Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Visionary Vehicles - Malcolm Bricklin’s Empire (Part 2)

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Visionary Vehicles - Malcolm Bricklin’s Empire (Part 2) · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from
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all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors,
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designers, and everything in between.
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Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder.
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How did they get that job or become that person?
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The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.
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Our guest tonight began his career in the automotive industry in
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the early 1960s when he started importing small cars from Europe and
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Japan to sell in the United States.
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In 1968, he founded Subaru of America and helped introduce the
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Subaru 360 to the American market.
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The 1970s, Malcolm Bricklin turned his detention to creating his own
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sports car, the Bricklin SV one.
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The car featured Gullwing doors and a fiberglass body
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and was powered by a V engine.
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2,854 units were sold before production ceased in 1975.
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Today, Malcolm remains an active and influential figure in the automotive
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industry, continuing to explore new ideas and business ventures in the
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pursuit of an entrepreneurial vision.
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And he's here tonight to explain to us just exactly what he's been up to.
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Thanks, Don.
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And with that, picking up where we left off in part one, welcome back, Malcolm.
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Thank you.
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We were somewhere in the middle of the late 1990s.
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You were talking about Lee Iacocca, electric bicycles, all sorts of stuff
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like that, kind of leading up to the founding of visionary vehicles.
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Talk us through this, how and why did you start another car company?
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Well, this time I went around the world looking for a car company that would
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do exactly like I told them I would buy a hundred percent of their production
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with letters of credit and their job was only to do what I told them.
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Meaning, go to Pininfarina and Bertone for design, go to ABL for
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their engines, and let me approve the design that we're willing to buy.
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So I was going to find a factory that was going to do everything
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I want, and for that they were going to have no responsibility.
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Just build a good quality car, and I was going to pay four letters of credit.
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I went all over the world, and one of my sons, who's a filmmaker,
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Live with me for four years.
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He went everywhere I went and filmed every meeting I had during those four years.
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And we had a group that edited in the company, and we sent out what I
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was doing to their potential dealers.
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Until we found China.
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And I found somebody at Cherry who said, I love it.
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Now, a little history of Cherry.
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When we got there, they had a brand new factory, but they had built
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their factory without asking the central government for a permit.
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They got away with it because there were people in the province who were
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a part of the government old timers, and they had a lot of respect, so
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they sort of got away with it, sort of got away means they were punished.
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They had to give 20 percent of their stock to SAIC.
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SAIC was a definite owned by the government and had Volkswagen and
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General Motors as two of their partners.
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And they had to give 20 percent of the stock and the company
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was called SAIC charity.
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That was their penalty.
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We came there.
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We made a deal.
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The deal had two parts in it.
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We were redefining the price of luxury.
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We were going to build a car that looks like, feels like, and was a
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35, 000 car, but we were going to sell it for 20, 000 to 25, 000.
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Everybody was going to make money on it.
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Instead of a cheap Chinese car.
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Listen, a beautiful design doesn't cost you one penny more than a ugly design.
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It's just not the way they sell cars.
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Vanilla is under 30 and it goes up a little bit better as it goes up in price.
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We said to hell with that.
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We're going to give you a great coming in.
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Everything, no excuse.
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They loved it.
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They loved it so much that when we did our publicity in China, the central
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government loved that so much that SAIC gave back their 20 percent, it
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was now just called Cherry, and Mr.
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Yin won man of the year.
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We have him on film saying, oh my god, it was Mr.
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Bricklin who did this, we went from the bastard tile to the
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favorite song blah blah blah, and bragged and bragged and bragged.
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We brought our dealers to China in groups, they met with the people, they
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talked with the people, they saw the factory, they saw what we were building,
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they already had put in the AVL factory for the building of the engines,
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they were doing everything we said.
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One of the paragraphs that was in the contract, that delayed us by about two
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months because I refused to change a word, and they were having a problem putting it
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in like I said, and it said the following.
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This paragraph is not negotiable.
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It cannot be changed.
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It is part of our total understanding that you do not ask visionary vehicles
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to invest in a factory in China.
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I am in the import business.
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I am in selling cars, designing cars.
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I am not in building cars.
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They got it.
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All right.
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Fast forward, we are now going out and talking to dealers and in order to get
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a territory, a nice size territory, they had to buy $2 million worth of stock in
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our company and a $3 billion valuation.
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What we had was a contract period that you could verify by going to China with us,
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we had $157 million in escrow in the bank.
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When I got notified by Cherry, they wanted 200 million for a factory in China.
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I told them, read the paragraph.
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They said, we never read it.
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We're not doing anything.
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We're just not going to do anything until you give it to us.
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We're not breaking any contracts.
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I said, you understand the reason?
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If I have to raise 200 million outside of the dealer's money,
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I have to give away control.
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There's no way in God's earth I am going to stay when somebody who
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knows less than me is in charge because they put up the money.
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That's the price you're going to pay.
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And believe me, that's a serious price because it's not going to be a success.
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That simple.
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No, they want their 200 million.
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So I said, okay.
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And the first person that agreed to give me my 200 million was George Soros.
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Oh, my goodness.
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Not my favorite person.
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I was a little nervous taking his 200 million.
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But they put it in the escrow.
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They wanted 60 days of due diligence.
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We agreed.
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And then we were all going to meet in Hong Kong when that was over.
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And each one of us would either say we're going forward or we're not.
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And so we met after 60 days in Hong Kong, and everybody said we're moving forward.
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Everybody was excited, except me.
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Friday, Saturday, Sunday, comes Monday, I am in Soros's office in New York
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to talk about what they would like to do next before the money goes live.
