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Ecological Grief and Active Hope in a Changing World with Gwyneth Jones | Holistic Pharmacy Podcast · Pharmacy Podcast Network

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Speaker 1: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
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Speaker 1: to the pharmacy profession. Welcome to the Pharmacy podcast Network.
0:27
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the Holistic Pharmacy Podcast. I'm your host,
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Speaker 2: Marina books of and I'm a functional medicine pharmacist in
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Speaker 2: New York. I'm also a clinical herbalist and an integrative
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Speaker 2: health coach specializing in mindfulness and empowerment. I'm on a
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Speaker 2: mission to transform the way we approach healthcare by bridging
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Speaker 2: the wisdom of traditional medicine with modern practice, and in
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Speaker 2: this podcast, I will be highlighting guests who do just that.
0:57
Speaker 2: I'm constantly inspired by them and I know you will
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Speaker 2: be as well.
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Speaker 3: Hello and welcome back to the Holistic Pharmacy Podcast. I
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Speaker 3: have a very special friend on today. We met back
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Speaker 3: in B school, Marie Folio's v School, and her name
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Speaker 3: is Gwyneth Jones. She guides individuals through the emotional and
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Speaker 3: spiritual journey of confronting the state of our world, drawn
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Speaker 3: upon a diverse toolkit that includes ecotherapy, emotional intelligence, mindfulness,
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Speaker 3: and positive psychology. She's a certified coach and work that
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Speaker 3: Reconnects facilitator, as well as a writer and podcast host
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Speaker 3: on topics relating to our psychological and spiritual response to collapse,
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Speaker 3: ecopsychology and their connection to the web of life and
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Speaker 3: effective change making, so that further Ado Gwyneth Welcome.
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Speaker 4: Hi, I thank you for having me on this podcast.
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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm so pleased to have you on, and I've
2:02
Speaker 3: been following your work over the years. I've been a
2:07
Speaker 3: beta tester for some of your products, including your ebook,
2:11
Speaker 3: which has been really wonderful to kind of just see
2:14
Speaker 3: and watch you grow and develop your message. And as
2:19
Speaker 3: I ask everybody who comes on as a guest on
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Speaker 3: this podcast, I'd love for you to walk us through
2:26
Speaker 3: your humble beginning, so to speak, how your.
2:31
Speaker 5: Essentially your origin story. You know where you came.
2:34
Speaker 3: From and how you developed into this body of work.
2:40
Speaker 3: So we'll just take a step by step. We could
2:42
Speaker 3: just start at the beginning for now.
2:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you and the same to you.
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Speaker 6: Right. I remember back in twenty twenty you gave me
2:50
Speaker 6: some really helpful sessions.
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Speaker 4: Of help advice. So I think we've been watching each other's.
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Speaker 6: Growth journey over the last five years. So yeah, the
3:00
Speaker 6: humble origin story. Oh my gosh, where to start? Well, yeah,
3:05
Speaker 6: I'm learning more and more at the moment that I
3:08
Speaker 6: might be what you call a multi potentialite.
3:11
Speaker 4: I'm always doing.
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Speaker 6: About ten projects at the same time, so it's always
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Speaker 6: a very complicated story with lots of twists and turns.
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Speaker 4: So the simplest version is, you know, I grew up
3:22
Speaker 4: in North Wales.
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Speaker 6: And Welsh and I was always surrounded by beautiful nature,
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Speaker 6: and yeah, when I went off to university and lived
3:35
Speaker 6: in Manchester, it took me a while to realize that
3:38
Speaker 6: something felt different and wrong in my body.
3:42
Speaker 4: Turned out it was not.
3:43
Speaker 6: Being in nature and being in crowded cities, and I
3:47
Speaker 6: think that seed was planted at that point. I actually
3:51
Speaker 6: I studied psychology, but it was hard to find work
3:55
Speaker 6: after university. I graduated in two thousand and nine in
3:58
Speaker 6: the recession, and so I found myself in Japan teaching English.
4:05
Speaker 6: And yeah, so I've had a whole toughle journey going on.
4:09
Speaker 6: On one side, right, that's teaching English as a foreign language.
4:13
Speaker 6: But throughout that I've always been wanting to do a
4:16
Speaker 6: lot more. And big question that kept coming up in
4:19
Speaker 6: my mind was, you know, what are we going to
4:21
Speaker 6: do about climate change? But after this is how my
4:26
Speaker 6: brain works, right, I sit down with a piece of
4:27
Speaker 6: paper and map.
4:28
Speaker 4: Out all the different things.
4:30
Speaker 6: And what I kept coming back to was, you know,
4:34
Speaker 6: it's a psychology issue in terms of not only changing
4:37
Speaker 6: people's behavior an individual level, but you know, why are
4:40
Speaker 6: these politicians so apathetic?
4:42
Speaker 4: Why are the rich, you know, so selfish? Is all psychology.
4:46
Speaker 4: So I was kind of indicated that I was on
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Speaker 4: the right path.
4:50
Speaker 6: But then I had also always wanted to work with
4:53
Speaker 6: helping people in some way, so I'd always, or at
4:56
Speaker 6: least since I was fourteen fifteen, I'd always thought about, yeah,
5:00
Speaker 6: becoming a healer of such sort.
5:02
Speaker 4: I actually I don't know if you know, but I
5:04
Speaker 4: did an Indian head.
5:05
Speaker 6: Massage course when I was also at university on the side,
5:09
Speaker 6: and I started to train in massage. I was planning
5:12
Speaker 6: to kind of have a whole bunch of different holistic
5:14
Speaker 6: therapies to go alongside the talking therapy. That never materialized,
5:20
Speaker 6: but you know, I ended up doing my coaching training
5:25
Speaker 6: throughout this journey. So while teaching English and in fact
5:29
Speaker 6: teaching Welsh later on we're paying my bills, I was, yeah, doing.
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Speaker 4: More and more training, and I lived in Prague for
5:39
Speaker 4: eight years altogether. I've lived in Romania for an nearly a.
5:42
Speaker 6: Year, back and forth in the UK throughout that time.
5:46
Speaker 6: But it was when COVID hit and I was suddenly
5:49
Speaker 6: at home that I felt, right, this is the time
5:52
Speaker 6: to really, you know, put the energy into building this
5:57
Speaker 6: this ethereal business that's been.
5:59
Speaker 4: Going on in my mind for so many years. And
6:02
Speaker 4: so I invested in doing my training.
