Latest / Babes, how did you get here / She Raised Her Daughter With Ancestors—And Taught Her to Trust Her Intuition

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She Raised Her Daughter With Ancestors—And Taught Her to Trust Her Intuition · Babes, how did you get here

• 0:14
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  You don't want to miss this babes and leave a comment and tell me what do you want to hear out of my next conversation?
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  Your support really helps this community grow.
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  And if you know someone who's quietly been thinking, should they take that next big leap, babes, send them the podcast.
• 0:33
  But it doesn't matter if you have the grades and the active, it doesn't matter.
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  And so that's something obviously I know that now, but then as a 17 year old crushed
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  that I didn't get in, but a friend of mine, like my study, when my study buddy got in and obviously went to Stanford, you go, you go.
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  That was one of those first moments for me because I had had the confirmations and I could back things up with scripture.
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  I was really good.
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  I was a good student, you know, like,
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  And as a recovering people pleaser in my heyday people pleaser days of like, yes, I know this.
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  Like study to show yourself like, you know, so I could back up like why I felt this conviction that this was going to happen for me because certainty was part of the you must be sure.
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  Right.
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  So when it didn't happen, that was a moment where I was like.
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  But isn't it supposed to be that it didn't happen because God knows what you need versus perhaps what you want?
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  Yeah, you can spin it that way too.
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  Okay.
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  But when you get like, you know, the signs and the confirmations and the dreams.
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  And it was a really interesting experience because I had a dream that I was getting in.
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  And it was a very specific dream.
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  Okay.
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  And I said nothing to no one.
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  And then the next day at school, my buddy, like my prayer buddy, study buddy, whatever.
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  She sees me in the hallway and she says she has a dream.
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  And it's the same exact dream that I had.
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  And then she said it gave her such peace because then she knew that she wasn't going to that school alone, that we would be together.
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  So this is where we're coming from.
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  So how did- Did she go?
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  Yeah, she went.
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  Yeah, she went.
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  She went without me.
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  No, not that she went without you, just like how crazy that she's having, you guys are having these dreams together that you're not sharing the dream.
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  Oh wow.
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  So that messed me up.
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  So this is what I mean.
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  No, I understand now why that messed you up.
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  Yes.
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  I was like, I had the dream.
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  I told no one.
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  And it was specific how it, and she sees me and she tells me she has the same dream.
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  Were you resentful that the dream worked out for her and it didn't work for you?
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  No, no, no.
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  She has the dream about me getting in.
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  Oh.
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  That's what I'm saying.
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  I thought my dream was about her.
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  No, we had the same dream.
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  There you go.
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  Retrospectively, what do we think was happening?
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  There you go.
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  Retrospectively, now that I believe in like, I would consider myself more spiritual than religious.
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  I just think that that was like the power of like, you know, your desires.
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  Right.
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  And and we both wanted the same thing.
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  We earnestly wanted the same thing.
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  And so that was our attempt to manifest that.
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  And, but the reality was that wasn't my path.
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  And I knew that, but I didn't know, you know, at the time I didn't know that, but I went to go visit her maybe like a year or so later when she was settled in and I didn't like it.
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  I didn't like it.
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  And it was, and, and yeah.
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  And she also had her challenges with it, but,
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  It worked out for her in the long run.
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  But I was like, oh, I get it.
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  So when you're leaving the church, it's fair to say you decided to leave the, how old are we roughly when we're deciding that this isn't for me?
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  I mean, this is 2020.
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  Okay.
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  And so I'm grown.
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  And you're like, cool, I'm leaving the church.
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  Is that difficult from a family?
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  And when I say family, I don't mean blood family, from this community that you've said that you've always been able to tap into.
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  Are you still able to connect with that church community now that you're not as religious?
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  No.
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  So for me, I think I didn't completely like say I'm done with church because I was like, I have all these years of experience and all this stuff that I've built and that I, you know, for positive or negative, how do I keep the things that I appreciate and then let go of the things that were, I think harmful.
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  What ended up happening was I moved out of that space of like the Pentecostal, the Charismatics, the Bible is infallible.
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  Like I moved out of that doctrine.
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  to more of a progressive type of, you know, way of Christianity where, like, I didn't have to suspend my reality.
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  Like, I didn't have to leave reason at the door, which is what I was always required to do in my former church spaces.
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  So it looked more like me going to maybe an Episcopalian church, which...
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  Now, we would never do that.
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  Where I grew up, like, in my circle.
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  We didn't do that.
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  Because the belief system is so radically different.
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  Really?
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  Yeah.
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  Before we continue, make sure that you join our community by clicking the link below.
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  I really cannot wait for you to help me shape where this podcast goes.
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  Yes.
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  See for me, I'm not religious, you might have guessed, right?
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  So for me, not that it's all the same, but I didn't think that there would be- No, it's not all the same.
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  It's far from all the same.
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  But I didn't think, I didn't know that there's like stark differences between- between- Expressions.
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  Yeah.
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  So when you said that you left behind the things that were harmful, what does that mean?
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  Harmful theology, you know, I think I'm part of the wave of folks, the millennials that are deconstructing.
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  We call it we're deconstructing our theology.
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  We are the ex-evangelicals.
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  Those are the terms that they fly around now.
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  Okay.
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  So I'm part of that.
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  Where we're now seeing the scandals from our former like ministries that were held on a pedestal.
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  Right.
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  In our formative years.
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  And we're seeing like the wool being removed.
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  And for me, I have an astrological perspective on that now.
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  But, you know, now it's it's it's like.
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  the confirmation of like these things that were problematic.
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  So when I say harmful theology, it's the certainty of like, it has to look this way.
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  These are the rules.
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  And if you don't conform to these rules, it's eternal damnation.
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  Okay.
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  So to me that, that, you know, so like, so the, my first issue was like questioning this concept of hell.
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  in high school and struggling with that because I was like, there's so many people in the world.
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  And if God is loving, right, God so loved the world, why would the same loving God create a space like that to send his creation to eternal damnation?
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  Like that's a struggle for me.
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  And as a parent, aren't these your babies?
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  You created them.
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  How could you just like, and so excommunication was also like a thing.
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  People could just be like, oh, you're not one of us anymore.
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  Like, because they could,
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  you know have biblical grounds for cutting off like and be like well nope you're not one of us because of like religious differences did you ever get an explanation or to rationalize that because that seems like a really fair question to me it is no i never did it was god is sovereign right that was the explanation right
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  And so that's what I mean.
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  So it became this thing where I'd start putting away my doubts in the box, in the Pandora's box.
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  It's funny.
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  I was talking to my sister probably only a week ago.
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  And I was like, bring back religion from the perspective.
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  And there is a reasoning behind it.
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  For me, religion really serves people.
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  A lot of people find their morality through religion.
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  A lot of people understand right and wrong from the context of their religious beliefs.
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  And I think when I look at the world currently, it feels that people have lost the guidance of religion and gained.
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  the guidance, if you like, of materialistic capitalism.
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  Yes.
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  And so, whereas back in the day, people were respected for going to church, being a church family, holding the family together, the physical family unit, even entrepreneurship, for example, people will have these memes that,
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  If you work a lifetime for somebody else, imagine what you could be doing for yourself.
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  And I always say to people, you know, back in the day, you had a man, he worked at Ford.
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  He'd have a wife who probably didn't work.
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  Then they'd have two kids.
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  And we would respect him for working at Ford for 45 years.
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  Right.
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  And we would say that that was a gentleman who took care of his family.
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  And that was putting him in a particular social status of respect.
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  that same person in 2026 would be seen as wasting his life working for a corporation.
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  And I do think that there is a connection between the family unit and religion that we're not seeing as much.
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  And I think whilst personally, I don't feel like I've needed religion to give me those principles, I can respect and understand.
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  how others really took you know whether it's the 10 commandments whatever they took to guide their lives and i'm like i think we need to bring religion back honestly because i just think the world that i'm looking at where people aren't genuine they're not doing what they're saying yes they're just out for their own money yes they don't care about you know doing the right thing and being fair i could go on and on the things that i see wrong and
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  And I guess it's interesting because you have a perspective that you were raised in religion and it sounds like you found a nice, comfortable medium where you haven't disregarded all of the lessons and the characteristics that religion gave you.
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  But at the same time, you're open.
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  to discourse, right?
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  Like you're open to challenging certain ideas.
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  And I just think that in a strange way, I don't think I'd be a single mother if there was some religion back in the world.
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  I don't think I would be struggling to really know if I can trust people if there was religion.
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  I see so many benefits that have been lost, it feels like.
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  And I just wondered from your journey, what are your thoughts on the way religion on a macro, not on a personal level?
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  I think what we are losing, right?
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  I think, yes, capitalism has invaded.
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  And I think what it is is that we've lost this sense of the importance of community and the importance of belonging.
