Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Sketchnoting for Teachers: Visual Learning with Manuel Herrera

Transcript

Sketchnoting for Teachers: Visual Learning with Manuel Herrera · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
0:03
podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
0:07
Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
0:09
as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
0:12
technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
0:15
conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
0:18
we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
0:21
and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
0:25
and let's integrate this. Hey everyone, welcome.
0:29
Thanks for joining us on the integrate this at
0:31
tech podcast It is kind of our first episode
0:34
that we've had since summer started Other than
0:37
a couple of little recaps that David and I had
0:40
while we were at the ISD conference in Denver
0:42
That took place last month But we're really excited
0:46
today. Perhaps you'll notice there's three of
0:48
us on the screen instead of two of us and that's
0:52
because What happens when you go to a great conference
0:55
like ISTE and you meet all of these other educators
0:58
from all over the country? It really gives you
1:00
a chance to network and meet new people and take
1:04
the great things that they're doing and bring
1:06
them back to our audience, which is all of you
1:09
viewers here. So I'm going to turn it over to
1:12
David to kind of introduce who this third person
1:15
is that's with us today. All right, thanks. So
1:20
yeah, the. Crazy thing about Istio is actually
1:23
when I was talking to Jeremy when we did some
1:25
of our recaps was that I actually went with the
1:28
intention of going to a lot of AI sessions. But
1:30
then as I was walking around the playground area,
1:33
I saw Manuel doing some different things with
1:38
various apps. And it was artistic stuff, which
1:42
I was kind of drawn to because I like to do a
1:44
lot with Canva. But then I was also thinking
1:46
about My kids draw a ton and they do a lot of
1:50
that type of stuff. I just edged my way over
1:54
there and started listening and stuff. Then it
1:57
ended up actually being one of my favorite sessions,
2:00
as I mentioned in the recaps that we did from
2:04
ISTE. So yeah, we have with us Manuel Herrera,
2:09
and he is currently working with Samsung Education.
2:14
And I don't know how much that ties into the
2:17
sketchnoting idea that I had come across, but
2:21
we wanted to give Manuel our platform for a little
2:26
while to kind of explain to all of our viewers
2:28
what it is that he does and what they could do
2:32
in the classroom. Manuel, do you mind giving
2:35
us a little bit of background just to start about
2:38
how you kind of got into things? Yeah, yeah,
2:40
yeah. David, Jeremy, thank you both for having
2:43
me on. I'm always excited to share kind of the
2:46
things that I do. But yeah, my name is Manuel
2:48
Herrera. I am a former educator, so I was in
2:51
education right at 20 years. My first kind of
2:55
started off education middle school. So I'm a
2:57
little bit crazy because, you know, it's middle
3:00
school. You got to be. But yeah, I taught I taught
3:02
in eighth grade, I taught math, and then I also
3:05
taught special education. And then I coached
3:08
track and cross country. And I did that for about
3:09
eight years. And I loved it, man. It's, you know,
3:13
education was always something that was kind
3:14
of strange for me as a kid, just, you know, it
3:17
just wasn't into it. So it's kind of a little
3:19
ironic that I became a teacher. But yeah, I did
3:22
that my first seven or eight years. And then
3:24
I landed an ed tech role in my district. And
3:27
I was like, Wow, I want to be here. I don't know
3:30
what this is. So this was probably, you know,
3:32
2009, 2010. So we were, iPads hadn't even come
3:37
out yet. We were still interactive whiteboards
3:40
were kind of the jam for everybody. And that's
3:43
where I started. And I've kind of been in that
3:45
world ever since. So I was an ed tech coach,
3:48
became an ed tech coordinator, eventually became
3:50
a curriculum coordinator and a coordinator of
3:53
student services. So I've done a little bit of
3:55
all of that those last 12 years. And then about
3:58
three years ago, I stepped away. I left education
4:01
and I went to work for Adobe for a little while
4:05
and kind of have the past couple of years have
4:08
kind of just been outside of education, kind
4:10
of looking in, but still definitely tied in.
4:14
And it was kind of through that journey that
4:16
I started to draw with kids and sketchnote. Yeah,
4:21
it's been an interesting journey because my role
4:24
was Ed Tech. And part of my role was to convince
4:28
teachers or share with teachers tools that are
4:30
available to them, how this can enhance learning,
4:33
how it can enhance creativity. But somewhere
4:35
in there, I found that we really just started
4:38
to put devices in front of kids and assume that
4:42
the device would do all the creativity, would
4:44
do all the work. And in some cases, it did. It
4:47
worked out that way. But in other cases, it didn't.
4:50
And that's what led me to start drawing with
4:53
kids. And we can definitely get into that a little
4:54
bit. But yeah, that's a little bit of my background.
4:57
I do a lot of consulting work now. So when I
4:59
left education, I started consulting a little
5:02
more. I started speaking. I started to, well,
5:04
I've kind of been speaking probably for the past
5:06
10 years, but started doing more of that and
5:09
consulting and working with schools and districts
5:11
around visual thinking and drawing and sketchnoting.
5:15
And it's been great. I've had a lot of fun. It's
5:17
nice to do something you love and you're super
5:20
passionate about. And even within their illustration
5:24
came out so we can definitely talk about that
5:26
because I'm also an illustrator I've illustrated
5:28
just finished my second children's book and excuse
5:31
me my third children's book I finished my second
5:34
one in the spring finished my third one this
5:36
summer and I'm really excited for that to come
5:38
out Here in the fall. So yeah, I'm happy to share
5:42
about all of that too as well Awesome awesome,
5:47
but I've been a track coach for 24 years and
5:51
just stepped away from that myself. Just this
5:54
last spring was the first year I didn't coach.
5:57
And I missed it a little bit, but I got involved
5:59
with more like officiating track meets and timing
6:02
track meets. So I feel like I'm still kind of
6:05
connected to that. But definitely I definitely
6:08
relate to that, you know, what you spoke to about,
6:11
you know, finding that passion and getting to
6:13
do the things that you're passionate about. And
6:15
I think that's, you know, definitely something
6:17
I think I also follow a similar path. to getting
6:21
involved in the EdTech side of things, being
6:24
a classroom teacher for 22 years and then kind
6:27
of transition more into this role that I have
6:30
now. But it doesn't put me with the students
6:34
every day, which I do kind of miss. But I don't
6:38
know, it's still kind of a fun area to explore
6:42
and to try to think of all the possible ways
6:45
to try to connect. your passion to other people's
6:49
passion and you know to all all with the kind
6:52
of ultimate goal in my mind of trying to help
6:54
students learn you know and so and that's that's
6:57
I guess kind of then kind of the question that
6:59
I have for you right um leads into that you know
7:03
like if we're talking about trying to find ways
7:06
to get to our students to help them remember
7:09
things to help them connect new material to old
7:12
material right um you know like to me I you know
7:17
these ideas of you being this visual thinker
7:20
and this sketchnoter and you know so how can
7:23
the sketchnoting lead to some of those things
7:26
that we want to see increases in learning from
7:29
our students right yeah yeah let me know I it
7:33
really started when I was a kid like when I was
7:35
a kid I was the kid who doodled I was the kid
7:37
who drew in the margins back when we had book
7:39
covers you guys I don't know if you come from
7:42
that generation but yeah book covers having to
7:44
do that And I would just do it oftentimes just
7:47
to focus, just to pay attention. I would draw
7:50
in the corners. I drew the S or whatever and
7:53
scribble. But it was just to focus. And I really
7:56
didn't know what it was. You're a kid. You're
7:58
just doing what you like. But I would get in
8:01
trouble. I'd get in your drawing. You should
8:03
be paying attention. So oftentimes, throughout
8:07
my K -12 experience, I would have to put the
8:11
crayons back in the box when I got caught. But
8:14
then even into college, in college, I would do
8:16
that. College became more of kind of a sketchnote
8:20
type thing where I'm using kind of visuals and
8:23
lettering and arrows and boxes to just draw what
8:27
professors were saying, what I was reading, just
8:30
to help me understand. And again, I didn't know
8:32
that that wasn't, I didn't really know what it
8:35
was. I just knew that I needed to do it. But,
8:37
you know, my friends would make fun of me like,
8:39
what are you doing? Like, I would say make fun
8:41
of me. But, you know, they would, you know, just
8:44
ask, like, I don't understand this. Why do you
8:46
do this? This seems so much harder than just
8:48
listening. Like I just need it, you know. And
8:51
so I did that for a long time and eventually
8:55
just stopped because, you know, I'm done with
8:56
college. I'm moving on in life and, you know,
8:58
having a career. And then I started teaching
9:01
again and I started teaching. And when I started
9:03
teaching, especially when I taught eighth grade
9:06
special ed, I would have kids. who I would often
9:09
have to reteach things to. So I started off teaching
9:12
in Texas. So I'm originally from Texas. Oh, I
9:14
didn't mention that. I'm originally from Texas.