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And Jonathan Soros, son of, comes out with his little troop and says,
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uh, we decided not to go forward.
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Now, that was four days before they had met in Hong Kong and
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said, we're going forward.
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I said, would you mind telling me what happened?
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No.
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Okay.
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They said, oh, we're leaving the money in escrow.
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When you replace it, we'll take it out.
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Now, that was pretty scary because George Soros and I are not buddies.
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That's number one.
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And that's his not normal style of doing business.
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If he's finished, he's finished.
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Give me my money and I'll see you later.
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For him to leave it in there made me extremely nervous.
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Something of course happened, except that we don't know what it is.
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We finally found out under deposition when we sued everybody,
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which was my second dumbest move, even though we won everywhere.
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That money went to attorneys and went to expenses for a 10 year
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suit in every country known to man.
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But remember, we had films on every single meeting we had.
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There was no argument.
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There was no defense.
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We said you did it.
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And here's you saying it.
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End of story.
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All right.
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What we had to do is go through all the baloney that lawyers make over a
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period of years that just cost money.
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We found out that they had made a deal with Cherry.
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Brooklyn doesn't get the money, you know, we'll take over.
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All right.
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So now I have to find another 200 million.
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So I get introduced to the Afar brothers.
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Afar brothers, richest family in Israel.
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If not the number one, number two.
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Daddy came there when they, Israel just starting and got
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the license for everything.
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For oil, for shipping, for you name it.
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And the geniuses, Made a lot of money by having a monopoly on everything and
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they were not well liked in Israel.
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That being said, they sent in an ex executive vice president of
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Volkswagen who had a very bland career.
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Nothing good, nothing bad, just, it was there.
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And he came in to do his due diligence for them.
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And we filmed everything, of course.
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And we made them sign everything, of course.
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Oh, don't worry, these are honorable people.
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I said, we don't care.
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You're going to sign everything.
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You're going to say everything on film.
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Under no circumstance, when we introduce you, no matter what the issue says,
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if we don't do business, you don't do business with them for five years.
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Selling Mickey Mouse watches, you don't do business with them.
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Oh, no problem.
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No problem.
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Okay, no problem.
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So now we fast forward, they're doing their due diligence, everybody's
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happy, they're all excited about it.
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The Alford brothers are going to fly in on their airplane to China, and
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we're going to have the big meeting with the executives of Terry for
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some reason in my 65 years in the car business, this is the only time I said
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to myself, don't be at that meeting.
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Wow.
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That is an impossible scenario.
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For me not to be at the much less important meetings to be like that,
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that's not even a consideration normally.
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But my gut said don't be there.
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So I had my vice chairman who was a shipping magnate who arranged all
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our shipping, who was investor in the company, who they loved because
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of the shipping and his knowledge.
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And he went and about four other of our staff went.
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Top guys.
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And in the meeting, the offers said to Jerry, why would you
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have to deal with the brick home?
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Why don't we just go to the right?
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They said, yeah.
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And my guy gets up going, why are you out of your mind?
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We spent 30 million.
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We have all this, you're out of your mouth.
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And you know, you can't break the car.
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And he says to him, come with me.
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And he takes them.
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Don't worry about it.
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We'll take care of you.
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Now, his choices were, do I lose my money because they're going
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to fuck us, or do I not lose my money and find a way to touch him?
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So he chose to calm down, which I think was a smart thing for him to do.
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There's nothing more he could have done no matter what.
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And they started offering us all sorts of deals, which were just totally stupid.
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That was the end of it.
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And then after about six months, I decided I couldn't take it any longer.
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I had a suit everywhere, in Hong Kong, in Detroit, you name it.
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And what I found was the justice system in this world truly sucks.
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Truly, truly sucks.
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I was once told something by a very wise man when I was much younger.
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He said, Malcolm, if you're in the right, don't sue.
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You could lose.
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But if you're not, go ahead and sue.
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You might win.
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And that's basically where the justice system is.
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We sued the Israelis in New York, because that's where we held all our meetings,
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and that's where our offices were.
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And we had all the film to prove it.
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And we got venue in New York.
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They had the most expensive lawyers in New York City.
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And for a year, we passed back and forth papers.
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That the judge asked for, that they asked for, that we asked for, and we had venue.
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We were waiting for about a week or two, and we were going to have
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our jury trial started, and we were going to just win billions.
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Not maybe, positively, or at least hundreds of millions.
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We really lost a fortune, proven by the dealers that signed up already,
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and what they were going to order, and what that meant in profit.
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Two weeks before we're ready to go to court, we get an announcement that the
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other side, the Offer Brothers, have added another law firm to their law firms.
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They didn't get rid of the older one, they added.
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This particular law firm was a one man law firm.
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That one man law firm took the judge out for lunch and the next day we lost venue.
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That's impossible.
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That's impossible.
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That's an outright, no question, bribe or threat of some kind.
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Yep.
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And that was the end of it.
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We couldn't sue anywhere in the United States because of that judge's
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ruling after one year having met you and it being ready for a court case.
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What a surprise.
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You were probably winning.
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And the other side couldn't stand that, so they played dirty pool.
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Oh no, of course nobody ever fought us.
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There was no such thing as we were losing.
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How could we?
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We said they did this, and we showed them a film.
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There they are doing it.
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Right.
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Here's what they said.
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Here's the film doing it.
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Here's what we said.
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Here's the film doing it.
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But those guys couldn't stand losing.
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It was a cut and dry.
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There was never any argument on the other side.