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  And it's not that we have to have all these sets of beliefs.
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  It really, for you to be a part of my community, it really is, you're my neighbor.
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  like on just a simple level.
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  Like you're somebody that I see every day when you walk through that gate or you go to that shop or you are in that coffee shop or you're in the laundry.
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  Like you are somebody that is in my immediate community.
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  So I should know you.
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  There are things about you that I should know.
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  We don't need to worship the same God.
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  We really don't.
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  But I think it's the values, right, that I think
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  has been an issue.
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  And I mean, as somebody that grew up in this space, it's like the way that, you know, I experienced it was you have to be in our, our crowd.
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  Like this is how we do things.
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  Right.
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  And so if you are outside of that, you can't sit with us.
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  That's it.
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  So for me, that's the issue at hand.
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  That's my struggle.
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  And so having these conversations with some of my friends who maybe I used to worship with, and we've all, not all of us, but our beliefs have evolved considerably from when we first met.
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  And I remember this conversation I had with one of my really good friends from college, and he said to me, yeah, I don't think Jesus is the way.
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  I think he's a way.
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  And that's an important distinction.
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  And I was like, you know, and he had to say it in a low voice.
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  And I had to be like, yeah, you know, I had to lean in.
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  Cause that's taboo where we grew up and how we grew up.
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  How are you raising your daughter from a belief spiritual perspective?
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  The thing that I struggled with, with, I think, the way Christianity was introduced to us, you know, West Africa and American Christianity for the most part, there was this having to push away your African spirituality, like the spirituality that comes from your culture.
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  Okay.
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  And having to accept a more Abrahamic spirituality and be like, these are your ancestors.
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  And it's like,
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  I'm struggling.
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  So I mean, there were lots of struggles.
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  There's lots of struggles.
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  So being able to reject that and embrace my own actual ancestors and be comfortable with a spirituality that is reverent about the environment that we live in,
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  nature, you know, the four elements, being just that reverence for it.
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  She grew up as we were even in Virginia, like we'd go for walks and she'd just see me stop and hug a tree.
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  Because I, this is the tree that moved mommy.
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  And so mommy's going to hug this tree.
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  And she grew up with that.
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  It's like, oh, that's normal.
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  Mommy's hugging a tree again.
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  And then she would join me sometimes.
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  And then sometimes she wouldn't.
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  And then she would go to the Episcopalian church with me, and that's also a very different expression.
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  And then we also have these conversations about the ancestors who are looking out for us, that are with us.
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  And when people pass away, I also encourage her own spirituality and her own inner knowing,
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  And oddly enough, anytime we've lost a family member or a family member has transitioned in the last year or so, I've found out first from my child before I get the news.
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  What do you mean?
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  Like she'll just casually be like, Grandpa is, I think my grandpa died.
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  Like that happened.
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  And I was like, your grandpa died.
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  I mean, I was thinking about my grandpa.
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  And I was like, no, that's not her grandpa.
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  I was like, your grandpa's not.
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  You know, like my head was like, and then I was like, okay, let me call.
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  So I called my aunt and she was like, yeah, I was gonna call you so and so.
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  Do you know he was in the market and he passed and he fell, he just, and he passed away.
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  And I was like, how'd you know?
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  I said, my daughter told me.
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  Wow.
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  And that happened like four times last year.
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  What do we think is happening there?
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  Children have their own, right?
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  They come into the world with their own.
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  And I think that over time we kind of discipline them out of it.
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  We, with, with, we, the structure and this and that.
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  And, and I think that when we work your kids, you're, you're more open, but that becomes taken out of you.
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  And we, our kids, they all have their own gifts.
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  And so I like to say my, my child is tapped in.
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  And even before my grandmother passed away, she was also like, are we going to go to the funeral?
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  And I was like, she's not going anywhere yet.
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  She's like, mm.
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  And then, okay.
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  And then sure enough, you know, when that happened.
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  So like I said, it happened about four times in the past year.
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  Where was your grandma at the time?
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  California.
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  She was living in California.
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  Yeah, so she stayed in California.
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  Okay, and being here and having to manage that, because when I asked you about, you know, who believed you that you were coming home, you not only said that it was your grandmother, but you said it in a way that I feel like you and her were deeply, deeply connected.
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  So I just wondered, from the perspective of being physically so far away, do you think that that helped or hindered your grieving?
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  you
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  My grandma always prepared us for her like transition and she's been preparing us for like 20 years.
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  Really?
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  Yeah.
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  What does prepare you look like?
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  Just talk about death.
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  Okay.
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  Like, you know, when I go, when I go.
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  And were you comfortable with that?
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  Some people don't like, okay.
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  I wasn't comfortable with that.
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  You were like, could you stop?
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  But it didn't matter.
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  Right.
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  She's your elder.
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  You're going to, you're going to listen.
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  Um, so we would, I was not comfortable with that, but it was a conversation.
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  And she would talk about it like she was talking about, you know, the food in front of her.
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  Like it was just this, it was part of life.
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  And you have to understand that at some point, this person that you love, that you're looking at right now, is not going to be with you in the same way.
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  The relationship is going to evolve.
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  And so that was always a conversation whether I liked it or not.
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  I'd be like, oh, you're not going anywhere.
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  You're going to be around forever.
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  And you know, this is when she was in her 70s.
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  And I'm saying that, like, girl.
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  98 is a good innings.
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  Isn't it?
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  So I, you know, and she was she used to get sick a lot.
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  And so the fact that she even lived that long, really, she exceeded all of our expectations.
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  So I always say she she prepared.
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  she prepared me because we were very close
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  And also, you know, we were losing her, like, just mentally, the years leading up.
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  So the conversations were different and she didn't have, you know, her faculties in the same way to be able to hold that phone conversation like we used to.
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  Because she was one of those people that always supported my sense of adventure.
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  She just saw me.
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  She just she was just one of, like, my biggest, like, supporters.
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  And, um.
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  And she was the nurturing parent I had in my life because, you know, my mom was busy.
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  My dad was away and siblings are living their own lives.
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  And grandma was like that stable presence.
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  So even when I, no matter where I was in the world or what I was up to next, she had her handy dandy phone book that she'd handwritten.
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  Everybody's number is.
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  And, you know, I knew at some point in the week she's going to call me to do the check in and ask what's going on and then.
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  take the prayer request and she's gonna intercede for me and then the heavenlies and um god is gonna protect me so um so i always felt that with her and no matter what she non-judgmental at all like she just was like oh you want to do that yeah wow hey yeah like so so she would go through her own phase of like ah that sounds intense and that sounds scary but i support you
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  Amazing.
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  And she could just hold that.
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  And yeah, so she was amazing.
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  How do you manage not receiving those check ins?
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  Well, it started, I mean, it had been a couple of years of not receiving the check-in.
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  So, cause you know, it's a gradual loss.
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  Right.
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  Um, and so that's something I was mourning.
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  So that, so the mourning process starts way before, right.
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  Way before that you actually lose the person.
• 20:27
  That's really interesting.
• 20:29
  And in terms of your relationship with your daughter, would you say that that was mirrored more off of the relationship with your grandmother?
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  Yes.
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  Okay.
• 20:38
  Yes, because it was more open.
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  I could go talk to my grandmother about just the struggles I was dealing with.
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  I could ask her the spiritual questions, the answers that I wasn't getting in different ways.
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  She did her best.
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  to try.
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  And she also encouraged the spirituality piece that and she found a way of kind of walking that line of like the traditional Christianity that she was handed with the, you know, her culture and honoring that.
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  So she also kind of modeled that for me.
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  She didn't cast aside the way that you're asked to.
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  So I appreciate her own little box.
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  Yeah, she had her own.
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  I think that's what it was.
• 21:26
  Yeah.
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  So you come to Cape Town.
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  You see that life, what life is like for the two weeks.
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  You leave now certain that your astrologer was correct.
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  I leave.
• 21:40
  confirming like really key things, how I felt, how I was received, because that matters.
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  That really mattered to me more than anything.
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  And how my daughter was received and feeling like this is possible, but I had to sit with it.
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  So it wasn't an immediate decision.
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  How long before that two-week trip and moving?
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  Seven months.
• 22:03
  That's not that long.
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  It's not.
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  That's all.
• 22:06
  Okay, I thought you were going to say it was a bit longer.
• 22:08
  No.
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  So seven months.
• 22:09
  About seven months.
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  You're on the plane.
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  Yeah.
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  You've packed up your house.
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  But again, astrology has a lot to do with that too.
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  In what way?
• 22:17
  Yeah.
• 22:18
  Yeah.
• 22:19
  Woo.
• 22:20
  Um...
• 22:21
  It's seven months because...
• 22:23
  So there's also... You can also find out, like, times when you should be able to... What's the best time to travel and relocate.
• 22:32
  So do you continue to guide your life with astrology?
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  Some key things, yes.
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  Really?