9:15
I live in St. Louis, Missouri now. Sorry, we
9:18
totally skipped over that. But yeah, live in
9:19
St. Louis. But in Texas, when I was teaching,
9:22
I taught inclusion. So I was pushing into classrooms
9:25
with different groups of kids. And my kids often,
9:29
we would have to pull out and then reteach and
9:32
kind of go over concepts. And what I started
9:34
to do, because it was something I did to learn
9:36
is I would draw. I would draw with kids and they
9:40
kind of just watched and what would draw with
9:43
me. But again, I would get in trouble. I would
9:46
get in trouble with teachers and they would say
9:47
that is not note taking. We are a Cornell note
9:50
district. We need to take Cornell notes. They
9:53
need to follow this formula. And so I did it
9:56
secret. Like I would just and I'll tell a story
9:58
later, but I would just do that. And it wasn't
10:01
until probably when I got into the EdTech role
10:04
that I really started to bring that back out
10:06
again. So this is years later that I'm in EdTech
10:09
and I start drawing with kids again. But then
10:11
I started to research and look, well, what is
10:14
that? Am I doing something? Is this? And I came
10:17
across a video from Sunny Brown. She was a visual
10:22
thinker out of Boston. And she had a video, a
10:25
TED talk, a TED talk all about doodling, the
10:28
power of doodling or something like that. And
10:30
she was putting research. She was referencing
10:32
research. She was referencing examples. And she
10:35
didn't quite give it a name. She was just calling
10:38
it doodling. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's
10:40
what I'm doing with kids. I'm doing this. And
10:43
it's to help kids understand concepts, because
10:46
when we teach, sometimes we'll have visuals.
10:49
Sometimes we will just have bullet points. And
10:50
so words can kind of get lost for some students.
10:54
I was that student. kind of trying to grasp those
10:57
concepts and visually create them. She's proven
11:00
she's telling me like, here's the research, here's
11:02
what it says, it helps with memorization, it
11:04
helps comprehension. And it's really not about
11:07
how well the drawing is done. It's just about
11:10
capturing those ideas and trying to explain it.
11:13
And so it's like, oh, so this hit me on the rabbit
11:15
hole of what is this, and eventually came across
11:18
Mike roadie, who had come out with a book, the
11:23
sketch note, the sketch note handbook. And it
11:25
was all about visual thinking. It was all about
11:27
sketch noting. It was all the research. Your
11:31
brain processes information faster with visuals.
11:34
And when you're trying to capture content in
11:36
a visual way, you're using more part of your
11:39
brain. So it helps with memorization. There are
11:41
studies that show even random doodling while
11:44
you're listening, you will be able to retain
11:47
more information that you're hearing, as opposed
11:50
to just hearing it and then trying to recall
11:52
it later. So now I've got some teeth in this,
11:55
right? I'm like, all right, we're going all in.
11:58
And I'm just starting to do it more with kids.
12:01
I'm not necessarily asking them just yet. I'm
12:05
just kind of doing it with them as I'm teaching,
12:08
as I'm talking, as I'm listening to them. And
12:11
it really was this one instance where I had a
12:15
group of kids. So my role was an ed tech coordinator.
12:17
And I had a classroom at the high school that
12:20
was kind of a come and go classroom. We had all
12:22
the tech in there. So all the GoPros, all the
12:24
tripods, all the 3D printers, laser actors, we
12:27
had poster, we had everything. And so kids would
12:29
come in for projects. And I had a group of kids
12:31
that came in and they said, hey, Herrera, we
12:34
need to use your 3D printer. And I said, OK,
12:36
cool. What are you guys going to make? And they're
12:38
like, I don't know, it's for our science class.
12:40
And we're going to put this thing together, right?
12:42
It's going to have this tube, and we need it
12:44
to have. And they're like, no, no, no, no, what's
12:46
going to have this other thing? And so I was
12:47
like, all right, let's go sit down. You don't
12:50
know what you're doing. You don't know what you're
12:51
talking about. You don't know what you want to
12:52
do. And I just draw things that I hear them saying.
12:56
And they're like, yeah, yeah, OK, yeah, OK, add
12:59
this other piece. And then the other kids grabbed
13:01
markers and started contributing to this. And
13:03
that really was like, yes, OK, they're There's
13:06
a process we're missing when we're asking kids
13:08
to use really cool technology. And so it was
13:11
really for in that instance, a design process,
13:13
you know, just using sketching. But then I started
13:15
to apply it to everything else like I had done
13:17
when I was teaching note taking presentations,
13:20
videos, any of that stuff. We started with drawing
13:24
and sometimes it was, you know, trying because
13:26
they were trying to remember something or learn
13:28
something. Sometimes it was they were trying
13:30
to design something. Sometimes it was just they
13:32
were problem solving. But seeing all the pieces
13:36
really helped everybody because this isn't like
13:39
a strategy for struggling learners. This isn't
13:41
a strategy for any particular group because I
13:44
mean, I've worked with AP lit classes and they've
13:46
used sketch noting and I showed one in my presentation,
13:48
a drawing. It's really for everybody who would
13:52
benefit from it. And there are some kids are
13:54
like bullet points or my jam. Cool. That's great.
13:57
But we have other kids in the class. So that's
14:01
really kind of how this all started. It was really
14:03
like a lot of getting in trouble and just kind
14:04
of being persistent with it, because I knew it
14:07
worked for me. And then once I ran into Sonny
14:10
Brown, Mike Rhodey, Mike Rhodey eventually coined
14:12
the sketchnoting. That was when, OK, cool. I
14:16
can do this because here's the proof that I needed
14:19
for all the teachers, the administrators, parents,
14:22
whomever it might be, that it's not just drawing.
14:25
We're not just creating art. We're really thinking.
14:28
in working working together. That's a long answer,
14:31
but that's kind of how this all really, really
14:35
started. And yeah, it makes a lot of sense because
14:39
I think like with so I remember when I taught,
14:42
you know, I taught for years and the a lot of
14:45
the stuff when you do note taking was it doesn't
14:48
take long to get to like information overload.