6:05
Speaker 6: There and as a coach, I trained with six seconds,
6:08
Speaker 6: So the core of it was emotional intelligence. But I
6:12
Speaker 6: was still thinking about, you know, the climate crisis throughout
6:15
Speaker 6: all this, and what kept coming up as well was
6:19
Speaker 6: how do we hold spaces for people who are really
6:22
Speaker 6: worried about climate change? And you know, more and more
6:26
Speaker 6: I found myself being called into this world really of
6:29
Speaker 6: the work that we Connect and deep Adaptation and you know,
6:33
Speaker 6: all of that is trying to answer in different ways.
6:35
Speaker 4: How do we ya, how do we respond to these.
6:38
Speaker 6: Massive existential threats as individuals and as a collective. And
6:45
Speaker 6: so I found myself also signing up for the work
6:48
Speaker 6: that we Connect training. And you remember that time during
6:52
Speaker 6: the pandemic, I was just making friends online all over
6:55
Speaker 6: the place, just connecting with people who seemed to think.
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Speaker 4: The way I did.
7:00
Speaker 6: A lot of coaches and therapists that were asking the
7:02
Speaker 6: same things around you know, climate, even though we had
7:06
Speaker 6: this big pandemic going on, we were actually we were
7:08
Speaker 6: talking more about climate, but we were really talking about
7:12
Speaker 6: the bigger story of you know, the collapse and all
7:15
Speaker 6: the systems we've come to take you granted.
7:18
Speaker 4: And yeah, I found myself in a lot of.
7:22
Speaker 6: Zoom coffees with people making friends, with a lot of
7:25
Speaker 6: people going to Climate Psychology Alliance and Climate Coaching Alliance
7:30
Speaker 6: that had just formed a lot of flair events, found
7:34
Speaker 6: the deep adaptation. There were just a lot of stuff
7:37
Speaker 6: is going on, and I think it was quite a
7:39
Speaker 6: fertile time in terms of you know, I had a
7:43
Speaker 6: lot of creative energy.
7:44
Speaker 4: Then I was putting a lot out into the world.
7:46
Speaker 6: And I think there's something about when you're not actually
7:49
Speaker 6: going out into the world, you know, you're in this
7:52
Speaker 6: online bubble. I felt a lot more confident just putting
7:55
Speaker 6: workshops out there and seeing who signed up, and yeah,
8:00
Speaker 6: and so it started growing from there really and I've
8:02
Speaker 6: been I think I would say I put in a
8:06
Speaker 6: couple of years of like really pushing my stuff out there, writing.
8:11
Speaker 4: Loads of articles, making that's.
8:13
Speaker 6: Of content trying to be featured in other places. Then
8:18
Speaker 6: I moved back to the UK two and a half
8:20
Speaker 6: years ago, and I needed to pick up almost full
8:24
Speaker 6: time work, you know, to keep the money flowing.
8:27
Speaker 4: So I've not been able to give it as much
8:30
Speaker 4: energy since then.
8:31
Speaker 6: That I'm you know, I still feel very blessed that
8:35
Speaker 6: I still have this slowly.
8:37
Speaker 4: Organically growing group of people.
8:39
Speaker 6: Who, yeah, who follow my work and come to events,
8:44
Speaker 6: and gosh, I've talked a lot now, but it's ended
8:49
Speaker 6: up looking like a lot of sharing circles.
8:52
Speaker 4: And grief circles a lot.
8:54
Speaker 6: And also it's ended up being a little bit more
8:58
Speaker 6: of what I.
8:58
Speaker 4: Call soul journeys. You know.
9:01
Speaker 6: The woods spiritual is a little bit trickier, but I
9:04
Speaker 6: think soul work is what's happening.
9:07
Speaker 4: Even though I always.
9:09
Speaker 6: Bring in my kind of hard academic, rigorous scientific edge
9:14
Speaker 6: to whatever I do as well, Yeah I did.
9:16
Speaker 4: I did a master at some point in that as well.
9:19
Speaker 6: So I always approach things from a kind of scientific place,
9:24
Speaker 6: but nevertheless, that.
9:26
Speaker 4: Deep emotional alchemical stuff keeps coming up. Yeah, so that's
9:32
Speaker 4: where I am right now.
9:35
Speaker 5: I love it. Yeah, thank you for sharing all of
9:38
Speaker 5: that with it.
9:39
Speaker 3: And I've given you a huge task just to distill down,
9:43
Speaker 3: you know, everything from the beginning to what has led
9:45
Speaker 3: you up until this point. So it's no wonder that
9:48
Speaker 3: we covered a lot of topics already, and I just
9:51
Speaker 3: want to pick up and highlight some of what you've shared.
9:54
Speaker 3: The first thing I'm seeing is that even though it
9:58
Speaker 3: seemed like all of your trainings weren't exactly connected when
10:03
Speaker 3: you were first going through them, in retrospect, it seems
10:06
Speaker 3: like it makes perfect sense and it all aligns to
10:09
Speaker 3: build the structure and the kind of work that you
10:12
Speaker 3: do now, because again you're bringing in that science and
10:16
Speaker 3: the psychology to behavior change theories that of course have
10:21
Speaker 3: been kind of you know, put out there. It's quite
10:26
Speaker 3: a complex topic that definitely has a lot of opportunities
10:31
Speaker 3: and a lot of industries, is what I'm noticing, and
10:36
Speaker 3: really questioning, Why do we behave a certain way and
10:39
Speaker 3: how do we support change so that it is more
10:43
Speaker 3: beneficial both for the individual and the collective is really
10:48
Speaker 3: one of the most important questions we can be asking,
10:51
Speaker 3: I think, and then bringing in these other modalities to
10:56
Speaker 3: help people to get on that journey of the soul
11:00
Speaker 3: work that you're describing and understanding why are we feeling
11:06
Speaker 3: a certain way. Maybe that despair, the grief and part
11:10
Speaker 3: of it is definitely valid because the evidence is there
11:14
Speaker 3: for us to be worried and concerned number one. And
11:18
Speaker 3: then number two, it's like, well, what do we do
11:19
Speaker 3: with that, and how do we move forward both on
11:23
Speaker 3: a personal and collective level, and what are the things
11:26
Speaker 3: that we can control and what do we just need
11:30
Speaker 3: to again just share and communicate and admit to even ourselves,
11:36
Speaker 3: and then also sharing it with others.
11:38
Speaker 5: That's already part of the healing process.