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So now you find yourself in the early 2000s with the name
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of a company, but no car.
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So where do you go from here?
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Visionary Vehicles was a company that was going to do what I had already
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done five times before, but this time not find a car that they were
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building, find a company that would build the car I want them to build.
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That was a major difference.
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And it took me four years to find this company.
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I went everywhere.
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I talked to everybody.
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I got films as a chairman and board of Europe and a
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meeting in Switzerland with us.
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You name it.
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I was there.
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Tata in India.
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I went everywhere.
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So then let's dive into the birth of the 3EV.
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Cause in part one of your story, you talked about how you
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got to ride an early EV car.
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You were familiar with Dr.
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Curry, who designed the EV one, things like that.
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And you didn't think there was a future in that.
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And obviously there were issues even with the electric bikes, as you
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mentioned in the first part of the story.
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So now you've turned your attention to the EV world.
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Because lithium ion batteries had come to the forefront.
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Up to then the batteries were nickel metal hydride or lead acid.
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That's what the difference was, and I saw it coming, even though I thought
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hybrids were the only thing that made sense, with the lack of charging stations
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and the lack of five minute charges.
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The only one that agreed with me and stuck to his guns as
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long as he could was Toyota.
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So I played with fuel cells.
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I played with everything, except the Postal Laboratory.
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Trying to find what it was, and then came down real simple.
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If I could give them gorgeous at a great price, I would.
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That's the only thing everybody was not doing.
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And that's how the three wheeler got there, when I got desperate
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and said, How much weight do you save if you take one wheel off?
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I expected a couple of hundred pounds.
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It's 1, 500 pounds with all the things that adjust to that one wheel.
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And that was half the kilowatts.
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So let's expand upon that for a second to get a little technical.
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So eliminating a wheel saved 1, 500 pounds.
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How much does the vehicle weigh in total?
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Our vehicle, when it's in production, because remember things
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were made by hand and I put it.
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Pieces of steel that won't be there, et cetera, et cetera.
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Our car will weigh about 2, 200 pounds.
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The average car weighs with that battery about 3, 600 pounds.
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Malcolm, what I'm wondering about, you got three wheels, 2, 200 pounds.
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That is a lightweight car.
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Now I live in Texas.
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I live in the land of, you know, big trucks and scary drivers.
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I think about a 2, 200 pound three wheel car going toe to
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toe with a big F three 50.
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And I think.
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Where's the safety in that?
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Number one is the size of a regular car.
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It also is the widest you can make a car 80 inches wide.
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So I have a wide front end.
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I got 800 pounds of batteries on the floor.
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It is the safest car you will ever drive.
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It handles.
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Unbelievable.
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It does not bend in a curve.
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It stays flat.
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It's unreal.
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So we made it and we did not have that big ass wheel in the back sticking
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up like they do in a three wheel car.
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I mean, it's like they designed the front end and then they give you a wheel.
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Yeah, like a Polaris slingshot.
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We have to tell people it's a three wheel car, but the truth is nobody gives a damn.
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They just see something that is extremely exciting, that is
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way out of their price range.
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That is not way out of their price range.
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And that is such a phenomenal piece of information that the
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people who look at this car, who start off with it, just beautiful.
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And they want to know about it because they can't possibly own it.
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And then when they guess the price and the average is 115, 000 guests,
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and we tell somebody it's 29, 000.
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It's like, how fast can I get money out of my pocket to
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make sure I get a reservation?
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I want one.
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This is not a car you need.
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This is a car you'll want.
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It's a 2200 pounds.
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What's the body?
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Fiberglass?
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Right now it is, but it's going to be hemp.
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You're building a hemp.
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No kidding.
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Well, it's 10 times stronger than steel and it's light as hell.
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And I can get three growth.
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Harvest a year.
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Yeah, you're taking the Ford approach.
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They played with it.
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And of course, Henry played with it for sure.
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But it's gotten a lot better since then.
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Is the chassis, the frame, everything is hemp?
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Or just the body?
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No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
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We first are starting from building everything I can to make
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it the safest car in the world.
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Now, I heard a rumor.
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Don't know how true this is, so correct me if I'm wrong.
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You've got some sort of fancy seatbelt situation going on in that car.
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Once upon a time, I owned the Phoenix International Raceway.
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It was on wide motorsports twice a year.
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So the Andretti's and the Answers, those are the people who raced in the speedway.
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And I got to know a whole bunch about racing.
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And I saw that harness belts were kept a lot of people safe
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in incredible kinds of accidents.
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So I wanted to put harness belts in.
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I wanted to do that in the original Brooklyn 50 years ago, but I couldn't
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because the law says you put the strap in that you see in every car.
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That's the way it is.
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That's what you put in.
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I couldn't put it in the harness belt, even though it's better.
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You put it in that way or go change the law.
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Well, I got a three wheel car, so I can put whatever I want in there.
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So I started with the harness belt.
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I'm putting in the harness belt.
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Why?
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I got kids and grandkids.
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I'm going to drive the car.
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That's why I'm with Sandy Monroe and I'm talking about the car and talking
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about him getting involved in that and he said, Oh, you can't use the harness belt
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and I'm ready to give him an argument why I'm going to use it and he says,
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I designed the belt for the airlines.
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Really, it brings out the belt and all it is, is a belt, a regular
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seatbelt, and you'll see on the airlines now in the newer airplanes.
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I've already been on the airplanes and seen them.
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One side is about an inch thick, and when the airbag goes out that's in
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that seatbelt, it goes up and down.
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So it's a full body airbag.
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How cool is that?