14:51
And I think for myself, even, you know, you in
14:54
the process of taking a bunch of notes. I think
14:57
I always, even if you feel like you've accomplished
15:00
something in the note taking, whenever you come
15:03
back to it, it's really hard to figure out where
15:07
is what and what are the things that I wanna
15:10
come back to because there's just so much information
15:13
in a given topic. And I think one of the things
15:16
that I really thought about when I was watching
15:19
your session was, to me in my mind, it almost
15:24
seemed like even though there's a bunch of stuff
15:27
on the page it actually seemed more organized
15:30
because you could almost like in your mind chunk
15:32
the different sections like when you had your
15:34
page up there i could look at each different
15:37
piece and understand that it's a concept of itself
15:41
even though it might be like a smaller part of
15:43
a larger picture it was it was easier to organize
15:47
in my own mind like what was going on um is there
15:51
is there a I know you say you got in trouble
15:54
and stuff, but for teachers that want to introduce
15:59
this to students or offer it as an option, so
16:02
if you're a kid that likes taking your Cornell
16:05
notes, great, but here's an alternative. Is there
16:08
a place that you would recommend that they start
16:11
just for themselves to learn about it or to get
16:15
their students started on it? Yeah, I would highly
16:18
recommend them. Check out, I mentioned him early,
16:20
Mike Rody, his sketch noter's handbook. It's
16:24
fantastic. It's easy. It's a short book. It's
16:27
very visual. But he breaks down exactly what
16:30
you were saying, like chunking and putting some
16:32
kind of structure to that. Eventually you'll
16:34
get there. I think the first hurdle is just drawing
16:37
and putting something on paper other than just
16:40
your words. But he has a really good, a great
16:43
book. I mean, it's kind of the book everybody
16:45
goes to. And he's still around doing you know
16:49
doing talks and doing speaking but his sketch
16:50
on your handbook really breaks down Visuals it
16:53
then helps you. Okay. Now, how do I structure
16:55
that and it gives you some options and it's up
16:58
to you It's up to the teacher. It's up to each
17:00
individual student. What's what's my better structure?
17:03
For me, my my structure is just kind of chunking
17:06
stuff and throwing it on the page And if I got
17:07
it connected, I'll just use a line It's a lot
17:11
of spatial reasoning, you know, and sometimes
17:12
that can be very intimidating when you don't
17:14
have any of the blank page So yeah, I would highly
17:18
recommend his book his work the other one is
17:21
for great videos would be Verbal to visual it
17:25
is a YouTube channel The guy's name is escaping
17:28
me because I always think verbal to visual But
17:30
he breaks it down as well and his he is very
17:33
it's got a camera above him and he's got his
17:34
hand and he's drawing things and he's showing
17:36
you examples and structure Those are probably
17:40
my two go -to. Once those guys, you know, obviously
17:43
I came across Mike Roady first and then eventually
17:45
Doug Nielsen, I think is his name, Doug something
17:48
from verbal to visual is like, okay, cool. This
17:51
is kind of reinforcing what I'm already doing.
17:54
It's helping me and giving me a place to send
17:57
teachers. Cause I'm not necessarily creating
17:58
videos. It's just hard. You got to have the time
18:01
to do it. And, you know, but those two guys definitely.
18:05
would be incredible resources. And neither one
18:08
are educators, but yet speak to educators. So
18:13
yeah. Okay. I found both of them just Googling
18:17
them right now. So they're going to be bookmarked
18:21
and on my list of things to check out here too.
18:24
And Mike, he has a podcast. So what I like about
18:26
his podcast is he talks to everybody. It's not
18:31
educate educators. It is people out in other
18:33
industries and how it's being used. there, which
18:37
really helps with how is this useful? Well, when
18:40
kids leave school, you know, they're going to
18:42
they're going to be in other industries and it
18:45
is being used there in other industries. So cool,
18:48
cool podcast as well. I think it's sketch note
18:49
army is is is this podcast. Yeah, I think a lot
18:54
of people don't realize, too, that you've you've
18:56
probably seen sketching because, like, I know
18:58
that I've seen videos of complex topics or even
19:01
school topics where on YouTube. there has been
19:04
videos of sketchnoting, and it just kind of the
19:07
video is moving through the process. And so I
19:12
think people are probably more familiar than
19:16
they even realize with it, because you've probably
19:18
seen a video or two that resembles the same thing.
19:22
For sure. And it can easily be kind of a double
19:24
-edged sword when it comes to sketchnoting, which
19:27
I definitely try. Part of my talks or my workshops
19:31
are You just kind of easing the anxiety around
19:34
drawing. Because when you do Google sketch noting
19:37
and you just go to an image search, there's very
19:40
beautiful artwork. I would consider artwork as
19:44
an illustrator. That is very beautifully done.
19:47
And for some teachers, they're like, I can't
19:49
do that. I'm not an artist. I'm not. So I try
19:52
to say it doesn't have to look like that. Oftentimes,
19:55
those are created, even the ones that I created,
19:57
or for the purposes of it's going to go on social
20:00
media. Somebody has paid you to do that to create
20:03
a piece of artwork. And I can show some examples.
20:06
It doesn't look like that in the classroom necessarily.
20:09
It can be very much simplified version of that.
20:12
And so I love it. But if you're not careful with
20:15
it, it could easily like, no, I don't want to
20:17
do that. If you don't want to dig any further,
20:19
it can definitely be intimidating. Maybe it's
20:23
a good point to show some of those for the, if
20:26
you have some of them handy here. I do, I do.
20:29
And we can put them up on the screen and maybe
20:32
that entry level then for a teacher who's a little
20:35
bit apprehensive about it just becomes that much
20:37
easier to manage. For sure. Yeah, I'll put these
20:41
here and whenever you guys want to share them,
20:43
I can definitely speak to them. Here's a part
20:50
where we'll trim. All right. I'm going to show
20:56
these. Yeah. Hide this so you see a little more
20:59
of the screen. Am I good? Yeah. OK. So this is
21:06
what I mean. So these are sketch notes that I
21:08
created. I consider these artwork. I spent time.
21:12
I drafted them. They came out. I can put them
21:15
out as sketch noting, which is fine. But it does
21:19
take some time in the process. If you were to
21:20
Google, and this may be blurry, if you Google
21:22
sketch note, this is what I was saying. to see
21:25
very similar things. But that's not necessarily
21:30
what it needs to look like. It's not about art.
21:33
This is also sketchnoting. I'm not sure how well
21:36
this comes up. But the darker, the black ink
21:40
is me. I'm teaching a fifth grade class how to
21:43
sketchnote and what it means. And we kind of
21:45
just did a mind map on a character in a book
21:47
they were reading, Home of the Brave. And so
21:49
the main character is Keck. I came in the classroom.
21:52
I don't know, I guess a week after they had already
21:54
started reading the book and I said, hey guys,
21:55
just tell me about Keck. What do you know about
21:57
the main character? And I just created this simple
21:59
mind map and these icons of what they knew about
22:03
Keck. He had a pet cow named Goal. He called
22:06
the television a magic box. His airplane that
22:10
he flew on was a magic book. So we just kind
22:12
of did this. And I said, you know, do you understand?
22:13
Like, do you kind of see how this is all working?
22:15
They're like, yeah, it works. And what I did
22:17
in this example is I printed this. I had a poster
22:20
printer. I printed it really, really large. And
22:22
I sent five of them to the classroom. And so
22:25
the rest of the page was blank. And I said, OK,
22:27
you fill this out. You continue as you read.
22:30
Go draw. What do you see in your mind when you
22:32
hear the story or read the story? Again, I'm
22:34
not sure how good this comes up. But these are
22:36
the kids' drawings. This is very simple. This
22:38
is pencil. I usually tell teachers just give
22:41
kids one marker, one crayon, one pencil. Don't
22:45
give them the colors. They don't necessarily.