11:42
Speaker 3: So again, it just seems to me that you know,
11:45
Speaker 3: the scientific, the business and the sort of spiritual soul
11:50
Speaker 3: work all relates to each other. And what you're building
11:54
Speaker 3: now is truly wonderful and what you're facilitating and the
11:58
Speaker 3: world definitely needs this kind of work right now. And
12:03
Speaker 3: I personally will say that I was not as well
12:09
Speaker 3: informed about the state of the climate and the world
12:13
Speaker 3: until more recently, like in the last I would say
12:18
Speaker 3: year or so, maybe two years. But really the herbal
12:23
Speaker 3: work and the healing work also relates to this a lot,
12:28
Speaker 3: because this is how we can become more autonomous and
12:32
Speaker 3: sovereign and sustainable, is by going into the more nature
12:38
Speaker 3: based healing modalities and how we can change some of
12:44
Speaker 3: these structures and systems by not leaning as heavily on
12:48
Speaker 3: them and not being such a great burden on those
12:51
Speaker 3: systems because they're not sustainable the way that they are
12:55
Speaker 3: set up right now, right, So you know, I think.
12:58
Speaker 5: Politics as well.
13:00
Speaker 3: Right, all of these topics, they seem disconnected, but they're
13:03
Speaker 3: actually very much one and the same. So the social issues,
13:07
Speaker 3: the justice issues, the access issues, all of these things,
13:11
Speaker 3: reforms and policies and all of that works together. So
13:16
Speaker 3: when we bring this to individual consciousness, eventually it will
13:20
Speaker 3: trickle out to the more collective and systemic consciousness. So
13:25
Speaker 3: we need people like you to lead in these spaces
13:29
Speaker 3: because some people just don't know what they don't know right,
13:32
Speaker 3: and they don't know how to live differently or how
13:35
Speaker 3: to imagine different structures if they're just not even aware
13:40
Speaker 3: right of what's going on beyond like looking down, because
13:44
Speaker 3: that's what we're taught, right, just look down, follow the plan,
13:48
Speaker 3: you know, and take care of yourself is kind of
13:51
Speaker 3: the message from capitalism. And we need to really step
13:57
Speaker 3: outside and gain a broader perspective and all of us
14:01
Speaker 3: come to this from different places, but I think this
14:04
Speaker 3: is eventually where hopefully will end up because we need to,
14:09
Speaker 3: We need to end up having broader perspectives because they're
14:13
Speaker 3: so very limited. And I think social media, like you said,
14:17
Speaker 3: you know, during COVID, and just because of the progress
14:21
Speaker 3: of our technology, the way that we can connect to
14:26
Speaker 3: similar like minded individuals across the globe and connect on
14:30
Speaker 3: these topics and spread those messages via various channels. It
14:35
Speaker 3: has been really, really instrumental for myself to get informed
14:40
Speaker 3: as well, because yeah, it's not really mainstream these topics unfortunately.
14:44
Speaker 3: It's just like, why isn't this the number one thing
14:47
Speaker 3: that everybody's talking about and making movements towards. Why is
14:50
Speaker 3: this not, yea, the primary thing that we're seeing. And
14:55
Speaker 3: you know, I think the answer to that is probably
14:59
Speaker 3: because we don't want to depress everybody. You know, we.
15:01
Speaker 5: Wouldn't want everybody to grieve.
15:04
Speaker 3: But I think not acknowledging it and ignoring it is
15:07
Speaker 3: definitely not serving anybody.
15:08
Speaker 5: So I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
15:10
Speaker 6: Yeah, well you hit on a lot of things then, yes, yeah,
15:16
Speaker 6: just to comment on a couple of those things, it's like, yeah,
15:20
Speaker 6: it's all interconnected, and I suppose I found it difficult
15:25
Speaker 6: to recognize that a lot of people don't see those connections.
15:29
Speaker 6: I've always assumed that they were obvious to everyone. I'm
15:32
Speaker 6: learning more about my own neurotype at the moment and realizing, okay, no,
15:37
Speaker 6: those connections are not obvious to everyone, you know.
15:39
Speaker 4: So for me, it's like.
15:40
Speaker 6: A big tree and all the different branches are there,
15:43
Speaker 6: but you know, you need to look at what the
15:45
Speaker 6: roots are. And we live in a world that is,
15:50
Speaker 6: you know, not natural in a sense. Right, We've grown
15:55
Speaker 6: up in this capitalist, colonial world and we've taken that
15:59
Speaker 6: to be but as I'm sure you know in your
16:02
Speaker 6: own work, like, yeah, it's it's not natural as and
16:07
Speaker 6: it's not how we evolve. Obviously, there are some positives
16:11
Speaker 6: as well, because people will always come and say, oh,
16:13
Speaker 6: you want to live in caves, but yeah.
16:16
Speaker 4: We're living.
16:19
Speaker 6: Basically like a massive graveyard of all the people that
16:25
Speaker 6: have been killed so that our society can progress.
16:29
Speaker 4: So why don't we hear more about climate change?
16:31
Speaker 6: It's that too, you know, It's massive vested interests, Like
16:34
Speaker 6: it's the fact that the oil companies spend millions on
16:38
Speaker 6: disinformation and doubt.
16:39
Speaker 4: And now what we're seeing in the US.
16:42
Speaker 6: You know, the social media companies are they've got their
16:46
Speaker 6: own agenda. So for me with my day job, I
16:49
Speaker 6: do communications for a climate action project actually like community
16:53
Speaker 6: climate action, and I have a hard time posting on
16:57
Speaker 6: Facebook because the algorithms will show my stuff to most people.
17:02
Speaker 6: If we try to spend money on ads, they won't
17:04
Speaker 6: let you because they say climate change is a pull issue,
17:07
Speaker 6: which it's not in most countries, but basically is the
17:11
Speaker 6: US company, so they've decided that that's.
17:14
Speaker 4: A political thing.
17:16
Speaker 6: But yeah, the psychology itself will say, well, people are
17:20
Speaker 6: not good at recognizing big abstract threats, right, Like we've
17:24
Speaker 6: evolved to see a lion and to run away. But
17:28
Speaker 6: climate change is kind of like COVID was. It's this
17:32
Speaker 6: ghost in the air that you can't quite see, you
17:34
Speaker 6: don't quite know when it's going to get you. So
17:36
Speaker 6: our brains are not able to deal with that reality
17:39
Speaker 6: as much. We tend to deal with what's right in
17:41
Speaker 6: front of us. Right, So you know, if you're not
17:45
Speaker 6: right now being affected by climate change, it's easy to
17:48
Speaker 6: tell yourself it's not really.
17:49
Speaker 4: Going to affect me, It's going to affect other people.
17:53
Speaker 6: And Professor Sally Wine Trope pulls that disavowal. So it's
17:58
Speaker 6: not just it's actually disavowal. It's like when we kind
18:02
Speaker 6: of say, oh, I don't really care if it's.
18:05
Speaker 4: Not affecting me.
18:06
Speaker 6: So that's another gift of our current colonial civilization in
18:12
Speaker 6: their quotes, uh, that individualism, right, that feeling of oh well,
18:16
Speaker 6: if it's not affecting me.
