Latest / Gunther Fehlinger Podcast / Cemil Kerimoglu - Ex-Russia: The Controversial Blueprint for Europe’s Security by Gunther Fehlinger

Transcript

Cemil Kerimoglu - Ex-Russia: The Controversial Blueprint for Europe’s Security by Gunther Fehlinger · Gunther Fehlinger Podcast

0:02
I'm so happy to welcome at Gunter Failing, a podcast Paksa
0:06
Roppiana. We discuss now about peace in
0:08
Europe and about how to achieve peace and how to keep peace.
0:12
And I'm very happy that one of the rising Substax stars of the
0:17
whole movement is now here. I see, Jamil, you are very
0:20
famous on Substax and you publish almost daily some
0:23
interesting article and you contacted me and you wanted to
0:27
discuss and you are now invited at the podcast.
0:30
Jamil, please introduce, introduce yourself to our
0:32
audience. And I'm very much looking
0:34
forward for the debate. Yeah, hello, hello everyone,
0:40
the, the, the dear viewers. So yes, well, as also already
0:46
mentioned, I'm very active on such, but also on other social
0:52
media channels, also on Telegram, on on Twitter X and on
0:55
Facebook. So well, my well and I write
1:01
especially about Russia, about Ukraine, about Eastern Europe.
1:07
So basically in order to garner support for Ukraine and also
1:12
specifically to enlighten, well, the Western audience about the
1:17
reality of Russia, about what Russia really is.
1:20
Because still, even among stone Ukraine supporters, still there
1:25
is still, it's still, it's still lacking.
1:30
They are still lacking a complete understanding of what
1:32
Russia represents actually. Well, what kind of evil Russia
1:37
represents so well, my background is actually in
1:41
molecular biology and genetics. So I'm, I, I'm originally from
1:45
Azerbaijan. I was born in Azerbaijan.
1:48
That's why also. Well, I speak Russian fluently,
1:51
so that's why also I understand. I know Russia very well.
1:57
And. But, but then I grew up in, when
1:59
I was small. Yeah.
2:00
With my parents, we moved to Turkey.
2:01
So I, I grew up in Turkey and then so and there I studied
2:06
molecular biology and genetics in Ankara.
2:09
And then for my PHDI moved to Germany and I did my PhD in
2:16
neuroscience in Germany. And then after that I, I stayed
2:20
in Germany. At first I stayed in academia
2:22
for quite some time as a senior research scientist.
2:27
Currently I work in, in the industry and now also especially
2:35
after Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine on the 24th
2:41
of February 2020. No, of course, well the, the
2:44
also we have to make this clear. The war started in 2014, so we
2:49
are speaking about now the full scale invasion.
2:52
And well, after that I decided to devote myself more to writing
2:57
because actually I've always liked writing.
3:00
And also I've always been interested in history and
3:02
especially in the history of, well, general European history,
3:06
but especially history of Russia, history of Eastern
3:10
Europe. And I decided to become more
3:14
active, more vocal, because I realized that there is still a
3:20
gap. There's a huge gap in the, in
3:23
the understanding of what Russia represents.
3:25
And of course, we will discuss, we'll talk about all this later
3:30
in more detail. So I realized that there's a
3:32
huge gap, there's a lapse. There is a huge lapse in, in
3:36
the, in understanding in the West of what Russia really is,
3:41
of what Russia really represents.
3:43
And it's real the deeper motives for invading Ukraine.
3:47
So that's why I started my sub stack and also became more
3:51
active. And you're really a kind of sub
3:54
stack star. Just looked at you have 650 sub
3:58
stack followers. That's a lot on sub stack.
4:00
Well, it's now close to 700 actually.
4:02
But yeah, it's OK. It wasn't good.
4:05
Your background from Azerbaijan, you were also the victim of
4:09
Russian imperialism and you learned Russian, so you know
4:13
Russian and you understand very well the Russian world.
4:16
Yes, yes, of course, but also now all a person.
4:21
I, I should say that OK, I, I have to admit this personally, I
4:25
haven't really been the victim of Russian imperialism and not
4:29
me personally, I'm OK, not my family, but my support for
4:33
Ukraine is based not on my personal experience.
4:36
I mean, of course Azerbaijan itself, of course it was a
4:38
victim of Russian imperialism as well in. 1920.
4:41
My support is based on. Trotsky famously said that the
4:44
voice decided in Baku and he wanted to have Baku because not
4:49
because the Azerbaijanis are so nice people and hospitable
4:52
people, which I'm sure you are, but you wanted the oil in the
4:55
Caspian Sea. That's yes, but also now,
4:58
currently, I mean, also from the very start, even starting from
5:01
1014, I was supportive of Ukraine because I, I know Russia
5:05
very well. So my support for Ukraine is
5:07
based exclusively on objective facts, on rational
5:11
considerations, on objective facts, on knowledge of realities
5:15
or knowledge of Russian realities or knowledge of the
5:18
true depths of the Russian soul and.
5:22
UN academic, A young academic who knows Azerbaijan, you know
5:26
Turkey, you know Germany and you know Russia.
5:30
Yes, yes. And since 2014, now 10 years, 11
5:34
years, you have devoted your life to make Russia understood
5:39
and the evil intentions of Russia understood in the West.
5:43
Yes, about, especially since 2022 especially.
5:46
So that was a wake up. That was really a flicker.
5:49
That was a. Moment where you really
5:51
activated yourself and you put yourself full into the digital
5:54
fight against Russia. Yes, yes.
5:58
Do you see Russia is your enemy? Yes, of course.
6:01
Well, I mean, it's the enemy of Europe.