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No in your face from the steering wheel.
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This is perfect.
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That's what I'm going to use.
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But if I put one more wheel on that car, I can't use it.
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And why is that?
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Because this is a three wheel car.
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It's called a motorcycle or an auto cycle.
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So you don't have to meet very many rules.
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You have a seatbelt on a motorcycle.
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I get it.
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I'm curious, who is this car targeted for?
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Who's the audience of a two seater with scissor doors and three wheels?
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Everybody.
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Anybody.
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Who wants to own cool for a really great price is our customer.
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A Lamborghini guy was right next to me at a light.
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He started yelling at me.
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So I pushed the button and the window goes down and said, can I help you?
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Yeah.
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Oh my God.
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That's gorgeous.
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What is it?
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And then we turned the light on the back cause the name changes colors on the back.
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And we said, I said, so what do you think it should sell for?
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Oh, I don't know.
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300, 000.
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Oh yeah.
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What would you say for 29, 000?
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I want 10 of them right now.
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This is a beautiful car.
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My judgment on if it's beautiful is if I keep on wanting to look at it and I'm
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sure as hell no, it is always outstanding.
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The interior is beyond belief.
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It makes you feel rich and there's stuff in there you've never
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seen before in any interior.
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That being said, it drives unbelievable.
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It takes corner without leaning.
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It's just.
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Amazing.
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And it's faster than hell.
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So all that put together is something that 90 percent of the people
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cannot afford what that represents.
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That's an expensive car that you've got to be rich to own, except you don't.
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And that difference gets everybody who sees it, whether they're interested in
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another car, whether they can afford another car, they don't give a damn if
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it's electric, they don't give a damn if it's three wheels, they want that car.
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That's all.
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And that's what we built it for.
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I'm intrigued.
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There's definitely precedent for a three wheel car.
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Forget three wheel.
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It's not a three wheel car.
19:52
It's a gorgeous car that's out of everybody's price range except it's not.
19:57
That's all it is.
19:58
Forget about everything else about it.
19:59
How it got there is not important.
20:01
Nobody gives a damn.
20:03
This is a Bricklin vehicle.
20:05
It doesn't look like, it doesn't smell like, it doesn't feel like.
20:08
This is an exotic car.
20:10
This is a car of your dreams that you can now afford.
20:14
Holy moly, that's it.
20:16
One thing I'm curious about, and this might be a dumb question.
20:18
The rear tire on the EV3, how do you change that thing?
20:22
It's a bitch.
20:23
Yeah, okay.
20:24
So is it like a motorcycle where you've got two pieces of frame?
20:28
It's worse than that.
20:29
No, no, let me give you worse than that.
20:31
I got two front tires that are a different size than the back tire.
20:34
So if I needed to put in a spare tire, I'd have to put in two spare tires.
20:39
So I'm not putting in a spare tire.
20:41
And what I'm doing is looking around to find anybody who's building
20:45
a tire that never gets flat.
20:47
Not the 50 mile top.
20:49
I'll never get flat tire because if they don't have it, I'm going to sponsor.
20:52
I don't ever want to fix the tire.
20:54
What about using a run flat?
20:56
Is that what you've got on there?
20:56
You're going to use a run flat.
20:58
No, no, no, but I want better than just the run flat.
21:00
I want a tire that never gets flat.
21:02
Yeah I think he's talking about like those solid core tires like they
21:06
use on agricultural equipment solid.
21:08
Yeah That number one, number two, I want to electrify the doors because
21:12
they're a pain in the ass for, I think a lot of people to pick up and lower.
21:16
I enjoy them, but I don't think there'll be a lot of people that will have
21:19
the same joy that I have in there.
21:21
And then I need a soundproof the car because what we do is
21:24
we hear the tire noise that goes through the two holes where they.
21:30
Big hinges that anchor the door.
21:32
So it's just too noisy for me.
21:33
That's your prototype car.
21:35
Your production car will be a lot quieter, I'm sure.
21:37
No, no, no.
21:37
Not a lot quieter.
21:38
It's going to be.
21:42
As he mouths the quietest.
21:43
Yeah, that good.
21:45
What's the range on this?
21:46
It weighs 2200 pounds.
21:47
It weighs nothing.
21:48
You have a full size battery going on in there.
21:51
The range must be pretty serious.
21:53
60 kilowatts.
21:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it gets 350.
21:56
350.
21:57
Out of 16 kilowatt hours, that's really, really good because that's
22:01
about a half a, that's about a half a gallon of gas equivalent.
22:05
And as an example, my wife's Pacifica Hybrid, it only gets.
22:09
36 miles or so on a full charge.
22:12
Wow.
22:13
Something's wrong.
22:13
It's a 5, 000 pound van.
22:15
Oh, that's what's wrong.
22:16
Yeah.
22:18
Malcolm, your battery, what does that compare to?
22:21
I mean, is that like a Tesla size battery?
22:23
Is it smaller?
22:23
Is it, what are we talking about here?
22:25
It's bigger than Tesla.
22:27
Because everybody is not as advanced as Tesla is, and it's actually LG.
22:31
Oh, no kidding.
22:32
Well, wait, there's a but.
22:35
We are now talking to various people about building our car, because
22:39
I do not want to build our car.
22:41
And whoever we use will have their own platform, whether it's Foxconn,
22:47
or anybody else of the 14 different companies we found around the world,
22:52
including in the United States, who will build cars for other people.
22:55
Electric cars, we're talking about.
22:56
Magna, I mean to name some of the big names in the game.