• 22:37
  Yes, not everything, but key things.
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  But if you're about to make a big decision, you have a check-in.
• 22:42
  Yes.
• 22:43
  So, well, not with... Well, this big one, yes.
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  The check-in with the person.
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  And then there are things that I can do on my own.
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  Okay.
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  Because now, you know...
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  I'm an intermediate.
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  I'm not a teacher, but I'm an intermediate.
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  I've moved from beginner to intermediate.
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  So, yes.
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  So you can find out when is a good time to move.
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  And so there was a window in my life.
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  And what constitutes a good time to move?
• 23:09
  It's still the same thing.
• 23:11
  They use your birth chart and they play around with it with dates around the time that you're thinking of, like the time of year you're thinking of.
• 23:21
  And then they'll say, okay, for this year, this is what's going on in the planets and this is how it impacts you.
• 23:29
  And so there was literally two months in the beginning of the year, like January, February of 2023.
• 23:36
  She was like, those months are closed.
• 23:38
  Okay, don't go.
• 23:40
  As in because the move isn't going to be pleasant?
• 23:44
  No.
• 23:45
  Closed means like that's not even a window for you.
• 23:48
  Just don't even consider it.
• 23:49
  It's not even going to open.
• 23:51
  Even if you tried.
• 23:52
  You're not going.
• 23:53
  It's not happening.
• 23:53
  Okay.
• 23:54
  That's really what it was.
• 23:55
  Yes.
• 23:55
  Got it.
• 23:55
  So then there's a window.
• 23:56
  Right.
• 23:57
  And so then there was a window for me between March and April of 2020.
• 24:01
  It's a very short window.
• 24:03
  I know.
• 24:04
  I know.
• 24:05
  So it's so interesting how I came into the awareness of, like, it's time to go.
• 24:10
  Right.
• 24:11
  And basically, and I did the initial relocation request.
• 24:16
  And she said, yeah, a lot of people come to me and they may ask that they want to move.
• 24:22
  But I don't always see it in their chart that they're going to move.
• 24:26
  I see it in your chart that you are going to move.
• 24:30
  So it also just confirmed this inner knowing that I've been walking with for years.
• 24:36
  This is exactly why I don't really, like, they're not telling me something earth shattering, but you're guiding me in a way that maybe for things that I don't know of myself.
• 24:46
  So she's like, I do see it in your chart, but here's your window.
• 24:50
  Okay.
• 24:50
  And this is your window.
• 24:52
  And if you don't move within that time, it will close.
• 24:56
  Okay.
• 24:56
  Okay.
• 24:57
  And I did, there were a few friends at that time that I told that to, cause again, everybody didn't know this.
• 25:03
  This is like the first time that I like,
• 25:06
  they will know.
• 25:07
  Whoa, really went down that path.
• 25:10
  But it's okay, no, because you're hair babes.
• 25:11
  Yeah, like three years later, so come at me.
• 25:15
  Right.
• 25:16
  But yeah, so basically, there was a couple, they were just really good friends of ours, and I told them, so they knew all of this stuff.
• 25:27
  And I remember a year or so in, when people started like,
• 25:34
  You know, when there was a shift in their perception of my move, it went from like this crazy thing that I did to like, oh, she's a prophet.
• 25:43
  She's so insightful.
• 25:44
  Oh, I wish.
• 25:45
  I wish.
• 25:46
  Oh, how does she know?
• 25:47
  Like it went from that like weird to like, wow.
• 25:53
  I said, oh, they changed.
• 25:54
  And so one of my friends who I had told that to, she recalled and she brought it up.
• 25:59
  She's like, I remember that your astrologer said your window would close and yeah, it makes sense now.
• 26:05
  And I was like, yeah.
• 26:06
  So you get to Cape Town, you're feeling guided, which I imagine is a good position to be in, right?
• 26:13
  Regardless of whether they want to criticize, believe it or whatever, you felt guided.
• 26:20
  What are the culture shocks that we are experiencing when we just arrived?
• 26:23
  Because I don't care where anyone moves to and how much research, how much guidance.
• 26:28
  You know, we can ask all the questions, but sometimes or if not all the time, it's only until you really feet on the ground do you experience certain things.
• 26:38
  And I'm just wondering, I've been here before, but I can't visualize what that would be.
• 26:42
  Yeah.
• 26:42
  In terms of from a living perspective.
• 26:44
  Yeah.
• 26:46
  Yeah.
• 26:47
  For me, my initial struggle was this wasn't how I perceived my return to Africa.
• 26:53
  Okay.
• 26:54
  Right.
• 26:55
  This wasn't what Africa was going to look like.
• 26:58
  Because Cape Town looks very different from Freetown.
• 27:01
  It looks very different from Accra.
• 27:03
  Those, you know, places that I spent significant time.
• 27:07
  In what way?
• 27:08
  I've never been to Ghana.
• 27:09
  Yeah.
• 27:09
  Well, West Africa is predominantly black.
• 27:12
  Okay.
• 27:13
  So Cape Town...
• 27:14
  It is and it isn't.
• 27:17
  It's not.
• 27:19
  So that was, you know, it was more of a blend of, like, lived experiences that I'd had in the U.S., but then now on African soil.
• 27:27
  Right.
• 27:28
  So that's different.
• 27:30
  Someone said to me that they don't consider Cape Town Africa.
• 27:33
  Right.
• 27:34
  But I would push back a bit on that because—
• 27:38
  It's easy to think that initially.
• 27:41
  You're like, oh, this feels very European, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 27:44
  And I'm like, okay, that's the veneer.
• 27:46
  That's the initial.
• 27:47
  But sit a bit.
• 27:49
  Try to get something that you want done.
• 27:50
  Like, for real, you're going to follow up like you're in Africa.
• 27:54
  Like, it's not going to happen overnight like you're in Africa, especially for me, like, with tourism and stuff like that.
• 28:00
  Like, the level of follow-ups I have to do in Cape Town for...
• 28:03
  for something as opposed to maybe Johannesburg, which demographically is very different and that feels more like a cosmopolitan black mecca than Cape Town.
• 28:17
  So Johannesburg has like a New York pace.
• 28:19
  Someone else said that, yeah.
• 28:21
  That's the comparison, even though New York is fast.
• 28:25
  And it's only.
• 28:25
  It's only.
• 28:26
  But I get it.
• 28:27
  I get the comparison.
• 28:28
  Sure.
• 28:28
  Cape Town, on the other hand...
• 28:30
  It's more chill.
• 28:31
  It's chill.
• 28:32
  It's funny because today, when I was on the way here trying to find the nanny, and a guy let me use his phone.
• 28:39
  We locate her, and he's like, oh, I know exactly where she is.
• 28:42
  You can just follow my car.
• 28:44
  But he had just arrived at the gas station to buy something.
• 28:46
  So I said to him, you can just tell me, and I'll go find it.
• 28:49
  He said, no, no, no, just follow me, and it's easier.
• 28:52
  And I'm like, okay, cool.
• 28:53
  But the funny part was I called my dad.
• 28:55
  I said, yeah, Cape Town doesn't rush because I'm running late.
• 28:58
  They don't.
• 28:59
  I'm trying to find this lady.
• 29:00
  Yes.
• 29:01
  And he's just like, no, no, I'm just going to go in the store.
• 29:03
  So I'm on the phone to my dad.
• 29:04
  I'm just like, I'm just waiting basically for the guy to come out the store for me to follow him.
• 29:09
  And there was no sense of like, urgency.
• 29:11
  No, none.
• 29:12
  And he was lovely.
• 29:13
  And it just made me laugh because it definitely wasn't like fast paced city life.
• 29:18
  Although when you drive around certain places, it looks architecturally fast paced city life.
• 29:25
  It just, it's just not.
• 29:28
  Don't be fooled, yeah.
• 29:29
  Is that what you knew you needed?
• 29:32
  Yes.
• 29:32
  You knew that you needed a different, slower energy?
• 29:35
  I did.
• 29:36
  Okay.
• 29:36
  Because I was already going fast-paced city life.
• 29:39
  I was already living that, and I was exhausted.
• 29:42
  And in a place where the community is harder in those spaces in the states.
• 29:50
  It's really hard.
• 29:51
  I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but...
• 29:54
  Oh, to see your friends is a lot of work.
• 29:57
  Yeah.
• 29:57
  You can't just... Like the other day, I don't take it for granted that somebody can text me within the same week to make a plan.
• 30:04
  Right.
• 30:05
  I don't take that for granted.
• 30:07
  Still, three years in, I'm still like shocked that that happens here.
• 30:12
  I'm like... Yeah.
• 30:15
  Was it easy to make friends, to find your own community when you came, coming to a place that you didn't know people before?
• 30:22
  Yeah.
• 30:24
  Yes and no.
• 30:25
  Okay.
• 30:25
  Yes and no.