6:03
And I consider myself, although OK, I, I was born in Azerbaijan,
6:07
grew up in Turkey, but still I consider myself European.
6:11
So the interests of Europe, the interests of Western
6:15
civilization are, are dear to me.
6:18
So Western civilization is general, is where is dear to me
6:21
and Russia is the greatest in the mess and the messes is the
6:25
greatest enemy of the West currently.
6:27
That's why Russia is also my enemy, like of the whole
6:30
civilised world, of the whole Western civilisation.
6:33
Jamil, tell me, is Ukraine part of the European civilisation?
6:38
Yes, of course, of course. Is Russia part of the European
6:42
civilisation? No, no, not at all.
6:45
Is Russia like an anti Europe? Yes, Russia is anti Europe.
6:51
So there will be no peaceful, harmonious, harmonious
6:55
cooperation between Russia and Europe after the war.
7:01
There won't be. In fact, there cannot be any
7:04
harmonious cooperation, there cannot be any peaceful
7:06
coexistence with Russia as long as Russia exists in its current
7:11
unitary imperial form. Well, there can be coexistence,
7:16
harmonious coexistence with that whole northern Eurasia space,
7:20
northern Eurasian expanse. If that space is disintegrated
7:24
into dozens of different states that are basically that disavow
7:32
their Russian past, quote, UN quote Russian past and which are
7:36
built upon. I mean, they're actually,
7:38
they're inherent regional and national identities.
7:43
So with that kind of and of course, which those states have
7:46
to renounce their nuclear weapons that they need to
7:49
demilitarize. And yeah, so with that space,
7:52
with that Russian space, but consisting of dozens of
7:56
independent states with their own regional and national
7:59
identities, identities, there can be actually and there will
8:04
be a peaceful coexistence collaboration.
8:08
But with Russia in its current unitary imperial state, the
8:13
there cannot be because actually the self perception of Russians,
8:19
not only the leadership. So that's also important to
8:23
grasp. It's not only the Russian
8:25
leadership, it's the Russian society.
8:27
I mean, their self perception has always been being anti
8:31
Europe, being against Europe and their actually reason of
8:36
existence in a sense what animates them is harming and
8:41
destroying Western civilization. It's harming Europe.
8:44
So that's why I mean, under such circumstances, under such a
8:47
constellation, when one side wants to harm you, wants to
8:52
destroy you, of course there cannot be any peaceful
8:54
coexistence regardless of the outcome of the war, regardless
8:57
of the regardless of where the boundaries are drawn.
9:00
So yeah. So let me ask you, and currently
9:04
there's a lot of hope internationally for the peace
9:07
talks in Florida and in Moscow. What do you think?
9:10
Is it realistic to expect peace with Russia now?
9:14
I mean, of course not. These are all, I mean, I'll say
9:17
these are all empty words. And actually these are attempts
9:20
by Russia to, to manipulate, well, U.S. government and drive
9:25
a wedge within the West between, between Europe and the US.
9:31
So these are all attempts similar to postpone more, I'll
9:37
say, more decisive sanctions, more, more more decisive action.
9:41
Obviously there cannot be any peace deal, as I said, due to
9:46
the fact that Russians see Europeans, Russians see Western
9:50
civilization as their archnemesis.
9:52
Actually, well, they are animated by apocalyptic hatred
9:57
against the West. Even if the war stops now some,
10:00
you know, even if it, it won't be peace.
10:03
So if there's a ceasefire or some line drawn, whatever, some
10:09
dividing line, this would mean simply the postponement of the
10:13
next stage of the war. So so this will.
10:17
Continue in one form or the other, the war will continue.
10:20
Until which moment? Where's the breaking point of
10:23
Russia? Until, yes.
10:25
So until Russia is is, until Russia collapses, until Russia
10:30
is disintegrated into dozens of states which renounce their
10:36
Russian past and which are built based on their national and
10:41
regional identities. And it's actually now the
10:45
manifest destiny of Europe, of a united Europe, to administer, to
10:51
control that vast Eurasian expanse, at least everything
10:55
that lies West of Urals, at least all the territory that
10:59
lies West of Ural Mountains. Actually, that's the manifest
11:05
destiny of Europe, of European civilization to administer that
11:09
space. So until that moment arrives,
11:11
until Russia collapses, the war will continue or well, the
11:15
negative outcome, then it will be the negative outcome for for
11:19
Europe until, until Russia subsumes Ukraine and the whole
11:23
Europe. Then of course the war will also
11:25
and until Europe is destroyed. So it's basically the current
11:30
confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, and by extension
11:33
between Russia and the West. It's a 0 sum game, so one of
11:38
them has to be destroyed in order for this confrontation to
11:41
end. There is really no other way.
11:44
And of course, it's our mission. It's the mission of, I mean,
11:47
first of all, it's Ukrainian soldiers, it's the Ukrainian
11:50
society who are the bulwark against this invasion.
11:55
They are the greatest defenders of the West.
11:57
But it's now the mission of each and every one of us to ensure
12:02
that the the the site that is destroyed, not Europe, but
12:07
Russia. You know, I'm a bit famous on X
12:11
for this hashtag X Russia. And I'm also involved in the
12:15
form of the Post Russian forum. And there we have designed a map
12:19
in 2022 after the full scale invasion of having 41 states
12:24
emerging out of X Russia. What do you think about this
12:27
famous map? What do you think about 41
12:30
states? And don't you think hundreds of
12:32
states might be a bit too much? 41 is the optimum size for the
12:36
post Russian space. Well, actually now I, I wouldn't
12:39
really speculate on the exact number.
12:41
I mean that that doesn't really matter at the end of the day.
