didn't work with computers.
• 21:09
  But he saw the value in computers and, and he encouraged us, some of the younger people, to, to set up a, um, first we did a, uh, Masonic bulletin board back in the days of bulletin boards.
• 21:26
  uh, we did the first, um, internet presence when the worldwide web came out.
• 21:33
  We did the first, um.
• 21:36
  Web pages and that sort of thing.
• 21:39
  Rodney was a, um, a proponent of change in an institution that does not deal with change very well.
• 21:50
  You see me clutching my chest right now.
• 21:52
  Yeah.
• 21:53
  Yeah.
• 21:54
  so when, when Rod was coming up in the Grand Lodge line.
• 21:59
  I was coming up in the Richfield Lodge line and uh, uh, so we had a lot of exposure, uh, to each other.
• 22:08
  And Rod was a very interesting guy, A mathematician and a blacksmith.
• 22:13
  That, that tells you a lot about the guy.
• 22:16
  A little precision.
• 22:17
  Yeah.
• 22:19
  for whatever reason, when you mentioned mathematician, it made me remember something.
• 22:23
  Are you a Mensa member?
• 22:24
  Yeah.
• 22:25
  Yes I am.
• 22:26
  For, for those who aren't familiar how are you identified and how do you become involved with mensa?
• 22:32
  Well, at the time that, um, I was investigating Masonry, I was, I was always a, um, audio file and, uh, had stereo equipment and, and that kind of thing.
• 22:50
  uh, so I used to subscribe to, uh, several publications.
• 22:57
  one of them, uh, I think it was called Stereo review.
• 23:01
  in the back it had a little clip that, uh, it had like three questions, and if you answered the three questions it said, then you might be meant some material.
• 23:16
  Contact us at this address.
• 23:18
  And so I answered the three questions and Okay.
• 23:22
  It was pretty easy.
• 23:23
  Mail it in.
• 23:24
  Yeah, mailed it in.
• 23:25
  Um, so then I was invited to take a proctored examination.
• 23:30
  a standard IQ test.
• 23:34
  Um, that's used in, in all kinds of psychology and psychiatry to evaluate mental capacity.
• 23:43
  And so I took the test and, uh, in order to qualify for mensa, you have to have an IQ at or above the 98th percentile.
• 23:56
  And I was at or above the 98th percentile.
• 24:00
  so I joined Mensa.
• 24:02
  Um.
• 24:03
  I have been a member for 44 years, 46 years, and I've never attended a meeting.
• 24:11
  Why not?
• 24:12
  I have it.
• 24:13
  It's never, it's never been at a convenient time and I, and I haven't been that excited about, uh, what they were doing.
• 24:20
  So, the, um, uh, I have in, in my travels have met.
• 24:28
  Probably half a dozen other members, and I've always found them to be interesting.
• 24:34
  the fact that you have a high iq, uh, with a$5 bill, get you a cup of coffee.
• 24:41
  so, uh, it wasn't that important to me and I didn't find it to be an, uh, a very engaging group of people, uh, because the few that I did know.
• 24:55
  Uh, we're just peculiar.
• 24:59
  I see that.
• 25:00
  And so I, but I have, they do some really good work in, uh, in children's advancement in, in, um, That sort of thing and, and working with gifted children and, uh, uh, so I support their efforts, both through the organization and, uh, there's an organ affiliated organization called the MENSA Foundation that does a lot to, to, improve on gifted children's education.
• 25:37
  What comes to mind as far as a favorite Masonic memory or trip?
• 25:43
  in approximately 98 or 99, the Scottish Rite was endeavoring to rewrite their ritual and there was a, a committee that was put together, uh, to do this work.
• 26:03
  It included Dr.
• 26:05
  Dwayne Anderson from Duluth and, uh, uh, Bob Davis from Oklahoma.
• 26:13
  Oklahoma.
• 26:13
  Yeah.
• 26:14
  I think, um, art De Hos was on the committee, and the committee met in Duluth, for a.
• 26:23
  A couple of days to, to talk about what they were gonna do and that sort of thing.
• 26:29
  And at the end of the meeting, uh, the end of the formal meetings, Dwayne Anderson and Bob Davis, uh, were going to have a social event at the, at the end of the, evening.
• 26:44
  And, and we had dinner at the Duluth, uh, Scottish Rite Temple.
• 26:49
  And they invited, people from all over the state to come up for this, just for a dinner.
• 26:57
  so a couple of us went up there and for four hours, Bob Davis and Dwayne Anderson talked about our ritual.
• 27:09
  And if you've ever had the opportunity to have a conversation with either one of them.