23:00
They all have skateboards, so whoever manufactures it, we have to re-engineer to
23:04
match the skateboard that they got, which is not gonna be a big deal, but it is
23:08
something that has to be done and whatever battery we're using now, will probably not
23:13
be the same battery, which I don't care.
23:15
But I have looked at, as everybody who's in the electric vehicle business
23:20
has, and they know there are two glaring facts that cannot be ignored.
23:24
Numero uno, there is not enough electricity.
23:28
to handle all these cars charging, no matter what anybody says.
23:32
And they can't get more electricity as fast as you need.
23:35
There are no five minute charges, which makes this an adventure every
23:40
goddamn time you want to charge the car.
23:42
There's not enough charging stations by two million.
23:45
Forget about your garage.
23:46
If you got a garage, you can buy the car.
23:48
As long as you're not planning on going big trips.
23:50
And why?
23:51
You may have enough miles to go to a big trip, but at the end of that
23:54
trip, you're talking about Four or five hours for 99 percent of the
23:58
chargers that are already out there.
24:00
So you got to go, go to sleep someplace.
24:02
You got to go eat someplace to get the damn car charged.
24:05
So you can go back.
24:06
Oh, that really turns me on big time.
24:09
I got to experience it.
24:10
I'm in a rental home.
24:11
They got 220 in the house, but not the one that fits the plug for the charger.
24:16
So that meant I'm out there testing the car.
24:18
I got to go charge it and have my wife pick me up or sit in
24:23
the car for a couple hours.
24:25
What a wonderful way to hate your car.
24:28
I hated my car.
24:29
I was ready to trash it until I got somebody to come over and got permission
24:33
from the owner to put 220 outlet that fits my thing on the outside of the garage.
24:39
And every time I come home, I just plug it in.
24:41
That's the only way to own an electric car.
24:43
What a stupid thing that is.
24:44
And when you have the millions of cars coming from the half a trillion
24:50
dollars that had been invested by all the car companies, producing 300
24:55
different models, you are going to find a lot of people hate their car.
25:00
After they own it for the first week and realize that you're consumed by where the
25:05
hell you charge this car 24 hours a day.
25:08
So why aren't we making a shift then in the paradigm here to push EVs towards
25:13
delivery, transit, mass transit, vehicles that currently now are either diesel
25:19
or gas that just sit idling all day long, rather than foisting this upon
25:24
the consumer market that needs to get around with basically unlimited range.
25:28
That would have been very smart.
25:29
You said would have been past tense.
25:32
But oh, it's way too late.
25:33
Everybody's going down that road.
25:34
They're going off the cliff no matter what.
25:36
Nobody's going to stop them.
25:37
Except I refuse to accept that I am going into a stupid situation.
25:43
I'll sell all my cars.
25:44
I ain't got no problem with that.
25:45
But this is a dumb industry, the way it's all going.
25:48
And people are going to fail big time.
25:49
There's nothing to stop them.
25:51
They're throwing away combustion cars and all those assets and all those sales.
25:55
So the way I am, I can't stand for things that don't make sense.
26:00
So I start anytime somebody called me up with any technology that would
26:04
either make a five minute charge or something else that could make sense,
26:08
I went and looked at it and never found what I was looking for until I did.
26:13
So do you see the market coming back full circle?
26:16
Like will ice power plants make a resurgence?
26:19
With what I have, every car company in the world will continue making
26:24
the cars they're making now.
26:26
It will cost them a little less, but they will have something that takes
26:29
three minutes to fill up your tank.
26:31
The tank will go about 3, 000 miles before it needs to have
26:35
another three minute refill.
26:37
And our dealers can go to their house or their business and fill them up.
26:41
Anytime they want for a 10 subscription, it sounds like you're not on board
26:46
with the electrification of cars.
26:47
I'm not on board with that.
26:49
It's ready for all the amount of vehicles that they're going to pour into
26:53
the market That's what i'm not on the board for now that being said toyota.
26:57
He's the only one right?
26:58
Yeah, toyota and bmw They're going hydrogen.
27:01
They like that idea.
27:01
Have you thought about?
27:03
Doing that with the EV3.
27:04
Their hydrogen is primitive.
27:06
It's all going through fuel cells.
27:07
Did you think about this for the EV3?
27:10
We will build a four wheel car that will look very similar to our
27:14
three wheel car and it will run on something that nobody ever imagined.
27:19
It already does.
27:20
It's not a matter of conversation.
27:22
It's a matter of it works.
27:24
Okay.
27:24
And it's readily available and nothing could be cleaner in the universe.
27:29
So let's shift gears.
27:31
What I've been curious about, and you mentioned it just briefly,
27:34
is the dealership network.
27:36
How is that working out?
27:37
Who is going to sell these cars?
27:39
Let's say this.
27:40
I want to buy one of your cars.
27:41
Where do I go?
27:42
How do I do this?
27:43
What do I do?
27:43
First of all, my history, whether it be Subaru, Pininfarina, Bertone,
27:48
Yugo, whatever it is, Modis Operandi was set up as a distributor.
27:52
Case of Subaru, 14 of them.
27:53
By stocking the company, they therefore give cash.
27:56
They set up dealers, the dealers buy stock in the company.
27:59
So everybody has a reason to be successful besides just selling the car.
28:03
And in every single situation, they all made money on that.
28:06
So I set up the dealers and I set up the distributors and it always
28:10
worked and I have thousands of people.
28:12
Who the fathers I did business with a retired, but the kids are still working
28:17
and the kids all know the name and the car is something that they know they'll
28:21
sell every single one they can get and they know they can bring in traffic
28:24
and sell all the other stuff they got.