12:45
I mean, the exact number, it can be 41 and I don't know, it can
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be 30, it can be 35, it can be 50, as long as that space
12:56
disintegrates into their own regional national identities.
13:00
So that would mean the end of the idea of Russia, the end of
13:04
the idea of Russianness. And then and only after then
13:09
that whole space can be reincorporated into the family
13:13
of nations. So actually, even you know,
13:15
which is interesting, even Putin himself, I mean, I don't know,
13:19
it was a some, some blip or something in one of his
13:24
interviews several years ago. I mean, of course he would he
13:28
put a negative sign on it. He didn't speak of it in a
13:30
positive way. He spoke of this in a negative
13:32
way, but it said the exact same thing.
13:34
He said that the West, I mean, he claimed that the West wants
13:40
to disintegrate Russia, which is actually not true.
13:42
The West wants to conserve Russia in its current form.
13:45
But but it. Disintegrate Russia?
13:48
Yes, I want to ask Russia and they put me on the television.
13:51
Yeah, but but no. But what Putin claimed is that
13:56
he claimed that the West will not accept Russians.
14:01
I mean, it's not the exact words, but what he meant.
14:04
The West will not accept Russians into the family of
14:07
nations, but it will make sure to accept Siberians, Urallians,
14:13
I don't know, Muscovites into the family of nations.
14:17
Actually, that those were his words.
14:18
I mean, in a sense the, the, not the exact quote, but that's what
14:23
he meant. And in fact, that should be the
14:26
goal. Well, that, that should be the
14:27
strategy of Europe. That should be the strategy of
14:30
the West to to make it clear to, to communicate well to the
14:34
citizens of the Russian Federation, to the inhabitants
14:36
of the Russian Federation or its citizens abroad, that they will
14:40
they, they will never be accepted into the family of
14:43
nations as Russians, but they will be welcomed into the family
14:47
of nations as Oralians, Siberians, Ingridians,
14:50
Novgorodians, Bash Courts, Tatars, Chechens, Yakuts and so
14:56
on. So yeah.
15:00
Tell me about the do you have any specific plan for how many
15:04
new countries? You say that doesn't matter so
15:06
much, but for the peaceful dissolution of Russia it is
15:10
helpful to show the world a very specific number.
15:14
Are you already involved in the free form of the free nations of
15:18
Post Russia? Well, yes, of course, I also
15:22
participated in, in many of those forums together with you.
15:26
Yeah, we, we also met that, that's how we met also for our
15:31
listeners, for our observers to tell, to tell that story.
15:35
We we met actually at the forums of.
15:37
And which forums you were participating?
15:40
Oh, well, in, in a lot of them actually and in some of them
15:44
online or on some of them, I mean, OK, the latest one in
15:47
Romania, I was, I was this year, last year in Lithuania.
15:54
OK, several, right. The first one was in the
15:56
European Parliament. Tell me a little bit about the
16:00
more experience of this forums. Was it interesting to meet
16:04
leaders of the future independent states of Russia?
16:07
Yes, actually it was very interesting and enlightening.
16:10
In fact, even I wasn't aware that I mean, OK, I knew that
16:14
yes, there are different identities within Russia.
16:16
I knew that Russia is an imperial colonial power, power,
16:20
Of course, just the outlines. I had this basic knowledge, but
16:26
meeting the people, for example, activists from Pakistan, Ingria,
16:32
from Tatarstan, from Yakutia, and many other regions I'm in
16:37
now, I, I can't count all of them.
16:39
So, so basically there are a lot of them.
16:41
So that was actually quite enlightening and enlightening
16:45
for me. I learned a lot from them.
16:47
I learned that, well, actually, yes, there are such identities
16:50
which have been suppressed well, which have been brutally
16:53
suppressed, which have been artificially suppressed.
16:55
But beneath the surface, something is brewing.
17:01
So, so within Russia, within different regions of Russia,
17:05
something is growing within the surface.
17:07
Just it needs a flicker, it needs some stimulus.
17:11
So that was. Let's talk concretely because
17:14
you come from Azerbaijan and there's free Caucasus nation,
17:19
Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, they were part of the Soviet
17:22
Union. Now they are free and
17:24
independent countries. Actually Armenia is actually
17:27
moving quite a lot towards the West recently and they have more
17:32
or less leftist and CSTO, the Strategic Treaty Organization,
17:37
the Russian and the NATO. But at least they were not
17:40
attending in Kyrgyzstan at the meeting now.
17:43
And Georgia is very much a pro western country with a
17:46
complicated government Now. What about Azerbaijan?
17:49
At the moment, Azerbaijan is also energy partner of US, but
17:55
it's a complicated country still.
17:57
Do you think Azerbaijan is interested in closer ties to the
18:00
Western world and to the free world?
18:03
I mean, The thing is, well, Azerbaijan is actually sitting
18:06
on the fence. Well, I wouldn't say Azerbaijan
18:10
like also like a country like Azerbaijan or a country like
18:13
Turkey. They will simply join the
18:15
winner, so they won't really decide.
18:19
It's not like they are specifically gravitating towards
18:22
Russia or specifically gravitating towards the West.
18:24
They will simply choose the winner.
18:26
Whoever emerges as the winner, they will gravitate towards
18:29
towards them. So they won't.
18:31
So they won't play any decisive role.
18:32
They will come afterwards. Once Europe prevails then they
18:37
will become pro European because they won't have any other
18:39
choice. But I mean, if yeah, well, if
18:42
God forbid Russia prevails, then now they will become pro
18:47
Russian. So that's how it will work out
18:51
and. Tell me, because we are winning,
18:55
so don't worry about it. And we will also have
18:58
Azerbaijan. North of Azerbaijan there's a
19:00
country called Dagestan, it's a Republic of Russia.