• 30:26
  One of the other things that I told you earlier about how the benefit of religion for me was like you can tap in.
• 30:33
  Yeah.
• 30:35
  So for me now, tapping in also looks like I'm a diehard Liverpool football club.
• 30:41
  Really?
• 30:42
  Yeah, girl.
• 30:43
  I'm about that life.
• 30:44
  Really?
• 30:45
  I am.
• 30:46
  How did that come about?
• 30:48
  I know.
• 30:48
  I know.
• 30:49
  Also, you don't have football energy.
• 30:53
  I know.
• 30:55
  Until you see my statuses in social media.
• 30:58
  Then you're like, oh, wait.
• 31:00
  I don't give it off until it's time.
• 31:03
  Until it's time.
• 31:04
  Or I'm like, you see me, like maybe, we had a game yesterday, a match, and I was wearing a kit.
• 31:11
  So unless you see me with the kit on.
• 31:13
  Okay.
• 31:14
  Yeah.
• 31:14
  Do you say football or do you say soccer?
• 31:17
  I have to say both.
• 31:19
  I have to say both because it depends on who I'm talking to.
• 31:21
  Okay.
• 31:22
  Yeah.
• 31:22
  So I use both.
• 31:23
  Okay.
• 31:23
  But football helped you connect?
• 31:25
  Yes.
• 31:26
  That's what I was going to say.
• 31:27
  So that was one of my factors.
• 31:28
  Even when I came to visit, I looked for it because I was part of like the Liverpool DC, Washington DC chapter.
• 31:34
  So that's the way that I would plug in to go watch matches with my fellow fans.
• 31:41
  And
• 31:42
  Cape Town also had a strong Liverpool presence.
• 31:46
  Really?
• 31:46
  So, yes, yes.
• 31:49
  And our tagline is, you'll never walk alone.
• 31:53
  YNWA, you just sign it up.
• 31:55
  People have tattoos with that on.
• 31:57
  People have the liver bird.
• 31:58
  People, we don't play.
• 32:00
  You guys go hard.
• 32:00
  We don't play about our club.
• 32:03
  And I've met people like that everywhere.
• 32:07
  So it's a shock I don't have any tattoos.
• 32:09
  I was like, what?
• 32:11
  So yeah, so that was one of the things was to come check out the Liverpool presence in Cape Town.
• 32:19
  And that was one of the places I visited.
• 32:20
  I came to watch a match.
• 32:22
  It was a big match that was happening.
• 32:24
  I've even done interviews with the local sports club multiple times.
• 32:30
  And it was, so that's, that was like one of like my immediate ways of plugging into community here.
• 32:36
  Do you feel that Marissa in Cape Town is a different version of her American Marissa?
• 32:43
  Yeah, there is a different expression of me here.
• 32:46
  In what way?
• 32:49
  I'm less stressed.
• 32:50
  Okay.
• 32:51
  So when I'm less stressed, it means that things that are like maybe have been lying dormant can come to the forefront for better or for worse.
• 33:01
  And I think moving.
• 33:04
  is a healing journey really too.
• 33:07
  It's not just like, oh, I need to live somewhere because I like, no, no, no.
• 33:12
  You're going to address things about yourself.
• 33:14
  You're going to look at your shadow because you have time.
• 33:18
  You're going to be on your own a lot.
• 33:22
  You need to enjoy your own company.
• 33:24
  You don't automatically have built-in friendships.
• 33:26
  Yeah.
• 33:26
  You don't automatically have family members.
• 33:29
  There's still a language barrier even in a country where English is one of the official languages.
• 33:35
  You're still not fluent in the culture.
• 33:38
  So being at peace with yourself and your schedule and your routines, all of that changes.
• 33:44
  Right.
• 33:45
  So who are you?
• 33:47
  Were you open to healing before though?
• 33:49
  Because it feels like it wouldn't have been that much of a struggle to know that there was going to be a process.
• 33:55
  It was going to be more.
• 33:56
  It was going to be more.
• 33:57
  It was going to be like, oh, you know, because I just thought I would, because yeah, I was on this healing journey for sure.
• 34:03
  But then.
• 34:05
  I felt like at some point in the U.S., I was like, okay, I've done all I can do here.
• 34:10
  Okay.
• 34:10
  I need a different wave now of this.
• 34:13
  Like, I need to go to another level.
• 34:15
  I've tapped out here.
• 34:19
  Like, I needed an environmental shift.
• 34:21
  There's something that's going to awaken once I am in another place.
• 34:25
  So I kind of was looking forward to that.
• 34:27
  Yeah.
• 34:28
  But how that shows up, it's like you got to slow down.
• 34:33
  There is no running around.
• 34:35
  I didn't have the car where I'm just going to just run somewhere and get away or a list of to-dos.
• 34:43
  I don't have the Amazon memberships and all of the things that capitalism tells you that you need.
• 34:49
  I had less to maintain.
• 34:52
  So then who are you?
• 34:55
  What parts of the quiet were uncomfortable?
• 34:58
  Yeah.
• 35:00
  Parts of the quiet.
• 35:01
  Because I think that we're in an age where people see moving as deeply adventurous, you know, exciting.
• 35:07
  I'm not saying it's not those things, but, you know, you spoke to the fact that you have to be open to this healing journey because you have time.
• 35:13
  Yes.
• 35:14
  And so I'm just wondering for you personally, what what was the discomfort that came out of having that extra time?
• 35:25
  I think just looking at the decisions that I made because of circumstance.
• 35:31
  You know, of maybe did I stay too long in that relationship?
• 35:36
  Did I stay too long in that workplace?
• 35:39
  I tend to think I'm pretty good about leaving a workplace when it stops.
• 35:42
  I feel like I'm pretty good at that because I've never worked anywhere longer than like three years.
• 35:47
  Okay.
• 35:48
  So I've always been one of those people.
• 35:50
  where my friends maybe have been a place years, you know, five plus seven plus 10 plus, I've never been one of those people.
• 35:58
  So I've just also been, I was like, okay, fine, maybe not that.
• 36:02
  But environmentally, you know, there have been things that I've questioned, of course, like, did I?
• 36:08
  And then having to sit with it because it's like, well, you don't have the distractions that you had in the old life.
• 36:17
  The system isn't go, go, go, go, go anymore.
• 36:20
  So now you got to sit and process.
• 36:23
  And then there's this element, the elements of the unhealed parts of you, like your inner child that's like, you know,
• 36:29
  Proud.
• 36:30
  I think my inner child is proud of me for, for being on this journey even before I got to Cape town, but definitely more proud on this end of it.
• 36:39
  Um, but still like those unmet needs that, you know, you get to address, um, and speak to in a way that I don't think I had the space.
• 36:49
  I didn't have the bandwidth.
• 36:50
  I just didn't have it.
• 36:52
  Um, I had to, I had to think about taking care of another life and providing, um,
• 36:57
  stability and calm in a way that was stressful, you know?
• 37:03
  So, yeah.
• 37:04
  How is motherhood here versus America?
• 37:10
  Different.
• 37:11
  Very different.
• 37:13
  I think here, because child care is more affordable, that makes a huge difference.
• 37:19
  In the U.S., I feel like motherhood is a very isolating experience.
• 37:25
  When you become a mom, you know, it just changes everything.
• 37:29
  Yes, you already changed.
• 37:30
  You're already transformed.
• 37:31
  You're a new person.
• 37:32
  There's a death of your old self, you know, and you're
• 37:41
  But yeah, there's that.
• 37:43
  But there's all this celebration and hype before the baby comes.
• 37:49
  And then after, it gets quiet.
• 37:54
  And it remains that way until you figure out a way to provide something new that's going to work for you.
• 38:03
  And I think that's challenging.
• 38:05
  It doesn't matter your status.
• 38:08
  I think it's very challenging to do that in a capitalism on steroids type of culture.
• 38:14
  Community takes a hit.
• 38:16
  You know when you said that you had ratings for things for Cape Town and you mentioned about love and relationships, have the ratings aligned with your lived experience?
• 38:29
  Yes and no.
• 38:30
  Okay.
• 38:30
  Right?
• 38:31
  But then I also have to also remember that my perspective has shifted.
• 38:36
  Because I'm not who I was three years ago.
• 38:40
  Right?
• 38:41
  Two years ago or whatever.
• 38:42
  And the evolution continues.
• 38:45
  So...
• 38:48
  There are things that definitely check out for sure.
• 38:50
  Like I feel more visible here.
• 38:52
  So even if I don't want attention, I'm going to get it.
• 38:57
  It's going to happen.
• 38:59
  Even if I don't say anything, I'm like, I'm not speaking.
• 39:01
  So you don't know where it's going to happen.
• 39:03
  And that was something the astrology had pointed to.
• 39:05
  You're going to be more visible.
• 39:06
  You can't just like hide in that location, like the way you were dodging and weaving.