18:18
Speaker 4: Or my like inner bubble, then I don't really care.
18:22
Speaker 6: And what people don't realize again is it's always.
18:26
Speaker 4: Going to affect you.
18:27
Speaker 6: So with what you do, right, are you going to
18:29
Speaker 6: grow those herbs that can heal you if the climates change,
18:33
Speaker 6: be on recognition and those plants can't grow anymore because
18:36
Speaker 6: they don't recognize, you know, the cycles of the season
18:40
Speaker 6: or the soils too hot or too acidic now, you know,
18:43
Speaker 6: and that's going.
18:44
Speaker 4: To affect coffee and chocolate, but also like all food.
18:48
Speaker 6: You know, if we have drought, heavy heavy rain, like
18:52
Speaker 6: growing crops becomes more difficult. Anyway, I could go on,
18:55
Speaker 6: like the effects will eventually hit everyone.
18:59
Speaker 4: But you know the other thing is most people are
19:04
Speaker 4: so caught up right and the day to day stresses
19:06
Speaker 4: just surviving in capitalism so like.
19:10
Speaker 6: Increasing cost of living, feeling you have to do more
19:13
Speaker 6: and more and more just to stay above water. So
19:16
Speaker 6: of course it's really hard for people to have the
19:19
Speaker 6: time to really understand these massive, complex issues. And when
19:23
Speaker 6: you look at the research that organizations like Climate Outreage,
19:28
Speaker 6: do you know, they show that most people say when
19:33
Speaker 6: they're surveyed, that they are worried about climate change, likely
19:36
Speaker 6: eighty percent of people say that. But also most people
19:39
Speaker 6: say they want stronger leadership.
19:40
Speaker 4: Of climate change. They want the government to say all right,
19:44
Speaker 4: we got this, it's not all on you personally. Well,
19:48
Speaker 4: that's not right.
19:49
Speaker 6: I think it's quite a common feeling at the moment
19:51
Speaker 6: of oh, I'm here with my paper straw, and then
19:55
Speaker 6: Jeff Bezos just had ninety six private jets flying guests
19:59
Speaker 6: to his wedding. Yeah, so I actually I don't talk
20:04
Speaker 6: about behavior change so much because I think people need
20:07
Speaker 6: that model from leaders and people are people aren't stupid, right,
20:11
Speaker 6: they can see a billionaire has something like a million
20:16
Speaker 6: times greater climate impact than a regular person. So yeah,
20:21
Speaker 6: so for me, it's it's more about how do we
20:24
Speaker 6: keep hope and love alive so that we can birth
20:29
Speaker 6: better world into being because we have to write it's
20:33
Speaker 6: that all we're facing well, you know, a lot of
20:37
Speaker 6: really dystopian futures or extinction, but there is also this
20:43
Speaker 6: beautiful world that I think, you know, as Charles Einenstein's the.
20:49
Speaker 4: More beautiful world our hearts know as possible. And yeah,
20:54
Speaker 4: my work is.
20:55
Speaker 6: Maybe around I want to kind of rip huffle allusions
21:00
Speaker 6: that people have about what's important and you know, this
21:05
Speaker 6: individualism story, and yeah, once once we've done that to
21:11
Speaker 6: kind of work on, right, then what is the world
21:14
Speaker 6: we really want if we could really.
21:16
Speaker 4: Dream and what would we create together?
21:19
Speaker 6: And you know, it's funny because the day job I
21:21
Speaker 6: talked about, it's actually beautiful. Like I get to go
21:24
Speaker 6: into schools and do visioning exercises with kids on what
21:28
Speaker 6: kind of world they would see in an ideal future.
21:32
Speaker 4: And it's always the same. You know, everyone comes back
21:37
Speaker 4: with the same thing.
21:38
Speaker 6: There's always more trees and more plants and clean water
21:42
Speaker 6: and no rubbish and the streets and everyone's coming.
21:46
Speaker 4: Out and being in community.
21:48
Speaker 6: There's market It's just like, okay, we all have that,
21:52
Speaker 6: even these kids have that dream, So yeah, how do
21:56
Speaker 6: we bring that in anyway? And I think, you know,
21:59
Speaker 6: the links with health are huge, right, the links with
22:02
Speaker 6: the way we live and health, and the links with
22:06
Speaker 6: all the difficult emotions that brings up and health.
22:10
Speaker 4: So just trying to bring it back to your podcast topic.
22:14
Speaker 6: Really, I think a lot of physical health symptoms we
22:19
Speaker 6: see are probably from this spiritual sickness, right, trying to
22:23
Speaker 6: live in this world, especially for people who are really
22:26
Speaker 6: sensitive and care deeply about injustice and about other beings,
22:33
Speaker 6: like just trying to pretend you're okay with what's happening
22:37
Speaker 6: in the world and trying to just go to work
22:40
Speaker 6: and be a good little citizen when your heart is
22:44
Speaker 6: thick thinking about the future.
22:47
Speaker 4: And the present.
22:49
Speaker 6: That pauses a lot of our body to react as well.
22:53
Speaker 6: So in true podcast style, I answered about fifty questions
22:58
Speaker 6: that you didn't ask.
23:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I appreciate you tying it back to this
23:06
Speaker 3: concept of holism. And it's long been defined that health
23:12
Speaker 3: is the body, mind and spirit communion, right, and we
23:17
Speaker 3: have to look at all of these I don't want
23:20
Speaker 3: to say as separate entities. Actually, I want to say
23:23
Speaker 3: that they're all bi directional, and they all tie in together,
23:26
Speaker 3: and they're all in relation, and they're also in relation
23:30
Speaker 3: like you were saying to the external circumstances in the
23:34
Speaker 3: outside world and the environment in which we find our
23:37
Speaker 3: physical selves, because it's all interconnected. And we just had
23:42
Speaker 3: an episode talking about how the microcosm and our microbiome
23:47
Speaker 3: and the macrocosm the gaia theory, right, it is all a.
23:52
Speaker 5: Reflection as above and so below, and so we.
23:55
Speaker 3: Can't hope for individual like success or financial success or
24:03
Speaker 3: health if we're not looking at the circumstances. And again,
24:07
Speaker 3: a lot of the circumstances we can affect. That's the
24:11
Speaker 3: beautiful thing about it. It's not just all luck of
24:15
Speaker 3: the draw. It's like, what are the processes that are
24:18
Speaker 3: contributing to this environment, right, and what's the impact? And
24:24
Speaker 3: where's the responsibility right collectively versus individually versus the business
24:29
Speaker 3: or the government, right, Like who's going to step in
24:32
Speaker 3: and pull on the strings? And I think we all
24:35
Speaker 3: share that responsibility, right, And it would be really nice
24:39
Speaker 3: if the government and the businesses and the billionaires as
24:43
Speaker 3: we shared of the world pulled a little bit more
24:46
Speaker 3: on those strings in the right direction, because then it
24:48
Speaker 3: would be a lot lighter for the rest of us, definitely.