22:47
They'll spend more time creating art. This is
22:51
another example of, this is sketch noting. This
22:54
is from Kim Zajac. She's a speech and language
22:57
pathologist I've done work with. We've presented
22:59
together on this. And this is her students kind
23:01
of doing the kind of the about me activity at
23:03
the beginning of the school year. But these are
23:06
students who struggle with communication, whether
23:08
it's verbal or written and using drawings to
23:12
kind of express themselves. And they kind of
23:14
became these visual prompts for kids. because
23:16
then they would then present them and they would
23:18
hold them in front of themselves and so they
23:20
can read kind of read off of their their cue
23:22
card in a sense if you will. But as a teacher
23:25
I can help them organize that because I see everything
23:28
that's on their page. I can also learn about
23:32
those kids because if I'm there watching kids
23:34
draw chances are I'm going to remember those
23:36
icons around them and then I'll know a little
23:39
bit more about my student rather than reading
23:41
a narrative or reading just reading. This is
23:46
probably one of my favorite ones. This is that
23:48
AP Lit class I was telling you about. This is
23:51
the great Gatsby, sketch noted. I mean, it's
23:55
a hot mess. But if you started with the one character,
23:59
and then you watched it grow, and you watch it
24:00
grow, and you watch it grow, it made sense. I
24:04
would never hand a student and say, here you
24:06
go, go study. But Troy, the teacher in the classroom,
24:10
it was pretty interesting to watch them. Create
24:13
this, you know, they came up with the imagery.
24:14
They even used they even printed off memes And
24:18
pin those to the board. And so what was interesting
24:20
is when we erased this to kind of study prepare
24:23
for the assessment The kids would recall the
24:26
information and as they were answering questions
24:28
They would point to the blank places on the board
24:30
where that was drawn And it was in he's like
24:33
it was just fascinating to watch them point to
24:35
those relationships that they were, you know
24:37
creating Sometimes it's the memory that they
24:42
create. It may not necessarily be related to
24:44
the content, but they attach that memory to that
24:47
event that they were referencing. Sometimes it
24:51
could be silly and have no meaning, but you make
24:55
a connection. I kind of think about it as smells.
24:57
When you smell certain scents, it recalls memories.
25:02
That's how it works. So it doesn't have to be
25:06
really pretty planned out stuff, and this is
25:11
often what we will see when you look it up or
25:14
you start to research it. But like I said, Mike
25:16
Rody does a really good job, and I'm happy to
25:18
share some of the things that I teach kids and
25:21
teachers how to make it just become comfortable
25:24
with drawing. Would you say that there's more
25:28
of an emphasis on, not that someone else couldn't
25:33
understand what you're trying to get across with
25:36
your sketch note, but like, It seems to me that
25:38
the concept is more, what do you need to draw
25:42
or how do you see things to be able to process
25:46
it and better understand it or come back to it?
25:48
Would you say there's more of an emphasis on
25:49
that or is there a part that maybe we don't know
25:52
about that lends itself to other people being
25:56
able to understand it? Well, it's a very personal
25:59
thing. It's an individual thing. In that example,
26:01
they did use it as a class to see how it works
26:03
because eventually you want those kids to kind
26:05
of take that I guess, skill or and kind of apply
26:10
it to their own learning. So they're doing it
26:12
by themselves individually. That's eventually
26:16
what it becomes. It's great. It's a group activity
26:17
and it's a great way to learn. And you could
26:19
also apply that to maybe classroom discussions
26:21
as well. But in the end, I feel like it's a very
26:25
individual thing. And if you're never sure, I've
26:28
seen teachers, there was a teacher in middle
26:30
school who used it as an assessment. as they
26:33
had each read individual books, but then they
26:36
had to create these basically story maps of what
26:39
it is they read. And you look at them, it's kind
26:42
of hard to understand because that student drew
26:44
it how they saw it. But the teacher would sit
26:47
with the students and say, walk me through this.
26:50
And so they would recall and point and share.
26:52
And the teacher's like, OK, this makes sense.
26:54
Especially younger kids, their drawing isn't
26:57
always that great, or even older kids. So sometimes,
27:00
that fire hydrant was really a treat, you know,
27:02
kind of thing. So you want to still have conversations.
27:06
You want to still have conversations. You still
27:07
want to use text. You want to use handwriting
27:09
as well. It's not all drawing. It is a mix of
27:12
drawing, handwriting, arrows, lines. It's a mix
27:16
a little bit of everything. And so kids find
27:18
even adults find their comfort zone with like,
27:21
this is what I needed. Maybe I only needed it
27:23
for this one concept within this entire unit.
27:26
Great. Fine. You know, you don't have to use
27:27
it at all times. It's you kind of find where
27:31
it fits. I know one of the things that you talked
27:36
about a little bit earlier, too, and maybe it's
27:38
the right time to throw this one in there. But,
27:40
you know, and I can even see you. You're holding
27:43
a pencil. Yeah, right. So these very low tech
27:47
ways, you know, of helping to sketch note. But
27:51
you can also do some of that stuff digitally.
27:53
Do you find that there's a lot of carryover,
27:56
say, from, you know, the pencil paper type of
28:00
sketch note into transitioning and doing some
28:03
of that even in a digital in a digital manner
28:05
too or or is there a preferred method you know
28:09
that or is it up to the individual i definitely
28:12
would say it's up to the individual um but if
28:14
you you know i was very much paper pencil that's
28:16
just what i grew up with that's how i that's
28:18
how i created art when i was younger um and so
28:21
it just was easy it's accessible we have paper
28:24
i always tell teachers you don't have to buy
28:27
anything You can go to your copy center or copy
28:30
room steal a ream of paper and use that with
28:32
pencils and paper But yeah, there are digital
28:35
tools and making that transition It's an individual
28:38
thing like you can you can do it for me It was
28:40
it was hard because now I have the undo button,
28:43
you know And so as I make a stroke I have to
28:45
I can undo it I didn't like that one or I didn't
28:47
like the way that was written until I can undo
28:49
so It took some time to kind of get over that
28:52
and just like commit to the line commit to what
28:54
I've drawn like you have to do typically with
28:57
markers and paper. So it takes some time because
29:01
then now I can make my art exactly how I want
29:03
it. Because again, I can I can draw it again,
29:06
I can draw it again, I can draw it again. So
29:08
it's a tough thing. But I would never tell teachers
29:10
buy anything. But you do have tools that teachers
29:14
typically use in the classroom. So like Canva,
29:17
Figma, Adobe Express, Book Creator. Those are
29:23
already apps that a lot of class Google draw
29:25
Those are already apps that teachers are using
29:28
in the classroom and they all have drawing apps
29:30
within them So you don't don't learn anything
29:34
new don't go buy anything necessarily try with
29:37
what you have first See where it fits see how
29:40
it doesn't make sense or should I just be giving
29:42
my kids? Paper and pencil and giving them kind
29:45
of a break from the digital world for a little
29:47
bit There's lots of opportunities. The move from
29:51
one to the other, it was hard for me, again,
29:55
just because of the undo. But if you want to
29:58
start digital, start digital. That's great. You
30:01
also have, I'm pointing because there's one behind
30:02
me, interactive panels. Everybody has interactive
30:05
panels, or smart boards, or Promethean boards.