• 39:12
  And I was like, okay, sure.
• 39:16
  And also for my child, I've definitely seen that in terms of just how she comes into her own here, her confidence and the support and how people see her for who she is and champion her.
• 39:31
  Those things are true, like my core things that I definitely want.
• 39:35
  But I also think that my initial concern of like, what does it mean to be in Africa long term?
• 39:42
  Like that's still...
• 39:44
  something that I'm trying to figure out.
• 39:46
  So that is something, and I think how I'm reconciling that now is trying to make sure that I'm, you know, taking more visits to West Africa, and making sure that, you know, she will know where mommy is from.
• 40:00
  And so 2026 is the year that that begins to be more of a reality for us.
• 40:06
  So do you think you'll eventually move from Cape Town to another African country?
• 40:10
  I could see that.
• 40:11
  Okay.
• 40:11
  I could definitely see that.
• 40:13
  You know, I don't I don't know what, you know, I haven't really like tapped in yet.
• 40:18
  We haven't checked the chart yet.
• 40:19
  I haven't checked the chart yet.
• 40:22
  But in a knowing wise, yes, because that's really what I think any healthy check of a chart really does is that it's really confirming what you know to be true.
• 40:34
  It's just certain details.
• 40:35
  It just kind of fine tunes the details.
• 40:37
  And then you do the rest.
• 40:39
  It's your life.
• 40:40
  Yeah.
• 40:41
  How do you think that your daughter is experiencing?
• 40:44
  Obviously, you can't speak for her.
• 40:46
  But from observing her, how do you think she's currently experiencing life in South Africa?
• 40:54
  Hmm.
• 40:58
  She got here when she was four and now she's seven and a half.
• 41:04
  And yeah, these are formative years, you know, some it's also interesting because she's the same age that my younger sister was when.
• 41:13
  She moved from Sierra Leone to the US, so I'm also having that reference point.
• 41:17
  Yeah.
• 41:19
  Um, so I see that, you know, she was always this, like, lively, confident child.
• 41:24
  So that has only continued, like, it's affirmed her in her identity.
• 41:29
  That was something I was concerned about if we remained in the U.S., that once she started the mainstream schooling and whatnot, it would dim her.
• 41:39
  Yes.
• 41:40
  So I was very worried about that.
• 41:41
  But because I think I left out a window where she was still that lively, bubbly child that I feel like she gets to be more of who she's meant to be at this time in her life.
• 41:54
  She's free.
• 41:56
  And there, I don't have certain anxieties that I would have had in the US.
• 42:02
  For example?
• 42:03
  Like just about her identity.
• 42:05
  Okay.
• 42:06
  She's like really rich chocolate child.
• 42:09
  And it's beautiful.
• 42:10
  And she gets complimented when she's a baby, but it's like, as you get older, there are expectations in that environment.
• 42:17
  You are expected to act older than you are.
• 42:22
  And so I understood that because that was something that I received.
• 42:26
  And I didn't want, I wanted her to enjoy her childhood.
• 42:29
  And here I see that she gets to be a child.
• 42:32
  And that's the win.
• 42:34
  She gets to enjoy childhood.
• 42:36
  Do we know what's going on with the adultification of black children?
• 42:40
  Do we know why this is happening?
• 42:41
  I've been trying to wrap my head around it,
• 42:44
  But that's just how it is.
• 42:45
  Okay.
• 42:45
  That's just how it is.
• 42:46
  Especially, and I've seen it as a teacher watching other children, like, and trying to steward their growing up experiences and being that safe person for them.
• 42:56
  Yeah.
• 42:57
  That I didn't have in the classroom, you know.
• 43:01
  So, yeah, I don't know.
• 43:02
  But that's how it is.
• 43:03
  Yeah.
• 43:04
  Yeah.
• 43:06
  In terms of South Africa and getting here and teething pains and allowing people to understand what it really means to move abroad, and it might not be specific to this location, but I think I mentioned to you that I take it for granted.
• 43:21
  the ease that you may make the decision or the ease with which you actually move.
• 43:27
  And so I'd love your perspective on what does moving actually look and feel like for someone who doesn't necessarily know, or for someone who is perhaps more nervous than I am allowing myself to understand.
• 43:44
  Yeah, it's leaving your comfort zone.
• 43:47
  That's a big deal for people, a lot of people.
• 43:50
  A lot of people like the stability and the security that comes with knowing their immediate environment.
• 44:00
  And when you decide that you are going to move, that's a huge decision.
• 44:04
  It's disruptive.
• 44:06
  You are disrupting your world.
• 44:09
  and the world of somebody else if you're moving with other people.
• 44:13
  So it's a huge decision.
• 44:14
  I didn't take it lightly.
• 44:17
  I know it may sometimes come off like, oh, you just move to Cape Town, especially when I talk to Capetonians, because a lot of Capetonians have only lived in Cape Town.
• 44:26
  This is their home.
• 44:28
  So that's the interesting thing about this city.
• 44:30
  It's like,
• 44:31
  It's international in a sense, and it's highly local in another sense, right?
• 44:36
  So, and you're just, you're navigating the world within a world.
• 44:42
  So, yeah, so they struggle with understanding.
• 44:45
  Like, you just, what is your family?
• 44:48
  You just, you just, like, that sucks.
• 44:50
  You know, it's, it's hectic.
• 44:52
  Yeah.
• 44:53
  I was like, okay.
• 44:55
  You know, so it, I understand from listening to other people's perspective on it.
• 45:00
  I'm like, I get it.
• 45:02
  But, you know, I've been traveling since I was a baby.
• 45:04
  So, um, even, you know, throughout schooling, like my older sister studied abroad in France and we went to go visit her in France.
• 45:14
  You know, that's like, and I came back and I had my French beret and boa phase where I would just be walking around doing the French kisses.
• 45:22
  Like, oh, my God, Marissa's back from France.
• 45:25
  And she's letting us know.
• 45:27
  So, you know, and so that so that's what they don't, I think, understand is that this is something that has been embedded in me from from childhood.
• 45:37
  And I just get to experience it, take it to another level as an adult and as a mom now.
• 45:43
  When you were settling, was there anything that happened that made you question whether it was time to leave?
• 45:48
  Yeah.
• 45:52
  I don't know if I questioned whether it was time to leave, but because I knew there was no going back for me.
• 45:59
  Like this was the fulfillment of a long-term desire.
• 46:05
  So I was grateful, but yeah, to consider like maybe this is not the right location.
• 46:10
  Yeah, sure, for sure.
• 46:14
  We had challenges with housing.
• 46:16
  We were Airbnb-ing for a while.
• 46:19
  And that took a lot longer than I anticipated.
• 46:24
  As in just trying to find the right place?
• 46:26
  Trying to find, yes, a place that we would get.
• 46:30
  Because Cape Town housing market is, yeah.
• 46:35
  Yeah.
• 46:35
  It's, yeah.
• 46:37
  It's a challenge.
• 46:39
  So I experienced that and that made me go, oh.
• 46:44
  Are you being a good mother?
• 46:45
  You're living out of a suitcase every couple of weeks.
• 46:48
  You're packing up and you're moving to a different place and you're staying there.
• 46:51
  You don't know how long you're going to stay there.
• 46:53
  You're going to do it again.
• 46:54
  And so those questions like you're supposed to be giving stability.
• 46:58
  This is how is this stable?
• 47:01
  Yeah, that one really rocked me because I didn't know.
• 47:06
  I didn't know where the housing was gonna come.
• 47:08
  And then it got to the point where, of course I reached back out to this show.
• 47:13
  I'm like, maybe you're wrong.
• 47:15
  Maybe you're wrong.
• 47:16
  And also she told you the window to come.
• 47:18
  Maybe the window wasn't right.
• 47:21
  So yes, the housing didn't really,
• 47:24
  That really messed me up for a bit.
• 47:25
  And but it's funny because even the advice that she ended up giving was what ended up happening was me leaving the city center and looking more at the suburbs.
• 47:36
  OK. And that's where how we ended up finding a place.
• 47:39
  But what ended up happening was.
• 47:40
  Yeah, the end of that first year, I was like, we'd gone to Johannesburg for the holidays.
• 47:49
  Because I was like, this Airbnb game is ridiculous during dirty December.
• 47:55
  You know?
• 47:56
  Que December.
• 47:57
  We got to get out of here.
• 47:59
  So we came back, and I was staying in an Airbnb, and I said, this is the last Airbnb I'm staying in.
• 48:08
  Okay, okay.
• 48:11
  I'm going to find a place.
• 48:14
  And then I think the next day I got a text message from someone that I met at a coffee shop that the last space that I'd lived in for like two months.
• 48:27
  And she's like, hey, are you still looking for a place?
• 48:32
  You already know how this goes.
• 48:34
  You already know how it's going to go.