19:03
Do you think Dagestan will be a nice neighbor for Azerbaijan?
19:09
Yes. Well, I mean, once they get,
19:10
they achieve their independence because, I mean, really Dagestan
19:13
is also, it's already like really it's a separate region.
19:18
Even many Russians, you know, there are even some Russian
19:20
jokes that they don't recognize. They are not, they don't even
19:23
realize that Dagestan actually is part of Russian Federation.
19:27
So. And of course, once they get
19:30
their independence, yeah, of course.
19:32
I mean, Azerbaijan shares a lot of, I mean, it's not the
19:35
language ties, but ethnic ties. All Caucasus nations can be good
19:42
news. No, you.
19:42
Believe in the Republic of Pakistan to be a good friend in
19:47
the free world. A similar country like
19:49
Azerbaijan. Yes, yes, why not?
19:52
I mean, yes, of course, of course.
19:54
What about Chechnya? Do you think what?
19:58
Independence of Chechnya. Yes, of course.
20:01
And also I can tell you, I mean in the 90s.
20:03
I mean, OK, I, I was small, I was a child, but still I
20:08
actually, well, I was aware of what's going on in the world.
20:12
So I was aware of the first Chechen war and the second
20:17
Chechen war. And already back then, I mean,
20:21
we had an understanding that Chechens, I mean, Chechen people
20:27
are a heroic people. So actually I grew up with
20:31
veneration, with strong sympathies for the Chechen
20:35
people, for Dzhokhar Dudaev. I mean, he's a hero.
20:39
He's a great hero of the Chechen people, but also not only of the
20:42
Chechen people, actually in the history of the humankind.
20:46
So he should be regarded as a great hero.
20:49
And Chechen people are a heroic people.
20:51
But unfortunately, I mean, yeah, well, they were brutally
20:54
suppressed after two genocidal Chechen wars that Russia
20:59
unleashed upon them again in the same way that they are doing now
21:03
train and they have done throughout history from time,
21:07
since time immemorial, carpet bombing of cities, mass
21:11
tortures, mass rapes, I mean, mass killings and so on.
21:14
Now. I mean, they were brutally
21:15
subdued. I mean, currently, yeah, they
21:19
are under the Khadrovite regime. They basically, which is the
21:23
Russian vessel regime. But once they get their
21:26
independence and at the time in the 90s, I mean after the first
21:32
Chechen war, I mean after Russia retreated from the first, after
21:35
the first Chechen war, the Republic of each, each carrier
21:39
was on the on the path of actually of development.
21:44
It, it was developed. I mean, given enough time,
21:47
Chechen Republic of each carrier would have developed into I
21:50
mean, maybe OK, not a Western society, but still the the
21:53
democratic liberal. I mean a society, a country with
21:57
strong enough democratic institutions, with strong enough
22:03
civil society, given enough time, it would have developed.
22:06
But now that natural development was cut off by Russia was
22:11
brutally cut off. But again, it doesn't mean that
22:14
it can be. It doesn't mean that it can be
22:17
reinvigorated again. So once again, Chechnya,
22:20
Chechnya, Republic of each Korea, like other regions get
22:24
their independence. I mean, I'm confident that
22:27
Chechen Republic of each Korea will be a friend.
22:30
I mean it maybe it won't be a Western country because they
22:32
have a different culture after all, but it will be a friend of
22:36
the West. And what's your estimation for
22:39
the Republic of Ingushetia? Actually, it would be.
22:44
It's the same as the Republic of each Korea.
22:47
All those nations in the Caucasus they can really
22:52
cooperate with, they have the potential and they will
22:56
cooperate with each other very well if there is no Russian
22:59
involvement, and in fact there is.
23:02
There is already a precedent for this after the, I mean after the
23:06
Bolshevik Revolution, I mean at the end of the First World War,
23:09
Russian Empire was collapsing and many different regions they
23:13
declared their independence. And I mean the ones who are who
23:16
know Russian history, they know that there was also among many
23:20
other countries, there was mountainous, mountainous
23:24
Republic of Trans Caucasus, which also declared its
23:28
independence. And it consisted of different
23:30
ethnicities of the, of Northern Caucasus.
23:34
So already, I mean it, it was Chechens in Ghurst and, and
23:37
several others. So, so already there's a
23:40
precedent of those different peoples of Northern Caucasus
23:44
gathering together for the common aim, for the common goal
23:48
and the the trying to cooperate, trying to collaborate.
23:52
So they declared their independence as as the
23:55
Mountainous Republic, which already means that deep inside
24:01
and also they have this historical heritage.
24:03
They want to cooperate with each other, they want to collaborate
24:06
with each other. They see each other as good
24:07
neighbors, they see each other as good friends.
24:10
Without Russian involvement, they would have left, they would
24:14
have lived, and in the future they will live peacefully in
24:19
prosperity. Let me ask you as well about the
24:25
Republic of Ositia. Do you think it will be
24:31
independent and live? I mean that I now you know.
24:38
North Ossetia. Yeah, N Ossetia, yes, I mean, of
24:43
course they are also a separate ethnic group.
24:46
They are also a separate people. They are very, they are a
24:48
distinct people. They have, yes, they should.
24:52
Also they can declare their independence.
24:56
They can become independent. But for for the Northern
24:59
Caucasus, I mean, there might be several scenarios now, we can't
25:03
guess the future, but one framework under which it all can
25:08
work is actually this mountainous Republic of Trans
25:12
Caucasus that emerged after the First World War.