30:09
Use those. Use those, draw on those like you
30:11
normally would, but now maybe instead of having
30:13
a presentation up there, maybe just start with
30:16
a blank board and draw dry erase boards. I had
30:19
a classroom, the classroom I was at the high
30:21
school with all the tech in it, we had put whiteboards
30:24
everywhere. And it was just as easy as like,
30:26
hey, let's come chat. And then we just grab a
30:28
dry erase board and start talking. And I just,
30:31
I mean, even I do, you can see I move my hands
30:33
a lot. Like I'm always like visualizing something
30:35
that I'm drawing. And for me, it was easy to
30:40
do. But I understand how it can be, you know,
30:43
tough for other teachers. But it's kids will
30:46
copy what you write. Kids will see just I don't
30:48
spend a whole lot of time or I wouldn't spend
30:50
a lot of time sharing. I'm not a good artist
30:53
or I can't draw or don't mind. Just do it. Just
30:56
draw. The kids are going to think what they think
30:58
and just keep going. But if you just draw and
31:01
it's making sense now, they're making that connection
31:03
like, oh, now I see it. Now it makes sense to
31:07
me. I'm not even worried about that. You know,
31:08
my teacher can't draw. So Yeah, there's a lot
31:13
of options for teachers, but definitely don't
31:15
run out and buy anything. The plus about digital
31:19
is now you have a digital copy of it that's accessible
31:22
that you can share. I can embed links. So especially
31:25
I use something like Canva, Book Creator. Now
31:28
I can embed a link. I've kind of scripted out
31:31
a concept, but let's put a link to a video that
31:33
might explain it further. That's kind of the
31:35
nice thing about digital. And again, that's like,
31:38
you know... later down the road once you become
31:40
comfortable, because it's just another couple
31:43
of steps that you have to do. But, yeah. If you
31:47
were to, so I know, and maybe you don't mind
31:50
pulling your screen up again to show us, I do
31:54
remember when I was watching your presentation,
31:57
kind of along the lines of what you said with
31:59
just getting started with it. It, and maybe you've
32:04
got one of your kind of go -to tools, but is
32:06
there a? Go to tool that you have where you could
32:09
show us your concept of I believe it was five
32:12
or six shapes you kind of mentioned that you
32:15
said Anybody can do this because if you can draw
32:18
these five or six shapes This is where you kind
32:21
of start. Do you mind showing us that concept?
32:24
Yeah, absolutely. So Again building confidence
32:27
with teachers is a tough thing, but I always
32:30
tell them like let's let's draw these simple
32:31
shapes And it's you know a square circle a triangle,
32:41
some dots, a line, and kind of a blob or a kind
32:46
of a squiggle. If you can draw these simple shapes,
32:50
I mean, you can draw just about anything for
32:52
the purposes of explaining a concept. And this
32:54
is really all you need to know how to draw because
32:57
depending on what it is, you kind of, the image
33:00
that you're trying to create, if you can in your
33:02
mind, break it up into shapes and kind of put
33:05
it back together using these shapes, it becomes
33:07
easier. I will say it takes some time. So for
33:10
example, if I'm going to be talking about maybe
33:13
a city that's in a book, or maybe it's a setting
33:16
of a place, and I just want to draw it because
33:18
we're going to draw a story map, right? We're
33:20
going to create a timeline of a book we're reading.
33:24
I'm just using rectangles or squares and lines.
33:31
And I've created kind of this cityscape of some
33:35
sort. But that's my setting of my story. And
33:37
if I need to, I can do this. I can also label
33:41
it. I don't have to just rely on it. But now
33:44
I'm kind of grounded this image in this story.
33:46
And now we're traveling somewhere. And we're
33:50
going from St. Louis to Colorado. And we were
33:53
just in Denver. And now I need to create some
33:55
mountains. And these are just triangles. And
33:57
here are my blobs. But I'm not, I'm not trying
34:02
to be super artistic. Yes, I've drawn these things
34:04
over and over and over again. And I have this,
34:08
you eventually develop a visual library in your
34:10
head of images that you can recall. And sometimes
34:13
these are gonna be very content specific. But
34:16
you know, sorry, I'm trying not to move this
34:18
a lot. But yeah, so now if I need to, I can still,
34:22
I can write Denver or I can write, well, I guess
34:24
that's on Denver. I can write the mountains.
34:26
And if I need to put a cityscape in here. I can,
34:29
but keeping things simple. Planets are always
34:35
easy to draw circles. Trees, I can use any of
34:40
those shapes and then just draw a line with it
34:42
and I get a tree. So even just changing up your
34:45
trees and usually I kind of add some branches
34:47
just to, but I'm not, again, not too worried
34:50
about color just yet. I'm just trying to get
34:52
a concept out of my head onto paper in some way.
34:57
You know, I have I usually have kids, you know,
35:00
practice food. So here's my pizza. That's just
35:03
a triangle. Things that are things that see there's
35:05
my undo. See, like I didn't draw that one line
35:07
perfect. So I had to go. That's just, you know,
35:09
my habit at this point. But, yeah, I like squares.
35:12
I use squares and boxes for a lot of things.
35:16
So this could be a cereal box. I work with kids
35:22
in engineering classes and we talk about drawing.
35:26
Isometric drawings so we always draw butter because
35:28
we have to draw in three dimensions But I can
35:30
you know draw butter little just simple things
35:32
that the idea is like are we ever gonna talk
35:34
about butter in class? No, but did I have fun
35:37
drawing butter? Yeah, and so hopefully I'm having
35:40
fun doing simple things like this That makes
35:43
it exciting for me And so then I'm probably gonna
35:47
be a little more willing to continue doing it
35:50
But science concepts, if we're talking about
35:53
lab safety, we're gonna have to be able to label
35:55
all these beakers and graduated cylinders. But
36:01
they're just simple shapes that I'm creating,
36:07
that I've drawn over and over again. Computers,
36:09
I draw computers all the time for whatever topic,
36:13
digital citizenship or safety. But again, you'll
36:19
build that library It's fun because then you'll
36:22
you know in these sessions I'll have people like
36:25
give me something to draw and I'll try to draw,
36:27
you know the best I can So for example one one
36:30
of these they said justice. I was like, oh man
36:34
Like how do I draw justice like because concrete
36:37
things are easy to draw. I can look on my desk
36:39
I can draw this microphone. I can draw the laptop.
36:41
I can draw a lamp, but justice. How do I draw
36:44
justice? Well in my head, I think justice I think
36:47
of you know, Lady Justice with the scale in her
36:52
hand, right? And she's blindfolded. So then this
36:54
gets me into people. How do I draw people? Simple
36:58
shapes. Sometimes we draw people like this. This
37:01
is probably a pretty standard human that we might
37:04
draw. But it's hard because if I need to create
37:07
certain features, it's a little hard because
37:09
their body is so thin that I start to play this
37:13
game to try to put clothes on them. And it just
37:16
doesn't, it doesn't come out like I want it.
37:18
So what I just started to do was I started to
37:21
draw the head, the circle, and I would draw the
37:25
body like this. I would just create kind of this
37:29
open square, no particular reason. You can close
37:31
it if you want to. And then you draw the feet.
37:33
And the reason I do this is because now I have
37:37
this whole area in the chest that I can, you
37:40
know, I can write whatever it is I need to write.
37:42
I can put an icon in there. I need to draw another
37:45
person. Maybe their garment is a little bit longer.
37:51
But now I have this whole area to add whatever
37:54
it is I need to. So when it came to Justice,
37:59
OK, Justice is a lady. She's got like a robe
38:01
or a gown. So I said, OK, so I am going to draw
38:05
this head. And I drew this kind of gown thing,
38:09
and it's little flowy feet. The hands. And then
38:15
she's holding that scale. Again, this isn't perfect.