• 27:16
  You know exactly what I'm saying about, these two guys were pillars of the fraternity and probably 10 or 12 of us, on an outer ring, sat by listening and, and they would book questions from us if, if we had a question.
• 27:37
  And wanted further clarification.
• 27:39
  Was it captivating though?
• 27:40
  Oh, it, it was the fastest four hours that you've ever spent.
• 27:46
  because they went, uh, all in, all in, yep.
• 27:52
  You've been a supporter of Minnesota Masonic Charities and Masonic Philanthropy overall for a number of years.
• 27:59
  What would you tell a young Mason as far as the importance of supporting.
• 28:04
  Well, I think that, um, masonry, um, has been a charitable organization, to some degree, um, uh, throughout its existence.
• 28:19
  I got involved, in, in two ways.
• 28:24
  in the first.
• 28:26
  I first stepped foot on Masonic Home Campus in 1967.
• 28:34
  In 1967.
• 28:35
  My little sister was a candy striper, a youth volunteer at the Minnesota Masonic home, and my mother would not let her.
• 28:48
  Go home from the home after dark alone.
• 28:51
  So I had to come and pick her up if her, her shift ended after dark.
• 28:56
  So I've been on this campus since 1967, which is 69 years.
• 29:04
  Is that right?
• 29:05
  59.
• 29:06
  59, okay.
• 29:07
  Sorry.
• 29:07
  Only 59 years.
• 29:08
  Close enough.
• 29:10
  Long time.
• 29:11
  And, uh, in, uh, 1993.
• 29:16
  When I was the master of Richfield Lodge and Rodney Larson was the Deputy Grand of the Grand Lodge of Minnesota.
• 29:27
  the Sonic Home Campus was embarking on a major building campaign at that juncture, they were building out the remainder of the 56 cluster homes.
• 29:39
  They were building the addition onto the care center and that sort of thing, and they needed, people to serve on those boards who had real estate knowledge, finance knowledge and that sort of thing.
• 29:55
  And so Rodney asked me to consider being on the board of the Cluster Homes Corporation at that time.
• 30:02
  because in my position at HUD I had a pretty extensive knowledge in senior housing and, and that sort of thing.
• 30:13
  And so I joined, a great bunch of guys, Charlie Nelson, Bob Walker, Larry Bachman, who were all on that board.
• 30:24
  To try and develop the final plans for the remainder.
• 30:30
  I think at that time we had 12 and we were going to 56.
• 30:34
  so I, uh, I started serving there and that, that grew into serving as a, a trustee of Minnesota Masonic home and, and when we, uh, created, uh, uh, Minnesota Masonic Charities.
• 30:48
  I was asked to continue with that organization, so I think all told I was, uh, something on the order of 26 years on the boards at Masonic Charities.
• 31:02
  At the same time I was being considered for, uh.
• 31:07
  The board at Masonic Home, I was also asked to join the board of Minnesota Masonic Foundation, which was a separate corporation at that time, uh, that has since been folded into, uh, Minnesota Masonic Charities and, uh, the Masonic Foundation, originally created the help aid and assist, uh, idea.
• 31:33
  at that time we did a lot of work with, uh, diabetes monitoring in the public schools.
• 31:41
  so I, I did that for, nine years, including I think six or seven as president and, So I, I have been involved in Masonic charity at, at some level almost since I became a mason.
• 31:59
  And in serving in all of those capacities, you saw firsthand the impact being made with elder care, children's health, cancer research.
• 32:08
  You've seen it all.
• 32:09
  Absolutely.
• 32:10
  Absolutely.
• 32:12
  and I've also seen the generosity of our membership.
• 32:16
  in 1994, uh, when Rodney became a, uh, grand Master, he appointed me a district representative.
• 32:27
  he thought I didn't have enough to do.
• 32:29
  So in so doing.
• 32:31
  Um, I had an opportunity to work a little more closely with the Grand Lodge, as opposed to the Masonic, uh, home and the, the charities that were involved.
• 32:44
  But the Grand Lodge had a major charitable component in that they administered the LAD fund, and that lad fund was a, uh, bequest left to the Grand Lodge by uh, Colonel Lad on his passing, and it provided the Grand Lodge with a, uh.
• 33:08
  Fund to be able to do, outreach and, and charitable works, directly from the, from the Grand Lodge, from the fraternity.
• 33:18
  so I saw the things that were done there because it came to the district reps frequently.
• 33:25
  who had the requests to, to deliver the money and, there were a lot of good things that were done and there were a lot of, contributions that were received, um, that most of us don't know about, you know?