25:16
It was after the First World War where this.
25:18
Yes, exactly. So it doesn't have to be, it
25:21
doesn't have to be each of the IT doesn't.
25:23
It doesn't necessarily have to be separate Chechen Republic,
25:26
separate separate English Republic, or separate Northern
25:30
North City Republic. All of them can also coexist
25:35
within a multilingual multi ethnic state of the Trans
25:40
Caucasus as it was planned after the First World War.
25:44
So that can also be a workable framework for them.
25:49
And for the people from Jackassia, Jackassia has several
25:54
different names, but Jackassia is the biggest and most famous
25:57
nation of the Northern Caucasus and historically they were
26:01
genocided by the Russians and the first international infamous
26:05
Jackassian genocide during the conquest of Russia of the Church
26:10
of the Northern Caucasus. I think it was in during
26:13
parallel to the American Civil War somewhere in the 1860s, and
26:18
this was a tragedy. And there was this British
26:21
captain in his ship and he called for help and the British
26:25
Empire didn't care because it was far away.
26:28
And the Czech essence were genocided brutally by the
26:31
Russian imperialist. Do you think that Czechessia has
26:34
deserved freedom and that freedom for Czechessia will
26:37
come? Yes, and of course.
26:38
I mean, they certainly deserve their freedom.
26:41
Yes, and especially, well, there are people with very traumatic
26:47
and the very sad history and they are the victims, yeah, of
26:53
Russian imperialism actually into the most brutal way, the
26:58
most brutal, one of the one of the most brutal manifestations
27:01
of Russian imperialism. Of course, to their suffering,
27:05
obviously they also deserve their statehood, their freedom.
27:10
And again, once it all hinges on the current confrontation
27:14
between Ukraine and Russia, and by extension between Europe and
27:18
Russia. Once Europe prevails, once
27:21
Ukraine together with Europe prevail, all those nations of
27:25
the Caucasus will receive their independence.
27:28
And yeah, the they will be much better.
27:31
It won't be easy at first, but they will certainly be much
27:34
better off than they are now under Russian rule.
27:38
Because many people of this Norfolk Caucasus republics have
27:41
to fight as military conscript soldiers in the Russian army
27:44
against Ukraine, and I'm sure they don't want that.
27:48
I mean, yes, because, well, you see, that's the thing.
27:54
It's very easy. It takes only one generation to
27:58
brainwash children into, you know, to redirect the energy of
28:06
the population. So I can I mean, I can tell you
28:09
actually, well, IA good example from history.
28:13
Well, actually from Turkish Ottoman history, about which I
28:16
also write and I with which I make parallels.
28:19
I make the parallel with janissaries in the Ottoman
28:23
Empire. I mean, janissaries were
28:24
basically they were children, teenagers from the Balkans.
28:33
I mean the Serbs, Greeks, Albanians and others who were
28:38
kidnapped by the Ottoman Raiders and then they were brought to
28:44
Istanbul, to Constantinople. They were either made
28:48
janissaries, the soldiers who were, who became the nightmare
28:52
of European armies, or they became the bureaucrats who were
28:55
sustaining the the Ottoman state.
28:59
So the, the tragedy was that the talents of those of those
29:04
European children, of those European teenagers from the
29:09
Balkans, they, they served not their own nations, not their own
29:15
peoples, not their own brethren in the Balkans, but they were
29:18
redirected into serving a state, in this case the Ottoman Empire,
29:23
which wanted to subjugate those very same peoples.
29:27
And the same was actually with Ukrainians and other Europeans
29:31
who are under Russian rule. Russia also utilised, I mean
29:36
from the 17th century onwards, Ukraine was subjugated by
29:41
Russia. Ukraine was ruled by Russia and
29:44
Ukrainian, I mean Ukrainians, their energy, their talents,
29:50
both in the 17th century and then also again later in the
29:54
20th century, they were used actually to sustain, they were
30:00
used as the fuel of, of imperial Russia to sustain the Russia's,
30:06
I mean Russia's imperial project.
30:08
And in the same way also then for example, the Chechens, the
30:15
Chechen people, heroic Chechen people.
30:16
So they fought bravely, heroically against Russia in
30:20
two, two wars, but then they were brutally subjugated.
30:24
And then it took one generation to brainwash the children to, to
30:29
turn Chechen peoples from heroic fighters for freedom into, well,
30:34
you know, hench men of into cadero white hench men.
30:38
So that's the tragedy. It's the same people, I mean,
30:42
with the same energy, with the same passionarity, with the same
30:44
talents. But they're because they were
30:47
brutally subjugated, subdued by Russia, Their talents were
30:52
redirected into doing Russia's bidding.
30:56
So once. That's a tragedy because also
30:59
General Shalusney, the Ukrainian ambassador in the UK, has
31:04
recently made an article where he stated that if Ukraine falls,
31:09
all the Ukrainian human resources builder redirected and
31:13
will be conscripted into the Russian army and will be a
31:17
permanent threat against Europe again.
31:20
And that would be a tragedy. So it's not just a loss of
31:23
Europe, but also the resources in terms of land, minerals and
31:27
of course people, which then Russia has available to threaten
31:32
and potentially attack Europe. So Ukraine may not fall in the
31:37
hands of the Russians. We must defend Ukraine with all
31:41
our forces. So it's all about the human.
31:44
Actually, one of the reasons, one of the deeper reasons why
31:46
Russia actually wants to subjugate Ukraine is the human
31:48
capital is Ukraine's human capital.
31:51
You know, you can redirect that. You can mold that human capital,
31:56
especially it's a human at earlier years, at early
31:59
formative years, you can really mold a child into whatever you
32:03
like. The child can be talented.