28:26
And we encourage that kind of thing soon as we decide on who's
28:29
going to manufacture it, then we will sign up our 10 distributors.
28:33
And they will sign up 50 dealers each in their areas.
28:35
Now, why do the dealers do the things that I want them to do?
28:40
Because we treat them one with respect.
28:42
Because we really respect them.
28:44
We really know you need service.
28:45
We really know you need people.
28:47
No matter how much you can sell on the internet, it gets to a point people would
28:51
like to touch the car before they buy it.
28:53
They would like to drive the car before they buy it.
28:55
And they would like to know they're going to get service tomorrow
28:58
if it breaks down tomorrow.
28:59
Not two months from now they'll get an appointment.
29:02
So all these people selling on the internet have a good time, wait till
29:05
the numbers get big, and they find about what people do when they love
29:08
a car and they can't get it serviced.
29:10
They start hating, and they go with venom, and the more they like the car, the more
29:16
venom they come when they can't have it.
29:17
And that's going to start happening to Mr.
29:19
Musk, who has the money and the brains to figure it out,
29:23
but he better figure it out.
29:24
So what are your thoughts on the future?
29:27
of Tesla.
29:28
Do you think they will be absorbed into one of the other
29:31
larger companies later on?
29:33
Or do you see them being around perpetually?
29:36
Tesla is a success because of Musk.
29:38
The rest of the companies are not a success because they don't have a Mr.
29:42
Musk.
29:43
They have all the people over here in that building that
29:47
come from combustion engines.
29:48
And they're having to tell people who have an all different outlook
29:52
on the world and the technology.
29:54
They're not in charge.
29:55
These people over here are in charge.
29:57
And these people over here are used to taking forever to make decisions.
30:01
So they don't make the wrong decision.
30:03
Well, you're going into a market where everybody's moving too fast down the road.
30:07
And they're just like a bunch of sheep going off the other end.
30:10
It doesn't work.
30:11
It just doesn't work.
30:12
Nothing about it works.
30:13
If EVs work, all the guys that are sitting in the offices get fired.
30:18
If it doesn't work, everybody gets fired.
30:20
What a great position to be in.
30:21
I'll make you a bet that Mary Barra and everybody else who is CEOs of
30:26
these car companies, sometimes around 2030 take retirement right before
30:31
the shit really hits the fan watch.
30:33
It's not like we know it and nobody knows it.
30:35
Everybody knows everything I'm saying.
30:37
So there's an argument to be made about the majors, the Toyotas and the
30:41
Volkswagen's and the Fords of the world.
30:42
They know how to build quality cars.
30:44
They've been building them for a hundred plus years.
30:46
No, no, the Mustang cars.
30:48
They know how to build combustion cars.
30:50
Let's delete the powertrain from the equation altogether.
30:53
It's not the powertrain, it's everything.
30:55
In electric, it's only the powertrain.
30:58
Right.
30:59
But do you see a future where Tesla says, I stopped building a car, this
31:03
object, and sell the drivetrains?
31:06
To the Toyotas and the Fords and the VWs of the world.
31:09
And now it's a marriage of the two, right?
31:11
The fast moving technology with people that know how to build quality vehicles.
31:15
I'm telling you, the people who build cars come from combustion.
31:20
It's a different game in electric.
31:22
It's a whole different game in electric.
31:25
And their electric is moving from whatever the hell they invested in today.
31:30
Two years from now, they're going to have to start changing because it's
31:32
going to be a better technology.
31:34
And then they're going to be, oh, I don't know, I got too much invested over here.
31:37
And then, oh my God, wait till you see what's going to happen with that nonsense.
31:41
All right, I'm telling you, it's upside down, but with what I have found, they
31:46
will be able to keep their factories open.
31:48
They will be able to keep building the cars they're building, and it'll
31:52
actually cost them a little less.
31:54
And those cars will be cleaner than the electric, so they'll have both to sell.
31:59
Electric over here, and this over here, that's a three minute fill
32:03
your tank whenever they want.
32:05
So do you see the R& D that Porsche is doing as a threat to that with their
32:09
synthetic fuels that they've been working on to keep ICE cars on the road?
32:13
All the crap they're working on are kindergarten compared to what we got.
32:16
I promise you, I promise you, it's something that nobody ever
32:20
heard of before, but yet it's everything everybody knows about.
32:23
It's crazy.
32:24
At first they were scared to show the world at all, so they decided
32:27
to use it, and they're using it now to build a utility running on
32:31
it, and we're going to be using it for vehicles in the United States.
32:34
I can see Eric is thinking about where is he going with this?
32:37
What's he going to make it power by?
32:38
Malcolm, Who's going to build the, you're looking for somebody to build the car.
32:42
It'll be built here in America.
32:44
We're talking to two people that I can't disclose yet.
32:46
In Michigan.
32:47
Will it be built in America?
32:49
Canada?
32:49
Mexico?
32:50
In America.
32:51
I read somewhere or heard somewhere you're looking to make sure
32:54
that it's a veteran workforce.
32:56
Is that true?
32:56
Or is that falling to the wayside?
32:57
It will be heavily veteran.
32:59
Yes.
33:00
And we have people who, like Tom Ridge, who was Secretary of Homeland
33:04
Security, happens to be president of the Wounded Veterans of America.
33:08
Paul Buca was a Medal of Honor winner, and he was military
33:11
advisor for Bush and Obama.
33:13
Ken Fisher, the Fisher Houses, all those guys are involved in our company, and
33:18
they are involved because they like the fact that we like To have veterans be
33:22
building our cars as much as we can get.