38:20
And then she's blindfolded. Done. Justice. That
38:24
is not the most perfect example of justice. But
38:26
again, I'm creating a memory and a connection
38:29
to that. And if I need to, however I'm referencing
38:33
it in this talk, I can add more context, more
38:38
imagery around it. Or maybe we can say, what
38:40
are the? What are the elements of justice that
38:42
we enjoy? And so now it becomes a mind map and
38:44
I can draw that out. And maybe that's the only
38:47
drawing I do. I tell teachers, just find some,
38:49
maybe just start with one thing and just do it
38:51
and see what kids' reactions are to that. Because
38:56
then you might expand that to the next concept
38:58
tomorrow. Don't overwhelm yourself. Keep things
39:02
simple. I'm gonna continue kind of expanding
39:05
this canvas a little bit. The people are giving
39:07
me a... Crash course world history vibes Yeah
39:13
people and we have to draw a lot of people just
39:15
kind of do some humps then you give them heads
39:18
and If they need some you know specific Clothing
39:25
you can kind of add that I don't ever put hair
39:27
if I'm doing a bunch of people So when I was
39:29
teaching this is the story I was always talking
39:31
about earlier my kids who I would pull out of
39:34
class we teach we'd redraw we would branches
39:37
of government was always really tough because
39:39
they had to know the branches of government,
39:40
then who was in them, their term limits, how
39:43
many people. So I would typically we gave kids
39:46
the graphic organizer and they just labeled it
39:48
right. And so what I would do is I would actually
39:51
draw the graphic organizer for them and with
39:53
them. So we would start with the buildings. So
39:57
we'd say the legislative branch. Cool. The legislative
40:02
branch and we would look the buildings up and
40:03
have an image of them. Like roughly, this is
40:06
the legislative branch. It's at the Capitol.
40:08
That's what the Capitol kinda looks like. Then
40:11
you have the executive branch. These guys are
40:13
always, they're hanging out at the White House.
40:17
And so this is the executive branch, the campus
40:19
bill. And then you have the judicial branch and
40:22
they're at the Supreme Court. They are at the
40:24
courthouse. And that's what the courthouse looks
40:28
like. Oh, these have windows. And then we would
40:33
kind of branch off from there. So legislative
40:34
branches has two houses. We would draw literally
40:37
two houses. The Senate and the House of Representatives.
40:42
And then the Senate has 50 senators, 100 senators.
40:47
We would just continue. It is a graphic organization,
40:48
but we're using this visual. And my kids would
40:51
just copy this. They would just write with me.
40:53
We'd stop. I wouldn't go this fast by any means.
40:56
In a way, the president and the vice president.
40:58
Judicial branch has nine, so I wouldn't draw
41:00
nine individual people. We would do this. And
41:05
at the time, I drew ties on the men. The women
41:08
had scooped necks just so we knew how many men,
41:11
how many women. And we would do this. And any
41:15
time we would reference, if they'd ask a question
41:17
about the president or they ask a question about
41:19
the Supreme Court justices, I would draw and
41:22
kind of work my way down until I got to where
41:24
it is that they needed. What we what they wanted
41:27
to discuss and they kind of created this memory.
41:28
So when my kids went to take the test the first
41:32
thing they did was they flipped their test over
41:33
and they drew this whole thing out and Other
41:36
kids were like what's going like what like why
41:38
are they doing that? Like I don't know your teacher
41:41
said I couldn't do with you, you know, so little
41:44
things like this just Making sense of everything
41:48
because if you just say the legislative branch
41:50
the executive branch those those words just hang
41:53
out in the air for some kids and for some adults,
41:56
but when I can at least kind of ground it into
41:58
something, fantastic. My teacher in high school
42:02
did this. I still remember this. Do you know
42:07
what that is? A tree and water? It is a tree
42:13
and this is a squirrel. And anywhere that squirrel
42:18
can be in relationship to that tree is considered
42:21
a preposition. So that squirrel can be inside
42:23
the tree, it can be above the tree, it can be
42:25
below the tree, it can be around the tree, it
42:27
can be on the tree. That was just something she
42:29
taught and she used a visual. So for me, when
42:33
I would... Because her big thing was us ending
42:35
sentences in prepositions when we wrote and when
42:37
we spoke. And so she would always draw this drawing
42:40
and it just stuck. It's a silly drawing, but
42:43
it sticks. It makes it stick and I can recall
42:47
it. Don't ever have to use it now as an adult
42:50
but you know when I was writing in school That
42:52
was a visual that would come to my mind But yeah
42:56
practice I always tell teachers practice what's
42:58
on your desk, you know, you got your your coffee
43:01
cups That are on your desk. You've got your I'm
43:05
sure every teacher has their Stanley Cup, you
43:07
know you Just draw the things draw your phone
43:11
phones are getting harder and harder because
43:13
there's less of a less things on a screen now
43:15
or less things there But just draw the things
43:18
that you see. And again, you're just trying to
43:20
have fun. You just want to have fun. Don't make
43:22
it stressful. Don't make it hard. Just have fun
43:27
with it. And eventually, that will start to trickle
43:31
into the work that you're doing. But this is
43:35
also kind of the nice thing about digital is
43:36
I can do things like this, and now I have more
43:38
space. But I would never, you know, don't go
43:42
buy Procreate. Don't spend money on an iPad if
43:45
you don't have it. Pencil paper first if you
43:48
still have a document camera that works too kids
43:51
can actually like it's hard for you to see because
43:54
You don't see my hand hitting the paper and where
43:57
I'm gonna draw. It's like all of a sudden drawing
43:58
just kind of pops up With document cameras, you
44:02
know kids can see you draw or with an interactive
44:04
whiteboard Kids can see where you're drawing
44:07
and what you're drawing and as you're making
44:08
those those strokes Yeah people practice people
44:16
Practice everyday objects. You know, start with
44:20
story maps, do story maps, just create a line.
44:23
And just start with the beginning of the story
44:25
and draw major events. And you know, and that's
44:28
that's the end of it. Just do that. I mean, history,
44:31
we always do timelines, right? You could do this
44:34
with with just about anything you're teaching.
44:37
I like one of the timelines that I saw a student
44:39
create. I'm going to erase all this just for
44:41
room is using visuals. As opposed to creating
44:44
a timeline like this with a start and an end,
44:47
I'm going to change colors just for dramatic
44:49
effect. She would draw her timeline. It was a
44:52
timeline of her life. And she would draw. And
44:54
if she had a low point, she actually made it
44:57
a low point. And then when she had a high point
44:59
that was exciting in life, and maybe life stood
45:01
up here for a while, and then it kind of went
45:02
back down to kind of everything was normal, that
45:05
visual right there just adds so much more to
45:08
a timeline. Like this was like grandparents passed
45:10
away. I don't know how to do it. That's tombstone.
45:13
It's terrible. But great things were, I got a
45:15
dog. So awesome. But it's this visual that helps
45:21
even memorize events, precipitating events in
45:24
history. Was that a low point in history? Was
45:26
that a mediocre point? Well, now we're talking
45:28
about perspective. It might have been a low point
45:30
for this person. It might have been a great thing
45:32
for this. Little things like that. Dogs, because
45:35
I said dog. Animals. Animals are this is how
45:39
I draw my animals when I'm explaining things
45:41
to kids if I need to explain a rectangle some
45:45
legs and then you add a head and You can literally
45:48
just change out the head and the tail Depending
45:51
on what your your animal is again. I'm not trying
45:54
to create art. I'm just like cool We're talking
45:56
about dogs in a story or we're talking about
45:59
and you can even use the blob for you know sheep
46:01
in a story But that's it we're just trying to
46:07
Not the most not the most perfect thing, but
46:10
you can still you can still label things Yeah
46:16
I was kind of fat all that was fast, but that's
46:19
that's the idea is Have fun kids will do it kids
46:23
are great younger kids are great You it's hard
46:26
because sometimes you want to take the art out
46:28
of the kid because the kid wants to put all the
46:31
detail Into things. I don't really have a strategy
46:35
You know your kids best. You know what kind of
46:37
conversations might help them think a little
46:41
more simply or trying to get your ideas out.
46:44
But this also leads to brainstorming. What does
46:46
brainstorming look like? How do I brainstorm?
46:48
How do I write ideas quickly? Well, now I know
46:50
how to draw some things pretty quickly. So now
46:52
maybe I can brainstorm a little quicker. Cool.