24:52
Speaker 3: And you know, it's like, again the capitalism dream doesn't
24:56
Speaker 3: work because we can't thrive as an individual when everything
25:00
Speaker 3: else around us is crumbling and we're basically stealing from
25:04
Speaker 3: future generations and those of us who have children, it's like, well,
25:09
Speaker 3: we're actually doing a detriment and a disservice because we're
25:13
Speaker 3: not providing them a future to look forward to it
25:16
Speaker 3: at least not a bright one. Right, So you know,
25:20
Speaker 3: I think we have to start thinking about all of these.
25:23
Speaker 5: Things and.
25:25
Speaker 3: It's going to be mutually beneficial once we uh, you know,
25:30
Speaker 3: turn that perspective around and instead of thinking that, okay,
25:35
Speaker 3: by me doing positive things for the collective, I'm not
25:39
Speaker 3: somehow stealing from myself.
25:41
Speaker 4: Right.
25:41
Speaker 3: That's like this scarcity or fear based mentality, and we
25:45
Speaker 3: need to get away from that number one because it's
25:48
Speaker 3: actually an abundant world. And this ties back to psychology.
25:51
Speaker 3: And I'm so glad that you mentioned kids because this
25:54
Speaker 3: also has to do with child psychology of well, how
25:57
Speaker 3: do you raise children? Do you do positive reinforcement or
26:00
Speaker 3: do you try to punish what they're doing wrong? And
26:03
Speaker 3: so I think one of the key solutions is to
26:07
Speaker 3: focus on the restructuring and the rebuilding, and like the
26:10
Speaker 3: reimagining that you were mentioning of the systems, even if
26:13
Speaker 3: we have to completely scratch some of the existing ones
26:16
Speaker 3: and build a new but that's where we can actually
26:22
Speaker 3: unlock the amazing side of human potentiality and creativity rather
26:29
Speaker 3: than focusing on like all of these things that we're
26:31
Speaker 3: feeling ashamed or guilt or wronged for.
26:37
Speaker 4: Yeah.
26:37
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And I think reimagining leads me to the thought
26:43
Speaker 6: as well of you imagination.
26:46
Speaker 4: It's so crucial, and I think.
26:48
Speaker 6: It represents so much the capitalism kind of devalues and crushes.
26:53
Speaker 6: You can also say it's the step that's associated with
26:56
Speaker 6: feminine right, like compassion and love and the sub skills
27:01
Speaker 6: they call themself and dreaming. You know, I've been getting
27:05
Speaker 6: really into dream work creasically as well. But you know,
27:08
Speaker 6: you kind of recognize often often I think it's the
27:12
Speaker 6: same people who say they don't remember their dreams, they
27:14
Speaker 6: don't also struggle with imagining how things could be different,
27:20
Speaker 6: because you know, often a criticism, if someone criticizes the
27:24
Speaker 6: current system we live in, often people come back with, oh, well,
27:28
Speaker 6: you're not proposing an alternative, you're just criticizing it. But
27:31
Speaker 6: actually people are proposing a lot of its alternatives, and
27:35
Speaker 6: you know, it's that what Joanna basicles the moral imagination
27:39
Speaker 6: work of using that power, this amazing power we have
27:44
Speaker 6: to imagine to think outside of this, right, because it's
27:49
Speaker 6: so simplistic to say, oh, we've got these two choices
27:52
Speaker 6: communism or caracuitalists, right, And in the States, it's like
27:55
Speaker 6: anything that views into being slightly compassionate, like, oh no,
27:59
Speaker 6: that's communism.
28:01
Speaker 4: It's bad. And it's like just look at other countries
28:04
Speaker 4: and other.
28:05
Speaker 6: Societies through history, like we have the ability to take
28:09
Speaker 6: the best of everything and create a new thing.
28:12
Speaker 4: It doesn't have to just be A or B because somebody.
28:15
Speaker 6: Told you, right, And that's why I think the imagination
28:19
Speaker 6: work is so important as well.
28:21
Speaker 4: And I'm really happy to see.
28:22
Speaker 6: More and more of that coming up at the moment,
28:25
Speaker 6: at least in the space as I look at. But
28:29
Speaker 6: I think it's got to it's got to hit everybody, right,
28:32
Speaker 6: not just people who are already kind of artsy and
28:34
Speaker 6: creative and like imagining. I think we need to bring
28:37
Speaker 6: this into places where people have like certain influence and power.
28:41
Speaker 6: And I don't know, I was really excited when I
28:44
Speaker 6: heard that the work that we Connect had been brought
28:46
Speaker 6: into the Welsh government.
28:48
Speaker 4: At some point for some workshops. Yeah.
28:51
Speaker 6: Also going back we mentioned about you know, what can
28:54
Speaker 6: we do as individuals? Right, We shouldn't just sit around saying, well,
28:58
Speaker 6: the billionaires aren't doing anything.
29:00
Speaker 4: It's always about recognizing where you have influence and the
29:05
Speaker 4: points of leverage as well.
29:07
Speaker 6: So you know, we do this sometimes even at work, Right,
29:10
Speaker 6: we do a graph and it's like on the X
29:15
Speaker 6: access you have kind of how much effort would this take,
29:18
Speaker 6: and then on the Y access you have how big
29:20
Speaker 6: would the impact be. So you might find there's something
29:24
Speaker 6: that would take you a lot a lot of effort,
29:26
Speaker 6: but actually the gains are not that great. And then
29:28
Speaker 6: there might be something where it actually doesn't cost you
29:32
Speaker 6: so much in terms of time or money or anything,
29:35
Speaker 6: but the gains could be really big. And you know,
29:39
Speaker 6: there's some studies even showing when you ask people which
29:42
Speaker 6: climate actions are the most impactful, and then you ask
29:46
Speaker 6: them which ones are the easiest to do, it's flipped
29:49
Speaker 6: so people think the most impactful things to do are
29:53
Speaker 6: the hardest, but actually a lot of the time talking
29:57
Speaker 6: to other people about climate change can actually be one
30:00
Speaker 6: of the most impactful things you do.
30:02
Speaker 4: You know, you don't have to like give up driving
30:04
Speaker 4: or give up most food you eat.
30:07
Speaker 6: Obviously those things will help bring down your club and footprint.
30:10
Speaker 4: But then the more abstract things.