• 48:36
  So just that text message led to a meeting.
• 48:39
  And then within 24 hours or so, I checked out our current place.
• 48:43
  And that's where we've been.
• 48:45
  Amazing.
• 48:46
  So you were doing that for a year?
• 48:48
  Roughly.
• 48:49
  Yeah, like eight months.
• 48:50
  That's a long time.
• 48:51
  It's a long time.
• 48:53
  So that really shook me.
• 48:54
  Yeah.
• 48:55
  But especially towards the end where I was like,
• 48:59
  Did you make them like this is crazy.
• 49:00
  This is where like the second guessing myself came for sure.
• 49:05
  But I also realized that with a child, as long as I am calm and stable, like,
• 49:12
  because she's looking at me for her stability.
• 49:14
  So as long as I'm good, everywhere we were, I just made it feel like home.
• 49:20
  Yes.
• 49:21
  You know, I had the same helper.
• 49:23
  I kept the same helper that we met from the very first guest house we stayed in till we moved into our place.
• 49:30
  So she had that comfort of stability.
• 49:32
  And then she went to the same creche that we went to when I came to visit seven months prior to moving.
• 49:40
  That was the same crush I enrolled in.
• 49:41
  I think, in fact, that was probably to the detriment in the end because I was trying so hard to stay local.
• 49:49
  Yes, that that was also impacting my search.
• 49:53
  Right.
• 49:53
  And once I was willing to let go of that and what living in Cape Town is supposed to look like, then a place appeared.
• 50:02
  A lot of people, when I say that I'm traveling by myself with my children, they're just like, I don't know what they're envisioning, but for them it's just, it's not a thing, right?
• 50:11
  Travel, I think people get quite nervous, just general travel with children, let alone like around the world, multiple stops kind of travel.
• 50:20
  Yeah.
• 50:21
  And I just wonder- Yeah, girl, that's next level.
• 50:23
  That's levels.
• 50:25
  And do you, was that something you were always comfortable with or have you found your stride?
• 50:32
  with with with traveling literally taking because it's one thing to move here by yourself right without those responsibilities but you said earlier that you know traveling with someone that you're responsible for you just mentioned about keeping your energy which i personally believe is is probably the hardest thing about parenting
• 50:49
  is just keeping our energy in check.
• 50:51
  And that's irrespective of moving.
• 50:53
  I just mean in general, in life.
• 50:55
  And so I'm just wondering, were you always in a position where you felt comfortable traveling and the idea that you were going to move halfway across the world with your child?
• 51:06
  Or have you had to ease into a new rhythm?
• 51:09
  Yeah.
• 51:09
  Wow.
• 51:10
  Yeah.
• 51:10
  I think the moving with my child thing, that was always going to be part of the DNA.
• 51:16
  Like that was going to be the fabric.
• 51:19
  If I had the door, I didn't know when it was going to happen, obviously.
• 51:23
  But...
• 51:25
  the when appeared and it was like, okay, we're moving.
• 51:29
  This is what's happening.
• 51:31
  It's coming because it's time for us to explore this.
• 51:35
  So yeah, it was daunting, not gonna lie.
• 51:40
  And you know, when they're young, you need stuff.
• 51:43
  You gotta pack extra stuff.
• 51:45
  seats, the this, the that.
• 51:46
  Yeah, when we started this world tour, so just over a year ago, I had a double seat push chair.
• 51:51
  There you go.
• 51:52
  I had the portable potty.
• 51:54
  I don't know if you guys have that.
• 51:56
  So I had a portable potty.
• 51:57
  I had car seats, right?
• 51:59
  Like my first trip out of the UK
• 52:02
  Actually to South Africa, I have pictures.
• 52:05
  There's like multiple suitcases, but all of these other things I'm pushing whilst trying to push the push chair and the trolley by myself.
• 52:12
  And the point is I'm laughing because I ditched the push chair now.
• 52:16
  We don't need the push chair anymore.
• 52:17
  The potty don't need that.
• 52:19
  So you're right.
• 52:19
  You start to like shed things as you kind of go on your journey.
• 52:23
  But that initial time, I mean, I used to travel with their cots.
• 52:29
  so one suitcase was just for cuts.
• 52:31
  And remember there's twins, babes.
• 52:32
  So one suitcase was just cuts because again, you would come to, to some Airbnbs or hotels.
• 52:38
  They didn't have it.
• 52:39
  They didn't just didn't have the facilities.
• 52:40
  So you're trying to like plan for worst case scenario.
• 52:44
  Thankfully the cuts are gone.
• 52:45
  That was like the,
• 52:46
  the first thing and you do start to feel like as we're having this conversation you do start to feel a bit more hopeful that the travel is going to be a bit smoother you know dropping the car seats was a big one that's a big one it was yeah there was a lot of stuff a lot of stuff so i feel you i feel you on that and i had a super energetic running child so uh those toddler years like i
• 53:12
  were rough.
• 53:13
  I was one of those parents that had to do the string.
• 53:17
  Yes.
• 53:17
  Yeah.
• 53:18
  Because there's no way.
• 53:19
  We're not losing her.
• 53:20
  There's no way.
• 53:21
  Because and still, like every year, I would have some sort of meltdown because I lost her in a crowd or something.
• 53:27
  So it happened every year.
• 53:30
  Even last year, it happened in Cape Town.
• 53:34
  Thank you.
• 53:36
  It happened.
• 53:37
  So yeah, so the toddler years were rough.
• 53:41
  Because, yeah, you need to plan, but it does get better.
• 53:45
  It does get smoother.
• 53:47
  You do have less things.
• 53:49
  And people help out.
• 53:51
  At least that's what I experienced, especially the first trip to Cape Town.
• 53:57
  I'm connected with families or an individual who didn't have a child.
• 54:01
  The way she just,
• 54:02
  grabbed my kid and was playing with her and just gave me the like the breaks that I needed in between flights I mean it was huge and it was those moments that made me think okay you're you're making the right move for you for you and your child this next step you don't know what's on the other side of this decision but it's the right decision for you now yeah at this time so I
• 54:29
  a Michael Jackson video.
• 54:31
  I don't know what song it is, but it's, it's the one that like, it's lodged in my head.
• 54:35
  He's in a dark alleyway.
• 54:37
  And, and every time he walks, like there's a square light that pops up.
• 54:42
  It moves.
• 54:43
  Yeah.
• 54:43
  You know, the one and it, it only moves when he walks out of space.
• 54:47
  So before he's walked onto that space, there's no light.
• 54:51
  And so I just had to be like, I got to take the step in front of me and what I'm supposed to do, the guidance that I'm supposed to get, I will know.
• 55:00
  And that has been one of those grounding mantras for myself where I've been like, that's my visual.
• 55:07
  And then that's the thought that I come back to.
• 55:11
  What are the best things and worst things about living in Cape Town?
• 55:17
  I think the best thing has just been how warm and welcoming people have made me feel.
• 55:25
  Because it was just a desire that I really had for a while, especially after becoming a mom, I felt like my sense of community drastically changed because I didn't have the bandwidth to hang out like that and pretend that I didn't have a child or that I had the accommodations
• 55:42
  You know, I couldn't afford the level of childcare to be like, okay, now I'm going to hang out with friends.
• 55:47
  I need childcare to go to my job.
• 55:49
  Right.
• 55:49
  That's, that's coming out already.
• 55:52
  So to go kick it, like, how are we doing that?
• 55:57
  So it was just like, you know, once in a while, but that was not enough.
• 56:01
  I needed more than that.
• 56:05
  So yeah, coming to Cape Town just made me feel like I could
• 56:07
  be myself like I could like being a mother wasn't going to be to my detriment it was a strength and it was just it was a blessing and I could feel that and also I am this whole person and have these other interests I can lean into my my love of Liverpool Football Club unabashedly I can go back to matches because I wasn't able to do that the last match I went to in the States was like
• 56:35
  Champions League final, you know, Barcelona.
• 56:38
  I'm gonna need to see you decked out because I still am trying to reconcile this image.
• 56:44
  I know, it's so deceptive.
• 56:46
  I know.
• 56:48
  Yeah.
• 56:49
  2019 when my child was a baby.
• 56:51
  You know, that was the last time I went to like a pub to go watch a match.
• 56:57
  And so then there were years where I couldn't do that.
• 56:59
  And then to come to Cape Town and I'm like,
• 57:02
  Oh, somebody just text me.
• 57:03
  We got a big match next weekend.
• 57:05
  And I'm going to go.
• 57:07
  So I don't take that for granted.
• 57:09
  And that happens because I live in Cape Town.
• 57:12
  So that's like the best thing.
• 57:13
  And of course, I have other ways that community has just fortified me and made me feel like I am part of the collective, even though I'm not from here.
• 57:26
  And I don't know these people originally.
• 57:28
  And then on the flip side...
• 57:31
  That's the hard thing is that, well, what does that mean?