46:56
Thanks for showing that. Yeah, no problem. I
46:59
think it's really good for people to understand
47:02
that you can You can start with very simple concepts
47:05
and you don't have to be the best drawer in the
47:08
world to be able to accomplish it. And I like
47:12
to have the fact like, hey, maybe that didn't
47:14
look that drawing that I just did. Maybe it didn't
47:16
turn out the way I wanted it to exactly, but
47:19
it means something to me. And if I just write
47:21
sheep. Like, over the top of it, right? Now I've
47:24
identified what it is. Like, I can go back and
47:27
like, oh yeah, my sheep sucks, but at least I
47:29
know I was talking about sheep. I'll remember
47:31
that a little bit, but. I did an activity with
47:34
some middle school kids and we were doing triangular
47:36
trade kind of during, you know, colonial era.
47:39
And I was drawing my, you know, crappy rendition
47:42
of the US or, and then I would label the colonies
47:45
and then I would draw England and I drew Africa.
47:47
And then I would go around to the kids and see
47:49
what they were drawing just to kind of see what
47:52
they were doing. And this one girl just drew
47:54
three circles and labeled them, 13 colonies,
47:57
E for England and A for Africa. And I was like,
47:59
why did you draw it like that? She's like, well,
48:01
you just wanted us to make sure we knew who was
48:02
trading, what they were trading, because then
48:04
we labeled things on the lines. She's like, I
48:06
didn't even necessarily draw the US, right? And
48:09
I was like, no, as long as that makes sense to
48:11
you and you can see it, great. And she drew the
48:15
icons for the different. commodities that they
48:17
were trading, but she didn't worry about like,
48:19
I was like, I'm going to draw the United States,
48:21
even though I'm only going to exactly. Yeah.
48:24
Yeah. And so that's like, Oh, my Virginia, what
48:26
happened? And so it's, it's fun to do gallery
48:30
walks with kids when you do stuff like this,
48:32
like give them some of the concepts. Maybe you,
48:35
you're going to want them. Maybe you start sketch
48:36
noting or at least sketching something. I would
48:39
give them time. Like, here's some of the things
48:41
that we're going to talk about. Let's draw them
48:44
first simply and just let them kind of draw those
48:47
because then when you go to maybe take notes
48:49
and actually start the teaching They've kind
48:52
of at least have that image in their head now.
48:54
You you kind of support them. You kind of help
48:55
them along So it's a little quicker, but it's
48:58
good to do gallery walks because some kids will
49:01
draw things very simple and you're like, yes
49:04
I should have done transportation doesn't always
49:06
have to be a plane a car. It could just be railroad
49:09
tracks You know, or a train could, you know,
49:11
little things like that. Some kids will just
49:13
use it, take it like, awesome. This is a simple
49:16
way to draw this idea. This is how, you know,
49:21
Jeremy did it. This is how David did it. Just
49:22
as an option for other kids, especially those
49:26
kids that are like, I don't want to draw this.
49:28
I'm just going to draw even simpler. Great. Awesome.
49:30
You just, you helped us actually by doing that.
49:34
So gallery walks are really are fun to do with
49:37
kids. and teachers as well. Cool. So I'm kind
49:44
of wondering if there's a favorite sketchnote
49:46
project that you've ever done or been a part
49:49
of. I mean, either with kids or your own personal
49:53
one or both? I would say one of like... One of
49:58
the most interesting ones that I've done recently
50:01
is I'm also kind of the in -house sketchnoter
50:03
for a design firm in New York, Rosenfeld Media.
50:07
And so I get to sketchnote their speakers at
50:10
a conference. I've probably done four or five
50:12
of them. And it's interesting because these are
50:17
other industries that I'm having to learn and
50:19
other concepts and things in industry that I'm
50:22
not necessarily familiar with. So these are all
50:25
designers of all sorts. And from the operation
50:28
side to the actual designing, you know, physical
50:30
designing side, I like it. It's fun. It's fun
50:33
to see and then share with them what I've done.
50:35
And they're like, Oh, my gosh, this is amazing.
50:36
Like, just to hear them give me feedback on something,
50:40
you know, that I capture that they said, that's
50:43
for sure my favorite and probably one of my most
50:45
the hardest ones because I'm not familiar necessarily
50:49
with all of the things are going to say. So I
50:53
will have to, there's times where I'm just like,
50:54
okay, a thing is going to go here. Let me go
50:57
research that. And then I'll have to go look,
50:59
what does that even mean? And so those are, those
51:03
have been fun. Like I've really enjoyed those
51:05
professionally, just getting outside of education,
51:08
building a library in my head of new things that
51:11
I can use. But man, I, you know, I always like
51:15
working with kids, kid, watching kids use this
51:18
for like pre -writing activities. There's a lot
51:20
of fun teaching kids storyboarding, you know,
51:22
I i've that's an activity I do with kids and
51:25
I love it because you're you're teaching them
51:26
how to break up a story or break up a narrative
51:29
into pieces Chunk it and when they do that, they
51:32
they add so much more detail in a drawing than
51:35
they will in their writing So when you ask them,
51:38
hey write more detail you can reference. Hey
51:41
you reference like your bedroom Why don't you
51:43
talk about your comforter? Look at all the stuff
51:45
on your comforter you drew. It's like this theme
51:46
or You didn't mention that cat on the chair in
51:49
the kitchen by the door. What's that about? Talk
51:52
about that. You have things to actually point
51:55
to. Otherwise, you're trying to pull stuff out
51:59
of kids' heads that is not always forthcoming,
52:01
or they forget. But drawings, you see detail.
52:04
So it's really cool. It's really cool to do that.
52:07
So with kids, definitely storyboarding stories
52:09
is fun. I'm trying to think of any other ones.
52:13
So what about your? Projects you have going as
52:16
an illustrator. Oh, man, that's so Those have
52:20
been a blast like, you know I started doing sketch
52:23
noting and in working with kids and it really
52:26
started from there I started publishing those
52:28
are putting those on social media not publishing
52:29
but putting them on social media and You know
52:32
really receptive people receptive asking questions
52:35
and then I started to sneak in my own drawings
52:37
because then I just started to draw more Kind
52:40
of like back when I was a kid I started to draw
52:43
more and I started to share those and people
52:44
like, oh, this is great. Oh, this, I really,
52:46
hey, can you, and can you draw this for me? And
52:49
it really kind of just snowballed from there.
52:51
Like I got, you know, draw my pet, draw my team,
52:55
draw my face. Can you draw these things? Can
52:57
you draw this character? And then it just led
53:00
to networking and getting, you know, people to
53:03
share things. And then eventually somebody reached
53:05
out and said, hey, I work for this publishing
53:07
company. We are looking for illustrators. Your
53:09
name came up. Would you be interested to be enlisted
53:12
as an illustrator? And I'm like, sure. I never
53:14
really kind of thought of myself in that sense.
53:17
Like, you know, imposter syndrome is real. And
53:20
so I put it on there and they're like, cool.
53:23
I'd never illustrated a kid's book before. I
53:25
didn't know how to illustrate a kid's book. But
53:28
you kind of, you know, you just go and research
53:30
and you look and then I reached out to people.
53:32
And because I had that one book, I bled to the
53:35
next book. And then I recently Was I started
53:41
posting things online sketching? podcasts I was
53:45
sketching podcasts that I'm listening to and
53:47
The things I'm hearing post them tagging people
53:50
and they would reach out like hey, can you can
53:53
you do this for us for this and It's just it's
53:56
kind of just gone from there. It's been a lot
53:58
of fun. I just recently I'm in st. Louis. Illinois
54:03
is literally right there. So there's a visitor
54:05
bureau and they reached out and said hey, can
54:06
you do a illustration a map of this particular
54:09
area, it's going to go in our visitor's guide.