32:05
The teenager can be talented, but he can be made with with
32:08
proper direction they can be made into.
32:12
The reason why Russia is stealing and kidnapping so many
32:16
children because they steal them from the Ukrainian families and
32:19
occupied lands and they bring them to Russian families and
32:23
institutions and train them to be good Russian soldiers.
32:27
Yeah, precisely. Actually, I draw this parallel
32:29
in my article and also in my posts.
32:33
Precisely what Ottoman Turks were doing in the Balkans is the
32:36
same thing. So Russians want to make
32:38
Janissaries out of Ukrainians. They want to make them
32:42
Janissaries of the Russian world.
32:44
And they will be. And likewise, like the
32:47
Janissaries in the Ottoman Empire, they became the
32:50
nightmare of Europe, of European armies.
32:52
So if Ukraine falls, the new generation of Ukrainians which
32:57
will be brainwashed into the Russian world, they will become
33:00
the nightmare of European armies.
33:03
Well, likewise in the same way. So that's why we cannot allow
33:08
Ukraine to fall also due to the human capital that Ukraine
33:12
possesses. Let's talk a bit about Turkey,
33:15
because I think you know Turkey as well very well.
33:18
Yes, yes. Why is Erdogan not closing the
33:21
Turkish Straits for Russian shipping?
33:24
Well, because also again, I mean Turkey.
33:28
I mean also Turkey has always been an outlier within NATO.
33:35
I mean, also in my articles, in a series of articles, I also
33:39
make this parallel comparison in a sense.
33:42
I mean, Turkey is mini Russia. I use the term.
33:47
So basically Turkey, also the Turkish society, the way they
33:51
view themselves, the way they view their relationship, their
33:56
relations with the world and with the West.
33:58
Actually it's quite similar to Russia, just I mean, Turkish
34:02
society, because Ottoman Empire has been losing a lot of wars
34:06
for 200 years. They were continuously beaten.
34:10
So Turkey has lost that energy, that expansionary energy, which
34:14
Russia hasn't yet lost. But still the still Turkey, I
34:19
mean Turkish society, in essence, it remains a rather
34:23
anti Western society that that's why 1 cannot expect the Turkish
34:27
government to be strongly for Ukraine or to be strongly pro
34:32
Russian. So the Turkey is behaving in its
34:34
natural way. So of course, I mean, yeah, it
34:37
doesn't want to solve relations with Europe because still I
34:40
mean, it needs Europe, it needs cooperation with Europe.
34:44
But at the same time it doesn't like Europe either.
34:48
But also it is supportive of Russia.
34:52
It is. It sympathizes with Russia
34:54
because Russia is seen as the enemy of Europe.
34:57
Well I mean which is true. That's why 1 cannot expect
35:00
Turkey to to have a firms to have a firm anti Russian stance
35:06
again. They will also vacillate.
35:08
They will gravitate towards anyone who prevails.
35:11
If Europe definitively prevails, Turkey will also become more pro
35:16
European because they won't have any other choice.
35:18
If Russia prevails they will they will become even more pro
35:21
Russian. Turkey, it was now protesting
35:26
because there has two major things happening.
35:28
Ukraine has basically won the battle for the Black Sea and has
35:32
stressed drastically reduced the access to the Black Sea for the
35:36
Russian Navy, destroyed a lot of ships.
35:39
And also Ukraine recently has destroyed a lot of the military
35:43
and defence and energy infrastructure on Crimea.
35:47
But also in the famous novel Resist seaport of Russia, one of
35:52
the biggest ones which stays. And then I think the last night
35:56
there were heavy hits on Novel Resist and then suddenly Turkey
36:00
was protesting for a peaceful way in the Black Sea.
36:05
What exactly? How we can understand that what
36:07
was happening here? Yeah, that's typical.
36:10
I mean, yeah, I'll say I wasn't even surprised.
36:13
I mean, yeah, of course, because Turkey first and foremost, I
36:18
mean, it doesn't follow. I mean, any moral guidance.
36:22
I know they simply want their own Peace of Mind.
36:30
They they simply want commerce to proceed, whatever happens by
36:34
whatever means. That's why even if what Ukraine
36:38
do, what Ukraine is doing is morally justified, is absolutely
36:41
morally justified, but it might harm some of the trade on the
36:48
Black Sea that Turkey is benefiting from.
36:50
That's why Turkey should some not of protest apparently.
36:55
But again, I mean, I don't if Ukraine perseveres, I don't
37:00
think Turkey will push harder. So, OK, they express their
37:05
protest because they don't like that now that the Black Sea
37:08
trade is being compromised because it harms Turkish
37:10
economy, because they think only about their economy.
37:13
They, they don't, they don't feel this confrontation immoral,
37:18
immoral in in universalist terms.
37:21
And that's why they should be. So happy if Turkey is closing
37:24
the Turkish Straits for Russia and if Ukraine destroys all the
37:28
ships of Russia in the Black Sea and if all the infrastructure of
37:33
this dirty carbon is destroyed, that would be make me so very
37:37
happy. But actually, you know.
37:39
We need to have German weapons because you live in Germany and
37:44
you're very active person on the social media and in the public
37:47
debate. Why is the German towers not in
37:51
Ukraine? Crane's hand to strike this evil
37:53
bridge of Crimea and understand to liberate Crimea in the year
37:58
2026. Now in the winter, it would be
38:01
perfect timing to send all these towels to Ukraine and then to
38:05
liberate Crimea and to have a very, very good summer of
38:10
freedom 2026. Why is Friedrich Merz, the
38:13
chancellor we all expect so much, so somehow reluctant to
38:18
act? Well, actually, you know, I
38:21
wouldn't. Also in this case I wouldn't put
38:24
the blame squarely on Germany. It's the whole western issue.