• 57:33
  You don't know these people, you know, nobody knows you long term.
• 57:37
  Like you're, these are new, relatively new relationships and that sense of starting over.
• 57:44
  And while that can have its exciting, exciting aspects.
• 57:48
  it's challenging to feel like, man, I had all this currency, like relational currency, right?
• 57:54
  That I had to like walk away from.
• 57:58
  And you know, your OGs, your ride or dies, they're with you.
• 58:02
  And I, and I love my voice note champions, the people that are doing it with me.
• 58:06
  And I love you guys.
• 58:08
  Like it means the world to get those voice notes for people that I've known for like 20 plus years.
• 58:15
  they're irreplaceable.
• 58:18
  So there's that, where it's like, you know, nobody has this long term, so you're going to be subject to the judgment of like, well, this is what
• 58:26
  This is who you are right now.
• 58:27
  Yeah.
• 58:28
  They're lacking some context.
• 58:30
  Yes.
• 58:30
  They're lacking the background story.
• 58:32
  Yes.
• 58:33
  And you're not going to be able to have this type of conversation with everybody that you meet.
• 58:38
  And so I just have to accept that.
• 58:41
  And while still, you know, just finding home within myself before the place becomes...
• 58:51
  it's really about that just because it's the home this concept of home has always been elusive for me since nine right I've struggled with that um but I think being here and now this long it's made me realize no like if I feel at home in a place it's not so much it's it's it's so much more about like who I get to be and how I get to show up in the environment um so that that's been huge um
• 59:21
  So, yeah, so the hard part has been like, oh, people don't really know you long term.
• 59:26
  That's hard because I'm like, oh, OK. Do I always have to, you know, explain, give context?
• 59:34
  And so that could be, you know, exhausting.
• 59:36
  And so I cherish the people that where we've moved out of that.
• 59:41
  So I do have a few friendships where now we're no longer in that space.
• 59:45
  Sure.
• 59:46
  And that's been just a breath of fresh air.
• 59:50
  Would you say that's been the biggest sacrifice from the relationships?
• 59:56
  Like what was the cost?
• 59:57
  You know, the cost.
• 59:58
  We talk about what we gained from moving abroad.
• 1:00:02
  What's the cost?
• 1:00:05
  That's a lot.
• 1:00:07
  Yeah, you lose that sense of familiarity.
• 1:00:10
  That's costly because you don't know things.
• 1:00:12
  You have to ask basic questions again.
• 1:00:15
  I mean, I don't even like going to a new supermarket, to be honest with you.
• 1:00:18
  I just like knowing where things are in the supermarket.
• 1:00:20
  Yeah, so imagine having to live in an Airbnb for like, close to a year.
• 1:00:25
  There's this constant new, new, new, new, new.
• 1:00:28
  So that was a lot.
• 1:00:30
  So yeah, there's that loss of familiarity.
• 1:00:33
  You know you're going to lose that, but to feel it is different.
• 1:00:39
  I couldn't be at my grandmother's funeral, so I did a video tribute that was played.
• 1:00:49
  I was able to be my authentic self in the video, and they felt it.
• 1:00:55
  Um, but that's, that's a loss.
• 1:00:58
  That's something I had to give up to be like, I can't be there.
• 1:01:01
  Like I, but she knows and she's already with me and she's doing the things and she's helping me navigate this time of my life.
• 1:01:09
  And so.
• 1:01:11
  I feel you, I see you, and I'm so grateful.
• 1:01:14
  But, like, the in-person of connecting with other family members and our greater community that held us, especially when we just moved to the U.S., it's gone.
• 1:01:24
  Like, I can't do that.
• 1:01:27
  So that's, yeah, accepting that.
• 1:01:30
  That is, that's a challenge.
• 1:01:32
  And I haven't completely landed in, like, yeah, it's fine.
• 1:01:35
  No, it's not fine.
• 1:01:38
  So that's why I'm grateful for the voice notes that I get from my OGs and the conversations.
• 1:01:43
  And I do have some traveler friends who have come to visit me.
• 1:01:48
  And that has also been really, really just like refreshing to be like.
• 1:01:53
  because then they can observe me and who I am now and see the journey that I've been on.
• 1:01:59
  And they know.
• 1:02:01
  And I don't take that for granted either.
• 1:02:04
  You mentioned about being a single mom in a new country.
• 1:02:07
  And the thing is, we hear a lot of talk about co-parenting, right?
• 1:02:10
  People do one weekend on off blah, blah, blah.
• 1:02:13
  And I'm just wondering, being a single mother in a completely different country that is very far away, right?
• 1:02:20
  Not like you were in Miami to Jamaica, for example,
• 1:02:23
  How is managing that dynamic in terms of because you can't co-parent?
• 1:02:28
  No, there's no co-parenting.
• 1:02:30
  But I mean, my dynamic was that it was going to be OK for me to leave the country because if it was a dynamic that.
• 1:02:40
  you know, where there was a regular interaction of co-parenting, then I wouldn't have been able to leave.
• 1:02:46
  So just the pure fact, because I do get asked this question a lot here, it's like, well, aren't you keeping your child away from the other brothers?
• 1:02:53
  I get asked the question all the time.
• 1:02:54
  Yeah, I'm like, no, I'm not, actually.
• 1:02:57
  It's the same situation as it would have been if we were in my former location.
• 1:03:02
  So there is some sort of contact.
• 1:03:05
  There is communication.
• 1:03:06
  But it's the same type of communication that existed when I lived in my previous city in the States.
• 1:03:14
  So nothing's changed.
• 1:03:16
  And financially, yes, you know.
• 1:03:19
  that's a present there's a financial presence there she gets gifts and that's the extent of but in terms of like the decision making the parenting I'm the full-time solo bolo we out here doing it do you think sometimes that's a better situation to be in
• 1:03:35
  Because again, I'm speaking from my own perspective.
• 1:03:39
  I hear so many arguments and things that people are managing with the co-parenting.
• 1:03:44
  Obviously, there are certain people that are co-parenting and it's fabulous.
• 1:03:47
  But we also hear of scenarios where it's not fabulous.
• 1:03:51
  And so sometimes I wonder, because the family dynamic has changed...
• 1:03:58
  is it perhaps easier for everyone involved, going back to what you're saying about energy, right?
• 1:04:03
  And you being able to keep a steady, peaceful, calm energy, which obviously is going to benefit your home, versus we have this thing of we have to co-parent in a particular way, even if it's not serving.
• 1:04:17
  Well, I mean...
• 1:04:19
  That's the thing about like the end or like a marriage that ends, right?
• 1:04:25
  People don't realize that because I think the pushback you get as a single parent, especially mothers who have the child in terms of custody, is, oh, you're keeping the child.
• 1:04:36
  You know, you're depriving the child of X, Y and Z.
• 1:04:39
  And it's like.
• 1:04:41
  Well, if the dynamic was such, there wouldn't have been a need for a separation or a divorce.
• 1:04:47
  Like, then it would have just been that, the family unit.
• 1:04:53
  And we all could just be living hunky-dory.
• 1:04:56
  But clearly, that's not the case.
• 1:04:59
  And that's not the case for a lot of people.
• 1:05:00
  And there are a lot of people in unhealthy family dynamics.
• 1:05:04
  I just chose to want something better for myself and my child.
• 1:05:09
  To say, hey.
• 1:05:11
  This isn't working.
• 1:05:12
  And rather than continue to pretend that it's working, let us do everybody a favor in this dynamic and let this relationship evolve.
• 1:05:23
  Let us transition out of we have to be in each other's faces every single day trying to make X, Y, and Z work.
• 1:05:32
  when clearly it's not.
• 1:05:33
  It's only getting worse.
• 1:05:34
  And I had to think about the type of home environment I wanted my child to grow up in.
• 1:05:39
  And I knew that I couldn't be the mother that I wanted to be and she would need me to be if I remained in that home.
• 1:05:48
  Can I ask a random question?
• 1:05:50
  Because I'm really feeling the astrology vibes.
• 1:05:52
  I don't know enough about it.
• 1:05:54
  But like when you said you're open, I feel like I'm completely open to astrology vibes.
• 1:05:59
  If you meet someone, no.
• 1:06:00
  Do you check the chart?
• 1:06:02
  Girl, yes.
• 1:06:04
  What do you mean?
• 1:06:05
  What?
• 1:06:07
  We're not out here just dating in the wild anymore.
• 1:06:09
  Those days are done.
• 1:06:10
  We don't do that anymore now.
• 1:06:12
  So you would check the chart and if the chart was not aligned, but you in person felt that this person had potential and promise, would you make decisions based on what the chart is saying?
• 1:06:29
  Honestly.
• 1:06:31
  So I'm already ahead of you on this because I already know the type of person I'm supposed to... Because we've checked the chart.