33:24
Why?
33:25
Because these people are dedicated.
33:26
When they do something they love and get paid really well, you got
33:29
people who are going to build it with love instead of just going to work.
33:33
And that's what I want.
33:34
Who is helping you on the backside?
33:35
Engineering, R& D, et cetera.
33:37
Is that all coming from the mind of Malcolm?
33:39
Oh, no, no, no.
33:39
Forget me.
33:40
I don't know anything about cars.
33:42
I know everything about the car industry, but when it comes to technical, I listen,
33:46
but I have people who are better than me that makes decisions on it for me.
33:50
We have found a way to get the benefit of other people's work.
33:53
Like, for instance, do you know how many engineers that are
33:56
hired to do the platform to get the batteries and the motors and
34:00
everything else in the car connected?
34:02
We don't have one of them.
34:04
We buy the whole thing and go bump.
34:07
So history sometimes tends to repeat itself, and you find yourself
34:11
again crossing paths with the name.
34:13
DeLorean.
34:14
Any thoughts on the new car?
34:16
Oh, absolutely.
34:17
First of all, John and I were old friends before he died.
34:20
John was going to be my president.
34:21
I think I told you that story.
34:23
His daughter called me up and said, Dad told me before he died
34:27
that I ought to meet with you.
34:28
He did him lots of favors.
34:29
I said, absolutely, be happy to.
34:31
We came out, we had lunch, and now we communicate.
34:34
She's really after knowing everything about daddy and building
34:37
a car or doing something for him.
34:40
Whatever it is, she's out there to do it for John, her daddy.
34:44
Obviously, you've seen the new design.
34:45
What do you think of the DNG?
34:46
Uh, I don't know that that's her.
34:49
There's two other people that are building cars that both say
34:52
they have DeLorean's rights.
34:54
And I asked her about that and she mumbled something.
34:57
I think she just doesn't want to deal with the facts.
34:59
But somebody has bought it and somebody thinks they own it.
35:02
God bless them.
35:03
The one I saw, I thought was beautiful.
35:05
Do you think Kat's going to be able to build the car?
35:07
Who cares?
35:07
It's a 175, 000 car.
35:09
So if you, DeLorean people will buy it.
35:11
God bless them.
35:12
I think there's still room for more supercars in this world.
35:15
I'm all in favor of something else to look at on the road, you know?
35:18
Oh, I agree.
35:19
I agree, and it would be nice if everybody started making a pretty car
35:22
anyhow, but it's not their sales pitch.
35:25
Too bad.
35:25
Now we've gotten to the point where only one design cheats the wind.
35:29
You just put a different badge on the front of it, right?
35:31
So I don't get it.
35:32
They're still going to have the same problem.
35:34
You got to charge that car every single day.
35:37
It's a different kind of animal.
35:38
All of a sudden, that animal becomes part of your life, and I don't
35:41
want my car to be part of my life.
35:43
I'm buying it, but they're not intruded, and that car does.
35:46
In your car, the EV3, you don't have to charge it every single day.
35:49
I do charge it every single day.
35:51
I would dare not charge it.
35:52
When it pulls into my house, a charger goes in the damn thing.
35:55
When yours is in production, isn't that what you were saying?
35:58
It's going to be powered by something very, very different
36:00
that you won't have to charge?
36:01
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
36:04
The EV3 is an electric car.
36:06
When we do the next thing, it'll be a four wheel car.
36:08
The four wheel car.
36:09
Okay.
36:10
Same look, same body.
36:11
That I learned.
36:12
When it's a four wheel car, it'll be four seats, not two seats.
36:16
It'll have all wheel drive.
36:17
We've talked about the 3EV.
36:18
We've talked about, let's call it the 4EV, or the four wheeled Bricklin
36:22
that will be coming out after that.
36:24
But the bigger question is, at 84 years young, what's next for Malcolm Bricklin?
36:29
You're a forward thinking guy.
36:31
You never stop moving.
36:32
What's next?
36:33
The stuff I'm talking about is next.
36:36
The stuff I'm talking about will change the world as we know it.
36:39
We will be able to clean up the world without being abusive, without
36:42
making stupid rules, without pushing everybody down an industry that
36:46
doesn't make a lot of sense yet.
36:48
And it can be used everywhere for everything.
36:50
And it's a hundred percent clean.
36:54
And it doesn't need any special anything but a pump.
36:58
So I can deliver it to your house with a pump on the back of a truck and a
37:01
subscription agreement without a problem.
37:04
Picture.
37:04
Hydrogen that comes from water and put into a turbine, and out
37:10
comes something that you would call hydrogen, but doesn't have two cells.
37:15
It has one, and it's not on anybody's chart.
37:18
They call it a hydrogen, but it's apparently something
37:21
new, and here's why it's new.
37:22
It's combustible in a combustion engine, but it's not volatile.
37:26
It doesn't go boom.
37:26
In fact, if you pour it on the ground and you throw a match in, it doesn't light.
37:30
And it is supposed to get between 100 and 150 miles per gallon, which will
37:35
cost retail about seven or eight dollars.
37:38
So liquid hydrogen at room temperature, it can go into every
37:41
gas pump, every gas station, put in one pump and can have it at dealers.
37:46
And you can take your combustion car and convert it.
37:49
So the 289 million used cars out there, my dealers can start converting to hydrogen.
37:56
I like the chemical properties of that because it's as safe
37:59
as diesel in that same respect.
38:00
It's not volatile.