38:27
It's the whole European and Western issue.
38:29
And in general, I mean Germany, like the rest of Europe, they
38:33
are still in the followers seat, They are not in the driver's
38:35
seat. So they expect USA to lead.
38:41
If US provides Tomahawks, for example, then Germany would
38:45
gladly provide towers. But since everyone expects US to
38:49
make the first step, everyone in Europe expects US to lead.
38:54
Which is now, I mean actually not realistic.
38:57
They should get rid of these delusions, but it takes time.
39:01
It takes time to reorganize your your your mind, to reshuffle
39:07
your thoughts. So basically Germany, like the
39:10
rest of Europe is still is the prisoner of its own inertia.
39:16
That's why still we haven't provided the the the towers to
39:21
Ukraine that that's why it's still Ukraine doesn't have
39:24
enough long range weapons. It's all part of inertia.
39:29
But I mean, of course this will go away with time in the end.
39:32
I mean, eventually Ukraine will get towers.
39:35
But unfortunately it takes so much time.
39:39
It takes painstakingly a lot, you know, to convince, to
39:44
convince and again to convince. And yeah, in the end, Ukraine
39:49
will get towers and also many other long range missiles and
39:53
also, well, another thing, OK, well, actually, well, now in
39:57
defence of Germany, I would also say, OK, Germany didn't provide
40:00
yet. I mean, Frederick Meyer's
40:01
government didn't provide towers itself, but still they are
40:05
financing Ukraine's arms industry.
40:09
So, so Germany is financing Ukraine's domestic industry,
40:13
including long range missile industry.
40:15
So which is? Also for next year, Germany has
40:18
devoted €11.5 billion to Ukraine.
40:22
Do you think that's a lot of money and that's enough?
40:25
I mean, yes, I think that's a good enough.
40:28
I mean, I mean, well, I would say Germany in fact.
40:34
I mean, you know, even financing Ukraine's own arms production,
40:39
financing Ukraine's own missile capabilities and military
40:44
industrial context. Actually, long term it's even a
40:47
better a solution than providing missiles themselves.
40:51
You know, there's a saying it's better to teach someone how to
40:56
fish instead of giving the fish. So in this sense, in the long
41:00
term, we all want the Ukraine to become self-sufficient
41:06
militarily, a highly militarized state, strong, strong
41:11
militarized state, which will be the ballpark, which, which will
41:15
be the guardian of Western civilization.
41:17
But for that, of course, Ukraine needs Europe's financial help to
41:22
develop its own military industrial, to develop its own
41:26
weapons, to develop its own military industrial context.
41:30
And they have the talent. I mean, Ukraine even also during
41:34
Soviet times, I mean Soviet military industrial complex
41:37
rested on the shoulders of Ukrainian scientists and
41:39
engineers. It's thanks to Ukrainian
41:42
scientists and engineers. Actually, Soviet Union was a
41:47
military superpower. All the majority of the military
41:52
industry was concentrated in Ukraine.
41:54
It was the work of Ukrainian engineers, Ukrainian scientists.
41:58
So they have this tradition, they have all this talent.
42:00
They just need our support. They just, they need more
42:05
financing. And then in the end, they will
42:07
have their own powers. They will have their own long
42:11
range. Yes, yes, some of them.
42:14
So yeah. Tell me something because in the
42:17
German and Austrian media, a lot of these Ukraine experts and
42:20
journalists, they are now very negative and say Ukraine has no
42:25
money, no people, no power and Russia will win this war.
42:29
We better make some kind of concessionary peace and submit
42:33
to Russia. Give more lands and millions of
42:36
people into Russian slavery. But it's much better to be a
42:39
slave than to be dead. This is what chorus of left wing
42:44
and right wing commentators status in so-called experts are
42:48
saying. What do you think?
42:49
Have we lost the war? Is it really so bad or will
42:53
Ukraine win in 2026? And Ukraine will win and but of
42:57
course, I mean not only the first time for most Ukraine, but
43:00
Europe will win. But for this, I mean, Europe
43:04
really needs a not only politicians, not only policy
43:09
makers, but the society at large needs, needs a good deal of free
43:14
thinking. Europe needs to be animated by a
43:18
higher purpose. European societies need to be
43:21
animated by a higher purpose, animated by its manifest
43:26
destiny, which is the disintegration of Russia and
43:30
administering that whole vast Eurasian expanse, at least what
43:36
lies the West of worlds. So Europe first and foremost
43:39
must be animated by the spirit and it will come.
43:42
It will come. I mean slowly, I mean, but
43:45
eventually it will come. Now to all those, I mean,
43:48
commentators who make comments, OK, who say that, OK, Ukraine
43:52
must surrender. But I mean, it's the same people
43:54
who were saying the same things also four years ago and nothing
43:58
has changed in this regard. It's exactly the same people who
44:00
are similar, like repeating like a broken record.
44:05
They were saying it also in 2022.
44:07
They were saying the same things also now.
44:09
And I, I'm sure when Ukraine, when Ukrainian armies stand near
44:15
Moscow, those same commentators will say, will say the same
44:18
things again, that Ukraine for some reason has to surrender for
44:23
whatever reason. So I mean, those voices need to
44:26
be disregarded or at the I mean, they must be countered firmly
44:31
and strongly. And now also one suggestion, in
44:35
fact, maybe I will be the first one suggesting this.