30:12
Speaker 6: That you can't put a carb and value on, and
30:14
Speaker 6: it's easily like breaking the silence and talking about it,
30:18
Speaker 6: that could actually have a much bigger impact. And it's easier, right,
30:23
Speaker 6: I mean it's not easy because sometimes you get a
30:27
Speaker 6: lot of pushback, but yeah, it's absolutely walk around thinking
30:31
Speaker 6: nobody else is.
30:32
Speaker 4: Worried about this, no one else cares.
30:34
Speaker 6: But then obviously if you're then staying silent because you
30:37
Speaker 6: think that, then other people will think you don't care,
30:40
Speaker 6: you know.
30:41
Speaker 4: So it's yeah, it's breaking that silence.
30:43
Speaker 6: I mean on everything right on mental health, like on
30:47
Speaker 6: how we're doing, how we're coping with life, on other.
30:51
Speaker 4: Issues that are happening in the world.
30:53
Speaker 6: I've kind of moved from saying climate crisis at the
30:56
Speaker 6: moment to talking more about the meta crisis, because.
31:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's everything, isn't it.
31:01
Speaker 6: It's like the rise of fascism, the rise of AI,
31:05
Speaker 6: like all these different things are coming at us.
31:08
Speaker 4: Again, they're all interconnected if you go and look at
31:11
Speaker 4: the roots.
31:13
Speaker 6: But yeah, often the people who are really worried about
31:17
Speaker 6: one thing often are the same.
31:19
Speaker 4: People who are worried about the other things.
31:21
Speaker 6: You know, I think it's a certain I love a
31:24
Speaker 6: certain type of person, but it's like once your awareness
31:27
Speaker 6: to one opens up, you kind of see you start
31:30
Speaker 6: to see the other things as well, and they just
31:32
Speaker 6: tie into this.
31:34
Speaker 4: Well, this narrative of things are bad.
31:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love the weaving that we're doing right now.
31:45
Speaker 3: And I even heard you say history, right, like, you
31:47
Speaker 3: have to look at our history and pull from what
31:50
Speaker 3: has worked, and pull from the best types of systems
31:53
Speaker 3: currently and in the past. So yeah, everything, you know,
31:57
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what your favorite subject was in school,
32:00
Speaker 3: if you are here on this planet right now, all
32:02
Speaker 3: of these skills can be useful for us to start
32:05
Speaker 3: to reimagine. And again, if like one idea sparks somebody
32:10
Speaker 3: else's idea, we can use that sort of inspiration as
32:15
Speaker 3: a positive movement and also a positive behavior change model
32:20
Speaker 3: instead of always just thinking oh, comparison, right, and they're
32:25
Speaker 3: not doing this, and why should I do it if
32:26
Speaker 3: they're not doing it?
32:27
Speaker 5: You know, and like, let's not level too. What's the
32:30
Speaker 5: worst in humanity? What's up?
32:33
Speaker 3: Level to who is doing the best and trying to
32:36
Speaker 3: emulate that as much as possible. And you know we
32:40
Speaker 3: can't do it in a vacuum, right, So it's so
32:43
Speaker 3: important to find that community and those projects that are
32:46
Speaker 3: already out there, like where you are working, so that
32:50
Speaker 3: you can understand, Okay, well what is the highest impact
32:53
Speaker 3: and lowest effort, right, how can I get involved? So
32:56
Speaker 3: I'd love for you to talk when it's about in
32:59
Speaker 3: an ideal world, what should the bigger influenced government, businesses,
33:04
Speaker 3: et cetera, what should they be doing right now? And
33:06
Speaker 3: then what should we be doing for awakening to this
33:10
Speaker 3: climate journey?
33:12
Speaker 6: Yeah, I do a cynical laugh there because you know, unfortunately,
33:16
Speaker 6: I think our governments the UK and US have.
33:22
Speaker 4: Big vested interests.
33:23
Speaker 6: A lot of oil money, there, a lot of other
33:26
Speaker 6: stuff going on.
33:27
Speaker 4: So I'm just, yeah, I like cynical.
33:32
Speaker 6: But in an ideal world, we would bam that sort
33:36
Speaker 6: of lobbying. We would bam oil money from entering politics, right,
33:40
Speaker 6: that would be the first thing, and.
33:41
Speaker 4: We would have a lot more direct democracy.
33:45
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know how it works in reality,
33:48
Speaker 6: the Swiss model, but people get to vote on a
33:51
Speaker 6: lot more issues it's not just come to the booths
33:54
Speaker 6: every four years and vote. I mean, if you're talking
33:58
Speaker 6: about the US, I'm just praying for all of you, honestly,
34:03
Speaker 6: like what is going on over there at the moment.
34:06
Speaker 4: So in an ideal world, yeah, man, I mean, you'd
34:09
Speaker 4: have a very different government.
34:11
Speaker 6: And I just think, yeah, it comes back to the
34:14
Speaker 6: root problem, right of greed, corruption.
34:18
Speaker 4: It's not even just love of money.
34:20
Speaker 6: Now.
34:20
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of ideology pushing forward as well.
34:27
Speaker 6: I mean I just dream of, yeah, a world where
34:30
Speaker 6: we have nice governments who actually care about us as
34:34
Speaker 6: a collective. And there are countries that seem to be
34:37
Speaker 6: moving better in those directions. I look at the Scandinavian
34:40
Speaker 6: countries a lot, for example, and I dare say, China
34:44
Speaker 6: is actually doing loads with renewable energy and with you know,
34:48
Speaker 6: nature restoration, and obviously there's negatives there as well, but
34:53
Speaker 6: they are actually kind of putting the Western countries to
34:56
Speaker 6: shame right now and their climate stepf So saying that, yeah,
35:02
Speaker 6: an ideal situation, I think, well, you know, the so
35:07
Speaker 6: the project I work for did a pretty radical thing.