• 1:06:38
  I've already checked, like, not necessarily the person's chart, but...
• 1:06:43
  In your chart in astrology, the woman's chart can give the chart of the husband.
• 1:06:48
  Okay.
• 1:06:49
  The partner.
• 1:06:50
  Yes.
• 1:06:51
  The type of partner you have.
• 1:06:52
  Yes.
• 1:06:52
  Whatever that dynamic looks like.
• 1:06:53
  Like the long-term person.
• 1:06:57
  So I've already done that.
• 1:06:58
  Okay.
• 1:06:58
  So I already know.
• 1:06:59
  What we're looking for.
• 1:07:00
  Yes.
• 1:07:01
  Because that's what I needed moving forward.
• 1:07:03
  I was like, if I'm going to tap into this, this is how I need it to help me in this direction.
• 1:07:07
  Right.
• 1:07:08
  So what I love about the soulmate readings is...
• 1:07:13
  is that you can date and you understand, okay, if this person, if you don't even sit across a table from this person, these are the initial boxes they need to check.
• 1:07:25
  If they don't.
• 1:07:26
  Don't even.
• 1:07:26
  Don't even bother.
• 1:07:27
  And you will listen to it?
• 1:07:28
  Yes.
• 1:07:29
  Okay.
• 1:07:29
  Yes.
• 1:07:30
  I'm at that phase now.
• 1:07:31
  You're not like, yo, but there's some butterflies, maybe.
• 1:07:34
  Butterflies are stressed.
• 1:07:35
  Butterflies don't, they don't mean what we think it means.
• 1:07:38
  But butterfly, mm-mm.
• 1:07:39
  So we're following the chart?
• 1:07:40
  Yes.
• 1:07:41
  That is so cool.
• 1:07:42
  Yeah, girl, we are following the charts.
• 1:07:44
  What?
• 1:07:45
  I've been married and divorced twice.
• 1:07:47
  We are definitely following the chart.
• 1:07:48
  I don't have time to be playing.
• 1:07:50
  What?
• 1:07:51
  No.
• 1:07:51
  No.
• 1:07:52
  Oh my goodness.
• 1:07:52
  Yeah, we're following the chart.
• 1:07:54
  If you are not, I'm not even surprised.
• 1:07:56
  Like, I could meet up with somebody one time, right?
• 1:07:59
  That's fine.
• 1:08:00
  But
• 1:08:02
  Then that one time also gives me the feedback, like the knowing, like there's the initial like spark or whatever that makes us say, okay, let's, let's see if we can, you know, get to know each other better.
• 1:08:11
  That's fine.
• 1:08:12
  And literally what's happened is that a lot of my connections have fizzled like within two weeks.
• 1:08:17
  Okay.
• 1:08:18
  Because.
• 1:08:19
  So it's really been very helpful.
• 1:08:22
  Like, really, because I'm like, I don't deal with drama when it comes to.
• 1:08:27
  We're not wasting time.
• 1:08:28
  We don't do that anymore.
• 1:08:29
  That's done.
• 1:08:31
  So I'm like, you are either enamored by me and you are checking these soulmate boxes or nothing.
• 1:08:40
  Right.
• 1:08:40
  We're just not doing that anymore.
• 1:08:43
  I love it.
• 1:08:44
  Is there anything that you would have wanted to talk about that we haven't touched on?
• 1:08:49
  Oh, my goodness.
• 1:08:54
  Maybe like advice.
• 1:08:56
  Advice?
• 1:08:56
  Yeah, because sometimes people ask for advice.
• 1:08:58
  Okay.
• 1:08:59
  Yeah.
• 1:08:59
  What would you share?
• 1:09:00
  Like, well, you know, if somebody was in a place and they were thinking about... About moving.
• 1:09:07
  Yes.
• 1:09:08
  Would you tell everyone to go and seek an astrologer?
• 1:09:11
  I highly recommend it.
• 1:09:12
  Okay.
• 1:09:13
  I do highly recommend it.
• 1:09:15
  Because I think...
• 1:09:17
  Our logic tells us one thing and sometimes it's a confirmation, right?
• 1:09:22
  Because I had another friend recently do one and I thought her chart confirmed what she knew, but that's because she'd been traveling extensively and had kind of zeroed in on these locations.
• 1:09:35
  So it really does depend on where folks are in their journey.
• 1:09:39
  If it was like me and you had never been to certain spaces, but you wanted to be in that space,
• 1:09:44
  Then, yeah, it's nice to get the insight because the insight tells you about your current experience and you know your current experience.
• 1:09:52
  Nobody can make that up for you.
• 1:09:54
  That's what I love about it.
• 1:09:56
  And then it gives you insights that you could grapple with.
• 1:10:00
  So, yeah, if you're thinking about moving or you want to relocate somewhere, it's not crazy.
• 1:10:07
  You're not crazy.
• 1:10:09
  don't listen to the naysayers because there are plenty of naysayers.
• 1:10:13
  There are plenty of people that are going to discourage you and tell you that worst case scenarios, but honestly, the worst case scenario is having the desire and having this need in you and suppressing it.
• 1:10:29
  That's the worst case scenario.
• 1:10:32
  Yeah.
• 1:10:33
  Is there anything else you would advise people who are thinking of moving?
• 1:10:36
  Yes, make sure that you have a couple of ways that you're going to generate income.
• 1:10:47
  Don't just think about that one remote job that you got with the company from your country.
• 1:10:55
  Think about also ways that you can earn money in the currency that you are in.
• 1:11:00
  Okay.
• 1:11:01
  That matters, and I think that that's something, especially folks from the West,
• 1:11:05
  take for granted when they are relocating outside.
• 1:11:08
  They're just like, oh, our currency is strong.
• 1:11:10
  Well, it's not always.
• 1:11:13
  And despite that, you need to be able to earn income in the location that you're in.
• 1:11:19
  I didn't think of that one.
• 1:11:21
  Speaking of foreign currency and local currency, how is it being American?
• 1:11:26
  Because not everywhere thinks Americans are that great.
• 1:11:29
  How are Americans received in South Africa?
• 1:11:32
  Depends on where you are.
• 1:11:34
  Okay.
• 1:11:34
  Yeah.
• 1:11:35
  I feel like I have a different experience when I'm in Johannesburg than I do in Cape Town.
• 1:11:40
  In what way?
• 1:11:41
  I mean, I think personally it's because of my chart, but I think collectively I would say that Johannesburg folks are just more direct about whether they like Americans or not.
• 1:12:00
  And I've definitely, you know, gotten the feedback sometimes that some people don't like Americans and that's okay.
• 1:12:05
  But for the most part, I think people judge you as an individual.
• 1:12:10
  Okay.
• 1:12:11
  And so in Cape Town, like, yeah, I'm American.
• 1:12:15
  And I have to tell people that I'm Sierra Leonean American.
• 1:12:19
  Like, I have to add that because that's the context of why I'm even here.
• 1:12:23
  Sure.
• 1:12:24
  It's not just I'm American and I came here.
• 1:12:26
  That's a different path.
• 1:12:28
  But –
• 1:12:30
  So I think so far we still have, you know, a good reputation, but that's not everywhere in Africa.
• 1:12:41
  So the tides do change.
• 1:12:44
  So you have to be able to read the room, right?
• 1:12:48
  You can have a desire, but you also need to be adaptable and flexible.
• 1:12:52
  And if you're one of those people that you just want to be rigid and you just want to go to one place and that's it,
• 1:12:57
  then maybe, yeah, moving abroad might not be the thing for you because you do have to adapt because the tides may change.
• 1:13:04
  And I'm hearing that in certain countries, like Namibia now has certain requirements for Americans, Uganda, and the list, and the list, because now people are defending their territory, rightfully so.
• 1:13:17
  Like, you can't give me this policy and not expect me to do something back.
• 1:13:23
  And I get it.
• 1:13:24
  I completely get it.
• 1:13:25
  So as an American, you have to be able to read the room.
• 1:13:30
  Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Yeah.
• 1:13:32
  If your life was a postcard, what would the picture look like?
• 1:13:35
  Oh.
• 1:13:37
  Oh, lots of color.
• 1:13:40
  Yeah.
• 1:13:41
  Lots of color.
• 1:13:42
  And like, you know, I have family in Hamilton, Bermuda.
• 1:13:47
  And that's a place that's really like, I love the colors of Bermuda.
• 1:13:51
  So it would look like that, where it's like pink and light blue and this.
• 1:13:56
  And it's not even fancy, but it's like just...
• 1:14:00
  It's just, it just pops.
• 1:14:02
  It's vibrant.
• 1:14:03
  And then you see the sea because the sea has to be there.
• 1:14:07
  That's, there are just certain downloads in my life that I only get when I'm near the water.
• 1:14:12
  Amazing.
• 1:14:13
  Thank you very much for your time.
• 1:14:14
  Thank you.