44:39
Now The thing is why Russia can persist for so long ago, OK,
44:44
well, it has the human mass, it has larger population to throw
44:49
into a meat grinder. But now as Russia started to run
44:54
out of its own meat grinder of its own population, it's they
44:56
started to recruit N Koreans. They're also recruiting all over
45:00
the third world. They're they are recruiting.
45:03
In South Africa in. Eritrea in Agora, in Cuba, in
45:07
Africa, in India, in Nepal. Now, my suggestion is, I mean,
45:12
first of all, the most noble thing to do would be for Europe
45:15
to intervene, for European armies to intervene on Ukraine's
45:18
behalf, because it's not only Russians possible, yes.
45:21
But a second option, I mean, OK, if Europe thinks they are not
45:25
ready or if Europeans are not ready to fight, they can provide
45:28
financing to Ukraine so that Ukraine can recruit Africans and
45:33
others. Why can't Ukrainians recruit
45:37
Africans and other people? I mean also, in fact, it would
45:40
be a good, a great opportunity for for like again, Indians,
45:43
Africans or or others. First of all, they will be paid
45:47
good sums of money and being in the Ukrainian army is not the
45:50
same as being in the Russian army.
45:52
In the Ukrainian army, they will be treated well, they will be
45:55
treated like decent human beings.
45:56
So, so they won't be thrown into meat grinder.
45:59
Their survival rate will be much higher.
46:02
And as I said, the most important thing, they will
46:04
receive a high payment, which for their countries like you
46:07
know, they will live like kings. With that amount of money, it
46:10
will be a great a good amount of money and they will have high,
46:15
higher, much higher chances of survival than if they were in
46:18
the Russian army. So you are proposing that we
46:22
have more money from the European Union.
46:24
Do you support euro bonds for victory that the EU is taking on
46:28
new debt in order to fund victory and the integration of
46:32
Ukraine in NATO and the euro? And how much would that be?
46:36
I have proposed now in nuclear in form in the state media
46:40
portal. I've proposed to have a 1000
46:42
billion euro debt package, euro bonds paid by the European Union
46:47
over the next 20 years. To have enough money to get into
46:52
the fight, to win the fight and then to integrate Ukraine into
46:56
now to you and the euro and make sure we have also enough money
46:59
then data to help the ex Russian states in the future to develop
47:05
after they have broken away from the Moscow tyranny.
47:09
Do you think that's a good idea? Actually, yes, it's a great
47:12
idea. And anything, in fact any
47:16
financial incentive, we have to be ready for any financial
47:20
sacrifice. I mean, really, there is no
47:22
sacrifice not worth taking for Ukraine's victory, for it's not
47:28
only Ukraine's victory, it's Europe's victory.
47:30
Again, I need to emphasize it won't be on the Ukraine's
47:33
victory, it's all of ours victory.
47:36
I mean in a sense so. It's we can win together, OK, We
47:39
can lose together. Yes, we have a win together or
47:42
we are defeated together. If Russia wins in Ukraine,
47:46
Europe will be lost. Yes, yes, and everything good in
47:50
the world will be lost. Jamil, we will win.
47:54
Yes, I'm sure we are doing. Together with our friends from
47:57
Turkey, with our friends from Azerbaijan, and we will liberate
48:01
the people of the North Caucasus and of Western Russia and many
48:05
other people says well, who are hidden in this bunker, in this
48:08
prison of nation that is Russia Today.
48:11
Ex Russia is what Jamil here is saying and what I fully endorse.
48:16
Because we have to work together for the victory of European
48:19
civilisation against the disaster of the tyranny of
48:23
Russia under Putin. And there is also no hope for
48:26
Russian democracy or freedom in Russia.
48:29
It is only after the breakaway of so many new emerging states
48:34
where peace can be found in this European continent.
48:38
I want to thank you very much, Jamil.
48:40
That was very good talk. I invite you as well.
48:42
In 2026, we can continue our conversation and focus very much
48:47
on freedom of the North Caucasus new states, because 26 should be
48:51
the year where freedom comes like 1991.
48:55
And on the 1st of January 27, we hope already to see many new
49:00
states emerging after the victory of Ukraine and the
49:04
defeat of Russia. Freedom will come to the ex
49:07
Russian space. Yeah.
49:08
Thank you very much for the invitation.
49:10
It was great to be here. And yes, of course, we'll stay
49:13
in touch. And yes, I mean, we need to be
49:15
again, to conclude, I will say we need to be animated by the
49:19
spirit, by this vision of defeating Russia, reorganizing
49:24
that whole N Eurasian space, N Eurasian expanse.
49:27
And to conclude now, I will paraphrase also a famous saying
49:30
now we were we were born too late to explore the world, where
49:37
we were born too early to explore the stars, but we were
49:41
born just in time to destroy Russia.
49:45
The only solution is Russian dissolution.
49:48
Yes, and victory of Ukraine. Yes.
49:52
A very big Slava, Ukraine from my side, from Vienna, Iran,
49:55
Slava. I wish you victory and everybody
49:58
of us and we will win and Russia will be axed.
50:02
Yes. This was my podcast with Jamil,
50:05
a man who knows in the region, who knows Azerbaijan, Turkey,
50:09
Germany and who knows Russia, who supports Ukraine and is very
50:14
clearly sees the only way for victory is the victory of
50:18
Ukraine and the integration of Ukraine into you and NATO.
50:21
And of course, the dissolution of the Russian colonial empire
50:27
and many new states to come and to emerge more peacefully and to
50:31
be part of the free world. I want to thank you very much,
50:34
Tamil. All the best success to you and
50:37
your family and for Victory 2026.
50:40
Thank you very much. Thank you.
50:42
Bye bye. Very good.
50:44
I stop now.