35:10
Speaker 6: Actually that was before I joined, but they had climate
35:13
Speaker 6: assemblies in five micro community areas where they invited everyone
35:20
Speaker 6: through a letter through the post and to take that
35:23
Speaker 6: in these climate assemblies, and then they picked fifty from
35:26
Speaker 6: each area that was like a proportional representation of that
35:29
Speaker 6: demographic and then over four whole days that spread over
35:35
Speaker 6: two years, they went through a whole process of like identifying,
35:38
Speaker 6: you know, what's already happening in our communities, what are
35:41
Speaker 6: the biggest threats we're facing, like an audit of what
35:44
Speaker 6: skills we already have here and where the energy is,
35:47
Speaker 6: where the passion is, and then coming up with an
35:49
Speaker 6: action plan of what we want to do and right
35:53
Speaker 6: now that's what we're trying to do over here. We're
35:55
Speaker 6: trying to make some of those action plan items happen,
36:00
Speaker 6: and we've had really nice funding from the National Lottery
36:04
Speaker 6: in the UK. But you know, if you think about
36:07
Speaker 6: that as a country wide model, where you know, these
36:11
Speaker 6: citizens assembly is very direct, democracy is happening, and then
36:15
Speaker 6: you get funding somehow from the government or wherever to
36:19
Speaker 6: bring those things to life, I think that would be
36:22
Speaker 6: amazing because it involves people right as well, and it
36:25
Speaker 6: also creates a lot of really positive connections. The downside
36:31
Speaker 6: there is I think people maybe didn't have enough knowledge
36:35
Speaker 6: about climate and what's the most effective thing we can
36:38
Speaker 6: do in terms of intervention. So maybe a little bit
36:42
Speaker 6: more find education as well would be great. Yeah, I'm
36:48
Speaker 6: quite radical, so I would definitely.
36:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of people would not want me to get.
36:54
Speaker 6: Into power because I would ban a lot of the
36:57
Speaker 6: dirty duck money that happened. I'd try to I'd be assassinated,
37:01
Speaker 6: of course, that's what we'd like to see. And you know,
37:06
Speaker 6: our project came from this ecails of we can't sit
37:10
Speaker 6: around waiting for the government to do something.
37:12
Speaker 4: We're just gonna do it.
37:13
Speaker 6: And I'm from a very post industrial working class but
37:18
Speaker 6: very like entrepreneurial area in North Wales, so there is
37:23
Speaker 6: that attitude still here of like, yeah, we can do
37:25
Speaker 6: it ourselves. You know, communities, I mean you know, you
37:28
Speaker 6: know about the National Health Service right in the UK,
37:31
Speaker 6: the NHS that actually was born from a model created
37:35
Speaker 6: in a mining town in South Wales. That was a
37:38
Speaker 6: community project where people went, hey, let's collect money so
37:41
Speaker 6: that we can support healthcare for these miners. And then
37:45
Speaker 6: that model was taken and like pasted across the whole
37:49
Speaker 6: of the UK. So it's that kind of working class
37:52
Speaker 6: community spirit. I've seeming really powerful here.
37:57
Speaker 4: Yeah.
37:58
Speaker 6: So other ideal world things I'd like to add in though,
38:02
Speaker 6: is you know, really being much more involved in the
38:05
Speaker 6: education system with supporting kids and teenagers, with you know,
38:12
Speaker 6: with the mental health aspect, because we go in.
38:14
Speaker 4: And teach him about climate change. But I think a
38:16
Speaker 4: lot more needs to happen.
38:17
Speaker 6: With supporting them, especially in such an uncertain future, right.
38:23
Speaker 4: I just think we need to see.
38:24
Speaker 6: More and more things that are supporting the overall health
38:30
Speaker 6: of of young people.
38:32
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, so I'm.
38:35
Speaker 6: Just thinking about this morning when a kid started, an
38:39
Speaker 6: eleven year old kid was telling us how worried is
38:42
Speaker 6: that there's no point doing anything because AI is going
38:44
Speaker 6: to take all the jobs, and it just, you know,
38:47
Speaker 6: it really got me here. I was just like, I
38:49
Speaker 6: don't know what to tell this kid. I can't reassure him.
38:52
Speaker 6: I actually feel a loss. So maybe validating his concerns
38:57
Speaker 6: is the most effective thing. Because he then on to
39:00
Speaker 6: say that all the adults are kind of telling him
39:03
Speaker 6: not to worry, that it's going to be fine.
39:06
Speaker 5: Yeah no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:15
Speaker 3: That is very deep right there, and we're all feeling it, right,
39:21
Speaker 3: And I think children are just so perceptive even though
39:25
Speaker 3: we may not even realize how perceptive they are. The
39:30
Speaker 3: things that they say shows us what they pick up on.
39:34
Speaker 3: And like you were saying earlier, you know, certain people
39:39
Speaker 3: can really easily make the connections and kind of see
39:44
Speaker 3: this whole web and how it all works and what
39:47
Speaker 3: are the domino effects and how are the chips.
39:49
Speaker 5: Going to fall?
39:49
Speaker 3: And other people are a little bit more like direct
39:53
Speaker 3: and just kind of see one thing at a time
39:56
Speaker 3: and all that is fine, But we can use those
39:58
Speaker 3: skills to again and reimagine and create a plan, but
40:03
Speaker 3: then break it down into these little single minded, focused
40:07
Speaker 3: steps that we can all tackle together.
40:10
Speaker 5: But without good leadership.
40:12
Speaker 3: To your point, it's very difficult to do like this
40:15
Speaker 3: grassroots effort that is just so decentralized but still not impossible. Right,
40:22
Speaker 3: So if we were not seeing the leadership, then what
40:25
Speaker 3: options do we have, Gwyneth, What can we do as
40:27
Speaker 3: an individual?
40:29
Speaker 4: Yes?
40:30
Speaker 6: Well, as I said, yeah, finding your points of influence
40:34
Speaker 6: and leverage. So in the Work that Reconnects, I'm going
40:37
Speaker 6: to wind it back there. The Work that Reconnects, by
40:40
Speaker 6: the way, is a beautiful body of work and it
40:43
Speaker 6: was created primarily by Joanna Macy who is a philosopher.
40:48
Speaker 4: Scholar, Buddhist, amazing human being.
40:53
Speaker 6: And it is a kind of a group methodology to
40:56
Speaker 6: bring people together and I think process our feelings about
41:01
Speaker 6: the climate crisis, but it's much more. It's like finding
41:04
Speaker 6: your place and all this So you work through the
41:08
Speaker 6: spiral of different things, from gratitude to honoring our pains
41:13
Speaker 6: of the world, to seeing with new eyes where we
41:16
Speaker 6: actually kind of look at who we are in the massive,
41:19
Speaker 6: wide web of life and also where we are in
41:22
Speaker 6: this massive, you know, time period. So there's deep time exercises,
41:27
Speaker 6: connecting with ancestors, connecting with future generations.
41:31
Speaker 4: When all that.
41:32
Speaker 6: Has happened, which maybe over two hours, maybe over two weeks,
41:37
Speaker 6: there's a going forth part, which is about what are
41:40
Speaker 6: you going to do next with what you've discovered in
41:43
Speaker 6: the spiral.
41:44
Speaker 4: So that is when I lead people through that process.