• 33:40
  you've been around for a while, what popular movie have you never seen?
• 33:47
  Popular.
• 33:49
  One of my first jobs in, in fact, uh, on my 16th birthday, I started as an usher at the Man France Avenue Drive-in.
• 34:01
  So whether I wanted to see them or not, uh, I saw most of the movies in the sixties, because I was at work and, uh, Some of the more recent issues I, I probably can say that I haven't seen.
• 34:20
  at Easter dinner, we had a discussion and, and the young fellow who was there was, uh, only 18 years old and they had, uh, recently watched Saving Private Ryan, and I'm told it's a very good movie.
• 34:36
  But I have never watched it.
• 34:39
  Um, because many of my, uh, contemporaries and, and relatives, um, uh, were involved in the Vietnam War and that sort of thing, and I've never been a real war movie fan.
• 34:54
  I've seen clips, but I've never seen the whole movie.
• 34:57
  So.
• 34:59
  You went to work as a young man, what was the first thing you purchased with your own money?
• 35:03
  Well, I think by the time I was, by the time I was 16 years old, I had, uh, already bought and sold like three cars, I would, uh, buy a junker, Take it home, fix it up and sell it.
• 35:19
  of course I couldn't drive in, in Minnesota.
• 35:21
  You had to be 16 in my day.
• 35:23
  I, uh, I, I spent a lot of money on cars and tools.
• 35:28
  Did you ever help your brother with that motorcycle?
• 35:31
  A little bit.
• 35:32
  A little bit.
• 35:32
  Uh, Doug had the, his first motorcycle, he was underage and, uh.
• 35:40
  My mother was not a fan of motorcycles.
• 35:43
  No.
• 35:43
  Mother is a fan though.
• 35:44
  And, uh, so his first motorcycle was titled in my name, uh, because I was 18 and he wasn't ah, and, and uh, that did not endear my, uh, me to my mother and he, but, uh, Doug wanted the motorcycle and I got to ride it so.
• 36:04
  What do you find fairly easy that others seem to struggle with?
• 36:10
  Well, I can't honestly say that, um, I have never had a problem with mathematics of any kind, and now I understand why and, and, what you don't understand is, if math comes naturally to you, you don't understand why people can't do it because it's, it's easy.
• 36:36
  Um, and fortunately it was always easy for me.
• 36:41
  When I was in high school, you know, we, we had all the way up to pre-calc and stuff like that.
• 36:47
  and I, I never had, uh, uh, a homework assignment that I had to take home.
• 36:53
  Um, you were one of those.
• 36:55
  Okay.
• 36:55
  I, I just, you know, they'd give you the assignment, you'd do the assignment, and then the class would be over.
• 37:00
  Well, so, that, I'd have to say that that's.
• 37:06
  That's the one math.
• 37:07
  Um, Was there a life expectation you had when you were younger that was way off base?
• 37:17
  I don't think so.
• 37:18
  when I was a good deal younger, I had made plans financially in, in hopes of retiring someday.
• 37:31
  But in terms of my career or, or, uh, education or anything else, I didn't make any plans.
• 37:41
  I, uh, um, took advantage of opportunities that came to me, when there was, um, a possibility of doing something different that, uh, if I was to get a little more education in this area or that area, I went and got the education.
• 38:02
  and it usually worked out.
• 38:03
  It was very rare, but I would also say that.
• 38:08
  I don't think too many people could do what I do today because I had a 27 career, 27 year career with the federal government and I have no college degree.
• 38:21
  So, um, uh, for the most part, they don't hire people without college degrees, so you couldn't do what I did.
• 38:30
  it was a fun ride and, uh, for the most part I enjoyed it.
• 38:35
  even when I retired, I wasn't ready to retire, but the only position that I could aspire to, uh, was occupied by my boss.
• 38:48
  when I talked to my boss about how long he intended to work,'cause he was 10 years older than I was, and he told me he was gonna go at least another five years.
• 38:58
  I'm not gonna sit around five years and wait for that last opportunity.
• 39:04
  And the only other opportunities would be in Washington and nobody in their right mind wants to be in Washington.
• 39:11
  So I'll take a pass on that one.
• 39:12
  Yeah.
• 39:13
  Yeah.
• 39:15
  I retired and uh, and I've had a ball ever since.
• 39:21
  Mark Campbell, you are a pillar of Minnesota Freemasonry.
• 39:25
  Really appreciate you stopping by the studio.
• 39:28
  Thank you, Reed.
• 39:29
  It's been a joy.
• 39:30
  I.