38:01
You could throw a match of diesel, it won't light, but only under
38:04
compression does it combust.
38:06
So this is really cool as an alternative fuel.
38:08
And you can pour it on yourself and you can stick your hand in it, which
38:11
I have, and you feel the energy.
38:13
You feel it.
38:14
It's amazing.
38:15
Truly amazing.
38:16
And all that comes out of course is paper.
38:18
And I promise you, when you see the four wheeler and you see what it's all
38:22
about, it'll be the first car on your list you're going to want to have.
38:25
That's a car I want to have.
38:27
That's a car that you brag about the fuel, it doesn't control you.
38:31
And that's the most important part of this whole damn thing.
38:35
That's what I was looking for, and I found it, and I couldn't imagine.
38:38
I never thought that that's what I would find.
38:41
Because I played with hydrogen for two years with TREPA Pulsar
38:44
Laboratory, and I nixed it.
38:46
Because the gas goes boom.
38:47
And the fluid...
38:49
And the liquid has to be stored at minus 450 degrees, not too
38:53
cool, either one, in my opinion.
38:56
So when I heard this was hydrogen, I almost didn't want to go see it.
38:59
So there again, sometimes when you think you know too much, you can
39:02
lose an opportunity because this was something just totally different.
39:06
It's not on anybody's charts.
39:08
And everybody else that's playing with hydrogen is playing in kindergarten.
39:11
The one thing I wondered, carrying back from part one, is, would
39:15
this be an opportune time to bring back the Bricklin Turner engine?
39:19
Yes, I am.
39:21
Wow.
39:21
Well done.
39:22
You're gonna build two of those prototypes.
39:24
One will use the Bricklin Turner hand built engine.
39:27
I'm trying to find the relatives of Frank so that they benefit
39:30
from what I'm about to do.
39:31
But it's a bitch, because there's a million Turners in Texas.
39:35
The law firm we hired had three turners in it, none of them were related.
39:39
Anyhow, hydrogen runs on simple engines.
39:42
You have to take off the catalytic converter, you got to take off all
39:44
the other controls, so it's actually cheaper to build using the same
39:47
combustion engine that you got right now.
39:50
And by giving them the rights, And putting up enough hydrogen places and
39:53
letting them know that the dealers can have the subscription agreement
39:57
and deliver it to anybody who buys a car from them, their place of business
40:00
or whatever, you know, they can do a hundred a day at three minutes
40:03
and they got three hours of travel.
40:04
What a cool thing.
40:05
Best way to have fuel is not to ever think about it.
40:08
Malcolm with 60 plus years in the automotive industry as an entrepreneur,
40:13
as a businessman with all sorts of different listeners tuned into this
40:17
right now, what kind of advice can you give aspiring entrepreneurs or people
40:22
that want to get into this industry or maybe following your footsteps?
40:25
Some lessons learned that you can pass on for the younger generations.
40:28
I think the best lesson learned is what a man by the name of Elon Musk did.
40:31
He and Eberhardt asked to see me 13, 14 years ago.
40:35
So I spent four hours with him.
40:37
I, they were just asking for advice, which Musk actually didn't want to hear.
40:41
He was building a car.
40:42
He was not going to have a dealer network.
40:44
He was going to do it like Apple.
40:45
I tried to explain Apple is a cell phone and a car is not exactly a cell phone.
40:50
That son of a gun came out and did the most remarkable job any
40:54
human being could do in the world.
40:57
And while he was doing that, he was sending rockets up and he was putting
41:01
things in people's brains and he's boring holes underneath the ground.
41:04
The man's a damn genius and he's a stubborn genius.
41:07
And it was his stubbornness and his ability to never give up that got that
41:12
company to be as successful as it is.
41:15
And that's the lack of somebody like that.
41:17
And it's making mincemeat of everybody else who's trying to get into
41:20
business because he makes decisions.
41:23
In the world out there, the goal is never make a decision.
41:27
Don't get blamed for anything.
41:29
I mean, it's a goddamn joke.
41:31
That's all.
41:31
So the moral to the story is...
41:33
Follow what he wanted.
41:35
He wanted to do it and he did it.
41:35
That's the only thing.
41:37
You want to do something, do it.
41:38
I said, that's all there is to it, kid.
41:40
But only do what you really think you love doing.
41:42
You put those three, love it.
41:45
Throughout his career, Malcolm Bricklin has been known for his unconventional
41:48
ideas and his willingness to take risks.
41:51
While his ventures have not always been successful, he has remained a respected
41:55
figure in the automotive industry and a symbol of American entrepreneurship.
41:59
He has also been the subject of numerous books, documentaries, and
42:03
articles chronicling his many successes and setbacks in the business world.
42:07
If you'd like to learn more about Malcolm and keep up with all
42:10
the progress over at Visionary Vehicles, be sure to log on to www.
42:14
vvcars.
42:18
com or follow him on social via LinkedIn or Facebook.
42:23
Malcolm, I would like to be able to get you back on the show and get you back on
42:27
the phone and talk more about progress on the company, how it's coming along.
42:31
Is that possible?
42:32
Of course it is.
42:33
And I promise you, as soon as I'm able to talk, really talk about it, I can't wait.
42:38
Have a great day.
42:38
I've enjoyed it.
42:39
You too.
42:40
Thanks.
42:40
Thank you, sir.
42:41
Okay.
42:41
Thanks, Malcolm.
42:48
If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM,
42:50
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42:54
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42:54
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42:55
You can also find us on Instagram at grandtorymotorsports.
42:58
Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can
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43:10
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43:10
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43:12
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43:15
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