41:48
Speaker 6: Often one of the exercises we do, it's kind of
41:52
Speaker 6: a visualization where you look at your own life path
41:57
Speaker 6: up until now, all the experiences, skills you've gained through
42:02
Speaker 6: you know, things that were good and bad at the time,
42:05
Speaker 6: and then looking forward at the different paths that are
42:07
Speaker 6: calling you forward. And I find through doing it that
42:11
Speaker 6: way people find, you know, the thing.
42:15
Speaker 4: We might ask as well for.
42:17
Speaker 6: People to rewrite for a few minutes on the sentence.
42:20
Speaker 6: If I knew I couldn't fail, I would and just
42:24
Speaker 6: write and write and write.
42:25
Speaker 4: And then you.
42:25
Speaker 6: Come back and look back at your list and maybe
42:28
Speaker 6: circle or highlight things that jump out to you because
42:32
Speaker 6: you're always going to have the shoulds in there, like, well,
42:35
Speaker 6: I guess I should do it. But then there'll be
42:37
Speaker 6: a thing that actually really excites you and energizes you
42:41
Speaker 6: as well, and I think you know, we can say
42:43
Speaker 6: that that's one of your callings, that's what you've been
42:46
Speaker 6: called to. Often it ends up being very community based,
42:51
Speaker 6: very like lovely based, or weaving in the existing work
42:55
Speaker 6: you're doing.
42:56
Speaker 4: And very often it's more about like.
42:58
Speaker 6: A way of being more than a doing right, so
43:02
Speaker 6: actually being the change you want to see in the world.
43:06
Speaker 6: A lot of people who come to my workshops, they
43:08
Speaker 6: end up having this feeling that, you know, what they
43:12
Speaker 6: want to do is create more opportunities for young people
43:15
Speaker 6: to be in.
43:16
Speaker 4: Nature, or creating more sharing spaces like those ones where
43:21
Speaker 4: people can come.
43:22
Speaker 6: And yeah, it's sometimes more I suppose technical and practical,
43:28
Speaker 6: or it might be about starting a community garden or
43:32
Speaker 6: a community run energy product or something. But but yeah,
43:36
Speaker 6: I think it's really about finding the thing that's calling you.
43:41
Speaker 6: And again, you know, coming back to that, where's your
43:43
Speaker 6: circle of influence? Like what can you actually affect? And yeah,
43:49
Speaker 6: the effort and impact rap you know, of course, like
43:54
Speaker 6: we can impact big things, but normally that's a ripple
43:58
Speaker 6: effect and from thousands or millions of us acting towards it.
44:03
Speaker 4: So yeah, you know, sign the petition, do that thing.
44:07
Speaker 4: But then there might be a.
44:08
Speaker 6: More locally based, long term project that's calling you as well,
44:14
Speaker 6: And it doesn't need to be a project, it might
44:15
Speaker 6: literally just be you know, thinking more about a specific
44:20
Speaker 6: thing like water.
44:21
Speaker 4: You know, is your water clean, where is it coming from?
44:24
Speaker 4: What pollutants are going into that river?
44:27
Speaker 6: Paying more attention to your square mile is what we
44:31
Speaker 6: say in Welsh, a lot like your square mile around you,
44:35
Speaker 6: and you know sometimes it just starts there.
44:38
Speaker 4: And yeah, you know, we're living in such uncertain times.
44:42
Speaker 6: It's really hard to have a linear plan of what
44:46
Speaker 6: you're going to do, like a five year plan is
44:49
Speaker 6: how I'm going to fight climate change?
44:51
Speaker 4: So I think it's more about being.
44:55
Speaker 6: Open to different possibilities and being yeah and learning. And
45:01
Speaker 6: also you know, a lot of my work is about
45:05
Speaker 6: processing your own emotions about all this, just so that
45:09
Speaker 6: you don't rush in with a massive amount of anxiety
45:14
Speaker 6: that might lead you to, you know, something that isn't
45:17
Speaker 6: actually that effective. Because when you first learn how bad
45:20
Speaker 6: climate change is, it's kind of tempting to start googling
45:23
Speaker 6: and going, oh my god, what can I do and
45:25
Speaker 6: really stressed, and you might get you might land on
45:28
Speaker 6: the first thing you see, and it might not actually
45:30
Speaker 6: be the most effective thing you could be doing, or
45:33
Speaker 6: the thing that best uses your unique skills and gifts.
45:38
Speaker 4: So when I say processing your emotions around.
45:40
Speaker 6: It, I don't mean that we're ever going to be
45:43
Speaker 6: okay with what's happening, but just that it's not going
45:46
Speaker 6: to be, you know, consuming us and stopping us from
45:51
Speaker 6: making good decisions. And so that's why I really recommend
45:54
Speaker 6: the work that we connect or emotional intelligence as your
45:57
Speaker 6: first step really so that you can make yea more
46:01
Speaker 6: logical choices you know that are going to be more
46:04
Speaker 6: effective than yeah. So you know, if you run in
46:07
Speaker 6: just following your emotions, you might do a field good
46:10
Speaker 6: exercise that's actually not helping.
46:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you.
46:18
Speaker 3: I think that's super helpful and it reminds me of
46:21
Speaker 3: the work that I do with positive intelligence, which is
46:25
Speaker 3: very similar to positive psychology, and it's the system that
46:30
Speaker 3: was developed by Shirza Chemin. And we we also follow
46:34
Speaker 3: a process and some of what you've mentioned is some
46:38
Speaker 3: of what we do we explore and we look back
46:43
Speaker 3: on what decisions have led us here and what were some.
46:47
Speaker 5: Of the you know, good and the bad quote unquote
46:50
Speaker 5: things that happened to us.
46:51
Speaker 3: And the idea is, again, like you said, gain the
46:54
Speaker 3: perspective that we're not bypassing things that are quote unquote
46:59
Speaker 3: bad or on, but it doesn't stop us from moving
47:03
Speaker 3: past and moving forward, even though those things may have
47:07
Speaker 3: happened or still present, or you're worried about it happening
47:10
Speaker 3: in the future.
47:11
Speaker 5: The idea is that.
47:12
Speaker 3: You're not paralyzed by that knowledge and the rumination and
47:15
Speaker 3: the worry, and instead you're actually finding ways to move
47:20
Speaker 3: through them with more ease and more grace than if
47:23
Speaker 3: you were just you know, just fully in those emotions
47:27
Speaker 3: all the time, like you can acknowledge them, but you
47:30
Speaker 3: don't have to stay stuck in them so that they'd
47:33
Speaker 3: debilitate you further. So I really love all the points
47:38
Speaker 3: that you've shared. Everything that you've shared in this episode
47:42
Speaker 3: is a great set of starting toolkits that people can
47:45
Speaker 3: go ahead and start implementing, and they can get in
47:48
Speaker 3: touch and learn more.