54:11
I did it for them. The other visitor's bureau
54:14
down the downstate said, hey, you did it for
54:16
them. Can you do it for us? And can you do a
54:19
mural? Sure. So I learned how to do a 15 by four
54:28
foot, illustrate a 15 by four foot mural that
54:31
they're putting in their office next week. So
54:34
cool. Yeah, it's been really cool. Fortunate,
54:38
you know, a lot of hard work, excited, but it's
54:41
been fun. So it's hard because that's when I
54:43
say I'm busy and I can't make videos. I mean,
54:45
I'm busy and I can't make videos. But I like
54:49
it because then I get to talk to those people
54:51
about drawing and how it works. And, you know,
54:54
if you have kids, this is how it can work. So
54:56
I get to, you know, share with it outside of
54:59
education. Cool. Got one more question for you.
55:06
Sure. If you could collaborate with any artist
55:10
or writer, past or present, who would that be?
55:14
Who would be your favorite one that you would?
55:18
I'm a big Oliver Jeffers fan. I don't know if
55:22
Oliver Jeffers is a children's book. He's an
55:25
artist and a children's book writer. He wrote
55:26
The Day the Crayons Quit. I don't know if you
55:29
guys know. Yeah. And I got to meet him. I got
55:31
to meet him. He was in Chicago doing a talk.
55:35
He's one of my favorite illustrators, or I guess
55:37
artists. And I would love to do something with
55:40
him. Like that would be really, really cool.
55:43
I mean, he's just, he seems like a nice genuine
55:44
guy. I like the things that he has to say. I
55:48
like the art that he creates. He also, he's a
55:50
painter as well. I mean, he's a full on artist,
55:53
does it in a variety of mediums, but he makes
55:56
it look like it's. So simple, yet I've watched
56:00
videos of him create stuff. I'm like, no, that's
56:02
OK. Yeah, he put some work behind that kind of
56:04
thing. And I like that. That would probably be
56:07
somebody who I would love to spend time with
56:11
and kind of pick their brain and just get to
56:14
create something with them for sure. Cool. All
56:18
right. I know we're coming up on an hour here
56:20
of recording time. It went really, really fast.
56:24
But I've got to get my last question in here
56:25
too. Sure. as I really like to cook. And I think
56:31
my tacos, at least for my family, they're just
56:35
your standard ground beef. And they eat them
56:39
up. My son just can't get enough of them. But
56:43
I want to take my taco game to the next level
56:46
here. For sure. What can you recommend to me
56:50
on how to amp it up and make them a little bit
56:52
more special? A recipe that I use a lot, and
56:56
it's crock pot, so it's even easier, is if you
56:59
Google, it is copycat recipe for Chipotle's barbacoa
57:05
tacos. It does not taste like barbacoa at Chipotle
57:09
at all. I don't think it does, but they are delicious,
57:12
and they're spicy, and you can always adjust
57:15
it. Because you're putting peppers in there,
57:17
you can always adjust it. I love it. You put
57:19
a bunch of stuff in the blender, and then you
57:20
put all the meat into a crock pot. six hours
57:23
later, you've got a ton, a ton of it. So those
57:27
are my favorite to make my kids like that. I
57:29
even I'll even make some homemade tortillas,
57:31
which I've been working on my tortilla game for
57:33
a little while. Yeah, I've considered trying
57:36
to do that, too. I've got this flat top Blackstone
57:39
grill. Perfect. It would work pretty well for
57:41
that. Yeah. Don't whatever you do. Don't use
57:43
a like a tortilla press. I try to use a tortilla.
57:45
It doesn't press them thin enough and then you
57:48
end up having to roll them out. But yeah, that
57:52
that black stone would be perfect. Like I'm still
57:54
using like a skillet. I need to go get a iron
57:57
like Okomala. I need to get one of those. But
57:59
yeah, barbacoa tacos. Look them up. Copycat recipe.
58:03
I'll send it. And it's still I love them. My
58:06
kids love them. I love them. My girlfriend loves
58:07
them. And you get it's a lot. I mean, it makes
58:10
a lot. So yeah, definitely. Definitely try that.
58:13
That will be a completely different taco for
58:16
Yeah. Awesome. You gave me a weekend, a weekend
58:18
idea here. Let me know, man. Let me know if you
58:21
make them. Just let me know how you. Yeah, for
58:22
sure. Cool. I think we need to, uh, in our description,
58:25
we'll put all of Manuel's contact and books and
58:28
everything. And right under that, we'll put the,
58:31
the rest of the tacos. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect.
58:36
So, well, it's your turn. Uh, thanks, uh, Manuel
58:42
for for taking the time. And I think a lot of
58:45
people will get some great ideas from this and
58:48
will continue to spread sketchnoting and make
58:52
it more and more widely used among teachers and
58:55
students, hopefully. So. Well, thanks, guys,
58:58
for having me. I mean, like I said, I get excited
59:00
to share this. I mean, it's fun. So, yeah, let
59:03
me know how else I can help. Well, I think we'll
59:06
look for you in San Antonio next summer. I will
59:09
be there. I grew up in Texas, man. Wear shorts,
59:12
wear flip flops, and wear t -shirts. I mean,
59:15
it's going to be hot. Got it. Yeah. But if you
59:20
ever make it up to the Minnesota area, give us
59:21
a shout out, too. I will, man. I need to. The
59:25
closest I've gotten, we took a family vacation
59:27
last minute to Lake Okoboji, which is like right
59:30
northern part of Iowa. And I drove up to Minnesota
59:34
just to say I was there. And I came right back.
59:36
20 miles about 20 miles away or something like
59:38
that. So yeah, definitely need to come up that
59:40
way man Well, cool. Well, thanks again. Yeah,
59:43
no problem Enjoy your vacation. Enjoy the rest
59:46
of your summer too. You too guys. Take care.
59:48
Yeah All right, hey David that was fantastic,
59:59
you know what great concepts and great ideas
1:00:03
and i don't know it got me really excited that
1:00:06
whenever he would mention somebody by name i
1:00:09
i definitely jumped on my other screen and started
1:00:12
finding out more about them too so i'm excited
1:00:14
to dig deeper into a lot of the things that he
1:00:17
was talking about so um yeah i don't know any
1:00:20
other thoughts that you had here yeah i i plan
1:00:23
to um look at uh some of the uh the sketch note
1:00:27
uh writers that he had mentioned um i know with
1:00:30
the illustration stuff that uh that book is familiar.
1:00:34
I didn't know who it was that did it, but yeah,
1:00:37
that's definitely something I need to do. And
1:00:40
we'll, in the description, like I said, we'll
1:00:42
put everything down there. So for anybody that's
1:00:45
interested in checking out any of those things
1:00:47
that were mentioned during the podcast, we'll
1:00:50
make sure we link those up so that you can just
1:00:53
directly access them. So that was great. I went
1:00:56
super fast. Really engaging. Right, and so we
1:01:01
don't have anything planned right now for our
1:01:04
next episode, but you can look for something
1:01:07
here. David and I each have our conferences that
1:01:10
are coming up that we're hosting. Ours in our
1:01:14
neck of the woods in Minnesota is called Lake
1:01:16
Ecmec. It's coming up on August 6th and you have
1:01:20
one coming up on August 8th. Yeah, we'll be with
1:01:23
you and then right after we'll do ours. And that's
1:01:27
in Worthington, Minnesota at the high school.
1:01:31
Everything's coming really fast. It's gonna be
1:01:33
here pretty quick. So right and then I'm sure
1:01:35
we'll do something after one or both of those
1:01:38
Or maybe just one combined one after we're both
1:01:41
done and recuperated from hosting a conference,
1:01:45
which is a lot of work so